graduate-applications

[undone yacht]

We have problems getting enough TA at my department (Sweden)

[tacit lark]

Not really many people do it

[daring osprey]

r u at cam?

[tepid forum]

ya

[tacit lark]

ya there is churchill, rhodes, and some others but they're very very competitive

[tepid forum]

most people here that do masters just get a loan that covers tuition fees and that's about it

in maths ppl often do an integrated masters where you get bachelors/masters in one qualification and you're still on the undergrad loan scheme

ngl the financial situation for intls over here is pretty bad generally, not much funds for undergrad/masters and usually only a few places for PhD

[lyric robin]

Does anyone have any advice for interviews for US math PhD programs? What to expect and how to prepare?

[torpid echo]

For math?

If so, one of my friends actually had an interview where they asked them like math questions, but I had multiple and all they ever did was ask me if I had questions about the program and stuff like that. It basically seemed like “you made it past the first round, now we need to narrow it down more so we want to just know a bit more about you”

Also how interested I was in their program, how it ranked to my other choices, etc

So honestly, they weren’t anything to worry about, but maybe other ppl had technical interviews and want to chime in?

[smoky jetty]

asking math questions sounds annoying lol

when you apply you send transcripts so presumably they can see if you can do math or not

so why ask math questions on an interview

[tacit lark]

I only had one interview for math and it was similar to @torpid echo’s experience. Except They also asked me to explain some of the research i mentioned in my SOP in depth.

[sudden shuttle]

They def would ask about prior research

[hot wadi]

what about an undergrad but in cs

but having rec letters that say that i can do real analysis/abstract algebra and topology

?

[tropic shoal]

true

[worthy apex]

Just to double-check, if a school has a Jan 1 deadline, can I submit the application tomorrow?

It's late at night on Dec 31 and I, uh, still have a ways to go to make some more progress

[ocean kiln]

Have interview emails already started going out ?

The only email I've received from grad schools is Duke saying that I should look out for my mental health

[lyric robin]

I apologize for any stress that may have caused. I was asking out of curiosity since I saw that some schools do interviews. Maybe I should take a break from all this and enjoy winter break while it lasts

[ocean kiln]

Haha no worries

No stress caused at all

[tacit lark]

Itll probably be tougher.

[hot wadi]

tougher than what

[tacit lark]

Than if you did math

[worthy apex]

Writing SoPs makes me want to cry

Why is the grad school admissions process so stressful

[tacit lark]

I just read some examples of SOPs then thought of what I wanted to say and wrote an outline then added details.

I spent a decent amount of time revising though

[tacit lark]

Bc its competitive and most people want to get into good schools

[worthy apex]

I'm fine with it being competitive, I just hate writing essays

That's the stressful part

[tacit lark]

Whats so stressful about it

It doesnt have to be a masterpiece

I liked being able to talk about my interests, and why I am prepared, would be a good fit for the school etc

Its the only part of the app where you can express yourself

[worthy apex]

But if it's not and someone writes a better essay that talks more about why they like math and it's better than my reasons for liking math then I won't get in and all because I'm a shit writer and it has nothing to do with my ability or interest in the subject

[tacit lark]

Well itll only get worse with postdoc/faculty apps and grant apps

[worthy apex]

Yeah but once I get into a PhD I won't have to worry about postdoc apps for another five or six years

And grant apps I can just talk about the research, I don't need to sell them on myself as a person

[tacit lark]

Every prof ive talked to made SOP not be a huge deal

I can send you mine if you want it was good enough

[worthy apex]

I mean hopefully letters are more important than SOP

[tacit lark]

I dont think it will break a tie unless someone writes a masterpiece i guess. They just want to get a sense of you and your interests. Its not deep.

Of course letters are more important than SOPs lol

I think youre overthinking SOP the fact that its kinda vague makes it stressful but it isnt that deep.

[vestal swan]

I view the SOP as your chance to show the admissions committee that you’re passionate about what you do and why the specific department would be a good fit for you

In saying that, I should start writing mine soon for compsci

[tacit lark]

Are you applying this cycle?

Most of my apps were due december 15th

[vestal swan]

I’d be applying for 2023-2024

I’m finishing up my undergrad studies this year and then I’d be applying around September 2023

[worthy apex]

In my experience, there's a large batch due december 15, but that's just the first batch. There's also a Jan 1 batch (eg Brown), a Jan 10 batch (eg UMass), a Jan 15 (eg UConn) batch and a late January batch (eg SUNY Binghamton), plus a few that let you submit anytime before like mid-April.

[mystic jungle]

Yes, it says it's less "ridiculous"

[stark summit]

I can’t stop thinking I’ll get rejected everywhere 😖 I feel grossly under qualified

[vestal swan]

that's me everyday 😔

[tepid forum]

with university applications I've always been confident until immediately before decisions when it switches to the other extreme and suddenly I'm unconsolable

[worthy apex]

I've had multiple panic attacks about it in this channel, so at least you're not alone.

[tepid forum]

on the bright side I've only got to send off 3 more applications, but on the negative I think I'll have to do an interview for all of my UK choices

[wispy timber]

Do directed readings go in my CV? This was an unofficial drp so it’s not in my transcript.

[candid quarry]

Yes

[tacit lark]

I didnt put directed readings in my cv

I did if it was a research project

[past plume]

I did

[smoky jetty]

Even unofficial ones?

The person I'm doing an unofficial DRP with said that it wouldn't go on the CV

[tacit lark]

Id listen to them

[wispy timber]

This is an unofficial drp + some computation stuff with weird homotopy things so I’ll probably ask the professor if I should

[smoky jetty]

TBH idk what I would put in a CV that isn't already on my resume

[wispy timber]

I have a lot of physics stuff in my resume so i feel that I have to make a CV to fit the math stuff

[raven sun]

Generally the advice I have heard the younger you are the more stuff makes sense to put on a CV

bc anything above coursework shows something as an undergrad

whereas if you're applying for postdocs having something like "I read abt math :)" is unimpressive for obvious reasons

[inner grove]

As someone that's been rejected everywhere multiple times, it's not the end of the world

[tropic shoal]

How should a resume submitted to master's apps be different from a normal resume?

[candid quarry]

The world is so unfair

[shadow bobcat]

For REUs my advisor said put anything you've done, are doing, and will do next semester even awards that sound insignificant like dean's list anything that makes you stick out from other college students

[tepid forum]

i have no backups if I don't get into any phds xdd

[undone yacht]

There are Ph.D:s starting pretty much all the time. Where applications can open up any time during the year

[tepid forum]

ya I could look in continental Europe too

i've only looked at uk + us so far

idk if I have unrealistic expectations thinking I'll get into at least a few out of 15

[tacit lark]

you applied to plenty of realistic schools

unless you get very unlucky you should be ok

[rapid dawn]

is it bad if the person I'm most interested in working with at a school is an assistant professor?

[torpid echo]

They might not be tenure-track, so it’s not great

[rapid dawn]

I think they are tenure track, but I know that doesn't mean they'll get tenure

[chilly turret]

from a students perspective, what does are the implications if the professor you’re working with doesn’t get tenure

just the fact they don’t have the job security?

[torpid echo]

They go to another school lol

[rapid dawn]

Yeah the concern is they wouldn't get tenure and would leave the school

[chilly turret]

gotcha okay that’s what i figured

most graduate programs do interviews before acceptance right?

[torpid echo]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[chilly turret]

i feel like i’m at the stage where i’m stressing over everything that could go wrong

[tacit lark]

Not getting tenure is pretty bad

I wouldnt worry ab that

[rapid dawn]

you'll be fine

the impression I have is that it's fairly rare for a good candidate to get in nowhere

[chilly turret]

im not as concerned with getting in as much as i am with getting a TAship

maybe that’s an unhealthy perspective but id be so happy if that was the case

[tacit lark]

are you applying in the US?

i rarely ever hear of people getting in but not getting funding

most schools dont do that

[torpid echo]

I’ve heard it happen, but it’s really really rare. It’s basically a middle finger

[chilly turret]

yes

that’s also what my mentor told me, he said it’s unheard of for a native english speaking student to not get a TAship

[tacit lark]

I wouldnt worry about that at all lol

Thats not something i ever thought of

Most reputable programs fund all of their students

[shadow bobcat]

A lot of the schools have statements that are basically like we don't offer acceptance if we cannot fund a student or whatever

[chilly turret]

oh really okay that’s good news

[tacit lark]

Summer funding may be iffy but thats it

[chilly turret]

why does graduate school have so much funding compared to undergrad

is it just because of the lack of students

or because they use them to teach the undergrads

or maybe both

[tacit lark]

In math bc the grad students typically TA to earn their funding

[chilly turret]

gotcha okay

[shadow bobcat]

The school also needs grad students to pump out research and become well known so that they can earn prestige

[tacit lark]

In other fields teaching or faculty use grant money to fund students

[tacit lark]

Most grad math students arent pumping out many prestigious papers lol

[shadow bobcat]

No lol but I mean in general

[chilly turret]

i put all my eggs in one basket so i hope everything works out

[tacit lark]

Hopefully your basket consists of more than one phd program

[chilly turret]

hahaha i’m sure it will once i get to that point in my career

gonna have to spend some time over the next two years to look into programs and figure out what field i want to research in

or is that something i should already have an idea about finishing up undergrad?

[tacit lark]

Your worried about getting a TA ship and you haven’t even applied

[tacit lark]

You should have some interests but its ok if they change

[chilly turret]

i’ve applied to grad school

what did you think i meant?

[shadow bobcat]

It sounded like you were in undergrad still

[tacit lark]

Why do you need to spend time over the next two years looking into programs?

