career-advice

[leaden jasper]

I can't tell if you're making that term up or not >_>

[summer roost]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumping_lemma_for_regular_languages

[delicate bane]

i think grad school is only really worth it in 1) where your company is paying for it (like you and my cloud friend's case) or 2) youre coming from a dif field (like me)

[main thicket]

(*for classic SWE)

[delicate bane]

right

if i could do grad school in my original field and have a stable job market afterwards, id seriously consider it

[main thicket]

Which field?

[leaden jasper]

"In mathematics, informal logic, and ..." alright I'm out. I just truly could never get myself to care about CS theory down to the logic level.

[delicate bane]

secret

[summer roost]

I am way, way better at software engineering than I am at CS theory 😄

[delicate bane]

question

[little trellis]

Always good when software engineering interviews ask CS theory questions haha

[delicate bane]

we know cs isnt software eng. how come uni's dont have bachelors of software engineering? or is that a thing? i know masters of SWE are a thing

[little trellis]

I guess it makes sense when CS is the degree most interviewers took

[main thicket]

To be fair, so are the vast majority of CS majors.

[delicate bane]

[summer roost]

but, they have to, because they're trying to pick the best people out of a bunch of predominantly BS CS holders

[main thicket]

They do in Canada, Aus, NZ, and some other countries

[delicate bane]

is it just a culture thing?

[summer roost]

I know of a few US schools with it.

[delicate bane]

[summer roost]

it's definitely not as common here, though. I wish it were more common.

[little trellis]

Very good point

[main thicket]

The US employment market seems very conservative wrt adding new fields

[delicate bane]

maybe this is one of those moments that shows how slow academia can be

at least from dif countries..?

[little trellis]

The quality of conversation here has improved significantly.

[delicate bane]

i dont want to ask how it was previously

[main thicket]

That's not an academia thing lol. Academia doesn't care about what majors exist. It's 2 things:

• software engineering is for the most part not a field of research for people
• the majors offered are made by university admins based on what degrees high schoolers will enrol into

[delicate bane]

i think market trends and patterns are interesting to discuss

[little trellis]

It was chaos before

[delicate bane]

what do you think goes into those decisions that admin makes?

thats very interesting

[leaden jasper]

Fun chatting with you all, but I am off to bed~

[delicate bane]

gn

[lucid vapor]

Good night kutie!

[main thicket]

Market research into what sort of majors are rising in popularity, what high schoolers want to apply for and would like to study specifically, and what they have a faculty to teach

[delicate bane]

interesting. sounds constraining

[summer roost]

"what they have a faculty to teach" is a big part of it, for sure.

[delicate bane]

then they have to think about recruitment

[main thicket]

The truth is, for high schoolers and the general population, computer science = anything that happens on computers, CS has already been standardised as the degree for Software Dev. Job markets discriminate against new programs heavily in the US. And they don't have a faculty that focuses on SWE research

[delicate bane]

true bc the SWE that would do research are in industry

and at big companies

[main thicket]

SWE research would be research in design patterns and paradigms and such. That sort of stuff isn't very academically interesting to most profs, and even if they came up with better things, industry does its own thing and wouldn't use it

Some companies do research software engineering though

Look at Microsoft's RISE group

[delicate bane]

this is one of those intersections that are similar to other fields like biotech or pharmaceutical research

but i guess even those fields lean on academia more

[main thicket]

I wouldn't say that's similar at all

[delicate bane]

since its more industry leaning?

[little trellis]

Interesting, I've found some of the recent books on design patterns in machine learning pretty fascinating but I can understand why most professors wouldn't want to do research in that.

[main thicket]

Biotech and pharma research are heavily scientific, universities are already heavily engaged in that.

Anything developed that can be used is already used, just takes time

[delicate bane]

hmm i cant think of another field thats similar to software engineering then

its too different

[main thicket]

Software engineering is significantly less scientific and companies wouldn't listen to research even if it was available

[delicate bane]

very applied

[summer roost]

research on new programming languages would fit better as SWE research than CS research, most likely.

[delicate bane]

research or development or both?

[delicate bane]

maybe business research? thats pretty applied

[main thicket]

Most programming language research in academia on fancy properties and mathematical formalisms etc. The actually used languages are developed in industry with little research

[summer roost]

both, honestly. but lots of languages get their beginnings from university research departments.

[summer roost]

well, yes, today - but it doesn't need to be that way.

historically, lots of useful languages came out of academia.

[delicate bane]

open source software?

[main thicket]

Software engineering is arguably not really engineering, at the very least in the traditional research. It's more of a craft than applied science and you can't really compare it to engineering/science research

[summer roost]

definitely true.

[delicate bane]

true

its its own animal

[main thicket]

That was back when academia was the main industry. The main use of computers was academics, scientists and engineers

[delicate bane]

oh man. how the times have changed

🧓

[little trellis]

Definitely feel like we have more in common with design

[delicate bane]

now it feels like industry is definitely influencing academia

ed tech revolution when

[summer roost]

That's a fair point. There was much more dogfooding of the languages then than there would be now.

[delicate bane]

design as in general design principles or design as in architecture?

[little trellis]

It also seems like there is less of an appetite for the government to fund scientific endeavors in general

[little trellis]

Principles I would say

The idea of developing general guidelines and ways of doing things.

[main thicket]

Right wing popularism has definitely driven down scientific funding, and industry research has been moving more from R to shorter term D

On the bright side, my research centre got a nice boost due to Covid

[summer roost]

CS degrees teach very little software architecture, and very little software design beyond GoF design patterns. And very little distributed systems design, for instance. And not much networking. And maybe one class on databases, tops, which often doesn't cover what indexes are and why they're important, and instead focuses entirely on relational algebra

relational algebra is cool, but is not a thing you need to know in order to use a database. You do need to know how an index works, and it's a travesty they don't teach that.

[main thicket]

Reminder that university isn't meant to be a vocational job program

[delicate bane]

yeah a decent uni would maybe have those classes but probably at the graduate level

[delicate bane]

this is true

[little trellis]

Yeah, it's pretty unfair to send someone out into the world in the field not having a good handle on arguable the most important technology of the job.

[delicate bane]

theres 2 paths

academia vs. industry

some go on to do research

[main thicket]

Grad subjects would be like "we've dropped all pretense of having applications, this is now a maths course on abstract relational algebra"

[delicate bane]

also true

[little trellis]

lol

[summer roost]

I think that depends greatly on the country. In the US, universities definitely are the vocational training program that most directly leads to an industry job as a software developer.

[delicate bane]

here are these proofs youll never use in your life

bc why not

[summer roost]

It's pretty much either a CS degree for an approximate guarantee of landing a job, versus a series of bootcamps for a chance of landing a job.

[main thicket]

In the US, universities are treated* like vocational training programs

[little trellis]

I think the act of learning how to do proofs is valuable in the field but definitely not the memorization of them.

[main thicket]

You can't pretend a university is a vocational program until it's structured vastly differently, where faculty isn't a bunch of researchers asking for research grants

[delicate bane]

i think other places do it better tho, but i guess i cant say that i speak from experience. it just SEEMS that way lol

[delicate bane]

yeah its more of the critical thinking and logic skills though that are translatable

[little trellis]

To spin the question. Would universities be better off acting more as a vocational program? I think there could be more room for both.

[summer roost]

I mean - if the students enter the program in order to improve their chances of getting a job, and companies preferentially hire from the pool of people who have completed the program, then it is a vocational training program. Even if it's an accidental, emergent, poorly designed one.

