career-advice

[maiden solar]

thats why i have 2 phones with 2 different numbers on them

turn off phone for work every weekend, exit email and slack

[vapid jay]

Can someone guide me. I just graduated and being a fresher applied to 200+ companies. But current pandemic situation resulted in me getting ghosted for all of the applications. Now what to do?

[hearty island]

Apply more

[vapid jay]

Yep, still trying. But i seriously dont understand, why do companies posts vacancies if they are not even acknowledging whether our resume is under review or anything else.

[hearty island]

They want the perfect candidate out of the hundreds that applied

the one who’ll work cheaper than the other workers they currently have

But also be more productive

[vapid jay]

Yes, i do understand that, but this thing is so tiring.

Mailing resume hundreds of time.

[hearty island]

I think I applied to like 400 internships before I got my first paid one

so you’re not alone

what genre of coding are you trying to get into? SWE? DS/Ml? Devops?

[vapid jay]

Oh, how did you cope up with that. Like i am tired now of this HR culture of not reverting back to applicants.

[vapid jay]

ML. But I want to go in product/project mgmt thing. Technofunctional type roles

[hearty island]

You just have to move on

don’t expect to get a job every time you apply

[vapid jay]

Yes. But what i was(or everyone else is) expecting is a simple revert back on the application.

[hearty island]

I don’t know about product management but I know that they’re pretty harsh w people directly out of college

they want people with experience

how’s your search area?

like are you only applying to jobs in your area?

[vapid jay]

Thats why applying for internship and even asked HR's for unpaid internship, reason to get real time experience. And get converted when company feels if am compatible

[vapid jay]

Mostly. Through LinkedIn, and famous job portals in my country

[hearty island]

uh

What country?

[vapid jay]

In ML, BI, Product Mgmt roles.

[vapid jay]

India

[hearty island]

oh god

oh no

no no no

India is extremely overpopulated

literally everyone can code

[vapid jay]

Yes. You are disappointed 😂

[hearty island]

no I’m Indian

I’m grateful I live in the US

[vapid jay]

Good for you

[hearty island]

no way I could cut it against these goddamn IIT guys

yeah my domain only extends to the US I really don’t know how it works in India

But if a company “promises” they’ll turn your unpaid internship into a paid one they’ll keep delaying that till you leave

[vapid jay]

I can show you like 10-20% of postings, where companies directly asks for IIT/IIM/BITS and what not, with warnings you'll rejected and blacklisted if not from these institutions and still applying 😂

[vapid jay]

Oh man. It will be hard that way too

[hearty island]

I’ve seen some quantitative finance internship positions ask for certain colleges and everything else is just “Other”

it fits bc I have never gotten an email back from a quant finance company

oh also if your coding test is like 6 hours long please ask if you'll be compensated for it

[abstract breach]

What SWE, DS/MI?

[marsh wind]

out of curiosity - there are companies that actual do that?

[marsh wind]

quants are super selective everywhere afaik

[hearty island]

an unpaid internship asked me to create a music app for them for 4 hours

and it was a music streaming company

[marsh wind]

here most quants want STEM phd

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/true-agreed-jennifer-aniston-thinking-hmmm-gif-14692854

[marsh wind]

no-no I mean do they actually compensate ever for long cdoing challenges

[hearty island]

they should

[marsh wind]

I know they can give you long ones

should yes. but do they? ever saw a case?

[hearty island]

6 hours of your time is not trivial if you're not getting paid for it

but no I haven't seen a company that decides to pay you it

most likely if you ask that question they'll perceive it as you being greedy

but they'd be profiting off your labor so I guess the greed goes both ways

what is it with these companies and unrealistic expectations

I saw a position saying they wanted someone with 9 years of react experience but it's been out for 7

[maiden solar]

daym India is wilding

[hearty island]

overpopulation kills opportunities

it's very densely populated

[maiden solar]

similar to china then

[hearty island]

no

it's worse than China

China at least slowed down overpopulation with the one child policy

India didn't do anything

literally everyone in India wants out

[maiden solar]

what is average family size in india?

[vapid jay]

Once gave 4 hrs 6 questions coding test. Got 3 months internship, but that's all, i can show in my resume 😑

[hearty island]

4.6

https://www.prb.org/international/geography/india

[hearty island]

was it paid

[vapid jay]

Most of the entry level jobs in india requires 2-5 year of exp

[hearty island]

oh boy

oh boy

lawd havth merthy

[maiden solar]

soo if Im not mistaken its quite usual to have 3 children

[lucid vapor]

How is that entry level if it requires 2-5 years experience?

[hearty island]

quite usual doesn't mean it's good

that just contributes more to overpopulation

[vapid jay]

For top notch colleges 1000 applicants on 1 seat, for entry level job: 5-7k applicants for a single posting that too within couple of days.

[hearty island]

do non-IIT students even have a chance

[maiden solar]

I see, imho I think they have obsession to have more kids, is it bcs of cultural traditions? Religion?

[hearty island]

don't move to India and have kids there

[vapid jay]

Now to be clear its statistical question. 😂 Dont want to blame religions in this science group . 😎

[vapid jay]

Yes

[hearty island]

my parents are Indian and they only had one child: me

my uncle has two kids

[vapid jay]

LinkedIn influencers are trying to guide recruiters for that, but HR don't care

[hearty island]

my parents openly sneer at people with like 4 kids

and they're like how the hell do you pay college for all 4

[abstract breach]

Some orthodox families want boy child, so they try untill they have a boy.
But some families in india is a lot of families.

[hearty island]

anyways this is wildly off topic

[lucid vapor]

This could get political. Maybe off-topic?

[vapid jay]

If the post is dedicated to such institute candidates. Then no one else matters, even if other guy's got papers in journals and all.

[hearty island]

is this true

[maiden solar]

dont worry, so many companies moving to India from china that means more job opportunities guys

[vapid jay]

Yes. Definitely.

[abstract breach]

What is the condition of freelancing rn?

[hearty island]

maybe I should only search up software in Indeed

it would give me the widest range of jobs to apply to

[maiden solar]

america china trade war brings India quite good advantages in the employment sector

[vapid jay]

Abusing unemployed guys.thats what it is

[vapid jay]

Not the IT, its all manufacturing

[abstract breach]

I had hoped that will a solution.

What are you guys doing right Now?

[vapid jay]

Freelancing is good for website developers and similar fields, cause that market is unorganized, every shop owner thinks of having a website

[maiden solar]

there must be IT department in manufacturing company

[vapid jay]

But BI, ML guys sits in HQs 🤔

[abstract breach]

I still need research more on jobs and stuff. Still in first year.

[vapid jay]

Oh

Best of luck. You have time

[abstract breach]

That's what I hope will help me.
It's hard anyways, and then I am in India.
Cherry on top.😐

[maiden solar]

grinding is your way to go, you could join hackathon for + value in your resume

[maiden solar]

have you applied on fintech companies? ML & BI involved, you can start from there

[abstract breach]

Thanks for the advice.
I did join a competitive programming club in my college hoping I'll get chance for some contest.
College started just a month back, more to unfold

[peak halo]

Does anyone have experience being interviewed for data scientist positions or (more preferably) conducting those interviews? I have my first such interview on Monday and I'm not so arrogant as to assume that I'll nail the first one, though I'd still like to go in prepared.

[maiden solar]

HR or technical?

[peak halo]

good question-- it's HR

[hearty island]

does my HR experience for my data science internship apply

bc it was like entirely behavioral questions

[shadow moss]

My guess is it will be standard "Getting to know you interview" and possibly some pre canned questions

[peak halo]

so, "what's a time you were mad at someone", etc?

