career-advice

[swift veldt]

I had to google the name

[glacial sluice]

like if i wanted to get milk from a store i have never been to before, checking every labeled item to see if it is milk would be an algorithm?

[swift veldt]

yes

[golden tundra]

There’s so many goddamn ways to fcking sort things
CS is obsessed with sorting algorithms

That milk thing is straight up brute force

[swift veldt]

a very simple algo would be: how to find a name in a phone book.

[golden tundra]

Hmm, binary search is a pretty classic algorithm too

[swift veldt]

one could argue brute force is technically an algorithm, just a very inefficient one.

😬

[golden tundra]

I mean

Does it count as an algorithm if it’s not efficient at all

If we’re defining it as an efficient way to solve problems

Even bozoSort is faster

[swift veldt]

ahah

[golden tundra]

Okay
We should probably stop talking about algorithms Romsy

Not exactly career advice

We’re just getting philosophical

[swift veldt]

Career-wise, I recommended Cracking the Coding Interview, but maybe you have other read recs?

[golden tundra]

I’m gonna be honest, I have a copy of that and it’s helpful, but I hate written practice problems

So I liked the parts in the beginning where it talked about overall strategy and how to improve your interview skills

But I prefer coding websites to actually practice

[glacial sluice]

so finish my book, gain skills from projects, learn an in demand static language, read "Cracking the Coding Interview", then interview?

[golden tundra]

I would recommend trying to accumulate some CS stuff on your resume along the way

For instance, some personal projects on Github

Maybe a CS tutoring gig or something

Contributing to open source projects

[glacial sluice]

does the complexity matter for entry level stuff?

[golden tundra]

I mean, yes

[jolly furnace]

u know with cracking the coding interview some ppl come out reading it without understanding the math behind the runtimes

and it just becomes memorizing runtimes

[swift veldt]

speaking of, I need to dust off my codewars

[golden tundra]

To be worth putting on your resume

It has to have at least a basic level of complexity, I would say

[glacial sluice]

im making a text-based version of AmongUs for my gf's kid

i feel like it will be pretty basic

[jolly furnace]

honestly do sth u like

[golden tundra]

If it involves some moderately complicated logic and you have to solve some interesting problems along the way

[jolly furnace]

if u dont like making that stuff dont bother

[golden tundra]

I think that would actually be a fine project

It shows some personality, it’s distinct from course work

If it’s mostly a bunch of if statements or something like that

Not so much

[ivory laurel]

you can start visiting interviews earlier. just to get knowledge about questions and practice

[golden tundra]

As in, start going to interviews? They can, I just think urban’s going to have trouble getting interviews until they can put together a decent resume

And that can be massively demoralizing

For a similar effect, I would see if you know people in the tech industry willing to give you mock interviews

I think there are some websites that connect people to do mock CS interviews

[glacial sluice]

what do you think of Zed Shaw and his beginner books

im using one now, nearly finished it

i want to be a serious candidate in about 8 months

[swift veldt]

Never heard of them

[glacial sluice]

and i have about 4 hours a day to put in

think it's possible?

[ivory laurel]

yeah

[swift veldt]

It's totally possible I'd say.

You might not be FANG-material, but that's a decent timeframe to acquire some skills I'd say.

[golden tundra]

For that matter, I think small companies are much less likely to care about the lack of college degree

[ivory laurel]

i found my 1 job after half a year of studying for like 1-2h each day

[glacial sluice]

that gives me hope

[ivory laurel]

with some luck of course xd

[glacial sluice]

what helped you learn?

[swift veldt]

for me, it was personal projects.

[glacial sluice]

ty for answering my questions btw

[swift veldt]

like, find something you like and try to implement something related to it.

[ivory laurel]

I agree. writing code is the most important thing here

[glacial sluice]

ill get back to it then

thanks everyone

[twin lance]

Hey guys just recently created a blog post detailing my experience as an undergraduate AI researcher for 2 years. Message me with any questions would love to help in anyway I can!
https://beehired.io/articles/my-experience-as-an-ai-researcher

[delicate bane]

interesting read

if youre on-the fence about research

for me, i knew research wasnt for me so masters route i went

[little trellis]

You listen to TWiST @twin lance ?

[dense mesa]

Is anyone grinding python on leetcode?

[cunning turtle]

.i.

[near ocean]

Really bro?

[supple fossil]

as a jr dev, what looks better: being able to do a Proof of concept for a complicated app, or going through the whole SDLC for something simple but thoroughly tested and securely deployed/stable

please @ me

[near ocean]

Depends on the context? Ideally you'd wanna show people that you can prototype and create full software

[supple fossil]

well lets say i have a really impressive CRM app

but its more of a proof of concept

[near ocean]

You build a prototype and then a whole bunch of reports to sell the idea to the money people for bags of cash

[supple fossil]

uhh

im applying for jobs

not selling SAAS

[dusky glade]

I personally think that they're not the best resource and gloss over a lot of pretty important stuff

[dusky glade]

I would probably hire somebody that has deployed something and maintained something themselves

Especially if you can really talk up the project like it's a product when asked

[supple fossil]

but even if its not deployed 100% stable/efficient

like just generally violating best practices

[dusky glade]

Just do your best, if you know that you did something bad or lazy then fix it before you showcase it

[supple fossil]

i cant

that's not realistic

[dusky glade]

But it takes a lot of commitment and know how to deploy and maintain anything yourself, even something bad

Why not?

[supple fossil]

cuz i need a new job asap xD

ive coded myself into inefficiency hell

like 0% test coverage

code not modular enough

my entire app is containerized

instead of each piece

[dusky glade]

Do you have a blog or personal site?

[supple fossil]

no

[dusky glade]

You should make one and write a postmortem

Or make a Medium post or something

[supple fossil]

for what end?

to show to employers?

[dusky glade]

And link it near the top of the GitHub project like "Read about the development here" or something

Well hopefully they'd see that and give it a read

And understand you've learned a lot

And would do it differently if you were to do it again

[supple fossil]

yeah, im in need of a tech lead

[dusky glade]

But even if they don't you'd be prepared to tell them what's wrong with it and what you could have done better in an interview

[supple fossil]

that was the main issue

yeah i see

i guess it looks better on a resume to have an app with a lot of features

and be able to speak about what you'd do differently

because at least it shows scope?

[dusky glade]

More importantly it shows passion

[supple fossil]

like person knows a little about containerizing, or CD/CI, or emails

etc

[dusky glade]

They know you like what you do and you'll be around for a while

Because you already did it for free and for fun

[supple fossil]

well i did it for pay

[dusky glade]

Ah

[supple fossil]

its my current job

im a jr dev but im doing everything

[dusky glade]

That changes the equation a lot

[supple fossil]

i have no tech lead

im all the departments

[dusky glade]

You should still list it, but the approach would be different

You can't fix it because it's in production

And making somebody money presumably

[supple fossil]

it is

[dusky glade]

That's better even

[supple fossil]

oh great

[dusky glade]

That's the best reason to not fix it, that would look great

[supple fossil]

its the truth!

