or are you going next year?
#career-advice
summer merlin
acoustic frigate
next year
acoustic frigate
been spending a lot of time watching videos, in coding club now
just where is like a free space to work
i know theres the ide
jolly furnace
the knowledge gradually builds up
usually u learn by encountering a problem and u discover sth new
summer merlin
I'm a second year uni student rn
acoustic frigate
doing cs? 😄
summer merlin
suide you might want to check out software engineering programs around you
nah econ lol
acoustic frigate
how do u like that
acoustic frigate
idk wtf i wanna do
summer merlin
got into it last year as an engineering major
acoustic frigate
engi is cool
summer merlin
yeah I feel that
summer merlin
why you doing cs and not software engi?
summer merlin
Well because it's an engineering degree it's really about finding a practical solution to a problem, while cs is more theoretical
Also, pretty sure soft. engi salaries are higher then cs on average
acoustic frigate
i didnt put much thought into it to be honest, i just asked a lot of people which one they thought i should do and a lot of people said cs over se
vapid jay
Well I thought you needed a cs degree
acoustic frigate
is econ well paying? just curious you seem like a smart guy
summer merlin
is econ well paying? just curious you seem like a smart guy
@acoustic frigate I'm tryna get into finance or maybe econ academia
acoustic frigate
ill look more into se vs cs, i gotta look into what my uni offers too and what not, but i appreciate it and would definitely reconsider haha
in summary, se is more fixing and maintaining than developing?
vapid jay
cant a cs degree get you into software engineering?
acoustic frigate
im not sure my friend
this is all new to me, i just applied to my colleges 5 days ago
summer merlin
here at least, they're both undergrads
summer merlin
in summary, se is more fixing and maintaining than developing?
@acoustic frigate I think it's the opposite
acoustic frigate
Computer Science (CS) focuses on understanding, designing, and developing programs and computers. ... Software Engineering (SE) deals with building and maintaining software systems.
summer merlin
at the end of the day, it's all about what skills you can develop as a programmer
acoustic frigate
thats what i just read, i read about CE that was more maintaining i think ur right lmfao
i just wanna use be able to code and have fun with it while also being able to make the big bucks at a job
i sound really dull rn but its all good
jolly furnace
dont think CE takes as much math courses and models of computation courses compared to CS
vapid jay
Do you think I should take CS if i want to be a Software engineer>
jolly furnace
usually just take a look at a program and the courses that are required for that program and see what each course is about
then u can somewhat get a sense what u will be doing
from my school, the SE major is more restrictive than the CS major
imo just browse the programs at the school u want to go
vapid jay
veszeppa
last charm
Hey what are some good projects to work on to land a job as a python programmer? I'm getting into machine learning and hacking, but I'm wondering if there are other things I should be looking into. Thanks!!
forest kettle
Is degree required for me to build a start-up in software industry
wheat nimbus
Definitely not required for you to build your own startup, though you should be at least familiar (As in, taken at least a proper class in) business, finance, management, those sort of things.
forest kettle
Very thanks
Does anyone have built start-ups based on Python language tools of any product like applications etc.. not having much background in other languages, is it necessary today to have a solid background of other languages too or is Python enough. May be this one a noob question, but I want to know the present scenario of Python language in the software industry.
wheat nimbus
Well, it really depends on what your goals and product are.
that's not really a question that can be answered effectively for all cases
distant crow
I built a startup based on Python, at a time when I had virtually no experience of python
although I did have experience in some other languages
our stack was pretty much pure Python on the backend. of course, frontend is still Javascript, that part is unavoidable
I used to advise people to learn one dynamic language (Python or Javascript mostly), and one static and compiled language (e.g. C/C++) because the combination of the two gives you a good amount of exposure to different aspects of how computers work. But these days I just tell people to learn Python and Javascript (if they already know one or the other) because in many applications, this combination is very useful - Python for the backend or data science, Javascript for the frontend
forest kettle
Thanks for your valuable information sir.
vapid jay
Hi
I am a 2nd year cse ug student from a tier 3 college, I am greatly interested in machine learning and specially in deeplearning, I have taken the ml course by Andrew NG sir and his deep learning specialization.I am also good with basic algorithm and data structures(though i am very week in cp). But i have gained lot of info from there but dont know how to implement that, I just worked with very few dataset. I tried making a project using yolo algorithm but that was hard for me. I want to pursue my future carrier in ai field for industry, mainly development. In programming language I know c/c++ and python, for web development I have a little knowladge on html/css also but i dont like working for front end. I want to get a decent job as soon as possible for financial reasons , be it in ai or sde roll. So can any one please advice a roadmap?
neat ingot
@vapid jay check out kaggle.com. they have deep learning competitions.
Web dev jobs are easier to come by. Make a portfolio of ml projects and web services. Employers love portfolios.
red tusk
@distant crow learning C/C++ is still good advice. When speed is critical, python can use c/c++ or use cpython
distant crow
while that's true, people using python have an emphasis on speed of development and maintainability, and tackle execution speed through the use of other means, usually drop-in libraries
for example, we know that numpy is already pretty fast when it comes to number-crunching if you use vectorized calculations, but data scientists working in python, instead of porting their code to C/C++ would instead access faster speeds using things like cupy (drop-in replacement for numpy using CUDA), numba (byte-compiler with numpy bindings); or use libraries like dask to easily break down and distribute the problem for greater parallelism
it's still not as efficient or blazing fast as re-implementing it in C/C++, but when you look at the cost to the company in terms of cost of that skill level, and development time, versus actual computational cost, a lot of the time doing it with python even if it's not the fastest it can be, is still going to come out on top
after all, doesn't matter if you had to pay an extra $1000 to run the program when it would have cost more than that for the extra development time
this obviously is a tradeoff that's common in data science, and AI; where very often a model is run a few times before something better is made. In other domains that need high performance computing, the tradeoff is different. But here in this python server, I assume the majority of the use-cases we talk about skews in python's favour simply because those are the ones we want to talk about as a server
for that reason, I don't advise learning C/C++ any more, unless you've already mastered Python. If not, learn Python, learn it well; and if you're involved in high-performance computing and are using Python, learn the python libraries and frameworks for it - numpy, pandas, dask, cupy (and related), numba, and all the other python parallelization and distributed computing tools
shadow moss
If you are going to learn another language, web dev, JavaScript, anything else, Java/Kotlin or C#
harsh patio
I need to probably study angular
I have a strong background in C# and it seems that front end component is a huge desire for .net dev jobs.
unkempt cloud
compared to Vue or React?
all I know is that Vue is easy, React is popular, and Angular.
shadow moss
I mean, showing any strength in one of JS Web Frameworks is bonus
companies would prefer if you knew THEIR web framework but second choice would be anyone who knew other two popular web frameworks
vast shoal
It's probably not super hard to pick up a new JS framework if you already know one. They are different, but they solve the same problem, so it should be pretty intuitive.
umbral wyvern
Do you guys think that doing course or specialization on MOOC, on platforms like Udemy or Coursera can bag a job at FAAMNG?
vast shoal
Probably not.
Not by itself anyway.
But that might be a good way to get into programming in general.
harsh patio
I said angular and I totally meant react. React is the one I’ve heard asked for way more than anything else.
distant crow
Vue is also up and coming, thank You very much
old robin
Is it better to learn Java before Python if i want to work as a Developer?
violet zealot
I learned python first. Then Java, which helped me understand OOP, which made me better at Python
distant crow
if you want to work as a developer, learn a language, and learn it well before jumping to another language. I don't see the benefit in learning Java before learning Python versus just spending all that time learning Python
once you have learned Python, and gotten your job as a Developer, and you want to expand your skillset, by all means learn another language
but I think until you get a job as a one-language developer, learning something else beforehand is a distraction. Is it better for your skillset? absolutely it is, but it's also much slower for you, and an unnecessary "early optimization" as it were. Learn one thing, learn it well, get a job, then go expand your knowledge with other stuff
vapid jay
what does python do is it for game devs or something or general coding
wheat nimbus
this is not really the channel for that question @vapid jay , however Python can be used for anything. though it's better for certain things (such as datascience, and web backends) than others (Such as 3D graphics, which is struggles with performance wise)
vapid jay
oh ok
shadow moss
Stllvll, I'm going to disagree with meseta, Java is much more popular then Python so if you have to focus on single language, Java is probably a better choice
analog mason
Stllvll, I'm going to disagree with meseta, Java is much more popular then Python so if you have to focus on single language, Java is probably a better choice
@shadow moss Pretty sure Python took that role a while ago, actually
digital fjord
I think for single language devs, no. Python is often desired in roles where it is purely a tool and you need other skills, like data science
Which makes it more popular than java in general, but purely "know python and just python positions" are not all that common
wheat nimbus
Java is also moving slowly into the legacy front now that oracle has changed the licensing, it seems that very few projects are STARTED in Java now, and most java code is just being maintained.
