graduate-applications

[tepid forum]

well being smart enough is a necessary condition at least

but ye Ive heard of that weirdness

[torpid echo]

Eh

It’s hard for them to judge how smart you are based on the materials they have

So they’re basing it on way more than just that

[hearty radish]

Yeah, “smartness” isn’t exactly something easy to measure

And not very objective

[tepid forum]

guess not

I'm just gonna send them off and forget about them

as long as I get a funded offer either UK or US I'm happy

[tacit lark]

You think too highly of people at top schools

Theyre probably ‘smart’ but you dont have to be senior wrangler at cambridge to go and do well at a top phd in the us

[tepid forum]

true enough

[main marlin]

dont the recommendation letters explicitly say how smart you are?

[torpid echo]

I’m sure literally every letter they receive says “X is smart”

But that’s someone else saying it lol

And like that’s not objective

[tepid forum]

in my case they will be lying

jk

[main marlin]

i mean suppose you are asking a professor who got their phd at harvard/etc for a recommendation letter. they would have a good sense how you would compare to their cohort when they went to grad school and i would expect them to say where they would suspect you to lie

[tepid forum]

i'm interested what they'd say

one of my referees went to princeton

[torpid echo]

Sure but like

There’s gonna be tons of ppl with letters from ppl from top schools saying they’re smart

My point is like you can’t filter for “smartest” because you can’t have that much precision

[tacit lark]

And smart isnt everything

Being persistent and hardworking is important

Terence tao spends hours per day on math. Saying someone is smart doesnt mean shit.

[main marlin]

i guess i suspect that the people who get into top top schools to have recommendation letters from reputable professors who say something like "this student is likely one of the top x undergraduate mathematicians in the united states at this moment" or "this is the undergraduate with the brightest mind i have seen matriculate from this department in the last 10 years" or something and say that with some kind of reputation on the line

maybe it is not like that though

[tacit lark]

Not at all

Maybe the second but you dont need to be a top x mathematician in the us to get into a top school.

Most people at top schools dont end up being famous profs

I doubt most end up as profs

[main marlin]

haha fair enough

[main marlin]

i meant to qualify as undergraduate

and mathematician sounds kinda presumptuous i meant something closer to "top x undergraduate mathematics student"

[shell kindle]

No not at all

[shadow bobcat]

I kind of think the perk of a smaller department or less well known one is in that statement more so at a top school sure you're in the top x of students worldwide but it seems like it's harder to distinguish yourself but at a smaller or not as well known school you can distinguish yourself as one of the best in the department and faculty will probably know you which will make the letters better and it's easier to compare you to past students of the school. Of course smaller schools are limited in what they offer/faculty and prestige and I'm not expert in any of this but that's just my thoughts.

[sudden sorrel]

Saying Terence Tao is smart does mean something. Good students trying to get into graduate programs are all hardworking, persistent and dedicated. Working hard is like the minimal requirement

[past plume]

Dude

Smartness discussions are annoying

If I ever read a rec letter that says "this person is the smartest person in the world" I will not take it seriously

It diesnt matter how smart you are. It matters what work you do, how much you achieve

Imo a Good rec letter writer should write about the quality of your work, not compare your "smartness" to others

[past plume]

I hate that

[shadow bobcat]

I mean in a similar vein see JFK's personal statement things were different back then I suppose

[inner solar]

algorithms and complexity theory

[inner solar]

I think the point of recommendation letters is to speak about qualities that are not easy to display through achievements

[tacit lark]

You should be ok. What schools are you applying to?

[inner solar]

In the US I'm applying to Columbia, Duke, Michigan, and CMU (it's a bit ambitious and I don't expect to get in, my advisor recommended that if I don't then I continue work with him for a couple years and reapply). In Europe I'm applying to ENS, Max Planck, and EPFL. I think I should get into all 3 of those, maybe with the exception of EPFL.

What about you?

Oh also applying for MSR Fellowship

I did some work at MSR in the summer so hoping

[tacit lark]

Good luck! Those are some good schools.

[inner solar]

Thanks! To be completely honest, the list is mostly an intersection of places that offer a fee waiver, places that don't require english tests, and places in the top ~30 for algorithms and complexity.

[tacit lark]

Warwick is really good for tcs too

[inner solar]

There is a prof there that I wanted to work under but unfortunately he's not taking graduate students this year

[shadow bobcat]

How does Europe work for grad students? Are masters there funded?

[inner solar]

Some of them

The tuition fee is almost always negligible though, from what I've seen

Switzerland and UK seem to be the exceptions to that

[shadow bobcat]

Yeah those were the two countries I had looked at lol

[torpid echo]

Go Columbia!

[past plume]

Go CUNY!

[robust crescent]

do I actually need to put professors' phone numbers for the UChicago app?

[tepid forum]

I couldn't send the request without one

[candid quarry]

You can give your institution's phone number

[inner solar]

Omg

Is that

the Moldilocks

[void gyro]

Yup

[sacred estuary]

Currently my statement essentially looks like a couple of paragraphs for things I worked on/am working on, a few more lines about other problems and TAing/mentoring etc, and finally school specific stuff. I am not sure how much detail is appropriate, how to make it flow naturally and less a regurgitation of facts, while not saying too little. Most of the work is elementary and I am afraid I'll say something that would sound naive. Does anyone have any general related advice? Or link to somewhere in the server where such a discussion has already taken place? (This is for TCS by the way.)

[tepid forum]

I didn't think of this lol, 2/3 of my profs had phone numbers on their websites anyway

[noble cloak]

yeah and even if thats not the case, the publication is usually nothing ground breaking

tho there are some people who have crazy good research too. my friend in physics (tho he already has a fellowship at cambridge in undergrad so he is a special case)

lol

u got a fully funded masters at CMU?

[noble cloak]

yeah, all of them would say that the student is outstanding. from what i have heard, it matters more who is writing it and if they have connections to unis u wanna get into

which is kind of an issue for me, all the people i ended up working under have no connections to unis abroad.

[noble cloak]

u could probably get into princeton then

ask him to put in a good word for u before u apply maybe

[noble cloak]

i dont 😅

[tepid forum]

I would have to have some lottery-winning luck to get into Princeton

Though again that's the case for everyone xd doesn't hurt to apply

[noble cloak]

well regardless, make the chances of it as high as possible 🤷‍♂️

[noble cloak]

do this

all u can do

[noble cloak]

yeah, just maximize your chances

sadly none of the profs i ended up working under have significant connections abroad.. im not from a great uni.. so i doubt id get in either. but regardless, im trying to get my dad/profs to dig up some connections so i can get some kind of informal letter/help somehow. kind of late to do this sadly, should not have used up time working with profs in my uni

btw guys. any universities that accept with GRE scores? I have a decent one and hoping that can help
Also, any advice for TOEFL? I need to complete it in like less than a week amidst my finals

[candid quarry]

[candid quarry]

People usually mess up in the speaking section, even when they are fluent. Keep in mind that you don't need to be extremely fluent, and being able to get your ideas across is enough. You can decide to rephrase a sentence while in the middle of one, and you will not lose any points, so do not get nervous and continue talking nonsense if you think that you started saying something that you didn't want to. Basically, natural, casual speech is completely fine, and you don't need to be extra wary of how you're speaking. Another thing is that you can get self conscious because everyone taking the exam is in the same room, but in my exam, one guy was literally screaming into his mic, and no one cared. You can be surprisingly loud without disturbing others, so don't try to whisper into the mic.

[noble cloak]

i have a problem, especially when im nervous, i start speaking broken english

[candid quarry]

oof

[noble cloak]

i think i will be taking it online (if i can). i really dont like such disturbances

if i cant take it online, duolingo will need to suffice anyways..

[candid quarry]

I don't have a solution for that, except that you can talk in very casual English. Like of course, not the kind of English you'd see on Twitter etc, but the kind in which you'd talk to a friend

[candid quarry]

Ye that's cool then

[noble cloak]

somehow i need a 100..

by 29th too 😨

amidst exams. need at least 100

[candid quarry]

100 is not too difficult if you are fluent. The hard part is that there are often subsection minimum scores

[noble cloak]

yeah 25 in each

[candid quarry]

Ye that should be easy in reading and listening (assuming you have no problems with the accent)

Writing and speaking are usually where it is low

[noble cloak]

its crazy how the fuck i busted my ass for GRE and now people care more about toefl than GRE.. 🤦‍♂️

[candid quarry]

Lmao

At least TOEFL doesn't ask bs vocabulary questions like GRE

[noble cloak]

any schools u would know that care decently about GRE?