[shadow moss]

Yea

or tell me about your last project

[peak halo]

fun fun

[shadow moss]

have elevator pitch for your last major stuff at Uni

[peak halo]

that I can do

[shadow moss]

biggest is sound natural

like not a Zuckerberg Robot in front of Congress

if you have non computer hobby, Make sure you talk about that

and they might probe you about the company so for the love of all that reverent by any deity you may or may not worship, please read about the company on their website and either understand what they do or if you don't, at least make it clear you have read as much as you can

as for pre canned data science questions, they will be looking for broad answer, my guess is questions will be standard stuff you ask to sus out fakers

so have broad answers because if you don't match whatever is on their sheet, into the 🗄️ your application goes

[peak halo]

right, because the HR person won't be able to tell if my answer indicates knowledge of the subject matter

I assume

[maiden solar]

HR interview is easy

[shadow moss]

Generally not

[hearty island]

how did you deal with a difficult person

[shadow moss]

like when interviewing for SREs and they claim to know powershell, I ask HR to ask them this "What is command to get all running processes?" and I'm looking for the words "Get-Process"

follow up is "How would you sort by PID?" and I'm looking for "Pipeline to sort or Sort-Object"

[maiden solar]

But have to have deep knowledges about company profile you are applying to

[hearty island]

when they say tell me about yourself don't give an entire life story

[peak halo]

It all started when I was born...

[hearty island]

lmao

[shadow moss]

so HR has "magic words" they will be looking for and those are generally high level concepts

like "How would you determine that statistic model is valid?"

[hearty island]

should you be using buzzwords w HR

[fossil ruin]

Do companies see github random usernames e.g. Asianguy_123 as unprofessional? Should i make a new account with my real name or does it not really matter?

For example when i need to link them my projects in my application/resume

[maiden solar]

get yourself username with your initial and nice photo

[limber rampart]

looks like you can change your username under Settings -> Account

shouldn't have to make a new account

[fossil ruin]

So does it seem unprofessional?

[limber rampart]

I don't think so, but someone else might

[fossil ruin]

I said make a new account because I use my current one to share work with people online, which isnt really the issue

[limber rampart]

my github pfp is a cat

[fossil ruin]

K thanks for your input

[hearty island]

mine is pythonindent

[jolly furnace]

i think as long as ur username have some negative connotations

ur fine

[hearty island]

yay

[vapid jay]

guys are entry level django jobs a real thing?

i cant find any and heard that they dont exist

[hearty island]

just apply anyways

[vapid jay]

cant find any

[hearty island]

go to indeed

search up django

done

[vapid jay]

but im really curious on which path i should go down

I mean entry level, i did search and i couldnt find any in miami

should i apply to mid level django jobs?

[hearty island]

yes

there is a chance that you may be even better than the other mid level people applying

don't play the experience game

otherwise you're never gonna get a job bc all you'll be doing is waiting till you have experience

just apply

I am so sick of these tik toks being like oh you know Google's SWE salary is 200k?

[mortal wedge]

Here's the real question

Pants for zoom meetings?

[fervent mural]

never

[hearty island]

just don't stand up

stay glued to your seat at all times

[patent cave]

Hi there, I am interested in Simulation of Physics/Engineering problems by using python. For example: Simulation in Fluid Dynamics and Thermodynamics . So, which modules i have to learn and practice and get projects. Now days, I am learning Pandas, Numpy, Matplotlib and seaborn. My background is Mechanical Engineer. Please suggest modules / Techniques , I would like to hear and apply.

[shadow moss]

At minimum get pajama pants

[delicate bane]

you mean "DOESNT", right?

[jolly furnace]

i was meaning a negation

so if the asian_123 dude thought it wasnt

.... gotta make sure i said negation

[mortal wedge]

Look at scipy and sympy as well. I've found both of them helpful in physics/engineering simulation

Numpy is probably going to be your bread and butter for simulations due to all the nifty matrix calculations you can do, it's highly optimized

[delicate bane]

i was also going to say isnt this what matlab specializes in..?

[hollow berry]

if creating a company online, i guess it's a good idea to be able to code?

I just feel like visual coding will become mainstream very soon

[rugged wedge]

Heya, so I hope this is the right channel to put this in and reach out to. I currently have skills in testing automation, QA testing, and graphic design/digital art. I really would like to learn more programming and kind of combine the skillsets I have. I am unsure of what career track that would put me down though or what I should be looking at/for. Are there any suggestions for careers I can look forwards to?

[hearty island]

"visual coding"????

what does that mean

like web dev?

[vapid jay]

visual coding i guess like visual scripting like in godot game engine and unreal??

[hearty island]

idk

[vapid jay]

not sure about it

[hollow berry]

AHahha I dont know tbh

I guess I meant like artificial intelligence and other technoogy

will make coding easier

[hearty island]

oh

no

don't tell me you're one of the people who thinks AI is gonna automate coding

[hollow berry]

Nah

not automate it

but make knowing programming languages unnecessary perhaps

im not an expert so I shouldnt be saying much

[hearty island]

"knowing programming languages unecessary"

mmmmmm

idk about that

[hollow berry]

Yeah yeah

[hearty island]

whatever

[hollow berry]

It's good to learn

makes you understand the system

And it will always be relevant

but if you're just building an app or website

[hearty island]

LMAO

[hollow berry]

Ok

ill keep quiet

[delicate bane]

the thing is

how will you build the software youre talking about?

[hollow berry]

yes with code

[delicate bane]

bc technically that will need code

[hearty island]

you realize all those no code platforms require coders

[hollow berry]

yes of course

[hearty island]

and when those no code platforms break or require extra features there will still be coders

[hollow berry]

yes obviously

but the amount of people who are actually coding would lower then

[delicate bane]

i also think theres a culture element to it too. many people just dont want to think about coding even if it becomes easier to do with just like clicks and dragging

[hearty island]

click and drag platforms already exist

[delicate bane]

yes itll lower the barrier but idk if itll be enough to make it popular

yeah

[hollow berry]

Yup

[hollow berry]

theyre not nearly as good as actual programming though

[hearty island]

it's gonna be a long time till they're somewhat as good

[jolly furnace]

ai automating coding.....

when i look at tab9

and im like nah

[hollow berry]

Yeah

[little trellis]

AI makes coding easier for people who already know how to code

[delicate bane]

[little trellis]

Stuff like Kite is very helpful with AI assisted autocomplete

[hollow berry]

Do you use it?

[delicate bane]

maybe as autocomplete gets better, coders can learn other languages' syntax easier?

[little trellis]

I use kite all the time

[hearty island]

you don't learn syntax easier having an AI auto complete it for you

[jolly furnace]

i tried tab9 and it wasnt really helpful

[delicate bane]

i mean, at least youre exposed to it

[little trellis]

I mean someday soon if not today stuff like GPT3 will be able to generate very simple programs but that’s no problem

[hollow berry]

Yeah

[delicate bane]

that will just mean we work on the harder stuff

[junior marsh]

i want to be a computer scientist

[delicate bane]

ok

[hollow berry]

Good luck!

[delicate bane]

gl

[junior marsh]

i'm still in highschool

[little trellis]

The problem is, how do you mathematically represent something so complex like a program that interacts with multiple apis and databases in a way that a model could learn those relationships and how to produce it

[delicate bane]

do you want to be a computer scientist or do you want to be a programmer? those tend to be mixed up

[delicate bane]

maybe there will be an NLP breakthrough

really good word embeddings exist

that capture meanings and connotations of words

maybe they can do something similar for coding

[hearty island]

there's generated markup language

like you can change a web page and the HTML generated will change

doesn't mean that web devs are suddenly obscure

[little trellis]

At some point it’s just going to be reinventing code. If you have to feed certain text to a model to produce a program that’s still writing code, even if it’s a bit more simple

[hearty island]

web devs are needed more than ever

[delicate bane]

yeah

you will just have to figure out the inputs

[hearty island]

I don't need to worry about code automating my job until I'm probably 60

[little trellis]

If I can automate my job, I’d like to be the first to know so I can do that

Due to the nature of writing automation we’ll probably be the last to go. Besides managers haha

[hearty island]

project managers don't code but they have like a million other things to worry about

cooking?

there are restaurants with robots that make burgers now

I think

[delicate bane]

but then humans would be forced to get better at cooking

[hearty island]

um I think cashiers are gonna be gone soon

[delicate bane]

to compete with the robots

[hearty island]

sooner or later it's just gonna be check out machines instead of cashiers

[delicate bane]

so maybe overall skill level across all fields will increase if they dont get wiped out

oh yeah i saw a chart about that. "easiest jobs to automate"

[little trellis]

Yeah, for all intents and purposes cooking is already automated. We can press a button on our phone and get food to our door in a few minutes. Yet, a lot of people still find enjoyment in cooking or do it to save money.

