#career-advice | Python | Page 391

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:26 PM

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I'm just curious because I'm not sure how it's like with other schools

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:26 PM

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my school offers a certificate not a degree

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so id have to switch

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:27 PM

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So you're second-semester sophomore?

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:27 PM

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yup

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:27 PM

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hrm...

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 10:27 PM

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plush socket so id have to switch

Didn't you finish a BS?

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:28 PM

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no not yet

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or maybe idk what ur asking

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:28 PM

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For what it's worth I went to one of the top cs universities (top 10 cs) so my opinion is probably heavily biased

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:28 PM

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anythings helpful

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college is confusing as it is

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:28 PM

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But if you went to my school and tried to pivot into the CS program as a second semester sophomore

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get ready for a really, really rough time

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:29 PM

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whys that

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the workload?

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:29 PM

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The core classes for a cs major are pretty damn brutal

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Yeah

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:29 PM

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hmm

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:29 PM

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Algo is painful, systems design is extremely painful (as both a 2 semester sequence or one semester sequence), you need to take discrete math for cs which is pretty nasty

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:29 PM

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well the thing is id rather go through hell for 4-6 years than live the rest of my life doing something i dont want to do

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:30 PM

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We had a math requirement which was college linear algebra in the math department or linalg and multivariable in the engineering

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:31 PM

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plus im in sillicon valley

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:31 PM

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again, I'm not sure how much I can speak to your experience since this was also one of the top programs in the US, but second semester sophomore year i had a mental breakdown and a near physical one too

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:31 PM

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its like mandatory

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:31 PM

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Ah. Are you in UCal by any chance?

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:31 PM

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if i want to live here at least and not move to like montana

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no

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im at community currently

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:31 PM

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Ah. So it may be easier to pivot then

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:32 PM

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yea

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i got severe adhd so anything i learns gonna be trouble but if I enjoy it it makes it easier

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:32 PM

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If you are moving to CS, I would maybe plan for a 5th year in college just in case, but I'm speaking as a guy who went to a 4 year institution for CS in a notoriously brutal cs program

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:32 PM

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I think if you enjoy programming, you're going to enjoy your programming courses.

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

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It's just CS isn't just programming

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

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Despite rigor, but if you really liked Python, maybe you could consider double majoring @plush socket .

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

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the thing is nutrition isnt what I was hoping it would be

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

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You can also maybe look into information science

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

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so ive lost interest pretty much completley

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

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You're working towards an IGETC right to transfer to a UC?

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

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if that's a degree or pathway your school offers

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It shares a lot of stuff with CS, without some of the more brutal classes.

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:34 PM

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yea

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:34 PM

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I know a lot of guys at my school dropped CS for infosci

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:34 PM

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You should talk to your community college advisor if you have the chance and see what it would take to do CS, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to switch your focus if that's your interest. 🙂

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:34 PM

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math isnt my strong suit

hearty island Mar 1, 2021, 10:34 PM

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i know people who dropped it for MIS

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:35 PM

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What math courses have you taken @plush socket ?

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:35 PM

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rn taking elementary stats never taken calc

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:35 PM

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I used to think I wasn't good at math, and now I'm majoring in it.

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:35 PM

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lmao lucky you

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:36 PM

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I still don't think I'm very good, but I am enjoying the major.

hearty island Mar 1, 2021, 10:36 PM

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ooh if you wanna learn calc

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look at 3 blue 1 brown's videos

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:36 PM

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Yea honesty wouldnt be a problem if I didnt have to apply it in a job because then I cant bs my way through it

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:37 PM

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Don't let math scare you from being happy with your major.

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 10:37 PM

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plush socket or maybe idk what ur asking

Wrong person

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:37 PM

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@plush galleon makes sense

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 10:37 PM

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Why didn't you choose a classical BS?

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:38 PM

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wym

hearty island Mar 1, 2021, 10:39 PM

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what's mainm

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manim

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:39 PM

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timber tide Don't let math scare you from being happy with your major.

Yep. I had bad enough test anxiety to projectile vomit over a game theory midterm once. Somehow walked out of that class with an A

hearty island Mar 1, 2021, 10:39 PM

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visual math stuff?

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ohhh

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ok very cool

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that's cool

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:40 PM

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At any rate, I was looking over the requirements at my school for a infosci degree and a cs degree, and in my personal opinion the infosci degree is infinitely easier to get than a cs degree

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at least you dodge most of the infamous weeder classes, but you still get a lot of the same skills out of it

timber tide Mar 1, 2021, 10:41 PM

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You can always switch majors if you find your current major challenging, but if CS truly interests you, then you should give it a shot if you're able.

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:41 PM

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Basically, infosci will prepare you for applications-based programming and how to use programming and languages, and CS will teach you the theory of computing and how everything is built

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 10:41 PM

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@glacial cloak which college did you choose ?

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:42 PM

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I'm still waiting for all my graduate admissions to come in

hearty island Mar 1, 2021, 10:42 PM

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high school/college

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:42 PM

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Unless you're talking about my undergrad

hearty island Mar 1, 2021, 10:42 PM

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yeah

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 10:43 PM

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glacial cloak Unless you're talking about my undergrad

I'm talking about your undergrad because you wrote that it was hard

vital aspen Mar 1, 2021, 10:43 PM

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some people even work at earlier stages in their life , but ofc the not the same money u get at older ages

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:45 PM

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@plush galleon given that I still have outstanding applications right now I'd rather not say so I can speak candidly about the experience

hearty island Mar 1, 2021, 10:45 PM

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i mean you don't need a job in coding instantly you can do something else

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:46 PM

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But let's say it's an ivy / ivy equivalent with a strong cs program

vital aspen Mar 1, 2021, 10:46 PM

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u can do smth related to it @vapid jay

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:46 PM

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What jobs does infosci apply to?

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:46 PM

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from what i've heard, from a undergraduate major, mostly the same as cs

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:47 PM

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hmm

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:47 PM

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the main difference is if you want to pursue research, in which case I think infosci sets you up for a different research path than pure cs

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Because you'll study different things

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 10:48 PM

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@glacial cloak superstition (for the undergrad college)?

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:49 PM

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I'd just rather not be identified at this moment.

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Sort of. For that and other programs

plush socket Mar 1, 2021, 10:49 PM

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what if i want to make programs

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thatd be compsci?

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:49 PM

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Including my personal golden whale school

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@plush socket That could be both.

vital aspen Mar 1, 2021, 10:50 PM

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such as working in workplace where you can code through simple things like starting from scratch or smth, or even some companies just want you to design ( without coding ) a website , through their own programs .. i don't know that much of info , but my uncle works in a IT company where there are some workers who they just do things far from coding but still in the IT industry @vapid jay

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 10:50 PM

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I wonder how I could get in a first class college for a master's degree

vital aspen Mar 1, 2021, 10:50 PM

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yup

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 10:50 PM

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I don't think I could get a loan since here parents have to back you

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 10:52 PM

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^ blast if i know about that too.

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I think it depends on the program. It's going to be nigh-impossible for most people to get into like Princeton or Yale since their masters programs are like 6-8 people per class

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And they're looking for very specific things, like written papers, extensive undergrad research and teaching experience

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You might have a better shot with cs/infosci programs with relatively large class sizes, like upenn, ucal or umich

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I know one of my classmates in a grad-level class I took was actually a lawyer before he decided to get his masters, so he didn't have much formal cs experience or the research/academic dressings that something like Princeton might be looking for, but due to his business experience he got in

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(we had a relatively large program, relatively speaking)

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 11:02 PM

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Could you explain the difference between M.Sc. and M.S.?

near ocean Mar 1, 2021, 11:02 PM

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There is none

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:03 PM

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Heck one of my questions is aside from the masters thesis, what is the difference between a m.eng and a m.s?

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 11:04 PM

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Here you have to write a master's thesis for every master's degree no matter what your field of study is

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:04 PM

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It depends on the school I guess

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I've heard differently on a lot of schools

near ocean Mar 1, 2021, 11:05 PM

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MEng and MSc are different qualifications

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:05 PM

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near ocean MEng and MSc are different qualifications

In terms of marketable skills, what differences do they signify?

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 11:06 PM

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I was only writing about the thesis

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:06 PM

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Would it be mostly the same if I'm able to get published or publish a masters thesis in the course of getting a M.Eng?

plush galleon Mar 1, 2021, 11:06 PM

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Here in M.Eng. you are more likely to write in electronics-related field

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:06 PM

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And teaching experience?

near ocean Mar 1, 2021, 11:06 PM

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MEng is an engineeriyngn related degree

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They give you the right to work as a qualified engineer and make you a member of IEEE

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Yourw basically a chartered engineer

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:08 PM

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A M.Eng in computer science?

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So for employment, is there a huge difference?

