#career-advice | Python | Page 367

little reef Sep 18, 2020, 12:33 AM

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What would be a career to pursue as a beginner python developer looking for experience?

pale heath Sep 18, 2020, 1:25 AM

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python fundamental trainer?

vapid jay Sep 18, 2020, 1:35 AM

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careering careers

grim star Sep 18, 2020, 3:17 AM

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When you start out with Numpy then move to Pandas ect... when starting on the path of Datascience, is it by library? that a job uses?

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 5:01 AM

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like if they're just a chance to purchase stock in the company, how do they increase the value of your remuneration?
@dry sapphire The company gives you the options, or lets you buy them very cheaply. The exercise price is usually set to the current actual or estimated price of the stock, and the exercise period is set to some time in the future (say 3 years). The idea is that if the market value of the stock has increased in that time, when you exercise it you can immediately sell the stock, and your profit is the value increase since you got the option. If the stock price has decreased in that time, you're not required to buy, so you lost nothing. It basically gives you an incentive to try to improve your employer's stock price from the moment you get the option to the moment you exercise it.

gleaming gorge Sep 18, 2020, 5:57 AM

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Hey guys, do stanford, MIT etc (all ivy league unis) offer btech in computer science?
I'm a high school student, I like to take btech in CS abroad.
Also is Btech better than Bsc?

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 6:08 AM

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Stock Purchase plan is employees who can purchase stock using their money at slight discount. This is what I'm referring to being a bad deal. You take on tax implications for minor discounts and many companies will tie up your money for few months.
@shadow moss ah, okay, thanks! we don't have that here, which is why I was a little confused

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@dry sapphire The company gives you the options, or lets you buy them very cheaply. The exercise price is usually set to the current actual or estimated price of the stock, and the exercise period is set to some time in the future (say 3 years). The idea is that if the market value of the stock has increased in that time, when you exercise it you can immediately sell the stock, and your profit is the value increase since you got the option. If the stock price has decreased in that time, you're not required to buy, so you lost nothing. It basically gives you an incentive to try to improve your employer's stock price from the moment you get the option to the moment you exercise it.
@vast shoal yup, got that. my question is more like...sometimes you read about person X being given "$Y of stock options" and I'm just thinking - how is that valuation performed? or is that just someone being imprecise with their terms?

also like here it's somewhat common (albeit for startups) to have stock options with a nominal exercise price (so it's basically a stock grant?). not sure if that's a thing elsewhere.

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:42 AM

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There are mathematical models for estimating the current value of an option, but it's more likely that they're just being imprecise, I'd think.

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I don't know what you mean by "nominal exercise price"

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@dry sapphire

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:44 AM

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I don't know what you mean by "nominal exercise price"
@vast shoal oh, like $1

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like a nominal price

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:44 AM

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That doesn't make sense. Options always have fixed exercise prices.

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:45 AM

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yeah, which sounds like it's just a misnomer

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for what is effectively a stock grant

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:45 AM

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The variability comes from the difference in the exercise price from the current market price of the underlying asset at time of exercise.

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Are you sure it's not just a regular stock option then?

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A stock grant means you get the stock immediately, not in the future.

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:46 AM

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A stock grant means you get the stock immediately, not in the future.
@vast shoal I guess

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not really sure what the real term would be

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that's how it's described in the employment contracts I've seen though

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I actually asked about this

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:46 AM

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What you're describing sounds like a normal stock option.

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:46 AM

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Are you sure it's not just a regular stock option then?
@vast shoal wait, I'm confused

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isn't that what we were talking about?

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:46 AM

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Fixed exercise price, can be exercised at some time in the future.

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You were talking about a stock option with a "nominal exercise price" being the same as a stock grant.

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:47 AM

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oh, yeah

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:47 AM

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Which doesn't make sense

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:47 AM

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I suppose the nomenclature is quite different

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:48 AM

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Stock option = Fixed exercise price, can be exercised later. Stock grant = Get stock immediately for free or at a discount.

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The nomenclature for what is different from what?

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:51 AM

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okay, so what I was originally saying is that the stock option plans I have seen here all involve a nominal exercise price, so employees are more or less given stock over time.

hence I was thinking that's basically a stock grant, but deferred.

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:52 AM

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No, wait, hold on

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What do you mean by "nominal"?

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:52 AM

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@vast shoal oh, like $1
@dry sapphire this

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:52 AM

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Like a fixed price?

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:52 AM

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is the term "nominal sum"/"nominal price" not common?

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yes

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:52 AM

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ALL options have fixed exercise prices

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ALL of them

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So what you're describing is a normal option

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An option is the right but not the obligation to buy a given asset for a fixed price at a certain date in the future, independent of the market value of that asset.

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The exercise price is that fixed price

slim zinc Sep 18, 2020, 7:54 AM

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hey guys....

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:54 AM

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Options have variable value, because if the market value of the asset is higher than the exercise price, you're making money by buying the asset, because you could sell it off immediately for profit.

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 7:54 AM

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An option is the right but not the obligation to buy a given asset for a fixed price at a certain date in the future, independent of the market value of that asset.
@vast shoal yes, I understand that

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okay, I realised I omitted one very important fact

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actually, never mind

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 7:56 AM

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Ok?

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@dry sapphire So do you agree with me or not?

night rock Sep 18, 2020, 8:35 AM

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Buy oil shares

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It will go up one day

viral ridge Sep 18, 2020, 8:54 AM

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^thats some solid arguments

dry sapphire Sep 18, 2020, 11:19 AM

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@dry sapphire So do you agree with me or not?
@vast shoal I...guess? but I don't really see what disagreement there was.

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 12:04 PM

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@gleaming gorge Usually you can top up your BTEC into BSc

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wait...are you doing BTECH or BTEC ?

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BTECH is a united state degree which I doubt would be interchangable

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I typed it on indeed and not a lot of jobs came up with BTECH , the usual is BSc Comp Sci

gleaming gorge Sep 18, 2020, 12:45 PM

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oh ok thanks @mossy latch

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I'm really confused

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I really wanna focus on AI and Robotics but looks like CS is more theorotical

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will mechanical engineering be a good option'

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I'm already pretty good at programming and AI related stuff

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but I think it is hard to self teach robotics

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and its BTECH

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 12:51 PM

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I would go for the bsc honestly

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As machine learning is a fairly new area there are not yet many courses focusing solely on the subject. Because of this, a qualification in a related field such as computer science, statistics, electrical engineering, mathematics or physical sciences is widely accepted as an undergraduate degree, before progressing into a more specialist course.

gleaming gorge Sep 18, 2020, 12:51 PM

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oh ok

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Is there a course BE computer science?

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 12:54 PM

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which country are we talking about ?

gleaming gorge Sep 18, 2020, 12:57 PM

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USA

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 12:59 PM

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They have BSC Computer Engineering

gleaming gorge Sep 18, 2020, 12:59 PM

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oh

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thanks a lot for your help!

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 1:01 PM

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maybe they have BE but i cant find anything on it , im in the UK and it brings up UK education

gleaming gorge Sep 18, 2020, 1:01 PM

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oh ok

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I heard many saying that bsc in CS is not worth it

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they are teaching only theory

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outdated content etc

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 1:02 PM

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Yeah , I heard the same but the job market wants Bsc Comp Sci because its the norm

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This is for microsoft backend ML engineer Job in New York

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Bachelor degree or an advanced degree (Master, PhD) in Computer Science, Engineering, mathematics, or statistics (or the equivalent combination of education and experience)

gleaming gorge Sep 18, 2020, 1:03 PM

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oh

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Also is computer engineering similar to CS?

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I also saw that it is more practical

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It is a combination of CS + EE?

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 1:04 PM

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Yeah its a combation

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No idea , i have done Computing

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I guess look at what the job market wants

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if they want comp sci then thats your best bet

gleaming gorge Sep 18, 2020, 1:04 PM

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ok

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need to do a lot of research

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thanks a lot!

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 1:06 PM

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yeah its not easy 😦

old silo Sep 18, 2020, 2:37 PM

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How can I get devops jobs

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🙂

distant crow Sep 18, 2020, 2:39 PM

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by applying to devops jobs

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🤷‍♂️

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...by being qualified for devops jobs
...by having experience and can demonstrate knowledge about relevant devops tasks and software
...some prior work on projects that use them wouldn't hurt

old silo Sep 18, 2020, 2:44 PM

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@distant crow I don't have any experience of job

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This will be my first job

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That's y I am asking🙂

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 2:44 PM

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then try to look for entry level devops , make side projects at home

old silo Sep 18, 2020, 2:44 PM

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Ok like?

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Can u link me some resources

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😅

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 2:45 PM

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umm indeed.com

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if you are usa

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glassdoor

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Monster

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reed.com

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for projects

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you can find many of them on github

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https://staragile.com/blog/devops-sample-projects

Devops Sample Projects for Beginners | StarAgile

The first step for becoming a DevOps engineer is to learn and do some DevOps sample projects. These DevOps real time projects will provide learning and confidence to start your DevOps journey.

distant crow Sep 18, 2020, 2:51 PM

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try to spin up your own kubernetes cluster on Google or DigitalOcean; run your own OpenVPN instance for bouncing your connection through; build a few Docker images; try out Terraform; set up Jenkins, or try to automate something with github Actions; automate your development environment with Ansible etc. etc.

old silo Sep 18, 2020, 2:54 PM

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Is any certification required to become devops enginner?

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Or anyone can apply for job?

vast shoal Sep 18, 2020, 3:02 PM

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The better your credentials, the better your chances I would assume.

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Not sure if there are any certifications that are particularly respected.

crude crown Sep 18, 2020, 3:27 PM

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I see a lot of people who have no college degrees working in SRE but they have several years of experience in sysdamin/IT

old silo Sep 18, 2020, 5:04 PM

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WoW I wnt to support my family that's y I wnt to get a job

white karma Sep 18, 2020, 5:06 PM

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Don’t we all

mossy latch Sep 18, 2020, 5:08 PM

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I want to get away from my family , there are various reasons why we want a job lol

vapid jay Sep 18, 2020, 7:45 PM

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ssxs

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@mild zenith why did you mute me

mild zenith Sep 18, 2020, 7:46 PM

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I didn't. You muted yourself

vapid jay Sep 18, 2020, 7:46 PM

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I can't type in voice chat

vapid jay Sep 18, 2020, 10:30 PM

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Am I able to become a software developer for a company without a degree

tidal wave Sep 18, 2020, 10:47 PM

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Are data scientists just the new term for financial analyst?

tidal wave Sep 18, 2020, 11:06 PM

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A lot of companies used to hire financial analysts which really didn't analyze finance data but worked as operational analysts - it seems like the same thing is sort of happening with the data scientist term.... or people hire for data analyst that clearly is a data scientist...

stark phoenix Sep 18, 2020, 11:09 PM

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Is that why python is being used more in financial institutes and banks?

mortal wedge Sep 18, 2020, 11:25 PM

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@vapid jay Yes, but you have a steeper hill to climb.

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@tidal wave Data science is a pretty broad umbrella

stark phoenix Sep 19, 2020, 12:18 AM

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It’s funny how to be a doctor you need to go to school so you can get a license to practice medicine. Yet to be a programmer you need a boot camp!

distant crow Sep 19, 2020, 12:37 AM

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most programmers don't kill people when they make a mistake

true harness Sep 19, 2020, 12:38 AM

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and there are enough senior people to watch over the junior people

distant crow Sep 19, 2020, 12:38 AM

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and for those that do, safety processes and checks can be done, which you can't when you're elbow deep in someone's abdominal cavity

shadow moss Sep 19, 2020, 12:40 AM

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Python is used by data analysts because it's easy enough to learn but powerful enough to get job done

vapid jay Sep 19, 2020, 12:41 AM

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:D

regal falcon Sep 19, 2020, 2:44 AM

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does anyone work for mojang/minecraft, if so what is it like?

obsidian dock Sep 19, 2020, 5:01 AM

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Hello everyone new here.

pallid perch Sep 19, 2020, 5:50 AM

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https://github.com/Shahprogrammer/Django-CryptographicFields

GitHub

Shahprogrammer/Django-CryptographicFields

A Django app for cryptography in Django Models. It support bi-directional encryption - Shahprogrammer/Django-CryptographicFields

obtuse pike Sep 19, 2020, 5:57 AM

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hey what’s up everyone, anyone know where how i could get a cyber security job even with being young?

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or at least how i could get started in that direction

mellow umbra Sep 19, 2020, 10:30 AM

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@obtuse pike. Depends on where you are

neat grove Sep 19, 2020, 5:31 PM

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@sullen galleon we don't allow advertisement on the server

sullen galleon Sep 19, 2020, 5:33 PM

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It's not advertising ...it's just i want your help in completing my internship

You just need to write about your college like how the placements are and what are the facilities

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I am doing a data science internship and we are asked to make a dataset

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And then analyize it

heady talon Sep 19, 2020, 5:36 PM

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Hello I'm 18 yo I have high school diploma and Im looking forward to become a ML engineer what do I have to study to become ML engineer

shadow moss Sep 19, 2020, 5:59 PM

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Lots of math

heady talon Sep 19, 2020, 6:38 PM

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Lots of math
@shadow moss what's better to major in AI or computer science?

mortal wedge Sep 19, 2020, 6:40 PM

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Lots of statistics, too

shadow moss Sep 19, 2020, 6:46 PM

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I'd say computer science but I'm type to recommend not to get one tracked focused in undergrad

vast forum Sep 19, 2020, 6:47 PM

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im from india, can someone help me with job?

