career-advice

[near ocean]

Theyre just maths

And theres a decent chance most of them have a simple 2 line itertools solution

[hearty island]

Congrats mariosis you can do leetcode questions idk what to tell you

I can’t do them so I have to practice

[near ocean]

bruh thats not the point

the point is that focusing on them so much is bad

[hearty island]

I am not focusing on them. Look maybe you need to read, but I was talking about “learning DS/algo”

I asked for a book what I didn’t ask was for you to start saying I obsess over leetcode

I’m curious over how changing your code changes how fast it runs bc before I didn’t really understand why

[vapid jay]

i got hit with having to solve 6 coding problems in 20 minutes for my first interview...i completly bombed. what i thought i knew i didn't

[hearty island]

and I still don’t really

and that’s ok

[vapid jay]

alot of tech interviews are over the top

[hearty island]

oof be careful mariosis will tell you how easy leetcode questions are

[vapid jay]

like somebody else said...they just follow the big dawgs...when in reality they don't need genius level...an average developer is the norm

leetcode were hard for me, but now they are more easy

its all about practice

[hearty island]

yeah so I think the only way to do it is to go through it

[digital fjord]

Leetcode is about memorizing algorithms more than about being smart

[hearty island]

I don’t like how they won’t let me google

but I would have to google on the job?????

https://youtu.be/bx3--22D4E4

[digital fjord]

since well, efficient algorithms for some things are really hard. Even if they may be considered trivial now, Dijkstras algorithm was once a new fully new thing

[hearty island]

what the hell is that I only know binary search

[rustic dirge]

Looking for a good python boot camp that I can do this summer (between school semesters). I am new to programming and I want to get a better understand it before I start my new CS BS program. I also would like to attend something that would look good on a resume. Any info would be great.

[digital fjord]

shortest path to every node in a finite graph

[hearty island]

um maybe this is better suited for #algos-and-data-structs ill ping you there about it

Or I can google it

@rustic dirge would not recommend bootcamps

[vapid jay]

i was just on linkedin and saw bootcamp graduates being hired by their bootcamp...i think the golden age for bootcamps are over

the market is saturated with bootcamp graduates

[shadow moss]

What Country are you in?

[rustic dirge]

I don't plan on getting a job with it but I wanted to know if there was a select bootcamp that seen as best or something that if I were applying for a job and I had one cert and other guy had another cert the would like pick one over the other

[rustic dirge]

US

[shadow moss]

Don't waste your money

[hearty island]

Bootcamps are designed to manipulate you now

dangle that FAANG company job in front of your face while you pay them thousands

[shadow moss]

Degree >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bootcamp

[hearty island]

Or if you can’t get a degree self learn

[shadow moss]

You have a metric ton of debt coming your way, don't go deeper into it, if you want to get head start on classes, check out a few books or grab reading materials from your classes early and get jump start on them

you can probably find syllabus for your upcoming classes by googling, <Class Name> <School Name> syllabus

[shadow moss]

That's just nature of economy going to shit, a ton of people are tyring to switch careers and tech related was pretty safe this recession

[rustic dirge]

There a plenty of free things online I know. For example: https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/here-are-380-ivy-league-courses-you-can-take-online-right-now-for-free-9b3ffcbd7b8c/?fbclid=IwAR0i9aCFkij_4AyUlgvomIbsN_Q3vwpAGa2AtVSv_Rjxk0v0aPZ4q3eY8Vk

Harvard has a programming one that I was looking into

[shadow moss]

That's fine if you want. My point is whatever you do, don't spend more 💰

[rustic dirge]

its free

[shadow moss]

and if you are going to non elite tech school, the courses are designed to take you from 0 to graduate

[vapid jay]

watch CS50 if u want to get ready for you bachelors...its popular, on youtube and by harvard

[rustic dirge]

I am going to start my BS in CS this fall and just wanted to take something this summer to get some experience.

[shadow moss]

Pick something generic and go with it, my overwhelming advice is whatever you pick should be 100% free

[rustic dirge]

I agree with you. I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions on free ones that look good to have done

[shadow moss]

CS50 is fine

Learning Java is fine

Learning C# is fine

!resources is fine

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[shadow moss]

!kindling as well

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[rustic dirge]

Thanks! I appreciate anything information.

[shadow moss]

Personally, my recommendation would be stick to statically typed language just because C

so CS 101, 102 isn't hell

[rustic dirge]

I am new to all this and trying to navigate through my career change process

[plush galleon]

What do you mean by that?

[shadow moss]

It can be a sign that company doesn't know WTH it's doing or wants to be next Google so work/life balance is awful.

[ocean ledge]

sometimes. I think the industry needs to agree on better filters though for interviewing

weeding out bad resumes is more an art than a science

[plush galleon]

Do you have any good resources to learn Java?

[shadow moss]

I do not

[plush galleon]

I had a company asking me to take an algo test but half of it was advanced C and the rest was balanced between basic JS, basic SQL and basic Python

[shadow moss]

Sure but mature company should know what they do, for example, my current company builds a ton of web APIs, so while question 1 is FizzBuzz, second question is consuming demo web API I made

[ocean ledge]

i'm talking about initial screens-- once you start talking to a real person I wouldn't give algorithmic questions to candidates

[shadow moss]

We don't require coding for initial screens

we found it's pointless (and possibly discriminatory)

[ocean ledge]

we usually give a mix of fundamental distsys questions and systems design

[shadow moss]

Is that type of stuff they will need for the job?

[ocean ledge]

why would we ask if it wasn't?

[shadow moss]

Because that's we are talking about

[ocean ledge]

though there really isn't anything particularly wrong with coding screens

i'd take a 30 minute screen over a day long take home assessment

[shadow moss]

I thought you were doing coding screens

our initial screens are questions as well

[ocean ledge]

we don't do coding screens, but at the same time we don't hire juniors

so ymmv

[plush galleon]

I'm not from US so I'm wondering how one could get a loan to study without rich parents to cover it

[shadow moss]

In US, you get student loans to pay for college but you are going into debt hoping you can claw your way out of it and many people can't

it's big political problem in US

[shadow moss]

We used to (before COVID). We just found rampant cheating and other stuff with Coding screens plus HR isn't happy about it since it can be discriminatory

[ocean ledge]

how is a coding screen discriminatory?

