career-advice

[broken kettle]

@sudden hatch could use codewars as well, excellent for getting the hang of a new language.

[sudden hatch]

Yes, I've thought of doing some exercises on coding platform to practice python.

@chrome hamlet From what I've heard, I too think documents might be the way to go for someone who's not new to programing.

[jade blade]

Hi, I am 18 yo, first year CSE UG,looking for an advice, I learnt python, practiced enough...I Understand it superficially except advanced concepts like OOP, now i want to explore AI or ML(I can learn OOP and other concepts in go if needed), but I am confused which one to start from,first? Can you help please? I have knowledge of B.Tech level linear algebra,probability, discrete mathematics.

[hallow stump]

I went exploring into AI first

I’m looking at editing with AI and I can’t find a good software for editing videos and stuff like that. Can someone suggest a good editing platform I can use

[marsh wind]

Or start some project going

That's kinda what I did. Set a bar high and pick what you need along the way

[sudden hatch]

What project did you choose?

[marsh wind]

Ooph.. I think I was creating script and then a discord bot to hit some game API to query players data and stats, then store to sqlite, calculate some numbers

Plot history of some clan players stats growth, stuff like that

[sudden hatch]

Nice. Sounds fun.

[hallow stump]

Can someone suggest and editing platform I can use

[marsh wind]

Disclaimer: I never finished it 😁 but learned a lot

[gray anvil]

I was gonna recommended lpthw since it's so exercise heavy 😅😅

[gray anvil]

Seconding this, documentation reading plus exercises is probably the fastest way. If anything a video would be even slower

[odd totem]

Like an IDE?

I use VSCode

[narrow verge]

Almost every one is using Vs code It is a great IDE

[hallow stump]

Ty

[vapid jay]

nice

[burnt peak]

What is ide?

[daring schooner]

Integrated Development Environment

[vapid jay]

i need suggestion
i want to be a machine learning engineer but i don't know what to do after 10 which subject should i choose for computer science commerce or mathmatics
pls help me ?

[marsh wind]

you need to give us more information to better understand what do you have there as options
you already asked this multiple times and you got the best responses you can get considering what you asked/provided

[lean wolf]

import pgzrun 
from random import randint 

HEIGHT = 800
WIDTH = 800

arkaplan=Actor("surface")
arkaplan.pos=400,550

mekik=Actor("apollolander")
mekik.pos=randint(100,700),100


TARGET=Rect((randint(100,700) ,100),(50,50)) #x=randint(100,700) y=700 , hedefin büyüklüğü 50 ye 50
def draw():
    screen.clear()
    arkaplan.draw()
    mekik.draw()
    screen.draw.textbox("MERHABA BEN ONURALP KERİM",(100,100,200,50),shadow=(1.0,1.0), scolor="blue") #sol , üst ,en , yükseklik


pgzrun.go()

how

[marsh wind]

@lean wolf this is not the channel for the help with code. Please take a look at #❓｜how-to-get-help

[lean wolf]

thank you

[loud timber]

Hey guys
Good day to everybody! Hope everyone is safe at home!
I have learned the fundamentals of Python and stuck at a phase on what to choose to move further?
Can somebody point out the available options?

[inner wren]

@vapid jay Per Rule 6, your invite link has been removed. If you believe this was a mistake, please let staff know!

Our server rules can be found here: https://pythondiscord.com/pages/rules

[floral minnow]

How what?

[crisp jewel]

Hello everyone hru? I am going to pursue a career in computer science and I was wondering if it would be a better option to try getting a job while at college or not go to college and try getting a computer science degree without a college degree I'm currently in 10th grade so this will be in 2 years from now I code hours each day and I think in 2 years I would be good enough to get the job without a college degree but to get the better management positions later on I need a college degree so I'm a bit on the fence

By getting a job at college I mean a part time job as a software engineer

[buoyant rampart]

Hey @crisp jewel! I am in 9th grade (right below you) and I am also interested in a computer science career. I honestly would think a collage degree would look better on a job application but when I talked to my computer science teacher (who runs the courses at my school) he said that I could possibly find a temp job in coding (like an apprenticeship or take on small tasks) and then once I get through collage, then I could find a better job. I, personally, would not skip collage (but that is just me). I think you would be better off getting a collage degree.

[deep relic]

hey can anyone guide me as to where to start?

[marsh wind]

!resources is a great collection really.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[crisp jewel]

hey the main probably when you don't have a degree is it's almost impossible to get a job above a senior developer

If I do college I will be double majoring in finance and computure science so a temp job might not be possible but it might still be

[glad nymph]

Im a 15 yr old can I get a job I know python and java

[crisp jewel]

That really depends on the person you could probably do some freelance work it really depends on how good are you. If I were you I would look into bug bounty hunting it's fun and gives you good experience and if you get good enough at it it could pay alot

[glad nymph]

Im probably better at django or web dev than ml so ya freelancing could be good

[crisp jewel]

with freelancing you also don't need to worry if you need to show up for work you can do it at your own time so if you have all your finals for example you can wait off on that

[buoyant rampart]

Sometimes you have to just wait and do what is necessary to get that job. No shortcuts. Maybe you could do something else in the mean time. I plan to do moderation on public servers (like Discord).

[crisp jewel]

Yea I think I will just go to college I might apply for a part time job see if they can do like 1 or 2 days a week to get some work experience

Anyways for now i'm just going to focus on my finals and coding projects

[buoyant rampart]

Good idea

[crisp jewel]

Thank you for all your help have a good day cya

[vapid jay]

I mean what subject should I choose a proper suggestions

And I want to know is machine learning engineering is best @Lossberg#8462

[marsh wind]

what is your pool of subjects from which you have to choose? @vapid jay

[vapid jay]

Like commerce or mathematics for computer science

[marsh wind]

"The universsal best" does not exist. the best in the one that:

1. you enjoy doing
2. you can well

[vapid jay]

And one more dought

Is machine learning engineering is a scope in future ?

[vapid jay]

Ya I love to do programming bit I'm confused which subject should I choose

[marsh wind]

go for math/stats/programming/comp sci related subjects then.
ML is not going anywhere in near future, that's for sure

[vapid jay]

Is ml has a scope in future ..?

[marsh wind]

what do you mean? I already said that ML is not going anywhere in near future, that's for sure. I am not sure what else you are trying to ask sorry

[vapid jay]

Ok now i got that

Thank you so much

[marsh wind]

you're welcome. Also, it is probably best to try different things while you can before choosing something to specialise in

[vapid jay]

im taking computer science, maths, physics for A level, does anyone think i should be doing more if i want a career in computer science?

[normal harness]

hey guys i am new here !!!

any data scientist here?

[sudden quartz]

I dont know what A level is, but you dont need physics for computer science or software engineering so you could be doing less. Replace physics with Statistics

[swift veldt]

seconding this. Math and stat imply some amount of data manipulation while presenting some abstract representation challenges.
Modeling a ROC for instance is a neat exercise. Or simply implementing a SVM from scratch.

Also congrats on the yellowing

[rocky zealot]

Hi Guys!

I’ve learned all the basics of python and already did a couple of projects to understand everything. Now I want to move further but I don't know what I should learn next or what important topics or unessential topics are. I would appreciate some advice’s about what i should learn next or how i can become better at python.

[vapid jay]

If you're in 9th grade rn by 12th you'll basically know the majority of important early courses in a cs undergrad such as functional programming, data structures, etc.
You can also definitely get a job prior, you just need to make a decent portfolio and ideally know a guy.

[vapid jay]

Why don't you make a portfolio and try to get a job now? You're in 10th grade so none of this matters for quite a while. If you want to prepare for any quant degree or stem just take AP calc or some college level calc and college level CS, AP physics is usually a good one to take too, AP stats is worth it, AP chem might be worth it

Both of you honestly can get the same knowledge as the first two years of a cs undergrad easily by the time you graduate high school.

[crisp jewel]

I'm planning on taking AP CALC BS ib hl physics and ap cs (even do I already know the stuff just for the credits)

I was thinking about taking ib hl chem aswell not 100% do but thx for the advice @vapid jay

I was thinking of maybe tutoring people in computer science a bit to add to my resume aswell as more projects over the summer.

[vapid jay]

take a look at the programs u wanna do then just knock out their pre-reqs

where I go, CS and most quant degrees require calc 1, calc 2, physics 1, physics 2

Where you wanna go, that might be totally different so check it out.

[vivid hollow]

Well, this is my first post here, but I guess it's not a bad place to start. I'm not going into Software Engineering, but rather Chemical Engineering for college. However, will having knowledge of python and other languages help me in my career?

[summer roost]

It certainly won't hurt. I know an experimental chemist who writes Python, and it's not uncommon in biochemistry

[vivid hollow]

Oh nice. I learned it this year, I know most of the basics and right now I'm trying to get classes down, since currently the class I am taking at school is focused on pygame right now, which though cool, is probably not the most practical application of the language. I think most video games are written in Java anyway, I think

On a side note, I am taking a course on that for my senior year of high school (AP Computer Science I think)

[jolly charm]

When studying university in UK, do you just choose the course, e.g. Computer Science.

Or do you choose the modules within those?

[near ocean]

Usually the first year's modules are all core, compulsory

After that you get to pick modules to reach the limit in credits to graduate

[jolly charm]

@near ocean Thank you 🙂

[buoyant rampart]

Yep. My teacher said that he has gotten 1/4 of his senors in a job before they left the school

[fossil ruin]

I am also taking these + further maths. I doubt you need more, unis only look at 3 A-levels with a 4th further maths as preferable in the very top unis.

They only important thing is to do well and display your skills

[static compass]

Are you trying to get a job or just learning for fun? What are your goals?

[hazy kindle]

I started python just for fun during quarantine

Working on a game maybe if I have enough time

[rocky zealot]

Right now i am just doing it for fun but someday i also want to get a job

[hazy kindle]

Same man

@vivid path WHY ARE YOU HERE!?

[rocky zealot]

I think my goals are to explore everything about python and maybe learn more about machine learning

[static compass]

hmmm I gotcha, why not do something involving that then? I'd make a more specific suggestion but I have yet to learn much about ML yet although I'd love to

[static compass]

all I've heard is that the Andrew Ng course is really good but that is just hear say

[rocky zealot]

Ok i will try that course thank you for your help

[vapid jay]

@fossil ruin thanks for the help g

[vapid jay]

Same it's me

[vapid jay]

I also want to be a machine learning engineer
And I started learning python

[snow garnet]

.

[vapid jay]

How do I connect my Raspberry Pi to my LCD hat?

[jovial cape]

Hey guys, can anybody help me to start learning python and projects too?

[fossil ruin]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fossil ruin]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[jovial cape]

thank you

[gray anvil]

You apply directly to the course and parent faculty. Most courses have space for you to pick several modules electively, and at least 0.5-1 mod a year that can be from other faculties. Check in the prospectus for the uni you're applying to

[misty idol]

So I'm looking to sure up my CV and focus it towards a pure dev path, with the hopes to migrate away from my current management role. I have a question about linking to my GitHub profile.

I have quite a few old projects on there from when I was learning. There code quality on them isn't the best, I also update them with minor changes occasionally. Should I make those private, so that the only public projects are those that I'm proud of?

Or, would a hiring manager prefer to see those older ones to view progress over time?

I'm UK based if that changes anything.

[gray anvil]

I was in this position recently, you can set favourite projects so they appear at the top of your github page. Then you could highlight them on your personal website or in the highlights/projects section on your cv if you have space

I'd say don't private the older stuff, it does show you've been quite active and tbph I don't think people will really click on them, so the main takeaway is the impression that you've been keeping your hand in

[digital owl]

Is it a red flag if it's me who always has to reach out to HR for asking about onboarding stuff? They haven't told me what happens on day 1 and I haven't received my laptop yet. I start next Monday

[unreal orchid]

Good luck 🤞

[digital owl]

uh thanks, but what do you think?

[unreal orchid]

I graduated from Highschool last week

But I hmmm...
Wait till Monday, we'll see what happens then

[brisk cipher]

Hi all```

[dense mesa]

Has anyone used Python for applying as a software engineer in trading firms?