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i dont have job from last 1 year

opal perch Sep 19, 2020, 6:54 PM

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fix your cv, apply to 100 places, hope to get a job, asme as everyone else

vast forum Sep 19, 2020, 6:55 PM

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everyone need 2-4years of experience

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im a fresher

opal perch Sep 19, 2020, 6:56 PM

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look for student jobs

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or just apply anyway if you ahve the skills

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the whole world is in a shitty place for jobs

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this isnt a place where someone will give you a job

vast forum Sep 19, 2020, 7:00 PM

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yes

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true

timid forge Sep 19, 2020, 7:20 PM

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Hey, can someone tell me where i can start learning python?

weary trout Sep 19, 2020, 7:23 PM

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Facebook is currently recruiting in my country, Nigeria. Anyone know how I can apply as a data scientist.

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I'm a fresh graduate, and I have basic knowledge of data analysis and scikit.

silent haven Sep 19, 2020, 9:23 PM

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https://www.goopensource.dev/companies/python

Global Tech Job Search

Goopensource is designed to simplify search for new jobs in every industry sector

sharp basin Sep 19, 2020, 9:49 PM

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I am 14 and coding started at 13, when I get a job I am going say I have 6 years of pythoon experience 😂

ivory loom Sep 20, 2020, 12:02 AM

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i have 3 years

serene obsidian Sep 20, 2020, 1:14 AM

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Are there any opportunities for part-time python work?

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don't care about the pay, but would definitely like to get paid

mortal wedge Sep 20, 2020, 1:59 AM

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Sure there are

rotund crescent Sep 20, 2020, 4:51 AM

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hi,
i am a grade 11 student(16 yrs old) in India.
Currently I am doing a course on data structures and algo. Can anyone suggest me which problems should i do and how to proceed with my learning.

vapid jay Sep 20, 2020, 7:28 AM

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@rotund crescent in hacker rank it is layed out according to topic ..... solve as many as you can ..... but do a lots of problems ...join some competitions in code forces or hackerrank e.t.c

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@timid forge corey schaffor has a good list on python start from there

timid forge Sep 20, 2020, 7:31 AM

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@timid forge corey schaffor has a good list on python start from there
@vapid jay oooh thank you, i'll check it out!

vapid jay Sep 20, 2020, 7:32 AM

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@timid forge good luck hope you practise consistently...no matter what don't loose the streak atleast allocate two hours everyday

timid forge Sep 20, 2020, 7:32 AM

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yep! I'll do that. Thanks a ton!

vapid jay Sep 20, 2020, 7:33 AM

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@timid forge and do lots and lots of projects like filling a google form automatically using selenium in python e.t.c

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open a github account too

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what's github youtube got you covered

timid forge Sep 20, 2020, 7:40 AM

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oooh. Yep i'll look into all of that. thanks a lot man fr

rotund crescent Sep 20, 2020, 7:53 AM

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@rotund crescent in hacker rank it is layed out according to topic ..... solve as many as you can ..... but do a lots of problems ...join some competitions in code forces or hackerrank e.t.c
@vapid jay ok thanks

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open a github account too
@vapid jay what all can we do on GitHub?

vapid jay Sep 20, 2020, 8:00 AM

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GitHub is a version control system .... Its like mandatory tk know when you entire IT field

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It helps you track the changes in your code

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If something bad happens you can revert back to older version

vast shoal Sep 20, 2020, 8:36 AM

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Git is a version control system. Github is a host for Git repositories.

rotund crescent Sep 20, 2020, 9:38 AM

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GitHub is a version control system .... Its like mandatory tk know when you entire IT field
@vapid jay ok

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Thanks

vapid jay Sep 20, 2020, 9:39 AM

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@vast shoal yep it is sorry I typed it by mistake

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Github uses git

rotund crescent Sep 20, 2020, 9:45 AM

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What all should I learn after data structures and algo

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I know GUI

vapid jay Sep 20, 2020, 9:54 AM

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hey @rotund crescent

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For DS and algo interview :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fNNujOuEqo

YouTube

Codedoctor

How to Prepare for Coding Interviews from ZERO - | Video in Hindi ...

If you are preparing for Coding Interviews for Software engineer or Senior Software Engineer for Dream companies like Amazon , Facebook, Microsoft and Booking.com , Then , this video is for you .

In this video I talk about the Pattern of Coding Interviews Rounds at Amazon , ...

▶ Play video

vital wasp Sep 20, 2020, 12:30 PM

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Hello i have 1 .5 yr exp in IT field job but now i want to make carrer in python but i'm confused from where to start learning i have some basic idea of python, django and DRF
can anyone suggest me from where i should learn or what to do ?

rotund crescent Sep 20, 2020, 12:42 PM

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For DS and algo interview :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fNNujOuEqo
@codedoctor#6454 thanks but I am a grade 11 student (16yrs old)

YouTube

Codedoctor

How to Prepare for Coding Interviews from ZERO - | Video in Hindi ...

If you are preparing for Coding Interviews for Software engineer or Senior Software Engineer for Dream companies like Amazon , Facebook, Microsoft and Booking.com , Then , this video is for you .

In this video I talk about the Pattern of Coding Interviews Rounds at Amazon , ...

▶ Play video

timber gazelle Sep 20, 2020, 5:07 PM

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hey i have a question, can someone do a mock interview with me for a junior python developer position? i have no idea where i stand, i've been teaching my self programming in python for about 3 months, and i have web development experience, and have built a scraper for my wifes job using selenium and a few other tools. i have no idea what to expect as a junior developer.

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also i know C++ fairly well as im in college for it at the moment

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overall i have about 2 years of programming experience but absolutely love python

timber gazelle Sep 20, 2020, 5:27 PM

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nvm i found a site i can do interviews on. it's exactly what im looking for

glad prawn Sep 20, 2020, 6:00 PM

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@timber gazelle what site did you find?

timber gazelle Sep 20, 2020, 6:00 PM

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https://iio.sh/r/9hPz

interviewing.io

Anonymous technical interview practice with engineers from Google, ...

Get actionable feedback, get awesome at interviewing, get fast-tracked at top companies.

glad prawn Sep 20, 2020, 6:02 PM

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@timber gazelle thx!

timber gazelle Sep 20, 2020, 6:02 PM

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fasho!

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oh also pramp.com

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@glad prawn

glad prawn Sep 20, 2020, 6:06 PM

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@timber gazelle good looking out 👍

drowsy merlin Sep 20, 2020, 6:56 PM

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@crude magnet try taking the Python qualification exam at https://www.upwork.com/ cc @indigo juniper

Upwork

Upwork | Hire Freelancers. Make things happen.

Hire top‑quality freelancers for your next project from the largest and most trusted freelancer site. Learn how you can get even more done with increased productivity and find out why 90% of our customers rehire.

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cool!

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hmmm

drowsy merlin Sep 20, 2020, 7:21 PM

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@crude magnet @indigo juniper my mistake! I was thinking https://www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/115833 which might be useful, but I'm not even sure whether upwork allows links to linkedin

LinkedIn Help

Python - Skill Assessment | LinkedIn Help

LinkedIn Help - Python - Skill Assessment -

crude magnet Sep 20, 2020, 7:22 PM

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can u dm me the link and both links are confusing me

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@drowsy merlin

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please and thank you

drowsy merlin Sep 20, 2020, 7:27 PM

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@crude magnet tellmewhy said he would send you a link to the Upwork certificate program description

crude magnet Sep 20, 2020, 7:28 PM

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he would dm me @drowsy merlin ?

drowsy merlin Sep 20, 2020, 7:29 PM

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I asked him to post it here since it's pertinent to anyone with your questions. @indigo juniper (reminder)

indigo juniper Sep 20, 2020, 7:40 PM

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@drowsy merlin @crude magnet https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/215650138-Add-Certifications

Upwork Help

Add Certifications

Adding certifications to your profile that you've earned outside of Upwork is a great way to show off your skills and qualifications.
To add a certification

Go to Find Work › Profile

Scroll down ...

drowsy merlin Sep 20, 2020, 7:48 PM

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@indigo juniper so which of them have the python? Can you please send https://www.udemy.com/course/microsoft-python-certification-exam-98-381-practice-tests/ and https://pythoninstitute.org/digital-badging/ and e.g. learn.stanford.edu/PPC-SCH-Data-Science.html (at least two other universities come up as sponsored ads for a Google search on [python certification exam]) to the maintainers of that page?

📎 Screen_Shot_2020-09-20_at_12.45.47_PM.png

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@indigo juniper apcellerator has some https://wiki.appcelerator.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=37519432

royal lichen Sep 20, 2020, 8:34 PM

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Hi so after learning python where/how to start work for money

night rock Sep 20, 2020, 9:07 PM

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How do I start freelancing?

distant crow Sep 20, 2020, 9:26 PM

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I think you may need to purchase a lance

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aside from that, probably the easiest way if you don't already have a portfolio of work, is to sign onto the various freelancing sites like upwork

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but I think for those, you probably still want a portfolio to show up, otherwise people may be unwilling to take a risk with you if you don't already have a work history there

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Either that, or if you're well connected to people, you could try word-of-mouth, and send out some messages to your network and see if anyone in there, or knows someone who needs a freelancer

night rock Sep 20, 2020, 9:29 PM

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I am on Fiverr

scarlet pivot Sep 20, 2020, 10:00 PM

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I am on Fiverr to, but I only start with this, no success for now(

night rock Sep 20, 2020, 10:06 PM

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Fiverr seems entirely to be the domain of South Asians and Eastern Europeans

grave tiger Sep 20, 2020, 10:30 PM

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Anyone else do the same thing as me? Just write private code trying to make money doing your own projects-startups while you can clearly make public projects on github and get a job... Eh what should I do..... doing startups is more risky while I clearly need a job, but startups are so fun..

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I feel as if I am to stingy with my code

night rock Sep 20, 2020, 10:35 PM

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This is my portfolio is this fine? - https://tejasmisra.herokuapp.com/

grave tiger Sep 20, 2020, 10:37 PM

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Nope @night rock

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To much going on for you to just state that you can do Django, Css and JS, could have put all that in a much simpler design

bright jackal Sep 20, 2020, 10:41 PM

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Feedback that's a lil more constructive:

definitely add existing projects!
don't start with a quote, get straight to the point with your call to action
you could talk about why you're qualified, ie a degree or a bootcamp certificate?
bro you're asking to get paid $5 for a whole website? you deserve better 😭 @night rock

scarlet pivot Sep 20, 2020, 11:07 PM

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Okay, what about my portfolio?
https://olksndrdevhub.github.io/

grave tiger Sep 20, 2020, 11:10 PM

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I really like the style @scarlet pivot , make your call to actions button more noticable, really hard to find that link to your resume.

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Plus there are much better ways to represent your twitter link, etc. Focus on making Contact with me and Check & Follow more appealing, remember there are things such as placing links on images.

scarlet pivot Sep 20, 2020, 11:13 PM

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Thanks for advices) I will make some changes, think you are right about call to action part

rapid needle Sep 21, 2020, 3:24 AM

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💯

mellow agate Sep 21, 2020, 8:32 AM

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@kind tapir Hi, sorry, but we don't allow recruitment here, and the tail end of your message was definitely that. Apologies for the inconvenience!

wispy cape Sep 21, 2020, 9:32 AM

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@gleaming gorge

Is the ML field overhyped ? Yes, definitely
Is it oversaturated ? For now, in my sample size of 1, it looks like it isn't, it's enough of a specialist's job for it to be hard to find competent people
As for whether it will still be as relevant in 20 years, it's safe to assume ML will still be used, if not more, but maybe being a ML engineer then won't be the same as it is today, it's pretty much impossible to predict anything related to computer science and programming seeing how everything moves so quickly
Is ML easy ? I like to think it is a lot harder than most people make it out to be, it's so much more than simply training a model, which is why experts from all fields are converting into ML/DS, they all have different visions and expertises that can be used one way or another
As for the relevance of ML in the next few years, as I said above, I think it will continue to exist for a very long time, but the way we do ML might change over the years

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(from #internals-and-peps)

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I wouldn't be surprised to see ML being "just another tool" every programmer should have in their toolset in a few years

distant crow Sep 21, 2020, 10:11 AM

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totally agree with the above, very well put

quartz heath Sep 21, 2020, 12:10 PM

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Hello. I wanted to ask some advice about internships

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My college didn't allow students to pursue internships while pursuing their undergrad. I have just finished my undergrad and I feel horribly inadequate for a real job.

