career-advice

[hearty island]

business “analytics”

that doesn’t teach you any data science till junior year and even then they teach java not python

miserable stuff really

[peak halo]

I assume you considered transferring into CS and that there's some reason that that option isn't available?

[hearty island]

my parents don’t want me to

After I struggled in CS at UB they’ve completely dismissed the idea

like if I even bring up the fact that I coded they get so mad

[peak halo]

and they hold financial power over you whereby you can't disregard their input on that matter?

[hearty island]

yep

[peak halo]

I see

what is UB?

[hearty island]

University at Buffalo

[peak halo]

Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.

That is a grammatically correct sentence.
Anyway.

[hearty island]

To sum it all up: really cold w interconnected buildings and shitty profs

[peak halo]

which classes did you take that you didn't do well in?

[hearty island]

My first class I ever took w python and javascript

I didn’t know anything and I got whooped

[peak halo]

sorry to hear

[hearty island]

nah it’s not your fault it’s mine

3/4 of the kids who didn’t know how to code at the start dropped

[peak halo]

well, I did specify that I was sorry to hear specifically

[hearty island]

thanks dude

much appreciated

I’ve had people who just laughed at me about it

[peak halo]

there seems to be a lot of variation in how CS is taught

[hearty island]

yep

the TAs were actually better teachers than the profs

it was very interesting

[peak halo]

My department emphasizes theory and doesn't push people very hard with programming

there's three explicit programming courses

maybe four

[hearty island]

mine had these gigantic projects with imprecise directions

and it had students and TAs scrambling all over the place

These professors claimed that well in the real world clients don’t give specific directions

Ok? You’re supposed to be teaching us? So why not give clear directions?

I think the entire thing was bs

[marsh wind]

Sounds so

I mean. Maybe in grad school it makes sense

But not 1st year

[marsh wind]

Sounds more like PhD 😂

[hearty island]

@marsh wind yeah it was bs

[long radish]

Sort of a professional pickle. What do you do when you have accepted a job offer, and the day before you are supposed to start, you get a substantially better job offer. After like 2 weeks of onboarding and paperwork.

[crude crown]

It would be a bit of a dick move to jump onto the other one. You could attempt that but I would make sure if it wouldn't bite me in the ass later on.

(i.e. if both jobs are in the same industry/sector and word goes around, I would be wary)

[long radish]

That's exactly my thoughts on it.

I think I just needed to type it out to cement it. It feels unprofessional to take the other job.

[crude crown]

I know people who where in a situation kind of similar to that

where they joined a job and then two months later hopped on to another one because it was quite a bit of an upgrade

between these two... I guess the earlier you switch around the better

at least you wouldn't have been onboarded and ramped up at the new company for nothing and you would just cut loose before more damage could be done

Personally, if it was a real significant upgrade... I would risk it.

if not, I would stick to the accepted engagement for a while.

[long radish]

Ugh lol. The risks of burning a bridge.

[crude crown]

also, the smaller the company you're burning bridges with... the less riskier it is

maybe something to take into account

in this situation I was talking about... the person in question changed a job from one of the biggest tech companies in my country to a small one

[marsh wind]

was about to say that.

although the smaller the company you consider to ditch the higher the cost for them 🙂

[crude crown]

in his situation, he went from a team lead to a head of X.

that's true as well indeed, the more likely to really piss off someone and to have them screw you in unknown ways down the line.

[long radish]

All good things to think about.

[marsh wind]

I think if salary wise it's 30% or more difference I probably would risk it

[crude crown]

but if you're thinking moving to another country soon enough or just picking up remote gigs in the future, it would be a non-issue IMO

[marsh wind]

if it's 10-30% difference then I'd really weight it before jumping

cause 30% is, well, something that can make a difference.

[crude crown]

it depends on the absolute figure but assuming EU levels, jumping for a 10% increase would be quite petty IMO

[marsh wind]

yeah exactly

altough I don't think you can can get here +10% in 1 year at same company but who knows

[crude crown]

it depends on how low your absolute salary is 😄

[fierce apex]

https://twitter.com/arrington/status/1311520168200163328?s=21

Michael Arrington (@arrington)

A friend of a friend at Google interviewed at Facebook right as the virus hit. Accepted new job in March. Didn’t quit old job. Apparently does both jobs at home in 55 hours/week. Neither company knows yet. Might have reversed the co’s, not sure. I have so many thoughts on this.

Retweets

1270

Likes

15602

Twitter · Oct 1, 2020, 4:15 AM

[crude crown]

I recently had a 13% raise

[fierce apex]

😂

[crude crown]

but in absolute numbers... meh

[crude crown]

Real ballsy move but I totally believe on that 55 hours/week. The difference is that those 55 hours would need to be quite productive all the time.

[hearty island]

55 hours per week????

[crude crown]

well, allegedly in the US it wouldn't be an out of ordinary amount of hours but then again, in the US everyone loves to brag (i.e. inflate) about how many hours per week they work... while actually really working about 1/2 or a 1/3 of them.

(speaking as an yuropoor)

[ashen elk]

is that technically allowed?

[crude crown]

I'm pretty sure it isn't

[ashen elk]

I heard there were some technical complications just when you become CEO of 2 companies and get hounded by the SEC every day

being an employee is even more

[fierce apex]

I'm certain that would violate Google / Facebook's employment agreements - but thought it was a (humorous) solution to the "just got a better job offer" dilemma

[crude crown]

Japan... has the absurd scenario of long UNPRODUCTIVE work hours.

[ashen elk]

JAPAN:-

https://tenor.com/view/listen-here-you-little-shit-bird-meme-bird-listen-here-you-little-shit-gif-19221308

[crude crown]

LOL

but it is true

it's a really dumb dumb situation.

indeed

it's long unproductive work hours and they aren't innovative at all

they still use Fax in the >current year.

maybe I'm being a bit unfair but I think this is the situation in 90% of white collar jobs over there.

[ashen elk]

what's fax?

[crude crown]

thanks for making me feel old.

[ashen elk]

is it like the printer sort of thing?

[crude crown]

it's a communication device where you're scan documents and send them elsewhere

[ashen elk]

so basically scanner that scans and sends it over internet?

I struggle to see why anyone would use that, even if they don't want to invest in anything

I mean cam-scanner is a much better alternative to that

[crude crown]

old habits die hard

and Japan takes that to the extreme.

[ashen elk]

sad

[crude crown]

yeah...

it's crazy

[ashen elk]

I don't like this work ethic, but I do appreciate what the culture has produced

[crude crown]

in the 80s Japan was seen (rightfully) has the most high tech country in the world and where the future was happening there

[sudden quartz]

BIG DATA

[ashen elk]

what happened? some economic crisis? I am woefully ignorant of general world history 😦

[sudden quartz]

I want to program in Japan

[crude crown]

yeah, stagflation happened there in the 90s

[sudden quartz]

BIG DATA SCIENTIST anyone wants to be one?

[crude crown]

stagflation which still carries on these days.

[ashen elk]

This is weird. on one side, I saw an office tour where they have places for employees to nap which was touted as increasing productivity - and on the other hand, this....

