career-advice

[prime galleon]

Howdy everyone! I’m trying to get into coding and python seemed popular enough to have a lot of people using it, any advice on how to start?

[pine sleet]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[prime galleon]

Thank you!

[grizzled rampart]

guys, im 16 going for a Software Engineer Careers withing a computer science degree. Do you think im cooked for being a Software Engineer in a couple of years?

[pine sleet]

no

[grizzled rampart]

im scared now because i already picked my pathway courses for grade 11

[grizzled rampart]

why would that be, because i hear a lot of people saying its over for software engineers.

[pine sleet]

nobody can tell the future ofc but i dont see the software engineer field as a whole going anywhere. it will probably change though

[grizzled rampart]

Im refering to getting jobs in software engineer industry

[pine sleet]

yeah thats what im talking about

[grizzled rampart]

do you think i should still go with it?

[pine sleet]

if you want to

its generally easier to become skilled at a field you're actually interested in

so if you're interested in being a software engineer, it would be easier to become skilled in it and be employed

[grizzled rampart]

what about having a job in 2030 lets say, what would i do if AI completely replaces Software Engineers? would i just be broke

[pine sleet]

no, a lot of your skills would transfer

[grizzled rampart]

such as?

[pine sleet]

communications, teamwork, problem solving, critical thinking

[grizzled rampart]

true

[smoky quest]

If it can replace software engineers, then what jobs can't it replace?

[grizzled rampart]

very true, it would be end of humanity basically

[smoky quest]

or the start of the matrix

[grizzled rampart]

humans are destroying humans at this rate

[whole flare]

hasn't this been happening for the entire history of the human race anyway?

[grizzled rampart]

but in the sense of jobs

[placid crest]

Don't get caught up in all the dooms day advice the youtube people preach, do what you want and work to become good at it, there are always jobs for those who are willing to work and employers usually hold onto the ones that are good

[grizzled rampart]

yea, ngl hella youtubers and tiktokers are doing too much posting negative videos

[placid crest]

It's what gets views lol

[grizzled rampart]

fr

[smoky quest]

they optimize for views, not for truth

[golden jetty]

Thank you for the insight, Ig ill just keep working on building models and tackling problems while passively applying for internships every now and then

[harsh remnant]

yes

[hexed kraken]

basically with advanced robotics, it can pretty much replace every field out there

[frail viper]

hello if someone is bored and wants to do a python exercise in exchange for a reward come see in "python help" you are my last chance guys 🥲

[royal remnant]

should i sell all my earnings and gamble ?

[kindred oyster]

ofcourse

[fringe sphinx]

What could go wrong?

[royal remnant]

nothing tbh, if i card count correctly i am up 2.5x

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.amazon.com/Bringing-Down-House-Students-Millions/dp/0743225708

[royal remnant]

you really think i am gonna buy the book, lmao

[fringe sphinx]

Those who ignore history ...

[royal remnant]

let me try to find it online

[fringe sphinx]

I think they made a movie about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_(2008_film)

[royal remnant]

well i will watch it rn, thanks for the influnce

[winged fable]

can somebody give a tips how to get work?

[vapid jay]

i wanna be a python dev can any 1 tell me how to be whats the roadmap to follow?

[fringe sphinx]

There's no true roadmap, but start with a beginner tutorial and then do small projects to practice. Then decide what you want to learn next.

Ask in #python-discussion for tutorial recommendations.

[stoic timber]

Where do you live and what is your background?

[fringe sphinx]

Also, if you want to be a professional, a University degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[winged fable]

live in Belarus. I take a course from yandex practicum. junior developer. I wrote pet projects, got acquainted with the telegram api, udsoncan (libraries for writing/reading on the cars), django, flask, fast api, got acquainted with the server in unix systems, was able to work with docker, db and many others.

[delicate wren]

@winged fable i started from upwork when i learned basic python and started with webscraping lucky got client for full time

[devout ravine]

hey guys ,
i have a doubt, few people in our team know flutter, and others know react native can we work on both diffrent platforms and integrate it.

[devout ravine]

@light hatch

[light hatch]

i just answered that question in another discord

and i dont think its relevant to this channel

[static ferry]

Any army people in here? Looking into joining at some point, how have you found it and what do you do?

[devout ravine]

i was timed out there so i tagged you here T-T

[stoic timber]

Sounds like a great start, do you have a LinkedIn profile?

[winged fable]

No, but I've heard it's a cool thing. is it worth getting it?

[tawdry pond]

What are the required skills for webscraping using python?

[drifting prawn]

hi guys

[summer plover]

skills

[solid otter]

How long does it take to be competent at coding/programming

[pine sleet]

it can vary wildly from person to person and is almost impossible to give an exact and accurate answer

[smoky quest]

In terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[abstract olive]

Hey I wanted to ask that If I start from scratch how much time it will take it me to land a data analysis remote job

Taking the tech stack: python, power bi, excel , sql, and ai tools and please guide me if I am forgetting something looking for your support thanks

[harsh remnant]

most opportunities is cap

[harsh river]

why? and what's your suggestion then?

[harsh remnant]

doctor, engineer, anything else other than coding

[smoky quest]

why? Especially when it comes to someone wanting to be competent with coding/programming?

[hexed kraken]

Hey guys, are certifications worth it?

[agile basin]

Anybody got experience selling software/data. I've got a large company interested in a solution but have no idea how much I should be charging them and where negotiations start

[buoyant seal]

it depends on your soft skills and educational background

• your knack towards solving technical problems. University tends to enhance it significantly.
• how much you have education 🙂 person that studied in university for 4 years (or longer) and solved stuff during that time is unevitably going to be prepared significantly more and has already his/her brain broken and remade many times to get used to it.

person that already graduated usually can become Middle dev in competence within

• 2-3 years if the person is spending good portion of time for self studies, and has challenging enough tasks at work to grow in competence. pet projects do help too though.
  • if person is not self studying and job challenges aren't challenging enough (and person spreaded himself towards management and other stuff instead), then it can take 5, 7, 10 years and even longer to reach competence level.
  • plenty enough times Middle level of competence can be the only thing person can achieve
• senior level accordingly achievable within 5 years if having knack for it, self studying and job gives enough challenges. And can be not achievable in entire career for majority

[hexed kraken]

better get an attorney

[fringe sphinx]

Start your thinking with a "cost plus" estimate: how much time/effort/resources will it cost you to build, deliver and support this?

Factor in a reasonable salary for yourself, additional engineer(s), and throw in 10-20% for additional professionals (tax/lawyer/etc... nothing crazy, but it does cost money to make money).

And consider any cloud or fixed resources you'll need.

