Every modern looking website requires JS to work, you cannot do that in just python and templates
#career-advice
digital fjord
haughty verge
Maybe. But the idea would probably be to limit that as much as possible. And only use js when absolutely nessasary
Not saying that's the Right thing to do. Just that would probably be some companies mindset
There logic is if they already have python devs if they can do everything thing in python they don't have to higher new people or allocate time to having staff learn a new/different language.
vapid jay
so what exactly do you do in back-end, if it's a simple website you don't have much to do right? @digital fjord
haughty verge
Ya. Alot of normal websites don't really need a back end. A back end is only nessasary when you need to let users change data. In which case it's normally considered a web app
vapid jay
so wouldn't that make the demand even smaller since most websites are really simple static pages?
yes it would make it higher demand
rugged star
Hey hey everyone, I've been interviewing for a grad position and they use React, and ive been going through the university of helsinki's online course. The recruiter im working with saw a post of mine on linkedin and said i should mention it on my CV. I'm trying to keep my CV one page, but id like to include some information about the course, or the project im working on, implementing a clothing store using react. How would you change my CV to fit in said info?
In my eyes, i could remove the sentiment analyser for the clothing store project, and then in the two bullet points say how im making it after finishing parts 1 and 2 of the online course blah blah blah
Or remove the work experience, and replace it as a fourth project
Would appreciate any thoughts and feedback
gilded valley
All of your bullet points take up 2 lines. Try to condense some down to 1 line
spice musk
And the contact info can probably go into a single line too
rugged star
Thanks! Didn't think I'd be able to fit it all on the single page like that, but it's definitely possible, cheers fellas
vapid jay
you should include github link, do you have a portfolio
mobile and email can be on the same line.. use delimiter |
and use action words.. use vmock @rugged star
also look at similar profiles on linkedin.. and see how they describe their work
rugged star
Yeah I've got a github, i link to it in the projects but yeah i should probably just link my profile at the top as well
Thanks for the ideas!
vapid jay
ignore the home address part.. and you don't need a website either..
you can also keep your phone number, email and linkedin all under your name as you do now
rugged star
Thank you! Really appreciate you sending that across
gilded valley
I'm currently a final year student in the UK, I've done 2 pretty good internships so I have a relatively solid CV, and I really want to move abroad for my first job to Canada, the USA, NZ, or Aus. Does anyone here have experience with that shift of UK -> other-English-speaking-country as their full-time permanent first job?
shadow moss
@rugged star you could look for duplicate stuff from your personal projects and trim.
@gilded valley Visa situation is your primary concern
gilded valley
yeah, that's what I've been looking at. Canada seems awkward for it, USA I haven't looked in detail, but H1-Bs I know are a bastard to get, NZ looks easy enough
shadow moss
We could talk about not putting U in random words and driving on proper side of the road all day but if you can’t get a visa, moot talk.
I heard AUS and NZ have some young person visa. Look into that?
gilded valley
They have a simpleish points based system in NZ at least, I checked and I comfortably qualify for the right kind of visa
I think Aus is probably the same
mortal wedge
I think it's easier to get a visa if you have a job in a company and then move to that company's other location in a different country
gilded valley
I think you're right, but I already have at least one job offer for when I graduate, so I may as well pour time and effort into trying to skip that step - I really want to get out of the UK for at least a few years (and I'd prefer to do it straight out of uni)
shadow moss
I don’t think it’s terrible idea. Visa is just first thing to take care of. It’s like talking about working at Google when you don’t have an offer.
dawn beacon
anyone know any discords thats like "looking for dev" type stuff that people pay devs to do things? freelancing type stuff
gilded valley
you can try asking in discord.gg/devcord though
https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/470889390588035082/747563833714802719
winter cedar
Best server would be... Hidden Devs
gilded valley
from f1re
hallow bramble
do people get paid for selenium?
shadow moss
Sure, QA
haughty verge
Ya. I had an interview for a QA Job that was using it and one of my internships also used it for QA. They aren't always using Python for it though.
If you know Selenium make sure to put that in your resume. It gets you some extra eyes
tacit mortar
looking for advice regarding frameworks for python, which in Your opinion i should study for next year to get job as junior dev ?
lapis wind
Django and Flask are always pretty popular
haughty verge
Ya you could basically flip a coin between those two
golden moth
what's that?
toxic root
Hi does anyone know of jobs/fields that somehow married programming and psychology together?
willow vigil
man @toxic root u can search it tho (atleast i dont know), but in my opinion if there are no fields , go make one and be the master ! xD
toxic root
🤣 dude still learning the language haha we'll see if i can get there 😅
vapid jay
@limpid trench is the race recognition system ready??
limpid trench
nah, it is kinda taking time, so i am not gonna give it away for free
and FYI, i got it from github and am editing it
vapid jay
oh right:((
@limpid trench can you tech me how to make the github one?
Like screenshare how to set it up
limpid trench
just go to github, and then search for criminal face detection
and then the process is given on it
limpid trench
not tutorials, how to set up on readme
vapid jay
wtf
is that
oh
its gonna take me 5 mins and I might learn something from it
you**
limpid trench
and the filenames are self-explanatory to tell which file is supposed to be run after you git clone it
vapid jay
there arent
limpid trench
i can't stream, and i don't accept dms
trail merlin
Ok so this is probably the wrong channel but I want to be a python programmer I'm 14 and a dancer so I want to code python for a living but cant figure out things that people would want with python and i am at a real dead end if u guys could help it would be greatly
@ me
true harness
!resources
inner wrenBOT
spring parcel
@trail merlin ah i see
theres some good courses online which you can use or the resources tagged above!
potent cargo
is adding my datacamp course certificates to linkedin worthwhile or does it make me seem like im overvaluing essentially a homework assignment?
lime grotto
Hey guys, anyone know how to present some experience as a entry level software engineer on their resume without any work experience?
orchid ivy
personal projects
timid hedge
So I got this error, even though I have bot token in my config.example.py file
ImportError: cannot import name 'BOT_TOKEN' from 'config'
viscid inlet
@lime grotto I've seen recruiters/hiring managers look at your personal projects, your Github projects & contributions, your StackOverflow contributions, whether you participated in hackathons, or side courses you've studied
lime grotto
Thank you
jolly furnace
stackoverflow contrib thats sth ive never heard of
vapid jay
How important is it to have a personal website in the quest of getting a job? Is it more or less an expanded version of your resume or just as succinct?
viscid inlet
I've been doing a lot of research with recruiters & hiring managers for my startup, and what I found was that one way they'll scout for developers is e.g. search up 'Python' (or w/e) in Github & Stackoverflow, look for active people who contribute a lot to those projects/questions, find their email (there are a bunch of plugins for this), and reach out. Haven't personally come across their thoughts about personal website etc but the more info they can find on the types of projects you've done the better I'm assuming
vapid jay
Makes sense, I appreciate it.
jovial orchid
Hey, I was wondering if anyone knew any good places too look for tutoring jobs? I've been struggling
tacit mortar
@viscid inlet what kind of projects? What theoretical Hr person can understand from Your projects?
dry sapphire
I've been doing a lot of research with recruiters & hiring managers for my startup, and what I found was that one way they'll scout for developers is e.g. search up 'Python' (or w/e) in Github & Stackoverflow, look for active people who contribute a lot to those projects/questions, find their email (there are a bunch of plugins for this), and reach out. Haven't personally come across their thoughts about personal website etc but the more info they can find on the types of projects you've done the better I'm assuming
@viscid inlet do people actually care about SO participation?
nobody ever did for me
mortal hazel
Isn't that less about whether they care about it directly and more about it being a good way to find someone who is active in python and (if they have a high metric) reasonably competent?
I took it as a searching method rather than a hiring criteria
lusty heron
@jovial orchid there are discords for education-related things that you can advertise yourself on, otherwise there are a bunch of websites like preply (for VCE here in australia) that can advertise for you
jovial orchid
@lusty heron do you know any of the common discords?
lusty heron
@jovial orchid depends where you live and what year 12 graduate measure you have in your country, there's a discord for the "Victorian Certificate of Education" abbreviated VCE that has a tutors channel
an ambulance just pulled up
jovial orchid
@lusty heron thanks
viscid inlet
Yeah SO & GH would probably be mainly search methods to fill up their talent funnel or try to find suitable candidates for an open role. In response to the initial question around what you could put on your CV without work experience though, those are things that could help
@tacit mortar @dry sapphire from a HR person's POV they mentioned they looked at things like how many people were pulling from your Github project, or how many e.g. Python questions you were answering on SO (and how well rated they were). Those things will help get your foot in the door, but from there it'll probably be up to you to sell those experiences in the interview which I know less about sorry!
tacit mortar
Thats clear. Thanks.
vapid jay
does quitting an internship give bad rep, I'm debating whether to leave the one I'm in. There's no opportunity to learn, The pay is low(just a formality) and I'm expected to make research articles, Models (machine learning) and Scrape/handle data. It's my first one so idk whether leaving it is a good call
any advice appreciated
wispy cape
it's not bad but really it should be a last resort
what were you expecting you'd be doing in that internship ?
vapid jay
the job desc just said managing data and summarising AI research, plus they hadnt mentioned that 50 hour a week work rule in that. Honestly I'm not looking for internships for the money but where i can acually learn something
wispy cape
putting aside the 50 hours weeks, the description of your work you gave seemed fairly ok, no ?
but yeah, if you're draining yourself away, and feel like you're not even learning a lot, just leave imo
vapid jay
so far I've been asked to scrape data from twitter, make a model for detecting social media influencers and make reports on both, I've done all of that now I'm implementing a sentiment clf model. all of ehich ive done before so the HR keeps bugging me about literally completing the work too fast and not completing the time (which is tracked obv)
Probably had some unrealistic expectations about being mentored too
wispy cape
yeah it sounds like a toxic work environment, if really you feel oppressed by HR and stuff, i'd completely understand tbh
good internships definitely exist and yes, they do come with a good mentor
i'd say don't worry too much about it looking bad if you quit, as long as it doesn't make you fail your school year or anything, it has almost 0 impact in the long run
vapid jay
yeahh I'll look for those tysm
vapid jay
I'm thinking of getting a career in programming when I'm older what should I do to find jobs
vivid dock
You can go look for them yourself, online. You can network in the sense that you'll end up knowing a guy that might have position for you, or know a guy that knows a guy and so on.
