Or like... how do you reverse a doubly linked list?
#career-advice
mortal wedge
It's something worth learning, especially if you're planning on applying to big tech companies.
swift pine
I will keep that in mind
I'm mostly going through the basics, I'm actually studying architecture but I want job experience and some money before graduating, and I found coding interesting
mortal wedge
Gotcha. Just to clarify, you mean architectural engineering and not software architecture, right?
swift pine
Yes
A friend told me to mix it up with 3D modelling and coding which is what I'm trying
mortal wedge
Gotcha. It definitely adds more value and makes your life easier
swift pine
Every bit helps
austere temple
Guys I am a beginer I need help
vivid dock
Sure, google uses python i'd imagine
C++, Java, and Python are the most prevalent at google, from the sources i found
distant crow
depends a lot on your role too. if you work in their Android division it'll be one set of requirements; while it's going to be different if you work in their wearables; which in turn is going to be different if you work in YouTube
viral ridge
@pastel isle u need more than python
pastel isle
Ohk like what
lapis wind
Go lang as a language aswell
considering Most of Go's stuff is done with Go lang now
but knowing the programming language is only a small part
shadow moss
For Google, C++, Go or Java
While they use Python, showing skill in typed language is key.
sweet shore
I would think Kotlin to be more of a priority than Java at Google now. But also Dart/Flutter
basically, any project that they sponsor lol
reef widget
I would think Kotlin to be more of a priority than Java at Google now. But also Dart/Flutter
I think java has no obvious future in android development as google will just keep on pushing for its own languages and framework
sweet shore
not to mention ... Oracle
shadow moss
yea, Kotlin
but even Java can show you understand typing
like we will hire Java/C++ developers for our C# team because my bosses believe they can make a transition easy enough, my boss has said they would not consider PYthon developers because of too big of leap
sweet shore
yeah ... Python <-> JavaScript is easy though
shadow moss
I've seen many companies like that, there is a fair amount of snobbery against Python because lack of typing
sweet shore
I can throw Ruby in there too, but who the heck uses Ruby anymore lol
shadow moss
and if you need Python Developers, most Java/C++/C# devs should be able to easily switch, they don't believe the opposite
white karma
Is the snobbery commonplace in the industry as a whole or just around your sector?
shadow moss
I've seen it in couple places
would I say it's universal? Of course not
but remember, many universities push typed languages because they consider it to be fundamental for understanding code
and I can't say I disagree with them even if Python doesn't enforce it
lapis wind
Its great for getting into basic concepts
But I would certainly push anyone to learn a statically typed language for a bit because you'll pick up alot even if you dont use it for everything
mortal wedge
Oh, basic programming concepts definitely. Especially since I feel a lot of people get discouraged between the time it takes to pick up a language like cpp and actually make something useful out of it.
Python excels at this
wintry beacon
Is cybersecurity a high demand field?
neon moat
wintry beacon
Thank you; my professor was shit talking cybersecurity majors saying we can’t find a job
wintry beacon
I should, hes awful at his job anyways Lmao
neon moat
🤣
but in all serious it depends on your location and where the positions you want are located
do some research yourself and see what companies are hiring for roles you are interested in 👍
wintry beacon
Sounds good! Thanks
neon moat
👍
verbal depot
when cybersecurity can pay close to entry level FAANG that's when they'll have enough talent...
white karma
How much does it pay regularly?
fossil gull
Cyber security is definitely in demand because every business needs a separate individual or team (scale dependent) for their online services. That said there’s a lot of business that still see IT as a non-revenue generating expense and so they try to lowball salaries etc.
white karma
Can’t trust online sources too much tbh
fossil gull
Pay is dependent entirely on geographic location honestly
verbal depot
like $75-$80K?
gilded valley
Cyber security is a cost centre. That means businesses are always going to be looking to cut it
verbal depot
although i guess the best type of cybersecurity is preventing it in the code to begin with
most people in cybersec i know are basically programmers anyways
fossil gull
Yep like a good home security system, or life insurance plan, it’s an upfront cost that they believe is preventing something that may never happen. The reality is that it is almost always going to in Security
Security professionals do little coding honestly
More network infrastructure design, Sysadmin stuff, monitoring, etc
neon moat
I think theres a misconception among new programmers on what Cyber Security is, you aren't sat with a hoody on in a dark corner pounding away at a keyboard battling hackers in real time
fossil gull
Yeah no one is doing that
neon moat
Cyber security can be an extremely exciting job from what i've seen, but like aww said its more to do with overall architecture, and design etc
fossil gull
It’s actually barely about prevention these days. Standards exist for infrastructure design and configuration, so it’s more about intrusion detection and stuff like that. Use of fake servers as honeypots, etc.
No real professional is going to have a preventable flaw in his business’ network. It will be a flaw in the OS or web server driven code
IIRC there was a significant problem in Windows recently due to something in the security signature of certificates
Can’t remember the details but it was a pretty big problem
neon moat
yeah I agree, more around detection 100%
verbal depot
most programmers stop programming as much by their first job promotion as far as I can see
so it's about the same
but that's pretty interesting, I thought it'd be more about prevention
we usually have infosec scans at least in our company that'll scan the code
neon moat
theres definitely a lot of prevention involved once you have detected intrusions or just general attacks
verbal depot
just another step before committing CR
neon moat
from my limited knowledge its more about slowing them down and making it not worth it financially to keep attacking you
and trying to block them as much as you can
fossil gull
Yeah I don’t want anyone to think the code isn’t a factor — it always is, but that’s what you have a team for, to check those things
wintry beacon
Do you think it would be better to switch to a general MIS degree rather than cybersecurity? I plan to get a minor in CS as well. Please @ me if i get reply, going to be driving
shadow moss
Yes
sweet shore
@wintry beacon Honestly, I would switch to a full CS, and minor in cyber lol. It's more useful
MIS is only really useful in support roles
shadow moss
or major in Security and minor in <language of country>
most needed skill in cybersecurity, writing
shadow moss
every thinks cybersecurity is some TV or DefCon conference, it's not, it's running scans and write reports for people what you find,
sweet shore
for sure, 90% of cybersec cources are "this is how you stay out of jail"
the report is 100% what your customers pay for in professional PenTesting ... they don't care the cool pivot you came up with, just "how do i stop someone else from doing the same thing". Research is a little more fun, but even more writing, because you have to prove to XYZ giant corporation that is offering a bounty that you did indeed find a reproducable problem.
shadow moss
here how you stay out of jail? 
no, it's running Nessus scans and selling it to C Suite people
sweet shore
lolol ... i was talking more pentesting, but yeah, you are right. Cyber Security as a whole is mostly vulnerability scans and remediations. Did i hear someone say SCCM?
wintry beacon
I originally started off as a comp sci major, but literally every professor in the CS department has shit reviews. So i swapped to Cybersecurity
shadow moss
but even, most cybersecurity is managing the tools
it's more sysadminy then security
vapid jay
Hello guys. I got a job offer to work with flask. do you have any good material for learning more about it?
orchid solstice
Hi, would it be weird to say in thank you note that "You made me feel valued as a candidate and not just another resume on a pile". Had a video interview that was supposed to last 45 min and was 120 min bc they took the time to walk me thru codebase and processes to be transparent about what I'd be getting into.
sweet shore
@vapid jay you got a job offer to work on a tech you don't know? congrats lol. That is rare anymore
i suggest deep-diving on the official documentation
I really like: https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/ though. He has a lot of really good stuff for flask
specifically this: https://courses.miguelgrinberg.com/p/flask-mega-tutorial
vapid jay
I really like: https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/ though. He has a lot of really good stuff for flask
@sweet shore Thanks a lot man! This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted.
haughty talon
I'll lose my shit if I ever have to do another DISA STIG
I can't give advice on education paths, but I can say, that security is way more fun to approach from a design than from a compliance standpoint
wintry beacon
i know i can google this; but google gives you so many different answers you dont know what to believe. what would be an avg entry paying job for cybersecurity?
inner birch
@wintry beacon $40-$60k around here (midwest USA).
wintry beacon
thats not too bad, thought it was more tbh, up there with comp sci
vague mural
Is machine learning competitive?
white karma
Don’t see why it wouldn’t be
shadow moss
@haughty talon Sure but most cybersecurity jobs are compliance then design esp when starting out, few poeple start out design or research side unless they were already uber elite hackers and you don't need our advice if you are that
mortal wedge
@unkempt spindle I think if people give up on even python there’s just no hope for them, lol
true harness
there's like "damn this thing is hard" giving up and "i'm never gonna be able to learn programming ffs" giving up
dry sapphire
@unkempt spindle I think if people give up on even python there’s just no hope for them, lol
@mortal wedge big part of it is probably the way they were taught
mortal wedge
Maybe. I have seen some people in help channels really struggle with basic compsci/dsa stuff because all they knew is python and that's all just abstracted.
dry sapphire
yeah
I see it in data science a lot (I used to teach)
there is way too much emphasis on "do cool ML" and not enough on "figure out basic CS and mathematics"
haughty talon
@shadow moss Ah heh, that's unfortunate, I guess some people enjoy that
brittle jungle
so much to learn
vapid jay
Question
I want to pursue a career in analytics and so I started learning python but realized I should be starting with SQL. But python is way more interesting to me.... anyone ever tried SQL?
