I'm open for any kind of collab or project
#career-advice
zealous ibex
vapid jay
Self taught
Would listing prestigious books like SICP Iโve completed along with a note that projects are on my GitHub be a good idea?
Of course Iโd list my actual projects more prominently
vapid jay
Do you guys think it would be worthwhile job-eligibility-wise to buy Excel and write some kind of Python-interface for it?
vapid jay
I'm okay with reinventing the wheel if I gain something from it. I guess I would be better off asking if it would be worthwhile job-eligibility-wise to get experience with Excel over something like Google Sheets which I already use and wrote functions for
vapid jay
Surprisingly I'm finding quite a few that just say "create spreadsheets." I'm not sure if that means that they don't care what software is used or Excel is implied or what
indigo sleet
They mean excel
vapid jay
Hmmm
versed dawn
Anyone here self taught?
vapid jay
Isn't it significantly easier to get a cs job in any other area outside of the bay area? Like RI
main thicket
It can be due to less intense competition, it just depends on the area
vapid jay
๐ค but less over qualified applicants?
All the top notch people go to the best areas
So i would have an easier time applying
The cream of the crop
vapid jay
I am
Boi
But i don't know what to specialize in yet
I have been applying to different positions
I'm learning algorithms rn
Going to switch back and forth between learning how to use Linux
indigo sleet
Nah, gentoo is the deep end
vapid jay
๐ค
So they're both deep
Im using netcad
And taking the free online linux courses
main thicket
I thought LFS was the deepend
vernal lily
making personal Linux kernel modules is the deep end ๐
unkempt cloud
I'm young (Highschool) and prefer Python so much more to Java or any other standard language. Is this a habit I should unlearn, for real? I'm starting to get kind of deep into projects and I want to make sure I'm not making a mistake, spending my time in Python when something like Java might be a better career orientation.
People around me say that Python isn't useful dependable the word I'm looking for, and I'm better spending my time on anything like Java, C++, C# etc.
main thicket
@unkempt cloud people around you are dumb and/or inexperienced, python is just fine
But almost any decent programmer will learn multiple languages
limber rampart
You can always look at job adverts in your area
vernal lily
no need to choose
learn both ๐
main thicket
Every language has advantages and disadvantages. Using python all the time is fine. You might want to learn a language different from python to cover your bases
I think C or C++ well when paired with python
unkempt cloud
I like Python a ton because of the REPL opening up in fractions of a second lol.
vernal lily
Rust shill not shilling Rust ๐ค
main thicket
Yeah absolutely, a working REPL is a huge reason people love python
I definitely miss it in other languages
unkempt cloud
I'm into Highly Modded Minecraft and making a mod is one of the things on my bucketlist before I graduate.
main thicket
You'll have to learn Java for Minecraft :P
vernal lily
Jython lmao
main thicket
Minecraft is written in Java so
unkempt cloud
Yeah, I know. I'm proficient at the Syntax and basic problems in Java, but I haven't learned anything in terms of imports
vernal lily
you have kotlin or scala
as options with different syntax
unkempt cloud
Too many options, projects and things to do. Too little time.
main thicket
Scala is pretty different from java
unkempt cloud
There was a discussion on the Modded Discord about how Scala was automatically included for the Forge API for the longest time, despite no one using it that much.
vapid jay
they came out with something new recently
unkempt cloud
Twitter
^ Forge API dev. What Minecraft Mods use primarily.
Just thought it was interesting. ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
vernal lily
ah okay
vapid jay
@unkempt cloud My work is just python so I think you'll be fine but of course knowing more is alwaysb etter
unkempt cloud
Lol. I've just gotten a bunch of people talking shit about it saying over and over "I mean yeah Python is great but it's not used for anything high-level so... go Java"
I wake up in 4.5 hours tho, gtg ๐
vapid jay
Alright that sounds crazy
unkempt cloud
I just sit through 2 exams I'm exempt for, so not really a big deal
vapid jay
Talking about the quote
vernal lily
@unkempt cloud tell them instagram runs on django
main thicket
Tell them Python is the main driver behind a some massive websites and lots and lots of smaller ones, that it drives the world of AI/ML, scientific computing, robotics and so on, going hand in hand with other languages like C++
vast shoal
@unkempt cloud In my opinion, you can't really be wasting your time getting really proficient in any given language, even if it isn't the most widely used. If you're good at programming in general, the specifics of a given language and technology can be absorbed relatively quickly. That said, it's good to get exposure to multiple languages so you can recognize what the similarities and differences actually are. And it's a good idea to get exposure to multiple different paradigms. So you wanna become proficient in at least one OOP-focused language, one functional language, etc. And like others have said, Python is huge, especially for certain kinds of applications, like web backends and data science.
viral plover
Is this the right place to post, if I'm looking for seasoned devs?
velvet kite
@viral plover We don't allow recruitment at the moment, this is not the place for that
viral plover
@velvet kite Okay not a problem! ๐
craggy wave
There are some platforms that are suitable for recruitement, though. The Python.org has a jobs page and there are some recruitement websites that are often used for this
viral plover
@craggy wave Yeah, we are posted in quite a few places, just wanted to be a little un-conventional ๐
craggy wave
Ah, okay. We're actually thinking of how to best approach the recruitement problem. We've seen a lot of honest, good offers that we would like to give a place on our server, but also a lot of the more, err, scammy or unethical offers. We may go with a recruitement channel with a webhook that gets listings from external sources (like the Python jobboard)
viral plover
@craggy wave Yeah, that would be cool, I've got a deep love for Python, and wanted to find Developers of a similar mindset, that have that love for tinkering etc, and that haven't just taken it as a CS degree because there mum told them too! aha.
If you go down that route, would certainly love to post here, we are a startup, and don't get as much love as the big players!
slim island
how about setting a barrier to entry
make a recruiting channel, to post there you must link a listed active job ad that corresponds
on the downside, that actually filters out high end stuff that doesn't get listed on job boards but would show up on specialist communities like this
but it's a decent middle ground
i've been working with mitchellake for recruiting and they go as far as to attend relevant meetups to scout for prospects, they'd probably be keen to become involved in communities like this
slim island
deadly snakes and dropbears mostly
vernal lily
dropbears ๐ฎ
cyan ember
As someone looking to be recruited, I would also like to see a channel or some other alternative to typical ads. I'm largely self-taught in Python, with no degree or work experience, though I do have a HackerRank profile with 250+ completed challenges. I think I have a useful skill, but I don't feel right applying to ads with clearly stated education/experience requirements that I don't meet.
vapid jay
Am graduating in few days as a Mechanical Engineer, I have self-taught python at very basic level. ( Small projects like websraping, GUI, regex etc) .
Any ideas how I can get an entry level job that needs Python.
