graduate-applications

[subtle knoll]

They are a instrumental parts of application for most people nowadays, and that's also a source of recommendation letters.

Or just any research oppertunities from your home uni works too. The important part is to get your hands dirty.

[main marlin]

a tru

ill try those then thanks :>

[quartz pollen]

I'm not sure if this is appropriate here or not. I'm getting ready to start my college career in my late 20s (good circumstances have come my way and I can finally go to college).

I'm pursuing math and the goal since childhood was to one day do math research.

I'm not putting the cart before the horse. I'm old enough to know that a lot can change in 4 years, maybe I'll hate research math, and I'm infinitely more concerned with just doing well in my basic math courses.

But for someone in my position, are there any things I can potentially look into as I go through college to better my chances of getting into a graduate program? For right now, I'm just focused on getting good grades, taking harder courses, and building a good foundation.

I've heard many people say "I wish I didn't screw myself in undergrad" or something similar. So, any small things I can do to improve my chances for the future is great.

How important is it to complete your bachelor's at a university with a graduate pure maths department? I'm taking the pure maths route at my college. Do professor recommendations hold weight if they're not from the same field (e.g., applied maths or stats)?

And lastly, will I be facing an uphill battle when I'm in my early 30s applying to grad school? Do they typically not accept older applicants?

Thanks if anyone is able to get around to some of these. 🙂

[main marlin]

someone recommended reu to me to help with cs phd stuff

would prolly help you too for math academia

or at least to see if you like it

also contact a professor in the field youre interested in about possibly doing research

idk how it is in general but in my uni at least professors like it when undergrads are interested in their research and wanna try helping

other than that uh

cant really answer much else sorry

im also kinda new to this too

😔

[quartz pollen]

No worries! Thanks for the response 🙂 Yeah, I'm hoping that I can at least shadow or something in my 3rd/4th year, but ideally I can do some amount of research.

[stray seal]

Regarding the age question, I've been in such committees and I've never heard anybody mention someone's age as a factor. In fact, if they had, I think they would've gotten some weird looks from the other members. So I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter as far as the application is concerned.

[tough ice]

Hi, guys. I saw many unis website say they want to read about research experiences from statement of purpose. But what exactly are they looking for? e.g. A short introduction? How does the research experience contribute to career goals? Or any other things

[quartz pollen]

Glad to hear. Thanks for the reply. 🙂

[undone yacht]

This is true. My advisor started studying at 35 (he was a music teacher before) and is a full professor. I finished my Ph.D. at 41 and got the first TT job I applied to. Just do good work and scientific age is the only thing that maters (not true if you are like 60 when you start, but you get the point)

[quartz pollen]

This is good news, then. I wasn't too concerned since I would just read the graduate texts on my own time if I wasn't able to get into a program. But it's nice to hear that I'm not too old for graduate school 🙂

If anyone happens to know, are there things that specifically look good on graduate applications other than GPA and recommendations? Do you have to be lucky to be in a position to write a paper for a journal in undergrad (finding an advisor, finding research, etc.), or if you are determined enough, can you just guarantee it?

[low tundra]

guaranteed apps are a lie

there is never a guarantee

[quartz pollen]

Apps?

I mean the opportunity to work on research. For example, in graduate school, you're definitely guaranteed to work on research lol.

If I'm a willing undergrad, can I just say "hey, I would like to work on research" in my 3rd or 4th year?

[low tundra]

Depends on uni but good unis yes there should be programs

Also in US there's like the REUs or something something

Rich/well-resourced unis can have undergraduate research programs

[quartz pollen]

Awesome, thanks!

[main marlin]

what programs to look into if im interested in probability theory, and specifically financial mathematics

[modern crane]

Are GREs still relevant for US schools? I see that most say that it's optional

[shell kindle]

General GRE is not very relevant

Math GRE is vaguely relevant

More and more schools are making it optional and it is of decreasing relevance

[modern crane]

Ah alright thanks. Does that mean I won't be disadvantaged if I don't do them - they are really expensive

[shell kindle]

Some schools do still require them so do note the requirements of the schools you are applying to

[modern crane]

Will do, thanks

[cold tiger]

Depends on where you live. In France I know there's Master in Probability and Finance at X and Paris IV that is quite famous, but as everything French, Idk about its reputation outside French border

[low tundra]

How to pronounce Paris IV

[subtle knoll]

Paris I V

[shell kindle]

Paris quatre

[main marlin]

paris ivy

[hexed ibex]

Do certain crappy journals have a script that sends an email to like every random arxiv preprint author once it’s posted

[shell kindle]

Yes

[hexed ibex]

lmao

[bronze spoke]

I got one of those

[proper dirge]

So a phd track program in france (2 years masters+ 3 years) had this requirement and i'm not sure how general or specific they want this to be? considering people will be applying to this following undergrad are they expecting people that already know the SPECIFIC topic they want to research? or is this asking for a more "general" research direction within someones field of interest.

https://psl.eu/en/education/find-your-curriculum/psl-phd-tracks this is the website of the program if its relevant , it includes 8 programs one of them is mathematics

wait nvm im blind , there is a section for it in FAQ

aight problem resolved

[fluid lagoon]

I am interested in UWO (Western , Ontario) and i want to take my master there, but I am not really sure if i will be able to graduate 😅,like dose UWO consider hard ?
My MGPA is 3.95/4 my uni rank #1 in my country but around #700 WW 🗿

[compact forum]

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2023/mathematics?&sort_by=rank&order_by=asc

It's only up to 531 entries

[main marlin]

uwo :3

[fluid lagoon]

🗿

[muted nymph]

hi, is there a place where i can ask for personal statement advice?#

Or a personal statement review

[shell kindle]

Here

Someone might volunteer to review your personal statement

[low tundra]

You can DM willing people, though I see no one has offered

Maybe wait a while idk

[sonic compass]

anyone have more gre practice tests lieing around?

I've gotten through all the ones i found on that one uchicago page that shows up when you webcrawl, as well as all the ones i found on that online library

[hexed ibex]

Those ones are more than enough

The actual problems aren’t nearly as hard

https://sites.math.rutgers.edu/~iacoley/greprep.html
If you insist though

I think if you’ve done all the uchicago ones the other stuff is a waste of time

[sonic compass]

alright well thanks, i feel competent in terms of getting through all the questions with a comfortable margin at the end of the test, but i worry about stupid mistakes or forgetting how to do things

if the real thing is easier than the practice tests then what's a good metric for approximating a score to aim for relative to what you hit on the practice tests?

[worthy apex]

I recommend asking profs at your institution. Most of us here are either grad students or undergrads, and frankly, I don't know what the other side of grad admissions looks like. There might be a handful of people who do know, and it certainly won't hurt you per se to ask for feedback here, but there's definitely other people out there better qualified.

[muted nymph]

Ok that’s great to know thanks

[warm marsh]

Wow😻

[agile dust]

Has JMM made application decisions yet?

[smoky jetty]

(we're at that stage of the semester) how important are my grades this semester for getting into graduate school?

[sonic compass]

how many semesters are you from graduating?

[tacit lark]

I dont think theyre that important. I didnt even submit my grades from fall semester. Some schools do require fall grades though so look out for that.

[smoky jetty]

2 (this spring) so applying to grad schools now

[smoky jetty]

hm ok

meh if I do badly in 1 class rest of my transcript is good it's not the end of the world

[sonic compass]

Probably important if your GPA in the past two years isnt great

[sonic compass]

that said this is also true so try not to lose your shit

[smoky jetty]

nah my GPA the past 3 years is good

[main marlin]

p sure bsc + msc is an extra sem relative to a bsc in america

o

[stoic jewel]

Can I get suggestions on writing a statement of interest for a masters program app, my situation is I'm interested in Harmonic Analysis and Fractal geometry, but I did only one undergrad project in combinatorics so that's not really relevant, so maybe I should not include that. But I don't know much about fractal geometry at all(except that I've been reading a textbook). What should I put in this case?

Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.

[shadow bobcat]

There's actually more of a connection than you might think, I know a professor who does fractal geometry and he ends up working with graphs a lot

[stoic jewel]

Okay I guess I’m just unsure of where the connection is, and the professor I did the combinatorics project with said he’s not familiar with (or interested in) analysis stuff. I suppose I should put my experience there anyways?

[stoic jewel]

I’m also wondering if it’s okay to not mention any niche things in the subject and instead just say “I’m interested in X and Y in general” because I really don’t know much about Harmonic analysis to say anything intelligent about it

[stray seal]

Any experience is good. Don't be afraid to mention the combinatorics project, especially if you wrote something as a result. It's common for your interests to change from undergrad to grad school; no issues here. Just say you're interested in X and Y. It helps the committee know if the program is a good fit for you too.

[cold tiger]

depends on how high your GPA is already. If it's sparkling, no one cares. But if it's not, in EU, they will make some conditional offers on your GPA.

[unborn coral]

what if my gpa is doodoo? like rn i have a 3.47 cumulative and 3.23 core (3 B, 2 B+, 1 A-)

but tbf i have only taken graduate lvl math classes but idk if that matters too much esp considering other undergrads r probably doing what im doing but way better

like will they see my gpa and be like “no” or will they take my classes into consideration too?

also another question is how important is it to get into a big school for wanting to go into math academia

if the big school doesnt have a faculty member i wanna work w i prob wont apply, but what if i was comparing a mid-tier school and a big school, both with a faculty member id be interested in working w?

how much does graduate school prestige matter in getting post docs/the holy grail of tenure track?

[half meadow]

Who you've worked with and which work you've done matters a whole lot more than generalized "prestige" of an institution.

[unborn coral]

sounds good

how do u find good faculty advisors?

• i signed up for the ams virtual grad school thingy
• ppl usually say stuff like “go to conferences” but it’s not very feasible for me bc im busy
• i look on arxiv or smth in the fields im interested in but idk who is good and who isnt

[proper dirge]

How would you go about explaining grade deflation at your university in SOP?

[tepid forum]

perhaps your referee could point to your percentile to contextualise your letter grades

or something similar

[shadow bobcat]

If you have an advisor or know a professor in that area ask them. If you look at publications and someone is cited a lot, if someone has a lot of pubs in big journals in that area or in general. Look at how someone's grad students have done also someone can be a brilliant mathematician but a bad supervisor my advisor has a friend like that where none of his grad students have had any like "good" outcomes academically and he thinks it cause their supervision isn't great

[unborn coral]

gotcha thanks

[main marlin]

reposting here in case anyone else has any recommendations for me (leaving some of the points alone just to see what others say):

I'm trying to do grad applications but I'm getting really hung up on the requirement for recommendation letters, especially from math faculty.