[chilly turret]

phd programs

i graduate undergrad in may, i’ve applied to grad school for the fall semester

[shadow bobcat]

Are you applying for masters?

[chilly turret]

yes

[shadow bobcat]

Oh well those are typically not funded in the US

[tacit lark]

Damn then ignore everything I said

[chilly turret]

is that not what grad school implies

or is that phd programs

[tacit lark]

No

[shadow bobcat]

No most people go straight to phd

[tacit lark]

In math most people go straight to phd

[chilly turret]

oh really i didn’t know that

[lone flax]

(in the us)

[shadow bobcat]

In the US

[tacit lark]

You have a bad mentor

They said theyre applying in the US

[chilly turret]

all four of the math professors in my school went masters and then phd programs

i thought that was typical

[shadow bobcat]

Most of the professors I know who did that did it as a kind of bridge to get into a US program easier

[tacit lark]

Basically everybody ik except for international students that did a masters outside the US went straight to phd

[chilly turret]

they’re from the united states

[shadow bobcat]

Like did undergrad in China did a masters for a year here then went phd at a better school

[tacit lark]

Or they are from the US but got funding to do a masters at Oxford/cambridge

[shadow bobcat]

But yes masters in math is not always beneficial in the US due to not typically being funded and actually has a chance of harming strong candidates

[chilly turret]

okay

it’s crazy to me that this whole time i thought it was normal to get a masters and then go into a phd program

i don’t feel prepared enough for a phd program so i’m happy with my decision but still

[tacit lark]

I went straight to PhD, many people here did and most people (except for internationals and rare circumstances) did too.

In The US the first two years of a phd is basically a masters

[chilly turret]

the masters program i applied to has a thesis track, so maybe that will benefit me going into a phd program

[shadow bobcat]

I know people usually end up retaking courses if they do masters then a phd in math

[chilly turret]

since the school doesn’t have a phd program

[shadow bobcat]

I didn't even know there were non thesis math masters

[chilly turret]

what does a thesis even entail anyway

[tacit lark]

Just a research project where you write a small book like document about the topic and the results

[shadow bobcat]

I'm doing one for undergrad but I assume masters thesis should show more promise but basically what Jek said

[chilly turret]

oh it seems kinda similar to a capstone project then

probably more technical but

[shadow bobcat]

Were you a math student in undergrad?

[chilly turret]

yes

[shadow bobcat]

The whole thing for you as a masters student will probably be to show that you have a lot of promise in research

[chilly turret]

okay, makes sense

[torpid echo]

I think even Masters theses don’t usually contain much original work

A lot are expository or contain only a tiny bit of original stuff. There’s a huge jump from masters thesis to PhD thesis

Also it might be that your professors masters were obtained during a PhD. If their masters is from the same school as the PhD (US school), then it’s probably a masters that’s given after taking qualifying exams

A lot of US programs give a masters partway through the PhD so if you don’t want to finish your degree you at least have a masters

[chilly turret]

this makes a lot of sense, i need to look into this

[ocean kiln]

I thought that the schools that do that are in the minority

[smoky jetty]

?

I thought that was standard

[frosty pond]

(United States) I'm still a couple years away from even applying, but just thinking ahead, if not accepted into any PhD program, would a masters program help an application? Or is it looked down upon?

I work full time supporting a family, so an REU is out of the question unless they have non-traditional hours, but working part time or on off hours with a professor/research group/a masters program are options I can see.

[undone yacht]

why would it be looked down upon? for many places it is a prerequisite

[frosty pond]

No idea, that's why I'm asking lol Since the traditional route is straight to PhD

[undone yacht]

Maybe in the US.

[frosty pond]

Ah yes, let me edit that

[glossy kindle]

are you really simultaneously eligible for masters programs and REUs?

[frosty pond]

I'm a second year undergrad, I'm just trying to plan ahead.

[tacit lark]

I dont think having a masters is frowned upon, but adcoms have higher standards for applicants with a masters.

[tepid forum]

do you mean just US masters or UK/European masters too?

[glossy kindle]

so you would do a masters for the research opportunities, because you aren’t getting them in undergrad due to your work situation?

a question for you to think about: would you be able to do research during a masters? you have serious time commitments already. maybe you are imagining that masters coursework plus research takes less time than an REU?

not to mention the possible monetary cost of a masters.

i’m also skeptical that reus are so important in phd admissions that it makes sense to do a masters just to add that line to your cv. you should get input from professors who know you well before you plan on something like this.

[frosty pond]

I'm planning on having this discussion with them in the Fall, especially regarding local research opportunities throughout the school year. I always appreciate other input though, especially from others who have recently gone through or evaluated the graduate application process.

The REUs I looked at require M-F 9-5 in-person. Currently I can do that a few days a week but not all 5 days a week, for that many weeks in a row. I also can't leave town for the summer. I can do nights, weekends, and remote just fine. By the time my schedule will allow me to attend M-F 9-5 consistently, such as for an REU, I would have graduated already.

If I don't get accepted into any PhD program after graduation I don't want to sit around for a year or two doing nothing, so my backup plan would be a masters program. Which led to my question, would a masters program help an application at all if not successful on first time applying for PhD programs.

I understand I'm thinking far ahead and on a borderline worst case scenario. It's just something I would like to plan for and not need, then need it and have to figure it out last minute.

[past plume]

Yes it would help but try applying to both phd apps and masters as backup of you don't think you'll get into any phd programs

Some schools allow you to submit the same application for phd and masters iirc

[frosty pond]

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind.

[smoky jetty]

dumb question but can paper publications go into honors / awards (this is for some online application)

[undone yacht]

why would a publication be considered an award? unless it won some kind of "best paper" award at some conference

[smoky jetty]

hm fair

was just curious

[half meadow]

If it's a peer-reviewed publication in an international research venue and there's no dedicated place in the form to list publications, then you might have to shoehorn it in somewhere that doesn't exactly fit the prompt. Whether "honors/awards" is the best shoehorn target is a different question ...

[smoky jetty]

Yea I should have done the rest of the application

they have a place where they ask for a list of publications

I was asking if that was the appropriate shoehorn

should have made that clearer lol

[rapid dawn]

The other thing is that any publications should probably be listed in your CV, and most places will ask for your CV.

[smoky jetty]

Oh true

[rapid dawn]

You should also mention publications alongside your research experience in your statements

Which is important since not every REU asks for a CV

[smoky jetty]

yea I have been

[raven sun]

TFW the MIT grad app doesn’t have a spot for a CV

[candid quarry]

They just make you remake your entire CV in their text boxes don't they

[raven sun]

essentially

[tepid forum]

what does it say?

[inner grove]

It's a generic letter

They do this every year. Source (Third time applying to UCI)

[mystic jungle]

Keep at it. Professor Lee told me he admires not the student applying to 10 colleges once but the persistent person applying to one college 10 times.

[ocean kiln]

Did anyone hear anything from Chicago yet?

[mystic jungle]

Neither me nor anyone I know did

[inner grove]

It's pretty much the only college I can reasonably attend

[quaint girder]

lol

just fell asleep on a submission deadline

i was going at it around 9

took a nap at 10?? and then woke up now and cant submit

[hot wadi]

pretty cool

[shadow bobcat]

Idk how you would apply 10 times though wouldn't that be 10 years of applying?

[smoky jetty]

hope you get it

[mystic jungle]

yes

[gritty ruin]

Try emailing the admissions people

[quaint girder]

nah its my fault i don’t deserve to apply

[tacit lark]

Its a good idea to not wait until the last minute

Thats unfortunate though

[waxen spire]

So, while writing a personal statement for an REU program, what exactly are the reviewers looking for?

[tacit lark]

https://web.ma.utexas.edu/users/demason/DeMason, Kenneth UChicago - Statement of Interest 20190214.pdf i found this useful

[waxen spire]

Thank

I guess a good way to think of it is an essay about why I should be accepted

[proper dirge]

https://operatortheory.org/directory.html found this cool website while searching for unis so thought i'd share

[shadow bobcat]

Can you upload new materials to an REU? I was recently made a ref for a journal so I updated my CV

[rapid dawn]

That was so fucking annoying

attention grabbing title
empty email except word attachment
word attachment says nothing of substance
Not phishing btw

Like it isn't, but holy shit how is that the format you decide to send things in

[shadow bobcat]

So what exactly should I write for a "mathematical statement" for an REU?

[raven sun]

what areas of math are you interested in, what exposure (especially beyond classes) do you have to them, what skills do you have that would be useful in research, have you engaged in research before, etc

[rapid dawn]

What's going on with UChicago? I've heard maybe they've sent out some offers but are staggering things strangely.

[worthy apex]

Wait offers are already being sent out?

[tacit lark]

They said maybe

[ocean kiln]

I know that they sent out offers, but where did you hear the staggering things part?

[half meadow]

From each applicant's point of view, "staggering" would seem to be indistinguishable from "send out a bunch of offers, and continue through our shortlist with new offers when someone we sent an offer withdraws" anyway, wouldn't it?

[quaint girder]

they are clickbaiting

[sharp stump]

okay so the past year of my life has been really hard with financial problems, death in family and my parents divorce. My grades have dropped with lifting up finical burdens for my family. This was in my 2nd year of my bachelor's and my grades went from a 5.5 gpa to 1.95. Yesterday I got an email for exclusion and I have a chance to state my case to stay in my degree
Has there been anyone in my position or close to and how did it work out for you?
Any advise for stating my case, and is there coming back from this ever because I did eventually want to get a masters maybe PhD degree.

[placid wagon]

anyone ever have to wait over a month to get a GRE general online exam score? i got my first one in 11 days but i still haven't gotten my score from my retake on dec 4th. i emailed [e-mail] 4 days ago but haven't gotten anything back yet.