You can have a nice portfolio / linkedin profile etc, and let companies / recruiters come to you
among many other alternatives
gilded valley
I'm looking to apply for jobs outside of the UK (primarily US I guess, but also New Zealand and Australia), so I've tried to work my CV to be closer to put more emphasis on skills - I'm looking for feedback with that in mind. There's probably some typos and stuff that I've missed, but I'll do a final pass for that stuff before submitting it anywhere
gilded valley
uh - good point. That's something I was told to do a couple of years ago by a university careers advisor, but in hindsight I think they were a moron
vivid dock
Your ranking is probably not in line with a recruiters ranking, which might waste your time in a job with a too high ceiling, or miss a job with a lower ceiling etc
gilded valley
Yeah, I think that's something I'll probably change - thanks
orchid ivy
recruiters want to see how you've applied those skills to work experience/projects
gilded valley
that's mostly covered in the experience section
almost all of those skills are backed up by some bullet or another
orchid ivy
right. because concrete examples have more weight than "python expert"
vivid dock
I agree with that
gilded valley
Sure, but the python expert part is backed up by relevant bullets in 2/3 work experiences. I get that python expert isn't the best phrasing htough
orchid ivy
Keep your skills section succinct
gilded valley
alright, there are a lot of bullets there, and I'll tailor them more to specific jobs
vivid dock
also, your email har .ccom
gilded valley
so it does
orchid ivy
the skills section should really just contain keywords and your proficiency. and it should tie into work experience and personal projects.
gilded valley
Ah yeah. That's one thing I know about and forgot to mention. I don't actually know the month but will figure it out before applying anywhere
vapid jay
whats the highest paying computer science job? machine learning?
shadow moss
There is no category of highest paying
orchid ivy
@gilded valley also, keep in mind a resume isn't a one-size fits all. what you include should cater towards the position you're applying for.
amber hazel
Hey guys, is there anyone here who networked and found a job completely online?, I'd like some advice
quartz heath
People from the US, do you have one internship every year for the 4 years during which you pursue your BS in CS?
shadow moss
If possible I would.
lavish geyser
its not easy tho
shadow moss
Sure but if possible
orchid ivy
@quartz heath , no. you have to at least have taken a data structures class.
trail merlin
hello all i want to be a python dev but am at a loss for what to make with python that i could sell or work on for if people would want it i need some help so i can sart working n it as i am only 14 thanks for all the help @me if u have answe thanks
white karma
@trail merlin My dude if you’re only 14, just search around the various fields in your free time.
trail merlin
ok i guess i just am not into game dev, i kinda like webdev, i HATE java and c#, but i can do things with python and tkinter
dim sand
Hey everybody, I am trying to expand my circle on LinkedIn and was wondering if anyone would be interested in connecting
jolly furnace
tbh i feel u shouldnt really connect just for the sake of connecting
jolly furnace
i mean in terms of linkedin
trail merlin
got it
jolly furnace
as a response to Dee
dim sand
Im coming in from a different career and my Bootcamp has us trying to expand out Linkedin Circles
Honestly, Its been kind of inspirational to see all of the cool stuff / portfolios everyone else has
night rock
I'm learning web-development right now. I want to eventually freelance for some extra cash, but how do I know when I'm ready to start? Should I just start trying to find work?
white karma
Best you can do is just go for it and show off what you’ve made so far
sick crag
Hello people, I have a question regarding portfolios. To give some background, I learnt Python when I started college (to be more precise, I learnt with the 2.7.14 version), which gave me barely the basics. On my own stride, I took other courses which helped me to develop in the OOP (in another languages such as Java as well), the MVC system, some frameworks and yadaya dayada.
Now, I've worked developing before, yet what I had to do was more about devising algorithms to keep work going rather than common-use developing. This way I fail to think about things to add to a work repository I have on Github (I already have some things there, yet I also find them too alien for what I have seen in use).
Currently I'm searching for a job as hard as I can, therefore I am in the need to make this repository grow. Would you people, who have more experience and have a greater grasp than me on the subject, to provide me with ideas for things to add to it? Thanks beforehand
carmine blade
i'm in a similar situation maybe we could team up on a bigger project to have in both our portfolios @sick crag
sick crag
Fine by me, yet we should reach a common accord on what to do @carmine blade
carmine blade
yeah sure you wanna talk about it in dms ?
sick crag
Yup
nimble locust
Hey guys! I'm currently applying to US universities, and I was just curious as to how much college name (ex top 4 like mit cmu stanford) affects thing such as job opportunity and salaries.
I read online that for CS it doesn't matter that much but I was wondering what the advantages are.
(A ping in a response will be appreciated!)
dim sand
@nimble locust got a lot more to do with the opportunities that are available to you than any concrete effects.
The bigger the name of the school the more opportunities you will have on average to be able to pull from.
At the same time it's not a guarantee and you are competing for those opportunities with all other students.
Sometimes small universities work out better for that exact reason other times larger universities are more rewarding
inner wrenBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @valid plover until 2020-09-09 05:42 (9 minutes and 59 seconds) (reason: duplicates rule: sent 4 duplicated messages in 10s).
craggy wave
Hey, @valid plover, it's not that difficult to just leave the server.
hot goblet
@shadow moss Could you please add me as a friend, I в like to ask you some questions about hiring as ML.
shadow moss
No
fervent hamlet
Is it normal for an employer to only judge your technical ability using online coding puzzles like leetcode/codingame/hackerrank?
vapid plinth
I don't think it is. More often than not, or at least in my country, we also have verbal technical interview which includes whiteboarding .
distant crow
it's normal for an employer to use these tools at the early stages in the interview process to weed out those who can't program using as little effort as possible
nobody wants to sit through a 60 minute technical interview and watch a clearly unqualified candidate struggle through basic questions
(I've had to do this too much)
distant crow
we have a backend position technical test that has a part 1 which is simply to go fetch a json from a server
a surprising number of candidates fail this
it's part 1 of many, and it's just something that is needed because that data will be used in later steps.
white karma
Wow really?
distant crow
we allow candidates to use their own environment (they're allowed to prep this beforehand). we don't tell them what the task is other than it being "typical tasks for backend"
if they don't have an environment, one is provided, but it's a pretty bare-bones installation with nothing installed by default python (sudo access is provided)
candidates can google whatever on the side
it's about 30-45 minute task. then we spend 15-30 minutes talking about hypothetical what-if scenarios and talk a bit about architecture and other stuff like that
part 1 should take less than 5 minutes, I mean, most of you here know how to make an HTTP request, there's a library for it. you can even google it right now, and you'll see what most people will use. it should be a no-brainer for anyone with even a year of backend python experience
well, this was their first technical test, it happens after the screening interview. but some people are really good at "talking the talk" they know the language, they know how to sound knowledgeable
this is why some companies opt to use automated tests to avoid having to waste time on such situations. however, those tests can also be faked - candidates can ask someone else to take their test (though don't know why they bother, they'd just get fired quickly later, wasting everyone's time
shadow moss
Many companies are loath to fire
distant crow
I expect they are counting on that
shadow moss
Because they don't want to get sued
the people who make that decision wonder if it's the person they hire or just their ability to teach that person
hiring is expensive and not reliable, sometimes bad person you have is better then potential worst person you might end up with
distant crow
also some managers pretend they didn't make a massive mistake
shadow moss
sure
vapid jay
would i get any buyers for discord bot programming with python
i can integrate a website inside a discord bot and make a complex bot +500 lines of programming
wispy cape
you'll probably not make a living out of it
elfin abyss
But yeah you'd probably be able to find some buyers
true harness
a website in a discord bot?
vapid jay
Is it normal for an employer to only judge your technical ability using online coding puzzles like leetcode/codingame/hackerrank?
@fervent hamlet If you're in India yeah its very normal xD
Even if you're not interested in CP employers want a good profile and so does the college itself its some crap
smoky ferry
No job post channel here?
wet ibex
How much would be able to make with 2 years of experience
uncut nexus
depends on job , location , post and some other factors
gilded valley
With our without? Doing it with isn't too difficult
vapid jay
with
gilded valley
Ah yeah. I misread your original question
vapid jay
yeah i am currently in grade 12 graduating in less than 2 months
gilded valley
If you're genuinely interested and do personal projects and/or internships during the degree, it's fairly easy
vapid jay
And i really wanna do CS
gilded valley
But if you just do the bare minimum to get OK grades, it's much harder
vapid jay
but my parents say that it is really hard to get a job (I am doing it anyway even if i don't get a job)
oh okay
gilded valley
No. It's really not that hard to get a job if you're genuinely interested. This is a UK perspective, but I think it holds true for the US and EU
vapid jay
I am in Australia
my grades rn with a bare minimum is 80% on school subjects because I am learning code and things related to CS mostly
so I am guessing I will be good if not very good
gilded valley
Australia is a much smaller market, so that might affect things
jovial orchid
hey does anyone know of any discord servers that I could look to tutor python in?
gilded valley
Probably. The UK has pretty feasible requirements to move here. Not sure about most of Europe. North America is harder
vapid jay
hey does anyone know of any discord servers that I could look to tutor python in?
@jovial orchid for free or priced?