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Or if I'm able to provide most of the same stuff as a M.S. might have (a masters thesis and research), should I be able to get a research position after graduating?

ocean ledge Mar 1, 2021, 11:12 PM

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define research position

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:13 PM

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working on algorithm development for machine learning/ai

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researching new methods / applications for recommender systems, possible CF

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and uplift

ocean ledge Mar 1, 2021, 11:14 PM

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maybe-- thats less the degree and more your aptitude

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in many places, having a masters is just the bare to get an entry level job

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but i mean, if you're good enough you can find a research position with just a bachelors

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:16 PM

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for that purpose though, a m.eng should be just as good as a m.s?

ocean ledge Mar 1, 2021, 11:16 PM

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ngl, literally no one would care

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the only thing that matters is "what do you know"

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:17 PM

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gotta admit i hope that's the truth

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because the pile of rejection letters i got is huge...

ocean ledge Mar 1, 2021, 11:18 PM

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eh, sounds standard for hiring

delicate bane Mar 1, 2021, 11:19 PM

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ye

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Sip

ocean ledge Mar 1, 2021, 11:19 PM

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for every entry level ml role, maybe every 49 out of 50 people have a masters

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:20 PM

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sheesh...

delicate bane Mar 1, 2021, 11:21 PM

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0.5 have phds

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DoggoKek

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im jk

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its probs higher

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:22 PM

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yeah... reason why im looking at a masters is because of certain things that happened in undergrad i don't think my gpa is high enough for a phd

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might look at trying to transfer into one after a masters

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need to patch my gpa

ocean ledge Mar 1, 2021, 11:24 PM

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it depends

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phd in what

delicate bane Mar 1, 2021, 11:24 PM

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you shouldnt look to do a phd if youre not interested in research tho

ocean ledge Mar 1, 2021, 11:24 PM

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agreed

delicate bane Mar 1, 2021, 11:24 PM

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bc thats a lot of years to invest

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better off getting industry experience if thats what youre looking for

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:26 PM

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Personally I'm most interested in doing research into ML algorithms applied towards recommender systems

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So I suppose the best way to accomplish that would be through either a Ph.D or a position with a company that does research in that field like Google or Spotify

delicate bane Mar 1, 2021, 11:27 PM

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yeah...thats gonna be a high bar, but go for it if it interests you bud

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gotta have that passion to get through a phd program

glacial cloak Mar 1, 2021, 11:28 PM

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Or to even think of getting admitted into one...

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I had a mental collapse caused by personal reasons senior year of college and that pretty much tanked my research.

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Ended up getting a job doing ML, but not in the research sphere. So I'm trying to see if a masters program will help me rectify that and help set me up to do research either in industry or academically

marsh wind Mar 1, 2021, 11:53 PM

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delicate bane gotta have that passion to get through a phd program

Passion, patience, resilience, impenetrable skin... And list goes on

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It does give some very valuable XP that you probably won't get right away if you go direct to industry

abstract pagoda Mar 2, 2021, 1:29 AM

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how hard is the discrete mathematics class usually taken in a computer science degree?

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compared to like calc 1, calc 2 or whatever math classes usually taken beforehand

severe laurel Mar 2, 2021, 2:15 AM

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Its difficulty is really a function of the instructor

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As always, pre-prepare for the course before you enroll

neat ingot Mar 2, 2021, 2:51 AM

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abstract pagoda how hard is the discrete mathematics class usually taken in a computer science d...

i had to take caculus several times. enjoyed discrete math though, so easier for me.

sudden shadow Mar 2, 2021, 4:14 AM

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can somebody help me please, Im new to programming and idk what class to take first

jolly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 AM

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high school classes u dont really go into depth

sudden shadow Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 AM

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maybe I can do computer science in the class course and learn python on my own time?

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and do both

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:21 AM

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they split csa into 3 parts?

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are they like 1 semester each or something?

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@sudden shadow

sudden shadow Mar 2, 2021, 4:22 AM

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idk its this online thing my school recommended me

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https://bitwiseacademy.com/

bitWise Academy

aelius

Home - bitWise Academy

Online STEM and Programming Courses

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heres the website

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i really want to be a software engineer in the future though

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:23 AM

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are you planning to take the csa exam?

sudden shadow Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 AM

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wdym? where is that

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 AM

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it's an ap exam

sudden shadow Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 AM

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for computer science?

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 AM

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college board has these exams that you can take ||they're mostly scams 😔|| that you can get college credit for

sudden shadow Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 AM

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ohh, im only a sophomore in hs so idk yet

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i just wanna get started early

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:26 AM

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if you need the direction that a course provides then you should take it. when i took ap csa, it was not a fun time, but that largely depends on your teacher.

glacial cloak Mar 2, 2021, 5:42 AM

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Man, the AP cs exam... I remember that. It's just a glorified debugging exercise

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I took the exam, and it taught me approximately nothing I needed for a job or in college other than what booleans and variable types were

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And I guess what a for loop is

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But if you're a sophomore in high school I do have to recommend that you take the course. It looks good on your college application and you can get some mileage out of that

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You'll need it if you're applying to most CS programs

sly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 6:12 AM

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hello

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could i get dome help here

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YESSS

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its over @vapid jay

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 6:21 AM

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over?

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Hackathon StartsApril 3rd, 2021
Hackathon EndsApril 4th, 2021

sly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 6:22 AM

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hm?

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 6:22 AM

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Starting Nxt month

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💯

sly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 6:22 AM

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send anotyher link?

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ah got it

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time to prepare

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thanks @vapid jay

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 6:24 AM

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sly furnace time to prepare

♥️

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Everyone give it a try and get cool swags

sly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 6:25 AM

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Yeah!

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this is python right? @vapid jay

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 6:27 AM

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U can devlp on python right?

sly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 6:27 AM

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yea

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only python tho

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yet

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@vapid jay

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 6:28 AM

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NO problem bro ! just try with what u have ☺

sly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 6:28 AM

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can you like explain to me what a hackathon is?

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im kinda confused

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 6:29 AM

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sly furnace can you like explain to me what a hackathon is?

Its all about a idea hunt or a app development that makes a better space and a better world ♥

sly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 6:29 AM

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ahh i see

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thanks a lot ❤️

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 6:30 AM

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Healthcare

Usher the world of medicine and healthcare forward with curious and inspired solutions.
some
Edtech

Help the field of education move from the dark ages to the golden age of technology.
some
Agriculture

Find innovative solutions to bring relief to the field of agriculture.
some
Blockchain

Bring change to transactions and cryptocurrency with promising Blockchain solutions.
some
AR/VR

Bring the world of virtual reality closer to actual reality with out-of-the-box solutions.
some
IOT

Connecting billions of devices with inspired solutions to the world of IoT.
some
Defense & Aerospace

Give Aerospace & Defense the nudge it sorely needs from the precipice of its modernization.
some
Matrix (open track)

Let loose your imagination come up with a unique solution to make the world a better place.```

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This are fields they wish to develop !

sly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 6:31 AM

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ahhh got it

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 8:07 AM

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I didn't got

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2 methods of set in python

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Union and intersection

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2 methods

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I didn't understand what it is

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If anyone knows pls tell

slate mural Mar 2, 2021, 8:13 AM

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Hey everyone, I had a question I hope everyone would give their opinion on. I'm in the midst of applying for a software development bootcamp and wanted to get opinions on whether I should go for it or not, I'll give a brief background. I have a UX/UI degree where I learned minimal about coding (Python, C#, C) and I also learned HTML and CSS. I have spent a lot of time in my spare time teaching myself Python and HTML, CSS (freecodecamp, udemy, codecademy and YouTube tutorials, books) but I struggle teaching myself so that's why I want a teacher who can help guide me, I am aware that a bootcamp won't teach you everything and would still need to learn in my own time but all I want is that push to get me started and comfortable following a learning direction. Any advise would be great thanks

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 9:48 AM

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Why are 99/100 python jobs back-end/cloud/data jobs?

safe carbon Mar 2, 2021, 10:20 AM

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vapid jay Why are 99/100 python jobs back-end/cloud/data jobs?

As there is a demand for it, Python excels in these applications

primal sandal Mar 2, 2021, 10:25 AM

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Are Udemy courses good to learn python as a beginner?

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What course should I buy?

lament atlas Mar 2, 2021, 10:51 AM

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primal sandal Are Udemy courses good to learn python as a beginner?

why not try free sources first like freecodecamp on youtube

primal sandal Mar 2, 2021, 11:17 AM

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Okayy, thanks!

lapis grail Mar 2, 2021, 11:26 AM

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guys help

Zoom_Meeting_Participant_ID__199598_2_3_2021_7_23_53_pm.png

cinder python Mar 2, 2021, 11:59 AM

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primal sandal Are Udemy courses good to learn python as a beginner?

