🔒 Pick a fruit and remove all others in the list before that | Python | Page 1

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:41 PM

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I'm trying to make a simple script for some random exercise.

The exercise is:
Make a list of 1 fruit for each letter in the alphabet sorted alphabetically (Done by chatGPT)
then

Pick a fruit at random
Remove it and all fruits that come before it in the alphabet from that list
Repeat 1-2

Before I attempt this I want to go through the program, see what I need, what I need to use, etc. Conceptualize it properly, then write code, instead of being clueless and starting to type random ideas in.

How should I start, what would be the first step here?

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:41 PM

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vocal terrace I'm trying to make a simple script for some random exercise. The exercise is: M...

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@vocal terrace

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modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:42 PM

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This can be almost entirely solved with slicing

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the only thing you need to know is the index of the fruit you want to remove

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then you can create a slice that says "everything up until this index"

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:43 PM

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is that a function or method i can look up in the docs

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:44 PM

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data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f']

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have a look at this list for example

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if I just wanted the first 3 items, I can use the slice [0:3]

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!e

data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f']
print(data[0:3])

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:45 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f'] print(data[0:3]) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

['a', 'b', 'c']

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:45 PM

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the syntax is [start:stop:step]

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[0:3] slices starting at 0, and stopping just before 3

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so we end up with the items from index 0, 1, 2

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we can remove based on this slice by reassigning it to an empty list

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!e

data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f']
data[0:3] = []
print(data)

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:46 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f'] data[0:3] = [] print(data) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

['d', 'e', 'f']

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:46 PM

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so the missing piece here is just knowing where you want to slice until

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:46 PM

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that went too fast for me

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:47 PM

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the text isn't going anywhere, feel free to read it over at your own pace and let me know if you have any questions

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:48 PM

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what does [0:3]do

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it removes the items from that list?

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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Do you understand how we can access an index in a list?

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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data[0:3] = [] i havent seen this expression yet

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yes

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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!e

data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f']
print(data[0])

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f'] print(data[0]) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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this always gives us back a single thing

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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why is there an emptry bracket i mean

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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[] is an empty list

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:49 PM

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so you are putting 0:3 into an empty list

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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so data[0:3] = [] is basically saying "replace data[0:3] with emptiness"

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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or rather wait

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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the other way around

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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i didnt know that was possible

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so its like removing?

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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we're assigning "emptiness" to that slice

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!e

data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f']
data[0] = []
print(data)

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f'] data[0] = [] print(data) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

[[], 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f']

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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it works basically the same without slicing

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here I replaced the item in index 0 with an empty list

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:50 PM

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but emptyness means it loses these indices and shifts the other ones to the left afterwards?

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:51 PM

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yes 🙂

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:51 PM

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damn thats covenient

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:51 PM

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very

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there's two really nice slice tricks you should learn as well

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we can provide None as a slice index

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:51 PM

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thats not something youd learn in a book i think

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:51 PM

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slicing is quite common as you start learning more about lists

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!e

data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f']
print(data[3:None])

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:51 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f'] print(data[3:None]) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

['d', 'e', 'f']

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:52 PM

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using None as the "stop" value basically says "until the end"

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:52 PM

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but there's also a function slice()

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gotcha

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:52 PM

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vocal terrace but there's also a function slice()

yes but it returns a "slice object" which is a whole other conversation

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:53 PM

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so now i just need to loop it basically

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:53 PM

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there's no loop necessary

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oh wait

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yes, if you want to repeat the removals

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:53 PM

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yes

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ill try to implement that into a loop, sth i should be able to

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but the slicing trick is really neat thanks

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:54 PM

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another neat thing you can use it for is reverse stepping

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!e

data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f']
print(data[None:None:-1])

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:54 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py data = ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', 'f'] print(data[None:None:-1]) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

['f', 'e', 'd', 'c', 'b', 'a']

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:54 PM

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this says "from the start, until the end, but backwards"

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:54 PM

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looks like reverse() to me

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do you prefer doing this over the function?

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:54 PM

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now, we actually don't need None, but we can leave it empty

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[::-1]

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it looks a bit weird, but it works the same

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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ive seen that

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dont know where

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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vocal terrace looks like reverse() to me

again this returns a different type

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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it didnt say empty is also None

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but it makes sense that it is

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:55 PM

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slicing works on strings/lists/tuples/ranges

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slicing a string returns a string

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:56 PM

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as in generates a new variable you mean

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:56 PM

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!e

text = 'python is cool'
print(text[::2])
print(text[::-1])

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:56 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py text = 'python is cool' print(text[::2]) print(text[::-1]) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | pto sco
002 | looc si nohtyp

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:56 PM

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vocal terrace as in generates a new variable you mean

it doesn't generate a new variable, it returns new data

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:56 PM

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i haven't really grasped what "return" means in these contexts

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:56 PM

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the result of a function

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have you learned len()?