digital fjord
yeah, but there is still a lot of code to maintain, and its not like there is much reason to switch away from java if you have a lot of code in it.
plush tulip
@analog mason I think @shadow moss is right, java is probably more employable than python
distant crow
my point isn't to compare java to python, my point was addressing specifically "should I learn java before python". if your end goal is to get a job as a python developer, why learn java first?
but if you were asking "should I learn Python or Java for getting my first development job?" and then yeah, we'd have to talk about which one's more employable, all things being equal. but even in that instance things are not equal and which one is a better option depends on the type of job you want
marsh wind
As well as location.
vast shoal
I see no reason why you shouldn't just learn both. For your personal progress as a developer, it's very useful to study at least two different languages, to get a sense of what the similarities and differences between languages can be. It makes you a better developer, and it makes it easier to pick up new languages, which you will most likely have to do at some point.
solid sorrel
What dif tool are you guys using to compare files in git repo?
vast shoal
@solid sorrel This is a channel for discussion of Python careers and the world of work. If you want to discuss tools, you can do so in either #python-discussion or #tools-and-devops.
spark heart
I'm 15 years old, I was wondering if there are any good websites for me to try to freelance or any other way to make money off python. Is there anyway I can make money off python when I'm 15?
native star
im 17 and i do some work through my dad, so try and find connections
neat ingot
@spark heart could try to work for pennies on upwork.com. i would keep quiet on the age. Dont lie if asked, but dont volunteer information for people to discriminate against
spark heart
@native star I tried asking my parents about anything they have ever wanted automated electronicly multiple times. They never seem to understand what I'm try to help them with.
okay I will try that ty @neat ingot .
shadow moss
Problem with lying about your age is if it’s discovered, upwork and fivrr can seize your account with all money in it and any work you have done for client is theirs free and clear
native star
@spark heart good idea but i meant my dad is a programmer and I do some of his work for him
so find someone outside of your family who has connections to a real job
neat ingot
@shadow moss dont lie is good advice. But dont volunteer information people dont need until they trust you is also good advice.
spark heart
upwork and fiverr requires an age to be put in when i make an account
fiverr accepts 13+ actually... any good videos on how to make a good programming account on fiverr?
shadow moss
fiverr I see is 13+ which is crazy sus
true harness
!rule 6
inner wrenBOT
vivid dock
@safe tulip ^Please follow the rules you've agreed to when joining.
safe tulip
Sorry
worthy roost
vivid dock
Ye, that's a no from me.
uncut patrol
hlo every one
harsh patio
How important are soft skills to an interview? From my experience, the jobs I seem to get interviews with they care a lot about technical skill, while conversations I had with others stated they rather have someone coachable, a team player, and can actively learn.
marsh wind
very. it just might not be so evident
harsh patio
How are ways you'd notice?
crude crown
very important indeed
just had an HR interview right now
and I've taken note of some things that I slipped on
essentially, talk with confidence and be pleasant in general
no badmouthing anything or anyone in a really direct way, always talk about yourself in a positive light and when asked about negative things about yourself say things like "too ambitious", "unable to rest", etc.
but do sell yourself as a team player as well
(kind of a stream of consciousness here but a thing or two should be useful for you)
harsh patio
Yeah I do most of that already. I'm pretty sure I developed strong soft skills in college due to some of my outside of class activities I was a part of. Student Organizations, leadership positions, etc. I guess I just wasn't sure how companies look for those skills though
marsh wind
well mostly it would happen on HR interview
tech interview would look on your skills mainly and some overall vibe they are getting, as in " we feel this guy will be nice to work with"
harsh patio
Yeah I try hard to keep a positive vibe during interviews. Except my last interview. I didn't like it so I probably came off as having a nasty personality haha
brain was just thinking so much and it was hard to hear the interviewer. Plus the questions were....meh. Not good imo
visual sun
Hi guys, I'm looking for people to start a game project. My idea is to have a web page and little by little to create video games, whether they are 2d or 3d. The team will be separated by different positions, either director, supervisor, etc. This project is something that was born to gain experience in the field of web programming and video games, for which no one will be paid, since they do not have enough money to create something great. The idea would be to go little by little and make ourselves known internationally, anything they speak to me internally, greetings. ❤️
errant void
Hi guys, I'm looking for people to start a game project. My idea is to have a web page and little by little to create video games, whether they are 2d or 3d. The team will be separated by different positions, either director, supervisor, etc. This project is something that was born to gain experience in the field of web programming and video games, for which no one will be paid, since they do not have enough money to create something great. The idea would be to go little by little and make ourselves known internationally, anything they speak to me internally, greetings. ❤️
@visual sun can I become a tester and report the bugs?
tidal summit
I got an email from my recruiter saying that the team I spoken to felt that I would not be happy with the work they are doing. Should I tell them otherwise and if so then could you advise for how?
vapid jay
is he right?
without knowing anything about you or that team id venture to guess hes probably right lol
crude crown
I'd also say so. It also seems to be a roundabout way to say that there was no "cultural fit"
tidal summit
you are probably right about the cultural fit as Im not opposed to the work (writing test cases)
@vapid jay @crude crown thank you for your insights
vapid jay
maybe you made it sound like you wanted to do bigger and better stuff then 'write test cases'
so while you actually are fine right now doing that, he might be thinking youd do it but be looking to leave asap
🤷♀️
and/or cultural fit like macha said
distant crow
yeah, that does sound a lot like they have an issue with you. the phrase "we feel you would not be happy with the work we are doing" is often a stand in for "we don't think you'd do well doing the kind of work we do, but for the purposes of covering ourselves legally against possible discrimination cases, instead of telling you that we feel you won't cut it, which you could legally challenge, we're going to say it's us not you"
but, that's just me without knowing anything about the situation, it is still possible they think your interests lie elsewhere. just be careful about interpreting what rejection letters say because their need to protect themselves legally is greater than their need to provide you with useful feedback
crude crown
we're together on the fight.
vapid jay
at least until we get promoted
then we are the one looking down
until then tho uh solidarity!
shadow moss
Generally companies are good at reaching out to those they interview
harsh patio
I think its a good sign in an interview when everyone is laughing at the end and cracking jokes
vapid jay
hey what's the best way to get an internship as a high school senior
I feel like i have limited opportunities automatically because im a high schooler
but yea
idk
i have a good resume
good skills
good portfolio
good internet presence
good linkedin
solid projects
medium articles written
but ye
idk
any1 got some tips
and wheres the best place to apply?
opal perch
Usually internships are hard to get as a high schooler as they want people in uni. its hard to prove anything as a high schooler even with all that, because most companies wont even look your way
dull flare
I know this is a python discord, but if anyone here writes C# for a living, how much do you make? Or is it even worth it
neat ingot
Java (mostly) pays my bills for now. Lots of insurance and healthcare companies in my city are c# though.
60-80k in the Midwest is ok. Beats flipping burgers.
jolly furnace
i think my mom makes about 80k with asp net so c# prob pays about the same as java
harsh patio
I was making like $75K in the midwest starting my career in C#
@neat ingot what city is that, if you don't mind me asking? I live in one also very focused on healthcare
dull flare
Yeah, I don't know whether or not I want to go with Java or C#. Also what does being a Senior Software Engineer usually entail as far as requirements and duties?
neat ingot
@harsh patio kansas city. Cerner is big here. They just got on the aws train. (I interviewed there. I dont work there)
harsh patio
Yeah Im in nashville. Some of these smaller cities are definitely growing in hubs
neat ingot
@dull flare java has things like kafka and beam. You should do a start up straight out of school if you can. Looks good and lots of opportunities to develop leadership.
small grotto
@harsh patio if you don't mind me asking, how much are you making now? i'm in a non-related field, looking to switch fields in 10 months.
harsh patio
Well i'm in a data science career right now with a non health care company
but currently 72K more or less
small grotto
oh ok. Better than my 39k. lmao.
harsh patio
oh man. How long you been working? do you have a degree?
small grotto
dude. got a ba 6 years ago. still paying it off.
harsh patio
you in USA? 39K is definitely low for the states with 6 years exp
jolly furnace
no way 6yrs for 39k bc thats like a jr position
harsh patio
Honestly its lower in most areas than a Jr position
small grotto
lmao. you are so right. I've had 6-7 different jobs, trying to break the 40k mark.
neat ingot
@small grotto make a plan and a portfolio. You can do it 😀
small grotto
@neat ingot yessir. goals. reach for the star kiddos. i'm 29 for the record.
mortal hazel
6-7 jobs in 6 years seems a little high
harsh patio
Another example of how bad my boss is. She doesn't have time to review my pull requests and being a data scientist I don't think she knows how to read half the shit I write. So I put up PRs just to merge them directly after
small grotto
@mortal hazel it is high. I agree. I was trying different fields, seeing if I enjoyed it, and if it could pass 40k. So I've done, retail - plant nursery, education - substitute teaching, construction - data entry, logistics - customer service, food industry - barback, cook, server, retail - clothing store, sales - account manager, currently: property mgmt - leasing.
mortal hazel
Hmm, I would be careful. That many different fields/jobs can put some employers off. If/when you think you have a career path you want to follow I'd try to stick with something for a few years at least. I spent a few years before my current career trying to do something else and that even got questioned in a few interviews I had
small grotto
yeah, agreed. I'll consider applying at a different job in 10 months. At that point, it'll be 2 years and I'll know enough python /programming to do so.
mortal hazel
Eh I can't speak for every job/field, but if you want to go into python/programming and you have a reasonable grounding already then I would say just start applying. Interviewing is always good practice and you may find somewhere that is willing to take you on with what experience you already have and start getting real-world experience/training.
