🔒 Def

[muted pebble]

Def thing I don't understand

[lavish sentinel]

@muted pebble

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[zenith jungle]

Ok. def is the python keyword for defining a function

a "function" is just a block of code that we can use later on

it's very useful when we want to re-use a specific block of code

Does this make sense?

[hoary shadow]

!d def

[lavish sentinel]

def

8.7. Function definitions

A function definition defines a user-defined function object (see section The standard type hierarchy):

[muted pebble]

I have a hard time communicating with programmers

[zenith jungle]

Only answer the questions I ask you

Don't stray from the discussion

[muted pebble]

Alr

[zenith jungle]

Is there anything I've said so far that you don't understand?

[hoary shadow]

have you used print()

[zenith jungle]

Let's avoid too many cooks for now

[hoary shadow]

no i just wanted to say that thats a function, so they already know how to use functions just not how to make em

[muted pebble]

No

[zenith jungle]

Ok great, let's continue

when we define a function, we give it a name, as well as any required "parameters"

We don't have to give our function any parameters. It really depends on what kind of function you're trying to create

Here's an example of a function with no parameters

def my_function():
    ...

@muted pebble What is the name of this function?

[muted pebble]

My_function?

[zenith jungle]

Yes, and how many parameters does it have?

[muted pebble]

I'm at 1st grade lvl math I suck at math

[hoary shadow]

this has nothing to do with math

[muted pebble]

What's a parameter.????

[zenith jungle]

This has nothing to do with math. If you've read what I've said so far, you should be able to answer my question

[zenith jungle]

What does this say here?

[muted pebble]

No premeters

[zenith jungle]

Ok great

[pallid sparrow]

Parameters are just variables of functions (like x = 2) they get values (called as arguments) whenever you call the function.

for example:

def my_function(x):
    print(x)

my_function(2)

[zenith jungle]

I'll explain what parameters are in a moment. For now, I'm just showing you how we structure a function

[zenith jungle]

I'm trying not to overwhelm, I'm taking this slow

Please let me focus on what I'm doing

[pallid sparrow]

I think mellow thought of term parameters is coming from math

[zenith jungle]

and I've already dispelled that

[pallid sparrow]

My bad. I will let you take it

[zenith jungle]

def function_two(param1):
    ...

Here's another function.

What's the name of this function?

[muted pebble]

Function_two?

[zenith jungle]

yes exactly

but this time, it has a parameter

This is how we define the required parameters for our function

we can include as many as we want or need

def many_parameters_func(p1, p2, p3, p4):
    ...

if we want 4 parameters, we can do this

The names are just like variables. We can name them whatever we want.

[muted pebble]

The p are parameters?

[zenith jungle]

yes

[muted pebble]

Alr

[zenith jungle]

Ok, now remember, a function is a block of code that we can use later on

to use the function after we define it, we "call" the function

as wild pointed out earlier, print() is an example

print is a function

print() is how we call it

we "call" a function by using the function's name followed by ()

Is there anything there you don't understand?

[muted pebble]

No

[zenith jungle]

Ok, print is a special exception in how it handles parameters so I won't continue talking about it for now

Have you seen the len function yet?

[muted pebble]

My English understanding is low grade

Even though I only speak English

[zenith jungle]

I'm not sure how to simplify that question

[winged quest]

@muted pebble stop talking about how incompetent you think you are. Please actually try, or let people have their time back.

[zenith jungle]

Realistically, if you struggle with english, you'll struggle with python too

The answer would be to improve your english first

[hoary shadow]

heres an example of a convo in very basic english.. you literally only use functions when you wanna reuse your code..
||

def express_sorrow():
    print("im so sorry about that")
def express_thanks():
    print("thanks you're the best")
def express_excitm():
    print("thats amazingly awsome")

