good stuff bro
#career-advice
hearty island
oh
you don't really even need to know DS/algos for that
although I do know someone in another server who had to do DS/algos questions for his web dev job
ocean ledge
tbf, you don't need anything for flask
grizzled tundra
Yeah and wherever I apply, they mention ,"experience in any of the python frameworks like Django, flask, pyramid, etc"
quaint hedge
can i ask you something in dms ball?
hearty island
it is a good skill to have
ocean ledge
post here or bust
quaint hedge
i dont want to expose it to the world yet
grizzled tundra
Oh sure
gaunt wolf
Anyone here in data analytics?
hearty island
yeah a couple people
gaunt wolf
Was wanting to get some insight in changing careers from sysadmin to DA
limpid jetty
hearty island
what is he going to post
gloomy briar
how does an engineer interview work
vapid jay
Hello
gloomy briar
hi
hearty island
oh boy
ds/algos is what they'll ask the most for interviews
but make sure your python basics are strong
gloomy briar
thats funny
gloomy briar
yea ofc
hearty island
ok
vapid jay
i mean youre gonna have to grind a lot for that if you really want it
gloomy briar
alr
hearty island
statistics, linear algebra, calculus, discrete maths?
keen hazel
Maybe come of you guys could help me figure out what jobs I could market my skills in social statistics (sociology undergrad), python, graphic design, and an in progress MBA.
hearty island
so just basic python?
keen hazel
Trying to find a way to use past experience and couple it with a newfound interest in Python and analytics
Essentially. I've been learning how to use pandas and matplotlib on my own time, but I want to get some actual professional experience with it outside the classroom
keen hazel
it's alright. I'm planning on brushing back up on it and taking a skills cert of some form online
keen hazel
I'm very good with more visual math like trig and statistics though
keen hazel
I've been going through Corey Schafer's pandas playlist and using a csv of my own
keen hazel
I've been so swamped with school I haven't wanted to look at all of that much when I'm not doing work though
I know the self-taught route is feasible for coding, but I also know employers really value real-world experience/application
keen hazel
That's what I've been doing, I lack some of the other program knowledge they're looking for sometimes (SQL, Tableau/Power BI, etc.).
Not totally appropriate to this channel, but I wish I could network some
hearty island
That's what I've been doing, I lack some of the other program knowledge they're ...
if you check what's pinned in #databases there's a SQL website to practice with
ocean ledge
I'm very good with more visual math like trig and statistics though
so you shouls be good with linalg, since its very intuitive
crude crown
It may seem irrational to take into account your gut feeling when making decisions, but really do take it into account. If I had trusted my gut feeling, I wouldn't have accepted my current job (which I'll be leaving soon fortunately).
"I have no work experience and uni was a breeze, do i just make shit up?" Pretty much yes.
Wow, you're a damn lucky one.
It really does đ
Rely on your personal network...
crude crown
Was wanting to get some insight in changing careers from sysadmin to DA
I would really consider going to SRE instead of data analytics if you're working in a sysadmin role.
(sorry for all the spam folks)
graceful shuttle
I once had an interview with a small web dev company. Final interview was with the CEO. I waited in the lobby for two hours past the scheduled meeting time (had nothing better to do). Ultimately didn't get that unpaid internship. This was years ago
crude crown
that was a blessing in disguise in hindsight. That CEO's a piece of crap.
graceful shuttle
that was a blessing in disguise in hindsight. That CEO's a piece of crap.
For real
hearty island
unpaid internship? more like volunteered slavery
graceful shuttle
Didn't know better at the time. Unpaid internships ain't worth it
hearty island
nope they def aren't
crude crown
CS as a field is spoiled in that sense
in several other fields unpaid internships are the standard.
spoiled in the good sense I mean, unpaid internships shouldn't exist no doubt about it.
vapid jay
Hey guys, I have a quick question and hope someone can help me. For education reasons I want to take part at Pycon/PyData in germany. Since I can't find any information on ticket cost anyware, can anyone who took part in the 2019 Convention tell me how much it did cost? Especially the different ticket types (company, general,etc) Any help would be much appreciated đŻ
graceful shuttle
my friend is a marketing major
Probably there's a high demand for those internships but low supply
hearty island
Probably there's a high demand for those internships but low supply
idk if marketing is the best career choice bc marketing isn't really a definitive science
most people who get into marketing already have connections
graceful shuttle
It could be a great career choice for someone who's good at building and maintaining networks, and has insight to how people think
But there's a lot of barriers to entry there
Big barrier being the volume of competing job seekers
hearty island
but talking skills are applicable to any field
even fast food workers need talking skills
they really do lol working in a kitchen is hard
graceful shuttle
Kitchen staff are vital, it's a shame they get undervalued
hearty island
I've seen so many people disrespect food workers it's ridiculous
who else is gonna cook your food then??
graceful shuttle
Marketing seems to be more knowing who to contact and knowing the exact right thing to say to achieve the desired outcome
You mentioned that earlier though
Having that existing connection to get your foot in the door
hearty island
I still think if you're good at marketing you should go into law
not saying law is easy
just saying law requires some very good communication skills
graceful shuttle
Oh for sure, law school definitely isn't for everyone though
hearty island
yeah
graceful shuttle
If I knew someone who was looking to go into marketing, I would probably try and nudge them in the direction of project management
hearty island
I actually saw something on tik tok about it
some guy got hired by Facebook for technical project management
unpopular opinion: product management is not that much easier
graceful shuttle
It wouldn't be for the difficulty level, it's just that good project management is the difference between success and failure
For big projects I mean
crude crown
product management is where I see all the big shot big mouths pivoting to eventually
it's the new "project management"
hearty island
yeah
this guy was like I got into the tech industry without writing a single line of code
like flexing or what not
graceful shuttle
I personally see a well managed project as one where the engineers have clear paths to getting things done. Have persons dedicated to clearing obstacles, and engineers dedicated to building the product
noble goblet
Anyone work at NextDoor / can talk about that co?
subtle wasp
Anyone here familiar with graduate job prospects in the UK?
sudden quartz
Same but im struggling in uni
im obviously going to die in a ditch with my 5 year graduation and 2.3 gpa
sudden quartz
Was wanting to get some insight in changing careers from sysadmin to DA
Nobody want to do data analytics. They just do it in hope of becoming data scientist without the masters degree
blazing dew
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inner wrenBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @light lion.
ashen elk
I don't get why there is a sudden craze amongst everyone to go into Data Science. I would recommend you do what you like
even if it comes with a fat paycheck, its not worth your sanity
hearty island
I don't get why there is a sudden craze amongst everyone to go into Data Science...
it got called the sexiest job of 2019
or something
ashen elk
if p**n industry got that title, would everyone go for it? no. IMO there is plenty of misconception about what data science is vs what it looks like
Most of it is data cleaning and preprocessing
hearty island
@ashen elk people also go into it bc they think theyâll do AI instantly
ashen elk
sad
hearty island
itâs that damn movie w the AI chick
thatâs what makes people think omg Iâm gonna code AI
ashen elk
Data science =/= AI
hearty island
you still need to clean and pre process data for AI
ashen elk
it encompasses AI, but that's not at the focus. Some people say that its just the old data analysis job re-skinned
ashen elk
you still need to clean and pre process data for AI
that's what data scientists are for
AFAIK ML researchers/engineers mostly focus on preprocessing, training the model, and deployment (which is prob the biggest one)
hearty island
the people who rush in also get turned off by the math
lime prism
My name is Connor, I'm the Android sent by CyberLife
sudden quartz
Data Science is just Statistics with Machine Learning and Data mining. Then you analyze ze data. But you need a masters for some reason
I would liket to be a Data Scientist because its sorta like a detective position I heard, and Im really good at logical deduction/investigation
sudden quartz
data analytics huh
Data Analytics is what Data Science is but less compsci stuff
Yeah lol, thats why I dont want to touch it Data Analytics.