[agile basin]

It's already built, I built it for my use to make my work easier and it turns out they could use it on a national scale

[fringe sphinx]

Do you work for this company?

[agile basin]

We have a business agreement for lead generation but not as an employee

[fringe sphinx]

But regardless, software doesn't just "work" without support and maintenance.

[fringe sphinx]

Be careful how to tread here. See the attorney recommendation.

[hexed kraken]

The fine print can hide too many details that can screw you over

[fringe sphinx]

Anyway, if you can derive a cost-plus estimate from this, that'll give you a framework to think about how to charge it.

[agile basin]

I will have a good reread of it again

[fringe sphinx]

Who is going to support, train, update, maintain, etc.

[fringe sphinx]

No. Hire an attorney.

[agile basin]

Unfortunately I'm not in the situation to do that currently

UK based for context too - There are also two options, they can buy the results and the data or buy the software. I've estitmated 2-3000 labour hours saved on admin processing which works out £30,000

I was thinking that starts the floor price for just data and then £65,000 if they want the software to do it with £10,000 a year for retainer

[fringe sphinx]

Is that worth your time?

Supporting a service for years at 10k/year?

(I have no idea, I dont know complexity of this)

[agile basin]

It's a really simple solution tbh so the big pay out is £65K

[fringe sphinx]

My point is: consider both the cost of development/maintaining... and separately... the value. Model it both top down vs bottom up.

[agile basin]

I know they want it as they found on friday morning and wanted me there this morning but had to rearrange for tomorrow

[fringe sphinx]

So first, come up with your value proposition.

Are you saving them a full time employee?

Are you saving X hours per employee?

Second: is part of the value your know-how?

"I've figured this out, and I can make your entire sales force smarter... let me help everyone"

Also, be willing to hear what they care about. Sales can be motivated by many things.

[agile basin]

Oh its defiantly reducing the requirement for a staff member or two, even just on a temporary basis so they can focus on real work. Will be used by multiple teams so does make the sales force smarter. Yeah its tricky to how to value it as its just something I've learnt on the side for my own satisfaction. But giving what you've said makes me want to go a little higher than first thought - Thanks for your help its great things to think about during the process

[eager jungle]

An small Introduction about myself:

I am an undergraduate student, in pre-final year. I am currently pursuing Bachelor's degree in Artificial intelligence and Data Science. I have been working as a freelancer for 4 years now in data extraction and data scraping. I have worked on two gen-ai projects, one a news chatbot with RAG, and another, is an Hybrid OCR, for comics, with Gemini.

I would like ask a question:

I want to pursue a role, where I will be building ML models, thier workflows, etc. What are the things I should do, that would increase my chances in the current global job market, and most importantly, what job role would it come under...?

[open ivy]

My general advice is to always be working on two skills:

• Technical skills.
• Social skills.

All jobs are social. Programming is also technical. These two skills are essential on your future job and so will require always improving.

This means:

• Have a side project at all times. Keep it at a low enough level while employed as to not interfere with your work. Document progress on it, include unit tests and demos when possible.
• Keep reaching out to social forums and in person if possible as well. Interaction with tech geeks is good (and a few non tech geeks for good measure). I found that if I replace doomscrolling with socializing it essentially takes zero time.

Job applications are fine in moderation, but should never be a big time sink. Remember that applying for jobs is neither technical (unless you make it mostly automated!) nor social (since it involves very little interaction with another human being). So it misses both core skills! The general idea is to send out an application when something catches your eye, not as a shotgun spam.

TLDR: Focus on both technical and social self-improvement

[vapid jay]

Do any of you make money using Python online?

One such example being the website repl it, you code based on the person requirements and if you do good they pay you.

[deft herald]

repl.it has freelance stuff? TIL

[desert moth]

is there whoever familiar with epam?

[open ivy]

I have heard bad things about freelancing. What people have told me:

• There is a saturation of workers so pay is very low.
• There are many low-quality workers which can drown out high-quality workers.

I still want to try it out, since solid experimental data is better than theory. I never likes mass applications. The theory says they don't work, as they are very unnatural for a social task. But I still set out 800 resumes (semi-automation cut the work by about half), only got 3 interviews and no offers. Many interviews are fake: small companies dry-running the hiring process with no intent to hire as well as a loophole in outsourcing laws where companies interview Americans, reject them all, and then hire abroad.

Sociology is a messy science. But the message in this case is clear: for me, in my situation, the resume grind is a bad strategy. In addition, it does not train any useful skill (the way both networking and personal projects do), makes zero social contacts, and is also far less enjoyable.

So why to so many people stick to this strategy, as if it is the only game in town? Why do we flex 1000+ applications like quantity is all that matters? Its a silly as counting productivity in lines of code.

I think it is worth trying freelancing. If it fails that is expected, but if not (which is a possiblity) it can be quite nice.

[deft herald]

I keep meaning to try it just for some 🍺 money but I can never find the time

[open ivy]

I find that if I spend an hour a day on side projects it makes me happier, and pays for itself. That is about the pace I can sustain during busy work sprints.

But freelancing is less fun, since there is a degree of "apply and wait" frusteration. I still want to try it, but it is not as simple as "get an assignment, do a task". And also it is doing their task, not my passion, so squeezing it in is harder.

It is something I need to try when work gets slow. It likely will not work, but it is worth a try.

[near ocean]

Not all freelancing is of the form of "apply to a bunch of shit on upwork", thats probably the worst form of freelancing

[open ivy]

So how do I go about getting the "better" form of freelancing?

[near ocean]

You use whatever network you have

I might be really off on this but in my mind freelance is only worth the effort if others come find me for work and not me hustling to land tasks on X platform

[open ivy]

"All roads lead to networking."

Networking then is something that is useful to both get a freelancer and fulltime work. I just need to be flexible. If they say "10-40 hours a week" I will accept, as that is still some money.

I stretch money by living in a mild climate, going car free, and having medical knowledge (useful if you ever find 40 degrees too cold for a wet T-shirt). So I can be a bit patient and flexible.

It seems like a pattern:
Online platforms where people go to find work are not a good idea. You don't go to a public place and say "do you want to be my friend" to everyone you meet.

Also, networking is at it's core friendship and mutual benefit. This is HUGE to mental health. So big, in fact, that a very strong network for non-materialistic mostly-status-blind people like me may exceed the utility of an income source (although having both is ideal).

[fringe sphinx]

While there are ghost jobs, hiring abroad part is not the reason. There are indeed job postings designed to hire foreign h1b and sponsor green cards, but those job postings are ridiculous to begin with... you'd know one when you saw it.

[open ivy]

That is surprising since my company (which is currently likely to fold and leave us with no jobs) was planning on making such a ghost job where they had to interview and reject Americans and hire a foreigner.

