nice
#career-advice
hearty island
broken bay
Noice
hearty island
what's your major?
broken bay
Computing Technology and Software Development
What is yours if you don't mind me asking 
hearty island
business analytics
I code bc I don't want to make 40k staring at spreadsheets every day
broken bay
Oooo
hearty island
also bc you won't even make 40k anymore from that more like 20-30k
not gonna have fun surviving on that
broken bay
Interesting
broken bay
Ye same
hearty island
and this community makes it very easy to learn
broken bay
This is my first time in here because my professor assigned this interview assignment
hearty island
interesting
zinc abyss
Thanks wanted to avoid Data science because of the statistics. You have helped
hearty island
Thanks wanted to avoid Data science because of the statistics. You have helped
don't data engineers also need to know statistics?
if you're working with data you should probably know statistics
zinc abyss
~~if you're working with data you should probably know statistics~~
Its not too heavy
hearty island
Its not too heavy
you still should know it
I have a good book you can use for it too
it's O'Reilly it's not a gigantic textbook
bronze sinew
it's O'Reilly it's not a gigantic textbook
I have its pdf
Can U suggest how is should go through it?
hearty island
hmmm
it's in R
but you can translate that into python pretty easily
I don't see why you can't go cover to cover
hearty island
it defines everything
and then shows you an implementation
this is how I like my books
hearty island
sounds good
even if it is in R you can always ask how to turn it back into Python
R is pretty commonly used
more commonly used than Octave
bronze sinew
I understand that U have pretty much knowledge about stuff but I only know python little bit
I have just started college
I only know c c++ python for now
fossil ruin
I only know c c++ python for now
only
jolly furnace
im finding that the new standards are adding more and more syntax that makes it more and more absurd
marsh wind
i think that's main complain about c++, that it's bloated with everything
hearty island
memory leakage
swift veldt
JavaScript and its package management try to whistle away
hearty island
at Hofstra that's the second language you learn
C++
most people drop
they're currently learning big O w discrete math but not even w actual code
just another example why I think Hofstra's curriculum is full of shit
jolly furnace
like c++ 17 and 20 just seem to be extra stuff
keen seal
Is it recommended to get a masters degree in some related Computer field or is a bachelor's in Computer Science good enough?
hearty island
Is it recommended to get a masters degree in some related Computer field or is a...
depends on how good your projects are and your knowledge
keen seal
So if you had little project/job experience it's recommended to go for a masters?
hearty island
it helps you get past HR who have no idea about programming
also bc you'll be competing w people who have bachelor's degrees and most of the time the one w the master's degree wins
shadow moss
So if you had little project/job experience it's recommended to go for a masters...
What country?
keen seal
United States
shadow moss
No
Caveat being if it’s elite school
Otherwise the debt load is unlikely to pay off
modern owl
Hey guys I'm a Python bootcamp instructor teaching 70 adult students from Uganda (professionals/uni-grads and beginners) are there any other Python instructors out there? I'm trying to make friends with other Python instructors to share tips and just talk to! The job is kinda intense and it would help to have someone to talk about it with who's in a similar position. Thanks guys.
shadow moss
Entry level jobs are hard to find due to COVID
vapid jay
Hello,
Are there classes that are more advantageous to take as someone pursuing a bachelors in computer science? Trying to pick my electives. Currently planning to focus on back-end development.
Also, are there any foreign languages that are especially useful in software development? I am based in the USA, and my university requires I take four language courses.
Lastly, are there any good portfolio projects you can recommend? I will be a sophomore next year (transfer) and want to be as competitive as possible for a junior scholarship.
Thanks!
hearty island
Hello,
Are there classes that are more advantageous to take as someone pursuing...
!projects
inner wrenBOT
shadow moss
Hello,
Are there classes that are more advantageous to take as someone pursuing...
for languages? Hindi maybe but generally most people you will interact with in development will have command of English. As for electives, better writing skills is always good but enjoy whatever you take.
dark lintel
hey, got a question. When is the time to follow up after a first interview with senior member at startup? He said he'd write before a week with 'yes' or 'no', basically , but should I write a "thanks" message or something before? thanks
shadow moss
hey, got a question. When is the time to follow up after a first interview with ...
It's hard to say, some people will say "Yes", others will say "No, your just annoying people"
I've had candidates email me thanking me for their interview, I don't give a thought past delete email key
sudden quartz
Hello,
Are there classes that are more advantageous to take as someone pursuing...
for general back-end dev, not really. backend isnt a cs specialization or anything
Mandarin. Then Japanese or Spanish. Unlikely you will ever use any foreign languages though so it doesnt matter much
for backend dev. Try algorithmic stuff like chess game OR a project that does anything that makes use if an API or database
dark lintel
It's hard to say, some people will say "Yes", others will say "No, your just ann...
thx
jolly charm
is it possible to make money from freelance coding when ur 12?
jolly charm
what should i do
ocean ledge
you're 12
jolly charm
...
ocean ledge
just enjoy your life
jolly charm
i dont need advice
hearty island
idk about freelancing for 12 year olds
are 12 year olds in middle school or elementary? I forgot
hearty island
interesting
hearty island
just make projects and do OSS
that is what I would do if I was 12 and wanted to code
stay active in this community if you have questions
jolly charm
ok
jolly furnace
how are u on discord when ur 12
hearty island
how are u on discord when ur 12
lied about his or her birthday most likely
jolly furnace
so u did lie about ur age
jolly furnace
ur definiately not 3097
jolly charm
definiately?
marsh wind
freelancing at that age can tricky if someone won't open you bank/paypal
- I doubt anyone would knowingly contract a 12 yo for freelance job even
marsh wind
live? or via some platform?
ionic ferry
I did some good mony off of lessons
jolly furnace
is there even a min age on fiverr
ionic ferry
(Privet zoom lessons)
jolly furnace
but i guess min age cant stop this person when they are 3097
ionic ferry
There is
jolly charm
its 13 :(
marsh wind
yeah that's one way it could work
ionic ferry
U should try too
ionic ferry
Why?
jolly charm
im too young
marsh wind
pretty much all platforms linit to 13+
ionic ferry
Btw if you want to do it I hope u know to code more then "hello world"
jolly charm
just 9 more months and i wont have to lie
marsh wind
due to some privacy and other regulations that concern 12 and younger ones
jolly charm
HEY I KNOW HOW TO DO MOR THAN THAT
ionic ferry
Ok, good
jolly charm
Y is that good
jolly furnace
i think ple though u were a troll or sth
jolly charm
im no where near good enough to teacj private lessons
i started python yesterday
i have been doing js for a while tho
ionic ferry
That's what I said lol, u should first learn how to really code then try making mony
ocean ledge
first step: learn how to spell and write
jolly charm
im not limited to just python though
i asked how to make money from coding
not just python
marsh wind
Js is literally everywhere
yeah that's why I said
jolly charm
gtg
ionic ferry
Listen, no one will hire a 13 year old (even if he codes better then a 30 year old) you should try doing privet lessons
Or coding apps with ads
near ocean
Put them on github?
hearty island
my friend got an offer from Microsoft
but they told him he’d need to be on call so he declined the offer
said it was blurring the lines between his work life balance
shadow moss
Yep, Microsoft requires that for everyone
hearty island
Jesus
shadow moss
It's to prevent Devs from fucking up Ops life
hearty island
how do you have a work life distinction then?
shadow moss
so when Devs go "Here is crap code, good luck ops" they get punished
it's rotating on call
hearty island
like what if you’re driving your kid to school and someone calls you and tells you to code
or does that not happen
shadow moss
like what if you’re driving your kid to school and someone calls you and tells y...