Even though Data Science im interested in
hearty island
So itâs just data viz?
so it cleans data and then graphs it?
whatâs a business analyst
main thicket
Data Science is just Statistics with Machine Learning and Data mining. Then you ...
"For some reason" being it's hard and mathematically heavy
sudden quartz
I want to have the sexist job of 2019 so bad but most jobs in my state ask for Masters preffered
main thicket
+ DS is more compsci
DS is more statistics
lime prism
is that from that game Detroit something
Indeed lol
sudden quartz
DS is more statistics
I mean DS has more compsci than DA. Its obviously just stats
main thicket
Moving SWE -> DS is hard
sudden quartz
I am doing SWE lol but the positions still ask for masters
hearty island
what state?
main thicket
Not really specific to a state, pretty common everywhere to want masters or PhD
sudden quartz
Moving SWE -> DS is hard
Since thats one of my paths can you explain why
hearty island
doing anything in CS -> hard
main thicket
Yeah pretty much
DS wants people with a good understanding of data, statistical models and mathematical intuition. SWEs don't develop any of that, whether in CS degrees or in SWE work
Which is why physicists and engineers have easier time moving into DS than most SWEs
hearty island
doesnât make SWE any easier
lime prism
Guys, I'm currently 10th grade atm and I want to pursue my career as Game Developer, do you know what should I do? Bcs I'm really really want start from the basic
main thicket
Given they've been dealing with mathematical models, data, etc since the beginning
sudden quartz
Wait... Compsci degree can have a significant amount of math though as well... same as engineering
main thicket
Guys, I'm currently 10th grade atm and I want to pursue my career as Game Develo...
Start learning C# or C++, learn a game engine, start making games
sudden quartz
I have a minors in Math
lime prism
Start learning C# or C++, learn a game engine, start making games
Yashhh, thank you for the advice
main thicket
Wait... Compsci degree can have a significant amount of math though as well... s...
Not really? You might do diffeq and stuff but engineering degrees go much deeper into maths in engineering subjects, and then on top of that they actually deal with mathematical models and actual data
Like, many engineering subjects like signal processing and control theory are just maths subjects in disguise. And we have actual data to fit and play around with, actual physics based things to model
CS majors basically touch on intro maths subjects and then never touch them again the rest of their degree except one or two subjects they might take as electives
sudden quartz
Not really? You might do diffeq and stuff but engineering degrees go much deeper...
intro applied math at least
main thicket
Engineering is very maths/physics theory heavy, it's applied in the "dealing with physics/maths of useful problems" rather than "dealing with physics/maths of useless ones"
main thicket
intro applied math at least
Yeah but having done intro maths subjects isn't the same as building actual skills in the long term
It's not just the maths subjects, it's actually developing those skills past 2nd year
sudden quartz
CS is definently more pure maths, and applied in the cs sense like AI and algorithms. But for example what about me and my math minor? Is that good enough? I take senior level maths
and can take senior level stats
main thicket
I mean, what does your math minor include?
Math minor definitions vary a lot between schools
sudden quartz
I did Calculus, Linear Alg, Intro to Probability and Inference and can take even more applied maths if I stay in uni another year
and stats
like the stuff you mentioned are classes im think of taking, signal theory, topology, etc.
main thicket
Aren't those just intro maths subjects? Basically anyone graduating from physics/eng/maths/econ/etc takes calc/linalg/stats and more
main thicket
Calc 3, linalg, and stats are taken by basically anyone graduating from physics/eng/maths/econ/etc. Phys/eng/maths will take diffeq too
And then phys/eng have more maths taught in their own courses
What makes you qualified compared to those majors? They're more mathematically mature, have actually done data modelling in their own field
That's why the SWE->DS is so hard
There's just so so much competition from people who are actually really good at maths in comparison
Especially because DS is nowadays the common go-to career choice for phds in maths/phys/stats/etc
sudden quartz
Lol
main thicket
It's really not about sexy, it's about thousands of phds and bachelors grads graduating in maths/phys/stats/econ/eng/etc that want to get into a career that includes more maths
Which makes the competition for a CS major, even one with a math minor, difficult
sudden quartz
I should go into a networking field tbh. I find a cs major only field attractive
main thicket
There's still a lot of software eng surrounding ML
You won't be doing much ML yourself but you could get more exposure and stuff
sudden quartz
You can always get your premed then go MedSchool to be a neuro surgeon
hearty island
But Iâm confused by how project managers even interview
do they have to do those DS/algos questions like everyone else?
sudden quartz
Honestly what are the best fields for ONLY computer science majors? Excusing the obvious exceptions. Networking only?
sudden quartz
do they have to do those DS/algos questions like everyone else?
definently not
hearty island
then what even is the interview⌠their knowledge on tech stacks?
main thicket
@hearty island
main thicket
It's harder than it looks
hearty island
yeah it def is
main thicket
It's from the advice page for Microsoft internship interviews for PM intern stuff
hearty island
it seems like you need a holistic understanding of a lot of languages
true harness
some of those questions are actually p good
main thicket
PMs aren't programmers, you don't need to know languages
hearty island
But then arenât they just a middle man?
main thicket
You need to have a broad understanding of technologies and how to make decisions between them systematically
hearty island
so a middle man
main thicket
But then arenât they just a middle man?
Yes? All management is "middle man"
true harness
although question 5 is a bit funny, 1 million numbers would take like 0.1 seconds to loop through
main thicket
It's not meant to be a dev interview :p
main thicket
Not necessarily. It's a different career, you're not better than PMs just because you can code lol
In practicality, you'll never code as a PM
PM is about project/product management. Any other skills are irrelevant and usually any coding ability you may have is less important than someone else's ability to make good decisions without even the knowledge of code
If you're already good at PM, you can swing code as an advantage. But a coder will usually be a terrible PM
hearty island
interesting
Plus if I mention that I can code wonât they just say oh well why arenât you applying for SWE?
What do you even say to that
lapis harness
although question 5 is a bit funny, 1 million numbers would take like 0.1 second...
Right but logically its quicker to recursively partition the list into two parts to find the number rather than sequentially detecting it.
hearty island
is that supposed to be a joke?
main thicket
@hearty island Is what a joke?
hearty island
@main thicket what midicne just said had nothing to do w what we were talking about
main thicket
It's replying to a previous response to a PM interview question
true harness
Right but logically its quicker to recursively partition the list into two parts...
maybe, but i can code a for loop in less than 30 seconds, and it would probably take more for your approach ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
lapis harness
maybe, but i can code a for loop in less than 30 seconds, and it would probably ...
Could be, but this is exactly why the question would be asked. To see how you make decisions.
main thicket
maybe, but i can code a for loop in less than 30 seconds, and it would probably ...