[fringe sphinx]

(There's a requirement before sponsoring a green card that you try to hire locally, etc, but that's a fraction of what you'd see and that's been happening forever... and it's so damn unproductive)

[fringe sphinx]

It's such an ineffective strategy because the process is extremely slow and unreliable.

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't worry about that. There aren't enough to matter that much.
Furthermore, they would be written in such a way that you would not want to apply

[fringe sphinx]

Took us like 3 years to convert a worker from visa to green card, it was ridiculous.

[open ivy]

Ok, we were just making a mistake. We were not trying to hire a person to live in the US, they would stay abroad and no visas.

So I was right (about ghost jobs) just wrong about the details.

[fringe sphinx]

Then why would they need to post a local job?

[fringe sphinx]

It's a complex topic: there are indeed ghost jobs and many of them, I'm just saying the hiring foreign worker reason isn't the main reason

[open ivy]

They told me that they have to "prove" that no American is qualified, and they need to advertise a job to do so, and interview at least one canditate.

Maybe they got that wrong? Immigration law is very complex.

[smoky quest]

you don't need to prove that no american is qualified when hiring someone who won't apply to a visa and won't move to the USA

[fringe sphinx]

(And even an h1b is considered temporary and there doesn't need such evidence)

But? Ghost jobs are a thing: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/22/ghost-jobs-why-fake-job-listings-are-on-the-rise.html

[open ivy]

I know two things about immigration law:

• It is difficult for immigrants. So I can learn how they get jobs against tougher odds than me.
• It is super duper complex. I am happy I don't need to deal with it. If and when an immigrant gets mad at me for complaining about jobs, I will remind myself they are vunerable themselves, I need to forgive thier anger.

So I was wrong.

[smoky quest]

I would also encourage to add a note so that people don't over index on it and blame ghost job over their resume

People with great resume (and experience/skill/education) don't have a problem finding jobs

[buoyant seal]

if they will want to hire you, they will just write ridiculously precise job vacancy tailored to your skills 😄 and thus easy filtering out 99.9999999% of earth population

[open ivy]

Yes, I need to clarify that applications make sense as long as they don't eat up much time or energy.

Strong resumes (strong industry experience for industry jobs, etc) make the process simple: just pinpoint to the particular positions you have and you will get the offers within 50 or so applications.

But it never makes sense to send out 800 or so, except over a very long period of time at a modest pace. I just wanted good data I am a scientist and engineer at heart!

When you have years of experience/education but little industry experience, resumes are not good. But networking benefits from such a thing: you can talk casually about how fun it is (and indeed, coding is very fun which is why I wanted these side projects in the frist place) and what you did, where you want to take it, etc. You have way more material than a "boot camp kid".

[smoky quest]

The number of applications can be viewed as a benchmark against the market.

Networking is a complement, not a substitute for applications.

[open ivy]

Are you saying that networking combined with applying to jobs where you know already someone there?

Cold applications served me very poorly, with the exception of companies who "caught my eye", but that was only a dozen or so.

But I see how knowing someone already there, at least at companies/departments that are not that big, even if not all that deeply, would help quite a bit.

[smoky quest]

It's breadth vs depth.

Networking enables you deeper relationships but it's very narrow and quite limited if you just start out.
Applying enables you breadth and to reach out many more companies.

All in all, networking is not magic. No one will hire you just because you are nice. You are very likely to still be looked at from your resume and interviews.
And if 800 hiring managers have declined calling someone for interviews for similar-ish position, it's unlikely for networking to address that even through networking. So it would still be advised to work on skills regardless as to improve the odds

[tough pivot]

Would you hire me for qa testing internship? People say my resume looks like I just scraped it together during lunch break but idk why

[open ivy]

That is a good point. It's not that networking is magic. It takes time, persistence, and flexibility in implementation.

It's just that cold resumes is a horrible strategy for me. It gave me essentially nothing out of 800 applications.

So the one rule I learned is to not use cold applications much. There are so many other things to do, and networking is very useful in benefits outside of getting a job itself.

[fringe sphinx]

It's a solid B in terms of layout. Not bad, not the best but it's not bad for a 2028 grad

[tough pivot]

2026 grad though

[rugged plume]

I'll add my personal experience to this. Networking with others has landed me several interviews that've led to me obtaining actual jobs. When I was in tech support, my supervisor knew one of the Sr Managers in the NOC at one of the big ISPs in the US. That helped me secure an interview which I did very well and landed the job. Later one of the Sr NOC Techs became a Network Engineer on another team at the ISP then six months after he started, he recommended me to his boss and I got that job too and did rather well. I still had to nail the interviews, but Networking with others really helps you bypass some initial filters

[fringe sphinx]

I love the emphasis on QA. It's a good strategy and plan

[fringe sphinx]

Still, it's fine. Here's a better template (you don't have to use it, just for an idea): https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[vapid violet]

in my opinion coding Projects

[tough pivot]

Ok thanks guys

[smoky quest]

The profile of a person has basically 3 components:

• education
• experience
• projects

The hint here, is that if you have sent 800 resumes without any bite, it means your resume is graded below the market.
And what I would recommend is not to give it up in favor of something else, but to work towards improving your profile along any dimension you can, while still networking.
Either way, it won't hurt you, it can only help.

Because people don't get feedback on their resume and there is so much voodoo and folktales around resumes (and hiring in general), it's incredibly difficult to understand why one does not get called back.

[open ivy]

That is why I like a hybrid networking/side-project approach. Keep building what I can build up. This leaves little time for cold applications.

"Because people don't get feedback on their resume and there is so much voodoo and folktales around resumes (and hiring in general), it's incredibly difficult to understand why one does not get called back."

Another reason why I am holding back on cold applications for the most part. It does not give feedback the way social interactions do.

[smoky quest]

Main feedback would be: show, don't tell.
Add some color and information about what was cool/difficult, and how you have done it. Includes as well the impact (ex: nasty bugs you found, outages you prevented, coverage increase, etc.)
Bonus point for testing methodologies and contexts (ex: you don't test an application running across multiple OS/arch/versions the same way you would test a UI)

[rugged plume]

I would venture to guess that the people who have visible side projects with stuff in Github, YouTube Channel, or even a blog that a hiring manager can look at have a much less hard time than others without any of it.

[smoky quest]

you could use your network to then get feedback

[smoky quest]

Indeed, they can be incredibly powerful!

[rugged plume]

Its one of the reasons I'm considering it. I think that's what'll help me get from the mid to senior level in my career is to document. I like teaching so I may just do a mixed GitHub/YouTube approach. At my prior job I used Webex to document talks on certain topics for others in my org

[fringe sphinx]

But the reason is not the GitHub itself... it's that they have diverse knowledge and have built things.