[main thicket]

There should be separate teaching institutions

[delicate bane]

the problem is there is TWO competing interests. those going onto higher education/academia vs. those going into industry

[little trellis]

There is probably more room for something like an undergraduate length bootcamp

[delicate bane]

very different life goals

and academia is obv biased towards research

[little trellis]

I feel like there would be harm in isolating one from the other too much

[summer roost]

^ heh, this is duck typing for vocational training, it occurs to me.

[delicate bane]

i agree honestly. maybe have a split path system?

where your first two years are the same, then you choose the academia path vs the industry path?

[sudden quartz]

cool

but research happens in both

[main thicket]

You need a separate institute. A software dev trade school with a teaching and vocation specific focus. Your teachers are people with experience in industry, your assessments and exams are projects, your teachers are compensated and judged based on their teaching.

Unlike universities, where it's a bunch of researchers applying to research grants, hired for research, with teaching being 40% of their responsibilities alongside research supervision, service, etc

[little trellis]

Something along those lines. Or just offer more practitioner focused classes.

[summer roost]

teachers are compensated and judged based on their teaching
Oh what a wonderful world that would be.

[delicate bane]

💀

"in an ideal world"

hey we are just hypothesizing here so might as well design the perfect system

[main thicket]

Whether or not something is a vocational school depends on whether or not it offers vocational education.

[little trellis]

A problem is that it is difficult to create university curriculum for such things

[delicate bane]

You need a separate institute. A software dev trade school with a teaching and vocation specific focus. Your teachers are people with experience in industry, your assessments and exams are projects, your teachers are compensated and judged based on their teaching.

do you think in the future, companies would take up this model?

or is that not profitable enough?

[little trellis]

They already have to some extent.

[sudden quartz]

some universities already have that to some extent

[delicate bane]

right? its interesting

[little trellis]

It could be profitable if done right. For now it seems to be secluded to the companies with money to burn.

[summer roost]

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... The training that a CS degree offers you is sufficient to land you an industry job. That is vocational education.

[little trellis]

The ones that are facing a significant supply shortage

[summer roost]

it may not be good vocational education, but...

[delicate bane]

there just needs to be a way to make it significantly more profitable before other companies decide to do the same i guess

[main thicket]

Companies would be hesitant at first. But a similar institution supported by 4 or 5 big software companies including G, MS, etc offering 2-4 year diplomas. Others would start adopting

[delicate bane]

[delicate bane]

like a partnership? that would lessen the cost for sure

[main thicket]

Partnership involving both financial support, plus direct pipeline to graduates (and interns) that's beneficial for both the school and companies

[delicate bane]

and increase acceptance of diplomas of such program if they have those names behind it

[little trellis]

I believe something along those lines has been proposed. Even just large companies declaring what online courses they recognize as holding weight would help at very little cost of their own.

[main thicket]

I don't know anything non-bootcamp style that exists

[delicate bane]

i have heard something similar

not online courses but certificates so maybe not as much weight rn but maybe in the future

[main thicket]

I mean places like Digipen do exist

[little trellis]

I think we have a while until anything serious is developed in that area.

[main thicket]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiPen_Institute_of_Technology

It's more vocational focused and is Microsoft supported in Redmond. It's got good acceptance for gamedev etc

[little trellis]

Very interesting

[delicate bane]

singapore campus

looks cool

[summer roost]

Sounds like a pokemon rip-off

[main thicket]

Was my first reaction when I heard it too lol

[main thicket]

You in Singapore or?

[summer roost]

I hadn't heard of it though. Looks cool.

[delicate bane]

no i just think singapore is an interesting case-study

[little trellis]

Seems to have good rankings in the game dev world

A tough world that is

[delicate bane]

they are extremely tech + business focused

[main thicket]

Lots of engineering too

[delicate bane]

take a look at this

its a certificate so idk how much weight itll really have but looks like G is trying to do something

"130 companies"

[main thicket]

Unless it's an at least 2 year full time diploma, it's not going to be taken seriously

Especially with the name "certificate"

[delicate bane]

maybe its just a mini-job market kind of deal

[little trellis]

Yeah the google cert program is very cool. It makes sense as there is a supply issue in those areas so they might as well try to mint their own.

[delicate bane]

who knows. we shall see

[little trellis]

They say they will consider them equivalent to normal degrees but I don't know any of the details for how they're handling it in practice.

[delicate bane]

maybe its like those they hire will be junior junior developers

they should just bring back apprenticeships at this rate

[little trellis]

I've never heard of anyone getting hired with one and I figure that would be all over Linkedin

[main thicket]

Go to Germany. Software apprentice ships from high school are common there

[delicate bane]

germany knows where its at

theyre one of the leading ones in terms of AI education in the EU i think

let me check

[main thicket]

UK and Switzerland probs

Definitely UK first

[little trellis]

I've worked with a good number of talented data scientists from Slovenia. Not sure what's going on over there but they seem to get it.

[main thicket]

Should see the Devs from Romania

[delicate bane]

ig this is non-UK data so we cant say

[little trellis]

You do have the benefit of cheaper education in Europe

[main thicket]

Specialised master's doesn't correspond to stuff necessarily. Some countries just have it in their culture to have super specialised master's

[delicate bane]

its also number of programs. doesnt really say anything about quality, true

[main thicket]

I suspect if you replaced AI with any major field, the graph will barely change in rankings

[delicate bane]

[main thicket]

For reference, the German and Dutch school education system starts specialising and splitting off at like the age of 10

They just love specialisation there

[delicate bane]

wild

opposite of a renaissance education

[sudden quartz]

that is how it should be

America is designed to leave you unfit for jobs without a degree

[delicate bane]

i think specialization is better for the average individual

at the same time, i can see generalization being good for some

especially if your field requires creative thinking

[little trellis]

Interesting conversations y’all. Signing of for the night. ✌️

[delicate bane]

g'night buddy

[main thicket]

That's why you become me and specialise in everything

[delicate bane]

whats that concept in learning called

hmm

[main thicket]

T shaped?

[delicate bane]

interleaving

thats what it was

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-interleaving-effect-mixing-it-up-boosts-learning/

[sudden quartz]

Raggy specializes in being foolish

cant match any real compsci major in sofrware

[delicate bane]

and yes T-shaped was another term that came to mind

[main thicket]

Bruh what's your problem?

[delicate bane]

i think these type of individuals make the best leaders tho

since they know multiple domain knowledges

best at building teams

[hearty island]

Why are you calling him foolish

[delicate bane]

ig El*n Musk is an example

[hearty island]

he’s pretty knowledgeable if you ask me

[delicate bane]

that guy knows multiple domains

[hearty island]

yeah

He has degrees in economics and physics

I think???

[main thicket]

Elon Musk doesn't know much lol, he's a CEO with no experience in engineering

[delicate bane]

even if i dont agree with everything he says doesnt mean hes not knowledgable

[hearty island]

does knowing economics and physics mean you can run a company??

idk about that

[delicate bane]

yeah but he can pull from different domains i think thats his advantage

probs not good at engineering itself

[sudden quartz]

he is good at engineering

He does a lot of work himself

[main thicket]

He doesn't have the knowledge, he hires people that does

[delicate bane]

yes i dont disagree

having a tiny bit of knowledge in a domain will help in hiring the right people

or at least knowing whats important in a field

[sudden quartz]

its more than a tiny bit

he is good at it

[main thicket]

This is off-topic

[delicate bane]

true. good place to peace out

bye folks

[toxic anchor]

What do you like?
A programming hub certificate or a mimo certificate for job?