Your approach only works if you only need to do it once. When you have > million things to search and you're doing it millions of times a day, it adds up.
hearty island
death note music starts
main thicket
Decision making is a lot more nuanced than "it takes less than 1 second so lets go with the easier option"
true harness
of course, but in this case, it doesn't matter
main thicket
It absolutely does matter because that's the entire point of a PM interview. To see your decision making process when a problem is presented. Will you make a rash decision and give the easiest method? Or will you go straight to the optimal method? Or will you ask about context and elucidate in which situations you'd do what
A SWE interview is about fluently solving algorithmic problems, a PM is more about decision making and problem contextualisation
In a SWE interview, you should be able to go straight to optimal solution and explain what you did and you'll do quite well. Not necessarily the same for PMs
true harness
it wasn't a rash decision though, because the size of the problem was small, a simpler solution will work. no need to optimize since it's already fast enough
graceful shuttle
Business Analyst is Data Analyst
Business Analyst =/= Data Analyst
For some businesses with custom software, software becomes a representation of their business processes. Users of those systems are employees who are trying to achieve a business outcome. A business analyst is an expert in those processes. If someone is going to propose, "hey lets make the software do x, y, and z" they'll ask a business analyst if that would be in-line with the business (bet you're sick of seeing the word "business" now right?)
Data analysts classify and analyze data to help a business make informed decisions based on the data. A data analyst might be asked to help the business decide whether or not to market a new product
obtuse ridge
hi all. what are some options to get free python certifications?
graceful shuttle
My thought on certs is, avoid the language ones and go for ones in some hot platform, like AWS
Cause you'll learn a heck of a lot more by going over things like networking and how to embed your code in their system than learning about the semantics of a specific language
But if you're trying to apply for a job that asks for the cert, then it's a different story
delicate bane
Right but logically its quicker to recursively partition the list into two parts...
yeah binary search tree is more efficient
i think the question is more about explaining why you chose your decisions tho rather than anything
delicate bane
For some businesses with custom software, software becomes a representation of t...
yeah dont business analysts have WAY more domain knowledge than a data analyst (unless theyve been working in that industry for forever)
i was told sometimes people use this website for business/industry knowledge. is this true? https://www.ibisworld.com/
graceful shuttle
yeah dont business analysts have WAY more domain knowledge than a data analyst (...
Oh yeah, for sure, business analysts are going to be the experts on certain domains. The data analysts are the people with the technical skills necessary to move data around, store it, clean it, process it, and present it
I'm personally not familiar with ibisworld, maybe someone else is
Like a BA might be concerned with who is able to move a purchase order through their system, and certain details around that. A DA might be asked to look at all the purchase orders and try and detect ways to reduce costs (like submitting purchases in bulk or something)
Just spitballin though
delicate bane
My thought on certs is, avoid the language ones and go for ones in some hot plat...
was thinking about doing an AWS cert before summer
the easiest level one
if i get this internship, part of their tech stack is AWS
graceful shuttle
I'm biased because I have one, it's good learning because you cover a breadth of stuff
delicate bane
so i dont wanna know nothing going in
graceful shuttle
Even if you don't get it, it's good to study for
delicate bane
i was thinking the same
AWS has majority of the market
and it seems like itll stay that way for a while
graceful shuttle
Yeah, it's pretty big
ocean ledge
certs are useless, and you will learn about AWS as you work anyway
the cloud isn't THAT difficult
delicate bane
graceful shuttle
It's useful if your employer requires it
delicate bane
maybe if i find myself with down time then 
graceful shuttle
If you're paying out of pocket, maybe save the cash and study. That's a good option for a student. If your employed and your employer pays, then no harm either
ocean ledge
It's useful if your employer requires it
there are employers that require cloud certs? crazy
graceful shuttle
Language certs though, yeah those are totally useless
graceful shuttle
there are employers that require cloud certs? crazy
Haha, yeah those employers exist
Definitely not the majority
ocean ledge
the most we do is a 1 week "cloud bootcamp" to get people used to some heavy AWS services
but really it's 90% a terraform bootcamp
because you know, rip to cloudformation
delicate bane
graceful shuttle
Applause for those who don't rely on AWS 100%
ocean ledge
cloud agnostic infra is the way to go
ocean ledge
that's why people should focus on cloud agnostic techs
like k8s, pulumi, snowflake, etc
with some mastery over one major cloud
(i.e., you should know that aws lambdas just finally got efs mount support)
though i don't know the requirements for devops people
i'm sure it's more
i'm mostly speaking to the datasci perspective
graceful shuttle
Going into the cloud and relying on one provider for everything is basically antithetical to going into the cloud in the first place
Cause if you want to switch providers, you may have to redo a bunch of stuff to decouple from your old providers services
Or maybe I'm oversimplifying . . .
main thicket
antithetical is a strong word... You don't go into cloud to decouple onto infra, you do it because your own infra is prohibitively expensive especially at the beginning
Which cloud still fixes
graceful shuttle
The main benefits of AWS being cost cutting and flexibility as opposed to what you get with a dedicated data center. Which is high costs and limited flexibility. And don't get me wrong, those benefits make a lot of sense to a lot of people. It's just that if you decide, "lets scrap everything and jump 100% into AWS", who's to say something cheaper won't come along and you do it all over again
ocean ledge
this is like, my number one friction against learning cloud-specific DSLs
like cloudformation
graceful shuttle
Wordpress is an interesting example. It's supposed to make things easy for bloggers. They get all the benefits of other people developing plugins and themes. Fast-forward a few years, and so much of the web is running Wordpress that if Wordpress goes down a huge chunk of the internet does
delicate bane
graceful shuttle
I see a similar trend with AWS
delicate bane
interesting
little trellis
If AWS goes down, govt infrastructure goes down
graceful shuttle
But I still think it's worth it to study for an AWS cert đ
little trellis
I believe that my Google Cloud Professional Data Engineer cert was worth it. I wouldn't pay for one myself though
hearty island
certs mean nothing if you donât fully absorb the knowledge behind it
delicate bane
If AWS goes down, govt infrastructure goes down
i think government here uses azure more
hearty island
what is it with all these goddamn tik tok people arguing w me about bootcamps
little trellis
Yeah, Azure has a separate cloud for it or whatever
graceful shuttle
certs mean nothing if you donât fully absorb the knowledge behind it
You speak the true true
hearty island
you donât need bootcamps to learn how to code
delicate bane
free money
hearty island
people think bootcamps are a great gateway into the tech worldâŚ
Really?