We don’t capture any more value by automating cooking, only the owners of these establishments do. In that case we may save $2 on our burger at the cost of like 20% of people losing jobs

@chrome hamlet do you like Julia?

[hearty island]

no he actually likes C++

how'd you even get that wrong smh

[delicate bane]

yeah entertainment might actually become more popular since thats a very human thing

[little trellis]

Have you found it noticeably more suited/performant in the real world for your use cases?

Very interesting. I’ve been meaning to give it a shot as one of the next languages to check out but haven’t had a good reason to

[delicate bane]

this was interesting to see. maybe look in these industries if youre job searching?

[little trellis]

Makes sense because COVID. Not sure trend will increase at the same rate

Although a lot of that money and headcount will probably go back to things like cancer research that they were taken from before

Still, a very good and impactful area to be in as a Data Scientist/Engineer/ML Engineer

[hearty island]

AI is a very long way from becoming terminator levels

[delicate bane]

oh nice insight. didnt think about that. thats def skewed the data

this is why knowing the data itself is always important

also germany, netherlands, and france seem good if youre in the EU and looking for a masters program

[little trellis]

Very interesting. How is pay for data related fields on the EU?

[delicate bane]

i dont think they collected salary information but heres the 2021 report https://aiindex.stanford.edu/report/

feel free to take a look. theres plenty of data there

[little trellis]

Very cool

[delicate bane]

yeah lmk if you find anything interesting. i looked at only the charts lol

[little trellis]

For sure @delicate bane#435. I’ll take a deeper look through in like an hour after work

[burnt wadi]

would getting a job as a programmer be viable as an 18 year old with a-levels?
which language should I focus on to give me the best chance?

ping me please!

[timber tide]

Perhaps an internship, @burnt wadi .

[burnt wadi]

how long would an internship last

coding is my second passion, first is flying so i'd like to become a pilot someday

ideally i'd just code until 22/23 at latest to earn some money and a decent credit rating and file etcetcetc until i can afford at least up to CPL and ATPL exams

well

not necessarily that much

just as much as i can really

[timber tide]

Depends on the internship, maybe 3-5 months.

[burnt wadi]

after that, then what?

would I just become a normal employee?

[timber tide]

Well then you'd have experience, and you could try applying to entry positions, but just be aware a lot of places look for college graduates, despite it not actually being a good indicator of someone's abilities.

[burnt wadi]

yeah, sucks how everything rotates around school

[main thicket]

Not really many people here that know about it, an engineering server is better. But generally, take your courses in engineering analysis/numerical methods, domain specific stuff like structural mechanics, FEM and fracture mechanics type stuff for thermo/structural stuff, fluid mechanics and CFD for fluid Sim stuff. You'll probably end up wanting a PhD if you want to continue in the field for writing your own simulations. If you're okay being a domain expert and using existing simulation software, you're better off focusing on learning ANSYS etc

[main thicket]

no

Stop trusting youtubers, the people who make YouTube videos are the least qualified people to talk about careers. People who are qualified don't have the time to make YouTube videos

[timber tide]

Probably very niche and highly sought after it.

Most languages now'adays that are popular in development are open source, so if you wanted to get a step into that, you'd have to probably spend time contributing.

[digital fjord]

I saw this question asked before on another server, and I cannot claim the person who answered had any qualifications to do so.

It is a research position with mediocre pay you will mostly do out of passion for language design, not because it is a great job objectively.

@vapid jay please read our rule 5

[vapid jay]

okay

but im broke gamestop made me

[digital fjord]

nice

also, keep in mind that my source is literally "some dude on discord", so do your own research into it

[timber tide]

Have a look at the requirements, I imagine they're quite extensive for something like that.

[main thicket]

Language design isn't something Devs do, that's decided by communities as a whole and gets implemented by Devs.

Or decided by a researcher in the beginning

There's researchers that design fancy languages but that's a competitive research career that only exists in the big Bois and needs a PhD + good research

Compiler Dev is the next closest thing indeed

[main thicket]

Research positions, assuming you're at the big bois not academia, pay extremely well

[digital fjord]

that does make sense

[main thicket]

Other than the PhD requirement, that's a pretty reasonable qualification requirement

[timber tide]

Perhaps try look into internships relating to compilers.

[digital fjord]

also, those are some well written requirements.

[main thicket]

LLVM https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2457060518

Ooh GPU compiling https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2451110305

LinkedIn is so used to me that it gives me Robotics results even when I look up compilers, dang

[delicate bane]

they are. very specific. i like it

probs written by the dept head or something

instead of HR

[little reef]

what would be examples of great projects to put on my resume? [Python Developer]

i understand the basics and would love to build on it.

[graceful shuttle]

Louis Rossmann knows his stuff, and is upfront about the limits of his understandings. He also freely admits his past mistakes and errors in business

[jolly furnace]

i think the person is basically saying take what ppl say with a grain of salt

[vast sorrel]

is python a good language to learn if someone wants to pursue a career in robotics?

[graceful shuttle]

But the guy in that screenshot, I've seen his videos. His videos mostly focus on critiquing about hiring practices. I get a strong confirmation bias vibe from them. Seems like jaded outlook as well

[graceful shuttle]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. All vids in general should be taken with a grain of salt really

[main thicket]

Yes. Learn C++ also

And take a lot of subjects in maths and physics in uni (if you're not doing a mechanical/electrical engineering degree)

[jolly furnace]

real analysis

[main thicket]

Nah

Intro maths series (calc 1-3, diffeq, linalg, stats) + signal processing + control + optimisation theory are good to have down pat. You can take extra subjects in other stuff if you like.

[jolly furnace]

real analysis is only for the mathematically strong

[main thicket]

Physics wise you'll want a few mecheng dynamics subjects and a robotics subject that specifically goes over robot dynamics stuff

Real analysis is useless for mostly everyone

[jolly furnace]

seems for physics u just need to know euler equations

[main thicket]

And real analysis isn't that hard, lol, a few epsilons and deltas here and there isn't that tough

[main thicket]

No? Euler equations are so specific, why would you need those

[jolly furnace]

like those rigid body equations

for angular momentum

[main thicket]

Euler equations are specifically for free spinning rigid bodies. You'll want something more generic that works with things with multiple links. You'll generally learn a Newton Euler inverse dynamics algorithm + Lagrangian dynamics for deriving robot dynamics

[jolly furnace]

but im no robot expert. just i was told to look it up to model a rocket and most of the resources pertained to robotics

[main thicket]

I do robotics stuff and TA three relevant subjects at a university :P

[timber tide]

It's more than just that lol

[jolly furnace]

discovered quaternions recently

quite intresting

[main thicket]

I'm aware of what real analysis involves, tnx

It was an illogical suggestion of what maths subject to learn

It's irrelevant and generally useless

[timber tide]

I find it quite useful.

Certainly has applications to numerical analysis and relevant in complex analysis.

And in general it's usually your first introduction to rigorous math so makes modern algebra easier.

[main thicket]

This isn't a conversation about maths majors. Real world use wise, it's mostly useless unless you're publishing maths or control theory papers

This is a conversation about a career in robotics

[jolly furnace]

well i wouldnt say its useless

[sterile vault]

Quaternions aree sooo useful. Making stuff rotate in 3d with euler angles is a mess, with quaternions it's piss easy.
Obv, when you have a math lib to calculate them for you.

[main thicket]

It is for robotics. Can we drop the topic? It's not useful to robotics, so it's irrelevant. I don't need some maths major arguing with me what's useful for my field

[jolly furnace]

lmao idky ur so triggered

and im not even a math major

[main thicket]

Roboticists usually prefer rotation matrices or directly working in SO(3) or SE(3) lie algebras

Quaternions are hard to express dynamics in and hard for intuition

[hearty island]

@main thicket no in reference to what

[main thicket]

Software developer isn't really a subset of engineering because they're basically synonyms. DS and ML aren't really separate branches, if anything ML is within DS. "Hardware" isn't really an option within software developer, you can be embedded but that's still software.