[dusky glade]

You just get stuff done even if some sacrifices have to be made

Pretty much frame it like that and you're golden

[supple fossil]

thank you

i feel better

heavy imposter syndrome

[dusky glade]

Yeah you're good lol

Just work on a good reason that's not crapping on your old boss

They're going to ask why you're leaving / left your last job

[supple fossil]

because i need mentorship and i want to work in an environment that understands technology

so that i can grow as a programmer

im going to waste a lot of time if i have to relearn peoples mistakes

[dusky glade]

You got this, pretty much paraphrased what I was typing before I typed it

[supple fossil]

my plan was to do contract work with, what would be, my old boss

[dusky glade]

Just don't get discouraged if you don't get call backs right away, if there's anything programmers are good at it's automating things so don't take it personally if you're getting filtered out algorithmically or lost in the thousands of applications submitted via web scraping

[supple fossil]

but idk if thats worth mentoining

just to maintain the codebase

[dusky glade]

I mean if it's really atrocious just emphasize your business skills really

[supple fossil]

and learn sre

im a pretty good analyst too

[dusky glade]

That's what companies ultimately care about, prove to them you can make them money

Nobody actually cares how ugly anything is if it keeps the money coming in

[jolly furnace]

intrestingly i read sth that claimed that when code gets ugly it gets exponentially harder for companies to add more features

[supple fossil]

LMAO

ITS TRUE

[jolly furnace]

until the software is just way to expensive to keep and things go down the drain

[supple fossil]

you need to refactor

as often as possible, or just do it better the first time.

but design and business needs are opposite

[dusky glade]

Yeah, but really it's ok the company to provide resources and time set aside for long term success

[supple fossil]

telling my boss i need to refactor is like talking to a wall

[dusky glade]

Yeah, can't help that. Codebases get ugly if they're not cleaned up frequently

And it's not always the devs fault if it's something that isn't emphasized at the company

[jolly furnace]

yeah they claimed the devs frogot about good architecture

and were too focused on doing quick releases

[shadow moss]

Long term problem for next MBA they hire

[jolly furnace]

lmao everybody is woke af

[shadow moss]

it's just the truth

like if you take 2 years to write best software ever while your competitors are ready in 6 months, it doesn't matter

[pulsar vale]

How much can you make as dev? And how much knowledge do you actually need to start working?

[jolly furnace]

when ppl start off they think they can do lots

and they end up becoming woke

[pulsar vale]

alrighty

[jolly furnace]

oh that wasnt at u

if u interpreted that as the answer

[pulsar vale]

no no I got that haha

[graceful lotus]

wtf man

not you Morofet

Or Oui

[jolly furnace]

?

[graceful lotus]

nvm

[warm vessel]

some software engineers are really underpaid

[graceful lotus]

someone muted another channel and told everyone to take it here

[jolly furnace]

yeah might be worth doing a ping

[pine badge]

is there such things as getting a mentor for Python if you are just starting out...

[fading kite]

Should I take c++ or Python data science for the last semester of my 1st year in college?

I kinda feel like going closer to the metal honestly, but what is better to learn?

[vapid jay]

dude don't even go to collage for that

i'm learning form a book

go to a online corse

you will still be able to be certified as knowing it

or at least trade scool

xD

[delicate bane]

up to you. depends on whatcha want to do in the end. youre still a freshman so its fine either way

try to learn both

[gaunt sparrow]

Data Science

Taking an entire class dedicated to just learning the syntax of a language doesn't sound very useful

Admittedly C++ is a massive language

but you'll probably learn a lot more interesting material that is applicable across multiple different languages / fields in the data science class

[delicate bane]

i would say the same if forced to choose one. but this is a python server so we might be slightly biased

that said, data science and ML is a cool field if youre interested in working with data

also more bias bc in studying that rn in grad school

[summer roost]

How many languages do you know already? Do you know C or Rust or Go? If not, I'll be contrarian and say take the C++ class. If you're interested in seeing what life is like closer to the metal it will teach you something entirely different. After taking a class on a lower level language you'll see things entirely differently, even if you prefer to stick with higher level languages for the day to day stuff. Whether you find out that you love it or hate it, you'll learn it early enough into college to make alterations to the classes or internships you decide to take going forward.

Getting a job gets easier the more languages you know (and so does learning new languages, in fact).
And learning more about your likes and dislikes earlier gives you the most control over deciding where to specialize.

And learning C or C++ sets you up to dip your feet into hardware or operating systems, if you decide you like life closer to the metal.

And learning about how C++ handles object oriented programming, and where it made different choices than Python with different tradeoffs, will give you a better understanding of object oriented programming, and programming language design, and how to choose the right language for a job

[vapid jay]

solid advice above , on a side note good c is completely different from good (modern) c++ so even if you know C , c++ will still be something you will have to put time and effort into. People who say C++ is just C with classes are very mistaken

[tame heath]

yeah you have templates too😆

[half jolt]

is cs a good major for getting a job? I'm in hs and idk what I wanna study, I just don't want to be unemployed lol

[golden tundra]

CS Market is big and probably not going to collapse, but it’s not a good major unless you like and are at least reasonably competent at it. You shouldn’t pick it up just cause you don’t want to be unemployed
You don’t have to love it, but you should at least enjoy it

There are a lot of people going into CS nowadays and so there’s a fair amount of competition, but it’s not like, I dunno, the orchestral musician sector, which is completely oversaturated.

[weary marsh]

Hi

[distant kindle]

I am under 18 so will I be able to get a job with python and other ones like Jawa and django when I am 18 along with my other college studies

[swift veldt]

Jawa best programming language.

[distant kindle]

That was not my answer but OK

[swift veldt]

I mean, you've not really asked a question. What do you want to know exactly?

[dull echo]

is it okay to learn coding and its basics before I choice a goal and career?
Such as game making, bot etc.?
or i have to know my goal in the first place

[dark arrow]

the basics won't really differ much depending on the goal imo

[dull echo]

hmm

[dull echo]

thanks ig :>

[dreamy wolf]

It's never wrong to learn coding @dull echo, all knowledge adds up to your overall experience

[swift veldt]

It's never negative to learn a new skill. Learning programming in and of itself will help you better understand how you relate to tools you use in your everyday life like your phone, etc.
You don't need to want a career or to have a specific goal to find some interest in learning how to code.

Also, point of note. Programming and Computer Science are inter-meshed, but it doesn't mean they are the same thing. Learning a bit of both will never hurt

[vapid jay]

how much $$ you guys made from your entire programming career 😆

[swift veldt]

Most people won't answer this question because it is quite vague and also noyb.

[golden tundra]

And frankly, any number needs context like country, cost of living in the area, etc

[dense mesa]

Is anyone grinding leetcode?

[limpid coral]

#help-kiwi

[alpine turret]

$0

[golden trail]

Hello

Anyone here works in a big company like Microsoft or google?

@dense mesa how do you get jobs there as a graduate student?

[dense mesa]

Go on their website, read their requirements for jobs, apply

Theres not really another way

[vapid jay]

I have a questionI am really in to python.should I learn python or some other lang

[next crown]

depends what you wanna do

[summer roost]

Why not both? Learn Python first, then learn another language once you've got a good handle on Python

[dense mesa]

Are you learning python for a career?

[jolly furnace]

from what ive seen jobs that use python as their main language is pretty slim

its either javascript or sth related to that or its C# or C++ or sth related to that

unless its some dev ops related thing and they use python for tooling

[dry kraken]

for my engineering courses at my university we focused on three pillars of programming for a general blanket of engineering. Microsoft Excel for getting our feet wet assuming we knew little to nothing then we moved onto MatLab for seeing the use of programming for complex calculations with multi variable problems, and then we did python... which from the university stand point only was used for making graphs and creating mortgage calculators... the BIGGEST thing overall is going out and constantly learning new things about many progams and understanding them better and seeing their uses and pros and cons. Because school wont teach you what you really need to know for the work place that part is on you to learn

[dense mesa]

Which industry are you in?