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I was thinking of doing an internship first but I'm not sure if internships are only for college students or can the people who've graduated do them too?

vast shoal Sep 21, 2020, 12:19 PM

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@quartz heath Just note that college doesn't usually teach you everything you need for a professional environment, and employers already know this. They won't generally expect someone fresh out of uni to be able to do everything on day 1. I think you would be underselling yourself by pursuing an internship if you already have a degree.

quartz heath Sep 21, 2020, 12:21 PM

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But if I want, can I still do an internship?

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Will companies consider me as a candidate or do they select only people who are currently in college?

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@vast shoal

vast shoal Sep 21, 2020, 12:26 PM

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I have no idea, sorry.

gleaming gorge Sep 21, 2020, 12:32 PM

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@wispy cape That was clear, thanks a lot for your explanation. There are lots of people talking about it but only very few make it to the job.

vapid mesa Sep 21, 2020, 1:50 PM

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What do you guys call the paper that describes the requirements of a digital product that you've agreed upon with the client?
Technical description? Technical documentation? What's the technical term for it?
Use case would be this: a client describes what they have in mind, but the description is unsatisfactory. You want to know if they happen to already have a document that describes everything they want in detail (perhaps something they've written together with a previous developer already). What would that document be called?

vast shoal Sep 21, 2020, 2:04 PM

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@vapid mesa A requirements specification

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_requirements_specification

Software requirements specification

A software requirements specification (SRS) is a description of a software system to be developed. It is modeled after business requirements specification (CONOPS), also known as a stakeholder requirements specification (StRS). The software requirements specification lays out...

vapid mesa Sep 21, 2020, 2:11 PM

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Technical specification (tech spec) works too, right?

vast shoal Sep 21, 2020, 2:15 PM

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That's not a term I've personally heard during my career. But anything is possible.

vapid mesa Sep 21, 2020, 2:17 PM

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Gotcha, thank you!

night rock Sep 21, 2020, 4:07 PM

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Everyone wants experience for work, but no one is willing to give experience 😑

stiff rock Sep 21, 2020, 4:12 PM

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does anyone know any career options in Canada

craggy elm Sep 21, 2020, 6:16 PM

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just put in my 2 weeks for a better position. this is going to be a long 2 weeks lol

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but man the stability will be so much better

vast shoal Sep 21, 2020, 7:19 PM

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@craggy elm 2 weeks? Try 3 months.

craggy elm Sep 21, 2020, 7:33 PM

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i can only imagine lol

scarlet pivot Sep 21, 2020, 7:33 PM

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Everyone wants experience for work, but no one is willing to give experience 😑
@night rock
Ok, how I can get experience?)

spice musk Sep 21, 2020, 8:00 PM

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@scarlet pivot You can always create and work on some of own personal projects. Depending on what field you want to get into you can create something related to that. That is one way to differentiate yourself from others, and give yourself a chance.

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Try to do some market research for jobs where you want to apply and see what stack/tech companies like to use.

little reef Sep 21, 2020, 8:21 PM

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How would i begina career out of python. I love automation and utilizing data. Any ideas?

tight nest Sep 21, 2020, 8:52 PM

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hey guys, I'm having a technical interview soon. They said I'd have to solve a 'data-focused programming problem'.
Does anyone know what that might mean?

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I practiced lots of basic computer science stuff like sorting, graphs, dfs, algorithms, recursion, but I'm not sure what 'data-focused' should mean

vast shoal Sep 21, 2020, 10:11 PM

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@craggy elm I put in my 3 months about 2.5 months ago, so I actually also only have two weeks left.

craggy elm Sep 21, 2020, 10:23 PM

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well, here's to 2 weeks left for both of us lol

vast shoal Sep 21, 2020, 10:24 PM

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Cheers.

white karma Sep 21, 2020, 10:29 PM

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Is a 2 month gap in employment worth mentioning on a resume, or is that insignificant enough to where it doesn’t really matter

vast shoal Sep 21, 2020, 10:30 PM

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I wouldn't lie on a resume, but I also wouldn't generally draw attention to something that isn't to my advantage.

mossy dew Sep 21, 2020, 10:33 PM

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im thinking of getting rid of short github links on my projects section, since they're already on my github already it'd be redundant right?
1 = title and technologies on 1 line, removed links
2 = title and technologies seperated
i know that quality > quantity for projects but i feel like since i only have 1 internship i gotta put more projects

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/339595755851612161/757727450603192360/3.png

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/339595755851612161/757727463252951080/4.png

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ive never heard of ripplematch

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is that some sorta scam like synergisticsIT?

topaz tartan Sep 21, 2020, 11:18 PM

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I mean i would rather prefer having links to specific projects as well

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do you want them to go through your repos in case there's only oneb specific project that they're really interested in looking at

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@mossy dew ^

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Also make sure to have good readmes on the projects you're trying to showcase

mossy dew Sep 21, 2020, 11:20 PM

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i see

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some1 said that apparently recruiters dont click links but idk

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which was a reason i considered them taking it off, but if they want to look at a specific project then ya id want the link

topaz tartan Sep 21, 2020, 11:21 PM

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I mean if someone from tech team is reviewing they would probably like to see a link

mossy dew Sep 21, 2020, 11:21 PM

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i might embed the link in the project title

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or it might be better to put it on the side

topaz tartan Sep 21, 2020, 11:22 PM

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embedding would work in PDFs, but in print written links would be preferable

brazen spruce Sep 21, 2020, 11:24 PM

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Hello everyone! Hope you all doing well! I'm a researcher from Florida, currently doing an independent research, focusing on a product that would make writing resume less painful.
I'm so grateful if you can spare like 3 minutes to fill up a very short survey for me. Thanks a lot!!!

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Here is the survey link: https://forms.gle/1uzzFXNCpE1TadYf7

Google Docs

Market Research September 2020

This is a survey for a non-profit research project. All your information will never be used or exposed in any other way, and individual responses will be deleted after the research is done.
Thank you very much for taking this survey.

regal trench Sep 22, 2020, 4:56 AM

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@vast elkhwa

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 6:17 AM

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What can I achieve as a python coder

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I am new to coding

spice musk Sep 22, 2020, 6:31 AM

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You can achieve anything you want.

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Sky's the limit

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 6:32 AM

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But what career options are there for Python

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I know it is Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning

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But I want to know more

spice musk Sep 22, 2020, 6:35 AM

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Well there's a lot more you can build with it. To name a few more Web programming, security/networking software, embedded systems, server programming and so on.

distant crow Sep 22, 2020, 6:38 AM

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and robotics

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I guess finance too, and a lot of science fields where numerical computing and signals processing are needed

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 6:40 AM

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But web programming is better with Java script

sturdy fable Sep 22, 2020, 6:43 AM

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not biased at all here, but robotics is the most fun :p

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 7:33 AM

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@vapid jay Javascript is primarily a client-side language. Code that runs in the user's browser. In webdev, Python is primarily a backend language, i. e. code that runs in the web server. Neither is better than the other, they work in concert with each other.

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 7:34 AM

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WOW thanks @vast shoal

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 9:13 AM

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hello everybody, i am a programming enthusiast, i am learning python , i want to become an AI pro , can u tell me a road map to do so, i mean things to learn and from where to learn?

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 10:04 AM

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@vapid jay It depends a little on what kind of AI you want to do.

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AI is a broad field.

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 10:39 AM

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@vast shoal can you please give me a general idea??

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 10:43 AM

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A general idea about what?

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What do you want to use AI for?

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 4:16 PM

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Hi I am looking for some temporary work to gain some experience and earn a little bit of money. Does anybody know of someone who is hiring? (Pay can be anything, within reason)

dusky garnet Sep 22, 2020, 4:42 PM

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yes same also here

gritty crystal Sep 22, 2020, 4:50 PM

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@vapid jay maybe we need some freelance job. Can anybody recommend a ideal site for this?

dusky garnet Sep 22, 2020, 5:19 PM

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yes

night rock Sep 22, 2020, 6:08 PM

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I don't think we can do that here @vapid jay

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But yeah freelance works seems pretty difficult to come by, I just don't understand how you're supposed to get started. I've only been offering for about 2 days but still it seems so impossible. I mean, if anyone here is hiring.

summer girder Sep 22, 2020, 6:08 PM

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@worn mirage hello looking for help in python?

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:11 PM

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Some jobs (referencing fullstack jobs, which include Django as a requirement) require "knowledge or experience of PostgreSQL"

Does this mean experience of writing raw SQL queries? Because with Django / Flask the queries are done with an ORM with no raw SQL in sight. What are they wanting?

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:11 PM

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There's really no reason to get into finance as a profession if you gave interest in python, better off getting into data science

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:14 PM

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@vapid jay If I was recruiting a developer, I would expect them to have at least a basic grasp of SQL syntax. Even if it's abstracted away in an ORM framework, sometimes you might need to manually interact directly with the database to get information or solve a problem, and if you don't know SQL, you're very limited in this regard. I think they might also be referring to knowledge of how to install and configure Postgres.

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:15 PM

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I see, thank you @vast shoal I guess it's best to understand SQL before you even use an ORM, because otherwise you don't even understand what you are coding 😄

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I'll brush up on that.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:16 PM

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What's an orm?

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Is that just a gui?

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:16 PM

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@vapid jay I find that it's a good principle to understand at least one abstraction layer down from the one you're working on.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:16 PM

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Understand it, but don't work on it; that's someone else's job lul

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:17 PM

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So, if you're working with an ORM framework, it's good to know SQL. If you're working with a language that manages memory for you (like Python for example), it's good to know how it works when you have to do it manually (like in C, for example)

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@tidal wave ORM = Object Relational Mapping. It's a software library that maps database tables to class instances. So instead of having to interact directly with the database, you can just modify an object and tell the ORM library to persist it for you.

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:20 PM

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Learning C for Python? Uh Oh 😂

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:20 PM

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Just to understand how memory allocation actually works.

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It's hidden from you in Python, but it's still happening beneath the hood.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:21 PM

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I agree tbh,

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:21 PM

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Yeah, doing something practical like that would be good. I'm currently on React, but after I wanna learn more of a low-level-language

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:21 PM

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Even knowing basic vba helped me understand python

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:21 PM

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Would Java be a good option?

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:22 PM

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@vapid jay Good idea.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:22 PM

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In terms of declaring data types etc

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Well, not Java.

fervent hamlet Sep 22, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Java isnt that low and is garbage collected

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Yeah

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Garbage collected?

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:22 PM

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It's similar to Python in that sense.

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Yeah, memory is automatically allocated and cleaned up for you.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:22 PM

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Python is garbage collected too, python 2 was not iirc

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Python 2 is as well.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:23 PM

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At some point it wasn't I meant

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Btw, where do you guys learn about these topics e.g. memory management etc? Computer science in university?

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Because I know nothing about it 😄

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Comes with age

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Lul

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:23 PM

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@vapid jay I think C is a good choice. It's relatively minimal, so you won't get distracted with OOP concepts and whatnot.

fervent hamlet Sep 22, 2020, 8:24 PM

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The internet is a wonderful place, theres free resources on anything

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CS50 is free, pretty sure it covers that at some point

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:24 PM

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Yeah, it does.

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:24 PM

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Oh yeah I heard of that

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:24 PM

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CS50 is a good course.

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:24 PM

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I'm starting university in about a year but I've never had a 'theory' computer science lesson in my life lmao

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:25 PM

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CS50 is a nice intro.

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It assumes nothing about your previous experience.

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And it takes each topic slow.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:25 PM

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I learned about it in units personally but

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Uni is whack imo

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Just learning free online is the way to go

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:26 PM

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@vapid jay https://online-learning.harvard.edu/course/cs50-introduction-computer-science?delta=0

Harvard Online Courses

CS50: Introduction to Computer Science

An introduction to the intellectual enterprises of computer science and the art of programming.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:26 PM

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Or paid

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:26 PM

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@vast shoal Thank you 🙂

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:26 PM

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This is about as good as it gets for free online, tbh

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:26 PM

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Oh wow ive actually been in that lecture hall

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:26 PM

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Yeah I heard in uni they barely teach you any coding, maybe a bit of Java or Haskell. The rest is just maths / theory

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:27 PM

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@vapid jay That was not true for me.

shadow moss Sep 22, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Few languages still require programmer memory management

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:27 PM

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I had tons of programming courses.

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 8:27 PM

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Hmmm interesting

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I guess it varies

shadow moss Sep 22, 2020, 8:27 PM

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but yes, it's good to understand

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:27 PM

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All modern languages have memory abstractions, but it's still good to know how they work under the hood, so you can use them correctly and efficiently.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:28 PM

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Generally the only thing you actually want from uni is math and theory tbh, the actual coding courses usually lag behind industry practices

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And not to mention you likely need to build yourself up before you would need detailed coding if you don't know these concepts by the time you apply

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:29 PM

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I took math, logic and theoretical CS, but that was only a smaller fraction of the courses I took.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:30 PM

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Time value of money wise , better off learning basics then taking a path specific to your personal career goals

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Whether that be uni, bootcamp, reading online, etc

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Well I guess depends on your country too, uni is expensive in usa

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:31 PM

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I also had introduction to programming, data structures and algorithms, OOP, systems programming, parallel programmingm etc. And a bunch of electives like graphics, programming language design, functional languages, AI, etc.

