career-advice

[arctic geode]

video games searching web etc..

[blissful viper]

Oh nice

[arctic geode]

i should make it see as hobby or smth for myself

otherwise it would be felt heavy on me u know

or i get distracted easily etc

[blissful viper]

2 hours or an hour a day consistently is enough

[arctic geode]

atleast for beginning yeah

when i realise i can get more t han i thought

then i increase the time

[blissful viper]

Yup

I haven’t opened my IDE in a month school is killing me

😓

[arctic geode]

well im 26 and i quit everything lol

from job school

just waiting for millitary serve

[blissful viper]

military...damn

[arctic geode]

until then i need to do somethings for my life

yeah its must

u know

i have to go for 6 months or 1 year

[blissful viper]

Sorry what country is that

[arctic geode]

Türkiye

[blissful viper]

Oh

[arctic geode]

when u hit to 18 u should go u can put off it for a few years once if ur not studying etc

when u study at college etc then system otomaticly cancels ur millitary serve

then after u finished ur college u still have a few years to go

until 30

all had to done at 30 about serving at millitary

max 30 so , im not a student or smth im just waiting my time to go :p

[blissful viper]

I hope it goes well for you then

👍👍

[main thicket]

Can be if you're into that. I'm not into it, most robotics isn't vision

[arctic geode]

hope so :p

[mortal wedge]

For people who are in a more managerial role or who are getting moved into such, how did you learn how to do things?

My boss is slowly putting more managerial work on to me and it's like... it's not something I ever really learned anywhere

So I kind of suck at it, but I would like not to suck

Is there a magic trick to get people to do things? Lol

[marsh wind]

no

no tricks, you just have to be able to find a common ground and good understanding both with team and with your client/superiors

[main thicket]

What sort of manegarial stuff is he moving on you

[mortal wedge]

Interacting with other department heads occasionally delegating tasks to them

[main thicket]

Not that I have any experience or know what you're talking about but some things you learn naturally over time as you become more senior, some things have more things to learn separately.

You should be able to interact with department heads. If you understand what needs to be done and you can prioritise, you should be able to delegate hopefully?

[marsh wind]

ie if you want to run some agile/scrum like team you need to learn a bit the methodology

but being able to plan ahead, prioritise and compromise it vital

[main thicket]

Yeah basic interaction and social skills should be natural, knowledge of how stuff works should be natural. Effective project management and decision making on the other hand is worth reading about

[marsh wind]

Also, learn to say no

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, one of my managerial tasks this week was to get task X done from a department head. On Monday he said "This is easy I can do this no problem, etc etc"

Then he has been dodging me all week.

I had to escalate to my manager today who managed to get the task done by him

But it's just frustrating and I don't know what else I could have done to get the task done by him sooner

[graceful shuttle]

I've been given more managerial tasks lately myself

[mortal wedge]

Nice. I think it's a good sign regarding what your company thinks of you, but...

[graceful shuttle]

This book has a couple chapters on when to say 'No' and when to say 'Yes'

https://g.co/kgs/HH4TNX

[mortal wedge]

I'll take a look

[graceful shuttle]

Are you in the position where you have been asked to do things without being given the authority to do them? That's a really tough spot to be in

[mortal wedge]

and absolutely

[marsh wind]

That's sometimes inevitable

[mortal wedge]

Because this department head is someone who's brilliant and is an asset to the company, but nobody really knows how to or wants to interact with him.

I'm the only one who's really shown any interest/skill in getting him to do anything

But ultimately, I have no real authority over him

[graceful shuttle]

Yeah, that's the rub then

[marsh wind]

We have clients who has to do some stuff on their side to interact with our app. To the point that it was blocking so in the end it was escalated to our CEO and their tech director

[graceful shuttle]

If you don't have direct authority over someone, and you can't achieve the outcome diplomatically, I really see no other solution outside of escalation

It sucks to "escalate" because it has a negative connotation to it. But you've got tasks to complete and someone dragging their feet hurts more than just themselves

[main thicket]

Indeed. That wasn't a problem with you, just a problem with your authority.

Don't feel bad about it

[graceful shuttle]

If you want to think of it positively, you have to become "the driver". The person who drives forward the necessary steps

And escalation is a calculated risk, but when you're moving up the ranks those seem to become more prevalent

[marsh wind]

Also sometimes people just don't understand priorities

That was my case there. That guy was always busy with something so for him our shit was always second

[graceful shuttle]

Managerial stuff is not like technical work. There's really no black and white answers to a lot of things

[marsh wind]

And for him it was not enough that I said it's important because he's not even in my company so

[delicate bane]

@mortal wedge ive heard great things about this book from a couple of podcasts. its also specifically for the tech industry so maybe take a peek and see if its relevant to you https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897

[coral fog]

Hi guys/girls, I recently decided to quit my job (totally other field) and I'm trying a new voyage in the python world. I would like to work in AI. Any advice to build my career in this field?

[marsh wind]

Depends on your past experience and degree I suppose

[crude crown]

Totally understand you there. It's important not to corner yourself into a niche that's too... niche.

[coral fog]

I'm totally newbie but I'm attending some courses of python and I have time; I come from humanities (MA in history), so basically I'm starting from zero

[timber tide]

@coral fog That sounds awesome! It's really cool you're learning another domain.

[crude crown]

No such thing unfortunately. It's hard to make people do things for you... but if you're charismatic and inspire trust on them it gets easier.

Also, long time no hear UltimateChaos 😄

[crude crown]

Then you need to influence him and manage "up" or "sideways"

[coral fog]

thank you for the support 🙂 I know it will be hard but I love to learn new things. Is there some team/group/project which I can join? I need some practice and to learn from others

[ember rock]

I am in need of some help. I am currently a college student as a software engineer and I am soon to be looking for a internship. I am currently struggling find the career path for me. It’s like I don’t know the names of the jobs or what is possible. My ideal job would be to travel the world and create automation solutions for companies but I don’t think those jobs exist. Anyone know something similar or at least a job with automation?

[graceful shuttle]

https://www.codetriage.com

[graceful shuttle]

Sounds like you'd want to look for a career in consulting, since you want to travel

Consultants will travel if they have a very in-demand skill set that not a lot of other people have

Or you could try to find a remote job as a software engineer, and travel just for the sake of traveling

Cause then you could work from anywhere

[burnt raft]

Yeah I think that is a consultant, my dad does that and he kinda manages automation implementation projects for like insurance companies right now

[main thicket]

If you mean like factory automation and robotics and stuff, that stuff is mostly work for EEs and MEs. If you mean like RPA (automating office computer work type stuff), that's a possibility

The factory automation stuff does require travel but I assure you it's not fun. Travel for work sucks

And as I said, hard for CS people who don't know how any machines or engineering stuff works

[main thicket]

Learn a fuck tonne of maths starting yesterday

With a humanities background you're particularly behind, and CS majors are already behind for AI work

Go through calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, linear algebra and probability theory at the minimum

[delicate bane]

[sudden quartz]

Does Deep Learning use that stuff no it doesnt

[sudden quartz]

Just going into AI will be tough id focus on getting a python job first

[sudden quartz]

Basically: AI or Systems or App dev

[graceful shuttle]

AI and ML are the hot ones I think, same for Web Dev. So many people want those jobs, a lot of competition. It might be easier to target a more general position like 'developer' or 'analyst'

With the goal of building credibility and a specialization before making another, smaller career shift

[delicate bane]

Security is also one of those hot ones, too.

[quaint hedge]

Am I being scammed by these freelance websites? Everyone says they're charging $50 an hour but when I talk to them, they ask for $500 upfront before seeing any of my project files.

[sudden quartz]

Security is less hot just for the sake of mainly CS degrees only are going into security while math/phys/eng majors want the AI jobs too

Security also wants a MS in security

AI and SWE will take BS

DS wants MS

[hearty island]

All I’m doing rn is ds/algos to get an internship

[sudden quartz]

Systems, Networks, and IT take BS

[sudden quartz]

Its mainly those prestigious ones that do ds/algo interviews. I think "entry level" internships ask for projects at this point

[hearty island]

interesting well the startups I used to apply to gave me ds/algos questions

[sudden quartz]

Yeah startups do that because they think theyre top tier. Startups always garbage

90% of people applying can do the job anyway

[hearty island]

what is up with these startups thinking they're FAANG

I refuse to work for a startup if they can't tell me their burn rate and if they can't pay me for the internship

that eliminates like 90% of the startups

[hot fulcrum]

Okay Okay yall so I'm going for my A+ and I'm looking for the best way to study for it mainly what platform should I learn it on and should I do googles IT certification?

