unix

[wise forge]

Human factor is the most terrible delay to wait for devs.

[pliant quest]

i agree i'm searching for help everywhere and people are not answering me nowhere so that's painful 😭

thanks for your advices

[wise forge]

Mm, probably because u aren't approaching it in the right way

For a right way u should be trying/attempting to do stuff on your own
And writing a wall of text, how u do it and what errors u encountered

than any human passing by could help if they encoutnered such problem before and not lazy to add input

then even if other humans do not help, by voicing all your steps and errors => u are very likely to reach answer on your own

like u just rubber ducked your way to finish
Otherwise other people could give small advices for else to try to feed your inspiration what else to try to fix it or make in a right way.
People are way more willing to help if they see your effort, and if effort on their part required is very small (and they don't need to interrogate you what u have)

[pliant quest]

i'm trying stuff on my own but it's not giving results for now
my problem is that i don't encouter any errors when it comes to python , only a broken file at the end, so i have no clue where to search and this is why i can't give much information
as of now i'm trying a new way

thanks for your advices i'll try all of this

[wise forge]

, only a broken file at the end
if things are all too bad, then just share Github repository for a link, and screenshot of last crash, and last commands u invoked to reach it
Try also to summarize relevant code files/ file structure to shorten reading time for helper
Mention your OS of course, from where u run it

[wise forge]

Otherwise for actually discovering problems related to debian at every commit u could be just using Github Actions
You code could be having pytest unit tests, and GH ci could be autolaunching them to run at linux and check all is okay
https://github.com/darklab8/py-typelog/blob/master/.github/workflows/ci.yml

WSL2 is more rapid solution to iterate locally, and develop with comfort (or just developing straight from linux 😁 )
CI can be just an extra to ensure preventing degradation if u stopped using wsl2 at this point of time (u will receive Emails if it they crash, plus seeing red mark to commit as they don't pass)

[pliant quest]

that's what i've done here https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1277194669339447397 and on stackoverflow

[wise forge]

Ah. Classical devops problem 😏

Docker is able to encapsulate inside not only Python dependencies
but also imitating Linux OS filesystem inside and having installed different system level dependencies (apt, and etc stuff)

that makes built docker a reliable artifact for launching, with 99.999%+ guarantee that it will work as intended on another machine

[pliant quest]

oh wow
a big too deep for me to dive into tbh i'm hoping for something easier
and i still need to learn how github works apart from push and pull

[wise forge]

Feel free to dive into it eventually. That's a very handy tool helping to have better development environment too

it makes a lot of stuff way simpler

like if u need postgres, or redis, it makes it possible in a single command, within few minutes of your effort to find Docker hub and launch them

And also... if u will build from WSL2 Docker image for the correct CPU architecture of your friend (Amd64 / Arm64 for example) and save to docker registry (at docker hub)
the friend will be able to launch your app in a single command effort with all your dependencies being inside already installed (no relying on whatever python is installed at remote server, it will be already smth inside the image)

Docker is lightweight VM imitator, that creates an illusion of VM, imitates its own filesystem inside, but actually fully reuses resources of a current Linux machine
It is a really good "artifact" to build for launching at othe rmachines
Consider docker being a "binary" to build for web world. A real way to frozen all your python/system level dependencies and not relying on having then installed later and being available

[pliant quest]

ooooh dammn seems interesting

i with i had time to learn about that but class goes again in a week and i'm hoping for my bug to be fixed before this 😭

i'm saving all of this for next holidays to read and learn definitively

for now i'll just try with wsl for my tests

[wise forge]

https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/#next-steps
u can try using Docker from within WSL2
here is the proper Docker Engine installation for wsl2 ubuntu default

Docker is not usable from Windows directly. That's Linux technology only. (there exist ugly tools to workaround it, but they should not be used due to problems they create, WSL2 or direct Linux usage is a way to go. Or optionally just using remote server or regular VM, but those choices are less comfy)

[pliant quest]

would you advice using ubuntu on wsl instead of debian as ubuntu is the default ?

[wise forge]

it does not matter a lot what u choose here. Ubuntu is debian for 90%+

there exists only extra important caveat

you said your friend uses RetroPi, which is likely having Arm64 CPU architecture. And your Windows is Amd64 CPU architectured.

Docker builds CPU architecture dependended artifacts

so u would have to build it on arm64 and save result ot docker registry for friend able to run, or provide friend with dockerfile to rebuild at arm64 on its own

any programs built for amd64 can't run on arm64 😅

you are separated by CPU architecture wall

[pliant quest]

ooh ok which may be the problem for my code ?

[wise forge]

different hardware

u have regular windows which usually runs on some intel/amd CPUs having amd64 arch

she has Raspberry PI server, which has arm64 architectured CPUs

[pliant quest]

this is what the server shows when i launch the ssh

[wise forge]

anyway, test your things on WSL2 for a start

[pliant quest]

ok lets go

[fluid warren]

Sounds good just a warning lfs is harder than gentoo, lfs is basically gentoo but you run every single make command manually while gentoo does most of them for you

I'll probably try lfs again sometime since I'm way more comfortable with the Linux system

[rancid aurora]

I think in that respect, itd better for me to do lfs because that way I actually properly learn more about linux. Anyhow, thanks for your help. Ill let you know if I need any assistance.

[obtuse magnet]

Figured out how to launch a transient systemd service via SystemD's API. Took me a minute

[lapis cloud]

So, there's Timeshift. It's a tool for making automated system backups. It works (by default) via rsync - when a new backup is made, it's compared to the last one and files that weren't changed get symlinked to the last one, whereas new and changed files get stored for real. This is a cool feature that saves tons of space.
Is there a way to achieve something like this, except also compressing all the files? Not for system backups, just for use on various directories one may want to backup.

(I don't just mean "is there a tool for this", but also "how can this be implemented at all". E.g. I was thinking of just adding each version to a single big zipfile, but this only sometimes manages to deduplicate the files, it seems.)

[obtuse magnet]

I suggest btrfs, it comes with both snapshots, and compression

And sending of the snapshots via btrfs send, with no garbage, as opposed to plain dd

[lapis cloud]

Oh, that's an interesting idea. I wonder if I can make a BTRFS in a file via FUSE...

[lapis cloud]

hmm, is it possible to mount a file as a filesystem without binding it to a loop device? because the latter needs sudo, which is an annoying limitation to have

[lapis cloud]

yup, this pretty much works! (not actually via FUSE; couldn't find an impl of that) I can make a btrfs system in a file, mount it, put a bunch of "backups" in, deduplicate them with something like rmlint, and if necessary also have the filesystem compressed (though this has a weirdly high overhead, despite using zstd it took me 20s to read files which should have been read in one).

The main issues are:

• this is unix-only
• this needs sudo to do sudo mount mycoolfs.img mycoolfs_mnt -o loop -o compress=zstd, which is quite a big thing to ask just for one feature.
  I wonder if I can avoid that last one somehow...

also btrfs needs a 120MB file at least, even if you don't use all that space

[obtuse magnet]

Well, that's a shame

I had my own investigation on doing backups that don't suck, look into rclone and all of the backends/options available for it, maybe you'll find something suitable

[magic sentinel]

a question

what is the command to execute a querry in a SQLite database

on linux?

[spark mulch]

sqlite3 nameofdb 'your query'

[magic sentinel]

how do i locate my poetry enviroment to execute the poetry update?

i need to find it to install

[fickle granite]

are you sure? You can just run poetry in the directory that holds pyproject.toml, or any directory below that

but anyway: poetry env info --path will tell you

[rancid aurora]

I swear to god manjaro has been the only distro that ive used that works perfectly on a VM. other isos ive used have always had issue but only manjaro works well. is there a reason for this?

[urban merlin]

Yes, must be incorrect configuration.

[ember quiver]

What hypervisor? Maybe try a different one.

[rancid aurora]

I use vmware

[maiden wigeon]

i use windows because i am lazy

[signal bane]

termux is good for local ssh

you can make a good ssh with termux

and you can install zsh on it and oh-my-zsh

[ionic goblet]

is there an opensource alternative to something like thinlinc?

I want to do gpu intensive work remotely within the lan with multiple users that can login

[prime magnet]

https://alternativeto.net/software/thinlinc/?license=opensource

[ionic goblet]

Thank you so much for giving me the first link that appears on google when I search up my question. Glad that you also took nothing in considerations because none of these alternatives are viable for my usecase.

This is a discord server, correct?

I didn't know it's a search engine

I did find xrdp and tigervnc somewhat relatable for my usecase, but tigervnc isn't persistent. Not sure if any are suitable for gpu intensive work

I would use sunshine/moonlight if they could handle multiple users logged in at once

[prime magnet]

such kind person, I wish my boss would have your personality. Would be great to get so warmed feedback everyday, what a joy

[ionic goblet]

I don't know whats the point in trying to answer a question that you don't know the answer for, and in turn, misleading the person. Perhaps just...don't respond?

[prime magnet]

people from different experience levels come here everyday. I can't tell with just a single line question what you did or not before answering. Perhaps you can post your questions with more contexts next time to avoid vague responses. I did not mean to mislead you.

[ionic goblet]

This would be context enough...None of the alternatives in the link meet the criteria. Though, I didn't mean to be imprudent while responding. Good day

[strong gate]

how to install python on ubuntu? i tried multiple times from website but it didn't worked?

[fickle granite]

first, let me ask why you're not using the python that's already present -- /usr/bin/python3

"24.04 LTS (Noble Numbat)" comes with version 3.12.3, e.g.

[strong gate]

i'am a beginner, not aware about terminal

[fickle granite]

ah well if you're a beginner, your life will be simpler if you use the built in one

installing is not as easy as it should be

[strong gate]

where to get built in one?

[fickle granite]

I don't know what you mean by "get"

you already have it

[strong gate]

i mean access?

[fickle granite]

as above: it's /usr/bin/python3. If you don't know what that means, then you need to learn a little bit about Unix.

[strong gate]

Ty, moving ahead

[fickle granite]

how were you planning on using Python?

[strong gate]

for CP

[fickle granite]

I have no idea what CP is, sorry

[strong gate]

competitive prog

[fickle granite]

huh, well good luck.