Should have written better code
shadow moss
Yes, and it's GLORIOUS!
shadow moss
Do all FAANG companies do that?
Many do, Devs pushing shit code to production because it's not their problem anymore is a meme because it's true
hearty island
Oracle does it and my uncle doesn’t even code for them he’s a salesman for computers
shadow moss
Oracle != Any Technology company
they are lawyer company pretending it's a tech company
marsh wind
Lmao
marsh wind
but they told him he’d need to be on call so he declined the offer
What does this means?
hearty island
@marsh wind what does what mean?
compact topaz
marsh wind
Be on call
compact topaz
near ocean
Be available for work
To take calls
I guess take calls, might be in person work tho
hearty island
canon asked my dad to be on call for the whole day and he said no
mellow turtle
Is developing code a good job? I'm only 14 so really just wondering.
hearty island
It really ruins your work life balance
@mellow turtle yeah it’s nice if you like to code
gaunt sparrow
Anybody here manage to land a dev job with NO degree?
I don't mean a degree that isn't CS, I mean nothing
fervent cobalt
job postings are crazy
shadow moss
Anybody here manage to land a dev job with NO degree?
People have before but it’s more difficult for sure with COVID
gaunt sparrow
I wouldn't mind going to school, I just really can't afford it
modest panther
I recommend not going airik
Are you looking for a job that pays well?
or a job in coding
near ocean
In this climate landing a job is hard even with a degreee
vernal lynx
So, just wondering where everyone goes to look for jobs. I'm in Australia and looking to post a bunch of python dev jobs but want to get eyeballs on them.
daring sluice
guys is it worth to learn to become penetration tester
lucid vapor
So, just wondering where everyone goes to look for jobs. I'm in Australia and lo...
There's a job board in the channel description.
vernal lynx
There's a job board in the channel description.
Oooh, thank you, it cut off and I didn't see it
lucid vapor
Np! If you're on desktop, you can always click on it to see the whole thing.
vernal lynx
Yeah, I found it after being pointed there
jolly furnace
sounds like talking advantage of students
hearty island
if the interviewer asks if you're currently employed what are you supposed to say?
bc then they could ask how much do you get paid
lucid vapor
Work on a project for someone who doesn't program, and then say that you do that.
jolly furnace
lmao ppl just outsource the work
hearty island
yes
jolly furnace
and the final product ends up being garbage
hearty island
well yes
the dev has no motivation to actually do it
and no team
it's just them
jolly furnace
i mean like the client hires someone
and that person that is hired
pays someone else to do it for substantially less
hearty island
but like what are you supposed to tell the interviewer if they ask if you are currently employed
jolly furnace
tbh ive never been asked that question
hearty island
It's popped up on online forms
jolly furnace
da faq
hearty island
It was like are you currently employed???
jolly furnace
dEfInE emPLoyMenT
main thicket
Jesus
It's not always on call. You're on a rotating schedule. And you won't be the only one dealing with a particular problem. Obviously you're expected to finish up what you're doing asap and do it.
lucid vapor
I am a new python proggrammer .
#python-discussion is probably a better channel to say hello. But welcome to the world of Python!
main thicket
So, just wondering where everyone goes to look for jobs. I'm in Australia and lo...
For Australia LinkedIn + Seek + Indeed covers everything. Something like jora brings it all together
marble spade
agile crystal
"[Company name]values and is committed to diversity & celebrating our differences in the workplace. We want to know what makes you unique, your superpower or what we should know about you that's not on your resume."
I'm trying to not overthink the above question on the application, but are they essentially asking for a cover letter or something else?
delicate bane
how get job
delicate bane
I'm trying to not overthink the above question on the application, but are they ...
yeah kinda. seems like what you would essentially put in the meat of a cover letter
"why should we hire you" type of deal
lucid vapor
I'm trying to not overthink the above question on the application, but are they ...
Just what makes you different than others, and what can you do that no one else can provide?
Or what "invaluable experience" do you have?
delicate bane
something that sets you apart. thats how this question reads to me
agile crystal
Do you guys think they want a FULL cover letter or a small one
delicate bane
maybe its a different skillset? different experiences, etc.
oh no def not
they want like what you would write
in a paragraph or two
at least thats how it seems to me
agile crystal
Ok thanks, I will re-read the job posting as well
lucid vapor
Do you guys think they want a FULL cover letter or a small one
Do you already have a cover letter that you are sending to them?
agile crystal
I mean - I got the generic one but I'm starting from a blank page for every job
It's very time consuming btw
delicate bane
blank page? completely? surely, the jobs arent that different that you need to do so. i would grab sentences and chop 'em up to fit your needs
bc thats a lot of time
agile crystal
God it is, I just need to learn how to tie in words from the job app to the smaller CL in this instance
But now I'm kinda stressed because it's like "we're commited to cElEbRaTiNg OuR dIfFeReNcEs" so do they want more informality in this section?
Probably
delicate bane
Yes, they want to know why they should hire you.
delicate bane
Maybe you studied something unique. You would talk about that here
delicate bane
this is LITERALLY your question
jolly furnace
15 min max on a cover letter
unless i really want that job so i do something unique
delicate bane
LITERALLY where you talk about your transition from humanities, and how 1) applicable your skills are to the field and 2) how unique of a perspective it gives you
delicate bane
i only brought it up bc im also coming from another field
so im glad it helped you
grizzled tundra
Whenever I've been in an interview for a developer role, I've been asked if I knew docker or Kuberentes. I don't know these techs. How long do you think it takes to be fairly decent in docker or Kuberentes?
timber tide
I'd probably spend a few hours a day messing around with containers and clusters and practice setting up stuff for a week or so.
little trellis
@grizzled tundra check out linode. Their free trial should give you time to mess with Kubernetes. I’d start with docker though. Docker has more broad of a use and will be important to understand before Kubernetes
sterile vault
When do you feel you can say you understand these tech on the resume?
I can build an image from a base one, run it, and it will work as a prototype, but not much beyond that.
summer roost
The rule of thumb is to not put anything on a resume unless you're prepared to spend time talking about it in an interview.
If your resume says you know numpy, I should be able to spend an hour asking you questions about numpy, and asking you to build things that use numpy
hearty island
Don’t put something you can’t back up
my friend put C++ on his resume and they asked him to code everything in C++
Well spoilers he didn’t know it and he failed the interview
summer roost
Sounds like everything worked out as it should.
hearty island
Basically yeah
they told him to reverse a linked list and he started doing it in python
And then the interviewer was like let’s see if you can do it in C++ since it’s on your resume
lucid vapor
If you put it down, make sure you actually know it well.
hearty island
Yep
summer roost
And then the interviewer was like let’s see if you can do it in C++ since it’s o...