And data scientists would not call themselves "software developers"

[crude crown]

Most definitely

[crude crown]

By default I wear pants or shorts if it's hot. But I've had meetings before only on my underwear in my whole body (camera was off though)

[main thicket]

The risk is if you accidentally turn it on

[haughty coral]

can someone please help me with an error

its so annoying

o

[peak halo]

@haughty coral this channel is for career discussion. See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[haughty coral]

ty

[peak halo]

@haughty coral I think you leaked your tokens. Please change them immediately.

[crude crown]

that's why I have a thingy that blocks my camera as well

[peak halo]

I deleted the screenshot though

[haughty coral]

shit how

ik

i rebirth

[peak halo]

@haughty coral change the password for that bot, I think.

[haughty coral]

nah i regenerated it

[peak halo]

That might be enough. I am not sure.

[marsh wind]

if they only leaked a token regenerating it is enough

[sterile vault]

Does Zoom have "blurred background" feature of skype? I don't want people on meetings/interviews see the mess behind my deesk.

[timber tide]

I think it does have something like that, at least you can set a blank background.

[main thicket]

Zoom has custom backgrounds

[hearty island]

You can turn into a cat

[ashen elk]

I saw something like that in google meet.

[hearty island]

I want to be a cat for zoom meetings

[timber tide]

Probably not the best idea for an interview.

[hearty island]

that would be funny

[ashen elk]

no Idea in zoom tho

[sterile vault]

Great, thanks.
The feature of getting cat ears like a twitch thot probably will make me appear less professional, unfortunately.

[timber tide]

Maybe avoid using that phrase, as it can be offensive.

[ashen elk]

the t-word?

[timber tide]

Yes.

[marsh wind]

assuming that many people even know that phrase 🙂 I had to google it lol

[timber tide]

@main thicket What languages do you use for embedded software in your field.

I was wondering if anyone you knew had used Ada.

[lucid vapor]

Yes, they do.

[main thicket]

C or C++. A startup or two here or there might use Rust (rare)

I know of Ada's existence and I know it's occasionally used in US defence

But Robotics is heavily C/C++

[pulsar bay]

I'm only a student in aerospace eng, but I've talked to a few industry seniors who've mentioned it here and there. I've been meaning to pick it up sometime. The rest I've seen is C, C++, and HDLs for the embedded stuff, and Python, Matlab, Tcl, and Fortran on the side.

[maiden solar]

good old days, I was doing CV for robotics using ROS for my final project

[pulsar bay]

Would you happen to know any good and concise resources on ROS? I have an interview comin up and the posting mentioned knowing it would be beneficial.

[main thicket]

the ROS tutorials are good

if it's not a new company learn ROS 1 instead of ROS 2

[maiden solar]

I think theres one website that dedicated only to teach you about ROS, idk for basic and introduction I was just watching yt videos

[main thicket]

The normal ROS tutorials are more than enough

ROS is really easy to learn compared to actual robotics stuff

[pulsar bay]

Hmm I see, that's good to hear. I'll take a look, thanks!

[ocean ledge]

that face haunts me

[hearty island]

these former google former facebook people that do DS/algos courses

it would be like if doctors and lawyers suddenly quit their fields and decided to do tutoring for the MCAT and LSAT respectively

[ocean ledge]

i mean, that is a thing

[hearty island]

like a bunch of them

[peak halo]

If there's a job application in the form of an online form, and there's an open answer section for a "cover letter", but the window for entering that text is small and doesn't even let you do line breaks, should I assume they don't actually want you to say very much?

because I could write a whole page explanation for why I think my experiences map to the expectations for this position, but I don't want to take that hour if they don't actually want that.

for context, this is the UI:

[main thicket]

Don't even bother putting anything honestly

In most places, cover letters are on the out

They probably put in that box in case there was something else to add to explain the resume

[peak halo]

there's a "summary" section above 🤷‍♂️

and for some reason they asked for a picture, so I just uploaded my headshot because it's on the internet anyway. but that's weird.

[pulsar bay]

That is pretty weird. I've heard a lot don't even consider resumes with headshots.

[hearty island]

What’s a headshot

[main thicket]

Headshots with resumes are common in Europe

[hearty island]

a picture?

[main thicket]

Is it a European company or a position in Europe?

[golden tundra]

A photo of your face

[hearty island]

oh I heard headshots are discouraged here

in the US

[golden tundra]

Generally, it is

It opens up potential discrimination issues

But it’s expected in some countries in Asia, for instance

[pulsar bay]

hmm, did not know it was common in Europe

[main thicket]

A lot of mainland Europe*

UK is barely Europe anyway

[hearty island]

But UK did the whole brexit thing

Or is that Britain

Idk

[young ivy]

lol

same country broski

[main thicket]

Not quite

[hearty island]

So does UK just include Britain

Does it include Ireland? And Scotland?

[golden tundra]

England isn’t the same as the UK, but the UK is Great Britain

The UK includes North Ireland, England, Wales, and Scotland

There’s also a separate Ireland

[hearty island]

oh

[peak halo]

I'd delete it, but my name makes it obvious enough that I'm a white man. So I'm not winning when it comes to diversity.

[main thicket]

Great Britain doesn't include Northern Ireland

[hearty island]

Sorry I didn’t mean to turn this into a geography converation

[peak halo]

Great Britain is the island with England, Scotland, and Wales on it.

[golden tundra]

I just checked - you’re correct, my mistake. Only the UK includes North Ireland

[main thicket]

Off topic

[golden tundra]

Frankly, “winning when it comes to diversity” is generally not the fear
The issue is more people discriminating against women and people of color. It’s more of losing when it comes to diversity

My personal opinion is that sending in a picture of yourself as a white man isn’t a great idea because 1: the subconscious biases of hiring people will probably work in your favor and 2: it pressures other people to send in their photos because it becomes more normalized. If they protest, they can be told the other applicants did it, why won’t they cooperate? Or even if that’s not said out loud, the hiring manager/HR may be thinking that and it makes them dislike people who are scared to send in their photos and perceive them as whiny or giving a hard time
Essentially, I think it perpetuates a bad system

In the same vein that someone from a wealthy family working for free or for a low salary sets a bad precedent because maybe the next person can’t afford such a low salary

I say this as someone who is theoretically a pretty good diversity hire and who has basically never benefited from it

In fact
My current job just took a sudden bad turn when someone realized what a great diversity hire I am

[peak halo]

So this basically becomes a philosophical question about whether or not someone should do something that advances their interests, even if it involves participating in a bad system, assuming that their non-compliance would not actually contribute towards the elimination of that system.

[golden tundra]

I actually would not make that assumption

I think your non compliance does contribute to the elimination of this system

Because people like you, who have a lot of privilege (at least facially) have a lot more capital to push back than people like me

[hearty island]

Well I’m Indian

Do they wanna see Indian people v white people?

I should probably delete my profile pic on LinkedIn

[pulsar bay]

Nah I think LinkedIn is a different deal. Everyone has it on there

[golden tundra]

Nope
I guarantee you’ll run into people at least thinking ugh, another Indian
At least subconsciously

I wouldn’t say delete your LinkedIn photo, but certainly don’t put it on resumes and if requested for a headshot, don’t if you can

Think of it a lot like college admissions

Asians get downgraded because people moan about seeing too many

Going back to the old conversation, @peak halo

It’s the same idea as when people say ambitious women are b*tches but it’s admired in a man, that a woman who remains composed after a tragedy is cold but an unemotional man is strong and assumed to be suffering heroically and stoically
It’s so much easier to fall afoul of favor as a minority. I fall in four minority categories, and there is so much scrutiny you deal with like that. It’s so easy for you to come off as too aggressive (for your category) and for people to think you’re not grateful for all that you have (with the implication that this is a privilege and not a given unlike your peers)
I do not think white men often realize the latitude with which they operate

I recognize that it’s not an easy thing to notice when you have it. I have privilege in a lot of ways myself compared to other people and I try to be conscious of it but don’t always succeed. For instance, I’m not Black, and I didn’t realize just how deeply different the scrutiny level is for Black people until last year even though I knew of a lot of tidbits.