There are plenty of sectors that only require python

[dense mesa]

School teaches you how to learn

Theres a reason kaizen is spouted by every fresh MBA grad

You don't go to learn skills to apply directly in work

It's to learn the process and pedagogy of learning

[dry kraken]

i see what you mean and yeah school teaches me about the stuff so i can further learn it and the process to learn

[dense mesa]

That being said, I'm studying engineering to be accredited as an engineer but not to work as one

It helps give you an analytical and abstract mindset to deal with problems

Which is why consulting is lucrative for engineering grads

[jolly furnace]

im a student @dense mesa

[fierce pebble]

high school or uni ?

[jolly furnace]

and what im saying is an observation that ive made though my coop portal

as I browse the 500 postings and find sth that i can apply to

as i have no intention of returning to my current employer after 4 months

[fierce pebble]

Can I ask a question ?

[jolly furnace]

only real issue im having is that im doing a lot of work on some rest api that they want to develop without much guidence

and im not getting paid that much

@fierce pebble ask away

[dense mesa]

That's extremely region dependent, as well as being heavily biased towards your school/institution

[summer roost]

ooh, co-op portal? I'm a huge advocate of unis with co-op programs.

[jolly furnace]

bruh my current employer during the interview told me im gonna use python

and im ending up using typescript

i mean technically web frameworks r super similar

in how they work so its not a big issue for me

@dense mesa well i can say that the job postings are rather diverse

[summer roost]

it's shitty for a co-op employer to outright lie about what they're gonna have you work on, though.

[jolly furnace]

@summer roost to be fair when they did the hiring process they were still planning the project

[summer roost]

Yeah - maybe it's not their usual MO, maybe plans changed due to unforeseen circumstances or whatever, but that's not a great way to deal with new hires.

especially junior hires who may not be comfortable learning a new language on the fly, or whatever.

it'd be a red flag for me at least.

there definitely are jobs that use only Python. Lots of data science jobs, lots of SRE jobs, some engineering jobs - though most engineering jobs are definitely going to want you to know either another backend language or a frontend language so that they can use you in multiple parts of the stack.

learning more languages and diversifying yourself is always a good call, but it's not completely impossible to find a place that'll hire someone who only knows Python.

[jolly furnace]

i think the reason that they switched to typescript was that they also hired some front end student and i think they also wanted them to do some backend work

i dont really mind typescript bc nestjs is really intresting

its just that there is significantly a lot of independent work and i dont think im getting compensated well

like ive seen some data entry coop jobs and they are paid more than me for some reason

[summer roost]

co-ops, in my experience, are incredibly useful for lots of reasons - teaching you what you do and don't like working on in time to change what classes you're choosing, teaching you how to work in a real world work environment, teaching you how to work on a team, teaching you what the value of your work is

I'm a Drexel grad - the skill level I was at when entering the job market, after 3 co-ops, was light years ahead of most junior devs I interview these days. Internships and co-ops make a huge, massive difference to people's skill levels.

[dense mesa]

@summer roost thoughts on grinding leetcode?

I have a virtual assessment centre for a SWE internship with NatWest in Scotland

Gonna grind leetcode out and research the company

[summer roost]

interviewing junior devs is really hard, because there's no general consensus on what they should know, and there's a huge variability in skills, etc. So as a result, lots of junior dev interviews focus on DS&A, because it's something that everyone agrees junior devs should know.

So - grinding leetcode is helpful to the extent that it will help you in an interview that focuses on algorithms.

It's not likely to be very helpful to you in an actual job, though, because algorithms aren't a very big part of professional coding.

[dense mesa]

Yeah I don't expect it to help me on the job at all

This is for an internship though, so I expect they'll teach me industry practice on the job

Just as someone studying engineering, not CS, I need to be on my game for DS and algos

[summer roost]

what kind of engineering? software engineering, or something else?

[dense mesa]

General engineering at a top uni in the UK

Which is the only reason I got past screens

However I'm taking modules which are either software based or for industrial management

[summer roost]

hm. The big topics that tend to come up in junior dev interviews are either OOP fundamentals or DS&A stuff. Those are the places to focus, I'd say.

[dense mesa]

I'm pretty set for OOP fundamentals

Data structures are mostly fine

Algorithms fine

NatWest isn't bulge bracket so I think I have a shot

[delicate bane]

good luck

[ebon sun]

What would help on the actual job itself? Just experience? Or does it really just depend on the job itself? Just curious and wanted to fire off kind of an abstract question.

[summer roost]

hm. git, OOP design, teamwork, requirements analysis... reading lots of code to gain an understanding of design patterns.

[dense mesa]

@delicate bane thank you 😁

[dense mesa]

Building software the user wants

[ebon sun]

Thanks! I appreciate the input.

[ebon sun]

Makes sense, thanks! 👍

[delicate bane]

how do people feel about code portfolios

[summer roost]

I think hiring managers don't spend more than a minute or two looking at them, generally. They're necessary if you don't have a degree, because they let you prove that you have written reasonably large projects, but not very useful beyond that. Maybe for an extremely competitive company, someone will spend more than 2 minutes browsing your github to decide if you're worth interviewing or not. But at most companies, 2 minutes is probably an upper bound.

[delicate bane]

i might be biased but i think i see it more in data science/ml engineering jobs or at least its talked about more

[summer roost]

could be; that's not the area I work in so they may be more important there.

[delicate bane]

im also trying to figure out if its easier to aim for a data scientist role first and then go for ml engineer afterwards

i guess well see how competitive the market is

im hoping having a ML portfolio full of projects would help me

now to actually do those projects

[summer roost]

I'm an ML skeptic. I think there's much more interest in ML than there is use for ML.

it's certainly not useless, but it's only useful in relatively specific situations.

[delicate bane]

agreed

when people mean AI/ML, most certainly they just mean data science

and using data to make smart decisions

which is kinda obvious

but youd be surprised

also you cant do ML without a strong base

if your data is garbage...garbage in, garbage out

[summer roost]

I like that diagram, and agree completely.

https://m.xkcd.com/1838/

I think lots of people want to do AI and ML because Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning sound cool - and they are, but they're not the right tool for most jobs, and they never will be.

[delicate bane]

yep yep

companies think they can skip the whole pyramid qnd start using ML algorithms to solve everything but if you dont even have basic metrics -- if youre not even COLLECTING the right points of data....

[jolly furnace]

u know ive been reading posts recently about companies doing this strategy where they are looking for someone with a specific skill to do sth bc they dont have anyone currently with that skill set so they hire a coop student instead of an actual dev bc they can pay them less

and then the coop student gets about no mentorship and has to step up from being a jr dev and handle the project themselves

about the data science data diagram. the company that im working for rn plans to do image processing and stats stuff and i have to make some pretty big decisions on how to store the collected data and rn the ppl who do the data collection seem to have no definite standard in a data collection form

and i just remembered @fierce pebble u said u were gonna ask sth

i cant remember if u did

[jolly furnace]

ah ic wait lmao

[fierce pebble]

Haha

[jolly furnace]

msg gone

[fierce pebble]

mistake

[jolly furnace]

lmao

[fierce pebble]

you were in a conservation so I don't want to interrupt.before my question I want to mention something I am doing coding as a hobby and entertainment but people around me and some of my friends claim it's the future job and it is well paid and some cliches.
Do you think that programing is the future of job ?
are there any programmers work in factory(chip,PCB etc) ?
How someone in earth get a job without a university degree ? I encountered this only in programing sector
is Math a factor for being a good programmer ? if not why cause I have solved and done many mathemetical calculation in pytyhon
thx for your answer

[summer roost]

That's a lot of different questions, but... If you enjoy programming, you should consider it as a job - the best jobs are things that you wouldn't get bored of doing day after day. It is a well paid job, though there are other well paid jobs, and it doesn't matter how well paid a job is if you would hate doing that job. There are programmers who work in chip and PCB design - if that's what you're interested in, it's easier to start from an electrical engineering degree than from a computer science degree. It's possible to get a job without a university degree because there's a shortage of talented people. If you're more talented than an average university graduate, you might be able to get a job even without a degree, just by looking more appealing to a company than an average graduate would be. And - math is used heavily in some types of programming - like data science - but not in all types.

for what it's worth, while it's possible to get a job without a degree, it's much more difficult than getting a job with a degree. Some places will be willing to give someone without a degree a shot, but some won't, and you'll be competing with people who spent several years learning computer science.