You can buy colt steele's course or andrei negeoi's course on udemy, both are good

fallen crypt Mar 2, 2021, 12:01 PM

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i dont have one

subtle tulip Mar 2, 2021, 12:14 PM

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Hi

true turtle Mar 2, 2021, 12:37 PM

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@vapid jay We do not allow advertising on our server. You can dm @severe widget and we can discuss if the link can be posted in #python-events

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 1:04 PM

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true turtle <@456226577798135808> We do not allow advertising on our server. You can dm <@!6...

That was not a advertisement,💩 it was a opportunity right?

edgy marsh Mar 2, 2021, 1:08 PM

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This isn't python related.

But if any of you guys are data scientists or going to become one or have been one.

Would a software engineering degree that had quite a bit of math allow you to become a data scientist.
I do a level math right now.

Will I have a significantly lower chance of getting that job? Should I change my course to computer science instead to become a data scientist?

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By the way I mean change course to computer science for uni.
I live in the UK, and I am going to do software engineering in uni.

Also, should I not go uni and take an apprenticeship instead? If I'm going into that field. Will I be limited in the future by doing so? And be looked down upon when looking for jobs at FAANG?

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Please mention me when replying.
Thanks

This question is open to
Software engineers/Data scientists or anyone with good advice really

true turtle Mar 2, 2021, 1:12 PM

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vapid jay That was not a advertisement,💩 it was a opportunity right?

Im sorry, but we do not allow such links without prior approval. If it turns out to be not legit, we will be partly responsible for it since it's on our platform. Do dm @severe widget , we will be happy to discuss it with you.

glacial cloak Mar 2, 2021, 1:54 PM

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@edgy marsh I'm not sure about the UK system since I've spent my entire life in the US (and have no idea what the US equivalent to the A-levels are), but I'm currently working in ML and data science. I would say that for ML/DS, if you intend to be working on the algorithm level (developing models and algorithms), having a strong grasp of linear algebra and calculus is extremely helpful as most modern day models are built on an underpinning of calculus and linear algebra. Probability is also quite important. If you intend to be mostly working on the data engineering portion (building data pipelines for instance), then math becomes less important and having a grasp of database systems becomes more important - although having a strong grasp of math will give you a stronger understanding of your business and product which will still be useful. As for the distinction in the UK between software engineering and computer science, I'm not entirely sure about that so you may have to make your own decision based on the properties of the individual programs. Lastly, and I may be the cynic here for saying this and I'm very unsure about how the apprenticeship system works in Europe, but the programming questions that the top places will ask you on interviews will have more in common with your college courses than what your actual day-to-day work will entail. For instance, you may be expected to have a grasp of the Rabin-Karp algorithm for an interview but in my own experience they're not going to ask you to do that in your day-to-day job

edgy marsh Mar 2, 2021, 1:58 PM

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glacial cloak <@!132544200527970305> I'm not sure about the UK system since I've spent my enti...

Thank you,
Very informational. Yeah I've heard interviews and seen them on YouTube. They're more about algorithms and stuff that you should remember which probably won't ever be used in your life.

I see, I also like math, so I was wondering of keeping data science as a viable option. So if I ever got bored of software engineering, I can change.

Thank you for the information

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 2:13 PM

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Why they don't ask ,about ... what ur going to do in ur day- to -day job..@glacial cloak

glacial cloak Mar 2, 2021, 2:17 PM

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I’m not involved with interviewing people or hiring so I wouldn’t know. I assume they assume most candidates can do the job so they want to pick the ones with the most skill? Or the ones who can implement rabin karp during the one time in twenty years it needs to be done, or at least can identify the problem? I’ve seen one of those algorithms come up once during a exploratory project we did and we didn’t end up having to implement it

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 2:18 PM

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But..

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Why they teach things we are never gonna implement

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They should focus on sharpening things ..

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We are really gonna do..

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 2:20 PM

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help

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so i built a personal assistant it does almost everything but i have one problem
it only listens to one command at a time
for example if i say (open google and open youtube) it only opens google not youtube
how can i make it so it does multiple commands at a time?

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 2:28 PM

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If u say alexa open yt and google

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Can it open both at same time?It can't..

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 2:28 PM

#

@vapid jay this is not the proper channel for this

#

check #❓｜how-to-get-help

#

or #python-discussion

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 2:29 PM

#

@vapid jay u can ask this in software development or ...Game dev

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 2:30 PM

#

oh crap i thought i was in the help channel

#

my bad

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 2:45 PM

#

mint imp Why they teach things we are never gonna implement

to be fair, this is a really narrow way of thinking-- all of computer science is built on the shoulders of giants, and so having a strong grasp on fundamentals is incredibly important

#

i would rather hire someone with strong fundamentals than someone who just knows frameworks

#

you can learn frameworks easily, that stuff isn't impressive

glacial cloak Mar 2, 2021, 2:49 PM

#

^ to pastafish and without sounding too unprofessional I’ve seen code and products written by folks who don’t seem to grasp the fundamentals and it does sometimes lead to problems down the road

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 2:51 PM

#

U want a person who. Can do 1+2+3 ...But u want him to also know what is 982+827(just an example)
But a person is there who donno the second big thing but can do the work u want him to ACTUALLY do better than the person who can also do the big problem but
So the aftermath is :
A do both but both with limited speed and sometimes wrong

B can do only 1 thing that is actually implemented but with quick and always correct

#

But still A is selected

#

Tho..

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 2:52 PM

#

mint imp U want a person who. Can do 1+2+3 ...But u want him to also know what is 982+827...

The whole passage is worthless so don't read

#

I'm kid so forgive me XD

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 2:56 PM

#

uhhh

#

By fundamentals what do you mean?

#

like variables, functions, built in data types?

#

or big O notation, algorithms, and data structures?

#

or both

#

OOP and error handling also comes in handy

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 2:59 PM

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I think people mean the second more when they talk about fundamental concepts, but understanding the first is kind of assumed as a given

#

I don’t think you could do very much beyond quite basic things if you only understood things at the variables and funcs level

#

Something that’s come in handy for me, for instance, is understanding how object pointers work in memory

valid osprey Mar 2, 2021, 3:01 PM

#

If I’m early to mid 30’s and want to transition into a python career what should I focus on?

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:01 PM

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I would probably consider fundamentals to at least be most of the concepts that’d be covered in an intro course + data structures/algorithms

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:03 PM

#

@golden tundra would you be able to recommend a data structure/algo book that’s not extremely long?

#

I’m just curious Bc you said you were a former CS TA so you probably know something

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:04 PM

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I think most CS degrees also have a course that requires you to study multiple languages and the nuance you gain from that to flesh out your understanding of things like variable scopes is really helpful

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:04 PM

#

and big O notation + DS/algo is the reason why CS kids in my college dropped the major

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:04 PM

#

hearty island <@!321021038139801600> would you be able to recommend a data structure/algo book...

I’m sorry, but we didn’t actually use textbooks very much in my CS degree

#

Which was great for my budget

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:04 PM

#

@golden tundra ah it’s all good thanks for responding

#

I found a DS/algo book below 200 pages

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:05 PM

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My CS degree was a combination of lecture and then hands on work, which I think was good for figuring out concepts

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:05 PM

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Yeah mine too

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but I’m out of my major now so

#

I only have the internet to help me

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:05 PM

#

I mean
The internet is how I got through my Data Structures and Algorithms course

#

Usually, my homework would be to google some structure and figure out how it was

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

~~maybe I should improve those critical reading skills~~

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

Before we went over it in class

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:06 PM

#

Reading novels and reading textbooks are two different games

#

unfortunately I was never “taught” how to read a textbook and I don’t think I ever will??? So I’m just watching YouTube videos on it

#

~~I could never be a doctor bc the textbooks are like 2K pages~~

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:08 PM

#

you can't really read a textbook like a novel (casually reading end to end)

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

yeah I know

#

there’s thing called active recall?

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:09 PM

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skip to the sections you need, and read it as many times as it takes for it to sink in

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:09 PM

#

You write down questions they would ask you from the text

#

and then next time you answer those questions and then you can refer back to the text

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idk it works for some people I haven’t tried it yet

#

I’ve read CRLS big O chapter like 20 times? It hasn’t sunk in completely

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:10 PM

#

I think doing it data structure by data structure helps!

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Because then it’s smaller and easy chunks

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:11 PM

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@golden tundra that’s actually why I like the book that’s below 200 pages it goes data structure by data structure

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

I find it hard to pay attention to long readings about CS

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

https://apps2.mdp.ac.id/perpustakaan/ebook/Karya Umum/Dsa.pdf

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

even within a data structure, reviewing a single procedure can be very helpful

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:11 PM

#

here’s the link if you wanna look at it

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

So I would actually recommend going even smaller than that, at least at first, if you have the same attention span problem that I do

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:12 PM

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smaller how?