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Those were all fairly timeless.

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Not really bound by current tech.

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 8:32 PM

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And all on linked in learning for 60$ a month

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:32 PM

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I mean, sure, we used Standard ML instead of Haskell in functional languages, but the principles are still the same.

marsh wind Sep 22, 2020, 8:39 PM

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you might need to manually interact directly with the database to get information or solve a problem, and if you don't know SQL, you're very limited in this regard. I think they might also be referring to knowledge of how to install and configure Postgres.
@vast shoal also in postgres for example there is lot more than just orm and basic queriss

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Stuff like triggers, db side data processing, some concepts like composite primary keys, extensions

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If they want a dev more than just interact with db over orm there are plentt of things

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And often devs lack that profound db knowledge

shadow moss Sep 22, 2020, 8:41 PM

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even just basic SQL

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nothing is worse then dev who can't handle basic SQL because it's not in their ORM

vast shoal Sep 22, 2020, 8:43 PM

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A db admin would of course be ideal, but that would be icing on the cake. But I think it's reasonable to expect even a junior dev to have at least basic grasp of SQL.

marsh wind Sep 22, 2020, 8:47 PM

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Yeah they can lack even that

shut geyser Sep 22, 2020, 8:48 PM

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Basic SQL is covered in ORM usually, it's very difficult when you need something special, because you have to know basic SQL + advanced enough to be outside of the ORM

marsh wind Sep 22, 2020, 8:49 PM

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DB admin is great for designing and managing it, but the knowledge what allows dev to

ask adm for correct features
decide when instead of doing simple sql/orm query and backend processing for data it's better to write complex query to make db return what you need by making that processing /preparing on db side

topaz tartan Sep 22, 2020, 8:50 PM

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wrong channel

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#web-development

stoic mountain Sep 22, 2020, 8:50 PM

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oop i just realised

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sorry

vapid jay Sep 22, 2020, 9:19 PM

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Hello all, I have no idea how to start, i currently played around and built a soduko solver so i pretty common with basic stuff, I would like to land a job and idk how to learn the stuff required

tidal wave Sep 22, 2020, 9:46 PM

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Depends on your age

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If you are young, its easier to get an internship as a start imo

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Just lookup how to do / work with everything on a job application for the position u want, and then Tailor ur resume to that

dusky garnet Sep 22, 2020, 9:54 PM

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Hi i am 15 and was looking for any kind of work but want to be paid a bit. Any jobs there ?

mossy latch Sep 22, 2020, 10:00 PM

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Anybody worked as an outsourced consultant ?

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from main employer , outsourcing to various employees , to projects etc ?

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Im getting a little scared of how this stuff works...want to move out eventually but if the contractor would dismiss me or something then im back in the same pool again..

teal wagon Sep 22, 2020, 11:45 PM

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Hey guys, anyone have opinions on coding bootcamps? Are they worth it? In terms of time/money - I'd have to take time off work to complete a course.
I'm currently working in IT but my role has minimal development and I have no real mentors for this stuff. I want to find a role in back-end / full stack dev eventually.

torn latch Sep 22, 2020, 11:59 PM

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@teal wagon I have moved from a non-it space (procurement) to insights, looking for the next step to be to a data scientist role, and have done a few bootcamps during the time. From my experience, the certifications from those bootcamps carry little to no weight. There is probably a million different certifications that you could do so employers dont appear to put much weight in them.

The skills you learn in them, however, are what is important. Being half way through my transition into DS, the thing that was the most valuable from those bootcamps was the ability to put some of the learning into my day job, to demonstrate the skills I had acquired and how I had applied them. Personal projects that you can show in recruitment processes carry a lot of weight. In an ideal world, I would have loved to setup a website for myself, with some data science projects live on it, to be able to include on my resume.

Hope that helps a bit

teal wagon Sep 23, 2020, 12:48 AM

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@torn latch thanks for your thoughts! That's very helpful

vapid jay Sep 23, 2020, 4:58 AM

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@vast shoal if you dont mind me asking what uni did you go to?

serene obsidian Sep 23, 2020, 5:00 AM

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Anyone know if python development can be a paid part time endeavor or is it typically strictly full-time?

elfin abyss Sep 23, 2020, 8:36 AM

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I mean theres always freelancing

balmy furnace Sep 23, 2020, 8:48 AM

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!close

scarlet pivot Sep 23, 2020, 9:01 AM

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Hi everyone, I want to start developing a dating site for a client, but I don't know what value to offer him. The backend will be written in django, the interface - in bootstrap and javascript (vue js). Simultaneous translation chats should be included. So how much can such a site cost and how long may it take to create it?

vast shoal Sep 23, 2020, 9:05 AM

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@vapid jay Umeå University, in Sweden

vapid jay Sep 23, 2020, 9:05 AM

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ahhh okay

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i am learning python since 02.2020 and wondering how much time it will take to find a job in data science, and if it makes sense to this path any further?

vast shoal Sep 23, 2020, 9:31 AM

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@vapid jay Hello.

marsh wind Sep 23, 2020, 10:08 AM

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i am learning python since 02.2020 and wondering how much time it will take to find a job in data science, and if it makes sense to this path any further?
@vapid jay depends. Data Science is much more than just python. What's your background/degree?

junior merlin Sep 23, 2020, 10:57 AM

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Hey ppl, I have just started learning Python, can someone tell me how much time will it take for me to become an expert in it

vast shoal Sep 23, 2020, 10:58 AM

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@junior merlin It depends more on how you use the time than how much time you spend on it. You could become ready to work as a professional in a year or two, but you could also spend 10 years and never become ready if you don't use the time constructively.

fervent hamlet Sep 23, 2020, 11:34 AM

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Data science positions usually ask for a phd

marsh wind Sep 23, 2020, 11:53 AM

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not really

crude crown Sep 23, 2020, 12:07 PM

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it really depends on the position

potent fog Sep 23, 2020, 1:00 PM

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already I have a well wisher who has promised to send me D1 Mini ESP32 Board + BMP180 Board .

vast shoal Sep 23, 2020, 2:06 PM

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@little reef This is a channel for discussion about Python careers and the world of work, not a technical help channel.

little reef Sep 23, 2020, 2:09 PM

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My apologies

vast shoal Sep 23, 2020, 2:14 PM

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That's alright.

vapid jay Sep 23, 2020, 2:26 PM

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How much will be the average salary for a python programmer that makes normal sie projects?

vast shoal Sep 23, 2020, 2:29 PM

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It varies from country to country, but where I am, I am in the top 5% of the general population, salary-wise.

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I have an M. Sc. in CS and about 7-8 years of professional experience, though.

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So I didn't start out at this level.

night rock Sep 23, 2020, 2:49 PM

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What?? Top 5%?? Woah

rancid ravine Sep 23, 2020, 3:08 PM

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Hello, everyone, (sorry in advance for the long message)
I am a self-taught junior python web developer. I have a good understanding of python, Django, some familiarity with Pandas, I've done some SQL, and I have a good understanding of relational databases. I have also done some JS and jQuery, and I have worked on some projects which are in production (for the deployment: classic nginx, gunicorn, letsencrypte…on Linux server via SSH).
I am ready to work with a lower salary within a more experienced team to gain experience. And I am ready to dive into documentation whenever needed. I’ve worked hard to learn to code (I have followed uni courses, online courses, and tutorials, I read Pythonistas blog & articles).
For the moment, in France (where I am living), Django is not as popular as elsewhere (they are somehow sticking to PHP) so it is hard to get a job. Especially with the DOVID-19 crisis. I have no geographical limits and can move to other cities or countries if needed.
If you could help somehow, I will be grateful.

night rock Sep 23, 2020, 3:12 PM

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It seems like everyone is a self taught python web developer 😑

rancid ravine Sep 23, 2020, 3:27 PM

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If you are serious and rigorous, you may have as much knowledge as a graduate person, just by following seriously your path. Some good Harvard lectures on CS are accessible online, right. You can follow them. But you are still a self-taught. Cuz you do not need a prof to give you all you need, you do it like bro 😉

craggy elm Sep 23, 2020, 4:38 PM

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there's a lot you can do purely by being self taught

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i would know since that's me lol

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to be fair, my mech. eng. degree had me learn a tiny bit of matlab, but by that point, it was a worthless class for me because i already knew how program in general at the time

shadow moss Sep 23, 2020, 4:53 PM

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Sure but recruiters love degrees

dusky garnet Sep 23, 2020, 4:54 PM

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anybody have any jobs pls dm me

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any jobs

craggy elm Sep 23, 2020, 4:59 PM

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entirely true, but i was just saying that you can get into software engineering by purely having taught yourself how to do it; the main factor is how much you're serious about it

white karma Sep 23, 2020, 5:01 PM

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Whatever it takes

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That’s how I feel about it

night rock Sep 23, 2020, 6:44 PM

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A guy is offering me $10 to rebuild Fiverr

craggy elm Sep 23, 2020, 6:50 PM

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it's just code, bro. it's easy

white karma Sep 23, 2020, 6:54 PM

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Just stackoverflow it

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No biggie

soft mortar Sep 23, 2020, 7:34 PM

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yall know what colleges offer the best pay for cs after undergrad besides berkeley and all the other top tier stuff bc its so competitive

shadow moss Sep 23, 2020, 7:50 PM

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if you did not go top CS school, your pay will not be determined by school after that point

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it will be highly variable depending on location, type of job you land and field of company you got a job with

runic salmon Sep 23, 2020, 7:51 PM

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Hello, I'm Turkish and I'm trying to learn Python

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Im noob

proud zinc Sep 23, 2020, 8:00 PM

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im also noob

night rock Sep 23, 2020, 8:44 PM

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I don't see what you being Turkish has got to do with it @runic salmon

white karma Sep 23, 2020, 9:09 PM

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What sort of questions should I be anticipating to be asked at an entry level/junior web dev interview?

inner wrenBOT Sep 23, 2020, 9:24 PM

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You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

white karma Sep 23, 2020, 9:27 PM

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@dire sable I think I understand what you mean

inner wrenBOT Sep 23, 2020, 9:29 PM

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You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

white karma Sep 23, 2020, 9:29 PM

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I saw what you posted

runic salmon Sep 23, 2020, 9:30 PM

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I want to learn English

white karma Sep 23, 2020, 9:33 PM

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@dire sable I’ll study up on those again then, thanks

mossy latch Sep 23, 2020, 9:57 PM

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Anybody has a good idea being good on a general interview? Probably with star questions

vapid jay Sep 23, 2020, 10:36 PM

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hi

runic salmon Sep 23, 2020, 10:36 PM

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I want to learn English
I am turkish

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Hi

fervent hamlet Sep 24, 2020, 1:52 AM

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Cracking the Coding interview is a popular book on interview puzzles and how to do them

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And also has general tips on taking technical interviews

craggy wave Sep 24, 2020, 4:42 AM

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@potent fog We do not allow that kind of recruitment here.

errant jacinth Sep 24, 2020, 7:55 AM

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do you think sending a youtube channel with videos of me coding, and explaining how I'm doing things to an employer would benefit me? I've been making videos, and I've realised when I am talking it through on video and explaining it, I find writing the code so easy. When there is a bug, because I am explaining it on video, and fixing shit real quick. Just wondering if an employer would even take the time to watch these videos ?

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the videos aren't really tutorials, more like me explaining the code I'm writing

vast shoal Sep 24, 2020, 8:19 AM

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@errant jacinth I would think that they probably wouldn't. At the very least not until you are already pretty far into the recruitment process.

craggy elm Sep 24, 2020, 12:13 PM

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i do rubberduck programming, but my girlfriend is usually my self-volunteered rubberduck

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it def helps

shadow moss Sep 24, 2020, 12:45 PM

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Maybe but doubt it. Recruiters are not going to watch the videos. No one got time for that.

orchid breach Sep 24, 2020, 2:20 PM

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Hey guys

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Im a solo software developer want to make a few bucks during this pandemic

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Anyome wanna hire me

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I wanna try developing a app from ground up for a small business comapny using flask

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Can anyome advise me what i should do

vast shoal Sep 24, 2020, 2:57 PM

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@vapid jay Recruitment is not allowed on this server. See the channel topic.

vapid jay Sep 24, 2020, 2:58 PM

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I'm sorry @vast shoal

vast shoal Sep 24, 2020, 2:58 PM

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That's ok.

kind pecan Sep 24, 2020, 3:17 PM

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Hey guys! You guys have probably seen a question like this before, or read a post like this on reddit/or some random tech forum--
Is programming becoming a trade? (like, graphic design- as there is an option to go to uni, but it's okay if you don't..)
Or a harder to get in a job without a degree from the saturation of people being interested in programming?
Do you really need to major in cs to work at a good job? Can a ccnp, csce, comptia certification with a basic bachelor degree ( not related) help you?

craggy elm Sep 24, 2020, 3:44 PM

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programming is a giant, diverse field. getting a job is going to depend on the job specifics and if you know enough about the tools at that specific job. companies do like degrees (i didn't get a degree in CS, so you don't specifically need a CS degree to get a good job), but i've no clue about certifications

vast shoal Sep 24, 2020, 4:35 PM

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@kind pecan It's definitely possible to get a job without a degree and a lot of people do, but I'd still say that going to uni is the more standard route.

