career-advice

[worn atlas]

can we share resume here

[ashen elk]

did you ask any feedback on why did they reject you? learning from your mistakes would be the only way to get an internship

[worn atlas]

I applied through linkedin I didn't had any interviews :|

[ashen elk]

what did they say apart from the rejection?

[worn atlas]

they say nothing no call no mail nothing

[hearty island]

Idk what world you're living in

but most companies tend to not say anything

you get ghosted a lot

[ashen elk]

👀

you can ask politely for some feedback tho

[hearty island]

yeah politely ask feedback to what?

an automated system?

that says please do not reply to this email?

[ashen elk]

hmmm...

[hearty island]

getting ghosted by companies for internships and jobs is a very common experience

[ashen elk]

@hearty island so what are collegers expected to do to get internships

[worn atlas]

Nah I got no mails from any company

[hearty island]

it's a shit show

you just have to go through it

it's a numbers game

[ashen elk]

but having previous internships/work experience helps right?

[hearty island]

ofc it does

but for your first internship

[worn atlas]

gpa and marks does too

[hearty island]

if they require a previous internship

[ashen elk]

of your life or after college?

[hearty island]

what project is even going to replace a previous internship

huh?

a blog?

[worn atlas]

what's your ages?

[hearty island]

19

[ashen elk]

no, like first internship after you graduate or first internship of your life?

[worn atlas]

you're doing great

[hearty island]

first internship of your life

[jolly furnace]

well u gotta apply alot

[hearty island]

yeah

[ashen elk]

ooh, that's great

[hearty island]

that's my point

[jolly furnace]

like ive applyed to 100 jobs for this summer and ive got 7 interviews

[hearty island]

I already had my first internship but it was bullshit

[ashen elk]

so if someone does get their first internship, it becomes easier?

[hearty island]

unpaid marketing internship

yeah you get ignored less

[jolly furnace]

its not fun applying but u kinda need to do it

[worn atlas]

i feel like developers field is less crowded than data science

[hearty island]

you have to just endlessly apply

[jolly furnace]

well entry dev jobs are just as crowded

[worn atlas]

okay budyy

[ashen elk]

I feel like being young prompts the companies to atleast give a reply especially in startups

[hearty island]

all jobs in tech are pretty chaotic

[jolly furnace]

the thing is once u apply to so many jobs u dont really care why the company rejected u

the company becomes just one in the hundreds u applied to

[hearty island]

devs don't really have it any easier tbh

[ashen elk]

sad

[jolly furnace]

u just end up frogetting the company name

[ashen elk]

how is the candidate then supposed to understand what key points they are lacking in?

[hearty island]

you literally don't

this isn't a perfect world

[jolly furnace]

like last sept i caont even remeber what companies ive applied to

[ashen elk]

maybe they can compare their CV with their friends who got one?

[hearty island]

if a girl turns you down are you gonna make her give you bullet points on why she rejected you

lmao

[jolly furnace]

and also asking y u were not good enough for each position u apply ends up being too tiring

[worn atlas]

where were you all applying?

[jolly furnace]

u just say okay and move on

[ashen elk]

🤔

[worn atlas]

:(

[hearty island]

move on and keep applying

[worn atlas]

I'm applying from 6 months

not even getting single rejection

[ashen elk]

for me, my personal projects seem to be of great interest to everyone for applying to my first internship 🤔

[worn atlas]

??

[ashen elk]

they literally said they can't remember most of the companies they applied to

[jolly furnace]

some ppl post lists of positions on reddit

or github

with the aim of letting ppl mass apply

[hearty island]

stack overflow has internship positions

god knows if the companies will pay attention to you if you apply

but they do exist

[ashen elk]

so you guys don't customize your CV for the position?

[worn atlas]

I'm lost I don't have any positions

[hearty island]

no ofc you do

you tailor your CV

[ashen elk]

then how do you apply to so many positions?

[hearty island]

your CV when you apply to a dev position should be different from when you apply to a project manager position/ data science position

[ashen elk]

it should be different for each company, no?

[jolly furnace]

there is a point where u realize ur resume looks about the same

[ashen elk]

related to what work they do and what they expect you to do

[jolly furnace]

and things are just worded slightly different

[hearty island]

your resume when you apply to a tech company

is different from when you apply to work at a grocery store

stuff like that

but generally it won't change much

if you're applying between different genres of tech

[ashen elk]

so what do they expect in an ideal candidate?

[hearty island]

a goddamn unicorn

[worn atlas]

lmao

[ashen elk]

realistically?

[hearty island]

someone who generally fills in the requirements

[ashen elk]

so that should be easy right? skills and degree

[hearty island]

you would think so right

[ashen elk]

well, then no one in the entire college gets an intenship?

the some that do get; what are their achievements?

[hearty island]

idk dude

I got a paid internship from Textron

I have no notable achievements

[ashen elk]

well, then is there anyone here who has gotten an internship in some famous company; if so, can you please hint at your achievements??

[hearty island]

how is that going to help you

[delicate bane]

no people do. it also depends on your field of study

what are you studying rn?

[hearty island]

isn't he in high school

or something

also isn't he in India

[delicate bane]

well, if thats the case, you first need to get into college. since most companies will not accept high schoolers

[hearty island]

at least in the US when I was in high school we did summer programs

[delicate bane]

due to legal age/legislation surrounding work for minors

its a big hassle

[hearty island]

you could go to a college

and code for the summer

stuff like that

I did that for the Binghamton summer program

it was a load of bs

but it was fun

[delicate bane]

nice

[hearty island]

we didn't actually learn any python or java

it was arduino

[delicate bane]

i did research internships in undergrad

[hearty island]

not sure why they picked that as a starting language

[delicate bane]

but that was in a dif field

do i still put it on my resume? yes

[hearty island]

I am uncomfy putting binghamton high school program on my resume

bc I didn't do jack shit

[ocean ledge]

aside from the first job, i think people usually get jobs through networking?

[hearty island]

yeah

[ocean ledge]

i don't think i've updated my resume for quite some time now

[hearty island]

I think networking is overrated for internships

or my alumni network is literally useless

or the way I talk to people is bad

bc I didn't get anything out of it

[ocean ledge]

i don't know anything about internships

other than what our interns tell us, which is that they're hard to get, even for phd interns

[hearty island]

one time I got an offer

and then they asked for my driver's license

and my dad was like

hell no dude

that's sus

so literally half an hour later they rejected me

[ocean ledge]

did your internship involve truck driving

[hearty island]

no

my dad was like

they're gonna make fake copies of your ID

it was some startup

using "ML/AI" to predict the accuracy of news

and apparently one of the guys there started Tinder???

god knows

I am trying to find the name

it was some stupid name maybe it'll come back to me later

well they were acting like it was some brand new novel idea

but there's a ton of companies doing the same thing

[ashen elk]

ikr

still, I would like to know what are usually the achievements that set people out in ML/AI

[hearty island]

it's easy really

build the terminator

[ashen elk]

that's helpful. nvm it

[little trellis]

Putting ML models into production and knowing about the trade offs there is a useful and rare skill set

For me it was clearly explaining ML projects I’ve worked on either with another company or personally that were relevant to what the company would want built

Is there an industry you’re focused on @ashen elk?