Bootcamps just love dangling FAANG jobs in front of your face
there is no guarantee you actually get the job
delicate bane
i mean. you have to hustle more but its technically possible
little trellis
Almost any job can be made better with coding. Start learning for free and try to find a way to make it relevant to what you're already doing.
hearty island
you can hustle without a bootcamp and still get a FAANG job
Iâm not aiming for a FAANG job
but Iâm just sayin
delicate bane
little trellis
FAANG is overrated
little trellis
Still a very good resume builder. But will you get the most satisfaction out of it?
hearty island
you know
The free food is just there to make workers stay longer
so is the gym area
little trellis
Of course. Along with games and whatever else
graceful shuttle
International Business Machines, they still make computers right? đ
hearty island
yeah but if you just play games youâre viewed as a slacker
and the sleeping pods
if you sleep you also have to stay longer
hearty island
free food is ok but donât actually fall for the trap and think the company actually cares about you
little trellis
Well, I mean you're salaried. So you don't technically have to
hearty island
also it costs like 60 M to pay for the food
little trellis
But yeah, the image
little trellis
We'll see what the advertising bubble bursts
hearty island
@delicate bane remember that Goldman Sachs woman who left the company
she did a video on how hostile the superiors were about her leaving
delicate bane
hmm? ofc i remember her
delicate bane
hearty island
They called the head of the department in Hong Kong
About her quitting
Also hereâs a daily reminder to not date your coworkers
hearty island
@delicate bane https://youtu.be/DB8x7g8gu2o
delicate bane
@graceful shuttle what about docker? that was another tech i wanted to learn
little trellis
Docker is great
hearty island
please do not date your coworkers and have a strict no dating policy at work
there is a reason those HR policies exist
graceful shuttle
Keep your head down, do the work, leave on time. Such is the way to enlightenment
delicate bane
little trellis
Or work from home and avoid the majority of it all
graceful shuttle
Then it becomes, do the work and log out on time
little trellis
And actually take a break
graceful shuttle
Breaks're good
delicate bane
goldman sachs def sounds like a...something place to work at
its like the other girl who talked about her internship there
graceful shuttle
Got a link to the internship vid?
delicate bane
Got a link to the internship vid?
"youve got the engineering team"
"then youve got strats"
"pReStiGe"
@hearty island đ
im dead
gets me everytime
delicate bane
graceful shuttle
Must've been a slow week to have a partner sit in the same room as an analyst
delicate bane
dude it gets worse
hearty island
âGood leaverâ
delicate bane
graceful shuttle
Whoms't'd've done the same thing
hearty island
Goldman Sachs is apparently
hearty island
Idk I havenât seen a worse story than hers
I have actually ran out of coding youtubers to watch
delicate bane
i mean i feel like people just dont share those experiences as much
delicate bane
I have actually ran out of coding youtubers to watch
podcasts đ
hearty island
Are there funny podcasts about careers in coding?
delicate bane
idk
shadow moss
are companies really that particular when you leave
No
it's possible that manager really liked having her and didn't want to lose her
graceful shuttle
Some stackoverflow responses can be considered funny
delicate bane
graceful shuttle
Maybe text-to-speech them
delicate bane
Maybe text-to-speech them
đ
shadow moss
since internships are generally paid long interviews for a company
if you are not working out, they can just not hire you back
delicate bane
i mean for real jobs
dont companies have stuff you sign where you cant go to their competitors when you leave
or something
graceful shuttle
Depends on who hires you I think
delicate bane
but in US, they are getting very limited
thats good for workers then
delicate bane
Depends on who hires you I think
like which company? or..?
something like negotiations?
graceful shuttle
Yeah, the company
delicate bane
ah ok
graceful shuttle
That internship vid is making me chuckle. Your distance from a table makes you more "prestigious". HA!
delicate bane
That internship vid is making me chuckle. Your distance from a table makes you m...
her storytelling is so funny too đ
hearty island
Sheâs so funny
vapid jay
Can you suggest some good youtubers for me, a fresher
graceful shuttle
George Hotz, he's the man
vapid jay
ok, I'll check
graceful shuttle
There's an archive of his past streams: https://www.youtube.com/c/georgehotzarchive/about
He was the first person to remove the sim lock on the iPhone when he was 17
He usually codes in Python
vapid jay
Oh nice
main thicket
The free food is just there to make workers stay longer
Idk why people say that. Everyone needs to eat lunch so free is nice. And few people stay around till dinner time and those that do don't do any work then anyway.
vapid jay
Is there any youtube who, like guides you what to do to land a job in university on campus placements or even off campus
graceful shuttle
There's this guy who has good career advice for folks who may not have the academic background for software engineering: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaO6VoaYJv4kS-TQO_M-N_g
graceful shuttle
There's this other person but I can't remember their name . . .
vapid jay
There's this other person but I can't remember their name . . .
Np, I think this clement guy is pretty good
main thicket
Is there any youtube who, like guides you what to do to land a job in university...
in my experience, internet personalities around careers are biased and only experienced in a few things
it's best to ask around multiple people
hearty island
People say that bc itâs true
delicate bane
on campus placements? like a student worker job? those are chill
hearty island
Companies want to you to feel like you never have to leave
delicate bane
hearty island
that is why they offer free food
vapid jay
Um no
hearty island
you can disagree w me all you like I donât really care
delicate bane
think hes talking to me, das
vapid jay
Its like companies participate in on campus placement drives, when you are in the final year, and they offer you jobs, you join after the degree completion
delicate bane
ah gotcha
vapid jay
I am not sure but its probably some india-only thing
delicate bane
we call them career fairs here
vapid jay
Oh nice, didn't knew that
vapid jay
Suck in what way ?
hearty island
It was just a matter of the person seeing your question
vapid jay
They are pretty good unless u are in some tier 3 or lower college
hearty island
and there was no option to really give them your resume or anything
vapid jay
Dont know about that
One thing is that, u might be limited to few companies depending on which college you are from.
main thicket
People say that bc itâs true
What makes you say that lol
I know a lot of people at google, microsoft, other big companies. None of them work work significantly past 40 hours (lots of them don't even work 40) and pretty much never work outside normal work hours*
*except if they're on-call
Big N isn't a finance company or something that drags you through 50-60 hour weeks
hearty island
If you canât recognize why itâs true I see no point in arguing about it
main thicket
It's a pretty strong accusation...
For someone who almost certainly hasn't even worked in a FAANG company to tell exactly why they provide particular benefits (even employees don't know the reasoning), as if it's a conspiracy to get you to do free overtime
Have you considered that it's a race to get the best developers and they just want to be competitive in the benefits they provide?
Which is why they have foosball or pool on every floor or why they have high salaries or why they are treated so cushy in general
Or that their average employee age is much younger than other companies, and to attract them providing food which many young people haven't really figured out is a big benefit?
main thicket
You're not really responding, you just linked to a random psychologist saying people will eat anything at work that's free because they dont have to pay for it.
It says nothing about free food as a benefit, just of someone putting out random donuts. It says nothing specific to big tech companies. It's not a psychological study even from what I'm reading?
hearty island
If you canât see the reasoning behind that thereâs really no point in arguing
Youâre not changing what I think no matter what you do
so just quit it
main thicket
??
hearty island
idk how to say it more clearly
main thicket
You've just made a random conspiracy claim and said "if u cant see it, idk man"
hearty island
Have you ever worked at a FAANG company? You may have talked to some people but have you ever worked at one?
main thicket
I've worked at Microsoft, does that count? @hearty island
Not strictly in the acronym but I'm sure it's more in the vein than Netflix is
They don't technically provide free food, just heavily discounted food and free drinks, but I definitely understand FAANG work culture much better
main thicket
Have you ever worked at a FAANG company? You may have talked to some people but ...