[ashen elk]

why?

[sudden quartz]

im interested

[ashen elk]

in what?

[sudden quartz]

BIG DATA SCIENTISTS

[ashen elk]

no, I meant what is the motive behind knowing that?

[sudden quartz]

Teach and learn fir Data scientist want to bes

[ashen elk]

I rarely correlate economic growth with overall development. it is a factor yes, but not the only one

like India enjoys relatively better economic growth, but Id lump it with the 3rd world countries

[sudden quartz]

small problem

[ashen elk]

its a big problem for japan, but for many other countries as well

In US, there was a conspiracy that the HIPAA records might be used to train models to identify which people would be terminal and should be provided the least care (or directly; which ones should die)

I guess that's the most efficient way to do that; no other method seems viable enough

but its just a conspiracy

[vapid jay]

Someone bless me code to copy and paste I need to order a pizza

[hearty island]

Huh?

I think this is the wrong channel for that

[steel night]

Hey @vapid jay

[vapid jay]

@steel night When filling out the papers, you must be above the age of 18, else, your parents will have to do it on your Behalf.

[steel night]

Oh

But I think I can start a small startup now

Can I?

[vapid jay]

@steel night I recommend starting a company when you are a bit younger, so by the time you have a good knowledge of the market, you would be in University.

It depends on when you start, but it depends how you learn/study.

[steel night]

Okay

Well thanks for this discussion

[vapid jay]

@steel night After you have registered the company, I recommend to pay a few websites to make a wikipedia about you, or make articles about you so you could get a knowledge panel.

[steel night]

Oh means promotion or something like that right ..

[vapid jay]

@steel night Yes, Google's algorithm is based off relevance phrases, most of the time.

Which, could help the business to expand the amount of customers.

[steel night]

So I need to use Google SEO for that maybe...

[vapid jay]

Do you want me to show you how I got featured?

This is what my friend sent me a few days ago, when he searched up "Who is the CEO of Equant?".

You may not see it anymore, I changed the bio.

I have to go to sleep now, I have a lecture tomorrow, you can add me as a friend, and I can accept in the morning.

[steel night]

sorry for disconnecting

@vapid jay

[steel night]

okay have a proper sleep

[keen mantle]

Hi

Anyone who can guide me? Noob here

Would be amazing if someone with a good experience can help

[steel night]

for what do you need help ?? @keen mantle

[keen mantle]

@steel night just starting out with python and I want to be good but idk what and how to do. I'm taking Jose portilla's course which I haven't finished yet

[steel night]

@keen mantle don't worry buddy just keep on learning the basics and then just practice and make new projects or complete coding challenges daily. When you get good at coding stuff in pure python then jump into some of the frameworks and choose your stream like a web developer or a machine learner and also try to help other people this will also help you to make a good coder

[keen mantle]

@steel night thanks it helped

[steel night]

you're welcome dude

[light dirge]

Hi everybody, I am looking for someone who writes production code in any data science field that would enjoy having an apprentice or a newB that would ask questions about data science and programming, I ultimately am going to start a programming career using python in any manner, and eventually specialize in machine learning
I am currently struggling to assure my learning path isn't full going to be wasteful and need direction on how i should learn to understand what is considered clean code and why things are done in certain manners and how to implement the structure in my head into code

[ashen elk]

you can ask any questions you have in #data-science-and-ml

[hearty island]

@vapid jay this is amazing! Congrats!

[sudden quartz]

Game dev or data sciencd

[hearty island]

what?

[sudden quartz]

asking for thoughts on career fields

need MS for Data Science

Data Analytics sucks

is game dev paid well

[ashen elk]

doing anything in general just for the lure of money never ends good for anyone

not to mention the crunch

@sudden quartz if you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

[sudden quartz]

why? 22

[hearty island]

Please don’t just do stuff bc it’s paid well

that is not a good motivation

[ashen elk]

and what's your major?

[hearty island]

what awesome ruler said

no

it’s not

[ashen elk]

never

[hearty island]

no

[sudden quartz]

Well I am not motivated by money, I am just asking

[ashen elk]

you would end up in depression 99 times out of 100

[sudden quartz]

Computer Science
minor math

[ashen elk]

if you follow just for the $$

[hearty island]

Whatever

[ashen elk]

I never said passion.

I said money

[hearty island]

if all you do is chase money you’ll never enjoy what you do

dude I’m Indian

Do you know how many people I’ve seen who just become doctors and then quit?

I’m sure awesome ruler can confirm

[ashen elk]

I recommend you read up about some personalities to get a feel about what real-life actually is

[ashen elk]

so many lol. India is full of em

[sudden quartz]

What did you catch interest in on me Awesome ruler?

[hearty island]

oh please

what bullshit

[ashen elk]

yeah, Im a billionaire writing this in my maserati

this is useless

[hearty island]

Let’s change the topic

[ashen elk]

you cant convince that guy

[sudden quartz]

he probably works in data science

[hearty island]

what should I learn after DS/algos?

I actually haven’t learnt error handling and try

[sudden quartz]

advance algos analysis

[ashen elk]

circumstances are always there; success comes to those who actaully try to be more than their circumstances

[true harness]

you should probably learn error handling before dsa, it's much moer important

[ashen elk]

god, am I the only one who knows english? I didn't mean that literally

[sudden quartz]

If someone says they are a billionaire they probably are

[true harness]

well in that case, i'm a billionaire

[hearty island]

@sudden quartz yeah MIT has a course for this

[sudden quartz]

Oh you go to MIT? But all good CS departments have algo analysis

[hearty island]

@sudden quartz no I don’t go to MIT I’m talking about MIT opencourseware

[ashen elk]

agree, but money is a bad motivator. you would end up in jail or really disappointed in life. why do you think politicians have scandals almost every week?

[hearty island]

@ashen elk stop arguing w him

He’s a waste of your time

[ashen elk]

just a couple days ago, sarkozy was charged for corruption 🤷

[hearty island]

You’re not changing his opinion

[sudden quartz]

Politicians are bad, stem majors are good

[ashen elk]

yeah, seems like that

[true harness]

uh, why do you guys think money is not a valid reason...you know money is used for...everything, right.

[ashen elk]

man, please shut up

[hearty island]

@chrome hamlet how about you scroll up and read? I’ve seen so many people just fail bc money is their motivation

Ooh I wanna work for shiny FAANG companies

oh no I have to learn DS/algos for them

[sudden quartz]

You are both right. I have seen many fail with their passion as well

[hearty island]

oops I guess CS is not for me then

[ashen elk]

no, they just succeed later in life

[hearty island]

@chrome hamlet it’s an example genius

[true harness]

uh, isn't that exactly what you're doing.

[ashen elk]

nobel prize winners are really old. are you gonna say they are failures?

[hearty island]

@true harness nope

[ashen elk]

just cuz they didn't win the prize in their 20s?

[true harness]

then there's really no reason for you to learn dsa. it's much more useful to actually learn python instead of dsa

[sudden quartz]

Nobel winnerd almost always are pretty successful early on

[ashen elk]

like?