[spare swift]

wait that's really cool

I'm currently an undergrad getting into machine learning research got any advice on determining when to use different ML models?

[ashen elk]

I am just askin' for general advice on what type of achievements really stick out. For me too, explaining my personal projects did pretty good for me, but in general - what makes an ML/AI candidate stand out?

[little trellis]

Concrete achievements in the field. If you can tell me that you implemented this ML model for a company and the impact it generated that will stand out. Also being able to clearly tell me how you would use ML to approach my company’s problems.

[little trellis]

Not much advice there. It’s more of just an experience thing. Learn the ins and outs of a wide range of models, apply them to actual data, and in time you’ll get a feel for what’s going to work for the data you have. There will always be some level of experimentation

[hearty island]

What’s a concrete achievement in the field?

Research?

[inner bramble]

In quite some time I'll enter to my computer science major. What I've learn at College till now feels useless and what I want to focus on is getting a job. So, on my own(self taught)I learned some python till being able to build basic desktop apps with tkinter. Html, css, javascript, sass to build simple websites. But none of this, makes me feel like I can get a job. I want get my first job cause I feel like I'm waisting time. Can you guys tell me what was your first job? How you got it? and If you felt prepared for it?

[ashen elk]

I would say competetions probably

Kaggle

[main thicket]

Make more complicated websites

At work, you'd make more complicated websites, so that's basically what you're missing

[lucid vapor]

Take a couple amazing websites, and try to replicate them.

But customize them to what you like.

I have a couple that deal in various things, all that would push anyone's limits.

I can send you the links if you want.

[inner bramble]

Yeah, let's get positive.

[inner bramble]

Send them to me.

thank you for the recomendations. @main thicket and @lucid vapor

[delicate bane]

youre still in college right? maybe start with an internship if you dont feel like youre ready for a real job

[inner bramble]

I applied for one. It's not payed but I hopee that it help me start.

Yet, I don't know if they'll accept me

[lucid vapor]

Do you have a portfolio? One that shows everything you can do? It'll really make you stand out if you have a good one.

[hearty island]

don’t waste your time on unpaid internships

[inner bramble]

Oh.. I see. So, no unpaid internships.

I didn't know that.

[main thicket]

Which country are you in?

[inner bramble]

Nope, I don't have a portfolio. I'll try making one and I'll add it to my github

[inner bramble]

USA

[main thicket]

You should be applying for dozens of paid internships

There's literally hundreds

[inner bramble]

I moved to a remote place and since here things move so slow I feel a bit losed.

[main thicket]

Which area?

[lucid vapor]

There will be dozens of remote ones.

[inner bramble]

pitsburg

[main thicket]

Bro pittsburgh is teaming with internships

[inner bramble]

What do you mean?

[main thicket]

Pittsburgh is a huge hub for AI, Robotics, etc.

Also biotech

[inner bramble]

Any recomandation...?

Do you mean that I should get a job through websites like fivers?

[main thicket]

Search on any job board (Linkedin, Indeed, etc) "Software Intern" and start applying

[inner bramble]

fiverr

To all of them?...

[main thicket]

All of the ones you're interested in

I mean, it doesn't cost anything to apply and you're competing against hundreds, you should be applying to as many as possible

With a good resume

[inner bramble]

a good resume as a started?

I mean, I won't have that much experience to put but I'll do my best on projects that gives me some value.

@main thicket, thanks for the recomendation.

[lucid vapor]

Yeah, for college students, projects are the best thing to go on your resume.

Because you won't have much previous work experience in software, you have to highlight the things you've done best, which is often your projects.

[inner bramble]

I see. @lucid vapor I'll work on some projects and afterwards I'll share them in this group. Glad to be part of this comunity.

[delicate bane]

yes projects are a great resume builder

[delicate bane]

indeed.com, glassdoor.com, etc. - sites like those. not fiverr

[inner bramble]

well, guess fiverr is not an option then.

[little trellis]

Try to make your project as approachable as possible. Interactive if possible. Hiring managers and HR don’t spend much time combing through GitHub

[inner bramble]

I see where you're going. The least time they spend on our Github Projects they should gain the max value posible.

[little trellis]

Yup, make things clean and approachable

[chrome salmon]

basically make a it like a tinder profile lol

[twin pendant]

How do I stop getting down on myself

I feel like when I fuck up I just feel so stupid

Like I’m never going to accomplish what I want to

And I’m still learning as a beginner rn but still

Ouch

[chrome salmon]

Be patient with yourself and realize your not the only one. It doesn't matter how intelligent you are. if you make a commitment with yourself you well see achievement one day.

[elder isle]

I am a self-taught Python programmer, and am looking to build my project experience a bit. Anyone have recommendations of sites to do small freelance projects?

[chrome salmon]

Try some simple projects like tik tak toe or black jack. Web scraper would be good. If your pretty experienced try a framework out.

https://youtu.be/8ext9G7xspg

@elder isle

[little trellis]

You might have more success approaching local businesses and offering to automate some of their processes with Python

The online freelance sites are a race to the bottom

[chrome salmon]

Ow wait flk I mis read that

[elder isle]

That is an idea. I also have some opportunities to use python at my current job, but looking to get a range of experience if possible.

[chrome salmon]

Ow lol

[elder isle]

Fair, although I care mor about gaining python experience than money at the moment.

[little trellis]

You can try the sites like fiverr. Not sure how well they work though @elder isle

[hearty island]

Online freelance sites are terrible

steer far away

[elder isle]

Noted

[true harness]

how come? i've seen some people do quite well on them

[hearty island]

Too much competition and scams

[ocean schooner]

is AP computer science A a good course to take with no prior coding experience?

[hearty island]

yeah

that’s how most kids start

in my high school

they teach you java from the ground up

like the basics and all that

[ocean schooner]

ah okay sounds good thx for the info

[hearty island]

yeah no problem

[spare juniper]

Should I do comp sci principles if I know a fair amount of python and a little bit of cpp

[hearty island]

No

csp is useless

I did it at my high school

[sand wedge]

guys i need help, i used to think i was tech savvy and very just smart in general when it comes to technology, after trying to learn html css and python i feel like idk what im doing, I love computers and tech in general but the things I thought I would be good at I suck, and if i am terrible at coding and the languages and what not i mean what is a good fit for me? Am i jumping to conclusions

its just hard that the things I have the most interest in and was sure I would be good at, i suck

[ancient sierra]

Sorry for interrupting the question above mine and you can answer mine after the one from before. What are some good jobs that for comp science majors and business minors?

[little trellis]

How long have you been going at it trying to learn?

[little trellis]

I have a business major and a comp sci minor. I started as a marketing coordinator, worked my way up to director, and then moved over to tech and have been working as a data engineer. Any of those things I said you could probably do with enough time and energy spent learning.