Probably. The UK has pretty feasible requirements to move here. Not sure about most of Europe. North America is harder
@gilded valley i see
jovial orchid
@vapid jay ive been looking for python tutoring jobs all the common web sites are over saturated
vapid jay
Probably. The UK has pretty feasible requirements to move here. Not sure about most of Europe. North America is harder
@gilded valley what would be your top advice on what to do before you start going to uni?
gilded valley
Once you've learned programming to the extent, you can do basic web apps fur example, start learning all the supporting stuff: git, how to interact with servers, how to structure actual projects, CICD (most of that isn't covered in a typical cs degree)
vapid jay
Once you've learned programming to the extent, you can do basic web apps fur example, start learning all the supporting stuff: git, how to interact with servers, how to structure actual projects, CICD (most of that isn't covered in a typical cs degree)
@gilded valley I see
blazing jungle
Hey all, I have an interview coming up related to Python (web programming and data science). This is my code sample that I submitted: https://github.com/QEDK/goodbot
What questions should I be mindful of? (the interview will not require me to write code)
wet ibex
Hey could anyone tell me the implementation of Computer Science
i need like 2, if u could help me that would be greatly appreciated if u cant move on
true harness
you should do your own homework
wet ibex
i said move on if u cant like god
vestal sinew
No need to be irritated :)
wet ibex
i am not all i am saying is if u can help me that would be appreceiated and if cant or wont move on
gilded valley
If you can't come up with some on your own, then you're lacking some basic knowledge. Maybe asking in an offtopic channel some more general questions would be more useful. As is, you're just trying to skip to the end
you're not asking for help. You're asking for someone to do it for you.
wet ibex
i am not asking anybody to do anything for me
gilded valley
yes you are. You're asking for people to give you two examples of the implementation of Computer Science
wet ibex
i am saying if u know tell me if u dont then move on!
true harness
off topic for careers
wet ibex
well i have been guided here by @prime plaza thats why I came here
prime plaza
bruh I meant look at the job descriptions, google what they mean, and then choose those
not fucking ask them to do your homework
wet ibex
i am not asking them goddamnit
if u know tell me if dont or want to tell me then why do u care what I do!
true harness
because it's not helpful to you
wet ibex
I think i can decide whats helpful to me or not and some home-work wont affect anything
true harness
if it doesn't affect anything, don't do it!
wet ibex
can we take this to a off topic
gilded valley
This server's policy with homework is generally not to just hand you the answers, and instead to try and help you to get to the answers on your own
but move to #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
blazing jungle
Hey all, I have an interview coming up related to Python (web programming and data science). This is my code sample that I submitted: https://github.com/QEDK/goodbot
What questions should I be mindful of? (the interview will not require me to write code)
bumping (if anyone minds let me know, I don't mind deleting)
daring pawn
anyone from India here ?
blazing jungle
anyone from India here ?
@daring pawn yeah, why
daring pawn
i am looking for a data science internships in ML/AI can anyone suggest me some companies ?
fossil moth
@daring pawn are you a UG or PG student?
daring pawn
UG.. i am graduating in 2021
vapid jay
@limpid trench can u send the face recognition software??
white karma
Should probably take that to DMs, fren
haughty matrix
@daring pawn I noticed you were asking about internships in ML/AI
I actually work for a nonprofit company that offers free online coding classes to students around the globe
so if you are interested in working as a tutor for us DM me
we have a machine learning class we just ran that we will probably run again in our winter session
vapid jay
Hey @haughty matrix what is the website to those free online coding classes?
haughty matrix
vapid jay
awesome thank you. I will check it out tomorrow after work 🙂
tight sequoia
Hey all, i've been wanting to get a job as a data analyst or data scientist. i did not get a degree in computer science and was wondering if there were any certifications that are recommended to help aid in getting into this field or just any advice in general
potent trellis
@tight sequoia https://www.udacity.com/course/data-scientist-nanodegree--nd025 check this out. you need to be certificated for first job. Finding first job is always the hardest one.
hi guys i am in the edge of making a decision, i've been working as data scientist for 2 years, but for now i wanna quit data science cuz of my expectation didnt match, i'm gonna switch to Software engineering.
is there any guy who give some advice, or what're your thoughts?
plain pumice
Which platform: codewars or hackerrank is better to practice programming and landing freelancing jobs down the line?
Or should i just start making projects and display them on my github?
plain pumice
Yeah...
plain pumice
Yeah okay. Thanks.
fallow dock
Maybe try dabbling in a bunch of different things
like a jack of all trades thing
so you can be hired for many different jobs
royal lichen
so after I learned python how to start work?
fallow dock
If you become good at many things in python
then you can be hired for many things
to possibly bring in more jobs
plain pumice
@royal lichen yes...
fallow dock
and add variety to your portfolio
royal lichen
i mean where to start
plain pumice
@fallow dock Okay okay
fallow dock
Probably start with basic things like making useful tools like a calculator or something
or a program that can order mcdonalds idk
plain pumice
@fallow dock so I’ve already made a GUI calci. But yeah i got ur point.
fallow dock
Cool
sullen girder
Ey everyone, Am kind of new to the world of programming and am starting with Python as my 1st language. Does any body know of any good books for beginners.
😆
vestal pelican
!resources @sullen girder
inner wrenBOT
vestal pelican
sullen girder
Just checked out the page. Thanks so much.
modest quail
For what do you use python?
vestal pelican
data science and machine learning, mainly, but also many projects where code readability and simplicity is more important than efficiency
many website backends, game server backends, etc, have at least the high-level stuff written in Python
topaz tartan
what should I learn to get started in Data Science and probably get a job in that profession?
devout onyx
hi
vapid jay
yes
blazing dew
inner wrenBOT
vapid jay
oop
blazing jungle
Had the interview today and I answered all questions the best I can (didn't blank). When I asked for feedback, the interviewer said that my project was good, he appreciates the demo and he thinks I can do better on cleaning it up. Any opinion on the outcome?
https://github.com/QEDK/goodbot is the code sample
white karma
Honestly if “making it look neater” was the only thing that stuck out, you did pretty well
blazing jungle
Honestly if “making it look neater” was the only thing that stuck out, you did pretty well
@white karma yeah, hopeful for now because I thought it went well. I don't do too many interviews so I'm not sure if he was being nice or it was actually alright :P thanks either way! :)
weary harbor
do you really need a college degree to get CS jobs? like SWE
orchid ivy
@weary harbor most entry-level positions for SWE require a 4-year bachelors
orchid ivy
nah, that's okay. you can still become a developer without it though
weary harbor
and i joined this server to get help for my reeeeeeeeeeeesearch intern
so like
i look big bren on paper
but i'm not at all
yeah
just really depressed to the point i gave up on my plans of going into academia
orchid ivy
@weary harbor for help go to #❓｜how-to-get-help
weary harbor
that's what i've been doing
orchid ivy
it's never too late to learn. ^^
weary harbor
well it's not that i'm having a problem rn
cuz i finished my stuff yesterday
paper's gone to the IEEE, ML model and software's in the lab's private github repo
ngl i wish there was a venting channel
orchid ivy
oh! we have off-topic channels.
feel free to use one of those that don't have an active discussion ^^
true harness
!ot
inner wrenBOT
weary harbor
thanks
i'm just gonna need time to reflect and plan out things
ranting won't get me anywhere
white karma
That’s the spirit
orchid ivy
@weary harbor feel free to ask questions. you have plenty of resources here 🙂
kindred pumice
Kind of a dumb question, but for companies that give you leetcode and hackerrank problems, can you use any supported programming language to solve the problem?
regal falcon
if you're not going to a bootcamp or university for computer science what are the most essential parts of computer science to study for lets say a web dev who uses javascript python html css sql?
merry remnant
@kindred pumice any programming language that is supported by the company will work. Recruiters usually let you know what you can use. If not, go ahead and ask
@regal falcon that's a lot of tech you listed. If you're asking for the commonality in Python and JS - it's understanding how both have dynamic objects. HTML and CSS - understanding how a web page is constructed from the bottoms up. And SQL is its own thing
ember lichen
Hello!!!! would a question about curriculum roadmap fit in here?
wind siren
Hi I have internship next April , its 6 months. I want to spend my time doing something I enjoy , I enjoy doing python ,java , maths . I dont think I would be that great at doing big programming projects for company , probably would be too overwhelming. Would you have any advice what sort of jobs I should apply for ?
blazing jungle
Hi I have internship next April , its 6 months. I want to spend my time doing something I enjoy , I enjoy doing python ,java , maths . I dont think I would be that great at doing big programming projects for company , probably would be too overwhelming. Would you have any advice what sort of jobs I should apply for ?
@wind siren You have an internship or you're looking for one? I'm confused.
wind siren
@blazing jungle I mean I have internship due from April ,its part of my course . I have to find a internship myself , dont have one yet.
plucky holly
@vapid jay what is your background?
vapid jay
@plucky holly Thanks for your reply.
Data Extracting, Web Backend develope using Django, Flask.
and so on...
plucky holly
@vapid jay what country are you in?
vapid jay
I am from indonesia
vapid jay
yeah, a little.
I didn't put it right.@plucky holly
Universally, I didn't make readme.md.
It's me
@plucky holly Hi, Bama
plucky holly
@vapid jay I am a Software Engineer in the US
vapid jay
@plucky holly Haha.
It's ok.
Anyway, Thanks for your interest.
@plucky holly Hi, Bama.
Do you think I can get any job on this channel?
vapid jay
@plucky holly Hhh.
You was kidding me.😂
plucky holly
🤣
vapid jay
I thought you are any hiring manager.
plucky holly
Oh no
vapid jay
plucky holly
But you cannot just say "I need a job, please help"
You should also say what you specialize in, maybe post github profile
so people know what you can do
vapid jay
yeah, right.
btw, if there are only members like you on this channel, it will not be neccessary.😫
@plucky holly Do you work with any stack?
ember gate
So I'm thinking about going into Cyber Security, it's a big growing field and I have an opportunity to get a headstart in that field. But I'm looking for a class or a training program that could help me learn the necessary coding languages in depth. Anyone have any ideas?
plucky holly
I don't tie myself to a specific stack or technology @vapid jay
I do work in cybersecurity
ember gate
Do you enjoy it??
plucky holly
@ember gate Yes, its a very useful field to have knowledge in
ember gate
Do you have any classes or training programs to recommend? How did you train yourself?
ember gate
Ok awesome thanks!
plucky holly
You are welcome
There are alot of areas of cybersecurity...some include network security, reverse engineering, vulnerability research, software engineering to create tools to support cyber defense/offense
ember gate
That sounds really cool
plucky holly
Knowledge of linux is important...there are also some that specialize in windows
ember gate
If I spend my last two years of high school studying coding and cyber security I could have a job lined up with a company by the time I graduate
plucky holly
Its possible, you are going to a 4 year college after highschool, right?
ember gate
Or if I learn game coding and programming in mobile app development, I have an in with NinjaKiwi as well
Yes i plan to
plucky holly
Ok
I would suggest you start by learning the basics of Networking
Get familiar with Linux
ember gate
ok awesome! I'll look for some courses in Linux, thanks so much!
plucky holly
You are welcome!
willow cedar
hi there!
sonic ether
hello!
i wanna learn more about webscraping. but i do not reach to find some great lessons about it. do u have any good websites where i can learn as much as possible things about this? thanks (please tag me for answer)
spring parcel
hey im also interested in going into cyber security but am confused on whether you need to be fluent in python to be a good ethical hacker?
im looking to either get a degree on computer science bsc or cyber security bsc which would you recommend? I've got 2 years to plan!
sonic ether
hey im also interested in going into cyber security but am confused on whether you need to be fluent in python to be a good ethical hacker?