[smoky quest]

My take is it's a correlation vs causation problem and a source of common issue where people focus on having a github account, rather than focusing on working on projects.
People have github/youtube accounts because they do go further and do use and develop their skills. As such, they naturally have these.

Not too different than leetcode

[fringe sphinx]

The xp is what matters, more so than the resume bullets.

[rugged plume]

Right displaying projects. I have some cool ideas that I think would be neat to share not only for my own progression, but to help others too. I'm not direct in the coding world as I'm a Network Engineer that uses python for task automation primarily so its a mix of things for me

The main thing for me is YouTube I think

[smoky quest]

senior is also the time where you start reflecting on the practice itself, rather than just doing stuff. It can be a good avenue for you to think about how you and your team work

[fringe sphinx]

I think this is a great and healthy idea.

[rugged plume]

Personally I like teaching as I did that a bit at the ISP I left 6 months ago so using that strength on a YouTube channel could be benefitial to me

[harsh river]

sounds like you don't know all that CS / SWE has to offer 🙂

[open ivy]

Side projects also have a proof of passion. What motivates me to do them is just as much "this is fun and it makes cool stuff" as "I need to learn" or "I want a job".

I would much rather hire a carpenter who spend his unemployed year hand-building furniture from sawmill scraps on his own time than one who didn't.

[deft herald]

This discussion came up on another server; i thought it'd be interesting to share here. This is my pay change history as a % of total base at my current job since 2018. I'm in US, pretty large hardware company

Notes - the 10% was a mid year market adjustment, 8% was a job reclassification, and the 9% was a promotion. everything else was annual review merit-based raises.

And yeah, there was nothing last year for anyone 😦

[open ivy]

I think this is a proxy for how hard it is to get jobs. If there are no raises it is a bad sign.

[deft herald]

Yeah my boss was telling me we're still "in debt" internally meaning if anyone leaves, that salary just comes out of that debt first before we're able to hire any back fills. It's even affecting people who want to transfer teams internally which is dumb but w/e, corporate bureaucracy

fortunately this year we're getting raises though - supposed to find out the numbers this week

[ancient dagger]

hello everyone i started coding a few months back and just joined discord. I am preparing for data analyst jobs. how are you all

[deft herald]

Ask me tomorrow once i find out how much bonus/raise is

[fringe sphinx]

Same company whole time?

It's sad but your really don't make more money by staying at the same company.

[deft herald]

Yup. Qualcomm the whole time

And, mind you, this is all base pay. Bonus is a whole other animal

i could throw that on the same chart

[dusk kernel]

Hello i m new on python and i want to learn i have 16 years old can someone send me tutorials or tips??

[deft herald]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[dusk kernel]

Thx

[open ivy]

This relates to networking.

During a recession, it is important to not let that make me gloom and doom. People don't like that.

Of course, this isn't always easy. But crucially, there is a feedback because it is semi-obvious when oneself gets into gloom and doom.

The two biggest things to maintain, even in moments of depression about the future job prospects, is reaching out and focusing on the more positive aspects (the enjoyment of technology, etc) as well as not wasting time on doomscrolling.

[pseudo parcel]

Hello, It is my git: https://github.com/futuresea-dev
If you are free, look at it, and feel free to ask or advice to me, collaborate is also good.

[abstract olive]

Does anyone have experience here with data analytics internship if please then tell

[smoky quest]

What would you ask these people if they were to exist?

[abstract olive]

That how did you land a remote internship

Actually I wanted to ask for international internship

[white relic]

remote internships are rare

[rugged plume]

And international are likely even more rare

[white relic]

international remote internships are probably scams

[abstract olive]

And also what capstone projects they built in order to land that internship

[white relic]

capstone project? wouldn't that normally be done in the last year of your degree program?

at which point you'd presumably be looking for a job, not an internship

[abstract olive]

I am going to college now the results have came out in my region

[white relic]

results of what?

[abstract olive]

Entrance test for college

I am still a high school graduate btw

[pine sleet]

what country are you in

[white relic]

That's good! Going to college is the best option for young people who are able to go.

[abstract olive]

Yeah but can you tell me some experiences you have had when you were applying for internship that will be a lot of help

[white relic]

I had one summer internship which I got through a family friend. I applied for a few others and was not accepted.

College was years ago for me and I was a computer engineering major. What worked for me isn't something I would encourage anyone to try to repeat.

However I would advise to start looking for internships early and apply to new ones regularly.
Not all internships accept applications at the same time. More competitive ones will usually start early. Other internships may accept applications right up to the beginning of summer.

My experience is mostly US based.

[abstract olive]

Hey so does referral also works in internship or not

[white relic]

Depends on the internship. In general, getting referred by someone with contacts at the company is a good way to improve your chances at getting a job or an internship.

[abstract olive]

So what comoany do you work in

[white relic]

I work in superconducting electronics for a company you've never heard of.
Why do you ask?

[abstract olive]

Just to know

Basically what role in what department

[cerulean drift]

Hi, any idea where do I find Python remote jobs for Junior role?

[blissful charm]

hey! What do yall think about the software engineering or computer engineering sectors in next 6-8 years? Will the market become very saturated or flourishment of new jobs will take place? Just looking for opinions

[pine sleet]

linkedin or indeed

[pine sleet]

i dont think its really worth worrying about tbh, there isn't much you can personally do about the market. you should focus on your own skills and employability - you should be fine if you're skilled

[glass silo]

IMO linkedin seems like a -1, as many recruiters "ghost" hire (reportedly)

[cerulean drift]

somebody said wellfound and I checked on it

[glass silo]

I did, wellfound is a place for startups- good for getting an internship

[cerulean drift]

looks good to me. Thanks!

[blissful charm]

yeah but it is gonna be more competitive I guess?

[cerulean drift]

So many companies from India though

[pine sleet]

thats pretty much impossible to tell accurately

still not really sure if its worth worrying about how competitive the field will be in 6-8 years for your personal career

there isn't really anything you can do about it which you aren't doing anyway

[lilac sundial]

Whats an easy way to check the avg salaries of ppl from a particular uni comp sci majors

[muted vine]

Anyone interested in collaborating on a browser game? The structure of it has been completed and the base backend and frontend is already coded. I'm having some issues with my routing/redirects. There is a GitHub and everything. I just could really use a hand and I'm willing to give a share of 50/50

https://github.com/AlphaFleet2024/galactic-command

[pine sleet]

the university will have to provide that information on their website

[onyx locust]

Could somone teach me on how to do a behavioural-interview? i've got no experience and i've got an interview tomorrow for a python internship, i've been advised to learn STAR, but if somone is in HR could they please help me understand some hidden tips or tricks for interviews?

i've looked into star and its talking alot about being in a company and talking about tasks you were given but if i land this interview, it'll be my first professional hire

i talked to one of the interview pannelist who's a senior developer, and they said that both technical pannelist loved my repo and were talking/discussing it, so i guess thats a good thing, but again they told me i'd need to learn STAR method for answering interview questions and to prepare stories

[muted vine]

Lol, I meannnnn, I help you, you help me? Haha 😆

[onyx locust]

could you keep these kinds of messages outside of this channel please

[muted vine]

This is exactly the place for it lol

[vital wyvern]

This isn't the place for it.
Also you committed your .env file which contains your database creds.