Companies like Optiver, Jane Street, etc, they require you to be insanely good at Leetcode. But they're more low latency, and so is C++ preferable?

[cinder thicket]

skrt

skrt

[misty idol]

Hmm, yea. That makes sense, Thanks 😄

[exotic summit]

Hello! So, i love proggraming in python, but i dont know what are the paths that i can take to make this in a profesional way, without being any kind of data scientist.

thanks in advance

[vapid jay]

!warn 660276928518946846 Do not dump random memes into the server, especially in on-topic channels.

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied warning to @regal osprey.

[regal osprey]

:(

[sweet vessel]

Not really a red flag, especially if it is a small company. If you are anxious to get a jump on things, email your hiring manager.

[south finch]

hello

i have one questione

Do you have a good road-map for python ? I am beginner and I wanna learn python for web dev

i know list set func etc etc

should I learn Django ?

[spare wave]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-there-private-from-penguins-of-madagascar-hi-wave-hey-there-gif-16043627

[digital owl]

It has 180 employees, not sure if that's small

[mortal wedge]

Not necessarily a red flag, just might be a smaller company that hasn't streamlined their processes yet?

[sweet vessel]

Eh, go ahead and contact your manager. They will be happy that you are eager to get started, and will know best what you need to look at or do. Or he/she may redirect you to another person, maybe another recent hire. Or may just say, "We aren't really ready yet, have a good week and we'll see you on Monday."

[digital owl]

wont contacting the manager means going under the HR?

the HR might feel they are incompetant

[sweet vessel]

Whichever you are more comfortable with. If you are unsure, then just sit tight until Monday.

[digital owl]

im just nervous if they are gonna ditch me at the last moment

[tawny lion]

What is career path for Data Analytics ??? Kindly guide. 😊

[cinder storm]

Carrer guide for software engineering in germany

[zealous path]

Question for SoftwareDeveloper/Programmer recruiters, what do you look for in a (graduate) CV?

[hardy leaf]

How can i earn after learning Python ?

[round spruce]

Anyone know if there's any python gamedev jobs

Probably not right lol

[vernal terrace]

try to build a portfolio
with interesting projects

[vapid jay]

Wow most recent coding test was really huge reality check. I truly suck at it. Worst part of it is that i have a full time job ( not related to IT ) that provides me the well needed income and freelancing gigs that boost my exp. But for past few weeks i applied here and there and had screening i passed it plus 2 additional quizz test. Then i got this coding challenge and im totally bummed out by it.

[vast shoal]

What did you have to do?

[summer roost]

The questions asked in coding tests tend to be very different than the things you need to know to actually code. Have you heard of the book "Cracking the Coding Interview"?

You should view learning how to do well on a coding test as a completely (or at least mostly) distinct skill from learning how to do well at coding.

And you can practice the two skills independently

[buoyant seal]

Sounds like messed up hiring process %)
But I guess I should expect it in 9/10 places, so better to read it

[summer roost]

it's an intrinsic problem with interviewing, unfortunately: the skills that are easiest to evaluate and to compare across candidates are not the skills that are most useful in the job.

the most practical alternatives are either very long take-home tests (4-8 hours for a good candidate, let's say) or hiring people on a provisional basis with the understanding that there's a decent chance they won't be keeping the job after 6 weeks. Both of which have their own downsides.

[vapid jay]

Hello, I have a question
Since Fiverr is technically a career place (freelancong), i thought it might be appropriate to ask my question here

Basically, I wanted to sell something on Fiverr, but it looks like they want to ask me for my college, but I just got accepted into a high school

What do I do?

[gray anvil]

Tell the truth?

[heady cove]

How u guys started python and made a career in it.. Like I know some basics but I can't move forward as there are many fields

[bold kraken]

https://mr-unity-buddy.hashnode.dev/common-characteristics-of-good-programmers

[buoyant seal]

just was lucky to get myself into nice startup, entrance level is quite low in them
then just a lot of self education, because no one will teach you there except you

[devout egret]

do you have any sites or tutorials which could help me to become good at python too? 😃

[urban isle]

is data structures and algorithms is important for programming

[summer roost]

pretty important for programming, very important for getting hired as a programmer.

[urban isle]

but i am in school

and i love develoment

[summer roost]

you're in the career discussion channel, which would seem to imply that you want career oriented answers

[urban isle]

no i am just confused. cause there are many programmers saying that if you have cleared the intermediate programming then you should learn basics of ds algo

[sudden quartz]

intermediate before learning linked lists huh

[urban isle]

sorry i ment into intermediate

i learned opps and basic data structures like array stack heap linklists but there are lot of other contents like hashmaps bst.

so should i hold it there and start development

like web d

[buoyant seal]

I started my self learning after finishing education in university

this book is a good one for starting
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/introducing-python-2nd/9781492051374/

[devout egret]

Oh alright thanks alot :)

[abstract forum]

Hmmm.. should I aim for virological research and the genetic modification of humans using it... or should I go for artificial intelligence? Cuz tbh... I like them both... And I am currently leaning towards AI but idk.

One brings fortune towards the world... even giving non Born children with defects a chance to live a normal life... on the other hand I really hate evie bot so..... really want an improvement on that 👀

[vapid jay]

leetcode is a very specific skill, testing basically only a subset of cs undergrad courses like data structures and discrete mathematics

[vapid jay]

you could have started web dev way before that

[halcyon lichen]

graduation in bca and doing python data science + machine learning language is enough for jobs?

[shadow epoch]

Hi

[gloomy pawn]

Hello 👋

Sir I am just a beginner
I have a will to learn programing
But I don't know how to start my career in programing

[wind oxide]

same here just purchased some course thru udemy is it beneficial if u learn thru there

[digital fjord]

@vocal violet hello, please contact modmail before advertising

[vocal violet]

Oh sorry. Thanks for letting me know

[kind berry]

Im looking for a python developer who can work with websockets .
Paid work .
Inbox me if anyone interested .

[true harness]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[kind berry]

Okay ! im sorry for this !

[vapid jay]

Hi everyone just a question, is python accessible to everyone ?

[wary phoenix]

Idk what you mean but its free and pretty straight-forward

[vapid jay]

I wanted to ask if it was really complicated or accessible to all at the beginning

[torn patio]

@vapid jay It is really accessible at the beginning. There are many tutorials you can look up on the internet that can teach you Python fairly quickly.

[vapid jay]

Ok thank you! Because often the ideas received are that it is something really complex!

Thanks for your advices

[torn patio]

You're welcome.

[wary phoenix]

its complex, just its very high-level

meaning you have almost no need to think about memory and pc stuff

[median solar]

Guys, what kind of deep learning projects look good on a resume for an internship?

[vapid jay]

do you need maths for computer science unis?

[fiery latch]

It helps. My university had a maths course for people that didnt do well on a test at the very start of the year

I didnt do well, so i had 5 weeks of extra maths classes

[crude folio]

Any good examples of personal sites for non-web devs? More focused on skills rather than flash?

[fiery latch]

But best way to know is to check the websites of the unis youre interested in

[vapid jay]

oh lmao i see im only choosing my a levels

i dont even know what uni to go to yet

[gray anvil]

Pick math if you can cut it, it opens a lot of uni courses up

[wet sail]

oof

[half dust]

any good coding jobs in canada

jk im only 13 i dont need a job

[pure beacon]

is bca good degree

[near thicket]

Looking to dive deep into Backend Development then transition to DevOps... How can I with python?

[fiery latch]

Have a look at a few anyway. You'll see requirements. Have a look at Bath, Keele, Wolverhampton. That should cover unis from the low end to the higher end

Looking at Bath they want Maths and further Maths. So unis of a similar pedigree will want the same

Keele and Wolvo dont seem to mind

So yes, take maths, it will give you more options

[brave dome]

I have a career question, for those who have experienced it, how difficult is it to get any cs related job with just the degree and little to no job experience

Do you often find difficulties doing so, or is the demand for computer scientists so high that jobs come fairly easy?

[fiery latch]

You should have some projects under your belt. I dont have a cs degree but get interviews based on my other qualifications and my projects

[astral harness]

--
Q: I've heard a lot about how translation (communication) of a problem is as important as technical expertise. Coming from a non-engineering background, I think I struggle with understanding how best to clearly communicate/discuss complex problems with teams/managers/interviewers. Any tips or courses on how to improve myself here? (@ me please)

[primal sandal]

Why is Maths important for software engineering? And how important is it?

[digital fjord]

you can sometimes run into math, but it isn't all that common beyond basic arithmetic. You can mostly program fine without knowing much of what traditionally falls under math

[primal sandal]

Would it be advised to take up Maths as a major in college?

Since, I've heard that it's easier to get a job if you have a maths degree

[digital fjord]

if you can't get a specific course like computer science, perhaps. Though that would put you more into the mathy side of programming, like set theory and type theory. In the end, a degree will help, but a degree that has more relevance to programming, such as computer science, computer engineering, electrical engineering or similar would likely help even more.

[primal sandal]

Okayy, thanks!

I'm in high-school right now, how experienced should I be before I start looking for internships?

[west girder]

Where can I send a funny picture?

[leaden jasper]

In a different server.

[fervent kindle]

oof

[sudden quartz]

find internships for freshman youd be qualified for
after you get accepted into university

[sudden quartz]

math makes for a good undergrad if combined with CS minor or MS but it depends on what youre wanting to do.
in general you dont need math for general software engineering

[primal sandal]

Okayy, thanks!

[sudden quartz]

so you dont know the concepts well and youre trying to explain them to an engineering team?

[sudden quartz]

Actual accreditted Computer Science is basically a math degree, so yes you need math. Software Engineering isnt CS but you need math for different areas of software engineering

[sudden quartz]

whats a bca? anyway its not enough, you need projects.

[primal sandal]

Difference b/w software engineering and CS?

[sudden quartz]

Software Engineering is an occupation and profession revolving around developing complex applications for clients.
Computer Science is a broad realm of study and research, like the study of networks, cellular automata, combinatorics, algorithms, and research in these areas. Its basically a part of mathematics like statistics. Making things to advance the study of practically all other fields. High end results in research publications.

P vs NP for example is computer science. Primarily concerning the theory of whether something can be computed and some more specific areas are neural networks, computer vision, bioinformatics, HCI, data mining, distributed systems.

[primal sandal]

I don't understand a lot of words, but I got the crux.. thanks!

[dense mesa]

You will be studying a lot of maths for computer science in the UK, maths is definitely worth taking. Further maths is even better to take if your school offers ir

[dense mesa]

Computer science is not software engineering

[dense mesa]

CS is where you ask the question: is X computable? Can we write a program with reasonable limits that can compute it?

Software engineering is about actually writing the program, not verifying or proving that it's possible to write

[primal sandal]

Oh okay, thanks!

[solemn raven]

Hey Um can I talk to someone about what I want in the future? Because I’m not sure of what I actually want so can I get some advice?

[spark tapir]

has anyone had a job working with django/flask? what is the day-to-day work that you perform and is there room to grow?

[sudden quartz]

I literally said that but more indepth. Try to add something more to discussion to avoid useless pings

[dense mesa]

There is no need to be toxic :)

[sudden quartz]

Has anyone had an instance where a official concentration helped them earn a position or interview?
For those who have Data Science positions do you have them with a bachelors in computer science only?

[leaden jasper]

There is benefit to explain things in simpler and more understandable terms.

[sudden quartz]

Primarily concerning the theory of whether something can be computed

[dense mesa]

That's exactly why I wrote it. Instead of a bunch of buzzwords which don't actually mean anything, I distilled the essence of CS into something a beginner can understand

[dense mesa]

You literally just edited your messages 😂

[near ocean]

What is an "official concentration"

[sudden quartz]

Um no they arent buzzwords they are field titles and specific problem names. and no, I did not just edit my messages.

[craggy elm]

what do you guys think that a rando salary increase of 8% after about 6 months means? seems like a lot for the time frame.