Where to start, what to do?
am so confused.
vapid jay
Y did you get a mechanical engineer degree
vapid jay
Or get a job as a mechanical engineer
karmic sun
so my company got back to me on my counter-offer and said they won't give me more in my promotion
๐ฆ
and every average salary i look up online through various sources has me being grossly underpaid. killmenow
karmic sun
@vapid jay I did industrial engineering as an undergrad. It's tough to get a company to hire you as a developer without a CS degree or any software work. I was lucky, I worked as a logistics analyst for 2 yrs and because I really enjoyed programming I ended up automating all of my daily work using powershell, excel/VBA code, and SSIS/SQL stored procedures. I used that on my resume and just applied anywhere and everywhere I could, then I had a really good interview. I also had some home projects via online courses and just things I wanted to build myself too that I used as talking points in my interview and I was genuinely excited about them. All about getting that first developer job then it becomes easier to move around to other programming jobs.
tawdry remnant
@karmic sun just to double check, looking at salaries in your area?
if you are being underpaid for the place you live you should consider looking for a new job maybe if its important to you
karmic sun
yep, my area is even above avg for salaries
yep i'm looking for a new job currently, interviewed a few places but the jobs ended up being not what I expected them to be based on the description or companies I didn't want to work for
sullen rock
yea it sucks when the job description doesn't match what is actually said at all
usually it's the HR people writing it though
or they just get a summary from the hiring manager in quick points
visual flame
How much is normal to change for coding? Im new to taking customers and i have my first potential customer
modern mural
This may be a weird place to ask this - because at this point (for the first time in my career so far) I'm on the other side of the table - but: Has anybody got any advice in pricing software (particularly Python) engineers? Having a meeting later this week with the executive team who I work for, and part of what we're going to be talking about is taking more people on.
Going to be looking for people with probably 2ish years experience
vapid jay
look up the industry standard based on your standing with other companies.. Glassdoor is a place to start
depending on the country, HR firms also have playbooks of starting salaries for position based on exp
modern mural
Having recently left a position due to being worth way more than what I was being paid, I've got very first hand experience of that!
vapid jay
If u need an entry level, im the guy
leaden fjord
Hey guys. I'm looking to get into data science in the future. I've lately been using vim to write my programs in Python, but I am curious if this is a bad idea. Would a company rather hire a different candidate with experience in a traditional IDE, or something like Jupyter notebooks; or does it not really matter in this field?
main thicket
literally no one gives a crap
vernal lily
if anything the smartest people seem to use Vim
main thicket
It literally doesn't matter. It's just an editor. An editor is for you to decide
The code looks the same
real python
Not the right channel
modern mural
Like - does this feel accurate to my fellow nerds here?
(noting that salaries in Aus aren't quite what they are in the US)
modern mural
Cool
Coolcoolcool
That 50%-75% number was the one I was hoping for
But, if helpful to anybody else, to save time on the SO dev survey:
| 25th Percentile | 50th Percentile | 75th Percentile |
----------------- | --------------- | --------------- | --------------- |
Python, 2 yr | $69 000 | $87 000 | $110 000 |
Python, 3 yr | $71 000 | $89 000 | $113 000 |
Python, 5 yr | $74 000 | $94 000 | $119 000 |
Python, 10 yr | $84 000 | $106 000 | $134 000 |
C#/Angular, 2 yr | $69 000 | $87 000 | $110 000 |
C#/Angular, 3 yr | $71 000 | $89 000 | $113 000 |
C#/Angular, 5 yr | $74 000 | $94 000 | $119 000 |
C#/Angular, 10 yr | $84 000 | $106 000 | $134 000 |
HTML/JS, 2 yr | $69 000 | $87 000 | $110 000 |
HTML/JS, 3 yr | $71 000 | $89 000 | $113 000 |
HTML/JS, 5 yr | $74 000 | $94 000 | $119 000 |
HTML/JS, 10 yr | $84 000 | $106 000 | $134 000 |
(all in AUD, in Melbourne)
But yeah - taking value seriously, because I'm a dev myself. I don't want to repeat the same mistakes I've been exposed to.
main thicket
@modern mural those actually look a bit high for Aus
I don't think they should be that high in Melbourne. Maybe closer to that in Sydney
vernal lily
Angular pay most?
whole bobcat
when i grow up i will make a arduino cigarette
using python
i will controll the smoke
and fire
unkempt cloud
๐ค You know, I used to grow up hoping to become a Fireman.
vapid jay
Aren't you in high school
icy berry
@modern mural looks fair even converted to my local currency and some quick adjustment for local personal knowledge.
ribs comment about the low and high percentile is more or less correct, but from my own experience you must go higher then the 90th percentile before you see those figures, on the low end it does sound reasonable.
analog turtle
what does a junior or young intermediate python dev make nowadays?
mostly just curious
sure but you get all sorts of other technologies involved w/ those
i guess i can do a SO job search for fullstack + python
analog turtle
right
zealous ibex
most in the US are around 100k a year
as data scientist it can go up to 250K but that's the high end
vernal lily
high end data scientist could have PHD or something
vernal lily
medium size companies got medium sized data ๐
zealous ibex
even a bachelors is sometimes enough
if you wow the interview
@vernal lily not always
because in a medium size you can do every task
vernal lily
yeah was joke
a startup could be big data
zealous ibex
yh
I'm pretty young that's why I don't see the point of having a PhD or even a master
because I will know the thing they will teach me there in like 3 to 5 years of self studying
of course with book and courses
vernal lily
PhD is for passion, more than career
zealous ibex
yh
I more want to just get a bachelor in cs and then work for like 5 to 10 years and build a start-up or become a part of one I'm passionate about
btw @vernal lily are you working or a student at college?
vernal lily
I'm still studying
zealous ibex
sure I'm also but at a lower level you can say
main thicket
@vernal lily you don't need a masters in the US to do a PhD
vernal lily
you don't? ๐ฎ
main thicket
Actually PhD without the masters is the norm for most subjects
main thicket
US PhDs are longer lol
main thicket
UK PhDs are like 3/4 ish years. US is more like 5/6
vernal lily
yeah in UK you get PHP by age 25
green sinew
PHP
solemn valley
sounds like a disease i dont wanna get
green sinew
@solemn valley PHP might be the only reason I get my next job
UK ftw
btw
@main thicket About the US vs UK PHD, how many years total are people in the Uni for, say, a physics PHD?
Here... its 7/8
Undergrad then Phd
main thicket
US -> 4+5/6 = 9-10 years
UK/Aus/NZ etc -> 3+1+3/4 = 7-8 years
(I think in the rest of Europe it's more like 8-9 years because of a masters being 2 years long as opposed to UK's fake masters and Aus/NZ's honours degrees)
craggy wave
Here, it's 3 + 2 + 4 = 9, but it usually takes longer than that, since the proportion of students who do it in nominal time is on the low-end in that particular field. (Here = the Netherlands)
green sinew
3/4 Year PHD
What do you mean by "fake masters"
I know its not really a master
But...