[noble cloak]

GRE doesnt either

anymore

[candid quarry]

Ah, that's nice

[candid quarry]

I know MIT and Columbia do

[noble cloak]

oh

whens MIT deadline?

[candid quarry]

15th dec

[noble cloak]

hmm ok

[candid quarry]

And Harvard as well

[noble cloak]

any others?

cuz i likely wont get into any of those 3

[candid quarry]

oof

None that I remember

Off the top of my head

[noble cloak]

im not from some top uni and neither am i from some favored diversity groups

[candid quarry]

Right

[noble cloak]

fuck why do they keep it in the middle of exams..

absolute sadists

[candid quarry]

[noble cloak]

bruh @candid quarry

i am seriously pissed off on how much more useful toefl is than the gre..

[candid quarry]

Ahh masters in CS

[candid quarry]

Ye I didn't even give subject GRE

[noble cloak]

likely wont be applying to harvard anyways so eh

need to be rich, diverse, have toefl, im none of those

[noble cloak]

no one does

but even general GRE is absolutely useless

spent like 1k$ just on retests..

[candid quarry]

I can't apply to Harvard for math because of no GRE lol, they are requiring it

[noble cloak]

bruh

[candid quarry]

oh shit

[inner solar]

Be careful about that, I've seen a few good places that don't accept the home version of TOEFL

[noble cloak]

this is good

[noble cloak]

dont really have any other option..

no tests till after the deadline

[inner solar]

This is honestly nonsense. I don't understand AT ALL why any decent graduate program, particularly PhD ones, require GRE or even recommend it.

[noble cloak]

shit they dont accept gre at home either..

[inner solar]

Ah I see

[noble cloak]

masters

but hey.. at least it offers some way of me proving myself

cuz otherwise any top uni is basically beyond my reach. what will they accept me on the basis of? my toefl scores?

[inner solar]

Do you think any top uni will accept you on the basis of your GRE score?

[noble cloak]

actually required in all 3 of my fields

[noble cloak]

at least i hope it gives them a reason not to automatically reject me

hopefully

anyways thnx for all the guidance @inner solar @candid quarry i will try to do TOEFL as well as i can

[inner solar]

Good luck!

[noble cloak]

thnx 😄

[waxen spire]

I believe the GRE requirements aren’t set by departments, but rather the larger graduate schools that control admissions

[noble cloak]

depends from uni to uni

[candid quarry]

All the best

[hearty radish]

No, I’m here for a math PhD

[noble cloak]

nice

so u directly went for phd?

[noble cloak]

thnx

[tepid forum]

could anyone give a read over my SoP? think it's pretty much done apart from a bit more about my masters thesis

[noble cloak]

anyone have advice on this? I have uni exams from 27th and i really need to study for them. I could try and complete my TOEFL and requirements before early deadline but it does not mention anywhere if early deadline has any advantage on admission chances

is this duolingo score easier to achieve by any chance?

[next bane]

CMU

[noble cloak]

yeah, any advice?

[noble cloak]

i would but idk if i would be best for advice

[tepid forum]

yeah pref someone in math

[next bane]

Hmm, no, I'm just really interested in one research group there

[tacit lark]

Gpa, lor, personal statement. I can tell you that you wont be accepted bc ur gre lol. It doesnt really help. Just doing bad can hurt.

[noble cloak]

yeah i never said id be accepted because of those. but i just hope they dont reject me because im from a bleh uni. I hope GRE may help with that

[tacit lark]

U did say what else would they accept you on the basis of

[noble cloak]

couldnt get LoRs from people with US connections either cuz i was from bleh uni. tho i should not have worked with profs at my uni. was my own fault but i didnt know better back then

[noble cloak]

any advice on this?

[tacit lark]

No

[noble cloak]

ok

[noble cloak]

i have a good GPA but i doubt they would care since its a bleh uni, unless I could also back it up with my GRE scores/some other standardised test. my main issue is that some unis wont even look at them

thnx for the advice (genuinely saying this and not in some sarcastic/passive aggressive manner. i genuinely appreciate any conversation/advice from this channel)

[tepid forum]

i think that's one of the uses of the GRE

[noble cloak]

i might try this

[noble cloak]

also. someone from math help george with feedback if u can

[tepid forum]

lmao thanks

[noble cloak]

👍 didnt want it to get drowned out

[gritty ruin]

I could maybe help, but I don't know how good my advice would be

[hearty radish]

Yeah, that’s pretty usual in the US

[noble cloak]

nice

[noble cloak]

can u apply to both phd and MS?

[hearty radish]

CMU doesn’t have a master’s in math open to apply to

But some places do

NYU just gave me admission to their master’s program bc I didn’t make it in off the waitlist

[tacit lark]

I dont think ms in math is competitive

[noble cloak]

sorry? didnt get u there

[tacit lark]

It’s a money grab

[hearty radish]

Yes

[tacit lark]

Most masters are tbh

[noble cloak]

yeah i was thinking perhaps if i dont get into any good unis this year i could try for direct phd next year with better pubs (especially if i can also apply to masters simultaneously)

[hearty radish]

There are a lot of schools that use master’s as a way to get a ton of money

[tacit lark]

Thats harder and i would only do it if your goal is a phd

[noble cloak]

it was/is for the most part

[shell kindle]

Was?

[hearty radish]

If your goal is a PhD and you’re in the US, you should probably not be going for a master’s unless it’s a requirement for application for whatever reason. Like as far as I can tell, places like CMU in engineering and computer science are basically master’s degree mills bc of name recognition

[noble cloak]

i dont think im qualified enough for phd yet

at least not at such schools

cant even do an epsilon-NFA to DFA

[tacit lark]

That doesnt matter

[noble cloak]

if im qualified or not?

[tacit lark]

A lot of cs masters are like this

[hearty radish]

The fact you have research and potentially publications is already a jump ahead of a lot of people anyway

Look at my pinned message

[hearty radish]

Yeah I’m not surprised

[tacit lark]

In my experience A lot of international students get masters

[noble cloak]

this one? 😂

[hearty radish]

Yeah

[noble cloak]

so u think i should start applying for masters and phd from now on itself?

my pub is horrible tho man. i just annotated a dataset and trained two models on it

[tacit lark]

Look at masters in europe/canada

[noble cloak]

canada is expensive

[tacit lark]

Where youre more likely to get funding

[noble cloak]

im applying to germany

[tacit lark]

MAsters in canada are usually funded?

[noble cloak]

i was thinking of maybe getting a job for a few years before phd (tho idk if this would have been possible) for a house

[noble cloak]

ill check then. tho i heard they dont accept non canadians

[tacit lark]

Its not more expensive than 100k for ms in the states lol

That isnt true

[noble cloak]

yeah but at least in states avg salary for softE is a lot more

[tacit lark]

Bru we arent talking about swe

[noble cloak]

at least the numerous statistics i have read

[noble cloak]

swe?

[tacit lark]

Softe

[noble cloak]

then? CS?

[tacit lark]

Why does the average SOFTE salary matter?

[noble cloak]

.

[tacit lark]

We arent talking about job salaries?

[hearty radish]

Spending >100k total for two years let alone living costs is not worth it if your goal is to end up doing a PhD and living off of stipends for 4-5 years

[noble cloak]

yeah..

[shell kindle]

Buying a house? In the us?

[hearty radish]

So funded masters should be looked at in general, which are not the US

[noble cloak]

well i wanted to eventually have the security of that.. plus if u are paying installments at least it goes towards an asset rather than rent which is just neg from ur salary

[noble cloak]

yeah ok. ill look at europe

seems like my best bet. plus many of my friends will go there too

[tacit lark]

Youre all over the place. Try to think about what you want to do.

[noble cloak]

ill still apply to unis with deadlines on 1st/29th then maybe have a discussion with my family/advisors and firue it out. but thnx for all the advice

[noble cloak]

yeah

as i said. i dont feel that id get into any good phd program and my prof said that a better option would be to get into a good masters program and work my way up from there

or wait a year and get some pubs and then apply for phd

[tacit lark]

But now youre talking about getting a job and a house lol

[noble cloak]

i did want a house.. but ig that wont be possible

maybe its just a culture thing. where im from everyone has a house and its kind of a security

[noble cloak]

is this possible tho? at the same uni/different uni? or is that against some rules?

[tacit lark]

Youre out of touch if you like you were going to spend a ton of money to get a masters and then get a job and try to buy a house with all that debt and then get into a phd program and either sell your house or continue making mortgage payments and loan payments while in a phd.

[noble cloak]

hmm yeah

[umbral escarp]

Any German masters students here?