[maiden solar]

AI pretty much will take BS, MS and even PhD

[sudden quartz]

Every position does... but entry level takes bs

[maiden solar]

yep

my RnD dept on AI engineering took BS as an entry level

[graceful shuttle]

If you're just starting out, I strongly urge you to NOT work for a startup

[graceful shuttle]

Startups are a total gamble for your first job

[sudden quartz]

tell that to daspecito

[graceful shuttle]

Just did lol

Someone who's just stepping into the field should look to work somewhere established. You'll be much more likely to receive good mentorship in an established enterprise than in a startup

[hearty island]

not for a job for an internship

[graceful shuttle]

Not even for an internship

[hearty island]

I know

[graceful shuttle]

Not worth it

[hearty island]

that's why I stopped using angel list

it's a startup hell website

[graceful shuttle]

Startups are primarily focused with delivering a product as soon as possible, everything else (including employee development) is going to take a back seat

[hearty island]

I know

I did an unpaid internship at a startup

it was hell

[maiden solar]

most early-stage startups can't afford to pay salaries at all

you will get % in equity instead

it means that youre putting your salary at risk if they dont go well

[hearty island]

yes

that’s like every startup on angel list

[maiden solar]

tip: do not work for a startup where the founders are not transparent

[hearty island]

I know

that’s why I said if they can’t tell you their burn rate then you shouldn’t work for them

[burnt wren]

Question for anyone who would like to help someone (me) who wants to break into the industry:

How did you get your first “work experience” in the industry if it’s an accepted fact that the industry is mostly looking for people with work experience?

Where are you now?

[jolly furnace]

idk sometimes u just gotta start off somewhere that isnt exactly ur dream

[graceful shuttle]

Contribute to an open-source project once you get some practice under your belt. This site can help you find something to contribute to: https://www.codetriage.com

[burnt wren]

Thanks for the resource @graceful shuttle ! I've been contributing here and there. Most of the time when I encounter an issue in a project I'm using, I'll see if I can fix it. I've already had PRs merged in Pandas, PyTest, etc. But this sounds like I should be more intentional with contributing --- actually follow all the other issues other users are experiencing.

[graceful shuttle]

Sounds like you're on the right track. If you're not putting that on your resume, you definitely should (Pandas and PyTest are pretty well known after all)

If I was looking at potential candidates and saw they were taking that kind of initiative, I would look at it favorably

Especially if they were contributing to tools which we also use

[burnt wren]

That's encouraging to know, thanks for that feedback!

I'll keep at it.

[hearty island]

If you contributed to OSS can you list it as one of your projects?

[burnt wren]

I wouldn't.

Unless you're a member

[hearty island]

So then how do you put it on your resume

or are you not supposed to

[burnt wren]

How I put it in my resume is : Contributed to OSS such as Pytest (link to PR), Pandas (link to PR),...

One of the sections in my resume in the beginning is "Qualifications", and under there just one sentence about the OSS contributions

[graceful shuttle]

Just make it clear what part you played in the project. Don't say it's your project if you just had a PR merged

If you did the work and are proud of it, why wouldn't you put that on your resume?

[hearty island]

ok

[graceful shuttle]

Links are a good suggestion

[burnt wren]

When I had my resume reviewed, someone suggested to rephrase my sentence from "Have PRs successfully merged in OSS Python projects such as Pandas (link),..." into "Contributor to OSS Python projects including Pandas (link to PR),..." ___ is that OK? I guess I do have "Contributor" beside my name now when I post in issues. It just sounds weird to say that, I dunno.

It's not like I contribute every week 🙈

[graceful shuttle]

Are you checking in code?

Cause then you can say "Contributed code to blah blah, see at this link"

[burnt wren]

if you are asking whether my pull requests were merged to the projects, then yes.

[graceful shuttle]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about

You could even be specific about bugs and features like, "Wrote fixes for the following bugs in project names, see these links: links"

[hearty island]

Lol I don’t even know enough to do pull requests

Working on that knowledge first

[graceful shuttle]

Only way to get your code into OSS projects on GitHub is through pull requests

Unless you're the owner

[hearty island]

Yeah I know

[graceful shuttle]

But in general, you want to start sentences on your resume with strong verbs. Show how you took some action to achieve some effect

[hearty island]

I saw someone ranting on YouTube that during hacktober he had useless pull requests

Just to get free swag

[true harness]

sounds about right lol

[graceful shuttle]

Hacktober has had problems with that in the past

[true harness]

everyone got spam PRs

[burnt wren]

You'll get there! I used to be afraid looking at OSS projects's source code ("I wouldn't understand what's going on, anyway!") Now, I just try every time. I don't understand everything, sure. But maybe I understand a little little bit and work on it.

[hearty island]

I am slowly showing improvement

[graceful shuttle]

Keep in mind the OSS stuff isn't a guarantee, it's just one of several things you can do to stand out from the crowd

[burnt wren]

Right. Thanks @graceful shuttle and thanks for the time as well to give advice.

[graceful shuttle]

Another thing you can try, is look for meetups near you. Some cities have them. They're good for networking. (of course, this is kind of not possible in many locales at this point in time 😢 )

[hearty island]

Someone else also recommended that

like python events on Long Island

but it’s all online right now

[burnt wren]

There is no tech meetups near our place. This season has actually given me more opportunity to network given the many virtual events that's happening.

[hearty island]

If you wanna network you can join slack channels with recruiters

recruiters love slack

[burnt wren]

What's your experience on networking? You networking with someone or someone networking with you?

[graceful shuttle]

I'm not much of a networker myself. By that I mean I don't go out specifically to network

Just try to make genuine connections with others

Like when I used to go to meetups, it was just to talk about tech stuff with other tech people

[hearty island]

I can hold conversations up well

[burnt wren]

Ah. Ok, I get that.

[graceful shuttle]

It's kind of weird to go meet people and be thinking the whole time "this is for making my next career move"

[hearty island]

the thing about recruiters is they get so many messages every single day that your message may get lost in the pile

[burnt wren]

When I talk with people in the virtual events I went to, my mind is not "I'm networking" ... I just want to talk with people who also loves Python 😆

[hearty island]

also recruiters don’t like it when they can tell that you’re trying to mine them for connections

[burnt wren]

What have they been doing? Oohhh that's interesting and cool. I want to learn that.

[hearty island]

They’re people too

[graceful shuttle]

Usually the only time I get contacted specifically about networking, it's from a recruiter

[burnt wren]

I know. I feel yucky. That's why I get turned off with networking because it's always been in the context of looking for or needing something.

I understand though that networking means something else than that. I just don't see it in practice.

Or hear about it in a way that makes sense to me.

[hearty island]

Most of the time I try to talk to a recruiter they’re like yeah sorry we’re not hiring right now

[graceful shuttle]

It's better to be genuine, because if someone wants to work with you that's super valuable

[hearty island]

One time I spoke w some guy from numerator

and he was like yeah we can stay in touch

He blocked me the next day

lmao

[graceful shuttle]

Big oof

[hearty island]

Hofstra acts like they have this amazing alumni network

Well I can tell you that’s cap

[graceful shuttle]

Sounds like he was an anti-recruiter

A drive-away-er

[hearty island]

none of their alumni are at positions where if they told HR they have a recommendation HR would listen

[graceful shuttle]

lmao

[hearty island]

this isn’t like some tv show

where you have a buddy that works at a big tech company and they throw in your name and suddenly you have a job there

[graceful shuttle]

I've seen that only twice

And both times, it was because someone knew a very senior engineer

[hearty island]

alumni networks are bullshit other than T20s

Hofstra isn’t even ranked

so I guess that’s my fault

the best chance I had was some retired guy from IBM

but why would HR even listen to some retired alumni from IBM

he’s retired

[graceful shuttle]

I could imagine a respected employee who still has connections could get your name in there for a serious chance

But I'm not sure how often that's the case

[hearty island]

Isn’t being retired seen as out of touch

I don’t believe that

[graceful shuttle]

Like I said, I could imagine it being the case 😉

The only referrals I've seen work out personally are from current employees recommending someone

[hearty island]

Referrals don’t just drop out of thin air unfortunately

[vapid jay]

Ok, speaking of networking, any suggestions for how to do it?