Assuming you aren't already working in a programming gig?
small grotto
I'll consider applying after I make an ios app by the end of December. I'm only less than 100 hours, 30 days into python. still a noob.
true harness
why not swift for an iOS app?
small grotto
that's actually what I was going to use. except, I want to have at least 200 hours logged under python before I did that. I think the deadline is do-able.
true harness
why learn python if you're just gonna use another language
small grotto
I did the research. Knowing python is a highly marketable skill, per indeed.com data/linkedin data. My thought process was, master python somewhat, make an ios app. Have something to show the x company and interviewer. Don't all software engineers know more than 1 language anyways?
mortal hazel
But if your app is in swift that doesn't demonstrate Python skill
If you want to have something in your portfolio for demonstrating Python ability I would try and pick something that will reflect the sort of tasks you want to be doing/will be doing in a job
i.e. If you want to do web-dev then make a flask/django app or something
If you want to work in data-science then maybe something where you scrape some data and then present it?
If you actually want to go into iOS app-dev then put Python on the backburner and nail Swift first probably
small grotto
I see where you're coming from. Why not have a robust portfolio displaying both? I just thought of the swift for Ios app, as that was the simplest way for me to jump into software engineering. Per the reddit forums, medium articles, and various sources.
mortal hazel
You absolutely can have a portfolio with both
But I'd focus on one to start with, the one which you want to work in primarily.
small grotto
Yeah, I'm already 9 chapters deep in python. 3 more chapters, then it's project time.
Are you a software engineer?
mortal hazel
By my title, yeah
Whether I really am I dunno haha. After 4 years I still feel like I'm just starting out
small grotto
lmao.
I'm coming from a non-technical background, so a few more obstacles, but not impossible.
harsh patio
@mortal hazel isn't that amazing? 4 years in and you still know you know nothing. I'm at basically the same experience
crude crown
having mentors or people that can actually teach/guide you really does makes a difference in the first years of a career.
mortal hazel
@harsh patio I hate it haha. In my first job there was a guy I learned a hell of a lot off, but he left and my manager was way less technical and I felt I outgrew the place in terms of learning. Now I’m the most experienced Python/software guy in my team and although the pay is good and role is nice I feel like I’ve totally stalled in my personal development. I’d take a pay cut to work somewhere with people way above my skill level
Basically that’s what I feel I’m lacking now @crude crown
crude crown
if you feel you've stalled... perhaps it might be the time to start teaching/mentoring others as well?
that's what a "senior" XYZ does as well
mortal hazel
But I know my code is often garbage haha. Like I’m adept in a narrow section of Python
I’ve been trying to help out in the help-channels here which has been nice
dusk nest
Why are dictionary comprehensions so hard to comprehend 
harsh patio
@mortal hazel that’s kind of where I was. My manager mentored me and he ended up leaving. New boss became a product person with no technical skills. They didn’t want juniors at the company so I was pushed out. Ended up leaving. Now I have a very meh job with a meh boss not developing
mortal hazel
But a lot of what people work on is way out of my wheelhouse, I’m not a gui person. I do backend pipelining and data handling
I’m fine for now because I’m just happy to have a job in these times, and it’s a short-term contract. But my visa expires next year and I kind of want to find a stable place I can take the next steps
crude crown
are there people outside your team that you feel could learn something from?
mortal hazel
are there people outside your team that you feel could learn something from?
@crude crown yeah but with remote working it’s very hard to get time
crude crown
well, try to schedule some calls and such.
mortal hazel
What I really want is better people to review my code. Be critical of my practices etc
harsh patio
I had an interview today and my fingers are crossed all over for it. It’s not a job I was looking for but it’s one I found. Tech stack is different than I was aiming for but it sounds like a new challenge and a new opportunity
Also the employees seemed like all levels of fun. Was absolutely refreshing
Because the people I work with right now have no personalities. They are extremely unfortunate to work with
harsh patio
Degrees
mortal hazel
I have multiple degrees but not in software
harsh patio
Oh? What are your degrees in? A related field?
mortal hazel
Biosciences
I started out writing genomic data pipelines
I pushed my role into a more pure dev one
mortal hazel
It was fun. The problem is that in a research environment where often few people are compsci grads or have worked in “professional” dev then best practices/standards get pushed aside in favour of flexibility/speed of dev
Was a great environment to get hands on with proper work v quickly but has left plenty of gaps in my skill set
harsh patio
Yeah I can’t stay in the job I’m in now or else I will stagnate. It’s bad
ember imp
anyone who entered tech from a non technical background? or know of someone?
mortal hazel
What do you mean by non-technical?
As I say, I now write python for a living but come from a non-software background
But I had technical domain knowledge in the field I first worked as dev in
ember imp
ah that makes sense
non engineering majors I suppose
but everyone has to also still learn in some way so on your second point to distinguish what nontechnical means I mean by major
mortal hazel
Where I'm from we don't have that major/minor distinction
I just did a Biochem Degree. That's all it is
harsh patio
Welp, living the dream here. Working overtime with my boss because if I don't I quite likely lose my job. What every adult dreams of
mortal hazel
Where do you work? Is forced OT even legal
harsh patio
I'm not sure. I've actually been told its illegal. they put it in my professional improvement plan
that i'm failing to succeed because I don't put in extra time
mortal hazel
You want me to work X hours pay me to work X hours, don't contract me for Y hours and expect me to regularly work X lol
harsh patio
I mean, you're not wrong at all
wary owl
is there any career for a 15 year boy ?
wary owl
?
digital fjord
@plush lava don't post random links
shadow moss
depends on your country, in United States, hiring 15 years is PITA so few companies do it
harsh patio
Man....
I just got denied for a job. I absolutely destroyed the interview. I mean I did fantastic. But didn't get the job. fml
topaz walrus
wait till you're 16 and then apply for a job at a grocery store, that'll be easy
vivid dock
@harsh patio Over qualification is also a thing
afaik, haven't actually encountered it myself though.
harsh patio
No they hired someone with more experience in their tech stack
I guess the small bit of upside is that the recruiter confirmed the interview did go as well as I thought, so they're keeping my application on their list of future job postings
Though no telling when another job gets posted. They're a small group
vivid dock
Ah, well that sucks then. Nonetheless if you're qualified for one, you'll most likely find another.
vapid jay
How old do you need to be to start making money off cybersecurity and coding things?
muted surge
I just got denied for a job. I absolutely destroyed the interview. I mean I did fantastic. But didn't get the job. fml
@harsh patio sorry to hear it. its good practice though for later interviews
harsh patio
I guess. Personally I think i'm good at most interviews. I always say I have good soft skills, and I do
But the same reason I was denied is the same reason I always end up denied: Experience
muted surge
what sort of role are you applying for and what experience do you currently have?
harsh patio
Primarily a C# developer with a lot of SQL, AWS experience. The position i thought was .net but it was an AWS/Javascript role. They loved interviewing me, but I don't have JS experience
I've been trying to primarily focus on .net experience jobs
umbral oyster
do people get actual jobs here???
muted surge
ah .net is super popular so i wouldnt distress too much. Lot of great jobs going around in it
vapid jay
do people get actual jobs here???
@umbral oyster no this isnt for job posting or hiring
we just discuss careers here
harsh patio
yeah, I mean .Net is popular but my tech hub isn't very large. I'm in a tough situation because I'm trying to also not move
like at this moment i've applied to every job in my area that is .net related
muted surge
now is a good time to look into remote jobs!
one of the only good things about covid
harsh patio
How so?