[frail crane]

what do you need for learning data science or machine learning

like what do you need to learn:
I know some basic programming languages like - Python and C++

I would also like to improve my loops ability, any idea how to be better? at for loops

[bronze dock]

Hello python coders! This is a bit of a stretch to ask here but I would like some critiques since I'm doing some interview prep and logic comes in to play so I think you all have the right brains!

I've had a few interviews (going into biomedical research) post-bachelors but I know I need to have more concrete/confident goals/focuses to make myself a better candidate. I thought today about what I am passionate about and found out that I really enjoy analyzing how data is transferred. (broad subject but that's the appeal!)

It can be applied to a bunch of different scenarios:

1. data transfer between people (how to have an efficient conversation)
2. data transfer between person & machine (how to code good)
3. data transfer between machine & machine (how neurons transfer information to each other/Christmas lights signal to the next light to change colors in time)

I started making a "how to get data transferred efficiently" flowchart and ended up with these "4 C's of data transfer":

I'd appreciate if anyone has any other general interview tips (or even when a good time to bring something like this up in an interview). Is this a topic to bring up during the "Tell me about yourself" question? Or is it more situational?

[last folio]

lets discuss

[bronze dock]

Sure! (Will be back in the morning, it's late)

[grizzled tundra]

Wait, Ed Sheeran is in the group!

[urban echo]

Hey, I’m interested in AI and ml but i really don’t know where to start, I think have a pretty good grasp of python, but I really wanna get into AI

[tepid folio]

Hey guys what all comes under data science engineering? Do you guys think it's gonna be worth it ? I'm kinda confused whether I should be taking cs/data science/AI...do you guys think the placements different in them?

[crimson raptor]

then y dont u just talk normaly?

like everyone else

[true harness]

@weak orchid hey, please don't spam

[vapid jay]

!warn 744888991408455781 Spamming to get voice-verified defeats the point of the voice gate. You can still join voice channels without being verified; so do not do so again.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @weak orchid.

[hearty island]

What are you supposed to do when the job asks you to provide references?

But you literally have no one 😃

This is a serious question

This one requires an internship to get an internship 😐

It’s a catch 22

how do you get experience when getting experience itself requires experience

@vapid jay !resources

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[hearty island]

automate the boring stuff is good

[crimson raptor]

gzus

thats tough

[hearty island]

and here come y'all like oh but it says "preferably"

well most of the internships I apply to that say stuff like that I never get accepted

[crimson raptor]

good luck man

[hearty island]

yeah

I just look at internships to soak up the time between ds/algos

[little trellis]

It’s okay to be frustrated with the interview process. It is frustrating, especially for entry level.

[hearty island]

yeah they say it's "preferred"

but they really do want someone with that experience

[crimson raptor]

every company prefers people with experience, i can imagine a internship needing some sort of experience, but that's specific af

[hearty island]

yeah I'm fine with the skills they posted

I'd prefer if they listed Python

but I already know some Java

[crimson raptor]

ofc, it's beautiful

[hearty island]

this whole previous internship required is what I don't like

[crimson raptor]

this internship is for what?

[hearty island]

STTD Software Dev Intern for Intel Corporation

do companies just have a thing of not posting the pay information

[crimson raptor]

it's probably so that they drag the attention of those who actually knw and don't waste time w/ randoms

[hearty island]

well I need pay

otherwise what's the point of working for free when I could make $15 at Walmart

[crimson raptor]

true

but to know the payment prob need to contact them and if u have their attention, they will give u the specs abt working there

at least i think so

like, intel wouldnt do internships for nothing right?

[hearty island]

idk

I've seen other companies give payment information along with internship postings

[low orchid]

can Someone help me with a BOT??

[hearty island]

wrong channel

try #discord-bots

[vapid jay]

@hearty island not saying it was a discord bot

[lucid vapor]

What is it?

[hearty island]

well sorry

they weren't very specific

[ocean ledge]

are internships actually necessary though?

bunch of people i know, including myself landed jobs without them

[summer roost]

I consider my internships to be the single most valuable thing I took away from my university.

[hearty island]

internships are very necessary

what are people going to do when the entry level job itself requires experience?

[summer roost]

Of course they're not necessary, but they're extremely valuable. They let students figure out what areas they do and don't like working in while they still have time to change their concentrations, they give students opportunities to learn important real world skills that employers want and universities don't teach, they allow offsetting the cost of your degree with the pay, and they make it likely your first job after college will pay you better, both because you have more relevant experience for them to benefit from, and because you've already learned how much you can make as an intern, giving you a head start towards determining whether or not employers are willing to pay you above market value

[hearty island]

in other words internship good

[summer roost]

Yeah. And they give you contacts at a company that you can reach out to when applying for full time jobs. Lots of people go back to companies that they interned for.

Of course people can get jobs without ever having an internship, but having had one makes you more likely to get a better, higher paying job that you enjoy more, all things being equal.

[leaden jasper]

Unis with co-ops are still being undervalued imo. Co-ops are so good

[hearty island]

isn't Waterloo like really famous for their co-ops

do you get paid for co-ops

[summer roost]

Mine was a co-op uni. The classes were meh (pretty average, in retrospect), but the co-ops were the great.

[hearty island]

were they paid

[summer roost]

Mine all were, yeah.

[hearty island]

nice

[leaden jasper]

Especially when there are so many people with bachelor's, having relevant co-op/internship experience goes such a long way from separating yourself from the crowd for the really competitive places

It's so nice to go to a university where they actively help you get that experience

[summer roost]

For CS and engineering, internships are almost certainly paid. Unpaid ones exist, but they're rare compared to paid ones, from what I've seen. And in the US, there's actually quite a few legal hoops a company needs to go through to have unpaid interns.

[hearty island]

I have seen some interesting unpaid internships

for CS people

basically if your work does anything to benefit the company then you deserve to be compensated

[leaden jasper]

Anyhow, back to work~

[summer roost]

Like, if a company has unpaid interns, they have a legal responsibility to not benefit from that intern's work. It's a bit more complicated than that, and it's a multi point test, but that's the gist of it. If the company treats an unpaid intern like they'd treat any other employee, it's a violation of federal labor laws.

[hearty island]

yeah

so what does the theoretical unpaid intern even do then?

coffee runs?

[summer roost]

No, definitely not. That would absolutely be a violation of labor laws.

They need to be teaching you things. You need to be costing them money, essentially, for it to be legal.

[hearty island]

but they didn't teach me anything either

lmao

[delicate bane]

i feel like this is more of the norm in EU

and im jealous

[crimson raptor]

what is co-ops?

i'm lost

[summer roost]

https://career.vt.edu/experience/ceip/ceip-internship-coop.html

My undergrad program was 5 years, with 3 mandatory six month internships over it.

[burnt lion]

Hi all, quick question - I've been at a my first job, at a big n for 18 months and I have an offer from a startup I'm really excited about. My worry is that I have a non traditional background, and the reason I joined the big n was to get a rubber stamp on my resume. I'm worried that 18 months is not long enough for that rubber stamp. Should I decline the startup offer for future job security?

[summer roost]

How non traditional?

[burnt lion]

@summer roost not much, just a non-cs major. Though I mention it because it was really tough for me to get consider in interviews out of college - I sent over 200 applications and got only like 7 interviews

I'm scared of that happening again if the startup fails

that's why the rubber stamp of a big N is worthwhile to me, knowing that i'll at least be able to get interviews in the future

[summer roost]

18 months and then a move to do similar work at another company wouldn't worry me too much, personally, but it is a tough decision.

Maybe try asking for more opinions on cscareerquestions on Reddit?

It may mean needing to stick around at the startup longer than you otherwise would, even if you don't like the work as much, to avoid having 2 quick switches in a row.