Someone else gave advice to just cold email, attend clubs, etc.

[graceful shuttle]

Cold call? That can backfire on you I think

Attend clubs and meetups is better

[vapid jay]

cold email sorry, totally different imo

[graceful shuttle]

It's similar

[hearty island]

Cold email is also eh

[vapid jay]

even cold emails seem a bit annoying

but cold calling is like objectively just bothering people

[graceful shuttle]

Just be careful with those. It's a calculated risk because if you peeve off the wrong person it might have a ripple effect

[hearty island]

Recruiters talk

[vapid jay]

Ok cool, unfortunately my community college CS club is no longer operating, so I'll have to do that once corona ends or i transfer.

[graceful shuttle]

Ever considered starting one?

Like once corona ends

[hearty island]

I’m part of developer student clubs at my college

but it’s bullshit

I am the only one that talks in the entire server

[vapid jay]

Yeah I could probably start one with another person after it ends, if no one else comes back.

With zoom university it sorta sucks cuz u guys are infinitely more useful than anyone at a CS club for anything besides local networking

hence why no one operates one rn i think

[graceful shuttle]

Saying you started the CS club may look good on a resume if nothing else

[vapid jay]

Right now I tutor CS, am building portfolio projects, one hour of leetcode a day, so yeah, starting a club couldn't hurt

[graceful shuttle]

But it's definitely not easy right now with everything being mostly virtual

[hearty island]

They’re making us create an app in Flutter but my teammates haven’t said anything for 3 weeks

it’s not a fun time

[vapid jay]

@hearty island is flutter on ios still fubar

[hearty island]

What’s fubar

it was a nightmare to set it up on my Mac

[graceful shuttle]

FUDGED UP BEYOND ALL REASON

lol

[hearty island]

yes

it’s awful

Android studio sucks

I told them why can’t we make a web app and they ignored my opinion

[graceful shuttle]

Maybe cut losses and try your own thing project-wise?

If they're not participating might as well

[hearty island]

I am just doing ds/algos for now

[graceful shuttle]

Can't go wrong with that

[hearty island]

I’m doing my own thing anyways

if they cared they’d make an actual effort

[vapid jay]

Also, where should I put projects on my resume? Should I merge professional experience and experience, and list projects below my jobs? Should my education be on top?

Currently I have it mostly vertical and it goes like this:
Education
Jobs
Skills

[graceful shuttle]

It usually helps to highlight experience first

If you have it, otherwise education

[vapid jay]

Jobs are only programming related jobs btw

So put those programming related jobs on top?

[graceful shuttle]

Yeah, experience is real good to highlight

[jolly furnace]

i think some ppl will review ur resume if u post it

[vapid jay]

I was basically in reporting but automated stuff in python and did SQL queries

ok one sec

[jolly furnace]

or if ur comfortable in posting it

after censoring the personal info

[graceful shuttle]

Could also strip out the PII

personally identifiable info

[vapid jay]

yeah thats what im gonna do so itll take a sec

[graceful shuttle]

lol, you said it first

Beat me to it

Projects should usually be their own section if they're not part of work or education experience

You can also have a "Skills" section where you can dump keywords at the bottom to get past those resume parsers most companies have

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.docx). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[graceful shuttle]

Oh, looks like you mentioned you have that though earlier

[jolly furnace]

i think u might as well just take screenshot of it

[vapid jay]

formatting got messed up but yeah

i just copied this format online, any advice would be appreciated. I plan on adding projects over time, working on a few rn. I don't link my github because there are no significant projects on there (yet)

[jolly furnace]

my first impression is that try to fill the white space

[vapid jay]

I think 2-3 projects would do that yeah

I'm looking at beginning to apply around next January

[graceful shuttle]

Probably put the projects under the professional experience

[jolly furnace]

i think u want another header for that

[graceful shuttle]

Agreed

You've got more skills bullets than bullets for your experiences

[vapid jay]

Yeah lol

[graceful shuttle]

Try to demonstrate how you used those skills to accomplish things in your work

[vapid jay]

Projects above or below experience?

[graceful shuttle]

Below

Unless they're more impressive than your experiences

Basically, put the best stuff at the top

[jolly furnace]

usually the order is most relevant to less relevant

cuz ppl read top down

[graceful shuttle]

I suppose if you're still a student, then the most relevant thing is your education in that case

There's also repetition of the phrase "Strong skills in <thing>"

Try spicing that up

[vapid jay]

should i look at any certs, like AWS or something

or should i just deploy full stack projects using AWS instead

[jolly furnace]

i mean some ppl say those certs can help u get ur foot in the door

[graceful shuttle]

With certs, my philosophy is don't pay for them

Studying for them is free though

If your employer pays for them, that's an opportunity. And opportunities should be taken

Since you're looking like your still a student, probably the better option is to study for them like you were going to take them, and then apply that knowledge in some way

Cause AWS also has a free tier for people just starting out

[burnt wren]

I went to topresume.com (linked in PyCoders weekly) and it was so strange that with their parser: JSON was a top keyword when it was only mentioned once, but Python, mentioned in every section multiple times wasn't.

"OSS Python projects", "cli and web apps in Python" "built with Python"

[graceful shuttle]

@vapid jay also, if you have any numbers or metrics those are good to put

[burnt wren]

I don't get it. It was quite disheartening.

[vapid jay]

@graceful shuttle you mean like with my old job?

We didn't really have any metrics once I hit reporting, but in sales I was top of my district most months

I'm kinda saying I was reporting the entire time, but i was really promoted to that position

[graceful shuttle]

Some of those resume help sites use data they already have about employers. I'm not familiar with topresume.com though. Like it might be that employer puts greater weight on JSON for some reason (not sure why that would be though)

[graceful shuttle]

Sounds like an achievement you can highlight

And promotion is another achievement

It boils down to how you present it I guess. "Sales" specific skills may not be useful, but things like communication and problem solving could be aspects of that you can highlight

[vapid jay]

yeah, I was sort of expected to disperse knowledge on sales cuz we had a lot of underperforming guys, in my reporting role as a secondary function

like I also had to mentor and "fix" the lower performing people

[graceful shuttle]

Sounds like an example of leadership and responsibility

[vapid jay]

and I got my two coworkers at the store I was at to go from 0 sales a month to top in the district after I left

I just wasn't sure if stuff like that is relevant to software enough to put it on there

[graceful shuttle]

Soft skills are things you should highlight just as much as hard skills. It sounds like you work well with others and can work with your colleagues to achieve measurable success

Those skills are transferable

[vapid jay]

Yeah, and as I find professional or project ways to demonstrate skills, maybe I should remove them

[graceful shuttle]

Yep

[vapid jay]

like since that job demonstrates soft skills, I can remove the BS about my soft skills in professional skills

[graceful shuttle]

Exactly, because you're able to demonstrate that skill in a tangible way

[vapid jay]

So yeah once I have 2-3 projects this will be full

and I can prob replace "python skills" or "js skills" with just listing the stack I used for the project

thanks

[graceful shuttle]

The skills section can be used to get past the keyword filters for employers

😉

[vapid jay]

Yeah that's what the function was mostly before

Rn I'm doing a full stack project in flask, vanilla js, and postgreSQL so that'll add a few more

[graceful shuttle]

Definitely looks like you're on the right track. The experience section now shows progression and development, which is a good thing in my opinion

[graceful shuttle]

That's weird they would put JSON as a top keyword. It's just a data format. That's going to keep me up all night 🤔

[vapid jay]

lmk what you think of this site too, it's pretty barebones atm

I've been making it to show off some of the stuff I did at my reporting job that I still have access to, and any future projects

People have suggested adding a CS related blogging portion, but I'm not sure if anyone would read it.

[graceful shuttle]

Is it a single page site?

[burnt wren]

I'll post here what they said when I asked about it. They said it's in relation to my resume's formatting but I don't get it. Maybe other eyes here can see why that's the case.

[vapid jay]

yeah, it's static

I have done dynamic sites and full stack projects but I figured I don't really want a front end job anyways

and if I have full stack projects listed on that site, I don't think they'll care if it's static

[graceful shuttle]

I'm not the best judge of visual design. Full stack developer, but I've been spoiled with pre-made designs for the last few years

[graceful shuttle]

Interesting

[burnt wren]

If the results of the ATS (applicant tracking system) portion of your critique did not accurately portray your career, this is likely due to improper formatting, phrases, and keywords used on your resume.