So, have you?
shadow moss
Startups are more likely to drag you around with terrible hours
main thicket
Yeah, FAANGs are chill af. Half the people at my group at microsoft just sent an email with "WFH" if they didn't feel like working and then they'd just stay at home doing nothing, mostly just reply to Teams/emails if someone asked something
shadow moss
Are you v- at MS?
main thicket
I was t-
But yeah for my group, the only time anyone even worked more than 40 hours was the JEDI contract people around their internal deadlines
Also the on-call stuff sounded like it sucked, partly why I rejected the grad offer
shadow moss
I have friends at JEDI, they said it's pretty chill mainly because all .gov clearance stuff
it's not as easy to replace them
main thicket
Yeah, my group was dying for anyone with clearance to hire
But back in early Jan last year was an internal JEDI deadline so they were rushing to get rid of data analytics stuff
Real crunch around the time
shadow moss
and while .gov is suffocating with paperwork, it's also slower, they move SOOOOO slow so rarely are things "GO GO GO"
main thicket
Defence is a weird thing. Not sure why anyone would even want to work in defence except if they really want some security or unless it's like one of those fancier high tech projects in robotics or something
shadow moss
đ°
shadow moss
alot of people I know who work in defense is money related, they can have 40 hour work week, family, house with picket fence and dog
and when it comes to tech, it's slow moving so it's not constant rat race of learning
main thicket
I think most people I know in defence are for the high tech projects. My background is more hardware and stuff, so I know a fair few people going into US or Australian defence contractors to work on fancy killing machines
Their pace of work is can be a fair bit faster than the more boring software contract work and stuff from the sounds of it. Of course the con being clearance, beaurocracy and making killing machines
shadow moss
it probably moves slower then you think
main thicket
Nah, I've had people confirm they're in fast paced teams that burns money fast and makes prototypes very fast
It's just defence RnD that's fast, especially in smaller companies.
The actual implementation is balls slow
marsh wind
Research for defense and related is a weird thing
My supervisor in the lab is regularly obtaining some funding from French DGA with pretty much no effort
They don't really follow up on how money are spent nor they follow the results
As I was told that whatever they spend on us is negligible sums for them and that they will actually care if anything interesting comes out of this research, otherwise they will just keep pouring some $$$
vapid jay
What foreign language would be most useful for a software developer in the USA?
My university requires us to take 4 foreign language courses.
I was considering stuff like Chinese, Russian, but planning on settling for Spanish just because it's the one I could maintain over time I think.
tall surge
Spanish or Chinese would be the best since the largest populated areas those with English are the most spoken languages
vapid jay
Cool, I'll probably stick with Spanish then because Chinese seems like too much work when I should really be worrying more about software dev
crude crown
it got called the sexiest job of 2019
The original HBR article for that came out in freaking 2012.
crude crown
I would liket to be a Data Scientist because its sorta like a detective position...
Any position can be a detective position, it mostly depends on the type of project you're working on.
crude crown
Like, many engineering subjects like signal processing and control theory are ju...
Pretty much, I can confirm that as someone who studied ECE.
crude crown
Honestly what are the best fields for ONLY computer science majors? Excusing the...
Distributed systems is an obvious one nowadays...
main thicket
They don't really follow up on how money are spent nor they follow the results
Might just be a French thing. Defence definitely follows up in my experience/knowledge of Aus/US defence stuff. Definitely easy to get funding which is cool
marsh wind
it's not huge amount they give tho
like idk, 30-50k a year maybe? something like phd and/or postdoc plus maybe something to buy machines/go to conferences
main thicket
Can't relate, defence can give lots of money here. They're stacked.
Adds some annoyance though. Once a friend in my robotics lab blabbed about something part of the lab to someone else and the prof had to go around handing NDAs to people so she couldn't be held liable and charged.
main thicket
Pretty much, I can confirm that as someone who studied ECE.
I TA both signals and controls lel (and robotics too), they're rough subjects
marsh wind
Can't relate, defence can give _lots_ of money here. They're stacked.
I think here too, but if it's more applied stuff
ours ( well, theirs) was very academic still, ie there was no NDA even
I guess as they ain't sure if it will ever prove useful they are ready to throw some not big money into sink
and then if one day it will form into something usable they will put it under some embargos and start to invest heavily
maiden solar
I've worked at Microsoft, does that count? <@!567030124306759710>
he needs some milk and reality slap
my friend got summer intern at google, pretty much like what you said
main thicket
Lol, I was really wtfing a lot. Like, bro, who tf are you claiming conspiracy theories and questioning where I've worked, what's your experience with this
maiden solar
comparing with my company (Japanese automotive industry), I was like "wtf" when my friend told me about google work cultures
main thicket
Oh ha, automotive industry is a mix bag
I like how they generally don't have any technical component to interviews
But their work culture sounds... Outdated unless you're in autonomous or RnD teams
Japanese automotive sounds scarier
I'll probs end up at a self driving car company at some point given they have so many good jobs for my field, and tons have real nice benefits
maiden solar
Im in RnD teams, yes their work culture is very outdated and... strict rules always be obeyed completely
main thicket
Yeah nah, I'm good with like, those small spinout companies from big companies or the well funded startups
Although I do really want to see one of those massive simulink codebases that get auto-generated into embedded C/C++
Sounds mad fun, love simulink
maiden solar
the problem with startups and even well funded one are if you're lucky enough, you'll have clear career path and work life balance
or you'll end up in toxic work culture, boss/senior push you harder bcs you know, they need fund based on performance
or worst. you'll get replace with cheaper one
marsh wind
idk where the startup I am at stands in terms of "well funded" but so far it's an interesting experinece, even if not the best/most pleasant one (at least wrt to what other people said me as it is my first industry job)
main thicket
or you'll end up in toxic work culture, boss/senior push you harder bcs you know...
I'll just leave lol, not running out of companies to work for
main thicket
or worst. you'll get replace with cheaper one
There's no good cheap robotics engineers, it's a weird field full of people with master's/PhDs and everyone's dying for good ones
It's a specialised field that you don't get direct training in, requires knowledge of multiple fields (mech/elec/software/theory) and pretty physics and math heavy
Supply is lowwww
maiden solar
nah, master's/PhDs will prefer work in mature companies, they often pay higher dividends than those in a growth industries (startups)
main thicket
nah, master's/PhDs will prefer work in mature companies, they often pay higher d...
Not sure about what country you're in but US has big culture of well (VC) funded startups that pay as much as big companies because they're competing against them
Especially Boston/Pittsburgh/LA/SF/etc
maiden solar
Ah I see, maybe bcs I'm living and working in jpn currently, not so many startups overhere
even startups in japan are declining
lack a vibrant startup culture
main thicket
That's probably the main factor. The US has dozens of self driving car companies you've never heard of ready to pay you a total comp of $150-200k for new grads
More for the nicer companies like Waymo or something
maiden solar
That's probably the main factor. The US has dozens of self driving car companies...
my god thats crazy man
main thicket
Mind you, you actually need to be talented. But the startups have enough vc money and it's a race
maiden solar
I cant even imagine my boss willingly pay some new grads with that amount of salaries lmao
hard bureaucracy, typical asian company
main thicket
Big tech companies (google, ms etc) have starting TCs of $170k-180k ish
Good to keep in mind not all of that is cash (some is stock), and it's all in high cost areas
main thicket
For sure, the US might not be the nicest place to live but it's a nice place to earn for a few years before you go back to a nicer country to live in
vapid jay
Any advice for a CS freshman? Trying to figure out how to be competitive for some of the nicer internships next summer. I have like a year of python experience but it was mostly piping data, making chron jobs, not serious development. Have been doing like 1 hour of leetcode a day and trying to make some fullstack web stuff.
main thicket
Any advice for a CS freshman? Trying to figure out how to be competitive for som...