Many companies have sales engineers where you support the sales staff as a technical person. That would take advantage of both. There is also product manager and project manager. You could also look towards any traditional software engineering job

[sand wedge]

@little trellis about half of the semester now

but i just thought I would pick up very easy

possibly the learning over zoom due to covid makes it harder for me but then people say that they were able to teach themselves just with that automate the boring stuff book

so im like maybe im not cut for it

[vapid jay]

data engineer pog

[ancient sierra]

Did you like the path you went on or would you have changed it after learning more about that path

[hearty island]

it takes time to learn coding

some people do get it quicker

some people take more time

it all depends on the person

just bc you are taking more time to understand concepts does not mean the field isn’t for you

[vapid jay]

yes you will have to train another 100 years to master

[hearty island]

a skill takes 10,000 hours to master

what not

[vapid jay]

100 years

[hearty island]

416 days

[vapid jay]

yes i agree with this principle

[hearty island]

Around that

[little trellis]

Yeah I’d give yourself some time. In general, it’s harder not in person.

[hearty island]

Yeah it definitely is

You have to be more patient with yourself

[little trellis]

Yup listen to @hearty island

[hearty island]

it’s like exercising

progress is slow but very rewarding

also this is basically like any new skill

if you started singing and you’ve never even sang before ofc you’re gonna take a while to improve

[sand wedge]

appreciate it a lot

gotta keep my nose to grindstone i suppose

[hearty island]

it’s ok to take breaks too

so you don’t burn yourself out

[little trellis]

I’d probably have majored in cs rather than done it as a minor. That would have saved me a lot of time self teaching to fill in the gap. Business was a useful subject to get into though as it made me more capable of communicating and understanding the financial aspects of things. I don’t regret any of the path though. I’m glad I got to figure out what I like and what I don’t more before deciding on one.

[hearty island]

@little trellis I’m a business analytics major rn

[forest oyster]

I have a 30 min zoom interview next Tues with the CTO + HR girl for a > 5 years exp algo dev position in a trading firm. Should I be spending my time on Cracking the Coding Interview Book or leetcode/hackerrank? I'm not sure if they'll be asking technical questions, in the email they said: "We'd like to organise a call in the next few days to get to know you better and to answer any questions you may have about the position or the company."

[hearty island]

it sounds like a general interview

not a technical one

unless you already had a general interview

[little trellis]

That’s a good major. Should be a promising future there and lots of potential to move up in skills.

[forest oyster]

No it's my first interview but I want to prepare some algo problems bc I'm weak at those (stats not CS background). Any suggestions?

[hearty island]

@little trellis eh I wouldn’t say so it’s a lot of general fields like economics, management etc

I wish it was more coding focused

[little trellis]

I agree with @hearty island, it sounds more like a screening call but if you want to study either option should be about the same

[hearty island]

@forest oyster if you like textbooks try CLRS it’s a data structures/ algorithms textbook

but I wouldn’t recommend it if you don’t like textbooks

I am currently doing Udacity’s DS/algos course in python but it’s in python 2.7

[little trellis]

Yeah a minor in CS would help but you’ll be able to get a job as an analyst and begin gathering experience as you learn more technical skills and move up

[hearty island]

@little trellis it’s honestly fine though I learn a lot of coding by being on this server

[little trellis]

Never stop learning haha

[hearty island]

uhhh there’s grokking algorithms

But he skimps on code implementations

Supposed to be a general overview w ELI5 examples

[little trellis]

Yeah grokking is good as first intro

[hearty island]

it annoyed me that he skimped on code implementations

but granted that’s not what the book is for

[forest oyster]

Transition into a CS masters 😋

[little trellis]

Yeah, you just have to force yourself into coding out the solutions one way or another

[hearty island]

I guess I’m built different 🥶

[hearty island]

Yes we get it

[blazing iron]

why spam?

[true harness]

<@&267629731250176001> all channels, did it before

maybe not all, at least 3

[alpine tartan]

!pban 745541550846509117 You've done nothing but spam our server invite since you joined

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied purge ban to @jaunty sand permanently.

[vapid jay]

a game dev make more money?

[gray anvil]

More than?

[agile crystal]

I generally go into interviews that they're mostly trying to see if they like me: is this a true sentiment?

[craggy wave]

That depends on the kind of interview. My company typically does multiple rounds, where the first round is where we try to get to know the applicant to see if they'd fit in with the company. It's also where we try to discover the areas of interested someone has.

The second round is typically a technical interview based on a programming test/challenge we give them. It serves mostly as a starting point for a conversation and as a way of assessing the level of the applicant.

[sturdy wren]

I am mechanical engineer by training and now an accidental product manager. I like to do coding more than the product management but I am not a hardcore coder. How should I make transition to more of software engineering role than product management role.

[lost leaf]

I’m currently pursuing a CS Major. I’m interested in Database Management. As far as I understand, that’s a DBA, but most DBA positions require several years of work experience. For someone who hasn’t had a job (even during HS) Where should I start? I know: Python, HTML/CSS/JS, basic SQL, am learning Java, and soon C. Despite my lack of job experience is it feasible to land a job when I finish college knowing 7+ different coding languages across both front- & back-end?

[hearty island]

I have no experience w database management

But I assume SQL is important

if you already know 7+ different coding languages over the years I’m sure you can pull an internship or two

[uncut grotto]

@lost leaf learn programming, not languages

C also a waste of time

do projects

[gray anvil]

If you can demonstrate competence in the inevitable technical coding tests you will receive as a job seeker, you'll get work

The projects get you past the screening phase

[hearty island]

C is your best shot at systems programming

and hardware

don't diss it

[forest oyster]

I got a 30min zoom interview next Tues. Is it ok to email and ask the HR person if there will be technical questions, or will that jeopardise my chances

[hearty island]

unless he's not going into that

[uncut grotto]

@hearty island I thought he wanted to to DBA

so C is a waste of time

[hearty island]

yeah then you're right

[hearty island]

no it won't

[gray anvil]

They'll probably give you a vague answer, and that's partially because hr don't know nothing about technical matters

[uncut grotto]

@lost leaf doesnt matter what language you know: matters what projects you did. Knowing 20 programming language doesn't mean that you can apply theory to practice

dont waste time learning new languages

learn only one

[gray anvil]

That too

[hearty island]

know one well

7 languages and a master of none means nothing

I can print hello world in 7 languages

that doesn't mean I'll get hired

[gray anvil]

You usually only really need one because in your first job that is all you will use.

Write code in that language, apply it to whatever software you're interacting with, that's your JD

[hearty island]

what's a JD

[lost leaf]

C is just the next language I learn in the career track at my college. Been working on building a bot outside of college. Don’t know if employers will be interested in a project if it doesn’t have any practical application for them.