• background: my ugrad has been rocky (abuse from some people, had to take a break) and in my fixative autism, take on way more than is reasonable. Now I'm an average B student in mathematics but higher in my other subjects I guess because how much more effort math takes me. I haven't really talked much to the instructors I've had for classes since a lot of them were late grad students or postdocs in other subfields (they're also not at my university anymore) but the professors that I've talked to, about my and their research interests, I wasn't able to complete the classes of because of my break, and on top of that it's been a couple years since talking.

• is it appropriate for me to ask the professors that I've talked to about research for recommendation letters? I'm absolutely terrified of asking because inconveniencing others makes me feel horrible about myself and I'm pretty sure that they'd say no or not even remember me.

• I've also been trying to go through some of the university's faculty's research (though it's definitely difficult). Would it make more sense for me to wait on my applications (so take another gap in my academic history) and talk to some of the professors to see if they'd be willing to work with me on a project?

• does anyone have any other recommendations for strengthening applications? (it's very hard to get research in theoretical sciences here in my experience)

thank you! : )

[undone yacht]

1. having had "struggles" can be made to an advantage; shows that you can handle problems. but you have to show you can perform after/during. take some more courses and focus on good grades, and upwards trajectory. 2. just ask them, it is not a "burden" saying no if they can't. 3. don't you do a b.sc. thesis?

[shell kindle]

Depends on where low did undergrad

Thesis is not a given

[main marlin]

@undone yacht thank you! no, we have honors theses. I can do mine in physics because I'm nearly 4.0 in it but I cannot find anyone to sponsor it. I asked every theoretical physicist in the physics department, and even asked if they'd just read it because I could work with a mathematician on it (a couple were willing to work with me) and practically everyone said no. someone said that they'd like to help but that I'd have to take more classes (I'm not sure exactly why since I've taken so many and I've read books on the subject. i think that they just didn't want to say no) which I don't have time to do before my petition

[undone yacht]

why not grad school in physics then?

[main marlin]

I don't mind mathematical physics but physics just isn't my sort of subject. the physics that I like is mostly mathematicians making rigorous constructs / methods from theoretical physics. I've not enjoyed both my work in experimental physics and education in physics generally. (I guess that I do find it enjoyable but just not in academia)

[undone yacht]

not to be discouraging (and this is very different for different people and universities), but i do not take on any students for a "project" to help me with research. it would typically be a net negative, so that never happens. a m.sc. thesis project (6-9 months) is kind of the minimum. a teaching focused university is probably different. hope you find something.

[main marlin]

understandable. I think that the expectation / requirement for ugrad research is nonsensical (since master's programs in pure mathematics aren't very common here) but there isn't much I can do.

[shell kindle]

In the US at least, undergrad research is nice but certainly not expected

[main marlin]

@shell kindle I'm in the usa. do professors write good recommendation letters for students that have just been in a course of theirs?

[shell kindle]

Just been in a course makes for an average to not great rec letter

Been in a course + consistently went to office hours/interacted with professor in some other way makes for a good rec letter

But lots of professors do write rec letters for people who have just taken classes with them

[main marlin]

(sorry for opening a pm with you, bad with this platform) @shell kindle would they still remember even if you were gone for a long while, you think?

[shell kindle]

Would vary by professor

[unborn coral]

i work at a math program through my uni as a UTA/tutor, would it be a good idea to get a letter of recommendation from my boss?

alongside a professor’s

or would it be better to do two professors

ive taken initiative in things like “my instructor is having trouble, how do i help him” and “this student is being annoying, how do i respond” and i recently asked if i could teach a course that GTAs usually teach next semester

he said he’ll lmk if theyre short on GTA instructors

[shell kindle]

Lots of grad schools want 3 letters

[unborn coral]

oh ok good to know

two professors + boss vs three professors?

[smoky jetty]

depends on how well you know that 3rd prof but I'd wager 3rd prof better

unless literally the only connection is you took a class with them

[hexed ibex]

I mean if your grades are very good I think they usually are willing to write something

from my experience a 67% chance

the other one made up an excuse that he didn't keep files for longer than 2 years

[main marlin]

If i do a masters in applied math at a university

what happens after my program if I apply for a PhD at that same university?

[shell kindle]

This will depend a lot on the university

[main marlin]

Whats the differences going to be with a MS in Stats

vs a MS in Applied Math (probability theory)

[sonic compass]

this will depend a lot on the university

[next fern]

Guys i wanna start working on np completeness, any pointers to where i should start ?

[half meadow]

Start by broadening your interest to computational complexity in general. You're not going to crack P vs NP by aiming squarely for that one problem that everybody have been staring at for the last 50 years, anyway.

[cold tiger]

I'd say even just studying CompSci in general, and forgetting about P vs NP for now.

A lot of times, solutions to big unsolved problems don't come from within the field

If anyone had said they wanna prove FLT, no one would have ever recommend doing elliptic curves, but that's how it's done

[grand palm]

Mulmuly’s geometric complexity theory ?

[tacit lark]

What is your background? Assuming you have some math maturity, the book Computational Complexity: A Modern Approach by Arora and Barak is a good place to start learning complexity theory.

[next fern]

Did the messages get deleted ?

Where are the books that one guy recommended ?

[next fern]

I have a bachelors in material science but a lot of research there is tied to having a lot of money so i switched to cs

@cold tiger did the messages get deleted ?

[tacit lark]

I don't think many people are working on NP completeness right now. I see a lot of people working on derandomization, meta/proof complexity, quantum complexity and circuit complexity

there are some people working on algebraic complexity things too

[next fern]

Isnt that inter related ?

[tacit lark]

Youll want to be very familiar with proofs, discrete math (graph theory combinatorics), and knowing math topics like algebra and optimization is useful

[tacit lark]

what do you mean

[next fern]

Like algebraic complexity interlinked with complexity of graphs ?

[tacit lark]

obviously these fields are related they are all under complexity theory

algebraic complexity does look at different problems than 'complexity of graphs'. there is some relation between the fields though.

[next fern]

Oh ok

[smoky jetty]

what about it?

[smoky jetty]

algebraic complexity is the study of algebraic circuits. So these are like normal circuits but now you're really computing polynomials over a field and your gates are (usually) multiplication, addition, and scalar multiplication

rather than normal circuits with and, or, and not

the defining problem of the field is the circuit size of the determinant of an n x n matrix, which is a small polynomial

vs the circuit size of the permenant of an n x n matrix, which is conjectured to required exponential size

[next fern]

Damn thats so interesting

[smoky jetty]

however if you have questions ask me in #math-discussion or #advanced-lounge

since this is very off topic for this channel

[next fern]

Thanks i will do that from now on

[smoky jetty]

Other than statement of purpose + a list of schools I am applying to (so that my letter writers know where to send stuff) are there any big ticket items I need to start working on ASAP for graduate school apps?

I'm feeling really behind on apps but idk if I am behind

[shell kindle]

Are you applying for NSF

[smoky jetty]

no

I'm too late for that I don't have the time to put together an app

which sucks but is the reality

[plush verge]

Has anyone here done the UVA REU?

[pulsar isle]

could I ask someone here to take a look at my SOP and critique it? feel free to DM me.

(Please note that I have no idea what I’m doing)

[smoky jetty]

So say I have a semi-finalized list of schools

What does reaching out to a prof mean?

Like do I just say "hey I am interested in working with you, here's who I am. I am applying, are you taking students in the next 1-2 years?"

[tacit lark]

basically but more formal

[smoky jetty]

ofc more formal

ok cool

[tacit lark]

also make sure their website doesnt say do not email me before you email them lol

[smoky jetty]

yes

[cold tiger]

Maybe not directly with NP completeness, but a lot ppl work on complexity

For example, in recent years there have been some hypotheses about the minimum complexity of some problems, and they have wide applications.

I won't be surprised if in a few years, one of them turns out to be as essential as RH

[tacit lark]

ya ik just named 4 fields of complexity that are pretty active... my list is not exhaustive, but yea complexity theory is pretty active.

Looking at https://simons.berkeley.edu/programs-events/research-programs#nav-past-programs is a good way to see what people in theoretical computer science and related fields are thinking about

[main marlin]

food of thought: I feel like online forums (like MathGRE) have created such a false impression that one must take graduate courses/do REUs/publish/etc. as an undergrad or else they don't stand a chance for grad school. As a result, it leads to bias on those sites and thinking there's hyper-competitiveness in the process.

||from one of those forums:||

[main marlin]

May I ask why you want to do it? Because it rarely helps your chance to get accepted per se. If it was to determine where you should go, it'd be appropriate to email after you get accepted and not before.

[low tundra]

It is competitive

[tacit lark]

It could also be to determine where to apply. If the faculty you want to work with are not taking students in the near future you then you may not want to apply.

[tacit lark]

That forum is toxic but grad school admissions (at “top school”) are very competitive.

[main marlin]

Yes, and I'm not claiming they aren't competitive. What I'm saying is these applicants tend to tie their worth to REUs and pubs and believe they stand a chance at top schools by "proving their commitment." But, from my knowledge, the purpose of an REU is to gain experience, not to (directly) improve their chance by nature. The same goes for publications and grad classes.

[sonic compass]

you're not stating much new there, and there's no simple solution to the problem of "grifters stressing people out" (or crab bucket mentality) in a system that has the appearance of being both meritocratic and competitive

if you have a solution that doesnt just discard someone's wish to pursue this (honestly self flagellatory) lifestyle you should just express it instead of waffling bout

[torpid temple]

I am writting a c.v. for my masters application, and I am starting to realize how little I did in my undergrad. I have nothing to put in the cv except my one REU and some dean's list award

[tall token]

Well I was not even in the dean’s list the last time I applied..

[vestal swan]

I feel like that's pretty normal, no?

maybe I'm just not accustomed to the American system 🤔

[candid quarry]

I think that's standard for right after undergrad. But it can also serve as a wake up call to work hard during masters lol

Writing an SOP in particular puts your entire undergrad into perspective especially since you have to talk about your interests and what progress you've made towards them.

[tacit lark]

yea it's normal. mushy is being dramatic lol.