I firmly believe that it’s the duty of those with more privilege to use that privilege for those with less. And that includes little things like pushing back on a request for a headshot when you know it’ll advantage you but it’ll disadvantage everyone who doesn’t look like you. People with less privilege will often not be comfortable pushing back. They have more to lose

[halcyon crown]

Does pip install * really exists? 😆

@chrome hamlet

[delicate bane]

As one of Benchling’s first data engineers, you’ll join a rapidly growing, world-class engineering team and form the foundation of our data pillar, encompassing internal analytics and product data science. You will build the next generation of our data infrastructure and enable the company to answer key questions and make better decisions.

ok one of the things ive heard is you never want to be the FIRST data person at a company

building an entire data infrastructure is not easy

then every person on the data team (or anybody that needs access to that data)that comes afterwards will complain about how you built it bc surprise surprise you dont have experience building data infrastructure for companies from the ground up

unless you do. then this would be the perfect job for you

[main thicket]

I would agree, building data pipelines and handling infrastructure is not fun work (for most)

[patent cave]

Thank you @mortal wedge

[vapid jay]

I don't know - I enjoy data engineering 😛 I enjoy the - I know your system is broken before you do cause you feeding me junk 😛

[patent cave]

@main thicket Thanx for your time. I am not comfortable with ANSYS, Creo, Catia even i am mechanical engineer. So that's why i chose Python. I am really appreciate your suggestion.

[coral stream]

Hey raggy you're here too!

[main thicket]

Realistically, there's

• work in creating fluid simulations <- this is only work done in specific scenarios, whether you're at ANSYS or other similar company, or in academia. You'll want a PhD in this work, and your work will be more mathy and numerical science focused
• work in using fluid simulations <- this is what most people in the field do, using ANSYS along with their knowledge of how CFD and real world fluid dynamics works to construct the right problems and boundary conditions and such and then judging whether it's a realistic answer or whether it's trash

the latter is done by a lot more people and doesn't necessarily need a PhD but you'll probably want a masters in aerospace in this type of area

You should never make your own ANSYS replacement in python, one because it's not fast enough even with numpy, and two because there's a lot of work that goes into it. If you have potential improvements, go modify OpenFOAM or some other complete open source implementatino

[main thicket]

I am everywhere

[coral stream]

Are u God?👀

[pulsar bay]

OpenFOAM is pretty cool. Good way to learn more about custom solvers.

[main thicket]

there are rumours

[coral stream]

bless me with your skills oh wise one

[patent cave]

@main thicket Noted your suggestion. Thank you.

[olive matrix]

but all of those countries have islands off great britain, so gb is a subset of those 3 countries

[delicate bane]

yeah but this is less data engineering and more data architecture, yknow? youre designing the whole system, deciding which tools to use, how everyone in the company will interface with the designed system, etc.

i mean if youre into that, more power to you dude. its just...the amount of work probably wont equal the salary given.

[scenic granite]

hello

i have a quesion for thi

Write the code in python that generates two random numbers and calculates their output

[raw torrent]

Hey not really related to coding, but when u changed ur name on Facebook, can people still find you with the old name?

[sterile vault]

Does anyone use Overleaf for resume? What are your favourite templates? Do you know of resource with curated list of good resume templates?
I used one, but it was a pain to tweak for myself. Maybe that's because of my inexperience with Latex.

[modern gust]

Guys I don't have a degree in computer science but I have learnt python from internet and W3 school

Can I get job anywhere? Btw I'm 20 yrs old

[timber tide]

I'd recommend trying a template at first but when you get more experience with LaTeX try building one yourself.

[astral sable]

hey guys

whats up

was wondering if it was easy to learn python

[molten lark]

idk

but maybe with the help of this server discord and https://www.w3schools.com

it might make your life more easier

[sterile vault]

Check discourse resources.
Yes, Python is one of the easier and more readable programming language.
No, learning "Python" involves learning a whole stack of technologies and skills where language syntax is probably one of the easier one.

@timber tide I'm modifying the one I took (usually adding or removing fields), but I'm hopeless at design stuff - margins, fonts, colors, ect.

[little trellis]

Correct, this is the job of a team of people. It can take years to do properly even with that for a large company.

[hearty island]

@delicate bane non profit I worked at was asking me to make data pipelines and I was like 😐

They also wanted me to call hospitals and ask if I could use their data

😐😐😐

[true turtle]

@vapid jay Hello, we do not allow recruitment on this server. There are better avenues to advertise. You can dm @severe widget if you are confused by this and want clarification.

[delicate bane]

💀

ah yes, lets all violate HIPAA together

i applied to more internships last night

[hearty island]

good shit

what do product manager interns even do

like as an intern how much tech stacks do you even know

serious question

who are you even "managing"?

[vapid jay]

pip install pip

[hushed ridge]

Anyone working on some project on Pandas? - Data Analysis Project or Supply Chain/Operations Management thing; I would like to contribute and learn please.

[peak halo]

I signed up for a career event that my university suggested, but no one said you need a Microsoft Teams account to attend

I wouldn't have signed up had I known that.

[hearty island]

isn't it free?

[lucid vapor]

It's free though?

[hearty island]

oh do you mean you wanted it to be in person?

[peak halo]

I thought it would be zoom, or literally anything other than Microsoft Teams

[hearty island]

yeah I'm surprised it's Microsoft Teams

[delicate bane]

my stats prof uses Microsoft Teams

[hearty island]

I only used Microsoft Teams for interviews

[delicate bane]

but only for communication

[hearty island]

I don't understand how it's any better than Zoom

[peak halo]

I at least have a Zoom account and have used it more than 0 times.

[delicate bane]

[peak halo]

I hate zoom too, though

[hearty island]

eh if you wanna attend it you can make a microsoft teams account quickly

still sucks that the event didn't even say it would be on microsoft teams

kind of unprofessional

[peak halo]

I finally got to a point where I have a Teams account

now nothing happens when I try to join the event

[hearty island]

oh boy

is there a way you can talk to the organizer?

[peak halo]

Don't care anymore. I un-registered for the event

I have other things to do.

[hearty island]

I don't really think these online career events are very effective

I've been in multiple

it's just everyone trying to say insightful things so that the organizer notices them

my career advisor was like oh you should message them on linkedin about something they said after but that never works either

you and the other people who attended the meeting are all doing the same exact thing

[marsh wind]

Teams become more and more widespread

microsoft pushes it a lot on everyone they can it seems

interestingly, our company ones did a presentation as part of some event on discord 🙂

[hearty island]

I think Canon uses Microsoft Teams too

[open salmon]

Hi

how are you guys?

[noble lintel]

Curious what y'all's retention policies are on git branches. I have hundreds because I never delete them for issues that I work on. Wondering if y'all delete as you go (when they are merged with production) or if you have a "spring cleaning" every once in a while. I figure it just takes up unnecessary time to delete branches as I go.

[sterile vault]

I'm using Teams. Screen sharing a selected app is cool, and I think the video calls are nicer than Skype.
One thing that grinds my gears is that you can't see new Outlook messages on the same account through Teams.

[marsh wind]

yeah skype sucks

[sterile vault]

Actually, the thing that sucks the most is messenger proliferation. I'm using telegram, discord and slack for professional communities and personal stuff, whatsapp and skype for personal communication, teams for a certain project and I may be forced to reinstall Zoom for interviews.

[noble lintel]

Sure but the branch exists in your local repo too. I'm asking about personal git repo hygiene. All git branches correspond to a ticket if they expect to be merged with the main branch in production.