[hearty island]

@chrome hamlet ok? They ask those questions at interviews? So?

@true harness why do I care about some random high schooler’s opinion?

[true harness]

ok.

[sudden quartz]

Any scientist ever? You need amazing grades to even be in a top school or phD program

[ashen elk]

omg

[sudden quartz]

passion is for the priveledge

[ashen elk]

I am not saying anything anymore, but I recommend you read up in what fields nobel prize has been given this year and from what colleges the professors were + their age

best case is einstein - he couldn't even get a job after college for so long

[sudden quartz]

lol

[peak halo]

Hello

[true harness]

the nobel prize can only be given to living people, as such there is more pressure to give older scientists the prize, since they have less time to get the prize

[ashen elk]

people are not like that you see in movies

real life is different

[hearty island]

Enough

[peak halo]

What is everyone arguing about?

can we not?

[hearty island]

Something something money should not be a motivation for a career@peak halo

[ashen elk]

rumours, not necessarily. it depends on what work they have done and the significance of their contribution

[true harness]

of course, but you cannot discount my point

[ashen elk]

nice name stelercus

because most people who fall for the money trap are currently in jail

with no bail

[mild pilot]

Money is a perfectly valid factor to take into account when trying to decide on a job, I think part of the problem here is that you're trying to argue that you can either go for money or passion, when really it's a balance

[ashen elk]

nah, we never mentioned passion

[hearty island]

We’re saying it’s both

both is fine

[sudden quartz]

"Einstein excelled at math and physics from a young age, reaching a mathematical level years ahead of his peers. The 12-year-old Einstein taught himself algebra and Euclidean geometry over a single summer.[24] Einstein also independently discovered his own original proof of the Pythagorean theorem at age 12."

[ashen elk]

Im trying to avoid the passion issue because I would get sludged a lot here

[ashen elk]

yeah, and got no job?

[hearty island]

@chrome hamlet money “solely” is never a valid reason. Try reading sometime.

[sudden quartz]

Einstein was priveledged too

[leaden jasper]

[citation needed]
I don't think it's helpful right now to throw out unsupported claims in a discussion that's really just a difference of opinions.

[ashen elk]

sarkozy

[sudden quartz]

He could obviously get a job

[true harness]

1 person, "most"

[ashen elk]

he didn't - for quite some time

has anyone here read his autobio to confirm this?

[sudden quartz]

Proof he was rejected? Or did he just not find one? Plenty if top MIT graduates could get a low quality job

[ashen elk]

please, google first, type later

[lunar gale]

!code

[inner wren]

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

[ashen elk]

he didn't even have any offical affiliations with mit

only friendly ones with professors

[sudden quartz]

Im saying he chose to not get a job, not rejected

[ashen elk]

his father had to write a letter for him to get a job, but even then he didn't get

[sudden quartz]

Many people fail on their passions and a lot of them arent Einsten

[prime stag]

why are you bringing up einstein in what seems like an argument over a broad issue of money in a job, there are tons of other examples that are probably more applicable

[ashen elk]

he wanted the post of assistant professor

[leaden jasper]

I'd like to move this discussion into the more productive realm. @ashen elk what is your overall point you're trying to make? I think the thread of this conversation got a bit lost

[sudden quartz]

He is saying passionate people always succeed and money chasers never do

[peak halo]

Even if they do hold that opinion, do you really need to change it?

Can we move on to some other topic?

[sudden quartz]

Dont say that, nobody is trying to change another opinion, more like him trying to prove

this is career discussion btw, good topic imho

A lot of people do cs for money

[ashen elk]

See, I am replying to a lot of people, but thanx to kutiekat, I will just outline my opinion here.
See, redmagic says that successful people are often very successful in life and he thought that einstein must be working with some top graduates at a reputed firm like MIT. this was not the case as I have established before - he was unemployed for quite some time until he got one at the patent firm at the behest of his friend.

Next up, was the money issue. simply put, pip uninstall pain just stated that working for money alone (that is, he leaves out passion saying its a privilege) and beleives there is no problem in just being money-minded.

Now, believes this is fully my opinion, but seeing the people I said above that being money-minded is possibly the easiest way to lead an unhappy life.
redmagic says people do CS only for the money, but that's partially true-- some do, many don't.

I am not saying that you should have passion for anything you do (because I am outnumbered here) but I would say that being focused on money is something that is very evident when you talk to someone and that may trump your skills. companies are a team and they want employees who are motivated (because complex projects are long) and personality matters more than you think - subconsciously. in reality, someone doesn't analyze personality but rather it creates some impression.

</rant></opinion>

again, since the examples I pick may be biased, so this all is not set in stone, just my opinion and some facts that support it

[leaden jasper]

Well, I think it's important to have a passion in life and to enjoy your job to some degree, but working with money as your main motivator is finem

[sudden quartz]

But with Einstein, the different between using him and a normal person is that Einstein was ALREADYZ successful having contributed to the field at the age of twelve....

[leaden jasper]

But I think your statement does help clear up some miscommunications

[ashen elk]

I didn't say this on the basis of "Idts" rather it was based on accounts of people I have read about and their opinions which I agree on

[leaden jasper]

I don't think we necessarily need to focus in on Einstein at this point

[ashen elk]

cool. lets just close this whole discussion

[sudden quartz]

I said many people do cs for money... not all...

or most really

[ashen elk]

see, the whole point of this discussion was to convince 2 people, but like @hearty island said, this is useless as those 2 are not compromising. so lets just close this.

Adios

[sudden quartz]

He accuse me of being uncomprimising or being stubborn but not true at all. I pointed out major issue in the example he was using to prove his statement and he ignored. But I am the one who is disagreeable?

Anyway, did anyone get an internship before graduating

your uni offers that?

[ocean ledge]

this is the dumbest conversation i've seen on this discord yet

of course its important to have passion

a passion for money

[sudden quartz]

lmfaoo

[vapid jay]

Hi

Any advise on moving from Sysadm to python developer? Been using python for a bit personally but recruiters tend to just focus on my Linux skills

[sudden quartz]

Leaving linux off the resumé and filling it with your python stuff is an idea, but I have no job yet

[heavy gale]

Hi everyone. I have just started studying django after a few months of python. What is the skills needed for a junior django developer? I mean what kind of tasks he should be able to complete?

[vapid jay]

hello I just thought to start learning PYTHON..... i really dont know anything about python... so how should i start?

[toxic locust]

https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide

[vapid jay]

okey

[toxic locust]

If you have more specific questions once you've gone through that this is a great place to ask them

[vapid jay]

do you have any video?

tutorial?

cause i am going through w3school

[toxic locust]

on the front page of that link there are links to a huge number of tutorials

I would start with the ones that look like fun

[vapid jay]

okey

[hearty island]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[hearty island]

I would read automate the boring stuff

[vapid jay]

wdym?

[hearty island]

it's a book

automate the boring stuff w Python

[vapid jay]

mean?

[hearty island]

exactly what it says? you can use python to do almost anything

[vapid jay]

ohh okey

[hearty island]

yep

[vapid jay]

i dont know anything

do you have any particular tutorial?