[rapid dawn]

is it normal to cite papers in statements of interest?

like if I'm mentioning research I did to link my paper

[tacit lark]

Ya that seems reasonable

[raven sun]

I feel like if it’s in your cv then what’s the point?

[tacit lark]

It certainly doesnt hurt.

[sacred estuary]

Does saying something like 'what I have done so far is mostly elementary but I hope to contribute in a more significant way to TCS and combinatorics' hurt? I basically don't want the rest of the statement to sound like I think too highly of my projects, but I don't know if stating it like this is the right way to do it.

[torpid echo]

Don’t give them a reason to doubt you

You don’t need to lie, but you shouldn’t already set the expectation to be low

You can reframe it like “I have enjoyed what I have already done, and am excited to contribute to the subject in the future after continuing my studies”

Or something like that

[inner solar]

Wtf you have a pub

[noble cloak]

yeah?

its not at a great conference but eh

[noble cloak]

btw i experimented and i think u can apply to as many masters programs + 3 phd programs at once in CMU. totalling almost 10-12 programs. idk if its a good idea but it does put my conundrum at rest for the time being. i can then carefully decide (difficult to think over such important deep stuff rn cuz uni exams coming up)

[noble cloak]

sounds good to me personally. but asking others would be better. i would personally also perhaps add some stuff that i am looking forward to working on (more specifically) and the stuff im trying to get published/working on actively

for example, "my research has mostly been elementary, but currently im working on a license plate recognition model that achieves state-of-the-art results, outperforming previous models in size, efficiency, and speed. I look forward to submitting it to IJCAI, ECCV, or other conferences in the future."

[noble cloak]

that sounds really good. thnx a lot. definitely a good idea

[last heart]

Optinions on Caltech's PhD programs? I am interested in CS and their new CMS (Computing & Math. Sciences) program

But I am also more interested to learn about life there

[shell kindle]

Life in SoCal is very nice

[last heart]

Not a fan of sunny weather

[shell kindle]

No?

You won't like SoCal then

[last heart]

I can't stand weather over 28-30 celsius

What is the overall proportion of activities there?
Between research/courses/maybe TA stuff?

[inner grove]

So uhh don't move to pasadenia

pasadena*

[shell kindle]

Pasadena is a very nice place to live

It is also an expensive place to live

[inner grove]

Not if you don't like the heat

In august/september it gets kinda hot

Are you in socal now?

[shell kindle]

It only gets over 30 C during august/september

[last heart]

No I am just considering to apply

[inner grove]

Talking to Agne

[last heart]

ah ok

[shell kindle]

At the moment

[last heart]

are you studying there?

[shell kindle]

No I'm just back home for thanksgiving

[dry umbra]

can you only ask about pure math PhD programs here? what about mathematical physics or theoretical physics?

[dry umbra]

stuff like doing mathematically rigorous physics

indeed, fair enough

[tacit lark]

Sure but unless there are people here familiar with physics grad school apps then it wouldnt help.

[dry umbra]

why the 😐 ?

[rapid dawn]

how much detail should I go into on my research for statements of interest

like for the project I'm proudest of and is the most related to what I want to do in grad school should I say
a) "I did a project on this topic"
b) "I did a project on this topic. This is a high-level overview on our problem and result"
or
c) ""I did a project on this topic. This is a high-level overview on our problem and result. This is a high-level overview on our proof"

[tacit lark]

Bc that tells us nothing about what you mean. Plenty of theoretical physics and mathematical physics is mathematically rigorous.

[tacit lark]

Id go with b. Unless you have a lot of space or the proof is particularly interesting. You can also broadly mention tools/techniques you used.

[gritty ruin]

I personally would go more towards b

[inner solar]

b is the way to go I think, I'm relying on letters to fill in those parts of c

[wary pond]

Is it possible to live in Pasadena on a PhD stipend

[shell kindle]

I mean Caltech probably pays well

[hearty radish]

Yeah I think stipends are generally reasonable, but you’ll be able to tell once you get an offer letter with exactly how much that is

[tacit lark]

If you only have to support yourself then you should be ok

[shell kindle]

Sharing a 2 bed 1 bath apartment with another grad student in Pasadena is very doable I believe

[ocean kiln]

Is it a bad idea for me to say that I want to work on a topic that requires two advisors? For example, I want to work on the connections between X and X' so Dr. A and Dr. A' would be good choices for me as A specializes in X and A' specializes in X'.

Where X and X' are not fields where there are a lot of people who do both

For example, an example of something that would not be an X and X' pair here would be algebraic geometry and number theory

Since there are a lot of people who do arithmetic geometry

[smoky jetty]

So I know someone who is doing something similar-ish

they're doing algorithms research + human-computer interaction research

and really since there's very very few people doing that combination of research, much less at my uni alone

She was saying that it's basically all on her to figure out how to meld the two together

She was also saying that she has a primary advisor who is in one of those areas, and the advisor in the other area is technically a "secondary advisor" (although I'm not sure about the significance of that)

One thing she told me about that (since I'm debating doing something along those lines, albeit maybe even more far apart) is that it's alot more work and you have to be comfortable working on your own in terms of research (i.e. have prior research experience)

since not only do you have to do a PHD, but you have to do it in a combination of areas where that combination may not be fleshed out

also it depends on the school

some schools may be chill with you doing this, some may not

idk how much of this makes sense, I'm kinda just parroting some advice I've gotten before

so if anyone else has more concrete advice, plz jump in

[noble cloak]

Depends on the word count ig, I wish I could add arxiv links in my SoP

I usually write a longer essay then trim the fat as per word count limitations of the uni

[noble cloak]

What is HCI anyways?

[last heart]

Do I have a chance in enrolling at Caltechs phd if I have one E grade in my masters transcript?

[noble cloak]

id think if u had a good explanation for the E, it should be. but also ask others

[last heart]

it is the lowest grade I have
just needed some compulsory credits for unrelated stuff

maybe I can try to remove it from my transcript by taking another course instead?

[last heart]

Actually I read that there is no minimum GPA requirement and GPA should not be reported for international applicants

However I still have to attach my transcript

I am not sure what to do

[smoky jetty]

How many REUs is too many to apply to?

For example, is 20 too many?

I don't want to piss off my letter writers 💀

[shell kindle]

Submitting letters is not a hassle

They just upload once and then submit to all of them

[smoky jetty]

well they have to change school names and shit right?

[shell kindle]

Maybe

[smoky jetty]

so is 20 too many? is more ok?

basically I want to make sure I have something for the summer

other than my home uni

[shell kindle]

There are alternatives to REUs

Like I never got into any

[tepid forum]

unless you request them like a day before the deadline I don't think they'll care about 20

based off mine they can shoot them off pretty quickly

might be a bit tedious but I'm sure they'll understand

[ocean kiln]

Most letter writers write generic letters

And most REUs use mathprograms.org

So they won't have to upload the letters 20 times

[tacit lark]

^

Idk how many i applied to but it was a lot

I basically applied to anything that sounded remotely interesting on mathprograms.org

[smoky jetty]

yea that's my plan

[smoky jetty]

such as?

I mean TBH for me my options are (as far as I know)
1: continue my current research at my university for the summer
2: do an internship
3: do an REU

Option 1 sounds boring, I'd like to see somewhere new

Option 2 sounds awful, I already have done two software internships and disliked both greatly

so I'm looking at option 3 which has the nice bonus of being something good for grad school apps ig

[torpid echo]

I studied the Shit over the summer

Instead of doing an REU

[noble cloak]

whats REU?

[smoky jetty]

Research experience for undergraduates

My understanding is you go and do some sort of work on some small problem

Learn some cool stuff

Meet people/scout out a school for grad school

Sounds like an overall good time

[shadow bobcat]

A lot seem to give housing too

[smoky jetty]

Oh yea that too

Very essential

[tacit lark]

One day id like to be a mentor for an REU

[smoky jetty]

how do letters of rec work for mathprograms.org

Do letter writers just write one generic letter?

or do they upload a new one every time I apply to something through there that needs a letter?

[smoky jetty]

Oh same question for cover letters (is that the same as statement of purpose / research statement?)

[rapid dawn]

Yeah it's this

There's a general place to upload documents where you can also add recommender. And then when you apply to specific programs you can select which documents you want to use

For statements/cover letters though it's probably a good idea to make a separate one for each program

[smoky jetty]

and then is it the same for the research statement?

ok cool, I just was unsure if I had the option to write a different one or not

I'd much rather write a tailored letter

[rapid dawn]

Yeah you can and should write a different statement for each program.