The best option there is "well, I know it less well than Python, and won't be able to do it as fast, but I can do that if you want" - at least admitting you're not great at it up front might get them to decide to spend the time elsewhere
hearty island
Eh if you don’t know the data structures and algorithms in a language you claim you’re proficient in
I don’t think you’re really considered proficient them in that language
*then sorry I’m on my iPad
summer roost
Oh, definitely. I'm just saying that if you find yourself backed into the corner, that may be your best option of trying to talk them out of making you do the thing you know you'll fail at.
hearty island
Yeah that’s true
grizzled tundra
<@683429147825143881> check out linode. Their free trial should give you time to...
Thanks, mate!
grizzled tundra
The rule of thumb is to not put anything on a resume unless you're prepared to s...
What if they ask me if I know docker and I tell them that I've never used it in production and I only know the theory of how it works and I've used it locally for learning purposes?
summer roost
I think that's a fine answer. I'd maybe give some examples of things that you've used it for, too.
They don't expect you to be an expert, but saying you're an expert when you're not is a bad idea
grizzled tundra
Yeah, that's true. That's when they take you to the deep waters. I refrain from that, mostly.
jolly furnace
im actually surpised they enforced a language
cuz i recently interviewed for a c# position and they didnt care
jolly furnace
they just cared about how u approached the problem
unless ur doing those online assements
and ur thing actually has to be in the language they specify
grizzled tundra
Aah, that's a great assessment
sterile vault
I'm trying to add lots of buzzwords and then in "about myself" say about my actual familiarity
Like - I'm 100% putting "Linux" buzzword because it's what in job description and that's what HRs expect, but in another section I'm clairifying that's user level knowledge, not sysadmin level.
grizzled tundra
Yeah, same.
In the earlier days of me applying for jobs, I was putting things that I was absolutely confident about. I was wondering why my applications kept getting rejected but then I found out that this needs to be done.
coral jackal
I'm exploring the idea of a data science online course and I cant tell if its better to go for one running Python or R - any thoughts on why one would be better than the other to learn?
grizzled tundra
This has a detailed comparison of both 
and 🇷
https://www.datacamp.com/community/tutorials/r-or-python-for-data-analysis
main thicket
There's very little reason to choose R
Only really necessary in niche circumstances
grizzled tundra
Yeah, I think python would be a better option over all
primal sandal
Helllo, can anyone suggest a good video to learn the pandas module.... I've tried watching 2-3 videos on YouTube, but no video explains the concepts properly. Or maybe I'm not able to grasp the concept from the videos. Thanks!
empty minnow
Well what does pandas do?
Is it like a module for web dev?
And how do You analyse Data
mild sun
@empty minnow Pandas is a module for dataframes
near ocean
Theres tutorials on https://pandas.pydata.org/ that will explain things much better than any of us can
ocean ledge
There's very little reason to choose R
yeah, but R deals with dataframes natively way better than pandas
not to mention plotting... plotting in python sucks
ashen locust
if i currently know c# how hard will it be for me to learn python in like a month?
peak halo
Well what does pandas do?
Pandas is for manipulating tabular data. one could use it in a web service, or any other Python program you'd like.
empty minnow
@peak halo thanks
shadow moss
if i currently know c# how hard will it be for me to learn python in like a mont...
Shouldn’t be hard at all.
ashen locust
ah ok
shadow moss
Lack of static typing might trip you up
ashen locust
is code academy a good place to start
shadow moss
Sure
ashen locust
thanks
shadow moss
But why Python?
lucid vapor
is code academy a good place to start
Yes, it is.
ashen locust
But why Python?
well i wanna start getting into astrophysics and i need physics math and programing and idk if c# is the best for that
ocean ledge
ehh, the free part of it is good
peak halo
Codecademy is for if you're an absolute never-looked-at-code-before beginner
So I wouldn't even recommend it to most people
empty minnow
So what would you recommend
ashen locust
Codecademy is for if you're an absolute never-looked-at-code-before beginner
any other sites
peak halo
!resources
inner wrenBOT
shadow moss
well i wanna start getting into astrophysics and i need physics math and program...
C# will do fine. It’s likely your coworkers won’t know it
peak halo
You can pick the learning modality that suits you: books, youtube videos, etc.
ashen locust
C# will do fine. It’s likely your coworkers won’t know it
sure
empty minnow
Hmmm
peak halo
I would encourage you to try one of the resources on our website before paying for anything.
though if you're sure you want to pay for something, I've had good experiences with these courses: https://training.talkpython.fm/
ashen locust
C# will do fine. It’s likely your coworkers won’t know it
but isnt python just more effective than c#
its easier
at certian parts
and a better language overall no?
peak halo
but isnt python just more effective than c#
"better" depends on what you want to do with it. I don't really know what use cases C# is suited for though.
ashen locust
"better" depends on what you want to do with it. I don't really know what use ca...
i think mostly in general configuring satellites
shadow moss
No
hearty island
@coral jackal don’t just do data science unless you know the math behind it
It’s not a fun time
shadow moss
C# is general purpose language like Java/Kotlin or even Python. It’s just statically typed, byte code compiled unlike Python. Both approaches have their positives/negatives.
ashen locust
C# is general purpose language like Java/Kotlin or even Python. It’s just static...
ok, thanks.
and does anyone know an astrophysics discord by any chance?
marsh wind
might be a little bit no niche...
anyway, I think here C# vs python will not come down to the language itself but rather ecosystem and community
in terms of libraries that well suited for astrophysics and etc
burnt wren
Has anyone here tried TopResume? I saw a link of it in PyCoders' weekly email.
hearty island
does it cost money?
peak halo
Does anyone know of a job search website that lets you filter by security clearance-related considerations and years of experience wanted?
I have not found one that lets you take security clearances into account, but jobs that require active top secret security clearances add an insane amount of noise to any query I run.
hearty island
Does anyone know of a job search website that lets you filter by security cleara...
this seems promising
peak halo
https://www.clearancejobs.com/
this is the opposite of what I wanted
peak halo
"ClearanceJobs is the largest career network for professionals with federal government security clearance."
I do not have one.
hearty island
sorry I thought it would be like Handshake
what do you think of that?
I don't like how that website is designed it looks like something out of 2005
peak halo
@hearty island when I ask questions about my job hunt here, I'm really looking for input from people who have personal experience seeking out and hiring for these sorts of positions. I appreciate your willingness to help though.
shadow moss
Does anyone know of a job search website that lets you filter by security cleara...
Not aware of one. It’s very annoying but it’s a niche problem in grand scheme of things to job sites.
peak halo
Fair enough
shadow moss
Because some jobs are like must have clearances and others are like we can get you one.
peak halo
Right, I haven't found a clever way to only see positions that will get me one. Getting a security clearance with my first job seems to be key here.