I think if you're switching again in 3 years, it's a non issue, but if you're switching again in 6 months, it might be an issue.

[marsh wind]

what's big N?

P.S. Non-cs and non-STEM?

or non-CS yet STEM major? @burnt lion

[summer roost]

I had to Google it, but "big name company", basically. FAANG and other big companies

[hearty island]

yeah that's what I was thinking

something FAANG related

[plush pecan]

hello i need help

nvm wrong channel prob

[burnt lion]

sorry, yeah in this case it's google. and non-stem major

[burnt lion]

oh yeah this is something I hadn't considered. If the company goes under before then you think that'll be a factor? I figure this stuff will be filtered by automatic screeners

[summer roost]

Google looks good on a résumé, even after only 18 months, as long as you're actually writing code and can talk about what you did. Personally my biggest fear would be looking like software isn't working out for me by switching jobs too quickly one after another.

They said... The older you get, the less you'll want to take on the risk of working for a startup.

After 3 or 4 years in industry, give or take, you'll be applying for senior developer positions, where there's much less automated screening to fight.

[jaunty mist]

Is data science field saturated??

[swift veldt]

It depends.
For the most well-known companies? I'd say yes because of the competition to go there -- also, it's more and more a "non-PhD need not apply" sometimes.
Generally, I'd say no. Most companies need some data management, engineering, and 'sciencing' around. So there are jobs.

[jaunty mist]

@swift veldt do have any field that require years of training and has a significant demand as well the market should not be saturated

Being born in an overpopulated country makes everything difficult

[swift veldt]

Finance is undergoing some tech shift for instance. That can be harnessed.

data science + a regulatory knowledge can go a long way in banking these days

[jaunty mist]

Data scientist become an hype in India due to its high salary but also the no of jobs are also limited

[inner wren]

:x: According to my records, this user already has a mute infraction. See infraction #30482.

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @vapid jay until 2021-03-24 18:34 (9 minutes and 59 seconds) (reason: discord_emojis rule: sent 52 emojis in 10s).

[vapid jay]

can confirm

[jaunty mist]

?

[vapid jay]

the thing that u just said

[jaunty mist]

Oh ok ty

[vapid jay]

data science is a rarity in india

but its like the next big blast

it soon will expand like by a fuck ton

[jaunty mist]

May be I will stick with backend developer

[vapid jay]

nice

i am still in 12th lmao

[jaunty mist]

Good luck

[vapid jay]

thanks

[jolly charm]

Hello, I would like to ask what are some of the maths skills needed or ideal for programming career. And also where to learn them independently. Thank you.

[jaunty mist]

@jolly charm can u be specific about your career??

[jolly charm]

I want to be a software programmer; though I haven't really decided the specific in that field.

[summer roost]

In general, you don't need much math at all. Symbolic logic, maybe some statistics.

[hearty island]

it's not like ds/ml that it's littered w math

[summer roost]

Some specializations (machine learning, computer graphics, data science) require much more math.

But the baseline is pretty low.

[hearty island]

you can learn ds/algos with basically no math

then from there you can apply to swe internships if you're in college

their benchmark is usually a ds/algos test

sometimes you can get lucky and they may not even ask you it

[jolly charm]

Thanks everyone.

Is just that alot of university and college out their seems to ask for maths for computer courses.

[hearty island]

yeah

when I was taking CS we had to do all 3 calculus courses, discrete maths, and linear algebra

[summer roost]

"Computer science" is a type of math. There's not a lot of computer science involved in the day to day job of being a software developer, though.

[hearty island]

most people didn't even make it past calc 2

[jolly charm]

@hearty island Did you have a maths degree when applying for that course?

[hearty island]

no

[jolly charm]

@summer roost Yeah. Though many says that it help improve logical thinking.

[hearty island]

it was just the math courses you had to take alongside your coding courses

[jolly charm]

@hearty island Nice.

[summer roost]

You definitely do need linear algebra for AI and ML. You need trigonometry, calculus, and geometry for computer graphics. You need statistics for data science. Some types of developers will need discrete mathematics.

But the amount of minimum amount of math you need for a CS degree can be pretty low.

[hearty island]

yes for AI and ML

not for general software dev

[jolly charm]

@summer roost Do you know if there is any sites that can easily teach those sort of skills?

[summer roost]

Which skills? The math for those specializations?

[jolly charm]

Yes, for like AI and ML. I am interesting in learning more about them.

[summer roost]

I'm not terribly familiar with either of them.

!resources may have something for it.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[summer roost]

All I know is that ML requires a lot of linear algebra.

It's essentially all math. Very different than most software development.

AI/ML engineers don't develop software, they develop mathematical models.

[jolly charm]

@summer roost Yeah. The reason why I am interested in them is because I am also studying psycology alongside with CS. It's a weird mix isn't it lol.

However, there is links between cognitive models and CS in those courses.

[summer roost]

Well, it's outside my area of expertise. I'll let someone else chime in.

[jolly charm]

Thank you.

[hearty island]

there is a good book pinned in #data-science-and-ml

it's maths behind ML

might be a good idea to look at it

and see what you have to learn

[jolly charm]

Nice. I'll take a look at it right away.

[leaden jasper]

I've heard great things about Sentdex's Neural Networks from Scratch

[jolly charm]

@leaden jasper I haven't dug in too much in them, except knowing that these two courses has deep connections. But it does spark my curiosity.

[hearty island]

yes

finally

a youtuber who acknowledges the math behind what he's talking about

I understand why they abbreviate the math the way they do in their videos bc they want people to be welcomed into the field

but the math is definitely important

[jolly charm]

@hearty island Yeah. I regret not choosing math as one of my course.

[hearty island]

it's ok

there's a server I'm part of that's strictly for math

I haven't used it yet but I heard it was good

https://discord.gg/4NfNtSuX

[jolly charm]

@hearty island Thank you. This will be a great help.

[hearty island]

cheers

[main thicket]

Not really

Machine learning is a field basically disjoint from anything psychological or neuroscientific

[hearty island]

idk what a cognitive model is

"The cognitive model describes how people's perceptions of, or spontaneous thoughts about, situations influence their emotional, behavioral (and often physiological) reactions."

yeah I don't see how that relates to CS

[main thicket]

Competitive internships at big companies like Google, Intel, etc usually wants either good projects and extracurricular or previous internships.

The previous internships aren't really necessary if you can show the same quality through projects and such though

Far more optional than the other knowledge for the more specialised internships

My friend just got accepted for a similar Intel internship with no internships. He did some HPC sysadmin work at his university and was an "AWS Educate" ambassador thing but nothing apart from that

[mossy blaze]

I'd say BCIs (brain-computer interfaces) is a developing field that links those things.

[main thicket]

Like 90% of BCI right now is electrical/mechanical engineering and signal processing

[vapid jay]

nice

i think you can

definitely

np!

i wanna be a game developer

yep thanks!

can u teach me some python i am a beginner

@vapid jay

There's lots of free tutorial out there, I'm really noob btw

[vapid jay]

ok

thanks for help

guys

[jolly charm]

@hearty island Studies in the way of how human thinks cognitively such as how to process memories and information had been applied in AI and Machine Learning. I believe...

[delicate bane]

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied mute to @vapid jay until 2021-03-24 20:58 (9 minutes and 58 seconds) (reason: duplicates rule: sent 4 duplicated messages in 10s).

[ashen elk]

that's not true - there are a lot of researcher trying to implement a cognitive model (or its equivalent anyways) in computers

NeuraLink is trying to make BCI - but last I heard they managed to connect 1000 neurons to an interface. good; but is 1000 enough 🤔

[finite grove]

Hello everyone!