But you can obviously reuse a lot

[smoky jetty]

but the mathprograms page makes it sounds like you can only write one

that's what I've been doing

for REUs outside of mathprograms

[rapid dawn]

There's also support for having your letter writers write tailored letters but that would be very unusual

[smoky jetty]

nah that's alot of work on their end

[rapid dawn]

Yeah it would be a pretty rare circumstance where that would make sense

[noble cloak]

should i call my undergraduate research projects REU?

[noble cloak]

that sounds good

we usually just get forced to work menial data logging jobs for 0 money. or to work on something non-menial, that a company would pay decent penny for.. also for 0 money.

[shadow bobcat]

Probably not REUs are things that typically over the summer research projects which you get paid a stipend for typically at a university other than your own (though if your university hosts one you can apply)

[noble cloak]

yeah our uni hosts such things but we call them UGRP (undergrad research projects)

no one pays anyone anything for anything as an intern/research assistant here. u r just supposed to work for the "experience" and a mediocre "certificate of participation" and a potential LoR

[noble cloak]

@shell kindlehey can u help me with how to phrase the diversity statement part. u said before:

Ok so for diversity statements, you do not need to necessarily talk about yourself
Indeed, for people with past challenges, writing about past trauma can be obscene in a sense, as if the only reason it happened was to prove that you are a capable person
Instead, for a diversity statement, a common thing to talk about is community outreach
So for math, this can take the form of mentoring younger students, reaching out to K-12 institutions in the community, helping to run the undergrad math club, etc...

But I don't quite get how to start of/introduce such a thing. any advice on that?
It just seems like i am not answering the question itself but answering how i have tried to do some of my part to help the larger society
if u have an example it could help. thnx

[tepid forum]

So for math, this can take the form of mentoring younger students, reaching out to K-12 institutions in the community, helping to run the undergrad math club, etc...
also what do we do if we've done none of these things lmao

[ocean kiln]

There's still some time until December 1 (AFAIK earliest grad school deadline) so...

[tepid forum]

What do I do in 7 days lmao

In my Berkeley statement I just showed awareness of social issues since that seemed to fit the brief

[noble cloak]

sheesh

[noble cloak]

exactly lol

i have exams going on otherwise i really wanna apply to CMU on 29th.. will see if i can

[noble cloak]

still. someone help me with this pls

[tepid forum]

i think during my PhD i'll have to collect a load of this stuff

I would've done this sort of thing if any specific opportunities cropped up but I wasn't aware of any

[ocean kiln]

Are you part of your university's math club?

You could maybe talk about that

[tacit lark]

No

[tepid forum]

oh i do have stuff like that

i'm writing an article for student magazine @ my undergrad uni etc.

does that sort of thing count

[noble cloak]

yeah for the most part i was seeking such stuff out cuz i knew it would help in grad apps

the only thing i dont have is leadership roles. other than informally becoming somewhat of a leader in research projects as everyone else was not very familiar with CV/DL/ML or even coding. but i think saying that may just make me seem pompous/arrogant since it wasnt a formal leadership role

[noble cloak]

wait. why not? or do we mean something different when we say this?

because our uni has flyers for undergraduate research projects and we spend a few months (maybe more) on these projects. it sounds pretty similar to REU

[noble cloak]

thats pretty useful, especially if u have a leadership role. but i still have 0 clue how u would connect that to diversity

[noble cloak]

that sounds good

[candid quarry]

I think REU is the name of a specific program for US undergraduates

[noble cloak]

oh

ill just call them undergrad research projects ig

just call em what the university calls em. that way, if its wrong, its their fault

[candid quarry]

Ye

[noble cloak]

they also call a glorified peon job a "student ambassador" 😂

[tepid forum]

i don't have any leadership roles

I thought this was all stuff that mattered for undergrad apps not postgrad

luckily berkeley is the only one asking about this and I'm not gonna get in there anyway lol

[noble cloak]

idk. theres a section on my grad app advisor and people say it matters. 🤷‍♂️ not sure

by postgrad u mean masters or...?

[noble cloak]

lol. try ur best ig

[tepid forum]

phd

[tacit lark]

Yes it’s similar but an REU is a specific NSF sponsored research program. Its not just any undergrad research program.

[noble cloak]

thnx. ill just put in undergrad research program/project

[tacit lark]

I dont think its a huge deal. Just put in a little effort to write a decent essay.

[smoky jetty]

For this mathprograms site, should I have both a cover letter and a research statement? I'm not sure what I would write to differentiate the two

like it has both here

Can I just ignore these?

All I have for now is a research statement I tailor to each place I apply to

[shell kindle]

You need both

[smoky jetty]

Interesting

ok so what is the difference?

[tacit lark]

Ya i remember not really applying to ones that had a cover letter i was lazy lol.

[noble cloak]

any such resources for computer science by any chance?

[smoky jetty]

I've asked around and I can't find anything 💀

I wish lol

[placid wagon]

i'm going straight from a BS to a PhD, but as a consequence of that i haven't taken courses in a lot of areas i might be interested in. but most universities still require me to name specific faculty and research topics. i feel like if i name a couple faculty members, i'd be locking myself into whatever fields those faculty members are in. and maybe my true passion is in a field i have no idea about yet, so i don't list an advisor that would be really good for me. and then what if my application is declined because the faculty i listed aren't interested (i don't know how big a role this question plays in my acceptance)?
but i also don't want to list half the people who teach at the university either just because they list a research interest i think i might like, based on my limited undergrad understanding.

[shell kindle]

There is no requirement to work with the faculty you list

[tacit lark]

^^

[shell kindle]

Presumably if you are going from bachelors to PhD then you are in the US but yes that’s fair

[tacit lark]

You arent expected to know exactly what you want to to. Its common for a grad student’s interests to change. Just list faculty that do something you think is interesting.

[placid wagon]

oh okay. someone told me the people i list was a really important deciding factor in my application. when does one pick an advisor anyway? do i do that my first year?

[placid wagon]

basically "don't overthink it"? lol

[tacit lark]

Yes, i wouldnt overthink it lol.

[placid wagon]

overthinking this kinda stuff is my specialty, but i'll try my best 😆

[tacit lark]

Its hard not too. Good luck! Also, dont be afraid to ask your the people writing your letters of rec for advice.

[shell kindle]

You pick an advisor whenever you find one that aligns with your interests, generally before the end of your third year

[placid wagon]

oh wow that's really down the line. kind of confusing that they make this a part of the application... i guess it shows which candidates have a strong idea of what they want to do or something? or how well they know the school?

[smoky jetty]

Alot of stuff seems more down the line than I've been led to believe lol

[shell kindle]

So usually, if you aren't sure about what you want to do, you go to a large school with many people in a variety of areas

[smoky jetty]

Hell someone told me that if I was unsure between a math and CS PHD, I could apply to both at the same school and pick from there as needed lol

[shell kindle]

But if you already know what you want to do, that can make things easier, especially if you want to go to a small, more focused, school

And like if you know you want to work with someone, then you can get started working with them in your first year

[raw quail]

do you think it's better to leave out languages rather than put in a language I'm not great at?

[noble cloak]

lol. u applying for CS too?

[noble cloak]

i reckon its also that they dont want someone who only wants to be at the uni cuz its high ranking or something. most unis prefer to know why u would specifically want to go for them instead of the other 30 unis that are also top ranking and have great researchers

[noble cloak]

lmfao yeah. im unsure between masters and PhD and im likely gonna do the same (just gets hella expensive because CS also has specializations i would be interested in)

[noble cloak]

i wouldnt put it as language 1. tho id still add it. but idk whats the best strat

[raw quail]

I don't have other languages

[noble cloak]

English?

[raw quail]

this is specifically for second languages

lol

[noble cloak]

oh

ok

🤷‍♂️

[raw quail]

Yeah I guess I leave it

[noble cloak]

i would still add it

[raw quail]

yeah

I think they'll think it's weirder to see it on my transcript and not there

[noble cloak]

hmm

the limited french i know, id have listed all as poor

[raw quail]

right I'm being very generous with my reading skills

[smoky jetty]

Debating between specifically something in pure math (probably algebraic), complexity theory, or algorithms

[noble cloak]

right

i feel like i did the wrong thing choosing ML/CV. too competitive rn and its much harder to publish research without computational resources/money

doesnt help that our uni is pretty bad and doesnt have GPUs

[noble cloak]

i come up with decent ideas (sometimes even sure-shot ways to improve performance) with no way to test/publish such stuff. unlike in algos, where u can just test such stuff within seconds

[noble cloak]

wouldnt u end up doing comp theory if u did algos anyways? like pretty easy to pivot between the two?