[sudden quartz]

a concentration that appears on a degree basically

[dense mesa]

Seems like a good thing

[leaden jasper]

Depends how well the org/company is doing and what other promotions look like. I know for me that wouldn't be out of the ordinary

[near ocean]

Im not sure what that means, you mean a major or something like that?

[sudden quartz]

no, if you dont know you probably cant answer my question but, a concentration is just that. a title like a minor.

you earned based on fulfilling specific upperlevel class requirements

[leaden jasper]

Egh. A minor for me was only useful because it was an uncommon pairing with my major. If they're closely related then it wouldn't provide that much of a benefit.

[craggy elm]

ime in the US, that's referred to as a major/minor for undergrad

[near ocean]

Sounds like a country specific thing so im gonna say no, it probably doesnt matter
Im trying to google it and all i get is nazi concentration camp stuff :woozy_face:

[sudden quartz]

concentration is not quite a minor. I have a minor in mathematics. a concentration for computer science BS is like data science

[dense mesa]

@sudden quartz why would an "official concentration" earn you a position/interview when they want experience instead

[leaden jasper]

I'm aware of what a concentration is. A concentration isn't that valuable honestly. It just shows what you're interested which your projects and work should ideally show.

Most people I know only got concentrations because they were 1 class way without trying and they figured why not

[sudden quartz]

Yes that was my belief and attitude but I may opt not to get it and im just making sure it does not harm data science career oppourtunities

Authentic data science positions typically require a graduate degree, so for data science academics matter some. and some might specifically ask for stats

[near ocean]

Do you need to do anything extra from what youre doing right noe to get it? If its not that much trouble i would say just do it, it cant hurt

[dense mesa]

Which country is this in?

If you ask a general question without giving any context to the region, seniority and so on, you'll get a general response

[sudden quartz]

2 classes, ill probably drop an Artificial Intelligence course and learn NLP on my own, and drop a big data and ML class

data science course i am taking regardless

[gray anvil]

That's a big if, and academics matter quite a bit in getting a good data science position

[round solar]

Hey I am from India, Looking to migrate Canada, anyone can help me with jobs

And please guide me how to start finding freelance job for python

[covert pawn]

jump

[round solar]

or php react, As due to covid i lost my job and looking for freelance work

[covert pawn]

try it out what did you think o=abiut it

or solo me out 🙂

[runic rover]

I wanna be ethical hacker🥸

[primal sandal]

His answer was simple to understand, and it helped me a lot. Your answer was definitely more detailed and explained things on depth, but I'm a beginner and didn't understand many of the words.
Both of your answers were great!

[mighty iris]

Hey, so I'm not a very experienced programmer, but I'm learning a lot right now. I was wondering, what kind of projects do you guys think someone could do? I'd like to work on a project that will help introduce me to many new concepts of programming that will be helpful in the future

[gray anvil]

It's a good start. I suggest you standardise how you are describing your projects:
What it's intended to do
What techniques/libraries you used to develop them

Try and put some hard numbers down on your work xp. How big are the classes you're teaching, how big is the DSS team you're working with, how many machines are you responsible for as an it squad member, how many students are you responsible for too

Fix your header, work experience company/University bits and also your university name, unless ofc you did that for privacy reasons

[midnight shore]

Thank you 🙂
I am gonna do those changes right away

The University/Company names are placeholders for privacy reasons

[primal sandal]

Is SQL useless?

I think I saw a video on YouTube which said that SQL is an useless and dead language

So should I spend my time learning SQL?

[gray anvil]

It really depends on where your home country is

[primal sandal]

I live in India

What is SQL exactly used for? Google says managing databases in websites

[vapid jay]

no yeah learn SQL

[primal sandal]

Isn't it better if I learn Java or data analysis with Python?

[gray anvil]

Ahm... You guys probably have lots of roles for sql still. Heck I live in Singapore now and a lot of places still need php devs because we are DINOSAURS

[primal sandal]

I'm a highschooler, and I'm thinking to do summer school that's why I'm asking

I have the following options:
SQL practitioner course
Data Analysis with Python
Java Basics and DSA

I know Python, but not from data analysis perspective.... And I have no idea about Java or SQL

[gray anvil]

If you take a proper approach and learn programming language fundamentals in java or python it's a good start. Sql wise sql is a sunset language and tbph you won't be served too well by learning backend database admin stuff to start. Learn an actual programming language instead imo

A lot of my devs are from India 😅

[primal sandal]

Yeah, I agree... I wanna learn a language properly... But I don't what to do after Python basics

[vapid jay]

learn a language youd think youd wanna learn

[primal sandal]

Should I learn Numpy, panda, matplotlib or machine learning stuff? Or AI?

[vapid jay]

oh as in modules lmao

[primal sandal]

I'm thinking to do JS, since it would help me a LOT in hackathons
I haven't participated in any hackathon 😭

[vapid jay]

same lol sadge

i mean js js basically just the web you might as well its way easier to use rather than some python frameworks

[primal sandal]

Btw, I'm a highschooler and started coding 4 months ago

Though, I haven't learnt anything new since a month

[primal sandal]

Nicee, I wanna do my higher education abroad btw... Singapore is on my list😁

So what is the conclusion of our discussion? @gray anvil @vapid jay

[gray anvil]

Yes keep learning the data science/data analytics libraries you mentioned, they're good ways to practise. That's how I got my start 👍👍

And please learn proper fundamentals too, I hate to say it, but some of our guys from India have zero regard for the fundamentals. Using inbuilt python function names as variable names, honestly 😒

[primal sandal]

I was thinking that I should learn new languages right now, since I'm a highschooler and not interested in any particular field as of now... Like learning JS or Java

[primal sandal]

I'm a completely different generation, and sure I'll keep it in mind😂

[gray anvil]

Sure, go nuts dude. You might figure out what you want to do after dabbling more

[primal sandal]

Okayy, thanks a lot!

[marsh wind]

Find the guy who said that and spit in his face. 😂

[gray anvil]

Hope you agree about the sunset bit tho

[marsh wind]

Sql is so far from dead. There might be better alternatives emerging, ie EdgeDB is a very interesting project. But I don't think RDMS will ever die

[marsh wind]

Why so? I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with thatt. But everyone who said that usually have different arguments.
P. S. Also I don't think industry /job wise there's a sunset for sql for another 5-10 yrs

[digital fjord]

Just because you aren't forced to use SQL doesn't mean SQL is a bad choice for a lot of databases.

[gray anvil]

I don't mean it's a bad choice, I just feel like it's a skill that will only be less in demand in the long run.

Which is the most pertinent aspect of "what should I learn whil I'm in high school to prep for my career"

That said, I think that's less true outside of NA and western Europe

[summer roost]

I wouldn't think SQL will be less in demand in the future... It's still the default way to interface with databases, and databases are still extremely important. What pressures do you see that you believe will make SQL less important over time?

[vapid jay]

literally all we use here is SQL

[keen minnow]

Finally got a job offer for data scientist after a year of learning python. ☺️

[gray anvil]

hmm, sql as a manipulation language, not going away. demand for sql backend engineers, less in the future as either using a cloud SQL service or a cloud managed instance becomes more and more common

but, I'm happy to be wrong about that

[fiery latch]

Congrats

[summer roost]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "sql backend engineers" - aren't they just regular backend engineers who use sql to read from and write to databases? Isn't that job the same regardless of whether the db is local or on the LAN or in the cloud?

If you mean that the DBA role might become more specialized, with a bigger gap between the backend engineers who read from and write to databases and the folks responsible for creating and tuning databases and defining their schemas, etc, that I could see. Increased specialization seems pretty believable

[gray anvil]

ah yeah, the latter. sorry for imprecise language

[swift veldt]

congrats

[spare tiger]

big pog

[vapid jay]

.topic

[marsh wind]

ok, got it now.Yeah I think what we meant while discussin was SQL itself, and interaction with RDBMS, understanding how to structure the db, queries, indexes etc.
the part with setting it up in bigger teams is already a job for devops/cloud engineer/whaterver you call it rather than dev

[gray anvil]

That's true! I'm on the other side of that coin so definitely had my blinkers on a little

[bold kraken]

guys! can anyone tell me What do college-educated programmers suck at?

[vapid jay]

https://internshala.com/summer-interns-2021?utm_source=eap_copylink&utm_medium=12559681

[bold kraken]

?

[wise roost]

Hi

[digital owl]

is an unsigned offer letter(no signature of the company) a red flag?

[pseudo plinth]

don't know, but I received a signed offer letter if that's any help

[marsh wind]

I would just ask them to be honest. can be a simple mistake on their end

[sharp loom]

Will programming... really fun...?? When it come to jobs

[marsh wind]

!rule 6 does not exactly allow to advertising this kind of things without a prior approval, even if free far as I can tell.

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[marsh wind]

@vapid flower

[vapid flower]

hello @marsh wind , Thanks for the info so I'm deleting the post

[marsh wind]

you can contact @severe widget if you have doubts/question for these kind of things @vapid flower

[valid chasm]

PDF or Word format recommended for uploading resume?

[near ocean]

I do pdf and if anyone requires a word document i just discard the application

[marsh wind]

I once replied politely that my CV in word does not exist, never heard back from them again

[swift veldt]

I'd recommend pdf, always, as depending on the computer on the other side it might mangle the formatting.

[idle thistle]

Do anyone have doubt about their career ???

I do web development , Just hit me up if you need anything

[sudden quartz]

whats your degree?

[sudden quartz]

I would certainly choose Java Basics and DSA. its the hardest course here and highest learning curve. Will help you the most.
SQL and Python is easy. an another note. SQL has no chance of dying anytime soon lol. Its a query language, for querying databases. SQL is to databases what a shovel is to dirt. That said, its the "least important" thing to learn about databases.

[neon moat]

congrats!

[primal sandal]

Okayy, thanks a lot!

[flint dagger]

hey so I would like to be a programer in informatic securite what do u recomand

( i'm french so....) mi otogrph is not the best X)

[thorny coral]

I am trying to get as much experience as I can to learn python, so I created a discord server where I code for people scripts for free but a lot of people are suspicious of the server since why would anyone code for free, I got 30 members which is good, but I don't see much room for expansion. Any ideas?

Basically people aren't joining and requesting scripts because they fear it is a scam, which is irrational since if its free, what's there to lose?

[craggy maple]

@thorny coral what's your server? I'd love to join you. Will help you expand with my friends who will definitely love to join

[agile crystal]

Does anyone know of any volunteer opportunities?

[pulsar drum]

Well, open source is volunteer work

[shadow moss]

Good skill in native written language

So if you are French, work on your French writing skills.

[fast totem]

This isn’t really a Python specific question, but does anyone here have experience applying to jobs on Indeed? I saw one that was posted just this morning, sent in my application via Indeed, and literally right after submitting saw that it’s status was immediately “Not selected”

Do some postings automatically reject you based on their robot scanning your resume? I can’t imagine someone actually looked at and evaluated it so quickly, and I’d imagine the posting would be closed if they really somehow already selected a candidate

[summer roost]

Yes, some places will automatically reject you based on their robot ("Applicant Tracking Software") scanning your resume

[fast totem]

Pretty lame they wouldn’t even say why. Oh well, their loss 💅🏼

[summer roost]

Other than making sure that you're resume doesn't confuse text extraction algorithms, there's not a ton you can do about it

Love your username, btw 😄

[fast totem]

I pasted it into a plain notepad text file and it looked fine there, so... I’d imagine that’s about as simple as it gets, indentation aside. Thanks!

[vapid jay]

Do you think python is a legit enough language to try and start a career with, without any college education?

@thorny coral I'd join, I kinda wanna see what all can be done though because my experience with programming is limited to modding

[summer roost]

that depends entirely on what other experience you have. If you have no relevant experience at all and are starting from scratch, it would probably be helpful to learn HTML, JS, and a backend language like Python or C#, and aim for a web developer job.

[tight fox]

what are the best universities in america that teach computer science and artificial intelligence?

[pastel quail]

carnegie mellon, stanford, and berkeley are considered the very best

[tight fox]

from this list I mean

[true harness]

they're all on there

[lucid vapor]

They asked which were the best on that list.

