One of my interviewers specifically told me their big rule was “don’t be an *sshole,” they wanted to hire people who they thought they’d enjoy working with
#career-advice
golden tundra
white karma
I’ve done a lot of work that involves communicating with the general public and working cooperatively with colleagues
7 years a security guard and all that
golden tundra
Uh
First internship or full time?
I’ll share some details but I’d also like to keep it anonymous
Also, first offer or first one I took?
(This was in the US)
My school’s career center sent out an email listing out some internships that were still up for grabs at places where they had alumni or general career connections
(In this case, the alum at the company wasn’t involved in hiring, I think, and I had no contact with them during the process, but they had a sufficiently high rank in the company that the recruiters might’ve paid more attention to resumes from my school, which is otherwise not particularly recognized and often elicits a “huh?”)
I was given a technical screening to do over a weekend and sent in my code, and then was notified they wanted to schedule a final round for me which had a technical component and 2 general interviews.
As it turns out, a personal project on my resume got some of my interviewers’ interest because it aligned with a common hobby at the office (think something like everyone in the office likes birdwatching and I made a bird sighting tracker).
I actually think I flubbed the technical a bit (it was originally supposed to be in a db language but I admitted it wasn’t my strong suit so they changed it to an OOP lang, and it was pretty basic, but I could’ve combined two of my conditionals into one line)
As it turns out, their tech stack on front end and backend used a library and language I wasn’t familiar with
But this was, coincidentally, the interview in which an interviewer flat out told me they were willing to teach me, they just wanted to make sure their interns/hires weren’t jerks
And that they’d be fun to work with
And well, since my personal project coincidentally happened to line up with one of their office hobbies really well
That worked out really well in my favor
So my interview just showed a strong culture match
Hmm, not necessarily
I’d like to emphasize again that what mine showed was culture match
Like, knowing the relevant field will of course help
But that sounds like you’re setting yourself up for a lot of extra work if you apply for stuff in multiple industries
And if you don’t genuinely care about your projects, I think it shows when you talk about them
frozen apex
I got a second interview for an internship Pog. Advice on preparing? Would be my first development job
golden tundra
I do absolutely recommend personal projects for your resume though.
It’s a way to make yourself stand out and personalize yourself aside from the standard projects every student does in school
Also, if you did a personal project for every job, I don’t think you’d have the time to make something genuinely impressively enough to be suited for a resume
Like, how long would you even have before the interview slots were all taken?
For me, it was hard to motivate myself to try to code something extra on top of my existing work until I was even excited about it
(Side note: an underclassman once asked me about my resume and declared he was going to copy the general idea of my personal project once he heard about it and I’m still pissed about it)
I would say to work on those plans and try to actually build one
The things you’re passionate about will show a lot about you and it’ll help you find a good job match
But I want to go back to interviews for a moment
And I’ve found that gelling with your interviewer is incredibly important
In terms of moving on to next rounds and making sure it’s the right fit for you both
In the US, at least, there’s usually behavioral and technical interviews for CS
Behavioral is kind of universal across industries
So my rec is, assuming where you are does interviews the same way, that you ask someone a few years ahead or who’s done a fair bit of interviews to do a mock interview with you
I’ve done mock interviews for some of my friends across disciplines
Welp, uh, high school friends?
Family friends?
unkempt temple
is anyone currently working with or previously worked on esoteric 4gl languages (like cobol)?
How do you transition from that career to more modern languages like python let's say?
vapid jay
What are careers i can take that don’t require me to collect ANY sort of data from users? (I don’t want to go through all of the privacy policy nonsense)
silent elk
Data privacy research 😛
toxic grail
Only your skills matter, that's it
static locust
Hello all.
I passed the technical rounds to internal transfer into eng at my company, but the sr dev thinks i need more project experience. This was a senior dev that asked no technical questions, only about my experience.
I've since built a flask app that I'm willing to share with others. Its a property rating website to gain consumer opinion on rentals and so on.
It uses a postgres database and is deployed on heroku. Has some web scrapping, yadi yada. collects user data, so on...
I since presented it to the senior dev and he was interested but seemed like he didn't really care. I will have to re-interview again but that is fine as I am confident in my technical abilities. He wants me to build more projects, work with a team. But my day to day doesn't involve programming at all. Only after hours.
Anyone want to work on anything together? Can be fun, interesting, anything. I just don't have people to work with and learn from.
Feel free to message me directly, I am also interested in contributing to others work and have a decent familiarity with git.
All messages are welcome, i'm going to repost this for the coming days.
delicate bane
i mean it sounds reasonable for them to ask for a portfolio of projects esp if youre coming from a non-programming background, no?
static locust
Agreed that it's reasonable, I guess I was asking if there were any ideas of projects that I could work on or if anyone was working on anything open source that I could contribute to
static locust
i mean it sounds reasonable for them to ask for a portfolio of projects esp if y...
^
delicate bane
!projects
inner wrenBOT
delicate bane
i guess this isnt really what youre looking for but maybe it will help with inspiration
also gl finding someone bud. it usually helps if you have a general direction you want to go in
static locust
Ty rex, if you're interested I can show you my site as it is now
summer token
How long did it take some of you to feel like you were ready for your first job?
spark prairie
How long did it take some of you to feel like you were ready for your first job?
never for me 😐
vapid jay
So can you make money programming if your a beginner?
pastel cliff
So can you make money programming if your a beginner?
spell beginner properly bruh
vapid jay
@pastel cliff ah yea I forgot in python you need precise spelling
Happy now? Wanna answer my question now?
delicate bane
youre probably better getting up to the intermediate level imo
vapid jay
@delicate bane ok bet
@delicate bane well yea what do you mean by intermediate
@pastel cliff im meaning like basic stuff. Like print statments. Variables strings. Asking questions
vapid jay
So can you make money programming if your a beginner?
Honest answer is probably not a lot. And Depends who you go to for work, what the project is and where.
But that is if you are referring to freelancing
If you looking for a job like career then it’s different and you can make money
stray moth
Hello everyone.
I am currently in sophomore year(not yet started, 2 weeks remaining) in high school. I aim at pursuing a career in software engineering or AI.
I learn coding for fun and have completed basic python, started intermediate python, basic r, and intermediate r. Also we learn sql in our school. I want to know what all i should be doing from now so that i can have a good portfolio already by the time I apply for uni.