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Certificates won't hurt, but there's no guarantee they will count for something. Probably depends on the individual employer.

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What you're normally recommended to do if you don't have a degree is to build a portfolio of personal projects.

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You can also gather useful experience that you may be able to use as a credential by contributing to open source projects.

spiral bloom Sep 24, 2020, 5:05 PM

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What does a Software Automation Engineer exactly do? Is there a lot of coding involved? Anything else I need to know?

vapid jay Sep 24, 2020, 8:57 PM

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Hello, I have a question:
What's the secret of getting 4,000$-4,500$ as a junior fullstack web developer after a bootcamp, on the 1st month? why others get less?

white karma Sep 24, 2020, 9:04 PM

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Depends on the company

vapid jay Sep 24, 2020, 9:14 PM

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just wondering im coding a game called The Goldylock Zone and was wondering if anyone could help

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please DM if yes

plucky holly Sep 24, 2020, 9:16 PM

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@vapid jay $4k in USD?

vapid jay Sep 24, 2020, 9:16 PM

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yes @plucky holly

plucky holly Sep 24, 2020, 9:16 PM

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@vapid jay what area of the country?

vapid jay Sep 24, 2020, 9:16 PM

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Israel, center

plucky holly Sep 24, 2020, 9:17 PM

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Oh in Israel? Yeah idk

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but if you were working in America say on the north east coast $4k seems a bit low for someone that is junior but has some portfolio

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really depends on the company and your portfolio

stable solstice Sep 24, 2020, 9:54 PM

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Hey guys. What should I learn in order to be ready to try and get an entry level developer job?

silent pewter Sep 24, 2020, 10:01 PM

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Python, Flask or Django, and a front end framework like React or Vue.

stable solstice Sep 24, 2020, 10:10 PM

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So Learn Python + React or Vue

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Then I should be ready to go for an entry level position

distant crow Sep 24, 2020, 11:09 PM

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what kind of developer?

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while I'd agree, learn Python + React/Vue if you want to be fullstack, if you're applying for an entry level backend developer job, you may be better off focusing on just python

topaz tartan Sep 24, 2020, 11:41 PM

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I mean web developer jobs are p good to get your foot in the door

stable solstice Sep 25, 2020, 1:39 AM

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Web developer

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Interesting.

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What should I do for that specifically

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I want to start making money and learn too

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But ofc I'll learn on my own

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I'll keep that in mind as well. Ill try to learn both. But now am exoning a web developer sounds interesting as a first step

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I was kinda lost on where to go first so that'd be nice. What should I learn for that tho

clear mauve Sep 25, 2020, 8:15 AM

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can someone help me with road maps for data science and machine learning ??

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also some projects that can help build portfolio ?????

vivid dock Sep 25, 2020, 10:09 AM

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I started out as a intern webdeveloper. Making report pages. Got a full time position as frontend, left them for another job where I basically just said I did mostly frontend, but like the concept of working backend -> Now i'm a backend developer @topaz tartan @stable solstice

craggy elm Sep 25, 2020, 12:05 PM

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what's the main allure for frontend jobs? i personally just don't like dealing with aesthetics, but i can obviously do it if i need to lol

vivid dock Sep 25, 2020, 12:23 PM

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You don't need to make it look good yourself, if your site has a designer

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current job have multiple designers & ux. they draw up the entire thing, you just have to make it look like the drawings while still being functionable, responsive, and accessible to everyone

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While smaller companies might give you a magic cap of "do everything", including ux, accessibility, mobile, resposibility, design, frontend, functionality and so on. Because you're "frontend".

livid compass Sep 25, 2020, 12:25 PM

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I;m a MS inter

distant crow Sep 25, 2020, 1:12 PM

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you also don't need to make it look good yourself if you use a component library that already does it for you.
lacking in individuality and boring looking? yes
better than I can do? also yes

stable solstice Sep 25, 2020, 1:20 PM

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@vivid dock So what language did you learn in order to become a web developer.

vivid dock Sep 25, 2020, 1:22 PM

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Js

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js -> react -> svelte, then became .net core backend

stable solstice Sep 25, 2020, 1:30 PM

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So I should start learning JS, React, and Svelte in order to become a web developer then? .net core backend can come later?

viral ridge Sep 25, 2020, 2:11 PM

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lol, I just woke up from a dream where a girl said she was launching a space rocket with "bitonry", I'm like "bitonry?". she sayd "pythonry, i use python." I laugh and say, lol, launching a rocket with python, we use C.

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just some irrelevent info for ya

topaz tartan Sep 25, 2020, 5:13 PM

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#offtopic-

north spade Sep 25, 2020, 5:14 PM

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does anyone know if software engineering makes a lot of money?

white karma Sep 25, 2020, 5:20 PM

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Depends on where you live

versed coral Sep 25, 2020, 5:49 PM

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yes they do

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but it does depend

night rock Sep 25, 2020, 6:00 PM

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They do make a lot of money but in some places that profession is oversaturated

patent gorge Sep 25, 2020, 6:04 PM

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Data science or web dev?

marsh wind Sep 25, 2020, 6:09 PM

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Whichever pleases you

patent gorge Sep 25, 2020, 6:17 PM

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For a noobie, to make some money

vapid jay Sep 25, 2020, 7:30 PM

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😟

📎 unknown.png

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that is funny lol

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anyway i have question. How to deal with colleague (head of IT) who thinks they know it all. I am beginner, but they act like they know how to program and boast that they have write this software and that software, but in reality they just know how to talk, and dont know the difficulty of code or how to put basic line of code together

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I am beginner for the job, since first job, but i know how to code, application and stuff from scratch

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Should i just put them straight? Someone says me "if you always listen them, they will walk all over you"

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Plz advice me

white karma Sep 25, 2020, 7:38 PM

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Stick to your own work and let them mess up

vapid jay Sep 25, 2020, 7:39 PM

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the problem is they know how to speak good english and use all very fancy words, but for me is difficult to express this in the same way because i dont have so much skill in this

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I have done all the work assigned to me, but sometimes they tell me to do something like x or like y. And worst is when they try to argue something which is wrong, and when they act like they have been there in my pos and done everything (which they have not clearly)

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Not that they are not a nice person. They are kind, but this attitude of Mr I know everything i dont like

white karma Sep 25, 2020, 7:42 PM

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The best thing you can really do in that situation is to keep a timeline of all the work you’ve done in a given situation, what has and hasn’t worked and the suggestions and arguments they’ve made

vapid jay Sep 25, 2020, 7:43 PM

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hmmm

white karma Sep 25, 2020, 7:44 PM

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Are they trying to make you look bad or are they just boasting about skills they don’t have? That should have been my first question

vapid jay Sep 25, 2020, 7:44 PM

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Just boasting about their skills they dont have

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I even know friends in senior dev position who can prove my point if i want to show them, but i guess i just leave and let them be correct

white karma Sep 25, 2020, 7:47 PM

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If it ever escalates to them trying to mess with you then I would say to put them in their place, for now just keep working and letting your work speak for itself, just make sure they can’t take credit for anything you do

vapid jay Sep 25, 2020, 7:48 PM

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just make sure they can’t take credit for anything you do
yeah sure, and that is good point i never thought of this

white karma Sep 25, 2020, 7:49 PM

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It’s something I learned the hard way in another job, never forgot it though

vapid jay Sep 25, 2020, 7:50 PM

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Thanks

marsh wind Sep 25, 2020, 8:01 PM

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For a noobie, to make some money
@patent gorge then web unless you have strong data science background

vast shoal Sep 25, 2020, 10:24 PM

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@dusky garnet This is not a job board, it's a place for career-related discussions.

dusky garnet Sep 25, 2020, 10:25 PM

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@vast shoal keep ur hair on

vast shoal Sep 25, 2020, 10:26 PM

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@dusky garnet I do. But that doesn't change the fact that you should refrain from advertising your services here.

dusky garnet Sep 25, 2020, 10:26 PM

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lol chill i get the point

vast shoal Sep 25, 2020, 10:27 PM

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Ok, good.

dusky garnet Sep 25, 2020, 10:27 PM

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know 2

vast shoal Sep 25, 2020, 10:28 PM

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Not sure what that means.

dusky garnet Sep 25, 2020, 10:40 PM

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good

vapid jay Sep 25, 2020, 10:54 PM

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Is it actually true that most developer jobs come through connections and the people you know? If so, how does someone even start with meeting others and collaborating? I'm 17.

vast shoal Sep 25, 2020, 10:56 PM

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@vapid jay I don't think that's true. Most jobs probably come from applying to job ads.

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Some jobs come from connections, but there is such high demand that I think it's far from a requirement.

vapid jay Sep 25, 2020, 10:57 PM

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Okay! That clears it up. Thanks 🙂

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Also, if I was to make a portfolio for a junior position, how many projects do you guys think is viable? I'm making 1 good-quality Django project (I think) and debating about making 2 in total. Do you think that's enough?

vast shoal Sep 25, 2020, 10:59 PM

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I don't think the number really matters. The more experience you have, the better, but think quality over quantity.

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Consider contributing to open source projects as well, that's a good way to get experience that is relatively close to professional work experience.

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In the sense that you need to collaborate with others, probably go through some kind of review process to merge changes, work with a VCS, etc.

nova hornet Sep 26, 2020, 1:07 AM

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Hello I want to get my masters in software engineering. Where do I begin and what should I start learning?

wispy cape Sep 26, 2020, 1:09 AM

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Didn't your uni give you a program ?

cloud pendant Sep 26, 2020, 4:00 AM

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@nova hornet preferably programing. jk jk jk look at the masters program you want to attend and look at their course requirements

round lava Sep 26, 2020, 5:27 AM

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for contributing to open source does the size of the project matter, like would my time be better spent elsewhere if i'm only contributing to someones small side project on open source? compared to spending the time to learn how to contribute to a bigger, more popular project?

dry sapphire Sep 26, 2020, 5:36 AM

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for contributing to open source does the size of the project matter, like would my time be better spent elsewhere if i'm only contributing to someones small side project on open source? compared to spending the time to learn how to contribute to a bigger, more popular project?
@round lava I would say it kinda does

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in the sense that larger projects are more likely to be known by employers (assuming this is for career purposes)

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practically speaking, too

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larger projects will probably have better processes

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like how PRs are reviewed

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and adherence to conventions

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etc.

round lava Sep 26, 2020, 5:49 AM

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kk that makes sense so biting the bullet to take on a larger project provides a ton of benefits that smaller projects dont have but like with all things in software engineering there are tradeoffs

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thx any input from anyone else is welcome

prisma sand Sep 26, 2020, 7:21 AM

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Can someone help me with this? I'm going for my first software developer job, looking for one in python, but I don't have a degree. So I was wondering what project ideas would be good to use in a portfolio to show that I can code in python, please @ me if you know any, thanks

sturdy surge Sep 26, 2020, 7:35 AM

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hello guys can anyone help me with my survey? its for my software engineering class
https://forms.gle/ZW9fgDrj6Fx8br6FA

Google Docs

Software Engineering Survey

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thanks whoever answers

sonic ether Sep 26, 2020, 8:06 AM

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hello, do you have some good links/websites to learn about selenium/chromedriver. thanks! i face some issues with the <div> and the clicking on buttons. thanks!

winged radish Sep 26, 2020, 8:36 AM

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Hey can I do a job as a 16 year old??

craggy elm Sep 26, 2020, 9:20 AM

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probably not legally lol

spice musk Sep 26, 2020, 9:23 AM

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Probably depends on the country

elfin abyss Sep 26, 2020, 10:22 AM

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Mhm

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In Australia thats certainly legal dunno what the deal would be where you are though

distant crow Sep 26, 2020, 11:45 AM

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for comparison, in the UK, 16 year olds can work, there are laws specifically for 16 and 17 year olds that limit how many hours they're allowed to work, I think the rules are quite reasonable and programming/office type jobs fit within those rules comfortably. I don't know if other countries have similar

sonic ether Sep 26, 2020, 12:52 PM

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hello, do you have some good links/websites to learn about selenium/chromedriver. thanks! i face some issues with the <div> and the clicking on buttons. thanks!
@sonic ether someone?