[undone yacht]

Don't worry about it, just keep on working. Somebody with hardships during studies, that keeps on working is so much more impressive than somebody just getting great grades. I (and I know other people do) would pick somebody with that profile over somebody with good grades any day (I actively look for it when hiring students since it shows they will not break down when they meet obstacles, and will probably be better researchers and not just good test takers). It took me 12 years to finish my Ph.D. due to cancer, and I crushed all competition (e.g., was offered 2 postdocs without applying, got TT position on the first and only application I did). Good luck 🙂

[sharp stump]

Thank you so much for that message

Just been super stressed about it since I got an email saying I have to sit infront of a committee stating my case on why i should continue studying after failing 4 out 8 subjects in the last year.

From what I have heard from everyone apparently they are pretty understanding at least at my level where I am only in my 2nd year of my bachelors now

[undone yacht]

I do not think anybody there wants you to fail, so just state facts and show genuine interest to continue

[rapid dawn]

I think grades are less of a factor these days anyways. Grad schools (at least in the US) tend to have a minimum gpa to apply, but that should be achievable and I don't think it matters much beyond that.

I think admissions committees look more at what specific math classes you've taken and what grades you got in them. Like if you get a C- in linear algebra, but As in Galois theory, algebraic geometry, and measure theory, I don't think your linalg grade would really be held against you

[smoky jetty]

done with almost all of my REU apps 🤩

[ocean kiln]

Anyone have any tips for math PhD interviews?

[sacred estuary]

Or theoretical CS interviews?

[tacit lark]

Interviews vary based on the school and faculty

I dnt really have tips. Just prepare basic questions like “what are you research interests?”, “why do you want to attend the school?”, etc Make sure you know your research well bc they may ask ab it.

Hopefully the email invitations give some details ab what theyll ask. Its hard to prepare otherwise.

[torpid echo]

I am really really doubtful any university can afford to interview most of its applicants given how many applicants there are each year

Admittedly, I can’t make any concrete statement for duke, but I really doubt they’re interviewing most of their applicants

[rare herald]

Hello guys!
I was looking to continue my education in math in the branch of mathematical logic as a graduate.
Unfortunately, there aren't many universities in my country that offer that branch of mathematics.

I was wondering what are some universities that would be ideal for applying to, for continuing one's study in mathematical logic.

Thank you very much in advance for your help!🌺

[tacit lark]

Im pretty sure its selective

[tacit lark]

In the US i think Berkeley, notre dame, carnegie mellon, ucla are decent for logic.

[past plume]

CUNY has very active logic group

@rare herald

speaking as an outside observer

[polar dirge]

is it okay to submit my REU apps before my recommenders submit their letter

i feel like there should be no problem with that? but just want to make sure

[chilly turret]

i can’t speak for REU apps, but the way my grad apps worked was that the letters get attached automatically once submitted

so there was no need to me to wait on submitting my application

[past plume]

yes

[waxen spire]

Bleck I need to finish my apps as well

[worthy apex]

I'm working on my app to the University of Iowa and there's nowhere to upload a statement or a transcript or to request a letter of rec

[torpid echo]

Lol?

It might be after you submit the application

I remember there was one place that like only after I submitted whatever it gave me an option to upload my CV

[worthy apex]

Oh yeah I guess it does do that

Which is kind of weird but whatever

[sacred estuary]

Waterloo also had this kind of thing

[sterile bone]

It's after you pay and submit

It's weird

[worthy apex]

Yeah I noticed

[worthy apex]

I keep not getting applications in by their deadlines. My list of schools that I have applied to is:
Cornell
University of Michigan
University of Rochester
University of Connecticut
University of Mass.
University of Nebraska
SUNY Buffalo
University of Iowa
There are two deadlines I have left at the end of the month, SUNY Binghamton and Syracuse University. Is 10 schools enough? If not, does anyone know any PhDs with February deadlines?

[ocean kiln]

I think the average is 7-8 for math

[worthy apex]

Also how long do people normally need to wait to hear back from schools about interviews, follow-up questions, etc.

[ocean kiln]

Most schools don't do interviews from what I've heard. I've heard back from 2/15 schools for interviews

[worthy apex]

So it's just a matter of waiting to be either accepted or declined?

[tepid forum]

i think missouri columbia may have a late deadline

like mid feb

[tacit lark]

ik many people that applied to 10+

[tepid forum]

there's people on the forbidden sites that apply to like 20+

someone i spoke to was gonna apply to all T20 US and some in uk

[sacred estuary]

Where do they get the money for that?

[knotty marsh]

oppression of the working class and colonialism

[tepid forum]

idk they're an international student and probably very well-monied

oh and also some colleges at my uni seem to reimburse students for part of their phd applications

i doubt mine has the money for that (funny how collegiate university introduce this weirdness when we're at the same uni)

[smoky jetty]

Oh universities can subsidize PHD apps?

That could be nice

[shadow bobcat]

You can ask for a waiver

[mystic jungle]

You mean there's more than 1? I'm assuming gradcafe is fine

[undone yacht]

what forbidden sites?

[olive crater]

Yeah, there are 2 that are regarded as 'forbidden'.

As far as I know.

[hot wadi]

is one of them the name of a standardized exam

?

[tepid forum]

the other one

[tepid forum]

ya that one

[mystic jungle]

I already know about GRE, what is the 2nd?

[placid wagon]

what are they and why are they forbidden? I've never heard of them

[worthy apex]

gracschoolcafe, I assume, is one of them. It's the sort of website you go to if you want to feel like you don't have a shot at getting into grad school.

[tepid forum]

i don't think that forbidden site usually really has any more information than dates

[torpid echo]

Y’all looking at these websites are doing immense damage to your own psyche

[tepid forum]

nah its i doing the psyche damage with my 20 sockpuppets ready to post fake decisions

[chilly turret]

all this forbidden site talk has me confused but intrigued

as far as i was aware genesis library was the one we couldn’t mention

[mystic jungle]

You mean libgen? Why not?

[chilly turret]

since it’s piracy

breaks discord tos i believe

[smoky jetty]

people in this channel talking about the "forbidden sites" are talking about ones related to grad school apps

not textbooks

[chilly turret]

well i figured that much i just don’t know of them or why they’d be forbidden

[worthy apex]

Jan 15 too

[tepid forum]

i thought it was feb 15

[tacit lark]

i applied to 20 lol. 10 math and 10 cs. it was overboard for sure but i didnt know whether i wanted to do math or cs and all my letter writers were in math so i had no idea how competitive id be. Also, I applied to many reach schools. How did i get the money? Well i got probably 7 fee waivers and paid for the rest using the stipend from my REU.

basically i applied to all the reach schools i actually wanted to go to then like 4 'safeties'

it ended up being 18 but still a ton.

[molten frigate]

how much is the application fee in average?

[sterile bone]

I'd say average is 70usd

And on top.of that there's ets fees, for sending gre and such

[tepid forum]

most of mine were $75 or slightly more

one was like 40 bucks

and then Berkeley was $155

[sterile bone]

Yea the UCs are insanely expensive

[tacit lark]

I prob ended up being at most $1300

I had the money so i thought it was worth it to apply to any school i wanted.

But theyre still way too high

[tepid forum]

i spent half that (or half that in £) and still sort of regret spending that much lol

[tacit lark]

Im glad i applied to all the schools i did. Its just annoying bc the vast majority of the world cant afford that.

[worthy apex]

I wound up not submitting my GRE scores so I saved a ton of money

But I still took the GRE so I didn't actually save that much

[vestal swan]

Do most universities still require the GRE?

I dunno if I should still do it or if I should save my money and not do it

The schools I’ve looked at said that either the GRE is optional or they won’t take it into consideration when assessing PhD positions

[worthy apex]

There's some where it's optional, some where it's required, some where it's recommended, some that just don't take it into consideration at all.

[vestal swan]

Hmmm I’ll just have a look at the requirements for each of the universities I plan to apply for and assess if it’s worth taking it, thanks!

[placid wagon]

the ones that still require it are the vast minority it seems like. and even the ones that say they require it sometimes have a note on a page that says "not required for this cycle because cancellation" or whatever. some unis are lazy enough to have conflicting info on different pages so check around lol

[vestal swan]

that's reassuring to hear, thanks!

[shadow bobcat]

A lot of them have the not taking the GRE for upcoming cycle thing but then it's just like they keep changing the years

[placid wagon]

has anyone had their GRE general exam stuck in the office of testing integrity for like 6 weeks?

[tepid forum]

7/8 of mine did not, Texas A&M said I could apply anyway

a&m said they still want to use it to contextualise undergrad performance

if it was at all fair the math gre would be a free online test (or only have to pay the centre you sit it at) and this wouldn't even be a problem

[sterile bone]

But then how would ets bring home the big bucks

[tepid forum]

exactly however

a rich university could easily create its own test and offer it under more agreeable terms (Oxford/Cambridge/Durham have done this here with mat/step/tmua - mat at least is free) if they really wanted to

so I would guess they just don't need it enough to bother to doing that

[torpid echo]

You should message mod mail and get approval from mods. It’s probably fine, but mods tend to want to approve discord server invites as a general rule considering that the server has like 120k+ members and… well you can gues

[inner solar]

Hi guys

This is a long long shot but has anyone gotten into IMPRS (Max Planck) over here?

[mystic jungle]

I would delete and repost in one of the discussion channels, they fit the topic better as the course has nothing to do with grad admissions

[sonic surge]

Yes ask mods first before posting server invites

the above has been removed

[worthy apex]

I heard back from Michigan with some hard numbers. They'll decide between the 15th of February and the 15th of March. They got over 650 applicants and will interview 10% of them, and make offers to 5% of all applicants.