How are you guys doing?

I have a question about tensorflow

[spare juniper]

I'm looking to get an internship at NASA. I have knowledge in Python and am developing some Discord bots and am working on a Django website. I'm 15 and taking some fairly advanced courses (Ap physics 2, ap calc ab, ap euro etc etc) and next year will be taking (ap physics c, ap calc bc, apush, ap spanish etc etc). I'm also a member of an organization called Civil Air Patrol, and am on their cybersecurity competition team. What else should I be doing?

(I also want to get into MIT) I have a 3.96 GPA

[main thicket]

What sort of work do you want to do at NASA?

[spare juniper]

Mainly just looking for the internship not long term work. I have a feeling they won't let me choose. I've been keen on computer science and engineering though. Rockets and rovers are awesome

[ornate eagle]

sup' guys

[spare juniper]

Hi

[ornate eagle]

Ur boy Sid's new round here

just scrolling through

[spare juniper]

Welcome... why is this in career discussion though

[ornate eagle]

i wanna be a robotics engineer

so thought why not check this section for advice

[spare juniper]

Nice

[ornate eagle]

butt

[spare juniper]

I see you're already in arduino discord too

[ornate eagle]

yah

I am trying to learn arduino parallel to python

trying to get my base strong

[ornate eagle]

i m Indian

[lucid vapor]

Is that a bad thing?

I'm sure there are numerous opportunities in India.

[hearty island]

Also Indian

[spare juniper]

Yeah...

If you have a computer and a brain there's a lot you can do

[lucid vapor]

I'm indian too, although I live in the US. But I know there are a lot of IT jobs there, so robotics isn't a stretch.

[ornate eagle]

yes.....u see Indian education system does not provide an option with Robotics Engineering or AI or Ethical Hacking

[spare juniper]

@ornate eagle neither does the us education tf

[lucid vapor]

Education doesn't always give you it.

I don't learn the type of coding I want to in my school.

[spare juniper]

Not sure any public education will give you that

[lucid vapor]

But I've taught myself through external resources.

You can do the same.

[ornate eagle]

am talking about college

[spare juniper]

^^ same

[hearty island]

You are always self learning in coding

whether or not you’re in college

[ornate eagle]

Bruh...I am doing the same....Khan Academy

[lucid vapor]

Ngl, Khan's coding isn't that great.

[ornate eagle]

Figured that out like 3 yrs ago

[lucid vapor]

It teaches you, but it doesn't teach you the stuff you need that much.

[ornate eagle]

explanation is

rest youtube or google or Opera

[hearty island]

Khan academy deadass does his ds/algos in JavaScript

😐

[ornate eagle]

[lucid vapor]

Probably

[ornate eagle]

OK....I lost my marbles now

[lucid vapor]

What's the issue if you're already learning the stuff?

[hearty island]

Are you talking to me?

[ornate eagle]

FUTURE

[hearty island]

You’re already self learning

And don’t yell at people

That’ll make them less inclined to help

[ornate eagle]

Future in India is not that bright...specially in engineering

[ornate eagle]

not yelling

[spare juniper]

If you've been self teaching for three years and haven't figured that you're learning things then maybe coding isn't right for you

Based on the way you're acting maybe you're a little too young to realize the potential of inda

India*

[ornate eagle]

sorry conveyed it wrong😢

[hearty island]

@spare juniper I don’t think you have the right to tell people that

[spare juniper]

I thought india was full of it engineers and other software geniuses

[spare juniper]

Tell people what

[ornate eagle]

can't say 3 yrs....cuz' I am only able to study during summer breaks

[spare juniper]

Have you been learning things then?

[ornate eagle]

It is....so much so that even an local electrician has a B.Tech

[lucid vapor]

Even in the US it isn't. We have to make it bright for us. And I know that sounds cliche, but it's the truth.

[spare juniper]

So I dont see the issue

[ornate eagle]

Tough competetion bro

[spare juniper]

In the USA as well

I still don't see how you're disadvantaged

[hearty island]

You have to work for success

That is the name of the game

[spare juniper]

I understand India maybe isn't the richest country but I'm aiming to get into MIT which is one of the most prestigious engineering schools and it takes a lot of work

[lucid vapor]

Even in the US, it's hard to find good colleges like that.

There are only a few and they are almost impossible to get into.

[spare juniper]

If you work hard enough then I'm sure you can easily discover inter country colleges

[lucid vapor]

Why don't you do something about it in your college? Wherever that is. Make an club or something.

[spare juniper]

Outer*

[lucid vapor]

That looks good on a resume too.

[spare juniper]

If you don't believe that you can get in then you need to work harder

Find what it takes

Do well in your studies

[lucid vapor]

When you get into college.

[spare juniper]

Do extracurricular

Self teach make cool projects enter competitions

[lucid vapor]

No, I'm saying do something like that when you get into college.

There are definitely some remote competitions you can enter.

[spare juniper]

PCM being the power control train module?

Sorry I'm us person

Idk educational programs in India

[lucid vapor]

What's PCM and RCJ?

[spare juniper]

^^

So convince them

I started making money online by selling discord bots

At first my parents didn't agree

?

If you want to get into a good college it will take work

So work for your grades

It being hard shouldn't be an excuse

[lucid vapor]

Basically, do something that's worth going on a resume.

[spare juniper]

^^

And grades aren't all of it

Whatever differentiates you from everybody else is what they want to say

I'm taking college level physics 2 and college calculus. Next year I'm taking calculus physics 3 and college level calculus 2 and I'm in grade 10

If you're aiming high work hard

More than just that

[lucid vapor]

The actual course doesn't matter.

[spare juniper]

Calc is pretty easy but

Its about challenging yourself

Really

[lucid vapor]

All Sullybash is saying is that it's a rather advanced course that they're doing early for their grade.

[spare juniper]

Taking the harder courses available is what shows that you have commitment

And take advantage of your opportunities

[tender thicket]

I think we should keep in mind that high school does not define your life

[spare juniper]

^^

But if you want to get into a good college its worth putting in the effort

[lucid vapor]

In the long term, high school doesn't matter.

[spare juniper]

And getting your life together now and getting good habits will help you

[lucid vapor]

It only matters for college.

[spare juniper]

Really the college you go to doesn't matter either

Its the connections that are made from going to that college

[tender thicket]

I also would like to bring attention to this. As you are someone who's self-admittedly currently only in grade 10, this isn't something you ought to be saying

[spare juniper]

I'm in 10th grade as well

[tender thicket]

Yes, it's important to have control and plan out your life a little, but we should also understand that it's not particularly reasonable to expect people to know where they're life is going

That's what I meant

Let me edit that

[spare juniper]

I mean I've been self teaching for a year and I can tell that I have learned a lot of stuff

[tender thicket]

I can tell you right now that I took what was probably the fastest high school to college series possible in my area, and while it helped me a lot it ultimately only made things faster, and put a lot of stress onto me

[spare juniper]

And have been self teaching all of my courses

You're 1 grade ahead of me what

[lucid vapor]

I've skipped a grade, and I was happy with my decision then. But now, I partly regret it because it didn't allow me to take some more advanced classes.

[spare juniper]

Tbh I'm just in it for the challenge. I sit on my ass all day during covid programming and still get a 4.0 in my college level classes

[lucid vapor]

It's fine to wait some time for things.