[tight fox]

what about MIT?

[true harness]

mit is probably 4th nationally

[true harness]

the ones mentioned are on the list, no?

[tight fox]

can you send the rankings link, I want to check the list so I can deside properly

[true harness]

you should not be deciding on rankings, decide by going there and seeing if you like the school

[tight fox]

I am not actually from America, I am from a nother country, but I am told to choose a college and mail them to have a direct admissions program, and the fees will be paid by out government.

our*

[true harness]

what country?

[tight fox]

Oman 🇴🇲

[sudden quartz]

these are all top universities. id go Tufts or MIT

[tight fox]

The problem that the rankings sites that I have seen does not focus on a specific field of study, for that reason I am asking

[pastel quail]

most of them have the option to sort by major/program

[sudden quartz]

oh i see. these are still all top schools. Got to California Tech and MIT are the popular top Cs schools here

[tight fox]

I looked at the QS ranking, it doesn't have a major/program filter

[pastel quail]

look at another one! there are a lot

[tight fox]

well I have seen that one but I didn't notice the filtera

should I depend on just that ranking or they all will be close in results

thanks for the help @pastel quail @true harness
@chrome hamlet
@sudden quartz

[harsh bone]

Hlo friends I want help regarding Python learning 🙁

[indigo willow]

I got you man

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[willow stump]

bro is this free

???

i mean from where should i start learning python

or is it like data camp

[hearty island]

yeah it's free

[willow stump]

which option should i choose to start

[hearty island]

try automate the boring stuff

[willow stump]

ok

[thick mist]

lo

[gray anvil]

If you want something more fundamental focused, learn python the hard way

[true harness]

in my opinion (and many others), that book is terrible. why learn something the hard way when you can learn it the easier way

[buoyant seal]

or as I prefer, learn it in a fun way.
the more it is fun, the better it is remembered/learned and e.t.c.
fun matters.

[true harness]

right, learn python the hard way is basically just following exactly what he tells you (and the author expressly asks for this), with no room for thinking or fun

[gray anvil]

Well, if you're gonna learn something on your own without a mentor, I'd pick something really structured, especially for those with no programming background

[vapid jay]

is PeoplePerHour any good?

please ping me upon reply

[shell orchid]

what do you suggest?

I learned the basics of python but have forgotten most of it cuz i didn't know what to do with it

[gray anvil]

Oh, i meant in relation to learn python the hard way

[spring void]

hi

[tall mauve]

Hello

[wanton remnant]

i Would second this advise .. its practical and gets to the meat ( the writing and coding ) pretty fast and is quite practical .. https://automatetheboringstuff.com/2e/chapter0/ go here .. have a headstart !

[snow thunder]

df

hi

[gentle night]

hi

[fiery latch]

Had my third interview for a data engineer job today. Spending time in all the programming discords, subreddits has helped so much.

Its in the hands of HR now though i guess

[ashen elk]

High Schooler here, did an unpaid internship at an A.I startup/A group's arm as school's work experience - and got a small reward as a thank you. The company apparently liked my work, and wants me to work again there. They sorta "hinted" it could be paid.

Assuming they don't actually pay me, Do you think I should try to get some sort of monetary benefit If I would work there again? or should I keep my trap shut and take it for the C.V?

[noble swan]

Hello, I would just like to know if who is better between visual studio and pycharm knowing that my computer is not very powerful

[peak halo]

if they "like your work", that suggests to me that you're generating value for them, and it would be immoral for them to take that from you without compensation. Though practically speaking, the experience sounds pretty valuable as leverage to get an internship early in your university/college career (and those are very likely to be paid), and if you're in high school you probably don't have very much leverage to ask for pay beyond just asking nicely.

[peak halo]

pycharm consumes more resources than visual studio code. If you have another question about that, try #editors-ides and not this channel.

[noble swan]

sorry i'm french and i don't know how to speak english so i wrote in a chanel which is not the right one

[ashen elk]

if you're in high school you probably don't have very much leverage to ask for pay beyond just asking nicely.
True that. Well, we will see what happens. thanx!

[lapis lantern]

Bello,
I am done with the python basics but now I'm confused
what to do ????

[sudden quartz]

lol, try asking in #python-discussion i guess

[lapis lantern]

no one responded there 😑

[sudden quartz]

because its a dumb question. What did you learn Python for? A programming language is a tool to accomplish a task with the computer. You learn the language now build whatever with your engineering ability. Try building something with its avaliable libraires

go on data sturcture sites and do all the questions

[lapis lantern]

cool

[marsh wind]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[marsh wind]

@lapis lantern check this out if you are not sure what kind of project to try yourself on

[lapis lantern]

will do Sir

[leaden jasper]

@sudden quartzLet's be more welcoming and not say that questions are dumb. If you don't have an appropriate and nice answer, don't feel obligated to answer.

[coarse folio]

wsp bae

[ruby remnant]

is it worth learning web development, since nowadays there are drag and drop editors

[gusty carbon]

yes very

[ruby remnant]

I honestly disagree deep down

[gusty carbon]

why?

[ruby remnant]

takes a lot of effort and time in order to get good at it enough to get a job in the field

the syntax is simple and straightforward

[tender saddle]

even if you're using a drag and drop editor you should know what the code it's outputting does and be able to edit it to do what the drag and drop editor can't

[uncut siren]

what are prerequistite to get into Cyber Security

[summer roost]

Being extremely good at some niche. Or preferably several.

[faint saddle]

Which should be learnt first Web dev or data science?

[hexed moon]

Ah? What do you plan to use

[junior ibex]

I am new in Python. I want to be pro... can anyone guide me ???

[ruby remnant]

good point, it's not that hard to master backend than frontend, i.e. php and databases are more simple than learning all the ways to create a nav bar, (ul, ol, div, you know the drill)

[hot glade]

if i need help to do a ct test can somebody help me?

[cobalt viper]

hi

[cobalt viper]

me also

[buoyant seal]

@junior ibex start with https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/introducing-python-2nd/9781492051374/
it is ideal for starters

[hot hull]

How useful would the combo of python, ppc (digital marketing) and ux/ui skills be in the job market?

I'm in ppc and I'm learning python as it's fun and I find ux/ui interesting and would like to explore this further, just not sure if it's the best use of my time?

[brave dome]

Does getting a BA over a BS in computer science make it harder to find a job? I'm a fan of writing and computer science so i was thinking of getting a BA in cs with a minor in writing or maybe even double majoring if possible

[hot yarrow]

Depends on where you want to go. A good portion about 50% of jobs don't care if you have a degree. Jobs that do care, most of the time, only care that you have any 4 year degree. The specific time having a cs will matter is when the job absolutely wants one. Which is getting more and more rare. My personal opinion is to get what you are interested in, because after landing your first real job programming, no one really cares what your degree is in.

[sudden quartz]

Thats not at all what they asked

[hot yarrow]

???

[sudden quartz]

No it does not.

[brave dome]

I appreciate both answers lmao thanks, I was just a bit afraid I might be seen as lazy or something since I went for the BA over the BS but I suppose as long as I don’t say “because the BA was easier” then it won’t matter

[sudden quartz]

In fact as CS is a multidisciplinary field sometimes going for a BA and double majoring is a plus. You would be looked at well by people who do NLP. BA's are definently looked at as being easier but im sure 99% of employees wouldnt care even if it actually was. Double majors are always looked at well by the way. I know someone doing what youre doing.

In fact if I had the luxury I mightve done the same

[brave dome]

Yeah I’m a big fan of writing and apparently pretty good at it according to most of my English teachers, and the film industry and such sort of fascinates me so I was thinking of pursuing the technical side of that maybe

[sudden quartz]

Because of how broad CS is, BAs actually help you specialize more than a BS too. Most people do CS for the jobs but for example theory of computation is the most useless class. No research being done in it, no jobs with it, lol

[spark tapir]

yes it's still worth it. If it wasn't, then there wouldn't be a lot of jobs (which are also high-paying). That isn't the case and you can go on popular job-sites to prove that

[ashen elk]

The intersection of vastly different fields is where most innovation happens. Quite a long time ago, you would never think a "programmer/electric guy" would be interested in Bio - but now it's one of the major emerging fields.
The same story is playing out in A.I, Neuroscience, etc. Companies like NeuraLink, people like Steve Jobs are pretty shining standards for this.
Just do what you love - you never know when some company arises that does exactly what you like and you would have the opportunity to contribute to something greater!

[sudden quartz]

I mean, we know. English + CS = Natural Language Processing. CS is the most interdisciplinary field.

Not that that is what he wants to do. He seems more interested in the technical side of movies etc. and that would be like virtual reality, graphics, computer vision area

[ashen elk]

That's literally my point - it's not specific to C.S, it's just that you can mix any two fields and innovate much faster and better. It doesn't matter if he is interested in English and film industry.
Also, NLP has nothing to do with english so your first assumption is completely wrong.

CS is the most interdisciplinary field.
Pretty subjective, I personally do not think this at all

[sudden quartz]

Well thats wrong by product of linguistics, and definition of NLP. Its english related no matter the kind of work youre actually doing. And there is a limit to subjectivity. CS is the most interdisciplinary field, you can think its chemistry or some dumb thing whatever, not my issue

but i prefer people to have accurate, well based info

[ashen elk]

As much as we all like having the whole discord server conversing with redmagic over dumb controversial and heavily misinformed stuff, I can't argue with you coz I don't wanna get banned. I recommend you go to twitter because I have a feel that you would like it very much. Adios

[faint saddle]

Data science

[leaden jasper]

It's not just english, but any natural language. What experience do you have with NLP and studying it?

[sudden quartz]

when you have to edit in "heavily misinformed" because your brain didnt recognize it as so the first time

[leaden jasper]

You seem to be spouting a lot of things as objective fact without really providing context and what perspective you're coming from.

[sudden quartz]

"Its not just English" pretty much supports my point alone. Apparently linguistics and English havve no relation

[leaden jasper]

Linguistics is separate from, say, formal essay writing. English is not the only language. I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

[leaden jasper]

There's no need to be rude and insulting. If there's a problem, go to @severe widget.

[sudden quartz]

And I dont understand yours.
"NLP is an english + CS subdiscipline" and my point is made

[leaden jasper]

But... that's not correct. It's linguistics with CS. Linguistics != English.

[sudden quartz]

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=803972

[leaden jasper]

@sudden quartzEither way, when giving advice, it is recommended to provide what perspective you're coming from rather than framing your opinion as ground truth. It's not clear how much work you do with NLP, what your experience is in the industry or academia, and what that perspective provides.

[leaden jasper]

That's... a forum thread. From 12 years ago apparently. It also supports my point.

[sudden quartz]

your point is a minuscule nitpick not worth the effort of making, one of the main things applied NLP can do things like create English texts, thus field relevance

[leaden jasper]

It's not a minuscule nitpick. It's relevant and correcting wrong information. You also haven't stated what your perspective or experience is. If you can't follow these channel guidelines, then you should stop participating.

[ashen elk]

cool, no worries. tbh, I am suprised action hasn't been taken already against them - there have been many instances where we have dealt with him posting controversial topics and not following general guidelines. I can literally ping 10 people right now who can back me up as to what kind of convo he encourages

[leaden jasper]

!ban 830129239343759401 Coming into this server to advertise some crypto thing is not at all appropriate.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @restive basin permanently.

[vapid jay]

haha

Wait y out can't talk about crypto

[near ocean]

Not here, this is for careers related discussion

[vapid jay]

Autocorrect really messed up my messages

Well crypto can be used as a career

[leaden jasper]

The person was just advertising some new cryptocoin. Not an actual conversation about the validity of crypto or how it might be a career.

[vapid jay]

Oh

[leaden jasper]

Conversation about crypto and how it relates to a career and python are totally valid discussions.

[severe dagger]

Can Python be used in quantum computing?

And best ide's

[summer roost]

what do you mean when you say "used in quantum computing"?

if you mean "can a quantum computer execute Python code", then no.

[severe dagger]

Okay

[severe dagger]

?

[summer roost]

quantum computers work fundamentally differently than classical computers. You can't execute code written in any regular programming language on a quantum computer.