I really don't like those numbers.

[tepid forum]

seems standard odds for a top uni (at least in US) no? i think top in uk are ~10% offers

i think berkeley was like 4%

ig this is why you apply to so many so you have loads of rolls of this dice

[torpid echo]

This is the exact same as last year. Last year they said they had like 675 applications

[tacit lark]

I think so

[torpid echo]

Yeah

[worthy apex]

I mean yeah but there's probably people smarter than me who applied so I'm kind of fucked

[tacit lark]

Well you dont have to be the smartest lol

You have to be in the top 5% of applicants

Does it automatically remove messages with i q in it? As in the i q test lol.

It seems like it lol

But regardless there is more to an applicant than being smart.

[worthy apex]

Yeah, I know. I'm just deeply insecure about my general qualifications, and my ability to present what qualifications I do have in a positive manner.

[tepid forum]

youre probably the worst judge of your own expertise tho

seems quite normal to downplay your own achievements and big up others

[worthy apex]

Yes, but that's actually a perfectly valid point that should in theory reassure me and yet doesn't

[tepid forum]

fair enough

[worthy apex]

I'm just hoping my letters of rec are good

[tepid forum]

hopefully you will soon have some offers to reassure you

[worthy apex]

I'm banking on my professors liking me

[tepid forum]

as long as you don't then assume the universit(y/ies) just made a mistake xdd

[worthy apex]

I once had a professor say "I almost never give As, you need to do exceedingly well to get an A", then when he gave me an A, I sent him an email saying that I thought there was a mistake in the grading.

I will, um, not do that again moving forward.

[tepid forum]

what did they say lol

[worthy apex]

"This was not a mistake, you did very well in the class."

[tepid forum]

sounds like you're just underestimating yourself lol but I get it

you can know what you're thinking is stupid but still believe it more subconciously

[worthy apex]

Yeah.

And objectively, I know SoP isn't the most important thing, and even if it is I had proofreaders who said they liked it. I know I went above and beyond what my school requires and even offers. I know my professors who are writing my letters love me.

[tepid forum]

yeah SoPs seem to be a secondary factor at best and skimread at worst

[worthy apex]

But I'm still afraid that I'm competing against the kid who wrote a better SoP, had more opportunities and still went above and beyond, and whose professors are both more prestigious and like him better.

And in particular that that's everyone else applying

[tacit lark]

Youll probably be alright

[worthy apex]

Yeah, I know.

[tacit lark]

Most applicants are far from this perfect applicant youre describing.

[worthy apex]

I've also applied to lots of schools that are less well-known but still have very good research groups in commalg and alggeo, which is what I've tended to indicate that I wanted to do

Fingers crossed I'll get in somewhere

[tacit lark]

How many schools did you apply to?

[worthy apex]

8 so far but I have another 3 that aren't due until the end of the month

And if I don't get in this year I'll take a gap year and apply again. UIowa has a 1-year post-bacc program whose application deadline is after PhDs tend to respond to people, and my own school's math department hires an alumni every year to be the department's secretary for the next year

And I'll look for other opportunities too

[tacit lark]

I doubt a postbacc is necessary

[shell kindle]

This implies a yield of ~70%

[tacit lark]

I feel like Postbacc is for people w very little math coursework

[shell kindle]

Or closer to 80%

[worthy apex]

Honestly if I'm taking a gap year it's sort of a, well, I probably should do something that keeps me doing math, and a postbacc is that

[green ice]

as a low-income person I got into this mcnair scholars program which will pay for all my grad school apps when I get to that point

doesnt contribute much else financially but

it's nice I guess

[worthy apex]

I think there's also another program for HEOP students, and another program for students who get Pell grants

And other state-specific programs

If you're in a certain state in America and applying within that state and are low-income

[main marlin]

does publication topic matter a lot for grad school? i got an acm pub related to compilers but i want to apply to phd for scientific computing or applied math

[tacit lark]

I wouldnt say it matters a lot.

[worthy apex]

Just getting published puts you significantly ahead of the curve. I doubt they'll look at you and say "nah, this guy knows too much about compilers for us".

[ocean kiln]

Should I send a thank you email to my interviewers after the interview?

[wispy timber]

So getting published in experimental physics is going to help me get into grad school for math? Also, one of my professors said that I should not apply to math grad school until I approach math differently because I ‘approach math the same way a blind man tries to open a door.’ Does anyone have experience with this struggle?

[void gyro]

I feel like getting published in any field will be a boost. Regardless of the subject it strengthens your application and from the uni pov makes you a strong candidate capable of research.

but ofc your professor might be a better judge here

[tepid forum]

<@&268886789983436800>

[mystic jungle]

What got deleted?

[raw quail]

A message

Hope this helps 👍

[gritty stag]

Almost certainly. Getting a publication while you're in undergrad not only means you did meaningful enough research to warrant writing a paper about it but that you spent your time effectively enough to get it done quickly enough to count on these applications when you presumably came in not knowing much about what was going on. It shows general strengths in ability to do research and the large majority of applicants aren't going to have any at all.

[tacit lark]

I think it helps but i dont think it makes a huge difference if the field is completely unrelated. Research is lab sciences is so much different than pure math.

Publishing a paper in bio can say very little about your ability to succeed in pure math research.

[worthy apex]

If anyone else has applied to UMass, a lot of things they send goes to spam. Remember to check there!

[placid wagon]

just got an email from UCI

the clickbait is real lmfao

[dry umbra]

What are the basic things I should know when I'm applying for a masters program (pure math or applied math) in the US? (I'm not from the US)

like do I need GRE scores?

or do I need to have done undergrad research internships or something

[delicate kite]

Master's program are relatively uncommon unless you're applying for applied maths/stats

Most universities that I looked at suggested to apply for PhD, after completion of 2 years course work they grant you masters

Canada is much more suitable for masters if you have made up your mind for doing a masters

[tacit lark]

This depends on the uni

[tacit lark]

Nope

[dry umbra]

I see

I've heard it takes a very long time to get a canadian visa (slightly tangential point but still)

[dry umbra]

so that's only for PhD programs?

[tacit lark]

You dont need it for phd either.

[dry umbra]

I thought putting that stuff on your SOP or something would let you get into good PhD programs

perhaps it's only for physics PhD programs

[tacit lark]

People in math do them but you dont need it to get into a good phd program. Same with physics.

It can help a lot though.

It certainly isnt sufficient for getting into a good phd program.

[vestal swan]

do universities look favourably at teaching experience (specifically, as a university TA) for PhD programs?

by the time I do my PhD applications, I hopefully will be able to publish (at least one) a paper and would have about 4 years of teaching experience working with 2 universities -- so just figuring out how to balance out research + teaching experience

[tacit lark]

Yea

[vestal swan]

nice, thanks!

[urban heath]

I'm applying for M.S. programs during the Fall 2023 application period (programs start fall 2024). Would it be too early to ask past professors for a letter of rec? I guess it's more of like a "hey, would you be able to write a LOR for me in like 9 months?"

If it's relevant, I went to uni in California, and will be applying to California schools

[molten frigate]

you could ask but then remind them like a month or two before the deadline

[shadow bobcat]

If you graduate during a fall semester when do you usually start applying to schools?

[ocean kiln]

Most schools only admit people for the fall semester/quarter, so you'd usually just apply to schools as if you were graduating in the spring

[tepid forum]

Ask in June or July, or whenever your semester ends

[sharp stump]

Hi so i need to write some reasons on why i shouldn't be excluded from my uni. Could someone double check and read what I have written as I am quite nervous about it

[mystic jungle]

For: you ask people to double-check. Against: your carelessness causes you to post in the wrong channel, this is about admission and not remission

[inner solar]

Why are they excluding you bro

[tepid forum]

You should get into contact with your student association or student union (hopefully such things or things performing similar functions exist in the US...?) for help

They'll be familiar with the processes and the precise regulations

[worthy apex]

I finally got around to submitting my last two applications

Now, I wait

[tepid forum]

if I have an offer from a university that means I'm unlikely to go to some others that I've arranged an interview for - I should just cancel the other interviews so as to not waste their time right?

i've been thinking how to word the email lol

[torpid echo]

I did this

Or well

Basically this

Just thank them, then say you’ve received a different offer and are no longer interested

And ask to like cancel your application

If you’re not sure you want to cancel it, then don’t decline the interview

[void gyro]

Have unis started giving out math PhD offers(except UChicago)?

[tepid forum]

no this isn't a US university

but there's a few other US universities that seem to have given offers

[olive crater]

A few have in the US.

[tepid forum]

i think U of Washington is one (?)

[torpid echo]

Go UW! But also that’s surprising, that’s much earlier than last year

[olive crater]

Ohio State, NC State and Georgia Tech have also released some decisions.

[sterile bone]

UW or UWash?

WashU

Idr

The other one

I haven't seen anythinf about uw on the forbidden websites

[worthy apex]

Syracuse University and SUNY Binghamton

[tepid forum]

there is

[ocean kiln]

All I see are applied math people

I don't think they have sent out their pure math decisions yet

If they have, then I'm fucked because I thought it was a safety for me

[tepid forum]

oh I wasn't distinguishing between the two

fair enough then lol

[sterile bone]

Yea there's Washington university st louis and Washington university Seattle

[placid robin]

I'm a little bothered about something.

I'm a first-year Master's student, and I know that I'll likely have to apply to universities by the end of the year. How important is it to have had research experience before applying?

[inner sand]

US or Europe?