[supple fossil]

but what if you're self taught and you already landed a programming gig. Does your statement still hold true? Or at this point would the employer look at your portfolio

[summer roost]

Depends on the gig, I guess. I'd say that being self taught is going to be an impediment for any job where they would care about your college GPA. That's probably only relevant for your first 5 years after college or less, maybe.

by the time you've got a proven track record and several years of real world job experience, it probably doesn't matter nearly as much. But it will be a permanent handicap to your salary, from what I understand.

that is: your salary for your first job will likely be lower than the salary for a college grad for their first job. Your salary 10 years into your career will likely be lower than the salary for a college grad 10 years into theirs. And so on.

and it will make it harder to jump from one job to another, because there's a smaller pool of job opportunities available to you (there are companies that will not hire someone without a degree, period) - and since the single best way to get a raise is to move to another company, being self-taught hurts your salary in that way as well.

[supple fossil]

i dont understand why 10 years in there's a salary difference

given that most of programming is self teaching

[summer roost]

several reasons. One is that, if your first salary is 40% lower than someone with a college degree, then - even assuming everyone, whether with or without a college degree, gets a 5% raise every year - after 4 years, when they're graduating college, you're making .6 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 == 73% of their salary. And if everyone gets 5% raises from that point on, you'll never catch up. Another is that the lack of a degree means you have less leverage, and companies know that. So you'll probably actually get lower raises than someone with a degree - someone with a degree has more opportunities to leave for another company, so - given that the company has a limited amount of money to spend on retaining talent - it's rational from the company's point of view to allocate more of that money to retaining someone who has more opportunity to leave than to retaining someone who has less opportunity to leave.

[supple fossil]

riiiiiight

your last sentence

consider it from a $ standpoint

[summer roost]

I mean, yeah - you and the company are at opposite sides of the negotiation. They want the most talent for the least money, and you want the most money for your level of talent - more or less.

I mean, there's other factors involved too, but those are big factors on both sides.

[supple fossil]

- it's rational from the company's point of view to allocate more of that money to retaining someone who has more opportunity to leave than to retaining someone who has less opportunity to leave. I don't know if that makes sense, sounds like it would be more incentive for the company to retain cheaper talent, all things being equal

[summer roost]

if the company wants to retain both people, and they have $10,000 to do that with, then they're likely to spend more than $5k on the person who's more likely to leave, and less than $5k on the person who's less likely to leave.

[supple fossil]

but a degree

[summer roost]

consider that training a new person up probably costs more than $10k - in fact, it's probably more on the order of $50k to $100k to train someone up to being an independent developer. So they want to retain both, but they know they have to try harder for one.

[supple fossil]

but a degree

[golden tundra]

Okay, look at it this way

[supple fossil]

i just take issue with the degree statement

all things being equal

[golden tundra]

A degree is seen as a qualification

[supple fossil]

right but

at year 10

youre not working witht he same technologies

[golden tundra]

I’m getting there

[supple fossil]

sounds like there's no consensus

[golden tundra]

Having a CS degree or related degree says you’ve spent 4 years learning about CS related things and you’ve been certified by multiple other people as competent

So then you’re seen as more qualified when you start out than someone with no degree

So you’re more likely to get a higher salary than someone with no degree

[supple fossil]

so bill gates is less attractive an employee

than zuckerberg

youd pay zuckerberg more

to retain him

[golden tundra]

Someone with no degree is going to have fewer opportunities and so will have fewer options and may have to settle
A lot of companies will base the salary they offer you off your current salary

So while both will advance in their careers, the pay disparity remains

[summer roost]

Definitely. But you're thinking about raises in the wrong way. No one pays you exactly what you're worth. People will pay you enough to acquire your talent. So even if you're exactly as talented as a college grad 10 years after college, they know that they can acquire you for paying you 10% more than your current job, and your current job knows they can acquire you for paying 10% more than your previous job, and so on the whole way back. And the same for a college grad. So, the fact that their starting value was higher, and the raises were commensurate for both of you, means you'll always be lower.

[golden tundra]

After like 10 years, people care significantly less about the degree

But they may still be looking at your past salaries

Which were based off no degree

[supple fossil]

how do they have knowledge

of your current salary

[golden tundra]

They’ll ask you

They may ask you to provide a paystub to verify

[supple fossil]

what????

ive never heard of that

[golden tundra]

I’ve heard of it plenty

[supple fossil]

wow

[golden tundra]

Some states have now made this illegal

[supple fossil]

thats literally extortion'

[golden tundra]

No . . . it isn’t?

It’s not a great practice

But it’s not extortion

[summer roost]

They'll ask you what you expect to make, and even if you lie, you'll still probably be behind.

If you aim for a 50% raise from one job to the next, you're probably not going to get it.

[golden tundra]

They’re not threatening you to make you give them your pay stub

[supple fossil]

it's implicit

[golden tundra]

The same way a landlord/lady (is there a concise single word for this?) isn’t extorting you if they want proof you’re making enough money to rent an apartment

The landlord/lady had a better reason but

[dim pelican]

Not related to tech but I actually got a 50 percent raise from one job to another lol.

[golden tundra]

It’s not extortion to say, “We need pay verification to proceed with the process.”

[supple fossil]

it's an if else

[golden tundra]

They’re not going to break your kneecaps if you don’t tell them how much you make

[summer roost]

the simple fact of the matter is that, once you're on the market, you're going to need to figure out how much your talents are worth. And you're not going to have a lot to base that on. By and large, you'll decide that what your talents are worth is based on what companies you've worked for previously are willing to pay you, and thinking "I'm worth more than this". Which is... exactly what the other companies are doing.

[golden tundra]

And honestly, you can push back

You can say you don’t want to

They might not consider you for the role anymore

Or they might accept it

And proceed

But I really don’t think it counts as extortion

[summer roost]

for what it's worth, most companies don't ask what you're making anymore. Most ask what you expect to make.

[golden tundra]

They’re not going to hurt you if you don’t do what they say

[summer roost]

It's not extortion, it's a negotiation, and you have less leverage than you think.

[golden tundra]

I think it varies a lot, but I’ve definitely heard of pay verification being a practice

I agree with godlygeek in that it’s also pretty common to ask about what you expect to make

And that might be becoming more common

Also

I do think people without a college degree are also at a disadvantage because they have fewer resources to draw upon to figure out if the pay offered is fair

If you go to college and get a CS degree, you can consult your classmates

[summer roost]

that's very, very true.