Also which all languages should i be focusing on and could you recommend some sites from where I can learn and practice to perfection.
high sierra
focus on a specific language, dont try and learn multiple at once etc, id say work more with python for now. software engi is pretty general and uni will reteach stuff if you major in comp sci so u dont have to worry too much for now
stray moth
ok, thanks for the advice
also, if anyone has done a double major here, i wanted to know which subject i should take along with cs in uni as i feel taking just one sub would not be a complete utilization of my four years in uni.
I'm interested in either phy or math, but many people discourage me from going for double, especially for phy.
If anyone could enlighten me, it would be great
vapid jay
Oh no not a fulltime carrer. Just some side cash you know <@456226577798135808>
I see but then you need experience or at least some knowledge. Most likely other people with this will be doing same as you to make side cash. So for clients they will probably pick the guy with a little more knowledge experience.
jovial sundial
What is the best platform to learn more about Python...i have covered the basics...more importantly, will it be helpful ?
rocky terrace
Udemy class I think,
thorny sparrow
What is the best platform to learn more about Python...i have covered the basics...
I think you can give it try to read the official documentations. Maybe some kind of small projects to increase your experience. Give you more interest to learn more
lunar osprey
can anyone tell me some good projects with Numpy and Pandas
i was thinking it could help me learn those libs better
vapid jay
Pretty sure you could make a stocks bot with the help of Pandas right? (I m stupid so i m probably wrong)
silent elk
I think everyone goes into uni dreaming of doing a double major but leaves happy they managed to complete one at all
delicate bane
can anyone tell me some good projects with Numpy and Pandas
literally any project with lots of data will force you to be become familiar with numpy/pandas
ocean ledge
@vapid jay we talkin indian money or real money
near ocean
Bro what
delicate bane
robust topaz
so what does pytghon do?
near ocean
A lot of stuff
vapid jay
Coding.
quartz aspen
I think everyone goes into uni dreaming of doing a double major but leaves happy...
during uni, I landed a job in python without any python experience and knowing only the most basic things about python
... and I've never finished uni. I might go back to just get the degree. but degree is not needed if you know how to apply what you know
ocean ledge
i landed my first python job during uni while i was working as a fry cook at mcdonalds knowing only that computers have keyboards... it's been 3 years and i still only know how to write print("hello world"), but that's okay because i can apply what i know
timber surge
Nicky: How can I land a just job? No university. Intermediate python experience
silent elk
during uni, I landed a job in python without any python experience and knowing o...
thats great but isn't relevant to what i was saying
Anyhow for most people university is a good thing, even if they just want to become programmers. When you're applying to jobs, HR will distill two similar applicants to: 10 years experience + degree > 10 years experience. It unfortunetly is just a barrier to entry, but is necessary
quartz aspen
thats great but isn't relevant to what i was saying
You posted your thoughts about ambitious stuff about uni. I was an ambitious kid and a student, yet I didn't even finish my BSc. Kinda seems connected to what you wrote 🤷
silent elk
maybe tangentially, i was just making a toungue and cheek observation
nimble flame
bztest
silent elk
bztest
quartz aspen
Anyhow for most people university is a good thing, even if they just want to bec...
It all depends on where you're applying to. When it comes to some big corpos, then they always look at the degree. Check Google job listings etc, they often require PhD...
I was lucky to apply to a small company made by tech people (after lots of unanswered CVs from bigger companies, my friend said their company is looking for someone). Two tech people interviewed me, asked questions about stuff and my cv. Then I got some test to assess my knowledge in some stuff from all over the fields they're working with (there was even a question about how to delete one character in vim! XD but generally lots about itsec and networks). Would they prefer degree and a badly filled in test or no degree and good test? I think the latter. But it all depends on hiring process - bigger companies will filter the CVs beforehand and just throw out some of them... (Though all the other stuff I applied to was for student internships and junior level stuff, which asked for students, not degrees... :x)
ocean ledge
just asking "how do i get job lmao" is useless
nimble flame
bztest
near ocean
Can you stop my dude
nimble flame
bztest
golden tundra
I would like to note at this junction that spamming is against the rules
I’m not certain if the same message once an hour or so counts as spamming but I feel like it ought to
vapid jay
hi I specialize on pentesting for 16 years
always used 2.6 till 3.8
and now i want to use or code in python
cool
delicate bane
ok..? is that a question or general statement..?
cyan jolt
night abyss
Hi
Has anyone here heard about western governors University?
If so does their CS degree holds some merit?
golden tundra
I think one of my friends has her CS degree from it
But quite frankly, I think she only got it so she could put a degree on her resume and so her classes wouldn’t interfere with her life
I can’t speak to actual quality
spice helm
im thinking abt taking dual enrollment next year as a senior but i have no idea what language //kind of class i should focus on. ik the basics/intermediate(?) of java but idk if i should instead focus on python because it seems more applicable in diff areas and im not sure what specific area i want to focus on yet
vapid jay
hi
vapid jay
Hi
Has anyone here heard about western governors University?
Looks like a waste of money..
delicate bane
im thinking abt taking dual enrollment next year as a senior but i have no idea ...
you can always learn both (even tho people say you should only focus on one atm) and decide later which one you want to pursue
also, they say that bc its less about the language and more about the concepts, which ig is true
modern junco
Hi
Has anyone here heard about western governors University?
You in Utah? Just wondering... I know a few people that work at WGU. They swear by it, which doesn't mean a lot a whole lot (IMHO), but... at least it's a NON-PROFIT school. How much is it to get a CS degree there?
spice helm
thanks for the advice rex i think ima follow what you say and dip into python. 😁😁😁
twin fox
Hi guys
upper mango
Hi! im an undergraduate senior highschool student who is about to go to college in a few months and would like to know if the use of python has a huge help with taking a college course in computer engineering?
Any experiences i would like to know?
hard plaza
Hi! im an undergraduate senior highschool student who is about to go to college ...
when I was in college Python for computer engineering is required
spice void
What is the best platform to learn more about Python...i have covered the basics...
I like Codecademy, cs50 for free on edx, and perusing GitHub.
upper mango
when I was in college Python for computer engineering is required
May i know what was python used for in computer engineering?
Im new and would like to take some practices on learning python for my college course
azure adder
What is python
flint yoke
is there anyone who uses python actively at their job? i wonder, what do you do at work?
silent elk
May i know what was python used for in computer engineering?