I just don’t know if I’m smart enough for python honestly
Developing in general
distant crow
it's very common for backend python devs to need to know SQL
data scientists using python also often need to know a bit of SQL
so if you're asking "anyone ever tried SQL" the answer is that a lot of python devs have and many use it on a daily basis
in fact, some go as far as having python automatically manage and produce the SQL programmatically using query builders or full on ORM like Sqlalchemy or Django
mortal hazel
I would argue that there's a big difference between knowing simple SQL, using an ORM, and then actually knowing SQL more completely
Depending on where and what you work on, you may well need to "know SQL" but that simply be understanding basic JOIN, SELECT, etc. However it might also extend to having a broader grasp of underlying DB architecture and DB optimisation
distant crow
I think you still need to know SQL to use an ORM effectively
but my point to Taylor is that knowing SQL and knowing python isn't an either/or situation, and sometimes they're inextricably linked such as ORMs and query builders
mortal wedge
mortal hazel
Oh yeah absolutely
I just know I've seen so many jobs that ask for "knowledge of SQL databases", and then you end up never doing much more than querying and exporting data
swift pine
What is a type language?
mortal hazel
Do you mean typed?
swift pine
Yes
wintry imp
i thought SQL was like mandatory for DS stuffs
mortal hazel
@swift pine Languages are typed in the sense that they have data types i.e. strings, ints etc. Typically you talk about weak/strong typed and dynamic/static typed languages. Python is a strongly dynamically typed language
clever furnace
anyone here live in sydney
and go to uts
if so what is the best atar to get a computer science degree
dry sapphire
!rule 6
inner wrenBOT
dry sapphire
<@&267629731250176001>
mild pilot
@pine heath As it clearly says in the channel topic, this channel is NOT FOR RECRUITMENT, we do not allow any form of unnnaproved advertising anywhere on this server
pine heath
@mild pilot Sorry will remove 🙂
celest estuary
Is anyone into Penetreation testing? ^^
uncut nexus
Hmmmmm.
novel laurel
Is that a real test or a euphemism?
distant crow
it often gets shortened to pen testing, which also leads to amusing misunderstandings
mortal wedge
Is that why interviewers ask me how I would troubleshoot a pen
swift veldt
Sell me this pen shining under a whole new light.
vapid jay
it often gets shortened to pen testing, which also leads to amusing misunderstandings
@distant crow wow...didn't know that
Thanks man
mortal wedge
The same way with any topic. You just have to sit down and learn it
Okay, well, why not do a course that has you implementing projects along the way?
true harness
have you tried mit ocw?
i've never tried that course, but mit ocw is very very good
the issue is that real world problems are hard, and you can't even begin to solve them without having a solid understanding of the basics
yeah that one is pretty good
zenith sandal
Hi everyone im a student in the US.im look for advice on how to get a job or an internship as soon as possible ? I recently transferred to a 4 year school from a 2 year community College. I have an AS in CS. I'm not look for anything specific,just which classes are the most fundamental to take first in university? also for those who are employed what are the top skills that you use everyday that an undergraduate should get proficient at first? E.g data structures, unix, git, interpersonal skills
jolly furnace
some schools have a coop program which basically allows u to have access to resources to help on job search
verbal depot
@vapid jay unfortuantely with comsci there's not as much projects you can do... best way to learn is probably leetcode?
outside of traditional uni/online courses of course
fickle bough
I am a big fan of deep learning and data science
is one of those 2 careers more preferred?
I mean I've read about data science having some stuff about AI but not so in-depth
marsh wind
I mean I've read about data science having some stuff about AI but not so in-depth
@fickle bough this basically. Deep learning usually is regarded as subset of machine learning which is, in a broad sense is a subset of data science
mortal wedge
@zenith sandal For getting an internship in the US at a company like Amazon the core things they're going to grill you on are data structures and algorithms. Those should be covered in your flow chart/curriculum by the end of the 2nd year at the latest, but if they're not make sure to take them before then.
As for what you use while being employed, it really depends on field and industry. Interpersonal skills and git are something you'll be using no matter what field you're in, though.
zenith sandal
@mortal wedge thank you so much brother I'm going to take those courses next semester but my plan is to get ahead and look over YouTube for those courses that MIT & FreeCodeCamp offer. I've also done a few questions on LeetCode, hacker rank and, code wars. I try to do projects but I lack the patience and ability still to plan everything out and look up how to do every little detail
small rivet
My main goal now to study Phd A.I.
mortal wedge
@zenith sandal I'm not sure if it's your field or interest, but we do have pyweek coming up next month that would give you a chance to collaborate with a team and see a project through to completion
(Where you have a week to create a game in python)
dapper bloom
I live in the UK and I want to get an apprenticeship to get into Software Development as my future career. Does anybody know the name of the degree apprenticeships I should be looking for?
I've seen a lot of "Digital & Technology Solutions" degree apprenticeships but I'm not sure if that's what I'm supposed to be looking at.
shadow moss
ask your student advisor?
and in many cases, having apprenticeship is better then not one at all
dapper bloom
I just want to make sure I'm looking at the right ones - going through my list currently to update it.
And I don't want to get into an apprenticeship that is completely unrelated to programming since that would defeat the entire point of getting one.
zenith sandal
@mortal wedge I'm so down ! I've never participated in that or in making a whole game but it sounds really cool so how do I sign up
mortal wedge
Check out more information there then when you're ready I think you can just go to pyweek.org?
zenith sandal
Awesome I will check it out my good man
grave crow
I keep reading about data structure and algorithms
Can someone elaborate what specific in data structure is relevant ?
true harness
well, what's a list, and what's a set
how do you make them
why should i use one or the other
gilded valley
Lists, sets, dicts, stacks, queues, trees. Those are some of the core data structures, Google can give more info on each. You should have an understanding of them all, their operation's time complexity, and the problems they help solve
For more info, check out mit 6.006
viral ridge
google?
upbeat elm
inconclusive or old data
viral ridge
not rly
upbeat elm
I am getting 45k, is that net?
upbeat elm
Croatia
viral ridge
being a senior in ukraine can be good. switz, dk, norway are the highest paid
viral ridge
us is best
upbeat elm
eh
I'd work for like couple of years maybe ("I can always go back")
but QoL is much lower than EU IMO
viral ridge
how so
ocean veldt
Hi anyone out there
obtuse fractal
Yeah
fickle bough
yo, next year I'm gonna study Data Science and Knowledge Engineering(aka Data Science and Artificial Intelligence) and I'm still deciding wether to go to Scotland or the Netherlands. According to google the latter is better for my career path but I'm still not quite sure. Does anyone know if one is better than the other?
fickle bough
lmao
had to google it
now I have to try those out
it's settled then
Netherlands it is
fickle bough
don't recognise the guy, who is he?
they don't teach us Netherlands Monarchy in Spain haha
rich plinth
Piet Heijn, a navy admiral. He conquered a whole Spanish fleet by himself with like 12 million worth of silver and gold.
fickle bough
....
fickle bough
Scotland it is then
fickle bough
you lost your customer
fickle bough
nice try, Piet
rich plinth
Hahahaha
distant crow
geography is always a complex question, but you have to consider that the UK as a whole is kind of not great right now with brexit (even though coronavirus has a totally overriding effect, people aren't even thinking about brexit any more); and Netherlands being convenient to travel across europe (again, only when covid isn't on)
or if you're already in the UK, maybe staying in the country is more convenient, depends a lot on personal circumstance
noble crag
after learning basics and done some small projects from python ... how do you actually make money from it ? do i have to focus on specific path such as web development - machine learning etc ? or what should i do ?
marsh wind
Find what is interesting to you, what you like to do and try to go deeper
noble crag
tbh i am interested in making games like mobile and desktop after watching some unity videos .. but it seems like you can't use python in unity so i am not sure what to do
distant crow
have you tried Godot
Godot's GDScript is very much based on Python
it's slightly different, but perhaps since you learned python, you'd pick it up relatively easily
otherwise there's always pygame...
it's mostly pygame that's happening inside #game-development
pine bolt
tbh i am interested in making games like mobile and desktop after watching some unity videos .. but it seems like you can't use python in unity so i am not sure what to do
@noble crag Learning to code for the first time is the hardest step. Learning new languages when you know "the mindset" is not that big of a step as learning the first language, don't be afraid to learn for example C# as well. I would suggest that you chose to do something that you think is fun, then learning will just be a natural part of that 🙂 Unity has a lot of fun and interactive tutorials, try some of them out? After a google search I found lots of python gaming scripts tutorials as well. And when you are good at something, it becomes easier to make money out of it 👌
noble crag
@pine bolt yeah i think what you're saying is right .. i am just a little bit afraid of finding myself learning C# and go into unity then suddenly find out i am not able to make money and it's not working ... to find myself wasting all this time in vein
pine bolt
@pine bolt yeah i think what you're saying is right .. i am just a little bit afraid of finding myself learning C# and go into unity then suddenly find out i am not able to make money and it's not working ... to find myself wasting all this time in vein
@noble crag Yeah I can understand that feeling. Keep in mind that although gaming is a popular and a big thing, it is also part of an entertainment industry. You never know if what you do will be a hit or a miss. If you get really good then you hopefully could end up in a big gaming studio that can guarantee you a salary for at least the duration of a project.
BUT I would like to poke in with my experience. I studied game development at university but have never worked at a gaming company. That has not been a disadvantage, my knowledge have been very useful in other areas anyway. It's like, you studied Italian cuisine, sure if you end up as a chef at a BBQ-place you might not know the fine details but you still know enough to handle food and a kitchen and can learn the rest on the spot. Right?