@spring parcel not worry 🙂 . i love learning new things about python. and a few time ago i heard about doing bots and ia. So i would like to begin by make things on internet and websites by using python (currently bs4 and requests). So i reach to scrap some sites but i would like to reach to make some action like press buttons or fill some gaps... thanks for answers
@spring parcel concerning your degree i cannot help u (i am in my last year of scolarity in france so i am in the same year as you i guess 🙂
plucky holly
For cybersecurity I feel the most important thing is to know the concepts behind it. Having a good foundation in networking, reverse engineering, operating system concepts is key. And like @sonic ether said, knowing how to make things related to how the internet works is good
@spring parcel
sonic ether
@plucky holly yes but it is that things i would like to learn about
plucky holly
Also @spring parcel , this is just my personal opinion, but I think a degree in computer science with a focus in cybersecurity is a better foundation than a degree in cybersecurity. It makes you well rounded when you have that computer science foundation
I would say a few important cybersecurity languages are Python, C, and Assembly
sonic ether
Yes but do you have any websites or books that are very good on the webscraping and actions on internet...
sonic ether
Thanks i will look at this!
spring parcel
@sonic ether aha nope i dont think im in the same year as you! im only 16! and in england we have a-levels which is a step before university and im in my first year of a-levels so i got 1 year left and thats why im getting opinions on studying computer science or cyber security at university. @plucky holly So at first I was looking to do an overall degree in computer science and then realised there was a specific degree on Cyber Security so thats why i need opinions on whether to pick either one. I'm really keen on going into cyber security but I feel like with a computer science degree I can have a wider option.
plucky holly
@spring parcel I'm not sure what specific courses are offered in your cybersecurity program
of course cybersecurity degree is good for a cyber career, but also depends on degree program and if you want to be more well rounded or only focus on cyber specifically
I work in cyber security and I have computer science degrees, but took courses that were necessary to have a good cyber foundation
plucky holly
I studied in the US East coast
plucky holly
Yes, it is definitely a rewarding field
It is more challenging than other careers in web development, application development
spring parcel
@plucky holly ok so I had a look at a University and they basically summarised what is taken in a cyber security course
Your course will begin with an introduction to cyber security. You will also learn about computing principles, including the essentials of programming and algorithms, software engineering, and mathematics and computer architecture.
You will go on to hone your knowledge in specialist modules that examine key topics in security. Your computing modules will focus on skills in analysis, design and development, while a team project will help you to develop team-working skills.
Finally, you will focus on advanced cyber security topics. This will help you to direct your studies so they reflect your interests and career ambitions. At the end of your course, you will design and develop a security-related project.
After completing the course, you will have the necessary knowledge and skills to embark on a career in cyber security.
but with a computer science degree, what jobs could you go into besides cyber security?
plucky holly
With a good computer science program, you can do alot of different things...software engineering/research related to operating systems, networking, machine learning
computer science is just a more generalized degree
cybersecurity is more specific
I took a reverse engineering course as part of my computer science degree as well as computer security and both helped me for my cyber career.
Really depends on if you want a general degree or a degree specific to cyber. I see that alot of cyber skills that people have are gained in practice rather than in course work although coursework helps of course
spring parcel
you've been very helpful, I appreciate it! At the end of the day for me it all depends on my grades and whether i can get into a good university.
plucky holly
@spring parcel You are welcome!
sonic ether
@spring parcel i am 17 years old...
spring parcel
@sonic ether ah so nearly same
blazing jungle
Honestly if “making it look neater” was the only thing that stuck out, you did pretty well
@white karma you were right! I got the job. Thanks for your support 😭
white karma
Wew lad congratulations!
burnt fox
does it make sense to start learning data science and progress into machine learning ?
plucky holly
machine learning is a subset of datascience
You may find it easier to start with non-ML datascience
burnt fox
ah okay thanks! I was afraid that the progression wouldn't make sense and it'd be practical to just study machine learning
royal lichen
So after learning python
where do i start work and get money?
kindred pumice
@nimble locust Going to a top school isn't the end-all be-all that people make it out to be. You can graduate from a top school but end up losing a position to someone with no college degree because they have spent that four years more effectively than you. For the most part, the top ~20 schools are going to get the same offers from companies because the difference between the students isn't that big anyways. The only downside to going to a private school like CMU or MIT is that the costs are relatively high compared to a state school or something like Lamda School (free until you get a job). Going to a top private school will probably result in a larger salary as a junior (expect at least ~20% higher than no-name state school) but that could be irrelevant if you're in a lot of debt from four years at these schools.
nimble locust
Thanks!
blazing jungle
@blazing jungle Congrats!
@mortal wedge thank you!
vapid jay
hey im still in school and im looking for something that could provide a good amount of money and something to do with coding
anyone got any ideas?
vapid jay
Because i only know discord.py im thinking, part time discord.py dev ;-;
fallow dock
There will probably be a good amount of demand for discord.py devs since there are plenty of people who don't want to learn the code themselves.
vapid jay
I have a question. I'd like to go for an internship at a big company or a well-known startup that uses Django.But I can't find such companies when I look for them. Do you have any recommendations?
I'm turning off notifications. So I would be nice if you could mention it.
white karma
@vapid jay Dont limit yourself to just the big ones
vapid jay
I'm sorry
gilded valley
@vapid jay usually big companies don't advertise specific technologies like that for internships. Well known start up is an oxymoron
vapid jay
I want to go to an internship as big as a big company to build my school's track record.
tulip musk
hey I've been studying for the last 6 months and Im starting to feel a bit more comfortable with python and django and how different pieces fit together. I want to get just some dev job anywhere in the boston area. Do any of you have suggestions for projects to do that will help my portfolio stand out as an entry level dev? Really any advice to help my portfolio/resume look hirable would be greatly appreciated. SO far Ive built a couple portfolio websites. And a simple to-do list django website with user authentication and a mysql backend. I;m really just trying to gauge what amount of project experience I need to be hirable.
hushed axle
Hi guys, so far I've taken basic courses on Python/SQL - and I want to get into Business Intelligence (and maybe Data Science as an end goal). I've mainly been focusing on working with APIs in Python so far, and will work my way up to working with datasets using Python/SQL/Power BI. Is this a good plan to have, if I'm interested in becoming a BI Analyst?
mortal wedge
@tulip musk Having a site someone can navigate to with a user login is huge. I don't know if there's really a set amount of projects you need to become hirable. Sounds like you could get an entry level web dev job
white karma
That’s encouraging
mossy copper
@tulip musk I got my first web dev job in 2014, my github at the time was two flask websites, one with basic auth, one without, a drupal website (Gotta pay the bills), and like a dozen broken video games.
You may not need as much as I had since mine was technically a career shift.
lyric harness
what up everyone. if i have a bachelors in finance and an MBA would picking up python/SQL really benefit me for future roles? i’m already in a financial analysis oriented role that mainly uses Excel. i’ve been learning python as a hobby and really enjoying it. i know there’s a need for people that aren’t necessarily full blown programmers but business people somewhere in the middle. just hoping someone could provide me with some advice since resources out there don’t have answers specific to my situation
modest epoch
Python Help: Available
mortal wedge
Python as a hobby would probably help you automate a lot of stuff, since there are excel writer and readers (although generally people don't prefer dealing with excel files in python)
Don't know enough about financial analysis to offer specific advice, but seems like it couldn't hurt.
fervent hamlet
If by financial analysis you mean quants, then yes, Python/C++/C# is the way to go
If you mean just PnL analysis or simple spreadsheet stuff like that Python will help there too
spiral saddle
Are there any good or well known/respected certifications for Python? I’m currently trying to get some certifications under my belt to find my first IT job
nocturne arrow
something like AWS can be super helpful
but as far as i know nothing for python that would make you stand out
spiral saddle
All I’ve seen is Python Institute but it seems they’re a newer certification. Also I’m currently studying for CompTIA A+ and Network+, eventually getting the Security+ one as well
nocturne arrow
What's sort of IT job are you looking for?
spiral saddle
Either networking or data analytics
nocturne arrow
If you're not going for a dev job then I can't see how a cert for python could do anything but help.
but I don't know much about IT jobs outside of support engineers/developers
spiral saddle
I’ve seen a lot of information saying that Python is used a lot with data analytics and it’s also the main language I used in college for analyzing large amounts of data
I appreciate the help
past jolt
Yoooo so I just graduated from a coding bootcamp and trying to get my first software development role any suggestions to get that first position anywhere?
tulip musk
@mossy copper @mortal wedge thank you!! I guess I just need to make my resume look better then!
mortal wedge
You're welcome, you can do it!
honest shuttle
by using which projects i can gain interest in python as i am a beginner
mortal wedge
!projets
inner wrenBOT
mortal wedge
@honest shuttle Try these ^
midnight skiff
Hello Guys
I got a questions
Regarding a degree
amyone willing to respond
Will this degree be good to join IT industry?
visual loom
magic osprey
Hello
pale egret
why are you here?!
tender thicket
Ok
obsidian acorn
@past jolt have you worked on any projects that can showcase your skills?