I’m a CPE, I mainly use it for scripting and tool automation
In university you learn it in your intro courses
wicked turtle
Could anyone possibly help me think of/set up a fiverr gig?
signal tiger
can anyone tell me some ques asked in GOOGLE ??
true harness
do you mean like, interview questions?
young smelt
do you mean like, interview questions?
yup I think so
river turtle
My work with video game console scalping got noticed by someone and they want to contract me to build a tool for their company their employees can use. I'm not too concerned about the technical skills required, but more on the contract rate negotiation. This would be my first freelance data analytics gig, so I don't mind undercutting market rate some to build a bit of a resume in this regard, but I've never negotiated a freelance contract rate before. Anyone have experience with that? I'm still getting the full reqs, but going in what's a standard rate? Should it be a first meeting discussion thing? Other questions a first time contractor should think about? I have a full time job at another company so of course there'll be the caveats I'll give them about only being able to work on it after 5PM, using my own computers, etc...
night abyss
You in Utah? Just wondering... I know a few people that work at WGU. They swear ...
well its competency based so its like 3000 dollars every 6 months and its regionally accredited also
hearty island
what tips do you guys have for getting internships
i can't even do the interview questions
delicate bane
get some good projects on your portfolio/resume? maybe study for the questions?
ocean ledge
if you can't do the interview questions no amount of tips are gonna help
just go over your ds+algos course over and over
delicate bane
people gunning for those faang companies. idk why tbh. is it truly worth it?
paper garnet
shadow moss
people gunning for those faang companies. idk why tbh. is it truly worth it?
Generally have they have some of best pay. It's also couple years in FAANG companies and you can move on and easily acquire another job elsewhere
delicate bane
so same reason why people go to ivy leagues
simple cosmos
My work with video game console scalping got noticed by someone and they want to...
Why undercut yourself on price? If you are good enough then ask for market rate. If the customer is still on the fence, then maybe considering dropping your rate.
modern junco
well its competency based so its like 3000 dollars every 6 months and its region...
Doesn't sound too bad... so, for example, you could finish in two years and pay $12,000. That's not too bad for a degree. I just worry about those people out there get saddled with student debt. It breaks my heart, for real.
rough shard
Hey guys, thought I'd post a bit of an update. I sent a message in here a while ago about a situation I got in where I was seemingly going to end up doing coding work for free, but thanks to you guys I am now getting paid over $20 an hour doing the work. This is the best job I've had, I love problem solving and coding in general. I just wanted to thank everyone who helped me out and gave me some advice ❤ appreciate y'all
prisma matrix
Hey guys, thought I'd post a bit of an update. I sent a message in here a while ...
Wow how did you get the job?
cedar dust
i landed my first python job during uni while i was working as a fry cook at mcd...
Please refrain from making such cheap remarks.
I'm surprised that you are not blocked yet!
<@&267628507062992896> Can we have some checks on these folks?
open patio
it seems more like a harmless joke
you can also ping the moderators next time or send a message to @severe widget to report someone
weary forge
I want to sit and tinker with GNU/Linux and write C/Assembly/whatever. What subset of tech do I go into?
silent elk
Computer engineering maybe
weary forge
I'm thinking more job
silent elk
Embedded, avionics, automotive industries are good places to look
Security and info sec too
wary pilot
Can anyone suggest me projects which i should do to get better knowledge of Python so i can start applying for jobs?
weary forge
@silent elk I see. How is pay and job security for embedded, for example?
silent elk
I think it is roughly comparable to all sectors of the tech industry, except finance/HFT
weary forge
I see
glad frigate
do people use python as a backend language for full stack web dev?
dry sapphire
do people use python as a backend language for full stack web dev?
yes
plush condor
nvm
vapid jay
How do i learn how to code?
stuck plume
How do i learn how to code?
You could start by downloading a programming language like python
If you need help to learn more about python here's a 4 hour tutorial that help me start with programming:
https://youtu.be/rfscVS0vtbw
cloud remnant
Add my linkedin! https://id.linkedin.com/in/acunxos
night abyss
Doesn't sound too bad... so, for example, you could finish in two years and pay ...
my only concern is would employers look at me different if i was to get a degree from western governors
wicked turtle
How long can someone get a refund via paypal? I am wondering as I did a project for someone they paid me, but I am not sire if they can refund it after I send them the code?
proud lion
48 hours i think
peak halo
If I am a CS student in my graduating semester in the US, and I am applying for a government job that asks what my highest level of education is that I have completed, do I assume they want to know what level of education I would have at the time I begin employment?
delicate bane
my only concern is would employers look at me different if i was to get a degree...
just have some really good projects on your resume/portfolio then. you just gotta make up for it if you think thats your weakness
peak halo
I don't want to put down "associate's degree" and get auto-rejected even though I have 90% of a CS degree.
delicate bane
and consider doing some internships too
vocal flower
@wicked turtle u make bots for people?
sacred musk
Hi i did bachelor in electrical and planning to switch my career to computer science any suggestions for career path ?
I am currently located in canada
ocean ledge
like, what jobs you can do? the infinite collection of software engineering jobs that exist?
shadow moss
do people use python as a backend language for full stack web dev?
Do people? Yes, is it most popular, I’d say no. Probably Express, Java and C# are more popular.
shadow moss
I don't want to put down "associate's degree" and get auto-rejected even though ...
Yes, but put completed date in the future. Also find someone who can understand that awful site and help you out. If you can’t, I know someone, DM me if you need and I’ll reach out.
peak halo
Yes, but put completed date in the future. Also find someone who can understand ...
I ended up putting "Bachelor's Degree", but the completion date of my degree is given in my resume. There was no way to specify a completion date in the form on their website.
sacred musk
like, what jobs you can do? the infinite collection of software engineering jobs...
Developers or data science
ocean ledge
it depends on your inclination
you can do either
going into data science does depend on your math background
clear moon
Developers or data science
You should research in detail and find a nice path for you note that in data science you also should have good mathematic skills then you can learn something except data science. sometimes if you want to earn money for short period etc.
ocean ledge
also, depending on the country you're in, true data science jobs might be rare
most of the time it could be shit tasks like sql querying and tableau dashboards
inner wrenBOT
Hey @restive inlet!