Whats the reasoning?
main thicket
There's a few things. There's less credits in a 1 year masters than Europe's masters, the research component is somewhat gimped, etc. The equivalent 1 year intense course with research component in Aus/NZ is "honours degree" and is separate from 2 year coursework masters and research masters
main thicket
Just a different system, you'll be fine. Especially if you stay in the UK
dry ferry
@green sinew Your years are wrong
3 YEARS BSC/BA
4 YEARS MSCI
Only reason for masters is a) you don't know what to do with your life b) your course is shit and you want to look better c) you love your subject
C is really the only valid reason.
main thicket
...or you want one of the many jobs that require/expect a masters?
sullen rock
Quick question for anyone who is actually employed using Python
not to be too up-front, but what is the expected salary range for an experienced Python developer via the U.S.?
for a larger company
vapid jay
Questions for experienced developers in enterprise development will vary so much because of references, cost of living, salary negotiations, entire benefit package
sullen rock
data engineering/processing, mostly banking type, Southern U.S., 4 years exp
vapid jay
Iโd say over 100 for sure
But below 150
Fair but if youโre moving south from north then youโll be expecting to make at least what you make currently
sullen rock
makes sense
vapid jay
Not that he said that
vapid jay
I only really code at work most of the time but Iโm also entry ish level, python is my main right now because of flask
vapid jay
entry level is so hard to get
pulsar drum
Yeah showing is better than telling i.e. showing projects you've done and talking about the langs and tech used
But I've been told some actually do prefer to also have a short list of skills
cause it makes it easier for them at a glance
And some skills can be hard to show
vapid jay
my skills are in the project desc
my desc could be a lot better
but i dont know what to put
pulsar drum
You can talk briefly about why you chose the technology you did
what problems you overcame
if you made it for someone else talk about how it helped them
pulsar drum
Well those are questions I've been asked before about projects I've listed
Doesn't necessarily mean you need to put it in the resume ahead of time but just giving you some ideas of what you can write about.
vapid jay
thanks
main thicket
@sullen rock pinned
vapid jay
u forgot doing hitman jobs
main thicket
What kind of hitman uses a shovel
vapid jay
A smart one
pulsar drum
here's a short guide that helped me in the past
main thicket
i dont like that guide. it feels opinionated. "The more impressive your experience is, the shorter it can be" is ridiculous because unless you're in a position where famous, that's not true. A skill list can help convey the kind of developer you are and the projects can exist to back part of it up. Just because someone doesnt have massive projects in X due to lack of time doesnt mean they arent skilled in it. I dont think you should make it as sparse as possible, there's an optimal amount of information density + the ability to design to draw attention to the important parts
vapid jay
for all my projects i have at least 2 bullet points
main thicket
you cant give tips that are too opinionated because those opinions vary from people to people. I know recruiters that like listed languages and I know ones that dont. I instead give principles that underlie the resume design and motivate particular choices and you can design it however you want on top of that
vapid jay
alot for the good ones
i just gave -what i did
im just worried about the technical part
i dont like leeting
main thicket
post anonymised resume, we'll roast
vapid jay
ok wait
pulsar drum
I don't agree with everything in that guide but I do think it's actually good that it's opinionated. Ultimately, one has to do make a choice on whether or not to do something in their resume and it's useful to hear reasons for why or why not to do it. When writing a first resume one is kind of a blank slate that can't comfortably make such decisions oneself.
That's speaking from my experiences at least
That being said it is useful to hear both sides of the argument
main thicket
The guide doesnt present itself as opinions and it doesnt show the other side and it doesnt explain why. And following "cookie cutter" style guides is what leads to most bad resumes. To make good resumes, you have to understand what makes a good resume
main thicket
Course projects are meaningless, taking courses is meaningless, saying you made projects "to memorize syntax and good coding practices" is meaningless
main thicket
icons and name are fine
I would explain more in your Walmart job if you really have nothing to show in professional experience
vapid jay
main thicket
did you take part in extracurricular or hackathons or something?
volunteering, codejams, hackathons, clubs/societies
Can you describe some of the "learning projects" instead of listing the vague possibility of their existence?
vapid jay
i didnt do shit
for learning projects, im just making short programs
like 100 to 200 lines for various things
and doing leetcode
thats it
main thicket
You need to start doing active projects because most people would toss this resume after a few seconds of looking
vapid jay
cool
main thicket
choose something you can turn into a "project" rather than a quick challenge answer
something like basic neural net or CNNs for MNIST there are medium but you can find tutorials for both easily. need to extend those way further
vapid jay
btw y are the course projrects meaningless
main thicket
everyone that did the same course did them, you had guidance from your school and ability to copy from peers, had no originality or creativity on its own
vapid jay
well its better than nothing i guess
do u work for microsoft
btw is there a bigger version of the picture
main thicket
click, right click, open image in new tab
vernal lily
ip visualization tool sounds cool
green sinew
@dry ferry Sorry, my mistake.
I live in Scotland.
We have longer uni courses, because our high school is cut a year shorter than yours
dry ferry
Ah
vapid jay
Guys I have a big question?
It's killing me with confusion.
Here's scenario I have downloaded several Data Science courses online from Udemy. I am studying them every day. Am in initial stage data structures.
I graduated few days ago as mechanical engineer.( Naturally I don't know any other languages other than Python)
I am trying to find a job related to Python data science locally by applying on LinkedIn and Naukri.com but no luck yet.
So here's my question should I join a class or teausion course locally which teaches data science and also promise Placement but no 100% guarantee. Here's the catch the fees for such course is very high, I am also willing to pay that but they don't guarantee the placement, I am confused if the local courses are worth it.
Has anyone done any such course and please tell if it fees was worth to get a job.
Can someone tell me if I should continue studying by myself doing projects, uploading on GitHub, again ML studying applying for jobs
Or
Join a local course and get pay them money to teach the same thing again and get interview calls.
What should I do?
main thicket
@vapid jay Do you have a mecheng job lined up? What's your experience in data science? What projects do you already have to show?
Cant tell you more without knowing your background a bit more
vapid jay
I have a TechSupport job lined up ( through campus placement in Amazon but am probably not going to do that )
I am fresher in data science. I am looking for experience but I have done self- teaching projects small ones.
Eg. Predicting sales of mall product, applying regression to available data to predict relationship clustering etc.
And am working on one big image processing but it's not complete yet needs time to gather enough data
So there you go...
main thicket
Is there a reason you're going for data science over mechanical engineering?
vapid jay
To be honest I like working with computers and IT over working in a factory
I didn't know that before I enrolled to mechanical
I went with the crowd, I made a mistake. I was naive, wasn't sure what I want to do 4 years ago
main thicket
most mechanical engineers dont touch a factory and spend more time on computers, definitely possible to get mecheng jobs that dont really have much field work. I ask mostly because it's still easier for a mecheng grad with little experience to get mecheng jobs than to get DS jobs with no experience or relevant coursework
can even get more programming or at least software oriented mecheng jobs. there's gotta be someone who writes simulations and computational code but also there's entire roles for computational fluid mech and finite element analysis
or get into something like robotics, mechatronics etc
vapid jay
Like the ones that use MatLab? , CAD?
main thicket
lots of places use python over matlab now
vernal lily
Medhanical engineering has lots of CAD yeah
main thicket
matlab is expensy
but doesnt have to be CAD
surely you must have covered CFD or FEA in your mecheng degree
vernal lily
Martlab is still used for pure math majors here in europe
vapid jay
Yeah. I want to work in a place where they use Python to do mechanical engineering things but how do get a one? Or find one.?