I actually hear november/december are the worst months to look for jobs. That January/February are better
shadow moss
They generally are
vapid jay
Indeed has an option for remote-only jobs if that helps
harsh patio
Worse as in there are less?
harsh patio
yeah. typical with my luck
I need to figure something out because this job is sucking the soul out of me
native nebula
Hey guys I Have a couple months of experience in Python,React, currently learning c++ in side but mainly data Science and Others ... My aim this year is to be GSOC ready can anyone guide me...That would be a big help thanks
vapid jay
Hello everyone, I was wondering if someone could let me know if I'm ready to start looking for a job in the field with my current portfolio/github
umbral oyster
@umbral oyster no this isnt for job posting or hiring
@vapid jay ah cool
real galleon
Anyone here work in GIS? That's how I got into Python
left badger
Why are dictionary comprehensions so hard to comprehend :pepeLaughPoint:
@dusk nest
For real. That's what almost made me want to quit all this coding business lol.
I have been doing my best to read up in this particular tab of the server. I also come from a non-computer position. I wouldn't say non-technical though. Former industrial maintenance mechanic. Can no longer do the job physically and am looking to computers after years of fighting it. I have had low level technical support for Apple Inc for iPhone 4 realease (im old, i know) and a credit card processing company for their credit card terminals. Have been forcing myself to learn Python the past 8 months. I have a loooooong way to go but I am having trouble seeing the finish line: off disability and into steady employment. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Ideally I would like to use Python in some sort of cybesecurity position or in machine learning for industrial manufacturing.
grim star
So for Datascience, you really NEED to take college classes? How much does it cost at a community college level look like? I’m learning python and Django as a focus to be more on the side of “need” rather than, a website can be anything and styling. So, I’m looking at Numpy, pandas, Scipy ect.
hoary hazel
Hey there i had a question for the admins (but probably shouldn't use a mention so won't) The hosting startup I work for has some internship and server moderator position avaliable would putting out a message here be ok or is that self promotion?
jolly furnace
i suppose with data sci you prob need to have a strong understanding of lin alg, vector calc and stats
and the computer is more of a tool
shadow moss
Keegurkan, hit up Modmail
Justcode most companies want to see college for data science
harsh patio
The more I look into my problem with my boss the more it seems there are way too many terrible bosses out in the world
jolly furnace
thats prob true. i recently interviewed for some company and i saw a bunch of horror stories on glassdoor on how bad the management was
harsh patio
I just had a discussion with a number of other people. Way too many people are in a similar situation i'm in and its really fucking unfortunate
Companies try too hard to look for the next 'big' person as an employee and being competitive. No care for the people actually fucking performing the job
jolly furnace
there is prob a decent amount of companies that are badly managed
harsh patio
yeah, probably. Fucking shame.
'culture fit' is such a big thing for jobs and yet they don't give a shit if you're happy or not. Funny how that works
left badger
Huh?
vast shoal
639
final grove
hey guys, i have a question about career, well i want to get a job which is python related, i dont like building visual stuff (as web dev or apps) so i wonder is there anything else i could do? automation or something similar?
crude crown
there's a lot of software development where you don't need to worry about GUIs or other types of customer facing user interfaces. If you avoid frontend development or similar things that should meet your requirements.
final grove
is there any chance you can guide me a bit, im confused 2 days straight scrolling and searching stuff i cant guide myself at all
i want to learn but i have no clue where to start
crude crown
if I was starting from scratch my career today, most likely I would bet on SRE/DevOps
jolly furnace
do mind that dev ops is slightly different than software developer
crude crown
yeah, in its current incarnation it involves a lot of YAML files wrangling
final grove
thank you guys for informations so far i really appreciate every word you say
since im lost so bad xd
crude crown
everyone's always lost.
final grove
if you were starting what would be the first thing to learn
crude crown
you just get a bit less lost as time goes by... hopefully.
a skill that's really universal is to know your way around a terminal emulator
and unix tools in general
touch typing is a good skill as well.
final grove
i have some skills with terminal since i did a lot of CTF's
crude crown
and to always "sharpen your saw"
final grove
when i was wannabe hacker
crude crown
another skill is... the capacity to not be distracted and to be focused
that's a somewhat personal thing but there are some ideas like turning off notifications, blocking addictive sites/apps, using pomodoros, etc. which can help with that
crude crown
no prob
winged cliff
hi
im looking to get a freelance job. im an industrial engineering student but i have a couple of programs/projects in different languages. i know the basic stuff of neat programming in general and the basic syntax of a couple like Rstudio, matlab and visualbasic
those programs involve math stuff like probability , numerical methods ,etc
the biggest/complex one in terms of programming is a python videogame using pygame
the idea is to plant one of this things depending on the random weather variables that youre being told and make money
its very very neat, very very easy to read and very very modifyable
sorry for the long text but do you think this kind of stuff, together with a project-like pdf explaining what ive done can impress a potentially employer?
vivid dock
@keen pulsar
wary moon
What would be the best way do describe python experince on a resume if I want to get across that I use it largely for automation, so my work is mostly with numpy and other engineer type jobs, not really proper software, more kludge things together
Right now I have it listed as scientific python since I used to use the python xy distribution
vapid jay
hi
crude crown
You can mention that you use Python for scripting and scientific computing
harsh patio
how long do you guys typically find it takes before posting to a job application and being contacted by HR?
smoky breach
contacting HR directly takes ages
weeks
recruiters can give better timelines
and move you along pretty quick
get a linkedIn
like through a recuiter i've usually coverted it into an offer within month of initial contact.
given i dont f up lol.
harsh patio
How do you contact recruiters through Linkedin? Look up the company page?
@smoky breach
steel quartz
Are there for example in google play any games created with Python ?
I mean can you create game with python(pygame) and publish it?
shadow moss
Possibly? Any serious game will be written in Kotlin which is Android Native language
steel quartz
Sure… or straight in c++
shadow moss
Kotlin is pretty speedy so you may or may not require C++
bitter elm
steel quartz
Ok thanks guys
grim urchin
Does anyone here work in Japan? What does programming jobs look like over there?
Especially for somebody who has at most a basic level of Japanese
distant crow
@steel quartz making games always takes longer than people think. I wouldn't jump on Kotlin or C++ directly, we don't live in the dark ages, we have game engines which handle a bunch of stuff for us. Some people don't like them out of principle, but not using game engine because you don't like using someone else's system is probably a bad reason to not use one (good reasons include: being a big enough studio that you can benefit from the investment of something custom, and performance). The reality is, gamedev these days for mobile, you'd be better off with a game engine like Unity, which can export to mobile platforms
(or GameMaker - suitable for 2D games, usually of smaller scope, and easier. Also has mobile export, but no free version)
steel quartz
@distant crow thanks, i actually didn’t mean to create a game straightaway… just asked if it is possible... anyway thank to you now I know what it takes
distant crow
If you're serious about game making as a programming career, I'd definitely join some game development discord servers, and seek a lot of other opinions before deciding to use C++ because that definitely shouldn't be your first point of call unless you know exactly why going that route would benefit you
steel quartz
Ok
distant crow
(short answer to that is: learn C++ if you want to join some of the large studios that have custom engines or use Unreal Engine; but don't do it if you're going indie)
distant crow
I'd recommend GameMaker or Unity if you are wanting to do your own game development projects
steel quartz
Ok thanks
distant crow
two large gamedev servers that aren't specific to an engine are GDL and GDN: for GameMaker, there's two, the larger one is just called "GameMaker" (you can search for it); for Unity, there is also two. I'll DM you links
worth pointing out that if you like Python, Godot's GDScript is largely based on Python3, so shares a lot of similarities. That's also an option if you want to pick based on languages
harsh patio
Any of you ever gotten a job by working with a recruiter?
toxic quiver
I got my most recent job by working with a recruiter
harsh patio
@toxic quiver how did that go for you? I never have so i don't have any idea what to expect
toxic quiver
It went well. They contacted me about a few open positions they were working to fill. They went through their list and asked if I was interested in any of them. I chose a couple that sounded promising, applied, and got to the next stage for one of them.
The recruiter handled the relationship up until I went for the onsite interview. It has been a good job at a well-known company.
white karma
How do you go about seeking company recruiters? Job fairs and the like?
toxic quiver
Depends on your level of experience and your field. I open up my Linkedin status and get messages from recruiters. If you're more junior, you could probably reach out to them directly on Linkedin
shadow mist
Hello everyone. My name is Imron and I'm an aspiring developer. I'm currenlty working towards a certificate in data science and am pretty familiar with python. Does anyone know how I could get into the industry?