[cold tiger]

while you most likely won't get any full-ride scholarships, it's completely normal tho

[hexed ibex]

I mean the market these days is definitely oversaturated

If you’re on the international side it also gets a lot worse

[hexed ibex]

This is not a false impression at all

You have to compete with people who literally did not take any courses other than math and still manage to talk nonstop about CW complexes after a six pack

[shell kindle]

No that's a false impression

[hexed ibex]

And they still apply to a ton of safeties

[shell kindle]

You absolutely do not need to have taken grad courses or done an reu or published to get into grad school

[hexed ibex]

And while they are all waiting for the top places they hold their safeties spots till past April 15

I think about the two guys my advisor had for REU and honestly they probably started doing it in middle school

There was also a girl in high school who somehow got involved and managed to get her name on a paper

I have no clue how she even joined in but I didn’t ask. In any case when I was in high school I didn’t know what a group was and she was doing AG

[shell kindle]

While these exceptional students do exist, they are by no means the norm

[hexed ibex]

For the applicants of top places these are probably quite commonplace
Me personally at this point I would be totally satisfied with a mediocre grad school

[shell kindle]

I am at a T15 and while there are people with exceptional backgrounds there are also people with more plain backgrounds

[hexed ibex]

I mean
If they fit in certain demographics

[tacit lark]

i didn't even take calculus in high school and i got into some pretty decent places.

[shell kindle]

Certain demographics?

[hexed ibex]

I had one in grad school doing undergrad abstract algebra in the class I was grading

Can I call this place T20 well maybe

[shell kindle]

Had one what

[hexed ibex]

one grad school student taking undergrad abstract algebra

[shell kindle]

Sure, here we have lots of mixed undergrad/grad classes

[hexed ibex]

Here it’s not the case

And she was probably the worst student in the class ironically

Compared to undergrads

[shell kindle]

Wait how is this relevant to anything?

[undone yacht]

ok?

[hexed ibex]

I don’t know about how often they grant leniency to quals etc but this also happens to some people who are much less prepared
Technically say 3 times is the max but some people stretch it to 5 times and others get around it completely by some special procedure on account of research process
You can have relatively weak profiles but you must have something to compensate for it
Your average Joe doesn’t have that and there’s no point in raising his expectation too high

[quick isle]

Does dropping a class mid-semester look significantly bad for grad school applications? This'd be the first class I've ever dropped and it's an elective, if that affects anything

[hexed ibex]

If you have too many Ws they don’t like it

[quick isle]

Okay just one should be fine then

[shell kindle]

You may briefly mention it in your personal statement and give a reason for the drop

Assuming you have a good reason

[quick isle]

I don't think I have a good reason

[shell kindle]

Oh well just don't mention it then

[quick isle]

Usually I take 13/14 hours, this semester I decided to do 16, but combined with other stuff it's been difficult to manage my time. I didn't manage my time well enough to study for the last exam and I got a 36 and I don't think my grade's gonna recover even if I do well on the final so I want to drop and not waste my time stressing over this class 🙃 but I do want to retake it in the future

[hexed ibex]

Is it in the major

[quick isle]

Yes, but it's just an elective

[hexed ibex]

Also since it’s just this semester when you send in the transcript the grade probably isn’t even there yet

[quick isle]

My school also has a program to grandfather prospective undergrads into graduate degrees, which I've applied to, so I should probably check the requirements for that lol

Oh I'm still a bit away from graduating

[hexed ibex]

I wouldn’t stress over one W or one B say
In certain classes they curve a lot so compare it to the average

[grand wyvern]

start applying to graduate schools
see someone that did an adjacent REU to mine was accepted into U Chicago with 4 publications and 5 preprints before finishing undergrad
should i even bother spending $100 on this application . maybe this school is too good

[shell kindle]

4 publications and 5 preprints is not the standard

[grand wyvern]

i have one publication and i took a single graduate course in real analysis . i guess we'll see how things go for me

[shell kindle]

One publication is great

[unborn coral]

genuinely curious: how do u have one publication but only one grad course

[grand wyvern]

i've read the above messages. i've met a few people who have taken like 10 graduate courses, some of them were at my REU . then THOSE people have met some insane undergrads

one guy took like 5 grad courses at once and would write hints to all of the exercises for other students

[vestal swan]

I’ve taken a few graduate courses but 5 at the same time is insane lol

[grand wyvern]

i did an REU, the topic was picked pretty well i think, it was in some group theory combinatorics stuff. we ended up generalizing one of the papers we were supposed to generalize in a different (but probably much better) way than what was expected

[unborn coral]

oh gotcha

[grand wyvern]

then i took analysis the next semester

then i was really burned out and basically was forced by university bureaucracy to take intro to number theory

so i took probability and an undergrad differential geometry course my last semester

[grand wyvern]

yeah idek how you can do that kind of workload

[shell kindle]

Part of it is that at some point grad classes just stop assigning work

[vestal swan]

I took analytic number theory and algebraic number theory, and was pretty cooked by the end of the semester

So 5 is just

[grand wyvern]

yeah, i forgot about that. my friend took a lot of grad courses but like half of them were topics courses. so he barely had to do any work

i considered taking graduate level algebra, but our undergrad algebra was a good program. i don't think i would have learned anything new (okay maybe a bit. but not that much)

and i don't think i was enough of a gigachad to skip directly to graduate programs for every topic. i instantly developed bad insomnia as soon as i started my junior year of university

[vestal swan]

But anyways, one publication is already pretty good

[grand wyvern]

thank you. that makes me feel better i think. the guys at my REU are pretty cracked , moreso than i was

[vestal swan]

It’s definitely not the norm

Otherwise I am fucked

[unborn coral]

keep in mind that the guys at ur REU represent a tiny tiny tiny fraction of applicants

like. tiny

like. really tiny

[vestal swan]

Selection bias moment

[grand wyvern]

the program was half women and half men, all of the men knew way more math than me, i was enby at the time, and then the women knew much less math than the men. it was a gradient. also, it was kind of an uncomfortable dynamic

[shell kindle]

That does seem really uncomfy

[grand wyvern]

it was like every group was set up to mansplain from the start

[grand wyvern]

yeah, i think i eventually realized they are some of the top undergraduates in the country (depending on how selective "some" is)

i was pretty insecure after that REU though

[unborn coral]

REUs are very selective

p sure like. most schools only accept 9 undergrads

(im also totally not coping with the fact i didnt get into any)

but yea getting into an REU is already a big + on ur app, having published during it is an even bigger +

[shell kindle]

I got into grad school without doing any reus so doing an reu is already very good

[grand wyvern]

haha, my girlfriend applied to like 7 programs and got into 5. it's so different than being a man

my friend, who had the same coursework as me, applied to like 13 and got into none

okay, back to applications...

[subtle knoll]

yes, two cycles ago I applied to 25 and was admitted to 1.

but probabaly because my SOP was rubbish at the time...

[grand wyvern]

i would say but i am glad you got into one . i applied to 5 and just had like insane luck

[unborn coral]

i applied to 7 or 8 idr

[vestal swan]

I’m applying to 10-12 this cycle

[unborn coral]

i should prob get started on my apps

[vestal swan]

I will be broke by the end

[unborn coral]

🤬

[vestal swan]

especially since it’s ~$100USD per app

[grand wyvern]

damn really, i forgot that there were application fees

[vestal swan]

and the conversion rate between AUD and USD is kinda bonkers

$157 AUD

[young pulsar]

we are going to solve p vs np using divine revelation

[torpid temple]

I feel much relieved. I have been looking at these example c.v.s they have on the Uni site and they were multiple pages long.

[torpid temple]

Btw, what is an SOP? Standard operating procedure?

Ah, statement of purpose, nvm

[vestal swan]

my cv is quite long but that's because teaching experience takes up the bulk of it

might try and condense it

[hexed ibex]

A research resume will do

[main marlin]

you're being hysterical, no offense tho

[hexed ibex]

You are entitled to that opinion

[candid quarry]

I think this is true

[dusty trellis]

Saturated market..?

[candid quarry]

It being harder for international students to get in. In my experience American students have a lot less mathematical background at the beginning of the program at my uni than the average international student. There might be other things that explain the disparity though

[dusty trellis]

Ah, that is certainly true

..but wasnt it always that way

International students always struggled to get in.

[main marlin]

I don't think grad committees would heavily base on one's background to determine their acceptance. They evaluate the potential to perform well at the grad level of mathematics, which is why Letters of Rec matter critically so having a lesser background isn't that much of a deal breaker.
If by "less background," you mean fewer to no grad courses, for example, upon acceptance a student with grad courses in undergrad would still have to take the classes required for quals. Passing quals upon matriculation is possible but rare, and departments don't work by taking people in for them to pass quals and find advisors from day one.

[candid quarry]

I see. I was basing it on a bunch of international students in my cohort passing a bunch of quals upon matriculation, so I wouldn't call it "rare"

But I guess it makes sense that departments won't try to optimize for that

[grand wyvern]

If you have held or now hold fellowships, scholarships, or other honors, please indicate source, title and applicable dates
does this include things like "highest honors" from having a 4.0 GPA? i figure this is something they will see on my transcript; it's not like i was deans list or whatever (a "real" honors). also does getting paid (from the university) to do an REU count as a fellowship?

[shell kindle]

The REU should go in the research section

Listing highest honors would be fine

[grand wyvern]

pog, thank you

[unborn coral]

i'm graduating early, but as much as i'd like to stay for undergrad all four years, it's expensive

but im gruaduating during the fall semester of my junior year (i.e., 2.5 years in undergrad) but i'm still not quite sure what field of math i wanna do

and im kind of worried about applying for grad schools if i dont have a set idea of what i want to study

do grad schools care if i take a gap year?

im thinking i could take the gap year to do some more reading on my own time and see if there's anything i really like

but there's also the issue of like. i have nothing to show for it

im also not sure if that reason would be compelling enough, if i had the option to explain in my application

furthermore schools get more and more competitive each year, so would i benefit from just biting the bullet and applying asap?

[main marlin]

this may answer your question:

[unborn coral]

oh thats sick thanks

but ig i dont really know what broad area i want to do

im leaning towards algebra but idk if thats really what i want to do

i have a friend in grad school who was like “i wanted to do algebra until i did two more years of algebra and realized i dont like it”

(i would take anything over analysis i hate analysis 🤬🤬🤬)

[main marlin]

you're free to discuss that in SOP but there's no expectation that you will stick with it

[unborn coral]

hmm fair

[main marlin]

in addition, an issue I've seen is applicants tend to treat subfields like sports teams, making a big deal about what fields they like and/or don't, you should avoid that in your statement.