The ATS software utilized for the critique is frequently used by employers and recruiters. Proper formatting and keyword improvements to your resume are proven to increase your interview opportunities.

From TopResume

[graceful shuttle]

Careful about using hyperlinks

I've heard those might vanish if the resume gets converted to plaint text at some point by the employer

[burnt wren]

Hmm. I should only put one link then on top. A link to my portfolio and GitHub.

[graceful shuttle]

It could be the hyperlinks were throwing off the ATS

[burnt wren]

Or maybe hyperlink non important keywords. E.g. don't link the OSS project name, but the specific contribution?

[graceful shuttle]

I think those check marks could also throw off the ATS

It might confuse the parser

Probably replace those with -

Cause those are like, unicode characters I think? If the resume parser is converting your document to ASCII that could be causing weird issues

[burnt wren]

A, okay, makes sense.

[graceful shuttle]

Also, some ATSs really care about the document format. Like some just don't work well with PDFs for example

[burnt wren]

Hmm, you would think if a company uses ATS that doesn't work well with PDFs then they wouldn't allow upload of PDFs.

[graceful shuttle]

I know right?

It's crazy out there these days, lol

[delicate bane]

they just use whatever lol

the uploaded copy is sent to whoever ends up interviewing you

if you get an interview

[graceful shuttle]

Assuming the ATS doesn't auto-reject

[delicate bane]

true

nowadays instead of saying "paper cut", youre lucky to make the "machine cut"

[graceful shuttle]

An alternative is to look for companies that accept resumes through email

[delicate bane]

ATS score of 65? sorry the AI algo doesnt like you

not enough buzzwords

[graceful shuttle]

Your education isn't an "BS in CS or other related degree, IDK, it's not that important". Auto-reject

This picture but in regex form https://images.app.goo.gl/Cp4c4zNQFqQdiBRcA

[burnt wren]

Thanks for the help @graceful shuttle --- I'm heading out. Good night (or morning wherever you are) 👋🏻

[sterile vault]

At least freelance SEEMS to be free from that bullshit.
Profile, links to portfolio, nice cover letter and you're set.
Probably not worth it for US devs, with their FAANG opportunities, compared to local, but for a lot of the world it is.
The worst I've seen is stuff like "write pineapple if you read this", because apparently some devs use automatic proposal spammers.

[maiden solar]

Becoming freelancer is really hard, I needed constantly 24/7 to look for some opportunities (different time zone), not always ended up in a deal

[fiery dome]

Dayum that's looking slick

[maiden solar]

but yeah you are free from company bullshit like C level politics but youre really need to be best at your domain of expertise

[sterile vault]

I think that depends on portfolio vs starting rate.

[sterile vault]

I've had only a couple of learning projects under my belt, so I started with easy, but cheap, which could be done in a couple of hours or even less.
In around a month I got enough long-term opportunities to have more work than I want to do, so I stopped applying for new jobs for a while, and next time I`ll search for work, I should be able to request higher hourly rate.
People with better portfolios (like a fully deployed web app) should be able to start with more competitive rate. 20-30$/hour at first, maybe? Take home pay vs a job depends on taxation, fees and conversion rates.
The only issue that if you screw up your fist few projects and get bad reviews, it can bury your career, so pushing bullshit wouldn't work, most likely.
"I never worked with tech X, but it seems similar to tech Y i've worked with and I'm willing to learn" works surprisingly frequently.
Basically, if you can do stuff from Automate the Boring stuff, you can get beer money, which is certainly better than unpaid internships or non-programming jobs like retail.
The worst thing is lack of mentorship. If you do things incorrectly, that's on you and you may never know it.
TLDR - if you can't get a junior position in a good company, freelance is a good backup.
I may be making competition to myself by promoting freelance, but this would be a drop in a sea, so whatever 🙂

I think I'm writing it here because my experiences with starting a programming career are very different from the "usual" one (CS degree/bootcamp, leetcode grind, junior position in a tech company), so I'm trying to relate to rare people who share the same experience.

[marsh wind]

@reef mantle why is this here and what is it?

[vapid jay]

@velvet kite sir how i learn python

[velvet kite]

@vapid jay This isn't the channel for that, but check out https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources/courses/

[vapid jay]

DS for Data Science or Data Structures?

[marsh wind]

Data structurea

[swift nymph]

if i wanted to find data about how anime viewership have increased in the pandemic any ideas where to find it?

[hearty island]

@gomorra-go#1363 <@&267629731250176001>

[still condor]

!tempban @reef mantle 3d This is not an advertisement platform. Reread our #rules, please.

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @reef mantle until 2021-03-16 15:01 (2 days and 23 hours).

[burnt wren]

Thanks for writing that, Oouja! Do you use any platform to freelance? Or did you manage to make your own brand?

[hearty island]

I remember when I joined this company NMM (Need More Meds) for an internship

and then they were like oh yeah can you create entire webscraping applications and do some machine learning? We’re not paying you btw

I left so quickly

they wanted me to talk to venture capitalists too 😐

[grizzled tundra]

Damn

They really tried to squeeze the most work out of you, huh?

You know, the company I'm working at right now, pays you shit and you know, whenever there is a Deployment phase approaching, they make you work as much as they do in a startup. Plus they monitor your goddamn time in campus.

[hearty island]

oh boy

and then during my winter break I worked a week for a nonprofit

and it was horrible

I quit really quickly

[hearty island]

https://onezero.medium.com/the-tech-elite-are-selling-job-referrals-to-facebook-google-and-amazon-77f7afdd465a

please no way this is an actual thing

paying people for referrals?????

[sudden quartz]

It might be the "Major in Software Tecnhology"?

I would change to concentration

[hearty island]

anyone have any tips for behavioral interviews?

https://youtu.be/JpHRARUqAvc

Idk I really disagree with this mindset

there has to be a good way to deal with test anxiety

time yourself when you're doing leetcode questions or something

don't spend the entire day on just one leetcode question

[lament barn]

behavior interviews are really pretty easy to ace, you just need to prep for them. IMO best thing to do is think of 5-10 specific "stories" you can tell (usually about work/school, but sometimes other parts of life might be OK). Then get a list of behavior interview questions. Now, using your 5-10 stories as examples, answer the questions.

[hearty island]

sounds good

I have some experience with them from applying to internships

the Textron interview was entirely behavioral

[lament barn]

they are almost all just variants on maybe 10 key themes. If you get really polished, you mgiht actually need to try and fake being caught off guard. dont look like you have a canned answer for everything.

once i got asked "tell me about a time you were stuck"

probably the most important thing is to just take a second and think "what are they really trying to find out by asking the question"

[hearty island]

a time I was stuck?

they're trying to see your problem solving skills

what do you do when you're stuck

[lament barn]

they want to know if you are going to be proactive about getting unstuck

[hearty island]

well

when I get stuck I come here

I am not afraid to ask for help

[lament barn]

fair enough. now just frame it about a specific time you did that and you're good

[hearty island]

yay

I just realized it was Clement's girlfriend that does the advertising for algoexpert.io

https://youtu.be/DIR_rxusO8Q

I thought this was interesting

so for a whiteboard interview you can use psuedocode

they're not that concerned with you actually knowing your syntax otherwise how else would you make it past the phone screen

[terse bane]

hey , i found a job posting ,that says to make a spell and grammar checker which shall also have text to speech feature , it pays around $250 average ..... a good deal or uderpaid ?

[sterile vault]

@burnt wren I had a couple of "help with homework" jobs, but I don't have neither skills nor networking to pull off my own brand for now. So I'm using Upwork.
I've used local ones, but they are really bad, and the only people who use them are greedy clients who don't want to pay international rates and desperate freelancers who either do not want or are not able to break into international market.

@swift nymph 4chan anime board posting. Other than that - check if crunchyroll/Netflix have stats.

[vapid jay]

what is that wtf?

[near ocean]

Dont think thats appropriate for this channel my guy

Or any channel here

[hearty island]

yeah

[sterile vault]

@terse bane Good deal if you've done it before. If not, you probably sink in it 2-3x more manhours than you expect.