@hearty island

[hearty island]

I would read that book

it will start you from the ground up

and then ask a lot of questions

that is what this server is for

[vapid jay]

okey

which book?

[hearty island]

automate the boring stuff w python

[vapid jay]

okey

how to do it now?

[hearty island]

go to read

automate the boring stuff should be there

[vapid jay]

okey

yeh

there is

okey

but i cant buy

okey i dont need to buy

thanks @hearty island

[hearty island]

yeah any time

[hearty island]

wrong channel

please stop posting this

k

[icy stump]

Hi guys; the Udemy course on that book's content appeared to me as FREE today (I've just enrolled for it here)

Not sure if I can share the link, but it is in the "read" resources page

[vapid jay]

hi

[hearty island]

automate the boring stuff?

[icy stump]

yes

the page auto-loaded the coupun MAR2021FREE

[hearty island]

nice

[icy stump]

👍

[sterile briar]

.

[hearty island]

?

[vapid jay]

What is the job title of someone who reviews an applicant? For example, many people had applied for a job for my company, but I want someone to review their applicant and see if the applicant fits in.

[fleet marten]

depends on the size of the company

[vapid jay]

It's a startup.

[fleet marten]

Depends on the size of the company, not the age

[vapid jay]

I'm currently the only one in the company.

[fleet marten]

if there's currently 4 employees, the owner is gonna make hiring decisions

So that's your job

Nevermind

I see better

lol

You can probably outsource that work, find a recruiter / headhunter

they screen applicants all day

otherwise someone with experience in HR

hire them as a consultant

I thought you were lookng to reach out to someone at a company

somehow I missed that you were the one looking to offload the work

[vapid jay]

No, I just want someone to review an applicant.

As well as telling me if the applicant fits in.

[hearty island]

An interviewer

[vapid jay]

Ok.

[fleet marten]

As well as telling me if the applicant fits in. that's the hard part, because they don't know who you are

[vapid jay]

@hearty island Thank you.

@fleet marten Whenever someone applies to the company, they have a resume attached to them, I can share the application embed to a link, and send the interviewer the link.

However, the interviewer will have to sign an agreement, as they shall not share information about the applicant to others, outside of the company.

[fleet marten]

https://www.hatchit.io/what-recruitment-process-outsourcing-rpo-really-is-and-why-its-the-best-kept-secret-for-startups/ This sounds like what you're looking for

As a startup you really want the best candidates

How many employees do you have

[vapid jay]

It's just me currently, but I have too many applicants applying.

[fleet marten]

I think you need to find the person you want, not the other way around

[vapid jay]

I can't email and review all of them.

@fleet marten Do you think this is a good description for the job to hire the recruiters?

[hearty island]

You’re gonna pay them right?

I would include that tooo

[vapid jay]

@hearty island For now, it's a volunteer job. On linked-in, you have a choice to select volunteer.

They are probably going to start getting paid when Equant launches and makes revenue.

But even then, it's going to be percentage of the cut, not a fixed payment.

[neon moat]

so basically you want someone with a degree but you cant afford or dont want to pay them?

nice

[vapid jay]

@neon moat They will potentially get paid when Equant starts making revenue.

[neon moat]

so they are working for free

thanks for confirming

[vapid jay]

🤦‍♂️

@neon moat I have a system where their work efforts gets measured in points, and with points, you can unlock certain certifications that you can add to your linked-in profile, or in your resume.

[neon moat]

so working for free

[vapid jay]

🤦‍♂️

Imagine going to college and then getting tasked to work for free

You do know college costs money, right?

Should I remove that requirement?

You should try getting money to pay a dev

Nobody will work consistently for free

[neon moat]

no, you should pay someone for their work instead

[vapid jay]

^ exactly

[neon moat]

or at least give them equity as the absolute minimum

[vapid jay]

Not just the potential

[neon moat]

^

[vapid jay]

But an actual contract (like a job)

It's a volunteer job.

[jolly furnace]

i think with a start up u somewhat have to start by taking a loss

and then u break even later on

[vapid jay]

Companies take money to start

Paying a dev would be where some of that money goes.

[neon moat]

if ur so confident why aren't you offering equity in the company for the position?

just another greedy person

completely detached from reality

[vapid jay]

Yup.

[neon moat]

if i had no money but i had an idea, i would at least offer another dev a percentage of the company and be honest with them, not trick them with linked in points

LOL

[vapid jay]

There isn't a source of revenue from Equant yet.

Oh my gosh

[neon moat]

then offer them shares

[vapid jay]

If they want to apply, they will.

[vapid jay]

The company won’t even get there

Now you're just being discouraging.

[neon moat]

you can issue private shares

discouraging? you are taking advantage of desperate people

[vapid jay]

Shares worth 0$ are still shares worth 0$

If there’s not an income source where do you expect value will come from

Thin air?

@neon moat That's a good idea, even if there is no revenue yet, you're still giving a percentage out.

[neon moat]

linkedin points

[jolly furnace]

i think u may be running ur company wrong or sth but i dont know cuz i dont know anything about business

the thing i know is that my room mate ran a business and when it just started he paied ppl from his own pocket

before he actually started making money

i just think ppl should be paid for work they do

[neon moat]

yes, thats called employment

haha

[vapid jay]

@neon moat Stop trying to humiliate.

[neon moat]

humiliate?

i wish you all the best, but asking people to work for free isnt right

[digital fjord]

that is a very risky thing to do. The more common and safe thing is to get funding from investors and use that to pay until you get profitable. Or fail and investors lose all the money

[marsh wind]

search for funding parnters

[jolly furnace]

oh he ran a clothing one

[digital fjord]

there are also bussiness loans from banks afaik

[jolly furnace]

well the thing is that ppl were paid

although there wasnt exactly many ppl working

[vapid jay]

I wouldn't get a loan as it's starting out.

You would have to pay them back.

[jolly furnace]

well i think thats the whole point

that is the risk that needs to be taken when starting a business

[vapid jay]

Even when Equant get's on the market, I need to pay writers to make articles, as well as a wikipedia.

[digital fjord]

ye, the goal is to be more profitable than the loan interest

[vapid jay]

I'll probably get a loan, when the revenue is double or triple the loan amount.

[jolly furnace]

?

[vapid jay]

Or I may not even need a loan from the bank.

[jolly furnace]

when ur making more htan the loan u dont need the loan

[digital fjord]

you need a capital to start a bussiness

[jolly furnace]

the loan is just to get u started

as a jump start

[digital fjord]

that is where the name capitalism comes from

[vapid jay]

So a trademark?

[digital fjord]

if you don't have rich parents who will fund it for you, you need to get a loan or investors

can't have a bussiness without starting funds going into it

and ideally those funds aren't yours

[vapid jay]

So even if I tell someone "You invest $5,000, I will give you 20% of the revenue each month for up to a year." Even if there is no revenue yet, I wouldn't have to pay?

[digital fjord]

it is generally more like "if you invest 5k, you get 20% of the company until I make enough to buy it back from you"

[neon moat]

you dont know what revenue even means, you cant 'give' revenue to someone...

you have no clue what ur talking about

[digital fjord]

yeah, you give raw profits, not revenue.