[gray anvil]

Job description

[uncut grotto]

@lost leaf it doesnt matter: doing projects mean that you can apply what you learnt

[marsh wind]

also allows to have a discussion with you about architecture, structuring the project, way you approach things etc

[gray anvil]

Anyone can list a bunch of languages they learnt on their cv, but the interviewer will aks you how you applied it, that's when you talk about your portfolio

[uncut grotto]

programming in Python at my job, but I only knew JS when applied to the job

you'll learn the tools at your job

also know several other languages which I picked up while on the job

[gray anvil]

If you have decent html and css, make yourself a portfolio website

It will make you stand out

Use bootstrap or whatever

Maintain a github

Commit semi regularly

You come out of college with that, you're in a good position

[lost leaf]

Yea. I’m coding my project 95% in Python, 5% SQL (interacting with a database) despite learning a different language in college for a class. (Already have a GitHub but don’t have much on it yet)

[uncut grotto]

@lost leaf once again: doesn't matter what language: at my job we're contantly using different languages. You'll never get a JS/Python/whatever job, and only programming only at that one

[gray anvil]

To be perfectly honest, if you want to find work as a DBA, don't sweat knowing the sql backend that much

No one is going to let you anywhere near that close to the production server straight out of college

[hearty island]

if you learn one language well

you can learn the others easily

[gray anvil]

Get familiarity with one of the cloud stacks

[hearty island]

Python is object oriented so something like Java, C++ should come easier

[gray anvil]

Wherever you're living right now, cloud adoption is going up where you are

And the concepts carry over

I did the azure fundamental and associate certs on my own, my company uses AWS, don't matter, all the concepts carry over

And python is very very good to know, because first thing you're doing is probably running lambda functions or azure functions against your company resources

Lambda as in aws lambda

In fact, for the two guys wanting to be dbas in this conversation, Microsoft for sure is either giving 50% off or free azure fundamentals training and exams

Because they want people like you working on their stack

And they normally charge 100+ usd for this, so get googling :)

I think gcp has some program you can apply for too

Aws I don't know

[zinc rover]

Hello, where should I apply for a remote internship?

[hearty island]

Linkedin, Chegg Internships, Indeed, Glassdoor

you can also just search up remote internship in google

and filter by how recently it was posted

[zinc rover]

ok

[deft rune]

hi

[wispy tiger]

GitLab also hires 100% remote

[ashen elk]

tbh those languages look so much different than python. I doubt any pythonista can transitition to Java or C++ with absolute ease. its not just the syntax, but also the core concepts too

[neon moat]

^

[neon moat]

completely agree with this, python was my first language and currently learning Go, lots of different concepts and terminology

Understanding OOP and OOD is transferable across all languages and once you understand fundamental programming concepts then yes learning a 2nd language is easier than your first. But not an 'easy' transition for anyone

[hearty island]

I’ve seen “pythonistas” transfer into Java

[neon moat]

anyone can transfer into anything, just the time it takes to get there, one person might take 30hours and another 100

[hearty island]

All I said is if you learn one language well you can learn another language too

I don’t see how you disagree with that

[neon moat]

I dont disagree with you at all

[hearty island]

yeah so I’m not disagreeing w you

I disagree w awesome ruler

[neon moat]

Python is quite high level if its your first language, im not arguing with you and have no intention to, learning a staticly typed language etc as a 2nd language can be a hurdle to get ur head around

[hearty island]

isn’t python staticly typed too?

like you can’t add 3 + “5”

like you can in javascript

In python that’s a typerror

[vapid jay]

That's not static typing, it's strongly typed

[hearty island]

Oh

Python is dynamically typed

is it that big of a change you just have to declare the type of variable you want something to be

[neon moat]

from my limited experience, declaring a type in and of itself is not a big change, understanding 'why' you are declaring a variable of that type and what you want to do with it is a big change

whereas in python it just handles it all for you

[marsh wind]

And screws you yp eventually :)

[neon moat]

haha, I've got that to come 😂

[neon moat]

do you mean python or another language? or both? 😂

[marsh wind]

Python or any dynamic types one

[summer roost]

It's a pretty big change to not be able to change the type of a variable as the function runs. And there's a big difference in how you write generic functions that can work with multiple types of arguments.

In Python, you can do ```py
x = input()
x = int(x)

You can't do that in a language like C++ or Java.

[azure ore]

Hi

[neon moat]

yeah the system i work with gets a lot of typeerrors, dont know whether a static language would catch this before hand

[marsh wind]

https://dropbox.tech/application/our-journey-to-type-checking-4-million-lines-of-python

There's a reason mypy exists :)

[azure ore]

I have a test tmrw abt algorithm and i have a problem abt table TONT

[marsh wind]

Big advantage of those is that you can catch many of those issue at compile time rather than runtime

[neon moat]

thanks, ill give that a read

[marsh wind]

I think if you use type hints, smth like mypy and cover code well with tests you could avoid most of typing issues in python too.

But this Dropbox one was interesting read

[azure ore]

Like for example
print(e.dc)

[marsh wind]

They even hired GvR so 🤷‍♂️

#❓｜how-to-get-help @azure ore

This is not an appropriate channel for getting help like that

[azure ore]

Thx

[neon moat]

yeah I can understand why type hinting can be useful, my only question is would that affect duck typing in any way?

[marsh wind]

Well plain type hints have no effect on runtime. It's mostly for linters and IDEs plus other devs to read code and understand

[neon moat]

true

just thinking if you had mypy running as part of your build process etc

but yeah probs thinking too far ahead

[marsh wind]

I think should be fine. Myself I ont scratched surface of mypy

So I am not qualified to answer questions that fully

[neon moat]

fair enough, appreciate your answers, thanks 👍

[marsh wind]

I do plan to look into golang soon. Just to take a step back to static type language.

Mostly for myself now

[neon moat]

ive just started learning Go, mostly for myself as well, would be my first 'official' 2nd language even tho I write both python and JS for my job 😂

[marsh wind]

How is that second than?

I mean, you already can have js and python in CV if you do it for job

[neon moat]

haha true, python, JS, bash, terraform 😂

only thing that I miss in Go that python gives me is the REPL, even tho the tour of go site does provide instant feedback, but just shows me how awesome python is

[marsh wind]

Repl is a thing for interpreted language only isn't it

[neon moat]

true, but as my first language ive been spoiled haha

im just aware im going off-topic haha

[marsh wind]

Well it got you first job

Unless 2021-2022 crashes the economy more than covid, it should be upwards journey now

[neon moat]

fingers crossed, I think most devs imo in jobs will be fine, I think graduates and interns etc will be hit hardest

but im no economist, so dont take my word for it

[marsh wind]

Neither am I 😂

Stats do support your statement.

[neon moat]

anyway, always enjoy chatting with you, im off now, take it easy

[marsh wind]

Same, take care

[solid obsidian]

How do I get jupyter to print a sympy Matrix?