[gleaming fox]

Python is installed with Ubuntu

Shouldn’t need to install it

[gleaming fox]

@strong gate did you get it worked out?

[strong gate]

Yes

[gleaming fox]

Good deal

In the terminal, have you used the idle yet?

[round lily]

Any one need a website or an App developer?

[wise forge]

!rule 6 9 <@&831776746206265384>
Every day, in another channel once again #software-architecture message

[shy yoke]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[ionic goblet]

how else do you use python, at all? even on windows you use it through a terminal

[strong gate]

I saw something called idle on internet

[fickle granite]

most people use IDEs

[strong gate]

Vs code?

[rotund girder]

Yes, for example. Vs code is popular.

[main olive]

No pycharm

[rotund girder]

What do you mean, no pycharm?

[coral panther]

Use VSCode, PyCharm Pro and Visual Studio 2022

[mint fox]

Use vi

usage: vi <filename>.py

[bleak flame]

My favorite but hard OS to grasp

[rotund girder]

Do you understand more of how windows works? 😬

[bleak flame]

Yeah, I daily drive Windows. I got Kali on a VM, I'm learning. I'm still having issues reading Man pages and trying to get them resolved

lol

[rotund girder]

I see 👍 ☺️

I can use windows, but I can't use windows.

[bleak flame]

What? Why not?

[rotund girder]

Well, I have no idea how it works under the hood. Windows is magical, Unix is understandable.

[rotund girder]

Cross posting from general since I figured that's the wrong xhannel for this question:

How to make a python script behave differently if it's invoked by a command that pipes to another command?

$ my_script.py | fzf

[formal schooner]

I think usually commands check if stdout is connnected to a tty or not. If so, it's going to the user's terminal. If not, it's been redirected to a file or a pipe.

https://stackoverflow.com/q/911168

Not sure how to do [ -t 1 ] in Python though

[final island]

saaame

actually scratch that I would backflip on my neck very soon after having to use windows

my environment matters a lot to me so I wouldn't be able to handle it

[final island]

you have a lovely pfp + nickname combo

very cozy

[fickle granite]

🙂 [2024-09-11T06:33:13-0700][discord-recipes] % python3 -c 'import os; print(os.isatty(1))' | cat
False
🙂 [2024-09-11T06:33:20-0700][discord-recipes] % python3 -c 'import os; print(os.isatty(1))' 
True

disclaimer: I just made this up now, I've never tried it

[rotund girder]

Good enough for me, thanks! @formal schooner @fickle granite

[fickle granite]

marginally cleaner: ```shell
🙂 [2024-09-11T06:33:22-0700][discord-recipes] % python3 -c 'import sys; print(sys.stdout.buffer.isatty())'
True
🙂 [2024-09-11T06:38:32-0700][discord-recipes] % python3 -c 'import sys; print(sys.stdout.buffer.isatty())' | cat
False

just in case stdout isn't fd 1 for some reason 🤷

also it avoids making the reader wonder "wtf is this 1 doing"

[rotund girder]

I did sys.stdout.isatty()

[fickle granite]

huh, I failed to notice that existed. That's better yet

[ocean geyser]

Should I convert my w11 Lenovo to freebsd 🤔

High key wanna learn unix

[ember quiver]

If it's your daily driver I wouldn't, but if it's an extra device and you want to experiment for learning purposes, sure https://www.osnews.com/story/139562/why-i-run-a-bsd-on-a-pc/

[ocean geyser]

I'm guessing the hardest part is gonna be setting up the wifi but yes my main PC is my desktop I use my laptop to code at coffee shops

Actually

Might wait a bit until I'm done with my project to tackle that lmfao

[prime magnet]

I remember installing Debian on my only pc (circa 2002) and I had no internet connection. I had to download dependencies one by one at college and then install them back home at night. Just to figure out I missed another bunch 😄

[ocean geyser]

Lmfaaaaooo

I might dual boot Linux on my PC I need to get back to using something besides windows

I haven't been using my VMs since I stopped studying for certs

[ember quiver]

If you haven't tried it in a VM yet, I would start there

[ocean geyser]

Yea my only experience with bsd is pfsense so I'll definitely spin up a freebsd VM before trying to convert my laptop

[ember quiver]

I'm a big fan of enabling XRDP on VMs. The Windows RDP client provides a pretty seamless experience. I will never dual boot again

[ocean geyser]

Interesting, I might try that out

[prime magnet]

on Windows you also have WSL2 which is somewhat descent compared to version 1. It will help you to understand a lot of commands. Also Docker is another option these days.

[ocean geyser]

Ive used docker to spin up labs on linux

[final island]

there might be some bullfuckery with fd redirection potentially, so yeah nice safety

[rotund girder]

How to make a command that wraps my script so that the default behavior is to always pipe the result to fzf?

# alias shortname  # how to write this so that
# short_name --banana, translates into
path_to_script.py --banana | fzf --ansi

But not for shortname --help 😬

[upbeat lotus]

You can write a function

short_name() {
  if [[ "$1" == "--help" ]]; then
    path_to_script.py "$@"
  else
    path_to_script.py "$@" | fzf --ansi
  fi
}

[rotund girder]

Yeah, I'm wondering if this is my best approach. I just want the script accessible, convenient and transparent

Once again I think an abbreviation like fish has would have been the best.

[formal schooner]

aliases are strictly prefixes, so you have to write a shell function for anything more sophisticated

depending on how the program handles its options, you might instead want to do something like this:

function short_name {
  local use_fzf=1 arg
  for arg; do
    case "$arg" in
      -h|--help|-V|--version) use_fzf=0 ; break ;;
    esac
  do

  if (( $use_fzf )); then
    path_to_script.py "$@" | fzf --ansi
  else
    path_to_script.py "$@"
  fi
}

interestingly this is one of the cases where shell scripting is actually a bit more parsimonious than python

[rotund girder]

Persimmon? 🍑

Thanks @formal schooner this looks great 👍

[spark mulch]

Depends on the shell

E.g. in zsh you can do alias -g H='| head'

[formal schooner]

true, but that's a different kind of cursed

[spark mulch]

Yeah, and that's not even the most cursed type of zsh alias..

[winged abyss]

its okay ahah

[rotund girder]

Is it like a suffix alias? And why is it cursed?

Is it possible to do something like fish abbreviations in bash or zsh? I remember googling for this before without finding anything.

But. Worst case. It should be possible to hack something on top of tab completion, right? 🤔

[formal schooner]

What do Fish abbreviations do? -g is a "global" alias in Zsh, -s is suffix only

And yes in Zsh there is something called Zle which lets you run pretty much arbitrary code to process your text input

Not to mention the wildly complicated completion system

[rotund girder]

For example you type ga<space> and it expands to git add on the prompt so that you can add more options before entering the command

It's nice because the command history will only contain full commands and never aliases that are personal to yourself. Good if you want to copy the history to someone else.

[formal schooner]

Ah that would be a Zle thing then

[spark mulch]

It's a global alias, it expands anywhere in the line. The cursed thing I'm referring to is actually suffix aliases, which work differently:

$ alias -s txt=vim
$ foo.txt  # opens vim with the file
$ alias -s net=ssh
$ myserver.net

It's similar to Windows file extension associations :D

[rotund girder]

Scary 😬 both global and the suffix stuff

[rotund girder]

If I have something like this, what would happen to echo H or banana -H?

[formal schooner]

% alias -g H='| head -c 3'
% print 123456 H
123

🙃

i once tried using global aliases for things like piping to grep and head but i didn't use them enough to make them worth using, and they were spooky to have sitting around

[fickle granite]

aliases creep me out; for years I only used shell functions

Now that I've switched to Zsh (at Apple's gentle encouragement 😐 ) I use a few simple ones

[summer trail]

I have 2 that I use pretty regularly: ```sh

Pipe to less

alias -g L='|less'

Detach

alias -g D='&>/dev/null &|'

of the two, I could probably get rid of the L one and not miss it too much, but I use the D one only once in a while, and I've never memorized that incantation

[spark mulch]

Thankfully it's not that global, it's only replacing it if it's a word of its own.

[scenic adder]

hi

[upbeat lotus]

hello

[wide parcel]

is "Unix" short for a Linux based system?

[ember quiver]

As the channel description says, Linux is "unix-like" and we do discuss it here. Unix systems were around before Linux, and are what Linux is based on

[wide parcel]

ah ohkay i was not shure about it, i was shure Linux systems are the base for Unix, but to be frank i dont know what Unix actually is 🙂 so thank you

[formal schooner]

Unix is a commercial operating system, but there are many operating systems that behave similarly, and people tend to group all operating systems in that category under the Unix name. Linux is one such OS, the name is just "Linus + Unix", because the guy who created it is named Linus.

[hexed cave]

No

Linux Is Not UniX

It's also just a kernel

Eg you can make an operating system distribution like alpine. That's not GNU but uses Linux

[upbeat lotus]

what?

[hexed cave]

Typo

[formal schooner]

I didn't want to get into that, also I don't really agree with the GNU kernel/OS distinction. Maybe if it were some kind of tiny core kernel, sure, but Linux has a huge surface area and very much shapes the way that programs can operate the computer -- that's good enough as the core of an operating system IMO

And practically there is no Linux OS that is not GNU-based, moreover GNU itself as an OS is vaporware, instead GNU is more like a userspace toolkit that you can build a complete OS on top of

So yeah there are some layers to it: your Linux-based OS (Debian, Arch, Fedora, Alpine) is built in part on GNU software and running the Linux kernel, but the kernel very much shapes how that higher level stuff behaves. It's not a clean separation.

[spark mulch]

I mostly agree with you, but I don't think you can call Alpine "based on GNU software". Just because it's compiled with GCC?

[formal schooner]

it doesn't use any GNU coreutils, findutils, etc?

IIRC it's Musl + Busybox but I don't know how extensively the GNU has been eradicated from the overall base system

[spark mulch]

Nah, that's all busybox.