[neon moat]

^

[vapid jay]

😂🤣

@vapid jay What's funny?

This conversation

[neon moat]

are you against offering people shares or a percentage in the startup?

[vapid jay]

@neon moat No, I just don't want to promise them anything that may not happen.

Even if it happens, I don't want to take the risk, until I am sure.

[neon moat]

but offering shares is better than offering a promise of payment in the future

[jolly furnace]

okay like there is always a risk with business

[marsh wind]

starting a business is already a risk

[neon moat]

you can offer both

[jolly furnace]

and when decide to do business u have to accept the risk

[vapid jay]

He’s not risking anything though

He made no investment

And he wants to “”””hire”””” a dev

I didn't say developer.

I said I'm hiring a recruiter.

Oh lol

That’s like worse

To review the someone who applies to the company.

Recruiters do a shit ton of work

Like, a lot

[digital fjord]

well, why would a recruiter choose your compeny over any other?

[jolly furnace]

um if u wont want to pay ppl u might have to do that work yourself

[vapid jay]

@digital fjord Many people who applied to my company, they also applied to others.

@jolly furnace They will apply if they wanted to.

[jolly furnace]

applying doesnt mean they are gonna work

also i dont know if they know that the position is volunteer

[neon moat]

just beware of your obligations as an employer

[digital fjord]

so you already got applicants who are aware it is an unpaid position

also yeah, you can't have unpaid employees

[vapid jay]

@digital fjord I have over 200 application on different jobs in total.

[neon moat]

pretty sure it needs to be explicit its a volunteer position

[digital fjord]

fascinating

[vapid jay]

It's volunteer.

[digital fjord]

people will really apply to anything on linkedin

[marsh wind]

all are unpaid?

[jolly furnace]

um the pic u sent didnt say

[marsh wind]

so true 🙂

[neon moat]

hes following in jeff bezos footsteps

[marsh wind]

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2432847835/?refId=HpIqEOpZz0noTixJWVceuA%3D%3D&trackingId=ComIxV8uUuw2hDidBdfwjQ%3D%3D

[marsh wind]

it's say here "Volunteer"

[vapid jay]

Linked-in gives an option to make it volunteer.

[hearty island]

idk if this is just me but I don’t do unpaid work in general but that may be diff for other people

[vapid jay]

I'm sure if someone applies, they would want to do it for the short run, not the long run.

Because it's volunteer, but that's still okay with me.

[neon moat]

i might set up a company and call myself CEO, anyone else want to be CEO with me?

[marsh wind]

I can't be a CTO

😂

or CSO

works for me

[hearty island]

I can’t do anything if I don’t learn linked lists

F

[neon moat]

what about C3PO @marsh wind

[vapid jay]

@neon moat You're just trying to humiliate me on purpose.

I'll just ask someone else. Thanks for nothing.

[jolly furnace]

i think ur getting that response bc what ur doing isnt exactly the norm

[neon moat]

you want people to work for free, dont come at me with that

[hearty island]

yeah no one likes to work for free

[marsh wind]

then we are all doomed (c)

[neon moat]

tbh I'm sick of seeing people take advantage of people in poorer situations

there are lots of desperate people out there

just because people are desperate doesnt mean they dont deserved to be paid

[marsh wind]

so CSO/CTO 🙂

[neon moat]

if you cant afford to set up a business then guess what, you have to wait

not promise desperate and inexperienced people the promise of payment later down the line

[hearty island]

or give them shares that mean nothing

[neon moat]

jeff bezos would disagree with me, but f*** that guy

[hearty island]

there’s this tv show halt and catch fire and the characters started a gaming company

and they were like we’re running out of money but it’s ok here’s some shares

[marsh wind]

correct me if I am wrong, but usually people who has no funds whatsover if they have idea would create first some kind of proof of concept and try to sell it

[quartz aspen]

if I could NOT use Amazon, I would. work conditions for non-technical people are awful there :/

[neon moat]

^

[hearty island]

and some guy was like but these shares mean nothing if the company doesn’t become valuable

[neon moat]

i used to work for amazon as a delivery driver...

[hearty island]

I worked as a cashier for BJs

got paid $15 bucks per hour and took a lot of shit from customers

[quartz aspen]

it would normally be like that, yes
but people hear/read/watch a lot of stuff about strartups and go "oh, I have this idea, I need developers but can't pay them, but we will sell the company for millions in a few months!"

[hearty island]

Customer service positions are hard dude

[dark lintel]

who the f*ck works for $0?

[hearty island]

well I think that’s just taking advantage of people

[dark lintel]

I'd rather be working picking up dog shit for $7 than dev for $0

[hearty island]

Paying them nothing and then making them literally build your company for you

what’s even worse is paying a company to do an internship for them

[jolly furnace]

well i know some places make unpaid internships illegal

[hearty island]

that may become the normal in the future

Canada actually made unpaid internships illegal

[quartz aspen]

Amazon warehouses are the worst, from what I heard. but delivery services are second worst with time vs packages that need to be delivered

[neon moat]

i worked for amazon almost a year, no joke it was 14hour days, i hated it

[quartz aspen]

student internship vs general internship. students have to do internships to complete their uni degree, and some degrees are so strange that the internships have to be special and companies would lose money on them, so they enter a contract with a uni to make those positions. e.g. my friend studying Swedish philology had problems finding something
maths students may try accounting for internships
for IT stuff, job/normal internship is enough to cover it

[jolly furnace]

oh there is government subsidies for internships here

so start ups are paid by government to hire students

[quartz aspen]

student internship == praktyki in Polish (literally practice, practical stuff)
internship == staż
not every staż is praktyki here

[jolly furnace]

im curious how long equant will exist for

[ocean ledge]

this is gold, lmao thanks for the laughs bruh

lemme know when your company takes off

or you know, dies

[near ocean]

is there a point to all this bashing? if the guy advertises the position as a volunteer thing then whats the problem

[ocean ledge]

because its exploitative and normalizes a terrible industry practice

do not work for free

[near ocean]

its exploitative to enter into a volunteer position... voluntarily?

is he forcing anyone?

[ocean ledge]

"if you don't like your job, why don't you just quit?"

[near ocean]

? what

if people dont wanna work for free then they shouldnt apply to this

there is such a thing as volunteer work you know

[marsh wind]

did they pay hourly rates? or fixed?

[ocean ledge]

i have never heard of an hourly tech worker

[marsh wind]

that is not tech he said about but amazon delivery

tech idk, probably most are on fixed rate? here there is pretty much 0 to none paid overtimes

[neon moat]

all the delivery drivers got a fixed fee per day, no matter if your route was 8 or 12 hours

[neon moat]

not gunna keep going on about it, any reasonable person can see that desperate people could easily be exploited

[near ocean]

desperate how lmao and how is a volunteer position gonna affect anyone thats desperate

[neon moat]

because they are working for free...