[shadow moss]

if it's long, you are filtering out those with obligations that make it difficult to spend hours doing your coding screen

[ocean ledge]

ah, we have been talking about different things this whole time

[plush galleon]

I saw a video showing that at first these loans were free of interest and it was privatised so now people are struggling with high interests

But here if someone wants a loan the parents have to cover it with financial proofs, e.g. payroll statements

[shadow moss]

for example, a single parent with existing job who took classes on the side and is currently working doesn't have time for your 4 hours of coding screen, esp if they are applying to multiple jobs

[marsh wind]

and if it's short it likely tests wrong things

[ocean ledge]

a coding screen to me is a 30-45min algorithmic screen

i call the long forms take home assessments

which i despise

[shadow moss]

Again, that could possibly be discriminatory as well

[hearty island]

coding screens are where they make you type on codepad

[ocean ledge]

that is a much harder case to make

[hearty island]

over the phone

[plush galleon]

Home assessment?

[ocean ledge]

a 30 minute screen is about as discriminatory then as a 30 minute phone interview

[plush galleon]

They basically give you homework?

[shadow moss]

Not necessarily, if your business doesn't require that, you are filtering out those who might not be good at that one thing that isn't required for position

[hearty island]

yes you do unpaid labor for them

and then they perhaps give you a job

[shadow moss]

that would be like saying "if you can't lift 50 pounds, you can't have this job"

anything you filter on, you must show it has relevance to job

Our Data Scientists, sure, they need algorithms to do their job, our Jr Web API Dev just needs C# and understanding database access

[ocean ledge]

thats a cute ideal way of saying things, until you spend either a) ruthlessly filtering by resume (which can be "discriminatory") or b) decide you actually have shit to do and need some form of agnostic filter

[marsh wind]

I don't think there is an actual "correct" way

[hearty island]

what are we squaring up for

[marsh wind]

but my XP with short tests was not positive

[shadow moss]

Filtering isn't illegal, filtering based of characteristics that have zero bearing on job performance can be

[ocean ledge]

was your xp with long tests positive?

[marsh wind]

one I failed badly because I did not know what to expected and for sure I did not expect lots of <30 sec and <5 min questions

it was better yes but I had time to take them back then

so I actually don't think long oines are fair

for reasons Rabbit said

with other short test my XP was bad because in the quetsion that was longest (read like costs most points I think) I fucked up and returned dict instead of tupple of tuples

[shadow moss]

for example, many jobs may put requirement of "Must lift 30-50 pounds" to have this job, that's filtering out those with handicaps because they may not be able to do that but unless their job requires constantly lifting of 30-50 pounds, you could end up in court with discriminatory lawsuit because you are filtering out people based on attribute that doesn't related to job

also, all this is US based employment law, elsewhere may be different

[marsh wind]

and ofc the answer did not pass the evaluation

[shadow moss]

and I've seen programming jobs with that requirement, unless it's something niche (like robotics or something), that could be discriminatory

[ocean ledge]

a basic ds interview question is "explain how linear regression works"-- if you won't be directly implementing linear regression (because it was done already) is it discriminatory to ask that question?

[shadow moss]

if Data Science uses the result of linear regression, probably not because you need to understand the fundamentals

[marsh wind]

there is, imo, a difference between having an intuition about how it works and implementing it from scratch

[shadow moss]

If you ask me, an SRE how Linear Regression works, yes, it would be because my job doesn't care about linear regression

[ocean ledge]

well i don't know how people interview sres

as far as i know its extended qa

[shadow moss]

It's programming, for systems admin

can you stop?

[hearty island]

me: import sklearn

<@&267629731250176001>

i seriously have to learn the maths behind DS/ML but first i'm learning DS/algos

[marsh wind]

I can explain for example how SVM or RF or backprop works and use some schema/illustration to convey the idea but probably I won't be able to just take and implement it from scratch with just numpy for example.

[ocean ledge]

nice

[peak halo]

I don't know that we can help with that. This channel is for discussing Python in the work place.

[ocean ledge]

i don't know if anyone would realistically ask you to implement rf...

though implementing logistic regression is fair game

[peak halo]

!mute 608543492234280992 Please contact ModMail if you have any concerns.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @keen stream until 2021-02-28 21:42 (59 minutes and 59 seconds).

[neat grove]

!pban 608543492234280992 troll

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @keen stream permanently.

[hearty island]

stelercus how are you doing w job offers dude?

[marsh wind]

maybe, id

[hearty island]

i remember you talking about it a couple days ago

[peak halo]

Uh, I haven't gotten an interview yet, let alone offers. I plan to work on that this evening.

[marsh wind]

I had questions on intuition, but never they asked to implement any of those

[hearty island]

good stuff man keep working i'm sure someone will take you

[shadow moss]

It's still a little early and COVID still sucks

[peak halo]

right

I also finished another overhaul of my resume

[hearty island]

but like he needs to do something

[marsh wind]

tbh, I might not remember all the equations behind, so it;s also a question of time. i.e if it's short I will probably bomb it, but give me a bit of time to check on equation and sure. why not implement it

[shadow moss]

Action can be just as bad as inaction

[marsh wind]

but then we come back to the same point -> what is a "good" time for interview/assessment

[shadow moss]

like at work, when developers want to do something crazy instead of waiting 10 minutes for WebApp reboot

[plush galleon]

What are SRE, SVM and RF?

[hearty island]

SVM is support vector machiines

[shadow moss]

SRE are Site Reliability Engineer

[plush galleon]

Thanks

[marsh wind]

RF - random freost

[ocean ledge]

rf is random fuckery

[delicate bane]

working on the same

[marsh wind]

^ this is random fuckery 🙂 ||also known as overfitting||

[true harness]

radio frequency?

[plush galleon]

I thought about applying to a first tier master's degree but I don't think that good grades in a bad college would be enough

[hearty island]

me too so I can send it to the facebook tik tok recruiter

probably not gonna end well

[delicate bane]

polynomial regression?

[crude crown]

damn, I'm getting tired of take home exercises as well

Next one I'm going to either redirect to previous stuff or start asking for getting paid during these.

[near ocean]

What kind of take homes do you get

[mint imp]

Do anyone know how big games like valorant,csgo,cyberpunk 2077,or others big titles how they are made

[hearty island]

@mint imp wrong channel

[mint imp]

Ok..

[crude crown]

multiple day take homes

[plush galleon]

I'm in an internship and my supervisor asked me to come to the enterprise (usually I'm working remotely)

Guess who's absent?

[terse bane]

the supervisor ? @plush galleon

[high ruin]

I just started learning python

seems fun

I am watching a 40 min video about it

I think it’s too short for programming

[plush galleon]

Your superior in an internship
It's the person that will talk with your college during your examination

[plush galleon]

If you watch 20 videos of 40 minutes about Python, you should discover everything

[high ruin]

hmmm

1200 minutes?

seems good

20 hours

an hour everyday

a month will be enough

thanks:)

but who should I watch?

[plush galleon]

20 * 40 = 800 so 13h 20 min

It was only a way of speaking

(or writing iin this case)

[high ruin]

some practicing

[high ruin]

oh wait

true lol

sorry I am dumb

you know

trying to learn something at young age

[plush galleon]

How old are you?