[spare juniper]

I skipped 3rd grade in public school then switched to a pretty advanced school in 6th grade

But yes certainly mental health is the most important thing

[tender thicket]

It's more than just mental health

[spare juniper]

Physical health

[tender thicket]

School does not teach many things that are extremely important

[lucid vapor]

^

[spare juniper]

Common sense

[tender thicket]

There is also social health, but from this perspective it's difficult to talk about them because the perspective itself is flawed

[spare juniper]

I think it's for rpis

[lucid vapor]

#❓｜how-to-get-help may answer that better than we can.

[spare juniper]

Oh no

Its a python help channel

Read the channel

[hearty island]

Help with python?

😐

is he trolling

I can’t tell

[spare juniper]

No...

[lucid vapor]

^

[spare juniper]

Idk

@ornate eagle just read the channel

Python is a programming language

This is the discord server for python

Hence if you have a question you ask it there

Its just random I think

Just some differentiation

[hearty island]

It’s just random food items

[spare juniper]

Between channels

[tender thicket]

The food names add some variety over help-1, help-2, etc

[hearty island]

And people remember it better than elements

[spare juniper]

All the programmers fat asses is what you mean lol

Jk

It used to be periodic table elements

[tender thicket]

The help channels used to be named after elements. help-argon, for example

[hearty island]

Elements on the periodic table

[spare juniper]

Bye

I accepted your friend request

[spare juniper]

Bump

[tender thicket]

@spare juniper I just want to make it clear that you should try listening a little more.

Your words are very strong and certain but you don't have the context of having been on our server long enough to quite understand what the appropriate advice we'd like to see in this channel is.

I appreciate that you're interested in showing your experience, just try to word things less discouragingly and less like you know the answer absolutely--because here, we're just sharing our own experiences, and none of us really know how the world works for certain.

Nor can we really know, because it varies so much across the world and in different places and niches

[main thicket]

First I'd start off by looking at the programs NASA offers for high schoolers.

There's a couple

[tender thicket]

^

[main thicket]

On top of that, you need to decide what you want to do in university

[lucid vapor]

First learn some stuff about space, if that's what you want to do at NASA.

[main thicket]

The path of designing rockets is a lot different to the path of writing software

[lucid vapor]

Yeah.

[spare juniper]

I switched from wanting to be a mechanical engineer to a computer science then became a mix between the two

[main thicket]

eh, don't really need to know much about space, it depends heavily on what you're into

[lucid vapor]

What exacyly do you want to do.

[hearty island]

I don’t know anything about rockets so I’m spectating

[lucid vapor]

Yeah, that's why I said "if".

[spare juniper]

Although I heard cs is very useful in engineering

[main thicket]

Basic programming is useful for everyone, but you don't really need a CS degree for it.

[spare juniper]

Yeah

Having knowledge though

Verilog and Matlab seem useful

[tender thicket]

Engineering comes heavily out of mathematics, and when you bring computers into the mix it allows you to digitize the mathematics and do things like complex modeling, predictions, etc

[main thicket]

You'll learn the programming needed in uni already

[spare juniper]

At first I planned on double majoring in cs and business at mit

But engineering is pretty fun too

I kind of want to be an entrepreneur

[main thicket]

I wouldn't be stuck on the idea of MIT, the chance is you probably won't get into it, but that's fine because there's dozens of universities just as good

[spare juniper]

I mean 7% acceptance rate isn't impossible

I have the grades

I have the courses

[hearty island]

It’s way more than just the grades

[spare juniper]

I'm working on the extracurricular

[main thicket]

I have friends with international physics and maths olympiad medals who got rejected

[hearty island]

^

[main thicket]

Also you need to decide what you want to do lol, CS and engineering and entrepreneurship, they're things you spend decades of your life on each, not something you jump around.

[hearty island]

I know a regeneron winner who got rejected

[main thicket]

7% sounds high until you realise most people who aren't getting in don't even bother applying

[tender thicket]

^

[spare juniper]

Also you can be a nerd all you want

[tender thicket]

They sent me a letter/packet requesting me to apply, but I'd already picked a different school more appropriate to my wants so I didn't bother

[spare juniper]

But it's not what colleges look for

[main thicket]

MIT definitely looks for nerds

[hearty island]

“A nerd”?

[spare juniper]

To some extent

[hearty island]

bruh every STEM major is a nerd

[main thicket]

To a large extent

[hearty island]

Open your eyes

[spare juniper]

If they didn't do other things like extracurriculars or didn't write a good application then idk

Plenty of people are smart

But if they don't stand out

They won't get it

So thats my goal

To stand out to some extent

[main thicket]

Smart nerds don't just sit at home, smart nerds do activities like winning olympiads and international science fairs

Still extracurriculur, it's just extremely nerdy

[tender thicket]

At least in my circle of the US, I've been seeing some emphasis on selecting candidates that both stand out and are well-rounded

[hearty island]

They like athletes too

[spare juniper]

Does golf count as athleticism

[hearty island]

Well rounded people

[spare juniper]

I do golf and piano and thats where I dont nerd out

[main thicket]

Good to remember MIT isn't quite the same as Harvard etc, they get care more about technically minded people than the other ones

not that atheleticism isn't considered good, just that not as important as in other east coast elite unis

[spare juniper]

Yeah I feel like if I don't get in though I will need a backup plan

And if I am not well rounded for other colleges

Then I probably won't get in

I am only in 10th grade so I still have time to get into some cool competitions

Any recommendations for competitions or extras?

[main thicket]

I've been on discord since ~2016 back when I was finishing up high school and I've talked to like hundreds of high schoolers over time who said "I want to go to MIT" or Stanford or whatever but they had unrealistically high expectations because they didn't really have an idea of how their competition is

[spare juniper]

I've done my research to a fair extent

[main thicket]

I've heard that multiple times too :)

The good thing is that it literally doesn't matter because it's just your undergrad, because there are many many good schools that will match your goals

[spare juniper]

I go to a highly competitive school and take the hardest classes available, program and self teach during the day and still get a 3.96 (dumb Spanish giving me a 92 percent) I'm just trying to do enough so I'm not being overrealistic

I still have some time I'm only in 10th grade

[hearty island]

Don’t they all 🙂

[tender thicket]

More than 50% of the students at MIT did not go directly there from high school

[spare juniper]

Okay why don't you give me some useful advice daspecito or don't talk. I'm trying to make myself stand out by getting advice

[tender thicket]

In fact, 15% of them were over 30

[spare juniper]

I dont need you telling me that its hard

[tender thicket]

College is not like high school

[hearty island]

When you apply to colleges you should have dream colleges, reach colleges, and target colleges

you’ve already established MIT as your dream

So now you should maybe focus on some reach and target ones

That’s my advice

[main thicket]

To be fair, I'm sure he'll got in somewhere at Tier 1 with the good grades, but every tier 1 is a crapshoot

Even with the reqiurements

[hearty island]

Yeah

[spare juniper]

Also one more advice please

[hearty island]

His target ones are going to be way higher ranked than the average student’s

[spare juniper]

Do I take ap physics c (both mechanics and EM) next year, or do I take ap chem

[tender thicket]

I was told a lot that I should get an associates before attempting to go to a tier 1 college

I did not end up doing so, but I did end up concluding, that, at least for my area, it was good advice

I am not sure how well that applies to people outside the US

[main thicket]

it doesnt really matter, chem vs phys c isn't going to be a huge difference

choose based on what you want to do

[spare juniper]

I will have a college counselor that's like 1:30 in 12th grade

[main thicket]

if you want to do cs and business, neither of them will ever matter

[spare juniper]

For some help with applications and choosing

But I just want to know what I should aim for

Do SATs matter a lot for q school like MIT do you think?