I have studied FEA and CFD but only therotical study,,,, thanks to indian education system
main thicket
First taylor your resume to show that you have those skills, then look for firms/companies that do those things. I dont think they should be very rare but I dont know the Indian engineering market
vernal lily
Whats CFD and FEA
main thicket
Look for engineering places around you at all, think about whether they might use those techniques, and then apply if relevant positions are open or if not, try messaging them
computational fluid dynamics, finite element analysis
vapid jay
I copied your message, I will try that method @main thicket
main thicket
you can extend on top of https://lorenabarba.com/blog/cfd-python-12-steps-to-navier-stokes/ if you're interested in relevant projects
it's quite nice
vapid jay
But about my answer, should I join a local class or keep studying and job hunting by myself?
Thanks @main thicket good advice
Thanks anyways
vapid jay
What kind of careers can I get with Python (and maybe a bit of C)?
vapid jay
Sounds tough but fair
vernal lily
its good for general scripting too
vapid jay
Yeah, I heard Python is a "glue" language for stuff
sour hemlock
how long will it take to be job worthy in python if your learning from scratch
but you doin work
sour hemlock
how you mean
wild nacelle
Kind of difficult to pin point a moment of when you'll be ready
mental aurora
i mean if you're a good employee that is capable of learning on the job and you can mesh in with a team then you'll be able to get your first job
and then your career growth is limited by the relationships you make with people (references) and what you can show for yourself either internally with work completed or on side projects
sour hemlock
ok thats easy for me lol im more qworried about the coding
i also dont have a cs degree
@mental aurora
mental aurora
a lot of places will put degree in preferred or bonus instead of required
do you have any work experience?
relevant
sour hemlock
like in tech or in general
i have an unrelated degree and unrelated jpob exp
sweet
oh nvm
lol
i have a BS in Marine transportaionj lol
i mean i hear of people with bussiness degree getting in if they learn to code
even people wit nothing
ok cool as long as its possible il lget in
wild nacelle
We just had a guy who left the company as a SWE. He started off here about 2 years ago as a help desk/intern
sour hemlock
thats dope
i heard its easy to get stuck in helpdesk though
what about if i learn pythton and SQL?
wild nacelle
People who get stuck in help desk its usually because of themselves and not because of the job
SQL is super handy and at some point you'll have to learn some basic aspects of it
but stick with one first
wild nacelle
True - at the very least you need to know how to extract data that you need and joining data for comparison etc.
vernal lily
needing to do advanced SQL is not that common
there's ORMs a lot now too where you aren't doing any SQL by hand
wild nacelle
yeah SWE and SQL are semi-related but more advanced aspects of SQL and databases in general is a much more complex subject on its own
sour hemlock
thanks guys
vapid jay
Would it be viewed as "bad" if the test suites for my projects just used python's assert function instead of working with pytest?
vernal lily
pytest better
vapid jay
can the difference be equated to camelcase vs underscores or is more important than that
vernal lily
camelcase vs underscores is super important
its actually less important than camelcase vs underscores
vapid jay
Alright in that case I'll pass on pytest and count it as a win because I switched to underscores ๐
vernal lily
lmao
vapid jay
So tests are just scripts trying to break the code?
vernal lily
Not rly
vapid jay
What does he mean by testing code
So validation?
why is it called a unit test anyway
plush widget
cause you're testing small units of code
main thicket
Welcome, you just discovered property-based testing https://techbeacon.com/app-dev-testing/how-make-your-code-bulletproof-property-testing
Rather than coming up with test cases, describe expected properties and let the testing framework test all concievable cases
solar garden
Hello All,
Hope you all are doing fine.
So, I am in need of a bit help, as I applying for Python Django Developer Position, would you guys able to provide me a sample resume?
I tried searching the net, but frankly, couldn't find a good one.
*am
main thicket
I have a decent resume but not webdev focused. Alternatively, we can help you find a good template and critique an anonymised resume.
solar garden
@main thicket Thanks for the quick tip.
If you don't mind, can I take a look at your resume?
Also, it doesn't have to be specific and hardcore to WebDev, but rather, an overall python developer(having a bit taste of webdev)
main thicket
sent
solar garden
@main thicket Thanks for the help, appreciate it. ๐
keen jacinth
proven cape
Any Linux Administrators around? Are you using Python to automate things? Do you prefer bash? Or a combination of both? Would love to hear your professional experiences.
vapid jay
so im writing a cold email to some cofounder of a education startup
in the mission statement page they talk about diversity and inclusion
should i mention that i come from a family of war refugees
im just asking for- a possible internship for any cs position
edit
i mean genocide refugees
indigo sleet
I would avoid it unless they specifically ask for details like that
Maybe you can imply it somehow
vapid jay
"goes to great lengths to consider diverse perspectives in recruiting and hiring new employees"
in their mission
so
it might help
indigo sleet
It might, but you want to avoid looking like that's your pitch for the job as well
vapid jay
Can you be python back end developer with little to no JavaScript knowledge ?
rare sand
I was.
vapid jay
also whatโs software python developer? What does that work with
rare sand
then I learned some js.
vapid jay
@rare sand did U have to when u were
rare sand
I mean technically as a back-end developer, you're unlikely to be working on a lot of js if your backend is python
sometimes you'll see stacks with both nodejs and python
but I doubt it's super common
I was encouraged to learn some JS, and I wanted to
why not? it's a useful language.
a programmer who is unwilling to learn new languages and tools will probably not have a very progressive career.
vapid jay
What about software python developer what do they work with and do
Cus when I search python jobs all I see is data analyst data scientist pretty much
And those jobs require lots lots math
rare sand
titles are just titles. what people actually do varies from company to company, and is not necessarily similar across similar titles.
rare sand
as a back-end dev you will normally work on some sort of web product, and usually not on the design or user interface parts
I assume as a "software python developer" (a title I've never encountered), you'd be working on something that was not a web application.
but if you're worried about math, I will say that my math is terrible but I've managed to make myself quite employable as a python dev.
vapid jay
@rare sand so learning flask or django is a good thing to learn ?
rare sand
sure, they're excellent frameworks and very popular.
if you'd like to work with python in a web context, I'd say it's essential that you get at least a little bit familiar with both of those
vapid jay
Okay ty very much
main thicket
@vapid jay you can definitely say "as someone who ___, your mission statement speaks to me blah blah"
vapid jay
thick abyss
@vapid jay you'll enjoy learning Django, one of the most beautifully documented frameworks if not the most beautiful
vapid jay
how do you prepare for coding interviews.. from scratch.. Asking because I know most people here went the SWE or other Dev route.. I'd like to be on par with them some day..