Ps, I have no work experiece
distant crow
I've hired with recruiters before. Unfortunately it's a mixed bag out there - there are recruiters that genuinely save everyone time and are worth the expense. there are also recruiters that are sketchy and have predatory practices
it's hard to tell which are which, get recommendations from others who have successfully been hired, or have hired with recruiters in the sector/location to be sure
To give you an example of predatory practices: bait-an-switch is common for both companies and candidates. A recruiter will send to a candidate who isn't yet registered with them a great-looking opportunity: "join us and we'll introduce you to the company!" the candidates join, and immediately it's "sorry, that position was filled, but we'll send your resume to these other companies that you didn't care about and wouldn't have joined us for them if you knew"
for companies, it's the same, they will send an eye-catching resume: "join us and we'll introduce you to this candidate!" then the company signs their contract and immediately it's "sorry, that candidate found another job, but we'll send you these other resumes for candidates you wouldn't have had any interest in joining us to receive if you knew"
I received an amazing looking resume once, it had the name blanked out. I googled some of the details and was able to track down the actual person it belonged to, I sent a message to them asking if they'd applied to us. they weren't looking for a job at all, and had never heard of this recruiter
for that reason I have a recruiter whitelist of recruiters we have worked with in the past where it's worked out, and I ignore (and ask anyone else in the company involved in recruiting) to ignore any other recruiter unless there's a good reason to add them to the whitelist. It's unfortunate that it has to be this way, but shitty recruiters suck and there are plenty of them out there
toxic quiver
To give you an example of predatory practices: bait-an-switch is common for both companies and candidates. A recruiter will send to a candidate who isn't yet registered with them a great-looking opportunity: "join us and we'll introduce you to the company!" the candidates join, and immediately it's "sorry, that position was filled, but we'll send your resume to these other companies that you didn't care about and wouldn't have joined us for them if you knew"
@distant crow
This would only be an issue for staffing firms, correct? As opposed to recruiters who are trying to connect employees to full-time work
distant crow
I don't think there's a big distinction. I haven't worked with any staffing firms
when we've needed temporary staff, we've had good results advertising directly (or use Upwork), so have never needed to use a staffing firm
harsh patio
I feel like a big thing during all this is to only sign an offer with the company. Is that not possible with a recruiter playing middle man?
The recruiter I spoke with earlier seemed real on top of it. Seemed genuinely interested in getting me linked to a job as my resume has a popular tech stack all over it
Regardless, recruiters seem very much a prominent means to get jobs out where I am, so I probably have little choice. Most companies are like medical industries who don’t know what they’re looking for or rather outsource the problem
vapid jay
noo
distant crow
yeah, I don't mean to generalize. there are good recruiters, just watch out for the bad ones
I think many companies have fairly automated systems that push out job descriptions to prominent sites. The cost of doing that is low, versus recruiters who are often charging a 10-20% of first year salary in fees, so companies might as well push job descriptions out there on common sites like Linkedin and Indeed
So you'll find jobs there as well, and most just put you onto exactly the same applicant tracking system that you would end up on going through recruiters too
things vary by company and country of course, worth doing some legwork yourself in checking those job sites too and applying. doesn't hurt to get more applications out there
harsh patio
Recruiters are supposed to help though right?
I mean, they'll try to ensure you get an interview at companies as opposed to potentially the company skipping over your resume?
distant crow
recruiters are supposed to help, but you are their product that they sell to companies for money
and some, unfortunately, will attempt to minimize the effort that they need when dealing with you
shadow moss
This
distant crow
because after all, they're money-making companies, and they need to balance their cost of doing business, versus revenue. and there's more than one way to do that, some of them are not good for you, the candidate
harsh patio
As long as I have a programming job, I honestly don't care haha. I'm in a tough situation and if a recruiter can sell me to someone who will pay to program for them, i'll do it until I can find another gig
shadow moss
you are product, not the customer, no one gives a crap about what the box on the shelf thinks, that's reality of dealing with external recruiters
dry sapphire
especially for entry-level positions, the cost of a false positive (monkey getting hired) is a lot higher than the cost of a false negative (missing a talented person)
distant crow
yes, that's fair, your biggest risk is having your time wasted by a recruiter that doesn't really care how good the job match is because they take a shotgun approach, and sees what sticks
the bad ones I've worked with seem to like to focus on volume rather than quality, they'll be sending massive pools of candidates to companies, and making almost no effort in trying to match candidates to job positions. At some point we just stop dealing with them because it's too much time on us to screen the candidates some more versus how much they're going to charge us if we do accept a candidate through them
I'm not sure what this looks like from the candidate's point of view. I guess if they're not making an effort to send you positions that are relevant to your skillset or interests, that's probably a bad sign. If they show you a job position you're interested in, and when you follow up, they say they can't get you an interview, that could also be a sign that they don't actually have a contract with that company and are using your CV as a way to try to get the company to sign on to them. I've definitely been on the candidate side of that one. I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. a bit annoying when they can't make the connection to the company that they pretend that they can
harsh patio
I'll have to play it by ear then, but honestly it shouldn't be difficult to match me with a company, honestly. My skillset is in a ton of jobs around here
Recruiter might be blowing smoke, but he also said my tech stack experience is a popular one in this area (though i think its popular in most areas)
Sounded pretty confident getting me a gig in that realm shouldn't be too difficult but also acknowledged hiring is slow right now as we head towards end of year
distant crow
the stuff you mentioned sounds like they're ok
good recruiters exist, I've worked with them, and with people who were hired through them. and bad recruiters exist, accounting for the majority of the spam I get from recruiters on emails and linkedin
harsh patio
I've seen some of those bad linkedin recruiters
I just need a job. Its stressing me out to a very unfortunate level. So if any of these recruiters can get me a job, i'm about it
I'm good at interviewing. Thats no problem. Just help me get my foot in the door
I also have a lot of experience. My biggest 'gotcha' is that i'm more of a backend engineer. I need frontend experience because most jobs around here are full stack
vapid jay
Do you know a Site/Agency or something like that where you can make money with coding?
Something like a 1 Timejob thing
dry sapphire
I'm good at interviewing. Thats no problem. Just help me get my foot in the door
@harsh patio this is literally my experience too
every interview I have actually gotten I have smashed
but many companies (especially the big ones) literally won’t even give me a phone screen
so yeah no real advice but I know how you feel
inner wrenBOT
dry sapphire
and also off topic I would say
harsh patio
Yeah @dry sapphire I seem to be getting some hits with smaller companies in my area. I'm just always missing a skill or two. I had a job interview I slam dunked on monday
but tuesday they said they loved me but found someone with relevant experience
tacit kite
owh
vapid jay
@tacit kite this is not the right place to ask/do something like that
tacit kite
mb
crude crown
never really used recruiters before although they're stalking me on Linkedin lately... Maybe I should reconsider
mortal hazel
contacting HR directly takes ages
@smoky breach I feel like my personal experience is the direct opposite of this
Granted I've worked for smaller companies, but I found reaching out and contacting someone at the firm (preferably someone in the relevant department, but HR if thats the only details you can find) has massively increased my hit rate
crude crown
do you mean referrals?
mortal hazel
No. I mean like, find a job ad, then contact the company direct
Unless it has something stating to specifically not do that obviously
mortal hazel
Yeah, as I say I'm not applying to a Google here
crude crown
can't really see that being feasible for companies with more than say... 100 people
mortal hazel
Depends. Worked at a company of 300+
Depends how big the department you're being hired into is really
How much autonomy over hiring they have too
smoky breach
@mortal hazel ye also disclaimer, i've only ever landed 3 job offers. one recuiter, one HR, one recuiter.
@mortal hazel so pinch of salt haha
mortal hazel
For me it's all about foot-in-the-door
Whether you got the interview by recuiter/other means
Whether you actually get hired after that point it shouldn't matter how you got the interview
So even if you had all 3 jobs where you'd gone through a recruiter, if your interview ratio is 10:1 other:recruiter I think that's what matters
But it really is pretty variable I think.