Unfortunately there is no such thing as to when effort and reward is in perfect balance, you can never know before hand 🙂 But developers in general are highly attractive on the market
noble crag
@pine bolt thanks so much for your info yeah you're right you never know maybe a game you make is gonna hit or not ... but i believe learning C# and using it in unity will help me practice my programming skills a lot so i feel more confident in it ... even if i will switch one day for something else i will still have this knowledge i gained as you said in your cooking example
pine bolt
I wish you good luck! When I had coded for a few months and I finally started to "get it" it was like a whole new world of opportunities open up for me in terms of what I was able to do 😄 There are so many cool and fun things you can do as a developer, and without trying you will never know what is your thing 🙂
reef kayak
Anyone got any tips in doing well in a phone interview with a recruiter?
Got my first one for an internship this Friday
harsh sable
@reef kayak don't be bahave rudely to them but generally don't trust recruiters
don't talk money with them until you are ready
e.g you sat down and thought about what you are willing to accept. And even then pitch higher (for money)
You can always u-turn on money and say you are passionate about the job so you are willing to compromise on the money
Ah, your talking about an internship. So forgot money
just act keen and super passionate
research the company online
ask some questions
ask if they have an specific reading they would recommend in advance so you can get a head start
If you good luck!
rocky sparrow
reef kayak
What type of questions should I ask a recruiter in an interview?
terse sapphire
Has anyone here self-taught in order to achieve a career switch into IT from a non-IT background (outside of a hobby). My end goal would be to work in the Software Development side of DevOps, but clearly there is a long LONG road ahead.
I mean, practicing and getting experience is a good step towards it - but in order to develop a portfolio I need a solid state of knowledge to be able to advise others and even consider contributing to github projects etc...
distant crow
most of DevOps these days involves knowing how to use and configure certain tools and software. a lot of it is "I know how this works and how to set this up", and to gain that you would set up projects with those
unfortunately not really something you can just study by reading or watching tutorials, I feel you literally need to go do it and stumble over all the issues and figure out solutions
the additional challenge is DevOps doesn't exist by itself, you can't have a pure DevOps project, something needs to drive the requirements
mortal wedge
@terse sapphire I self-taught, used the quarantine for time to do it. I'm not knowledgeable in devops. Used coursera for the knowledgebase, found it very helpful
craggy elm
yeah, you need to make projects and use devops tools (CI services, octopus, build server setup, ect.) to best get some experience
cinder raptor
Can anyone tell me their experience with Python for cyber security? I heard it was a good programming language and that I'm trying to pursue a Bachelors in Information Systems Technology with a cyber security specialization, while also trying to learn python as well, like web development and such.
cloud kestrel
Python is a great general purpose programming language, and easy to learn and use. You can definitely use it for cyber-security. There's a couple of books called Black Hat Python and Gray Hat Python that may be of interest.
Note however that they are kind of dated, and use Python 2, so I would recommend you learn the language first.
Then you can port the code to Python 3. Don't bother using with Py2.
cinder raptor
And that pycharm is the way to go if you want to make projects and such then upload it to Github and the like? I've been trying to use it for some months and getting used to how it works.
cloud kestrel
Also, you may be interested in learning other languages, such as C (which will teach you memory management, and you can write exploitable programs), and ruby (which is used by metasploit).
Personally, I use VSCode, because it is much better than the free version of PyCharm for web development.
But PyCharm should be a solid choice.
cinder raptor
Also, I've read and been told that experience matters a lot in regards to working with things like Python and such, but with not having a degree, I guess its just a deal breaker if you are really going for management positions, even technical ones?
sweet shore
I think pycharm teaches you the wrong things if you are a beginner. It does way to much for you, so in the event that you have to code without it, you are lost.
I don't have a degree, and I've been a manager before. I prefer actual engineering positions though.
The N%/N% engineering/management roles are a joke though. It's almost impossible to do either correctly when you have to do both (in my experience)
cinder raptor
Really? then I should go for Visual Studio or something.when trying to do some Python programming?
keen lotus
Really? then I should go for Visual Studio when trying to do some Python programming?
@cinder raptor VSCode
cloud kestrel
Ideally, try different things (including idle and vim or emacs)
keen lotus
pycharm is needed when you some real software dev but for now visual studio must be it
cloud kestrel
Don't rely too much on tools.
You should also use the REPL interpepreter.
Great way to quickly test shit.
And practice the language.
sweet shore
I do real software dev, and I don't use pycharm
keen lotus
its just a matter of preferences @sweet shore
bascially its up to you
whatever you like !
try everything and then arrive at a conclusion !
cinder raptor
I see, ill try them all out then, thank you very much 👍
keen lotus
😄
sweet shore
Language servers make the ide battles more and more irrelevant now though. Even vim can have the same level of completion and whatnot as pycharm now. I just hate that pycharm tries to handle my environments for me. If I didn't actually know what was going on under the hood, I might not be bothered to learn it.
And then, I become a developer who has no idea how to make my code run outside my environment, which is ultimately the point lol.
To each their own ¯_(ツ)_/¯
terse sapphire
Really? then I should go for Visual Studio or something.when trying to do some Python programming?
@cinder raptor My friend is a Lead DevOps Engineer and has been teaching me things here and there - he said I should use VSC so I think that's a solid choice to go with. 😄
I've seen PyCharm pop up a lot though - what is so good about it?
distant crow
VSCode and PyCharm are both good options
usually it's the autocomplete/intellisense and environment integration, and debugging integration
terse sapphire
hmm interesting. Thank You
vapid jay
Hi guys, I'm confused about the meaning of 'software developer'. How come software devs earn more than web devs - aren't they both just fullstack engineers?
I'm learning Flask, React, AWS and soon docker. Is that on the road to becoming a software dev with Python?
distant crow
this is somewhat an ambiguous question because "software developer" is a very vague term
and no, neither "software developer" nor "web developer" necessarily mean they're "fullstack"
one way to look at it is:
software developer broadly describes someone who develops software. Within this, a subset of people develop software specifically relating to the web, and are web developers. But the term "web" is also a broad collection of technologies, a particular collection of technologies that a particular web application uses can be described as a "stack". Within the world of web developers, a subset of web developers have a set of skills that allows them to work on both web front-end and back-end parts of the stack, and are called full-stack web developers
but this is just one description, others may have variations on the idea. So your sentence "how come software devs earn more than web devs - aren't they both just fullstack engineers?" is incorrect. Some software devs are web devs; some web devs are full-stack.
vapid jay
Wow! Thanks so much @distant crow that's actually very well explained.
distant crow
as for earning, this depends on company, seniority, and tech used. Because "software developer" encompasses so many different jobs including "web developer" so naturally the range of salaries that software developers make is quite wide. some make more than web devs, some make less
Flask+React, if you study these well, puts you in a position where you can work a little on the frontend (with react) and a little on the backend (Flask plus other stuff). You could become full-stack with these
but individual job requirements vary. the thing to watch out for is that not every company uses this stack, you may find companies with a MERN stack and therefore no Python. You may find a company with a Laravel-React stack instead. You may find a Flask-Angular stack and no React
alternatively you may find a company is on Azure, or GCP rather than AWS. You may find a company with a jamstack and no specific AWS backend other than serverless
vapid jay
[Hiring - Paid job - 7 days maximum ]
Looking for some who can write me a python script
distant crow
You may also find companies not specifically looking for a full-stack. Plenty of companies have separate frontend and backend roles. Then you find yourself competing with people who have more experience than either of these than you do
If I had to give you any advice on this, it's to look into whether you definitely want to go full-stack, or whether you want to specialize on either frontend or backend to be more competitive in those. I don't know what the jobs world is like now for full-stack, i have a suspicion that you might be better off focusing on one or the other so that you're really good at either Python backend (and that means not just Flask but other backend stuff too) or React and frontend technologies
@vapid jay this channel is not for recruitment, see channel description at top of screen
vapid jay
I couldn't find a #hiring channel
¿?
distant crow
have you tried reading the rest of the channel description?
terse sapphire
I couldn't find a #hiring channel
¿?
@vapid jay Wow, you must have people jumping at this?
vapid jay
Thank you very much @distant crow, I really needed that! From the jobs that I've been looking at, most want a mix of frontend-backend, so I've been working on projects based on that (and technologies too - such as React). I'm only 17, so I have a good amount of time to practice. After my current project I'm going to definitely look into possibly specializing on a stack - I really appreciate your explanation!
viral ridge
would hewlett packard enterprise be a good base for career growth?
distant crow
sure, I would still suggest focusing on one though. Use others too, but most jobs want one good specialization; only occasionally do you find jobs that want both, and those tend to be at smaller companies
vapid jay
have you tried reading the rest of the channel description?
@distant crow
can we add #hiring and #for-hire. used by discord community members only
shadow moss
No
It becomes too big of liability to filter out scams and like
There is plenty of places to look for work
distant crow
you can discuss that sort of thing with admins in #community-meta not here
shadow moss
Generally yes, why?
possibly but good luck with that
H-1B is current shutdown
and few companies want Europeans on H-1B
strange barn
is anybody here?
ember lichen
Hello, I just graduated with a Bachelor's degree in mechatronics engineering and I am essentially a C student, not very exceptional. In my country mechatronics don't have a board exam yet so I believe that as a c student without boards I would struggle finding a job. We learned some programming (PLC, Arduino, and z80) but it's not enough. I would really love to improve my skills, so my question: Is python a good starting point, or should I start somewhere else? I'm considering python because I'm learning raspberry pi as well, but if it's ideal to start with a different language I'm okay with putting pi aside for a while.
Thanks you very much for taking the time answering this one!!!
unkempt tundra
Hello, I just graduated with a Bachelor's degree in mechatronics engineering and I am essentially a C student, not very exceptional. In my country mechatronics don't have a board exam yet so I believe that as a c student without boards I would struggle finding a job. We learned some programming (PLC, Arduino, and z80) but it's not enough. I would really love to improve my skills, so my question: Is python a good starting point, or should I start somewhere else? I'm considering python because I'm learning raspberry pi as well, but if it's ideal to start with a different language I'm okay with putting pi aside for a while.