[near ocean]

are they so desperate that in their desperation they dont realise the job doesnt pay?

if youre desperate youre obviously not gonna go work there lmao are you joking

[neon moat]

what? thats the complete reason they would work there...because they are desperate

[near ocean]

IT DOESNT PAY

[neon moat]

working for free on the hope there is pay at the end of it

[near ocean]

why would you work there if youre desperate

[neon moat]

cant u work that out yourself?

[near ocean]

imo youre kinda dumb if you apply there, not desperate

[neon moat]

so thats fine to take advantage of dumb people then in your eyes?

[near ocean]

should we take down any volunteer opportunity then?

[neon moat]

i never said that,did u even read his original job description?

[near ocean]

i did, and the guy said he marked it as a volunteer job

why is everyone bashing him is what i dont understand

[neon moat]

if ur happy with people working for free then thats fine, thats your opinion

but its exploitation

[near ocean]

bro if people dont want to work for free then they shouldnt apply to volunteer positions

thats the whole point of being a volunteer

[jolly furnace]

idk but i feel those volunteer positions are aimed for the non profits

[neon moat]

you can stick a label on it and call it 'volunteering' but its free labor lmao!

[near ocean]

it doesnt matter, he's not forcing anyone to work for free

[neon moat]

exactly

its ok to disagree, but 'volunteering' for a company, not a charity, is free labor, lets call it what it is

[near ocean]

then they shouldnt apply

[neon moat]

i agree, but my point was that it might encourage desperate people that cant get a job elsewhere

[main thicket]

1. yes, no company should be making a profit off the work of free labour from students who are just trying to get a job
2. free internships make the market impossible for poorer students who can't afford to do free work for 3 months

[near ocean]

theres no way anyone sane would look at a volunteer opportunity and say yes, no matter how desperate

[main thicket]

Free internships which lead to useful work for companies are actually illegal in most countries, including the US

[neon moat]

only someone who has never been desperate would say this

[main thicket]

Did I mention illegal

[jolly furnace]

it seems that posting may have some legal issues

[near ocean]

think what you may, the conversation that's been had here about this is not in line with the guidelines imho

[neon moat]

i think its a healthy discussion

but anyway, if u want to jump to guidelines then fine /shrug

[main thicket]

"it's not literally slavery, so it doesn't matter"

[neon moat]

i think most people would agree here that free labor is not acceptable

[hearty island]

It ain’t

and Human Resources/interviewing people is pretty hard ngl

Idk maybe he can get some desperate high schoolers to do it but not someone w a degree

[near ocean]

ofc he's not gonna get anyone with any qualifications to work for free

whats the problem with posting it tho

[main thicket]

It's absolutely possible to get people desperate for experience to work for free

[vapid jay]

Are you guys still fighting about this?

[main thicket]

It's I L L E G A L

[vapid jay]

Drop it.

[near ocean]

apparently not

[near ocean]

do you see a lot of desperate people jumping at greenpeace and wwf?

[neon moat]

not gunna try and persuade you, but if you think you're gunna get anywhere by treating people like that in life ur mistaken

thats all im gunna say

[vapid jay]

You're acting like you've started 10 companies within a decade.

Shutup.

[neon moat]

ive started 2, and sold 2, but thanks for ur 2cents

[main thicket]

Are you comparing a charity with a for profit company?

[jolly furnace]

the thing is that greenpeace doesnt make money

or at least that is not their aim

[vapid jay]

@neon moat The fact that you continued this conversation for up to a hour, says a lot of about you.

[main thicket]

Because legally volunteering is only legal for religious, charity and public policy organisations

[vapid jay]

Do you know your law?

[main thicket]

Under the FLSA, a volunteer will not be considered an employee if the individual volunteers for public service, religious or humanitarian objectives, and without contemplation or receipt of compensation.

[vapid jay]

Ok, then they aren't employees, they are volunteers.

Your point is?

[neon moat]

you're just an exploiter, why are u even here

[main thicket]

Volunteering is only legal if it's for public service, religious or humanitarian reasons. HR is not any of those, hence its illegal

For example, the DOL has opined that there is no employment relationship between a for-profit hospice and individuals who volunteer their services to perform activities of a charitable nature, such as running errands, sitting with patients so that a family may have a break, and going to funerals. However, individuals may not donate their services to hospices to do activities such as general office or administrative work that are not charitable in nature.

[vapid jay]

@neon moat The fact that you had the interest to keep this conversation for more than a hour, shows how bad you are. I would NEVER take advice from you.

@main thicket Can you send the link where you are getting that.

[main thicket]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardtuschman/2012/08/24/using-volunteers-and-interns-is-it-legal/

[neon moat]

shows how bad I am, are you still a teenager?

[vapid jay]

@main thicket I don't want source from a non-government website, I want a article wrote by the government.

[ocean ledge]

"Equant is an American multinational technology company..." wait i thought you were the only guy

[vapid jay]

Is it affecting you? No.

[ocean ledge]

do you live a foot in mexico as well

cross dat border

[vapid jay]

I'm in Houston.

[main thicket]

Under the FLSA, employees may not volunteer services to for-profit private sector employers
https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/docs/volunteers.asp

[ocean ledge]

anyway, you literally haven't told us what your company does

[vapid jay]

@ocean ledge I'm not required to.

[ocean ledge]

come on, i'm at the software engineer application, gotta know what i'm applying to

[vapid jay]

@ocean ledge There's not even a software engineer application open.

[main thicket]

Dragged on too long now, @icy berry could you get rid of his guy who's been defending his illegal unpaid job opening for an hour?

[vapid jay]

I dropped the discussion an hour ago, and you guys continued it.

You're just assuming things now, you don't know my trademark details, my agency, none of that.

[ocean ledge]

you literally have a websitr

[hearty island]

Idk dude what is an unpaid internship? I consider that volunteering too

[ocean ledge]

equantcareers.business.site

i love the testimonials

[main thicket]

It's not an unpaid internship, it's a full job. Also unpaid internships are still illegal if it does any useful work

[vapid jay]

It's a volunteer job.

[hearty island]

Uhh

Web developer job

Chief financial officer job

Software developer?

[ocean ledge]

is your cfo job also volunteer?

[hearty island]

idk dude sounds beneficial to the company

[vapid jay]

That was before I had linkedin.

[hearty island]

don’t quote me on that though

[main thicket]

Oh so, are you a legally registered not for profit in humanitarian, public policy or religious reasons?

[vapid jay]

@main thicket None of your business. I don't have to discuss anything with you if I don't want to.

I won't give it to un-educated 13 year olds.

[main thicket]

Its illegal and I'm doing my master's lmao

[vapid jay]

University? Public Student ID?

[jolly furnace]

i think what ppl are saying here is that you should be paying ppl

[vapid jay]

No.

[main thicket]

This man posts illegal job postings and then questions me on my work status lmfao

[vapid jay]

How is it illegal.

[near ocean]

this is a shitshow and getting offtopic for the channel

[vapid jay]

If it's illegal, go report it. Let's see who goes to court.

[near ocean]

<@&267629731250176001>

[digital fjord]

alright, this conversation has been going in circles for the past several dozen minutes, so lets just stop

!silence

[inner wren]

✅ silenced current channel for 10 minute(s).