@midnight skiff have you started this program or you are looking into which program to go for?
obsidian acorn
what is your end goal?
do you know, potentially, what you want to do within engineering?
midnight skiff
To work in Networking then be a ethical hacker
@obsidian acorn what you mean engineering?
obsidian acorn
Have you considered programs just for those?
have you had any college experience yet?
midnight skiff
Yeah
I mean I have BTEC level 3 in IT
Diploma
But for degree I am thinking if I should take this Business Information System
I am kinda confuse what to really take or what to focus on the end goal
I am not really interested in programming in a deep level of data structures and algorithms
That I know
But my brain shows some interests on cyber security like pen tesings
@obsidian acorn
obsidian acorn
I see
maybe getting a degree in info sec might help
but this degree looks good based on what you are looking for then
but in terms of experiences, you may want to work on some infosec project
midnight skiff
Won't it be better if I take certifications
After BIS degree
then shift to Info sec
obsidian acorn
well, on LEVEL 6 one of the options is cyber security
so you can start wtih that
but in terms of being able to join the job market fast after graduation, you may want to be working on those experiences along the way
midnight skiff
I believe that Cyber Security will be based on that business or just fundamentals
I don't think they will teach us Ethical Hacking
obsidian acorn
exactly, which is why, you may want to either do a trade school, or work on side projects, and learn those on your own
vapid jay
You can learn ethical hacking yourself quite easily, it's just a matter of learning pen-testing tools
mortal wedge
You'll learn how to hack in cyber security
But the main idea is that you're learning how to protect systems, but ofc you can't learn how to do that without also learning how to enter systems
distant crow
someone's gotta test those pens
mortal wedge
I'm actually working with someone right now who used to do cybersecurity for the CIA
and he's a hacking expert
uncut nexus
its mostly Social engineering now
mortal wedge
True
old silo
grim star
How do you get started with Data Science or Machine Learning?
What should you know first with python, Pandas?, Numpy?
vestal pelican
these are pretty much what you use, yeah, though you can probably learn them as you go
Don't know any DS courses, but here's a very good introductory ML one (not in Python): https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-learning
grim star
@vestal pelican thank you. I don’t really like the styling of Django, I like JavaScript but it’s not as direct at times with what you use. also, using Django, it’s mainly ML and DS is what python is wanted.
@vestal pelican what is good to start with... pandas? Numpy?
vestal pelican
they are used for pretty different stuff. Numpy is general numerical computation stuff and n-dimensional, but homogenous(!) arrays, with support of vectorized operations on them. Pandas is for storing spreadsheets, essentially - in them, every column has a certain type, but different columns certainly don't have to.
grim star
@vestal pelican I watched a video that used it for stock probabilities, I liked it.
@vestal pelican I like hooking up things to work/show like api, but, the DS or ML is what’s really the main thing?
vapid jay
i want to work for google but i suck at coding even python
grim star
Which one do you start with first Numpy or Pandas?
trail merlin
I would start with panda
trail merlin
What should I start learning to do with python for getting an internship around 18 I'm 14 atm
mortal wedge
I'd start with numpy, pandas is heavily based off of pandas
A dataframe object is the core object in pandas and is basically a 2nd numpy array with labels
mortal wedge
I'm not sure what projects would be good for learning numpy. I use it for scientific computing. Maybe #python-discussion would have some suggestions
I just watched a tutorial
When you're done with that,, here's one by the same guy on pandas. Highly recommend both
trail merlin
Thanks
mortal wedge
np
plucky holly
You can learn ethical hacking yourself quite easily, it's just a matter of learning pen-testing tools
@vapid jay this is true...the tools and the architecture
Yes, start with numpy @trail merlin
numpy has the fundamental data structure (array/matrix) for many other data science and data related python libraries
A project involving linear algebra would be good to do in numpy
past jolt
@obsidian acorn Not with python but with full stack development yes, you can take a look at my work at christiandowns.info if your interested
solar crane
Hi! anyone know a course to learn data structures and algorithms?
vapid jay
https://algs4.cs.princeton.edu/10fundamentals/ this one is pretty good, is in java, but you can easily replicate it in python
swift veldt
saving this. Thanks!
gilded valley
mit 6.006 is pretty good and has python based code questions - there's a link pinned in #algos-and-data-structs
grim star
How much understanding of python, Django, do you need for Datascience? I’ve been focusing on flask and Django (I prefer Django)
pulsar drum
I have my doubts that there is a significant overlap between web development and data science in most cases
gilded valley
web dev is a tool that gets used in data science. Stuff like making dashboards or exposing ML models
cobalt acorn
Anyone work in Professional Services? I'm having a hard time figuring out if this is the right move from a large company to a post-sales engineer role. Im considering a move from a Solution Architect into a DevOps consulting role for a mid-tier consulting firm
grim star
@pulsar drum @gilded valley does it take allot to get started with Datascience? What are the top things to be familiar with? I like the concept of how you can predict stocks.
south apex
Hey everyone, I am applying for a job for django but I have only four working examples to show them is it enough
Does the number of repositories in github matters for getting a job
I'm just confused
Please help me
gilded valley
Stocks specifically is pretty different to normal data science, looking at much more specific and detailed signals in traditional market data rather than the alternative data that is associated with data science today. But traditional data science is mostly just being able to understand stats, understand different ML models, and understand how to wrangle data in a sensible way; and apply it to some specific problem domain. I don't really think I can quantify how difficult or easy it is, but the core components are: statistics, ml-models and how to evaluate them (from a high level perspective, you don't need to be too familiar with actually implementing them), and how to present findings with data visualisation and whatnot
vapid jay
I'd really want to become a quant developer, making algos for stocks and all. how to get there, is what I don't know!
marsh wind
web dev is a tool that gets used in data science. Stuff like making dashboards or exposing ML models
@gilded valley yeah but it seems even in smaller companies like mine web devs do that. Max data scientist Do is expose data via api if it needs specific processinf
torn grail
Hey everyone, I am applying for a job for django but I have only four working examples to show them is it enough
@south apex
Assuming you are a fresher, the number of repositories won't matter. Also 1 working example can seal the deal provided you know the code inside out and it has a personal touch to it. It's very easy to simply follow a blog and code something but that won't show your talent to be creative with coding. So yea my advice would be don't chase the numbers, aim for the quality and if possible make 1 unique example where you can justify every single line of code
plucky holly
@torn grail True
Also a good employer in my opinion would rather have someone who is a good software engineer than someone who knows every single part of django syntax
but is not a good software engineer
So just be a good software engineer first
Know concepts of web application development and security
warm lintel
hello
grim star
@gilded valley what’s good to start with? Or what project I a good example of Datascience?
warm lintel
what
chilly gull
dm me to help me build something will give details of what we r building
tardy coral
whats the fastest way to earn money with python programming and what other skills are recommended?
grim star
@gilded valley what should I start with for Datascience.... Numpy, pandas?
regal plank
apply at intuit, got hired quickly
marsh wind
@grim star study the job market, see what they require in job listing.
Don't keep tagging same guy multiple times for same question that's not polite
Otherwise yes, statistics, numpy pandas and ML Libs are good to start
grim star
Thank you. I have a jupyterlab setup. How much do you need to know to even do volunteer “for experience”, work?
distant jolt
im studying for an interview tmr, and would like to recap on data structures. do yall have any resources?
grim star
Concentrating on Numpy first, what are some key things to focus on? Before starting on Pandas
vapid jay
you can do projects and competitions.. numpy.. well that's an odd question
take up a project, see it through.. imo you don't need to know everything you can do with numpy.. it's for matrix calculations .. or even pandas for that matter
nowadays, we have dask and rapids on top of pandas.. methods will change, what you apply them for, that's more important to understand
obsidian acorn
@distant jolt what language?
This could be of good use
https://python.swaroopch.com/data_structures.html
grim star
@vapid jay so, is Numpy or Pandas a good start for getting into data science? Or is there something else to know better?
vapid jay
data science is an umbrella term.. it really depends on what industry and where you're starting @grim star
crimson bone
Hello everyone i dunno if this is the right place to ask or not so sorry if it's not
I wanted to ask I want to go into game development more specifically game programming so learn first is pygame worth it ir should i stsrt with untiy and C# or something else i don't know and I can't seem to find any answer on web so if anyone could help me point in the riggt direction it would mean alot and thanks in advance.
grim star
@vapid jay what would be a close path, to web design? I’m getting started with Numpy/pandas because I started studying Python. I’m not liking styling with web design but the backend of JavaScript and Python.
vapid jay
hmm sorry I'm quite far away from web design.. best ask someone else
sounds like you have trouble figuring out what you want to do?
grim star
@vapid jay well, I’m interested now because of python. I started with JS, but I like python more. I don’t like “styling”, I like making things work.
vapid jay
cool.. so data science is more about analytics, optimization.. understanding processes, and occasionally databases and sql
grim star
Ok, i do like the database side of things, I was using Django when I got interested in DB, but, is there a extensive background to know before Numpy or Pandas?
Django Rest Framework, is what got me interested more in DS
marsh wind
Django Rest Framework, is what got me interested more in DS
@grim star that's kinda weird hehe. But point is, data science is not about numpy or pandas, or even python. It's about understanding the data, being able to draw insights from it, create visualization, clean the data, build a model
I know some absolutely amazing data scientists who's code sucks
Like code style, overall look of it can be terrible. But they know their shit when it comes to data
Don't get blocked by the tech (it can be python, R, Scala) cause it doesn't define a person as a data scientists.
There is a reason there's a word "science" there 😉
grim star
@marsh wind ok 👍, what would you recommend knowing well or to focus on to getting started with DS?
grim star
@marsh wind I don’t have a degree. I almost went into engineering in 2010, but college wanted me to take 2 semesters of classes I would of gotten no credit for. I like JavaScript and python.
@marsh wind I self studied trig and pre-cal, the basics. I like Calulus but it’s been a while
marsh wind
Tbh in DS they pretty much expect a master degree or solid bachelor and some proven experience
grim star
I was told you don’t. You can learn use it.
I don’t like styling with web design, I like the backend of JS and python. but, as far as need/want..:: it’s the Datascience and machine learning is what is a constant want with Python
marsh wind
US?
grim star
Yes
marsh wind
Well I am not there to so don't want to make claims
We have few us guys who can confirm or not that statement
But usually if you don't have degree the path to data science lies through data analyst roles for example
grim star
So data analysis dosnt need collage?
I want to get into a spot that, it’s a need, more precise to the work you do and not repetitive like styling
marsh wind
They might too but might be easier to convince them to hire you.