[main thicket]

yes

although covid might have changed

the importance a bit

[tender thicket]

I think I would echo was daspecito said. You should line up colleges that you dream of going to, colleges you would like to go to, and colleges you can feel very confident at getting into that would not be a mistake to do so

[spare juniper]

I think test optional for some schools

[main thicket]

for now

[spare juniper]

I already have the easy colleges to get into

[main thicket]

but the time you apply, it will be a requirement again probably

[tender thicket]

At your age/school state I would also advise trying things

Have you done chem before? If not, try the chem class

[spare juniper]

U of A, wmbey riddle

[tender thicket]

I didnt' realize how much I liked chemistry until I did a class on it, turns out its a favorite

[spare juniper]

Yeah I've taken chem classes from 6th to 8th, now I'm taking honors chemistry and our teacher sucks and were doing freaking college organic chem lol

[tender thicket]

lol F

My HS teacher for chemistry in 10th was beaten by the class

[spare juniper]

I haven't showed up to his class in 4 months

[tender thicket]

I ended up six months ahead in the curriculum

because I was bored to tears

[main thicket]

hs orgo is fine if you just remember reaction pathways and some other basics

[spare juniper]

This teacher makes perverted comments and is just generally terrible and teaching

[spare juniper]

Were mainly doing like sp hydrodizations and molecular and electron geometry

And some lattice energy that's easy

But I've basically been teaching myself every subject this year

My teachers are not very good

They used to be then they all left

From covid

[main thicket]

that stuff's not bad as long as you understand basic concepts, it's more the stuff that needs memory that screws you up

[spare juniper]

Yeah like I said I'm acing the class without showing up

[sudden quartz]

imagine thinking about getting into mit when you go to a hs that doesnt lead its graduates into a dumpster

[spare juniper]

Tbh applying calc to physics sounds more fun though

[sudden quartz]

just go to any top university ,fool

Tufts

[spare juniper]

?

My school is excellent

But covid has been hard on everyone

Most people*

[sudden quartz]

I said

you go to a school that doesnt lead its hs graduates into a dumpster

you will be fine at any top uni

[spare juniper]

Ah ok

I thought you made a typo

[sudden quartz]

i was led into a dumpster

[spare juniper]

Yikes

Public?

I like to stay as far away from public schools as possible at least in my state

Because my state has the worst public schools in the nation

I go to a charter school that's just as free lol

Something funny is that its actually a liberal arts school but it has such advanced science courses its appealing to the math people

And the arts suck now soo

[main thicket]

the top scoring school in Australia is an agricultural school

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ruse_Agricultural_High_School

[spare juniper]

Interesting lol

[sudden quartz]

?

[spare juniper]

I think I go to like the 3rd top high school in the country

[sudden quartz]

when i graduate hs i didnt even know how college worked

i probably went to one of the lowest

[spare juniper]

Only beat by other of the same school

[main thicket]

yeah I went to a selective public funded high school that probably was also 3rd or so

[spare juniper]

Yeah I've been trying to research as much as possible so that doesn't happen

[sudden quartz]

I was ignorant to the point i didnt know how ignorant i was

[spare juniper]

Yeah charters are publicly funded too

They just get paid less

[sudden quartz]

but im smart so it worked out, my potential is shot though

[spare juniper]

Per student but they get to decide more on how to operate

[spare juniper]

Are you past your initial college now?

[sudden quartz]

inital college? id say yes. im graduating soon

[spare juniper]

Like right after high school

[sudden quartz]

i have internship and job offer at a pretty good global company

[spare juniper]

Never really an age to stop going to college so wanted to clarify

[sudden quartz]

yes i went to university after hs

[spare juniper]

I feel like my goals have always been set high by my parents

[sudden quartz]

i likely could have went to a better uni too.

[spare juniper]

They always wanted me to be a millionaire or billionaire

And tbh doesn't sound like such a bad life

[tender thicket]

Well, interestingly enough, you are here at discord.gg/ python

[spare juniper]

Not being worried about money

I'm here partially because I was bored lol

[tender thicket]

there's a lot of opportunity to get to be part of the open source community here, which does come with recognition and can be pretty good on a college app IMO

[spare juniper]

Yeah I feel project ideas are what are hard for me

Idk what is good to make

[tender thicket]

I'm never really bored, because if I ever get bored I just make something. Find something you don't like, learn why it's like that, then see if you can make it better

[sudden quartz]

make a sudoku solver in a object oriented language

youre in

[lucid vapor]

Find a project you like that's long.

And do it.

[spare juniper]

I feel like something useful though

[lucid vapor]

You might never get it done, but do it.

[spare juniper]

Not something random like a sudoku solver no offense

[tender thicket]

The matrix project could use another server implementation, other than synapse

[sudden quartz]

then go to a hackathon

[lucid vapor]

Yeah, something useful to you that demonstrates your skill.

[tender thicket]

At least, I've found myself in need re: that

[spare juniper]

I joined a cybersecurity competition team

Thst involves some.scripting

[tender thicket]

Make some tools, do they let you bring your own tools?

[sudden quartz]

thats good

[spare juniper]

I believe so

[tender thicket]

scripts to scan for abnormal hashes, modification dates, etc

Advances over the simple nettop or w/e that application is called

[spare juniper]

I'm working on a quadcopter from scratch, and planning to implement some ar stuff to overlay and hud then maybe some ai stuff that makes decision making

[tender thicket]

Read into what the common signs of an intrusion are: detect heap spraying, stuff like EMET/ESET

[spare juniper]

And I'm working on a website with my engineering group that matches tutors with students

Backend django

[lucid vapor]

That's cool.

[spare juniper]

And I also sell discord bots to some people for some extra project money

[lucid vapor]

Things like that look good.

On a college app, and probably a resume.

[spare juniper]

Yeah gave me some experience with teamwork too

Github is so easy using pycharm its ridiculous

And we setup heroku auto whatever so when I push to the github it automatically updates the heroku

I feel like sometimes I get distracted during the day though

Like ill browse through ap calculus review videos

Then sys admin videos

Then golf game improvement

Skip my classes...

Or pay very light attention

Then code

Then get sucked into yt and on and on

[sudden quartz]

Lectures are often just not valuable

Good lecturers are

then you have the ones that think their students are dumb

[spare juniper]

I feel like my teachers waste tok mucb time

Like just get to the point already

Which is where the web and yt helps

[sudden quartz]

In highschool I didnt even go to class

[spare juniper]

Its much easier for me since I'm online

And the attendance system is separate from lectures

Idk sorry for flooding the chats just sometimes its nice for me to just talk about stuff

I dont often talk about this

[sudden quartz]

I need help displaying a column of azure sql on a webpage in PHP

[lucid vapor]

You may want to see #web-development or #databases.

[sudden quartz]

Like anyone there will help either

[spare juniper]

Documentation and Google are always your best resource

Not always

But for something specific probably yeah

[sudden quartz]

or not

[lucid vapor]

Then ask in #python-discussion.

This is a channel about careers, not SQL and PHP.

Better yet, ask in a PHP server.

[ancient sierra]

Hey I have a question about a certain assignment that I need to finish. Is there anyone that can help me out with while loops and etc.

[sudden quartz]

Universities that just let the students who already know the content pass and feel good about themselves for crap teaching

[sudden quartz]

Wrong channel.

[ancient sierra]

which one do i go to
?

[sudden quartz]

any other one but here. Howd you even end up asking a question like that in this channel first

[spare juniper]

Any of the help channels

[ancient sierra]

okay thank you

[spare juniper]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

For an engineering based degree, do you need an undergrad or can you go straight to a 4 year degree

[sudden quartz]

Straight to a 4 year of course or some cases, 5

The only thing you need an entire undergrad for is MS degrees, or Law School, Medical School

[spare juniper]

MS?