[digital fjord]

!unsilence

[inner wren]

✅ unsilenced current channel.

[vapid jay]

Thank you moderator.

[quartz aspen]

oh, I didn't know US had this regulations. I thought a lot of states are "right to work" states and don't have employee protections. good to know there are still some on federal level!

I knew most of Europe or at least EU had those laws

and in the EU, even if you are a volunteer, if you do on-site work you have to have insurance etc

[main thicket]

The US does tend to lack on worker rights but stuff as basic as free labour is hard to mess up. Making money off people? Pay them a minimum amount.

[quartz aspen]

I remember as a child I thought US is some great thing. Mostly because of tv, lol. But if I wanted to move now, I would avoid US at all costs. Canada seems way better when it comes to worker protection...

[hearty island]

https://youtu.be/pb0J8AOMXsk

idk I found this interesting

[vapid jay]

wow just scrolled through that whole thing

that was hella entertaining

thanks guys

[hearty island]

that website?

[vapid jay]

No this conversation

but i took a look at the website

[hearty island]

yeah the website is interesting

particularly where it just starts listing roles

[quartz aspen]

omg, I didn't see the website. I saw just the middle of conversation, then another part...

[ashen elk]

god this is too big. can anyone provide a recap? apparently, Ahmed is trying to hire people without paying money?

@covert karma BTW, if you don't mind me asking, what exactly does your startup do?

[quartz aspen]

last time someone asked, they said it's none of asker's business

even with people saying "but how do I apply if I don't know what it does", Ahmed refused to say what the company does

[ashen elk]

what, is he trying to set up some scam call center

[quartz aspen]

the website is not helpful either. I was wondering if I can sub-contract them to do something (I'm legally a business)

[near ocean]

mods are dealing with it, can we move to a more helpful discussion topic?

[ashen elk]

hey, Im just interested in that guy (and his MNC/startup)

[quartz aspen]

[I'd use "they" instead of "he". we don't know their pronouns and somewhere on the webpage it seems they are actually referred to as "they" ^^]

[ashen elk]

oh, alright.

whats their website anyway?

[quartz aspen]

it's linked above

[quartz aspen]

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/equant-ahmed-qureshi/ "Ahmed Qureshi was born in Pakistan, then a year later, they moved to Texas." - this uses "they" pronoun

[ashen elk]

wow, what "Artificial inteliigence" do they use in the browser? 😁

[quartz aspen]

hm... but being legally a business, I'm registered as VAT payer(?) for EU. I wonder how to deal with contracts involving a company outside of the EU 🤔

[ashen elk]

oh, vat is a nightmare with all the brexit stuff

[quartz aspen]

thankfully I'm outside UK and my contractor company (which I just shorten to employer, but formally we're on equal terms) is also outside UK

[ashen elk]

oh wait - they want to compete, with Google? In AI? seriously? WTH has happened to this world

[ashen elk]

If you dont mind me asking, where exactly?

[quartz aspen]

Poland. and Poland. lol

[ashen elk]

scandinavian - noice

[quartz aspen]

my best friend got a bachelor's in Swedish philology and works (remotely) with Swedes ^^

[ashen elk]

ahh, is your company also in tech?

[quartz aspen]

yeah

[ashen elk]

and where is their company getting ze $$$ from, or is it personally funded? because I doubt any sane-minded investor would invest in equant

[marsh wind]

No $$$

That's whole point

[quartz aspen]

my single-person business (aka me) is registered for some general IT-related stuff. but I'm mainly doing programming and some consulting
and my contractor company (as I said, I just call it employer) deals with mainly IT security (networks) consulting

[ashen elk]

what is he trying to run the whole business from his laptop?

[ashen elk]

ah, nice.

[quartz aspen]

no monies. they said they don't want to take a loan. and list their thing as "volunteer" positions, even though some people already pointed out it's against US law

[ashen elk]

I don't think high schoolers can write a browser to be honest

much less deploy it on a server

(unless they are expecting that they would get actual professionals working under them)

[quartz aspen]

i don't know, there are also claims somewhere to be one of the youngest CEOs or sth

oh, it's in the linkedin article I posted

[ashen elk]

wow, “I Focus more on my customers, than my competitors” — Ahmed Qureshi.

anyone tried to convince them to have an actual good strategy (and maybe some working prototype of the product)?

[marsh wind]

Yes kinda

Forget them really. Let's move on

[ashen elk]

as well as one of the youngest people to start a company
in their house, I presume?

I find it absurd to see a person with a bad business idea, no hope of competetion and trying to get employees illegaly actaully thinking of operating a legitimate business

[hearty island]

I don’t get why my dad routinely complains about how canon is gonna die but he won’t even bother to learn a coding language now

when I try to help him he just says you don’t know shit stick to doing your work

[ocean ledge]

anyway, thanks to everyone here for giving me the best laugh i had all week

this was absolute gold

[hearty island]

agreed

[broken saddle]

very nice:)

[ocean ledge]

how old is he? probably isn't worth it to learn a new one

[hearty island]

50

there are people who code at 65

they just decide to learn coding

[ocean ledge]

ageism in the industry is a real thing, but it's less about age than old people think

it's moreso that old people mostly just decide to not progress

[hearty island]

it just hurts to see it

my dad came from IIT which is extremely prestigious in India

[ocean ledge]

we have a bunch of engineers at my company that's 50+

they fucking suck

[hearty island]

and he's just wasting his time at a company that's gonna die and soon

camcorder companies died

eventually cameras will too

people just take pictures w their phones anyways

[ocean ledge]

well, kinda

canon doesn't really cater to the average consumer anymore

[hearty island]

what is Canon gonna do when Apple's phone camera has better quality?

it's gonna happen someday

[ocean ledge]

not really

[hearty island]

there's another competitor Nikon but they're not doing as well as Canon

it's also a Japanese company TIL

[ocean ledge]

its hard to beat really good optics with just software

[hearty island]

unless they start getting really good optics too

[true harness]

they don't fit

[hearty island]

yeah I was about to say

but Canon is not the juggernaut it used to be

that's what I'm trying to say

[ocean ledge]

does he have japanese hours?

[hearty island]

no

[ocean ledge]

like, 60 hour work weeks

[hearty island]

nope it's just 9 to 5

[ocean ledge]

so he's just living the dream

[hearty island]

sure doesn't act like it

[hearty island]

@waxen field wrong channel for a go fund me

[alpine tartan]

!warn 691412961507541132 As per our rules this server is not a place to advertise

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @waxen field.