[muted vine]

Nah, I removed them. Even if they are still there, they are useless. They are local testing creds

[vapid jay]

Helloo everyone smokey here

[undone flicker]

guys i just dont know

what language and career i have to persue , bcs i recently checked It jobs at indeed and for 1 position there was 200 + application

is the market that cooked or im stupid ?

[peak halo]

What website was this? Some of those applications could be bots.

Are you currently working on, or have you finished, a degree in computer science or similar?

[undone flicker]

I'm freshman , with 0 exp xD

[peak halo]

Okay. Focus on your courses. You should apply for internships this summer, but you probably won't get one.

No one knows what the market will look like by the time you graduate. And you have time before you need to think about your specialization.

[undone flicker]

Eh, but what field i should focus more ?
cyber, web, machine /ai , data ?
which would u recommend

[peak halo]

Figure out which of those you actually like. There's opportunities in all of those. Cyber and DS/AI will require extra courses, but if you like them, you'll be able to do it.

[fringe sphinx]

"STAR" is just common sense of: if you're telling a story about your experience, start with the situation, and the task (the thing you needed to do), and your actions (your role in the story), and the result (what happened). It's more of a checklist than a "method".

[fringe sphinx]

You mentioned that they love your repo, so prepare some stories around that. One story might be how you decided to create that project. Another might be fixing or implementing a feature in that repo.

[fringe sphinx]

Might also be something about a school project... interviewers will often ask things like: "tell me about a time you had to work with other people"

[onyx locust]

@fringe sphinx mate thats fantastic, i spent like 2-3 hours, making up scenarios, asked chatty to make up some questions that a behavioural interview might consist of, and yeah i think i've gotten the hang of STAR and yeah i learnt that i can just use academic settings of real life settings, but not to stray from the STAR substance, you just reassured me that i didnt waste my time xD thanks

[last meteor]

Hey guys does anyone know if one can get a job if one has a disability? I know Microsoft hires and all, but do other companies also? I live in India but am a US citizen. Had a programming career for 17+ yrs then have been on a 7-8 yrs break due to mental health issues.

[rugged plume]

Generally speaking yes. Google and others in the FAANG companies have hired developers with physical/mental disabiliites. As long as they can pass the interviews and do the job that's all they really care about

[harsh river]

i have a disability and am employed 😛

[last meteor]

Would they consider your incompetences? I mean I wont be able to program the same way as I did before... is that considered? Or do they only look at physical incapabilities?

@KRRT if you dont mind sharing what kind of disability do you have? I have a friend who is blind and works in Microsoft Seattle. But I know that is a bit of an exception. As in he is very good at his job too and worked as a Director in another company before..

[peak halo]

what kind of developer were you? I think the bigger issue would be demonstrating that you are or can become caught up with changes in technology over the last 8 years.

[last meteor]

@peak halo I was a very good developer , bright and worked in big companies like Hughes software systems and Micron technology ... I have a Masters in Computer Science. Was in telecom and web dev. backend.

[fringe sphinx]

One advice: practice talking to a human (or to a rubber duckie)... not just writing a script. It's just a different vibe.

[harsh river]

i'm deaf and hard of hearing

[fringe sphinx]

Plus, you don't need dozens of stories. Have a few "home base" stories you come back to and use in different ways.

[last meteor]

@KRRT ok thanks ...

@peak halo having a github profile with some good projects would help right?

[harsh river]

absolutely

[fringe sphinx]

Also: you may also consider expanding the types of jobs you look at. There are many roles in tech / don't fall into the trap of only looking at coding jobs.

[jagged ridge]

can anyone mention library or extention of this discord for python pdf

[peak halo]

hello, this is the career discussion channel; see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[sudden trench]

You need a library for discord bot

[fleet iris]

can i get tips on improving my profile and the projects that i need to do... i have only about 1 year experience in coding am in 2nd year university india

since new semester started i don't get much time to program can anyone guide me on the projects i have to do

i like to do web development but have paused it and havent done any project for 4 months

i can share my github currently i only have a few crud django application with templates rendered. havent used much technologies too

i am only comfortable with python and maybe html css i use javascript but not that comfortable and havent used any tech in js

[fringe sphinx]

Don't worry about building something complex, and worry less about your resume than learning. Theres an infinite set of things you could do, so pick one thing and do that.

[fleet iris]

this is my github https://github.com/ZLaTaN003

[fringe sphinx]

For example, you could do a very simple Python project and add test cases, code coverage reports and setup a GitHub action to publish to pypi. That'd be an incredible learning opportunity that involves lots of small problems.

[fleet iris]

hmm but i feel tech i know is very less am pretty much getting used to python and django

[fringe sphinx]

What's wrong with with that?

That's like saying: I only know the Pacific Ocean

[fleet iris]

i mean i do need to know something like react or maybe some framework in js and ts or atleast be good in it for getting web dev roles?

[fringe sphinx]

Is Web Dev what you want?

[fleet iris]

yes i like it

[fringe sphinx]

Great, then do a web dev project. Don't set unrealistic goals: one small project at a time

You can do something simple in react pretty easily. You could do it in a day.

[fleet iris]

yes i have u can look my github above i did some django projects with templates rendered. but felt like its the only thing i know

i have completed cs50 web dev thats where i learned about django

[dark pecan]

Hi guys ! I am new to programming and stuffs and i want to like have a good career in AI and ml so whats the path i should go on to become good in AI , i know a little bit of python and C language tho

[void crown]

holy shit theres so many indians

[fringe sphinx]

There's so many pieces to this, from getting a proper education, to developing your programming skills, to studying ML and applying it through practice.

In general, I'd say: start with getting good at Python and do some data projects to learn the fundamentals. Kaggle.con/learn is a good starting point

[unborn rivet]

how long did it take u guys to learn python?

[fringe sphinx]

You probably won't get a useful answer, we all started at different points... and learning Python has many meanings (from 'knowing the basics' to 'able to tackle any project with some research' to 'true expert / core dev')

[fringe sphinx]

And everyone has a different level of interest, but: many people learn the basics in a few weeks or months, and if they practice, they can get pretty good in a few months to year later. At least, that's what I've observed, ymmv

[peak halo]

there's no absolute point at which you "know" a language. expect to spend years developing your skills.