[unborn coral]

yeah i wont mention it in my sop ofc 😭 i was kind of joking

[agile spade]

Is doing grad courses as an undergrad good for applying to grad schools?

There's just a combinatorics course I'm really interested in and it's being offered at a local university

[pulsar furnace]

Provided you do well in them, yes.

[grand wyvern]

i thought i wanted to do analysis for awhile in undergrad (mainly because i felt better at that than algebra), but now my statement of purpose (accurately) says i want to do algebraic geometry and rep theory . i feel like its impossible to know

also i know basically 0 complex analysis (besides what's in baby rudin, and that's just convergence memes). i'm going to get to grad school and realize i want to do that, or alg top (another course i haven't taken), or analytic number theory, or something

[smoky jetty]

Wut

Should I not talk about what I'm interested in?

Like "hey I want to explore xyz subjects. I find these interesting because of abc"

[tacit lark]

i think its fine to talk about what currently interests you

[smoky jetty]

Idk what else I'd talk about lol

[tacit lark]

there is plenty to talk about other than what you think your research interests are

[tacit lark]

the statement can be somewhat tricky. I stated my interests as discrete math and tcs. I didn't want to be too specific, but I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to work on. Most undergrads don't have enough research experience and background to know what they're niche will be. I explained how I became interested in these fields. Some specific courses I took that I think prepared me to do research in discrete math/tcs and specific topics in those courses that I really enjoyed and felt shaped my interests. I also mentioned how these courses motivated me to pursue research. I spoke about two research experiences I was involved in, what I worked on and briefly stated results. More importantly, I discussed what I enjoyed about these experiences, what I felt I got out of them, and how they influenced me (both in terms of deciding to attend grad school and my career goals). I ended with a paragraph about what I liked about the program and why i am a good fit.

I think it you can come across as naive/closeminded if you're too specific ab research interests.

I guess what I did was talk about what I've liked so far, the broad flavor of problems that I find interesting, and related things that I think I would like based on my current interests

[deep kestrel]

hey

i'm interested in applying to grad schools next cycle, and im

wondering what is realistic to shoot for

I'm pretty good at math for a senior in uni

I go to a T10 university, T15 mathematics, T5 applied math, majoring in applied math, computer science, pure math

[shell kindle]

Ask a professor who knows you and your interests well what they would recommend

[deep kestrel]

I have B's in honors multivariable calc, and undergrad abstract algebra 1, and a C in undergrad galois theory since my professor has an autoimmune disorder and taught via prerecorded lectures during covid, but have A's in every other more advanced class, including analysis, undergrad measure theory, undergrad analysis on manifolds, undergrad probability, graduate analysis, graduate probability theory, graduate algebra, undergrad applied odes/pdes, undergrad stats, undergrad linear programming, undergrad stochastic processes, undergrad large deviation theory/information theory, and honors linear algebra. I'm hoping that my C won't ruin me

basically i'm wondering how much they will scrutinize my freshman year coursework in honors multi, algebra, and galois theory, which was during covid

i'm also doing a thesis on novel connection in stochastic optimal control theory

i feel like i'm a strong applicant, but i have lowkey been bugging out about my poor grades from early on

[shell kindle]

Ask your thesis advisor

[deep kestrel]

ok gotcha

i'm shooting for analysis heavy programs like NYU courant, MIT, Columbia, Harvard, etc...

[shell kindle]

It's hard for us to say, whereas your thesis advisor is presumably a professor and thus on the other side of the applications process

[deep kestrel]

yeah

i should def ask him

thanks for the advice

[shell kindle]

(harvard is not what I would call analysis heavy)

[deep kestrel]

My advisor, who his an analysis-guy, recommended harvard, albeit behind the others i mentioned

[tacit lark]

These are all extremely competitive. Its very likely you do not get into any of those even if you had all As.

Id talk to your advisor

Id def make sure to apply to a decent number of schools and throw in some good but not elite schools.

[worthy apex]

No that's my answer to your question

[pulsar isle]

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this, but is it possible to transfer PhD programs? I don't think I'm very likely do get into a "prestigious" program due to lacking research experience.

[main marlin]

I'm not implying that you shouldn't discuss your interests at all.
But it's advisable to be open-minded about other areas in Math, like what people are researching at the program you're applying to. So you shouldn't only apply because you wish to work with one or two specific professors whose interests mirror yours.

[smoky jetty]

Isn’t the better answer do a masters first?

[smoky jetty]

Well sure but should I say so in my personal statement? Something like “these are cool, I want to work with these people, but am open to other things” because that sounds unfocused (of course I’d word it more formally)

[tall token]

You can “apply again”, but you’ll have to do your prelims again and set your schedule back a little bit.

[cold tiger]

Provided you Master-ed out, schools in EU are an option

[main marlin]

In basics: You can give a broad/general area of what you like (e.g.: Number Theory) to narrow things down but don't be too vague about it.
I can't speak with authority here, but unless you were one of the few undergrads who had taken an unusual amount of graduate courses, I would think it's hard to propose a research problem that isn't poorly defined, so sounding a bit "unfocused" wouldn't be held against you (again, as long as you weren't vague about your direction).

[sonic compass]

whats a good resource to look for active research groups in a topic you might want to do a phd in?

following arxiv trails have been less than fruitful for me

[shell kindle]

The standard advice is to ask faculty at your current institution

[sonic compass]

i am no longer at any institution

[shell kindle]

Right I was guessing that that may have been the case

What topics are you interested in?

[sonic compass]

mostly been interested in group extensions for various classes of groups, also interested in studying groupoids (brandt/categorical, not magmas) in relation to this.

outside the presentations i've seen on amenable groups it seems like the finite case and central extensions have reached a satisfying point for a lot of mathematicians, atleast as such that i havent found any active research groups, for example with classifying broader classes

[half meadow]

Figure out where research in your target area gets published, sample author affiliations for all papers in the last several years that sound somewhat relevant.

[shell kindle]

The concern is that for this particular area not very much gets published

[half meadow]

Oh.

[sonic compass]

not much i've been able to find on my own atleast, maybe its out there but under hundreds of references to more popular, older papers on the subject

[smoky jetty]

wouldn't then the advice be don't focus on such a particular area?

that's what I've heard idk

like don't focus too hard too early when just applying

[shell kindle]

I mean if you want to do something you want to do it

It is not my place to tell people to avoid certain areas of math

[smoky jetty]

well not avoid but like

ok so for example my current interest in combinatorics is like schubert geometry type stuff since idk it looks pretty

but I've been told to talk more broadly about algebraic combinatorics in my SOP and look at schools that are good at algebraic combinatorics, not specifically that thing about schubert calc

I am parroting here partially so that if this idea is wrong then someone tells me it is wrong

[tacit lark]

I agree with this

Imo You shouldnt restrict yourself so early on

[sonic compass]

i just think theres an interesting result i could prove, and i figure theres interesting consequences, computationally

maybe i should go towards computational algebra

[quaint wasp]

im not actually applying for masters until next year but im wondering if anyone has any idea on what kind of stuff i can do now to put on my applications in the future?

like i dont rly have any relevant extracurriculars or anything and im kinda stressed abt it

and its not like theres really any internships available apart from in stuff more in applied maths or statistics which isnt rly what im interested in

also do plan to talk to ppl at my uni abt it but just wondering if anyone here has anything to say abt it as well

[main marlin]

my current interest in combinatorics is like schubert geometry type stuff since idk it looks pretty
Keep in mind: Ideally, you should be able to (briefly) talk about something that you find meaningful, and doesn't sound like you pick a random terminology you don't fully know or have a superficial understanding of for the sake of being sophisticated in your essay. However, as I already said, unless you were an unusual undergrad with several graduate courses and uncompromised research experience, being that technical about your specific interests is hard, so that is why it's encouraged to have a broad idea of what you want to do.

[stone wagon]

How important are math subject GREs for applying to phd programs from undergrad?

[cold tiger]

You still have a year, meaning all is not lost

Assuming top schools and/or scholarships are what you aim for, internships are imperative.

Doesn't always work, but one thing that works for math, is that you can maybe, just maybe, do a seminar. Idk if there's something like students' seminars there, but it's something great to show

any internships available apart from in stuff more in applied maths or statistics
I'm surprised. I mean, ppl do pure math "internships" (not really, but whatever) all the time.

[quaint wasp]

really? where do they normally go to do them?

its either just a lot rarer where i live (scotland) or im looking in the wrong places

[quaint wasp]

as far as i know that isnt really an option around here but ill try to look into it more

ive also been trying to think of some more niche things like maybe making a yt channel about maths or something but tbh thats pretty high effort and idk if it would even look that good on an application

[smoky jetty]

when you say pure math internship

are you talking about REUs here in the US?

like go to a uni and do a project for 8-10 weeks

[cold tiger]

you take math courses, find that you enjoy the topic and/or the prof, and wanna dig more into it. You contact them, ask if they'll be willing to take you on, and voilà. These things are never posted, but if you ask, you'll see that it's not hard to get, provided you're not too bad as a student.

Most of the time, you won't do anything spectacular or even new, but it counts as "research" experience, and that's good. Ppl don't really care about what you can produce tbh, but they'd like to see if you can shove your head into a problem for months. That's an essential quality for PhD.

The same goes for seminars. It's actually hard to make a good seminar, you have to understand the subject very well.

[cold tiger]

to summarise, find what you like to do, and talk to profs about it. Or, if there's no one working on what you want, you can contact other profs elsewhere yourself (but it's better to have some intro words from some profs they know though, you'll see that in this game, introductions go a long way).

[smoky jetty]

How long should I make my generic personal statement (will modify further for each school)

[shell kindle]

1 to 1.5 pages

[torpid echo]

Aim for < 1000 words

Basically every school I applied to that had a word requirement asked for <= 1000 words, except for one which was <= 500

[smoky jetty]

How are these usually submitted?

Should I bother formatting my statement using LaTeX as a PDF or is it mostly just pasting my statement into a text box?

also can I talk about directed reading under a graduate student even if it wasn't official?

I worked through a little bit of a textbook and 3-4 papers with a graduate student

but it wasn't part of an official program, I just saw he did research in these things I was interested in and we met up every week

[main marlin]

From UIUC's Math program, for example:

Please include a personal statement as part of your online application. We prefer statements that are honest, specific, and brief, and explain why you are applying to our program.