Even querying "<job title> no security clearance" just brings up every job that requires active TS.
digital fjord
did you try -clearance
peak halo
did you try `-clearance`
does the minus mean "this word should not appear"?
shadow moss
Problem is, some jobs may be like. Must be clear able or able to get clearance
In that case, Stel should apply
digital fjord
yes
peak halo
right, I'd want to filter out "active TS". jobs that say "must be able to get clearance" are 👍🏻
digital fjord
-"active TS" would work in google I think
peak halo
alright, let's see
digital fjord
but IDK what you are using to search
peak halo
lol one listing included "- AtiveTS/SCI with polygraph"
but that's a problem with the listing, no the query
Anyway @digital fjord this has already eliminated a lot of noise. Thanks!
digital fjord
np
soft crown
Is gettitng a masters in data science and cybersecuity really worth it?
peak halo
Is gettitng a masters in data science and cybersecuity really worth it?
you're considering one masters degree program that covers both topics, or you're considering one of two programs, or you're considering two separate programs?
soft crown
both
peak halo
having one program that covers both sounds dubious to me, though I'll defer to those who make those hiring decisions.
shadow moss
Is gettitng a masters in data science and cybersecuity really worth it?
What country?
soft crown
@shadow moss America
hearty island
how do you fit both data science and cybersecurity into one degree?
they're both very deep fields
not trying to offend you
just curious
soft crown
@hearty island dual degreeing
hearty island
ohh
peak halo
<@!567030124306759710> dual degreeing
so, of the three options I listed, you were referring to the third one?
shadow moss
debt load for CyberSecurity is unlikely to pay off
soft crown
@peak halo Sorry yes, I was referring to the third one
shadow moss
This is America, University is investment that doesn't always pay off so make sure it makes total sense
I won't speak to Data Science, it seems like that's a field where Master or PhD MIGHT pay off
generally, my advice for STEM in America is don't get Master/PhD until someone else is paying for it
peak halo
As one who has never held a data science position but looks at dozens of data science jobs listings every day, the listings often say "bachelors degree and n years experience or masters degree and m years experience" for some n > m
shadow moss
but for Cyber Security, I can't see a masters being useful at all
peak halo
however you could have spent those (n - m) years in industry with a bachelors making more money
dapper mango
would getting a bachelors degree in computer science and computer engineering be worth it
near ocean
for what
dapper mango
Software engineering and robotics
hearty island
interesting
near ocean
yea why wouldnt it be worth it
hearty island
yeah I know plenty of people doing that
dapper mango
Ok cool thanks
thick pawn
Qui est français?
hearty island
Qui est français?
English only please
shadow moss
would getting a bachelors degree in computer science and computer engineering be...
In General, yes
marsh wind
are there so many jobs in US that require clearence compared to those that do not?
dark lintel
I know this is a kinda random and tough question, but do you think it's possible to earn 100k USD with +5 y experience, speak good English and u 'know your shit', if you live in 3rd world country, working as freelancer or remotely? Do you think you have better chances by creating a business?
(It's just a hypothetical situation, not myself exactly)
shadow moss
are there so many jobs in US that require clearence compared to those that do no...
No
hearty island
the ones in Stelercus's area do
shadow moss
I know this is a kinda random and tough question, but do you think it's possible...
No, generally companies in US hire remote workers because of how cheap they are compared to US workers, if you were willing to pay 100k USD as company, you would just hire directly
like my US megacorp heavily outsources (primarily to India but other places) because average Indian Developer costs 12-15K USD annually according to my boss
daring sluice
guys this question is stupid but
in cybersecurity
can i work u know alone to gain money
or i have to work in some company?
hearty island
freelancing is hard
for any genre of CS
it's not impossible but it's definitely not easy
rocky dust
like my US megacorp heavily outsources (primarily to India but other places) bec...
That's true, it's actually even lesser.
I know someone who's paid just about 600 dollars a month as a "mid level" python developer
rocky dust
Not really, it's most non startups
the startups in India especially where I am, bengaluru, pay the most
grizzled tundra
Dude wth, there is this guy from UK, CEO of a damn company and he said he'd pay me 12K a year only, that's not fair, dawg
rocky dust
Why do you think I'm applying as a remote dev 😛
hearty island
literally everyone and their mom wants to get out
hearty island
Dude wth, there is this guy from UK, CEO of a damn company and he said he'd pay ...
yikes
rocky dust
The work culture is horrible, pay is terrible, and almost zero growth possibilities
grizzled tundra
india is over populated
Too damn overpopulated. Engineers are manufactured in factories.
rocky dust
Dude wth, there is this guy from UK, CEO of a damn company and he said he'd pay ...
It's horrible
hearty island
my dad went to IIT
rocky dust
and if you don't go to IIT you're screwed
Nah, I've had fairly decent luck with a mass media degree applying for CS roles 😛
grizzled tundra
Unless you work for a company like Microsoft or some other tech giant, you basically get paid less.
grizzled tundra
True
rocky dust
In India, they just don't stop measuring you among peers. For outside India, they care about what you know and what you've done, which for majority Indians, isn't much, unless they rly didn't care about college
hearty island
much harder if you have a family tho
rocky dust
~~jump companies for the 50-60% payraise~~
xD
hearty island
can you imagine you just tell your wife or girlfriend that you have to move across the country bc there's a higher paying job
rocky dust
The only way to make a decent living anywhere, is to keep job hopping every 2 years. 30% salary hike over single digit increments xD
hearty island
my dad is just sticking in Canon
rocky dust
can you imagine you just tell your wife or girlfriend that you have to move acro...
already there
rocky dust
and then he complains about it
Typical of that generation tho
grizzled tundra
The problem with India is, too few jobs paying you good enough money to live a good life
hearty island
it's annoying if you're gonna complain do something about it
rocky dust
The problem with India is, too few jobs paying you good enough money to live a g...
No man, the problem with India, is that the country defines your hourly rate, not you
hearty island
tbf he only has 15 years of employment
rocky dust
It takes me half the amount of effort, to get a web dev project in from a white person, than it does convincing an Indian for half the money
Because here, everything needs to be done "nice and cheap"
hearty island
coding jobs get outsourced to India all the time
rocky dust
Not anymore though
hearty island
really?
rocky dust
Majority big companies I know are losing their contracts
Many startups are hiring remotely now
grizzled tundra
Well you'll find people working for way less than you wanna work for so that just creates the whole situation
rocky dust
Well you'll find people working for way less than you wanna work for so that jus...
yup. It's because opportunities aren't accessible across the spectrum
Even here, I've struggled to ensure that any company that see's my CV for product development, doesn't think of me as someone who doesn't have english as his first language lol
becuase they've gotten bad experiences of being flooded by colleges with crap CVs
fingers crossed it changes soon tho
shadow moss
That's true, it's actually even lesser.
That's what it costs on the budget, we mostly contract with big 3-4 names so of course they are taking their cut
rocky dust
That's what it costs on the budget, we mostly contract with big 3-4 names so of ...
contact sweat shops :p
shadow moss
trying to remain neutral about it because entire subject is vast with political intertwined
rocky dust
trying to remain neutral about it because entire subject is vast with political ...