[high ruin]

13

14 next july

[plush galleon]

Why did you start with Python?

[high ruin]

It is easy

and good for beginners

and the best

[plush galleon]

"the best" ?

[high ruin]

yea ig

It is so easy to work with

well not so easy

but the best for beginners

it offers good salaries

[plush galleon]

I don't think that salary should be the only criterion

[high ruin]

yea especially when you’re too young

I like python because I like programming and it is less complicated than C++

and other

[buoyant canopy]

what are some career for a pythonist?

[plush galleon]

I wouldn't start with Python as a firsts language

I would start with C to get basics of memory management

[buoyant canopy]

my first was C too

[digital fjord]

python is a perfectly fine language to start with. With modern languages, memory management isn't that useful to know

[plush galleon]

You can try data science

A lot of companies use Python for their prototypes

[buoyant canopy]

anymore?

[digital fjord]

web development and devops do sometimes use python

data science is pretty much the only pure python field though, but you don't get hired for knowing python, you get hired for being a data scientist

[plush galleon]

Python waste a lot of resources so I would rather use C/C++ or Rust for a MVP

[digital fjord]

the ease of development more than makes up for the extra resources

[plush galleon]

I forgot devops and that's basically my profile

[digital fjord]

I would say learn python to actually be able to make a decision what part of programming you like

python lets you try pretty much every part (except low level, though there are ways still)

you will end up learning more than one language, there is no real way around that. But the second language is significantly easier

[plush galleon]

If I had a startup I wouldn't use Python for anything but a prototype because Moore's "law" won't work for the decades to come

[digital fjord]

if you have a startup, you won't have to time to write something well because if you don't get it done in a month you will run out of money

[plush galleon]

I wouldn't be able to write a program entirely in Python if I have to say to investors that it requires supercomputer to run

There's a reason if CS50 starts with C

[digital fjord]

instagrams backend is mostly django, except the very hot paths. You don't need as much performance as you think.

[hazy charm]

Select the language that fits the need...most startups have no need for supercomputers lol

[high ruin]

big difference

[digital fjord]

those are really bad comparisons

and the C snippet is wrong

[plush galleon]

I guess you didn't read what I wrote

Syntax isn't the only difference

In Rust, you have ownership and borrowing to improve performances while "avoiding" some hassles of C

[graceful stone]

I think the pic implied differences in typing system

[digital fjord]

but why do you need performance?

computers are fast

[hazy charm]

I did but like

if I have to say to investors that it requires supercomputer to run

Why would you have to say this to investors unless ur app really demands it?

[hazy charm]

Check the needs of the app before selecting the language. I wouldn't bring out a katana to spread butter.

[plush galleon]

Of course but I'm afraid one could think that syntax is the only difference

[plush galleon]

You didn't extract the main sentence

[plush galleon]

That's what I wrote earlier

[hazy charm]

I wouldn't be able to write a program entirely in Python if I have to say to investors that it requires supercomputer to run

Guess we are on the same page then. The chicken egg part here threw me off. Could have been phrased better.

[digital fjord]

if you want to read an IRL example of why you should use more expressive languages in webdev, there is an essay (though it is a lot of lisp worship, the point does hold even for not lisp.)
http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html

expressive means do a lot quickly

python is expressive thanks to the vast library ecosystem

[acoustic gust]

Hey guys !

I’m new here and maybe overall to programming, I’m wondering if Python would be a good skill to learn? And i’m wondering if i’m ever late to it

[digital fjord]

is quite the neat skill to have

[acoustic gust]

Because i’m actually tryna learn a programming language so i might have a good future haha

and my mum is planning to send me to technical school instead of college :/

[digital fjord]

python is a great language to start with

[acoustic gust]

idk if its good

[digital fjord]

though note that for pretty much any job, you will need more than one language

but learning a second and third language is much easier

[acoustic gust]

Wait really? So im wondering tho is learning a programming language like playing fps games?

Once you get the basic fundamentals like aiming in csgo, then you switch to a different game like cod, You can still hit your shots because you got the most basic fundamental which is aiming?

[digital fjord]

yup

there are essentially 2 things you learn. One is programming, the other is the python language

programming is the hard part

so once you got that, another language will be much easier

though there are languages so different that not much will carry over

[acoustic gust]

Wait so once i get programming, another language would be easy?

[digital fjord]

yup

[acoustic gust]

Wait what differents “programming” from “Python?”

Basically Python is like English and Programming is executing it through speaking?

[digital fjord]

programming is being able to think about something, python is expressing those thoughts through the english language

[acoustic gust]

So in other words

Programming is CREATIVITY?

The ability to think and create something new

[digital fjord]

not necessarily something new, but programming is about logic and a specific way of thinking

[acoustic gust]

But i’m wondering aswel

howndo you make money as a “programmer “?

Do u make games and sell it)

Make websites and sell it?

[digital fjord]

you get a job writing code generally

freelancing is possible, but difficult

[cold saddle]

programming more on logic

and also how you let computer understand what they need to do

[acoustic gust]

Do you do that?

[digital fjord]

I am still in high school, though i did do that for some shorter periods

[acoustic gust]

Oh did u get profits?

[digital fjord]

yes

you can indeed get paid for writing code

especially for websites

everyone needs websites

[cold saddle]

html?

[acoustic gust]

Did u ever get paid?

[digital fjord]

yes

[acoustic gust]

How much mostlly?

20$?

[cold saddle]

front end or back end?

[digital fjord]

both

[cold saddle]

ok

[acoustic gust]

?

[cold saddle]

he answer me i

[acoustic gust]

HAHAHAH

[digital fjord]

closer the 100+$ when loosely converting for various things, depending on time spent. Though I am in a country where the avg wage is about a third of the US, so who knows how much it would be in the US

[acoustic gust]

Wait where you from?

[digital fjord]

the czech republic

[cold saddle]

front end language is easy , can learn html+css

[acoustic gust]

and how oldbare yah?

[digital fjord]

you do need JS for most websites these days

I am 18

[cold saddle]

javascript is for backend right?

[digital fjord]

javascript is both

[cold saddle]

ohh okk haha

[acoustic gust]

Ohh i’m 16 haha

[digital fjord]

you need it for frontend, backend you have more choice

[acoustic gust]

what language do you suggest me to learn to program?

[cold saddle]

i am not familiar write code

[cold saddle]

see what you want

python, C++

[digital fjord]

python is a good start, that should give you enough understanding to be able to a more appropriate choice for your interests

[cold saddle]

and also many language

[digital fjord]

can't choose if you don't know anything about programming

better to just learn one and see where that takes you

I started with pascal

[cold saddle]

But if take python as a starter, when change to C++ so much different

[digital fjord]

I have not used pascal for literally years

[acoustic gust]

Perfect! Thanks man!