[fallen dew]

In some states in the US it is illegal for them to ask for your current salary. HR departments are accustomed to inform hiring managers and won’t do it in those states. I think Cali, NY, and IL all have that

[golden tundra]

But people without a degree have to figure out other routes to assess their offers

[fallen dew]

And those are 3 of the biggest states

[summer roost]

even in states where it's legal, lots of companies won't, because they think it reflects badly on them.

[fallen dew]

Yup

[supple fossil]

because it's extortion

[golden tundra]

How is it extortion

I don’t see the threat involved

There’s no “this is a hold up”

[summer roost]

🤷 - this doesn't seem like a productive direction to take the conversation.

[supple fossil]

lmao

[golden tundra]

You’re not owed consideration for a job

[summer roost]

It really doesn't matter whether or not it's extortion. Some companies do it, some don't, it's legal, and it's something you'll have to cope with.

[lavish geyser]

I have the final interview for a job tomorrow, moderately terrified lol

[summer roost]

whether you like the practice or not, it will have some impact on your future salary.

[lavish geyser]

Even tho they basically already offered me

[supple fossil]

good luck @lavish geyser

[lavish geyser]

I get to “meet the team”

It’s with one of the airlines and I’m shocked they are even hiring at all

[summer roost]

Make a good impression, don't get drunk, chat about things that interest you. You'll be fine.

[golden tundra]

I don’t like the whole degree thing either, I think a lot of it has an unhealthy dose of classism

[lavish geyser]

I’ll try not to get drunk lol, high bar that one

[fallen dew]

It’s not extortion lol. It’s just a dumb thing to do imo. It gives the interviewee the idea that the employer is saying “Hey, tel us how much money you currently make so we can give you a little bit more so you change jobs, but by still keeping our costs down as much as possible.”

[golden tundra]

But I see the reason why it’s like that

For someone with no degree, there’s significantly less verification of skill

[supple fossil]

i mean

[golden tundra]

You’re taking a bigger gamble if you offer them a job

[summer roost]

sometimes "meet the team" involves going out to lunch. Don't order drinks if others don't, and don't get more drunk than the current team. It sounds silly but it's serious advice 😄

[supple fossil]

degrees not worth much, just paper.

[fallen dew]

True

[golden tundra]

I disagree

[lavish geyser]

The paper is what gets you in the door tho

[supple fossil]

yeah, good for networking through university

as well

[lavish geyser]

It’s an x thousand dollar paper that means your resume isn’t thrown out immediately

[fallen dew]

Once you are further in your career, degrees matter less and less. Experience is what comes #1

[lavish geyser]

Yes

Gotta start the career tho

[summer roost]

nah, they're worth much more than that. They give you a network, they teach you how to learn, they give you a system of incentives, they give you a standard way by which you can be measured up to others, they give you a guided path to the topics you need to learn, they give you an inroad to employers via internships, etc.

[golden tundra]

A degree says someone else judged you competent in a subject
Multiple other people judged you competent in relevant topics
And of course you can still be competent without a degree. You might be more talented than some people with degrees. But it’s harder and more time consuming to prove that.
A degree is a shorthand that says you have a bare minimum of skill

[supple fossil]

most of university is self taught also xD

[golden tundra]

Depends on your uni

Mine certainly wasn’t

[summer roost]

I think that's definitely true, but that doesn't change any of what I said.

[golden tundra]

Mine had really strong project support

Of course I learned a lot on my own

[lavish geyser]

I’ll def agree that most CS degrees are basically useless for software engineering

[supple fossil]

:/

[lavish geyser]

Considering computer science IS NOT software engineering

[fallen dew]

Degrees are easy to get; jobs are not very easy to get

[summer roost]

software engineering degrees are better than computer science degrees if you want to become a software engineer.

[lavish geyser]

It’s great if you want to do computational research

[summer roost]

there are unis that offer SE degrees.

[lavish geyser]

In the US those are CC

No top unis offer that major

[supple fossil]

alright this was fun

[lavish geyser]

Tho they might have classes in CS that specialize

[supple fossil]

i feel way worse than i did when i started this

but anyway, good night.

[golden tundra]

Where are you in this anyways?

Uni?

[summer roost]

I went to a major engineering school in the US that has an SE program, FWIW. I wouldn't say "no top unis"

[golden tundra]

High school?

job searching?

[lavish geyser]

Interesting, I’ve never heard of a top school that did. My alma is fairly high as well and didn’t

[summer roost]

http://catalog.drexel.edu/undergraduate/collegeofcomputingandinformatics/softwareengineering/ FWIW.

[lavish geyser]

I’ve never heard of Drexel

[golden tundra]

I have

[lavish geyser]

I couldn’t find any state colleges that offered it

[summer roost]

It's a major engineering school, not notable for anything much beyond engineering.

[lavish geyser]

VT, GT, UT didn’t for sure

I went to Clemson and they don’t either

I didn’t look at private schools cuz i could never afford that anyway lol

[golden tundra]

Some private schools actually give the most financial aid

Some of them even have a commitment to not give loans, only grants

It all depends

[lavish geyser]

Ya but when they cost 40-80 a semester I’d need basically a full ride

[jolly furnace]

lmao canadians cant understand american tuitions

[lavish geyser]

I mean that’s for a private school

Which is hella expensive anywhere

[jolly furnace]

it isnt cheap for international students

[lavish geyser]

I’d be willing to bet Canadian private schools are similarly pricy

[jolly furnace]

like 40-80k for classes?

[lavish geyser]

For a year ya

[jolly furnace]

holy

[lavish geyser]

For a private school

It’s a fuck ton

[jolly furnace]

yeah

[lavish geyser]

People have rich parents

[summer roost]

regardless - even though Computer Science doesn't prepare you super well for a job as a software developer, it winds up not mattering much. Because most people who get into being a professional developer do it via a computer science degree, companies who want software developers are set up to train Computer Science graduates up to become software developers.

[lavish geyser]

I’m not denying American uni is expensive but it’s def not AS bad on avg as it’s made out to be

[jolly furnace]

im paying 7k for 2 semesters for classes

literally cant imagine 40k

[lavish geyser]

I paid 8.5k for 2 semesters in the states

If you stay in your state it’s HEAVILY subsidized

[jolly furnace]

for one class?

9k

[delicate bane]

youre less likely to get a promotion if you dont have a degree

[lavish geyser]

You hear all these stories about American tuition and then you learn they either went out of state or to a private school

[delicate bane]

same reason why people get masters

same reason im getting a masters

i-

AI and ML

its pretty cool stuff; but it is overhyped by the media and others

ML can do a lot but it def is not a panacea

[jolly furnace]

yeah i deciding to take a peek at cnn

its literally computing matricies

[delicate bane]

all of them use linear algebra

well not all the ML algos

but many

[lavish geyser]

I considered going for a PHD in language theory

But i like money

[jolly furnace]

i will say that the arguments behind the models are intresting

[lavish geyser]

And there aren’t a lot of jobs for “language designers”

[delicate bane]

dude

do it in linguistics

then minor in AI and NLP

[jolly furnace]

lmao

[lavish geyser]

I strongly considered it

I just hate school

It grinds on me

[delicate bane]

its a growing field: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_language_processing

[lavish geyser]

Ohh i know

Nlp is fascinating

[delicate bane]

all the big companies are looking for phds to design stuff

[jolly furnace]

im edging to computer vision

[delicate bane]

bc much of social media can be used in NLP

[jolly furnace]

bc i really would like to make some network to indentify pokemon

[delicate bane]

why not both

[jolly furnace]

cuz whos gonna check the pokedex

and do a linear search

[delicate bane]

we have a NLP class at my uni

but idk about a CV class

let me see

[vapid jay]

What's computer vision?