No one-size-fits-all solution.
smoky breach
totally
@harsh patio also to note, if you set up your linkdin correct and live in the appropriate place, they should contact you i.e. you shouldnt need to contact them
also when i mean appropriate,i mean a place where recuiters are the main waty.
why*
way**
mortal hazel
Yeah I have a pretty low-level LinkedIn profile and it was surprising how many messages I got when I set my status to looking for work
smoky breach
indeed, also a description/skills with all the right tech
like im learning rust
put it as a skill
mortal hazel
Be careful with that
smoky breach
ive been contacted at least 2 now for a rust related roll
jolly furnace
lmao doesnt linkedin only allow 3 skills
smoky breach
na man
jolly furnace
like u can only post 3 of them
smoky breach
they keyword match anything
jolly furnace
and the other ones u gotta expand
mortal hazel
Nah don't think so
jolly furnace
like on ur pf
smoky breach
they have api they can access to automate searching candidates
linkedIn sells it to recuiting agencies
mortal hazel
Oh you mean it only shows three and then has a button to expand the view
jolly furnace
lmao this market of ppl data
mortal hazel
Which I think is true
jolly furnace
selling data to profit
smoky breach
yup
mortal hazel
Meh you want to sell my data go ahead
harsh patio
How do I set my shit up to looking for work while also NOT alerting my job I changed that?
smoky breach
i think you are able
harsh patio
My linkedin is kinda meh but my resume is nice
crude crown
there's an option that allows that in LinkedIn
BUT there's no 100% guarantee that no one from your company will find out
jolly furnace
i keep my linkedin lowkey
smoky breach
@crude crown bingo
crude crown
I activated mine anyway, IDGAF
crude crown
promotion? as in using LinkedIn Premium?
hmmm... I actually had used Linkedin Premium on my last job search... maybe I'll activate it in January
that's when the best season for job hunting starts
smoky breach
no as in at my job, so assume they didnt see me looking for other work for 6 months
harsh patio
Was premium worth it?
crude crown
in my case? I'm not sure
smoky breach
i had it
crude crown
for my current job it was the company that foudn me
smoky breach
at least in my opinion
crude crown
(one of the worst mistakes of my life to have joined this company but oh well)
crude crown
well, the people in my company (at least the manager and stuff)
know that I'm REALLY pissed off at the company
smoky breach
good
crude crown
still, don't care if they find out I'm looking for something else.
really unlikely thing to happen
but who cares
dry sapphire
that's when the best season for job hunting starts
@crude crown why do you say so
crude crown
January and February the companies have renewed budgets for hiring
and HR/Recruiters are looking to hit their hiring quotas ASAP
smoky breach
correcto, i landed an offer in March i think
harsh patio
I'm hoping I can get a job by January despite knowing its unlikely
But if I have to wait till March, I should be able to make that work
crude crown
I'm really hoping to deliver my notice at the beginning of February at the latest
harsh patio
I'm probably getting fired end of december/early january
crude crown
will deliver it anyway even I don't have anything lined up
crude crown
I'm having physical repercussions due to the whole clusterfuck at my company
smoky breach
sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do
crude crown
like teeth grinding and stuff...
crude crown
in my case... not really, can't say I've been having an unreal workload
actually, I've been slacking quite a bit in general
mortal hazel
I've never understood the Jan/Feb hiring thing
crude crown
but when I do things... I do them well
crude crown
it's utter disrespect towards me and feeling utterly humiliated
mortal hazel
If you want a new job the best time to start applying is right now
crude crown
that's what I've been doing
harsh patio
Yeah, I'm not waiting. But i've been told companies slow down
smoky breach
really!?
harsh patio
So your options are limited
mortal hazel
I've never known that to be the case tbh
harsh patio
Recruiter I spoke to said holiday causes December to slow down for sure
smoky breach
you might get contructive dismisall if you have proof
mortal hazel
But at least in the UK financial year is normally April-April for most companies
smoky breach
well HR has proof
mortal hazel
So in terms of budgets you'd think they'd be most flush in April
harsh patio
USA Q4 ends December
mortal hazel
/Have money to use up in March
crude crown
that's what one would think
mortal hazel
Lot's of departments often need to spend more right before a new budget period in order to keep their budgeted amount
Like a use-it-or-lose-it
crude crown
I used to work at a semi-public research institute that had a budget like that
they had a full basement full of unused computers
crude crown
yeah... especially considering the miserable raises and career progression over there
but oh well, accounting shenanigans
harsh patio
I see a ton of jobs open currently though. Fingers crossed recruiters can find me one
mortal hazel
End of budget rolling around: "Hey boss we could really use a new XYZ"
crude crown
yeah, that's true.
harsh patio
From my experience though my company never moved hiring around quarters though
mortal hazel
Or: "Can I go to this conference"
harsh patio
if we had a need and it went up in November, then it went up in november
they would budget for additional people the next year but that doesn't mean those positions went up in february
smoky breach
i got my current job end of november
in a big investment bank
not python related tho
"cries in javaShit"
harsh patio
I'm looking for a non python job currently so its all good
I'm pushing hard for a .Net job
smoky breach
.Net
harsh patio
I have like 4 years in .Net C#
smoky breach
ah
jolly furnace
.net doesnt always mean fun
harsh patio
4 years rounded up, but whose counting
mortal hazel
4 years rounded up, but whose counting
@harsh patio Always round up
crude crown
Python's is all I really actually know in terms of languages, but I've worked with Java previously... if worse comes to shove maybe I'll brush up on my rusty Java
harsh patio
@mortal hazel its what i've been doing hahaha
crude crown
yup, always round up
mortal hazel
No one is challenging you on that if your competency in a skills test matches
harsh patio
Problem i'm running into is a strong desire for Javascript frameworks. Which I know JS, just not the frameworks
mortal hazel
Problem i'm running into is a strong desire for Javascript frameworks. Which I know JS, just not the frameworks
@harsh patio Ugh I hate thgis
crude crown
React is somewhat easy to get into
smoky breach
im am bit done with JS
mortal hazel
I see so many jobs where I'm like - tick, tick, tick. Oh React. I'm out
mortal hazel
Just let me do backend shit. PLEASE
jolly furnace
i mean i did get a job that wanted react when i knew jack about it
crude crown
I've dabbled with JS and react for a month and was able to whip up a frontend for a web app.
harsh patio
Yeah I had a job I missed out on due to lack of JS experience
Nailed the interview, but lacked the JS experience
smoky breach
im not even sure what i want to do
harsh patio
React and Node.js required
mortal hazel
I just have no real desire to get into front-end seriously
crude crown
me neither
mortal hazel
So I dabble when required
crude crown
I'm up to work in most things
smoky breach
@mortal hazel good shout
harsh patio
@jolly furnace you didn't have experience in it?
harsh patio
Then there is hope for me
mortal hazel
But I have so much else I could improve I don't feel like delving into JS
jolly furnace
lmao that was a jr position
crude crown
it's a matter of how much you can BS with JS
harsh patio
RIP
jolly furnace
unless ur looking for jr position
harsh patio
In my defense I have strong backend skills
mortal hazel
Like I feel my core "IT" stuff needs work, and would be actually more useful
smoky breach
i want out of web in general
mortal hazel
Stuff like networking/architecture
harsh patio
lots of data store skillsets, cloud, etc. Just missing the frontend component
mortal hazel
Especially as I seem to end up getting asked to choose how we deploy stuff all the time
jolly furnace
do u feel when u jump into web dev u kinda cant jump out
crude crown
or companies could get a freaking clue and stop looking for unicorns
mortal hazel
And I'm like *shrug*
smoky breach
@mortal hazel ftp lol
crude crown
I really hate this "fullstack" nonsense where companies are looking for one man teams
this is also evident when they want data scientists which need to do everything from data engineering to frontend
harsh patio
Same. Its why I never got into react. Now I'm facing being jobless and its a vital skill I need.....guess I don't have much choice
mortal hazel
Just because I spent 4 years programming in Python doesn't mean I'm suddenly an expert on full deployment pipelines
crude crown
be assured that React's not hard to get into.
smoky breach
ye its alright
harsh patio
I'm going to, over the next month, get my hands in it and try to get it on the resume
crude crown
start with a create-react-app , make a TODO list app and then jump into something random.
harsh patio
That and JQuery are two big ones
smoky breach
jquery?
mortal hazel
The worst is when they imply a skill is a nice-to-have but not a necessity, and you think "Oh they have other people who know it I'll pick it up" - and then you discover they expect you to learn it and start using it because they in fact don't have anyone who knows it
smoky breach
for like legacy?
smoky breach
hold your horses
harsh patio
lots of postings out here use JQuery apparently
jolly furnace
jquery is popular too i think
crude crown
so what's in? Sorry, not really a frontender.
harsh patio
React/Angual/JQuery from what I've seen
smoky breach
redux is more legacish now
i removed it all when hooks came out
react hooks
a feature built into react
crude crown
oh yeah, I've used those
smoky breach
not saying redux is bad but
crude crown
when developing that frontend more than an year ago
smoky breach
ye, redux is a foot gun tho
two C# devs started the codebase
every single piece of state was in redux
which isnt the point of it
but ye
even thougj i have 3-4 years react
i dont think i want anythjng to do with it
anymore
making web apps is just not that interesting
in my opinion
of course
harsh patio
I don't mind it, personally. Lots of tech involved with it. And the skill is so marketable. Its why I don't mind learning the frontend component
I just don't want to stay a frontend guy
I prefer the backend portion, but I'll learn all the skills needed. Just need a company willing to hire me with little React experience
mortal hazel
I'm happy to learn on the job, as long as I'm not expected to learn it all without help and be the go-to guy for the thing I just learned
harsh patio
I'm willing to learn outside the job, personally. As long as its not the standard
harsh patio
Like if I get a job that I have to spend a little extra time ramping up to learn, or a new project we might try new tech with. Thats fine
What do you mean?