# now you could just use them anywhere in your code without typing all that again

# example
print("x said to y my watch got stolen y replied:")
express_sorrow()
print("y said to x my pan also got stolen yesterday x said")
express_sorrow()
print("but it wasn't really stolen it uwas under my bed, y responded by saying:")
express_excitm()
```||

[muted pebble]

Brruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[zenith jungle]

Let's avoid giant blocks of code for now

Let's get back to my previous question

[hexed pike]

try to approach using games (trust me)

[muted pebble]

How do I learn English?

[winged quest]

Everyone should let Fashoomp work their magic.

[zenith jungle]

Study and practice. That's how you learn everything

but you're getting off topic again and again

[muted pebble]

Too much to learn bruh

[muted pebble]

let's go on topic

I'll try even harder

[zenith jungle]

Have you seen the len function in python yet?

[muted pebble]

No

[zenith jungle]

Do you understand what a string is in python?

[muted pebble]

I heard of it but I don't fully understand it

[hoary shadow]

you already understand print() tho right?

[zenith jungle]

Try and explain it to me with what you know

[zenith jungle]

one thing at a time

[muted pebble]

("")???

[zenith jungle]

string is how we represent text in python, and yes, we use "" around it to show that it's a string

"hello" is an example of a string

"goodbye" is an example of a string

Sometime we want to know how many letters are in a string

[hoary shadow]

yes with no () or ??? () is for #1475322281520660581 message as mentioned above

[zenith jungle]

Please stop veering them away from my questions

If we want to know how many letters a string has, we can use the len function

print(len("hello"))

[winged quest]

@hoary shadow Fashoomp is doing python help surgery here. Please let them do it

[zenith jungle]

@muted pebble what do you think the result of this is?

[hoary shadow]

-# i just pinged their own message btw nothing mine

[muted pebble]

It prints Hello?

[zenith jungle]

I just explained above what len does

[zenith jungle]

.

[muted pebble]

5?

[zenith jungle]

yes exactly 🙂

we can say the len function has "one parameter"

len()
len('abc', 'xyz')

We can't use len like this

len() with nothing inside the () doesn't make sense to python

len('abc', 'xyz') has too much information, and also doesn't make sense to python

Does that make sense to you?

[muted pebble]

So we can't put anything in len() ?

[zenith jungle]

we have to put exactly one piece of information inside

[muted pebble]

Only numbers?

[zenith jungle]

I didn't use any numbers in my example. Where did you get that from?

[muted pebble]

Oh idk

[zenith jungle]

Ok, so does it makes sense then?

[muted pebble]

Yes

[hoary shadow]

because it returns number?

[zenith jungle]

Sure but I never used any numbers in my arguments

[hoary shadow]

right

[zenith jungle]

Ok, so here's another term for you

"argument"

When we call a function, the information we provide inside the () are called the "arguments"

the arguments and parameters are related

When we define our function, we define the parameters. When we call our function, we provide 1 argument for each parameter

Any questions?

[muted pebble]

My brain is burnt out RN can I get a break for rn?

[hoary shadow]

btw out of curiosity may i ask if you remember where did you first learn that term?

[ebon charm]

does "argument" seem unusual to you?

[hoary shadow]

nop

[ebon charm]

your question is unusual

[zenith jungle]

No idea, I've been using python for about 8+ years now

[hoary shadow]

i used it way before knowing that its called "argument" then i learned that after talking to people...

[ebon charm]

arguments in the function call are mapped to parameters in the function definition . this is standard.

[hoary shadow]

or reading stuff up yeah

[zenith jungle]

I used to mix up parameter/argument and thought they were interchangeable terms

but it also can sort of be used interchangeably based on how you use them in a sentence

[hoary shadow]

lol same xD but learned it after talking to people explainig my code or vice versa

[ebon charm]

in some ways they are interchangeable. If someone can say, "you're using the terms wrong" that means they knew what you meant, so why be pedantic?

[zenith jungle]

yeah exactly

they do have specific meanings, but if I said "your function call is missing its parameters", it would still make sense

[ebon charm]

look at this issue and the three it links to: https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/133438

this one is 85 files and dozens of comments: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/135160

[zenith jungle]

Haha I never even thought about args/kwargs being "misnamed"

[ebon charm]

parms/kwparms? ugh

[zenith jungle]

yuck

[tropic perch]

The function is receiving a list of anonymous arguments and a dictionary of keyword arguments so naming those parameters that seems logical to me. The parameters, in this case, represent the arguments.

[ebon charm]

yes

[lavish sentinel]

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