Hey @restive inlet!
Hey @restive inlet!
Hey @restive inlet!
restive inlet
Stupid that pdf's aren't allowed to upload..
ocean ledge
depends on what you're trying to upload
true harness
things that can't embed in discord are not allowed
dire pivot
What's your opinion of "elements of programming interviews" as a way to practice Python (instead of preparing for an interview) ? Do you recommend alternative resources ?
rough shard
Wow how did you get the job?
Honestly, pure luck. I made a bot to do stuff on a collectible database (assign ebay sales to items) made a FB post about it, and they contacted me to make bots to gather data. Came here for some help on how to negotiate pay, and boom, I'm coding ~20 hours a week. Honestly just kind of lucked out by sharing a bot I learned to code the week before lol
ocean ledge
next time, raise your rates-- 20/hr is honestly pretty low for this kind of stuff
golden tundra
If you’re in the US and this is freelance, then you also have to pay your own employment tax
(If you’re an employee, normally, you pay half of your tax and the company pays the other half. Contractors are responsible for covering their entire tax)
That’s one of the reasons freelancers normally get a higher hourly rate than employees
vale forum
😤 ..
tame hill
hey guys im a bit new to this community and i love tips and advice for being a beginner in this field !
golden tundra
You should probably specify how you’re a beginner
As in, just learning Python? Just started job hunting? Just started being employed?
golden tundra
I guess my first piece of advice would be to figure out what you want to get out of it? A job? A hobby? Freelance work?
And set your small goals/curriculum accordingly
tame hill
I guess my first piece of advice would be to figure out what you want to get out...
I would like to be able to build a decent portfolio to help launch my IT/Software development career . i would also like to be well versed in many things such as coding and networking as well as cyber security.
As funny as it may sound I started playing these kids typing games to help with my typing proficiency.
karmic steeple
@Gecko it seems like we are on the same boat. Im also a beginner coder and for me I'm planning to land a job as ML engineer
Also, Im practising usingKeybr for typing proficiency.
tame hill
I wish you the best of luck, and also glad to know that i am not alone ? lol
karmic steeple
Same goes for you. Yup, It's a big big world XD
ocean ledge
landing a job as an ML engineer is gonna take more than just code skills-- whats your math background?
ocean ledge
i mean, i know plenty of people with that background who are in the ml space, so it isn't impossible
but depending on your other proficiencies it's a climb
a goal you can strive for is to contribute to https://mlart.co/
having something good in your portfolio would also be something an employer would like to see when hiring
karmic steeple
I see.
What about the Maths and stats? Can I learn that along with the flow? Or just focus on separately.
ocean ledge
i can't really say much about that
karmic steeple
I had some high school knowledge of maths.
ocean ledge
i have a formal education in that, so i don't have an experience of starting from scratch
karmic steeple
Math is quite an obstacle to climb lol
ocean ledge
it is, but it makes a lot of things easier downstream
for example, if you're working on deep network that seems to be training slowly, you might come to the idea that your weight initialization is bad
how do you fix it? what's the fundamental issue that your gradients are hitting? would xavier initialization help you? how about a batchnorm? why?
knowing the mathematical intuitions behind such things helps
but anyway, you could consider a bootcamp at some point
at least just to get some basics down
karmic steeple
I get it. Thanks, it was quite helpful.
dry sapphire
Math is quite an obstacle to climb lol
IMO
a lot of the time it's not taught properly
it can be really interesting and useful
everything is connected
ocean ledge
on the contrary, i think math is taught perfectly well
it just doesn't cater to everyone simultaneously
wild salmon
h
dry sapphire
on the contrary, i think math is taught perfectly well
depends on where you come from I guess
wicked turtle
I am looking forward to making a fiverr gig, my main programming experience comes from web apps, mostly backend but also frontend, could someone recommend what I could make as my fiverr gig, that isnt saturated yet?
dry sapphire
I am looking forward to making a fiverr gig, my main programming experience come...
nothing much tbh
pine heath
How much do programmers make
marsh wind
How much do programmers make
It depends on country, city, skills, position and company
wicked turtle
Where I live some make around the average sallary, but sone reach even 10x above average
tranquil heart
i need to be in iit
muted notch
i need to be in iit
you gotta work for it, mate. it's not easy as you already know
vapid jay
anyone here who has a career with python willing to talk to me about it?
muted notch
go ahead
little scaffold
Has anyone used a professional resume writing service before and have any thoughts on it?
Is it something I should consider as a self-taught developer trying to get my first dev job?
vapid jay
can someone help me?
golden tundra
Is it something I should consider as a self-taught developer trying to get my fi...
I haven’t used one myself but from what I’ve heard, most resume writing services aren’t actually that good
little scaffold
Any advice on getting my first dev job as self-taught?
lofty crown
Has anyone used a professional resume writing service before and have any though...
resume is overrated. Interesting github account or web presence is many times more.
astral fog
Has anyone here worked or currently working as a product manager?
hearty island
guys here's my plan
i'm gonna throw myself into hackerrank and leetcode
finish all the easy + medium questions
then start reading stuff about machine learning
ocean ledge
but absolutely trash resume is :/
delicate bane
super red flag yeah
near ocean
How is anyone supposed to answer that
crude crown
what do you mean with absolute trash?
if it's lack of "sellable"/attractive experience, maybe you can mold your resume in order to make it more appealing to recruiters?
ocean ledge
some (subjective) examples of absolute trash resumes are 1) multi-page (3+) resumes from people with <20 years experience, with fluff coming from listing literally every single tiny step you've ever done at previous jobs ("built an adapter for airflow to connect to our internal datalake"), 2) ones with too many buzzwords and not enough substance (i get that many recruiters aren't technical and get too into it, but if you're trying to get into tech, cater to the hopefully technical hiring manager), or 3) mismatch to job (entire skillset dedicated to front-end, but you applied to a datasci job)
hearty island
@near ocean are you referring to me?
vapid jay
near ocean
no, there was some other dude asking the most vague, unclear question
hearty island
oh ok
hackerrank is very good for interview questions
and i find it easier than leetcode
i'm gonna do all of them
sterile vault
This is clearly a cobra.
I'm a python dev, I know my snakes.
hearty island
oof got em
vivid hedge
hearty island
i mean
the only way you're gonna make a lot of money there is by being a senior one right
orchid wagon
Where I live some make around the average sallary, but sone reach even 10x above...