Currently I have

init_printing()```
In cell 1 and
```A = Matrix([[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7,8,9]])
A```
In cell 2

[hearty island]

Wrong channel

Try #data-science-and-ml

[solid obsidian]

oh sorry

[steady sandal]

Hi! What does everyone think about free code camp? Was anyone able to get a job after using it?

[ashen elk]

nah, it doesn't help at all for getting jobs - just for learning stuff

[hearty island]

you get jobs by applying

or by connections

I have yet to find any other than the random Textron recruiter that decided to email me

[steady sandal]

Was anyone here able to get a job after learning how to code by themselves?

[ashen elk]

probably not without a degree

maybe freelance tho

[uncut grotto]

@ashen elk don't have degree, and self-taught

[ashen elk]

well, very few have a chance of working without a degree especially in faang

[uncut grotto]

really? most of my collegees also self-taught

are you sure you didn't stuck in the past? it's 2021

[gritty ivy]

There are definitely a large number of people in the industry who are self taught

[ashen elk]

well, I don't know much about it tbh. mind sharing your expereince?

[uncut grotto]

btw the top5 - faang - have a special hiring process for self-taught people: contribute to their open-source projects, and you can present it when you are wanna get a job at them

also the easiest way to get experience without degree, to apply jobs from startups

[hearty island]

you don't need a degree to get a job

but it definitely does help

[uncut grotto]

(maybe you'll make less money, but you can put something in your resume)

[near ocean]

Startup work as entry level or junior sounds super iffy imho

[hearty island]

startups are generally very iify

[uncut grotto]

Google once was a startup

[hearty island]

bruh

don't even bother using that argument

lmao

[near ocean]

Every company starts as a startup lmao

Nobody starts established, thats not how that works

[hearty island]

90% of startups fail 🥴

[uncut grotto]

@hearty island shouldn't even live then? why? you'll fail either way, just give up

nice argument there

[hearty island]

yeah I don't think you should be talking

[near ocean]

Bruh what

[hearty island]

using Google as a benchmark

lmao

[uncut grotto]

@hearty island you're here in the last months, just writing shit on this channel without any irl experience

[hearty island]

if you use Google as an example

I really don't think your evidence is as sound as you act it is

Google is a unicorn among FAANG

I'm just saying not every startup is going to be Google or FAANG as 90% of startups fail

[near ocean]

Selftaught devs exist but i think everytime someone mentions them they should also mention a disclaimer, theyre the exception to the rule

[hearty island]

a lot of self taught people I know get burnt out

and then quit

[vale gale]

With my self-teaching experience before seriously attending college I would say unless you are lucky to have a great mentor to guide you or you are an exceptional self-learner then having a degree for being trained at school is still better
Still my two-cent opinion so it's okay if you disagree

[hearty island]

I'm not even totally self learned

I admire people who can just self learn the way they do

[vale gale]

Me too, self-learning is not just learning by yourself, it's also about challenging your ability to unlearn and relearn

[hearty island]

I use this server a lot to learn

[vale gale]

I notice that when I went to college after self-teaching Python for a year I felt all the whole year I'd not been learning the correct way
So I think mere self-learning without having feedback loops and others' sharing to challenge your learnt knowledge is somehow difficult

[lofty light]

I didn't go to college 😅

[vale gale]

Yeah this server is like I keep getting new knowledge and also questioning if what I already knew is right

[hearty island]

yeah it's a great place for that

[vale gale]

going to college is not the only way and if you managed to self-learn successfully then I truly admire you

[hearty island]

I switched my major bc CS was too hard

and then I realized business was a meme

so I code now

[vale gale]

CS is hard cuz it's not overspecializing
I had a real struggle with Operating Systems in C when I have always loved Python lmao

[ashen elk]

startups are just full of shit people

[vale gale]

It depends, but you learn much better from real corps

[ashen elk]

its like a playground for the dunning-kruger effect

[hearty island]

the startup I worked at was awful

I repeat

awful

[ashen elk]

people who think they're the best and are actaully shite

they seriously think they can compete against big companies

with the most ass ideas ever

[hearty island]

so I worked for this company called Inspirave

their idea was an app that's designed to save you money

and their big budget idea was sending money to people to help them save

it was pathetic

it already existed dude

god knows how they're still in business

[ashen elk]

most startups are bad. the some that are a little good tho can usually get themselves out

like kite for example

it still hasn't got its payment model right, but its service is pretty great

[hearty island]

ideas are so hard to come by

I can't even come up with ideas for my personal projects

idk how these people just come up with ideas

[ashen elk]

actually, its plausible ideas that are hard to come by

[ashen elk]

just do what you like lol

[hearty island]

that is what I mean

[ashen elk]

idk, I never see ideas as something that are "hard to come by"

[hearty island]

"actually, its plausible ideas that are hard to come by"

your words

not mine

[ashen elk]

that was mostly a correction without any injection of my own opinion

but I was just saying I have never looked at ideas like that

[vale gale]

ideas are a lot, it's just that ideas that are truly gonna make differences are hard to come by I think

[hearty island]

that is what I mean

ideas that actually benefit society

are hard to come by

[ashen elk]

I think ideas are just one stage; someone with a great idea may not always execute it properly

[hearty island]

yeah

[vale gale]

agreed

[hearty island]

a money saving app would have worked

if it was implemented better

it wasn't even an "app" it was a web app

like a website

[main thicket]

They don't afaik, they just expect you to have experience elsewhere for self-taught or really good projects. Contributing to their open source projects might be a minority path

Not saying it's harder to get a job there or anything, once you have your first couple years in industry, you're generally about the same level to companies

[main thicket]

It doesn't matter to you as long as the startup pays you for the duration lol

[ashen elk]

I doubt it matters, unless there is some self-learned person here who works in FAANG who can provide some testimony

[ashen elk]

you forego a part of your salary for options

[main thicket]

Most are just average people. Many startups have significantly smarter than average people. It's dependent on the startup

[main thicket]

I know multiple FAANG people who are self taught.

It's really not that uncommon. A bit more so nowadays but in the past it was relatively common

[ashen elk]

so these companies have special processes for those kinds of people?

[main thicket]

Not really special processes

Theres only 2 steps to getting into a company lol

Get an interview, pass the interview. The interview is leetcode based and not having a degree doesn't stop you from it

Getting an interview is harder but you get automatic interviews if you have someone to refer you, or if you find a job elsewhere first (eg startup or smaller company) and build up some experience, that's also a possibility

[ashen elk]

but then if they are without a degree, their credentials must be really good

so degree gives you a crutch for that

[main thicket]

Not really?

It's honestly not that difficult as a concept. If there's evidence this person is as good as someone with a degree, it's worth spending resources on evaluating this person.

Why would you need to be much better than someone with a degree to get hired?

[ashen elk]

idk really, but intuitively it seems like a good fail-safe

[jaunty moat]

Anyone have any ideas for python programs? I want to try to make a long term python program that solves a real world problem :)

[main thicket]

So if this person has worked as a Dev for 2 years already, or someone else is vouching that this person is ready, this person is probably as good as any CS grad and is worth evaluating.

[main thicket]

Companies want good Devs. They cant systematically let good Devs get away from them and join other companies.

If someone is able to teach themselves how to code and get a job, they are probably significantly smarter than the average CS grad