[heavy radish]

hi how can I run Python on glitch

[buoyant seal]

during master's degree i used python for 2 years at student silly level.

After graduation i learned commercial grade for quality way to write code within around 2.5 years i think.
first 2.5 years after graduation i regularilly made garbage low quality projects, encountering bad practices one by one, but then finally figured out how to use efficiently.
took me around 4 python books ( i liked this one out of them the most , and around 6 software engineering core practices for that.

so... after that, eventually, past 2 years i manage to write code i don't regret having written a year later.

===
TLDR: took me around 10 books
and 4 times rewritten pet and work projects from zero
and it was reached at 3rd year my career after graduation
to get the level i am satisfied enough

[deft herald]

Been using python for 10 years and i still learn new stuff regularly. Often times on this server

[unborn rivet]

im 13 and just starting

[tough pivot]

10 days after an interview and no response that means you’re cooked right

[deft herald]

10 business days or 10 real days? They're probably still getting candidates

like imagine the had another interviewee who couldn't make it till yesterday

[tough pivot]

yeah I did choose to interview early so we’ll see but when I’ve gotten a job before it only took a week

[white relic]

really depends

I've told this story before but I had a buddy who got ghosted after an interview because the recruiter quit and it was like 3 months before their replacement started working through their backlog

then he gets a call out of nowhere, "so... you still interested?"

you can't assume anything like that will happen, ofc

[peak halo]

if you didn't hear anything after a week, I think it would be appropriate to ask if you're still under consideration. it would be unusual (and unprofessional) for them to ghost you.

[vapid violet]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[peak halo]

@wary shoal your message was removed for violating rule 9. I see you're new, so please re-read all the #rules

[wary shoal]

ight

[faint depot]

Just did a coding assessment for a HSBC degree apprenticeship. Safe to say I did shit. Its only 4 tasks; the first 2 were dead easy, the third one fucking exposed how shit my programming skills are and the last task required knowledge in programming languages I don’t have experience in.

I know I have the capability to be a good programmer but its difficult to self learn with no proper structure. I just have to keep persevering

[smoky quest]

Write down your notes about where you failed and then learn/practice these areas

[faint depot]

tbf i think if there wasnt a time limit, I probably wouldve been able to solve it. anyhow, ill just carry on with my normal programming

[near ocean]

What did they ask, can you share?

[faint depot]

the third task was to do with transactions and dates; if less than 3 transactions are worth $100, then you add the monthly fee of $5 to the month total. I knew youd need to group each payment with their associcated month

thinking back on it, I think I couldve solved it well before the time limit. just panicked and though of a random solutin that didnt work properly

[radiant vortex]

how long did you get?

[faint depot]

105 minutes. I completed the first two within 20. The third I tried but gave up. The fourth question was way beyond my capabilities; python was not an option, c++ ive only learnt for 3 days so couldnt attempt it)

[fringe sphinx]

The third one sounds like a leetcode/hackerrank style question, those you can practice... although the exact question might always still be unexpected

[near ocean]

105 mins 💀 i dont think i can do an interview that's meant to last that long

[faint depot]

Applying to apprenticeships now. Reapplied to Rolls Royce. I defo fucked up the deductive reasoning part. Its always the wiating that fucking kills me

[civic thistle]

hello who knos vertx?

i am looking for someone who can explain me vertx

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384> weird spam?

[frozen hill]

hi. im 17 and ive been coding for one year now . do i have chances with my age to work somewhere? im very advanced in python and even helped in developing software and cheats for videogames.

[smoky quest]

Hi!
In terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[frozen hill]

but im still in high school.. i have 2 yrs left

i mean a job for now

[smoky quest]

Then make sure you keep great grades so you can get into the college of your choice and continue to learn and explore

[frozen hill]

bruh i know that i mean a job for now

[smoky quest]

working as a waiter or in coffee shop are classic student jobs

[frozen hill]

are you dumb i mean a job related to coding holy sht you are fkin npcs here

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> looks like a young teen is having issue with their temper

[rugged plume]

Most if not all tech jobs will require you to be at least 18 to work. I'm speaking for the US idk how it is in other countries

[frozen hill]

thats some useful info thanks.

[white relic]

You're very unlikely to get a software related job in high school.
If you need a job, you'll need to take what you can reasonably expect to get.

[frozen hill]

why do they care about age tho

[harsh river]

idk, laws?

[frozen hill]

only my knowledge and abilities should matter

[frozen hill]

looks like a 32 old man who is on discord 24/7 is sad in life

[harsh river]

and you expect to get hired w that behavior?

[sand patio]

hey, dude, calm down.

[frozen hill]

listen old men get off discord and spend time with your family you dontt have lifes

[sand patio]

they're trying to help you. be respectful.

[harsh river]

i'm barely older than you 🙂

[rugged plume]

Its laws, almost all tech jobs are full time and most full time jobs tend to only be available for adults

[sand patio]

!mute 507265846977101826 6h not appropriate. be respectful, take this time to read our #code-of-conduct. If you continue to act like this once your mute is up, you will be removed from the server.

[inner wren]

:x: The user doesn't appear to be on the server.

[sand patio]

ah well, whatever.

[vapid violet]

I am not trying to further this issue, I just saw this an am curious on a note unrelated to the discussion above.

im very advanced in python and even helped in developing software and cheats for videogames.
Does promoting the fact that you make cheats... or other non ethical code like a sneaker bot during the job recruiting process (resume, interview, just on your github profile??) but you at a disadvantage.

I personally hope that it does, but I am curious to know if anyone has ever turned away a candidate due to past or present non-ethical projects

[harsh river]

put you at a disadvantage
in a perfect world, yes
but all the major companies recruit people who fit that profile as well

<@&831776746206265384>

[pine sleet]

Hello, i've deleted your message as advertising is not allowed anywhere on this server

[smoky quest]

yep, it's normal to reject these candidates as they have already demonstrated their lack of ethics. So why would they be trusted with important stuff?

[buoyant seal]

I try to be very open minded and acceptable to the most skeptical stuff though, with giving every justification for acceptable level for common area (Web scraping smth more or less morally acceptable, downloading youtube videos or smth. Not very approved here, but still understandable)

i could understand game cheat development for offline usage too, it is acceptable fun, unless it disrupts actually gameplay of online players, then it could be perceived less good.

i would see still negatively only directly malicious stuff like sneak bot 🙂

TLDR: seeing for how evil is real intent basically.

[dapper bane]

I added some new projects to my resume

[fringe sphinx]

My first reaction would be questioning their maturity (first). Not just for the actions, but the poor judgement of putting it on a resume.