Also what is undergrad then

If you can just do your bachelors

[sudden quartz]

graduate degree

[sudden quartz]

what? Undergrad is below graduate status. If you have a Bachelors you are a graduate. If you are in process of getting it you are and undergraduate

[spare juniper]

Ah

[spare juniper]

So q masters or anything after bachelors is a graduate degree

[sudden quartz]

Yes

Thats your future because youre a top 10 highschooler

gradachool

[summer roost]

Er, what country are you talking about? That's definitely not how those terms work in the US. A bachelor's degree or an associate's degree is an undergraduate degree. Someone who has graduated with a BS holds an undergraduate degree.

Someone who is studying to get an undergraduate degree is colloquially called an undergrad (short for undergraduate student). Later degrees are called graduate degrees. Someone who is studying to get a master's degree is colloquially called a grad student, because they're a student working towards a graduate degree.

[bronze dock]

Having a virtual video interview tomorrow on teams, would it be weird to have a whiteboard behind me to outline a project i've been working on? Its simply 4 words with a sentence underneath each. Is that tacky?

[summer roost]

Virtual interviews are weird for everyone. I think it would be fine. I'd start off with it empty, and just say that drawing something out would help you explain it, and ask if they'd mind.

They'll almost certainly say they don't mind. Worst case scenario, they say don't bother.

@bronze dock ^

[bronze dock]

Thanks @summer roost I didnt see your message cuz I was writing it out like you advised against ;]

I think I might bring the whiteboard up and then just describe my reasoning for why I have been working on this project. I think the contents on the board are simple enough to gloss over. I just want to make sure the interviewers dont lose track of the 4 main words as I'm describing how they all interact

Or do you think it would be better to just write the 4 C's one at a time and skip the red/green descriptions?

[summer roost]

I think that's going to feel like marketing speak to them... I probably wouldn't do that.

If you draw or write things out in front of them, it encourages engagement, and lets them predict what you're about to write next, and gives them an opportunity to interrupt you, ask questions, have you clarify. If you do it in advance, they don't have that opportunity, and it'll feel more like you giving them a lecture, which isn't what anyone is there for.

[bronze dock]

True, my goal is pretty much to tell them I have my own methods that help me keep me organized to communicate better. When they ask "What skills do you bring to the table?" I want this to be one of the main ones in which i can describe that I am organized and can communicate well when getting information across (to another person or writing down).

Hmm that is a very good point about the engagement. And i could show a lot more movement of thought by noting the order at which each word is written

This has been very helpful @summer roost I think I will write in front of them so I can better show my flow of thinking and hopefully it will keep them more engaged as well. Thanks!

[coral stream]

Does it matter where you graduate in undergrad?

I mean for example, a person graduates from a decent university (not particularly one of the top schools), but he/she has the competent intelligence and skills for his/her field

[gray anvil]

Fam I graduated with honors in a social science degree from a top 5 British University but struggled with depression and did odd jobs for three years with no corporate experience before corona hit. I taught myself python over corona and did a couple of courses, and today I'm working in one if the largest private institutions in my country. The degree didn't do Jack squat tbph, I got in because I flew through the on the spot technical challenge they gave me. Its still an entry level engineering role, but I'm lucky to be in a place I can learn 👍 so no the degree don't matter at all as long as you remain active upon graduating and have some way of demonstrating competence

[main thicket]

It matters a bit if you're applying for grad school:

• there's a minor effect if your school is lank significantly low or hasn't been heard before (major state unis and above are good enough usually)
  In general:
• it affects research opportunities. This is less about good uni vs bad uni, more about uni specialising in your field of choice vs not. Worse universities overall often do well in specific fields

But in general, the effect in both engineering and CS is minimal, especially for industry

Companies don't care about your school, only really grad school and even then not that much given you've got much better metrics

[coral stream]

Alright that's nice to know, so all in all, what that person only has to worry about is getting real good in his field right?

[fringe meadow]

Guys

[thorny coral]

I am looking for a place were I am able to code for people for free. Fiverr is not an option (no free option)
Any ideas?

[worn atlas]

same I want experience , If you find any options let me know also :|

[thorny coral]

Will do

I also want experience :O

[worn atlas]

Did you work on fiverr?

[thorny coral]

no free option so opted out

[worn atlas]

oh

[steep swift]

same stuff, wanna work with some kind of team

[main thicket]

Have you guys tried open source projects?

[forest oyster]

what would a trading firm ask for a 30min zoom interview for an algo developer position? this is >5 years of experience

[worn atlas]

I don't have any experience not even getting unpaid internship I just wanted a experience how thinks works in industries, tired of watching videos

things*

[vapid jay]

if you are getting interviewed by a good company, hopefully about your knowledge on technical analysis from a financial perspective as well as your understanding of low latency, AZ's, backtesting vs prod etc. if they are trying to copy FAANG for interviews, just random data structures and algorithms questions EDIT: assuming you have some dev experience else wear

[left maple]

hello there
anyone into web development
i am a beginner and i do have some queries

[manic vapor]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for someone for a short interview for a paper in my college English class

Bob lemme interview you

😂

Fr tho. I wanted someone to interview for one of my 3 topics

[mild zenith]

Not appropriate. Shouldn't even have to say that.

[manic vapor]

Impact of machine learning and AI, Bulk data collection, and quantum computer

[hearty island]

there are some ML/AI people here you can interview

I don't know about bulk data collection or quantum computers

[manic vapor]

That’s what I was thinking but I’m hoping to find someone working with machine learning for a job

[hearty island]

there's someone here who did ML for Microsoft

[manic vapor]

Are they in the VC atm?

[hearty island]

uh idk

[manic vapor]

Damn. I’ll try to find them

Unless you can @ the@

Them*

[spare juniper]

Coding for free isn't appropriate?

And people shouldn't have said that?

[hearty island]

I don't feel comfortable doing that

bc they may be busy

[manic vapor]

I get that

[spare juniper]

I mean you shouldn't code for free but why shouldn't they have said that

[manic vapor]

I’ll try to get in contact with them for sure tho. Thank you

[lucid vapor]

That was something else.

Referring to a deleted message.

That was dealt with.

[hearty island]

I was going to say

but I didn't know if I was mini modding

so I just stayed quiet

[spare juniper]

Ah

For me the reply went to something else

Anyone know where I can find group projects to expand my resume?

Or project ideas

[hearty island]

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[spare juniper]

ty

[hearty island]

https://github.com/sketch-city/project-ideas

if you don't like those ideas

just search up project ideas on github

you'll find a lot of repos with just ideas

[ashen elk]

personal projects are the best way to get internships IMO

[worn atlas]

can you give me examples of some projects ?

[ashen elk]

(before college BTW)

[worn atlas]

I'm done with my BSc in stats

[ashen elk]

Hmmm...my projects are all AI/ML based

[ashen elk]

ahh, then I don't think my advice is the best

[worn atlas]

that's I want

[ashen elk]

because most probably you need to do a lot more stuff to get internships from college

[worn atlas]

can I see your projects

[ashen elk]

well, one of them was a bidirectional autoencoder to try and find the best way to compress images. the idea was to basically make a zoom for low internet calls. I didn't do anything video calling implementation - only the model

but the project would require a ton of data to be scaled, better be done by a startup or a company

[worn atlas]

same thing I was doing in past month I was working on language transcript er

but I couldn't found any model for this project and I left

I have just done few analysis

I don't think I can get anything with just analysis

[ashen elk]

so basically speec-to-text

so how many companies have you applied in?

[worn atlas]

I don't have count

lots of