[hearty island]

This sums it up pretty well

You tell me how writing about silence is gonna help me

[wheat skiff]

tf wha?

lmao

[hearty island]

yes

my writing class’s topic is about silence

[wheat skiff]

random question dudes that have jobs now, is it worth going into a tech career or would yu become a doctor

[wheat skiff]

breh lmao

[hearty island]

if you can go through med school and you enjoy it then you can become a doctor

[wheat skiff]

hmm

fax i guess

[hearty island]

I was trash at ap bio and it ruined my hopes of becoming a doctor

[wheat skiff]

dammm

should have switched to honors or regular instead

[hearty island]

I got an A-

[wheat skiff]

bruh

oh wait

[hearty island]

the teacher just wrecked my confidence

[wheat skiff]

i forgot that that isnt hihg

wait isnt A- high ish?

[hearty island]

Yes

idk I didn’t enjoy just memorizing

didn’t find it fun

[wheat skiff]

okkkk

so you doing python now

or whatever career is related to it

im a noob lmao

[hearty island]

yeah I’m doing ds/algos

it’s fun

[worthy violet]

Hey everyone! Data Analyst here who works with SQL/Tableau but wanting to learn more about Python to branch out. Any other folks using Data Science/Data Viz in their role?

[sterile crescent]

I learned html and web site design when I was 12 years old, then 1 year later I learnt python and started to research on cyber security and used kali for 2 or 3 months then I got interested in mobile development and learned dart for flutter. I now have knowledge of python at intermediate level. I always worked on unrelated things and I'm not sure what to work on right now. What do you think i should do? (I'm 16 right now)

[mortal wedge]

You have a pretty diverse skillset

Are you looking for something new to do or something to do with your existing skillset

[mortal wedge]

Yes, I work a bit with data science/visualization

[worthy violet]

Do you enjoy it? My role is still very beginner in nature, but I am loving it! I'm wondering how people who work heavily in the role feel.

[mortal wedge]

It's not my primary role, but I often have to work with it to showcase my work for other people. So I may not be the best suited to answer, but it's enjoyable enough. THere's quite a lot of data visualization libraries/tools, like pandas and seaborn

[worthy violet]

That's awesome to hear!

[mortal wedge]

Juptyer Notebooks is what I see most used in the industry by data science folks, especially for sharing results and such

[hearty island]

some people also like google colab

[marsh wind]

colab is mostly for free gpu/tpu

[little trellis]

Colab is basically Jupyter

Good for beginners to hop right in though

I’d get acquainted with Jupyter Lab

[sterile vault]

Jupiter is cool, but damn, it's painful to do version control, local imports are hard, and you never can be 100% sure it doesn't do anything unexpected.

[hearty island]

I like jupyter notebooks for the data viz

[burnt wren]

Or maybe I should remove it altogether. Not really relevant here in North America.

[peak halo]

Previously, this section of my resume was just an unitemized list. Obviously it breaks down to languages, git and github, and then libraries. I can't really think of a better way to structure it, but as it stands I can allocate three lines to this section without having to find a new approach to fitting everything in the page.

[hearty island]

I have a question

if you have an employment gap on your resume what do you do

[peak halo]

aren't you an undergrad?

[hearty island]

yes but isn't it handy to know how to handle it anyways

[peak halo]

Someone else might have a better answer, but some applications I've filled out have an open answer section to explain employment gaps, if any. I don't know what you do otherwise.

[hearty island]

how do you explain an employment gap other than the company you were working at "restructured" and you couldn't get a job because of the job market and competition

like you're in a pretty tight spot

[forest seal]

everyone here seems rather experienced, I have a question about python capabilities

if I had historical data on a price or level of a number

could I build an algo that could give me a rough estimate of the direction the price would go

[hearty island]

wrong channel for this kind of stuff

this is more suited for #algos-and-data-structs

[forest seal]

ok

[peak halo]

or even #data-science-and-ml

[peak halo]

algos and data structs is more for classical algorithms and general computer science theory. this person is trying to create a predictive model.

[hearty island]

understood my bad

[peak halo]

no problem

[hearty island]

how's the job search going?

[peak halo]

no interviews yet

what do you think of this?

[timber tide]

I like the separation.

[hearty island]

I like it

it looks organized

[timber tide]

Are you writing your resume in LaTeX?

[hearty island]

Is there a site that specifically gives coding resumes?

[peak halo]

yes, I set up a whole environment for latex in pycharm

and the resume is v e r s i o n c o n t r o l l e d

this is the third branch so far.

[timber tide]

Ah, I just use TeXstudio, or if I'm lazy just overleaf.

But yeah having a version controlled resume is certainly nice.

[peak halo]

I was using overleaf until I didn't want to learn what their VCS is

it might even be git. I just completely skipped trying to figure it out.

[hearty island]

is there a website that can give me examples of SWE/DS resumes that worked for people?

eh I can just google

[timber tide]

It's hard to beat the details-strengths-education-experience layout

[still condor]

what's the point of the 'strengths' field? and what use is it without 'weaknesses'?

[near ocean]

Overleaf needs a premium account to hook up to github

[ocean ledge]

so i didn't get my 40% raise that i asked for

should i brush up my resume and start looking

[timber tide]

err, strengths being the programming languages and tools you know.

[still condor]

ah

i c

[timber tide]

I'm not sure how to better label that.

Skills & Technologies maybe.

[hearty island]

is this a joke

didn't you get a raise like last week or something

[ocean ledge]

no that was my bonus, not a raise

[hearty island]

oh

[hearty island]

what was the reason they gave for not giving you your raise

[ocean ledge]

economics

[hearty island]

oh

then find another company that pays way more

[vapid jay]

@hearty island sir how i learn python

[hearty island]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[hearty island]

I'd start with automate the boring stuff

[vapid jay]

@hearty island u indian

[hearty island]

yes

[sour tartan]

@jovial cargo i don't think it's true that startups require a degree

[hearty island]

he's right

[jovial cargo]

I was thinking the same but not sure anymore

[sour tartan]

@zinc rover have you worked at startups?

@strange pumice are you looking for work at a startup?

[jovial cargo]

Thanks for mentioning us in this channel ,kk

[zinc rover]

I'm not 18 yet.

hahhaha sorry

[jovial cargo]

bruh 😦

[zinc rover]

yea don't take me too seriously

I just know about stuff

[sour tartan]

@near ocean have you had interviews at many places?

[near ocean]

Nope

[sour tartan]

i ask these questions because everyone seems so certain in #python-discussion

[pulsar bay]

in my limited exp, it's a tossup. some only care about what you can do, but others want the best of the best so they can limit their apps to degree students

[strange pumice]

not yet

but as an intern yeah

[zinc rover]

i heard alot of stories, experiences and tips from software engineers, so i know some stuff

[jovial cargo]

But see here's the thing, every single CS major course can be learned online for free

[near ocean]

I have a BSc and an MSc, anyone saying companies dont ask for degrees is just straight up dreaming

[abstract night]

Isn’t the career search already hard for people with a CS BS? Seems like it would be a nightmare without a degree.

[strange pumice]

Can you learn computer operating system online for free?

[pulsar bay]

but you could say the same about most topics. sure, it's easier with CS, but that doesn't mean a lot of people do it well

[zinc rover]

As i mentioned before, no matter how good and better you are... Without that sheet of paper / certification / degree...

[jovial cargo]

I mean you can get a course and do it and not be in 100s of thousands of dollars in debt

[strange pumice]

depends on the uni you go to

[abstract night]

I have heard of companies hiring from boot camps, could be an option.

[zinc rover]

Just dont get student loans lulz

[strange pumice]

theres a free online university called University of the people they offer 3 program one of them computer science

you could take a local college, no need to go to these high colleges, unless you get scholorship, although its not bad to aim for the best

[jovial cargo]

I'm currently planning on switching to a company that has developed the whole learning platform for OpenEdX and so far they don't even care as long as I know the CS Fundamentals and clear their technical interview

[hearty island]

what's the timeframe

to learn all the material

[zinc rover]

that's good

[strange pumice]

nice

[sour tartan]

what kind of company do you mean?