[green iron]

How can I fix this ? Someone please help

[fickle granite]

you can start by pasting that text as text, not a photo of your screen

@green iron

[green iron]

i cant do that, i am in tty3

i cant boot

something got messed while grading to ubuntu 24

[final island]

in that case, that is a horrible screen shot regardless

we can't even see all the output

you can do better than that

[ember quiver]

We can't even see the text well enough to type the error into Google for you, but that's where you should start

[green iron]

Okay I'll try to take a better pic next time and share here. Sorry

[formal schooner]

I can see it well enough to tell you that the error message is very clear about what the problem is: python-numpy and python3-numpy both install the same file and therefore are incompatible. personally i think this a packaging bug (the conflicting scripts should have different names, eg "f2py3") but it sounds like for now you need to remove one of those two packages. But none of this is relevant at all to booting into a graphical system...

[green iron]

i was trying to upgrade into ubuntu 24 and thats where things got messed up , there were some errors and some partial upgrade i guess.

so how do i remove one of it ? 🥲

[formal schooner]

do you actually need numpy installed as a package on your system? just remove both imo unless it's a dependency of something else

[green iron]

it must be a dependency thats why its breaking maybe? i am not sure tho 🥺

[final island]

I was gonna say "oh yeah I would sudo pacman -Rns to uninstall it including extra unneeded dependencies it installed" but then realized that ubuntu

too archbrained

[final island]

chatgpt / phind / perplexity the error

[green iron]

lol

[final island]

it will probably point you to some stackoverflow thing or some such

where you'll be able to learn what it actually means

[green iron]

oh okay. i will check that out

thanks guys

i'll update on the issue if there's any progress

[formal schooner]

apt remove but you should read https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-handbook/sect.apt-get.en.html

[final island]

"aptly remove" hehe

[formal schooner]

Do not do that unless you want to break your system more

[final island]

I've been using linux (excepting WSL) for around a year, and it's worked every time

[formal schooner]

I strongly discourage asking the autocomplete bot when an actual manual exists and is easy to read

[final island]

you should sorta know what the commands are doing

which is where you ask follow up questions if you don't understand some command it's giving you

but that goes without saying

[formal schooner]

Right, it's not a tool for a beginner who is already in over their head just trying to get their system working and doesn't understand its basic tools yet

[final island]

a lot of the times it may be easy to read, but is a lot to read
not necessarily about this specific issue, but for the general case

[final island]

yeahhhh good point on that

@green iron listen to the lamp

[formal schooner]

Right, but for questions like "how do i remove a package" then yeah you should at least try to read the manual to understand the fundamentals of your own system

[final island]

yeah hahahahaha

when you put it that way, absolutely

[formal schooner]

Sorry to be cantankerous

[final island]

what I thought of is "why does this conflict happen, why is this package required by something (or why is it installed), what's the discussion about this issue that probably already happened, what will happen if I remove it", where at least for me, AI would help solve all or some of these questions

I never considered that the "remove a package" part of the deal could be an issue, but ig it is in this case

[final island]

never heard that word before!

[formal schooner]

Tbh even in this case I would be skeptical. Is the autocomplete bot really more likely to know why a package file conflict problem occurred, without knowledge of the contents of your system, than you are when armed with knowledge of how to use your OS?

[final island]

I use AIs that search the internet

[formal schooner]

I mean heck try it

[final island]

so they are basically google that do some filtering for me

you gotta develop a balance of how much you should trust them, of course, but I make good use of them

[formal schooner]

More than likely it'll tell you that you have a package conflict and you will be able to Q&A your way to the right commands to investigate and fix

[final island]

cause usually, if I'm having an issue, there's a really good chance someone else already has; but searching for it myself can be cumbersome, and so it's often easier and faster to use an AI for that

[formal schooner]

So it will probably work -- but that's more than just asking the bot, you need to treat it like an expert with dementia

[final island]

oh well yeah, that goes without saying

ig I got used to that?

[formal schooner]

Yup it's a skill

[final island]

I have enough overall experience where I generally know what the right answer will be, even if I don't know the technical details

so I can tell when the ai is right or wrong, even if I didn't know that information beforehand

to highlight that you pointed out correctly that pointing a newbie at an ai is probably a bad idea

[formal schooner]

Once there was a time when people had to establish the same skills and instincts for search engines like Google

[final island]

there's a use that happens often with me

I want to know if something is possible in configuration of some software

and so I ask the AI "is it possible to [blank] in [blank]"

if it starts spewing gibberish, I assume it's impossible

simply so that I don't have to waste time and effort on things that are less likely to be possible, and focus on the billion other things I already know are possible

(I have a long todo list)

[formal schooner]

That's a useful tip, ty

[final island]

:3

[green iron]

which tools do you use ?

[green iron]

okay

so basically., soemthing went wrong while i was upgrading from ubuntu 22 to 24. and i need to fix that

[final island]

perplexity ai, phind ai

[green iron]

i see "something went wrong " screen if i boot apart from tty

[green iron]

if i had to try one whats the best?

[final island]

the paid chatgpt 4 one, most likely

has a lot of good features and is really powerful

I can't buy it because I'm in russia

but otherwise I would

[green iron]

i cant either. how aboout the free gpt 4o?

[final island]

I don't know about that one, haven't tried it

personally I use perplexity ai

if you are going to use ai, MAKE SURE to assume it's always lying to you

ask questions that you can prove right or wrong

blindly trusting an ai is a bad idea

[green iron]

oh okay okay

[shut fractal]

What's this channel for lolmau xD

[final island]

they had an error booting up ubuntu

but then it sparked a conversation

[peak inlet]

Hi, I'm using Ubuntu 22.04.5 LTS. This morning I installed some software updates... and now my file view stopped working (the files are still there), I just open files and it keeps loading as shown in the image without showing me any folders or files... does anyone have any idea of ​​how to fix this?

[fickle widget]

can you provide the details of the updates you installed

[median garden]

i would open it from a terminal and see if there's any errors in stderr

[shut fractal]

so IG this channel is for linux related help

[final island]

yep

[empty sky]

yeah linux and occasionally macos

username censored for obvious reasons

[fickle widget]

how did you set this up

gorgeous

[empty sky]

Thanks!

[empty sky]

The stuff that's visible there is:
Alacritty(terminal emulator)
Grubbox dark hard
Neofetch
The blue thing which shows the cwd is power something sorry can't remember exactly

[fickle granite]

https://github.com/romkatv/powerlevel10k I will guess

[clever phoenix]

What’s the biggest difference between a Unix os and a windows os

[wise forge]

Does Linux counts for your definition, or strictly must be Unix

[clever phoenix]

Linux sure

[wise forge]

Then biggest difference:

• Linux is free. Licensed version is seriously free for all mainstream stuff.
  • that alone makes it easy to abuse in server infrastructure for raising hundreds servers for free if necessary. That allows handling horizontal scaling where we increase numbers of servers instead of their power. Destroy and create server instances as much often as u desire
  • that simple fact built ecosystem around to automate its configuration and having all server infra dedicated only for it.

Since it is free and open source as well as many its mainstream diatros...
Even if u a using it for desktop as dev machine...
...u a really left in control to be full admin of it and able to change literally everything. As long as u inserted admin authorization, the OS is not fighting you or restricting in any way, including not forcing onto you auto updates, unwanted antivirus, or any other dumb decision windows makes.

• also since it is real user oriented, each new version of distros is not hiding settings, configuration away behind some new marketing move.

So... In a short Linux OS is built with comfort at least for developers.

[clever phoenix]

How about like structure wise

[wise forge]

All Linux OSes usually adhere to be very similar at console level

Having same rules, folder names where everything should be and it should be organized and working.

All same rules to commands and how to read their help

As mainstream most of Linux OSes are based on debian, so once u learn how to work with Ubuntu (based on debian)/debian, u are able to with with 2/3 of Linux OSes in exactly same way

Visual interface can variate for desktop machines, people choose whatever they want.
I am fan of KDE plasma interface, so I go with Kubuntu for desktop (Kubuntu + KDE)
By default Ubuntu is shipped with Gnome interface

Between majorly different Linuxes, having entirely different under it distro, usually biggest difference for user only which package manager is installed.
Well.. sometimes can variate default shell language too.

Anyway I just stick with debian/Ubuntu family and I am good then

So in the end, u usually learn how to use Linux at console level for specific family, and then u are good to use it

Console is quite comfy, because often faster to use, and devs are not lazy to output detailed information what is happening
Also not least importantly, easy automatable for configuration of servers

[clever phoenix]

No like structure wise how is Linux and windows different

[wise forge]

If u ask it again, then I must ask what is structure
Provide me example of windows structure u wish comparison with

[clever phoenix]

Like it’s file system and kernel idrk

[wise forge]

Common to use ext4 filesystem
Different path slash to use
And it is case sensitive in comparison to windows

/var/Smth
/var/smth
are two different files

[clever phoenix]

Cool

[wise forge]

Never touched its kernel. It is there.

For me Linux kernel is important only from point Docker is able to run multiple containers in efficient way
By grabbing same host kernel

At windows it can not, without running somewhere Linux vm

[clever phoenix]

Thanks

[rotund girder]

#editors-ides message

As mentioned, my terminal breaks after suspending applications like vim/nvim/helix. This happens in bash after I have used fg from a key binding.

Every 2nd time I do ctrl-z to suspend the editor to the background, my terminal enters a broken state where I can't see anything I type. To reset my terminal state I have to blindly do stty sane<enter> to get it back into functional state. so weird!

If I compare my tty settings with stty -a command and diffing, I get this: (The red settings is when my terminal is "sane" and working. The green settings is a broken terminal)

Does anyone have any guess or idea what could be going on?

[spark mulch]

Terminfo not matching your terminal? What's $TERM and what is your terminal?

[rotund girder]

So the annoying part of my input not showing is due to stty -echo being set.

$ echo $TERM
xterm-256color

I also noticed I get the same behavior when ctrl-z (suspending) python3, so it's not only for alternative screen (fullscreen) TUI application.