[limber rampart]

I keep my local branches as clean as I can and prune the remotes once in a while

[peak halo]

I found a data scientist listing that says that the primary language will be R

I'm not sure if I should just assume that that's not true or what

like I've never seen a listing like that

[hearty island]

My Cuna mutual group internship said they were coding in R instead of python

They said it wasn’t very hard to learn

[peak halo]

it probably isn't, but it doesn't have nearly the ecosystem that python has

[sterile vault]

R is damn huge. In bioinformatics, it stands toe-to-toe with Python. However, it's extremely niche.
I'd expect that job to focus on classical statistics and/or data visualisation rather than building data pipelines or training ML models.

[limber rampart]

The stats people at my company use R

[hearty island]

Is R object oriented

[digital fjord]

pretty much yes, though the model is afaik quite different from python

and yeah, in some areas R has a bigger ecosystem than python

[hearty island]

What’s an ecosystem

I keep seeing people use that term

Like uses?

Uses of the language?

[summer roost]

Libraries and tools available for use with the language

[hearty island]

Oh

hey at least they didn’t say they were gonna use Octave

[limber rampart]

As in nature, a healthy ecosystem of actively maintained libraries will make it easier for new development to take place

[hearty island]

oh ok

[sterile vault]

But still. 1-indexed arrays.

[summer roost]

Bash splits the difference. You can index an array by either 0 or 1 to get the first element.

[sterile vault]

Sometimes I think "I should learn bash a bit more". Then I look at its syntax.

[true harness]

wait so it's just, 0, 2?

[delicate bane]

i have seen listings like it. biostats/pharma/CDC mostly only use R

R actually has a ton of nifty libraries

especially if youre doing stats work

bayesian time series https://google.github.io/CausalImpact/CausalImpact.html

idk the python equivalent

[hearty island]

Does R have stuff like pandas

[delicate bane]

yes its in the base R package

data.frame

[hearty island]

nice

[summer roost]

Or 1, 2 if you prefer!

[proud cradle]

what jobs could I get if I learn python

bruh 💀

@obtuse thorn

[blazing dew]

!pban 806257884320628808

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied purge ban to @livid ore permanently.

[proud cradle]

thanks

[blazing dew]

@proud cradle If you need moderation assistance, ping the moderators role.

[proud cradle]

oh thanks I didn't know

[blazing dew]

ye np

have a good one m8

[proud cradle]

you two

[summer roost]

Python is used in a lot of different areas - data science, machine learning, web development, automation, and microservices being some of the biggest areas.

it's one of the easier programming languages to learn, and sets you up well to learn others, as well. Most professional programmers know and use several different languages.

[peak halo]

right, but if you want to integrate your stats stuff into some other software, aren't you basically SOL?

[delicate bane]

welp. all i have to say is if you need to work between R and python data scientists, feather is a cool tool https://github.com/wesm/feather

it even has Julia now

[vapid jay]

@hearty island tell me, is it easy to find an remote internship in US through job portals or network?

[hearty island]

@vapid jay nope

I applied to like 400 positions before I got 2 interviews

[vapid jay]

In the US? 😳

I mean we have such competition here in India. But also in US !!

[hearty island]

Coding is getting more and more mainstream in the US too

[vapid jay]

But I guess you're looking for an paid one. What about unpaid, curiously to learn.

[hearty island]

I don’t work for free

I have had some very bad experiences

working for free

[vapid jay]

Yeah I read that Music app company's task.

Lack of opportunities is another level of failure 😂

[hearty island]

I worked for this company that was gonna use machine learning to predict where medical supplies will be needed and when

Well

They wanted me to create data pipelines, manage people, write web scraping applications, and call hospitals and ask to use their data

I’m sorry but I’m not doing all that work for free

It was just 2 “data scientists” including me

[vapid jay]

For free!!! This is absolutely abusing needy candidates.
We understand that being an intern, someone can be a part of the process, not the whole process itself.

[hearty island]

He was like yeah I’ll pay once we get monetized

Bruh

so I’ll work for free and I’ll never know when I get paid?

dude himself didn’t have any coding experience at all so he was mostly just a figurehead

[vapid jay]

Was he from technical background, or just someone who got an idea when he's high 😂. JK.

No-one should abuse anyone specially unemployed guys man. It hurts

[hearty island]

I had to block him on LinkedIn bc he kept DMing me

He was in engineering

[vapid jay]

Yeah i get it.

[hearty island]

it annoys me when companies don’t put how much they’d be paying for an internship

like you can filter it on LinkedIn but I don’t know if it converts the per hour to per year

[vapid jay]

I was once approached for internship of 6 months tenure. In which first 3 months were unpaid, next 2 months were merely paid and as they said, i quote "Final month would be performance review, if your first few months were productive you'll get permanent else kicked".

Now as per Glassdoor reviews. That company used to lure candidates by promising permanent positions. And then kick interns between 3-5 months

[hearty island]

So they have you largely working for free

everyone’s like

Oh if you complain so much about internships

Why not start your own company and employ yourself

Do they even know how hard entrepreneurship is??

[vapid jay]

Exactly.
And freelancing is getting harder day by day for ML, BI guys

[hearty island]

getting a good idea itself takes years

lots of planning

and where are you getting the money for an office space and stuff

I don’t think people realize how ridiculous they are when they say shit like that

this isn’t Silicon Valley (the show)

[vapid jay]

My friend have to do work positions which requires Phd guys. She's creating parcers, libraries like a core data scientist for a Business Analyst job

[vapid jay]

Even though you get an idea, converting and explaining that to investors in the competitive scenario is even harder

[hearty island]

Oh boy

Venture capitalists

they hear lots of pitches every day

[delicate bane]

is that common in india?

pretty sure that would be illegal here

fair labor standards act or whatever

[proud cradle]

oh ok what language should I learn after python (which is my first)

[abstract breach]

Where is here?

[vapid jay]

Definitely. College placements are mostly like that. You get an offer, in which they'll clearly mention, that for first 8 months you'll be paid basic salary, after that what ever the ctc mentioned. Its called probation. But even after 8 months they'll not, reasons like HR's being busy or new goals for company.

And employee would definitely wait for next 4 months in hope, cause less that an year experience isn't worth here

[vapid jay]

That is the part where some of them too abuses entrepreneur's condition. By providing deals like 51% share holding or more than 50% profits.

[summer roost]

If you want to do web development or app development, JavaScript. If you're interested in backend programming or operating systems, C. For a few random recommendations.

But it really depends on what exactly you're interested in, and what direction you want to go.

[delicate bane]

is that why so many people leave the country and find better work abroad?

bc domestic work is like that?

[vapid jay]

One of the factor probably. Being an overpopulated, third world country, with many ethical issues in corporate, sums up most of the factor.

[delicate bane]

that would make sense

if only government cared

that brain drain

[vapid jay]

They do understand that. I was mentored by one of the finest Ramanujam fellow, during my research. Basically this fellowship is for those who want to serve country and leave their foreign jobs and come to Indian institutions.

But the rate of civilians shifting to foreign and coming back to india is like 1000:1 or nearby.

[delicate bane]

🕯️

[digital owl]

which one is ideal to choose:

1. company A which is quite big and in AI domain but paying less(also near to home)
2. company B which is small and in Logistics domain but paying more(not near to home)

[vapid jay]

My preference would be in logistics domain. Reason being, transformation of a physical / tangible domain with technology is what the world will be needing in next decade.

Lots of scope and definitely ML boom in that domain

[delicate bane]

a tale of 2 parts:
part 1)

Job Functions / Responsibilities
Migrate production data to the cloud and develop production dashboards to improve equipment and operations data analysis leveraging tools

part 2)

[stark crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-gif-18386377

Big Data help?

[vapid jay]

[vapid jay]

If it was in india, there would have been, easily 7-10k applicants 😂😂

[fiery sluice]

I want to ask a question to all of you out there. I live in Bangladesh. I want to get a job at FAANG companies. But I can't afford to go to a foregin counrty for an interview. Can I get a job in those country via online interview? If not then there is no need for me to continue learning programming if I can't get a job.

[pulsar drum]

Why are you giving yourself this ultimatum? FAANG are not the only places that offer good positions.