[jovial cargo]

It's called Arbisoft

I'll share the link here

[sour tartan]

yes, in Lahore

[abstract night]

+1, community colleges are way cheaper sometimes

[jovial cargo]

oh you know????

dang man

[sour tartan]

I work at edX 🙂

[strange pumice]

👀

[zinc rover]

OOOOOOH

[jovial cargo]

WOW

[strange pumice]

interesting by the day

[jovial cargo]

Arbisoft is fucking great tbh

They train you so fucking hard it's amazing

[strange pumice]

tell me more

[jovial cargo]

The people that left arbisoft are currently working in very good companies. To name a couple: Amazon, Google

[zinc rover]

Damn

[jovial cargo]

Ok so arbisfot has this program in which they train fresh graduates (after they have cleared their tests) for 3 months straight. First month is Scrapy, second is JS and the third is Django

They won't even let you touch their production codebase before the training lol

[zinc rover]

scrapy

[jovial cargo]

Pretty neat if you ask me

[jovial cargo]

yeah

They also provide web crawling/scraping services as well

[strange pumice]

wow

[zinc rover]

looks like these are basic level languages good for starters

[jovial cargo]

And then you get to work on amazing projects just like open Edx

They even conduct pycons over at my country

[zinc rover]

i need to learn more about algorithms and datastructure

more practice

[jovial cargo]

Oh yeah you should. Highly recommended!

[zinc rover]

I'm just learning everything i can

[strange pumice]

Nice still have a bit of a time before i learn algos

[zinc rover]

I'll probably subscribe at algoexport.io

expert

[strange pumice]

is algoexpert really the best as it is on the ad

[jovial cargo]

You need to have a proper plan tbh

[zinc rover]

i am not sure

[jovial cargo]

I have been coding for 3 years now

I started with basic python

[zinc rover]

I started a few months ago, by a few i meant 6 months

[jovial cargo]

for a good 4-5 months

[strange pumice]

nice

3 years is decent

[zinc rover]

https://kobi.lol

[jovial cargo]

and then headed over to Data Structs and Algos

[zinc rover]

I made this sexy website

[jovial cargo]

after that I got hooked on to Automation

[strange pumice]

your one year younger than me

[jovial cargo]

I think I was fortunate enough to have a brother who has worked with fortune 500 companies to guide me as well

[strange pumice]

actually were the same age ill be turning 17 in few months

[zinc rover]

• learn everything i can
• get a job with whatveer i have learnt

[strange pumice]

how many programming languages do you know?

[jovial cargo]

I know python and js

lmfao

I'm a scrub

[strange pumice]

no no no thats cool

[zinc rover]

nono, amount < quality

[abstract night]

Looks super nice! If you are using it professionally you might want to change it so that "convert dreams to reality" doesn't affect the spacing of the image on the right.

[strange pumice]

python and js, and get to work apply for interviews?

thats amazing

[zinc rover]

Alrifht

[jovial cargo]

I'm proficient in Python but can code in JS too

[zinc rover]

where did you learn how to datastrcture & algorithms? Via college before dropout?

[strange pumice]

means you dont need to learn 4-5 languages to get a job

[jovial cargo]

I mean if you know the basics you can code in any language (as long as you learn their paradigms)

[jovial cargo]

No, but you need to be flexible to change as well

[zinc rover]

Yop, that's why learning languages is super easy

[strange pumice]

if i had my way ill just do python, js, go.

[abstract night]

Also you have a message saying "rennovate tech."

It's the only one with a period, you might want to get rid of that so that all of the messages match.

[strange pumice]

ah your right

[jovial cargo]

and in order to be flexible, you need to be familiar with at least a couple of languages

[strange pumice]

learning languages isnt an easy job though

[zinc rover]

Do they teach you psuedocode

[jovial cargo]

who?

[strange pumice]

theres more to it, than basics syntax

[zinc rover]

College, or wherever you learnt datastrcture / algorithms

[jovial cargo]

Yeah I agree, if you just look at javascript. MF is a paradigm in itself lmfao

[jovial cargo]

didn't go to a college

self taught baby lmfao

[zinc rover]

where ddi u learn datastrcture / algorhtms, maybe share some resources uwu

[jovial cargo]

jk I suck

[abstract night]

My degree program never formally taught me pseudocode, but good commenting is almost pseudocode

and they taught us how to comment code

[zinc rover]

wow

well good commenting is everything

[strange pumice]

theres udemy

[jovial cargo]

https://www.udemy.com/course/learning-data-structures-algorithms-in-python-from-scratch/?utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=udemyads&utm_campaign=LongTail_la.EN_cc.ROW&utm_content=deal4584&utm_term=_._ag_77879424134_._ad_437497333833_._kw__._de_c_._dm__._pl__._ti_dsa-1007766171312_._li_9076944_._pd__._&matchtype=b&gclid=CjwKCAiA4rGCBhAQEiwAelVti7iL31CM7FdYf8IDuAKv8rYaIiKIH-f7qJM9E7L2YGyHy0e8y-sTXxoClSAQAvD_BwE

[strange pumice]

coursera, teaches you college stugg as well\

you can get it for free in coursera

[zinc rover]

oof no money

[zinc rover]

okok

[strange pumice]

apply for scholarship in coursera, or look for free algo course

[zinc rover]

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/data-structures/

Reading this currently

[jovial cargo]

I'm currently going through a book called principles of data structures in C and C++

[strange pumice]

your gonna get distracted with ads lol

[strange pumice]

Python Js c/c++ i think your good to go in tech industry

[zinc rover]

Kets hope not lol

[strange pumice]

Google main language are those

[jovial cargo]

I don't know C++ lmfao

But I can read it tho lol

[strange pumice]

if you learn it, then your profficient

[abstract night]

Just pull graduation requirements from any given university, then search for a syllabus for each class (there are lots publicly available for some reason). Then obtain the pdf of the textbook listed in the syllabus using unknown methods and follow along with their lesson plan.

[zinc rover]

Learn c++ and you'll know the rest java & c#

[jovial cargo]

THIS

[strange pumice]

what kobi said

[timber tide]

This isn't exactly true.

[zinc rover]

I've been told

[strange pumice]

java and c# more oop

[jovial cargo]

Not true

[zinc rover]

and c# is ppreeeety similar to java

[strange pumice]

its java but diffeent syntax

and doesnt use jvm

[abstract night]

transitioning from C# to java literally took me an hour

xD

[strange pumice]

lol

its like Js to typesctipt

[zinc rover]

Litterally the same syntax, with a few word changes

same classes, variables, etc

[strange pumice]

words like imports to using, few others

unity should support java

[abstract night]

Java has lots of weird issues that C# doesn't have

overall I prefer C#

[strange pumice]

Havent tried c# yet, so i would understand what your saying

[timber tide]

C# and Java despite being related have a pretty fundamental difference in terms of primitives vs object types.

[strange pumice]

mhm

[jovial cargo]

Man, this has been a fun conversation

[strange pumice]

yeah

good luck at the technical interview @jovial cargo

[zinc rover]

Well it was fun talking with yoy guys

[jovial cargo]

There's still time lmfao. Still thanks. I was in touch with one of their devs and planning on applying after 4-5 months or so since I can't leave my client out hanging. Not until the MVP

[jovial cargo]

Likewise

[maiden solar]

C++ and Java have difference approach of OOP paradigm, Java is all about class, learn C++ first then you'll know the rest java & c#? yes but
not really bcs you need adaptation, and thats not ideal in fast production world in industry

if your projects need java, then go straight learn java and its oop, if not why bother learn c++ just to "know" how those codes are working behind curtain

[proven falcon]

So I hired 2 new guys yesterday to code a few Samsung Hypervacs

We're switching the code from C to a python based system

kids these days can't do C

we gotta make it more accessible guys

[vapid jay]

Can anybody here guide.. from where i get the students so that i can teach them python

[sacred goblet]

i just read a subreddit basically saying that data science is basically a bubble and that theres an oversaturation of people in the field and also saying that most of these "data science" jobs are really disguised as data analysts or data engineering roles. There were also many people who supposedly are already in the field agreeing with these statements saying theres few jobs that actually do real data science

My question is, is this the truth? or whats really the reality of the data science field

[delicate bane]

i recommend this podcast since its by 2 senior data scientists https://open.spotify.com/show/78Nft51TuU3X2urEKfCuys?si=LRvNg3J7QnCYj4hmLHvvbg

first episode talks about analysis-type data scientists vs. decision scientists vs. more ML engineering-type data scientists

which are the main three types according to them

also "real data science"

no comment

[marsh wind]

https://medium.com/swlh/why-you-should-never-consent-to-a-coding-test-in-an-interview-8e22f5078c7f

@hearty island @shadow moss @ocean ledge I think we had a discussion on this about a week ago

[terse bane]

how do i know if i am ready to apply for a job ?

[dull mantle]

When you gain the power of coding, my son 🙂

[terse bane]

hmm, let me see... i can.. write code in python, i know .NET , MySql guess it enough ?