I don't think you need to dwell to much about what you've done

[smoky jetty]

that doesn't answer my question since this is something I do want to talk about if possible I just don't know if I should

[main marlin]

I misunderstood yours, sorry

[smoky jetty]

My question is basically about the fact that there is no official department sanctioned reading program that this directed reading fell into

[main marlin]

but usually, there are specific instructions on how you submit your application. For me, I submitted my statement in PDF format.

[smoky jetty]

hm I guess if I need to format it into a PDF it won't take too long anyways

[tacit lark]

Yea

[main marlin]

To answer your question without further context, it depends on how you think it's relevant to the context of (pure math) programs you're about to apply, like how it piques your interest. I wouldn't recommend mentioning it just because you don't have other good things to say or to sell yourself out.

[smoky jetty]

nah the stuff I read about is pretty related to the stuff I (currently) want to study

ty ty

[past plume]

Yes

[past plume]

Most learning is not 'official department sactioned', it doesn't matter. You should get one of your letter writers to vouch for your learning in this drp too, so that it appears more 'legitimate' to the application reviewers.

You can ask your grad student mentor to provide your letter writer with a paragraph detailing what and how you learned. It's not appropriate for grad students to write letters for your grad school application, but its undeniable that grad students have real influence on undergrads mathematics journeys through initiatives like drps and mentoring. In those cases, I believe the grad student should say something to the students letter writer which can be mentioned in their letters for grad apps

[past plume]

The last point about what the grad student 'should' do is of course a personal opinion and may not be shared by others. I also don't think the grad student has any responsibility until directly asked by the student to share some information with a letter writer

[smoky jetty]

Hm ok I'll think about the logistics of this

Because the grad student didn't really work with any of my letter writers

[tacit lark]

I dont think thats that important

[smoky jetty]

wdym

also goddamn 1000 words is tighter than expected

I really gotta trim this down

[grand palm]

Is this for SOP or persnoal statement ?

[shell kindle]

Where is the logistical difficulty

[smoky jetty]

What's the difference

[smoky jetty]

I mean just like explaining what I did and such

It's not logistical it's just like

Have to figure out how to word it

[grand palm]

some schools require both lol

[smoky jetty]

I reiterate what is the difference

I genuinely thought they were the same thing and was planning on submitting the same thing for both

[shell kindle]

Statement of purpose is more similar to a research statement

[smoky jetty]

Should I not be explaining my research interests in my personal statement then?

[vestal swan]

I view the personal statement as an opportunity to discuss your interests and motivations, speaking more to you as a person and less about your intentions to study in the program

[smoky jetty]

Hm

Sounds close to what I have in the moment

[grand palm]

Most of the schools ask only for a statement of purpose.

[smoky jetty]

Most seemed to ask for one or the other hence why I assumed they were the same

[grand wyvern]

when i see them ask for a personal statement, it usually says things like "talk about the unique perspective you're going to bring and how your life experiences made you who you are" or something

[grand wyvern]

i talked about doing this (it's what gave me my interest), and i know someone else that talked about this as well (it's what gave them their interest)

the other person got into stony-brook so can't have damaged his application that bad

[smoky jetty]

Ok so don't talk about why I want to go to that program in a personal statement but talk about it in a statement of purpose? Meaning that for every school that I'm applying to that asks for a personal statement, I use the exact same personal statement?

Then I have a bit of a paragraph about how I enjoy teaching and such, take that out and replace it with "here's why I want to attend your program" for a statement of purpose?

Kind of asking this since I'm well over a page right now, otherwise I'd just include everything lol

[grand wyvern]

idk, the ones i'm applying to always say to not talk about stuff you already talked about in your statement of purpose

so i wouldn't just interchange a single paragraph to differentiate between the two

does your program not say what to write about

[smoky jetty]

I mean some places ask for "personal statement" other places ask for a "statement of purpose"

And I thought they were the same

[smoky jetty]

Until I got this message

Hence me trying to figure out the difference and what to write in what

[grand wyvern]

oh interesting. i don't think mine are like that

[smoky jetty]

Cause I was planning on submitting the same thing for everything, just changing my "here is why I like this specific program" paragraph

But now I'm hearing that I should be changing more

[grand wyvern]

do they not say what they want you to discuss on the application? that's how i differentiate between them

[smoky jetty]

Hence me trying to nail it down

I mean some places just seem to be saying "submit a personal statement"

I'll dig in more

[grand wyvern]

hmmm i think UIC just has personal statement and doesn't say what to talk about

i think my official opinion is that if it's JUST a personal statement, it should be a statement of purpose basically. if they want both, then there's a bigger distinction and they shouldn't overlap

yeah i just checked, everywhere that i'm applying has either only a statement of purpose, or both (besides UIC). so i guess i just got lucky not being confused

[tacit lark]

I didnt differentiate between personal statement and sop lol

I got into UIC too

I just followed specific instructions given for the statements and if they didnt give any i just submitted sop

[tall token]

yo I was just at UIC this past weekend

[shell kindle]

For the midwest dynamics conference?

[tall token]

Yes!

[shell kindle]

[tall token]

How do you know? Also a dynamicist?

[shell kindle]

No comment

[tall token]

[tacit lark]

UIC has a very solid dept

especially for "mathematical cs" or whatever they call it

[torn wigeon]

not sure if this is appropriate for this channel, but how do y'all go about finding a professor to do research/reading with as an undergrad?

[cold tiger]

by luck 😄

[torn wigeon]

darn

[cold tiger]

three profs I found were all through different routes

[torn wigeon]

i have reached out to maybe 5 now and have gotten non-answers

[cold tiger]

the first one was because a professor asked a bunch of other profs and collect their proposals. I asked that prof, he asked my interest and sent me the list, I picked one.

the second one was because I was genuinely interested in the topic (and naive). I found the prof because he was pretty well-known, worked nearby, and once gave a course at my uni.

the third one was because the school posted a bunch of proposals. I picked one because it was the only one not relating to AI (and also happened to be in bioinformatics). Albeit it's quite different, because it was for thesis

I found some others too, if you counted those I didn't do internship with. Mostly sending emails and praying

[torn wigeon]

im afraid that at my uni, most of the professors are not that interested in working with undergraduates

[cold tiger]

well... for some profs, you kinda have to give them some reasons why

[torn wigeon]

at least that's how it seems at times

[pulsar isle]

try contacting professors youve taken courses with that you’ve done well in

I have almost a 100% positive response rate with that scenario

[cold tiger]

I'm sure they're al(most) kind, but they're busy as hell, and in many cases, supervising an undergrad is not counted toward working hours (shocking, I know)

[torn wigeon]

i totally understand why they wouldn't be interested

im just an undergrad

[cold tiger]

so I know some profs asked for transcripts, to be sure you're not messing around, but competent enough and can do something meaningful

[torn wigeon]

the problem is i fear that i am running out of time to get involved with some research and get people who can write me good letters of rec

[cold tiger]

some asked if you could solve an unsolved problem in disguise, but I have only seen two of this kind 😄

[cold tiger]

if you're running late for reclets, then perhaps you should consider other routes. Research experiences take quite some time, and it's tiring. If letters are the end goal, it might not worth it

[torn wigeon]

i should be clear

i want to do research for research sake

but i also need letters at some point

i only have one year left after this one

[cold tiger]

same here, but the thing is, you don't want that the reclet says "this human being seems nice, they show up in my class, and does reasonable work"

Unless the course is stupidly hard that getting good grades is an achievement by itself (which is not that uncommon)

[pulsar isle]

i meant for further opportunities not just letters, be it a reading course, research etc.

[cold tiger]

then I'd say there's time, but there's no time to waste

[torn wigeon]

i have done two official DRPs with grad students

and i meet with another grad student almost every week to talk about problems

but that's pretty much it

[cold tiger]

were those things official?

[torn wigeon]

yeah sanctioned by the math department

[cold tiger]

like, did any profs formally take charge of that on paper?

[torn wigeon]

there were no papers

[pulsar isle]

your best bet really is to contact professors whose courses you’ve taken in the past, especially the ones you did well in

[torn wigeon]

just give a talk at the end of the sem

[cold tiger]

ok, did any profs know what you did?

[torn wigeon]

no unfortunately

[cold tiger]

yucc

[torn wigeon]

i think this is the right move at this point

[cold tiger]

you can try your luck and see if grad students can talk to their supervisors, but in general, it's not really likely. Profs won't write something for someone they don't know personally. It's their name on the line.

[torn wigeon]

idk at this point im just gonna show up to their office and ask in person

and if they say no then they say no

[pulsar isle]

i would advise against that

[torn wigeon]

why?

[pulsar isle]

i think an email is preferred in thi s day and age

[cold tiger]

actually, I'd advise for in-person meetings

Everyone hates everything online after Covid. Especially profs

[torn wigeon]

i tried emailing but i don't know it seems impersonal

[pulsar isle]

in the 1980s when going to someones office without an appointment was common sure, but showing up unannounced is not the norm anymore, atleast from what i’ve inferred

[cold tiger]

Also for things this sensitive, i'd recommend talking face to face. It's easier explaining tiny details than writing long emails

and no one likes long emails anyway

[cold tiger]

Oh, but it is! That's what office hours are for

[pulsar isle]

yeah office hours are fine

just don’t randomly knock on their door

but idk most profs office hours these days are exclusively for students taking their courses

[cold tiger]

sure, you can write an email requesting a meeting and saying in sum what you want. Just don't ask for letters exclusively through emails.

it seems pretty rude tbh

[cold tiger]

but again, I've been only in small unis where this kind of thing has been possible. Idk for large unis tho...

[pulsar isle]

exactly, i’m at a large us public with around 20k students

[cold tiger]

lmao, my cohort has always been of 10's of students

[pulsar isle]

i think meeting in person without a very good reason is unheard of

its all through email

[cold tiger]

except no one ever shows up anyway

[pulsar isle]

yeah thats the funny part

[torn wigeon]

i go to a uni with 30k undergraduate

[cold tiger]

you can write something along the line of "I want to ask for a reclet because bla bla. Please let me know if you find a meeting for further discussion necessary."