[abstract night]

even regular programmers can easily get paid $50k in the US

usually more

yee, I figured it could influence @fiery sluice's decision making process

considering the average wage in Bangladesh is $3,681

per year

[delicate bane]

"faang or no programming"

[shell minnow]

I don't think those huge companies would be nice places to work… at least three of them are evil

[fiery sluice]

That's not What I mean by that

I wanted to say this If I cant get a job to run my family then there is no need for me to coutinue

I know sorry I write this wrong

[pulsar drum]

Anyway I'm not familiar with how it goes for those specific companies, but I have been told before that generally, if a company is seriously interested in you, they'll pay to fly you in for an in person interview. This would be after you've already done remote interviews.

Though I'm guessing that only applies to larger companies.

[fiery sluice]

Well, the main thing I asked that. Can I get a job via online interview

You know going to a foreign and doing the interview and there is no grauntee that you will able to land a job The main thing is it's very costly.

[main thicket]

For reference, FAANGs pay for your flights to and from your interview + accommodation for a day

But yes, nowadays most interviews are online for Covid

[glad tulip]

you can get a higher salary in rich countries

[delicate moon]

Probably already spoken 100s of times but, how possible is it to get career with only python (lets say u dont have data sience PhD etc.) What would be typical career path with python, are there othel languagea I should learn to get a job? Thanks for reading

[maiden solar]

depends, if you lower you bar you probably will get some

[delicate moon]

okey, thanks for response ♥.
How about when I should start seeking for job [i mean how much skill i need](and what kind of jobs). How much experiense would man need to get job related to IT / coding typically. Im not so much into the pay but experience. I know that there is no right answer to this but if u / someone can say something about this.

[limber rampart]

you can always have a look at work opportunities in your area that involve Python, you will be able to see what kind of experience the entry-level jobs expect and what other skills are commonly mentioned

[maiden solar]

Python has a such wide array of projects you would focus on, whether your project is a prototype, desktop software, web application, or AI/data related

[craggy elm]

anyone else bored of the "find a mentor" ideal? i kept hearing it whenever i interned, but now when i work, not a peep lol it's like there's some implicit assumption that you should always find someone to guide you, when i think that you should be guiding yourself. it's your life, after all

[hearty island]

Well

I reached out to a lot of alumni to be my “mentor”

they were all like yeah sorry I don’t really have time for this

[digital fjord]

There is value in having a single person you can direct your questions about a domain about without worrying about whether you are bothering them too much and such.

but well, a lot of people don't have that time

[hearty island]

I don’t really need a mentor when I have this server

[craggy elm]

im not saying there's 0 value in it; im saying that the odds of finding someone like you described are thin at best for the reason you described, so it's like setting an ideal that cant realistically be achieved

i also dislike the notion that there's a need for someone to help guide my career lol im an adult who can figure out what i want my career to be on my own

[delicate bane]

some people find mentors at jobs. just someone more senior than them. doesnt have to be like a perfect know it all

[marsh wind]

yeah. Also it is not about im an adult who can figure out what i want my career to be on my own

it's more about:

1. Ask any questions you have to them
2. Receiving an advice if you are going into wrong direction

[delicate bane]

i dont see mentors as career counselors just someone who can help you save time in telling you what works for X,Y,Z and what doesnt

[open path]

does anyone here have an Elitmus account or works at yugabyte i am looking for refferals.

[hearty island]

we don't give out referrals here

[open path]

oh sorry

[hearty island]

it's ok

[leaden shoal]

whats the best way to learn python for data science?
is it better to learn forreal through vids and tutorials and documentations
or through searching every single problem on stackoverflow your whole career
or combination of both

given that i have a job at a small business that has a lot of data and i can basically do any tasks there
i have a basic understanding of pythons (one intro college course)

[hearty island]

data science so how are your math skills?

[leaden shoal]

A level math, AP Calc BC, AP Stats

[iron junco]

How many years experience does the average senior developer have?

[hearty island]

@leaden shoal data science shouldn’t be that bad then

[pine tiger]

so i was getting back into learning python from the basics again just recently, but when i go on youtube people usually start with html and css, then go on to like javascript for web dev, should i still continue with python then go on to like the front end stuff

[hearty island]

Isn’t a levels math like UK

or something

a levels is also very hard

I heard

[shut linden]

@leaden shoal I would recommend doing a course or thorough tutorial. Knowing how you're supposed to do things instead of just that you can do things a certain way valuable. Can you loop through a dataframe? Sure. Should you? Probably not.

[leaden shoal]

AS level 9th grade
AS and A level 10th grade
A level 11th grade
Calc BC 12th grade

[leaden shoal]

Hahaha

[hearty island]

Try the Stanford ML course

it’s good for you Bc you have the basics already

[shut linden]

Also, a good way to get comfortable with python and data science is to get your hands on data and then try to pull out insights from it. Kaggle has some datasets that are decent for this.

[hearty island]

Idk if a levels cover linear algebra

[shut linden]

You could jump straight into Machine Learning, but honestly, most people just need a good algorithm that's smart about how it looks at data, not a full-up neural network.

[peak halo]

You need to know things about math in addition to calculus and statistics to do data science.

[hearty island]

linear algebra?

[peak halo]

Yes

[hearty island]

yeah I assumed A levels covered linear algebra

[peak halo]

And it doesn't necessarily stop there either.

[hearty island]

ok then

my bad

discrete maths would also be good too

[timber tide]

I imagine numerical analysis being quite useful.

[peak halo]

I just got an interview request, and I was informed that I'd be speaking to a "hiring manager". But the email said "phone screening". I don't know what that means for what technical questions I should expect, if any.

[delicate bane]

which book

i had a phone screening but it was all behavioral questions. no technical ones.

[peak halo]

isn't the "hiring manager" usually the one you'd end up reporting to?

[delicate bane]

yeah so it seems you have conflicting information. bc when i talked to the hiring manager after the phone screening, it was almost all technical questions

[main thicket]

Hiring manager is usually non technical recruitment

[delicate bane]

oh

then i didnt have one

just to the boss man then

[delicate bane]

who does technical recruitment then

[main thicket]

Generally you have recruiters who do reach out and stuff to find candidates, hiring managers make decisions about recruiting and hiring, the interviews are taken by someone on the technical side either a random Dev or a technical manager

[delicate bane]

ah i had a technical manager thats what it was

and thanks for the info raggy

[main thicket]

Nw. This varies a lot between companies though

[delicate bane]

[main thicket]

Some companies like Microsoft can have a lot more involvement of high level technical managers

Places like Google have the whole weird hiring selection committee thing

[timber tide]

Phone screening is really like straight forward in my experience.

They ask really basic questions.

Often times given by someone who has no technical expertise if it's a large company.

[peak halo]

I assume as long as I don't give off psycho vibes, they'll then schedule me for a technical interview?

[timber tide]

Yeah they just want to make sure you're a programmer. Haha

[peak halo]

the screening or the technical interview?

[timber tide]

The phone screening so they know the interview isn't a waste of time.

I've had phone screenings given by both technical and non technical people. I think both asked "what is a singleton"

[peak halo]

welp

[timber tide]

Yeah just super basic questions that could be answered in a few short words or a single sentence.

[vapid jay]

Can someone program for me a tank game in scratch? im paying

[peak halo]

Please refer to the #rules that you accepted when you joined this community. Offering to pay for services is not allowed.

[vapid jay]

Ouh okay

But free is okay or?

[peak halo]

You can ask for help making a tank game in #game-development

[vapid jay]

Okay thank you

[delicate bane]

i just applied for an internship like 2 days ago and they already want me to sign a NDA before they even continue the process..?

🥴

[marsh wind]

huh

[delicate bane]

non-disclosure agreement. i guess the people who dont sign dont even get an interview?

[hearty island]

I only had to sign a NDA for an offer letter

[marsh wind]

thats why i said huh

cause unusual

[delicate bane]

thats what i thought it usually was

[hearty island]

but it's not like I learned how the product works anyways

[delicate bane]

where*

[hearty island]

marketing people don't know anything anything specific implementation wise about product they market on

[delicate bane]

maybe its just one of those admin things then

[hearty island]

yeah I don't know why they're having you sign a NDA

does the company think they're doing something revolutionary?

or that it'll change the competitive landscape forever?