[cold saddle]

but its ok

Learn Python ba , the python not hard to understand

indent important haha

[stiff pike]

I'd say that c++ is not in high demand but pay is above average if you are good in it.

Java is more in demand

[mint imp]

Yea

How much time should I code in a day?

[digital fjord]

as much as you find proper

some days I do 0, some days I do 12, some days something in between

[plush galleon]

100 $ per day?

[digital fjord]

per project

generally took a few days, sometimes a week, sometimes weeks

[plush galleon]

Is it still used these days?

[digital fjord]

rarely

it is afaik quite nice for fast parsers if you don't want to use C

[plush galleon]

Less in small companies since the change in licensing

You're in high school and you used Pascal?

[digital fjord]

yup. there was a book sale omw home and there was a book about pascal for the equivalent of about 20 cents, so I bought it

[vapid jay]

hey guys i have a pretty serious question and i want to hear your guys's opinion. im a pretty new freelancer and would like about your guys's opinion about a gig,
there is a customer that wants me to programm a script that parses xml data from 6 eshops
and uploads it to his prestashop, prestashop is extremly confusing and it took me about 2 days worth of coding to finish it.
i asked the guy for 90euro (which is about 100 usd ) do you guys think i underpriced? what should be the correct price for this?

[digital fjord]

it depends on what country you are in.

[vapid jay]

czech republic

central/eastern europe

[digital fjord]

as in 48 hours of just working on this?

[vapid jay]

yea pure problem solving time

[digital fjord]

wow, that is quite a bit

[vapid jay]

yea

[digital fjord]

I would say ~8000CZK then.

[near ocean]

Figure out an hourly rate youre comfy with and charge that?

[sonic valve]

askprice = your wanted hourly wage * hours taken or the estimation

[plush galleon]

What's your average salary in Czech Republic?

[magic steppe]

Yeah 90 euros is 2 euros per hour, not reasonable

If my math is correct

[vapid jay]

for a programmer its about 12-14euros / hour

[magic steppe]

At least 350USD

[plush galleon]

In Belgium if one doesn't ask at least 350 € per day he'd better take a full-time job

[magic steppe]

And that's cheap

[vapid jay]

😐

[plush galleon]

But in Czech Republic it's different because of the average salary and the cost of living

[magic steppe]

Always ask for 70% more than what you think is reasonable up front, never know what obstacles you might hit

[plush galleon]

You mean 170 % of your estimation?

[sonic valve]

Also as a entrepreneur you need to count for downtime in work, wont always have someone lined up so that increases the hourly price quite a bit

[plush galleon]

Don't forget taxes

In Belgium you have to multiply the wished hourly rate by 2.5

[vapid jay]

yea

[magic steppe]

Yeah, and then talk it down from there, but to a certain point. Some things seem not that difficult and then you might come across extremely time-consuming problems

[digital fjord]

it would be about 5EUR per hour for work like this, though here it would be easy to argue for more since it is qualified work

[magic steppe]

How long have you been a freelancer for?

[plush galleon]

If I want to earn 20 € per hour I have to charge at least 50

[vapid jay]

is this a question for me?

[magic steppe]

Yeah

[digital fjord]

yeah, for large things like this, make sure you properly do taxes

[vapid jay]

about 2 months

[digital fjord]

even if most people just commit tax fraud, better to be legal about this

under 10,000CZK per year you don't have to tax

[vapid jay]

yea after the taxes i got 72 euros xd

btw i also set up cron with the script on his server and enabled all the api stuff

[sonic valve]

Dont think your tax bracket should be that high if this is your main source of income. (not from same country so might be all wrong)

[digital fjord]

we have pretty high taxes

[magic steppe]

Have you already told him that you'll take 90USD?

[plush galleon]

Past some point you can get to an upper bracket so pay attention to that as well

In Europe you can be surprised by the taxes so never underestimate it

[vapid jay]

yea i finished the job too

xd

[magic steppe]

Oh

[vapid jay]

😐

[magic steppe]

Well, lessons learned

[vapid jay]

i guess

[magic steppe]

Nice English, auto-correct

[vapid jay]

xd

at least i have the code

[magic steppe]

For future reference

[vapid jay]

its pretty usefull for starting a dropshipping business

yh

[magic steppe]

How long did you learn programming before getting into freelancing? Just wondering

[vapid jay]

damn i started when i was 10 years old in unity

then i tried to be a edgy haxxor

then i learned webdev

php

[plush galleon]

How old are you?

[vapid jay]

and now python

14

lol

[magic steppe]

Freelancing at 14 is pretty damn good

I'm 14 as well and started in August

[vapid jay]

cool

[fossil ruin]

how do you find work

[simple saffron]

yea, exactly

im 26 😄

I wanna go freelance and find work

but 0 experience as to how to do it

[high ruin]

I’m 13 and I started learning python just today

it was fun

I learned some binaries

[fossil ruin]

im 15 and need to start earning money whilst its tax free here (UK), and freelance programming seems to be the easiest but also the most interesting way. But yeah the problem is how you find work and how do you convince people to choose you when you have 0 working experience

[hearty island]

interviewers should not hire based on talent

they should hire based on merit and hard work

[plush galleon]

You have to learn Python and look for gigs

[hearty island]

just start applying

or open a profile on fiverr and upwork

although i don't like how i can't be anonymous on fiverr and upwork

i HAVE to show my face

like what if they stalk me or something?? say that i didn't do stuff correctly???

[high ruin]

Your thoughts?
(I started with Python today so I’m noob Ik"

[hearty island]

not the right channel

[high ruin]

Oop sorry

[hearty island]

all good

[charred flare]

hey guys im computer science student, currently second year gonna choose Buisness intelligence as my specialty,but shifting towards data science probably im looking for guidance like when to start and stuff , i know the basics of python and linear algerba, probability etc would really appreciate it if someone tell me where to start

[hearty island]

Kaggle is a good place to start

[charred flare]

but im still at the starting point

like no experience

except for some java apps

and web apps

[hearty island]

yeah

kaggle is good

i would start reading stuff on numpy, pandas

just google best Numpy/Pandas books and see what comes up

and then you can ask #data-science-and-ml about good ones too

whatever you do do not do a udemy course bc they will take your money and just leave you in tutorial hell

and also contribute to OSS about machine learning projects

[charred flare]

thanks man

u guys r the best

btw

[hearty island]

any time

[charred flare]

how much linear algebra is enough?