In the US I think it maybe matters but I’m not in that system

I got a PhD place in Cambridge U.K. without any

(If you are an algebraic geometry person I’m happy to chat about a project but it would be better if you can find one in the uni you are in because face to face contact matters)

[inner sand]

Well I did a thing over a summer

But was it really research?

Like no paper happened nor any original work

Just kinda read bott and tu

[molten frigate]

It's definitely a plus, but whether it's expected or not depends heavily on your field. In pure maths you aren't expected to have publications by the time you've finished undergrad or even a master's. You can also show experience by listing other activities such as REUs, workshops or talks.

[placid robin]

nodnod

[placid robin]

Thank you very much for offering to help! I'm more into probability and theoretical statistics, however.

I'll probably ask around a bit more around my campus.

[tepid forum]

are you starting next year or are you already there?

[inner sand]

I’m there

Well here :p

[tepid forum]

oh nice

[worthy apex]

I found out that George Mason University in Virginia has a March 1st deadline to apply with full consideration for funding. I might do that if I start getting a bunch of rejections. I'm keeping my eyes open for more late deadlines.

[subtle knoll]

I’m at GMU lol, dm me if you have questions

[worthy apex]

I just got rejected from Cornell. Anyone else hear back from them yet?

[worthy apex]

I got an email.

We regret to inform you that you will not be offered admission to the Ph.D. program in Mathematics.

Since the number of students who can be accepted is limited and the overall quality of applicants is very high, it is not possible to accept many excellent students who are interested in coming to Cornell.

We appreciate your interest in Cornell and wish you success in continuing your studies at another university.

The Graduate Admissions Committee

[inner grove]

RIP

[sonic surge]

From the moderation team:

A reminder to please not discuss admissions results in this channel. Such discussion is usually both discouraging and unhelpful. Discussion of such topics goes against the atmosphere we are trying to cultivate in this channel and has made some users uncomfortable. There are plenty of other places online in which you can freely discuss your admissions decisions.

[worthy apex]

Sorry! I'll avoid doing that in the future.

[tranquil heath]

what do you think contributed most to your application/why you were able to get in?

[inner sand]

Did my masters there and spoke to my now advisor a lot. Also started doing our equivalent of a masters project with him

(These masters projects do not require original research)

[tranquil heath]

cool, thank you

[hot wadi]

How hard is getting into a masters program compared to a PhD

particularly in canadian universities as those are with the funded masters

[tacit lark]

im pretty sure canadian phd programs require masters for admissions (for the most part). Id masters admissions in canada is probably similar to phd programs in the US.

The good schools there are going to be competitive like good schools in the US

in particular UBC, UofT, UVictoria. Waterloo and Mcgill are also really good in discrete math idk in general

[hot wadi]

yea i meant comparing masters admission in canada to straight to phd in the us

US*

im not a math major but i would have rec letters vouching that i did the basic math ( algebra,analysis,etc... ) so i probably would get insta rejected if i apply for a phd

tysm

[rapid dawn]

is there any downside to letting a grad school know they're your top choice

as in, might it affect what fellowships are awarded and such

[tacit lark]

If youre a cs major your should seriously look into theoretical cs programs.

[hot wadi]

why tho im not interested

in such things

[tacit lark]

just giving you suggestions lol

[torpid echo]

I think you should do this to show interest. Programs don’t want to admit you if they think you’ll get into much better programs and won’t accept theirs

[tacit lark]

When i was applying some profs at a university i applied to ask to meet on zoom. During the meeting they asked if they were one of my top choices. It was a good school, but not one of my top choices. But at the time I had no offers (it was early in the cycle) so i said yes.

They said they asked bc they had a limited number of offers for people w my interests. I declined my offer once i got a better one hoping they could offer someone else.

[rapid dawn]

I'm talking about programs I've already gotten an offer from

[torpid echo]

Oh

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[placid wagon]

got a rejection letter from UCLA. i think the fact that my GRE general score still hasn't come in from early december is why (was supposed to be graded in 10-15 days but it's been over 8 weeks), even though i've called ETS multiple times (they told me it should be up by jan 20th, and then monday which was just a straight lie). anyone know how i can file a formal complaint against them for completely screwing me lol

[cinder raptor]

They are a private company what are you going to do

You probably waived rights in their ToS before sitting the exam anyway

[worthy apex]

That's rough.

[hexed ibex]

Some program actually still care about GRE general?

[worthy apex]

From my understanding when that happens it's not the math program/department itself, but rather a requirement of the school itself.

[rapid dawn]

UCLA did not require the gre this year

[placid wagon]

i saw they didn't need the subject test, but it seemed like they still required the general.

[rapid dawn]

they required neither

[polar dirge]

is it valid to email my recommender (its due in 5 hours) n be like heyyyyyyy

[crimson valve]

yes

its better to potentially annoy someone rather than missing a letter

[polar dirge]

thank you for the reassurance 😁

[placid wagon]

god dammit. i should have just skipped doing the GRE honestly. what a waste of time

[rapid dawn]

the GRE might not have been the issue

these top programs are extremely competitive

I don't actually have a source for this, but the sense I get is the majority of qualified candidates don't get in.

[tacit lark]

I dont this is why

[tacit lark]

This is true

[hot wadi]

u got this homie just apply next year if ur really into this specific school

[tacit lark]

Its definitely not good advice to wait to apply to this ucla again. Chances are you wont get in again.

Its still early in the cycle. You have time to hear back from other schools.

Admissions are competitive and you apply to many schools for a reason.

[civic gull]

thoughts on contractions in a personal statement?

[hot wadi]

If he or she improves the app ig why not

[olive crater]

There isn't a lot of scope for improvement for math applications that is possible over one year(less than one year, considering how we are at the results stage of this cycle). Unless, maybe, they are a final year undergraduate who has shown significant improvement in grades over their final year that wouldn't have been reflected in this application of theirs, or if they didn't have strong letters of recommendation but can get them now(unlikely).

[tepid forum]

i think there's just not enough places to go around at the top universities so unless you are a prodigy they're all sort of a crapshoot no matter how strong you are. it might be that you can't really strengthen your application in any meaningful way

i wouldn't reapply unless you got in nowhere good enough for you

[gritty ruin]

I dispute this - you can learn a lot about a particular topic in the space of a year, and having a much more in-depth knowledge of your planned research topic is pretty relevant.

[gritty ruin]

But I do also agree with this wholeheartedly

[half meadow]

The question is, does learning more about a particular subject make a grad application more likely to be successful? If I were on an admissions committee I wouldn't be as interested in what the applicant already knows as in what their history indirectly tells me about whether they're the kind of person who could become a productive researcher. Learning more in a gap year could be seen as just "keeping up", rather than be a point in favor.

[gritty ruin]

True, I guess it could be taken that way. Although I would argue that if you try to catch up to the research in the area you are interested in, that shows commitment and potential for becoming a productive researcher, although this is admittedly largely my opinion.

[olive crater]

It shows commitment, I am not so sure about the extent to which it shows potential.

And commitment is unfortunately far from sufficient for a grad school admission or for becoming a productive researcher.

[hot wadi]

idk he or she can probably just make new connections

.

probably meet with another professor

do some math

new rec letter

etc

[olive crater]

Taking a year off to make new connections is very much like simply rolling dice. It may not have any benefits.

[hot wadi]

idk

[olive crater]

The whole publication 'cycle' is longer than what I believe you think.

[hot wadi]

i meant meeting with another professor who might like you (from courses u took with him or her or just whatever) and having better connections and/or stronger rec letter

did not mention research but yea ur right

maybe its because in the US everyone wants to do pure math so its not a rarity as much as here

in my country so probably thats why professors help more

[half meadow]

There's also the fact that the gap year itself could be a point against for a top school, especially if it seems to be for no other reason than "to improve your chances". It could easily smell of "either couldn't get in even at Podunk U, or had an offer at Podunk but is such a prima donna they'd rather wait a year for another roll of the dice with us than get started with an actual PhD". The latter assumption is at first sight flattering for the place you apply to, but even institutional narcissism wouldn't blind them to how it's a red flag too.

[tacit lark]

even meeting a new prof and publishing a paper over the year doesnt mean youll get in. You may have a better chance, but the odds will likely still be against you.

these schools get hundreds (if not more) applications

[hot wadi]

thats overkill isnt it

like actually publishing a paper isnot enough X

d

[hot wadi]

by top schools you mean what

idk much but i would say for most (very good) schools idk why a gap year for improving would hurt

tbh

[olive crater]

It is far from enough

[hot wadi]

for which schools again

ucla for the example above?

[olive crater]

Basically any

[hot wadi]

if i couldnt get in a pdounnk U but tried my best to improve over the year why does this not imply good attributes for the applicant

as in like passionate , willing to try again or whatever

[half meadow]

By 'top schools' in this context I mean places who get so many applicants that they know many of the people they have to reject could comfortably get in at a less popular place.

[olive crater]

I can't comment on the claim that a gap year would hurt your chances, but in general it doesn't do much to improve them.

[hot wadi]

well shouldnt it depend on what y9ou actually accomplish in that gap year

[olive crater]

Which is basically every single university

[half meadow]

You seem to persist in assuming the point of admissions is to reward past accomplishments?

[hot wadi]

yea? ig? any evidence of accomplishments in like research or whatever should be a strong point?

thats what grad school is about no?

idk

[tacit lark]

youre an ignorant undergrad lol. publishing a paper doesnt not guarantee you admission at a top school😂

[hot wadi]

yea ig its not a guarantee but it certainly like steroids for ur application

wdym

[tacit lark]

many qualified applicants dont get in. there arent enough spots. thats it.

not really

[half meadow]

[mod hat] Uh, let's watch the tone just a little bit here.