WITHOUT a doubt. And while us middle class folks are the minority, I appreciate that people are even able to try and get some upward mobility
Though stakes are much higher than they've ever been
grizzled tundra
But hey let's not forget not every guy who graduates with a b tech degree is skilled enough
rocky dust
But hey let's not forget not every guy who graduates with a b tech degree is ski...
Not skilled enough to work at google
Tbh, as devs, we have an unreasonable expectation on ourselves to begin with
near ocean
you think so?
grizzled tundra
These giant Indian services firms hire them, knowing the y don't know much and then they make them work on whatever they want.
lucid vapor
Tbh, as devs, we have an unreasonable expectation on ourselves to begin with
Agreed
grizzled tundra
Well other companies have those expectations too
hearty island
good documentation? good understanding of their section of the codebase?
rocky dust
If every dev had to be incredibly skilled, super well read, VERY sharp, very fluent, a leader, a self learner, understand documentation inside out, ask smart questions, includes everyone's voices, so many OTHER things we tell ourselves................there wont be anyone who calls themselves a "dev" anymore.
neon moat
a junior dev lets say
i think thats vague and different from company to company
grizzled tundra
a junior dev lets say
The way he approaches everyday problems that working Devs face. Not the actual solution but the thought-process of how it might be solved. That's my opinion.
rocky dust
a junior dev lets say
If you understand what you're doing well enough, to
- Frankenstein your way up
- not feel intimidated to understand the code of the module's you use, if things mess up
That's enough for me ngl
neon moat
i think a junior should understand the basics and is there to be mentored and supported
in my mind a good junior listens and asks questions
grizzled tundra
Someone hire me pls
rocky dust
People say a junior should have strong fundamentals. Bruh I know people working as devs for 7 years and still have their mind blown by viral tweets showing javascript features
hearty island
Someone hire me pls
how's your applications going? what are you using?
quartz aspen
Someone hire me pls
where are you located?
grizzled tundra
how's your applications going? what are you using?
They're going good. I'm using indeed and stuff
grizzled tundra
where are you located?
No it was a joke. I'm currently employed.
grizzled tundra
Use angel.co. MUCH better luck
Thanks, mate. I'll check it out.
neon moat
People say a junior should have strong fundamentals. Bruh I know people working ...
its hard to have strong fundamentals if ur going for a first job, as before you have experience I think most people focus on the ins and outs and syntax of a language, its difficult
i think youtube tutorials can be slightly misleading
and i speak from experience
as they focus on the how not the why
rocky dust
as they focus on the how not the why
Right?
TODAY, WE'LL BE MAKING AN AI ML APP COME SEE
but bruh how about deploying this, learning to create your own models, learning how to optimise for memory, learning how to make this more accessible
neon moat
i think youtube tutorials can be extremely useful when first learning a language or understanding the basics of a framework, but knowing when you have to go out on your own is hard if you dont have a mentor or someone to guide you
hearty island
please the people who are like "TODAY, WE'LL BE MAKING AN AI ML APP COME SEE" have literally copied all their code from github
rocky dust
Even speed, right. I'm a product management guy, and I'm sick and tired of folks coming to me and saying "Python is so slow though"
hearty island
just trying to hop on the ML bandwagon so they get views
lucid vapor
Don't use yt unless you actually understand the code.
rocky dust
i think youtube tutorials can be extremely useful when first learning a language...
True, it's how I got into Python. Many, Many videos.
hearty island
please don't just copy code and be like I'll know it later
don't use code you can't reproduce on your own
rocky dust
The tech team I was consulting were crying about python being "slow and bloaty", when I inspected their code, found out they hadn't cleaned up their containers since 3 years .-.
rocky dust
please don't just copy code and be like I'll know it later
My friend told me something pretty cool,
The moment you go from for loops to itertools, if statements to try blocks, you've learnt enough
true harness
there's much more to learn than try blocks and itertools
rocky dust
there's much more to learn than try blocks and itertools
of course lol this is in the context of knowing how far you've come in develpoing apps over a year
But yeah. Us devs just beat ourselves up way too much. It's one of my favorite things about women being empowered to join tech companies. They make this space QUITE less toxic.
neon moat
dont want to get into python talk as this channel is careers but if statements and try blocks have completely different use cases
oak oriole
there's much more to learn than try blocks and itertools
that name is so pog
hearty island
My friend told me something pretty cool,
> The moment you go from for loops to ...
this is cap
there's so much more than just that
rocky dust
I know that, mate. But you don't learn "best practices" from youtube videos.
rocky dust
That's the context of the statement 😛
neon moat
python standard library is great, but knowing when to use it is a skill in itself
hearty island
youtube videos are great for demonstrations but you need to apply the knowledge on your own
grizzled tundra
youtube videos are great for demonstrations but you need to apply the knowledge ...
True
You can keep on watching the tutorial as much as you like but you gotta learn to close the tutorial and really start building small things
hearty island
like
I watched what
50 implementations of linked lists?
you won't even know it until you try writing it yourself
no resources
that's how it is in an interview
and that's why people don't make it through
grizzled tundra
True
And that's probably the best way to learn. I realized it a bit late but hey, better late than never.
And the best thing with python is the availability of so many packages.
Whatever you wanna do you have a package available
neon moat
i would defo reccomend a second language for anyone, ONLY after you have properly learned your first
only because you can start to see patterns in languages and bring concepts from other languages and use them with python
hearty island
i would defo reccomend a second language for anyone, ONLY after you have properl...
would you recommend another strictly typed language?
neon moat
100%
near ocean
Haskell
neon moat
something that you would be interested in, thats the main thing
it doesnt matter what it is
lucid vapor
TypeScript is nice, at least for me.
neon moat
C, java, Go, whatever as long as it holds ur interest
because your goal is not to be a 'C' master, its to learn new concepts
that improve your skills
hearty island
interesting
near ocean
C#/java are best wrt employability
neon moat
yep, nothing wrong with those, best not to overthink it
near ocean
Well oracle docs are garbage tbh, i'd go with c# personally
neon moat
😹
shadow moss
Kotlin is good Java drop in replacement
true harness
it's basically just better java
dapper mango
 if I were to get a bachelors degree in computer science and computer engineering in which one would be better to get a masters degree in🙃🙂
near ocean
A masters in what
dapper mango
Software engineering for computer science or robotics in Computer engineering
near ocean
Doubt it matters but who you should ask is your tutor, not strangers online
dapper mango
ok
ocean ledge
purescript ftw
shadow moss
 if I were to get a bachelors degree in computer science and computer engineer...
What Country?
dapper mango
United States
dark lintel
No, generally companies in US hire remote workers because of how cheap they are ...
I know many devs in Latin America earning around 80k working for foreign companies...
with around 5-7 years of exp.
shadow moss
I know many devs in Latin America earning around 80k working for foreign compani...
Yea, Latin America is picking up as outsourcing destination for United States because of time differences and culture is closer
dark lintel
Yeah, that's why I said provided you speak good English and 'know your shit'
not a random guy who did a 6-month bootcamp
Also, not all high-paying companies are American, some of them are from Europe, too...