[rotund girder]

Here is some info regarding my terminal Wezterm:

wezterm version: 20240203-110809-5046fc22 x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
Window Environment: X11 GNOME Shell
Lua Version: Lua 5.4
OpenGL: AMD Radeon Graphics (radeonsi, renoir, LLVM 15.0.7, DRM 3.42, 5.15.0-119-generic) 4.6 (Compatibility Profile) Mesa 24.2.3 - kisak-mesa PPA

I also experience the issue in xfce4-terminal 0.8.10, which has this:

$ echo $-
himBHs
$ echo $TERM
xterm-256color

shell is bash version 5.1.16(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)

[rotund girder]

And I noticed by inspecting tty from another terminal that the strange settings are set when I do ctrl-a to foreground the process

Similar issue in fish that has been resolved: https://github.com/fish-shell/fish-shell/issues/2114

[empty sky]

bingo

thanks for the find

[shrewd stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-w-gus-fring-gus-gustavo-deleted-gif-25440636

[rotund girder]

👀

I think I asked at one point, how to make a poll. And someone was angry because I asked and didn't look it up myself 😩

[royal wasp]

lol
sometimes you just want a human response instead am I right?

[shut fractal]

Is it possible to make my Crostini use a partition of my external HDD to store all of my debian VM container's data? (basically the whole "/" directory)?

[final island]

true!

[sterile shell]

@scarlet pivot what you rocking

[broken kelp]

What desktop environnement would you recommand that doesn't use mutter nor wayland ?

[wise forge]

i like Kubuntu. by default it uses X11. there is an option to switch to Wayland if desiring

[tiny flint]

crip

[broken kelp]

from what i've tested kwin seems to have the same downside as mutter for my usecase

I need to be able to create virtual monitors. Mutter has a bug preventing it, and wayland doesn't handle it for the moment. iirc virtual monitor didn't work on kwin either

[wise forge]

at some point i used this Virtual Monitor business at ubuntu, found some program that works well for it to extend how many desktops i have
And then stopped using and just started using two physical screens 😏

[broken kelp]

I actually need 2 screens to behave as one

so I can have some app on fullscreen on 2 monitors

I have a xrandr scripts that does it and it works great

I was using Cinnamon, but I've upgraded from Ubuntu 22.04 to Ubuntu 24.04 and now playing with virtual monitors makes Cinnamon crashs...

Apparently it's a bug in mutter

[formal schooner]

KDE forever

But not Ubuntu blech

[formal schooner]

For an ultrawide?

[broken kelp]

no the other way around

[broken kelp]

merging 2 screens into one

[broken kelp]

looks like I'm stuck with Xfce or LxQt for the time being

[formal schooner]

ah, KDE does not do that well

LxQt is low-key great anyway

Feels a bit more like "WM + apps" than most DEs, not well integrated

Xfce also great if you want something more coherent

[rotund girder]

I'm trying to have Firefox as default browser, but I can only get xdg-open to launch chromium. Is there a way to debug why this is happening? xdg-open didn't have many options on the cli.

I'm guessing maybe missing .desktop file. Where is that located on Ubuntu (with xfce)?

I do have a /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop

[shrewd stratus]

does it show up in the output of update-alternatives?

[rotund girder]

I solved this!

Had to use xdg-settings set default-web-browser firefox.desktop 🥳

[hexed cave]

Does anyone know why #ifndef __GNU__ is here? https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/main/Modules/socketmodule.c#L7924
And then why even on GNU I still see SO_REUSEPORT available in the socket module?

[shy yoke]

Modules/socketmodule.c line 7924

#ifndef __GNU__```

[knotty igloo]

the blamed commit says

Comment out socket (SO_REUSEPORT) and posix (O_SHLOCK, O_EXLOCK) constants exposed on the API which are not implemented on GNU/Hurd. They would not work at runtime anyway.

[hexed cave]

Oh hurd

Why is there no issue for this commit?

I see this as rejected https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/65472

[spark mulch]

Hurd is not on the list of supported platforms: https://pythondev.readthedocs.io/platforms.html

Is the __GNU__ guard only for Hurd?

[final island]

had a great time with kde, can easily recommend it

[shrewd stratus]

apparently so, https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=blob;f=gcc/config/gnu.h;hb=HEAD

[broken kelp]

ty but kde sadly doesn't meet the requirements for my usecase

that would be my choise otherwise

[main olive]

Anyone know how to use symlinks for automating the management of dotfiles? I have a system that works for me, but I'm curious how others manage their dotfiles ^^

[fickle granite]

Mine are in a git repo, and I have a (fairly nasty) script that symlinks them into place.

[shrewd stratus]

I use chezmoi for managing dotfiles

[final island]

yep same

I should switch those to be hardlinks though ngl

[spark mulch]

I used to do this as well, with a self-written symlink manager thing, but I've since become enlightened. My home directory is a (bare) git repo.

See https://github.com/L3viathan/dotfiles/blob/master/.zshrc#L27-L30

[shy yoke]

.zshrc lines 27 to 30

alias config='git --git-dir=$HOME/.cfg/ --work-tree=$HOME'
# git clone --bare ... $HOME/.cfg
# config config --local status.showUntrackedFiles no
# config checkout```

[spark mulch]

No symlinks, just real files. I config add files I want to track, config push to sync it to Github, etc.

[final island]

hmmmm interesting

the big reason I like the symlink approach is that I get to make the file structure / file names that make the most sense to me, rather than what a given program expects

then in fuzzy searching, I don't have to shovel through a million files called "rc" or "config"

[spark mulch]

I see that, but you could also just search files tracked in your repo, I think

E.g. config ls-tree -r master --name-only | fzf (which you could of course alias)

[final island]

yes, but then they would still be named not how I like

[spark mulch]

True. If that's more important to you, then perhaps it's not for you.

[final island]

so basically I'm putting in a bunch more effort to have a nicer filestructure that I interact with

[final island]

indeed

[spark mulch]

For me it was a pure upgrade, since I anyways copied the same structure inside my dotfiles repo and then recursively symlinked them into the correct place based on the directory and file structure.

[spark mulch]

How do you map your preferred names to the "real" ones?

[final island]

ohhhh yeah in that case it's just better!

I heard stow does exactly that

[final island]

hmm?

via symlinks

[spark mulch]

Manually created ones?

[final island]

https://github.com/Axlefublr/dotfiles/blob/main/scripts/setup/dotfiles-dependent.fish

[final island]

yep!

[spark mulch]

I see

[final island]

and this script ↑ tracks the overall install process of things

so if I ever need to reinstall my os, I follow a bunch of scripts that do that

[spark mulch]

Yeah, I had a similar thing (with a single curl | bash setup script)..

[final island]

neato

[formal schooner]

Same here, I call it dots https://git.sr.ht/~wintershadows/dotfiles

[formal schooner]

Very fancy

I used to use dotbot to manage symlinks

https://github.com/anishathalye/dotbot

I liked the level of control vs GNU Stow

[rotund girder]

I use chezmoi to manage my dotfiles as a separate repo. It keeps a copy of the tracked files and alleviates syncing the used file with the copy in chezmoi directory.

It's a bit complicated but supports file properties and encryption. It's a bit too complicated for me, but I got it working and it works very well now after I learnt it.

https://www.chezmoi.io/

[final island]

nice!

[final island]

yeah not a fan of gnu stow simply for the restriction that it works by

[final island]

nice!!

[fickle granite]

I started out by using "stow", but switched away at some point. I can't remember why.

[rotund girder]

If anyone is doing chezmoi with vim I recommend this config:

" Quick way to edit config file(s)
map <leader>e <cmd>Files $CHEZMOI_HOME<cr>

" Automatically apply update to config files with chezmoi
  autocmd BufWritePost ~/.local/share/chezmoi/[^.]* ! chezmoi apply --source-path <afile>

So, only update the tracked, and automatically sync to the real file on every save.

[final island]

sync to the real file? isn't it supposed to make symlinks?

[rotund girder]

No, it creates copies, no symlinks. I think it's for example to allow encrypted version in the Chezmoi git dir and non-encrypted at real place. There might be more/other reasons.

Like git fetching but only applying/syncing some files.

For my use case symlinks would be enough.

[final island]

ohhhh interesting

yeah indeed, for what I do, symlinks are enough

I need to look into using hardlinks more though

[main olive]

Never heard of chezmoi, but I'm going to check it out and see if it works for me!

[main olive]

I'll look into this too!

[formal schooner]

wait until you hear about reflinks (copy on write)

[final island]

ohhh interesting

what's the benefit over hardlinks / symlinks?

a reflink just seems like a worse hardlink, I'm sure it's more helpful than I imagine though

[spark mulch]

reflinks are just copies that don't copy any data until something is changed

[final island]

and also how do you make them? with the ln command also using some flag?

[spark mulch]

conceptually they are just copies

You make them with cp, on supported filesystems (e.g. BTRFS)

[final island]

yep, got that

my question is why is that potentially more useful than a hardlink

which is as real of a file as can be, without taking the extra space

[spark mulch]

Well, it has different uses. If you change the file, all (hard) links to the file notice that change. If you "make a reflink" and change the original, the copy doesn't see those changes. Because it's a copy.

A reflink also doesn't take up space (until one of the copies are modified)

[final island]

ohhhh

so editing a copy updates the original, but editing the original doesn't update the copies?

[spark mulch]

No, they act like regular copies. Edit one, it doesn't change the other one

[final island]

wait so it's literally just a copy, no other fancy special behavior?

[final island]

except saving on space ig

[spark mulch]

Yes, exactly.

[final island]

oh

I got my hopes up lol

[rotund girder]

Trying to use pyenv for the first time to install pylsp globally. But for some reason I have another path in front of my pyenv in $PATH 🤔
But after launching bash inside my bash, it's fixed. URGH I dont like how $PATH works ...

[fickle granite]

Yo dawg I heard you like $PATH

[rotund girder]

Why does pyenv go into ~/.bashrc and not ~/.profile ? 🤔

Seems wrong >.> I'm trying to learn now and I'm becoming confused by tools telling me to modify my PATH in .bashrc ... 🤯

[fickle granite]

I think .profile only affects "login shells", which in this day and age, are rare

whereas .bashrc affects any interactive shell

I hate it when tools fiddle with my dotfiles 😦

[rotund girder]

.bashrc is called whenever an interactive shell starts, so if I do bash inside bash, I will source my .bashrc again

[fickle granite]

https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/Bash-Startup-Files.html

[rotund girder]

If I append to PATH in .bashrc it will grow (not good)

[fickle granite]

otoh iirc if you "do bash inside bash", the child will inherit variables from the parent, which could be confusing

[rotund girder]

.profile seems to be called only the first time the shell is started, not for each invocation of bash inside the first one

[fickle granite]

yes, that's roughly what "login shell" means

[rotund girder]

yes, so I dont understand why login shells would be rare?