[sacred estuary]

Not quite. I'll be extremely rough in what follows but it should give you some idea. Complexity theory is often more interested in lower bounds, but of course algorithms do occur. It is just that roughly the kind of algorithms you see in complexity have in some vague sense, different objectives or flavours than what one cares about in 'usual' algorithms. Here by algorithms in complexity theory I am including upper bounds in different models of computation, or reductions, but there could be other things as well. Another rough distinction is that (unless you do fine-grained complexity), just polynomial time is often good enough in complexity theory while a person in algorithms would care about n^5000 vs n^2.

[noble cloak]

hmm thnx

i just felt it may be easy enough to pivot/decide between the two once at uni. but ig im wrong

[noble cloak]

often times in any real applications we also care about the constants to some extent

[smoky jetty]

Applications are overrated

But yes lol

[smoky jetty]

I'm taking a course in fine grained complexity rn

It's quite interesting

[inner solar]

Complexity theory is great

Lower bounds are rare though

Very rare

[smoky jetty]

They're all conditional lol

Reductions are quite entertaining but concrete results are a pain

[inner solar]

Then "lower bounds" is just "reductions" xD

[inner solar]

There are some very elegant concrete lower bounds though

[smoky jetty]

True

[inner solar]

Have you read Rasborov-Smolensky?

[smoky jetty]

No what is that

[inner solar]

They introduced a polynomial method for showing lower bounds on circuit classes

Very very elegant

[smoky jetty]

Ooo

I'll look at that later

Yea algebraic complexity stuff is probably what I want to do

But I know basically nothing about it tbh

I heard something about an 'algebraic geometry program' with regards to P vs NP

Sounds interesting but I know nothing about geometry

[inner solar]

The core idea is this:
It was originally used to show that mod 2 cannot be computed by a circuit family called AC^0

They roughly showed that for every AC^0 circuit, there's a polynomial in F_3 that approximates the circuit function "well". They then showed that any F_3 polynomial differs from mod 2 in a large number of places. So this contradicts the assumption that an AC^0 circuit exists for mod 2.

[smoky jetty]

Next semester I'm taking a course tho

[inner solar]

Yeah geometric complexity theory

[smoky jetty]

Yea

[inner solar]

There was a pretty long seminar on it in my college

I don't know it either

[smoky jetty]

I'm lucky that my university has someone in complexity

Well, ok that's a stretch

He's mainly a geometer but he does some fine grained stuff

And the course I'm taking with him is nice

[inner solar]

There are plenty of good resources for complexity theory, although it always helps to have discussions

[smoky jetty]

Yea

[inner solar]

What kind of complexity have you explored so far?

[smoky jetty]

Just fine grained tbh only because that's the only non-intro complexity course I've taken

I'm taking a course in algebraic and geometric complexity next semester

Very excited for that

[inner solar]

Oo sounds amazing

[noble cloak]

lol

[smoky jetty]

Yea I'm super hyped for that

Also going to take algebraic geometry next semester

That'll be a good pairing

Although I haven't heard good things about the prof

[noble cloak]

i (and people i know) find theory overrated cuz many people come up with absolutely stupid stuff yet get best paper awards at top conferences

but to each their own

[smoky jetty]

They get best paper awards at top theory conferences

[noble cloak]

tho i like both tbh. i know people who are far more application oriented than me

[noble cloak]

yeah

[smoky jetty]

So that's not really saying anything

[noble cloak]

even tho its the most asinine moves in practice

[smoky jetty]

But the point isn't practice

[inner solar]

What kind of stupid stuff?

[noble cloak]

in math id understand. but in AI idk wtf ud do from some of these theoretical papers

[smoky jetty]

That's a fruitless argument since any theory person will say that in reality alot of the theory has giant footnotes in it

[noble cloak]

like spending 10x more time on training for no reason

[smoky jetty]

AI != Theory

[inner solar]

Oh idk about AI stuff

[noble cloak]

yeah just my experience. but eh. as i said. to each their own

[smoky jetty]

Most theory people look at ML papers and think it's a bunch of people who are mainly guessing at how it works

Without actually understanding it

[noble cloak]

ML has theoretical papers

[noble cloak]

like this

[smoky jetty]

I agree it does

But when people say CS theory

[noble cloak]

didnt quite get u

[smoky jetty]

They are not talking about AI

They are talking about algorithms and complexity

Information/coding theory

[noble cloak]

hmm ok

[smoky jetty]

Formal methods

Stuff like that

Not AI/ML

[noble cloak]

as i said, its just my experience (which is highly influenced by ML since thats mostly what i do)

some ML papers are gigachad both theoretically and practically tho

[smoky jetty]

And so are some theory papers

[noble cloak]

and some point to completely wrong theory but work so well practically that we just ignore that part and use em anyways

[noble cloak]

yeah i just dont like such papers, especially when they win awards and cause others to adopt similar asinine strats

just cuz it becomes a trending field after a stupid paper gets best paper award in best conferences. its like "they did something so stupid and got best paper award, surely we can do a lot better"

[inner solar]

I think the immediate goal of theoretical research is just different from applied. I've seen many theory papers avoid obvious optimisations because they tend to obfuscate the main contributions of the paper.

[noble cloak]

hmm yeah

idk about CS theory papers too much tbh

[noble cloak]

does this have to do a lot with automatas and TOC? cuz i absolutely hate those (studying for em rn)

[inner solar]

https://www.cmi.ac.in/~kv/cmitalk.pdf

@smoky jetty check this out

[smoky jetty]

Sometimes

But not all of it

[noble cloak]

thnx man will do

[smoky jetty]

Automata theory is it's own thing

[noble cloak]

hmm nice

im gonna fail

in fourier analysis and TOC. im not even studying for AI...

[noble cloak]

hmm interesting

theres also some computational linguistics which idk what they do. something about making nice compilers that are easier for humans to interpret

[smoky jetty]

But yea I should figure out at some point what field I want to go into lmfao

[raw quail]

automata theory my beloved

also why is UChicago demanding my reccomender's phone numbers

idk them

[noble cloak]

u dont know ur reccomenders? 😂

[raw quail]

yeah just putting random names at this point

[noble cloak]

u should tutor me. id pay u (tho im a bit broke so not much)

if i have any doubts in ToC may i ask u?

[raw quail]

uhh if you want, I'm pretty active in #foundations which is probably the appropriate channel

[smoky jetty]

What kind of stuff do you do in automata theory?

I've never really taken a deep look at it

[raw quail]

I'm kinda interested in automatic structure theory which is when you take your normal algebraic structures like groups and rings and ask when the operations are computable by finite state automata

I haven't studied it much yet tbh but it's connected to geometric group theory and model theory which are fields I do know more about

[smoky jetty]

Oooo that sounds cool

[tepid forum]

Aaaaa I'm changing my school list again

Thinking of swapping GA Tech with WashU or IU, I really should just make my mind up xd

[noble cloak]

i need some advice: I have my exams going on, and early application deadline for CMU is 1st. Would it be better to rush an application a bit (but still decent) for early application, or just wait till 12th December for regular application deadline?

basically: for CMU, early application + decent SoP Vs. regular application + great SoP?

[noble cloak]

cant u apply to all?

[tepid forum]

I could but money

All of my options except GA tech I'd be happy going to so it's getting the boot

[noble cloak]

i doubt 1-2 courses would add that much to ur cost. but yeah i get ur point

[noble cloak]

bro if i got GA tech i would pop a bottle of champagne, cry, call all my friends, have a party, cry some more, and sleep

(FYI alcohol is illegal here)

[crimson valve]

i think u should consider subbing in waterloo instead lol

[tepid forum]

I think their deadline is 1st Dec so probably too late. I think I'll do both WashU and IU

The guy at IU said he's getting old though

[noble cloak]

none of their deadlines are 1st Dec afaik

for fall sem i mean

they usually go on till january/feb and beyond

[shell kindle]

(Once again for math)

(As mentioned in the channel description)

[inner solar]

In what field?

[noble cloak]

math too yes

both applied and pure

none of them are before jan 1st for starting in September

this is for applied math

it says MMath tho which may mean masters of math

im trying to get my SoPs done for UoT by dec 1 too

[tepid forum]

functional analysis (operator theory/algebras)

[tepid forum]

it does

[tepid forum]

wing suet li says she's not doing this anymore

[noble cloak]

hmm i read from googles preview so it seemed like it was jan 1, but applied math is still open if that suits u by any chance

phd in comp sci will be over soon too

[tepid forum]

ya they're all in pure

I think I'll just apply to both WashU and Indiana and ask my referees tonight to slide a reference in last minute

well, last minute, deadline is 15th dec

indiana is jan 15th so I'll just ask with my UK options

[noble cloak]

none of my referees profs are from "top unis" or have any connections there so im a bit worried about that

[undone yacht]

I am so happy I am in Sweden, here we do not do LOR. 🙂

[noble cloak]

nice lol

[undone yacht]

it is such a waste of time for everybody

[smoky jetty]

Eh I think letters have their place

Especially for me where my grades are becoming less than ideal considering where I want to go 💀

[undone yacht]

Just have people as references that are to be contacted. The variance between letter writers styles makes the document practically useless to predict success.