and math in general

[hearty island]

a general understanding of calculus, linear algebra, statistics, discrete maths is good

i still have to do all of that bc I tried to get it into DS/ML without it and it was not fun

cue a lot of dumb questions lol

[charred flare]

haha

i mean to be honest

math is my nature

just need a bit of knowledge

[hearty island]

there is a good book that's like practical statistics for machine learning?

it has a crab on the cover???

it's good I think

[marsh wind]

I don't fully agree with that. I saw few decent ones, if you snatch them on sale for 10$ they can be good bang for buck to serve as quick reference and general intro

[hearty island]

well it was my fault not theirs for not knowing the math although they said I don't need to know math straight away

[marsh wind]

but yeah, their full prices of 300-400$ are outrageous

[hearty island]

but it helps

[hearty island]

I look at the math behind big O notation and brain goes BRRRR

Udemy? or books?

yeah

[marsh wind]

big O can be daunting, yeahhh

[hearty island]

yesterday was my first day learning it

it was not fun

[marsh wind]

but so does the whole part of calculus with limits hehe. Derivatives and integrals are actually easier imo

[hearty island]

yeah big O is partly based on limits

especially where you drop constants bc the input is gigantic

[marsh wind]

yeah i know

[hearty island]

but like idk how to look at some code and be like

oh yeah the time complexity is this _______

it comes w practice

[charred flare]

where do u guys look for boooks?

and is there any free resource?

cause we dont have paypal in my country

[hearty island]

google the name of the book + PDF

[charred flare]

does it usually comes free?

[hearty island]

yes

it's a college trick so you don't spend hundreds of bucks on textbooks you're using for one damn semester

seriously they're hella expensive

[charred flare]

oh yeah tell me about it

[hearty island]

yeah my dad is forcing me to use my money to pay for them now

as a way to pressure me to get a job as a cashier or a fast food person

[stoic sierra]

Hello

[vapid jay]

im lost

is it fine if i asked some questions her e?

[hearty island]

about careers sure

[vapid jay]

yeah about that

i finished data types , loops(while , for , neested ) , calsses , and i can solve beginners exercies on pynative very smoothly now

but i dont know where to go from there

i have not learnt any madules so far and i have no idea what to start with sense i'm learning cyber security what would be the right path for my python journey ?

modules*

[plush galleon]

I'd say it depends on the instructor

[hearty island]

Jose Portilla is one of the "best instructors" on Udemy

[plush galleon]

Steele and Neagoie aren't bad either

[delicate bane]

oh yeah there are a few good ones on there.

[hearty island]

well idk

after i finished the course i had no clue what i was doing

[delicate bane]

everyone learns differently

i found it helpful for me

[hearty island]

I was just copying their code and being like oh yeah this is how linear regression works

[delicate bane]

[hearty island]

developed a heavy reliance on their code

and then i got stuck in tutorial hell

and then i took a break for 2 months

[plush galleon]

It also depends on the fact that you adapt the code to fully understand it

[hearty island]

idk dude it was mostly just import sklearn and read doc

dude i was just like ok import sklearn traintestsplit yay done

that is no way to learn

[keen mantle]

Anyone help me. By anyone I mean kinda pro python coders or atleast good coders

[hearty island]

the interviewers will expect you to know sklearn in and out

[plush galleon]

I couldn't tell you why my current internship project (doesn't) work

[plush galleon]

A coder is basically a person that can code, i.e. write code without really thinking

It's not a programmer

[hearty island]

hey guys should i keep my unpaid internship on my resume

[plush galleon]

Why do you keep crossing out some parts of your messages?

I can't get a paid internship atm (I'd have to work abroad) so I hole I'll learn something in my unpaid internship and put it on my resume

[hearty island]

i did marketing stuff tho I never coded for them

[plush galleon]

Marketing stuff is still work, isn't it?

[hearty island]

but is it coding relevant?

[plush galleon]

Were you hired?

[hearty island]

yes

whatever

they won't know it was unpaid if i don't say it was unpaid

i'm not saying in their that it's unpaid

[plush galleon]

You can also write your babysitting experiences

[hearty island]

marketing people are good at talking

their whole thing is talking

yeah i have some ideas

[vapid jay]

hi

someone can look my first script??

it is in french

just chose a number over 18

et write "Oui"

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

It looks like you tried to attach a Python file - please use a code-pasting service such as https://paste.pythondiscord.com

[vapid jay]

sad

[jolly plover]

sad

[marsh wind]

He's OK but I much prefer Kirill Eremenko

He gives bit more about Algos and complements with references to research papers if you want theory

[hearty island]

ok but i've heard people saying he's overrated too

whatever people will say anything

you don't know their circumstances

[marsh wind]

Well yeah. Everyone learns differently, has different background and etc.

[hearty island]

for example i can't learn from gigantic paragraphs

[hearty island]

So uh stupid question

Should I be applying after I “finish” learning data structures and algorithms

or should I just be applying now?

I ask bc there’s a good chance the interviewers will ask me about DS/algos and it’ll be an automatic reject if I don’t know them

but there’s also the off chance that they’ll not ask me

[jolly furnace]

i want to say just apply

cuz u never know

even if u do take the loss

u will improve from that

[hearty island]

ok thanks i needed to hear that

not me forgetting how to use linkedin bc i haven't looked at in so long

why do these internships make it so damn hard to see if you'll be paid

i mean they're really gonna ask me to have all these skills, but won't even mention how much they'll pay me?

[peak halo]

Is it normal that I'm refusing to apply for a position where I have to manually restate everything that's stated in the resume?

@hearty island Can you please put those comments in a paste bin or something?

[hearty island]

sorry I apologize

!pastebin

https://paste.pythondiscord.com/pewatixopu.sql

[peak halo]

No problem. Any time you need to refer to a large amount of text that isn't part of the actual discourse (which is usually but not always code), the pastebin is the way to go 👍🏻

[hearty island]

isn't it normal for jobs/internships to include the compensation in the description?

i would think it's very important..... and it should be there

[peak halo]

the jobs I've applied for usually don't say

[hearty island]

but what if i apply to the internship and they're like yeah this is an unpaid internship...

[peak halo]

I think they want you to tell them how much you want in the hopes that you'll request less than they would have given you, and then give you that amount

Don't take an unpaid internship. But CS internships are usually paid. (at least in the US)

[hearty island]

never tell them how much you want

they'll lowball you

[peak halo]

they'll probably pay you like 15 an hour

[hearty island]

that is fine as i live at my parent's house

but i'm not working for free

[vapid jay]

damn i` have been looking for a job forever smh

[peak halo]

but I don't think there's a negotiation with internships

[jolly furnace]

ive only had pay listed in the offer letter

but if u dont like the pay u can always reject them

[vapid jay]

that true

[hearty island]

i mean..... textron gave me $25 per hour

[peak halo]

did they actually offer it to you?