Isn't it just PATH should be appended to in .profile and not .bashrc ?

[fickle granite]

nobody has "logged in" to a computer since about 1982

or at least, you don't get a shell after you log in; instead you get windows or MacOS

and you can then manually start a shell if you like, but only about 0.0000001% of all computer users ever do so

you, me, and a couple of weirdos over there --->

[rotund girder]

uhm but, I'm meddling with config files related to my shell, of course I will use a terminal and do weird things and want it to behave? o.O

[fickle granite]

yes, you are one of those 0.00001%

anyway, the idea behind .profile was that stuff in there only needed to happen once, when you "logged in".

[rotund girder]

But, all instructions that tell you to modify PATH in .bashrc, who are those written for? >.>

[fickle granite]

most .profiles these days basically just source .bashrc iirc

[rotund girder]

that's quite sad

[fickle granite]

here's mine in its entirety ```

~/.bash_profile: executed by bash(1) for login shells.

Allow core dumps

ulimit -c unlimited

if [ -f ~/.bashrc ] ; then
. ~/.bashrc;
fi

Change the terminal's title to include the hostname. "help echo"

says I can use \E instead of \033, but it lies.

echo -e "\033]2;$HOSTNAME\a"

I don't really know what this is for, but I do know that if it's

set, some python stuff doesn't install properly on Amazon Linux.

e.g., "pip install acme-nginx" puts the Crypto library someplace

that Python doesn't find it.

unset PYTHON_INSTALL_LAYOUT

haven't looked at it in years

[rotund girder]

Where do you modify PATH and how do you make sure you don't get multiple appends of the same path into it?

[fickle granite]

that's two questions

[rotund girder]

indeed

[fickle granite]

• I have a nasty python script that creates my environment variables
• it takes care of eliminating duplicates

[rotund girder]

I see 👍 This shouldn't be needed T_T

[fickle granite]

🤷

cuda
shuda
wuda

the aforementioned "nasty python script"
https://paste.pythondiscord.com/YJUA

[formal schooner]

I have a solution for this as well, I built my own framework for it

(mine is just posix shell scripts)

[rotund girder]

My environment became much more sane today when I started using .profile 👍

I think I'm confused or missing some knowledge, what is going on here?

$ pip install asciinema
Collecting asciinema
  Downloading asciinema-2.4.0-py3-none-any.whl.metadata (19 kB)
Downloading asciinema-2.4.0-py3-none-any.whl (97 kB)
Installing collected packages: asciinema
Successfully installed asciinema-2.4.0

$ asciinema --help
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/asciinema", line 5, in <module>
    from asciinema.__main__ import main
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'asciinema'

Also:

$ pipx --version
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/david/.local/bin/pipx", line 5, in <module>
    from pipx.main import cli
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'pipx'

[formal schooner]

@rotund girder @fickle granite
https://git.sr.ht/~wintershadows/dotfiles/tree/master/item/.config/envrc.sh
https://git.sr.ht/~wintershadows/dotfiles/tree/master/item/.config/envrc.d

[fickle granite]

it makes me sad that we all have to go to such effort just to get a sane setup

[rotund girder]

Agreed, that's what I was getting at with "shouldn't be needed T_T" remark earlier.

What's the escape path?

[formal schooner]

Depends: escape from what?

[rotund girder]

Freeing future devs to come up with there own fixes for this

Making it simpler to learn and use.

[formal schooner]

Yeah, but it depends on what aspect of "this" you have in mind

For example PATH being just string means we lack idempotency and it's generally difficult to work with safely

Zsh for example exposes a path array that keeps PATH in sync

That's a solution if you're a shell user, but maybe instead we need a standard C API/ABI for manipulating "array" environment variables

And I think a big part of the problem in general is that every shell does it differently, and here we are trying to adapt something designed for shells, that only works in shells, for use in things that aren't shells

Every OS does things differently too, for example, on Mac every shell by default is a login shell, whereas in other systems only your first login on TTY is a login shell, and you never get a login shell at all in a GUI terminal

So then you have another problem, not only does every shell do it differently, but every graphical environment does it slightly differently

And there is more than one way to do it

Ultimately I actually think the idea of setting environment variables in a dedicated process and then printing them (null-separated ofc) to be merged in by the parent process is a nice compromise that doesn't require everybody in the world to redesign everything

It's very Unixey at least

Unless you want to do it all in a C shared library but that makes it significantly harder for a typical user to interact with, and relies more on application developers

[rotund girder]

Is it really the commoncase to not get a login shell from gui? When I launch Wezterm from my ubuntu desktop shortcut it runs .profile at least, indicating login shell?

[rotund girder]

Was your script an example of this, or is this a separate idea?

[formal schooner]

It's just up to the terminal to do that

As in, terminals are free to do it one way or the other, but the conventions vary

[formal schooner]

Separate idea, but I use it that way

Eg on Mac there's no way to set env vars for the entire login session, there's no .xsession equivalent

So I do it in my Neovim config because I like using a GUI frontend that I launch from the dock, not a shell

[shadow cradle]

What is asciinema ??

Idk what i am speaking

..

Sry

Wrong place

[rotund girder]

Recorder for terminal, like I used here:

https://github.com/kaddkaka/vim_examples

[final island]

yeah 😭

I hate installing python software ngl

[shrewd stratus]

tbh, I haven't had much trouble with pipx/uvx

[final island]

I actually can't point to what the issue was, but I do distinctly remember having issues with pipx

haven't heard of uvx though!

what is that?

[rotund girder]

I used pyenv for first time last week and succeeded, I think

I had to tbomb my Ubuntu system python with some --break flag though

[spark mulch]

that.. doesn't sound like you succeeded tbh

[rotund girder]

I think I really did, why not? 🙂

It was stuff I installed 3 years ago into system python, so wanted to get rid off it now.

[fickle granite]

https://discord.gg/MvJueqDV It's like pip and pipx and other stuff rolled into one, and is super-fast

[final island]

cool!

[undone idol]

Hi I just updated my Ubuntu from 22.04 to 24.04
But now for every action such as running python files and others, I need to create virtual environments repeatedly

When I am running it as normally. Message of externally managed environment pops up

What to do for this problem?

[formal schooner]

keep creating virtual environments 🙂 the message is there for a reason

it's trying to stop you from pip installing something system-wide, which can and will ruin your ubuntu installation

sudo pip install is the equivalent of running sudo make install into /usr/lib for some C library -- you would never do that

pip install --user is better but not better enough

[undone idol]

so now for every use we have to create virtual env?

[formal schooner]

what do you mean "for every use"? yes, every project should have its own venv

and if you are installing python CLI tools, use pipx or uv tool which creates the venvs for you

https://pipx.pypa.io/stable/

[undone idol]

Thanks. Just needed this clarifcation

[formal schooner]

it's the recommended safe practice in all systems anyway, even those that don't impose this restriction

[obtuse magnet]

Hi all
I wrote a blog about writing a performant and extensible web server in Zig and Python
https://dev.to/brogrammerjohn/a-performant-and-extensible-web-server-with-zig-and-python-4adl
There is not much Python in there, but I hope you guys like it. And I want to hear your feedback

[rotund girder]

Complicated issue? 🧠

What happens with current directory for the exec command during an interactive rebase? I'm seeing strange issue with git grep complaining that my glob is matching files outside the repo root. I'm running git grep as part of a make invocation that looks like make -C a/b/c/ target

Outside of rebase -i --exec I'm not able to recreate the issue

[formal schooner]

Can you reproduce in a clean test repo

Do you have a stray .git directory in a parent directory?

[rotund girder]

Yes I can, I realized that git has a messed up idea of git rev-parse --show-toplevel inside rebase exec if current dir is changed.

I can make a minimal example. I'm wondering if this is related to git bisect restriction that you have to stand in the repo root.

[formal schooner]

Huh interesting

[formal schooner]

I would love to know what you found here because I suspect this will bite me one day

[fickle granite]

I'm surprised I've never run into that. Maybe it's because I never use rebase -i --exec

[rotund girder]

I'm trying to recreate it but it's not super easy! 🤔 😠

Successfully rebased and updated refs/heads/main. ugh! Not what I want, damnit 😛

[fickle granite]

I love git, but it does have some dark corners

[rotund girder]

I will have to compare git version when I get back to office tomorrow

I'm on git version 2.43.0 on my personal laptop

[fickle granite]

I can't remember the last time that the git version made a difference to anything I needed to do

[rotund girder]

You dont use --fixup=":amend:newmessage <or whatever the syntax is>" daily? 😛

[fickle granite]

I fixup, squash, and edit dozens of times per day

but I have a slick UI handle the actual commands for me

[rotund girder]

likewise, I fixup often, but not using the amend: or reword: versions

[fickle granite]

I am not sure which versions I use!

[rotund girder]

I dont use a gui though, only tig (which is a TUI)

[fickle granite]

the UI hides that

pretty sure I reword often, and amend often

[rotund girder]

aha, then it's probably just regular fixups. reword: is a fixup that only changes the commit message but not the content

[fickle granite]

yep I do that a lot

[rotund girder]

I doubt it creates a fixup commit though, it's probably just doing a rebase reword under the hood

[fickle granite]

bet it does both

[rotund girder]

git commit --fixup reword:HEAD is rather new, what UI do you use? 🙂

[fickle granite]

I see this ```
0 git … add -u -- project/app/tests.py
0 git … commit --no-gpg-sign --no-edit --fixup=959fef8 --
ruff.....................................................................Passed
ruff-format..............................................................Passed
djLint formatting for Django.........................(no files to check)Skipped
djLint linting for Django............................(no files to check)Skipped
[just-for-fun a9f6205] fixup! Maybe it's time for a nap --
1 file changed, 3 insertions(+)

0 git … rebase -i --autosquash --autostash --keep-empty 959fef8^
Successfully rebased and updated refs/heads/just-for-fun.

not sure how to interpret that

the ui is called "magit", and it's the best UI for anything that I've ever seen. Unfortunately it is not available to you, or to any normal human.