[severe dagger]

Do they have different programming language?

[pastel quail]

that's a question better suited for #editors-ides

[summer roost]

they're not yet at a level where it makes sense to have programming languages at all, as I understand.

we're still at the level of figuring out how to build one - at a level that's more comparable to logic gates in classical computers, or something like that.

[digital fjord]

there are some languages, but they more proof of concept than actually useful. There is Q# for example

[severe dagger]

Thank you guys 👍

[ashen elk]

You can technically execute python code - just not directly. libs like cirq and qisket do help in the conversion, and they use python since it's impler

[vast tapir]

What python expertise is the easiest to get a job with? Backend stuff maybe?

[swift veldt]

As always, it depends on you. What you are most comfortable with, which region you're living in, and thus which job market you're exposed to.

[mental mountain]

Hey all, looking for some career advice from more experienced engineers than myself. Here’s my situation in a nutshell:

I work as an Analyst on a semi-technical team, but in my day-to-day I’m essentially a python programmer. I told my boss I want to move internally to an Engineering team so I can develop into a better engineer (I’m one of the top developers on our team, even though I’m only 1 year into my career). He said he’s prepared to do what it takes to retain me and get me the experience I want.

How can I develop into a better engineer in lieu of working on an Engineering team? What resources can my boss provide to aid me with this? I already study a lot in my spare time (textbooks, online etc).

[orchid ivy]

honestly, i don't think there's any better way to get better than to get your hands dirty and do the work. you need to work on technical projects to get better at your craft. and that might mean working with the engineering team. is it possible to be loan-staffed onto a project?

[orchid ivy]

i'm not sure about easy. do you mean jobs that are in high demand that require you to work in python?

[vast tapir]

Yes high in demand. I'm fairly comfortable with python for whatever I've used it for, math, data science, serial connections, GUIs, live plotting with threading, webpages, etc, but I know there's always more to do with it

[mental mountain]

Hey Gilly. Appreciate you taking the time to respond. I do get to work on technical projects now, but I feel that everything is too self guided, and I’m missing out on learning from others as I would on an engineering team.

I like the idea of being loan staffed, I’ll bring it up. Thank you!

[orchid ivy]

if you really want to become a python developer, then just apply for those jobs. but if you're interested in other routes, you can look into data analyst positions as well as data science, and ML jobs.

[vast tapir]

Yes I'm just curious what is most in demand usually

[orchid ivy]

no problem! also try to network with other engineers by joining affinity networks within your firm or not-for-profit organizations. 🙂

[orchid ivy]

data analyst and data science are in demand right now (at least for the US)

[vast tapir]

OK thx. I just see usually hundreds of applicants for those jobs

[mental mountain]

What do you think about requesting a professional development, boot camp kind of thing? Would that be worth doing?

[orchid ivy]

it's in high demand and also competitive. lol

[vast tapir]

Yeah I'm trying to find higher in demand and lower in competition, thus easier to obtain. But maybe that's hard to find

[orchid ivy]

like from a third party? or like an event/series to be facilitated by you and/or other employees?

[mental mountain]

Third-party

[orchid ivy]

only if you find it beneficial. i find these approaches to be beginner-friendly, so they're more on the tutorial-side and less hands-on.

[mental mountain]

Yeah I’m definitely more “intermediate”, so maybe not worth it. Thanks again!

[orchid ivy]

although this approach seems logical, your chances of getting a job (especially one that you'll like) this way are slim. i would suggest attending networking events and being active in communities/organizations like this one. i can't guarantee someone will hand you a job in this fashion, but you'll find more opportunities and build connections that may eventually land you a job.

[orchid ivy]

no problem! 🙂

[vast tapir]

OK thx

[drowsy cliff]

so where are these other channels where one may network for gigs --
asked a starving python

[orchid ivy]

Here's a list of other popular discord servers:
• The Programming Hangout
• The Programming Server
• Planet: Code
• CS 50
• The Coding Den
• Python
• CP Community
• #100DaysOfCode
• Towards Data Science
• Data Science
• CS DojoProjects/tutorials
• Tech with Tim
• /r/LearnMachineLearning
• Fundamentals of ML
• Artificial Intelligence Community
• TensorFlow
• Learn AI Together

[mortal wedge]

Nice, I'd love to learn more about machine learning. Too lazy and busy, though

[last turtle]

one I'm part of is Simplify Code

[buoyant seal]

if you did not read, Hitchhiker's guide to Python is the best in my opinion, to get knowledge about all existing different things in Python and to get understanding where to move next

also, if you education would be somehow related to web back end, perhaps this chart would be useful

if you are more or less new to real programming
perhaps better to start from fundamentals though
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/introducing-python-2nd/9781492051374/

with reading especially thorough about functions, classes, data structures, decorators

I was reading carefully all chapters, just in case to not miss some important detail

even smallest details matter

[buoyant seal]

awesome

[buoyant seal]

I like this book because it was friendly and short

200 pages for all begining stuff of chapter 1
and 200 pages for all the advanced stuff in chapter 2

[mental mountain]

Awesome, thank you sir, much appreciated

[arctic obsidian]

hey um

i need some advice regarding the degree which i am currently pursuing. so the degree which i am pursuing is BCA (Bachelord Of Computer Application), i decided to pursue this degree as i didn't get sufficient marks in my high school to quialify for a B. Tech degree, but now it seems that the most high end jobs and good companies prefer applicants with a B. tech degree compared to the ones with the BCA degree. I am already 1.5 semesters into my course and am sure can pass out with reasonably good marks, but should I or should I not stick with it and just leave it altogether and pursue a B.Tech degree from a private college. (I wasn't able to afford this before, now i feel like I can take a loan or something if it pays me back in years to come) please do @ me if you have valuable advice regarding this, thank you very much, facing bit of an existential episode to be honest.

[summer roost]

What country is this in?

[arctic obsidian]

India

[arctic obsidian]

its fine nvm thanks

[warm sun]

@arctic obsidian Hi, I am from India as well who has, god knows how, completed a B.Tech degree in Computer engineering from Mumbai University. The companies do mentione the requirement of B. Tech degrees in their JDs but at the same time I myself have noticed in several coding competitions that people pursuing BCA/BSC were far better than the ones pursuing B.Tech when it came to practical knowledge. But the main issue of the matter here is the label that companies seem to be so hung up on that is B.Tech.

Even if their JDs say that they want B.Tech, don't worry about it. focus on the projects you are building and putting up on your resume. Now of course these projects should actually be something you have actively worked and not just something you read up on online. and send your CV regardless to these companies. There is always a chance that the companies prefer the skill set rather than the degree in the resume

[arctic obsidian]

thanks a lot@warm sun

[dry oriole]

anybody help me ?

i am doing a course from coursera and i stuck at one assignment. i found it's solution but i couldnot get it. so please anyone help me to commplete that assignment..

[heady cove]

Any good course for DSA in python?

[white adder]

Anybody interested in startup

Pls message me

[marsh wind]

!rule 6 I beleive does not exactly allow what are you trting to do I believe

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[round roost]

what is the minus in python?? I tried the "-" but it not work

[sly furnace]

this is not a help channel

heya so i am 15 and and needed help in making my resume for upwork

[chrome barn]

I just use a word template, but try this out! https://googlecerts.biginterview.com/

[coarse seal]

hey

whats this channel used for?

is anyone there?

[hollow thorn]

simply used for discussion

[orchid ivy]

career discussion so questions about the industry, career advice, etc.

[tidal cloak]

Hey guys.
I’m 13years old, and I live in the US. I’m currently in 8th grade, and i’m starting to build a college portfolio. I want to have all sorts of projects on my portfolio, but i’m not really interested in becoming a developer. I want to work more on the corporate or communications side of the tech world, but would like to show my advanced understandings of software development without building a portfolio for a computer science degree. Any ideas of projects i can work on or any other advice?

Also, please ping me on any answers or i won’t see it… I have this muted.

[ashen elk]

and i’m starting to build a college portfolio
You mean a portfolio for jobs? because in US college admissions are too dependent on SAT results + extra-curriculars + acheivements than your portfolio.

[orchid ivy]

a college portfolio should tell a story about you and why you make a great candidate for the college/university that you're applying to. i agree with @ashen elk. here in the US, we're not looking for high school students that have completed ambitious projects. we want to see what you're involved in regarding extracurricular activities, community service, sports, and if possible internships. especially if you're interested in communications, you need to exhibit that you're a team player.

[tidal cloak]

yeah, but I'm still trying to build up projects I can show people...

[ashen elk]

you mean for internships?

[tidal cloak]

Thanks so much! So community service, and extracurricular is checked. Not that good at sports. but how can I find internships?

[ashen elk]

achievements. affiliation with organizations like NASA and UN would get you to the moon

[tidal cloak]

wdym?

[fallen gulch]

Where do you guys store your profile, or a portfolio, if you have one?

[orchid ivy]

i wouldn't be too worried about internships. these are rare for high schoolers, but keep an eye out for "early starter" programs that companies host usually during the summer for high school students. stick to your interests and what you're passionate about 🙂

[ashen elk]

your achievements can over bear the brunt of showing how good a candidate you are.

[tidal cloak]

I'm gonna be in High School next year tho...

[tidal cloak]

Thanks.

[ashen elk]

yeah, internships in general are rare, but not impossible or anything. you can still aim for an internship in a place you like.

[vapid jay]

@fallen gulch On github

[tidal cloak]

Awesome, thanks. Have any of you guys done internships? If yes, where?

[ashen elk]

but not anything like google or Apple, but startups that are doing exactly what you have expertise in would help you a ton.

[orchid ivy]

that's why you can look into them now to get an idea of what programs are out there. that way, you can apply for the programs you're eligible for when the time comes.

[ashen elk]

While biggies require to be above 18 for an internship

[tidal cloak]

Where do you guys recommend I look for internships?

[ashen elk]

anywhere you think is particularly interesting and has a reasonable chance of taking you.
I myself am a high schooler, so take my advice with a grain of salt

[fallen gulch]

Thanks, I was thinking of a personal website, but github isn't too shabby.

[tidal cloak]

Yeah, I mean like are there websites that people post internship availibilities?

[vapid jay]

@fallen gulch It's a great way to show that you code.

[ashen elk]

yeah, I think some people recommend Chegg, indeed etc. to find internships.
I personally couldn't use those sites because 99.9% require you to be in college

[tidal cloak]

k thanks so much everyone!

[fallen gulch]

It might give people an impression of vagueness though. It's like trying to find a candidate on a forum. Not that it's a bad idea.. just saying.

[orchid ivy]

although you may not be eligible for internships, the bigger corps tend to have early starter/leadership/summer programs that high school students are eligible for.

[vapid jay]

I suppose it all deals with what all is in your github. Literally my github (granted, this was Google Code and svn fun back then, but I digress) is why I got my first job.

Lo and behold, what pushed them over the edge was the fact that I maintained... A changelog.

[ashen elk]

they do? I couldn't find any in Google

if you could link some, It would be really fantastic!!'

[fallen gulch]

Good good.

[orchid ivy]

although Google may not have any of their own internships listed, they usually partner with/sponsor other universities/organizations to host such programs.

[fallen gulch]

Is it somehow similar to the "audit log" on Discord? or more detailed

[ashen elk]

https://tenor.com/view/do-you-have-any-idea-how-little-that-narrows-it-down-that-narrows-it-down-clear-now-its-clear-now-i-understand-now-gif-21256627
@orchid ivy

any past such partnerships then? cuz this is the first time I have ever heard that this happens

[vapid jay]

@fallen gulch It just a brief summary of what changes from version to version

[orchid ivy]

just to name a few:
https://prepmaven.com/blog/preparing/nyu-summer-programs/
https://cooper.edu/engineering/summer-stem
i never said it was easy. XD these programs are competitive. they don't just hand out admissions. you have to find these opportunities.

[fallen gulch]

so, a history .

[ashen elk]

Cost: $1585 per three-week session
oh yeah, did I forgot to add that I am a millionaire?

anyways, it seems like it's hosted by colleges 🤔 I will dig around for opportunities in my country.