[delicate bane]

considered in AI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_vision

[summer roost]

Ya know how self driving cars need to spot obstacles? That's computer vision.

[vapid jay]

Ahhh ai image processing. I've seen stuff like that with tensorflow I gotcha

Never heard that term thanks

[jolly furnace]

lmao its cv but no nlp

[delicate bane]

facial recognition

thats also CV

[jolly furnace]

with the cs department

[delicate bane]

oh and we have a CV class kinda

"Pattern Recognition"

[jolly furnace]

maybe the arts has some nlp

[delicate bane]

youd be surprised

[jolly furnace]

i mean undergrad

courses

[delicate bane]

o

[jolly furnace]

not grad

i mean grad courses are much more diverse

[vapid jay]

I'm planninf to major in computer engineering. I love embedded devices

[jolly furnace]

in topics

[delicate bane]

oh apparently our uni has a certification in computational lingusitics

2 NLP classes

and 2 LING

interesting

something to look into yeah

[jolly furnace]

where do u go lmao

states?

[delicate bane]

computational biology is a lot of bioinformatics

which is a lot of R

and stats

and genomic sequencing

ive considered doing comp bio

since my undergrad was in biochem

apparently its easier for non-bio majors to do bioinformatics than the reverse

bc its easier for cs peeps to pick up bio knowledge

[jolly furnace]

if im going do some grad degree

[delicate bane]

than bio peeps to pick up programming

[jolly furnace]

im prob gonna hop to the states

it seems much more intresting stuff are happening there

[summer roost]

I know bioinformatics majors and computational biologists who are doing well for themselves.

[delicate bane]

do it. we have a number of international students in my grad program

and theyve been able to get a visa

through the program

lots of internships/companies willing to sponsor if you have a number of programming skills

[summer roost]

the US visa program is a fucking disaster.

[delicate bane]

time for a second masters

but this time i need to con a company into paying for it

i need to learn R some time to make myself more marketable

[summer roost]

big companies know how to play the visa game, and can get you a visa through ridiculous tricks. But it's really unfortunate that they have to.

[delicate bane]

at least for data science

you planning on data science too?

Go is another popular one

in this realm

understandable

ive already explored and wasted my youth so im aiming for data science for now

and well go from there

[gloomy wasp]

I’m a Young Kid Looking To Get Into Python

I Also Really Want To Make A Working Discord Bot

[delicate bane]

good luck

youll probably want to go to #discord-bots

[gloomy wasp]

oh ok thanks brotha

[ripe lance]

guys this summer before i go to high school im planning on starting with python

its my dream carrer so i thought i would tell you guys my idea

so what do you think

[dense mesa]

@ripe lance you want a career in python?

[vapid jay]

it's amazing bro @ripe lance go for it

[ripe lance]

thanks guys

[ripe lance]

pretty much yes

[dense mesa]

That's a very broad goal and probably one not worth defining at your level

My recommendation would be to just start learning python for now and see where you go from there

[tired scaffold]

You should know that only knowing python is probably insufficient, you will probably want to look into algorithms and datastructures aswell.

[dense mesa]

Part of learning python is about learning and learning to apply data structures and algorithms

You can't be proficient in python without them

[tired scaffold]

Yeah sure, altough, your knowledge on the subject can be very limited. You won't get in depth understanding of dictionary datastructures by using python's implamentation of them as a black box for instance.

[vapid jay]

Will i forget most of the stuff ive learnt in programming in general sfter the army?(thats 14 months of barely any programming)

[dense mesa]

No

You'll pick it back up quickly

[vapid jay]

thank god,

ive been stressing about it a lot

[delicate bane]

thats rough. too bad you cant program in the army

[vapid jay]

absolutely

[vapid jay]

go for it man!

[vapid jay]

@delicate bane i might be able to for like 1-3 hours a week

[delicate bane]

[sharp oar]

Guys do ull know any summer camps for cs?

[quaint jasper]

Hello from Brasil! I'm learning about python and pretty excited! 🙂

[dense mesa]

For which region?

[delicate bane]

good luck!

[raw socket]

You should go to #python-discussion ! They can help you to start with books and guides to python! boa sorte!

[quaint jasper]

Muito obrigada ❤️

[raw socket]

sem problemas!

[reef flame]

I've been programming in Python for about 3 years. I also recently graduated with a Bachelor's in Computer Science. Does anyone know where to look for a junior position? I'm really wanting to learn more with a larger team. Thanks!

[young basin]

how did u guys learn python, through coursera courses or throuhg anotheer source

[delicate bane]

depends on how you learn. if you need a more structured format, online classes are good

otherwise, if youre good at self-studying check out

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[delicate bane]

@young basin

[zinc oracle]

so i do know that python is usefull and often wanted in the IT field, how is it the engineering field? Is it as there as it isn the IT field or does it not hold?

[dense mesa]

Linux is used more for IT, and MATLAB/Simulink is used more in engineering, in general

[delicate bane]

???

[jolly furnace]

well in a club that im in

the engineers like to use mainly matlab

and sometimes a bit of python

they just want to compute the result

[dense mesa]

?

[dense mesa]

MATLAB has built-in libraries that are based on optimised FORTRAN which make matrix computation considerably faster

That being said, visualising a result and inferring meaningful trends is as important as computing it

[marsh wind]

numpy does the same afaik

[dense mesa]

Numpy is built with a light version of LAPACK

[marsh wind]

you mean that numpy uses reference implementation and matlab some of the more optimized?

[dense mesa]

https://www.netlib.org/lapack/

There are many use cases for numpy, but if an engineering firm can afford MATLAB, they'll probably buy it

[marsh wind]

also, does numpy even need LAPACK/ScaLAPACK?

[dense mesa]

It's already built on LAPACK light I believe

[marsh wind]

y

not sure... lapack is mainly to solve linear equations, eigenvalue problems etc. those are scipy rather than numpy...

anyway, we are off topic for chanel

[dense mesa]

These could very well be interview questions and are directly related to someone looking to build a career in python

"if we don't have feature X from MATLAB, how would you implement a heuristic solution in python?"

For example

[marsh wind]

to build a career in python
in python, nah, in engineering that uses python, or any kind of career that involves lots of computation - perhaps. even then, for DS/ML/AI usually you don't need to go as deep as this

more fitting queston would be "what makes numpy better and XYZ than heuristic CPython solution"

[dense mesa]

Python interview be like here's a hard lc problem you have 4 minutes

[vestal pelican]

numpy.linalg wouldn't agree with you. The docs also say they use LAPACK:
https://numpy.org/doc/stable/reference/generated/numpy.linalg.eig.html#numpy.linalg.eig

This is implemented using the _geev LAPACK routines which compute the eigenvalues and eigenvectors of general square arrays.

[marsh wind]

🤷 makes sense

I never looked into that for numpy as usually scipy is used for these kind of problems

[vestal pelican]

scipy has stuff like .sparse.linalg which numpy doesn't, but in general I think their linalgs are the same.

[delicate bane]

¿

sorry that was more of a general confusion than anything

[flint heart]

Hi guys,😬 ,,
I have been practicing python for past 3 weeks,
i am able to do Leetcode easy problems,15 - 20 min
I tried doing medium, but I am feeling them hard now
1)Can someone advise me what kind of companies can I apply for Data Engineer position at this level. I am good with sql
2) I want to know where i stand, and how much more pactice is need to crack interviews.