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:12 PM

#

Do you have or can get access to the DS/A curriculum at your school?
What I did and what worked pretty well for me is that I would look up each data structure but only read results from other universities

#

They’ll usually give a general overview of the data structure

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:13 PM

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hearty island https://apps2.mdp.ac.id/perpustakaan/ebook/Karya%20Umum/Dsa.pdf

i noticed that textbook doesn't have hashmaps/dictionaries in it. not sayign it's a bad textbook, but make sure you familiarize yourself with those, they are very very important

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:13 PM

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But it’s also a lot shorter than a textbook

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Or a textbook chapter

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:14 PM

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if it works it works ¯_(ツ)_/¯

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:14 PM

#

@true harness I think CTCI has them but thanks for telling me

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:17 PM

#

mint imp U want a person who. Can do 1+2+3 ...But u want him to also know what is 982+827...

i developed a stroke reading this

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:18 PM

#

for instance
Here’s a link I found on heaps/priority queues.
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/121/notes/heaps.html

It’s only a couple of pages, so I find things like this more readable than a textbook chapter

15-121 Priority Queues and Heaps

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

@golden tundra you’re right this is good

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I will see what I can do

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thanks guys for being so supportive and helping me learn I appreciate it

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:20 PM

#

Hope it helps! I find that CS is a field where text explanations often don’t sink in

#

So textbooks are in a particularly weird spot

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:21 PM

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@golden tundra I think UB has classes on data structures I’ll check it out

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@golden tundra https://cse.buffalo.edu/~hungngo/classes/2014/Fall/250/syllabus.html this is in C++ tho

CSE 250: Data Structures in C++

Data Structures in C++

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:23 PM

#

ocean ledge i developed a stroke reading this

Lmfao

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:25 PM

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the best dsa courses that i know of that are in python are mit's courses

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:26 PM

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yeah but they assume you know big O

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which I kind of do?

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:27 PM

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hmm, let me poke around ocw

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fair enough

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:31 PM

#

What language should I learn after learning python

#

Any experienced guy pls give opinion

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:31 PM

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what do you want to do?

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:32 PM

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Didn't decide @digital fjord mostly software and game dev

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:32 PM

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web development, data science, scripting, devops, gamedev, theoretical programming

#

alright, you will probably want C# then.

shadow moss Mar 2, 2021, 3:32 PM

#

mint imp What language should I learn after learning python

Javascript/C#/Java

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:33 PM

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Unity is quite convenient for gamedev, and C# is one of the main languages to make actual software in

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

Awight..

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@digital fjord unity is..A game dev language?

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:33 PM

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if you want to make games more in the style of older flash games, you can look at haxe

hollow barn Mar 2, 2021, 3:33 PM

#

hey, i a student in india of class 10th and gonna pass my exams and be promoted to 11th; In my country, after 10 grade we choose our streams like PCB or PCM or god forbid humanities, with these subjects we have an additional subject and I wish to take Computer Science but I am not sure what to do after 12th so if you guys could help me out it would be great, all I know is that i wanna do something related to programming

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

unity is a C# library (well, its more an application using C# as a programming language)

#

a game engine

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

@digital fjord ohh

#

@digital fjord @shadow moss thx for both of u to answer my question..Thanks a lot

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

another option would be C++, though I would wait until C++20 features get proper resources.

shadow moss Mar 2, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

C# is also great all purpose language, just like Java/Kotlin is

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

mint imp U want a person who. Can do 1+2+3 ...But u want him to also know what is 982+827...

huh????

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

@hollow barn see I'm promoting to 9th grade and I'm indian too..So I can understand ..
First u have to see ur interest ..Not grades (if u have gud grades then pcm don't do these kind of stuff)...See what ur interest is..

#

@hearty island it's just plain blah blah

#

LOL

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:36 PM

#

jobs have requirements

#

this is nothing new

#

you have to jump through the hoops if you want the job

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:37 PM

#

digital fjord another option would be C++, though I would wait until C++20 features get proper...

Sure

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:37 PM

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I don't like it either but that's life

hollow barn Mar 2, 2021, 3:38 PM

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mint imp <@720924359081984082> see I'm promoting to 9th grade and I'm indian too..So I ca...

not to brag or something but i get 90+

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:38 PM

#

shadow moss C# is also great all purpose language, just like Java/Kotlin is

I will keep that in mind

#

@shadow moss @digital fjord again thx for the opinions guys

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:38 PM

#

hollow barn not to brag or something but i get 90+

Yea ..But what ur interest is on?

shadow moss Mar 2, 2021, 3:39 PM

#

and Javascript is great because web is popular

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:39 PM

#

shadow moss and Javascript is great because web is popular

Web dev is easy

#

Idk ..but

#

U can make a descent looking website using wordpress in like 5mins

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Yea I was talking about html

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

there is more to webdev than just website appearance

hollow barn Mar 2, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

mint imp Yea ..But what ur interest is on?

maths and physics

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

Cz I only know two languages html and Python Lol

hollow barn Mar 2, 2021, 3:40 PM

#

mint imp Cz I only know two languages html and Python Lol

me two lol

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:41 PM

#

@hollow barn so u probably want to become a theoretical programmer

#

If u wanna go in this field

#

U can become data scientist

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:41 PM

#

there is a lot of application for programming in physics

#

things like simulations

#

and of course data science

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

Yea

hollow barn Mar 2, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

so what courses are there for it

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:42 PM

#

I will send u a video

#

Courses depends tho

#

Im sending a video in ur dms

hollow barn Mar 2, 2021, 3:44 PM

#

k

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:45 PM

#

Hope that helps@hollow barn

hollow barn Mar 2, 2021, 3:45 PM

#

mint imp Hope that helps<@720924359081984082>

thanks

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:45 PM

#

mint imp What language should I learn after learning python

haskell

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

@ocean ledge what Haskell is used for?

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

how much do you know in python?

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

@hollow barn ur welcome

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:46 PM

#

mint imp <@536320349516857366> what Haskell is used for?

nothing \s

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

hearty island how much do you know in python?

Lists and tuples
Dictionary and sets
I'm learning loops.
Just started a week ago

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

yeah don't ask for new languages

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:47 PM

#

mint imp Lists and tuples Dictionary and sets I'm learning loops. Just started a week a...

you gotta learn more in the language before you just hop languages like that

#

I get being multifaceted or what not

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

hearty island <@!321021038139801600> https://cse.buffalo.edu/~hungngo/classes/2014/Fall/250/sy...

I mostly read the uni pages for overarching concepts, which are pretty coding language agnostic

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

@hearty island ik

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

golden tundra I mostly read the uni pages for overarching concepts, which are pretty coding la...

the uni pages???

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

hearty island you gotta learn more in the language before you just hop languages like that

Just planning a roadmap for myself

#

That's all

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

ok

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

learn haskell

hollow barn Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

ocean ledge yeah don't ask for new languages

what about if you know till algorithims?

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

that should occupy you for the next 20 years

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:48 PM

#

ocean ledge learn haskell

is Haskall used in DS/ML?

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

ocean ledge that should occupy you for the next 20 years

@ocean ledge lol srsly?

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

hearty island is Haskall used in DS/ML?

who cares? learn haskell

golden tundra Mar 2, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

You know, data structure etc concepts from university pages, like the CMU one I liked

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

i'll check it out

#

what is haskall even used for

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

more or less nothing

#

its a research language

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

@hearty island used for teacher ,research and industrial apps

#

Said by google

#

Haskell

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:50 PM

#

you find it in the wild in production every once in a while

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

for unemployment

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

any nerds here

#

i need advice

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

no

#

but yes go on

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

someone is tryna hack me

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Anyone know what is DS/ML

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

and idk

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

?

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

what i do

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

not the right channel

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Heyy

vapid jay Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

which one

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

Data science is pretty much python, with julia coming up

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

digital fjord Data science is pretty much python, with julia coming up

unfortunately

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:52 PM

#

yes

#

it is just kind of better than python for data science

#

@vapid jay if this person is on this server, please report to modmail. Otherwise this belongs to off topic

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

FB uses haskell for content filtering

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

Hmmm

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:53 PM

#

i would love for there to be dependent typed pytorch

#

damn tensor shapes

#

its not so much that haskell is useful in production-- its that getting a handle on it makes you a better programmer overall

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

ye, that is a merit

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

And it just looks fucking cool

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 3:55 PM

#

if you want a more useful declarative language, look at prolog

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:56 PM

#

i should learn it at some point

#

i'm currently in a rust phase

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 3:57 PM

#

yesss, stay in the rust phase

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 3:57 PM

#

maybe i'll leave ds and work at a distsys heavy company one day

#

is it true that dropbox is like, 90% python?

#

how do they manage that?

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 3:59 PM

#

Noo wayyy

#

90% python

#

Noo way

#

It says that

#

Much of Dropbox is Python - said by google

#

But 90% too much

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:01 PM

#

I mean, you write the code in python and then just maintain it in python

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:01 PM

#

what does dropbox do that wouldn't be doable in python?