Keep doing projects, get involved with societies, talk to smaller companies personally
vapid jay
@main thicket
What do you mean by societies, how do you talk to smaller companies right now?
Not being sarcastic, legit need ideas. Do you mean open source stuff for societies?
main thicket
Student clubs and societies in CS stuff. Talk to them at careers fair, through societies/events/whoever else you meet who works at a company, cold email them directly, etc
My first internship was through a company at a hackathon I won a prize in. My brothers one was a company he cold emailed to ask to intern
vapid jay
I see, what sort of projects are worth listing on a portfolio or resume?
hearty island
Canon used to offer free food to its workers too
not a big tech company like Microsoft sure
vapid jay
But if ur arguing the food is to keep people there, then you post it doesn't work, doesn't that go against what you said before lol @hearty island
hearty island
Long term
vapid jay
Idk bro I'd rather be getting free food at Google than working at McDonald's unable to quit because my kids will starve
This FAANG hate really makes no sense
Compared to the vast majority of non stem jobs they appear to be great
main thicket
I see, what sort of projects are worth listing on a portfolio or resume?
Whatever best ones you have
hearty island
Howâs the work culture at Microsoft? Iâve heard some things about amazon, Facebook, and Apple
main thicket
Or most relevant
vapid jay
Yeah I'll probably grind 1-2 full stack projects then
hearty island
not that Iâm good enough yet to pass a whiteboard interview
vapid jay
Ans try and learn some niche worth deploying after like ds or ml or w/e
main thicket
TL;DR:
Amazon sucks. It's team dependent but generally you're more overworked and paid less, and there's a lot of "tweak button for 5 months to increase sales by 0.2%" type work
Google is a bunch of young people trying to start new products to one up each other and get raises. Fewer people caring about cohesive strategy and maintenance. Lots of internal tooling.
Microsoft is more older people, very product focused, lacks somewhat in internal tooling quality because of how it used to be. Good CEO and direction. Good work life balance.
Apple is incredibly secretive and you won't be able to say much about what you did there so I have no fucking clue what the culture there is like
main thicket
Facebook I've heard good things about. Seems surprisingly professional and to the point. Good tooling.
Yeah Netflix only hires seniors and pays fully in cash, no stock
hearty island
I really screwed up not going to Georgia for the textron offer
it was paid too đ
main thicket
Personally I'm avoiding Facebook and Amazon because ethics yikes. I'd like to work at Microsoft but their company vision doesn't fit with my robotics career goals. Google has most work for me because they're all over the place and have no vision which works in my favour. Apple is a bit anti consumer but they have cool work for me. But it's too secretive and I just don't vibe with that
hearty island
so you see yourself leaving Microsoft?
main thicket
so you see yourself leaving Microsoft?
I already rejected my grad offer like last year lol
hearty island
oh
main thicket
Haven't been at Microsoft since Jan '20
Moved onto doing my integrated master's
They gave me an offer for SWE which they would switch to data science in a few months as an internal transfer so I wouldn't have to take the discipline change interview
But screw SWE and screw data science, I wanna do hardware, control and robotics
main thicket
I tried to get a robotics offer at ms but their only robotics team was in incubation and mostly just a support team for Carnegie Mellon robotics
So they didn't have the headcount to hire me anyway
I rejected their offer and then the bastards opened a robotics lab in partnership with my dream PhD University in Switzerland
Like 5 months later
hearty island
that sucks
main thicket
Meh, pretty happy with what I'm doing right now. I can always just hit up my recruiter again later
hearty island
What do you think of the SWE day in the life videos
main thicket
Never seen em, don't care
There's like dozens of Devs on any programming discord you can talk to. No need to see day in the life videos by someone trying to show appeal of a particular career choice to high schoolers
Most people in most careers can't be bothered to even make those videos
vapid jay
Guys what can I do with python for living
hearty island
web dev, data science, SWE
vapid jay
Swe ?
hearty island
software engineering
vapid jay
How exactly explain to me
hearty island
@main thicket do you recommend any good books for software design?
It seems like they ask software design questions and whiteboard DS/algos questions
main thicket
Not part of the software world ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Only had a brief stint with the machine learning side
hearty island
I thought you were a SWE intern for Microsoft
main thicket
Knowledge on pure software design, design patterns, etc is pretty limited.
I was
But nobody asks for software design to interns and new grads
It's not expected knowledge
main thicket
Not the big companies that I know of. Just leetcode algos and some more applied questions.
hearty island
well all my work on DS/algos seems like itâs paying off
bold epoch
is it common to see non cs grads working as programmers/data scientists?
main thicket
is it common to see non cs grads working as programmers/data scientists?
Extemely
Data science is not a CS career to begin with
So that one absolutely
bold epoch
ah here our cs degree splits up into data science and pure programming i believe
main thicket
My group at ms had more non CS than it did CS
bold epoch
i think in 3rd year you chose
near ocean
Data science is not usually a bachelor degree
hearty island
yeah
bold epoch
and how can a non cs student stand out among those that have the qualifications
main thicket
For all intents and purposes, there's no difference between CS and non CS related quantitative degrees. You need to show the same skills the same way.
hearty island
would you say you need a bootcamp to break into the industry if you're not a CS major
I refuse to believe that's true
main thicket
Nup, not even
hearty island
what is up w these damn tik tokers recommending bootcamps to these poor desperate CS kids
they prob get paid hella to advertise
main thicket
Coding is trivial to self teach for anyone with a STEM background, you learn a lot harder stuff over your 4 years.
Most people can pull it off
bold epoch
i think some bootcamps help you get the foot in the door or so ive heard
hearty island
not really
near ocean
Why are you even listening to tiktokers
main thicket
They might, still pretty unnecessary
bold epoch
yeah for sure
bold epoch
a lot of free content out there
hearty island
probably bc I spend so much time on this server
main thicket
There's a few fields in the world for which the training and education into the field have been extremely commercialised. Bootcamps for Dev. MOOCs for data science. Med degree entry practice. Etc
main thicket
When a career becomes hyped as fuck, people realise they can rip you off by promising you a chance into the career
bold epoch
IBM have some good free courses
hearty island
why give you the gold when they can give you shovels
main thicket
Then the field starts getting saturated as everyone's trying to enter it
hearty island
it's more profitable to give people shovels than to give them actual gold
that is a metaphor
main thicket
Except in things like medicine etc where the supply is artificially limited by those in charge
hearty island
you wouldn't say it's being limited by these algos/DS questions?
main thicket
no, they're just test. The best people pass. Either way, you get 1000 people applying for 1 job which saturates the market
bold epoch
i got railed in a coding interview by them
I hadnt realised an internship interview would require algo leet study
main thicket
The difference is in medicine, theres only X seats for med students. There's a rough entry process in the beginning but when you're in, you exist in a market where the number of seats is exactly maintained so you never have massive competition
The kind that saturates a field and drops salaries
hearty island
they asked me some graph traversal algorithm question in my interview
I hadn't even heard of the damn thing yet
main thicket
Graph traversal and linked list questions are together probably the most common questions asked
bold epoch
you both cs grads?
main thicket
nope
hearty island
no I'm a business student at Hofstra
main thicket
bold epoch
oh cool
marsh wind
I rejected their offer and then the bastards opened a robotics lab in partnershi...