Also, before 1 Eu = 1.08 USD, now 1 EU = 1.18 USD, so some european companies can afford paying almost same level salaries
faint cairn
Hey, I'm a self taught programmer. I have a strong understanding of most concepts in python. How do I get a job? Preferably freelancing
shadow moss
I know many devs in Latin America earning around 80k working for foreign compani...
I haven't heard of pay that high but I could see it happening for few, in generally, I'm painting in large broad strokes but as always, YMMV
dapper mango
 thank you sir and rabbit for all your insight it’s really helpful
shadow moss
 thank you sir and rabbit for all your insight it’s really helpful
I will say, I don't know your individual situation, I paint in broad average strokes, for example, I wouldn't recommend a masters in America for most people but if you got into Masters program at MIT or Stanford, my advice would be to take it
vapid jay
Hey, I'm a self taught programmer. I have a strong understanding of most concept...
reach out to clients...cold call...check their websites to see if they are outdated and propose a plan for them and design. big bucks in this
main thicket
well i wanna start getting into astrophysics and i need physics math and program...
Python is much better at astrophysics, nobody uses c# in astrophysics
ashen locust
Python is much better at astrophysics, nobody uses c# in astrophysics
oh thanks
marsh wind
Or Fortran 😉
indigo eagle
true harness
it's super duper fast
marsh wind
And well, astrophysics can be many things including big simulations so it's something to consider @ashen locust
marsh wind
Python is much better at astrophysics, nobody uses c# in astrophysics
I agree tho with this, no one uses c# in those communities so between python and c# it's python, no doubt
You can have python wrappers around low level code, post processing or just use it as glue between partst
C and Fortran are ruling kings of HPC
marsh wind
In fact if you are to do actual research you rarely (read never) pick your language cause you join some lab/group who has its stack
main thicket
C++ goes really far with Eigen and Eigen based scientific libraries
marsh wind
Well yeah c++
main thicket
I would say learn python and C++ and you're computationally prepared to tackle mostly everything
marsh wind
Yeah I think after c++ you can pick Fortran for research easy
If needed
But for Julia it will take decades to push those over. There are huge frameworks into which researches out thousands hours
main thicket
But for Julia it will take decades to push those over. There are *huge* framewor...
It's doing really well in that it's got fundamentals down. Between good libraries for optimisation and differential equations, and all the other good features for numerical computing, it's got some real momentum
Will not say it will take multiple decades, more like a single decade
digital fjord
What I worry about with julia is that it will end up far too complex a language for the average scientist to learn in reasonable time. But IG most scientists don't learn all of python either. R got used and it was most certainly not simple
main thicket
What I worry about with julia is that it will end up far too complex a language ...
You really really underestimate scientists given many of them are as good if not better at writing software than many software devs, and they're already using hard to learn languages like C++ as their main language
Plus Julia as a language is really simple. It's not until you need to start reaching computational limits of hardware does harder fancy stuff come in.
fossil ruin
apparently microsoft is moving towards rust
main thicket
@fossil ruin Maybe moving towards rust is a strong term but a bunch of azure codebase is in Rust and a lot of Windows people are interested in Rust
I went to their first Internal rust conference, it was good
Lots of people
vapid jay
Are technical writing courses a good elective choice for a CS major? Need to fill some non-CS electives.
hearty island
sure
near ocean
Technical writing is an elective?
vapid jay
There is 1 mandatory one
near ocean
Ok that makes sense
vapid jay
But I have to choose some non-foreign-language and non-CS classes
so like filling that gap all I can think of is technical writing
I could try and do some maths courses but that would result in me having to take less difficult cs classes I imagine
pastel quail
I could try and do some maths courses but that would result in me having to take...
why would more math result in having to take easier cs classes?
vapid jay
If you have a sufficiently stacked schedule of like dsa 2, cryptography, capstone, etc
I guess graph theory might be good
vapid jay
i am transferring in with dsa 1 done from a community college
hearty island
Oh nice
CS in college is basically self taught
even the ivies they’re all self taught
Professors aren’t there to hold your hand
so I think community colleges are good bc they save money
not that you asked or anything
vapid jay
Yeah, it doesn't seem bad.
Like I'm not too far behind the uni students because I did extra stuff out of class, I just have to get a little better at the maths.
The problem is when people in community college feel like they're prepared cuz they got A's, then go into uni, and fail out, which is common
autumn spindle
I've been told different thing when it come to taking Calculus my senior year. So will I need Calculus if my career is in programming or engineering
main thicket
I've been told different thing when it come to taking Calculus my senior year. S...
in programming no
not sure what you mean by engineering
if you mean proper engineering (mechanical, electrical, etc), yes, very useful. If you mean software engineering, no
hearty island
Unless you’re planning on doing data science you don’t really need calculus for coding
main thicket
data science isn't a career in programming anyway
main thicket
yes
summer roost
I've been told different thing when it come to taking Calculus my senior year. S...
Some colleges require it as part of their computer science degrees. Mine did. But it's not something you're likely to use in your day to day job as a programmer, for most software jobs.
autumn spindle
Some colleges require it as part of their computer science degrees. Mine did. Bu...
Thank you for the information
autumn spindle
in programming no
Thank you
bronze sinew
Can anyone suggest app for coding where libraries are available too for Android
maiden solar
if you mean proper engineering (mechanical, electrical, etc), yes, very useful. ...
until your job is game/3D engine programmer and youre gonna regret your decision that dont need calculus in programming
crystal plover
hello
my greatest fear https://twitter.com/LEBassett/status/1369349911620292610?s=19
Twitter
should you always have a plan B just in case something like this happens?
hearty island
Sometimes not all the times you can get blindsided
near ocean
HuffPo
hearty island
Fluke posted a video where 800 employees or above got fired over a zoom call
near ocean
Is it mean to tell every single one of them to learn to code?
delicate bane
> HuffPo
yes yes, but it happens more often then you think - in all sorts of companies
near ocean
I want to believe that only super liberal newwoke companies think this shit is cute
delicate bane
think its more about management
also apparently at AOL, it happened in a similar way
hearty island
Canon laid off 5 company workers in one day
delicate bane
all this tells me is that company loyalty is overrated
hearty island
oh yeah
there is no company family
nothing
the reason why companies are sad when you leave bc now they have to work to hire someone new
delicate bane
ig it depends on your job/company, but whats the average time people spend at a job before moving to a new company
delicate bane
sudden quartz
if you mean proper engineering (mechanical, electrical, etc), yes, very useful. ...
"Proper" engineering is engineering with physics restrictions
sudden quartz
until your job is game/3D engine programmer and youre gonna regret your decision...