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:01 PM

#

dropbox were the big proponents for mypy

shadow moss Mar 2, 2021, 4:02 PM

#

Dropbox also changed a ton of code out, it was on their blogs

little trellis Mar 2, 2021, 4:02 PM

#

Originally it was primarily

#

👆

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

Is it true that
Starting from C language helps to learn other faster ,
But if u start from python, u will miss many internal algorithm because it's very shortened language

#

Myth or Truth

little trellis Mar 2, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

I think that’s up to you

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

Oh no

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

I am my way to python,
If it's true I may first learn c

shadow moss Mar 2, 2021, 4:04 PM

#

crystal plover Is it true that Starting from C language helps to learn other faster , But if u ...

I think statically typed languages up front are painful, they do have benefits in long run even if you don’t use them

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

I started from Python I'm scared

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

if you start from C, you won't learn some very important concepts in programming, like hiding implementation details, encapsulation, and using high level code

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

yayyhazmat

little trellis Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

Python abstracts some thing so you’ll have to go out of your way to get exposure to those things

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

and also, writing C when you don't know C is a bad time

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

crystal plover I am my way to python, If it's true I may first learn c

you're already learning python though, right? i'd just keep going with it

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

the error reporting is terrible

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

@digital fjord I wanted to ask a question

little trellis Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

Don’t worry too much about the language

shadow moss Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

Java/C# is good starting point because it has features of typing but high level features as well

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

I started with pascal and PHP and had no trouble with learning C

little trellis Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

Just learn

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

true harness you're already learning python though, right? i'd just keep going with it

Yea I am, but now I am in dilemma if I should continue or first finish C

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:05 PM

#

so I would say myth

#

just learn python man

little trellis Mar 2, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

At the beginning just pick something you can understand well

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

why does everyone think that there is a linear path to learning something?

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

C difficulty is overrated

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

digital fjord so I would say myth

Alright !

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

life isn't a video game, just program

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

ocean ledge why does everyone think that there is a linear path to learning something?

straightest path is a straight line :P

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

you'll learn stuff eventually

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:06 PM

#

digital fjord C difficulty is overrated

But is python enough to learn all basics, so that if I start with Java/cpp , i won't suffer

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

yes

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

Is it?

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

there is more to learn due to static typing, but there would be things to learn for python as well

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

mint imp I started from Python I'm scared

Same lol

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

languages do differ

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

I was thinking I have to learn one more basic language to start to a high level language

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

python is a high level language

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:07 PM

#

crystal plover Same lol

Hehe

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

Ok thx guys, I will finish python 😆 first!

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

@digital fjord what is the difference

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

high level means it doesn't make you worry about how the computer executes the code

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

"high level" doesn't mean hard, it means more abstracted

little trellis Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

You can get a good introduction to static typing with mypy and type hinting in Python

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

so you don't run into things like finite integers

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

@digital fjord like ..Then ..Why some peeps say Python is easy than js or c++ or any c family

past needle Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

bruh

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

because thinking about what the computer is doing is hard

past needle Mar 2, 2021, 4:08 PM

#

how do i unsuppress?

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

Python is easier because it handles a lot of busywork for you, that's what high-level is

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

imagine you have to check if you didn't go too high every time you add to a number

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

digital fjord so you don't run into things like finite integers

Can't understand ..

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

ocean ledge life isn't a video game, just program

this hit me hard 😁

past needle Mar 2, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

how do i unsuppress?

little trellis Mar 2, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

mint imp <@207089259730042881> like ..Then ..Why some peeps say Python is easy than js or...

JS is only hard because it changes so quickly so it can become a mess quickly. Writing it is pretty similarly to Python at the end of the day

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

in C, ```c
int a = 999999999999999999999999999999999999;

past needle Mar 2, 2021, 4:09 PM

#

😭

#

how do i unsuppress?

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

in python, you will just get an integer with 999999999999999999999999999999999999 in it

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

@past needle unsuppress what?

past needle Mar 2, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

im perminantly muted for sum reason

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

@digital fjord ohhh now I understand

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

@past needle ah, #voice-verification

past needle Mar 2, 2021, 4:10 PM

#

eyy thanks

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:11 PM

#

So the older the language the more worthless it is to learn it rn

#

Hmm

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:11 PM

#

python is older than java

#

or wait, a few years younger

#

age doesn't matter

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

@digital fjord also, ig now most of the company will rely on python for job/career , so ig learning C won't be helpful

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

python's a bit older than java

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

1991 = python

#

.....

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

mint imp So the older the language the more worthless it is to learn it rn

no, low level languages are useful when working with hardware with less space to implement high level languages and plenty of old languages still get used

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

true harness python's a bit older than java

acc. to trend

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

hell, common lisp is still used, albeit rarely, and that language is from the 50s

#

and it is actually useful to know

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

technically numpy relies on fortran calls

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

it is C speed, but also can do high level code

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

I can't think of any languages less than a decade old that will surpass python either

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

Learning C RN would be like learning FORTRAN

#

👀

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

numpy is only a little bit of fortran

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

Fortran was like developed in 1950s

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

though I think a lot of it is made with f2c

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

C is used far more than FORTRAN

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:13 PM

#

digital fjord numpy is only a little bit of fortran

the good parts

#

jk

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

python is usually technically C

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

Most of the good ol' fortran libraries have been fully ported to other languages now

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

Which should I learn first c# or c++

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

Including for numpy

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

mint imp Which should I learn first c# or c++

learn whatever will achieve your goals

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:14 PM

#

They are fairly different languages

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

mint imp Which should I learn first c# or c++

I would say C#. It will be a gentler intro to static typing

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

is libblas fully out now?

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

@tender saddle they are completely different?

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

C# would be my recommendation

#

Although I've coded more in C++ myself

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

as a NON -game developer engineer,
I think I would never use C :thinking:

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

mint imp <@171718574044479489> they are completely different?

c# is commonly used for game design and c++ is a swiss army knife that's tough to master

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

If in future

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

craggy wave C# would be my recommendation

Sure

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

tender saddle c# is commonly used for game design and c++ is a swiss army knife that's tough t...

Hmmm

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:15 PM

#

crystal plover as a NON -game developer engineer, I think I would never use C :thinking:

never say never

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

and cpp has tutorials which start by teaching C, even if the two languages aren't even similar for 6+ years by now

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

C# and/or the entire .NET ecosystem is really popular in enterprise solutions as well

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

I learned C mostly to be able to read cpython source code and see how python works

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

I wouldn't say that C# is for gamedev and C++ is a more general language

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

craggy wave Although I've coded more in C++ myself

a situational prompt for you
if python were your first language , would understanding languages been more easy for you?

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

I think it would have helped me back when I started

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:16 PM

#

So..As I wanna be a game dev (my goal) which is more useful still c#?

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

also, all you kids are young and dumb, so learn a language that you can have fun

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

craggy wave I think it would have helped me back when I started

Would you have learnt C++ after it? 😂

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

don't learn just because its "useful"

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

mint imp So..As I wanna be a game dev (my goal) which is more useful still c#?

yeah then c# is probably a good first lang

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

Hmmm

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

yeah, learn the weird languages

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

crystal plover Would you have learnt C++ after it? 😂

Probably, because that's what I had to use for work.

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

so yeah, best first lang is brainfck

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

craggy wave Probably, because that's what I had to use for work.

Even today ?

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

digital fjord yeah, learn the weird languages

~~the unemployment langs~~

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

best first language is lolcode

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

No, I'm a full time python developer now

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

Thx for the opinion and suggestion guys.as I'm complete newbie kid SprayThisIsFine

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

learn the Dlangs, ponies and shens

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:17 PM

#

Oh

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

C++ was for implementing statistical algorithms for research purposes

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

craggy wave C++ was for implementing statistical algorithms for research purposes

Hmm

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

your first language should be assembly and your second language should be one you write your own compiler for 😤

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

It was mostly ported Fortran code, although it had grown a lot since then

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

craggy wave C++ was for implementing statistical algorithms for research purposes

Is there any special algorithm / concept in C++ which is not in python

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

tender saddle best first language is lolcode

I think it's Python

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

a difference between compile and runtime, as well as a type system

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:18 PM

#

crystal plover Is there any special algorithm / concept in C++ which is not in python

its called the speed algorithm

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

Oh

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

mint imp I think it's Python

python is great for a lot of things but not for game design

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

Speed 👀

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

Much more control over the optimizations that are needed to implement the algorithms themselves (as opposed to merely running them)

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

yeah, python is really only for super simple games

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

If you run analyses in Python, you typically use underlying C-extensions (or other kinds of extensions)

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

it is really nice for those

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:19 PM

#

tender saddle python is great for a lot of things but not for game design

O I have just wasted my time xd🤣 🤣

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

craggy wave If you run analyses in Python, you typically use underlying C-extensions (or oth...

Ok thx , I will finish python first!