main thicket
study up algos and data structures and practice leetcode
pulsar drum
Finding practice interviews is great
I managed to get in touch with a senior dev once who was looking to hone his interviewing skills
So it was a mutually beneficial situation for us
Also, having a study buddy helps. I am speaking from experience. We motivated each other and it was fun to discuss the problems with someone else
Especially when one of us had a solution and the other didn't
If you're looking for those kinds of relationships just join communities and ask around
pulsar drum
I haven't seen their business interview video but I assume it covers more general interview stuff
Cause an interview is not all about the technical skills
Important to remember that
It's very much a "social" thing too for lack of a better term
formal sedge
how fluent in python would i have to be for a python dev job? i consider myself pretty advanced in the language but i've never worked in software dev so i'm not sure if i meet the bar for that
pulsar drum
Being fluent in a language doesn't matter as much as understanding computer science projects
Often in interviews you'll be allowed to write in pseudocode for the questions
It depends on the position though
formal sedge
ah, alright. i just see a lot of "must be knowledgeable in django/flask" but i have no idea how knowledgeable they want lol
pulsar drum
Some positions require more knowledge in the language than others
And some languages are more prone to needing more knowledge
e.g. C++
well django and flask are frameworks, not a language
formal sedge
eh, sometimes they get to the point where i feel like they have more to learn than python itself does
but yeah, i know what you mean
pulsar drum
And yeah it is vague, but if you've worked with the frameworks before (even better if you have porjects to show for it), you should apply
you can ask them for more info if you land an interview
If they don't ask you first that is :p
formal sedge
alright, i'll keep that in mind, thanks!
i've got a pretty much guaranteed software engineering internship next spring, but other than that i have no experience in the industry, i feel a bit lost ^^"
whole bobcat
i need help controlling the smoke on my modified cigarette using the arduino, and python
unreal linden
@whole bobcat that's not on topic with this channel
this channel is for discussing python and the world of work
unreal linden
i just told you this is off topic here
whole bobcat
ok, #help-coconut
tawny quartz
?
sharp yew
how easy is it to find interships while in a masters program?
tawny quartz
Depends on where you live and how flexible you are
Many internships will require you to move for the summer
sharp yew
Im in NYC and my program is super flexible
tawny quartz
There is nothing wrong with applying to 100 places
sharp yew
but I have zero relevant experience lol
yea im hoping being in NYC means I have a lot of options
internships that take masters students typically pay right?
tawny quartz
Yes
sharp yew
well i mean it depends on if i get responses no?
tawny quartz
Unless your program will cover your costs
sharp yew
I have enough money saved up that I think I can get through the second year
tawny quartz
If you can't get a paid position, look for research opportunities
sharp yew
without a job
yea thats also another option
but you think unpaid is not worth it even if I have zero relevant experience?
tawny quartz
Often times profs will take on students over the summer to burn down their grants
It can be worth it
Just think very hard before pulling that trigger
You should be fairly certain that you're going to learn or otherwise get something from the experience
E.g. a well-known company
sharp yew
hopefully it wont come to it!
if i could get a nice paid internship during the summer id be so happy....
program is only like 1.5 years full time anyways last semester is part time so if I find something in the summer that still pays the bills i should be good
if not loans wouldn't be terrible just for a year
i hope
main thicket
You should never do an internship where you are providing any commercial value to a business without being compensated for it
That's known as exploitation
vernal lily
the sort of work experience I am talking about
you are a net drain on the business
stuff like work shadowing
could be unpaid but good
vapid jay
that also doesn't add any value to your resume
vernal lily
it does
vapid jay
consider a company that doesn't want to pay its interns.. I can't imagine it would
vernal lily
not so much for programming
but for other sorts of work it does
formal sedge
@main thicket to be fair, capitalism in general is exploitation :P
vernal lily
Stalinism Intensifies
vapid jay
i would take an unpaid internship near me
formal sedge
at this point? same. i just want experience
vernal lily
tough world out there
vapid jay
i graduated
plays sad songs on violin sadder because I can't play the violin
like officially a day ago
formal sedge
grats, creamy
green sinew
@main thicket You got some free time to talk about the maths/physics industries? Im real struggling to pick between them in terms of job security/ opportunities
main thicket
Sure hmu
green sinew
Ok so
I enjoy physics and maths equally, I'm (one of / the best) at both in my school
Obviously this won't last in university
But, basically mathematicans get paid more here compared to physics
But, I don't know how well those stats compare at the top-end of students
Basically, if you are in my position, how do you go around trying to decide what uni course is best for you?
main thicket
Here's the thing, there's no real thing such as the maths/physics industry. It's just not a thing. Proper maths and physics work is research work and generally speaking, it's not directly profitable to people.
vapid jay
u mean major?
main thicket
Research is not something you do for the money
Now that doesn't mean mathematicians don't get jobs outside research, most maths physics people get a job outside of research
green sinew
Yeah, I know that
Mostly work for buisnesses
I enjoy physics more
But I want a nice job afterwards
vapid jay
I knew a physics major once.. think he went to mcgill, now he's a swe at google
same with this other physics major from poland who also studied at university of tokyo.. ended up at google
vapid jay
oh and this one other guy.. who did his phd in physics.. ended up working for google in uh.. let me think.. I think Chrome OS
main thicket
Maths/physics people both often go into quantitative finance, data science, software etc. Apart from that, physics people also have the opportunity to do research in industry depending on field which can earn more, and also some end up doing engineering careers despite lack of engineering degree
vapid jay
I'm not really well versed on where pure science majors can pursue pure science careers..
main thicket
I don't think it's worth comparing statistics between the two. They will say more about the kind of people that maths/physics people are than about their majors
main thicket
In my experience, maths majors are more likely to want to do quant finance stuff than physics majors which can twist the averages since quant finance guys can earn a lot
green sinew
What I mean is, if I can be at the top end of my uni in physics, I should be fine?
main thicket
Do you want to do research?
vapid jay
major in math, minor in physics
main thicket
Chances aren't that small, a lot of people into research end up doing research. The bigger worry is more that the pay isn't exactly stellar in research and getting a faculty position where you're paid reasonably is competitive
main thicket
I'd highly recommend looking at engineering
main thicket
Electrical if you enjoy both maths and physics, mechanical if you enjoy maths but enjoy physics a lot lot more
But both are filled of lots of physics and maths theory when you go deep enough
green sinew
So should I start with engineering? Or try to specialise?
The Edinburgh university course I wanted to do is "Mathematical Physics"
main thicket
Btw, join the physics server, you'll fit right in
main thicket
Definitely a good place to talk about a physics/maths career, more on topic than here
green sinew
DM me a good one?
gloomy lagoon
Bruh just learn PHP it stands for Programming Has Physics
Jokes aside I think you got good advice
What level of degree do you have if you want to do physics research? Iโve worked with a lot of physics PhDs who never got to do physics after getting their doctorate. Itโs a competitive field for sure. Seems from my second hand knowledge to be a hard field to conduct substantial research without grants
main thicket
Pretty much need a PhD to do anything useful, barrier to entry is high and low hanging fruit has been picked. Grants are much needed. Some parts of it have some industry funding too, stuff like solid state, optics/photonicsy stuff, etc. and some more engineer-y physics.
gloomy lagoon
Yeah Physics strikes me as one of those fields where the low hanging fruit has been gone since before Einstein and his relativity/brownian motion papers
main thicket
Sort of, yeah. There's still some here and there in the newer parts but fundamental physics naturally doesn't really have a lot of low hanging fruit.