Yep, some jobs do need calculus, others simply need other types of math
ocean ledge
Is it mean to tell every single one of them to learn to code?
this is hilarious
swift veldt
Is it mean to tell every single one of them to learn to code?
yes it is
near ocean
Good
swift veldt
🙄
hearty island
he's right
hushed sundial
What is the best place to start learing Python?
hearty island
!resources
inner wrenBOT
hearty island
automate the boring stuff is good
peak halo
If my long-term goal is to work in whatever AI space exists when I reach mid career (though I would prefer language technology), is it safe to say that positions with the title "data engineer" are comparable to "data scientist"? It appears that those two roles are similar and that "data analyst" is more of a businessy, excel-manipulation role. So far I've only looked for "data scientist" positions but there are also "data engineer" positions and even more "data analyst" positions. I'm interested in input from those with experience in AI/data science related careers in the US.
My fear is that if I lower my sights too much with my first job, it will be harder to break into the sort of space that I want to be in.
crude crown
they're different types of work.
peak halo
@crude crown which two in particular? Or all three?
crude crown
all three
Data Engineer is a specialized software development role essentially. A data analyst is typically a BI analyst role. A data scientist role is a more vague one.
currently there's a trend on splitting the responsibilities of a data scientist into two separate roles, an applied scientist or an ML Engineer.
languid knot
Hi i have a problem. In computer science we have an application like "mu editor", when I download it and turn it on instead of this application, the python console opens: ((
crude crown
At the moment, there's an higher demand for data engineers compared to data scientists
In 5 years who knows.
hearty island
How different is the stuff they need to know?
serene wing
Hey so i started coding about a week ago and I'm interested in being a software engineer when I'm older , i just finished a python course but still dont understand everything to it anyone have any courses or tips on what i should do next ?
Or what i should try program ?
inner wrenBOT
hearty island
read automate the boring stuff
it's a gold mine for python beginners
and it's completely free
marsh wind
<@195963916155748352> which two in particular? Or all three?
also, I think it depends on specific place....
like some companies just call everything data scientist
we have 1 data engineer but he's not much different from other data scientist
serene wing
read automate the boring stuff
Thanks mate :-))
inner wrenBOT
hearty island
then when you feel ready you can take the deep dive into algos/DS
serene wing
What should i try to learn to code?
hearty island
literally anything you want
serene wing
Which would be easiest ?
serene wing
Hmm i know how to make a mini calculator that only does + lol
I guess i can try work out how to make it do all sums
Thanks anyway :-))
serene wing
Whats that lol
hearty island
that might be too hard for a beginner tho
serene wing
Hmm i didnt know there are other ways to code without if an elif statements
I tried to make a snake game before but failed lol
hearty island
snake game is hard for a beginner
fossil ruin
Is it snake using pygame?
If so make sure you have installed pygame or whatever module it uses @serene wing
What is curses
peak halo
@fossil ruin @hearty island @serene wing this conversation is off topic for this channel
delicate bane
@peak halo i found value in this podcast. the hosts are both senior data scientists and discuss the field and focus on career advancement advice. nice to listen on runs/commute/etc. https://open.spotify.com/show/78Nft51TuU3X2urEKfCuys?si=T81mLFbsT_aQ_ff9x7qwzw
i think the first episode is where they go over the main 3 "flavors" of data science
peak halo
<@253696366952316929> i found value in this podcast. the hosts are both senior d...
Thanks for letting me know!
sudden quartz
Data Science is overcomplicated
ashen elk
its not. nothing is overcomplicated
ashen elk
Data Science is overcomplicated
something would always be overcomplicated if you don't like it. there is nothing as free money without hard work
sudden quartz
the concept is overcomplicated its just data analytics yes things can be overcomplicated.
Let there be a term 'overcomplicated' such that a thing that can be accurately described in much less words than it takes in a standard descrpition from a competent practicioner.
"Because no complicated thing is overcomplicated, the set of all overcomplicated things is null."
Let the thing be cooking a pack of ramen and the listed intructions be its complexity.
One can add to the instructions a consumate description of ways to open the lid of ramen. The complexity is now greater than it was, and because the task could be accomplished 99% without the added complexity, there now exists a thing that is overcomplicated.
Thus, "Because no complicated thing is overcomplicated, the set of all overcomplicated things is null." is disproven by counter example.
QED.
hearty island
TLDR
if you're trying to say you need a lot of base knowledge to understand stuff in code you're right
but if you're gonna complain about it it's not really going to do you any good either
ashen elk
@sudden quartz if it was that simple, no one would pay you much anyways
hearty island
if it was simple everyone would code
sudden quartz
Data Science is just Statistics and Data Analytics with AI involved
ashen elk
and what is AI, if I may ask?
ashen elk
no, what stuff comprises of AI?
dry sapphire
🍿
sudden quartz
AI is broad, it has data mining and it has machine learning which are algorithms
hearty island
ok good luck doing machine learning without knowing the math behind it
and ds/algos
ashen elk
Data Science is just Statistics and Data Analytics
So simple, aren't they? can be done with coursera in a week
timber tide
> Data Science is **just** Statistics and Data Analytics
So simple, aren't they?...
It's more than that, there are a lot of components of numerical analysis that are important to understand if you want to become a good data scientist who can work in many fields.
hearty island
It's more than that, there are a lot of components of numerical analysis that ar...
pretty sure he's being sarcastic
timber tide
Oh sorry, I'm a bit obtuse then!
hearty island
Oh sorry, I'm a bit obtuse then!
nah you're pretty smart
I misinterpret tone all the time online
little trellis
If my long-term goal is to work in whatever AI space exists when I reach mid car...
I’m a data engineer. How well do you know SQL?
alpine fiber
SQL's the ORM's job
little trellis
Data Engineer would be closer to Machine Learning Engineer than Data Scientist. Many of us have extensive knowledge of ML and use it regularly. We don’t do much analysis and data viz though.
alpine fiber
SQL was easy until I started having to do weird joins
You'd think they'd come out with SQL2 by now where they make it easy to use. Instead people just gave up on it entirely and go nosql.
little trellis
Yeah, SQL is pretty easy until you have millions of rows of data or have to join a bunch of tables together and perform complex cleaning and aggregations on it all.
Even nosql is getting SQL like apis these days with Azure Cosmos DB and the like.
To be fair, a lot of additional syntax and functions have been added to SQL over the years to make it a lot better and some versions of SQL are a lot better than others. Like BigQuery has a lot of stuff that is really good that MYSQL and such do not
alpine fiber
I do use the JSON extensions in my databases
little trellis
Yeah, being able to parse JSON effectively is a life saver when you really need it
Everything is JSON now really so
It's bound to wind up in there
alpine fiber
Yes when I was deciding on a database I looked at TinyDB and PickleDB. Both are actually just JSON
- MongoDB, though it's losing popularity
little trellis
PickleDB seems kinda cool if it holds all the data in memory
Similar to redis
Yeah, idk what happened to MongoDB. It seemed like everything 2 years ago was the MERN stack. Now I never hear about it.
At least on the front end
alpine fiber
well about a year or two ago MongoDB switched to their custom license which made a lot of people angry
lucid vapor
I prefer PostgreSQL personally, but that's likely because it serves my own needs better.
alpine fiber
PostrgreSQL is BestSQL
little trellis
PostgreSQL is my favorite if I don't have to build anything big
lucid vapor
Why not big things?
little trellis
Most of my personal projects use it.