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

yeah dude idk

[delicate bane]

i guess its fine if i do it right?

[hearty island]

that was the reason why they made me sign a NDA for my internship

yeah I'm sure it's fine

[delicate bane]

ok

im doing it

[hearty island]

also the marketing internship I signed a NDA for was about a money saving app

like

not very revolutionary there kiddo

[delicate bane]

oh. this says i need to sign this before i do a phone screen..?

[hearty island]

shady

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

never had a company do that before

[delicate bane]

i feel like they shouldnt be sharing stuff at this stage

[marsh wind]

maybe they don't know to shut up in time 😁

[delicate bane]

maybe someone told their competitor info when they didnt get the offer

💀

hmm i dont have a business title so i dont know what to put in this last section

ig it doesnt matter

[ocean ledge]

you got a job @hearty island ? congrats!

[hearty island]

@ocean ledge no I didn’t get a job

[ocean ledge]

oh

F

[hearty island]

I wish

[little mortar]

Does anyone know any good beginner jobs for new coders?

[main thicket]

That's dumb, is it a startup

Sounds like a dumb startup thing

Although some companies make you sign interview question NDAs

which I think is equally dumb but more justified for a more competitive company

[burnt wren]

How important is it to have a twitter account if you are aiming for a remote entry-level software engineering position?

I have super limited time and I wouldn't want to manage a twitter account if it's not going to have a big impact. OTOH, I can imagine posting tweets regularly to share what I've been learning lately or insights I have.

[vapid jay]

I don't sign NDAs until I'm agreeing to get paid. If I sign your NDA, but then have the same idea as you, and would have had it anyway, I've signed away my right to use that idea

[vapid jay]

I've never had to maintain any social media accounts, or contribute to open source. I just started by using headhunters, ymmv

[main thicket]

not at all?

no one cares if you have a twitter or not

[burnt wren]

IKR. "Standout Developer" talks about having an online presence and following. Or maybe that changes the context a bit.

[burnt wren]

headhunters?

[vapid jay]

yeah, aka temp agencies

which may also be consulting firms, that happens too

[main thicket]

I have no idea what Standout Developer is but don't bother buying into one of those getting-job resources, most of them are trash because people who get jobs dont make helping others get jobs their jobs

There's very few job focused resources in the world that are actually worth using. Stuff like CTCi etc

[vapid jay]

i don't know where you are, but here in the US, in my general area, there a whole LOT of temp services/consulting agencies looking for programmers

a lot of businesses don't know how to hire programmers, so they outsource the hiring to headhunters

[burnt wren]

Yep. Absolutely. I only looked at the TOC.

[burnt wren]

And you started your career there. Or only when you had experience already?

[delicate bane]

says its founded in 1999 but only has 500-1000 employees

[vapid jay]

I went around to my friends who had startups, made them all web sites for cheap using the technologies I wanted a job in, put those on my resume, submitted it to a temp service, now I can get a job whenever I want, but I'm playing independent contractor right now.

I'm not talking serious startups, either, I'm talking super-small non-profit community service organizations, or friends who were selling t-shirts and didn't have an online presence

[delicate bane]

hey web dev is still a sought after skill

[burnt wren]

Cool. Thanks for your help @vapid jay !

[vapid jay]

no sweat 🙂

[little trellis]

Kinda weird to have to sign an NDA for a phone screen. Never seen that before.

[hearty island]

hey guys

would you recommend pramp.com?

nvm it costs money hell no

[delicate bane]

yeah it is weird

[brittle meteor]

Hey everyone, I wanted to simply ask a question about python use in industry. For a software engineer, how important is it to know python? Is it used heavily in the industry or is it more so a data science/web development language. If I am more so interested in ML roles and web dev roles, what should I mainly focus on? I know python is used pretty heavily in ML but was also wondering about its place in App development and web development. Thank you so much and I apologize if the questions were very noob like

[hearty island]

I know SWE people who use python

[lucid vapor]

In web development, Python is there, but it's often not the primary language.

Some apps may not use it, simply because they prefer languages like HTML, CSS, or JavaScript for web dev.

But it can be used.

[hearty island]

JavaScript tends to be used more frequently

I’ve seen a lot of web dev people stress JavaScript over python

[lucid vapor]

Yeah, because Python is aimed more towards backend.

[hearty island]

Yeah

you can also use node js for the backend too

(I think)

I haven’t done anything web dev related for a while

[lucid vapor]

Yes, you can use node.js for backend.

[hearty island]

DS/algos is really soaking up my time

[fiery sluice]

Man, Thanks to all of you. I regained my cool again. Yesterday I watched some video about this. Right now I am out of confusion thanks.

[grizzled tundra]

Depends on what you wanna build actually

[grizzled tundra]

That's what we're here for, brother.

[brittle meteor]

Thank you @hearty island @lucid vapor for the responses. And If possible, could you ellaborate a little bit more @grizzled tundra

[grizzled tundra]

Well, if you wanna build cloud-native application, like the ones that Microsoft has with Office 365, then you gotta use React or Angular as the front-end

And in the backend, the technologies differ from organizations to organizations

From what I've seen Java is very heavily used for enterprise applications

But if you wanna learn desktop apps, you can choose between Java, Python, C# etc

JS is also used to build desktop apps these days

What do you wanna build?

[brittle meteor]

hmm i mean i personally am really into ML and also wanna do something with Web Apps

so i would really like to combine the 2

by either using react for front end and python for backend/ML tasks

[grizzled tundra]

Yeah, if you wanna do both ML and Web Dev, you can go with python

[brittle meteor]

Thank you!

[visual walrus]

Hi guys! How're you all doing today?

Anyways. I've got a question. How do I turn a list into a string value so I can print it without the characters in it being separated?

[true harness]

@visual walrus check out str.join. also, this isn't the right channel for this, check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[visual walrus]

I know there are many help channels but I don't wan tot occupy one over something this simple

[marsh wind]

for simple stuff you can use #python-discussion @visual walrus

[visual walrus]

Ohhh. I thought this one was the general ._.

[visual walrus]

Thanks..

[dark lintel]

Hey

Is anyone free for quick DM advice?

[hearty island]

what if you had the fibonacci sequence

but the two adjacent numbers multiplied to the next number

[vapid jay]

Can someone advise me on how to apply for twitter developers

[fickle crater]

hmmmmmmm, not super complicated ig, u'd replace + with *

[hearty island]

yeah

oh no this isn't algos/DS

sorry

would it be a good idea to ask if there will be any mentorship offered at the company?

like if you'd be working with a team

bc if it's a mostly non tech company that means you're going to have to do basically everything and have no one to ask questions

[near ocean]

Whats the point then

[hearty island]

don't apply to non-tech companies

[true harness]

what starting values would you use?

[hearty island]

0,1,0,2,0

oh shit

lmao

[delicate bane]

i asked that but i also got a weird answer

[hearty island]

what did they say

[unkempt sandal]

is there any way i can make money by coding

as a 17 year old who doesn't wanna work at a fast food place or target

[lucid vapor]

There are some paid internships you could do.

[ashen elk]

people usually take internships at these places so its easier to get a job later on 🤷

not to necessarily earn money since they pay peanuts anyways

[hearty island]

you will probably get paid more by target

[primal quartz]

is it helpful to learn how to code if i am an accounting student?

[near ocean]

yes

[primal quartz]

so how should i start learning?

[hearty island]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[hearty island]

Automate the Boring Stuff is a good start

[primal quartz]

which one should i start with? python, c++ or html?

[hearty island]

python

HTML is insignificant unless you're doing web dev

HTML has no logic or variables so it won't even help you learn Python

it's a markup language

[primal quartz]

okay

what about c++?

[hearty island]

python is more beginner friendly than C++

the syntax is a lot easier to read

[primal quartz]

alright, thank you!

[silk flax]

im broke

thats my career so far