[orchid ivy]

they typically are. and some give scholarships.

[ashen elk]

Alright, Thanx a ton gilly! 🚀

[orchid ivy]

np! good luck in your search ^^

[sullen quartz]

is anyone there who is a freelancer pls dm me

[vapid jay]

hi everyone

[vapid jay]

Hi can someone give me some insight about creating a CS club?

[lone ridge]

Hey guys, Im an amature python enthusiast, what can I do to get some practice on it?
Please give me some suggestions

[manic sand]

hi all! I was decent in python but it's been ages, I'd like to get back into it for side-income purposes. What's a hot field to get into specifically with good availability of remote work opportunities, and that I can get into without the need of certificates and the like? webdev, ML, other?

[vapid jay]

@lone ridge you mean syntax or knowledge of the library/tools?

[lone ridge]

Both if possible, I just finished my course, and I want to get better at it!

[vapid jay]

@lone ridge I'd recommend small projects, something that will be challenging for you. I can't give an example since i'm not sure how much you know

[lone ridge]

I'm just starting out, what did you do when you started learning python?

I'm new to programming in general

[dense mesa]

@lone ridge this channel is for career discussion, I would recommend #python-discussion and !resources

[vapid jay]

@lone ridge i'm not a professional myself, so i'll be careful how I answer. But I do know even a professional isn't expected to know every API off by heart. So once you are comfortable with the syntax, you learn to find what you need as you need it

[lone ridge]

Thankyou for your help

[manic sand]

or in other words, what would be really decent libraries/frameworks to learn/focus on if i'm seeking to hit the ground running with side income asap

[versed hatch]

I got a sql/Python timed hackerrank test - can I google anything to help me figure it out? (not trying to find the answer and copy/paste it)

[hardy leaf]

hey i just want to discuss my life. Can anyone help

[rose solstice]

hmmm

Im 15 and i recently took on a free course on Python, right now I have just like learned the very basic of python and stuff.
Everytime If i go anything beyond basic me keeps on failing, like I tried making games in Pygame back when i was 12 but never really like succeeded, so like now me is afraid of doing simple free lancing jobs or doing any complex or long or detailed project generally speaking

Rn I am in school but I am trying to be a mechatronics engineering, but cuz of the free time Im learning python. I just wanna know how to do it and if it will be worth my time and effort overall in the future if there is

( In simple words, should I go in depth in python, and if i should , which category should i specialize in, like web dev or AI or Machine learning or networking or game dev, really need help )

[vapid jay]

Do you think sysadmin will vanish and be replaced by Software Engineers? Is it the time for a career change^

[marsh wind]

For sure not by software Engineer. By devops and/or cloud engineers, possibly since a lot of companies move away from on premise bare metal to some kind of cloud solution snd etc

[waxen aspen]

Hi everyone, woudl this be a place to talk about a decison i need to make by tmrw morning. I have to decide if I am going to move forward with my CS masters degree or if I am making the switch to a MS in Data Science.

[fiery latch]

What makes you happy?

[waxen aspen]

Being successful lol. I origanlly applied for DS but my school made me take the bridge classes for the CS program. I originally was intimidated of code and comforatable with math but I found myself enjoying coding more than math. With that said I know DS isnt just all math no coding. I think there is a fair amount of coding with just knowlege of math concepts.

[fiery latch]

You have a similar issue to one I've had. By the time i finished my chemistry PhD i prefered coding over chemistry. Now I'm applying for coding jobs rather than chemistry ones because i think i would be happier doing the work on a daily basis.

[waxen aspen]

congrats on the PhD

Dr.Deemo 🙂

I also dont know how much math vs coding a data scientist does lol

[fiery latch]

I think it depends. But you're unlikely to cut yourself off from a dara science job by going the CS route

[waxen aspen]

exactly

CS would be broad and let me pivot, but if i end up in a data role i would probably wish i had done data sciecne masters

[fiery latch]

I know people without data science degrees who are now data scientists. And you can still study data science, watch data science talks, attend conferences (post-covid), enter kaggle competitions while your do your CS masters.

Or alternatively you could still study CS while doing a DS masters. They are two paths to the same goal. You'll just have different, but equally useful tools from each.

[waxen aspen]

fair, yeah both those seem logical. My DS degree will be mostly in python while the CS has done python but next we are supposed to do a java class

[fiery latch]

More concisely, what im trying to say is: there isnt a wrong choice for you here. You arent going to mess up your future.

[marsh wind]

Lol how familiar

[waxen aspen]

I know that i will have a future in either I just have to decide on stuff now and its hard without knowing

I know in like 5 years i could tell myself now what to do haha

=/

[ashen elk]

Most data scientists don't even know their basics or the foundational math tho - and well, you can find many discord servers filled with those type of people

[waxen aspen]

Yeah am should look for some DS discords, if i get the degree i will have the foundatonal math but maybe your point is that you dont NEED to know the math?

[ashen elk]

you don't need to know a lot of things to accomplish anything really, it's just a matter of choice. either you can accept that you don't know the basics and would have to ask someone to help you out, or get the basics and foundations done then move on

[waxen aspen]

haha well I think I would want to know basics in order to get a job but at the same time it seems like everyone just works on teams ?

[ashen elk]

A lot of people here do not want to learn the basic + math behind it and it's totally fine. but if you want to rise above the average, a good understanding of foundations would do you wonders.
That is not to say you can't have great ideas; you might have some pretty incredible ideas just that you won't be able to implement them yourself and would struggle a lot.

[waxen aspen]

makes sense. so are you in the camp do CS degree with data classes or do the DS degree and take CS electives? 🙂

@ashen elk

[ashen elk]

personally, I won't care whatever a candidate has done as long as his projects and expertise through achievements are pretty visible for me.
if you do not have that much expertise or achievements, then you fall back on the degree.
but I am pretty young tho, so you can get a 3rd opinion on this

[waxen aspen]

My school has a built in internship program where i will work before i even graduate. They are helping us slowly build a portfolio and stuff

Being young is fine aslong as you are current. its possible you are younger than me haha im 28

[umbral carbon]

hello guys

[waxen aspen]

hi

[umbral carbon]

please, can you help me?

[rose solstice]

Rn I am in school, cuz of the free time Im learning python. I just wanna know how to do it and if it will be worth my time and effort overall in the future if there is
( In simple words, should I go in depth in python, and if i should , which category should i specialize in, like web dev or AI or Machine learning or networking or game dev, really need help )
Note : I am aiming to go in mechatronics engineering.

just need a lil advice

[waxen aspen]

@rose solstice I dont have the answer for you, but what I do know is that you need to know what you want to specialize in. If you scroll up i am in a similar situation

[rose solstice]

@waxen aspen I love making games but then again, python and games not a good thing if you wanna go 3D, i love AI but then if you just tell a a pixel to move right and left countinusly thats also a AI, I would love machine learning cuz just the very idea of seeing how a computer would react to a put situation and how it would develop amazes me but its hard af, then comes web development which is in demand and gives money, WHO TF does not want money, but its boring so yea

[waxen aspen]

@rose solstice I feel like no matter where you are in the cmputer field you will mak emoney, so best to do somehting not boring but if Web dev is significantly higher then yeah that would make sense

[rose solstice]

@waxen aspen I mean you also have to see what is important and wanted, for me I live in a 3rd world country Pakistan, over here the only thing coding CAN be used for is making website or servers. There is no concept of AI or Machine learning here cuz we are that back in the world of tec, so at the end I WILL have to compromise to my society if I wanna make a living, so boring or not I keep on running out of options

[waxen aspen]

Your perspective makes sense and somehting i was not considering. Depending how old you are maybe it will be different in the fiture when you care going to get a job?

[rose solstice]

Im 15 right now, 16 in nov, but if we are talking about the future, what are the chances the some new Language pops up or a existing language gets a update or something that makes it hot in the market, Im taking chances everywhere and so well is the whole world

Im starting rn cuz I knowing how my parents and people are I wont have time to do thing I like which is coding, so before that I wanna learn something and make some money to prove my parents so they can change their mindset

[waxen aspen]

hell yeah! thats awesome attitude.

i wish i knew what i wanted at your age

[vapid jay]

there is a big difference between learning to program and learning a language, once you know how to code learning a new language isn't a big deal

[rose solstice]

Okay so lets put learning aside for a second,

WHAT should i specialize in

[vapid jay]

I would go for what you enjoy, especially at first. Don't overthink the whole future proof thing. Networking and Databases are good examples. Even network pen tester is a career

[waxen aspen]

What if you dont know what you enjoy

[vapid jay]

that's why you have to keep an open mind 😉

[waxen aspen]

My situation is I think i like data sceicne but i dont know

[vapid jay]

knowing more about data science isn't going to hurt, don't fear it will be time wasted or something. Infact data science will be relevant to everything anyway

[rose solstice]

@waxen aspen would you do data science for 10 hours and be frusturated or coding for 10 hours and be frusturated, would you be happy if you completed a 1 year project in data science or more happy if you completed a 1 year project in coding

[true harness]

i don't think anyone would be able to do anything 10 hours straight

[waxen aspen]

@vapid jay i depends on the project.

[rose solstice]

umm okay what got you in data science and what got you in coding ?

[vapid jay]

normie?

[near ocean]

normal, you mean

If youre working for 10h straight youre either in:
A. A slave camp
B. A slave camp

[waxen aspen]

so my situation is I have some bridghe classes for my masters program done and i need to decide if I wanna do the DS or CS program. I thought i wanted to do DS from the start but i was intimidated by coding. I found that I love coding and the math is hard but its fun. I just don;t know if i love data science becuase I rly just have a conceptrual math and coding knowlege of python. (they said they condensed a full year of python undergrad into a semester). My concern is i can do CS and then learn the DS later, i can also do a minor in DS. Not that it matters but I am going to a pretty decent school.

[true harness]

the hard part of data science isn't going to be the programming. rather the math involved

[waxen aspen]

so would it be smart to pay the school to teach me the math? I have some CS friends who are just like " once you know the DS librarys you will be fine, you dont need the degree"

[rose solstice]

okay if you are that confused here is a option, I live in a world where I believe a degree is just a qualification on how much one can do in a piece of paper we call exam

So a degree does not matter to me, my capabilities in a certain specific field and how much I can do something is what matters to me.

Remember coding does not require you to have a degree, you want a job in coding, no one will ask you WHICH SCHOOL OR COLLEGE YOU WENT TO LEARN CODING, they will ask for experience but in CS yes you need a degree thats how this world works, CODING is not going anywhere, its only gonna get simpler and easier in the future, so do your CS first if you believe its important, a DS programe can be done online on website like Coursera and you will get a certificate from one of the top 20 unis of the world, dont stress yourself out

[vapid jay]

@waxen aspen if you don't have a precise job in mind that absolutely requires DS, then CS sounds like the "safer bet". But either is going to get you a career

[waxen aspen]

Do we know which one is more "valuable" or is that super subjective ?

[vapid jay]

in terms of income, I would bet DS. but be careful what you trade for income

[waxen aspen]

i mean by gut tells me ill like ds but i was jw. i personally belive doing what you want is better.

for the life i wanna live i dont need to be in the top 1%

[vapid jay]

my aunt is a director of nursing, and she was getting another degree in her 40s. It won't be your only chance to ever work in DS

[rose solstice]

Here papaG, DS took the spotlight in 2015 in only one year, CS took from 19s to get the spotlight, DS gives versatility and requires knowledge from other fields, and one thing I tell you know, what is written in ones fate will happen, if its written you will earn a certain amount so if you go for CS or DS either way you will earn that much

[waxen aspen]

makes sense

[rose solstice]

thats how fate works you cant fight it you can only bend it, so might as well do what you enjoy, you dont wanna be the depresso that crys and says I learned everything just to earn money and I dont enjoy it

[vapid jay]

but I think he enjoys both at least

[rose solstice]

Do what you enjoy, nothing to be afraid of, people are there in DS , there is a good community, you are not alone, but your gutt and heart in the front, which one comes first, dont care about worldly things like money, ask this what would I enjoy if money was not a thing in this world. If you got your answer

[waxen aspen]

I dont know what I enjoy. haha

[rose solstice]

okay, watch a video on DS and CS on youtube rn, and analyse yourself, in which video you were more in to, what exited you more, what was more fun

[waxen aspen]

I have to make sure i find 1 of each that seems good. The thign is there are so many rabit holes to go down in CS and DS as a career!