gloomy lagoon
I wonder when CS will hit that point. I think the fact that many of itโs most important open questions are so fundamental and unsolved are testament to it still being in infancy
main thicket
I mean, theoretical CS is pretty hard to contribute to. It's only more engineer-y CS that's got low hanging fruit
gloomy lagoon
Well on the upper end of theoretical CS itโs basically just math with computation in mind
Poor way Iโve worded this but Iโm sure it makes sense
main thicket
That's basically what CS means :P
gloomy lagoon
Was up early getting ready for the morning leetcode contest theyโre having
They finally decided to have a morning none for people in the United States and Europe in mind
One*
My rating is a terrible 1800 or so because my first contest I joined with 20 minutes left and didnโt finish any questions because I had just discovered leetcode lol
I think itโs great that leetcode has evened out the playing field for CS people, genuinely.
vapid jay
Leeting is not fun
formal sedge
i don't really get leetcode. it seems like 99% of the people on there are terrible at coding? like, a basic binary tree inversion is faster and uses less memory than like 95% of the answers
vapid jay
ok
formal sedge
i just mean like
what's the point of using it for hiring?
gloomy lagoon
I think Iโve outgrown it after trying this contest
Seems to have a cap on how hard the questions are
Also the rating system is awful, once youโve done like 10 contests your score becomes somewhat static
Not a fan of the questions this contest, theyโre just reskins of other ones again
Might move to codeforces tbh
I think one trap of competitive programming is that the top 5% of programmers or so are basically copy paste machines who can copy and paste in their personal implementation of a suffix tree and rabin Karp fingerprint algorithm
In a previous contest it was virtually necessary to use the Rabin Karp to solve the hard problem and so the only people who did that problem were the ones who copy pasted in 100 lines of code for the base algorithm
It was extremely obvious after going over the answers, nobody can write a full suffix tree implementation of 100 lines in 4 minutes
vernal lily
lol
gloomy lagoon
By answers I mean the submitted answers of the top 10
Anyways probably not careers related so Iโll take this elsewhere
upper ember
Before working age in MN what can someone do to get income?
sharp yew
MN?
unkempt ferry
I would guess Minnesota
vapid jay
Minisoda
vapid jay
@gloomy lagoon do you have any degrees in physics?
gloomy lagoon
Only viscerally through reading through my late grandfatherโs grad school books from the 50s, he was a theoretical physics researcher by trade but more seriously no
When I say Iโve worked with physics PhDs I mean in work completely unrelated to physics
Shouldโve clarified
But theyโre talkative about their regret to a higher degree than most in my experience
mystic summit
Question to all the devs on the discord: how could I make myself more, like, appetible to companies fresh out of high school?
I don't really care what I will be doing, as long as I get paid
I need the work, and I want to make sure (within reason) that I get hired
gloomy lagoon
Not the answer you want, but by showing enrollment in college as a CS Major for the upcoming fall semester. You could get paid internships and freelances that way. Otherwise, personal projects are a big must
Maybe get some major certifications
mystic summit
I can't enroll in uni, I'm afraid
formal sedge
projects and a blog
mystic summit
That's something I will be working on for sure
formal sedge
you'll have to work hard at it, but it can definitely get you a job
mystic summit
Yeah but that's more something I can do when I have a job already
I can't risk it and spend time on my own stuff without having a safety net first
guess it's not so much as "get a dev job" but more "get any kind of job so I can get my footing"
tawdry remnant
oh like any job? go down to the supermarket and work there
but the projects stuff was more about building a portfolio and showing prospective employers what you can do
mystic summit
Yeah, I will do that, but I can't if I don't have something to support me
mystic summit
Maybe it's wrong to reason like that, idk
earnest knot
Do you have a github profile with work on it?
mystic summit
Yep, school work
earnest knot
If you have any personal projects, throw them up there too
mystic summit
I have a script that crashes the NAS
earnest knot
You can also contribute in a variety of ways to other projects and get credited for that on GitHub
mystic summit
I know ๐ I don't think I'm up there yet in skills
earnest knot
You don't need a ton of skill to contribute to many projects, some of them are just beginner projects who would love contributions
mystic summit
how should I go about finding those?
earnest knot
You can check the #303934982764625920 channel, I got involved in one beginner level project through there
A D&D bot
mystic summit
That sounds cool as hell ๐
But yeah, I should work on projects now that I have a couple of days
before shit hits the fan
earnest knot
Some people on that link are just asking for tests to be written for their code
That's easy stuff
wild nacelle
For folks who are already python developers - what do you expect from say someone of a junior/entry level experience? In other words what is your baseline requirement from a python developer (I know that this can be a difficult question to answer and can vary from one person to the next but I am curious to see what people say)
vapid jay
is creating a discord bot a good project for your resume?
formal sedge
depends on how complex and well-coded it is
it definitely could be
but a better project is wrapping the discord websockets api
thats a pain though
mystic summit
Wrapping the api?
formal sedge
Write a discord library in Python
I've that lets you talk to the discord websocket API with python
Aka wrap the ws API in a python api
It's a great learning experience
formal sedge
Just dig into the discord docs
That's what I did
solemn valley
(well or you just use discordpy)
tawdry remnant
its a good learning experience, and even if its not novel it shows what you can do
mystic summit
I'll do that :D
Sounds easier than trying to tell vba to ctrl+o with python /s
Still haven't figured that out
vapid jay
@gloomy lagoon interesting considering physics is a broad field
My sisters boyfriend is finishing up his PhD in nanoscience after undergrad physics
So your conversation was interesting to me
gloomy lagoon
@vapid jay keep in mind everything I say is anecdotal as a result of me not being a physicist
vapid jay
Thatโs why I asked
gloomy lagoon
Nano-anything is probably a big exception
My guess at least
But why didnโt he get a head start with a degree in picoscience? 
sharp yew
grats mate
vapid jay
so for the company im applying for has a bunch of new people in management and new devs? what is a good question i can ask?
sharp yew
ask them some recent projects they undertook?
i think thats a good one to ask for data-science jobs
halcyon plank
Hey Guys! I am newbie programmer and I have a question
Actually it's my dream to work at Google one day! But am still not clear that what types of jobs does a computer programmer have
Like does software engineering differ from software development?
I want to make new software and applications be it for mobile or for a computer
So what role does this come under?
tawdry remnant
In general, Software Engineering and Software Development are used interchangeably. And the range of jobs a computer programmer can do is insanely broad, since it would cover the entire spectrum of software.
typically, you tend to say what kind of software engineer/dev you are, and thats your role
ie Mobile Application developer, backend engineer, front end engineer, full stack
halcyon plank
So does web development also come in software development?
vernal lily
TBH all web devs should be full stack
I don't agree with being back/front end only
tawdry remnant
yes web dev would fall under software dev
the way i like to think of it is this
i say I'm a software engineer to people who either dont really care or arent technical, and i say my role (ie backend engineer) to people to who technical/interested
halcyon plank
Okk..so if I want to learn how to design a computer software and how to design mobile applications which language must I learn?
vernal lily
kotlin+swift
halcyon plank
Also..what does a backend engineer do? Like what do you need to do?
tawdry remnant
backend engineer is veeery broad
basically
backend engineer is anything that isn't front end
as in non user facing/UI
halcyon plank
So there are sub categories in back end engineering too?
tawdry remnant
i would say so
like in backend you could be working on networking and server infrastructure, writing scripts/applications that run on servers, database stuff
karmic spear
bachelors vs masters degree required ?
halcyon plank
Other than the BS degree & MS degree of course
Nah! What's the diff between development intern & engineering intern?