[rotund girder]

I know it's emacs plugin 🙂

[fickle granite]

you must be a member of the super-sekrit "Crazy Emacs Users" club to use it

and much as I love Emacs, I would not recommend that you use it just for magit.

Unless you're into weird-for-the-sake-of-weird

[rotund girder]

At the office (20 engineers) emacs was the most used editor until 4 years ago. Now vscode and vim users are more numerous.
Everyone uses emacs through script or command line tool for 1 specific feature of 1 specific plugin/mode 😛

[fickle granite]

wow, curious

I've never run into more than a couple co-workers who used it, and that's when I worked for a giant globe-spanning company

anyway, the word "reword" doesn't appear in magit's own git log more recently than 6 years ago, so you're right: it doesn't use that fancy new feature

I imagine they don't use fancy new features unless there's a huge benefit, since of course doing so would break backwards compatibility

[rotund girder]

there's no reason to use the fixup reword: unless you want to delay the rewrite of the commit history (updating/replacing the original commit would give you new commits for all following commits.

[fickle granite]

...

that just proves I have no idea what that feature does

git has added piles of new features in the last couple of years, and I haven't learned any of them 😐

shame that https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2 isn't kept up to date

[rotund girder]

I liked this blog! https://github.blog/open-source/git/highlights-from-git-2-47/

[rotund girder]

scarily close to my issue, but I doubt I have that old of a git version at work 🤔

2.15.1.txt: * A recent regression in "git rebase -i" that broke execution of git
2.15.1.txt:   commands from subdirectories via "exec" instruction has been fixed.

On the other hand git v2.16 is 5 years old, and I run Ubuntu 18.04, so ...

[final island]

I also have a git question

I forked helix, added some commits of my own

currently the fork is both behind and ahead of upstream/master in commits

there's a PR in upstream, that I want to take

it starts from a considerably older commit than my fork starts on

the pr also has messy multiple branches, with merge commits here and there, so I can't just cherry pick the PR's commits to then put onto my fork

how would I go about merging in / rebasing a PR like this? git merge-base is returning nothing, merging errors with the message of "refusing to merge unrelated histories"

is the best course of action to just give up, because the PR is too messy, or is there a reasonably good solution?

[fickle granite]

it's odd that "git merge-base" says they're unrelated, I wonder if you're doing it wrong

is your work someplace where I can see it?

I assume it's https://github.com/Axlefublr/helix

[final island]

the PR I'm talking about isn't listed there, lemme find it so the example is more clear

[final island]

possibly. I was doing gh pr checkout <id> to get a local branch of it, and then git merge-base pr-branch upstream/master

https://github.com/helix-editor/helix/pull/2796 this is the PR I'm talking about

I've implemented a few other PRs into my fork, with those the commit history was clean, so I could just cherry pick the commits and place them onto my branch, however this PR wasn't this straightforward

cherry picking has a nice advantage: I could squish all those commits into an older "merge #123 by @author" commit, retaining the commit messages and co-authors; seems like it won't be that straightforward with this PR
I considered just doing some sort of reset, but it's hard to understand where the commits of the PR start, they mix together with master in such a way where it's hard to understand how I'm supposed to get just the PR's changes

[fickle granite]

I'd add upstream as a remote (if you don't already have it), and just try merging ... lemme see if I can do it

[final island]

I'd add upstream as a remote
if I understand this correctly, yeah I already have this

upstream is available in my remote branches

[fickle granite]

looks like upstream never merged it fwiw

[final island]

yeah, that's why I'm trying to merge it into my fork

[final island]

regardless of your success, would be glad to hear your thoughts

this is not a show-stopping feature, so I'm just interested to learn more about the dynamics of project maintenence, most of all

[final island]

helix has a bad habit of ghosting mostly finished PRs implementing important editor features

which is why I started my fork, to add things in. so far, with far better success than expected!

[fickle granite]

hm, I'm stuck; the PR doesn't exist as a branch in the original repo; and I don't have the "gh" command set up, so I don't know how to get it

and I don't see 'helix' at https://github.com/QiBaobin?tab=repositories 😦

[final island]

it will most likely be packaged by your package manager, on arch the package name is github-cli

the cli is very simple, and often times interactive, so there's no setup required really, and if there is, it tells you

[fickle granite]

in the Old Days® a pull request included a URL from which you could fetch 😐

[final island]

yeah they seem to have deleted their repo

however checking out the pr with gh still gives me the branch

[fickle granite]

well I'm making dinner at the moment; might get back to this in an hour or two

[final island]

alrightie have a nice dinner!

[final island]

perhaps this is the case here too? I wouldn't know, I'm only starting to gain experience with working with prs, realized I could checkout PRs in a convenient way just yesterday

[fickle granite]

ok, just tried git … merge --no-edit prompt-history, and got a conflict in a single file

which should be solvable. (I am not about to try; I have no idea what this project does, and I don't remember any Ruby)

[final island]

interesting!

thank you very much :3

[formal schooner]

i need a tutorial for the --fixup option. i use interactive rebase all the time but it seems like there are fancier tools now

[final island]

yesss same actually

I really want to learn how fixup commits are useful

considering that I can just amend a commit anyway

or rebase and blammo

[formal schooner]

well i have definitely wanted to amend a commit that wasn't the most recent commit

[final island]

so I feel like I can already do things fixup commits do, more easily, and don't quite get their usecase

[formal schooner]

but i don't understand how --fixup works after reading the manual

right, same here

i can just do reword or fixup or squash inside an interactive rebase and be on my way

[final island]

I use lazygit fwiw, and amending an older commit just does a rebase automatically for me

[formal schooner]

or is the idea that i can do a non-interactive rebase and still get fixups? i prefer interactive anyway so i can check that the todo list makes sense

[final island]

while also providing easy functionality for fixup commits, for not sure which reason

[formal schooner]

i wonder if it's using this --fixup option internally

[final island]

yessss same

[final island]

I doubt it, although can't provide a well thought-out reasoning as to why

[final island]

if that's it, it would be quite underwhelming ngl

[fickle granite]

my hunch: traditional git tools discourage you from "modifying history", and instead create new commits whose log message starts with "fixup:"

However, I, and I suspect many other people, modify history willy-nilly, so we don't really need such things

[rotund girder]

It's like any other fixup commit, but let's you modify the commit message as well.

The manpages for git are great. Check
man git commit

If you are more than one person working on a branch, it's less disruptive to create new fixup commits and modify the commit history later when others are ready for the change.

I create fixup commits with keybinding directly in tig, or by doing interactive rebase directly from tig as well. Lazygit just automates this somehow for you. Since I know how to do it by myself, I just prefer the control that gives.

[spark mulch]

So a squash? If I mark a commit as "squash" instead of "fixup" in interactive rebase, I get to change the commit message.

Ah, I looked it up, so to sort out the confusion for people like me who've never used --fixup:

It's a flag for git commit that makes it actually not do a fixup (yet), only mark the new, regular commit as being destined to be upfixed (?) on a specified commit later: When you rebase with the --autosquash option, which will reorder and squash/fixup the commits based on this prior annotation.

[rotund girder]

Correct

[final island]

well yes, and then you apply those fixup commits to modify to commits regardless

so I'm trying to figure out why them, instead of just rebasing directly

[final island]

ohhhh okay that makes more sense

[final island]

but don't fixup commits simply work on the commit right before them?

so say you have these commits:

banana
orange
potato
scalpel

and you want to fixup potato.
you would have to insert the fixup commit like this:

banana
orange
fixup!: whatever
potato
scalpel

, changing the history regardless. you might as well have just rebased

this is even truer if all of these commits are already pushed

because if they aren't, there's no loss in rebasing anyway

but if they're pushed, you'll be changing commit history twice (by adding the fixup commit, and then later squashing it), rather than once (by just doing a rebase once)

would be happy to be proven wrong as I'm desperately trying to find a usecase for fixup commits

[rotund girder]

No, the fixup commit can act on any commit. You give it a sha and they are linked with the commit msg. So you would have:

fixup! potato
banana
orange
potato
scalpel

[final island]

ooohhhhhhhhh

okay, that gives them a lot of worth

however, completely useless to me in specific, I don't work in repos that do development in main, rather than extra branches

so I wonder if they have more usecases than this one, for them to be useful to me too

[rotund girder]

And then you can do rebase --autosquash

We always do work on branches as well, but we are always co-working at least 2 on each branch

[final island]

ohhhhh

haven't heard of that before

it's probably more common than I think though

hmmm yeah I do see the value for them, from your side, definitely

[rotund girder]

Currently we are all 5 members of the team on the same branch, which requires a little bit of discipline. Not too much though 🙂

[final island]

huh!

[rotund girder]

uhu! 😇

[fickle granite]

heh?

[rotund girder]

Remind me, I will see if I can minimize my failing case. It does not seem to be a version issue at least. 🧠🐁

[rotund girder]

Aha!

[rotund girder]

This is a command sequence that causes the error I had. Please see if reproducible if interested.

It mixes git rebase exec, make -C and git worktrees:

mkdir repo
cd repo/
mkdir dir
echo -e 'lint:' > dir/Makefile
echo -e '\tgit rev-parse --show-toplevel' >> dir/Makefile
echo -e '\tgit grep "banana" -- "$$BANANA"' >> dir/Makefile
git init
git add dir
git commit -m"Intial commit"
git worktree add ../repo2
cd ../repo2/
BANANA=$PWD GIT_EDITOR='sed -i "1s/noop/exec make -C dir\/ lint/"' git rebase -i HEAD

[formal schooner]

And what is the error? You end up in the main repo dir and not the extra worktree dir?

[rotund girder]

The git grep command completely fails with a Fatal error

You should be able to reproduce by just running that short script in a new folder.

The worktree misunderstands where the repo root is.

[formal schooner]

Interesting

Is that a bug?

[rotund girder]

In a sense. I raised an issue about worktrees a year ago that the first "main" worktree is handled differently than other worktrees, but at that point it was just a small layout/print difference. It's a known issue.