ETH Zurich? đ
vapid jay
@main thicket do you have any opinion on a cs ba vs cs bs?
main thicket
ETH Zurich? đ
Indeed, ETHZ is badass in robotics
vapid jay
Here it's the same, except I think compilers, two other classes become cs 4/5xxx elective or something basically
marsh wind
they are badass in many things heh
main thicket
<@193268441476497410> do you have any opinion on a cs ba vs cs bs?
If no one even cares if you have a CS degree, they don't care if there's an S at the end of A at the end
vapid jay
Got it
hearty island
CS has become a field where you don't even need a degree to get a job coding
there are people arguing that you don't even need to go to college for coding
main thicket
It's rough starting out without a degree because hard to get people to take you seriously
And you don't have internship opportunities
hearty island
that is true
vapid jay
Yeah, I just wanted to get the degree for the maths exp and work visa opportunities later
Because I know I won't teach myself math of my own volition
hearty island
or you could make friends here and learn the math together
along with college supplementing it
vapid jay
I think most countries (outside EU) still want a bachelor's to grant work visas
Maybe I'm wrong
ocean ledge
it would be horrible to work with a team of just non stem educated coders though
so much fundamental knowledge lacked
main thicket
Oh yeah, visa reasons is a good reason to get a degree too.
Most visa acts have a "or equivalent work experience"
But the ratio of work experience years and degree years is weird
Eg (not 100% on this), in most cases to the US 3 years of work experience â one year in a degree
So a 4 year degree equivalent is 12 years of work experience without a degree
hearty island
I don't like that Kaggle just encourages people to rush into sklearn
I get that they're trying to be welcoming
but it's not really helping anyone
they should at least include the math you need to know
I guess that scares people off tho?
vapid jay
Sooo
main thicket
I've never used kaggle. Pretty sure no one uses it anymore. Like 3 years ago when data science mooc commercialisation was at its height, it was very popular
main thicket
I haven't seen anyone mention it recently
vapid jay
But how
hearty island
that Stanford ML course that uses Octave actually says how much math is required
vapid jay
Can anyone tell me
hearty island
linear algebra, calculus, statistics, discrete math
vapid jay
Wtf
main thicket
Discrete maths you can generally skip, not really useful for ML
vapid jay
Money is good man
hearty island
at least matrices multiplication
the more linear algebra you know the easier pandas is gonna be
vapid jay
Guys do you work for money
vapid jay
Or does money work for you
bold epoch
lmao
main thicket
Yes I do, I just don't answer vague questions like "how do I make lots of money"
marsh wind
i would not say linear algebra correlates much to pandas....
main thicket
Yeah pandas is more programming version of excel
vapid jay
You gotta make money work for you
vapid jay
To succeed
hearty island
fine maybe not Pandas but linear algebra is definitely important
vapid jay
It's all about money these days
main thicket
Meh, basic matrix manipulation yes, linear algebra not so much
hearty island
I don't actually know it yet bc I'm focusing on ds/algos for now
marsh wind
yeah we know đ
vapid jay
Do you invest you guys?
main thicket
Maybe I'm biased because my fields are actually linear algebra heavy where linear algebra properties are important and it's not just fancy notation for lots of operations
main thicket
Wouldn't really say ML is much linear algebra unless you're doing like, linear regression and basically just that
main thicket
I wish I knew more statistics
bold epoch
yeah statistics are a big +
bold epoch
I would have thought you did heaps of stats in ML no?
main thicket
Mostly done deep learning so not that much. But my standards for stats knowledge is higher than others here too
I know the basics you learn in couple 2nd year stats courses
But not the real fancy stuff
marsh wind
yeah stats are important.... funnily I never liked/enjoyed stats much and yet here am I in DS đ
well. at least never went deep into stat
vapid jay
@main thicket do you have any suggested minors? I kind of have to take one. Was considering stats.
Or like anyone here can respond ig
main thicket
I know basics of MAP and Max likelihood, Bayes, joint distributions and basic Gaussian processes and stuff. Would like some knowledge on more advanced statistics like hypothesis testing and deeper level inferential stats, or whatever the hell moments are useful for
bold epoch
stats would be a strong minor
vapid jay
Do I need calc 3 for stats?
bold epoch
but youd have to put in the work
main thicket
The electrical eng course I'm taking next sem in telecoms would give some nice intro background in Gaussian processes and ergodicity and information theory and stuff
hearty island
there's a book called practical statistics with data science by O'Reilly
bold epoch
i dont know how american education works
hearty island
I like it
main thicket
Which I look forward to
main thicket
Do I need calc 3 for stats?
Nah you're good
bold epoch
looks like probability theory @main thicket
marsh wind
I still shudder from the porbability theory and diffeq prof... those were some of worst courses I ever had
main thicket
looks like probability theory <@!193268441476497410>
Nah, it's a telecommunications course. It just starts off by a quick overview of probability, Gaussian processes and information theory
main thicket
It goes through some intro signals knowledge right after also
@vapid jay maths or stats or anything else you enjoy
As long as you learn the maths/stats by the end, doesn't really matter
Whether you do the minor or not
hearty island
what is it with these damn former FAANG people just doing courses
dude literally cloned algo expert
main thicket
what is it with these damn former FAANG people just doing courses
Fools with the idea of $ and prestige would give $$$
main thicket
As I said, that's what they do. It's a career that's been advertised
hearty island
on another server some guy was like oh yeah if you wanna learn linked lists shell out the big bucks on algo expert.io
huhhhh
marsh wind
people do anything to get other people $$$ đ
hearty island
it's brainwashing people into thinking the only way they can learn is by paying money
my mom even was like hey should I send you to a bootcamp to help you learn and I said please no
literally every youtuber is like omg I quit coding
hearty island
what I find interesting about algoexpert.io and the other DS/algos websites is that these people offer don't have any guarantees
or any statistics on how people are doing after doing problems on the website
I've seen the chick advertise algoexpert.io hundreds of times by now
main thicket
That's how you know the site is shit. If it made you a good data scientist, you'd have more statistics đ
hot fulcrum
So right now I'm working on getting into IT as there many jobs around me and I can see myself enjoying it.
My question is what will I have a better time at with starting off in after getting into IT, cloud or data analysis. I'm mainly looking at the job opportunities and less about the pay.
hearty island
Paying for those websites is just the modern version of drinking the kool aid
sudden quartz
Distributed systems is an obvious one nowadays...
Thanks and thats interesting any field can be a detective one hm
sudden quartz
That's probably the main factor. The US has dozens of self driving car companies...
Is that deep learning software ?
twin skiff
print("Good evening to you all")
shadow moss
what is it with these damn former FAANG people just doing courses
Selling Shovels in gold rush makes you money
hearty island
@shadow moss yes I know
clement actually said he makes âless moneyâ doing algo expert instead of Facebook
I think thatâs cap
shadow moss
clement actually said he makes âless moneyâ doing algo expert instead of Faceboo...