Things will probably not change internationally for many years, just happy I am out of that burden 🙂

[lethal minnow]

I wish letters of rec weren't a thing tbh

I do not come from a very good school and I certainly think my letter writers are not very well-known people

So that significantly impairs the value they carry and I can do nothing about it

[shell kindle]

In my experience the background of the letter writers did not make that much of a difference for my applications

[torpid echo]

It definitely does

[shell kindle]

One of my letter writers was a well known professor who had won prestigious awards and he said that he could only do 8 letters for some reason so I found someone else to do the other 7 and the other person was a pretty new postdoc and I definitely did better at schools where I had the postdoc letter and not the professor letter

[raven sun]

This. I have had someone accept me to an REU and later say all they did was read my letters from two profs they know and accept me

[tepid forum]

I'm lucky I have 3 references tbh

I only have 3 because I switched from maths & something to just maths and got a different advisor

It's not really a fair system but I think it's got more upsides than down

there'll be fairness problems as long as there are universities that aren't as good as others and I'm not sure if you can really ever eliminate that

[undone yacht]

probably same outcome if there was no LOR and they were just references (if there was no LOR for applications)

[tepid forum]

?

what's the difference between an LOR and a reference I thought they were synonyms

[raven sun]

A reference is someone to be contacted abt an applicant

Rather than a letter is written for them

But the point was more that prestige does have an impact—or more like people knowing each other does

[undone yacht]

Just en email/phone number in the application. If applicant is of interest then they might be contacted

[tepid forum]

ohhhh like a phone call instead

ic

that's quite a lot of work for the referee though?

[undone yacht]

people are very seldom actually called (I have been in several committees and nobody has ever been contacted as far as I know)

[tepid forum]

fair enough

[undone yacht]

It is quite obvious if an applicant is flat out lying about a reference (they could fake LOR too I assume) and if it is somebody in the committee that knows a reference they might just send a quick email for sanity check. I have only been part of employing PhD students.

[lethal minnow]

LoRs are probably harder to fake because the writers are supposed to email them from their institutional accounts, right?

[undone yacht]

I have written 2 LOR for people going abroad and both times I uploaded it on webserver, don't think I supplied my email there, maybe I did

[lethal minnow]

Oh, I see

[undone yacht]

anyway, LOR are necessary for pretty much anywhere else (might be a nordic countries thing not to have it)

[smoky jetty]

LoRs are nice for some things

tho I guess I think it's because I'm lucky to have some things under my belt

like I can ask my current research advisor for a LOR that speaks to my research experience

which is really nice to have

but I bet if I was in a position where all my letters were like "yea idk he did well in my class I guess"

then I'd probably be singing a different tune

[raven sun]

USCD really knows how to write a website

[lone lantern]

when applying and sending recommendation letters what do you put for relationship

do you state the class they were a professor for in a full sentence or smth?

[raven sun]

I just put Professor or Research Advisor depending on which

[torpid echo]

No matter what you do DON’T put down “lover”

[vivid drift]

"My favourite professor"

"At least until you admit me"

[rapid dawn]

when I'm talking about my interest in math education in grad school statements how specific should I be?

in the sense of "I want to try to implement the techniques and philosophy outlined in these resources"

for my GRFP application I more or less was like "writers A and B greatly shaped my thoughts on math education, in particular I think ideas X and Y of theirs are very insightful and I plan to implement them in my classrooms when I become a professor"

I mean I didn't phrase it like that but that was the gist of a lot of what I was saying

now for grad school apps I'm wondering if I should keep all that specificity or speak in more general terms

[lone lantern]

How do you decide what you should talk about in your SOP. I realized I can give a chronology but its probably not what anyone wants. How and what should I be communicating

[crimson valve]

yo anyone applying to waterloo? my application portal does not have the option for like

CV/personal statement???

am i going crazy

[rapid dawn]

not relevant to your question but are you applying for model theory?

because I'm also applying to schools for model theory and that school never crossed my radar

[crimson valve]

nah im applying for operator algebras and adjacent

wow this portal is stupid

turns out theres 2

u finish the first one which is personal info, and then put in the rest

[rapid dawn]

lmao

[tacit lark]

I remember being very confused too lol @crimson valve

[rapid dawn]

no

I really just should have said "teaching and diversity statement"

also unrelated but can I list preprints in order of relevance instead of date on my CV if they're all within a few months of each other?

[gritty ruin]

Where are you applying?

[rapid dawn]

don't want to dox my full list

[gritty ruin]

Fair

[tacit lark]

Why not lol

[sacred estuary]

Lol Waterloo's portal is seriously weird. You can't even see what file has been uploaded. At least they mention on their site that you can mail the support team in case you goof up.

[tacit lark]

Yea it was super weird

I remember being super confused ab how to upload the SOP

[sacred estuary]

The SOP just has to be copied into some text box, right? Washington also does the same iirc.

Should really get on finishing my Waterloo app now, just a few days left.

[tacit lark]

Yea i remember typing it

They had a few questions like uwash

[torpid echo]

Yeah UW’s application is kinda cringe

[rapid dawn]

if a school says N word maximum for statements, how important is it to hit that maximum?

my general purpose statement that I'll modify for each individual school will be around 2 pages so ~1500 words, but UC Irvine has 2 statements each with 1200 word maximum

[crimson valve]

you definately dont wanna go over it, thats a very bad look

oh sorry i miscounted

well i think the admission people like, prefer more consise things

so if you think you have included all you need to well below the word limit thats fine

[candid quarry]

Why is the school saying N word

[sacred estuary]

So it's fine if a school says roughly two pages (like UT Austin) but my statement is just essentially a page?

[noble cloak]

dont think even the people admitting u want u to be too attached to ur previous profs/advisors 😂

[noble cloak]

their support team is amazing tho

i once had an issue (that i almost immediately resolved) but support staff kept pinging me and sent me 8 mails checking up if everything was working fine and if my issue was sorted (too bad most of them went in spam/promotion so i ended up wasting their time)

[noble cloak]

legit

[raven sun]

"My lovely associate"

[ocean kiln]

If you are applying to grad schools in the CSA, very

[noble cloak]

CSA?

[sinful crane]

Confederate states of america

[noble cloak]

damn nice pfp lol

[sinful crane]

Thanks

[sterile bone]

There is a place. to upload an sop in the uw app

Tho

[tacit lark]

Im pretty sure he’s talking about Uwash which doesnt.

[tepid forum]

how do you decide when your application is done lol

my trigger finger is itching on most of mine

but also I'm scared I'll think of something to change tomorrow or something : s

[hearty radish]

I think I just submitted and tried to forget about it until later

I don't think there's really much that can happen between now and the application deadline that makes your application that much stronger unless you're anticipating something

[tepid forum]

ye ye ik, all of the tweaks I've been making make pretty much zero difference

considering my LoRs aren't changing

might have dinner then shoot off UIUC

[sterile bone]

Ah, that's not confusing at all

[tepid forum]

i was confused whether UW meant waterloo wisconsin or washington lol

[tacit lark]

I just said fuck it and submitted them

When i was overall happy and thought any other changed would be nitpicky.

[rapid dawn]

Ok I've now heard contradictory advice about this from different professors. Should I or should I not include course descriptions in my CV and how long can my CV be?

[tepid forum]

i doubt you'd have enough space?

though my course descriptions are all online and i just linked them

[rapid dawn]

Can't a CV be long?

Like mine is currently over 4 pages

[hearty radish]

Make sure you're not over describing things. A short explanation is good, but it's easy to accidentally pad for length

That's kind of what I've heard and realized

If an application already asks for courses/course description, perhaps it's not really necessary to add courses or course description to your CV

[rapid dawn]

Yeah I'm giving concise descriptions

Like for measure theory "topics include sigma algebras, measures, Lebesgue integration, Lp spaces, Banach spaces, Hilbert spaces"

[rapid dawn]

How big of a deal would it be if I also included them in my CV?