[buoyant seal]

that too. usually obvious sign for a novice content

add to here bad soft skills / communicating skills... and u get combo perceivable easily like for that person before 😏

[dapper bane]

wdy think of new resume ?

[fringe sphinx]

Better than before, should pick a standard template as some spacing/formatting could be improved

[sharp furnace]

hello I would like to start a career in coding but i dont know what to do. honestly its between frontend development or something with Python. C# is also an option. It just i dont know what to do once i understand the fundementals for python or C#. Do anyone would like to tell me what to do because i google them and now i want to hear what anyone here will say

[subtle nacelle]

Hi!, well I'm studying system engineer and I can tell its pretty nice. If you already have the fundamentals I recommend you to try experiment with stuff you like, it can be anything. Also the career have lots of development so u have a grand variety of options to try before you decided the one you like.

but it's more 'bout being curios, in my opinion @sharp furnace

[sick warren]

damn

[dusk flume]

I think your quite dumb, to expect a company to hire you with 1 year of programming experience with only Python.

[harsh river]

there's no need to be rude.

[rugged plume]

Could've phrased that better my guy

[dusk flume]

He started it. He was quite rude not going to lie but okay, sorry.

[hollow axle]

I think I want to go into the software industry however I’m still currently a student I plan to get a job after finishing high school what would you reccomend I learn and do to be able to obtain that job securely?

[dusk flume]

Anyways, I have all my interests in computers and aviation. I've been programming on & off with Python for the past year and I'm purely self taught. I have a basic understanding of the CONCEPTS computer science and I'm interested in CS, professional game development, web development, robotics software development/mainly mechatronics.

I'm actually interested in hearing people STORIES on how they got into either the fields I specified above. For example, if you are a Web developer, what Frameworks did you figure out were not so useful in your scope? Another example, if you are a game developer, what was your first project? What platforms did you port your games to? What tips did you pick off from others?

I know I can find videos and blogs about peoples experiences but it'd be better for me to actively ask questions from people who can answer real-time with up-to-date information. Again, I'm self taught so this actually really helps.

[vapid jay]

the fact u even have to ask that question says a lot about your knowledge about anything. Kids who are incredibly talented get contacted by major companies even before they graduate high school. I wouldn't come to a discord channel that has way more knowledgeable and experienced people with this type of attitude, your embarrassing yourself. If that's the best way you can communicate/ ask a question that a 5second google search can give you, it seems like you're the npc here lol

[dusk flume]

While I'm also no expert, I've heard that a CS degree is a big +. It's quite resourceful if you want to get into big companies as a junior developer with less than 5 years experience. Take a free CS course, I recommend CS50 2024 by Harvard. It's a 20hr video for computer science concepts and basics (I prefer you download and watch it on edX). Being self-taught, edX has really helped me by giving me the opportunity to understand various fields related to tech. Even if I cannot access all of the content for free, there are definitely jems that I would always go back to like four times every year just to revise.

Taking a course like this will help you understand ALL of what jobs and topics are related to the fields you are interested in.

You can then additionally, ask ChatGPTo for jobs that match your interests. This is what I did and I now have an idea of there I want to be later on in the future.

-—————————————————————-

Other than that, I believe there are many people who are more qualified to answer your questions.

-—————————————————————-

[dusk flume]

Now I just need some advice for mine…

[fringe pine]

@fading walrus Hello, this is not really the place to post poetry. This channel is for career discussion.

[dense mesa]

Think of what you'd potentially enjoy doing for work. Find projects online for beginners. Try it and see what happens

There's too much context behind what worked for someone and what didn't. Learn by trying a bunch of stuff, see what works and what doesn't

I haven't done much web dev and basically no game dev so can't comment for those.

Wanted to do quant development, watched/read some tutorials, copied along and didn't learn anything.

Then set myself a goal to do a small project independently, learned way more that way

[near ocean]

not in this channel

[stiff bison]

@near ocean oh sorry wher?

@near ocean ?

[near ocean]

ideally a js server or #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[stiff bison]

thenks

[sand egret]

CS50 2024 from Harvard through edX is an awesome course, I really recommend it. edX offers the opportunity to get a certificate for 201€ but is it worth it to buy? I'd like to get one but do I need to get it if I want to implement it in my resume for future applications?

[vapid jay]

since you are very advanced in python learning new frameworks and databases or anything related will just take you weeks or maximum some months, just advance there by using python as your main language you can get job with that

[near ocean]

1 year's worth of working with python isnt at all advanced, there is basically zero chance of finding a programming job at 17

[fringe sphinx]

Which exact course? There are several cs50's. They're also all available free, the paid version is for the certificate

[sand egret]

Entirety

[dusk flume]

That's interesting. What do you do now?

[fringe sphinx]

AFAIK, all the courses are very good... but you need to be disciplined to go through the entire program and do the practice problems.

Certs for programming jobs aren't terribly useful. Maybe for adjacent jobs, but introductory classes are just introductory: you don't get a SWE for just knowing the basics.

[sand egret]

Yes of course. By the way I was wondering something, on edX it says it is 20h of CS/week for 11 weeks, but their entire course is only 20h long

[dusk flume]

I'm DEFINITELY getting it man. In my currency it's about 36,000 but it is worth it. Imagine how savoury a résumé looks when you include high profile uni courses

[fringe sphinx]

That's 20H of videos. You're going to speedrun it?

[fringe sphinx]

SWE hiring managers won't be impressed that you took an introductory class.

[dusk flume]

True. Very true.

[fringe sphinx]

But, if you're going for an adjacent job like QA or help desk, perhaps

[dusk flume]

💀😂

[fringe sphinx]

Everyone has to start somewhere. Hard to get a SWE interview without a degree and with no xp.

[dusk flume]

What courses do you recommend BillyBobby?

[fringe sphinx]

A Uni degree.

[dusk flume]

I was going to see whether I can probably get a Master of Science in CS and maybe one in electronics

[dusk flume]

What did you take?

[fringe sphinx]

CS Masters

[dusk flume]

Impressive!

[dusk flume]

What did you end up doing? Cybersec?

[fringe sphinx]

Software engineering, mostly data engineering now

[dusk flume]

How long did it take you to finish your CS masters?

[fringe sphinx]

2-3 years, iirc. I finished most of it while working

[dusk flume]

Nice.

[dusk flume]

This tho. This kinda humbled me ngl.

[fringe sphinx]

What's your situation?

[sand egret]

Yes it is worth it in my opinion.