[hot wadi]

but okay mr admission commitee

[tacit lark]

how? i didnt say you need a publication. its just not that simple. many people have papers and there is more to an app.

[olive crater]

It is a good thing, certainly, but nothing is a guarantee at competitive universities

[hot wadi]

yea i agree its not a gurantee but its almost as if i mean

how many undergrads get to do actual researcha nd publish papers

certainly puts you ahead of the curve

[tacit lark]

at top schools? A lot.

[hot wadi]

• with that u have a guranteed rec letter from the prof u did with the research

idk seems steroids to me

[half meadow]

Exactly because many don't have the chance to do so, it's not particularly predictive of future success.

[olive crater]

Every undergrad seems to have multiple papers towards the end of their degree.

At least from what I've seen

[half meadow]

Huh?

[hot wadi]

how

u guys and girls are in a diff world than mine ig

[tacit lark]

maybe not publish, but ik many that had papers on arxiv. these students make up a small number of overall math majors though. but a nontrivial number of students at top schools.

[hot wadi]

yea anyone can do that i agree even i (who is very bad) can just write like some results from like

[tacit lark]

publishing doesnt even really matter, its mostly the experience

[olive crater]

I know a guy at my uni(final year student) who has 7 papers

[hot wadi]

idk some proofs of like sylow or whatever

[half meadow]

But in that case the impressive factor is doing so while being an undergrad, rather than taking a gap year to do it afterwards.

[hot wadi]

^ yea good point ig

but by that logic then most admission commites would devalue MS degrees

right

[tacit lark]

the point is just waiting a year to try to get into a specific school you really like is dumb. there are too many good applicants and too few spots. also admissions are noisy

[shadow bobcat]

All published and in math?

[tacit lark]

ive heard they are judged differently

[half meadow]

Proofs of the Sylow theorems don't make a paper -- they're old hat, appear in algebra textbooks everywhere. Who would publish that?

[tacit lark]

its not really fair to compare a ms student to a undergrad

[hot wadi]

yes thats what i meant , on arxiv not published

thats i thought knighwatch meant

[tacit lark]

ya but there is moderation

and the adcom would see your dumb arixiv post and immediately reject you

[hot wadi]

hahaha idk if this is the most realistic or pessimistic discussion on grad school admissions there is

i ams ure its not optimistic

[olive crater]

Student is in physics(theoretical/mathematical), 3 papers, 4 preprints, out of these 1 is in 'pure' math

[tacit lark]

thats definitely rare, most students do not have that

[hot wadi]

yea knightwatch is at mit

probably

[tacit lark]

even at MIT its rare lol

[shadow bobcat]

Yeah the only people I've known have multiple papers are in pre-med/chem fields

[olive crater]

Nope, I'm at a relatively unknown institution in Asia.

[tacit lark]

they could be trash papers tbh

[shadow bobcat]

That's true the journal they're in is also important

[olive crater]

Published in fairly reputed journals, most have active professors as co-authors

[tacit lark]

or not but it doesnt matter. you dont need papers to get into a good school (it helps a lot) let alone 7 papers.

[shadow bobcat]

Yeah I've talked to my professor about this and he's had friends who admitted people who had a paper or two thinking they'd be ready and a good fit just to be disappointed and conversely people they were on the fence with but ended up being great researchers. It feels like the whole thing ends up being a crap shoot for both ends but they tend to look for the same indicators regardless, enthusiasm about math, research experience, level of courses taken, etc

He's also admitted people to our program but it's only a master's so his candidates are as impressive as some of his friends

[half meadow]

"Enthusiasm about math" is important, but it is also a fairly low bar to clear. And once you do clear it, there's probably little or no benefit in being even more visibly enthusiastic than the next applicant, as long as they seem enthusiastic too in the first place.

[hot wadi]

how do you show that

[olive crater]

By publishing a few papers

[half meadow]

Stop trolling, please.

[shadow bobcat]

Actively going for research opportunities at your universities or REUs, trying to talk at conferences, doing competitions, independent reading courses, personal statement, etc

They just want some kind of guarantee you aren't flaky about math and that you aren't going to get in and just try to ride it out

[half meadow]

It's perfectly possible to demonstrate all the necessary enthusiasm with a personal statement.

[shadow bobcat]

That's also true recc letters too

[olive crater]

Everyone applying for math grad school is going to be 'enthusiastic'.

[hearty radish]

I'd delete this message to fit within the rules of this channel.

[half meadow]

Yes, that's my point. "Enthusiastic" is not really going to be in doubt in the first place, and there is no added benefit to being more visibly enthusiastic than other applicants.

[olive crater]

Yeah I assume doing research shows enthusiasm

[half meadow]

But so what?

[hot wadi]

this? or where

[shadow bobcat]

Research≠published papers though

[hearty radish]

First pinned message

[hot wadi]

xd are u talking about the being respectful

and ur pinging me

xdsd

[half meadow]

No admissions committee in their right mind is going to say "all these applicants seem good, but we only have so many slots to fill, so let's sort them by enthusiasm and take the most enthusiastic ones".

[olive crater]

No, the site you mentioned is not supposed to be mentioned

[hot wadi]

where does it say that

[hearty radish]

Okay I realizevthe first pinned message doesn't explicitly say it, but it's been mentioned multiple times

[hot wadi]

np

will delete it

lmfao

its already deleted

wait did i delete it or was it someone else

not nice

its not in the rules

yea wasnt nice tbh literally nowhere in the rules does it say that but its ok

[half meadow]

FTR, I didn't delete it but some of my colleagues really really want to keep the existence of that site secret, for reasons I'm not able to explain.

[hot wadi]

tell your colleagues then

to put it

in the rules

instead of deleting my msgs hahaha

[hearty radish]

It was at some point, or mentioned very early on and not pinned I guess

[sterile bone]

Deletion is not a slight against you

[hearty radish]

They're toxic threads, and they implicitly fit into like the chancing thing ryc mentions in that pinned message

[hot wadi]

yea even if it was mentioned like if somethign is against the rules ie as in something the mods can act on then it must be in pinned or like #rules

[hot wadi]

thats my msg

[half meadow]

I am, however, going to stand up for the team and say please don't derail the channel with metadiscussion.

[hot wadi]

i decide

whats against me

whats not

lmao

[sterile bone]

[hot wadi]

but its ok

[tacit lark]

Youre so annoying

[sterile bone]

Anyways, this discussion is not for this channel

[hot wadi]

ok nvm then

[hot wadi]

idk if u think ik u or we are friends or whatever we are not lmao and also since everyone is so all about the rules please be respectful as i am with you

mods ? lmao

second time this kid just pushes it 😦

[worthy apex]

I'm in panick mode right now; does anyone know any more schools with late deadlines? And/or, does anyone have any recommendations for anxiety meds I can ask my shrink about?

[raven sun]

@tacit lark play nice

[hearty radish]

It's only the start of February, so there is still quite a bit of time yet. I'm not really too sure on other phd programs that have open apps at this point

[torpid drum]

I think that asking the math discord for advice on medications is maybe not the best idea

[worthy apex]

Yeah I had added that somewhat facetiously, I don't actually have the money for proper healthcare

[hearty radish]

I understand the levels of stress are extremely high rn though

[worthy apex]

I am definitely super anxious about my chances though to the point where it feels like I might have an anxiety disorder

But, um, more schools

The other day I found George Mason still accepts apps until the end of Feb

[hearty radish]

Yeah, that's the only one I knew of

[worthy apex]

I have an undergraduate thesis in wavelet analysis I'm working on too, and the spring semester starting is definitely doing a lot to distract me

[raven sun]

ooo wavelet analysis that's cool

[hearty radish]

Yeah, it's easy to obsess over these things. You still have quite a bit of time to hesr back from plenty of schools (As for anxiety relief, some things I recommend from my therapist are meditation and walking outside if things become too stressful)

[worthy apex]

I think as soon as I get accepted into one of my schools my mind will settle down a lot; but right now my entire future is still very up-in-the-air

[worthy apex]

Uh, it's like -25 outside and a blizzard so I'll stick with meditation

[hearty radish]

Yeah maybe that's a good idea, I forget it's very cold rn

7F this morning..

[worthy apex]

It looks like the weather will be decent by like 2

[raven sun]

Also a lot of ppl will reject offers from places they've got into as they decide on schools, which will open up spots

(I heavily recommend tea for anxiety relief lol)

[hearty radish]

Anyway, I'll lyk if I find any schools that are still accepting applications, but something my advisor told me yesterday is that thinking a lot about the future outcomes to something you can't change isn't going to change them. In addition to what Faye said as well

[shell kindle]

Consider leaving the server for two months

May help to separate yourself

[worthy apex]

Thanks.

[tacit lark]

Its still early. You have plenty of time to hear back.

[undone yacht]

Soon applications will open here https://www.math.uu.se/research/cim/phd-programme/

(M.Sc. is a prerequisite)

[rapid dawn]

This is good advice

Speaking from experience

[rapid dawn]

I'm sure you'll get in somewhere good

I haven't heard anything from over half of the programs I applied to, so it's still early

[rapid dawn]

Yeah this too

I expect a number of offers will be sent out mid March because that's when visits tend to be I think

My understanding is it's fairly rare for a qualified candidate who applied widely (10ish programs) to get in nowhere

Also the worst case scenario isn't that you don't go to grad school, it's that you apply again next year.

Not saying that wouldn't suck, and I doubt it will happen, but I think it's reassuring to remember that even the fail state is far from the end of your career.

[crimson valve]

you guys have results out? i dont have any lol

whens the normal time to be hearing back?

[worthy apex]

I've so far only heard back from Cornell and nowhere else.