[hearty radish]

Probably negligible, I don't think graduate applications will be judging how good and professional a CV looks

[rapid dawn]

I can obviously just have separate CVs for the school that do vs don't ask for separate course summaries, but I also know that it's better to have important information in more places

Well the downside is less lack of professionalism and more adding an extra page to the document

But I suppose the most likely reaction on the part of the admissions committee would just be to skim that section of my CV if it was also listed elsewhere. And that wouldn't be a problem if both have the same information

[hearty radish]

Yeah that's true

When you're writing a cv later, less is usually more because there is an assumption of knowledge anyway

[rapid dawn]

Yeah that's what I figured

In applying to grad school strong coursework is the most important part of the application so give that more details. When applying to positions after grad school, papers and talks are more the focus

"this postdoc candidate looks good, but I'm a bit concerned about the rigor in their first year analysis course" said no one ever

[tacit lark]

I wouldn’t include course descriptions in cv. Ive never heard of anyone doing that.

[tepid forum]

I hyperlinked course descriptions when I wrote the list I'm doing

[smoky jetty]

Sorry to ping back to this but one or two REUs I really want to apply to want both a cover letter and research statement

do both of these have to be a page? Can you elaborate more on the difference?

Cause I feel my research statement is more of an overview right now anyways

(it would help if someone would be willing to read my research statement, that would probably be the most helpful but I know that's alot of work)

[tacit lark]

Sure you can send me your statement

[smoky jetty]

tysm

[smoky jetty]

that's what my research statement says

minus (3)

[rapid dawn]

My professor who knows these things well told me to

Also for schools that just require a statement of purpose/statement of interest does it make sense to make 1 page of it a "teaching and diversity statement?"

Even for schools that don't explicitly request one

I can fit pretty much all of the relevant stuff about mathematical background/interest in one page

And my professor said it was a good idea

[undone yacht]

Sounds like weird suggestions both for adding course descriptions, and writing equal amounts about research and teaching/diversity

[rapid dawn]

Well equal amounts wasn't his suggestion, he just said to include something about teaching/diversity

And to aim for 2 pages when a explicit page limit isn't provided

[ocean kiln]

I listed undergrad and grad classes separately because of this

[rapid dawn]

A big part for me is being able to mention the books used and chapters covered for my independent studies

[rapid dawn]

do REUs count for this?

[sterile bone]

hmm I wish I had done this now, I have a few of those but I think most places I care about let me upload a course list

[rapid dawn]

done what? Put course descriptions on your CV?

[placid wagon]

so i have to list some faculty i'd be interested in working with for my phd program. i know it's not binding, but i'm looking at this one faculty member has a bunch of publications relate to stuff i've independently researched, and looks really cool and interesting. the only problem is that he's 85 years old and hasn't published in over 5 years lol. i don't know if it would reflect badly on me to list someone like that?

[hearty radish]

For a PhD remember that you'll generally be working with them in 2 years if you're in the us and will be working 4-6 years in the future so it may be feasible, but they might retire before you're able to finish

Let alone start working with them

[placid wagon]

yeah i'm almost 100% sure i won't be (and potentially shouldn't be) working with them. and i'm wondering if that means i shouldn't mention that i admire their work under the section about "Faculty/groups you are interested in working with"

[hearty radish]

I don't think it has a bearing on your application, but if there is absolutely no one else, put them lowest on your priority

[gritty ruin]

Also worth pointing out some people "retire" and then still turn up and do stuff

[hearty radish]

Yeah that is true as well

[shadow bobcat]

Some people also end up working with multiple faculty one of my current professors actually worked with 3 different professors for their PhD

[shell kindle]

I am currently working with 3 different professors

[tepid forum]

I thought a lot of profs that retire see their students through?

Or at least you'd hope they'd sort them out with an alt supervisor without much pain

[torpid echo]

Yes but that means they don’t take on students if they think they’ll retire soon

[tepid forum]

oh i missed the context

I've been told even by people in their late 60s/early 70s that I should be careful since they might not be able to stick around long for references and such like

[tacit lark]

Ya definitely

[smoky jetty]

How does that work

[shell kindle]

It’s like working with one professor but you replace one with three

[smoky jetty]

Is one of them a primary advisor and the others secondary?

Or are you doing like 2 or 3 seperate projects?

[undone yacht]

I had seven different advisors for my PhD :--D (people moved and I also switch fields)

[smoky jetty]

Goddamn

[tacit lark]

It depends. It doesnt have to mean you work with all 3 simultaneously. You could just work closely with multiple professors throughout your phd.

[tepid forum]

am I correct in thinking international students don't pay FICA?

[smoky jetty]

I see

wouldn't that make a phd take longer??

[tacit lark]

No im not sure why that would have any affect

[shell kindle]

The stress of meeting with all 3 advisors each week makes me more productive

[tepid forum]

ig means you're pretty much sorted for postdoc referees lol

[tacit lark]

Ya my friends that work w multiple profs dont usually meet with all of them. It depends who they are working with more at that time

[smoky jetty]

I see

[smoky jetty]

Well you're spending less time on each project (by virtue of doing multiple)

Then again math / TCS is alot of just thinking and taking breaks

[tacit lark]

Like i said. It doesnt mean youre working with them all simultaneously.

Also, its common to have concurrent projects. More time != better. When youre stuck sometimes you need to look at something else.

[shell kindle]

Yeah I get to procrastinate on debugging my code for one project by writing buggy code for another

[undone yacht]

what is the subject?

[shell kindle]

Numerical methods for pdes

[undone yacht]

what kind? dg? cutfem?

[shell kindle]

Lagrangian discretizations

[undone yacht]

dunno what that is 🙂 seems to be used for weather/flow problems?

[shell kindle]

I am on a plane but I can explain once my flight lands

[bronze spoke]

when a program application says to briefly describe why you are interested in the topic we offer

how brief should you be?

about 1 page or like half a page?

I think I can always write more and then pare down

[rapid dawn]

does this include REUs?

I'd assume not

[tacit lark]

I didnt list it as work experience

[raven sun]

I think it depends on if there’s another field to put Reu stuff

If there isn’t then I would put it there

But reus are paid positions, pretending they aren’t work is stupid

(In my opinion)

[rapid dawn]

I'm listing REUs in my CV

[ocean kiln]

What do I list for "textbook used" if my professor didn't use one/used papers

[tepid forum]

None of my professors used textbooks so I just put one of the recommended textbooks

[inner grove]

just list the paper you used ^_^

[ocean kiln]

There's like 7 lol

[inner grove]

list 'em all

What's the hurt?

[ocean kiln]

Fair enough

[inner grove]

I'm getting all my apps done today

[raven sun]

King

[inner grove]

It's not my first rodeo for apps

[fluid totem]

Personal statements hard

I’ve done like 7 drafts

[ocean kiln]

Should I list courses taken outside my university that aren't graded?

For example, PCMI summer school

[rapid dawn]

You probably should somewhere

The question is where

I think some schools have a section for that in their application, otherwise maybe put it as a separate section on your CV?

[ocean kiln]

Where should I mention that I have taken and passed qualifying exams at my undergrad university for places that have you submit courses separately?

[rapid dawn]

Honestly the best (if unsatisfying) answer to most of these questions is "ask your advisor"

[inner grove]

Statement of purpose

[noble cloak]

yeah i was working under 3 profs once.. sadly chose the wrong ones to continue with... (ditched one of em and they would have been the best for my university applications since they are more well known)

but he himself kinda didnt care about the project so..

would anyone pls be willing to give me feedback on my SoP?

(i assume i shouldnt share it here out in public and dm instead, at least thats what people tell me)

[noble cloak]

what are these?

[fair needle]

did you apply through the US government to have a job at your university

in order to receive federal financial assistance for tuition

[fair needle]

pinging

it's a FAFSA program which gives financial aid for an on-campus job

[past plume]

I mention it early in my personal statement

[bronze spoke]

that might come in your letters of rec as well

[ocean kiln]

I just added it to the courses list document

Do you guys think they're gonna care that I included that even though its not a course?

[rapid dawn]

is it ok if I list courses currently in progress as "completed' on my CV since there's only like, a week left in the semester and they'll be completed when my applications are being read

but put the grade as "Awaiting"

[ocean kiln]

Yeah

I'm doing that too

[fluid totem]

If an app has a place for work experience, is it ok to cut and paste descriptions from my resume that they are also receiving?

I’d assume so but they could be weird

[tacit lark]

dont they ask for your transcripts?

[vale oar]

If I am submitting a graduate transcript (one semester’s worth) in addition to an undergraduate transcript (a degree’s worth), is it worth chancing schools where my undergraduate GPA is below their cutoff, or will my undergraduate GPA automatically kick me out the race? (My graduate GPA is of course well above the cutoff)

[ocean kiln]

Some of the schools are asking me for a resume instead of a CV

Is it fine to just submit my CV?