[little trellis]

@flint heart I am a Data Engineer. Doing Leetcode problems doesn't really tell me how adequate you would be for this job as it really doesn't have much to do with it. Do you have experience with cloud services? You said you're good at SQL, what sort of SQL projects have you worked on? Do you have any knowledge of parallel processing? Data Engineer is not really an entry level role. You would generally need to start as a data analyst or some sort of basic software engineer and get some experience to be able to do the job.

Is 3 weeks the entire length of time you've been learning Python?

Trying to get an idea of where you're at and how to guide.

[jolly furnace]

lmao when ur that kind of person that runs a 9 hr transaction during work hrs so everybody is locked out

[little trellis]

What are you doing that takes 9 hours?

lol

[jolly furnace]

thats what my mom was complaining to me

she said some person ran a 9 hr transaction that should have been left to be run during the weekend

[little trellis]

Jesus that's terrible. Sounds like the need a dose of the cloud

[jolly furnace]

she works for a municiple government so there is alot of data

[little trellis]

That explains it. Probably have to keep a lot of stuff on prem

I would guess

[jolly furnace]

i think they have to keep the data on their own servers

[little trellis]

Not that that's an excuse to kick off that job then

[jolly furnace]

wait i dont think so

cuz i think she uses azure

wait i think thats only for the asp.net core app

not the actual database

[little trellis]

Strange architecture it sounds like

If the db is in Azure should be an easy fix of loading another SQL pool or whatever so I assume it's not haha

[delicate bane]

this is why cloud will take over

[delicate bane]

what about data scientist? any tips for getting into that field?

just started my masters

[jolly furnace]

im not entirely sure but they have strict policies

cuz when ppl's property info are leaked

[little trellis]

What you getting a masters in @delicate bane?

[delicate bane]

AI and Machine Learning

but i dont think itll be possible to land a ML engineering job at first

so ima look at data scientist

and try to make my way up

[jolly furnace]

u know

[little trellis]

Very nice

[jolly furnace]

there is a lot of start up robotics companies

[little trellis]

Learn how to write good software haha

[delicate bane]

[jolly furnace]

always looking for someone to do cnn stuff for them

[little trellis]

I know plenty of data scientists who can barely code

[delicate bane]

oh no

i mean ig they dont use it as much

[jolly furnace]

if convolutional neural nets are ur thing

[delicate bane]

thatll be me after a while

[little trellis]

If you can code, write great SQL, and know enough about ML to get by then you'll be fire.

[delicate bane]

good to know

[jolly furnace]

the funny thing is lots of devs cant write good sql queries

[little trellis]

Working on a CNN based GAN right now haha to create birds. It's doing terribly so far haha

[jolly furnace]

like they would write stuff that isnt optimized

[delicate bane]

[little trellis]

Yeah, SQL is a superpower. Everyone needs good SQL devs

Everyone thinks they're a good SQL dev though haha

So how do you know?

[jolly furnace]

compaints i hear from my mom

[delicate bane]

SQL is the underdog

[jolly furnace]

she always ends up having to improve someones query

bc its too slow

[delicate bane]

[jolly furnace]

and she complains that ppl r stupid

[delicate bane]

the problem is its not explicitly taught so people dont go out of their way to work on it

[jolly furnace]

until u realize it takes forever to find the result

[delicate bane]

[little trellis]

Yeah it's hard to get good with since you literally need experience and time to get there unlike other things you can learn more via traditional routes

But yeah @delicate bane. Sounds like you're off to a good start. We need more people in the space who have practical knowledge of ML and can adapt libraries and models already researched and created to new business problems.

Plenty of space for people like that

These birds are so baaaad

[jolly furnace]

im wanting to do a similar thing

[delicate bane]

[jolly furnace]

but its with pokemone

[little trellis]

If anyone here has experience with GANs hit me up. This is uncharted waters for me.

[delicate bane]

its trying so hard

but good to know @little trellis

everyone keeps saying the jobs are going to disappear

in that field

so i was worried

theres plenty of stuff people have done and adapting it to a company's needs is what hopefully ill bring to the table

also maybe if you can throw more data at it

that usually helps

[little trellis]

I need to find more birds!! Haha. This is the biggest dataset I could find at like 11K. Need to keep tweaking the architecture.

Pokemon would be pretty sweet

[delicate bane]

yeah pokemon is cool

and yeah do it

[jolly furnace]

i first need to get better with cnn

before i can do pokemon

[little trellis]

And yeah @delicate bane I don't think we'll have a job shortage in this area any time soon.

[delicate bane]

literally from my text im studying rn for my exam:

"Banko and Brill (2001) argued that the improvement in performance obtained from increasing the size of the data set by two or three orders of magnitude outweighs any improvement that can be obtained from tweaking the algorithm"

[jolly furnace]

guess that means web scraper

[delicate bane]

ye

bulbapedia

looks doable

[jolly furnace]

lmao i think they only have like 1 pic there or sth

[delicate bane]

[little trellis]

GANs are particularly prone to finickiness due to architecture and hyper-parameters. Generally I would go find more data for anything else

Very curious about this pokemon model though

[delicate bane]

same

keep us updated dude

[little trellis]

They're all so different, I wonder how well it would learn how to create them vs just making colorful blobs

Maybe if you started with one type or something and moved up from there

https://www.kaggle.com/kvpratama/pokemon-images-dataset

It's small but it exists

[jolly furnace]

lmao there is like already 1000 pokemon

if u count all the regions

[little trellis]

Would be cool if these were organized by type

You could build a type classification model

[jolly furnace]

like fire type and such?

[little trellis]

Yeah exactly

[jolly furnace]

hm yeah that seems nice

predict the types of new pokemon

[little trellis]

yeah, would be cool. Not as cool as generating new images but something

[jolly furnace]

im reading stanfords cs231 rn

for cnn

and i dont want to do the cousera thing

bc its paid

yeah data collection always a pain

[little trellis]

This is my favorite resource https://www.amazon.com/Hands-Machine-Learning-Scikit-Learn-TensorFlow-dp-1492032646/dp/1492032646/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

Oh hell yeah! I found a bigger bird dataset

[delicate bane]

i can already taste your success coming

[vapid jay]

@icy berry how can i get a job with python
i would say i have intermediate skills

[icy berry]

well it might not be an easy answer. but you generally need to show that you have skills that an employer needs

[vapid jay]

intermediate as in, i did a uni level python course

right

[icy berry]

so having a portfolio will help

if you contribute to open source, that will help a lot

[vapid jay]

where can i find open source?

stuff

[icy berry]

well.. we have all our projects on github

!source

[inner wren]

Bot's GitHub Repository

Repository

Go to GitHub

[icy berry]

https://www.codetriage.com/

here is a site that lists projects that need contributors

[vapid jay]

right

and what they need people to do?

just write codes?

[icy berry]

normally yes, but it depends

[vapid jay]

gotchu

[icy berry]

find something you enjoy and know something about

[vapid jay]

i really have no idea how github works, is it something i should learn?

[icy berry]

or find something that interest you and learn about it

yes, you should learn git and github

[vapid jay]

right

i am interested in machine learning

scrambling courses wherever I can

[icy berry]

https://rogerdudler.github.io/git-guide/

ML is a huge topic and a very popular one.

[vapid jay]

and worth all the learning process right?

cause from what I have gathered it's difficult to learn

[azure bridge]

heyy I have a doubt.....what code do I use to make bmi calculator in python??

[vapid jay]

yeet

tygfuik

tyudgyuui

[vapid jay]

wdym what code?

just use python lmao

[warm perch]

hi!