Thanks you very much for taking the time answering this one!!!
@ember lichen Python is a great choice mainly because, its kinda a superlanguage, it can do A LOT of things, which means that most things that you would want to pursue would probably have a python framework to do that
inner wrenBOT
ember lichen
@unkempt tundra @blazing dew
Thank you very much!!!!! I will start studying asap.
blazing dew
austere epoch
Hello all, Im looking to share my roadmap I created with someone here. Im learning Python at home and want to confirm that the this plan is atleast sound, to getting an entry level job. (I understand jobs arent guaranteed in life)
gilded valley
you can share it - that's not against any rule afaik
austere epoch
Id prefer to DM cause Im a weirdo. sorry ha
austere epoch
Thats fair
My SO is asking me for a gameplan on how I can get my foot in the door for programming. Ive created a list of tools, books and technogies that I want to learn which I think will be important to know. So, with learning at home, and filling up a Github account with strong projects and networking with people, is this an acceptable path to an entry level job?
shadow moss
maybe
it's impossible to know what will impress a recruiter and it's very dependent on where you live and what job market will look like
austere epoch
Right
shell hound
Hello, I am very new to python, I just started learning last week. For my class we are learning python for the first 7 weeks and then app development for iOS the rest of the semester. What could I use with these skills? I plan on learning java next semester and more app development. Thanks
bronze pond
yoooo i got first place with a hackathon project and now the sponsor wants to fund my project idk where to go from here
its hard to process that im actually starting to do this kind of stuff
hopefully i get an internship :3
mortal wedge
Even when you're going for a job (at least your first) that's a great resume add
distant crow
Is python a good starting point, or should I start somewhere else?
@ember lichen
This is an interesting question for mechatronics. I think it depends where you want to go with it. Python is absolutely a great language for high-level control of robotics. But it's not a great language for low-level control and fast control loops. I would say though, if you gain knowledge of C/C++ focusing on embedded systems and Python, focusing on robotics stacks and intra-process communications, then you'd be in a good position.
Raspberry Pi itself isn't really something you "learn". It's a small SoC/SBC. Telling someone "I learned raspberry pi" doesn't mean anything. Now, if you were to say "I built a robot that used rpi running a ROS node. Or "I reinstalled an RTOS on rpi instead of linux". Or "I tuned the linux kernel to enable Preempt-RT and other optimizations to make rpi more responsive for real-time control applications" then those would make sense
if you want to go mechatronics with python, learn ROSpy. get to know python's binary data handling ability, including bytes types, struct and even numpy (being able to handle and process fixed-type int arrays and stuff like that). Understand how to build state machines, both high level (like the transitions library) and low-level for stuff like binary protocol decoding. Get to grips with communications architectures, like service-client, pub-sub, rpc, with stuff like zmq and redis
on the C side of things, learn embedded C, learn about cross-compiling, make sure you know how to use stuff like gnu-none-eabi and related for stuff like ARM microcontrollers, and other vendor-specific compilers. Understand how memory allocation and organization works - how stacks and heaps works, and what a stack crash looks like (mostly a unique problem in microcontrollers). Learn about what an FPU is and why you'd want one, and what you'd do to your code when you don't have one.
Learn about basic control theory stuff - observability and controllability; maybe even bode and nyquist plots; PID control and the various issues in real systems - integral windup, non-linear response, etc. and how to implement them in C; learn about digital filtering - simple averaging filters, sliding window (and by extension, circular buffers), recursive filters (SPR filters), Kalman filters
viral ridge
(3yrs later)
distant crow
An finally to tie both together, learn about how microcontrollers and low-level embedded systems can talk to your high-level control, and python: pyserial; pyusb; pyhidapi; and network stacks
mechatronics is cool
wish I had the opportunity to do it
vast mica
hi i joined in new confused where i should post this is query because the get help is kind of multi ,
plz i apologise in advance if im not suppose to ask this here just point me to the place
is code academy pro career path any good for someone who is just starting to learn coding so i can land a data science path, using the career path given on code academy ?
jolly furnace
ya know i feel thats really debatable between learning byurself, bootcamp and degree
distant crow
I think learning by yourself is one of the most important skills to have
jolly furnace
ive heard ppl say all sorts of things about each
distant crow
if you take a bootcamp or do a degree, don't expect those to magic the knowledge into your brain, you're still going to need to do a fair bit of self-driven learning
white karma
Learning by yourself without really knowing how to is difficult
shadow moss
degree is generally the best way for your career prospects
white karma
Like the information is there, and you can access it, mostly free of charge, but you need to make an effort to learn and retain what you’ve learned as opposed to being taught by someone
shadow moss
I'd say bootcamp > self learning just because something to show but neither is ideal way to break into industry but it is doable
jolly furnace
tbh when ur taught by someone u still gotta look at the details urself
jolly furnace
i think stuff online has the same preplanned structure
u just have to do the activities urself
shadow moss
but the point is with entry level, at this point, the demand for entry level jobs outstrips supply so you need a way to weed out people, degree is good way to do it, bootcamp certificate is a way to do it
what every recruiter feels like when they open entry level developer job
vast mica
thank you all for such a wonderfully organised discussion based reply! Glad i made the post!
gilded valley
I learned today that the strategy is apparently to read through 36% of CVs, take the best, then find the first CV that is better than that one
jolly furnace
that just makes it sound like its plain luck
if ur not in the 36% ur kinda out of luck
shadow moss
yep
vast mica
i already work so its been difficult for me to know what to self learn and keep track of things i parted ways with coding during school days now its been 6 years I'm getting back into it and looking for a career change
jolly furnace
wdym
gilded valley
You fund the first of the 64% that is better than the best of the 36%
jolly furnace
so u take the top 64?
gilded valley
no
shadow moss
take 36%, read them
then look at 64% stack and go through them, the first resume you find that is better then 36%, BAM, call them for interview
gilded valley
you split the CVs into two piles. You find the best CV in the smaller pile. THen you look through the big pile til you find one that is better than the CV you've already chosen (and that's your candidate)
shadow moss
send the rest to shredder
jolly furnace
oh
true harness
that sounds awfully more luck based than it should be
jolly furnace
yeah that
gilded valley
I'd much rather humans going through it than some shitty automated thing
jolly furnace
suxs if urs is at the bottom of the pile
gilded valley
I'd rather take luck than appease a machine
shadow moss
HOw do I tell public static void main is better then superuser based on fact both have done some bootcamps and that's it
yea, they both have githubs but no one got time to review that
true harness
i haven't done any bootcamps :(
shadow moss
whatever, githubs
jolly furnace
neither have i lol
gilded valley
also - I think the number I saw on reddit is 37%, and the 36% earlier was just a typo that I was too lazy to fix
not that it matters in the slightest
vestal pelican
I learned today that the strategy is apparently to read through 36% of CVs, take the best, then find the first CV that is better than that one
Ah, the secretary problem? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem
shadow moss
recruiters deal with it different ways
white karma
Reminds me of the guy who takes half a stack of resumes and just tosses them in the trash
ember lichen
if you want to go mechatronics with python, learn ROSpy. get to know python's binary data handling ability, including
bytestypes,structand evennumpy(being able to handle and process fixed-type int arrays and stuff like that). Understand how to build state machines, both high level (like thetransitionslibrary) and low-level for stuff like binary protocol decoding. Get to grips with communications architectures, like service-client, pub-sub, rpc, with stuff like zmq and redis
@distant crow
Hey bro!!!! Thank you very very much for taking the time answering my question, I really loved reading your answer to be honest though I had to look up some of the terms you said. As I said we learned some programming but it's not enough, what our instructor basically did was give us a problem and learn the programming ourselves, and I didn't know what I don't know. Our curriculum focused more on physics and design, not much in programming. Thanks again!!! At least I know now what I need to learn!!!! Best of wishes to you bud.
vestal pelican
Check 1/e candidates, then pick the first one that's better than all the previous ones?
gilded valley
@vestal pelican I only learned about it today - but that's probably it yeah
jolly furnace
well ur technically not tossing out half
vestal pelican
But it's only the best strategy under some pretty unrealistic assumptions
mainly, not being able to go back to someone
vestal pelican
There is a single position to fill. There are n applicants for the position, and the value of n is known. The applicants, if seen altogether, can be ranked from best to worst unambiguously.** The applicants are interviewed sequentially in random order, with each order being equally likely.**
** Immediately after an interview, the interviewed applicant is either accepted or rejected, and the decision is irrevocable.**
** The decision to accept or reject an applicant can be based only on the relative ranks of the applicants interviewed so far.**
The objective of the general solution is to have the highest probability of selecting the best applicant of the whole group. This is the same as maximizing the expected payoff, with payoff defined to be one for the best applicant and zero otherwise.
shadow moss
but even after that, there is still 1000 resumes to shift through
I'm saying our recruiters are still overwhelmed by entry level positions even after bots take care of some them
gilded valley
@vestal pelican forcing yourself not to go back to someone probably saves you time
but Rabbit's point is another important one
places receives thousands of applications
But the point is that it's not feasible for recruiters to parse every single entry. So they need to cut some in an automated way, IMO it's better if that automation is pure luck than some very shitty algorithm
Taking 50 CVs randomly from the pile, and reading them closely would probably achieve better results than some current systems
shadow moss
med school has some filtering already in place
gilded valley
no, with med school you have a hard and fast number to filter with
there's the entry exam for it in the US
gilded valley
mcat isn't pass/fail
gilded valley
they also have much muddier criteria
grades don't matter all that much there, soft skills are very important, as are technical skills that grades don't reflect
whereas with medicine - you just want people who are highly competent at learning
distant crow
unfortunately highly competent at rote learning
something we hope maybe we can automate. with python.
vapid jay
starting new job as software engineer. role is to work on projects company has. Is my first job, so any adivce?