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

you can make games in python

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

python is extremely useful in general

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

its not illegal or anything

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:20 PM

#

digital fjord you can make games in python

That's why learning pygams

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

if you know classes, use arcade instead. It is quite a bit cleaner and more akin to how gamedev looks with larger frameworks

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

you could probably make a decent game in python but getting it to run fast enough might be more hassle than learning a better fitting language

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

whatever happened to gui programming languages for kids?

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

smalltalk died

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

like starcraft map maker

#

that would be great for children

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:21 PM

#

stencyl is a decent gui-language game making app

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:22 PM

#

love2D is really good from what I hear, but I don't hold a high opinion of lua

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:23 PM

#

So I came to a conclusion that
There Are very few experienced people who started with python

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

most experienced people started before python was a major language

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

Yes

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

What is visual scripting

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

If there were someone, I would have asked about his experience

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:24 PM

#

I have to say, I would like to have started with python. For all its wonders, pascal isn't all that great

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

Absolutely

#

no one uses Pascal now

#

Why to waste time

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

that is not a reason to not learn a language

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

#beproductive

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

you don't need to be productive

#

you need to having fun

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

digital fjord you need to having fun

Yes that's too a factor

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

digital fjord you need to having fun

Yea sometimes

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:25 PM

#

But trend is also

#

A factor

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

Being productive and having fun

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

and honestly, there is more fun to be found in making shitty flash games with haxe than there is in learning cache friendly struct storage in cpp

#

haxe is actually a bad example

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

That's why I chose game dev

#

It's fun

#

Not dsml

#

Cz

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

it is used quite a lot for real games

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:26 PM

#

It's not that fun

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:27 PM

#

digital fjord haxe is actually a bad example

Actually I feel weird when I think that all I am enjoying learning rn could be a waste if it would not be required in future ||an intuition||

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:27 PM

#

Hmm

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:27 PM

#

yesss

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

crystal plover Actually I feel weird when I think that all I am enjoying learning rn could be a...

you are still learning programming. Languages are really easy to switch out

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

Agree

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

digital fjord you are still learning programming. Languages are really easy to switch out

Probably , I will understand the day when I actually switch

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

i mean I was learning java for a while

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:28 PM

#

the second language is kind of tough

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

didn't really do anything w it

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

The best thing for someone who may want to have a future in programming is to actually start learning a language and do a few projects

digital fjord Mar 2, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

the 6th language you learn is a breeze

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

Even better if you build a portfolio in the process (e.g., GitHub)

#

The language, hmm, you can always switch languages

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:29 PM

#

crystal plover Why to waste time

this is a limited way of thinking and ultimately creates poor developers

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:30 PM

#

I think it's important to give a new language a fair change. A lot of people go into a new language with biases in place. "I expected it to work like [x], but it works like [y]. This language is stupid."

#

It doesn't help you at all when you go into a language like that

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:30 PM

#

ocean ledge this is a limited way of thinking and ultimately creates poor developers

Can be true..

#

Maybe true..*

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:31 PM

#

ocean ledge this is a limited way of thinking and ultimately creates poor developers

Yes , I am still gathering experience

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:31 PM

#

I will switch to c# and will figure out if I get more fun in web dev ,ds ,or game dev

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:32 PM

#

mint imp I will switch to c# and will figure out if I get more fun in web dev ,ds ,or gam...

Only after learning python

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:34 PM

#

@crystal plover yea ofc

muted crown Mar 2, 2021, 4:37 PM

#

Guys what can you use numbers for? Like integers and float type values ?

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:37 PM

#

mint imp <@722075505230348358> yea ofc

Completely gobbling python

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:37 PM

#

Python can be used for web dev?

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:37 PM

#

Which will probably take months,years

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

mint imp Python can be used for web dev?

Yes ofc

#

Flask

#

Django

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

muted crown Guys what can you use numbers for? Like integers and float type values ?

what do you use numbers for in real life?

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

Back end

muted crown Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

Math lol

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

@muted crown maths?I guess

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

Not math always

muted crown Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

Okay thx

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

to subscript

#

a mutable

muted crown Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

Oh

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:38 PM

#

For data analysis

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

!e

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

Too

inner wrenBOT Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

K

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

mint imp For data analysis

It's best for data science

muted crown Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

Okay got it

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

Theoretical programming and data analysis@muted crown

muted crown Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

Thanks

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

crystal plover Even today ?

As far 2 years ago I was using Fortran. so yeah it's used even today

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

@crystal plover Python?yea

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:39 PM

#

muted crown Thanks

Sure thing!

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

marsh wind As far 2 years ago I was using Fortran. so yeah it's used even today

Mostly are libraries of other lang

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

marsh wind As far 2 years ago I was using Fortran. so yeah it's used even today

Hmm

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:40 PM

#

crystal plover It's best for data science

If Python then yea..

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

so I'm interested in getting a Python dev career or at least some freelance gigs asap, I know Python itself inside and out from closures to metaclasses, which packages should I focus on and what's a good sort of project to put on github as an example of my skill?

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

muted crown Thanks

lis = ['what','the','no']
print(lis[2])

This is also usage of numbers rather than math

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:41 PM

#

Yea I said data analysis

#

Em_fz_Soyalkabaap

#

It comes under data analysis

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 4:42 PM

#

crystal plover Mostly are libraries of other lang

hm?

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:42 PM

#

how the hell is indexing a list "data analysis"

#

damn, title inflation has gone too far

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 4:42 PM

#

I mean, same as Sebastian said, he had to use C++ at work, that was my case with Fortran

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:42 PM

#

marsh wind hm?

most companies don't use FORTRAN directly , they are legacy of most libraries of present day lang

true harness Mar 2, 2021, 4:42 PM

#

ocean ledge how the hell is indexing a list "data analysis"

that's software engineering to you, good sir

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

marsh wind I mean, same as Sebastian said, he had to use C++ at work, that was my case with...

Yes yes

#

That's a fact

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

who said it was a company 👀

#

😂

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

marsh wind who said it was a company 👀

🤔

#

Startup

#

For Fun?

#

Or what

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

Lab

tender saddle Mar 2, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

if indexing sequences is analysis, I'm updating my resume to say I'm a senior data analyst

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

marsh wind Lab

Oh, statistical analysis stuffffs

#

As Sebastian said lol

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 4:43 PM

#

nah, quantum mech calculations, far wose

#

Fortran in all over the place in HPC

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 4:44 PM

#

marsh wind nah, quantum mech calculations, far wose

same shit, different hilbert space

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:44 PM

#

woah

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:45 PM

#

:-:

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:45 PM

#

u guys are experienced af

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:45 PM

#

tender saddle if indexing sequences is analysis, I'm updating my resume to say I'm a senior da...

I hv just started programming so i have no idea what things are like ok..
So sorry

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:47 PM

#

crystal plover _u guys are experienced af_

Same here no idea what they are talking about xd

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 4:48 PM

#

ocean ledge same shit, different hilbert space

yeah, almost xD

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:50 PM

#

mint imp Same here no idea what they are talking about xd

One day soon 🤓

#

We will know 🤓

#

Xd

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 4:51 PM

#

Yea

chrome notch Mar 2, 2021, 4:51 PM

#

Hi all.gud evng.my name is mani .just know started pythion course .currently am working as software test engineer

peak halo Mar 2, 2021, 4:52 PM

#

!pban 724959390242963507 racist speedrun

inner wrenBOT Mar 2, 2021, 4:52 PM

#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @night lintel permanently.

muted crown Mar 2, 2021, 4:57 PM

#

Guys how can I type a variable without having an error showing up ?

#

Is apple = 6 gonna work just fine for example?

craggy wave Mar 2, 2021, 4:58 PM

#

Unless your question is going to have a real plot twist, I think you should consider asking your question in another channel, like #python-discussion or a help channel (see #❓｜how-to-get-help). This channel is for discussing Python-related careers.

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 4:58 PM

#

what the owner said

crystal plover Mar 2, 2021, 4:59 PM

#

@muted crown yems

muted crown Mar 2, 2021, 4:59 PM

#

Oh sorry about that

lament lake Mar 2, 2021, 5:12 PM

#

Hi, tbh, how many of Py devs does use C4 models when u have to present your work to colleagues ? Just wondering if that skill is needed or if it's just "new hype term"

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 5:16 PM

#

literally never heard of it, looked it up and now i wish i've heard of it

#

so yeah, thanks

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 5:20 PM

#

what is C4

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 5:23 PM

#

its a bomb

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 5:24 PM

#

ocean ledge its a bomb

funnie

#

why did i even ask

#

I think I'm actually understanding big O now

#

all it took was searching up some guy's github notes from a textbook

#

yeah I need to work to understand O(log(n) but it's not that bad

#

there's this vid from some SWE guy that's really helpful

slim violet Mar 2, 2021, 5:44 PM

#

@hearty island We thank you for your public appreciation of Swedish people.