Suppose I wish to apply for the software engineering intern
Then what should i learn?
karmic spear
well, I would say that usually engineer is more broad than a developer
tawdry remnant
read the description
halcyon plank
Here's the description
karmic spear
developer it is
halcyon plank
Engineering
tawdry remnant
compare it to the dev listing, see if theres any key differences
could just be posted by two different people :p
halcyon plank
The only diff in description is the MS DEGREE & BS degree ๐
tawdry remnant
there you go :p
halcyon plank
So what type of engineer is Google basically looking in these ads? A backed engineer? A web developer? Someone who knows how to make websites? Someone who knows how to make mobile applications?
tawdry remnant
so if you look at the listing
in the preferred section, it mentions what kind of projects they would like you to be familiar with
and its pretty much the whole spectrum
these internship listings cover everything, they will match interns with the appropriate departments
if you are clearly more interested in front end stuff, youll likely end up somewhere doing front end
halcyon plank
Yah..& it's not possible for a human to know everything in the spectrum right?
tawdry remnant
you tend to specialise
gloomy lagoon
I work at google currently. Keeping in mind that Iโm not going to reveal anything that isnโt public, you can message me if you like
halcyon plank
I want to make apps..be it for computer or be it for mobile? What do you suggest? Which is in better demand nowadays?
Wow @gloomy lagoon โจ. I surely will!
main thicket
@halcyon plank They are the same posting
One's for canada, another's for the US
In Canada, you cant legally call yourself an engineer without an engineering degree
Hence why Google calls it developer there isntead of engineer
In the past, Microsoft has gotten in trouble for it there
(not for software engineering eactly https://www.canadianconsultingengineer.com/engineering/microsoft-gives-up-the-title-engineer-in-canada/1000000701/)
But I'd guess Google is just being careful
gaunt pecan
above is the right answer
the โEngineerโ designation is protected by law
you have to actually have a โProfessional Engineerโ designation, granted by the respective provincial regulatory body, to advertise yourself as an engineer
vapid jay
hm
And we are looking for an important addition to our small team of ninja developers to help us solve big problems.
never heard of ninja developers before
gloomy lagoon
Is this palantir? Lol
vapid jay
No
gloomy lagoon
ninja developer there means you work with the law team
Donโt think it has an actual meaning in any other companies, just a synonym for โvery goodโ whether true or not
vapid jay
i read that it just means u know a lot of different shit
like fullstack
would be a ninja?
and lamp dev?
gloomy lagoon
Uh I think itโs just a tongue and cheek word
It doesnโt have some meaning like full stack does
AFAIK
vapid jay
I have an over the phone screening interview with the CEO of a small company for a software engineer position. I am assuming between 10 and 20 employees. The CEO is brand new and has only been leading the SaaS company that does work for the government for less than a year and a half. I fit most of the requirements but I just have a lot of projects to show and zero professional experience. Is there any must do's I should follow in the interview? Right now I am researching about the requirements I am missing, making some questions to ask and compiling a list of behavioral questions to prep for.
vapid jay
I got 2 more interviews
gloomy lagoon
Nice!
vapid jay
I have an interview for a platform engineer position. What are some ways and resources I can use to sound like an expert platform engineer in two days?
gloomy lagoon
Is it a completely entry level position?
If so I doubt they expect expertise, so while itโs great to learn whatever platform engineer stuff is, donโt try to sell yourself as some expert unless you want questions you canโt answer
vapid jay
entry level
i would be following senior platform engineers
i wanna start learning a lil bit -but there are no good resources
leaden fjord
What do you guys think about this resume layout?
Using it for my first internship in data science
Any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated
Obviously, I need to add in the other sections, but I don't want to continue if you guys think this isn't a good way of doing things.
The layout is quite similar to someone else's who helped me out in this group a while back. Thanks in advance ๐
main thicket
Too much stuff in the skills section. If you don't have solid projects or employment to give your claims some weight, the large number of things sounds like you're trying to exaggerate and blow smoke . I'd get rid of one of the 4 lines, probably the first one
Stats -> statistics
Calculus based computation is a meaningless term. I would assume by that terminology that it means experience with numerical computing which isn't what I think you mean. Linear algebra is very general and can mean anything from the strong foundations in applied linear algebra used in quantum mechanics, or numerical linear algebra, or abstract linear algebra
leaden fjord
Thankyou for the quick feedback! I'll be sure to make the changes. ๐
solemn valley
instagram?
indigo sleet
Working on it myself
gloomy lagoon
โArtificial intelligence and Machine Learningโ in the resume is a throwaway resume if you didnโt get a masters in it from a top uni or work in it at a top company
People have caught on and there is a perception of tensor-kiddies as the equivalent of script-kiddies in ML
You need projects and experience to back it up otherwise you will be considered a bragger and theyโll assume you claim expertise in many other things you have no qualification in, true or not
If itโs an interest, mark it clearly as such, but companies donโt care much about interests, just skills and credentials imo
pulsar drum
Really your projects should reflect your interests anyway
slim island
damn you guys are harsh
i thought it looked okay
then again my expectations have been dropping ever since joining kpmg
formal sedge
what do you guys recommend for a resume? i've seen people use doc files, some use pdf, some use latex, and some just written in straight up HTML
gloomy lagoon
pdf for HR
formal sedge
Will definitely do that, thank you
main thicket
I do. It looks nicer and I despise word
limber rampart
I do for mine, but mainly because I don't know how to create the layout in anything else
Word for anything graphical is just pain
sullen rock
I actually just discovered the other day and couldn't imagine doing any other way now
how could I have used word this whole time
๐ฆ
main thicket
I've stopped using Word for almost everything in general. With some getting used to, I find Texmacs as easy and fast as word to use for documents
gloomy lagoon
Iโm forwarding this to Bill Gates @main thicket
vapid jay
whats a good feedback question i can ask during a phone interview?
like do you have an hesitancy about hiring me...
main thicket
definitely dont ask that
I generally ask technical questions about their tech
Or company's business direction
Or stuff like, "Do i get a 20%" or "How easy is it to change teams or work on a different part" or other stuff about what perks you get for being somewhere
rare sand
yeah ask about their tech
that's worked very well for me
I ask stuff like "what platform do you guys use for internal communication" and lots of questions about developer workflow, CI, devops and monitoring, do they have daily stand-ups? how do code reviews work?
sometimes asking the right questions can give as good of an impression as giving the right answers.
not only can you show that you know your stuff, but it demonstrates a real interest in the company and passion for your craft.
vapid jay
im talking to a non tech person
main thicket
In that case, business decision and future vision + stuff about the company culture and perks
vapid jay
hmmmm
so asking for feedback is bad because its a hard question to answer?
cuz if the interviewer does answer, i could counter argue on their point
if their point is i am too inexperience or something\
rare sand
no, it's too pointed.
shows a lack of confidence, will probably make the recruiter uncomfortable
it's a bad idea.
it's like asking "how is this interview going"
tawdry remnant
ye dont backtalk the recruiter
rare sand
you might get away with it but it's not a good play.
you should be dispelling their hesitance by demonstrating that you're a good candidate. you do that by doing a good interview, nailing the tests, and (in my opinion), asking good questions.
and even if it played out like you said
the interviewer says "well I'm worried you don't have x or y"
do you really think that a "counter argument" would convince them otherwise?
you have to show it, not say it.
tawdry remnant
I also think you risk coming off as hostile and not able to receive criticism if you try to counter their critique
vapid jay
yep in the in-person interview if i get one 
alright i wont ask for a feedback question
i got these-----
How many employees are working at the company? I noticed that there are lot of transfers from XXXXX.