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:57 PM

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yea

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:57 PM

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len() is a function that returns the length of an object

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:57 PM

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i se

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e

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yeah that makes sense

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:57 PM

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size = len('abc')

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when I do this

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first python evaluates len('abc')

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it get's the returned value of 3

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then the 3 is assigned to size

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:57 PM

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if you'd look into the code of the function (len) it'd have a "return" at the end right`?

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:57 PM

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yes

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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so its input for other functions

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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we're not assigning "the function call" to size

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we're assigning the returned value from calling that function

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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makes perfect sense

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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!e

def foo():
    return 10

x = foo()
print(x)

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py def foo(): return 10 x = foo() print(x) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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foo() evaluates to 10, then it gets assigned to x

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!e

def foo():
    return 10

print(foo(), foo(), foo())

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:58 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py def foo(): return 10 print(foo(), foo(), foo()) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

10 10 10

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:59 PM

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👍

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fully got it

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perfectly explained, thanks 😄

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:59 PM

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!e

x = print(5)

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 6:59 PM

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modest arrow !e ```py x = print(5) ```

:white_check_mark: Your 3.13 eval job has completed with return code 0.

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 6:59 PM

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what do you think would happen if I did print(x) on the next line?

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 6:59 PM

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let me think for a sec

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so i try to visualize it as code

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and just replace x with what it actually is

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so it'd be print(print(5))

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:00 PM

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yes, the right side of the = is always evaluated first

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:00 PM

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error

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unless printing a print function is sth that works

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:00 PM

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vocal terrace so it'd be print(print(5))

no, remember, when calling a function, we're always dealing with the returned value

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we aren't printing a print

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we're printing what print returns

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:01 PM

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thought that might be an exception

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so print returns a 5

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:01 PM

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print returns nothing

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:01 PM

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but on screen instead

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:01 PM

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this is a gotcha for beginners, don't worry lemon_smirk

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:01 PM

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yeah i figured lol

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so it does what now?

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:02 PM

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def foo():
    return 10

x = foo()

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look at this again

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after the last line, x has no understanding of foo

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it just says "give me the value you returned"

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it's not remembering that x = foo()

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it only knows x = 10

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:02 PM

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i can see that yeah

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:03 PM

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so it's the same with x = print(5)

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:03 PM

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so a function itself is nothing more than an elaborate variable?

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:03 PM

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print(5) does it's job by displaying 5 to the console

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and then it returns None, which gets assigned to x

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:03 PM

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vocal terrace so a function itself is nothing more than an elaborate variable?

a function is a set of instructions

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it can take inputs (parameters) and provide output (return)

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:03 PM

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but ultimately its just a value or string etc.

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or a list

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:04 PM

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yes, depending on what it returns

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it's up to you really based on your needs

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:04 PM

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yeah im just talking about the return thing, if it has one

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:04 PM

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if there's no return, it returns None

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def foo():
    return 5
    return 10
    return 15

x = foo()

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what about x here?

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:05 PM

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my guess would be 15

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:05 PM

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good guess, but no

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functions stop at their first return

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:05 PM

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so all of them

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:05 PM

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it only returns 5

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:05 PM

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ah i see

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i knew that

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but seeing it like this makes it unintuitive

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but its good to see that once because than it makes more sense

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:06 PM

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you can often have many return paths in a function

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depending on parameters

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:06 PM

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that feels like a quiz that is actually very insightful

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:06 PM

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🙂

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making you think about code is one of the best ways to learn

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:07 PM

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agreed

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:07 PM

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I spent a lot of time in these threads when I was first learning python

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because I found that trying to explain something to someone else was a great way to learn, because I was also testing myself

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:07 PM

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i fully agree with that as well

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but i need to know sth to be able to teach about it too

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but once i get to that point ill be here as well i think

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:08 PM

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hopefully 🙂

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:08 PM

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something im actually looking forward too alot

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thanks a lot for your help so far

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:08 PM

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np!

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feel free to give that looping code a try now

vocal terrace Jul 21, 2025, 7:09 PM

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i will

covert kiln Jul 21, 2025, 7:38 PM

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wow i just looked at the whole coversation and it is AWSOME Fashoomp you should seriously get a work as a teacher

modest arrow Jul 21, 2025, 7:40 PM

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covert kiln wow i just looked at the whole coversation and it is AWSOME Fashoomp you should ...

I've done some mentorship in the past

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but for now I'm happy with my work 🙂

fast frigateBOT Jul 21, 2025, 8:40 PM

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#🔒 Pick a fruit and remove all others in the list before that