unborn cypress Sep 26, 2020, 1:59 PM

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Hello. I am just wondering if anybody could generously give me some design tips on my "portfolio"(harrisonduffield.com). Apologies if this is the wrong channel(I noticed some other people have asked this before though when I searched). I don't think it is too bad when used on mobile(?), but think it could do with a major overhaul on desktop(in particular I don't think the boxes and header proportions are correct, but should they exist to begin with?), saying that I have little to no fashion sense. I could do with some unbiased and knowledgeable advice on this, as I understand I should probably be beginning to think about placements for next year. Thanks.

swift tundra Sep 26, 2020, 2:18 PM

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Hey can I do a job as a 16 year old??
@winged radish I belive in America you can work at the age of 16 but not full hours like adults can you arent allowed to work past 10 PM I belive

true harness Sep 26, 2020, 2:22 PM

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in most places you can get a permit to work normal hours i think

neat grove Sep 26, 2020, 2:35 PM

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@rich jolt we don't allow advertising paid work here

rich jolt Sep 26, 2020, 2:37 PM

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Sorry

brittle prism Sep 26, 2020, 3:47 PM

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As a beginner, what's the best way to gain experience for work related projects?

icy anvil Sep 26, 2020, 8:22 PM

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read great code

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https://docs.python-guide.org/writing/reading/

Reading Great Code — The Hitchhiker's Guide to Python

crude crown Sep 26, 2020, 8:54 PM

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Hello all, I'm looking to revamp my résume. Is anyone aware of particularly interesting resources that might help on this?

mild zenith Sep 26, 2020, 10:08 PM

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@crude crown The folks over in #career-advice might be able to help you on that

crude crown Sep 26, 2020, 10:08 PM

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This is #career-advice right? lemon_thinking

alpine vector Sep 26, 2020, 11:29 PM

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what are some python freelancing jobs to get into? i've started django and after finishing the first introductory lesson, i found it somewhat boring. I'm thinking of continuing anyways and maybe it will be more fun when i start making my own projects but I'd still like to hear about other branches of freelancing with python.

turbid ridge Sep 26, 2020, 11:31 PM

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GWchinaSakuraThinking

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Is it even possible to get a job without a diploma?

true harness Sep 26, 2020, 11:32 PM

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of course

alpine vector Sep 26, 2020, 11:33 PM

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especially for freelancing, I don't think people care very much for the level of education completed by a freelancer and just care about the service that they deliver

distant crow Sep 26, 2020, 11:34 PM

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backend dev is also fine without a degree, just need to build experience

turbid ridge Sep 26, 2020, 11:39 PM

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huh, cool :)

wraith dagger Sep 26, 2020, 11:53 PM

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I have a debate with a friend

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I think that not everyone is meant to be a programmer. They can learn to program

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but if he/she doesn't have the skill

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then he'll just be average or bad

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he thinks the opposite

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He thinks that with enough practice, anyone can be anything

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dice_1 : Me

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dice_2 : his

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answer by putting one of these

distant crow Sep 27, 2020, 12:18 AM

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I'd agree with you partly. I think it's a question of effort. Some people find it easier than others, but I think in most cases, there isn't a ceiling like what you're suggesting - that someone will be average at best

thorny thorn Sep 27, 2020, 12:19 AM

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Now I just hope I have the “skill” 😂

distant crow Sep 27, 2020, 12:19 AM

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but there could be "would probably be more suited to a different focus"

crude crown Sep 27, 2020, 12:19 AM

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I think such a ceiling exists.

distant crow Sep 27, 2020, 12:20 AM

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i think there is one in practice, it becomes inadvisable or impractical at a certain point. but I would caution anyone trying to define exactly what or where that ceiling is

crude crown Sep 27, 2020, 12:20 AM

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it's typically filled by the people that drop out from college degrees. Having that said, there's alternative paths for sure.

distant crow Sep 27, 2020, 12:20 AM

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the other complexity is that a career in programming isn't always about the programming. and there are a lot of different skills needed outside writing code

crude crown Sep 27, 2020, 12:21 AM

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most definitely indeed, there's a really big component of "social engineering" involved in working as a programmer nowadays

distant crow Sep 27, 2020, 12:21 AM

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so it depends what the question is asking. if it's saying "not everyone is meant to write code", that's different to "not everyone is meant to have and progress in a programming career"

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at some point a lot of programmers end up in management too, and you can get to that stage through other means as well, like you said

crude crown Sep 27, 2020, 12:22 AM

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I think the question was that first one.

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and it wasn't about whether they were meant, but rather if they are capable at all.

#

I've met people like that before and they're not necessarily "dumb".

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otoh, one of the... simplest persons I've met in the past few years was working as a web developer, so yeah.

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but this is just my opinion.

wraith dagger Sep 27, 2020, 12:26 AM

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No, dumb isn't the word

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is just that it isn't really there thing

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like some people are afraid of public speaking

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while others or not

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this can change, ofc

#

but programming

#

you can learn it

crude crown Sep 27, 2020, 12:27 AM

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fear is natural and you can overcome it typically

wraith dagger Sep 27, 2020, 12:27 AM

#

fear is natural and you can overcome it typically
@crude crown Yeah, that's what I said

#

You can learn to conquere

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the fear

#

but programming

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you can learn it

#

but you won't nececerely be good at it, even if you practiced for 3 years

crude crown Sep 27, 2020, 12:28 AM

#

yeah, that ceiling most definitely exists

#

that's what soon to be product managers or engineering managers face and start pivoting to these roles ASAP.

#

(I've written this last sentence half-jokingly.)

distant crow Sep 27, 2020, 12:34 AM

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I don't think it's a hard ceiling, but I do think that it could be substantially not worth the time investment to achieve

#

which... might be saying the same thing

crude crown Sep 27, 2020, 12:37 AM

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yeah

wraith dagger Sep 27, 2020, 12:51 AM

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ok, thos who thinks it is skills

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use the 1 dice

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those who think it's practice

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use the 2 dice

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I'll graph this in matplotlib

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 1:32 AM

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I'm 15 and I want to do freelance work preferably Discord bot development, w h e r e

naive mortar Sep 27, 2020, 2:03 AM

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I don't think there will be many oppertunities in that

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as in most people won't pay you

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 2:04 AM

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I earned 95$ by building 1 bot wdym

naive mortar Sep 27, 2020, 2:04 AM

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because there are also services like mee6 that allow you to set up a bot without coding

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I earned 95$ by building 1 bot wdym
@vapid jay I rest my case, how? I wanna know!

#

what was it for?

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 2:05 AM

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For 1 server with 1k members, the concept was unique not hard to do

naive mortar Sep 27, 2020, 2:05 AM

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ok

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 2:05 AM

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The project owner is quite wealthy too

naive mortar Sep 27, 2020, 2:05 AM

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nice

buoyant vapor Sep 27, 2020, 2:06 AM

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quite lucky there but thats nice

naive mortar Sep 27, 2020, 2:06 AM

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I shall now join random servers and try to get paid making a bot for them

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 2:06 AM

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Good luck

buoyant vapor Sep 27, 2020, 2:06 AM

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i think is good but i dont think is recommended just my opinion

glad oak Sep 27, 2020, 2:09 AM

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It’s basically like freelance web dev but more niche: gotta market your skills, branding, etc

tall trellis Sep 27, 2020, 3:07 AM

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D-E-E-Z

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 3:26 AM

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Nuts

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ha gottem

harsh patio Sep 27, 2020, 3:28 AM

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Do any of you do freelance work?

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Either consistently or having ever done it before

dry sapphire Sep 27, 2020, 3:28 AM

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Do any of you do freelance work?
@harsh patio I used to

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for a while

harsh patio Sep 27, 2020, 3:30 AM

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I’m kind of new to free lancing and I have a bit of a long term freelancing gig with a company doing some automation software. Should I be counting the time I spend monitoring this software running? This software can run for days, and sometimes has occasional bugs so I try to monitor it but I find sometimes it’s hours of monitoring for...nothing lol

#

I’m not sure what is and isn’t applicable to charge here

median citrus Sep 27, 2020, 3:44 AM

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That gets tricky, and probably depends on the contract... Generally, yes, it is billable. How billable, is kinda up to you.

#

I used to try to either include that in my bid, or get agreement to a second contract for maintenance/support at X/mo. You decide how much that should be.

harsh patio Sep 27, 2020, 3:48 AM

#

If that’s the case then it’s probably fine. I’m free lancing by all technicalities, but they treat me like a part time employee. I have access to a lot of their servers and am there to not just get things built but tested and improved upon. Also they want me around for quite a while. I try not to Bill for -all- of the time monitoring,though.

south apex Sep 27, 2020, 7:31 AM

#

Has anyone tried angellist for job hunting

#

If so how did it go

scarlet pivot Sep 27, 2020, 9:10 AM

#

hi, someone man from china offer me to give my upwork account for him in rent with 100$ paying per month. Hi want use my pc via anydesk

#

it`s not safe, year?

spice musk Sep 27, 2020, 9:12 AM

#

Probably not safe

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 9:12 AM

#

Sounds sketchy af.

#

Lol

#

That's a scam.

#

Also 100$ ain't much tbh

scarlet pivot Sep 27, 2020, 9:26 AM

#

yap, I think so too

#

Honestly, his not the first person from Asia who comes to me with a similar offer

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 9:28 AM

#

Yeah it's full of filthy casuals

dry sapphire Sep 27, 2020, 12:07 PM

#

Yeah it's full of filthy casuals
@vapid jay what is "it"

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 12:59 PM

#

Asia

true harness Sep 27, 2020, 1:02 PM

#

that's quite a generalization

left junco Sep 27, 2020, 1:30 PM

#

Any python programmer expert in data structure and algorithm
Please DM me

#

Urgent

random birch Sep 27, 2020, 1:38 PM

#

@left junco Please check DM. I have messaged you.

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

<@&267629731250176001>

icy berry Sep 27, 2020, 2:34 PM

#

!ban 640533316537417751 you clearly do not know our rules. please do not come back

inner wrenBOT Sep 27, 2020, 2:34 PM

#

:x: User is already permanently banned (#13057).

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 2:54 PM

#

@rare sand how is this not toxic/racist????

#

Yeah it's full of filthy casuals
@vapid jay

#

This is normal?

#

<@&267629731250176001>

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 2:56 PM

#

And you didn't have to ping every moderator...

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 2:56 PM

#

Apparently I do

#

let's see how long we have to wait

twin dirge Sep 27, 2020, 2:57 PM

#

Move along.

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 2:58 PM

#

to "annihilate" toxicity

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 2:58 PM

#

What's going on here?

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 2:58 PM

#

so, you're not doing anything about it?

#

speaking of toxicity

#

🤷‍♂️

mellow agate Sep 27, 2020, 2:58 PM

#

If you have something to report, rather than send a topical channel off topic, please contact ModMail.

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 2:59 PM

#

to "annihilate" toxicity
@magic leaf

You seem a bit salty. If you have concerns about something, feel free to have a conversation with us about it using ModMail. You could also contact me in private.

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 3:01 PM

#

lol

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 3:02 PM

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Alright, let's get back on-topic then

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 3:07 PM

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No

#

Stay off-topic

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 3:08 PM

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Let's not

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 3:08 PM

#

i'm just following the rules

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 3:08 PM

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No, you're just trying to provoke it seems

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 3:08 PM

#

Reporting Incidents
If you see someone breaking our rules or our code of conduct, please send a direct message to @ModMail to get in touch with our team of @Moderators. If it's really urgent, you can also ping the @Moderators role in the channel where the incident is taking place.

#

📎 unknown.png

#

This doesn't work

#

I didn't ping you.

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So

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 3:08 PM

#

And you did, but that has no relevance to your conversation now

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 3:09 PM

#

so, you're saying racism is allowed here?

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 3:09 PM

#

If you have concerns about ModMail, feel free to discuss them in #community-meta. One hint: You need to have DMs enabled in order to start DM conversations.

#

so, you're saying racism is allowed here?
@magic leaf

No, I'm not saying that. Please get back on topic.

magic leaf Sep 27, 2020, 3:10 PM

#

I'd rather not open my DMs, I've been spammed from people that are from this server.

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 3:10 PM

#

@craggy wave I'm sorry for you

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 3:10 PM

#

!shhhh

inner wrenBOT Sep 27, 2020, 3:10 PM

#

✅ silenced current channel for 8 minute(s).

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 3:11 PM

#

Alright, let's get back on topic here. Moderation concerns can be discussed over ModMail or in #community-meta. This channel is for discussion Python in the context of careers and the world of work. I've also extended an invitation to contact me in private to @magic leaf. It's up to them to take it up or leave it.

#

!unshhh

inner wrenBOT Sep 27, 2020, 3:11 PM

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✅ unsilenced current channel.

alpine vector Sep 27, 2020, 3:13 PM

#

guys, what are some fun python freelancing jobs?

mild zenith Sep 27, 2020, 3:13 PM

#

You might look in the description of the #career-advice channel

alpine vector Sep 27, 2020, 3:14 PM

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what?

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 3:21 PM

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Not sure. What did you mean, @mild zenith?