[tepid forum]

I've heard back from 2/15 lol

I was expecting more than 1 decision on Friday but app not

[sterile bone]

can you not

[tacit lark]

i had a friend that got off some waitlists in march

[tacit lark]

Id say sometime in february. I got most of my decisions in february and some in march.

[shell kindle]

I got all of my decisions in march and April

[gritty ruin]

I heard back from Berkeley in mid feb

[worthy apex]

I mean Cornell was way earlier than I expected. I hadn't expected to hear back from anyone until St. Valentine's Day at the earliest

[gritty ruin]

I heard back from Chicago before then last year

I heard back from Berkeley on Valentine's Day I'm pretty sure

[mystic jungle]

I hope not. I applied to 16 but I'm already pessimistic after hearing about the UPenn open house which I didn't get invited to. So far rejected from 5: Chicago, Yale, Northwestern, Harvard, Princeton.

[rapid dawn]

Well those are all top programs so I don't think getting rejected says much about your chances elsewhere

[tacit lark]

Those are all elite and then northwestern is really good

You still have many schools to hear back from

[rapid dawn]

If you flip a coin 16 times, even if the flips are correlated to some degree, you're probably going to get at least 1 heads

[glossy kindle]

that is nonsense, these rejections are stressful precisely because it’s very hard to estimate the “degree” of correlation here.

[rapid dawn]

The argument isn't that it's irrational or stupid to be stressed about rejections

[glossy kindle]

anecdotally, there is probably not much significant correlation, but don’t pretend like there’s some science to predicting admissions outcomes.

why use math words to give someone a potentially false sense of hope? it’s asinine to equate this to flipping coins.

[mystic jungle]

Your probability of admission is close to either 0 or 1 when you submit an application, you just don't know which one. The remaining are {MIT, Berkeley, Michigan, Hopkins, Stony Brook, UCLA, Stanford, Columbia, Brown, UC San Diego, UPenn}, so the fact I'm not likely to be admitted to UPenn which is among the weakest on the list makes it likely I don't get admitted to any of them.

[torpid echo]

Reminder:

[mystic jungle]

Yes, none of them (I gave where I was applying to 3 professors) mentioned any objections

I asked them for advice on aspects of the applications I can control, got some feedback on the statement of purpose and improved it. CV is extremely polished through many rounds of revisions with various people the last few years, at this point when people look at it they can't find anything wrong, or only find a minor detail.

I'm not sure what you mean by target schools, but I'm prepared for all the schools I applied to in terms of knowledge and skills.

[glossy kindle]

Your probability of admission is close to either 0 or 1 when you submit an application, you just don't know which one.
lol.

[mystic jungle]

?

[torpid echo]

Hella false

[shadow bobcat]

Target schools are schools that you would feel reasonably good about your chances to get into. Not like you're guaranteed or anything but you feel comfortable with your chances

Most people would probably consider Ivy Leagues and UCs to be reach schools and a target to be something below that level but still good

[mystic jungle]

Why?

[torpid echo]

For a lot of schools, their decisions are a lot of toss-ups. There’s a lot of ppl applying who are qualified, and they just have to pick some based off of whatever minimal info they have

So that’s why you apply a lot of places, if you’re well-qualified but aren’t god’s gift to math you’re just rolling dice basically

So I don’t think it’s true that your chances are basically 0 or 1 at any given place

[rapid dawn]

Cringe

It's not false hope though. If you apply to a good range of schools you will probably get in somewhere. The reason for that is it's unlikely to lowroll that many times in a row, even assuming correlation.

The goal isn't to put precise numbers on things, it's to use a very rough sense of statistics to reassure oneself.

That said if UPenn is among the weakest on your list, you might have an issue

[mystic jungle]

I based the schools on their strength in algebraic geometry & number theory. An issue with probability, or something else? The former I didn't realize until recently with all the information I received, otherwise elaborate.

[rapid dawn]

I don't know AG and number theory, but surely there are some less competitive schools with good people in those areas

Although maybe I'm overestimating how competitive UPenn is. I don't have the best sense of these things myself.

I know I viewed UPenn as neither a safety nor a reach for my own applications

[mystic jungle]

There are, but there always is since there's hundreds of colleges for any large area. However, I'd rather be an average student in a great college than a great student in an average college. No point in applying to Podunk U if you don't want to go there.

[rapid dawn]

There's a difference between a safety and a bad school

Safety is a measure of how competitive they are to get into, quality is a function of what people they have in the area you're interested in

[mystic jungle]

The school I'm at right now is a safety (University of Delaware), but I don't want to be stuck there. Quality declined because the people in my area left or retired, although I didn't know that back in fall 2021. Typically though, competitiveness and quality correlate.

[rapid dawn]

They correlate but not perfectly

[crimson valve]

eh u can go to podunk U if it has ppl in ur area

like you realyl dont need to go to a e.g. top 50 school

[rapid dawn]

I know at least for what I was interested in there were a number of lower ranked schools that had good people

[crimson valve]

like, you will still go to conferences, you will still have an advisor, you will still do ur research etc

its absurd to write off these "podunk U"

[mystic jungle]

A better school improves your postdoc odds and gives a better environment for the meantime.

[crimson valve]

sure

doesnt mean that lower level schools are not worth it

lol

[rapid dawn]

What matters the most are your advisor and the quality of your thesis

[raven sun]

(Personally I find the phrasing "podunk u" and how it's being used here very bad for math culture and the environment of this channel)

[mystic jungle]

The lower schools don't have that same energy and zeal among the students.

[crimson valve]

yeah i agree i shouldnt have said that faye

[raven sun]

(getting a math PhD anywhere is hard, and requires quite a bit of effort and talent)

[crimson valve]

thats just false

[raven sun]

well

[crimson valve]

i meant to euler

[raven sun]

besides a degree mill

[crimson valve]

not to u

lol

[rapid dawn]

lmao

[crimson valve]

like if ur at the level of math phd then the student body has a lot of energy and zeal

[rapid dawn]

in general people care too much about ranking

[crimson valve]

you are not going to be doing a math phd if you do not have enthusiasm about math

[raven sun]

but yes this was a general comment not just at u John I've seen ppl using the terminology a lot

[crimson valve]

lol

[mystic jungle]

I don't mean to write it off completely as some people at any place find it good, perhaps a better term is "relative Podunk" and this varies from person to person.

[rapid dawn]

I made a point not to apply to the "top ranked" schools for undergrad

[raven sun]

(gradapps channel hot today bc uhhhh stressful time)

[crimson valve]

yeah oof

[rapid dawn]

and things are working out well for me

[crimson valve]

well like, the top ranked schools literally dont have anyone working in my research area

[rapid dawn]

model theory?

[crimson valve]

operator algebras

[night badger]

I cannot think of a worse attitude than blaming your luck for not getting into schools you want, how about ascribing a rejection to your own credentials and stop coping like there is no tomorrow

[rapid dawn]

lmfao waht

math server toxic today

[tacit lark]

Youre right. Unfortunately job outcome changes drastically outside top schools.

[crimson valve]

so its really to me, about finding a school where theres enough people in my area, and i can a reasonably well funded dept ig

[half meadow]

Hmm, I thought "Podunk" was a way to refer to a generic okay-but-not-wonderful institution without needing to name specific names.

[tacit lark]

There is a lot of luck involved.

[crimson valve]

yeah i think its absurd to not realize how much luck is in each school

[tacit lark]

I thought podunk was like a small southern school lol.

[crimson valve]

thats why you apply to many

right

[rapid dawn]

you are aware that one can acknowledge the role luck plays without thinking one's credentials have nothing to do with it

these are like, almost two completely different skillsets

working to be the best you can be, and not beating yourself up over failures

[half meadow]

There's no call for that kind of attitude in this discussion, by the way. If you cannot stay civil, stay out instead.

[proper dirge]

Idk why its been so hard to find masters/phd programs in this area in europe maybe im just not looking hard enough

[crimson valve]

well in europe i know like

UK has a few

[raven sun]

I didn’t mean to imply otherwise! Especially academic job rates change a lot. I just think it’s insulting to diminish the work of ppl at lower ranked institutions like that

[crimson valve]

and then munster in germany has a huge group

[tacit lark]

It may be harder to transfer to an elite school from delaware. I dont have evidence supporting this. But i dont see many people transferring unless their advisor leaves.

[rapid dawn]

calling it coping not to beat yourself up is an extremely toxic attitude

[crimson valve]

theres a group in denmark

[raven sun]

As a southern—

[tacit lark]

Yea youre right

[crimson valve]

and one in prague i think? i think it might be less active now though

[tacit lark]

I am from the south too. Idk the word podunk just gives me that vibe.

[crimson valve]

I didnt end up applying bc i dont really want to do a masters oof

[mystic jungle]

That's what I mean, but with the caveat "okay but not wonderful" depends on your skill and knowledge: courses, research, proof-writing experience, math maturity all affect what would be an ok level.

[proper dirge]

Yeah this is my top choice actually , i think saarlandes has a group as well in germany.

[raven sun]

Lol I agree that’s part of why it’s insulting

[crimson valve]

nice susilian

[proper dirge]

Yeah doing a masters first is pretty standars for europe unfortunately

[crimson valve]

theres a few places in the americas too if you are interested, and if you want to avoid the US then canada has waterloo which has a huge group

[proper dirge]

yes i am avoiding the us lol ile checkout waterloo

[night badger]

I apologize for getting hostile there. My point was that the factor of luck is beyond your control, the only variable you can tune in this is to improve your own credentials and not delude yourself into thinking that you will get lucky one day.