WOW
hearty island
6 figures
that's my definition
pls i won't make money doing generic business bs
i need a skill
azure schooner
Any advice on getting my first dev job as self-taught?
Have some links to code samples available on your resume and assume that no one reads any email where you send your resume. Follow-up in a week and send it again when they say they didn't get it. Also I wouldn't bother with having more than one page because you're lucky if they look at page 1. (Source: Am self-taught and do this for a living)
astral harness
Does anyone have experience with headhunters? I was suggested to look for a job through them, so figured I'd ask here for people's thoughts? If it helps, I live in the SF Bay Area (California).
hearty island
why don’t we add each other on LinkedIn
or do people not do that in CS
actually no bc doxing
azure schooner
Does anyone have experience with **headhunters**? I was suggested to look for a ...
Disclaimer: While I work full-time remote now, I've mostly been a remote contractor. If you're in SF, your experiences may be different. That said, if by headhunters you mean recruiters, then I absolutely hate them and I go out of my way to avoid ever working with them if I have a choice. They're also the reason I don't answer my phone unless I know the number. I've never gotten a single position working with a recruiter, but they've wasted a considerable amount of my time, and I've only worked with a few that I don't consider utterly useless.
astral harness
@azure schooner gotcha. How would you recommend I apply best? Through someone I know in the company such as direct referrals?
azure schooner
My experience is limited in working with the companies you're likely to work with, but knowing people on the inside seems to help a great deal. I got hired for my current position sort of randomly, but at one point a friend at Rackspace tried to get me hired there and they basically wouldn't even look at me until he bugged them about it. For the types of companies I've worked with, I scoured the internet for them and ignored companies without contact information, because (in my experience) essentially no one responds to the initial application/resume, and the only people I was able to get anywhere with were people who replied to followups I sent a week later.
astral harness
Gotcha!
azure schooner
Semi-relatedly, the recruiter at Rackspace didn't show up the day of my interview to let me in the building and then wasted several months of my time by misrepresenting Rackspace's interest in me when they apparently had simply passed on me.
astral harness
Damn... sorry to hear you went through that :/
I'm about to dive into job hunting so let's hope that ends quick
but I waste too much time on technical prep
hearty island
my college told me to search for internships in junior year
so the least I can do is prepare
delicate bane
thats a good idea
esp if youre looking for a job right after college
even if youre not its good to have it on your resume
modern junco
I've been in Marketing for 10+ years... and I'm tired of... ALL OF IT. I started studying Python because I enjoy it. I'm in my mid thirties... which means I have at least 30+ more years to work before retirement. I figure I might as well try doing something I like for a change. This is Day 3 of my Python Journey.
azure schooner
I am a python dev and I started at 28
small grotto
I've been in Marketing for 10+ years... and I'm tired of... ALL OF IT. I started...
Dude, marketing is not that bad, so am I, partially, lol. But I am learning a program language to add another 0 to my paycheck.
modern junco
Dude, marketing is not that bad, so am I, partially, lol. But I am learning a pr...
Haha, to be fair, it's not... it's more my recent situation. I busted my ass the last two years and both my managers were promoted and they received huge bonuses (25% of salary).... neither for me... end_result = "totally bummed out and demotivated"
small grotto
Haha, to be fair, it's not... it's more my recent situation. I busted my ass the...
I hear you. Only way to increase your salary by 20% sometimes is by jumping on another ship. Loyalty doesn't mean anything nowadays, lol.
ocean ledge
Dude, marketing is not that bad, so am I, partially, lol. But I am learning a pr...
either you make like 10k a year, or you vastly overestimate how much tech pays
strange pumice
little trellis
Does anyone have experience with **headhunters**? I was suggested to look for a ...
It can work well if they approach you with a decent opportunity. I've had success then and got my current job that way. I haven't seen it work so well when you approach them.
spiral saddle
Has anyone studied through Python Institute? I got the entry-level certification and I’m working on the associate level. I see the professional levels are still in the making but I’m thinking of getting those in the future. I’m wondering if these are actually helpful in advancing my career.
hearty island
I’m gonna do all the hackerrank questions in python
then I’m gonna do algorithms and data structures
and then move onto leetcode
it is time to grind 😃😄
@lyric dagger what does this have to do w careers 😐
astral harness
It can work well if they approach you with a decent opportunity. I've had succes...
Hm.. I see. Any reason why? Assuming they have their own agenda they want to devote time to?
ocean ledge
recruiters are generally not terrible-- you just need to have your own selection criteria for them
vapid jay
any full time python developers willing to talk to me about python developing?
craggy wave
What would you like to know?
austere nexus
I am bussmann
trim trout
hello
little trellis
Hm.. I see. Any reason why? Assuming they have their own agenda they want to dev...
Can think of a bunch of different reasons but the simplest I bet is if they approach you, they have a job in hand that you’re at least somewhat qualified for that they are incentivized to fill. If you approach them then that may not be the case
hearty island
pls i got an internship at textron
and they didn't even do a leetcode test
can't even take the damn thing bc my mom won't let me go to georgia
F in the chat for me ig
near ocean
Not remote?
main parcel
...
hearty island
no
these guys refused to do remote
they wanted me to stay at an air bnb
how sus does that seem
near ocean
Pretty sus
hearty island
pls
i miss the day when there were career fairs
where you could shake people's hands and be like oh yeah they're definitely not calling me
brave fern
LMAO
hearty island
haha
delicate bane
these guys refused to do remote
the guys that refuse to do remote... 
hearty island
i don't even get it
they're such a big company
why are they refusing to go remote
very sus
delicate bane
i find that its always the...how to put this
another georgia company didnt want to do remote either for an internship
hearty island
which one?
delicate bane
im like bruh
hearty island
maybe they just don't believe in covid huh
hearty island
bro
i'm probably gonna get shot up or something
brown kid walking around in georgia
pls
smoky sail
lmao
delicate bane
which one?
forgot. but it was like a transportation and logistics one
delicate bane
brown kid walking around in georgia
true harness
i mean, leetcode skills are not indicative of pretty much anything
true harness
except leetcode, i guess
hearty island
but they use leetcode for interviews
delicate bane
just another way for fanng companies to narrow the playing field without seeming unfair
you know what they did before leetcode?