[hearty island]

yes

[peak halo]

and this would be this coming summer?

[hearty island]

yes

but i can't even go

[peak halo]

when do you have to say yes by?

[hearty island]

april 30

[vapid jay]

if they ask how much $ you want, u say something like 2x above ur estimate lol

[hearty island]

yeah bc they'll barter you down

[vapid jay]

ye

[jolly furnace]

textron makes planes?

[hearty island]

i can't go my mom won't let me go to Georgia during a pandemic

[peak halo]

the state or the country?

[hearty island]

the state

[peak halo]

what's wrong with georgia the state?

[hearty island]

they make a shit ton of stuff

[peak halo]

or is it just that she won't let you leave the state you're in currently?

[hearty island]

they won't pay for me to travel there and my mom thinks i'm gonna catch COVID and die

[jolly furnace]

well 25 bucks a hr is higher than my current pay

[hearty island]

i just have no freedom

[jolly furnace]

as some swe intern so

but then im not in america

[hearty island]

so ig i should apply to their jobs anyways

if it's unpaid i can ghost them

i had an experience w unpaid work in marketing and it was not fun

and i have yet to find a good startup that will tell me their burn rate

"Don't worry we have that handled"

i'm sorry if i sound pessimistic i'm just being realistic

[vapid jay]

i gone into it like applying to all the highest paying stuff and hope for one to accept me

[hearty island]

hmmm

[vapid jay]

i think i am blacklisted now lol

[hearty island]

does linkedin have an API? maybe i can write python code that filters out the highest paying intern positions

nah it's probably illegal/ against their TOS

[near ocean]

Linkedin does have an api

But its for recruiters

[vapid jay]

i thought u could sort by $

[near ocean]

If you wanna automate you can scrape it

[hearty island]

but are scrapers against their ToS?

[near ocean]

Yea but this is linkedin

[vapid jay]

so many of the linkedin recruiters are just stealing ppls data thru resumes and stuff

[hearty island]

nope scrapers are legal on linkedin

just read it

[near ocean]

Scrapers are rarely permitted on any site

https://www.linkedin.com/legal/user-agreement#dos

[hearty island]

F in the chat

it's fine

there is a pay filter

but it's by 40,000 per year

and most internships pay by the hour....

[near ocean]

Im not gonna suggest you do it cause of the server but im not gonna feel bad for linkedin if people mass scrape their shit

[hearty island]

they probably do

they just don't get caught

[plush galleon]

I wish I could get paid internships here

I'm too poor atm

[vapid jay]

jst get a job lol

[plush galleon]

I would like to take a master's degree next year

How did you manage to get an internship without algo or data structures?

[hearty island]

god knows dude I even asked why he didn't give me a leetcode question and the interviewer laughed at me

and he was like

[stable mural]

that sounds kinda sus

[hearty island]

ok? you want a leetcode question?

can you even do those yet?

and i was like uhhhhhhh not yet

it is very sus

[plush galleon]

He would pay you knowing that you don't know anything you should know?

[vapid jay]

[plush galleon]

"sus"?

[jolly furnace]

well if the dude laughs at ur skills

fuk em

[vapid jay]

suspicious

sneaky

[hearty island]

he just asked me about my gpa and why i want the job

that's all

and now that i'm gonna refuse the position

i'm probably blacklisted from textron

[plush galleon]

What's your GPA?

[vapid jay]

i dont think they will blacklist u, they know if ur good for a job now u could be good for it in a couple years or watever ye

[hearty island]

3.7

[vapid jay]

u gotta just be straight up with them

[hearty island]

please i know people w 3.2s who work for Google now

[plush galleon]

They wouldn't blacklist you for that

I'm in a country where you can't get that scores so they have a conversion system

[hearty island]

idk dude

[vapid jay]

i didnt finish 9th grade lol

[hearty island]

if i was an interviewer and i spent all that time vetting a candidate and interviewing them

gave them an offer and they say no?

leaves a bad taste in their mouth

[neon moat]

no it doesnt

they dont care about you#

they couldnt care less

[vapid jay]

naw they dont get paid comission i dont think lol

[hearty island]

oh

[neon moat]

companies couldnt care less if u refuse an offer

[vapid jay]

u still a contact for them

[spark needle]

Hey!, I just started python, any recommendations or mistakes which I have to look care of to become a good AI programmer?

[plush galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/undoubtedly-derek-muller-veritasium-definitely-indeed-gif-20488378

[neon moat]

why did u refuse their offer?

[vapid jay]

tell em u got covid

[neon moat]

@hearty island

[plush galleon]

What's your background? Any IT-related skill?

[hearty island]

my mom won't let me go to georgia(the state) during a pandemic

[plush galleon]

How old are you? Can't you go there without her permission?

[neon moat]

are you of adult age?

[golden tundra]

That’s the nature of the beast

People are always turning down offers

That’s just a fact of recruiting

[hearty island]

you don't know my parents lol they're just built differently

[golden tundra]

Only really bad companies take it personally

[near ocean]

That goes both ways

[spark needle]

Just cleared my high schooling and learning programming on my own

[near ocean]

Imagine going through all rounds of interviewing for a company and rhey just tell you no

[vapid jay]

u gotta tell ur mom it time to set the bird free of its cage fly free young bird, free into the sunset

[hearty island]

kek

[neon moat]

any company that takes it personally that u turn down an offer has done u a favor

[vapid jay]

[near ocean]

Companies have more power than you tho and recruiters talk

[neon moat]

yawn

what a load of rubbish

[plush galleon]

My mom was kinda protective but she had to let go

[vapid jay]

i have 1286 linked in contacts

[plush galleon]

Do you plan to go to college in an IT-related field?

[golden tundra]

You can certainly get blacklisted if you behaved really badly around a refusal, but just a refusal shouldn’t burn a bridge

[neon moat]

^ exactly

[spark needle]

Yeah applied for Computer Science in some universities

[vapid jay]

facts

[neon moat]

could be a number of reasons why u turn down an offer

[near ocean]

This isnt about what should happen its about what does happen

Ofc turning down an offer shouldnt burn that bridge

[vapid jay]

it doesnt

usually

[neon moat]

no one should feel obliged to accept an offer just because someone might get butt hurt

f** them

[near ocean]

Usually it doesnt

[vapid jay]

if it does burn a bridge, would u want to work for them anyway

[near ocean]

No you wont, but what if it burns down other bridges too

[plush galleon]

I wouldn't start with Python as first language

[neon moat]

use companies for your own benefits, coz once u work for them they will use and abuse you for their own benefit anyway

[plush galleon]

Overall I'd say you should pay attention to details or you won't be able to learn a more difficult language

[neon moat]

python or javascript is a great first language

but pick only one and stick to it

[vapid jay]

ye i had one job for 13 years, they got sued by the irs and lost my job $$$

[neon moat]

only people with less or no experience with being employed dont yet realise companies dont care about u

[peak halo]

https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pocket-reference-guides-oreilly-books

I feel like I'd eventually have use for most of these books, but I guess it's really a question of whether or not they're better than what I could find online.