Thx
marsh wind
Don't be afraid to ask questions
But also make sure not ask things that take 5 min to Google @vapid jay
Other than that, watch, learn, try to write clean code
distant crow
proactive communications. it's probably the most important thing you can do
if you're stuck, let someone know. If your manager(s) are any good at their job, it's their job to unstick you. If you don't know how to do something and have made reasonable attempts to figure it out yourself, ask someone! Sometimes it takes someone minutes to tell you something or point you in the right direction, which might have taken hours for you to figure out yourself (or even worse, days of going down the wrong path)
If you run out of stuff to do, tell someone (again within reason, don't encourage being overworked)
if someone gave you a task, and there's not enough information to do it, or you feel there's a decision to be made that you can't or shouldn't make. tell someone. It is ok and reasonable to hold other people accountable for doing their jobs, even if you are a junior
the best employee I had was someone who wasn't afraid to tell me that he needed me to make certain decisions or provide certain information. And where information is unclear, or where he felt he was getting conflicting information or priorities, he wasn't afraid to say "if management doesn't know what I'm supposed to be working on, how should I? You guys need to figure out what the priorities are" and he's right. he called us out on it, and made all of us a better company as a whole
if your company has a support structure that is more than "my manager is the only person I get to talk to and express concerns", then you should go to whomever you can chat to about these things and ask "is there something that I can do better, or do you think I'm not getting the support that I need from my line manager?"
and also ask your line manager for feedback too "what can I do better?" is a valid question to ask, and the answer isn't always "work harder, put more hours into it" (which is sometimes the sign of a bad manager, if that's the only thing they can tell you)
I'd group all of this under "proactive communication"
and I wish more people would do these things
would not only make our team more effective, it also means I don't have to worry that someone's stuck who isn't telling me
vapid jay
Thanks, i will keep this in mind
worn mirage
Looking for a mentor who has experience architecturing python backend with asyncio, websockets, etc.
jovial kindle
guys does anyone use pythonista 3 ? if you are using it can you dm me ??
vapid jay
what is wrong with this
shadow moss
wrong channel
gilded valley
@vapid jay read #❓｜how-to-get-help
cinder raptor
With reading all of this in doing Python Programming and such, will most job prospects really be eroded in the future by AI and outsourcing to other countries that can do the job much cheaper? I remembered reading different articles about these and want to know others thoughts on this.
shadow moss
NoCode will probably win before AI. As for outsource, it's there and it can be a problem. But it's like worrying about thermonuclear warfare, there isn't much you can do about it.
distant crow
Looking for a mentor who has experience architecturing python backend with asyncio, websockets, etc.
@worn mirage I used to use Tornado for this, it can do asyncio and websockets; but these days, FastAPI might be an interesting choice
gilded valley
As for outsource, it's there and it can be a problem. But it's like worrying about thermonuclear warfare, there isn't much you can do about it.
Well, you could try and aim for an unoutsourcable career. Carpentry for example is unlikely to go out of fashion
shadow moss
at someone who knows people in trades, not 100% of the case in America
and anyways, was sticking with tech since you know, on topic
gilded valley
hmmm - i'm skeptical, but yeah this is definitely not ontopic
dry sapphire
is the GRE important for a CS graduate degree in America?
vapid jay
What type of project would i post on my github which to show company what i'm capable of as being a computer science student?
distant crow
a decent sized project that shows you working on it over time, and not just something you dump in a few weeks before making applications to pretend you enjoy doing projects to learn and because you're curious
make sure you work on it regularly, write a nice looking readme
personally if I'm going to look at a github project at all, I want to see someone's passion project. something they're doing because it interests them, or they want to learn to do something "just because"
what I don't want to see is 3 or 4 projects that have less than 10 commits that someone's just dumped into their github account a few weeks ago because they heard somewhere that it would be good for their application
put a project in there that you're genuinely interested in doing
having said that, I don't spend a lot of time looking at github accounts, it's only to corroborate some info from other parts of the application. If I'm lucky the spread of languages and frameworks matches up what's claimed in a resume. Or if I'm lucky, they make a mistake and I catch them with recently-worked on beginner tutorials in Python when they've claimed to have years of experience (happened once)
vapid jay
@vapid jay
mint citrus
yikes on that last one meseta
shadow moss
@dry sapphire it's something you should take
dry sapphire
@dry sapphire it's something you should take
@shadow moss does your score in general play a big part in getting admission?
shadow moss
depends on the school and admission department and various other factors
some schools might care a ton, some schools won't care unless you bomb it
standardize testing is generally less of a factor for many graduate program these days due to accusations of various biases
dry sapphire
okay, since I'm not from the US
shadow moss
that being said, I wouldn't recommend going to US Master program for CS just due to cost
dry sapphire
so different grading scale + undergraduate research isn't so much a thing here + we don't do theses, either
shadow moss
What country?
dry sapphire
Singapore
wait, go back
so in the US you do a thesis in university regardless of faculty?
shadow moss
some do, some don't
shadow moss
most of my masters of Computer science TAs I worked with came out of school I was in
so they went to University A -> Graduate School A
dry sapphire
like most of what I have is industry experience, which I have seen some admissions pages describe as "not indicative of ability to succeed in an academic context"
and the only thing I can think of is on that front is GRE score
shadow moss
Did you get whatever equivalent of Bachelor of Science is in Singapore
dry sapphire
no, I have a Law degree
shadow moss
Yea......
dry sapphire
so, yeah
shadow moss
you are going to have really uphill battle
Why do you want to get a masters in United States? Why not return to school and get your BS equivalent in Computer Science?
dry sapphire
which is why I asked about the persuasive weight of GRE
AI research ambitions, mostly
shadow moss
it helps but won't be sole source
dry sapphire
I don't really think bachelor-level CS has much to offer me @ this point
AI research ambitions, mostly
@dry sapphire + academic community
shadow moss
proof that you are not going to hit a typed language and fall apart
dry sapphire
I can do C++ and Scala (have written production code)
shadow moss
at the level they need?
dry sapphire
probably not C++
shadow moss
dirty truth Academic code != production code
dry sapphire
would depend on what that level is
but in any case...I think being able to get to the point of an interview would be the difficult part
jolly moat
If you had $5.2K in tuition reimbursement from your employer for accredited coursework, what course/degree/boot camp would you use it for?
shadow moss
sure, esp as foreign student
because there are swarms of foreign students that apply to US universities yearly
Williams, AS -> BS
dry sapphire
because there are swarms of foreign students that apply to US universities yearly
@shadow moss I would imagine
I suppose GRE score is the best thing I can do
shadow moss
gm, never know, might find a program focusing on law work
like something something, IP Law or similar
dry sapphire
not really interested in that TBH (I don't want anything to do with law any more)
oh well.
I'll figure it out somehow
thanks a lot for your help and advice @shadow moss
jolly moat
I have a bachelors in economics. I was thinking of going for a masters in data science, but I found the micro masters thru edX and wanted to see what else was out there
shadow moss
Associates Degree
karmic merlin
@shy lynx This is not recruitment server.
violet thistle
hey everyone, I am a high school student who wants to get into a cs field once I have finished school. I have done small projects in python but I don't know a lot of the basics. any ideas where I can start?
mint citrus
not in #career-advice thats for sure
radiant phoenix
Hello
timber axle
Hey.
lapis tendon
hmm tbh documentation is confusing af for beginner
i had no idea when i first started
cousera is great tho
silk kettle
radiant phoenix
Documentation will take beginners nowhere.Just watch some tutorials there are tons of that.
lucid niche
Anybody here gone down the route of B.S. in mechanical engineering (or related) with a minor in maths, to M.S. and Ph.D. in applied maths or computational maths? I'd like to hear about your experiences.
cedar trout
guys, I think about going a bit into data science
I know some python, now I am going to learn one of the following:
- databases
- machine learning
which one do you think is more important for junior data science job? (I know that data science is a wide category, I'm not sure which exact field I am interested in)
fervent hamlet
solid statistics grasp is most important imho
vestal pelican
I think when people task about data science, they don't mean ML by default
if they meant ML, they would say ML 😛
steep geyser
I am looking for the most efficient path to get an entry level job. I am ranked kyu 6 on codewars for python to give an idea of my knowledge. Should I consider starting Flask or Django?
pale grove
Hii
twin sparrow
@cedar trout machine learning would not be expected (usually) for an entry / junior tier job roles
woeful spruce
am I screwed if I haven't done any Machine Learning training in the next few years
soooooo much to learn
plain cobalt
(Read through the rules and I think this is alright to post here. I'll delete if its not sorry)
Hi guys, looking for suggestions here. I really want to be a programmer and or coder. I'm studying as much as I can when I am home. I currently work full time as a repair agent with geek squad and I'm not sure how to progress.
I've been doing as much research as I can over the last few months and here is about all I know:
- Build a portfolio
- get a github account
- Contribute the projects
Of course, I'm still learning coding and focusing at the moment in python. The first book that was suggested to me was "Automate the Boring stuff" which I've gotten to about page 200 right now in the progress of also working on a discord bot with discord.py. I'm pretty interested in AI learning and pretty open to a lot of areas of code. I'd like to have a good understand of Both Python and C. I'd like to get "understanding" of C to the point where I can write in it. Tho for now I'm just trying to get to the point where I can work on project in python.