So this might caused by the same underlying issue.

[rose bear]

Hey back there, I have question about python monorepo

I was here yesterday

[final island]

hell yeah! a classic W kaddkaka issue

and for very widely used software, to boot

super appreciated

even though I don't use git worktrees, it's continually nice to hear you contribute through issues and such

[final island]

awwwww I love your pfp

[rotund girder]

W? 🤔🤓

[final island]

internet slang, short for "win"

commonly used to praise someone

and there's the opposite "L"

which stands for loss

[rotund girder]

Oh, never seen 😁👌

[rotund girder]

I reported this as a bash bug and the developer Chet Ramey apparently already provided a fix to bash devel branch! 😎 https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/bash.git/commit/?h=devel&id=254081c09767738833cdf161b4bc3feb1a51690a

+                   9/24
+                   ----
+jobs.c
+    - start_job: don't fetch the tty settings if we're being called from
+      a readline key binding (bind -x) or programmable completion
+      From a report by David Moberg <[e-mail]>

🤩 😎

[grave lagoon]

heyyy

[rotund girder]

👋

[chilly anvil]

My grandpa made unix what it is today RIP

[fickle granite]

Your grandpa was Ken Thompson?

[spark mulch]

Was? AFAIK Ken Thompson is alive :)

[fickle granite]

wikihoovia agrees with you

just curious who MasterOfNun's grandpa is/was

[junior comet]

guys do i pick linux or mint? or is there any other os you guys recommend cause i wanna dual boot linux on my system

[fickle granite]

mint is linux

I think you're asking: "which distro should I choose to dual-boot"? My answer would be: find other people who are doing it, and see what works for them.

If I had no other data, I'd go with Ubuntu, simply because it's the most popular distro

[final island]

ubuntu and mint are both extremely popular

[fickle granite]

sure whatever

[final island]

which is relevant, because as a beginner, you'll be able to get more help more easily

@junior comet if you have no clue, good enough idea to pick one of them

[fickle granite]

hence my suggestion to see what other people are using

[junior comet]

i meant ubuntu 🫠 instead of linux in that sentence

idk brain got fried or somn

[final island]

I've heard better things about mint than about ubuntu, fwiw

[junior comet]

yeah i was thinking ubuntu simply cause its more popular and more tutorials exist for it

[final island]

I cannot name a single of those things, but the general consensus I heard is that people enjoy mint more

[final island]

this is valuable also, though

[shrewd stratus]

for example, no snap

[junior comet]

yeah same thing i have seen but its not as popular in terms of help while searching

[final island]

yeah lmao

god forbid snaps

[junior comet]

wait i thought snap was nice? is it not

[junior comet]

oh damn

[final island]

I know a guy that actively uses them

flabbergasts me

surprised I haven't blocked him yet /j

[junior comet]

i have seen few vids that talk of it as a positive point

[fickle granite]

I used a snap once by mistake. It was ... annoying

[shrewd stratus]

it's controversial

to say the least

[junior comet]

idk what it exactly does nor why its used as much

[final island]

nice, good job on researching

[fickle granite]

it's super-containerized

[junior comet]

bruh i searched snap and first comment is why do people hate snap

[final island]

with linux, you'll need to do that a lot, make sure to retain patience

[junior comet]

yeah if i am gonna dual boot i prolly wont be changing it anytime soon

[fickle granite]

the snap I used was of some software that creates a file, and the docs for the software clearly stated that the file gets created in the current directory. But because it was a snap, instead of a normal program, it actually created the file in /var/snap/)#(*$&()*#*$(*&#(*&$(*&/youll-never-find-me-mua-ha-ha-, which took me a long time to track down

[shrewd stratus]

IIRC, a major point against snap is that the backend is proprietary

[final island]

the most realistic case is that you're going to find them useful for a while, and maybe in the future realize the issue with them

[junior comet]

i see

[final island]

for now you don't really need to worry about our nerd points about snaps

[fickle granite]

it's probably telling that nobody but Ubuntu uses them. If they were genuinely useful, I'd expect to see them used more widely

[shrewd stratus]

it was developed by Canonical, so of course Ubuntu uses them

[final island]

don't be afraid to try things out! you can gain pretty valuable experience by trying multiple distros for a noticeable amount of time

if it's something you would be interested in

on metal, I've tried debian (hated it) and then switched to endeavor os, and loved it ever since

[junior comet]

thank you tbf main reason why i am trying to switch to linux atm is cause i dont wanna use windows 11 and windows 10 support ends next year

[final island]

oof that's sucky

[junior comet]

and ubuntu feels nice on my vmware

[fickle granite]

It's faintly conceivable that if I used snaps a lot, I'd come to appreciate their advantages ... but that hasn't happened yet 🙂

[junior comet]

i use ubuntu whenever i wanna do something related to networking

[final island]

nice, linux is amazing, especially in comparison

hope your journey isn't going to be too difficult

[junior comet]

yeah hopefully

[final island]

you'll be amazed once you have it on hardware!

linux performance is insane

[fickle granite]

If those are your only criteria, then you should consider MacOS.

[junior comet]

prolly will be debating it for a while, might put some on my vms and see which one i like

[junior comet]

i mean...wouldnt macos be optimized for like apple hardware

[shrewd stratus]

or BSD

[fickle granite]

Not just "optimized for" but "only runs on"

[final island]

or as I like to say: "you could make the argument that [example argument], but I'm not gonna make that argument"

[fickle granite]

well you could say that

[junior comet]

ah...no i am not planning on buying an apple system 💀

[fickle granite]

ok, Linux it is then

[junior comet]

indeed

so far i have tested mint and ubuntu

kali as well but not that interested to use kali

[fickle granite]

OK you might as well check out FreeBSD 🤣

I think I'm 15% serious

[final island]

lmao don't

[junior comet]

damn

[final island]

a funnier suggestion would be nix

[fickle granite]

yep

[junior comet]

i should try arch just for the memes

[fickle granite]

there was a time when I was fascinated to try out all the distros.

but now https://tenor.com/bjFit.gif

[final island]

arch is actually genuinely really nice, I've been loving it
but jumping onto arch before you realize what your problems it solves, without first having those problems, makes no sense

[fickle granite]

that's true for ... any technology at all, really

my biggest gripe about most technical documentation is: they rarely explain the problem that the tech is intended to solve

it's impossible to make a rational choice if you don't know that

[final island]

for the most part, yeah
but especially true with arch, because it does have a pretty glaring tradeoff

so it's not just a direct benefit

you're paying for that benefit, basically

[fickle granite]

what's the big tradeoff?

[junior comet]

yeah i currently have no real problems so far
i have like 2 main criteria atm for what i wanna do in linux

1. tutorials and troubleshooting stuff should be easier, aka when i run into an issue or need to do something in linux, there should ideally be a tutorial for it
2. ease of use, i will prolly not be doing much other than just projects or work related stuff rather than configuring the system considering most of my time is just gonna be spent on the ide or browsing

[final island]

because the versions are very up to date, less stability because of less testing of all those different versions together

it's not catastrohpic, unlike some people suggest, but it can be noticeable

[fickle granite]

OK, this is now 50% serious -- https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

I've never tried it myself, but it's been around a long time, and appears to get frequent updates. It's hard-core low-level stuff, but I bet if you went through it you'd be able to get a high-paying job

[final island]

I'm having a hard time coming up with the example, but something like python2->python3 is just a direct upgrade of the software, while debian and arch more so use different tradeoffs to give you different things, rather than one of them being directly better

[junior comet]

hmm its certainly interesting, altho it looks more like a holiday project tbh

[final island]

2 days aren't going to be enough

[junior comet]

yeah prolly a week long holiday where i have no other commitments

[final island]

yep! possibly that

although I'm unsure how reasonable of an adventure it is for a complete beginner

I wouldn't recommend it

[junior comet]

yeah going through it, there is a lot

[final island]

yeah dw about it for now, or ever honestly

get comfortable with actually using linux at first

[junior comet]

fair enough

[final island]

get acquainted with the command line to some degree

there is a LOT of power in the commandline, although idk how much power you even need

so, focus on solving problems you actually have, basically

[junior comet]

hmm so far i dont use the cli as much even in ubuntu, maybe it will change for future projects ig

maybe its cause most of my projects just involve web dev or aiml stuff

[final island]

it's hard to come up with a use for something if you don't know how it can help you

I would strongly recommend proactively learning about the commandline

get youtube to recommend you some shell tutorials and such

things like "top 10 most useful bash commands!"

[junior comet]

yea ig i can browse through some of it

[final island]

even iceberg level knowledge is beneficial

since you seem to be a developer, linux commandline is a pretty strongly important skill

[chilly anvil]

I am a cli junkie

I like making interpreters for my microcontroller

Oh and i make all my own commands i don't use linux anymore

[rotund girder]

Tell us more 👀

[chilly anvil]

Got hacked too much

Sure ask me questions plz do

Plymouth is for persistence or was and bluez is how they hacked me for a long time

Bluesnarf

I h8 hacking btw love code i'm like the younger richard stallman imo

[rotund girder]

I know 59% of the words you use..

[chilly anvil]

I destroyed the arduino language in days moved on to the raspberry pi pico w and been here for weeks love it i'll teach ya if you want

Ik inline asm bin hex dec chr etc everything. you interested?

Oh and do you use python3 or micropython? i will give free code today

Anyways my grandfather helped build unix and now i will present to you all my own custom version made entirely from scratch TyWin OS no kernel none needed

while True:

Indent

a=str(input("$: ")

if (a=="clear"):

Print \n

There is your code you can now make a microcontroller your base or house or heaven hahaha

Tywin wins

Also i'm a sexy 24 year old man lookin for a computer girl lmk if there are any unix girls out there 🥰😍

I have more on registers if you wanna learn

More code

[obtuse yarrow]

what if a isn't clear

[fluid warren]

honestly i think instead of hoping for a tutorial users should have a decent understanding of the system to try and fix it themselves

troubleshooting and things breaking is an inherent part of linux and if you hope for a step by step guide for every issue you might not have a great time

at least in my experience

but if it works for you. pop off, my opinion is pretty irrelevant

[rotund girder]

This. It will help you to understand the basics from early on and how to get more information.