If I'm going big, I would generally choose cloud native options these days
lucid vapor
Got it.
little trellis
PostgreSQL can handle quite a lot though
little trellis
Depends, what's the use case? Are you trying to do normal transaction based stuff like with PostgresQL or a lot of analytics?
Do you care about latency and do you need SQL?
lucid vapor
I don't need SQL, I just want it to be fast. And I'll be doing a lot of computations based on the data.
little trellis
So doing a lot of analytics on the data? By fast, do you mean it can run aggregations and analytics fast, or respond to simple selects, inserts, and updates fast?
lucid vapor
So doing a lot of analytics on the data? By fast, do you mean it can run aggrega...
Not really analytics. And I just need it to do the latter.
In the context of a Discord bot, I need to store channel and user ids.
little trellis
I like Google's products generally the best. Cloud Firestore is a good option for that and is nosql. Would probably be good for that use case.
lucid vapor
I'll check it out. Thanks!
little trellis
No problem! You can run PostgreSQL in the cloud with Google Cloud Platform as well if you desire.
alpine fiber
Do companies used TDD? Is that still popular?
jolly furnace
like test driven development?
alpine fiber
yes
jolly furnace
just imagine writing tests
jolly furnace
i mean some ppl are anal about 100% coverage
i personally think as long as u test the stuff that has the most value
u are okay
little trellis
Personally, I like writing tests as I write each method. I agree with @jolly furnace
A problem I see with TDD is writing functions and methods that are easier to test rather than designed for users to use
ocean ledge
testing is obsolete-- just use jupyter notebooks
little trellis
This guy lol. Coming in hot
alpine fiber
testable functions are usually easier to understand and forces you to reduce unnecessary side effects
little trellis
This is true. You should still write tests for each of your functions
jolly furnace
like when u bring in other services u end up mocking them and sometimes setting up those mocks takes significantly longer than the actual tests
and u ask yourself if you get any real value from them
little trellis
mocking is an art form
hearty island
I remember the days when I would message Hofstra alumni thinking it would actually get me an internship
Well nothing actually happened they ghosted me
topaz drift
What is Python actually used for in industry? I know it has use in data science but is that its biggest use?
sudden quartz
What is Python actually used for in industry? I know it has use in data science ...
Well yeah data management and automation in general
grizzled tundra
So guys, I had been applying for jobs at other IT companies and right now I just got off a monitored mcq round where the guy was sharing his pc.
Now, he was getting text messages on his Teams and he didn't notice the popus. One of the popups said, "I'll resign soon, sir, I can't handle this office politics."
What do you make of it?
hollow forum
I wanna be A Software Engineer
graceful shuttle
Do companies used TDD? Is that still popular?
TDD is the way
grizzled tundra
That's frightening
Yeah that's what I'm wondering. I've been feeling a bit weird about the company since I saw that Teams text
graceful shuttle
Go with the gut instinct if you can afford to look elsewhere. First impressions set the course and it can be hard to shake those weird feelings
graceful shuttle
It's not necessarily a red flag, there's not enough information to say. It's definitely a yellow flag though. Could be that particular individual just needs a different office culture
If they have a glassdoor page, check that out for sure
summer roost
It's clearly not a good sign.
Frankly, neither is letting candidates see your private chats.
Everything about that whole situation sounds unprofessional.
That office culture feels off to me... Who says that they're going to resign before actually resigning? Who does it over a text, rather than scheduling a meeting or at least sending an email? Who shares a screen that's getting confidential notifications on it with a candidate? And that's all before worrying about whether office politics are an issue.
@grizzled tundra personally, I'd call it a red flag, not yellow.
runic ice
400iq play to weed out candidates that are snooping at pm's? lol
grizzled tundra
That's true. They were unprofessional. They were supposed to interview me yesterday. I waited in the Fuse meeting lobby but didn't get queued in. Called the HR, says she'll look into it. Another guy calls after an hour, apologizes for not hosting the meeting because the manager wasn't available. Didn't bother notifying.
limber plaza
Wow, that was bad
grizzled tundra
near ocean
How do i properly answer interview questions like "tell me about a high stress situation you've dealt with"
I have no work experience and uni was a breeze, do i just make shit up?
Im listening to my gf answer that right now and i cannot imagine anything i could talk about
delicate bane
doesnt necessarily have to be work or school, tho that would be ideal
near ocean
I've made it my life goal to never stress about anything outside of school, i cant say i've been in a difficult situation in my entire life and now that's backfiring
near ocean
I realise this sounds like the worlds most first world problem
near ocean
Cause i just did my work and checked out
digital fjord
talking about a situation that could've been high stress but wasn't due to way you prevented such a thing from happening could be good
delicate bane
its all how you frame the situation/tell the story
hearty island
I like to tell the story where I did an internship for this small startup and the CEO asked me when the app releases instead of knowing it himself
so I said I organized the entire thing by myself
Which is accurate
quaint hedge
whats the protocol when hiring a dev? ive messaged 3 people so far and once i send my project file to them, they dont respond. how am i suppose to find someone reliably without running the risk of being scammed?
hearty island
@chrome hamlet there’s teacher assistants if that’s what you mean
the tutors for CS were garbage they didn’t know what they were doing
I put a semicolon after print(“Hello World”) and we spent an hour fixing it
or maybe it was something else
Either way they could not teach compared to the TAs
hearty island
@quaint hedge apply online through job sites
near ocean
For example, a prof or assistant prof has a dedicated group of 5-6 students that they do coursework with
quaint hedge
ive tried to find people to hire through job sites
hearty island
hmmmm
quaint hedge
i havent found a decent one
hearty island
what sites are you using?
quaint hedge
i tried peopleforhire and guru
hearty island
If you want to contribute to side projects try OSS
you won’t get paid for it but it’s something to put on your resume
hearty island
Oh
quaint hedge
i cant find a single decent freelance site
hearty island
oh lord no
quaint hedge
im surprised at the lack of resources on hiring people in a python discord
lucid vapor
You may want to check the things that are linked in the pins and channel descriptions.
near ocean
Why not the bigger sites? LinkedIn, indeed, totaljobs whatnot
delicate bane
For example, a prof or assistant prof has a dedicated group of 5-6 students that...
thats interesting.
quaint hedge
i didnt think anyone on linkedin would be looking for a couple of hours of work
hearty island
You’ll pay them right?
hearty island
you’d be surprised
quaint hedge
ive already dumped $600 into this
hearty island
there was some guy here who was gonna do a startup and not pay anyone
quaint hedge
the dev i was working with got swamped
quaint hedge
same
hearty island
it's bc freelancers don't really use websites
they have connections from their prior companies
quaint hedge
yeah, its kind of impossible to find a decent programmer
near ocean
Not all UK unis do that tho, some unis go the TA route
I personally prefer a dedicated tutor, it makes things more personal and keeps you checked
hearty island
what's funny is that the TAs actually taught better than the profs
grizzled tundra
I rejected that company's offer! I wasn't getting the right vibes.