[neon moat]

use them for your own benefit

[plush galleon]

C is way better but while it gives you better basic skills it's also more frustrating sometimes and more difficult to learn

[neon moat]

whether thats for $$ or as a stepping stone

this is a python forum and ur telling them about C?

[vapid jay]

@lament hollow that's a good boy

[plush galleon]

You had them sued by IRS?

[vapid jay]

naw they owed the irs like 2mil and had to break up the company

like they would withold tax from our wages then spend it and not give to irs

[plush galleon]

I had to tell them that if they are going to college they will learn C so something like CS50 would give them a good overview

[neon moat]

🤨

[hearty island]

how very joshua fluke of you

[vapid jay]

the owner is some billionaire with like 50 companies too lol

[spark needle]

If i do C along with python, will it be beneficial ?

[plush galleon]

It reminds me of someone that didn't pay taxes for 3 years and publicly said that if IRS found him he'd go to prison

Spoiler: he went to prison

[plush galleon]

I think that it will

[neon moat]

thats terrible advice

they should focus on 1 language

not 2

[plush galleon]

Ask David Malan

[neon moat]

for goodness sake

[vapid jay]

lol ye irs want's their $$$ even if it's the last $ u got

[plush galleon]

A couple of weeks of C and your language learning (whether it's Python, C#, Java or anything else) will be better

[spark needle]

Okay, so we basically have to master one language before starting another

[vapid jay]

i like c++ the most

[neon moat]

learn one, not master

why master?

master takes a life time

[vapid jay]

i started with arduino to learn basic stuff then some javascript for websites, python to plot some chart data stuff, and cpp on unreal engine to make some kinda online casino games ye

[neon moat]

what im saying is, as a beginner and learning your first language, just pick one and stick to it, if its C then fine, but focus on one

[plush galleon]

I don't know how IRS works
In my country, if you don't declare everything you earn and get spotted, they will multiply what you owe
They can examine your income statement of 7 years ago

[neon moat]

python is built on top of C, and if you want to focus on comp sci then fine

but u dont need C to be a good python dev

thats all im saying

[vapid jay]

yeah they are pretty ruthless ye

[spark needle]

I see, that's gonna help alot. Thanks

[vapid jay]

c is a good lang

[plush galleon]

I wasn't suggesting him to learn advanced C but basics C make other languages easier to learn and teaches you what you should avoid

[vapid jay]

theyr all good except for apex dont learn apex lol

[plush galleon]

You can also use JPython

[neon moat]

are we really getting picky?

please

default python is CPython

[plush galleon]

I live in Europe and in Switzerland you just have to make a sworn statement

[neon moat]

theres also Brython or something

but anyway

lol

[vapid jay]

thoughts on go

[neon moat]

i want to learn Go

dont know much about it

if anything haha

[vapid jay]

i am iffy bout proprietary company languages like scala n stuff

[plush galleon]

Revenue services aren't dumb
They know that you fraud but you have to fraud less than what would make you ridiculous

[neon moat]

but if thats what pays the best, and you know these languages will hang around forever, because companies arent going to replace these legacy languages

[vapid jay]

i run online poker games and i think i might get done by irs lol

ya that is true josh

[neon moat]

thats why i want to learn go

for more money

but for any beginners reading i wouldnt be in this position if it wasnt for python

small step at a time

python was my first language and ive been employed as a software dev/ engineer for almost 2years

so looking for something more now

[plush galleon]

They want you to pay taxes and won't sue you for a few dollars (or whatever your currency is) but if keeping their eyes closed make them look like idiots, they won't hesitate to make you pay way more than you owe them

[vapid jay]

as far as i know i would prefer to learn rust or go than php

[neon moat]

and saw Go was a top paid language

[plush galleon]

I have to learn Java for college but I'm bored of my bad Java classes

[neon moat]

yeah Rust or Go, tbh I just like the name Go haha

[plush galleon]

I learned basics of Rust and I kinda liked it

[vapid jay]

i think java is worth learning it will take u in some kinda good direction

many applications

[plush galleon]

When I got bored of books I bought some training courses thanks to Humble Bundle

[neon moat]

Java is good for learning about static typing

[vapid jay]

ye there is soo much content out there in general for learning programming

[neon moat]

and OOP

[plush galleon]

I preferred when they sold Humble Indie Bundles but I guess it's over

[plush galleon]

Oracle screwed it to the point where young companies would rather use C#

The license terms changed

[neon moat]

Nocxy I appreciate you're trying to help people, but saying stuff like young companies would rather use C# is just rubbish

Java is a good language that isnt going away

Java will teach you a lot of good concepts

static typing, OOP, interfaces etc

[plush galleon]

You didn't read everything I wrote

I was talking about the license terms

[vapid jay]

we good yo ye

[plush galleon]

I heard owners of small companies talking about the transition to C# because of the license terms

[neon moat]

does it actually affect small companies tho? 99% of time no

and its not cost effective for any business to rewrite a whole repo in another language if they are paying proper dev wages

unless there is a really really good reason

[plush galleon]

It does

They are looking for the cheapest technology and C# is close enough to Java to switch small companies' projects

[shadow moss]

Rewriting code is crazy expensive

[plush galleon]

They wouldn't switch to Rust or C++

[shadow moss]

So there is no reason to rewrite JVM into C#

[plush galleon]

I'm not talking about that

[neon moat]

Rabbit is here, ill take my leave

[torpid shadow]

So i've decided not to go into computer science

because that's just not how the job market works for it

[shadow moss]

Licensing issues are JVM not Java particular

[torpid shadow]

like nowadays there are so many people doing computer science

demand is low

and I don't want to be paid ruble wages

so I'm going into psychiatry

[shadow moss]

Ok?

[torpid shadow]

just giving you guys an update

[fossil ruin]

well gl with that then

[hearty island]

have fun w med school lmao

[vapid jay]

do both lol

[fossil ruin]

write a pyschologist ai

make millions

[neon moat]

i have no education whatsoever, and didnt stop me from becoming a paid dev coz i worked my a** off

[hearty island]

idk dude people always need devs

[neon moat]

nope

[torpid shadow]

no they don't

[hearty island]

yeah? according to who?