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 5:45 PM

#

slim violet <@!567030124306759710> We thank you for your public appreciation of Swedish peop...

any time I appreciate all people

mint imp Mar 2, 2021, 6:26 PM

#

What is github used for

#

I mean what will I do if I sign up

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 6:38 PM

#

github is a place to host your git repositories

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 7:00 PM

#

what mariosis said

lunar isle Mar 2, 2021, 7:39 PM

#

mint imp I mean what will I do if I sign up

In addition to what @near ocean said, github is also a place where you can contribute to git repositories owned by other people. One of the reasons that github is often recommended to people is to help them develop their "portfolio" (if you will) of code contributions. Perhaps you host a few of your own git repos, contribute to a few open source git repos, and perhaps do other stuff on Github. The idea is that then listing or github account on your résumé or job application will improve your candidacy. Although I've never seen any hard numbers on whether or not this is worth the effort versus other ways of demonstrating your programming abilities such as taking courses to get certifications or publishing a blog or other options.

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 9:04 PM

#

certs are definitely useless for engineering jobs

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 9:05 PM

#

they 100% are

peak halo Mar 2, 2021, 9:14 PM

#

This application is asking me to put down an acceptable salary range, and I'm not sure what the subtext of the question is. Are they never going to offer me more than the least I put down?

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 9:16 PM

#

I hate it when they do that, or ask for your previous salary

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 9:19 PM

#

peak halo This application is asking me to put down an acceptable salary range, and I'm no...

I think I said this before but ask for 30% more bc they will actually barter you down

#

also Stelercus

#

you might want to do practice interviews with your friends

#

idk if you do those already

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 9:20 PM

#

I leave the expected salary empty if i can

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 9:20 PM

#

or do that

peak halo Mar 2, 2021, 9:20 PM

#

I haven't had an interview scheduled yet, though I know people who interview for developer positions and we'll probably do a mock interview.

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 9:20 PM

#

Its cringe asking for a salary expectation without even looking at my cv

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 9:20 PM

#

you know what's more cringe

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 9:21 PM

#

Unemployment

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 9:21 PM

#

having to copy paste the exact information from your CV onto the site

#

when they could just look at the damn thing

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 9:21 PM

#

Hah i literally had to do that 1h ago for a gov position

#

Why is everything gov so terrible

#

Even had to scrub identifying info

#

They asked for my cv as pdf but then also wanted me to paste it into a textarea

#

shrug

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 9:26 PM

#

I saw some US positions paying $15 per hour for web dev

#

fast food people and wholesale club stores people like BJ's get paid the same

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 9:27 PM

#

Probably dont have to do much then

opaque wren Mar 2, 2021, 9:32 PM

#

can someone help me?

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 9:34 PM

#

depends

#

if it career relateed, ask away

#

if it's about python pick one of the topic channels or check the #❓｜how-to-get-help guilde @opaque wren

shadow moss Mar 2, 2021, 9:49 PM

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peak halo This application is asking me to put down an acceptable salary range, and I'm no...

Generally if it's under market, you will get offered that, if it's way over market, you will get tossed, I hate those applications, leave them blank if it all possible

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 10:12 PM

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hearty island I saw some US positions paying $15 per hour for web dev

tbf, webdev can mean a LOT-- react developer? webdev. the guy you called to make sure your html looks good? webdev. the otaku who lives in the school's basement making sure the high school wordpress is up and running and no one spams the comments section? webdev.

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 10:14 PM

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shadow moss Generally if it's under market, you will get offered that, if it's way over mark...

i have actually seen the opposite-- tossing resumes because they ask for too little, as a "signal that they don't understand the level of work they'll be doing"

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but in general, the rule of thumb is NEVER GIVE A NUMBER FIRST

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always deflect until they give a number first, then work with that

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:14 PM

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Dont have to deflect, salaries are privileged information, they shouldnt be asking in the first place

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 10:26 PM

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So if they require it what do you do?

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don’t apply?

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:27 PM

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They usually have a prefer not to say option

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If not then you decide if they seem decent enough for you to work with

jolly furnace Mar 2, 2021, 10:36 PM

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i literally filled one out that forced u to give a number

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:37 PM

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Its a shit practise and they wont stop doing it until we stop applying to them

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 10:41 PM

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ocean ledge but in general, the rule of thumb is NEVER GIVE A NUMBER FIRST

out of all my interviews I think I had only 2 cases where I was not asked about in the very first interview with HR/Recuiter

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also both cases where I was not asked were interviews with Tech guys, not with HR

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idk, maybe it's France's particularity, but dodging giving a number upfront is seemingly impossible

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:46 PM

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Cant you just say "I do not feel comfortable sharing my salary before seeing a contract or offer"

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 10:47 PM

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you don't have to share you salary

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they usually ask what you're looking for

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:47 PM

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Oh, well i've had both lmao

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 10:48 PM

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i don't usually share my salary during interviews because most jobs usually just assume they can't afford me

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so when pressed i just generically give the "average salary for my role in the region"

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:48 PM

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I guess if they ask for expectations you can say "I'd be happy to discuss that at a later point in the interview process"

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Not much they can say to pressure you tbh

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 10:49 PM

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it's a "know your worth" kind of thing

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:50 PM

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I have no respect for HR at this point tbh

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 10:50 PM

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well I've been asked past salary only once

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:50 PM

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Im this close to snapping at some hr dude

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 10:51 PM

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i mean, it's generally not that big a deal

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unless you've been serially underpaid your entire career because of bad negotiations

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:51 PM

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I havent even started my career yet lol

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 10:52 PM

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so why snap, just chill and carry on

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:52 PM

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I think i've got a temper issue, i've thrown out too many applications over getting angry at some technical difficulty or dumb questions

ocean ledge Mar 2, 2021, 10:52 PM

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i think that's more of an issue than hr

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:53 PM

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It'd all be fine if it werent for them meddling HR reps

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waves fist

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 10:53 PM

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marsh wind well I've been asked past salary only once

but expectations, yes every time

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except 2 I mentioned that follow different process

near ocean Mar 2, 2021, 10:54 PM

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This one time i applied to a government position, they emailed me my username and password in plaintext

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Instant withdrawal

marsh wind Mar 2, 2021, 10:54 PM

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and even trying to dodge they still say "yeah but you surely have something in mind"

alpine karma Mar 2, 2021, 11:22 PM

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Highest paying job?

delicate bane Mar 2, 2021, 11:27 PM

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being born rich

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DoggoKek

hearty island Mar 2, 2021, 11:38 PM

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delicate bane being born rich

my dad makes 120K a year but we still get bullied as the poor ones in the neighborhood mostly bc everyone else is a goddamn ~~doctor~~

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welcome to rich suburban NY

modest panther Mar 3, 2021, 12:34 AM

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lol

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bullied how?

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 12:35 AM

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I live in the "poor neighborhood"

modest panther Mar 3, 2021, 12:35 AM

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oh lol me too

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I live where the "mexicans" live

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being poor isnt a problem; being unable to generate revenue is a problem

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and even that problem is too abstract

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 12:39 AM

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well

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my dad has forgotten how to code

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like

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what does a senior architect even do?????

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 2:04 AM

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is it sus that a company emails you the day before the interview telling u they filled their summer positions so ur going to interview for a fall position

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cuz this is the first time ive had this happen to me of all the ones ive done

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and it feels kinda sus

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:06 AM

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jolly furnace is it sus that a company emails you the day before the interview telling u they ...

um that feels like a slap in the face

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I wouldn't want to work w that company then

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they sound ~~unprofessional~~

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 2:07 AM

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tbh i have no intention of doing the interview

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:07 AM

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what genre of CS was it for?

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or what position?

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 2:07 AM

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some swe

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with asp.net

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:08 AM

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it's definitely sus

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:09 AM

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jolly furnace is it sus that a company emails you the day before the interview telling u they ...

have you ever tried applying as a ~~project manager~~

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 2:09 AM

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well

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:10 AM

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I'm not saying that as an insinuation that you can't code

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I'm just saying it bc I'm considering it

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 2:11 AM

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well i have no experience with that

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so

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idk how legit it is to have a student be a project manager

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:12 AM

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that is true

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but for some reason I think the competition might be less

ocean ledge Mar 3, 2021, 2:38 AM

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hearty island I'm just saying it bc I'm considering it

are you saying it as an insinuation that you can't code?

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jk

ocean ledge Mar 3, 2021, 2:38 AM

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jolly furnace idk how legit it is to have a student be a project manager

a student can be anything-- as long as they're good enough

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:39 AM

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@ocean ledge fun fact I actually cannot code

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I don’t think I can code until I do DS/algos

ocean ledge Mar 3, 2021, 2:41 AM

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anyway, i just got promoted today

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but i hope i don't get direct reports

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i don't wanna deal with juniors

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:50 AM

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@ocean ledge good stuff dude!