[rose solstice]

if we start talking about rabit holes, remember there is no career in this human world that does not have them, ever computer field has them, every art field has them, ever commerce has them, ever trade one has them

dont see the cons, dont see the pros, see what you want, the only way that is to first get started in both and then you will know yourself

[waxen aspen]

The other thing is for some reason I think a CS undergrad goes and gets a DS masters. A CS masters is for new CS ppl or who wanna do research or theoretical shit. With that being said I could conclude a DS Masters is more “legit?”

[rose solstice]

DS does use elements of CS cuz at the core many things are similar so kinda both are legit

[waxen aspen]

right but there are fewer data sceicne undergrad degrees

mostly CS

[rose solstice]

True DS is new so yea plus DS has much much much space to develop so DS is more future proof cuz it found after CS, so if time makes a sense here, so DS is safer than CS

[waxen aspen]

I coould be wrong tho

o, probably a non-CS STEM grad gets a DS masters. CS masters is definitely more legit the question is do you need all of that - from my friend

[rose solstice]

I mean the easiest way to get out of this paradox or something, I would just suggest you to consult a teacher that teaches both CS and DS equally, and ask them what should you do. Their word would be the most effective here

[waxen aspen]

they told me if i dont knwo what i wanna do then do CS

[rose solstice]

your choice now, no matter what and who says its your life and decision, do what the gut tells, do what you wanna do not what has been imposed on you

Just saying this, cuz when you get elder, as a human, i dont want a brother to be thinking that CUZ THAT PERSON TOLD ME TO DO IT AND NOW I AM IN PAIN AND SUFFER, i dont want you to curse anyone or bad mouth anyone. So do what you want to do, dont be afraid of failure its a part of life and its what makes you mature and helps you find answers so yea

[orchid ivy]

if data science is what makes you happy, then get the specialization in data science. there really is no benefit in getting a masters in CS if you already have a BS or BA in comp sci.

[orchid ivy]

also, companies will pay you more if you have the masters in data science.

[waxen aspen]

@orchid ivy you arent from RI by chance are you? I did undergrad in Psychology

[orchid ivy]

lol, i am from the east coast, but not rhode island. lol

[waxen aspen]

I have a kid who went to my hs who goes by gilly on xbox, he is in the CS field

[orchid ivy]

i'm also a she. xD

[waxen aspen]

well he could have became a girl lol, its 2021

all my CS friends dont seem to think DS will get more money, they think CS will

[orchid ivy]

imo, you learn more in CS. DS is very specialized and in high demand, but still compensates.

[waxen aspen]

I am not worried baout money because i think ill be fine either way.

How do you feel about the marterial i could self learn if i went CS or DS? Like I could go CS and self learn DS stuff if i really want?

[orchid ivy]

if you're very comfortable in math (calculus, statistics, etc.), then self-learning for DS shouldn't be a problem.

but i think, in general, it's easy to learn CS on your own.

[waxen aspen]

my gut says CS can be learned on your own

I think paying to be taugh math is good, my school also does co op so ideally ill get a job right where i want out the gate

[orchid ivy]

not only that, you're paying for access to tools that may not be accessible to the average person and a network of professionals 👀

[waxen aspen]

like what? I havent considered this before

[true harness]

matlab

[waxen aspen]

hmmm

[orchid ivy]

matlab, tableau, any data extraction tools (like at an enterprise level)

[ocean ledge]

lol no we don't, often it's not even considered in many companies

[orchid ivy]

D; who tricked you

[ocean ledge]

as in, hiring managers don't usually look at masters in ds in any light better than a bs in any stem field

[orchid ivy]

if this is the case, you're getting (for lack of a better term) low-balled. 😦

[ocean ledge]

are we? a masters in ds doesn't really bring much to the table, unless we're only hiring entry-level data analysts

[orchid ivy]

yes. assuming you have a minimum of 2 yrs experience under your belt, you should easily be over 6 figures. otherwise if you have no experience/fresh graduate with no projects to demonstrate your work, then yeah you'd be compared to a bs in comp sci.

[ocean ledge]

the key word is the experience-- no one cares about your degree (rightfully so, a masters in ds is effectively useless since the curriculum is so basic it borders bootcampish), but an experienced data scientist should be able to command at least a basic salary

[orchid ivy]

well, the point of getting a masters degree is to network...you don't get a masters right after finishing your undergrad o.e

[ocean ledge]

pay in traditional software engineering and data science rolls are incredibly comparable... entry-level ds roles might actually have an edge, but once you're at a mid-senior level and above it's all about the same

[orchid ivy]

yes and no. some jobs will list a masters or phd in data or 'related field' as a requirement

[waxen aspen]

@ocean ledge @orchid ivy so for my program they do the co-op so I can learn about the field and then practice and study more before going back into the field. I weoudl say either program is not boot campish. total completion time with the internship considered is almost 3 years.

my original concern is that I think i wanna do DS but I did enjoy coding alot more my first semester of the bridge work i did. I can do a CS Masters with a Focus on AI and Data Science - thats whats they are calling it. I could also just do the Data Science Masters.

[ocean ledge]

why not just work after your bachelors?

[waxen aspen]

So I guess my "concern" is that I might find something i like better than DS in the CS classes. Another concern is versatility of the degree. And what is harder/ easier to self-learn post masters. I Agree with your point on its not the degree its the portfolio and previous experience, so I can self learn DS or CS after the degree is completed, but which owuld be harder to self learn?

I am done with bachelors i did Pyshcology, I am doing bridge classes into a masters program. I have one semester done and I have to choose where im heading by tmrw 🙂

I can "waste time" and continue on the CS track and then jump into DS but thats not that efficient. - edited grammar

[ocean ledge]

thing is, your degree is usually irrelevant after a couple years in the field, and trying to "game your degree" on these things is just adding unnecessary stress. there are a lot of roles out there, not just "swe" and "data scientist" that you're going for. there are data engineers, infra engineers, sres, ml engineers, dev/ml-ops, distsys engs, etc. that blur the lines between teams, and any skillset you develop can fit into this spectrum of roles

as long as you are learning something that you feel is interesting to you, you are not "wasting time"

[orchid ivy]

when it comes to your degree, compare the classes in each program and see which ones you're genuinely interested in. that should help you decide which program is best for you.

[ocean ledge]

for context, my degree is in pure mathematics, and i work in ml engineering. i code a lot of ml infrastructure, production ml models, and i also contribute to the pure ds-side of mathematical modeling of the solution set

i have also hired data scientists and data engineers, all of them hold non-ds masters-- we have masters in hydrology, electrical engineering, phds in physics, math, cs... i have worked with phds in jazz music on the engineering side, and masters in english on the ds side

you are not completely fucked if your degree isn't in ds/cs-- nor is having those degrees gonna give you that much of an edge in the market. instead, cultivate your own personal project portfolio and attend programming/data science conferences to meet other like-minded individuals

[waxen aspen]

masters in hydrology lol wow cool!

[orchid ivy]

lol i'm also not stem. i started with a bs/ms in accounting & tax. so yeah, there's no right or wrong path. ^^

[waxen aspen]

thanks for the context, well for me im gonna be in ds/cs so thats good.

[lone ridge]

Thank you for those links

[desert nacelle]

Hi, i'm very new to this server and i have a app idea. Just a quick question, are we allowed on this server to share app/business ideas in order to get interested people on board?

[summer roost]

!rule 6 forbids that

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[tardy linden]

Any Data visualization experts here?

and Tableau

[floral light]

i want to study Electronic and telecommunication engineeering what programming language do i learn? i thought of python is it good?

[sinful lance]

No Python very 💩

[wise roost]

what programming language should i learn for making games?

[digital fjord]

C# or JS is probably a good starting point.

python can work as well

[carmine rose]

in the future i want to become a Game dev
What programming language should i start with, i am amateur in python.

[digital fjord]

programming languages you start with don't matter, but the most common languages in profi gamedev are C# and C++, as well as JS for web games, though those are generally smaller in scope.

[carmine rose]

What about mobile games

[digital fjord]

C#, kotlin and java would be my assumption, but I didn't do a whole lot in that domain.

[true harness]

swift for iOS, anything on the jvm for Android

[fiery latch]

except for jython 😦

[digital fjord]

you could use something like kivy for making android games in python, it's just not all that common since, well, first party languages tend to work better

[fiery latch]

If you use unity and C# i'm fairly sure you can compile to any machine, including the web

[digital fjord]

yup, unity runs on most things

[fiery latch]

I quite enjoyed my experience using Unity too. It's pretty good

[wise roost]

is python good for making games

[fiery latch]

It's good for making small projects

[digital fjord]

it is fun for simple games, but once you get to games with a massive scope, you run into issues

[fiery latch]

For actual games you want to release into the world there are better options

[digital fjord]

but for example, there is the pyweek game jam which regularly makes very fun games without running into massive issues.
If you want to spend a week or two making a simple game, python is a good option, but if you are a massive studio with 3 years time, maybe reconsider.
However, there is a place there as well, for example, eve online backend is almost entirely stackless python.

[vapid jay]

hey Hi guys?

[floral minnow]

Ello

[lament geyser]

do any of you think its worth the effort to learn older languages (java etc)? Im currently in high school and I know python, c++, and js

[still condor]

Java is 6 years younger than Python 🙂

[near ocean]

Java is widely used, why wouldn't you want to learn it? You're not gonna lose anything by doing it

[smoky raptor]

Java huh

[near ocean]

Not really career related, learning in general is always a good thing, why wouldnt you want to learn a new language? Java is a high level language like python, its simple, its got a huge ecosystem, there's build tools that help with the annoying asprcts of it
The entirety of the banking industry is using java in one way or another, you cannot go wrong with learning java

[lament geyser]

hm ok good point

[true harness]

and cpp is older than java by like 15 years

[lament geyser]

dang I had no idea

[regal magnet]

😮

[pastel marten]

I just relocated to London and I have around 4/5 months pretty much spare before I start something more serious mid-September -- any advice on finding short term contracts, or anybody have any leads?

[plush galleon]

A relative of mine makes a pretty decent living out of COBOL for more than 30 years

[plush galleon]

The first C++ version was meant to be a superset of C created by Bjarne Stroustrup who worked with Dennis Ritchie at the time

[plush galleon]

12 years but you get the point

Java was influenced by C++

[plush galleon]

For electronics you should probably start with C++ and C (or Rust if you want to bet on this)

[ocean ledge]

learn a more interesting language, like ocaml or rust

expand yourself with different paradigms-- java is boring

[plush galleon]

Why don't you like these languages?

[ocean ledge]

i love these languages?

[plush galleon]

I felt like you were sarcastic and didn't like them

[ocean ledge]

if i were being sarcastic i would have said java

[sudden quartz]

If youre an avid programmer or a Computer Science major definently learn newer languages like Go, Kotlin, Rust. If you arent, its best to get good at a language you will certainly use on the job like Javascript, Java, Python, or C based

[plush galleon]

I have to practice Java for college and I think I'd better clean restrooms as I did for a whole summer a couple of years ago

Actually I don't think anyone would go wrong by learning anything C-based

[shut pine]

where should i learn python?

[plush galleon]

Wherever wou want

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[shut pine]

i took a course on udemy yesterday.how many days will it take to learn this course?

[plush galleon]

You're in the wrong section

[shut pine]

how so mate?

[plush galleon]

#python-discussion

[shut pine]

which is the right one?

[plush galleon]

I already told you that and you waited 20 seconds to ask an already answered question

This one is about careers

[lament geyser]

theres a fine balance between regulation and innovation

[plush galleon]

What's the point of your message?