If you guys have book, project suggestions, jobs I should be looking for to apply for and or work towards appreciate any of that.
plain cobalt
Thanks a ton for such a long response! I do like that going the direction with the discord bot could be helpful. I really hope to tackle AI one day as well. I tend to spend half or more of my days off on this.
It's reassuring to know people still look up the simpler stuff even after doing this for a while. My memory isn't the best so I'm always scared It will hinder me greatly with me going this path. I'll just have to make sure to make a lot of bookmarks.
Do you have any resources you might recommend for a beginner? Right now I am currently studying from these videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQw8cFfZPx0
Learning about Cogs in discord.py
I feel like I am getting some good concepts out of this and learning but I don't have any idea when I'll have learned enough to become either a freelancer or find a job doing the work I'm passionate about. Being a Geek Squad Repair Agent is nice with good management but I have no idea how long that will last and my passion for computer hardware is with the newest technology always. I just love that stuff, most my time is spent working on old laptops thats been passed down for generations just removing malware or doing software tune ups with windows updates that take oh idk 12-36 hours.... and I really don't want to spent the next 10-15 years of my life doing tier 2 IT work.
I love the problem solving of coding and making my mind work, I don't care about the one line of code that breaks my program I like figuring it out. I just want to keep progressing and not being a college student or having a direct path towards doing something I really enjoy is a little disheartening but I'm thankful at least at home I can spend a lot of my time on it.
@spice musk Thanks again for the response! Does mean a lot.
blazing dew
@plain cobalt Good work learning on your own, but I have one thing that I need you to avoid to reduce pain. Don't follow discord.py YouTube videos. They are usually outdated and just straight up not good. We have a #discord-bots channel if you have any questions, and the docs also give you some examples on how to setup stuff.
I'd very much recommend following the documentation https://discordpy.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
plain cobalt
@blazing dew I've read through some of the documentation but I'll continue to read for more. Thanks for the advice on that!
@spice musk I'll look through the videos you linked, excited to have some more resources to go through. I've had similar advice with the IT degree's which is one of the reasons why I stopped pursuing it. That and doing something so uninteresting for the first 2 years was just killer on my mental state.
Def gonna check out both the documentation and Corey's YT channel. Thanks again both of ya for the resources and information.
elfin abyss
This isn't a server to hire people
blazing dew
@shy lynx We do not allow recruitement on this server.
frosty laurel
This AI Could Bring Us Computers That Can Write Their Own Software https://singularityhub.com/2020/08/02/this-ai-could-bring-us-computers-that-can-write-software/
Is this possible? If yes then all software engineers are going to loose their jobs
craggy elm
right in the snippet
A new machine learning program called MISIM can figure out what a snippet of code is meant to do and offer up new code to make it faster or more efficient.
so your assertion is just wrong lol
lethal tulip
I am quite familiar with python. But now I want to focus on the Data Structure and Algorithm with python. So anyone who can suggest me the path.
true harness
clrs
vapid jay
do any coders here for work, working extra time to get project done without being asked?
every single one?
no cant be
rugged star
I don't supoose anyone would be willing to go over my CV quickly? I'm a soon to be graduate in the UK if that makes a difference
One thing I realise i should do is move the skills section to the first page, maybe in some sort of side table, but other than that im all ears
spice musk
@rugged star
-
Personally I would lose the personal profile. No one has time to read it, and so will be skipped. Use that space for something better. If you think its necessary then put it in a covering letter.
-
I would put sections in the order: Education, Skills, Experience, Projects.
-
Too much info inside education. They dont need to know why you joined uni, and they know what the degree teaches and what modules they do, so dont need to tell them. So just list the relevant modules, keep your thesis and maybe discuss any other achievements you have from university.
You can remove the references part as well. Most dont ask, and if they do want them they will directly ask you at the time.
You should ideally keep your CV to a single page, unless you are an academic or have many many years of experience (this is also common from the top schools where they keep it to a single page). Employers have 100s or even thousands of applications per job. They dont have time to read 2 pages. They have maybe around 10 seconds so make your self stand out in those 10 secs. If you look at all these example MIT CVs, they are a single page: https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/jobs/files/sample-resumes.pdf and from Harvard too, https://ocs.fas.harvard.edu/files/ocs/files/seas_senior_year20-21.pdf?m=1598219781
rugged star
@spice musk Thank you for the detailed response! That means a lot. Could I ask your level of experience?
My education section was actually much shorter previously before I had some other feedback to extend it
Can I also ask if you're UK based?
I'm not trying to disregard your advice at all, just want to ensure it's focused on the same market because I realise CVs vary quite drastically based on location
spice musk
EU based, although I have studied in a UK uni, but the same advice still applies. If you were to look at the formats from top UK schools it would be the same.
You need to tell the recruiter what they don't already know. They have screened thousands of CVs, they know exactly what modules a course has, and what those modules teach. And they also know how well different universities teach this stuff as well, so its not the info they are after. @rugged star
rugged star
@spice musk Thank you! I'm just trying to aggregate all the different advice ive been given
I usually do opt for a 1 pager, but then i spoke to a recruiter who mentioned expanding to 2 pages
Ofc everyone's going to have their opinions so figured getting a broader range of opinions would be beneficial
spice musk
Well here is a good reddit post with some good info, https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/7y8k6p/im_an_exrecruiter_for_some_of_the_top_companies/
shadow moss
Personal interests on resume is bit of no no
spice musk
Actually this one is much more detailed, https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/8hs6xc/part_deux_of_the_top_post_of_all_time_on_rjobs_im/
shadow moss
You may reveal information that can be used to discriminate
spice musk
Well i guess it depends on the job, sometimes its good to share personal interests, obviously something that wont be used against you
chilly slate
Speaking of resumes I was told that it’s a good idea to put “referee available upon request” rather than providing actual contact details for referees. Apparently it’s good because you can then track down where your recruiters are with the hiring process. Sounds good at the start but then I always feel they just won’t be bothered asking...
spice musk
Sometimes helps the conversation
shadow moss
Also, I recommend skills at top when doing tech because if you are Java person and I’m looking for C#. I care more about that.
Lufthansa, that’s for interview.
Not resume
As always, this is American look of process. Your local country norms may vary. Like pictures
spice musk
Personally on resume i dont think it harms to have it. Ive seen many people put things like security/privacy/building pcs all has hobbies/interests. Shows more about the character of an individual
shadow moss
We don’t like privacy nuts. Shred resume
spice musk
Well as I said it depends on the job, on what you include for it or not. And its unlikely recruiters even disregard, like that.
shadow moss
Resume should be enough to get interest but not enough to have any negative reactions.
spice musk
That's a bit like, we don't like his name, or his ethnic background shred resume.
If a recruiter disagrees with ones personal interests, I would see that as a good thing. Shows what kind of company it is like.
Because i would not want to work at such a place.
shadow moss
Just like if Lufthansa was making brochure, it wouldn’t put “Boeing Fleet” because you don’t want someone to think of Max and go, wait a minute.
Just talk about how awesome seats are and all destinations
Because fleet like your personal interests don’t really matter
also, other reason not to put personal interests on resume is level the playing field for everyone who might leave out their personal interests because it reveals possible discriminatory information about them
if their personal interests are bible study and raising their kids, well now you know they are religious, possibly married with kids
so by leaving it off for everyone, those who don't want to reveal discriminatory information don't have to worry that lack of personal interests indicates something
spice musk
Thats why you tailor it to a job. Anyways, privacy was just an example. Most people know enough to not put stuff like bible study on, or how often they visit the church. Most people would put other stuff like playing sport or something, driving country side, paintballing, camping, mountain climbing or whatever people like doing. It helps humanise the person, and makes them less boring too.
shadow moss
so if their personal life is mostly church and raising their 4 kids, they should just lie?
or throw some stuff on there and hope other person doesn't have a clue when it's revealed they have passing knowledge
spice musk
Well if you feel your interests dont belong there, then dont put it on at all. No one is forcing to put interests there.
If you feel you will be discriminated then leave it out.
If a company does discriminate you on it, then its a hint that that company doesn't care about its people, and you should find another company.
I did an internship abroad as a student, and one of the reasons I got the job was because the person interviewing me saw I put camping with a club as my interests. Apparently they was looking for people who wont get homesick, and are comfortable living away from home.
rugged star
So i changed my CV to a one pager
In terms of content would you say this looks better?
rugged star
oh christ how did i miss that
spice musk
You can put Skills under Education. The project and thesis paragraph could be split up into sentences to make it easier to read. You could add more detail to your undergrad course, as well as to the role in your work experience. That should be enough to fill the whitespace at the bottom.