[ashen elk]

so....you recommend not doing a degree, or do you advocate having one?

[ashen elk]

aight

[main thicket]

its a personal choice. Without a degree is going to be a bit harder at the beginning, but you won't spend 4 years paying fees and not working ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ashen elk]

not every problem can be solved with programming

[vale gale]

After all it's about what you actually learn, and yeah if those people are exceptional learners then way to go
I couldn't self-teach cuz I didn't know where to start so I ended up in univ lol~

[main thicket]

The other thing to note with self teaching vs not is self teaching programming is really easy but theory is hard

The more theory and maths heavy roles are going to be hard to reach with self teaching

[vale gale]

agree with this

[uncut grotto]

@main thicket if you or your family don't have the money for degree, go self-taught: but if you have that gigantic sum of money, take a degree

so it's really easy choice

[main thicket]

I mean, yeah that's a good guideline

[uncut grotto]

You can get a your first Bsc. degree for free in my country if your high-school average is over 90%, but I fucked up 😄 went to work at a fuel station, and learnt programming, got my job after a few years in a startup

[vale gale]

that's cool to hear! what's your specialization?

[unborn spindle]

hello peeps

if I have a little personal project that I'm almost done making that just opens CSV or JSON files, does stuff with them, and can output them to JSON or Excel

would that be a good project to put on a resume/LinkedIn

it's like a data handler

and it has lots of functions to clean stuff up

I really wanna start building up my resume/experience and try to get some little developer jobs or something

[vale gale]

If you can clearly states your project's purpose, how you implement, what are the skills that you utilized, etc. then I don't see any problem

[unborn spindle]

interesting

I'm only a college freshman, do you think I can easily find little jobs

the problem is I really want little simple jobs to do to have code projects to do not as my own but it's not that simple lol

[unborn spindle]

purpose: simplify the process of unpacking CSV files or exporting to JSON
implement: implemented to many other projects I've made such as BLANK and also used extensively to explore databases such as the powerlifting.org's database
skills: logging (new to me), ill think of the rest

[vale gale]

I think you can talk to the career center at your school first, usually people have internship around third/fourth year (cuz most recruiters prefer that way when you have concrete knowledge about at least data structures/oop or so and have worked on big projects at school). But there are still some freshman/sophomore got internships if they stand out
You can try to build up your experience and CVs by doing hackathons and joining clubs

[vale gale]

I mean you can have a README.md that describes and organizes its functionalities in details attached to the link leading to your project

[unborn spindle]

yess

OH also implementing git

and I will attach the project as a github link

[vale gale]

Yeah github is a good place to show your projects

In the README.md you can provide what has been said above and the instructions of how to run your program too

[unborn spindle]

definitely

I need to figure out what I need to do to join the coding clubs because there's some kind of club to do with coding but it was really hard to find the details so I kind of gave up on it in the beginning of the year but it's extremely useful so it would be very stupid not to try again

[vale gale]

Besides clubs I usually joined hackathons, you can find hackathons on devpost.com or major league hacking

Hackathons provide more real industry experience I think

[unborn spindle]

what do you actually do in hackathons

[vale gale]

You form a team with other people that have similar interests and skills with you, and work on a project for 36 days hours

It's like no-sleeping lmao

But it's fun and rewarding

I mean 36 hours sorry

[unborn spindle]

oh shoot I really really wanna do that

I was thinking like white hat hacking competitions or something but I would LOVE to do a hackathons

[main thicket]

No sleeping is highly discouraged, pls sleep folks

More than enough time to sleep

[unborn spindle]

I would sleep lol**

lmaoo

[main thicket]

Yeah I've had some super cool projects come out of hackathons

The stuff I usually can't be bothered to work through in my own time

Free food is all the motivation I need

[floral bluff]

hello every one myself is pratheep, recently i completed c,c++ in my semister and due to lockdown i am not able to understand some concepts , i am not able to solve problems, so please help me what are the main concepts used in problem solving(except loops,if statements, and some basics)(tell me complex and imp topics)

[vale gale]

well this is a broad question lmao...problem solving is like solutions for this problem may not be applicable for other problems. And problem-solving comes from your logical thinking though...

the basics besides loops, if/else states then it should be object-oriented programming (class/struct and its inheritance) and data structures (arrays, (doubly) linked lists, trees, etc.)

I would also encourage looking for algorithms for optimization such as dynamic programming, functional programming, brute force, deep search, minimax, etc. and big O time complexity

Oh forgot to mention, functions (void type or specific data type (int, char, vector, etc. in C/C++) if you wanna return something) as well, you cannot write everything just in main

[floral bluff]

i am aware of some topics like(linked list,stack,queus,bigo,some algo, classes,oop like inheritance,polymorphism,encaptulation)

but when iam solving some problem in hacker rank

i am not able to solve

i thought that i am lack in some basics

so i just want all topics which are needed to solve problems

and thanks for your help brother

[floral bluff]

help me bro iam suck in competitive programming.

with half knowledge

[vale gale]

Are you doing C/C++ right now or Python?
Language is not that important in terms of logical thinking but definitely C/C++ might approach differently than Python in terms of syntax and built-in library supports

[dire robin]

hey guys

how do i provide help to others in here

[fossil ruin]

By helping them in the help channels

[uncut grotto]

LMAO

[thick python]

Is learning conversion of decimals ,octals,hexadecimals and binary useful in programming or something related to computer?

[digital fjord]

yes

[hearty island]

hey you changed colors

[vale gale]

if you do operating systems and computer networks then they strongly require it

[thick python]

Okay thanks sir!

Can i code Games with python?

[vale gale]

why not haha?
but it's not my strength, I just had experiences with PyGam

[next jewel]

Is knowing the bare basics in python/django enough to land an internship? I k know this questions gets asked around. Idk why I just feel like its not 'enough'

[thick python]

mhm

[hearty island]

it depends on what projects you made with the "bare basics"

[thick python]

How much Time does Python require to learn

[runic salmon]

does anyone know if python ML and/or AI Engineers have good salaries cause i want to study that when finish secondary school im missing 2 years for university

[runic salmon]

depends on you

if you want to learn a lot and if you have easy learning skills

[thick python]

Okay

[runic salmon]

but it took 2 hours a day for me to learn

and i keep on doing that

since 2018

not always but i do it

[thick python]

I guess I can manage atleast 3 hr a day

If I dont waste my time

[runic salmon]

that is great

[thick python]

I think Python is interesting

[runic salmon]

yesss! and very useful

[thick python]

Thanks For Your Help!

[runic salmon]

yw 🙂

[thick python]

I am going to start Python today from a book i bought

[primal sandal]

Please recommend some YouTube channels to learn Python, I already know the basics, and now I want to learn intermediate stuff

[runic salmon]

if you need anything just feel free to ask me

[primal sandal]

Also is it better to learn from a book or youtube?

[thick python]

Do u have any suggestions for a beginner?

[brave stirrup]

Is there any ide with the functionality of creating .apk files ? Can we directly create android apps using python

[thick python]

Book i guess

[runic salmon]

for me no youtube and google is better

but depends on your concentration too

[primal sandal]

I've already tried free code camp

[thick python]

utube is fast but book covers deep

[runic salmon]

yap

[thick python]

and u can remember easily

[primal sandal]

But I didn't like it much 😅

[lucid arrow]

@runic salmon Can u recommend me some beginners tip

[runic salmon]