[pulsar isle]

yeah an email is the way to go

[cold tiger]

because some profs are actually maniacs about those things. They wanna know pretty well your future plan

[torn wigeon]

i kinda wanna get to know them first, i feel like a dick just asking for a letter out of the blue

[cold tiger]

If I were a prof and I wrote a reclet, I needed to know the face of the person I were writing for first 😄

[pulsar isle]

ideally you would have gotten to know them in office hours and such

[shell kindle]

Randomly showing up to their office is fine, I did that plenty in undergrad

[pulsar isle]

i think its a bit different after covid, especially in large universities

[cold tiger]

usually the part "getting to know them" is done during the course, or a bit after that, not before you need a reclet

[pulsar isle]

some profs don’t even disclose their office hours publicly except to students taking their course

[cold tiger]

some profs don't even have offices

[cold tiger]

oof... good luck

[torn wigeon]

idk what else i gotta to to stand out to them

[cold tiger]

coming to office hours and staying around after the class, while do sound cliché, work

at least for me

yucc my phrasing, it's too late at night

[torn wigeon]

that's probably the right idea, but for some reason they just dont seem receptive

i go in there and ask questions and they answer it in as little words as possible and don't even let me stay in there to work on stuff

[cold tiger]

I wonder why: most students don't show interest. But if you do, and if your interest clicks with theirs, you'll be surprised

[pulsar isle]

consider asking ‘good questions’ like is x assumption necessary? can we generalize this to higher dimensions? etc.

bad questions include ‘what does this thing you just explained mean?’

[cold tiger]

don't ask lazy questions tho, like "Oh, I'm so lost at this, can you re-explain bla bla". Show that you tried, you did your homework, and it didn't work.

Or show that you actually go beyond the class

[torn wigeon]

ima just start reading in their subjects and ask them questions about it

at this point

[cold tiger]

that's too cliché tho, and it might not work. It has never worked for me

[torn wigeon]

idk what to do then

[pulsar isle]

also lead off with the reason you are asking the question for instance - I’ just curious/ I wanted to clarify etc..

[torn wigeon]

ima just keep trying

[cold tiger]

remember this: if they ever think that you ask questions just to get to know them, then they will turn you away. And trust me, they're excellent at sensing when this is the case

You've to be genuinely interested, otherwise it wouldn't work

[pulsar isle]

You have the right mindset, Im sure youll find something. Just be professional and try not to sound desperate

[torn wigeon]

okay those are all good things to think about

thank you both for your help

this process can be a bit stressful

[cold tiger]

it is stressful 😄 and you'll make it

[torn wigeon]

one more thing; what else other than gpa and letters do i need to make myself stand out as an applicant

[cold tiger]

research experiences

well, GRE used to be an option, but now for top schools, it's not anymore

[cold tiger]

actually I think this is the most important, assuming you wanna do something research-oriented (so not, say, Business degree)

[torn wigeon]

im going to try to land an REU this summer

[outer reef]

a high gpa will not make you stand out. you’d ideally develop a transcript that conveys mathematical maturity & supports a coherent story about your interests.

[cold tiger]

it's funny how things are so formal in US. In EU, there are some analogs of REU, but in general, most internships are done informally, or if formally, then not through something official. It's mostly a prof agreeing to take you on, and you suffering/enjoying it through the summer.

There might be a contract, or not. Sometimes there's no paperwork or application or anything

[cold tiger]

that being said, a low gpa is quite problematic tho...

[torn wigeon]

my gpa is fine and im on track to take some graduate courses next semester

[outer reef]

ok?

[torn wigeon]

how can i convey math maturity?

through the transcript

[cold tiger]

you take a variety of math courses

and with good grades

[outer reef]

a variety of advanced math courses*

[cold tiger]

and it's coherent with your research experiences, whenever applicable

[outer reef]

ideally some beyond the standard graduate coursework.

which together hint at some general research area.

[cold tiger]

idk about that... sometimes some courses are not even offered. But if you show you mastered math at UG level, it's good enough

with a lot of asterisks attached

[outer reef]

then when you apply, you have a robust collection of evidence with which to convince a given faculty member with whom you want to work that you’re prepared.

[cold tiger]

and motivated

[outer reef]

the very best applicants will have applications as i am describing, and i don’t think “i didn’t have access” is going to work. one can always do a reading course.

[cold tiger]

Believe it or not, in my UG, complex analysis was not offered

[outer reef]

ok?

seems totally irrelevant to what i’m saying lol

[cold tiger]

given how my roommates and I all ended up at, say, not bad schools, I'd say we're living counterexamples

[outer reef]

.

[cold tiger]

complex analysis is considered to be a part of UG curriculum here

[outer reef]

idk what you are trying to say.

[cold tiger]

they added it after I left -.-, I wonder why

anyway,

the very best applicants will have applications as i am describing
I disagree with this

[outer reef]

why?

[cold tiger]

sometimes it's just not possible

you can't take a course on Alg Topo if it's not even a thing

[outer reef]

sure, and such people are likely not among the very best applicants.

[cold tiger]

I don't know where that implication comes from

[outer reef]

empirical evidence

and my personal knowledge of numerous graduate students attending top 6 math phd programs in the US.

[shadow bobcat]

This is not always true either some schools have hard limits on how many reading courses you can do for credit

[outer reef]

i don't think it is productive to pretend like the competition isn't as stiff as it is.

[outer reef]

see #graduate-applications message.

[tacit lark]

just try to make the most of the school you attend and convey that in you're application.

[outer reef]

agreed.

[smoky jetty]

Wait you can do reading courses for credit?

[shadow bobcat]

Yeah at my school youcan do them for up to ( I think) 9 credit hours total towards your degree. They count towards your electives 7 required math electives

[main marlin]

You're not entirely wrong. However, the situation is more nuanced to be explicated in a Discord chat.
There are (rare) undergrads who take an unusual number of graduate courses and form a niche interest in math research, and of course, they're on a faster track compared to other students and outstanding on paper. Despite that, it is still an imperfect measure to rank and accept an applicant because grad school doesn't always work like that, as I already said here: #graduate-applications message.
In addition, it's not like there's a "formula" by which applicants are ranked. Taking advanced and graduate courses (if possible) is better than not taking, and the rigor of the courses taken is surely considered, but as one part of the whole application rather than a decisive factor.

[outer reef]

yes obviously recommendation letters are the most important thing…nowhere did i say otherwise.

i was also not suggesting that one should develop a research program as an undergrad. that is extremely rare, as you say. i only meant that coursework can be a tool to convey substantial mathematical maturity to an admissions committee and/or professors you indicate on your application that you’d like to work with.

[wise echo]

keep it math related please

[stone wagon]

What's considered a low GPA for math grad school?

[tacit lark]

Depends on the country, whether you mean masters or phd, and the schools you’re considering.

[stone wagon]

phd in the US, any school really

[torpid echo]

0 is a pretty low GPA

[stone wagon]

What's the maximum GPA that would be considered low then

[tacit lark]

Its at least 3.0

[void horizon]

https://www.csulb.edu/mathematics-statistics/graduate-programs

the minimum can be lowered to 2.5

it's only a master's though

[stone wagon]

Real fair enough

[outer reef]

depends on the school but probably 3.7 is fairly low for a phd program

some schools might do automatic rejections for gpa below a given threshold, but it’s difficult to know what that threshold is, or whether it exists.

but i’m quite confident no program would auto-reject e.g. a 3.7 gpa

[rocky dome]

Beginning the grind today

[stone wagon]

My total gpa is pretty high but I’ve got some Bs in more difficult math classes and hoping that won’t ruin chances

[shell kindle]

You should be fine

[grand palm]

General education classes dragging my GPA down 💀

[shell kindle]

Usually for grad school you will submit your major gpa

[rocky dome]

hm what is a standard/reasonable number of places to apply to

i have heard a range from basically being cocky to wasting tons of money applying everywhere

[shell kindle]

In the US I think 10-15 is the standard range

[rocky dome]

Yikes

that sounds like a lot of work lol

[shell kindle]

Yeah it is

[rocky dome]

Maybe it's different here

Never heard of people applying to that many here lol

[pulsar furnace]

I think I will only apply to 3-4 for masters tbh

[torpid temple]

For anyone that has experience with doing masters in canada, how important is your master's supervisor?

I had assumed that they are not too important, as I will only be probably working with them for 4 month during the summer

One of my profs told me that reaching out to potential supervisors in your field is important. But I dont currently have an area in math that I know for sure that I want to research; I am open to learning more things during my masters, and I enjoy most areas in pure math.

[weary acorn]

To kind of add to what I had said earlier, it will probably show a bit more maturity and reflect a bit better on you to admit to your prof these kinds of things and ask them for advice rather than worrying about appearing smart or something.

It will also probably make it easier for them to help you more efficiently.

I'm by no means an authority though so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

[torpid temple]

Yea, I was a bit confused because what he told me was the opposite of what I had researched through reddit. I have not thought of contacting supervisors and now it seems like I need to contact them as I am finishing up my application

[weary acorn]

I've also been given this advice. Not sure how great it is. It might also be a regional thing.

Might be worth asking what kind of email they think you should be sending to reach out to people?

[main marlin]

I don't know about Canada, but in my experience, it's more appropriate to email after acceptance.

[weary acorn]

That makes sense

[torpid temple]

Hmm, yeah, I had thought that too, but apparently in Canada you get chosen by the supervisor to get accepted. I will talk a bit more with the prof, thanks everyone

[inner grove]

I did my MS there! I loved the program

[rocky dome]

Hm, any advice: I really enjoy a certain topic (well, homotopy theory and algebraic topology) but it feels daunting picking stuff for phDs, since e.g. if I look at advisors' papers I don't understand much at all, nor the motivation for studying those things too well

Like, it feels very hard to choose more specialised thing

Is this just a normal thing that people aren't too sure what to do and chatting with advisors etc once you've begun is what helps you narrow stuff down? hm

[main marlin]

It's normal

[outer reef]

yes. i've heard this put succinctly as, "you learn more math in your first year of grad school than in all of your previous education."

it's difficult to overstate the amount of math that you can only pick up from seminar talks, informal conversations, etc.. pretty much nobody has the opportunity or time as an undergraduate to be immersed in a math community that facilitates this.

also, a good advisor will help their student navigate the array of "specialised things," since indeed it is not feasible to read (much less understand) every paper on arxiv that catches your eye.

[rocky dome]

Sure, thank you

[past plume]

@rocky dome the point of the phd is to specialize, you're not expected to have super specific knowlege of areas of study before you start. Just even knowing your general area of interest, like you said alg top and homotopy theory, its a pretty good point to be at. you can focus your phd search to schools that have a good number of people working in those areas

[rocky dome]

OK cool thanks

[bright sonnet]

Complex analysis was not offered for the past three years at my uni until this semester, and apparently it was only added because someone needed it to graduate. According to my graduation requirements, that's a course we need to take, but there's been mixed signals so far.