crude crown
he means to crunch for a week or two in order to ramp up on some tech or whatever
harsh patio
oh yeah yeah
But also work time should be used for that as well. So it shouldn't be all outside time
crude crown
that's actually something I'll be doing in my next gig
right on the first weeks
try to understand the fastest way I can have an impact and do some crunch time
and start from the very beginning to think of ways to streamline my work
smoky breach
well good luck, if you play phasmophobia reach out on steam, name: blipo
crude crown
just to get that low hanging fruit out of the way
harsh patio
Yeah thats always helpful
This industry, as well as it pays, can be so fucking unforgiving and inconsistent
its very frustrating
harsh patio
industry expectations all over the place. Managerial expectations everywhere. Its just all so difficult to navigate
crude crown
so count your lucky stars that you're in the US
harsh patio
True, though I don't make a ton. I do okay. Considering how much I paid to go to school its not wildly amazing
crude crown
I really feel you on the difficulty to navigate this industry
dry sapphire
True, though I don't make a ton. I do okay. Considering how much I paid to go to school its not wildly amazing
@harsh patio how much does education cost in the US?
like a bachelor's?
not just tuition, like...all in
harsh patio
$40-$50K probably. Average might be around 40K somewhere
dry sapphire
USD?
harsh patio
yeah
dry sapphire
hm.
mortal hazel
so count your lucky stars that you're in the US
@crude crown Honestly I wouldn't take US pay over what I make elsewhere considering the crappy worker rights
Oh yes, I'm sick, let me just use up my holiday so I don't have to infect everyone at work
mortal hazel
I'm not even sure the pay in US outside the big tech firms/cities is that great
unborn crag
In CA it can be as cheap as 50K for public schools and as expensive as 300K for private, before scholarships/grants
dry sapphire
CA is California?
mortal hazel
Yeah
unborn crag
CA is California?
Yeah. Although most ppl got scholarship/grant
But many ppl have to cover the rest with loan
past mountain
careers?
ivory coyote
got offered a dev position at IBM, I read mixed feelings about the company, any recommendations ?
sour charm
got offered a dev position at IBM, I read mixed feelings about the company, any recommendations ?
@ivory coyote : Research your potential future manager and coworkers
jolly furnace
might as well look it up on glassdoor and see the comments
shadow moss
@ivory coyote If your first job, I'd recommend taking it just because it's not terrible company to have your resume and job > no job. Otherwise, it's likely going to be big megacorp development where it's a ton of meeting, monolithic Java application and average coworkers
it's probably very dependent on which division you land in
ember imp
hi everyone
does the company for sophomore summer internship matter? for SWE and Technology Analyst
say a person interviews with:
Google, Lyft, Stripe, Bank of America, Robinhood, and Morgan Stanley
and offers from BoA, Robinhood, and MS
are those still good to break into future SWE roles (the banks would be tech analyst roles and Robinhood would be more SWE, but benefits/personal interests seem better fit at either bank)
native panther
what r some projects a high schooler could put on their github/profile to get internships? i'm trying to make money for college
native panther
thanks!
dry sapphire
how do you all feel about open-plan offices
shadow moss
gm, they are generally awful
sometimes they really help collaboration but more often they not, they are highly disruptive when you need to sit down and grind out code
mortal hazel
Depends what you mean by it imo
My old office was 7 us sat around the edges of one room, so backs to each other. Easy enough to gather in the middle for a chat, also easy enough to put on the ANC headphones and be dead to the world
But then I’ve worked in places where it’s basically a whole open-plan floor and I found that much harder to zone out
paper bluff
!code print("hi")
inner wrenBOT
magic stag
Hi
ivory coyote
@sour charm @shadow moss thanks
minor garnet
hi giys
*guys
does anyone know a certification of python which shows a lot of python knowledge? i saw the microsoft one but it was for beginners
ivory coyote
Github profile > certification when it comes to python
distant crow
how do you all feel about open-plan offices
@dry sapphire mixed bag:
- terrible for focus. distractions all the time
- great for group work and general office vibe. Also lower cost
my opinion is that at a practical level, open-plan offices are unavoidable for a lot of small companies in cities with expensive real-estate (and a lot of tech hubs are that), who just can't afford to have offices. I wouldn't be prejudice against them for that reason. BUT ideally any company with open-plan offices should have quite spaces for meetings and solo work, and their management should have a good understanding of the tradeoff they have made
At a personal level, get noise-cancelling headphones, and make your boundaries clear. encourage working practices that work better in this situation (i.e. discourage people tapping you on the shoulder any time they have a request)
dire nimbus
pine citrus
!e print("Hello World")
inner wrenBOT
You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.
pine citrus
XD
clever cliff
can anyone help with this code
name = input("Enter Your Name:")
print("Hello" , name, "Welcome Back!")
day = input("How Was Your Day:")
if day == 'Good' or 'good'
print("Great To Hear That")
if day == 'Bad or 'bad'
print("Im Sorry To Hear That")
toxic quiver
Probably not the channel for this, but you need to separate your conditions
if day == "good" or day == "Good":
print("True")```Also add a colon
@clever cliff
dense vine
For my careers class in my high school i need to interview someone in a career im interested in. Is anyone interested in being interviewed that has a career in coding, web dev or anything relating to computers?
i will get the questions later today, these will be easy questions that are just questions for any career. DM me if you are interested
it will just be via dm for the questions
harsh patio
Yooo that feeling when you have two interviews for jobs lined up
one phone screen one I guess technical interview
digital kayak
I just joined the server, I'm still in middle school but I'm trying to learn Python so I can try to represent USA and participate in the IOI
crude crown
Head into the #python-discussion channel kid, you still have quite a few years before you have to worry about careers nonsense 🙂
harsh patio
speaking of
man
I have 3 job interviews coming up and I'm so hopeful one of these is 'the one'
true harness
@digital kayak it's very difficult to use python for usaco, due to its speed. you will have to optimize much more than with a language like cpp
true harness
if you really want to do competitive programming then yeah
urban nacelle
I have a chance to pitch myself for a new job role and job description. I was thinking about pitching myself for a Data Science role. Has anyone ever done something like this? Right now, the work I do, is mostly digital marketing, but I've been working to do some ML work with our data.
Any advice would be lovely.
near oriole
I heard there was an online programming school that doesn't charge you tuition unless you get a good job afterwards. Does anybody know what it's called, how good it is, and how it ranks against competing programs?
languid echo
Hmm. I wonder what the parameters for that is. Like what happens if you get a really good job 3 years later, what about 10 years.
dry sapphire
I heard there was an online programming school that doesn't charge you tuition unless you get a good job afterwards. Does anybody know what it's called, how good it is, and how it ranks against competing programs?
@near oriole there are a few!
but I think they vary from country to country
near oriole
I'm in the U.S.
distant crow
some take a percentage of your paycheck when you get your job
dry sapphire
^
distant crow
so it's not free. It makes sense to me - when you need a job, you can't afford to spend much on courses even if they boost your chances
mint citrus
to me thats kinda shitty
distant crow
seems fine to me. nobody's forcing people to do it, and they seem to be reasonably upfront about the eventual costs. so you get to make an educated decision. what's wrong with that?
dry sapphire
to me thats kinda shitty
@mint citrus yeah, why do you think so?
mint citrus
maybe its cause i taught myself and it didnt cost me money.
my guess is that they offer a bunch of videos that prob are not much different than the ones you can search on youtube
distant crow
then it's not for you, congrats, but others may see that value differently
mint citrus
and sure they offer structure. but i dont know what else they could offer
dry sapphire
maybe its cause i taught myself and it didnt cost me money.
@mint citrus sometimes it's not just about the knowledge
distant crow
you seem to have made a criticism about online courses in general, rather than something specific to this structure
dry sapphire
sometimes it is legitimately difficult to get a job without a relevant certification
or the marketing that comes with the course.
dry sapphire
which I don't like, but being self-taught and facing exactly this kind of barrier...I understand well.
mint citrus
what kind of cert do they offer?
distant crow
some people have the fortune of having the right opportunities and the right mindset to be ready to learn themselves. I find it "kinda shitty" for those people to say courses that they're not personally interested in are "kinda shitty" just because their own circumstances mean they don't need it
dry sapphire
some people have the fortune of having the right opportunities and the right mindset to be ready to learn themselves. I find it "kinda shitty" for those people to say courses that they're not personally interested in are "kinda shitty" just because their own circumstances mean they don't need it
@distant crow agreed
mint citrus
i didnt say the courses are shit. i find they take a percent of your salary kinda shit
im just skeptical thats all.
dry sapphire
i didnt say the courses are shit. i find they take a percent of your salary kinda shit
@mint citrus you don't pay anything upfront though
so you could look at it as an incentive for them to help you get the best paying job possible?
mint citrus
they find jobs for you?
and for getting the best paying job possible depends on you and not on them
true harness
it's like a win win, if they help you enough that you get a job, they get paid according to how nice your job is
dry sapphire
and for getting the best paying job possible depends on you and not on them
@mint citrus but also them to educate you properly
mint citrus
but ultimately its down to you on how much work you put in to become good right?
dry sapphire
but ultimately its down to you on how much work you put in to become good right?