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did it come with a raise?

ocean ledge Mar 3, 2021, 2:53 AM

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will know next week

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but i'm already senior, so this is more principal

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maybe ~30%

delicate bane Mar 3, 2021, 3:03 AM

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ocean ledge anyway, i just got promoted today

congrats

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Praise

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time to celebrate

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partypartyblob

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 3:10 AM

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happy for you man

ocean ledge Mar 3, 2021, 3:14 AM

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thanks man

shadow moss Mar 3, 2021, 3:14 AM

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jolly furnace is it sus that a company emails you the day before the interview telling u they ...

I wouldn't call it sus, it just sucks. You didn't make it but they felt you weren't bad enough to outright reject

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I would just consider it a rejection and move on, if they get back to you before you find a new job, cool, if they don't, whatever

ocean ledge Mar 3, 2021, 3:15 AM

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yeah that sounds more like a straight rejection

shadow moss Mar 3, 2021, 3:15 AM

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we have said it before to candidate who just didn't make the cut but we knew we would be hiring more candidates shortly

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that being said, you still have to compete against whatever crop of candidates pop up in the fall

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at Jr Level, it feels like market is saturated

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 3:17 AM

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yeah im not gonna interview cuz its just gonna waste my time

shadow moss Mar 3, 2021, 3:18 AM

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are they still moving forward with interview now?

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 3:18 AM

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they are still inviting me

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but im going to tell them no tmr

shadow moss Mar 3, 2021, 3:18 AM

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haven't you already taken the time off?

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 3:19 AM

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oh i have a remote job

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really flexible hrs

shadow moss Mar 3, 2021, 3:19 AM

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whatever, it's experience, unless it's that big of deal, who cares

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take interview, just know rejection is likely

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 3:19 AM

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thats true

near ocean Mar 3, 2021, 3:22 AM

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Its interview taking experience at least

ocean ledge Mar 3, 2021, 3:23 AM

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i mean you're probably not applying junior level anyway

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so the market should still be fairly open

wheat skiff Mar 3, 2021, 5:18 AM

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the very first text in this entire channel dam

mint imp Mar 3, 2021, 5:35 AM

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yayyhazmat

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 5:38 AM

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ocean ledge i mean you're probably not applying junior level anyway

oh i am. just looking for a summer position

mint imp Mar 3, 2021, 5:41 AM

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What is summer position

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SprayThisIsFine

jolly furnace Mar 3, 2021, 5:50 AM

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oh just 4 months

mint imp Mar 3, 2021, 5:51 AM

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.

alpine karma Mar 3, 2021, 6:56 AM

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delicate bane being born rich

Well...

barren siren Mar 3, 2021, 7:37 AM

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hey can anyone tell me which is a better career path between data analyst and web developer

tender saddle Mar 3, 2021, 7:43 AM

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u gotta eat cockroaches for data analyst it's like fear factor but there are obstacle courses involved in data analysis ninja warrior style

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so whichever you think you can handle

maiden dagger Mar 3, 2021, 7:46 AM

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anyone here a software engineer, I want to become one and am only 15 but want to know what direciton to head in

mint imp Mar 3, 2021, 11:09 AM

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SprayThisIsFine

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What's pycharm..

unique pumice Mar 3, 2021, 11:15 AM

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mint imp What's pycharm..

A python editor, similar to VS Code or Atom.

mint imp Mar 3, 2021, 11:16 AM

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Oh..

bitter shoal Mar 3, 2021, 12:09 PM

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unique pumice A python editor, similar to VS Code or Atom.

I use vs code

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and sublime text

mint imp Mar 3, 2021, 12:10 PM

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Vsc best

unique pumice Mar 3, 2021, 12:10 PM

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bitter shoal I use vs code

Likewise, VS Code is good, I used to use Atom and Pycharm but find VS Code better as I can also use it cross-language i.e. C++ etc and the add-in are good.

mint imp Mar 3, 2021, 12:11 PM

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Komodo is bad

bitter shoal Mar 3, 2021, 12:57 PM

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mint imp Komodo is bad

my friend uses Komodo, I personally think it's bad, but he loves it

bitter shoal Mar 3, 2021, 12:58 PM

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unique pumice Likewise, VS Code is good, I used to use Atom and Pycharm but find VS Code bette...

do u know how to be able to write java in vs code

mint imp Mar 3, 2021, 1:05 PM

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@bitter shoal hmm

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 1:51 PM

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#

What’s up w these job applications I swear

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I bet this is some quirky tech startup that acts like they’re in the show Silicon Valley

unique pumice Mar 3, 2021, 2:05 PM

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bitter shoal do u know how to be able to write java in vs code

Not Java, never used it, Python main language, then C++, JavaScript.

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:07 PM

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I’d rather use java w IntelliJ than w VSC

grizzled sinew Mar 3, 2021, 2:29 PM

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hearty island I bet this is some quirky tech startup that acts like they’re in the show Silico...

Brick wall coffee shops

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:33 PM

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I have a question

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~~a theoretical question~~

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if I contributed to OSS how would I put that on my resume?

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:48 PM

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hearty island if I contributed to OSS how would I put that on my resume?

No clue, brother

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:49 PM

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well I haven't yet

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I'm too busy trying to learn algos/DS

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:50 PM

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Hey guys, I just had a python developer job interview. I answered most of the questions about flask and how we can use authentication and all that stuff. However, the other panelist, in the end asked me a question which goes, "if I have a dictionary with key value pairs and I have a list of elements, which one is faster when it comes to iterating over them?"

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:50 PM

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hearty island I'm too busy trying to learn algos/DS

Just put as much as you know about it.

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:51 PM

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well

#

a dictionary is a lookup

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a list is iteration

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:51 PM

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Even if you haven't, and you know what and how you can do something, just put it up"

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Yeah but which is faster?

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:52 PM

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a dictionary (I think)

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:52 PM

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And why?

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:52 PM

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I mean

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they'll both be O(n) time

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do you know what a hashmap is?

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:53 PM

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Yeah but the reason that it already has keys which access the value objects is the right one. So you're right

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:53 PM

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also don't think of it with small numbers

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:53 PM

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I was thinking of that reason but I hesitated and said it was a list and that went wrong.

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:53 PM

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think of it with really big numbers

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like big inputs

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like if you had 100k things in a list

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v 100k things in a dictionary

true harness Mar 3, 2021, 2:55 PM

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looping over the elements is the same complexity

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@grizzled tundra @hearty island

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:56 PM

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yeah it's O(N)

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:56 PM

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Yeah that's what really confused me

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:56 PM

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true harness looping over the elements is the same complexity

are hashmaps any different than dictionaries?

true harness Mar 3, 2021, 2:57 PM

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no

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:57 PM

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they're the same thing

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:57 PM

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He just went, "Actually the dictionary is faster when it comes to iterating over the elements"

true harness Mar 3, 2021, 2:57 PM

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hmm, what was his reasoning?

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:57 PM

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Because it has keys which point to objects

true harness Mar 3, 2021, 2:57 PM

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they're the same thing

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:57 PM

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true harness hmm, what was his reasoning?

That a dict already has keys so it's lookup is faster

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:57 PM

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this quora thing says dictionaries are a more optimized version of hashmaps???

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they're the same damn thing people

true harness Mar 3, 2021, 2:58 PM

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grizzled tundra That a dict already has keys so it's lookup is faster

that was his entire explanation?

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:58 PM

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true harness that was his entire explanation?

Yeah that's all he said

true harness Mar 3, 2021, 2:58 PM

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it doesn't make sense

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:58 PM

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I guess he was the interviewer so he gets to say what he wants

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:59 PM

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"A dictionary utilises a data structure called a hashmap (Python dictionaries are optimised versions), and a key will be converted using a hash algorithm from a string (or whatever) into an integer value, and it is a couple of very simple calculations to take that integer and find the right place in the dictionary to look."

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:59 PM

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That's what really tripped me

true harness Mar 3, 2021, 2:59 PM

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grizzled tundra Yeah that's all he said

he's wrong

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 2:59 PM

#

what else did he say

#

big O is runtime?

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 2:59 PM

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He was an experienced python developer, how could he make such a mistake

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 3:00 PM

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~~maybe he's out of touch and has forgotten some stuff~~

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 3:00 PM

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I told him, "A list lookup is of order O(1)

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 3:00 PM

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~~he spends all his time interviewing bc he's not the "best"~~

#

that's what I thought

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 3:00 PM

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I guess.

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 3:00 PM

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yeah if you have a for loop iterating through a list it should be O(1)

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bc you have n input

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or something like that

true harness Mar 3, 2021, 3:01 PM

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it's O(n), you have n elements

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 3:01 PM

#

oh

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 3:01 PM

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Man I prepared so hard for this, I went back and read about all the data structures in python like lists, tuples and shit, I hope that question doesnt kill my chances

hearty island Mar 3, 2021, 3:01 PM

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F in the chat for me ig

grizzled tundra Mar 3, 2021, 3:01 PM

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true harness it's O(n), you have `n` elements

No, just retrieving one single element