programming with mosh

[steep garden]

Can u give some good book names?

[thick python]

What are some suggestions u ll give to a beginner lucaa

[steep garden]

I'm beginner

[runic salmon]

for learning python yotuube

[lucid arrow]

Ok👍

[runic salmon]

to first learn the basics

for exampl

[thick python]

So should i learn about Interpreter , assembler,loader and linker stuff too?

[primal sandal]

I already know the basics

I'm looking forward to learning stuff like lamda, list comprehensions and stuff

And Programming with Mosh, is a great channel for beginners, It helped me a lot!

[runic salmon]

importing libraries
if statements
variables
usage of libraries
reserved words
all the rest that is missing
and last of all databases cause its kinda difficult depending on you

[runic salmon]

@lucid arrow

[lucid arrow]

My school curriculum has coding

[thick python]

Okay

[novel copper]

get into some projects in a topic that interests you/what you want to program (now or in the future). You will pick up the knowledge along the journey if you know the basics already

[brave stirrup]

If you want to go deep into understanding how your program runs then yes! Otherwise just know Interpreter as it is main.. acts as a compiler

[hearty island]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[hearty island]

Automate the boring stuff is great

[primal sandal]

I did make kne project myself

[primal sandal]

That's selenium, right?

[thick python]

Thanks a lot lucaaa! and Fiwalawisk!

[hearty island]

what?

[runic salmon]

I live in Argentina and in my country coding is not a popular career so my school doesnt

[hearty island]

Automate the boring stuff is a book for python

[runic salmon]

yw :0

[primal sandal]

Okayy!

Thanks!

[hearty island]

yeah it teaches selenium

but it also teaches a lot of other stuff

[primal sandal]

Okayy, does it teach lambda and stuff?

List comprehensions?

[near ocean]

Lambda isnt something you use a lot in python

[hearty island]

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/

why don't you take a look yourself

but I don't think it does

list comprehensions aren't that bad

but it's not necessarily taught along with the basics

[summer roost]

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/controlflow.html#lambda-expressions

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions

[primal sandal]

Thanks a lot guys!

[summer roost]

When you know what you want to learn, the official tutorial that's part of the Python docs is great.

[primal sandal]

I don't know what I should learn

[summer roost]

Well, you asked about lambda, and about list comprehensions. You can learn both of those in 20 minutes total, I'm sure.

[hearty island]

uh idk if you're new to Python

but if you are you should really focus on the basics before you start doing lambdas and list comps

[summer roost]

True. But if you understand regular functions, you can learn lambda functions. They're just like regular functions, except with some extra restrictions and some different syntax.

And if you understand for loops, if statements, and appending to lists, you can understand list comprehensions. They're the same pieces, just organized differently and more tersely.

[hearty island]

yeah I'm assuming he doesn't

[summer roost]

It may not be the most important thing to learn, but neither of them is a complicated topic, and you don't need a super deep background in Python to learn them.

I actually think the official Python tutorial is pretty great. The biggest downside might be that it moves pretty fast. But it does cover a lot of material without being overly verbose.

It's a nice middle ground between reference documentation and books designed to teach the language.

[hearty island]

lambda and list comp isn't hard to learn if you already have the foundational knowledge

I was assuming he didn't

[summer roost]

I was assuming they do, since they said they know the basics. 🤷

[hearty island]

oh

ok

yeah they should be fine then

[vapid jay]

Selam

Nasılsınız bugün

في مشكلة

[hearty island]

English please

[vapid jay]

Ok sorry

this server is bad

bye

[hearty island]

🥴

[vale gale]

seriously...

[primal sandal]

I do know

I know all the basics

[runic salmon]

???

what

i'll speak in spanish

nah just joking

[summer roost]

Please don't feed the trolls.

[vapid jay]

I am new in python and I am having a problem that I do not know what the cause of it is, can anyone help me ?

[novel copper]

Python 3 doens't have print function without brackets. That should solve it. So print "X" change to print("X") *.format() within brackets

[vapid jay]

Thank you !

[novel copper]

https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html

[vapid jay]

will take a look

thanks anyway ❤️

[novel copper]

Personally, I use more f-string formatting. If you would be interested
print(f"Your first name is {first_name}, your second name is {second_name}")
*if first_name and second_name are your variables

[true harness]

huh, does ipython suppress the warnings?

usually it'll say something like "missing parentheses in call to 'print'"

[celest ravine]

is anyone know about GSOC

[vapid jay]

I thought I could do it only in one way

but looks like not

[celest ravine]

after completing python basic language what should i learn next

[hearty island]

do some projects 😃

[celest ravine]

machine learning or web development

[hearty island]

Like hangman

or Rock Paper Scissors

[celest ravine]

from where i will git project can u tell me

*get

[hearty island]

You don’t get projects… you make projects

[celest ravine]

so how would i get ideal that i am ready to learn another language

[hearty island]

you can learn another language whenever you want to

[true harness]

it's not very useful to only learn a tiny bit of a language though

[hearty island]

Yeah

projects would be a good next step

if you look at automate the boring stuff it suggests projects to do

I only wish Al Sweigart wrote some books on ds/algos

[neon moat]

there are plenty of good books on ds/algos

[vale gale]

Can you recommend one? I mean I have read many books about DS/AI/ML and they seem to just write the source code without explaining why. So I feel I have to keep digging the docs myself to understand what the logic is behind...

[hearty island]

for DS/AI/ML?

or for DS/algos

[vale gale]

Both if you can

[neon moat]

why are you learning DS/Algos? if its for an interview then watch this

https://youtu.be/vFOw_m5zNCs?t=295

I've read cracking the coding interview and thats a very good book imo

[hearty island]

lmao CTCI is not a “teaching” book

it’s more of a problems book

[neon moat]

have you read it?

[hearty island]

Yes

[neon moat]

well i dont know what you mean by 'teaching' and 'problems'

it shows you common algos, which you can then do extra research on if you wanted to go deeper into it

[hearty island]

oh so if it goes 2 pages into linked lists

it's considered teaching

imo a book should teach you it from the ground up

CTCI is not the book for that

[neon moat]

i literally have zero clue what you mean, what do you mean by 'the ground up'? the book shows you what linked lists are, how is that not teaching?

[hearty island]

the book shows creating a linked list

and deleting nodes from a linked list

that's it

and then it just shows you problems

[neon moat]

does the book stop you from going on the internet and looking into linked lists further?

no

[hearty island]

wow

a wild goose hunt for an implementation

sounds great

[neon moat]

i have no clue what you are talking about, if you dont like CTCI then fine, but many others than have passed actual FANG interviews would disagree with you

[hearty island]

CTCI has good problems

[true harness]

ctci...cracking the coding interview?

[neon moat]

yes

[hearty island]

you should really learn the fundamentals before you dive right into CTCI

an opposite would be something like Grokking

that uses big picture concepts so you understand the concept before you code it

[neon moat]

the video literally says that...but you just jumped to attack CTCI lmao

thats why i shared the vid

[hearty island]

I'm not attacking anything

I'm just stating the facts

[true harness]

*your opinions

[neon moat]

^

[hearty island]

oh so stating an opinion is now considered attacking?

[neon moat]

in any event, whether you read CTCI or grokking algos first or second doesnt matter, anyone who is serious going for a FANG position should be reading them cover to cover more than once

[hearty island]

another opinion is that there's multiple good resources to learn from

some are more implementation focused than others

[neon moat]

yeah i can agree with that, but its all preference, if several ways all end up with the same result what does it matter

[hearty island]

ok

[neon moat]

would you recommend anything other than grokking?