What does a typical day look like for my position?
Is there a daily standup?
How big is the software team?
What is the culture like for my department?
rare sand
yeah those are pretty solid
the last one is a bit open-ended
but it would probably fly
vapid jay
i just pull the last four questions from the internet
its a small company
existed for 26 years
rare sand
I mean I mentioned one of those questions to you earlier but I guess you missed that.
vapid jay
and they partner up or got acquired by an investment company
oh yeah
the person is a non tech person
im not sure if she would be able to answer them
they only have 7 employees on their linkedin
1 senior dev been there for 26 years
and 2 junior and 5 other people < all have been there for under 2 year
tawdry remnant
what kind of a company is it? like which industry?
vapid jay
they do dev work for the government, transportation and enviroment sectors
they have a near 100% retention rate
i am just assuming they have more long term employees
that dont use linkedin
tawdry remnant
if its a tech company, theres a good chance their screening recruiter will be somewhat tech literate and will ask about projects and stuff you've worked on
vapid jay
yes
is "I noticed that all the management employees are new, what happened to the previous employees?"
is this a bad question
cuz i wanna know what happened to managament
or maybe all the long term employees dont use linkedin cuz they have no reason to
rare sand
I wouldn't ask that either.
vapid jay
hey stake
gloomy lagoon
โwhatโs your favorite color?โ Is my favorite interview question
vapid jay
r u srs
vapid jay
i think u and lemon go together
main thicket
@vapid jay You need to show confidence and self-assurance in your interview
I hate to use the analogy but it's a bit like dating
Would you ask your date how it went or what he/she thinks of you up front?
gloomy lagoon
Dude you get to be the men in black bro. But without aliens and more desk jobs
main thicket
I don't get why you'd want to join FBI. It's basically police in fancier suit but for federal matters.
gloomy lagoon
Government doesnโt pay well but it does have a sort of semi-pension still and does have amazing health care benefits
If you were middle aged and needed 9-5 and those benefits then government should top your list
But it also makes it harder to get industry jobs later because the govnerment doesnt have a reputation for talent, even Three Letter agencies
but thatโs my personal opinion having turned down a gov job out of college and being really happy I did
Though if you can get a research position those are good because it pays government salary to just do research all day
Beats academia at least Iโve heard
vapid jay
plus you can look up everyone's info.. get good credit.. set for life..
vapid jay
i already have good credit
786
yes.. I knew that already..
๐ ๐ด
Cus it seems like a cool job
I remember.. they used to recruit at college campuses
never heard from those guys again..
(guys who got recruited I mean)
They work for cia now xd
They got new names now lul
frosty cloak
i dont live in USA so i dont know what a research job is
are you guys talking about a normal job or a job that requires programming?
sorry for my noobness
main thicket
research jobs are jobs where the primary goal is to do research (research new and cutting edge things) on things like AI, robotics, evolutionary computing, etc
main thicket
to the average researcher, programming is "grunt work". their interest is in higher level theory. often they let someone else more interested in programming (but still versed in theory) do the programming
there's a lot of AI researchers that can barely program
frosty cloak
i have seen some of those AI algorithms on my days in college, they were really hard
main thicket
researchers in general have PhDs so they are used to hard
frosty cloak
ty for answering my question
slim island
also research papers are deliberately obtuse
and don't make a ton of sense to people not in the particular field+subfield
main thicket
I wouldn't say deliberately...
slim island
it's certainly deliberate
but not nefarious
that said, papers could certainly be made more accessible with a marginal increase in effort
potent solar
@slim island how deliberate it is depends on the discipline, i think
at least in my experience in a few aspect of academia
main cedar
Is there a good site that has 'real world' coding challenges. ie not just small algorithmic type exercises, but more practical ones that would find day to day in a job. ie from writing tests to reading data of a file and transforming it etc...? Thanks
main thicket
@main cedar the pinned challenges in #python-discussion are more practical and you can develop them into full software
craggy wave
I'm not sure about more practical challenges, but a service https://www.pythonmorsels.com/ provides challenges that are aimed at improving your Python itself by focusing on the Pythonic aspects of the language. Not entirely what you're looking for, but a far more professional perspective than the puzzle-based challenges. It is a paid service, though.
main cedar
@main thicket robotboi @craggy wave Thanks I'll take a look at both of those.
solemn valley
does this fall under recruitement
vapid jay
yes
vapid jay
So I'm thinking of going to a staff agency to get a job. I live in California. Does anyone have any good recommendations?
vapid jay
yes.. get out of california..
staffing agencies there usually recruit for contract/temp positions..
go somewhere like hobokken or Omaha.. take a couple of years, build your career and you'll have total freedom..
vapid jay
d?
yeah..
that's the one
consider this.. when people hire you they're not gonna see which location you worked at..
it'll be more based on the title and responsibilities
build the solid foundation.. and you can make it anywhere..
on the flipside.. say you start your career in ny where the starting salaries are high.. you limit yourself in location and career growth
wanton abyss
c
steady cave
d
rare sand
no.
mystic anvil
Hi guys how can i start doing freelance small jobs ?
grizzled sundial
In my experience, you've got to know someone who wants to hire you
Talk to friends/family/coworkers about what you've done in your spare time. Eventually a friend-of-a-friend might actually be looking to hire someone.
mystic anvil
there isnt a good way to start doing it online?
grizzled sundial
Ack, none that I know of. I hire graphics designers off fiverr often enough; I could see someone getting business with a "I design your website" or whatever your specialty is
dreamy summit
you can also try UpWork
winter pumice
Hello. I have an interview with for a position with a big data company tomorrow. Has anyone else been through the interview process for a company that deals strictly with data and analytics? If so, what questions had they asked you?
vapid jay
@winter pumice it'll totally depend on the person interviewing in my experience
try to see what their interest is
but also just think about your interesting data applications
vapid jay
@winter pumice depends on the position.. what analytics?
leaden fjord
Would you guys think its pointless to put my class ranking on my resume? I placed #1 in my Calc class this last semester, and I really would like to include it. Would you who have experience in recruiting find this unprofessional in any way or irrelevant? This is for an internship btw
Also, I will be receiving a few certificates for some courses I took online. To really show my credentials, I want to showcase these. I'm curious if this is also unnecessary for any reason.