The student that needed it was approved by his graduate advisor to substitute another course in for Complex Analysis, and then something iffy happened with higher-ups and he was forced to take it.

One of my friends had also substituted the class and got approved, except he was told to petition a higher-up to substitute a class for it.

I asked the same graduate advisor what I should do about that class and he flat-out told me that Complex Analysis was not a requirement to graduate.

[outer reef]

knowing how to calculate contour integrals is not particularly useful for most mathematicians…probably everyone needs to know the basics at some point but i’ve never understood why some think it’s essential to formally take a contour integral course early in one’s education.

in my experience, for a given area of math, the typical intro complex analysis course is either irrelevant or glaringly inadequate.

[shell kindle]

Complex analysis is not necessarily a course on contour integration

[cold tiger]

writing a compiler is useful for almost no one doing CS, doesn't mean it's not necessary. The point is not to use it regularly, but to do it at least once, so that the next time, it won't be the first time.

I still feel ashamed that I formally have a Math degree, yet haven't taken Complex Analysis.

[waxen spire]

So, currently writing up my apps, one thing I see is the sort of "typical PhD admits have completed a few semesters of this, one semester of that, etc." Would it be a bad idea to list a few of those relevant courses from my transcript in my resume with course descriptions?

[shell kindle]

What's the point of that

[waxen spire]

I feel like from course title alone (which is all that's listed on the transcript) it's not always clear what a course is about

[pulsar furnace]

If they really need to know, they could ask for the syllabus / look online for it, no?

[waxen spire]

I suppose they could

[shell kindle]

Listeing courses you've taken on your CV/resume is fine if it's in a relatively compact form, but adding descriptions is too much

[pulsar furnace]

But I don't think they'd need that anyways

[shell kindle]

Do you have any examples of where the course title might not be clear

[waxen spire]

Now that I think about it, there's really only one and I'm 99% sure I'm gonna talk about that course in my SoP, so it's probably not necessary

I appreciate the help

I guess a typical resume is 1-2 pages?

[shell kindle]

If you can keep it to one page I think that is preferred

[waxen spire]

That's good to know, thanks

My goal for the weekend is to finish that resume so one of my letter writers can look over it before he writes his rec

[outer reef]

many programs require a complete list of courses separately from the CV, in which it would be appropriate to add descriptions.

[smoky jetty]

Any suggestions about how to organize grad school apps?

this google doc of statements and various prompts is getting unweildy

[prime robin]

sorry is this the GPA of all math courses one've taken or of all the courses?

[outer reef]

idk

[smoky jetty]

Hmmmmmmm is the fact that I never took diff eq gonna bite me in the ass

some places seem to "require" it but idk how strong that requirement is

I mean I can work my way around the basics I think + I've taken more advanced courses (honors real analysis, taking a course in manifolds right now)

hopefully I'm not dead in the water

[shell kindle]

No it will be fine

[smoky jetty]

that's my thought

[tacit lark]

I had a folder for each school. I also used a spread sheet where i kept track of deadlines, whether i requested the letters of rec for that program, whether my recommenders submitted their letter etc

[smoky jetty]

yea I have a similar sheet going right now

[smoky jetty]

School list finalized, list of schools sent to letter writers, did some more edits to my personal statement

😵‍💫

(speaking of personal statement would anyone be willing to proof read a draft of it 🥺 👉 👈 )

[past plume]

Your profs / letter writers will

[cold tiger]

I'm sure no one's gonna say no just because you didn't take a course. Worst case you are required take it once you got in, but that's all ig

[wheat prawn]

Im applying to phd programs for next year and have pretty good grades previously. However, this semester I am abroad and I just scored fairly poorly on a midterm in elementary number theory. I am afraid that I could possibly get a bad grade in the class but I am still doing very good in my other classes. Is it possible that I would get rescinded for this?

[main marlin]

In short: No.

[cold tiger]

^

[wheat prawn]

ok cool

[shadow bobcat]

Not exactly true, my friend just went to an reu and the school had someone on the admissions committee come and talk to the participants about PhD admissions. This person said that if you hadn't taken some certain courses she would not vote to admit you, none of the courses were differential geometry though

[tacit lark]

Its differential equations

I wouldnt worry about it. Plenty of students dont take it.

[shadow bobcat]

The only two they gave that stuck out to me were topology and complex analysis

[smoky jetty]

yea I'm getting them to do it as well

[cold tiger]

If someon hasn't take Real Analysis or Multivariable Calculus, it's very hard to take them seriously. Of course I didn't mean that. It's very specific in this case, a course on diff eq. And I expect it to be something more exotic, like geometrical techniques, and not just Cauchy-Lipschitz,

[hushed lion]

Hi everyone, I know this is the wrong channel to ask this question but don't know which channel is appropriate to ask it. I'm interested in Fourier analysis, Z transform, and Laplace transform I want get more advanced and dive more in the subject. But I don't know how, anyone has advice on where to look?

[shell kindle]

#advanced-lounge or #math-discussion or #book-recommendations

[stoic jewel]

UofT asks "Where would you rank UofT in terms of preference among your top choices", and the honest answer is 2, so I'm thinking does this really affect things? I wasn't asked this question before and I'm just confused about what to do.

I mean should I put 1 (2 is close to 1 anyways)

[worthy apex]

If you put 1 and they accept you, they'll be really angry if you decline them.

[undone yacht]

I think you overestimate the amount of feelings people in a committee would have about this 🙂

[stoic jewel]

like I'd be blacklisted? Tbh my top choice is roughly the same level of being competitive as UofT, so it's a reach school anyways. Maybe I'll just put 1

this is the only school ive applied to that asked this question.

[undone yacht]

1 or 2 does not matter, probably 2 seems more sincere most of the times

[stoic jewel]

I see, thank you! I hope it doesn't affect the outcome lol

[undone yacht]

what is really bad is the people that are good and have choices, and say it, they will just be cancelled typically since they do not show any specific interest to come to that particular place

[stoic jewel]

Are you saying it is more OK to put 2 if I do not look that competitive xd

[undone yacht]

i say it is natural that there could be a place or two that could be better

if somebody applies to a "low tier" place and states it is their top choice without any motivation, then nobody takes that serious

that is why i say 1 or 2 does not really matter, just clearly state why

[stoic jewel]

oh okay, I mean UofT states on their website that they're #1 uni in Canada, so...

okay thanks I think I will just look at their research areas more closely

also want to post something here

I'm looking for institutions in Canada that do Harmonic Analysis(specifically Fractal stuff). I found British Columbia and UWaterloo. But these are the only 2 I found (or I have not looked hard enough), so I'm also including dynamics as my interest as well, and I found UofT, Mcgill and possibly some other places in Montreal. I want to ask if anyone knows any place in Canada that have people doing Fractal geometry(even if it is just one person). I would really appreciate any input on this!

[outer reef]

http://www.math.toronto.edu/tiozzo/ for instance

but given that you’re already aiming to study such a specific topic, i imagine you have an advisor who should be able to answer this question?

[stoic jewel]

not really, my previous prospective advisor is in Argentina and now I plan to go to Canada instead. He only knows two people in British Columbia and as I said I already applied there.

But thank you I will take a look now

[stoic jewel]

this is dynamics though, I was looking for people doing Fractal geometry

[outer reef]

i know

in a given (non-US) country it is generally hard to find many people working in a given niche area.

[stoic jewel]

[outer reef]

idk anything about fractal geometry but the only person that comes to mind (semyon dyatlov) is in the US.

[stoic jewel]

Yeah thank you regardless, also the link you sent does look good, I visited the Technion recently and something on the website looks vaguely similar to what I was doing there, so this is helpful if I apply there

[outer reef]

sure. but you should really ask people working in these areas for advice on where to apply.

e.g. anyone at the technion who you worked with.

[wheat prawn]

this situation is worse than I thought and now it is possible that I might fail the class. Does that fair much worse for my chances of getting rescinded?

I still have another semester so I'd imagine it wouldn't reflect too poorly if I do better in all my other classes but nevertheless.

[outer reef]

do you mean rejected?

[wheat prawn]

It would not show up on my transcript yet because I'm applying this semester

[outer reef]

i see

can you just drop the class then?

[wheat prawn]

I am abroad currently so I need the class to make the minimum credits for my visa

[outer reef]

idk, my impression (im not well-informed about such things) is that US programs are only checking whether you graduated or not

otoh some programs request grades from this semester, no?

[wheat prawn]

They might but the deadlines are all before my grades even come out

But maybe

[outer reef]

well they can ask you to upload a document after your main application is submitted.

for instance i think princeton requires this.

[wheat prawn]

Yeah I guess so

[outer reef]

anyway i don't see the point in worrying about this if the only alternative is being deported...

[wheat prawn]

Yeah fair enough. And I haven't failed yet so I suppose it's not worth it.

[outer reef]

i quite doubt you'd have your offer rescinded.

at least for a program in the US.

i think typically the math departments don't even look at this transcript--the university just wants to ensure that its graduate students actually have bachelor's degrees.

but this is not based on some representative sample, just a few examples i know of.

[wheat prawn]

Ok cool

[undone yacht]

https://www.acenet.edu/News-Room/Pages/Carnegie-Classifications-to-Make-Major-Changes.aspx

[smoky jetty]

ELI-undergrad what does this actually mean

[tacit lark]

So you already applied to schools and they won't see your grades for this semester? Unless they specifically ask for them or you send your transcripts when you want to commit. I've never met anybody in this situation so I'm not exactly sure.

why are you going to fail?

[cold tiger]

In that case, it would affect only very little, if at all. If they accept you, they can make a conditional offer, but from what I've seen, it's more conditioned on GPA than any specific courses.

If grades are sparkling enough, they can give an unconditional offer

[shell kindle]

Not much tbh

[hidden sierra]

So theres this CS phd whos willing to sponsor me for a quantum computing phd once i finish my bachellors (next year if i try hard it, otherwise first quarter of 2025).

Main issue is i dont actually think i have enough of a foundation to make it worth it

[tacit lark]

Congrats

[tacit lark]

What do you mean

[hidden sierra]

I mean my bachellor is not worth jack shit so I have to make due with learning stuff by myself

like im currently working in my second publication

but i have no support from the university

for example I have not taken a course in physics

theres none in my entire major

nor calculus

theres barely any linear algebra

[tacit lark]

Hasn’t the school that admitted you seen your transcripts

[hidden sierra]

I have sent the submissions to the director of the major

for what im doing

and he hasnt answered an email in which I asked for harder courses

and that was like a month ago

im not even talking higher difficulty

[tacit lark]

At the end of the day it about what you know, not what your school offers courses in. If you’re writing publishable (in reputable venues) papers. Im sure your fine.