[hearty island]

well it's not a book but Udacity's DS/Algos course

only problem is that it's in Python 2.7

https://runestone.academy/runestone/books/published/pythonds3/index.html

I like this book

CLRS is good

if you can read big textbooks it's good

ofc this is all my opinion tho

I have yet to find the "perfect" book for me

I don't think there is a "perfect" book out there

unfortunately no book is going to spend pages upon pages going through implementations

[shadow moss]

Still want to point out that should work on other stuff as well that’s more focused. Getting hyper focused on FAANG can leave you jobless if they reject you.

[hearty island]

I'm not focused on FAANG

[shadow moss]

Esp if your a weaker candidate up front (entry level, non college grad)

I saw FAANG mentioned, dropping that recommendation

[hearty island]

oh

you're talking to someone else

my bad

sorry

I just enjoy learning

that is why I do ds/algos

[marsh wind]

When you talk grokking...

is it this? Grokking Algorithms - An illustrated guide for programmers and other curious people

@hearty island

[hearty island]

yes

[marsh wind]

cool, found it, maybe i'll revisit some bits of DS/A one day 🙂

[hearty island]

it won't give you all the implementations you want you just have to find them on your own

but you probably know them so

[marsh wind]

tbh I remember very little of DS/A

like, we did that in high school

so I remember some ideas, etc

[proper junco]

Hello, I'm curently an high school student, and I would like to ask some question about being a dev to professionals (like how did you become a dev, what do you like / dislike about the job, etc)

Is anyone interested ?

[vapid jay]

if anyone is a software engineer or dev can i ask you some questions about what your career is like?

[neon moat]

yea I've gone through that resource, i thought it was good

[molten ibex]

why those companies require college degrees for internship?

[hearty island]

it unfortunately skimps out on heapify and heap sort idk why

it's funny bc they do merge sort, quick sort, bubble sort, insertion sort

even shell sort

[true harness]

heap sort is trivial if you understand heaps

[hearty island]

I do understand heaps

there isn't really much to know

a left child is the parent's index times 2 plus 1

a right child is the parent's index times 2 plus 2

parent to child would be (i-1)//2

a min heap means the root is the minimum value

[true harness]

maybe we should move to #algos-and-data-structs lol

[hearty island]

ok

[true harness]

but there's more to heaps than just knowing the structure

[main thicket]

Because internships are meant for people in training to provide a direct hiring pipeline for people who can't work full time just yet

An internship for someone who can already work full time is meaningless. They want to get the smart people who want to work there after they graduate

[main thicket]

Heaps tend to be rare ish in interviews, and when you do use them, you generally can just say "I'm gonna assume a Heap data structure exists" and just use that

[true harness]

"create a heap for me"
"i'm just gonna assume it exists"

[hearty island]

what does it mean to say you assume it exists

like you don't create it yourself?

[main thicket]

As in, they won't ask about heaps specifically, a heap will be part of the optimal solution for a particular problem. If you know you should use the heap, you can say "I'm assuming this is provided to me by a library or something" because the intricacies of implementing a heap are too much to get into to solve a problem

So you can assume it exists and use it's standard operational methods

[hearty island]

oh

ok

well

I only have like two methods to learn now

so it's not that bad

[main thicket]

This actually happens fairly often, that don't ask about advanced data structures, they just ask about questions that can benefit from them

I've said I'm gonna assume tries are implemented, etc a couple times

[ashen elk]

you forgot scholarships lol

granted, they are hard to get. but it does show some mettle

[ashen elk]

ohhh, I always wanted to ask that. and what do you think about PhD internships? they kinda seem like exploitation

you are getting as much work done, in less wages

[main thicket]

PhD internships are great. Getting industry connections and experience in research for when you graduate your PhD

PhD internships are closer to "visiting researcher" status than exploited worker status. They're generally research based, not productive application level work

Also PhD interns in fancy fields in engineering and CS get paid pretty well, especially relative to their PhD stipends

[carmine rock]

yall is queens, york, or ryerson co op the best for comp sci

[summer girder]

God bless python

[primal sandal]

Hey all, what's the best way to learn algorithms?

Any good YouTube channel or a good book?

[main thicket]

Depends on what level you want to learn it at. Intro interview level -> CTCI, proper uni level depth -> CLRS

[primal sandal]

Intro level, I'm in high school

I'm preparing for an Olympiad

[ashen elk]

your olympiads have algorithms?

[primal sandal]

This is the syllabus

[primal sandal]

Yep😭

[ashen elk]

nice

[primal sandal]

So from where should I learn algorithms?

[ashen elk]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[warm mist]

hello

[verbal jewel]

מעבח

עימהיענת

געח

[dapper jackal]

can I control a Python snake with Python?

[hearty island]

@ashen elk that has nothing for algorithms 🙂

[rancid rock]

Can anyone with python experience recommend a python course that has some type of respected certificate that i can use in a resume

[hearty island]

@rancid rock I applied to a company and they were like do you have any certificates?

and I was like no

and then they said oh yeah they don’t really matter anyways

Hot take: anyone can sit through a course and copy code from GitHub and then put the certificate on their resume

[rancid rock]

alright, what about doing courses if your ahead of your programming class but youre too lazy to set goals for yourself

[hearty island]

what are you interested in?

[rancid rock]

python.....

[rancid rock]

jk, server development, backend, but my dream job is to make and setup servers for businesses, like pick the parts and write the backend code and stuff

[hearty island]

I don't know much but that sounds like networking

[vestal ridge]

should I go for CS? I have always wanted to take CS and get a degree, but the problem is that maybe I'm not talented enough to do it :/ Although what I do have is passion for AI, and Machine Learning

[hearty island]

#networks message

^some resources on networking to get you started

but I don't really know so if anyone wants to they can chip in too

[hearty island]

you don't need to be "talented"

hard work can get you very far

I know it seems like some people just start coding and they instantly know everything but they're rare exceptions

[blazing berry]

so i want to start learning other languages such as c, and improve my python, so what are some methods you reccomend?(im currently taking a comp sci principles course in high school so i am pretty familiar with js, and dont really want to learn that all over again)

[hearty island]

wow your CSP class actually teaches a language?

I'm kind of impressed

[blazing berry]

lmao

yeah its an AP course so we even have to submit an app as a final project

[thin finch]

I agree

[hearty island]

yeah for our CSP class we had to submit a game in psuedocode

they could've just taught us pygame or something

but no

[blazing berry]

ours is just like a simple app, not necessarily a game

im thinking of doing a metronome

[hearty island]

nice

it was bad really

I should have just taken AP CS

[primal sandal]

Yeah... Could you please suggest some other material?

[hearty island]

CLRS: good if you like big textbooks

Udacity's DS/algos course: good, but it's in Python 2.7 + skimps out on implementation at times

Grokking: good, but it's in Python 2.7 + skimps out on implementation at times

CTCI: you'd need some strong knowledge on the concepts beforehand bc it covers everything in like 2-5 pages each also it's in C/C++

[primal sandal]

Okayy, is there any good YouTube channel for algorithms?

[hearty island]

yeah

[primal sandal]

I prefer YouTube videos over books

[hearty island]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmJz2DV1a3yfgrR7GqRtUUA

there's this guy

https://www.youtube.com/c/MichaelSambol/videos

and this guy

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZCFT11CWBi3MHNlGf019nw/videos

and also this guy

but his videos are pretty long ^

but that's like the whole point

[primal sandal]

Okayy, thanks a lot!

You've been of great help!

[hearty island]

yeah no problem

[primal sandal]

Also which of these concepts should I learn first?

[hearty island]

big O