And if you have a portfolio of your projects like on Github or something then you may want to add a link.
fervent hamlet
I wouls also try to avoid using "I did x" language
mortal wedge
Skills go at the top, work experience goes second
The in 2019 etc etc etc goes in a cover letter, not in a resume
"Modules included: Software Workshop, Introduction to Computer Science, Databases, Human Computer
Interaction, Software Engineering, Data Structures and Algorithms, Artificial Intelligence." They don't need to know you took intro to computer science. Everyone has. Remove that whole section, maybe put some of that under skills if you feel comfortable with those topics
mortal wedge
In this case work experience can probably be removed
Or shuffled to the bottom, since the graduate work is more recent
If you have strong graduate experience it can go towards the top I suppose, but skills should always be top because it's what recruiters will scan to see if you're a fit for the position and it's what resume parsers will weight in terms of matching you as a fit to a position
rugged star
Top as in after education or literally right after my personal info? @mortal wedge
mortal wedge
Right after your personal info
ATS (applicant tracking system) use a keyword search/weighting system to check how good of a match you are for a position. Putting your skills section at the top gives you the best chance at getting through to an actual person
rugged star
Okedoke I'm implementing a bunch of changes right now from different sources, I'll post a little update in a sec
mortal wedge
👍
rugged star
But thank you for your help, it really does mean a lot
mortal wedge
Of course. It's a challenge and it's not something you're really ever taught.
jolly furnace
as someone who kinda ghosted through all ur versions of ur resume ur 4th version looks much better than the 1st version
rugged star
@jolly furnace haha thank you, I appreciate that
jolly furnace
ive looked through some of my old resumes and on hindsight they looked kinda cringe
resumes usually get better as you go along
rugged star
Here's hoping 🤞🏻
rocky geyser
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JtmYl92ejH0DF-V-M-0mA-wJWKRzf5Nx/view?usp=sharing
@rugged star don't bother putting your grade, no one cares
rugged star
I've heard the polar opposite for the UK market
rocky geyser
i'm in the UK market
maybe if you're applying for a grad scheme which needs filtered by HR
rugged star
I'm just saying ive heard very much contradicting advice from other recruiters, as it just looks suspicious
rocky geyser
no direct technical hirer cares about what undergrad grade you got
rugged star
I agree that it's definitely not important what grade i got in biology
but ive heard that its still a good idea to say the grade
rocky geyser
i wouldnt make your undergrad even a prominent part of the CV
i'd probably drop it, or reduce it to one line which is more "BSc Biological Sciences: thesis and project work included stats/analysis/etc"
rugged star
Definitely sounds like an idea to make it one line for sure
rocky geyser
work experience should be top of the list -- and your first pg should be a summary, but your CV shouldnt be 1 or 2 pages
i mean maybe in this case, i dont know
but generally technical hirerers do want to read much more
first page should be optimized for brainless HR: keywords (as many as you can fit), single-line summaries, your current role title, and CVshoud be headed bywhat kind of role yourelooking for
the rest should have a paragraph of prose for every item, along with two orthree bullets
rugged star
Thanks for all the info! I'll probably implement it all tomorrow now bc ive been grinding this out for a while haha
rocky geyser
you shouldnt "optimize" your CV by the bullshit HR/recruiters want... taht should be your first pge. you need several more to expand on your skills, projects, accomplishments, tc.
sure, no problem
rugged star
And please dont take this the wrong way, but what level are you at in your career if u dont mind me asking?
I'm just curious
rocky geyser
i'm the head of data, analytics & AI at a multibillion dollar company
rugged star
It's just tough to write a CV when 50% of the people i have review it want zero subjectivity and then some people think that a little personality and extra info is helpful haha
Hard to know which way is the 'right' way
rocky geyser
it depends what you're submitting to
jolly furnace
i just feel there is no magic formula
rocky geyser
this is why the first page shouldbe a tight summary
but in my view, you want much more for someone who is actully going to read it and care about it
people who want terseness arentdoing the hiring, they are filter
they just want it to be easier to see you are relevant or not to the spec (tht they know nothing about, in detail)
by the time a technical hirer who knows about hte role is reading your cv, terseness is not to your advantage
rugged star
True, ive just been getting a lot of rejections lately so i thought id switch it up
fervent hamlet
I dont think multiple pages is wise for a cv
rugged star
but could just be the market atm
fervent hamlet
Especially if youre padding
rocky geyser
mine is like 10
don't write pages, a paragraph for each important topic
if i had what ive read on yours, i'd aim for maybe -- at least-- an extra pge, and reduce the first
first page very keyword, topic, skill, buzzword drivn: think i want to pass the filter
fervent hamlet
imo a resume shouldnt include everything you've done, so why would it be pages long
You can easily fit relevant details in there without bloating the whole thing up
Who's gonna read a 10 page resume
rocky geyser
remaindershould actually explain what you have done, why, and what you're capableof
i wouldnt suggest 10 pages for a jnr role
jolly furnace
i think there is a difference between resume and cv
fervent hamlet
Some people treat them differently
rocky geyser
if i had somone handme a 2-pg CV for >100k, i'd not be very happy -- but its never happend
shadow moss
all advice people will give you is very flavored where someone is located
fervent hamlet
They treat cv as a document listing everything you've done and resume a more concise document relevant to what theyre applying to
rocky geyser
yes,my view is to include both
shadow moss
like pictures on resume, in US, NOOOOOOO, other places, always
rocky geyser
first page should be a one-page summary, remainder is depth
fervent hamlet
Never heard of pictures in resumes
shadow moss
apparently common in Germany so I've been told
jolly furnace
doesnt that basically say pls be racist
if u put ur picture
like they r gonna look at ur skin color and factor that in
fervent hamlet
Japan is more homogeneous than germany tho, anyway dont put pictures in resumes lol
shadow moss
I'm not saying too
but location can matter for good advice
Like US doesn't do CV, CV = Resume unless you are talking about academia
fervent hamlet
Im european this is confusing, we use CV
gilded valley
In some European countries, you're expected to have a photo in a CV/Resume
(Switzerland is one such example, but there are more I think)
rocky geyser
I put the first part of my postcode
i guess a zip is less specific
that said i usually live in very central places, so that's more because the locality is an advtage
and id say this applies less in US
shadow moss
in US people want address for relocation reasons
fervent hamlet
Im a graduate and willing to relocate anywhere so i dont want people to think of the current address im staying at
shadow moss
Sure, but what country you are in?
fervent hamlet
UK
shadow moss
Yea, when you are size of larger US state, it's different
gilded valley
Companies in the UK really don't care
but as Rabbit says, the UK is tiny
and there's no fuckery with 50 different sets of laws
rugged star
@rugged star did you say you'd had difficulties gettinghired?
@rocky geyser yup, im applying for graduate software engineer roles
jolly furnace
cuz having 50 different sets of laws is what it means to be free
rugged star
would prefer fullstack but im not fussy at this point
I've made it to one final round, and im going into another grad day next week
But mostly im getting my CV rejected straight away
Quite a few jobs use C# which i have no experience in, but id imagine a good company would recognise that someone pretty familiar with Java could make the switch decently fast
shadow moss
Java is language we will hire jr devs for our C# shop
rugged star
Yee i didnt think that would be the reason for the rejection but im just not sure why its been so hard haha
Other than more grads applying for the roles atm because of covid
And i suppose having a conversion masters im at a disadvantage already not having done a 3 year Bsc
gilded valley
And i suppose having a conversion masters im at a disadvantage already not having done a 3 year Bsc
I really don't think that hurts you. Plenty of companies might even prefer it
I know at least one megacorp that prefers it
rugged star
I'd like to think then it is just the market making things harder atm, but perhaps there is something really off about my CV haha
although i think it looks much nicer now
so hopefully thatll make a difference
I just want this so badly
Like if I get this first job I know I'll do everything I can to be a good jr dev, ask questions, do independent research, put in extra hours out of the office if needs be
gilded valley
Low reply rates have always been standard. Covid will only exacerbate that as there are fewer positions
gilded valley
Nah that's fair
jolly furnace
you know i used to think of the same thing about putting extra hrs with my part time job
but then like 2 months pass and im just like im just doing what is needed to be done
not doing anything more
rugged star
haha thats fair enough
I just know i really want to have my own thing one day, be that freelancing or a SaaS company
so i wanna grind my ass off and just learn a lot in the first few years
im not saying that guarantees success by any means
but i wanna try it yknow
It's just the first time in my life where there's been a career ahead of me that im actually pretty interested in, and enjoy (or atleast enjoy the prospect of)
jolly furnace
i just feel sometimes u get burnt out from work
rugged star
Yeah tbf im definitely looking at it through rose tinted glasses
I just want to be done with education
rocky geyser
@rugged star read the role profiles of the jobs youre looking at, pull out common tech, spend 3-5days/item making a github miniproject using it
tht's essentially what i did for most contracts i worked on; perhaps easier for me because by the time i started working, i'd had c. 10 yrs (from 12) programming
marsh wind
apparently common in Germany so I've been told
@shadow moss @fervent hamlet France too
I guess pretty much the most part of EU, at least west /south
Don't know about North
sour sluice
vapid jay
use geeksforgeeks
viral ridge
"so this job requires quite some knowledge of algorithms and complexity." me: "sure thing, I had advanced classes on that, no probs, complexity and shit, my thing". him:"ok, moving on"
lol
gleaming cedar
Is python easy for mechanical engineers?
rocky geyser
crimson iris
i need help i learned all basics of python what should i do now? (django, flask, data science, data analysis, and other things please recommand me i need some advice)
white karma
Well what do you want to do with what you’ve learned?
upbeat elm
^^
python is either data science, backend or general scripting from what I encountered
you want to specialize in either of those things depending on your priorities
magic grotto
Does anyone here use a mentor or coach? I'm a tech mentor and lifecoach and I teach a lot of developers, so I'm wondering how common this is
blazing dew
@shy lynx You agreed that you read our #rules when joining the server. No recruitement is allowed. How about you read them again?
royal lichen
So Developers how to start working after learning some python? x)
viral ridge
@rocky geyser well, i did actually have them:) but decent course that link
swift veldt
Doing a project helps, @royal lichen
slate cave
Anyone know if colleges really look into your extracurriculars with programming. I've started a business at age 14 with programming in python that has grown fairly large and I'm hoping it might account for a lower GPA (I have 3.9 weighted but will probably hit 4.0 after this semester)
mortal wedge
You're fine
Most companies if you have over 3.0 they're pleased as punch, it's just a way to weed out the barely passing
But yes, starting a business at 14 will give you plenty of weight with recruiters/companies
terse sapphire
Does anyone here use a mentor or coach? I'm a tech mentor and lifecoach and I teach a lot of developers, so I'm wondering how common this is
@magic grotto Not majorly common I don't think. What sort of thing do you do as a Tech Mentor?
gleaming cedar
@vapid jay will you pls suggest me some good course where I can learn from scratch?
mortal wedge
@gleaming cedar Not OP, but if you're looking to learn python from scratch, there are some good resources here
!resources
inner wrenBOT
ripe helm
hello
white karma
Hi
shadow moss
Recruiting isn't allowed
white karma
^ Also not really interested at the moment, sorry.
short glacier
!resources
inner wrenBOT
jolly furnace
im applying to a us company but to the office in my country. should i stick to the us resume standard of one page or should i stick to the standard of my country (1-2 pg)
white karma
If it’s a US based company I would say the 1 page
shadow moss
depends on how big the division in your country is
if it's large enough, they probably have local recruiters
jolly furnace
im guessing the ppl that r gonna read it is prob local
now thinking about it i think ima just stick to 2 pg
some ppls 1 pg resumes scare me in how cramped it looks
magic grotto
@terse sapphire
@magic grotto Not majorly common I don't think. What sort of thing do you do as a Tech Mentor?