#

I think he misunderstood your question, @alpine vector

mild zenith Sep 27, 2020, 3:21 PM

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Yeah I did, apologies

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Still waking up

distant crow Sep 27, 2020, 3:35 PM

#

depends what you think is fun. I met a python programmer who really liked refactoring, and I thought that was weird

#

but hey, he was happy coming in and cleaning up a whole bunch of badly written code, and not many people want to do that, so he had a niche

#

so, what's a "fun" python job to you? (aside from one that's well paid and properly managed)

rare sand Sep 27, 2020, 3:45 PM

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I like writing productivity tools, to make other programmer's lives easier. I think that's my niche. useful libraries, automation, devops tools, that sort of thing.

limber rampart Sep 27, 2020, 3:56 PM

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I enjoy refactors, it feels very satisfying to remove ugly code

craggy elm Sep 27, 2020, 4:10 PM

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converting an idea into something i or other people can actually use

craggy wave Sep 27, 2020, 4:21 PM

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I like puzzles. Bugs, weird race conditions, unexplained side effects, I like trying to figure it out.

#

I also like working on things other people actually use for something

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

hi

#

what is the problem ?

inner wrenBOT Sep 27, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

Hey @sleek sorrel!

It looks like you tried to attach a Python file - please use a code-pasting service such as https://paste.pythondiscord.com

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

Hey folks, for anyone that is working as a professional developer....at what point are recursions and while.loops used? What would be the purpose of using them and what functionality does that on the application?

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

@grave crow What do you mean by "recordings"?

#

While loops are used in lots of different contexts.

#

Generally speaking, when you want to repeat something, but you don't know ahead of time how many times you need to repeat it.

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:50 PM

#

Recursions

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:51 PM

#

Recursion is used less frequently. Mainly for solving certain problems that are particularly suited for it.

#

Often, the problem has some kind of tree-like structure.

#

Like, processing a file tree in some way for example.

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:52 PM

#

In professional development, what is commonly used for web development vs app development

#

I enjoy python quite a bit but I'm a novice when it comes to programming

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:53 PM

#

Out of what options?

#

What languages?

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:53 PM

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Mainly Java /Python

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I'm studying both

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:53 PM

#

No, I man

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mean*

#

You asked "what is commonly used", and I'm asking "out of what set of options?"

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:54 PM

#

Ohh

#

So if you're an entry level programmer

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:54 PM

#

Are you asking what languages are used?

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:54 PM

#

What background should you have

#

In python. I.e. while.loops, data structures etc

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

For web development and app development?

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

Yes

#

Most web Developers are using react fro. what I researched

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

A while loop is a basic control structure. You need to know them no matter what type of application you're developing.

#

Knowledge of common data structures is also useful for any type of programming.

#

React is a popular client framework. Angular is another.

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

I keep hearing about react for web development

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

Well, it is a web framework, so you would.

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

I'm unsure career path I want to try out so in just working in getting a bachelors while I look for internships

little harness Sep 27, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

React is a framework for the javascript language mainly used for frontend development

#

whereas python in web development would be used as a backend language

#

so would java

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

What sort of entry level projects do prospective employers look for for incoming new programmers?

#

I doubt my python stock project would be anything worth show casing yert

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

No particular types. Anything that proves your competence. Maybe something similar to what you would be doing at the position would be especially interesting.

little harness Sep 27, 2020, 10:01 PM

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Most entry level backend positions expect you to show that you know the basics (language) and some database interaction + SQL.

#

It depends on the area a lot too.

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

Oh good so my basic sql knowledge does get some use lol

#

But its relative ro mainttianinf and creating a database

#

Haven't integrated it with python for any back end development

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 10:02 PM

#

A web backend will involve interacting with a database, and that often involves SQL in one way or another.

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 10:03 PM

#

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just very curious and I don't know of people within my social circle

vast shoal Sep 27, 2020, 10:03 PM

#

Independent of language.

#

That's ok.

little harness Sep 27, 2020, 10:03 PM

#

Basically what matters the most is picking some area you want to focus on and learn stuff around it.

#

If you want to be a backend dev you have to learn different things than a frontend does. If you want to make games instead of wepbages, that's a whole different monster by itself.

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 10:04 PM

#

Hey guys I’m an Info Tech Major and minoring in Econ. What would you guys suggest I work to diversify my resume?

#

Please @ me

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 10:08 PM

#

Are there open source projects where I can learn and try to contribute to get experience ?

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 10:08 PM

#

Try Kaggle.com

#

there’s a lot of different projects you can do and some even for price

#

And companies often post jobs on there as well

grave crow Sep 27, 2020, 10:10 PM

#

Thanks

vapid jay Sep 27, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

Welcome!

grim star Sep 28, 2020, 12:21 AM

#

Does/Has anyone ever implemented using Pandas/Numpy in a website/Django project? So you can analyse sale trends?

torn latch Sep 28, 2020, 1:19 AM

#

@vapid jay perhaps try to look into some media mix modelling, basically just applying econometrics to marketing analytics. Plenty of opportunity for analysis and product development in that space.

vapid jay Sep 28, 2020, 1:20 AM

#

@vapid jay perhaps try to look into some media mix modelling, basically just applying econometrics to marketing analytics. Plenty of opportunity for analysis and product development in that space.
@torn latch I will for sure look into it. But can you elaborate more? How would that translate into Information Technology?

torn latch Sep 28, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

Everybody in sales/marketing is trying to connect all their sales together, by different channels. How can I know how much to spend on my search advertising vs my TV advertising, etc. How can I know which customers are likely to churn and go somewhere else but then be able to target them.

If you can understand how technology works, from a technical side, plus understanding how the business is trying to use the data, that is really valuable. Someone in that position might be able to advise on how using different AWS products might allow you to bring your relevant data together to then be able to model with a more valuable data set.

#

the data architecture of how to connect all of your data and access it, the engineering component of implementing all of it, the analytics component to use all of it once it is there. You could focus on any of those 3 areas, or have a good broad knowledge across all of them.

vapid jay Sep 28, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

Wow I never looked at it from that point of view. Thanks that’s actually really helpful

#

And I have looked at some AWS certification courses and plan on doing them over Christmas

torn latch Sep 28, 2020, 1:40 AM

#

AWS/Azure, and to a lesser extent, GCP, any of the 3 should be fine

noble crag Sep 28, 2020, 3:09 AM

#

what skills do i need to have in order to get a job as a web developer ? and do i need to be good at algorithm

vast shoal Sep 28, 2020, 8:07 AM

#

@noble crag https://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/ctkypf/im_100_self_taught_landed_my_first_job_my/
This is a really good post written by @neon moat about his experience going from knowing almost nothing to getting his first job as a web developer, detailing what he studied and how.

r/learnpython - I'm 100% self taught, landed my first job! My exper...

2,031 votes and 315 comments so far on Reddit

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 8:33 AM

#

big

#

so much of the world is powered by computers or electronics, so it's a big field

still hazel Sep 28, 2020, 10:03 AM

#

to the point where if you have work experience in IT you're unlucky if you stay unemployed for half an hour (exaggeration)

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 10:31 AM

#

these days, due to widespread work-from-home, more and more companies are open to full-time remote positions, which is good news for those looking for jobs

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 1:18 PM

#

Hi all,
I'm currently stuck in Java DevOps land. I work for a huge enterprise pushing out their Java Springboot APIs to AWS and on prem environments.

I have extensive AWS (Terraform, CI/CD for Infrastructure using Jenkins, Amazon ECS, RDS, etc.) and Docker experience, but can't seem to find a role that will allow me to utilize Python and my DevOps skills. I would love to work for a startup or a similar company. I've been searching on Angel's List but haven't had much success.

I'm thinking I need to get more open source contributions under my belt and/or have more projects to show in my public Github. Is this the right way forward?

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 1:19 PM

#

what country are you in?

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 1:19 PM

#

USA, authorized to work.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 1:21 PM

#

hmm... that skillset should be quite important, but I've not hired in the US for a while so don't know what the state of the industry is. What I can say though, is python + devops has featured heavily in my current and previous two jobs

#

and it was always difficult trying to find candidates with that skillset

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 1:23 PM

#

that's what I figured too, i thought I would be in high demand. I've built REST APIs using Flask, and combining that with AWS Infrastructure skills should be a home run. I'm also certified in AWS.

#

did you put more weight on resumes, public projects or interview skills?

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 1:24 PM

#

have you interviewed with many places?

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 1:25 PM

#

i have had recruiters reach out but when I ask them about their tech stack, its always Java :(. I'm located on the East Coast USA so there is a big bias towards huge financial firms and they're usually big Java shops, in my experience.

#

I did interview for a startup in San Francisco but they were using NodeJS and did not get past the first round since I didn't have any Python development experience "in production".

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 1:35 PM

#

look for the startups with python backend, they exist (I ran one). The "in production" experience is quite important, I suggest doing some projects

#

the intersection of specifically python+devops actually isn't that huge, so probably a well-rounded python skillset would be fine

#

I think you should keep at it: keep trying those companies, look for those bay-area SaaS companies with python backends. Don't just rely on angellist search, reach out to some yourself or try to find a reference. Also ask people you chat to in interviews whether they know of anyone else who has a vacancy

craggy elm Sep 28, 2020, 1:43 PM

#

you can build a rest api with java?

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 1:44 PM

#

also, I'm not sure if this has gotten hold widely yet, but look into FastAPI for python APIs rather than Flask

craggy elm Sep 28, 2020, 1:44 PM

#

why?

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 1:44 PM

#

it's so much nicer for API work

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 1:45 PM

#

yes, i have a testdriven.io course that utilizes FastAPI so going to go through that soon

craggy elm Sep 28, 2020, 1:45 PM

#

i'll have to look into it later after work lol

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 1:46 PM

#

@distant crow well documented projects on github should do the trick? I want to show that I can build backend REST APIs using Python, Front end using React, all deployed to AWS.

small mango Sep 28, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

@noble crag https://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/ctkypf/im_100_self_taught_landed_my_first_job_my/
This is a really good post written by @neon moat about his experience going from knowing almost nothing to getting his first job as a web developer, detailing what he studied and how.
@vast shoal Thanks man. As someone who is just beginning learning TI to change my field of work after years of disappointment, this just gave me a huge boost.

r/learnpython - I'm 100% self taught, landed my first job! My exper...

2,035 votes and 315 comments so far on Reddit

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 1:48 PM

#

my quick summary of benefits are:

it's an API framework, so specialized for API work. Flask is a bit more general-purpose. An obvious example of where specialized for API is good is the error messages re json by default
unified query, path, and body inputs as arguments. Flask uses the request singleton for stuff, and it's inconsistent. Having arguments is neater (functions more pure)
built-in run-time schema validation and static checking with pydantic. Flask has no such thing. This also uses python type hinting
built-in automatic documentation generation. you will literally get a /doc page with swagger UI generated for you automatically if you define your input/output models with pydantic
async support
websockets
graphql

#

what's not to like?

#

@distant crow well documented projects on github should do the trick? I want to show that I can build backend REST APIs using Python, Front end using React, all deployed to AWS.
yes, that helps, but it sounds like the bottleneck for you is getting to a stage where people will look at your technical experience closely

#

It might be recruiters screwing you over by pigeonholing you into Java roles, (try de-emphasizing java in your resume, and talk more about the non-language specific devops skills. And try to work Python into there somehow

#

if that's right, definitely try to find other ways to get your resume seen by people, don't just rely on recruiters. But other than that, yes, projects on github will help at later stages in the interview process if you can get your foot in the door

craggy elm Sep 28, 2020, 1:54 PM

#

async support is enough for me lol

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 1:54 PM

#

my quick summary of benefits are:

it's an API framework, so specialized for API work. Flask is a bit more general-purpose. An obvious example of where specialized for API is good is the error messages re json by default

unified query, path, and body inputs as arguments. Flask uses the request singleton for stuff, and it's inconsistent. Having arguments is neater (functions more pure)

built-in run-time schema validation and static checking with pydantic. Flask has no such thing. This also uses python type hinting

built-in automatic documentation generation. you will literally get a /doc page with swagger UI generated for you automatically if you define your input/output models with pydantic

async support

websockets

graphql
@distant crow exciting stuff. I've heard FastAPI being discussed on Talk Python to Me podcast as well.

craggy elm Sep 28, 2020, 1:55 PM

#

right now, im learning how to containerize my bot, so exposing an api to communicate with a frontend is next. that summary is def helpful lol

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

It might be recruiters screwing you over by pigeonholing you into Java roles, (try de-emphasizing java in your resume, and talk more about the non-language specific devops skills. And try to work Python into there somehow
@distant crow I've had a feeling that this is the case. I will work on modifying my resume to fit Python better.

how do I know which backend these SaaS companies are using?