[dull mantle]

I don't know i'm just trainee...

[cerulean basalt]

hello guys i'm looking out for a job after lurking into mainframe tech for 3 years , i need a favour of getting connections in linked in

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @vapid jay until 2021-03-14 11:03 (9 minutes and 59 seconds) (reason: burst rule: sent 8 messages in 10s).

[true scaffold]

It depends on what you can do on it. I would suggest asking yourself if you're able to do a project that a company might be interested in. You I'll share a video with you that will help you with the job hunt, but you need to be certain on what you can do so you can defend it and explain it at the correct interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Air1c697tjw
Be warned. It's a long video so take your time

[vague echo]

Hi guys, I'd like to work in the US and I'm from Europe. do you think it's easier to find an international company and ask for a transfer (I don't know if it's easy) ? Or directly apply for a job in the US ?

[gleaming cedar]

@delicate bane is data science good for mechanical engineers?

[marsh wind]

good in what way?

[hearty island]

@marsh wind then what are you even supposed to do?

you say no to them then they’re gonna be like ok get out

these ds/algos questions have become integrated into the interview process

[marsh wind]

if you read it carefully the author did say that you kinda cannot avoid it when you search for first/second job @hearty island

he suggests that for when you climb out of junior position

[little trellis]

A good interview really doesn't look much different than interviews for other types of positions. You have some chit chat, talk about projects that you've worked on that are relevant, and discuss the organization.

It really doesn't have to be complicated

As an interviewer, just ask about problems your company is currently actually solving and see how the candidate would approach them. If they can do that, then they can obviously do the job.

[hearty island]

ask what technologies they're using for their database

If they say they're using Excel ask why they're not using SQL

[vapid jay]

if i try to install PIP i have this

[little trellis]

lol @hearty island the only people I've ever seen use Excel as a DB are in marketing or finance

[little trellis]

Probably not the channel to ask this in. I would use one of the help channels. But it looks like you don't have python installed.

[marsh wind]

yep, that's exactly what we did

[hearty island]

You'd be surprised Canon still uses Excel for a database

[little trellis]

It is appropriate in some contexts @hearty island

[hearty island]

eh

depends on how much data the company is handling

I remember the whole UK COVID Excel thing

[little trellis]

If it has to have performance, handle more than a few hundred rows, be used in more than one place, be accessed by more than one application, or be secure at all then it's a no. If it's something quick and dirty for the marketing team to update tracking codes or whatever then it's fine.

[ocean ledge]

i also remember aws going down on the east coast for 6 hours and half the economy stalling

using fancy tools doesn't always mean best

[little trellis]

Anything medical related should not be in Excel

[near ocean]

Good god the uk covid excel tragedy was doubly stupid

[vapid jay]

can someone help me with a python script

im new to this stuff

[hearty island]

wrong channel try #python-discussion

[marsh wind]

Better yet #❓｜how-to-get-help @vapid jay

[shadow moss]

Yep, it’s hard to do that starting out. Also, my company coding tests are at least not algo crap. It’s fizzbuzz and API reading.

[marsh wind]

Yeah mine was close to fizzbuzz on white board

[hearty island]

at least I'm very determined to succeeed

is that how you spell succeed

I hope so

[near ocean]

What company? And are there open positions? Asking for a friend

[hearty island]

does this company hire interns... theoretical question

does working for startups just mean you get underpaid

is that like a constant

I see it everywhere

[shadow moss]

Yes but fewer last year. Our division had none. Don’t know about this year.

[hearty island]

does a "fast-growing" startup just mean like 60 hour weeks

is it a bad question to ask how many hours per week you'd be working

[marsh wind]

I think it's not a bad question per se. but you might not get an honest answer 🙂

[hearty island]

I'm guessing the response would be it depends

[marsh wind]

for startups, depends. There are some well funded startups that want to get top talents

and they are ready to pay same as big corps

[little trellis]

When you have interviews with the colleagues you would actually be working with just ask them about work life balance. You can generally get a read even if they exaggerate in either direction @hearty island

[hearty island]

interesting

ok

https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/10/please-dont-learn-to-code/

I thought this was an interesting read

[marsh wind]

those that are just starting out, yeah, likely your pay will be average

[hearty island]

it's ok I'll stay with the job for a year

and then I'll be applying to other jobs

[zinc rover]

bruh this javascript code looks very bad

[peak halo]

Quck resume question: should I have B.S. or B.Sc. for my degree? I don't really want to see "BS" on the page but people might think BSc calls attention to itself.

[hearty island]

you went to school in the UK?

I thought bsc was UK my bad

[delicate bane]

what does that question even mean.

[hearty island]

it means is data science good for mechanical engineers 😠

[delicate bane]

data science is good for anybody that likes working with data

[hearty island]

yeah that's what I would say

[zinc rover]

Can someone tell me the summary of what this is about

[hearty island]

don't just jump into coding just for the money

bc it's becoming a congested field

and people are trying to make ends meet and what not

[zinc rover]

i dont underatand the 2 last messages

I suck at english

pls explain noob mode @hearty island :3

[fossil ruin]

lots of people code to make money to live

[zinc rover]

The 2 lines under that

[hearty island]

people are trying to survive

[jolly moat]

I'm 30, working experience in biz dev and customer service. Hate my current job and feeling desperate to get out. I think I'm interested in Python and Solidity (smart contracts) as well as trading algorithms, but I don't want to take the bait and bite on a bootcamp or online course (selection overwhelm), esp if the field is congested or it's going to be another ultimately unsatisfying career. !resources seems like a good place to start, but any other career switchers in here feeling paralysis by analysis?

[hearty island]

whatever you do

do not buy a bootcamp

the quality of bootcamps have drastically decreased

people have realized that it is more profitable to sell shovels to mine gold than actually mine gold themselves

[sterile vault]

I'm still feeling that options are overwhelming. Still, the best way is to do something. No matter what, it will be better than doing nothing.
Be it going through books, doing exercises (try Advent of Code, it's fun), picking up tutorial for certain technology (for example, Kaggle has nice intro to Pandas) or even building a small pet project.
I have no experience with bootcamps, but I feel that internet has enough material to learn for free.

[hearty island]

if you're gonna learn Python automate the boring stuff is the best place to start

and you might want to learn DS/algos before you just start creating trading algorithms

[jolly moat]

The Automate boring stuff looks enticing.
My employer offers ~$5K in tuition reimbursement. If you had $5K to spend on education where would you spend it? I don't want to neglect this blessing

[hearty island]

I'm not so sure

bc I think you can self-learn coding

5k or not

[jolly moat]

I believe that, and I understand majority of bootcamps are scams (almost fell for a FinTech one that partnered with my alma mater), but in other cases you can actually get what you pay for.

I looked at MicroMasters on EdX but didn't really see the path I hoped to find. Other than that, all I find online are individual courses in the $10 - $100 range, nothing accredited

[hearty island]

unpopular opinion: certificates don't mean much if you didn't really absorb the knowledge

the only thing I would be willing to use the 5k for would be a DS/algos class

but that is also something you can learn for completely free

[jolly moat]

Yeah certs are too weak compared to degrees, and I can only get reimbursed for accredited courses anyway

[zinc rover]

i honestly learned everything just by reading official documentations and youtube videos

$0 invested

[hearty island]

same here

[zinc rover]

Just think about it. Who teaches the one who teaches? Someone had to be self taught.

[hearty island]

also I think it's alarming how none of the bootcamps even have any guarantees

[zinc rover]

some has guarenteed jobs

but like bruh

[hearty island]

there's also some bootcamps with loans? you have to pay a loan after you make a certain amount of money?

[jolly moat]

I think you pay for the "career services" aka utilize the programs network and build a better resume, promised by the bootcamps but not really seen elsewhere from anything I've seen

[zinc rover]

But

[hearty island]

career services are just as useless

[zinc rover]

Investing in "education" is helpful

For that piece of paper

the degree

but information / skills can be honed with free online resouces

This is my opinion anyways

[hearty island]

maybe for colleges

not for bootcamps

[jolly moat]

Hmm, seems like accredited programs should offer more fast tracked education with the same ethos as a bootcamp but hand out an actual degree (specified like a tech cert or like Tesla's START program). Guess my $5K is just wishful thinking

[hearty island]

you're gonna be self learning either way

bootcamps go crazy fast

if you don't self-teach you'll fall behind really quickly

[jolly moat]

Self-teaching while career searching and working a full-time job seems impossible. Each of those could be considered full-time

[hearty island]

try talking to your manager and being like hey, are there any opportunities to talk to HR about a coding role?