Backend wev dev like JS, Django etc for web usually is easier for no degree
grim star
I like Django..... it’s just repetitive to things that are always changing tho, not that color, radius or font .... I want to do something that’s more of a need
grim star
I’m not too sure really on what to do. I know Vue.js well and React, then -Javascript- I like it but there’s allot of variations you go through to do one thing so I haven’t caught onto it much, I like it tho. But, Python and Django... I like. But, again, I want to be in a position that is truly needed vs wanted. So I’m not to sure what to do.
humble glen
Hello, I hope you guys are doing well. I've been recently applying to a couple of jobs as devops and technical support while I finish my degree and I realized I didn't include some courses I took (numerical methods, stochastic process and computational statistical physics).
Should I add them to my CV and try to apply data analysis jobs?
crude crown
if they're for entry level jobs, it might make sense.
although I can't imagine data analyst gigs that might make use of the content in those courses.
distant crow
I’m not too sure really on what to do. I know Vue.js well and React, then -Javascript- I like it but there’s allot of variations you go through to do one thing so I haven’t caught onto it much, I like it tho. But, Python and Django... I like. But, again, I want to be in a position that is truly needed vs wanted. So I’m not to sure what to do.
@grim star if you know Vue.js (good choice) then you're already handling a lot of MVC (MVVM) stuff client-side. Django is also MVC, so you've got an overlap of duty here, and to be honest, you're probably going to want to continue doing those things on the frontend. What I'd recommend for you instead, is FastAPI. Not only is it geared specifically at backend APIs, and therefore complement your frontend choice rather than leaving you with conflicting decisions of what functionality to put where; the heavier emphasis on type hinting (including run-time type checks) is more in line with javascript (if you use TS) and APIs are where you benefit more from type safety. It also has websocket servers (which Flask doesn't) as well as integration with GraphQL (which Flask does have)
some of the most responsive web frontends I've made used vue.js with websockets and JSON-RPC to a python backend. Checkout vue-native-websocket
crude crown
I've been using FastAPI in my day job, it's aight
distant crow
doesn't help you with your data science aims though. But still, highly recommend FastAPI over Django for someone withy our skillset already good with frontend frameworks that are handling MVC/MVVM
humble glen
if they're for entry level jobs, it might make sense.
@crude crown Yeah, I was mainly looking for entry level stuff. Should I try to look for jobs in other areas? I'm already starting some online courses on data analysis.
crude crown
I would try to keep my options open.
grim star
@distant crow thank you! How does that compare tho to the type of need of Datascience? It seems like DS would be more precise and higher pay because of the details
crude crown
I assure you it's not higher paying in comparison with backend development or data engineering.
distant crow
I don't have a good answer for you on datascience, my answer was focused only on what would be better than Django for your current skillset in the world of python backends for web platforms
grim star
@crude crown what backend development is good to focus on then? That’s more precise
crude crown
What do you mean with precise?
grim star
@distant crow ok 👍 what is fastAPI like vs Django?
@crude crown I mean by the type of work, like styling is up in the air at times, so when you do something.... it’s more defined to what your making work
distant crow
it's much more focused on being an API, and doesn't deal at all with any of the views. It also doesn't touch data models, leaving that up to your implementation (you can use the graphene integration with GraphQL or something else for that)
crude crown
Please don't take this the wrong way but you should start with being more comprehensible when you write.
usually being a bit more specific helps. Let me see if I understand by what you mean with "precise".
data science work is not as straightforward compared to backend development due to the higher degree of uncertainty with respect to results and on how to achieve them. In this sense, I'd say "typical" software development is more "precise" (i.e. predictable).
grim star
@crude crown I mean that as in.... you have a rainbow of colors and infinite numbers, and you have to style something that different every time, so, I mean precise as In a batter layout of what your making work
@crude crown what part of python would you recommend?
I like making things transition or get “added” like a product, Django to be handled that better. But it’s always different but kinda the same, as in picky in a way
grim star
Is the Django Rest Framework, used often?
edgy magnet
Hey. Hello everyone. I am new in programming. Can anyone provide me the list of things I need to learn to become a full stack developer?
cobalt acorn
Do many of you negotiate before or after a written offer has been sent to you? Just wondering as i'm starting negotiations but i usually prefer full written offers to evaluate the details
steep geyser
I would wait for the offer so you can see what the company is fulling offering (ie. vacation, benefits, profit sharing, etc.) If they aren't willing to move on salary and you value vacation, maybe get an extra week or find out if they allow unpaid vacation
@cobalt acorn
distant crow
@edgy magnet
- frontend part of the stack
- backend part of the stack
- databases
- a little server admin or devops
exactly what those entail depends on which stack
eternal nest
Should I be worried because I failed Google's Foobar test?
Asking here because well, I also tried it via python
distant crow
why, do you think they'll find out and mark you down as having failed forever?
eternal nest
While that has crossed my mind, no, my worry is more that... am I that bad at solving stuff?
hot goblet
@vapid jay so, is Numpy or Pandas a good start for getting into data science? Or is there something else to know better?
@grim star better start with SQL
with SQL alone it is possible to get a job
hot goblet
well, somebody always needed to retrieve data, there is no possible way to start data science without SQL
shadow moss
Sure, but basic SQL isn't hard
hot goblet
he might be bogged down with complicated models, better focus on SQL
distant crow
SQL is not a full-time job
nobody's going to hire someone whose full time job is to write or optimize SQL
shadow moss
Code + Basic SQL is better then no code + Advanced SQL
hot goblet
basics are learned within hours, yes but what about highly optimized complicated stuff
shadow moss
Few companies need it
hot goblet
banks
shadow moss
I deal with 2TB databases, very rarely I have to dip into them pulling data and I basically use basic SELECT, WHERE, occasional JOIN
distant crow
it's true, some SQL wizardry is needed but as I just said, it's not needed constantly, so you're not going to get a job where your only task and only skill is SQL
hence this:
with SQL alone it is possible to get a job
is not accurate
shadow moss
am I forced to hit database more then some of our data analysts? Sure
you know who doesn't care? My job
data retrieved and put into CSV
and I work in finance
hot goblet
whoa, are you a quant?
marsh wind
Having someone very strong in sql in team is important
But their sql won't be reason they got hired most likely
Also it's not assured that that there's no way to start ds job without it
Cause there are cases where no sql db are used
crude crown
indeed
marsh wind
Or when interaction with sql is abstracted away from DS guys and put in some form of API
On my first project of current job there wasn't sql db
And while knowing sql can still help it can also be an obstaclesl cause with sql you think in a specific way not always fit for no sql
night rock
Hello I am thinking of starting freelancing for web development
I've made a website to showcase on Fiverr and other websites
Can anyone give me some feedback
distant crow
it's true, you do need to learn a different set of structures for nosql. but as with most things, you're better off having exposure to both so you can contrast and compare. Some people without sql experience don't know when nosql is inappropriate for a given task, and end up writing a bunch of scripts for an app that would be replaced by a single join query had they used sql/rdb instead
Lunis, I suggest not describing yourself as an "aspiring" web develper, and also not describing yourself as "self taught"
night rock
Then what
Just web developer, what should I add instead of "aspiring"?
Ok I will do that
I don't know what else to add though, what else do freelancers usually add?
distant crow
maybe look at other freelancer's sites
the issue with using the term "aspiring" and "self taught" is, as a potential client, I don't want to hear that. I'd rather you weren't an "aspiring" web dev, I'd rather you were a "real" web dev (whatever that means). and I'd rather you weren't self-taught, I'd be happier knowing that at least someone who knew something taught you and there was at least one person in your life who explained to you how to not make the common mistakes
split heath
For me the hardest part is the volume of applications you have to put out, in order to have employers reach out to you. I just found this website that does the matching for you which is cool if anyone is interested.
distant crow
that's not to say you can't be self-taught, I, as a client, don't want to hear it, it doesn't inspire confidence. so I don't think you're doing yourself any favours adding that on your site. you're putting yourself at a disadvantage for no gain. No client's going to be like "wow, this person is self taught, that must mean they're better than the ones with formal tuition!"
night rock
That does make sense
distant crow
again, I should stress: being self-taught doesn't mean you can't do the job, you very much can
night rock
Should I make another more general business website to showcase or should I just start?
distant crow
no, the rest of this is fine probably. I don't look at a lot of portfolio sites so I can't really help with the rest of it
night rock
Ok thanks for the help
night rock
Hmm it seems you can't even upload your website on Fiverr
wintry imp
how do u start contributing to other repos ?
fervent hamlet
Find a repo you're interested in, read the guidelines on opening pull requests, fork the repo, make your changes, create a pull request
Change PR according to feedback
And then they either accept and merge or they dont
Hacktoberfest is soon and orgs encourage people to contribute to open source
Also you get a free shirt if you make 5 successful PRs
wintry imp
thnx heaps bud
vapid jay
again, I should stress: being self-taught doesn't mean you can't do the job, you very much can
@distant crow what exactly is self-taught? My friends in CS do not have any of this in their curriculum. So on that basis, everyone's a self-taught dev since the teachers in University cant teach everything
distant crow
what would your definition be?
vast shoal
I think people would normally use that term to describe someone who has no formal education.
vast shoal
People do learn to code at school.
CS programs generally have extensive programming or programming-related classes.
marsh wind
also they might have strong focus on DSA
and stuff like big(O) and etc
while self taught usually on't go deep into that
tardy coral
out of curiousity, what are my job chances self taught programming vs degree in that area
vast shoal
In what area?
distant crow
yes, the problem of calling yourself "self-taught" is what you're trying to say is "I'm very smart and I've worked all this out on my own, I have good self-directed learning abilities" but what people hear is "there may be gaps in my knowledge and I may be doing things in an inefficient way because I skipped over learning something fundamental"
nothing wrong with being self taught. I'm self taught
(but shhhhh nobody needs to know)
vast shoal
I think if you're going to have any chance of being hired when you're self-taught, you need to make up for your lack of academic credentials with other types of credentials. Like, a portfolio, open source contributions, released apps, etc.
distant crow
unlikely if you already have work experience
for first jobs...also unlikely
unless it's a graduate program and a big company with an HR department
oh yes, anything high security might take it more seriously
I'm not sure anyone's ever checked mine
In theory I have a degree certificate...somewhere, nobody's asked to see it. They could have contacted the university though, but again seems unlikely
I've definitely seen people who've exaggerated their education background on their resume - tried to pass off a short summer camp at a prestigious university as studying there; or people who double-count their university projects as work experience
that applicant was a character, you go to his github and he's got a profile picture of him in front of that university, wearing a university shirt. And he's got github contributions to things like Tensor Flow
turns out he fixed a typo in documentation
and also turns out he attended a 1-week summer camp at the university
vast shoal
@plucky quarry Most likely, people generally just use the education credentials to filter resumes, and count on catching onto people who fake it in later interviews and technical tests.