you dont wanna know
near ocean
Hackerrank?
delicate bane
no i just heard it on a podcast
hearty island
oh
delicate bane
hearty island
what was it
delicate bane
at g**gle and such companies, they asked questions like "how many XYZ would it take to fill this room?"
hearty island
leetcode makes me die inside
but i have to do it
otherwise i won't get a good paying job
hearty island
who said i was happy
time for another stupid college class that will not help me progress at all
shadow moss
but they use leetcode for interviews
Many companies do not.
hearty island
pls where are those companies
the smaller ones and startups sure
and the non tech ones
shadow moss
FAANG is not only employers
hearty island
?
true harness
companies other than faang exist
hearty island
yeah that's what i said
but you'll make the most money in FAANG
nah that's not true
true harness
you'll make 0 dollars if you can't get a job
hearty island
reach for the moon even if you miss you'll hit one of the stars
hearty island
duh
delicate bane
just dont lose your mental health over it
hearty island
i did another hackerrank problem
the goal is to get good enough to not ask for help anymore
these are EASY hackerrank problems and i'm still struggling
so that's how you know i need a lot of practice
delicate bane
i do the codewars ones
i like it bc sometimes theres some really creative solutions
hearty island
there's also codedojo
but i like hackerrank even if it makes me want to tear my hair out
delicate bane
i like seeing others answers. its like opening your eyes
hearty island
you can see it on leetcode
delicate bane
theres like 2 separate categories
points for best practice
then points for being clever/creative
umbral vapor
Hello everyone new to python here and want to pursue a career in devops. I've already tackled the basics and fundamentals of python self thought and I would like to ask what to learn next and what mini projects I can do?
scarlet rock
hey i was just wondering, what programming job pays good?
hearty island
software engineer
umbral vapor
is flask a good option to learn next?
delicate bane
security
scarlet rock
oh ty bro
hearty island
that too
delicate bane
cybersecurity*
hearty island
@scarlet rock pretty much any senior level coding job pays nicely
delicate bane
cant hurt
scarlet rock
i'm just thinking what to do when i go to college
umbral vapor
uhh sure if you wanna go into front end
what does devops really do? Do they work on front end and backend?
delicate bane
right now i heard data engineer is in demand
hearty island
@scarlet rock learn a coding language before so you don't get blind sided
delicate bane
what does devops really do? Do they work on front end and backend?
uhh kinda yeah
hearty island
if you do pick CS
scarlet rock
rn im learning python
scarlet rock
lol
hearty island
not fun
delicate bane
bro
scarlet rock
sucks
scarlet rock
lol
scarlet rock
anyway i gtg cya
delicate bane
they teach you that in school??
hearty island
if you want to learn it yes they do
umbral vapor
any good entry level jobs if u want to pursue a career path in devops?
hearty island
goooooooogle
umbral vapor
currently living in the philippines and job hunting here sucks
especially for freshers
hearty island
try entry level
hearty island
pls i had an interview w CUNA mutual group
and they started asking me all these machine learning questions that i didn't even know
hearty island
and then they were like yeah get a few more years of experience kid we might talk then
delicate bane
ah same
but DS is a big field so you gotta spread your net far and wide
lots of breadth
hearty island
dude you need to know so much
delicate bane
ye
hearty island
it's ridiculous
delicate bane
im not focusing on depth yet
bc ill get there in my classes
eventually
luckily
theres lots of free and open resources out there
for DS
hearty island
lol i'm not even a cs major anymore
couldn't handle the heat
so i got out of the kitchen
delicate bane
its that different persepective
also its easier to teach a non-tech person coding than a tech person to think differently
delicate bane
my last interviewer told me some of his best guys was a statistician
and a mathemetician
hearty island
oh
hearty island
now he does all this big picture stuff that he can't even tell me
bc it's so complicated
hearty island
no it's just stupid complicated
delicate bane
oh gotcha
hearty island
i never knew what my dad did
does
and he doesn't even like his job
like he's working to leave Canon bc they're a dying company
delicate bane
understandable
hearty island
but no one is gonna take him during a pandemic
hearty island
plus you don't just get big picture stuff at a company automatically
you work your way from the bottom ish
delicate bane
true
hearty island
corporate culture is just ass
delicate bane
what i heard
hearty island
i will gladly take a job for now just teaching kids python
but i can't get the damn thing bc the job market is so bad
delicate bane
they have remote stuff like that
i saw some listings
i would look for remote postings instead of local with that
hearty island
i found one on indeed
stray thistle
:DoggoKek:
delicate bane
the upside is those jobs are usually flexible
hearty island
ye
hearty island
you know
there's concerns that data science will automate itself
so all the jobs are gone
that's when i will go into video games
hearty island
true
delicate bane
for all the non-tech/business people
hearty island
so big picture stuff
delicate bane
usually DS are the explainers
kinda except less decision-making i think
or you can go in the other direction
maybe DS will become more like ML Engineers
the split will probably be there
welp. guess i better learn how to create a NN from scratch one of these days
near ocean
Leetcode does not translate to data science ability
golden tundra
I feel like you have an overemphasis on Leetcode
near ocean
Leetcode literally will not help you in any stage of your career
hearty island
other than the interview
near ocean
Not even the interview
delicate bane
just dont forget the other topics of DS if youre interested in that field. programming is only one component
i would say ML is the meat of DS
golden tundra
I don’t agree with mariosis
Leetcode has its purposes but I think people focus on it overly so
near ocean
Learn how to build stuff, no one's gonna hire you cause you can implement djikstra through memory
delicate bane
golden tundra
Leetcode is useful for getting you used to problem solving, but I don’t see the point in grinding after a certain point
near ocean
!projects Oh i will
inner wrenBOT
delicate bane
oh projects are probably the most important in DS
delicate bane
in my interviews, thats what we talked about the most
jolly furnace
just find sth ur intrested in
near ocean
You dont have to invent new projects, just do things people already have
hearty island
but i can't think of any bc i'm dumb
near ocean
Theres no shame in reimplementing something
delicate bane
just find sth ur intrested in
^ yeah bc then you wont complete it if youre not interested
jolly furnace
maybe just pick sth in the projects list
delicate bane
you can also add a little twist of your own
golden tundra
I’m not particularly amazing at Leetcode but I’ve written a decision tree from scratch before
Leetcode really isn’t a prereq to be able to do projects
hearty island
i'll do some bs w web scraping idk
jolly furnace
bc some of the stuff on projects is not exactly trivial
delicate bane
@hearty island you can always run a few models on some of this: http://archive.ics.uci.edu/ml/index.php; one of my projects used one of the datasets here
near ocean
Building a full stack app will give you miles more experience than some shitty leetcode puzzle no one cares about
jolly furnace
lmao some of the leetcode questions r not even special in their own way
hearty island
@delicate bane i know i've seen that before
jolly furnace
like yesterday i was doing some of their conccurency questions and they were basically existing questions reworded
delicate bane
@hearty island what about this one https://www.makeovermonday.co.uk/data/; these ones are fun for playing with tableau
near ocean
Also, leetcode with python is cheating anyway
Unless you do them using haskell, they dont count
hearty island
i don't know what to do w datasets other than clean them, graph them, and run models
near ocean
Its cheating cause its easy
hearty island
IT'S NOT EASY FOR ME
hearty island
i have
jolly furnace
i think ive done some that were literally 3 liners
hearty island
learn the math first
delicate bane
DS = ML + Stats/Math + Programming + others @vapid jay
vapid jay
ihave tried taking a course in ml but ididnt learn that much most templates were ready made and math wasnt really complex it had few equations
vapid jay
portilla ?