[crimson valve]

theres also the university of victoria which has like 4 ppl in the area, but its like, an easy to get into typa school

[half meadow]

Hmmm, then examples of "Podunk" Google finds for me don't seem to be clustered in any particular compass direction. The Wikipedia article seems to list places in upstate New York and Connecticut as prototype examples.

[crimson valve]

(in canada)

[proper dirge]

Thats perfectly okay with me , dc much about ranks as long as i can do what i enjoy

Thanks for the suggestions!

[crimson valve]

yeah i agree

[half meadow]

Please cease to assume that people in the discussion are out to "delude themselves".

[crimson valve]

one of the schools I am most likely to go to is UC riverside

because I have been in touch with like, a prof there I want to work with

even though its ranked like 80 or something

[proper dirge]

Nice! Good luck , hope it goes well.

[crimson valve]

mhm ty

you are applying next year right

[mystic jungle]

True, I'm fighting an uphill battle. However, it helps I'm far beyond the best new student there, and a recommendation I have from one of the Delaware professors may reflect that. I'm not sure how to prove it to you (depends what you'd consider evidence), but I'm stronger than many of the students going to these elite schools from my undergrad.

[proper dirge]

Yeah most likely

[crimson valve]

nice, hopefully in operator algebras kek

[proper dirge]

Thats what im most interested in learning thus far , hopefully ile enjoy it 👀

[crimson valve]

nice

[night badger]

I did not just assume things ser. The analogy with flipping a coin enough times would get you a head is obviously meant to say that you will eventually get lucky.

[tacit lark]

I meant i dont have evidence thats its harder to get in as a transfer student.

[half meadow]

It was describing a reasonable strategy for dealing with the fact that there is randomness in the process.

[shadow bobcat]

How competitive are Indiana, Iowa State, Wisconsin, and Ohio State?

I just realized I know like nothing about midwest colleges lol

[crimson valve]

ohio state is pretty competitive, idk about the others but I cant imagine they are super competitive

(unless by Wisconsin, u mean UW-madison which is super super competive)

ofcourse this isnt very informative ig, it depends on what your goals are and your own level etc

so me saying this is competitive probably doesnt mean much to you

[shadow bobcat]

I'm just trying to get an idea of some schools to kind of find more less competitive schools to look towards applying to. Also yes I mean UW-Madison I didn't know there were others

Thank you btw John

[crimson valve]

yeah UW madison is like top 20

and Ohio state is also up there

[mystic jungle]

I get what you meant. When I said the word evidence I meant for my last sentence, because not everyone would believe the claim at face value.

[crimson valve]

this depends on what you want to work in btw. Like sometimes a "lower level" school interms of selectivity will have good stuff for ur area ykwim

and also sometimes its better to aim for a bigger school, as they will need things like more TAs, so unintuitively you might have a better shot at a bigger school of a slightly higher level (atleast according to my prof lol)

[shadow bobcat]

Yeah, I've seen that with uh Rochester I was talking to a prof at my school who knows a professor doing interesting work there and he said it'd be good to apply if I was interested since it's not a super sought after school but the professor is very good

U of Rochester not RIT

[crimson valve]

right

[worthy apex]

RIT doesn't even have a math PhD as far as I'm aware.

[shadow bobcat]

Did not know that

[glossy kindle]

i think it’s naive to say that admissions decisions are categorically uncorrelated. if alice is admitted to harvard, princeton, mit, … and bob is rejected from all schools in this “tier,” it’s reasonable to predict that alice is more likely than bob to be admitted to a given program with much higher acceptance rates. it is good to name the inherent unpredictability of these things and to understand that rejections tend to have little to do with an applicant’s aptitude for a career in mathematics research. it is also irresponsible to convey to future applicants reading this that they need not think about how admissions committees evaluate applications, nor frankly assess their own qualifications to determine where to apply, so long as they believe in the law of large numbers.

that said, it’s certainly the case that any applicant has a very low chance of being admitted to a given “top tier” school, perhaps except for an extremely small group of people.

[shadow bobcat]

I believe they mean uncorrelated in the sense that you could get rejected by Princeton, MIT, and UCLA but still get accepted by Harvard

That's how I interpreted it at least

[glossy kindle]

my anecdotal evidence suggests that this is incorrect, but sure.

that is, everyone i know who was accepted at e.g. harvard was also accepted at 2-4 of the other “top 6” schools.

[glossy kindle]

in my opinion, this kind of thing happening is a byproduct of toxic positivity in a lot of internet mathematics communities. highly successful people are quick to reassure undergrads that they’re not alone in having impostor syndrome, and that they’ll have a career in mathematics if they just love math enough. i see comparatively much less substantive advice for such undergrads about how to actually secure a career in math.

“it’s just coin flipping if you apply to a good range of schools” is begging the question that the applicant knows what a “good range” is, or at least that they know how to figure that out.

[half meadow]

"Uncorrelated" is clearly too strong an assumption, But I don't think that invalidates the basic point that each applicant doesn't know in advance if they'll end up in the grey area where chance sets in -- and to manage the possibility that they will, it is rational to send out applications to several schools in each rough tier.

(Their local advisors may have a somewhat better idea than the student themself has, but even they don't know in detail what the competitive field is going to look like this year).

[glossy kindle]

i think you give the average undergrad too much credit. with maybe three exceptions, every math major i knew at my large state school undergraduate institution was unbelievably overconfident about graduate school prospects. i think they’re all poorly-paid programmers now.

[torpid echo]

I don’t think UW-Madison is “super super competitive” unless you’re gonna say Harvard is “super super super super super competitive”

Madison is a good school for sure and competitive but by my gauge I don’t think I’d give it even a single super

[hot wadi]

pessimistic

[glossy kindle]

how so?

[hot wadi]

idk just felt pessimistic like how do u know either of that

[glossy kindle]

what?

[hot wadi]

do u know them all

what makes you say they are poorly-paid

[glossy kindle]

“every math major i knew”

i looked into my crystal ball.

[hot wadi]

hope ur doing good my man i really do

u sound stressed af

fuck this shit

[crimson valve]

well we are at the point where everyone has already applied to schools right, the ones who were talking about this

so the point for applying to "a good range" is already done

so ofc now we are at the stage of awaiting results, and i think under the assumption that you applied to a good range, its fine to reassure someone they will probably get into atleast 1 right

like the substantial advice about the good range phase is already over

and the people already did that

[hot wadi]

yes its more than fine its actually encouraged

i hope everyone gets to their dream schools here

[crimson valve]

and also comparing to the top schools is absurd

[half meadow]

There's not really any room for such advice to have any consequence either way at this stage.

[crimson valve]

I dont think anyones saying that "oh yeah you will get into top 6 school bc probability"

but that out of your selection of grad schools you apply to (which probably involved safeties etc), if you applied to a good range, you will probably get into 1

and its not "wether to apply" as much as where to apply. I dont think anyone here should be discouraging people from applying at all, but maybe the advice should be to give less selective options for them to apply to

[half meadow]

I'm not sure that can be assumed in general. If there are more students in the country that desire to study for a PhD than there are open slots in total, then it can't be that they'll all probably get in.

[crimson valve]

hmm part of that is true i suppose

but i do think it applies to most ppl talked about here i guess

[half meadow]

That's the question. On the other hand it is polite to assume that the stranger you're talking to on the internet is qualified, because who are we to tell them they're not, based on the necessarily extremely superficial knowledge of them we can have? (Unless they have plans of getting a PhD by focusing strictly on the Collatz problem or something such).

[crimson valve]

yeah

[shadow bobcat]

Even then someone has done that before iirc though the outcome may not be desirable

[mystic jungle]

Definitely an exaggeration, you can get there with basic undergrad courses, some research, and a strong recommendation. Maybe the people I knew were just lucky though.

[mystic jungle]

Poorly-paid is beside the point, aiming for grad school and ending up a code monkey might be a better way to phrase it.

[mystic jungle]

That's already the case but luckily most people suck (noah fence). If we get to the point where there's more people who've put in unreasonable blood, toils, tears, and sweat than there are spots (like there is for the major American leagues and a growing amount of Olympic events) in all paid programs combined, we've got problems. But maybe by that point most jobs will be automated and there'll be tons of resources freed up for academia.

[hot wadi]

heyy i got offended 😠

[glossy kindle]

qualified or not, i’d argue asking for help deciding where to apply for grad school on the internet before asking e.g. faculty at one’s home institution demonstrates some lack of understanding of how academia works.

i don’t think it’s necessarily rude to assume so.

[mystic jungle]

Loosely related but I realized why we discuss admission probabilities and factors out of our control so much online. All the aspects that can be controlled and influenced like choosing places, improving SOP, improving CV, having people read your materials can be done on your own and by asking professors. However, professors tend to be overly optimistic about admissions unless they've served on the committee. They look at their days, but students are much stronger now, stronger noticeably than even 10 years ago.

[glossy kindle]

though i was talking about underqualified applicants, my comments go both ways. there are certainly those who are competitive for top schools but are never told so and/or how to convey their qualifications to recommendation letter writers, admissions committees, etc..

[glossy kindle]

yes, which is why i said this is bad for future applicants reading this conversation. also, i find it unkind to tell someone who applied to too few safety schools that they’re bound to get in to one of the places they applied, just by law of large numbers. people make mistakes, and that’s okay.

to be clear, i am not asserting that this person applied to too few safety schools. it’s not clear one way or the other given minimal information.

[hot wadi]

bro is a computer

[glossy kindle]

stop calling me “bro” and “man.”

[torpid echo]

This channel was a mistake, but if it didn’t exist it would just spill out everywhere else.

[hot wadi]

true

and at the same time the mods wanna ban a certain forum

but the thing is there is nothing about the forum itself

its the whole topic