I help my protegees get clear on what their goals are, help them form a plan, then help them get there in the simplest way possible.
Some people come to me wanting to learn gamedev from the ground up, so we plan out games and work on fundamentals
Some people come to me with a specific ask, like a client who wanted to 'learn python' to complete a task at a professional job. His real goal was to get a promotion, not to learn python, so we ended up building him something to impress his boss in excel
Some people come to me with a professional goal like "i want to be a data scientist" and we map out a plan and build up skills and knowledge step by step over a long period
I have taught Python and gamedev and 3DP and robotics classes many times, but I find working 1-on-1 is the most effective and rewarding
I started working with my own coach last year, and the progress is night and day
terse sapphire
@magic grotto Wow Great sales pitch haha. How much are your services?
timber gate
plain pumice
Hi guys, I learned the basics of python and am solving atleast one question from hackerrank daily. Now, i started looking for some internships and jobs related to python and found out that django is the most demanding skill. Earlier I was not considering getting into web dev because of all the competition but now I am thinking of learning django. I need guidance on what I should do next... pls help.
plain matrix
@Aaditya Trivedee#7907 I can join
rocky geyser
@magic grotto a coach for what?
magic grotto
@magic grotto Wow Great sales pitch haha. How much are your services?
On the order of a few hundred a month. I'm willing to get creative, too.
@magic grotto a coach for what?
@rocky geyser I'm working with a lifecoach, he helps me plan and keep things on track, and he's particularly helpful in advising me on growing my practice
I need guidance on what I should do next... pls help.
@plain pumice The best thing is to build something that you yourself want to exist
vapid jay
any module/branch that is sought after on freelance platforms?
elfin abyss
A lot of people are after web developers
wheat trench
I'm doing Edx "Introduction to Computer Science and Programming Using Python"
Is that course well respected and licensed? So i can put it to my CV after i finish.
It was in recomanded area in this server.
plain pumice
What is the most in demand skill for freelancing related to python? And If I were to learn webdev, should i learn django or go into other languages like php, js, etc?
bleak stratus
Hello I learned Python im good in it But rn my family going threew financial problems is there any way to make my Python skills to help them?
jolly furnace
ive seen lots of jobs asking for react and it seems more frequent than the ones asking for django but then thats just what im seeing
vapid jay
Hello, are any scripters here available for hire to make me a face recognition system, if you are DM me.
inner wrenBOT
vapid jay
Yes?
limpid trench
check rule 5
https://github.com/ageitgey/face_recognition just check this out
you won't need to hire anyone
you can easily make it through this
limpid trench
i am building one for me, i can give it to you if needed
will get over within 2 weeks i guess
since i am likely to mess up
vapid jay
Can you explain me how to set up this one
The one you found#
I only started learning python
vapid jay
Could you teach me how to do it tho?
limpid trench
i got to sleep, i will tell tomorrow
haughty verge
So I just landed my first programming job. Anyone got any tips I should keep in mind for when I start in a couple of days? Already had a couple of internships.
jolly furnace
try not to get fired lol. idk much about jobs cuz i dont have one
haughty verge
Lol I'll keep that in mind
jolly furnace
on the serious note ive heard about asking for help is always okay
golden moth
congrats!
whole vale
Hey guys, you know if I pick System engineering it would teach me how to code?
is the only enginering related with computing
whole vale
yep
As far as I know ther is system engineering, software engineering and computer engineering
jolly furnace
i think software is closest to software development?
computer like focuses on the hardware?
so i guess its gonna be mainly c/c++
whole vale
ok
jolly furnace
does ur usrname mean qentien tarantino in quarantine?
mortal wedge
Basically, don't get fired, lol. Learn a lot, ask questions on things you don't understand. Better to ask now when you get some leeway for not knowing than later on
limpid trench
@vapid jay so what do you want to make? find facial faces in a picture?
oak tide
Hi guys. I have good knowledge of python basics, data structures and algorithms, know how to work with Flask, Django , can do basic machine learning projects. Recently I am also learning REST Api creation and authentication-authorisation system. What else in python I need to know to land up a good job as a python programmer ?
wide needle
honestly those are enough to land a good job
jolly furnace
ngl thats kinda true cuz ive seen postings where the qualifications were literally that plus some sql stuff
oak tide
Thank you for your view friends.
Im hoping to but it inside my server as like a Utility bot or something
@vapid jay Do share me in personal what type of bot you want ? If it is of less time taking, I can think of working. I am preparing for jobs incoming that's why I have to know what's the time investment before taking up some task.
mortal wedge
It's not so much about knowing python, it's knowing other computer science concepts as well
knowing enough python to implement basic data structures and algorithms will generally be enough to land you entry level
jolly furnace
from my experience hs comp sci is kinda garbage
i learned nothing but trama
the subsitute teacher had better debugging skills than the actual teacher
and we just watched videos all day
wide needle
education level doesn't really mean much to me. i know people with 4 year degrees from good schools that can't code at all and i know high school graduates that are amazing. the opposite is also true. what ultimately matters is a) can you pass the stupid bar to get a job and b) can you get work done and be a positive contributor to a team
true harness
taking high school classes is a good start though
wide needle
one thing about getting a degree, it's a shortcut to getting more interviews
true harness
4 year shortcut
wide needle
it's more difficult to find people who will give you attention with just highshool
i mean i didn't get a degree, i just had to work my way up from tech support for as much time as i would have spent getting a degree
heh
true harness
do you think you would be in the same or comparable spot with a degree?
wide needle
it's hard to say. i had no plans on ever going to school. i'm really bad at learning from other people
or i should say on other peoples cadence/schedule
i did really poorly in high school, didn't even bother taking SATs or applying to college
jolly furnace
its just that so many ppl these days have degrees
wide needle
the timing for how much of my career went was very lucky based on being in the right place at the right time too
true harness
that's shocking to me since most people at my school plan to go to college for a degree of some sort. very few people decide to not go to college outright
jolly furnace
so ur kinda at disadvange against ppl who do
that's shocking to me since most people at my school plan to go to college for a degree of some sort. very few people decide to not go to college outright
i think thats a community thing
wide needle
i agree but i've worked at many large companies you've heard of full of people without degrees
jolly furnace
there r some poorer communities
wide needle
they just take a different path
jolly furnace
where ppl take other paths than collage
and there r some decently well off communities where ppl go to collage
true harness
and for you I suppose the work experience was very helpful. I wouldn't trust someone who came right out of college with anything
wide needle
most of the people i've worked with right out of college definitely supplemented their education during college
people who do projects and get practical experience seem to do much better at interviews and integrating into a new job
but that's just my anecdotal experience
vapid jay
@limpid trench Just to find a specific face in a picture and label it as a name
And its going to be linked to interpol so it will flag all criminals
@chrome hamlet For gcse a levels Its enough
Im doing my GCSE's rn
topaz tartan
limpid trench
@limpid trench Just to find a specific face in a picture and label it as a name
@vapid jay ohk i can do that, i almost done with it, will ping you tomorrow
And its going to be linked to interpol so it will flag all criminals
@vapid jay i am not sure how i can do this, but will try
viral echo
Is there any Python flutter front end dev. not to work for me but to work with me
limpid trench
it is under process, i got one from github and now i am editing it and making it better
@vapid jay
vapid jay
@elfin abyss isn't the market saturated for web-dev?
haughty verge
What do you mean by saturated? Normally when people say that they mean too many people are trying to get into it. I think there is more than enough room in web-dev for alot more people
vapid jay
@haughty verge I mean the supply of web-dev is quite abundant and the demand might not follow
I was looking more for a niche
digital fjord
People always need websites
haughty verge
Ah. Well it's fine to look for a niche. I do however think demand for web devs is still higher then the supply. No telling what the future holds though I guess. I totally get wanting to not go into web dev though and trying to apply your skills elsewhere
vapid jay
ok but I am sure that if I go on a freelance platforms most of the guys offer web-dev
web-dev with python is mainly back-end?
@haughty verge
haughty verge
I don't know. Alot of webdev jobs I see with python use flask or Django and both are capable of being back end or full stack.
digital fjord
You generally do want JS for frontend
haughty verge
Depends. People will try to go full stack with Django for the same reason people try to go back end with JavaScript. Some companies value using one language everywhere over what would be a best practice. The last company I was at was trying to use c# for everything and move away from using react native for mobile just so they could be using c# for everything.