vapid jay
itook the A to z machine leearning course in udemy
near ocean
Pick up a textbook
hearty island
statistics for data science is good too
delicate bane
its clear explanations with exercises too
vapid jay
i suck at stat , i had the worst prof and hated the subject since , learned nothing
golden tundra
Okay
hearty island
the TAs were telling me i wasn't the right type to do coding
whatever that means
smh
delicate bane
y i k e s
golden tundra
It sounds like you see being really good at Leetcode as your solution to fixing bad coding skills
And that’s . . . not it
hearty island
no that's not true
near ocean
Leetcode is not gonna help you there either
golden tundra
Grinding Leetcode doesn’t really improve coding skills
It improves the way you think about problems, is what I found
hearty island
i already have made projects they're just not very impressive
golden tundra
It’s not going to help if you have issues understanding some concepts
delicate bane
Grinding Leetcode doesn’t really improve coding skills
It improves the way you t...
would you say best way to improve coding skills is making projects?
golden tundra
Hmm
Depends on what you mean by coding skills
Conceptually, I think it’d depend by person
I think I learn CS concepts best by talking to another person about them
hearty island
well that's what i do in the help channels
delicate bane
i think i learn best with projects
bc i need to apply what i learn
or else i forget
golden tundra
Well
When I say talking
I mean physically talking
That’s what helps me
Projects help me expand my horizon
hearty island
well can't do that now
golden tundra
And pick up new skills
golden tundra
But like
Talking threading problems with someone else and the nuances of them
For instance
I think that’s what gets me a deeper understanding
I mean, voice exists
vapid jay
i tried to learn python since two weeks through https://www.w3schools.com/python/ but idont know where to do projects
delicate bane
!projects
inner wrenBOT
delicate bane
good place to start
near ocean
Imo w3schools is trash
vapid jay
iheard about github and keagle but im not sure if im able to jump into projects with basic knowledge
near ocean
Use a book, theres so many good books
delicate bane
Imo w3schools is trash
i honestly hate using it but it keeps showing up near the top of my searches
vapid jay
Imo w3schools is trash
thanks ifeel like shit now hahaha
golden tundra
I think that’s overly harsh
I like W3 schools for quick searches where I need to check the name of a property or something
It has its uses
near ocean
i honestly hate using it but it keeps showing up near the top of my searches
Yea theyre overdoing their SEO and i hate them for it
hearty island
cute doggo
vapid jay
Use a book, theres so many good books
ok is there any recommendations ?
golden tundra
I’m a former CS TA myself and I’ll admit there were some students who I didn’t think had an aptitude for CS because I could, for instance, try to walk them through a logic process and put every piece of the puzzle but they couldn’t make the final conclusion and kept asking me, “Okay, but then how do you do X?”
It was very much leading a horse to water and them seemingly unable to drink
(I didn’t tell them I didn’t think they had aptitude for it though, I just gritted my teeth and attempted to make them drink)
vapid jay
+1
golden tundra
Okay
Bluntly
Do you really enjoy coding?
delicate bane
its a frame of a mind thing. i think many non-tech people need it explained in a dif way
like me
hearty island
yeah i do
golden tundra
There are plenty of tech adjacent roles that don’t involve coding
Like being a Product Owner or Scrum Master
hearty island
not some random guy telling me to do something else
hearty island
ok?
jolly furnace
what im saying is that they r not bad
hearty island
ok?
jolly furnace
and that there isnt anything wrong with doing them
hearty island
ok?
jolly furnace
some ppl look down on qa positions
cuz they think its qa
but there isnt really anything wrong with doing it
hearty island
just because i have trouble coding doesn't mean i don't want to code or that it's not meant for me
delicate bane
i feel like coding is just practice. practice with problem-solving. practice with logic. practice with etc. i know its one of my weaknesses but i see it like math. just gotta do more practice problems
hearty island
it just takes practice
i came into college without knowing how to code
that was my fault
90% of the kids who did well in CS during the first semester already knew how to code
golden tundra
It does on some level, but I also think that you need to keep your mind open for other options
delicate bane
i came from a different field so 
golden tundra
I considered being a PO or something of the like myself
jolly furnace
im just saying u can try different roles
vapid jay
ithink it depends on whos teaching , first time itook programming ididnt understand because of the prof but two sessions with my friend was equal to the entire semster but mostly because he was logical and that is way easier in explaining
golden tundra
I didn’t write a drop of code until I entered college
hearty island
congrats
golden tundra
I’m not saying to give up, but I am saying that you probably shouldn’t fixate and decide it’s the only career you’ll accept
hearty island
you sound like you're saying
i'm better than you
so i know more about coding
so you should try something else
golden tundra
I’m not trying to?