[shell kindle]

Yes

[hexed ibex]

UVA requires 2 or 3 rec letters

interesting

[ocean kiln]

Is it a bad idea to talk about only one faculty member in my personal statement?

I'm interested in many things (and I express that), but this one professor does stuff that I'm currently really interested in so he stands out

[tacit lark]

I wouldnt limit myself to one faculty if there are others that align with your interests.

I dont think it matters too much

[rapid dawn]

If they're a large part of the reason you're applying and you know for a fact they're taking students you should mention them

[tacit lark]

If you express your current interests and mention that Professor it will be obvious they align well with your current interests

[rapid dawn]

But yeah as Jek said you don't need to spend much time talking about the professor beyond just saying you'd be interested in working with them.

Unless you have something substantial to say

[rapid dawn]

I know it's not generally a good idea to propose a specific research topic in grad school applications, but what if I'm applying to a school where there are professors whose research interests intersect with my topic proposal for the GRFP? Would it be a good idea to at least give a passing mention of "this is a project that I'd be interested in working on, though I'd be interested in working on other things too"

[ocean kiln]

How about something like this?

At [school] Professor X stands out because of my interest in M. Since [school] has a strong department in Y and Z, I will have plenty of opportunities to explore research in Y and Z as well.

M is much narrower than Y and Z

The main problem I'm having is that there are too many people working in Y and Z and I don't know enough about the field to say who would be a good fit

[rapid dawn]

I'm saying

I am aware that [PROFESSOR] does research on Blah. I would thus be very interested in working with them on a project along these lines. There is a natural generalization of [MY PRIOR WORK] which has a link to X, a topic I know [PROFESSOR] has done research on. Thus one potential project I’d be interested in would be to explore this link in more detail. However I foresee myself being interested in a wide range of possible projects.

[tacit lark]

I wouldnt

[rapid dawn]

yeah I am very much on the line on whether to include that

probably I'll just cut it then

[ocean kiln]

What are your opinions on my thing?

[ocean kiln]

This

[tacit lark]

I guess its fine. Id get other opinions. You really should be asking the people that are writing your letters of rec.

[lapis cloak]

Does graduate math involve a lot of memorization?
What should I do if I am not good at memorizing theorems and it's proofs?

[tacit lark]

I wouldnt say it involves memorization, but you have to be able to remember things. The goal is to understand proofs or key ideas/techniques in a proof. Not rote memorization.

You should try to understand the theorem statement, why its important (in the context of your class). Understand the proof, key ideas, why the assumptions made in the theorem statement are required etc.

[marsh pawn]

just ooc how important is research on application for math grad school?
i dont have a lot of research but i have some p decent internships that are a bit higher than faang tier

[noble cloak]

No

Thnx

[tepid forum]

just about to make my donation to Berkeley

[tacit lark]

a lot of people dont have significant research, but it can help a ton. I dont think non-research internships will matter much.

[tepid forum]

there it goes

[shell kindle]

Wow on giving tuesday

[tepid forum]

thanks Berkeley wallet's crying now

[shell kindle]

Make sure to get that tax deducted

[tepid forum]

I'm glad I didn't have to do the GRE as well

that would've been another few hundred at least

[tacit lark]

Congrats

I donated to many schools last year

[torpid echo]

I made Berkeley pay for my donation (used their money to go to the open house then rejected the offer)

[noble cloak]

what does citation here mean?

[tacit lark]

The citation for your paper

[noble cloak]

no. of citations, right?

[tacit lark]

no

i think write out the citation for your paper

its also optional. i wouldnt worry about it.

Something like this: Reingold, O., Vadhan, S., & Wigderson, A. (2002). Entropy Waves, the Zig-Zag Graph Product, and New Constant-Degree Expanders. Annals of Mathematics, 155(1), 157–187. https://doi.org/10.2307/3062153

[noble cloak]

ohhhhh

thnx

ill do that

[noble cloak]

nice paper btw 👍

[noble cloak]

is it the application? or something else?

[hearty radish]

Presumably yes considering how expensive UC schools have become to apply to

[tepid forum]

yes

[lapis cloak]

Yeah i understand the issue
What i struggle with is that it's too abstract to grasp in few weeks
And i m supposed to be familiar with(or memorize) 20 theorems/properties and their proofs for an exam
Since i am struggling with it Am I supposed to even be in such a program?

[shell kindle]

This is not really appropriate for this channel, it probably fits better in #math-discussion or #advanced-lounge

[lapis cloak]

Right...i was wondering where to ask it
Thank you

[rapid dawn]

what does one say when following up with to a professor you've talked with about their school's graduate program to let them know you applied

like

Hi Professor Blah,

I am following up again to mention that I have submitted my application to [SCHOOL].
and then what do I say to close out the message that doesn't sound weird as fuck??

I guess like, "I look forward to your response"? Maybe?

"if you don't let me in I'll cry"

"I look forward to receiving your acceptance"

"think very carefully about how you proceed"

"just thought I'd share the tea"

what if I know for a fact that this professor will have some influence on reviewing the applications

[tacit lark]

Just let them know you applied and thank them.

[hearty radish]

Yeah, the thanking part is important I feel

Just express that you appreciated their correspondence over the last however long and you have applied to … university

[raw quail]

Oh shit I didn't even think about that. I guess I should thank the one person who responded to my emails

[hearty radish]

I didn’t email any professors beforehand

[rapid dawn]

oh also congrats on honorable Kirby

[hearty radish]

My graduate application experience was very scuffed bc I didn’t know anything about the process

Oh thanks :)

[rapid dawn]

oh wait and there are pronoun roles too?

[hearty radish]

I didn’t know NSF was a thing and stuff like that

[hearty radish]

Yeah, in #info

[raw quail]

Yeah we just added them today!

[rapid dawn]

nice!

[hearty radish]

It’s funny I didn’t talk with anyone who applied to schools until after the application process ended, and I realized I did a ton of things suboptimally

But I got lucky in the end, and here I am :)

[rapid dawn]

ok so what about like

Hi Professor Blah,

I am following up again to mention that I have just submitted my application to [SCHOOL]. I look forward to hearing back. Thank you again for our prior correspondence.

[hearty radish]

I think that’s fine

[noble cloak]

I would be greatful if you could assist me in improving my chances for an admit if possible. Hope/looking forward to work with you. Thank you. Regards. (Ofc only say this if the university is okay with it)

[noble cloak]

Man.. the more I talk to more and more people on this topic, the more I realise everyone has different mutually exclusive opinions. U likely did fine

[gritty ruin]

I mean, if you got where you want to be “suboptimal” doesn’t seem to be the appropriate descriptor.

[tacit lark]

Do not say that

[hearty radish]

You're probably right, I know everything was good enough in the end, but of course there's just a lingering feeling of things I could have done better to reduce stress levels if I had talked through my applications with people who were also in a similar situation like with what's happening in this channel

[shell kindle]

Not applying for NSF if you are eligible while you are applying during undergrad is objectively suboptimal I would say

[hearty radish]

Yeah, especially because it was because I didn't know it didn't exist until I saw people talking about it after the application period

[tepid forum]

yeah this is like you're asking for an unfair advantage

if the prof is excited about your application they'll push your file but probably won't take kindly to you telling them to do that

[tepid forum]

like the guy I emailed at Princeton said he can push for particular applicants in his area who look promising but ultimately the decision is up to a smaller group, probably similar elsewhere

[sacred estuary]

I think this was already discussed here at some point, but what is a reasonable way to email a potential advisor? Like what subject line to use, details to give, etc.?

[gritty ruin]

Okay yes, that's one thing that is suboptimal

[void gyro]

I have heard similar. Some professors replied that they are not part of the admissions committee but they will be asked their opinion if you mention them in your SOP

[wheat pelican]

how much of an impact of non-math courses on my gpa will impact phd apps?

[shell kindle]

Usually not too much

Some applications will have separate places for overall gpa and math gpa

[quick ruin]

Probably a long shot but is anybody else here applying to the Northeastern PhD program? I'm trying to submit my application and for some reason it wipes my program selection and it only lets me select the MS option now

Application's due on Dec. 1 so it's not like I missed the deadline or anything

Was just wondering if anybody else had the same problem and/or found a way to circumvent it

[ocean kiln]

Why do some schools ask you to write a personal statement on top of the academic statement?

The personal statement is just BS

[candid quarry]

Hold up isn't it due on Dec 31

Ye there website says Dec 31

Will be applying there, though I haven't tried submitting it yet

[sterile bone]

?