Probably less money now but probably higher potential earnings
And he may be rich enough that being his own boss is worth less earnings. After a while you are just stacking cash
hearty island
I will believe in a bootcamp or one of those websites once I see an actual guarantee
but I donât think thatâs ever gonna happen
dapper perch
WHEN YOU THINK CODING IS SO COOOL AND FUN UNTIL YOU KEEP GETTING ERRORS AND STOP FOR 5 MONTHS
sterile vault
Honestly, I like errors. Yes, some are cryptic and bad, but when you have an error, you know what's wrong
The worst feeling is when everything works. But wrong.
near ocean
This is getting a bit off topic guys
sterile vault
How do you know when you should search for better opportunities or when you should stick with what you have until you get more experience/better portfolio?
hearty island
if you ask for a raise and they go yeah maybe in the next 90 days
and then they forget
thatâs when you know itâs time to move on
it is much harder to do if you have a family tho
sterile vault
True. Being single you can kinda chill on couch eating instant noodles till you want to work again.
sterile vault
Basically, I enjoy not having to search for work for a while, but the tech (basically, working with CAD libraries) is so damn niche that I fear I'm shoving myself into unemployability.
hearty island
hey if it makes you feel better there are companies that use excel for a database instead of SQL
đ
grizzled tundra
Yeah, true
sterile vault
Maybe learning VBA is even worth it.
Allow these companies to work with these crutches a bit longer.
hearty island
now there are companies that are using no code platforms
like generated code
I think itâs bs
sterile vault
*ahem
Visual scripting
@chrome hamlet I think it's just a job security power move. What do you do with admin team? FIRE them?
hearty island
itâs about as dumb as AI replacing coders
my cousin in middle school is like wonât you not have a job by 2050 bc AI will become smart enough to code
Yeah I remember that
thereâs also Microsoft access?
I thought it was kind of lame
I literally just copied my friendâs work I didnât learn a single thing
sterile vault
AIs learning to code AIs would be the last non-automatable thing before tech singularity
So we're as safe as we could be
hearty island
whatâs tech singularity
sterile vault
I've heard about it. I haven't seen that for a while.
hearty island
one piece of tech that does everything?
sterile vault
It's when advances in technology cause the tech advance faster.
AI makes a better computer to make better AI that makes even better computer.
hearty island
hm
AI is the most attractive job for tech rn
all bc of Tesla and that movie ex machina
sterile vault
Well, seems be hard to break into without tech background
hearty island
yes
delicate bane
hey if it makes you feel better there are companies that use excel for a databas...
yes. did i tell you about that internship with a power company where they wanted to "migrate the data from their excel files onto 'python' to run 'analyses'"
đ
i died
this is one of those listings where you run far, FAR away
hearty island
@delicate bane so bitchwork
literally doing nothing other than data entry
Does it even pay?
delicate bane
yes but you cant just move things to "python"
are you going to build their data infrastructure for them as an intern? hard pass
marsh wind
plus.... you move data to DB, not to python đ
arctic geode
hi everyone , im thinking about starting to learn programming stuff from zero i was wondering if theres a good way to practice more effectively . i mean i know its so hard and im okay with that but how should Äą work on it ? should Äą also take notes on paper too for stuck in my mind etc? if u let me know about experiences which u already had at the past i would appericeate it !
(if my english is bad sorry about that ) please hit me up with tags when u answer =))
hearty island
@arctic geode best way to practice is projects
@arctic geode also what resources are you using?
arctic geode
i just have a few courses from udemy loll idk anything about it just watching random videos for now
hearty island
!resources
inner wrenBOT
hearty island
automate the boring stuff is probably the best book you can use
arctic geode
thanks a lot
graceful shuttle
hi everyone , im thinking about starting to learn programming stuff from zero i ...
Learn the fundamentals. Start with syntax and simple programs. Move on to data structures and algorithms once you understand the language
Doesn't hurt to write things down on paper. People who learn in college/university are usually writing code on paper during lessons and for tests. It's generally understood that writing things down by hand improves your memory: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/taking-notes-by-hand-could-improve-memory-wt/
ocean ledge
what is paper
graceful shuttle
Plant fibers mashed together in water, then dried and cut into sheets. Higher primates put markings on them
arctic geode
lol
ocean ledge
highest primates roll them into blunts
arctic geode
thanks a lot for responding btw @graceful shuttle
ocean ledge
you're not a real programmer unless you have a strong opinion over static typing
so make that a main milestone
graceful shuttle
Only way to get that opinion is to use both statically and dynamically typed languages
@arctic geode start with one language (like Python đ ). Learn it well before moving to other languages
hearty island
Is strong typing the same as static typing
like â3â + 5 is â35â in javascript
thatâs weakly typed
blissful viper
Try codecademy @arctic geode
graceful shuttle
Strong typing just means type matters
Statically typed means every variable has an explicit type, Java is an example
arctic geode
@blissful viper noticed thanks ! im also trying to emprove my lang to understand well english resources sometimes being hard for me but its also a chance to improve myself either ways i guess :p
ppl mostly recommends starting with phyton for coding stuff
blissful viper
I can help you with English if you have questions
blissful viper
ppl mostly recommends starting with phyton for coding stuff
Starting with python is ok but understanding basic programming fundamentals is key as well
arctic geode
atleast i gotta try if i stuck at anywhere that would be awesome , my childhood friend is software engineer he wants to take me to hes side for projects etc he counts on me somehow , im kÄąnda detail person i love going deep , i know its long way but i 'll try my best
okay i 'll ask another question but that might sound weird
graceful shuttle
atleast i gotta try if i stuck at anywhere that would be awesome , my childhood ...
A good fundamental to learn that doesn't require coding is boolean algebra. It transcends languages. Look for a free discrete math course for that. I think MIT might have one: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/
arctic geode
i wondering if u guys ever use or eat anything for focusing more when u need to work a project long time
hearty island
Read automate the boring stuff w python itâll teach you fundamentals
graceful shuttle
i wondering if u guys ever use or eat anything for focusing more when u need to ...
Coffee
hearty island
Automate the boring stuff is basically everything you need to know as a beginner
arctic geode
good thing is im not in rush i have a lot of free time
graceful shuttle
Automate's good. It can help with learning the syntax
Learn the syntax first, and then try to pick up theory like boolean algebra
Because the "fundamentals" can be expressed in any language
I guess I'm conflating fundamentals with theory
arctic geode
first i need to plan for work on this stuff , im gonna choose some timelines in my day for study like im at school u know i need order and discipline first
ocean ledge
static typing means your types are checked at compile time, dynamic is runtime
strong means you actually have assigned types that arent just Any
arctic geode
then even it comes slowly im ok with that i'lll consider myself after that all tbh i believe just need base begining then when i understand little parts maybe i can read books or look for projeects allready made by ppl
ocean ledge
for example, python is dynamic and strong
blissful viper
Automate the boring stuff is basically everything you need to know as a beginner
I have the book in case you want a copy @arctic geode
arctic geode
would u send me the name of book ?
marsh wind
its free afajk
arctic geode
i already downloaded a few books i got udemy courses and youtube lists
graceful shuttle
arctic geode
im think maybe i should do all of that courses vvideos at the same time u know
for example
same stuff yeah i know but
they 'll tell me as their perspectives
blissful viper
From my experience with videos
graceful shuttle
static typing means your types are checked at compile time, dynamic is runtime
Hehe, I was a bit relaxed in my description. Yours is the correct way to describe the difference
blissful viper
They donât always go in debt
Practice more to get the hang of it
And remember documentation is your friend
arctic geode
Practice more to get the hang of it
beside that i'll do practice too