Being caught lying on your resume is quite bad, though.
Very risky move.
distant crow
I'm not going to hire someone who's comfortable with making this level of deception
I think this behaviour is problematic
vast shoal
@distant crow Yeah, that's a huge red flag.
My first thought would be "Why do you feel like you need to make yourself out to be someone you're not? What are you covering up?"
@plucky quarry Even if they aced their technical interviews and tests, they have forever branded themselves as a crazy person.
I don't want to work with or rely on a crazy person.
No matter how skilled they might be.
Who knows when they might suddenly pull some shit like that again?
distant crow
to be fair, if they aced technical interviews, I'd reconsider, but once you stripped out the exaggeration from this application, you weren't left with much, and I'd rather give the limited time we have for reviewing resumes and doing interviews to candidates who are just as (or more) qualified who don't lie
vast shoal
I think there are a lot of important factors to consider beside technical ability when making a hiring decision.
distant crow
yes, "can I work with this person", "can the team work with this person"
vast shoal
And deciding to fake going to a prestigious university in such a meticulous and calculated way is disturbing to say the least.
distant crow
we've fired really technically excellent people because they were totally toxic to be around
vast shoal
It's not just painting yourself in an overly positive light, it's creating an entire fake persona.
distant crow
yep. unfortunately it's not foolproof. with hiring you have to somehow make an accurate judgement in probably only a couple of hours actual contact time in total. it's just not possible to be sure about how this person will behave or perform in the months or years that you work with them
there's a lot of different ways. in general they're toxic if their personality is pulling everyone else down or spreading it
in this specific case, the guy would get outraged by every change of plan, every change in design, and needed all plans to be provided months in advance and documented to extreme details
vast shoal
@plucky quarry That may be the case, but it doesn't really change anything on the employer end.
If it's discovered, it's a clear indication that it's not a good hiring decision.
I'm not even saying it's immoral, I'm just speaking from a practical standpoint.
People who lie once tend to lie again.
Dishonest employees are harmful to the business.
distant crow
I don't think you have to be concerned about doing these kinds of things (the behaviour I mentioned), to me it feels like this is something you get from working at a large company where they have the resources to provide this level of planning, and on projects that have long-term stability, and then got screwed by internal politics or something
and then forever more harboured resentment for both large companies (probably motivating a decision to apply to smaller companies) and change of plans, which is unfortunately ironic because smaller companies have less well-developed plans and also fewer people to support documenting these plans
vast shoal
@plucky quarry If you're friendly, reasonable and empathetic with your coworkers, you're probably not going to be toxic.
distant crow
I've seen much worse though - people who are stressful to be around, who as good as they are at their job, do so at the expense of everyone else's mental health
vast shoal
Just follow the Python Discord Code of Conduct and you'll be fine.
distant crow
there's more than one way to communicate with people. and there's more than one way to get stuff done. These are the soft skills that you learn, and probably a large part that separates experienced employees from inexperienced ones, and it's entirely separate from technical skills
only doing what you're told and not communicating back is actually not so great
mostly because you're not always going to be getting sufficient information to do your task
vast shoal
As a software developer, you'd do well in trying to coming up with your own ideas and initiatives. It's a profession where you have to be able to think independently. Or at least, that's what good developers do.
distant crow
so if you aren't able to communicate that, there's going to be problems - you're going to get stuck. or you're going to go off in the wrong direction. Also this causes uncertainty to managers and technical leads who aren't sure what you're doing or aren't sure if you're going to come back later with totally the wrong thing
vast shoal
And there's no experience threshold for doing this either. You should do it as soon as you are able.
distant crow
I think most line managers prefer someone who keeps them up to date about what they're doing (maybe once or twice a day). it's not annoying, and it's very much appreciated. Problems get solved quicker, mistakes get corrected earlier, missing information gets sought and unblocked
vast shoal
Yeah, a very important lesson that a lot of newer developers seem to fail at is that it's MUCH better to explain as early as possible if you feel like you're stuck and not able to progress. You think you're going to be seen in a negative light if you can't perform the task you were given to its exact specifications, but in actuality, any task you're given is likely incomplete, and it's much worse to bang your head against an impossible wall for 2 weeks before telling anyone about it.
distant crow
Telling people you don't have enough information to do a task is also hugely important. leaders have a job to do too. they don't just sit on a throne dictating at the world their vision (that's mostly the CEO's job), and they don't have perfect vision for what everyone else knows or doesn't know. So their job is to make sure people have the right information or decisions to do a job
vast shoal
@plucky quarry It doesn't make you look incompetent at all.
We all know everyone has different experience levels, and we all know some tasks aren't actually going to be doable in the form they were initially conceived.
distant crow
on the balance, you being blocked and just twiddling your thumbs all day until someone asks you why you haven't done your task, is worse than you asking for the information
if you've become blocked and not told anyone, or gone off on a tangent for a day, or a week. that's a da or weeks time you wasted, and more of someone else's time fixing the issue you've caused
you've generated negative value
vast shoal
As you become more experienced, you will naturally need less assistance to do your job well, so that's not really a big deal. It's most important to be humble and professional.
And the professional thing to do is to ask for help when you need it.
And not waste your time in vain.
distant crow
yes, also this is actually one of those soft skills - knowing what information to expect and ask for. you'll probably pick that up quite quickly too
just knowing what you should expect from team/tech leads helps you know when to ask questions and what questions to ask. I've worked with someone who was very good at that, and I can be sure that he's going to let me know the moment we were missing a key decision or a key piece of information
vast shoal
@plucky quarry I'm in a relatively senior developer position, and a large part of my day is spent answering questions from less experienced teammates.
I probably answer 10-20 questions a day on average.
distant crow
and yeah, he'd totally call me out if I didn't give him the information he felt I should. He held me accountable to do my job as his manager
I didn't mind one bit, it probably made me a better manager
vast shoal
@plucky quarry That's not to say that you should never try anything for yourself before asking a question. You don't learn effectively by never even attempting to find your own solution. But you should mind how much time you spend doing that before deciding to ask for help.
distant crow
a little bit, but there's more to it than technical requirements. there's also information needed for deciding on priorities and deciding between two compromises; how best to handle changes in plans; conflicting requirements coming from different places, etc. etc.
vast shoal
And gauge what your chances are of finding a solution in a timely manner.
If you don't even know what to look for and where, it's probably a good idea to ask first. If you have a hypothesis for how to solve your problem, try it, and if it fails, then you can ask.
distant crow
your manager's job is to unblock you. It's not actually their job (or shouldn't be their job) to tell you exactly what to do. It should be their job to communicate to you what needs to be done and why, and provide you with the resources you need to do your job (which may include getting time with technical or knowledge experts)
vast shoal
@distant crow You sound a lot like the good PMs from my past. I wouldn't mind working with you!
distant crow
thanks! I guess I've been subjected to a lot of bad management, so I know what not to do
it's true that if they have to provide too much, or an unreasonable amount , then you may not be qualified to do your job, and there will be questions about whether the value you add to the team is in line with what the company pays you or not
vast shoal
I've never really had a situation like that arise in any of the teams I've worked with. The only coworker who got laid off was because they had become clinically depressed and stopped doing their job.
If they are properly coached, I think most people gradually rise to at least a minimum expected performance level.
Though some turn out to be more useful than others in the long run.
distant crow
yes, you'd hope so. I think it's more of an issue with junior employees, particularly interns
some interns do in fact cause more work
and so you really have to ask whether having interns is worth it, it's often not
vast shoal
I think almost all new employees provide negative value initially. They generally break even quicker if they are more experienced. Aren't interns usually paid less, though? We've never had any at any of the companies I've worked for.
distant crow
sometimes they're good, we've hired two as full time I think
yeah, interns are paid less, but you can still have negative value - if an intern is slower and has to take the time of more experienced people to guide them, it could take more of that person's time to do that than actually do the task themselves. In those situations you really have to ask whether this task shouldn't have been given to an intern; whether this was not the right intern for the task; or whether this time investment is worth it because the intern is building experience
hard to decide which of the three, tasks and people vary a lot
vast shoal
Right. Well, most interns are probably not worth it, but I guess one really good one could justify the resources spent on the ones who didn't turn out so great.
distant crow
that would be a good outcome
we've promoted at least one intern to full time, there's one other who worked with us for two summers who we made an offer to when he finished his course, but he declined and joined another company and there were others who were good too. The intern we hired had an interesting interaction with another employee which I think we were lucky to have figured out
this intern wasn't doing very well, they didn't seem to be getting anything done, but we managed to figure it out. This particular intern's personality was quite deferential, they weren't confident in their own abilities, and so accepted the opinions of others easily. Unfortunately, the junior developer who they were paired with was the opposite - wouldn't shut up at all, and quick to voice an opinion, even an uninformed one
most of the more experienced devs would call this junior's BS and probably developed filters for the stuff this junior said that didn't make any sense. However this was a problem for the intern, who was taking the junior's uninformed opinions as fact, and then getting confused and not being able to get anything done
to this day, I suspect the intern was smarter than the junior dev all along
neither the intern nor the junior dev did anything wrong, other than the junior spouting bs all the time, which most people ignored, the junior wasn't lying, or misrepresenting themselves, they just had no filters for what they were saying
but they couldn't work together, there was a personality clash that just didn't work out, and it wasn't either of their fault. We were lucky to notice this, and changed the reporting structure a bit. Things worked out well
if we hadn't noticed that this was what was going on, we'd probably have fired or not renewed the intern's contract due to poor job performance
distant crow
three lessons:
- I learned that it was possible for someone to have bad job performance due to an unfortunate clash of personalities in which neither party were really at fault. Which means I now look out for it or at least consider it a possibility when judging job performance
- the intern could have helped resolve this themselves if they had communicated their confusion to line managers, the junior dev was not their line manager. or perhaps the line manager could have paid better attention; and if not the line manager, then someone else, though not every company has that kind of support structure where there's someone else they can talk to
- should probably call out the bullshitting more, even if it is obvious to the more experienced people, it might not be for others (should have coached the junior dev on this more)
also I guess
4. probably the clearest bits of experience that helped me understand that having a job isn't a one-way street. you don't just go to a company and become corporate drone #31453, follow all the rules and guidelines, do your job, and go home. You adapt to the team and the company as much as other team members have to adapt to you. It's always a two-way street
I guess the best teams are the ones who've figured out how to work together and play to each other's strengths; but there are times when that relationship is too one-sided, and the individual is not a good fit for the team and would have had to have the others make too big of a concession to work together (or vice-versa)
grim star
What are prerequisites to learning Numpy/Pandas for going into Data Science ?
shadow moss
I will add on to what meseta says, internships are basically seasonal job interviews
night rock
How fun is programming actually as a job
I'm just doing it for extra money but how is it really?