@mint citrus yup, but presumably you have an incentive to do that
mint citrus
they cant force you to be a good dev. you still need self discipline to study
dry sapphire
okay look at it this way
from the perspective of an education provider
cynically speaking, as long as you graduate
they've given you what you paid for
they owe you nothing more
but here they're basically saying "we're putting the amount you pay us on the line"
"we believe in our material, and we think it can help you get a good paying job"
"if you don't, we get paid less"
like I'm not pushing for this model or anything (I'm kind of undecided personally)
but I feel like it's not necessary to cast aspersions on their motives?
mint citrus
or "we have a bunch of online courses worth ??? and we prob never really update them but we keep chugging them out cause eventually people who want to learn will learn and will turn us a profit"
gotta also think whats in it for them. it is after all a business
true harness
how are you gonna make a profit if they never get a job though, the point is that the amount they earn is very closely related to how good their course is
mint citrus
if their quality is really good, then by all means do it. but check it out first
distant crow
your entire criticism is based on your straw man of what you're guessing their course is, this isn't a very useful discussion
mint citrus
say you hire people to make videos. costs you 10k
then you get a bunch of people who can learn and land 100k salary jobs
doesnt take much to catch up right?
distant crow
again, that's a straw man argument
mint citrus
im just very skeptical about those places
distant crow
I suggest investigating the course first to see what they are, and read some testimonials so that you can be properly informed
mint citrus
thats what im telling you to do
dry sapphire
then you get a bunch of people who can learn and land 100k salary jobs
@mint citrus would they have been able to get those jobs otherwise?
if not, isn't that literally an indicator of how good the course is?
distant crow
your scepticism is fine, I'd stop short of calling things "shitty" that you haven't done even the bare minimum to research
mint citrus
we dont really know
dry sapphire
because
if they're capable enough to do that
presumably they're capable enough to learn by themselves
that's one possibility
in which case they probably would have, right...?
and if they're not
then the courses are filling a niche
mint citrus
btw have you found a name for the institutions?
and fyi the testimonials arent always true. ive seen too many companies i work in put up fake testimonials
distant crow
most services we pay for is about building value: you pay some amount of money to someone to be able to extract more value than you paid. that's how business works
plus, you're trying to compare an incremental cost of production of video against the potential benefit for me. that's non-sensical already - you're cherry picking numbers (which weren't right to begin with)
dry sapphire
yes, that too
mint citrus
but it does give structure and you dont have to pay afterwards
ah finally found one. northcoders is something you are looking for right?
dry sapphire
btw, not particularly related
but I feel like algorithm questions in interviews are generally dodgy
distant crow
algorithm questions are low-effort for the interviewer
mint citrus
like i ask the interviewee 1 or 2 algo questions
pfft no
i make my own
i dont pick random ones i find online
dry sapphire
I think in general
they're kinda high variance
and they don't really test the right thing
mint citrus
i test for how they think
dry sapphire
I would rather ask an architecture question
mint citrus
also if they can prove that 1 algo is better than another one
distant crow
yup, architecture questions are more appropriate for more senior engineers
they'll be spending more of their time stitching stuff together, not writing a better sort function
mint citrus
algos are not about sort functions
distant crow
google's senior engineer interviews have about a 60% architecture, 20% algo, 20% management split last I checked
although it's hard to say because their interviews are done by individual google staff, who sign on to do interviews
distant crow
the algo ones were pretty interesting, one question was about how to write something to parse instructions for a maze-navigating robot. I think they were looking for some kind of state machine that read in one character from the instruction at a time, however luckily I had been working on PEG grammar parsers at the time, so I explained it in terms of that
dusty portal
Is there a library for generating api documentation?
mint citrus
swagger?
open patio
have a look at sphinx @dusty portal
small grotto
724 applicants for a junior software developer position, lol.
fiery dirge
Hi guys! Does anybody know anything about automated trading in the stock market?
shadow moss
there are people who have done it before, not really a career question though
weak cape
Hey, I'm currently learning different languages on Codecademy, anyone know how the success rate from learning to getting a job is? Without a specific degree I mean.
fiery dirge
Do you know where I should ask my questions about it? I’m sorry if this is the wrong forum.
shadow moss
acky, maybe #data-science-and-ml or #algos-and-data-structs there isn't a dedicated channel for it due to it's small interest and potential for massive loss
fiery dirge
Thanks !
velvet nexus
Im thinking of becoming an AI engineer. Would i have to become a software engineer first and then do a masters in ai?
compact mist
Going to school wont hurt but software engineers are in high demand and you dont necessarily need a degree to get a job as one... just need a good portfolio as I understand
but yes... software engineering would be a good field to study if you want to be an AI engineer
in my opinion
true harness
data science especially
static elbow
Salary comparison tool b/w various companies for those who don't know about this website.
mortal hazel
Going to school wont hurt but software engineers are in high demand and you dont necessarily need a degree to get a job as one... just need a good portfolio as I understand
@compact mist Whilst this is probably true, for things like ML/AI I think there is a lot of maths and concepts which are (a) harder to self-learn, and (b) harder to prove you have a competency with without some form of qualification
compact mist
depends on the company I guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯
but I am not one to talk because I dont actually work in this field
I only know a few people
torn swallow
Help needed.
Don't know if it has been asked before, but here I go.
Mechanical engineer here, live in the UK, with a Brazilian degree, working as a retail banker at the moment (something needs to pay the bills) have been studying pythin since I was in UNI that's 3/4 years of studying, I have no idea why I haven't got a portfolio, I guess I was too naive. Anyways, trying to breakthrough on the industry, can anybody give me some advise, I so far applied to loads of different jobs, but no luck so far. Also any advices on good quick projects to add to a portfolio and get noticed by recruiters?
shadow mist
Hey guys. I'm relatively new to programming and I'm lost.
I've been coding in python for about 8 months now and should have a certificate secured by the end of the month. What should me next step be?
marsh wind
depends on the company I guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯
@compact mist not just company, even country/city. where I am they likely won't even look at the guy without Masters (in relevant field moreove) degree for AI/ML/DS positions
marsh wind
lmao yeah
swift veldt
I need to start looking for an internship since it's part of my MSc
marsh wind
maybe not the best example, but probably not unique case too
swift veldt
28yo intern lmao
It feels very European
that diploma race.
but the US starts having that issue
especially in DS/AI.
marsh wind
yea. but then, unlike US in EU you don't dump 50k$ per year of Master
marsh wind
as everything, lol salary, taxed, healthcare, social benefits, rent 🙂
heh
you have to do intership in your region or anywhere?
swift veldt
I remember my first income tax was about 6000 euros.
anywhere
I'm looking for an internship in Paris or abroad (though covid be a bitch in that department).
marsh wind
oh so can be many options.
swift veldt
Yes. I'm trying to wrap up a small project in machine learning before starting to look for an internship. I have mid april to august free.
marsh wind
you could try our company 😉 especially if you know some scala lol
swift veldt
why not! Though I don't know scala, it can always be learned.
vapid jay
Im thinking of becoming an AI engineer. Would i have to become a software engineer first and then do a masters in ai?
@velvet nexus AI engineer isn't a normal job title
maybe you mean machine learning engineer (MLE)
or data scientist? or data engineer?
these are all very different jobs, (altho at small companies it's one guy doing multiple jobs)
but yea join the AI server and the machine learning server, etc.
getting a PhD or a Master's obviously won't hurt if u want that kind of job, even if it's not needed, your application will always be at the top of the pile and u can get an interview
if u look on LinkedIn for jobs of this type, many of them list Master's as a minimum and many others (especially Google) list PhD as recommended
but u can also get that through working experience although it's less straightforward, you'll be paid
swift veldt
For internship interview, understand whether you're going to be in front of a technology person, or an HR at first, @leaden badge. You interview differently depending on who you have in front of you.
A good thing in general, for any interview, is to walk yourself through common questions. Have plans.
leaden badge
@swift veldt Okay thanks but do you have any suggestions on what i should review or look over?
swift veldt
You'll have to be a tad more specific then. What are you interviewing for (company, sector, team)?
swift veldt
Well, if you have more info on their team structure and their technology stack, look into how your personal project and capabilities would fit there.