• man
• which and $PATH
• --help
• difference between shell/terminal
• difference between command/alias/function

and like I use to say: there is no magic.

[fluid warren]

this is why i recommend gentoo linux to all beginners ||/j||

(but fr gentoo made me a linux machine)

[rotund girder]

Hmm? Explain, is gentoo very broken or what?

[fluid warren]

no but its about as close to linux from scratch as you can get without linux from scratch

you manually build everything, configure grub, kernel, ect

[rotund girder]

ah I see

[fluid warren]

you can do basicalyl whatever you want from a fresh install

and things break a lot if you arent a linux god

but since you are in complete control it can be insanely stable

basically the issue is always the user not the system

and portage is godly if you use it right its one of the most stable dependency managers in unix

i am bias though since i daily drive gentoo on my computer

[rotund girder]

I see, I just run Ubuntu as it's what we have at the office.

So... how would you compare gentoo+portage and NixOS, different beasts altogether I guess

[fluid warren]

yeah nix is just a whole different beast

nix is like, if i need 100 comptuers to work out of the box for my employees

ill use nix

[rotund girder]

Because that is what some of colleagues are using, so that would be my convenientest option to ubuntu

[fluid warren]

gentoo is like, i brick my system weekly so i need as much control as possible to bring it back from the depths of hell

source: i brick linux a lot and gentoo has saved me

arch fucked me over multiple times

pacman is just terrible IMO

and i cant stand the arch community

the 2 things i hate

oh and they think installing arch is hard

[rotund girder]

good to know

[umbral sluice]

I wiped my system to install nixos a few weeks ago

It's great when it works, but when stuff doesn't work there's a bit more work involved to get everything working since a lot of how nixos does things is different

[tribal finch]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

that would be so inconvenient

how do you get anything done?

[fluid warren]

i use gentoo because its the most stable for somebody like me

[tribal finch]

No; Why do you brick your system weekly?

[fluid warren]

pacman really liked to remove python core libraries for me

portage has been stable, arch was not

[tribal finch]

So use something more stable? Lol

[fluid warren]

i do

gentoo

everytime ive broken gentoo its been me, not the PM

[tribal finch]

I've never had any issues like that with normal distros - Ubuntu, RHEL or SUSE based, Clear Linux, etc.

[fluid warren]

i just like the control you get with gentoo

building gentoo yourself step by step is fun

if i ever get tired of gentoo ill probably just go to mint and never touch a config file again though

[tribal finch]

smh. Idk how that's fun. I have 500,000 other things to do besides waiting for my system to compile instead of using it

[fluid warren]

you can use it while its compiling

i do it all the time

you can set how many threads you want to use on portage

so i could use 2 threads then use the rest for any other comptuer activity

or just sudo emerge -auDvn @world then go to bed

wake up with an updated system

to be honest we are at the point of computing where compiling something isnt crippling a machine

maybe in 2001 gentoo wasnt useable while compiling a kernel but thats not the case at all anymore

(i dont even think gentoo existed in 2001 lol)

[tribal finch]

it's not about resources, it's about time. I don't have time to compile something everytime I want to use it

[fluid warren]

you can setup a binary mirror which uses a binary if its available

and theres bins for things like firefox and chromium now

even a kernel bin

[tribal finch]

at that point, you might as well just use any other distro that hosts a repository for you ;)

[fluid warren]

nah

i still compile plenty of stuff

i also only have 8gb of ram and i prefer to have as much available as possible

gentoo has by far been the fastest system ive used

and the part i enjoy is that a fresh install comes with completely nothing

bare bones linux

i also find that the learning experience you get from gentoo to be very rewarding

you probably arent digging though xorg logs on mint very often

oh i forgot my favorite feature

portage USE flags are godly

i can set something like USE= 'X nvidia -bluetooth -telemetry which tells portage to always install optional X and nvidia deps, but ignore optional bluetooth or telemetry deps

you can also set portage to only allow certain licenses which is super cool

[tribal finch]

I sure hope not! I have better things to do than troubleshoot things all the time

[fluid warren]

and thats probably why you dont use gentoo

i love doing stuff like this

[tribal finch]

exactly, lol. Like i said, I have 500,000 other projects to work on at home, I need to operating systems to be stable so I can I actually do them

[fluid warren]

anyways

that was a very unconstructive conversation

and a long way of saying people have different wants and needs

[astral grove]

I kept saying for several years that I'd stop using arch when my system properly broke because I didn't have time/interest in maintaining it. It refused to break on me

trying to use a fancy distro gives me nightmares nowadays

[fluid warren]

The only system I haven't been able go break has been gentoo

Arch self destructed a few times

[junior comet]

ah i didnt really mean tutorial for fixing something wrong with the system, i meant tutorials in the form of new applications or software that is compatible, for example for network simuation we use ns3, and pretty much every tutorial for ns3 is based on ubuntu

so its just a lot more convenient to not try to troubleshoot issues on a different os cause everyone is showing troubleshooting and tutorials based on ubuntu

for this ns3 thing, i couldnt even find anything related to being done on mint or something else

[final island]

could someone please explain / point to the correct docs about git's "fast forward"ing? I don't really get what that means, and the wording doesn't make it obvious for me. I've been using git for a while and I've made several programs around git, so I understand most things fairly well, except fast forwarding

[spark mulch]

When merging a completely linear history (i.e. the commits are all based on the one you're on right now), Git by default doesn't create a merge commit, but instead just advances your head to the thing you're merging; or it fast-forwards. You can force it to create an (empty) merge commit instead to better show that some group of commits were on a branch.

HEAD       somebranch
   |           |
   a - b - c - d

If you are at HEAD and git merge somebranch, you will just move to commit d.

[final island]

ohhhhh! what a lovely explanation

the name "fast forward" makes more sense now

thank you!!

[formal schooner]

@final island it's not unlike git reset-ing

basically it just moves HEAD without creating a merge commit, but it will only do it if it's "safe" to do so (i.e. not with the full power of git reset)

[final island]

ohhhhhhhhh

so it's a metaphorical git reset --hard branchie --unless

or --ask-for-consent, opposing --force

which I'm pretty sure doesn't even exist for git reset ahahahaha

[radiant kraken]

@formal pasture I wrote an example package for implementing daemon processes in both Unix (double-forking) and Windows (detached processes), if you want to look through it:
https://github.com/thegamecracks/daemon-example sh $ thedaemon start $ thedaemon start Daemon already running $ thedaemon ping pong $ thedaemon stop stop $ thedaemon ping Failed to connect to daemon; did you start it? Given my lack of experience in the subject I can't say if the implementation is good, but that might be sufficient for your project. Of course, it's still up to you to decide how to handle re-scheduling; if you stick with a selector-based server like mine, it would be theoretically possible to implement sleeping by setting a .select(timeout=) to wake up at a given timestamp, but asyncio can also work for this purpose as well

(hmm i probably should have posted this in #async-and-concurrency )

[formal pasture]

Wow! Awesome!

[formal pasture]

Nah, i think this is pretty unix aswell

[formal pasture]

Thanks!

[formal schooner]

Yeah, but to be clear, it's more about the current committee being an ancestor of the fast forward destination

The name is a metaphor for "fast forward" on a VCR or cassette tape -- just jump forward in history without changing anything

[tribal finch]

speaking of git

I accidently added a file to be staged when I wasn't ready for it, so I ran git restore --staged $file, then did a commit. Now git status doesn't show the file at all, but it also wasn't committed, and git add --all still doesn't add the file. I'm confused, how did it get completely untracked?

[formal schooner]

Is the file physically present still?

[tribal finch]

yup

[formal schooner]

Does it still contain your changes?

[tribal finch]

yup

but the repo doesn't, it's the old version

[formal schooner]

it's not visible at all in git status as changed?

[tribal finch]

nope

[formal schooner]

huh

hold that thought, baby is crying

[summer trail]

what does git status -vu $file report?

whoops, meant to reply to @tribal finch

[tribal finch]

Thanks for the ping! I’ll go check :)

[summer trail]

and: does git show HEAD:$file show your changes, or show the old version?

[tribal finch]

sorry, just got back to my desk

[tribal finch]

nothing

[tribal finch]

it shows the current version, not the old one

[ivory warren]

Is there an area for docker ?

[summer trail]

then... the repo does contain the new version

why do you say it doesn't?

[tribal finch]

the change isnt' reflected in github when I veiw it in a browser

[summer trail]

maybe you missed a git push ?

[tribal finch]

yup, that's exactly it

anyway, learned some new things about git, so thank you!

I did one, but I guess I ended up with a commit, push, and then commit, but not a second push

[final island]

yep, got that

[brazen wren]

What is Unix anyway?

[foggy laurel]

Unix is a basically a dead operating system, but most operating systems besides Windows are based on it and are call "Unix-like" systems. Here are some key differences between Windows and Unix(-like) systems:

• There is a standard set of utility applications for the command line
• Programs are usually stored either /bin/, /usr/bin/ (less common apps), and or somewhere in a user's user folder.
• Slashes are used instead of backslashes for directories and there is no C:\ D:\ etc, there is one main drive and every other drive gets mounted in /mnt/
• root is the user which has all control of the system and Unix usually has better permission systems for files and users

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix

Some OS's based on Unix include Linux, MacOS, FreeBSD, Android, and iOS

[summer trail]

Basically every OS that's widely used today, with the sole exception of Windows

[wise forge]

And if we extend Unit to Unix like, then it becomes the most used OS indeed
which dominates ...pretty much everything except Windows Desktop.

• Android? Unix like (some Linux based)
• Servers? Linuxes
• Embedded devices, Arduinos? Linuxes
• Favourite desktop dev machine? Linuxes 😏

[summer trail]

Arduino isn't Linux, actually

[wise forge]

Raspberry Pi OS is a Unix-like operating system based on the Debian Linux distribution for the Raspberry Pi family of compact single-board computers. Wikipedia
okay, unix like too
Based on debian though, soo... Linux 😏

i meant apperently Raspberry Pi then.
not sure what is used there for Arduino

[prime magnet]

it would be great that Microsoft releases a unix-flavored version of Windows