Also I have to add my picture to Fiverr but I am 17 so I don't know if I should
Also also many of these guys who are on Fiverr write such terrible English yet they get orders?
shadow moss
cheap
Lunis, most of time, it ends up as a job for most
because you are keeping some corporate app running that is barely interesting
gilded valley
Also also many of these guys who are on Fiverr write such terrible English yet they get orders?
I've had good experience with Indians who were pretty clearly terrible at English. You just have to shift to using images and stuff to try and get across what you mean
night rock
I am also Indian so I hope my English fluency counts for something
shadow moss
Charlie, you do Fiverr?
gilded valley
no - I've paid people off of there for logos and similar
shadow moss
got it
night rock
Should I add my picture or will people not order because they'll see I am 17?
gilded valley
Fiverr lets people >13 use it I think
night rock
Yeah but people might want professionals not some random school student
gilded valley
then don't look like a random school student in the photo
put on a white shirt, stand in front of a bush, use a good camera - and bam, you have a decent headshot
shadow moss
"professional"
vast shoal
@night rock I love programming for a living. I find it really satisfying.
I think most applications are pretty interesting conceptually if you dig into them deep enough, which you often have to, but aside from that, the technical challenges that aren't directly tied to the application domain are challenging and stimulating on their own.
night rock
I've heard programming jobs are very stressful
vast shoal
I spent most of my career building financial infrastructure systems, and I didn't know anything about finance going in, but it turned out to be a really interesting field when I was forced to dig into it beyond the surface.
I think that's not really true in a lot of countries. I can't speak for where you are, but where I am, you're expected to maintain a healthy work-life balance so you don't burn yourself out. A burned out developer is of no use to anyone.
night rock
Are you in Europe or N America?
vast shoal
There's the occasional situation where you have to crunch, but it's usually only for a very short time, and even then, there's usually steps taken to prevent that situation from arising again after.
Europe
night rock
Europe has very nice work culture
vast shoal
That might be true.
I can only speak from my own experience.
I don't know what the realities are for people working in other parts of the world.
night rock
Also in freelancing in web development, how exactly do I give them their website? Do I send them the code or do I need to host it as well
vast shoal
I highly doubt they expect you to host it for them.
Maybe they want you to help them deploy it.
Or maybe they already have someone who can do that.
I don't know what's standard procedure in freelance webdev, but I would think to hand over ownership to a private Git repo is a good way to deliver the code.
night rock
Ok thanks
marsh wind
I didn't have standard career progression but so far I really love the challenge part of job
Like some people might enjoy well defined and predictive work
That pays, you do your thing leave office, don't think about it
So parts about stress, job being boring and etc don't just depend on job but also on specific person
distant crow
there are lots of reasons why someone on fiverr might be cheaper than you can find elsewhere:
- they're just not that good
- they're in a country with a lower cost of living and can afford to charge less
- they can't get work elsewhere
- it's an agency that's streamlined a process and costs (usually in a country with a lower cost of living) with a cookie-cutter product
I'm currently working with a web designer from Ukraine from Upwork, and an animator on Fiverr (location unknown, but I suspect asia due to timezones)
split heath
thats depressing
distant crow
for a job that involves hunching over a box of blinking lights, and pushing buttons all day, it's surprising any of use ever use our face muscles to smile
marsh wind
I'm currently working with a web designer from Ukraine from Upwork, and an animator on Fiverr (location unknown, but I suspect asia due to timezones)
@distant crow hehe same, I have 2 web devs from Kharkiv
From agency through upwork
digital pivot
Hi coders,
We're inviting your members to join us for the first-ever IvyHacks, a virtual hackathon organized with love by students from Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, and Princeton. Learn more at our website (https://ivyhacks.com/), apply now (http://apply.ivyhacks.com/), and subscribe to our mailing list to be the first to hear about updates (https://ivyhackathon.substack.com/)! We hope to see you virtually for four free days of fun with swag, prizes, amazing talks & workshops, and more!
Best, The IvyHacks Team
For the first time in history, students from six universities (Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, and Princeton) are joining together to organize IvyHacks, a globally accessible online hackathon. Any high schoolers 16+, undergraduates (Class of 2020-2025), and graduate students are eligible to apply. No prior experience needed! Join with a team or make new friends at the event. Ready to build bridges, break barriers? Apply here! Applications close September 27th.
🗓 The ultimate hackathon experience - 4 days, all free (Oct 1-4, 2020)
💚 80+ organizers, 1000+ hackers
👀 Amazing talks, workshops, & many more surprises
🏅 Swag, prizes (including tracks for design, PM, etc. too)
🌱 Theme: Building Bridges, Breaking Barriers
For more info check out our social media:
Website: https://ivyhacks.com
Twitter: @ivyhackathon
Instagram: @ivyhackathon
Facebook: IvyHackathon
Newsletter: IvyHackathon.substack.com
plush flame
inner wrenBOT
marsh wind
@digital pivot I afraid that's against religion here to post this
digital pivot
I only shared once so far and it's not about buying or selling anything. I posted it here instead of python-general since it's related to career development. It helped me get my resume looked at in a lot of places. I messaged lemon too and he said send it to ModMail as well and they will consider adding it to the announcements channel
Personal projects are a pretty important for getting junior position developers
white karma
And while you’re correct, it’s still considered advertising
viral ridge
a bit off topic, but with an employee stock purchasing plan, is it possible to make a buy with your own money or is it normal to only pay it out as a salary deduction
white karma
That money is better off in a 401k
gilded valley
In the UK companies can offer fairly good tax incentives to employees buying stock - to the extent that it usually is worth it
potent hornet
i think that's a great way to encourage employees to be loyal and hardworking
mossy latch
does anybody have a good python website for interview tests ?
I will have my first interview next Tuesday and I want to train some coding before
dry sapphire
oh, speaking of which...how do stock options work in NA/EU?
like if they're just a chance to purchase stock in the company, how do they increase the value of your remuneration?
mossy latch
@dry sapphire If you get shares through a Share Incentive Plan (SIP) and keep them in the plan for 5 years you won’t pay Income Tax or National Insurance on their value.
Free shares
Your employer can give you up to £3,600 of free shares in any tax year.
Partnership shares
You can buy shares out of your salary before tax deductions. There’s a limit to how much you can spend - either £1,800 or 10% of your income for the tax year, whichever is lower.
Matching shares
Your employer can give you up to 2 free matching shares for each partnership share you buy.
Dividend shares
You may be able to buy more shares with the dividends you get from free, partnership or matching shares (but only if your employer’s scheme allows it).
You won’t pay Income Tax if you keep the dividend shares for at least 3 years.
dry sapphire
@mossy latch but you actually have to pay for them?
I take it there's a discount or something?
mossy latch
Depends on the company
in the US they allow outside of your salary
here , they probably take it as a deduction
shadow moss
Gm there is no requirement in United States
So every company does it differently
Mine is salary deduction into account then they buy at (closing price - 5%) at end of quarter
dry sapphire
okay
mossy latch
Yep it depends on the company
dry sapphire
so basically, the answer to my question is "yes, you have to pay for the stock"?
shadow moss
Yep and it’s terrible deal
dry sapphire
=> the financial upside is mostly from the opportunity to buy the stock at all
(plus maybe a discount)?
mossy latch
shares from pre-tax earnings as 'Partnership Shares', with your income tax and national insurance contributions reduced accordingly. We'll also award one free matching share for every two shares you buy, up to the first £30 invested each month.
dry sapphire
then how are stock options counted as part of remuneration?
shadow moss
Stock purchasing != stock options
dry sapphire
oh, speaking of which...how do stock options work in NA/EU?
@dry sapphire this
shadow moss
Oh, in United States they are granted by company on some system
And they may not vest for certain amount of time
There is no federal law around how stock options are configured
dry sapphire
okay
and what's the exercise price like?
(is there a difference between like established companies and early-stage startups?)
mossy latch
Im not experienced to answer that question , sorry
mossy latch
I copied the share options
as of how a company contributes its probably different with each of them
shadow moss
Exercise price?
And every company is so different it’s impossible to say
Startups generally do more options in attempt to pay less cash. However their options can be worthless
dry sapphire
Exercise price?
@shadow moss by "stock option" I understand "the ability to purchase an amount of the company's stock at a set price upon certain conditions being fulfilled"
however, here the "set price" is more or less a nominal one
shadow moss
@dry sapphire minus all the legal terms, most companies offer one of following: Stock Options, Equity, Stock Purchase Plan
Stock Options are generally free grants of publicly tradable stock after certain time of service or other such markers. When and how much you can sell depends on company and stock option. Amazon is famous for granting stock options of X amount with third of X delivered on anniversary of hire date. Such stock is sellable right away. I got stock of Best Buy this way
Equity is generally free grants of stock in company that is not traded publicly but hopefully will be worth something when company is bought out or goes public. As it's not publicly traded, it's worthless upon grant but MAYBE will be big pay off. Think about employees at Uber/Lyft before they went public
Stock Purchase plan is employees who can purchase stock using their money at slight discount. This is what I'm referring to being a bad deal. You take on tax implications for minor discounts and many companies will tie up your money for few months.