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

either they talk about it, or looking at their other job openings usually reveals something

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 2:01 PM

#

makes sense

#

thank you for your time @distant crow i really appreciate it

shadow moss Sep 28, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

@craggy elm yes, Java can build Rest API no problem. We commonly use Spring at work to do this.

thick forum Sep 28, 2020, 3:37 PM

#

Good Morning. Looking for some advice on finding some sidework. I've seen some discussiong regarding Fiverr, Guru, Upwork, etc. but I find it difficult to get any gigs on these platforms. My python I'm skilled with the use of tools like Netmiko and Paramiko, Selenium and Requests, Pandas and Plotty, etc. I've taken quiet a few tasks in my professional life as well as my personal life and automated them saving me lots of time.

blazing dew Sep 28, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

@dark fiber We don't allow recruitment here. Reread the #rules.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 3:49 PM

#

what do you mean by "sidework", Willhouse?

thick forum Sep 28, 2020, 4:11 PM

#

@distant crow things that I could complete in a few hours or less. Simple one off tasks that I can pick and choose as I have spare time

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:19 PM

#

those kinds of tasks are rare because if it's only a few hours, it's unlikely to be worth the overhead of bringing onboard an external contractor to do it - you'd spend more than that time just speccing out the job. they'd have done it in-house

#

the only places that make sense would therefore be highly specialized tasks that you have proprietary knowledge in. or working for companies who don't use python as their main stack, but for some reason need to deal with python

#

both of these are rare

thick forum Sep 28, 2020, 4:21 PM

#

ahhh gotcha. thanks

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:22 PM

#

I suggest either look for longer gigs, or find something where you have a unique skillset

thick forum Sep 28, 2020, 4:29 PM

#

longer gigs as in xx month long contracts?

odd prism Sep 28, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

in a similar vein as Willhouse, are there any members here who have started a DevOps/Python consulting company? Any suggestions on that? I was thinking of offering my AWS/DevOps/Python Automation skills as a service to local and remote businesses.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:50 PM

#

could be good to be honest

#

as long as you could convince them that it was easy to maintain by their in-house team afterwards

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 4:52 PM

#

hey folks, is anyone aware of the typical day rates for contracting in London? I'm trying to figure out an adequate value for an opportunity that came up

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:52 PM

#

what role and seniority

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

ML Engineer, I'd say mid (senior at most)

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:55 PM

#

really hard to say because that's a wide field, but this salary benchmark I have says £550-600 day rate for mid-level, and £600-700 for senior, but they list it as "Big Data Developer" which is vague

#

for reference, the same document lists Lead/Senior python at £500-650 day rate

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

usually on those benchmarks, they lump data scientists, machine learning engineers, data engineers and so on in the same lump category.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

yeah, likely

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

I see, I was thinking about 500 but it seemed to me an obscene amount at first, but after some reading I'm concluding that it ain't at all.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:57 PM

#

not really, that's £62 an hour

#

it's high but it's not obscene.

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

in your experience, are those values adjusted according to whether the contractor is outside the UK?

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

somewhat, people look outside the UK when they want to find better rates

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

I recall quite a bit ago to having received a random message from someone in UK looking for Python contractors with a £250 daily rate, which seemed really low to me.

#

(this would be a remote contracting position though)

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

yeah, that's low for UK, but closer to what you'd expect for some other countries

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:00 PM

#

to give a bit more context, the opportunity that came up would, most likely, involve me contracting from Southern Europe.

#

I think I might propose 500 and see how it goes from there then.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

is the concern that they'd think it's too high?

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

yes, most definitely

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

you say it's a London company? how big are they?

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

especially in light of another job posting they've put out in angel list

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 5:02 PM

#

startup, or big, established company?

#

a startup is more likely to balk at the price

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:02 PM

#

looking for a remove frontend dev (to be mandatorily located in cheap countries) with 4 years XP with a range of £15k to £30k.

#

yeah, it's a startup with around 30 people AFAIK.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

hmmmmm

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

yeah, it doesn't look good.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

even outsourcing, that's low

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

well, I'm okay with some adjustment but not to be completely ripped off. It seems 500 might be within the range of a reasonable compromise.

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 5:06 PM

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yeah, I think that's an ok start. hopefully it doesn't scare them off, but if they were scared off, they probably were looking for too low

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:06 PM

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btw, that benchmark you talked about is it publicly available or is it a "trade secret"?

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 5:07 PM

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I received this from a recruiter, and it seemed to match stuff I checked online, so it looked ok. it's a bit out of date (it's from 2019). unfortunately I'm not sure I'm even supposed to have this...

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or I should say "it came from a recruiter which I somehow now have access to"

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but I think the numbers are pretty close to if you google standard salaries

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:19 PM

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fair enough, will google a bit then. I really appreciate your help! 🙏

marsh wind Sep 28, 2020, 5:52 PM

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are those rates you talk about are net? or it is before all charges?

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 5:54 PM

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all gross

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net would just add a lot of entropy into the discussion

marsh wind Sep 28, 2020, 5:58 PM

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got it. that being net felt like a lot for most central/south EU country

crude crown Sep 28, 2020, 6:00 PM

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as a general rule, if you half these gross rates you'll be in the ballpark for the net values in Europe (taxation rate of contracting work is kind of similar between different European countries AFAIK)

distant crow Sep 28, 2020, 6:04 PM

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day rates are also higher in general

marsh wind Sep 28, 2020, 7:09 PM

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Yeah sounds reasonable then. I was close to having one of those contracting/consulting gig in France and they estimated me day rate of 400€

hollow geyser Sep 28, 2020, 9:35 PM

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Focus on knowledge or get a degree in CS!?

Currently working in tech and have for over 7+ years

cobalt oriole Sep 28, 2020, 9:36 PM

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in tech? it depends on whether its a pure CS degree or an electrical engineering degree with a CS focus or a CS & Engineering degree

hollow geyser Sep 28, 2020, 9:40 PM

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I would be thinking about the ladder. But not sure if it is work it or not. I’ve already been using python in the work place for a while now, not sure if my time would more well spent focusing on knowledge...

cold socket Sep 28, 2020, 11:43 PM

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Hello guys, i am new here of server. Wanted to say that i'm beginner in programming and wish perfect me how programmer here, i appreciate any collaboration. My first contact with programation was with Python (and that i'm still learning, i find myself in basic concepts, i would say lol) one of the factors that did i come in here, besides for being an easy, dynamic and functional language, what desire to focus on. Remembering, my english is horrible, for cause my nationality is not from a country with english language, i apologize in advance for my english, patience please lol (i promise to improve it).

blazing dew Sep 29, 2020, 7:33 AM

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@bitter crypt We don't allow recruitment here.

harsh pendant Sep 29, 2020, 2:34 PM

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hello guys any one there

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hello

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Do anyone know the difference between an IT -developer and a Software developer

grave tiger Sep 29, 2020, 2:46 PM

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Sigh like what portfolios do entry level soft dev have

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I want to build one but then its like all the projects I want to work on I like to go above and beyond

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so its like boom 2 months down the line, I want to add more and more and then like no not ready to release yet, etc

dry sapphire Sep 29, 2020, 2:59 PM

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so its like boom 2 months down the line, I want to add more and more and then like no not ready to release yet, etc
@grave tiger "done" is the best feature.

white karma Sep 29, 2020, 3:08 PM

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I want to build one but then its like all the projects I want to work on I like to go above and beyond
@grave tiger Welcome to software development

neon niche Sep 29, 2020, 5:08 PM

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Not sure if this is the right channel but I’m looking for some that could help me (payed) with some school assignments in python very basic. I will send the Assignment before so you can see what i mean. Please tell me the price to do the assignment so i can finish my school (it is not a software development school but they need us to know some basic python) please pm me 😇

noble crag Sep 29, 2020, 5:29 PM

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Question does learning a backend framework for web development mainly to get a job from it depends on which country you live in? Or ican choose any backend frame work Django - nodejs etc and I should be able to find a job anywhere?

spice musk Sep 29, 2020, 5:39 PM

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I would say depends on the country, or area where you want to work.

distant crow Sep 29, 2020, 5:59 PM

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Not sure if this is the right channel but I’m looking for some that could help me (payed) with some school assignments in python very basic. I will send the Assignment before so you can see what i mean. Please tell me the price to do the assignment so i can finish my school (it is not a software development school but they need us to know some basic python) please pm me 😇
I am extremely against this kind of thing

vapid jay Sep 29, 2020, 6:04 PM

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hello...I wanted to ask if I can land a software dev job if i finish everything in freecodecamp.org and does codecamp teach you all the required skills?

toxic obsidian Sep 29, 2020, 6:04 PM

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id love to know that too

fluid yacht Sep 29, 2020, 6:05 PM

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yes, you probably could

vapid jay Sep 29, 2020, 6:06 PM

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alright ty! @fluid yacht i got inspired by a random video online abt programming...checked out free code camp website n after reading abt the ppl who got jobs at google n stuff i got inspired even more!

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but lately I have been struggling with python

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n kept getting discouraged

smoky basalt Sep 29, 2020, 6:07 PM

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Oh you should watch tutorials

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and take it easy

white karma Sep 29, 2020, 6:11 PM

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but lately I have been struggling with python n kept getting discouraged
@vapid jay It’s gonna be a cycle of that for a little while, but it does get easier and things do start making more and more sense

toxic obsidian Sep 29, 2020, 6:18 PM

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i would love to know any reccomendations for where to apply for jobs, cuz in my country i can only find Javascripts and rarely see Python related jobs.
Since i only know Python

fluid yacht Sep 29, 2020, 6:22 PM

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@toxic obsidian are you ok with working remote?

toxic obsidian Sep 29, 2020, 6:30 PM

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Id prefer that actually.
So yes @fluid yacht

fluid yacht Sep 29, 2020, 6:39 PM

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@toxic obsidian Stackoverflow has a job page, so does github.
I have heard indeed is popular too. make sure to upload your work to github, so they can see it.
https://jobs.github.com/positions?description=Python
https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=python&l=Remote
https://stackoverflow.com/jobs?r=true&tl=python&td=javascript

toxic obsidian Sep 29, 2020, 7:23 PM

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Ty very much ❤️@fluid yacht

topaz tartan Sep 29, 2020, 7:41 PM

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https://jobs.github.com/positions?description=Python

Never heard of this before 🤔 design looks outdated tho, but there's still new job postings there

night rock Sep 29, 2020, 7:42 PM

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Hey I have to send a Django website to a client do I send the env where all the libraries are installed? Do I include it or not?

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I'm new to freelancing so I don't really have any clue how this stuff works

topaz tartan Sep 29, 2020, 7:47 PM

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wait

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did you receive payment yet?

night rock Sep 29, 2020, 7:48 PM

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It's on Fiverr so i will recieve after delivery

topaz tartan Sep 29, 2020, 7:48 PM

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oww

harsh patio Sep 29, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Got a job 6 months ago doing work I really love. Already having to consider a new job because my boss and coworker are insufferable. What a fucking shame

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My boss and coworker are just the least ideal humans to work with. The coworker Is kind of a passive aggressive ass who comes off as a know it all kind of individual

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My boss is a terrible boss. Great coworker though. But she’s poor as leading a project and managing me. My desires/needs/concerns are just simply not desired at all.

So at the end of the day I don’t feel like I’m on a team. I’m dictated work and have to go out of my way to hold meetings on shit they could read in the repo or just see for themselves. Expected to be at my bosses beck and call as well

autumn flower Sep 29, 2020, 8:42 PM

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@harsh patio what kind of business is your company in?

vapid jay Sep 29, 2020, 8:56 PM

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Hey I have to send a Django website to a client do I send the env where all the libraries are installed? Do I include it or not?
@night rock well you have send everything, step to create and replicate the whole project as it will helo you to get good rating and feeback

crude crown Sep 29, 2020, 9:55 PM

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@harsh patio Unfortunately it's hard to change people.

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but it's possible up to a point, have you considered 1:1s with your co-worker about his attitude and on how he should tone it down? From what you wrote, you would need to be really diplomatic on this and you could try to convince him that him changing his attitude would make wonders for his career.

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With respect to your boss... that's more difficult and I wouldn't suggest at all try to antagonize him in any way (been there, done that)... is it a possibility that you could talk to a manager from another department, ask for his opinion on how you could proceed in order to change your situation?

harsh patio Sep 29, 2020, 10:03 PM

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@autumn flower we do software as a service work. Offer up services companies can’t normally get I guess

toxic obsidian Sep 29, 2020, 10:04 PM

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Hello, i have been doing some corusees on freecodecamp and i have a question,

do i need to know JavaScript ? to be able to get a job or thats just freecodecamp thing?
since i like Python and on that side it seems like i cannot do anything with python without JS?

i am kinda confused now

harsh patio Sep 29, 2020, 10:10 PM

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@crude crown that all makes sense. Honestly our team sounds like a state of flux and I just got out of a meeting that honestly makes me nearly wanna quit

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It seems that they might change my job responsibilities, and the whole reason I took the job to begin with might be removed. Not good at all

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I expressed that to my boss and I was met with a response that basically pointed out how an intern performed better than me

crude crown Sep 29, 2020, 10:11 PM

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what's your role there?

harsh patio Sep 29, 2020, 10:11 PM

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Which is entirely untrue in my eyes and a fucking shitty thing to say as a boss

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The title doesn’t say it but quintessentially a machine learning engineer