[timber tide]

Do you have a degree in anything already? I know a few people who switched to CS after they got a degree completely unrelated and had success finding jobs.

[jolly moat]

I have a B.S. in economics and a minor in sport management

[jolly moat]

Tbh, my goal is to leave my current company, but I want to utilize the tuition reimbursement while I'm there

[sterile vault]

Can you get some sort of personal tutor? To say, work with you for hour or two on weekends to review your progress. Even at senior dev rates it should be affordable.
Very popular for say, foreign languages, but I don't know if there are such services from actually good programmers (and not failed grads).

[gaunt sparrow]

CS50

Harvard offers free coursework online

Then they have a bunch of follow up courses that you take afterwards

CS50 is the generalized CS class

And you can follow it up with a web development class or an AI class, etc

[terse bane]

i remember , i was absolutely "scared" when , they i got the chance to talk 1 to 1 with david

man , i love cs50

[gaunt sparrow]

Yeah it's a really great intro to CS

[delicate bane]

maybe look for something that can help you build a portfolio, especially if youre interested in tech

[hearty island]

Personal tutors????

[sterile crescent]

I could not decide which way to go I am not sure about that I wonder if there is a way to gather what I know

[jolly moat]

CS50, then or concurrently Automate the Boring Stuff (depending on time demands) seem like great learning resources, but I don't think those will help me build a portfolio. Also, tuition reimbursement only covers accredited courses I believe, so tutors would be out (idk of any dev tutors anyway)

[jovial cargo]

If you really want to utilise the tuition reimbursement then I would highly suggest you get a course on udemy for the programming language of your choice. Give that language a solid 3-4 months and once you're comfortable with the language (including OOP), go for Algos and DataStructs. After that you can look at design patterns and what not and start doing projects and push them on your git profile. One more thing I would highly suggest is write blogs on small projects that you do. This will also be added to your portfolio.

[gaunt sparrow]

Just going to be frank, you're competing in an industry that is tough to break into for people who have done it out of passion from early adolescence. There are no quick and easy solutions to competence and it pays well for a reason

If you want a pure dev position you just got to put in the work, but if you want a "shortcut" you should ask yourself about the skillset you have and how you could augment that skillset with some basic programming skills to be more attractive to a company

Seems like you're trying to transition away from your current job relatively soon and I think the winning strat there would be to apply to positions that aren't necessarily pure programming gigs but to make sure to showcase some talent in that area. I don't know anything about your current industry but I'm sure you have buisness insights from experience in it that somebody who may be a better developer than you would lack

Starting with "I want to learn how to program" usually puts you down a long and winding path with an infinite amount of complexity rabbit holes to jump down, but starting with "I want to do X, I think programming can help me" will usually produce results fast.

If you want to learn about trading algos and the like you should just focus on resources specific to that and learn only what you need to to accomplish that goal. My CS50 recommendation is for a good foundational knowledge for somebody who is interested in programming for the sake of programming, only you can answer whether that is you or not, both paths are valid and needed.

[hearty island]

Automate the boring stuff will teach you the fundamentals

[gaunt sparrow]

I disagree

He glosses over a lot

[hearty island]

you can use these fundamentals to make projects

[gaunt sparrow]

But he describes what the book is very well at the outset

[hearty island]

Well it’s not a book that goes into extensive detail about everything

[gaunt sparrow]

CS50 will teach you fundamentals in the sense that when you're done you're not married to a language or technology

[hearty island]

Automate the boring stuff doesn’t “marry” you to python either

it just shows you how to do things in python

If courses are more his thing tho then he should do CS 50

I don’t see where he could go wrong with that course

[gaunt sparrow]

I would think somebody would have a hard time explaining in what ways an imperative v object oriented v functional paradigm differ and why you might choose to use a language that utilizes one over the other

What an interpreter v a compiler is, what the difference between an abstract data type or a primitive data type is, what the difference between the stack and heap is, etc

Thinking in those terms makes hopping between technologies very easy

When you're not thinking of everything in terms of "oh it's like that python thing"

[neon moat]

what you're talking about comes with years of practice

there are no shortcuts for any skill

[gaunt sparrow]

Right, it's overkill depending on what you want to do

If you want to, automate the boring stuff in your life for example, unsurprisingly automate the boring stuff is a great resource

It sacrifices a lot of useful language agnostic abstractions in favor of fast and immediate productivity

[hearty island]

Automate the boring stuff is like grokking algorithms

[gaunt sparrow]

I love the book personally, it does what it does very well

[hearty island]

it’s a base understanding of what you have to do

[neon moat]

is grokking algorithms a good book?

[hearty island]

I’d say yes

if you already knew algorithms and DS and would like to refresh you knowledge

I’d say it’s a good book

it skimps on implementations

which is what I don’t like

oH bUt iF yOu kNoW tHe CoNcEpT iT’s NoT hArD tO iMpLeMeNt

[true harness]

it is true though

[ocean ledge]

100%

[hearty island]

what if someone asks you to implement a dictionary without seeing any code on how to make a dictionary

The first time you ever make one

no psuedocode nothing

[spark holly]

It sounds bad but I love coding in python only and it sounds kinda bad when I see the requirements for Jobs/ internships as they wants us to know everything. I have worked with web frameworks, pyqt, openCV and bunch of other stuff. Now, it feels like I have nothing to do which I would love doing it. (I don't like ML and AI 😅 )

I have worked on App development also. It was also pretty much fun though. But how many different things I must do to consider worthy for it. 😢

[delicate bane]

do you like front end or backend or both?

[spark holly]

I like both. I am not that good in frontend but I like it also.

[delicate bane]

bc i know the skillset of python + django/flask is heavily sought after

plus if you know some html/css/javascript

youre golden

[spark holly]

But Web Development is slowly becoming less popular day by day.

[hearty island]

really??

[near ocean]

Thats not true

[hearty island]

web dev is popping off

[digital fjord]

more people than ever need websites

[spark holly]

I know html and css a bit. But javascript is completely unknown to me.

[hearty island]

companies are paying pretty pennies for nice websites

javascript is great for websites

they know those drag and drop websites are meh

[spark holly]

but CMS like wordpress are actually making it a lot easier.

[digital fjord]

eh, you still need tech people for these

wordpress is only easy until it isn't

[hearty island]

what is wordpress

is it drag and drop

oh boy

[digital fjord]

like yes, a significant portion of the internet is made with these tools, but in the end, if you are a modern company, you need an API, you need a fast website, ...

[spark holly]

That's true. 😂 I worked with it once. My site became so much resource consuming. Later, I simply stopped using it

[delicate bane]

you can learn javascript easily if you know python well. also web dev is becoming MORE popular

[hearty island]

Web dev declining sounds like the people who say AI will eventually automate all jobs

we are a long way from that happening

[near ocean]

With the pandemic if you dont have a site you starve

[delicate bane]

tbh i should pick up some basic web dev skills

[digital fjord]

wordpress is however the reason why PHP is the best language for freelancing. So many people use wordpress since it is just kind of the easiest option

[delicate bane]

low hanging fruit

[near ocean]

create-react-app go brrr

[spark holly]

APIs are the best things for quering data according to me..

[spark holly]

That's great. 😄

[delicate bane]

ah yes, being able to create and call APIs is important

[hearty island]

l want to learn react some time

[digital fjord]

react is nice

[delicate bane]

lets learn some web dev some time

[hearty island]

@delicate bane that sounds great

[delicate bane]

maybe this summer

tho

bc im too busy

[spark holly]

Once I made Flask Rest Api. That worked pretty well for me.

[hearty island]

am too busy shoving ds/algos down my throat

ds/algo hell is interesting

[digital fjord]

as for now, for simple APIs, I would use fastAPI. Though it doesn't support ORMs out of the box, which makes it quite a bit worse than django rest

[delicate bane]

what if you learned flask + django + fastAPI, then youd be super marketable, right?

[spark holly]

only if you like math. Once I starting watching old lectures of MIT for it (with board and chalk).. I literally took naps while watching the lectures.

[digital fjord]

CS math is pretty fun tbh.

[spark holly]

Which is better for API? Flask or Django?

[digital fjord]

depends

both are good enough for just about every API

[delicate bane]

vs.