[glossy orbit]

I kind of regret not majoring in CS

I found my liking for python my senior year and it’s been fun trying to learn the language

Majoring in information systems is great but I would of loved to learn more python, pandas, numpy. The curriculum seemed a bit old as the only language for the degree was Java 🤯

[true harness]

||python is older than java||

[marsh wind]

Yeah but in some schools they teach ancient Java

[near ocean]

When i was in uni they taught java 8 which was current at the time

They should be teaching java 11 now

[marsh wind]

Few days ago they said im some schools they teach Java 7-8

[true harness]

java 8 is new enough

[near ocean]

java 8 is not supported anymore, LTS is java 11

[marsh wind]

I guess Java 8 is OK if they aim android devs (although why not Kotlin then?)as afaik it's higest fully supported one

[ocean ledge]

they still teach java? these curricula gotta catch up smh

[marsh wind]

plenty of it

[plush galleon]

Where are you from?

Actually you could still write Java 8 without running into any issue

Changes weren't comparable to the migration from Python 2 to Python 3

[near ocean]

I doubt unis still teach java 7 or earlier. They could get away with java 8 however cause it had a couple major features, mainly the streams api

Also java is easy and they use it to teach other things like dsa, concurrency, etc

[plush galleon]

Actually they use more often Python or C for DSA

But Java can be useful for concurrency

[near ocean]

My uni didnt even do C unless you chose a compiler module in year three

[marsh wind]

I had half year of C# and half C/cpp... But mine is not a good example

[glossy orbit]

Virginia

[rocky zodiac]

Hello, I am studying for an exam and going over my pratice problems

will anyone be willing to help me with this problem? i want to understand it for when i am
I am taking my exam tomorrow.

[near ocean]

You want to try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[rocky zodiac]

I see thanks

[summer roost]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[exotic frigate]

Sorry.

[dense nymph]

Im thinking of applying to a masters of computer science in the States (I'm Canadian and did my undergrad in Canada) in 2023 (I am cuurrently 21). Im thinking of taking the basic fundamentals (ds and algos, OOP, etc) at a local community college before applying. in which i will earn a certificate in CS What do you think of my plan? Feel free to ping me

[sudden quartz]

I feel its a great plan, nothing wrong with it. Is your intention research or learning a skill?

[devout needle]

I come from an accountancy diploma and will be pursuing a cs degree in about 3 months. Currently going through stanford CS 106A course to prepare. Any other advice for me?

[hollow flame]

Do projects, dont have to be big but projects that are your own doing will help immensely

If thats a stretch, integrate it with your accounting knowledge and do projects that automate something from accounting you are familar with

[smoky raptor]

Is masters doing worth besides research especially in CS domains?

[marsh wind]

US? @smoky raptor

[smoky raptor]

I'm not from US but considering MS there

[lyric mason]

Need python dev who has worked with tkinter

For a paid task

[true harness]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be shared with others in #python-general and code reviews can be asked for in a help channel.

[wise roost]

!rule 1

[inner wren]

Rules

1. Follow the Discord Community Guidelines and Terms Of Service.

[pseudo plinth]

Hi, I am curious about what key academic underpinning is important or necessary to land a job in data science i.e. what are the "must-haves" and what are the "should-haves" etc. Feel free to tag/mention/ping me if responding 🙂 The other thing I'd like to ask is, I'm studying a degree called "MEng Mathematical Computation" (uni: UCL) and it is an integrated master's. However, if I leave after completing the third year I will be awarded a "BSc Mathematical Computing Studies". Does this change my career prospects, is it worth sticking around for the Master's. Also, the 3 year degree is unaccredited by the British Computer Society and some other body, does that make a difference?

[near ocean]

Yes. You definitely want an accredited degree no doubt

[pseudo plinth]

I mean this with all due respect, how are you so sure that I want an accredited degree - have you been involved in recruitment or something?

I know this wasn't aimed at me but thank you for the elaborate response

[near ocean]

When youre accredited by a professional body you get some extra perks, youre "chartered", you demonstrate that you are credible and qualified in your profession
Some positions actually require you to be chartered

[onyx locust]

hello guys, i had a question, are software engineers ubiquitous in today's market for employers?

im 17 and im in my last year of school, i love to code and i want to work for a company that is destined to change the world. im capable for creating high fidelity programs and i wanted to know the degree best for me. im liking software engineering alot as a pathway because i also love low level hardware

[near ocean]

Having a degree be recognized and accredited by professional bodies is what sets apart universities from boot camps

[pseudo plinth]

while I don't disagree with you, if you leave with a bachelor's on a programme that was originally an integrated master's, the degrees from Oxford are also unaccredited due to their lack of an "individual project" (as that was meant to be done in 4th year)

You aren't lacking any of the knowledge or experiencing reduced quality of teaching or anything, it's just that the accreditation requires an "Individual Project" (dissertation or similar)

[near ocean]

Yea well you could have the same knowledge from selflearning but its not gonna be the same without the esteem of a large professional body backing you up
And thats gonna hurt your employability

By a lot*

[pseudo plinth]

I see, but surely with a university like Oxford, no employer in their right mind would even look at the accreditation, no?

[near ocean]

Good point, oxford grads might be able to get away with it but you should understand that youre not gonna be on the same footing as other oxford grads with accreditation

[pseudo plinth]

Yes, I do recognise that

[near ocean]

Whats the reason you want to graduate early?

[pseudo plinth]

well, primarily because I'm 24 and want to live on my own ASAP

[near ocean]

Can you transfer to a similar accredited 3year degree?

[pseudo plinth]

I tried to transfer to BSc Computer Science 🙄 I was turned down due to this silly module called "IEP 2" (integrated engineering project)

[near ocean]

Oh shit haha i remember that module

I was at ucl when they introduced it in 2014, it had terrible reviews from students, it caused the uni to fall in ranking

[pseudo plinth]

yup, the irony is that module is a joke compared to the rest

and pre-requisites? Mate I studied Algebra 1, 2 and 3 in one go (no exams 1st year cause of covid lol)

welp, I'll probably stick around for the MEng then even though I'm dreading it

[near ocean]

Its just one more year, you get to do some more networking and maybe find housemates if you want to move out of your parents or just cut down on rent

[pseudo plinth]

So, as someone who has been on a similar path as me, how do you think UCL prepared you for employment and what field did you end up working in?

[near ocean]

I didnt graduate from UCL, so cant really answer that, I did 2 years of MEng EEE and then dropped it to go for a BSc CS

And my friends who did graduate from UCL have family businesses so i cant really ask them about employability

UCL is a top school tho, you shouldnt struggle at all to find work

[pseudo plinth]

I hope not but I'm dreadful at CS 😂 Probably one of the worst this batch

[pseudo plinth]

So correct me if I'm wrong, you did Electronic and Electrical Engineering at UCL and then switched to a CS degree at a different institute? Surely you could have finished your degree while learning the essentials for programming?

[near ocean]

I could have but i did not like EEE at all and had some medical issues at the time, i dropped out and applied to another uni through clearing

[pseudo plinth]

Fair enough, I know what that's like bro, hope you're doing well 👍 Hence why I'm 24 and still haven't graduated 😂

[vapid jay]

so what are the chances of getting a job in the future with python(16, learning python for 4 years currently making an API)

[shadow moss]

Depends but solely python for Software developers, low

[vapid jay]

ive also done java for a year

[shadow moss]

Python is rarely used as primary language but more as glue language, the stuff we love about it, lack of typing and white space as control, classes optional and visibility always is stuff that can make it problematic at scale.

Java/Kotlin, C# or JS/TS are more common

And I’m talking as American, other parts of the world may be different

[marsh wind]

but for backend web dev for example, can't they start first as pure python BE and then gradually learn JS/TS for Fullstack?

[vapid jay]

not for web dev

[shadow moss]

Big grain of each company is different but a ton of backends are Java, C# and Node

Esp when they didn’t build micro services

[shadow moss]

We have old web service with 97 endpoints that encompass entire service.

[sudden quartz]

Since you go to a top school you will probably get a Data Science job without the accreditation or a master degree. Plus Mathematical Computing is right up the Data Science alley. Data Science and Machine Learning is a new field and they'd definently bring someone unique like you to the team.

This is just based off my logic and America. I have no idea how Britain works.

[pseudo plinth]

Thanks for the kind words and your perspective on it 🙂 I'll try to keep it in mind 👍

[sudden quartz]

Pretty high. But there is a lot of competition for Python and it depends on what you want to do. Someone as skilled as you at a young age should probably tackle a more difficult language with a different programming paradigm. Perhaps a newer language as well, like Kotlin.

Python is used almost exclusively on the mathematical end.

[neon moat]

If your primary concern is solely getting a job for incomes sake then javascript is probs the best choice for anyone

[vapid jay]

i mean no problem im just creating a py api to learn it indepth i want an enjoyable job first of all

[neon moat]

but you should always check companies in your area to see what they are recruiting for

[vapid jay]

i mean im in the 1st yr of hs and next year well do python so

i refreshed my memories

[neon moat]

once you have your first language down the 2nd will be easier, my first language was python and made learning javascript so much easier

[sudden quartz]

If youre making an API with Python youre already employable. But its not about skill anymore. There are hundreds of people more qualified if you dont have a degree. If you get one before uni entry youre just lucky.

[vapid jay]

i have made a firebase android app but with java

[sudden quartz]

Keep your look local and hope you find someone willing to hire you for internship or something

[vapid jay]

i am 100% getting into a uni if i want it cuz luckily in my country theyre free so why not

it went like this: py, java, c++, assembly, java, py

im just disoriented from what i should be doing rn

[neon moat]

if you're in Uni then chill, you have plenty of time

[sudden quartz]

You cant go wrong with anything object oriented shadofer

[vapid jay]

im 1st grade of high school

[neon moat]

any staticly typed language is great, as well as something like python

[vapid jay]

im pretty advanced id say for my age

[neon moat]

there is no 'wrong' language as such

[vapid jay]

ive created from apis, to basic chatting apps to some back end but i still feel like a newbie

[sudden quartz]

Except PHP

[pulsar drum]

It's the beginner's fallacy to worry about languages. Just pick one and learned it; it doesn't really matter, because it's not a huge time investment to get to the point where you can comfortably move on to another one. Hell, my first college course used Visual Basic .NET. I turned out alright.

[marsh wind]

does sounds that way 🙂 tbh if you keep up that pace and learn efficiently you should not have issues getting job after uni

[neon moat]

there are exceptions haha, i mean any modern language that is used

[vapid jay]

i could just master a language and help others but that would not be very smart in order to get a job

[sudden quartz]

As a computer science student I wish I wouldve started with C

[marsh wind]

tbh, some devs I know say recent php releases turn it in pretty good one

[vapid jay]

i always lol when people say learn c

[neon moat]

depends what you want to work on

decide whether u want to be a web dev, or design systems, or data science etc

[vapid jay]

i despise web dev, tried many times

[lucid vapor]

I've heard the same thing about PHP 5 or 7, I can't remember the number.

I believe it was 7

[marsh wind]

front, back or both?

[vapid jay]

python is ok for some ai

[neon moat]

then focus on a systems language as Rabbit has explained

[vapid jay]

is there backend for py, i suck at designing

[neon moat]

yes python is used for backend

[lucid vapor]

Yes, frameworks like Django and FastAPI are good for backend web dev.

[marsh wind]

I mean... Django, FastAPI, falsk to name a few

[neon moat]

if you learned C and then Python you would have a fantastic base for backend

[vapid jay]

is it famous for backend cuz java is used but i havent seen good reviews about it

[marsh wind]

bitbucket used (maybe still used) Django at backend, dropbox used python in backend, according to them it was like 4mil lines of python

[neon moat]

Java is good aswell, just pick one and go for it

[lucid vapor]

Instagram used Django too (with a fork of CPython)

[neon moat]

django is just a python framework

[vapid jay]

i mean i thought creating an api would take forever but here i am learning tons of stuff each day so idk if i should focus on py

[neon moat]

if you're still in uni then just chill and take the time to learn something lower level

if you like python then you will only benefit from learning C

[lucid vapor]

I personally would suggest that most devs should learn at least one high level and one low level language