[torpid shadow]

there are so many people learning to be a dev nowadays

[shadow moss]

So if you have issues with JVM licensing, stuff like Kotlin is not better unless you compile

[torpid shadow]

by 2050

[hearty island]

what bullshit

[torpid shadow]

there will be enough devs

that we will be paid ruble wages

I want to afford a nice house

[neon moat]

2050?

[torpid shadow]

yes 2050

[neon moat]

30 years away

lol

[torpid shadow]

yes

[shadow moss]

Don’t feed

[neon moat]

are you a troll?

[hearty island]

nah she's a troll

[neon moat]

haha

[hearty island]

forget about her

or him

[torpid shadow]

he*

[hearty island]

god knows

whatever

[torpid shadow]

please respect my pronouns

[plush galleon]

When small companies have to update something they look for what would cost them as few as possible
Managers of small companies confirmed that their new projects wouldn't use Java

[hearty island]

nah he's a troll whatever

[torpid shadow]

ok good

[shadow moss]

Ok

[torpid shadow]

and in the possesive you call me her

[shadow moss]

But many companies don’t care

[torpid shadow]

like

he is good and so is her friend

[plush galleon]

Isn't there too much people in this field?

[torpid shadow]

no there isn't

i looked it up on google

[shadow moss]

Don’t feed

[torpid shadow]

they have $200-300k wages

[hearty island]

pls they prob just watched too much grey's

anyways i digress

[plush galleon]

Never attended college?

[shadow moss]

Go for it

[neon moat]

@plush galleon check the pinned post in this channel

[plush galleon]

@shadow moss I though she was serious

[karmic patrol]

where the trolls?

[hearty island]

so why are you coming to an official python server and telling us this who asked?

[shadow moss]

It’s not programming related so server care is finished

[hearty island]

yeah but it's careers in coding not psychiatry

whatever

[kind hinge]

lol

[shadow moss]

Most companies don’t care about Oracle licensing changes. There is openJDK

[plush galleon]

Thank you for the pinned post

[shadow moss]

And several LTS builds of OpenJDK

[plush galleon]

Big or even medium companies don't but a lot of small companies do

[shadow moss]

Small companies are small

[plush galleon]

I'm going to land a job as a psychologist just because there are not enough people in this field

[neon moat]

no probs

[shadow moss]

Some will get big, some will crash and burn. I haven’t heard of mass companies saying “No to Java because licensing”

[plush galleon]

Except Google setting aside Java for Sun-related reasons

[plush galleon]

May I ask you what you did for a living?

[shadow moss]

And counterpoint to Josh link, someone else’s success doesn’t mean success for you. I would always recommend bigger more enterprisey related like Java/C#

[shadow moss]

Google switch to OpenJDK

[neon moat]

100%

[shadow moss]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/android-n-switches-to-openjdk-google-tells-oracle-it-is-protected-by-the-gpl/?amp=1

[neon moat]

i was a manual laborer and delivery driver

but not any more 😉

i dont miss the days being out in the rain

thats for sure

but a lot of hours and sacrifice, dont care what anyone else says

i had to beat people with degrees and other stuff

and ive come on a long way since then

ofcourse i dont have 5+ years of experience

but still have learnt so much

[plush galleon]

I suggested a relative to start with Angela Yu's training course on Udemy but they didn't like this one

[neon moat]

u dont need udemy

[plush galleon]

I'm talking about the fact that now the primary language for Android is Kotlin

[neon moat]

corey schafer is free on youtube and my highest reccomendation

learn the basics and move on

start experimenting

anyway, everyone has their own opinion of 'how' to learn

[plush galleon]

You worked for companies like Uber?

[neon moat]

no, im in UK

dont work for uber

but i work for a very big UK company

[plush galleon]

Isn't there Uber in UK?

I didn't know that

[neon moat]

probably, i dont know

yeah there is uber the app

i dont know about offices

[plush galleon]

I'll have to skim through some freecodecamp training courses for my Java classes

[neon moat]

or just use youtube?

[plush galleon]

I don't understand the last sentence

[neon moat]

freecodecamp has a youtube channel

[plush galleon]

I meant the freecodecamp channel

They have pretty good (and free) resources

For a broke student spending all his money in books, free resources are the Graal

[shadow moss]

Kotlin compiles to JVM

Java licensing is around Java Virtual Machine

Not Java the language you write

[plush galleon]

Then why is Kotlin their language of choice?

[neon moat]

i dont want to answer directly for @shadow moss , but the way I interpret the sentence, is that the languages Java and C# are used by big corporations, and hence good languages to learn

[shadow moss]

Kotlin is fine as well

[plush galleon]

Your reddit post makes me think that you spend a lot of time skimming though the web for free (or low cost) resources while working

[neon moat]

yes

correct

[plush galleon]

That doesn't explain me why they set Java apart

[plush galleon]

How did you find enough time to look for resources with a full-time job?

[neon moat]

i didnt

i quit my job and was on benefits

for a year

i was fortunate enough to live with a family member for a year

[plush galleon]

How long did you do what you did before programming?

[neon moat]

on and off 12years

[torpid shadow]

A while

[cobalt sandal]

c'est toi partir pas moi

[plush socket]

Im thinking of changing to majoring in computer science but idk if i can handle the math is it really used that much in a job or is that dependent on what job you choose for example im currently interested in becomming a software engineer. So essentially, will I have to be applying those math skills daily or is it something i dont have to completley get to be able to perform my job.

[glacial cloak]

Depends

What field of computer science/specialty are you looking to go into?

Some fields require more math than others

[neon moat]

and depends what type of software engineer field you want to work in, i.e web development or data science

[glacial cloak]

I'm in ml/data science right now. I see the gamut of experience, but at least in this field it helps a lot if you know the mathematical underpinnings of the models we work with

Especially if you want to do r/d

Speaking of which, I dunno if there's anyone here with more experience who can speak to this, but is a Masters of Engineering (1 year-18 month) degree comparable to a M.S. degree?

Although admittedly I might not have much of a choice given how admissions have been going...

[plush socket]

Idk I just enjoy the coding part tbh so id want a job in that field ima have to look around more to find the exact one then

[neon moat]

tbh you dont have to decide now

what are you currently studying?

comp sci im sure would be great as a degree if you're interested in coding

[hearty island]

yeah

[plush galleon]

Why wouldn't you have any choice? You could still study abroad

[glacial cloak]

oh admissions offers are coming in for the US right now

and my undergraduate was in CS

[plush socket]

@torpid shadow im currently in nutrition but i have found after taking a python class that I like this subject a lot more

[glacial cloak]

@plush socket are you a freshman?

[plush socket]

so im thinking of switching

softmore

[glacial cloak]

oof...

Which programming classes have you taken already?

[plush socket]

yea but i havent gotten far in anyways

so far just python