[lost wyvern]

cant you learn cyber security through programming and scripting?

like learn how to hack and stuff

or how could i learn “ethical hacking”

i would like to become an ethical hacker

it seems very fun

[main thicket]

@lost wyvern you can't really learn it through programming, you need to work on it specifically

There's a lot of skills that go into that

[lost wyvern]

yeah obviously

would you recommend just lots and lots of experience with “codeacademy.org”?

bc they teach u ALOT of stuff there

[main thicket]

Codecademy is generally a terrible website, it's like Duolingo for programming but less useful

[lost wyvern]

isn’t it still coding tho?

what do u recommend i don’t have a PC yet

[main thicket]

Get a PC first. Go through something like How to think like a computer scientist: learning with python 3

[lost wyvern]

python 3?

wait do i go to a certain website i’m confused

are u taking ab codeacademy.org

python 3 computer scientist

[delicate bane]

i read an article about the recovering job market leaving boomers behind on linkedin and thought exactly this. the author of the blog was def biased.

like

do people not really realize how quickly skills can degrade in an industry

its not sustainable to expect the same skills to stay relevant for 15+ years

[sudden quartz]

make a keyboard out of paper and write

on paper your code and algorithms

you can code on your phone btw

[hearty island]

@delicate bane my dad knew a bunch of languages that were relevant for the time he was applying

well spoiler they’re not relevant now

also he signed a NDA when he joined the company so he can’t even put the technologies he used for canon on his resume

[main thicket]

An NDA generally doesn't stop that

[delicate bane]

[main thicket]

Doubly so if it's not defence or something

[delicate bane]

always gotta keep learning

tbh thats my greatest fear

is becoming complacent

then suddenly one day all my skills are irrelevant

[main thicket]

Should really get him to double check what he is and isn't allowed to put on his resume. It's very unlikely Canon of all places stops him from putting the languages he knows on his resume

[hearty island]

idk the terms of the NDA

also I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know how they work entirely without just looking at google

[delicate bane]

whats the new python in 20 years

[main thicket]

Terms of NDAs generally cover stuff of commercial value, not any and all details of work you do, unless it's defence and it's literally that secretive

[delicate bane]

who knows

[hearty island]

the next python??

I guess we have to wait and watch

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

it won’t happen overnight tho

maybe by 2050 python will be obsolete?

[delicate bane]

yeah just dont get tunnel visioned

and be aware of the market ig

[hearty island]

always keep updating your resume

[delicate bane]

such a pain tho

esp when youre NOT looking

how often are you supposed to do it again

[hearty island]

Basically every time you want a raise

[delicate bane]

thats like every year

[hearty island]

and you know your employer won’t really give you one

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

that’s how I would sum up what Fluke says

or you can do it the boomer way

And ask the boss but they’ll just go oh yeah it’s coming in the next 90 days

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

job hopping works if you’re single and you don’t have a family to worry about

[delicate bane]

me

[hearty island]

if my dad randomly said he got a job in Utah that pays more money I don’t think I’d be very excited

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

what I’m trying to say is that every time you move your family has to adjust

[delicate bane]

so the lesson is to make the big bucks before settling down

[hearty island]

yes

my mom told me at my dad’s age this is where you start settling down

he’s 50

[delicate bane]

do you think employers discriminate based on whether you have a family or not

like for jobs where you have to relocate

[hearty island]

They discriminate on everything

[delicate bane]

💀

[hearty island]

They don’t think some 60 year old in New York w grandchildren is just gonna move to Minnesota to work for them

[delicate bane]

hide your wedding ring in your interviews

[hearty island]

don’t wear one

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

don’t even mention your kids

[delicate bane]

but cant you see the tan lines

[hearty island]

or your wife

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

Literally the second you mention you have a family that’s when they’re like

Hmmmmm this person will definitely ask for raises frequently

[delicate bane]

"oh we have found a more qualified candidate for this position"

🇫

[hearty island]

My dad actually refuses to post us on his Facebook too bc he thinks HR stalks social media pages

[delicate bane]

they probably do

i know for a fact that the HR recruiter person tried to stalk my linkedin

bc linkedin told me

the one for the interview i told you about

[hearty island]

inb4 they also ask you a ds/algos question

[delicate bane]

linkedin literally rats people out

[hearty island]

I would not be surprised if that job just asks you one anyways

LinkedIn is full of shit

[delicate bane]

i mean for that one, i got past the technical part

but that was just talking about my projects

bc they know im a noob/come from a non-technical background

[hearty island]

Technical interview isn’t the coding part?

[delicate bane]

well maybe ig idk for sure yet

[delicate bane]

wdym

i see it as work facebook

and i deactivated my fb account so...

[hearty island]

Those garbage motivational posts

[delicate bane]

oh those

[hearty island]

also the only reason why people are even active on LinkedIn is bc they want jobs

[delicate bane]

yeah tru

[hearty island]

but now it’s just devolving into general social media

[delicate bane]

i forgot why linkedin became so popular

in the first place

i remember when it was barely anything

[hearty island]

I’m fine w people being happy about their internship acceptance

what I don’t like is this employee appreciation bullshit

just give them money over some piece of paper please

[delicate bane]

i dont use linkedin enough to see the stuff you see

[main thicket]

There's no reason your LinkedIn has to be full of the crap. Any social media is what you make of it

[hearty island]

I saw like 5 posts of it just yesterdya

[main thicket]

My LinkedIn is mostly people posting cool company news and people posting scientific papers

[delicate bane]

true. thats why i like my twitter

[hearty island]

well

first things first would be removing the connections I don’t care about

[delicate bane]

if you do that, does it notify the person?

or can you do it secretly

[hearty island]

Yes

Noo

[delicate bane]

welp gl

ig

[hearty island]

Why does my iPad autocorrect noooo to yes

[main thicket]

You can unfollow them without unconnecting

[hearty island]

yes I know that

it’s just a lot of people

[delicate bane]

what does that mean

[hearty island]

What are you referring to?

My iPad autocorrecting?

[delicate bane]

like they wont show up on your news feed but youre still "friends"?

[main thicket]

Nah, I just went through my LinkedIn feed and unfollowed like 15 of the people who liked the BS posts and that reduced my LinkedIn spam by like 90%

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

LinkedIn is used for lots of “networking” but good luck being responded to by a recruiter when they have thousands of people messaging them per day

[delicate bane]

the messages i get seem very sus

like written by a bot sus

[main thicket]

It's generally the other way around, recruiters hit you up not the other way around

[hearty island]

they’re like pyramid schemes the ones I get

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

I never sent that tik tok Facebook recruiter my resume

Bc I think she’s full of shit

also bc she’s looking for full time people not interns

but she posts some sus stuff too??

[main thicket]

I've gotten relevant recruiters from like Boeing and a high tech manufacturing company for my interests (robotics), and then some good recruiters for stuff I'm not interested in (Citadel quant stuff etc) and then I've got completely off the mark ones like one guy asking me to teach him flutter (I've never used flutter, or Android or anything)

[hearty island]

@delicate bane you remember that vid of that girl talking about Goldman Sachs?

I keep getting emails from them on handshake about “coffee chats”

[delicate bane]

pReStIgE

i can never get that image out of my head

"you have the engineering team"

"then you have the strats team"

"and THEN you have sales/investment banking"

[hearty island]

Dude I had some business kid argue w me about how business is much better than coding

and he’s like yeah I’m gonna become an investment banker and then I’ll make 6 figures

[delicate bane]

gl

tough without connections

[hearty island]

like do they even know how hard it is to actually become one?

it helps if you’re a frat boy

if you’re going for that

[burnt wren]

Does anyone know a resource where you can have someone review your resume?