What do you recommend for a reporting api?

[dense mesa]

Reporting what?

[wintry plover]

google analytics

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @turbid elbow until 2021-01-26 13:22 (9 minutes and 59 seconds) (reason: duplicates rule: sent 4 duplicated messages in 10s).

[swift veldt]

pwnd.

[little trellis]

@warm perch use google data studio

[gloomy tree]

It's really annoying when the client provides little to no detail about what they want

[hazy spoke]

yea

[lavish geyser]

i got the job so thats cool, if anyoen from our previous convo is around

[honest burrow]

im 13 years old and im pretty good at python so is there any way i can make a side buck or 2?

[near ocean]

Freelancing i guess

[little trellis]

Hey @lavish geyser what was the job?

Difficult at 13 due to legal restrictions.

Would suggest using coding skills to start hosting Minecraft servers or something along those lines.

[honest burrow]

okay thanks

[little trellis]

No problem

[lavish geyser]

SWE at one of the Airline companies

[little trellis]

Very nice @lavish geyser! I wasn’t part of that convo but glad it worked out

Have some money invested in y’all so hope you build some cool stuff haha

[sleek rain]

I've been looking for help on my Capstone final for Python Certification. Can anyone tell if there is a difference between boto3 and imb_boto3?

[half jolt]

what would you say is the best major?

[crisp wave]

hello everyone i would really need help from the developer community i am a computer science student and i can't afford a laptop so i thought why not ask the developer for help🤦 🙏

[golden tundra]

Like, among technical majors or just among all majors? Either way, I don’t believe there’s a universal best major

[lavish geyser]

ill keep this in mind lol

[golden tundra]

If you do a CS major but you’re rubbish at it, that’s more useless than, for instance, an English major that you’re passionate about and figure out how to market

[little trellis]

👆

[golden tundra]

There are a lot of majors people think of as useless, but people with those degrees may have better careers than people with the “good” majors like STEM
I think one of the keys is to be realistic
When you pick a major, figure out some possible job prospects with it that you’d be happy with

Figure out the debt to income ratio you’d get

Like, it’s absolutely fine to be, say, a dance major with the intention of teaching dance, but it’s not a good idea to do that if you’d have to go into heavy debt to fund that since dance teaching doesn’t tend to be well-paying

[shadow moss]

Statistically, those with STEM degrees do better then those without in same field

and those with any Degrees do better then those without

again, this is broad, outliers of course exist everywhere

[golden tundra]

But we’re not discussing within the STEM field

[shadow moss]

by definition, those who graduate with STEM degree won't be seen as rubbish

[golden tundra]

Not necessarily?

[shadow moss]

so if decent at fake it till you make it, you can do ok

[golden tundra]

You could get a CS degree with Cs in every class, just barely scraping by

And be absolutely terrible at coding

But you still did the required classes

So you’ve got a degree

[shadow moss]

Generally, you have to be ok at coding to pass end level classes

[golden tundra]

Not necessarily

Shove all the work onto your partners in group projects

Boom

Guess what happened to me

[shadow moss]

So ready for management?

[golden tundra]

Yes, I’m still quite salty

Anyways

That’s very much a tangent

[crisp wave]

You help me or not

[golden tundra]

I don’t see that as very germane to the question

Are you soliciting money for your laptop

Because I’m like 85% certain that’s not allowed

[crisp wave]

I solicited donations

[golden tundra]

I don’t know whether that counts as unapproved advertising or not

But quite frankly

What you’re doing sounds like a scam

[shadow moss]

my point is, if you can graduate with STEM field, whatever your skill level, you will likely have higher earning then most, so stay in school

[crisp wave]

I just need help man

[golden tundra]

Asking random people who’ve never met you for money is well

Very fishy

[shadow moss]

If you have an issue, take it up with @severe widget

[crisp wave]

If don't have a pc I don't go to school

[shut geyser]

check out Rasberry maybe, thoses are very affordable computers

[golden tundra]

The original question was from someone in high school considering CS as a major

Who then asked what I considered the best major to be

[shadow moss]

Sure, and I'm saying "If you think you can graduate, skill level be damned, go for it"

[crisp wave]

I'm in a very poor country

[golden tundra]

And I strongly believe that it’s not worth going into CS unless you like it

[shut geyser]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi

[crisp wave]

Cause I need help from the community

[shut geyser]

thoses computers are made towards people who have low income

[knotty siren]

begging is unfortunately not a career discussion

[crisp wave]

It's not sell to my country

[golden tundra]

You can have a perfectly good and stable career in a non CS field and shouldn’t go into it just because it’s a stable, well paying field if you won’t at least tolerate it

[crisp wave]

I'm in Senegal Africa

Shearch it

[shadow moss]

This is wrong room for this discussion Technical, this is for jobs and related to it

[crisp wave]

Sorry

Where is it

[golden tundra]

Unfortunately, without any proof of your circumstances and being a complete stranger to people, I don’t think you’ll get any traction
No one here has any way to verify you’re from Senegal, you genuinely don’t have money for a computer, and that if given money, you’d spend it on a computer

[crisp wave]

Photo I have posted

From senegal

[golden tundra]

Unfortunately, that’s really not proof

[crisp wave]

What do you need

[shadow moss]

It's also off-topic

[crisp wave]

My instagram or facebook

For insta

[golden tundra]

What I’m saying is I don’t think you’ll be able to prove things to anyone’s satisfaction. People are very leery of internet scams
Do you have any chance of finding a used computer?

[crisp wave]

Mo__Lamine

My Instagram

[shut geyser]

Don't post all your personal information on a server with thousands of people man, and move to Off-Topic channels maybe

[crisp wave]

Just for proof man I really need help

[molten spoke]

!warn 648641477853052958 Please do not start asking for donations in our Discord server. We do not provide aide in the server for monetary compensation.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @crisp wave.

[golden tundra]

Again, I really don’t think you’ll be able to prove your genuine need for money from internet strangers to anyone’s satisfaction

[molten spoke]

Let's try keep this on topic.

Soliciting donations is not on topic for this channel, or server, I'm afraid.

[knotty siren]

ty (y)

[crisp wave]

Sorry

🙏

[crisp wave]

Sorry man just need help from the community

Sorry

[knotty siren]

you can get help with your career here, not begging

[knotty siren]

aaanyway, this is the point where im at rn, just need a stable job but its hard to keep motivating myself

[shadow moss]

what is your degree in?

[crisp wave]

sorry i just think you will understand

Sorry

[knotty siren]

im actually an EMT 😄

[shadow moss]

paid?

[knotty siren]

but at covid time theres no jobs

[shadow moss]

no jobs as EMT or coding?

[knotty siren]

country ran out of money

so im taking a course

[shadow moss]

where are you located?

[knotty siren]

python, java, sql and im in estonia

[shadow moss]

EU citizen right? Maybe apply in other countries?

[knotty siren]

i dont think im gonna apply anymore, had a lot time to think about what i saw

[crisp wave]

any help is good

[shadow moss]

I'm saying for Coding stuff

[knotty siren]

aaah, i havent looked yet, estonia should be really good with startups

[shadow moss]

if you don't want to be EMT, then don't

[knotty siren]

im struggeling to write python rn 😄

[shadow moss]

if you could take cheap classes of any sort, I would recommend it (I don't know Estonia all that well)

[knotty siren]

estonia has the most tech startups per person in europe

so is good 😄

[little trellis]

Certification by reputable companies can help. Google, Microsoft, ect

[shadow moss]

and maybe look outside the borders, not sure how that works with COVID