[hidden sierra]

im talking being allowed to take physics

[tacit lark]

You’re not really being clear. From your original message it seem like youre saying you were admitted to a phd program, but you’re not sure you have the right background. Shouldnt the program that admitted you know what background you have?

[hidden sierra]

no

im talking I have a professor who has a PHD in CS, this guy offered to sponsor me to do a PHD in quantum computing once i finish my bachellors

[tacit lark]

Why would he offer to sponsor you without knowing your background

[hidden sierra]

well he has read what i submitted for publishing

[tacit lark]

Well thats what matters

Not whether your school lets you take a physics course

What you know and can do matters more than what your transcript says.

[hidden sierra]

i just feel like theres giant gaps in my knowledge

for what I would want to do in such a program

[tacit lark]

Ya in grad school you have time to fill in those gaps

I dont exactly know your situation, but if you’re consistently writing publishable papers and profs are impressed by it youre probably fine…

A lot of research is learning as you go and not taking formal courses for every thing that comes up in your research

[hidden sierra]

mmm

I guess I should just take a look at simulations of stochastic models, wait I need a background in analysis for that?

those are the sort of doubts I have

[tacit lark]

Sure. Try to take those courses as an undergrad, but if you cant it isnt the end of the world lol.

Plenty of profs in cs and adjacent fields dont come into grad school with analysis, algebra, etc and learn it on their own and/or take classes during grad school.

[hidden sierra]

yeah so pretty much what im doing

[tacit lark]

Ya it isnt that uncommon

Its obviously not ideal, but it isnt the end of the world. People start in different places in terms of grad school.

Im trying to read papers that use a decent bit of algebra that I am not familiar with. I just found a book and started learning it. Its how it goes.

[hidden sierra]

i think ill have time to finish chapter one of baby rudin this weekend tbh

i just gotta get down to the construction of R using dedekind cuts

and some intermediate result from the Schwarz inequality

[cold tiger]

iirc, you don't need so much physics for quantum computing, depending on what topics you'll be working on

it's not uncommon to not have everything required for PhD tho, you fill in the gaps as you go, hopefully one day you finally get the grip of it

[vestal swan]

I just finished an undergraduate thesis on developing quantum algorithms for NP-hard problems and I didn’t have a working background on quantum physics going into the thesis; you naturally pick up the necessary material as you progress through the research

[urban heath]

What's a good alternative word to "struggling," as in like really working through practice problems to learn and absorb the material?

[undone yacht]

The funding situation and "prestige" of universities can change in 2025 (both up and down) but hard to know in advance I guess. So, don't assume an R1 will be R1 when you graduate and vice versa for R2. Some places/people find these classifications very important.

[cold tiger]

suffering 😄

[void horizon]

"grappling" "wrestling"

[hidden sierra]

true

[smoky jetty]

Is anyone in this server at UChicago and specifically able to answer questions about the Joint Math/CS program?

I just have some questions about the personal statement for that program

specifically from this page:

To be assisted in making the decision, the Graduate Admissions Committee of the secondary program may request from the applicant additional materials in accordance with customs and rules of its department.
what secondary materials?

[inner grove]

I think your best bet is to just email them about what secondary materials are expected

[outer reef]

wouldn’t you find out in the event that they request them from you?

[tacit lark]

Obviously

Prob just curious and or wants to be able to prepare the materials.

[stoic jewel]

Hi everyone, I am applying to uOttawa and I see there's a choice of "Master's with Thesis" or "Master's with Project/Paper", but for the thesis option I have to specify a supervisor already when I apply but I don't want to do that. I want to ask has anyone done a Masters with Project and does anyone know what is the difference between these two?

[outer reef]

but they won’t know until they read the application?

“what aspect of my application do you plan to want further clarification on?”

[tacit lark]

Ok lol

[outer reef]

unless the question is literally just..what is required to apply to each department individually

which can be found by just reading the respective department websites

[tacit lark]

This doesn’t mean that they dont know what they may want. It could be something like for some applicants they also like to see their fall semester grades.

There could be a list of commonly requested additional materials

[outer reef]

sure

but “commonly requested” is i think much different from “commonly requested conditionally given that some additional materials are requested”

so id say that unless you have an extremely unusual application, it’s not worth preparing any extra documentation for whatever edge case in advance

[smoky jetty]

how do I make the "why this school" portion of my personal statement / SOP sound genuine

I'm saying things that are true

that the work XYZ profs are doing sounds interesting and I'd love to work with and learn from them

but idk

it sounds fake

and I mean I obviously don't know if I'll be successful in (or even stick with) that field

[outer reef]

if the rest of your application supports the idea that you have a good reason to find those people interesting, then that is plenty.

[smoky jetty]

and I've never done proper research in that field

[smoky jetty]

hm ok

[outer reef]

in fact more probably comes off as disingenous

also

[smoky jetty]

yea I mean I'm not going to say something like "oh yes I really liked this paper relating the coefficients of single and double schubert polynomials"

[outer reef]

yes don't do that

[smoky jetty]

because I don't know what those things are

[outer reef]

also you risk mischaracterizing it

[smoky jetty]

yea

not going to do that

[outer reef]

i think the statement of purpose is like a prose CV

you just say what you did

[smoky jetty]

but I'm kind of saying like "this person says they work in algebraic combinatorics and I've said I like algebraic combo so they would be cool to work with"

[outer reef]

and then "these things have led to me being interested in X"

[smoky jetty]

but that feels super surface level

like I'm just finding keywords and matching them up

[outer reef]

i mean ideally you'd say more than "algebraic combo"

[smoky jetty]

(which Is sort of am)

[smoky jetty]

ok right but again how can I

[outer reef]

yeah i mean these essays are idiotic in general

theyre necessarily superficial

[smoky jetty]

I mean ok I read a small note on Schubert varieties

but honestly

if someone asked me some questions about them

I'm dead in the water

or I saw some cool presentations on finite field kakeya

but I don't remember results from that presentation

so idk how I'd "say more than algebraic combo"

that's sort of the issue

[outer reef]

well you wouldn't say it, but you could say like "i took X course with Y prof and initiated a reading course on Z. i am therefore interested in pursuing W in grad school, and would love to work with profs A,B,C"

where W is some broad thing

i guess the message is that you don't need to be super myopic with the examples you present

[smoky jetty]

"i took X course with Y prof and initiated a reading course on Z. i am therefore interested in pursuing W in grad school
I have this already yea

and would love to work with profs A,B,C"
this is what I am stuck on, saying why I'd like to work with A, B, and maybe even C

[outer reef]

dont say why

[pulsar furnace]

I don't know that mine is actually good at all, but that's basically what I did. I mentioned my summer research, courses I'm taking related + reading I've done outside of courses, and what broadly I am interested in studying in my masters

[outer reef]

my point is that your applicaiton should convey why

[smoky jetty]

then what should I say when prompts say "why this school"

[outer reef]

otherwise this boils down to explaining "i like math because"

idk just name the profs lol

[smoky jetty]

🙃

ok

[outer reef]

like

what else is there

(as you rightly pointed out)

[smoky jetty]

idk but having nothing else there feels empty

[outer reef]

are you referring to like, short answer prompts?

[smoky jetty]

no, my personal statements

[outer reef]

or just general long-form SOP prompts that say "please say why here"

[smoky jetty]

yea

[outer reef]

yeah then you don't really need to say much imo

[smoky jetty]

for example, Ohio State

These prepared documents serve to provide our admission committee with a narrative overview of the applicant's mathematical trajectory. Their primary focus should, therefore, be to enumerate and describe any evidence of mathematical ability and mathematical promise. The information included in the documents should be well-organized, comprehensive, informative, specific, and relevant.
indicating why you want to study mathematics here, what has brought you to this decision, and what are your goals in the future.

[outer reef]

well like

[smoky jetty]

My initial plan was to have a whole paragraph on "why this school" for each school I'm applying to

[outer reef]

you need to keep in mind that math is quite small

[smoky jetty]

cause I sort of had that for REUs

but that was easier since I could talk about specific projects in addition to profs

[outer reef]

and if you're applying for algebraic combinatorics, say

then there are not actually that many schools

so a school having an algebraic combinatorics group is already a very good reason for you to want to attend

[smoky jetty]

yea

[outer reef]

like

there are two outcomes

either the admissions committee shows your application to the profs you list, or they don't

if they do, then if your application conveys your general interest/qualification in the field, the prof will understand "why" you want to work with them

and then will just comment on the application based on their perception of your qualifications, their interest in accepting students, etc. etc.

[smoky jetty]

hm ok

that helps a little

[outer reef]

if they don't, then you don't want to spend 20% of your essay being like "i love prof Y"

[smoky jetty]

how do I know if they do or don't before I submit the essay lmfao

[outer reef]

(different admissions committess do different things in this respect)

you don't

[smoky jetty]

incredible

I figured though

[outer reef]

my point is

being succinct is optimal in either case

[smoky jetty]

ah ok

[pulsar furnace]

Depending on your connections with profs, they could perhaps ask (and recommend) for you.

(+ if they are young they are probably accepting students)

[smoky jetty]

I don't really have any connections with profs specifically in algebraic combo

just never got into that circle here at UIUC

for one reason or another

or do you mean connections with profs at other schools?

[outer reef]

because if the prof does read it, they don't need to see some nonsense about how you fell in love with algebraic combinatorics...they will read your transcript & background & recommendation letters and very quickly assess the extent to which you've actually put time into learning algebraic combinatorics/math in general.

and a bunch of fluff is often a turnoff i think

profs are busy

[pulsar furnace]

For instance, you did an REU, correct? Would one of your supervisors perhaps know someone you're interested in working with?

[smoky jetty]

nope, already asked

[pulsar furnace]

[smoky jetty]

he's very very much into the group theory side of things (my REU was very group theoretic)

which wasn't bad but I don't want to do group theory lol

[outer reef]

don't worry about this

i dont think nepotism works this way

like it can help but

at best you will just have one person advocating for you in the admissions

and if that person isn't on the admissions committee, that may just be meaningless

what actually happens is that if the person reading your application knows the recommendation letter writer, they will just contact the writer and ask them what they "really" think