hearty island
well you do
golden tundra
I’m trying to say
It’s possible to do CS without having done it before college
And I don’t think it’s a mistake to not do it before college
But you shouldn’t get fixated on a single career
hearty island
stop assuming i'm fixated
ocean ledge
i didn't do cs in college, it was fine
golden tundra
I mean I know that, you said it already
vapid jay
i wished if i was able to learn CS
hearty island
ofc i consider different careers
golden tundra
But you certainly sound overly focused on doing Leetcode
vapid jay
took electrical engineering so not that far a way
ocean ledge
though it is true that for some people tech is not generally a good path for them
hearty island
i want to improve my problem solving so i'm doing leetcode
ocean ledge
but yeah, not everyone who works in tech started coding as a kid
vapid jay
Any freelancers here? (not hiring, just looking for some feedback)
vapid jay
Through Upwork lets say
ocean ledge
isn't that just slightly fancy fiverr
delicate bane
what are you trying to do
vapid jay
english isnt my first language
delicate bane
yeah but what are you trying to become
vapid jay
what are you trying to do
iam trying to get into ML master
delicate bane
bc your skill set will vary depending on that
ocean ledge
you should probably forget that java exists
silent elk
i wonder why everyone wants to do ML
ocean ledge
because they don't know any better
delicate bane
a graduate program? they tend to look at your cs + math pre-requisities, then test scores
vapid jay
i wonder why everyone wants to do ML
there isnt any jobs regarding engineering
silent elk
????
ocean ledge
lmao what
silent elk
i must be out of work
delicate bane
i wonder why everyone wants to do ML
im going into it bc its the grad program im studying
vapid jay
a graduate program? they tend to look at your cs + math pre-requisities, then te...
exactly but they accept if you studied science or EE
silent elk
ML is just so......boring*
- my opinion dont attack me
delicate bane
ML is just so......boring*
* my opinion dont attack me
ok? its just a tool like regular programming..?
ocean ledge
unless you're a script kiddie, then yeah its boring
its just... harder to get into than everyone is making it out to be
silent elk
ok? its just a tool like regular programming..?
i meant in the sense its a boring subject to have garnered so much hype around it
delicate bane
ye
its bc its associated with AI
general AI
and people think AI can do more than what it can actually do
for now
silent elk
our society puts too much emphasis on intelligence, instead we should focus on artificial stupidity
import tensorflow
ocean ledge
phew, and for a second there i thought we had real thinkers in here
vapid jay
I know but jobs isnt based on your skills in engineering , it through connections or sponsorship so you are picked to work at a certain place when you graduate school and then they will wait you till you finish your major , and if you are a fresh graduate its really hard to consider u
ocean ledge
glad i'm wrong
ocean ledge
no no, jobs are based off your skill many of the time
silent elk
who wants to work lol
vapid jay
no no, jobs are based off your skill many of the time
in US i think
ocean ledge
hence the sheer amount of resumes i trash in the bin
hearty island
pls i wanted to be a therapist before i started coding
delicate bane
pls i wanted to be a therapist before i started coding
apparently lots of psych people going into DS
hearty island
psych people maybe realizing that they're not good enough at talking to people
idk
delicate bane
but you see them going into HCI too
hearty island
i am good at holding conversations tho
ocean ledge
just what we need, a flood of people with no statistical skill in a statistical field
delicate bane
psych is surprisingly stats heavy...
ocean ledge
p hacking to the max
hearty island
i'm reading stats behind machine learning
delicate bane
unethical researchers have to publish or perish
hearty island
my problem solving needs more problem solving
hearty island
psych is a lot of stats bc they do hella research
delicate bane
DSM 5
vapid jay
my problem solving needs more problem solving
😂
hearty island
my parents told me that no one wants a brown therapist
hearty island
so then i was like how about coding bc my dad thinks coding is respectable
vapid jay
thats a bit racist ngl
hearty island
and that's how i started coding
yes i know
so yes
maybe i am forcing myself to like it
ocean ledge
coding is not respectable lmao
delicate bane
my parents told me that no one wants a brown therapist
its possible. you just need to have gone to a good grad school
vapid jay
come to think of it i never saw a brown therapist
hearty island
yeah they're very rare
ocean ledge
where do you live
hearty island
nY
ocean ledge
lmao what
hearty island
NY
ocean ledge
theres like a billion indian therapists here
marsh wind
my parents told me that no one wants a brown therapist
imo that's not just racist bs but also not true. You don't pcik therapist based on color/sex but based on how good they are because it's your health ffs
delicate bane
parents will always be stubborn
hearty island
said they'll kick me out of the family if i don't become something in coding
so i have to force myself to loveit
marsh wind
that's harsh
ocean ledge
east side of queens has a fuckton of indians doing everything
delicate bane
@hearty island at the very least, itll open up a lot of doors y'know?
vapid jay
imean being therapist isnt that bad but ihear they get mental issues out of helping people with theirs
hearty island
normally a therapist has their own therapist
delicate bane
whats it called
vapid jay
thats bit sad
hearty island
ok here's my plan
if i don't get a job w coding after graduation
i'm becoming a therapist
period
delicate bane
get some internships. thatll def help
ocean ledge
or you can just
hearty island
in coding or in therapy
ocean ledge
become a therapist
hearty island
no my parents will murder me
hearty island
what's HCI
ocean ledge
tech chances are lower than therapy chances probably
vapid jay
imean ican listen to people issues and get paid it isnt that bad ?
delicate bane
vapid jay
plus people are getting crazier everyday
ocean ledge
what are you going for
what is your specialization? any internships? specific roles?
vapid jay
so that's a good sign
enjoying it really a good thing + a lot of practice +bit of luck and communication skills = success
hearty island
i want to do data science/ machine learning
i have one internship but it has nothing to do w that
i have an internship w textron in the summer but i'm cancelling that
vapid jay
i was trying to apply abroad for internship but still didnt find and still searching
hearty island
what do you want to do in the field?
vapid jay
hopefully if able to apply ML in finance
hearty island
nice
vapid jay
there isnt much computer companies around me so im still searching abroad
hearty island
do you have an understanding of the math behind DS/ML?
vapid jay
im learning but no not that much
i jumped into a udemy course but felt that it wasnt that good
hearty island
which one?
i did python for data science and machine learning by jose portilla
thought it was ok but i felt lost after
hearty island
oh i heard it was good
vapid jay
they have really good tempaltes
but imean my programming skills needs to improve a bit
vapid jay
projects where ?
hearty island
Kaggle is a good source so you can look at other people's stuff
vapid jay
do u go through other people projects or is there like a challenge or something cause if there is a ton of projects how can u chose