[sand egret]

20H seems like a few to be honest, I expect more hours at first but 20H is fine

[fringe sphinx]

You don't get good at programming by watching videos: you have to do the work. It'll take much longer than 20h

[sand egret]

I'm not trying to be « good » I'm just enjoying CS

[fringe sphinx]

20h is about the amount of lecture time in a 1 semester college course

[dusk flume]

Currently 15. Thinking of venturing out into mechatronics, web dev (full stack), and game development. Kinda crazy. I have like 3 years left before I'm 18. I'll spend those years with my nose in the text books studying hard, after I'll go into uni and see how fast I can speedrun a CS Masters.

I'm pretty undecided

[sand egret]

Also since it's a course yes you get better at watching it I believe, especially if you are a beginner. I'm watching the video to learn more about other computer science topics except of Python coding only, for example: vocabularies

[fringe sphinx]

Forget about speed, just: take math seriously and try to find the 'fun' in math... math isn't just math class

[fringe sphinx]

And, try everything. A little knowledge of a lot of things

[sand egret]

I'm planning to do same, goodluck!

[dusk flume]

Exactly what I was thinking!

I don't even know where I want to work when I aquire all this knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

Even college seniors don't either.

[dusk flume]

Feel like I'm more focused on learning the material than actually figuring out what I'll do with it.

[sand egret]

Don't worry, 3 years (and probably more) should be enough to find your path

[fringe sphinx]

Find the 'fun'. Find what you enjoy. I love my work.

[dusk flume]

That's encouragin

[fringe sphinx]

Many people change majors too. I did, I started as an EE

[dusk flume]

True, and interesting.

I actually always wanted to be a pilot. Figured out I'd try programming.

[dense mesa]

Quant dev

[fringe sphinx]

At 15, I was thinking about going to music school. Go figure

[dusk flume]

Do you enjoy your work like BillyBobby?

[dusk flume]

Cool, what instrument was your favourite?

[fringe sphinx]

All things brass

[dusk flume]

Nice. Im a guitar lover at heart.

[rugged plume]

Same, I do classical guitar for the most part

[dusk flume]

Idk, I just like stringed instruments in general

[fringe sphinx]

For some reason, there's often a connection between musicians and programmers

[sand egret]

As a pianist, hearing classical guitar seems kinda weird, what classical musics do you play?

[dusk flume]

The piano is pretty cool and I'd definitely learn it if I weren't so tied up.

[dusk flume]

THERE IS

[sand egret]

That's true lol, is there an explanation to this?

[fringe sphinx]

No idea, it's been written about a lot tho

[rugged plume]

Mostly Spanish romantic era pieces with a handful of contemporary pices. Things like Francisco Tarrega's pieces for example, a dash of Piazzola etc

[dusk flume]

Don't know. Ive really only used Bandlab to make 5 beats. Never really decided to become a musician.

[fringe sphinx]

One of my favorite bloggers: https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-one-thing-programmers-and-musicians-have-in-common/

[sand egret]

Spanish romantic musics are so beautiful

[fringe sphinx]

oh man, so good, playing now. this would make good coding music

[sand egret]

Do you know "La Comparsita" (I think it's how it is called), it's a Latina music that I really like

[dusk flume]

“musicians become programmers, generally not the other way around, simply because those gigs actually pay the bills.”

😂 true

[sand egret]

It's an old music I think

[rugged plume]

Little bit of Trivia, the old Nokia phone theme is actually a part of Gran Valls by Francisco Tarrega lol

[sand egret]

You should definitely, it's awesome

[dusk flume]

The answer:

Music is a form of self-expression. Many programmers, often to the dismay of corporate managers, try to express themselves through code.

This is especially true for me.

[sand egret]

That makes sense

[fringe sphinx]

You ever see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu1-1zUWU5Q&t=11s

[rugged plume]

16 sec in you'll hear it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sZQ0m5oKLc

[sand egret]

My favorite piani music is La Campanella, especially the drop around 4 minutes into the song. I'm trying to learn it but it's physically so difficult

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, this is from movies....

Many movies, apparently.

[sand egret]

All I know is it's a latina music, the first "Tengo" (iirc) created, studied it a bit in spanish class

[dense mesa]

Yes

[dusk flume]

That's good.

[dusk flume]

So if the world was ending you wouldn't be like "Thank god I don't have to go to word today"?

[sand egret]

I think even if they love their work but the world is ending they will still say that 😭

To be honest, even if I would love my work it would still be great to not work and spend the entire day doing your favorite activities

[fringe sphinx]

Yah. By "love my work", I just mean: on a personal level, I like working on these problems... one reason is that my customers appreciate what I do.

Even if the work isn't "cool", I'm still doing things that people need.

[dusk flume]

Yeah man.

But now I gotta work 😂

Ima sacrifice these years for the uncertain future.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, that's not the way. The way is not grinding. The way is working on problems that you want to work on.

[rare quiver]

can everyone here jus be honest, is python pentesting gonna be a valid career option or is it too ai ez

[fringe sphinx]

Are you asking if cybersecurity will be replaced by AI?

[dusk flume]

Trying to build a text based flight simulator right now. I've been postponing it's development because I've realised that there are alot of things I don't know about Python. Alot of the documentation is not beinner friendly and even if it is, you end up forgetting alot of stuff because of all of the modules, packages, libraries that I need to cover after learning the basics of another module.

I decided to restrategise and just go for it. I think I've been looking at making it so professional that I've gone nowhere.

I thought "Let me draw a diagram outlining the basic component for the file structure." After that I figured it would be good to know Git, (I literally finished Git & Github principles last week). Finished covering Markdown basics yesterday believe it or not.

So I think I'm just left with Python itertools. Oh and I actually program on my phone btw*

[fringe sphinx]

• Programming on your phone: That's reallllly hard to do anything but simple stuff.
• That's a fun project. It'll teach you some important skills, like: breaking a problem into smaller pieces / phases. Can you reduce this problem to a simpler problem?
• If you get stuck, ask for help in #python-discussion
• Sounds like you're on the right path... trying lots of things.

[dusk flume]

It's definitely a bit of a challenge. I haven't even rooted my Android so alot of Bash commands don't even work. Thanks!

[peak halo]

@chilly kernel your message was removed for violating rule 9

[lapis walrus]

How do I stay consistent in my coding journey

[ocean pawn]

this is real as hell i see a combination of math/logic and art/creativity in both so well, makes so much flexibility you can be like a astro physics genius developing rocket algorithms - a mozart, or whatever professional musicians who sees music on a deeper level im not too knowledgeable in music history; but in contrast creativity can so easily scale within skill like simple but hit video games or social apps - generational/decadal musicians like presley, mj, pac, drake, just from knowing whats attracted in the modern day yk

[fleet iris]

good question simple answer --- just code

[fringe sphinx]

Besides ^, variety. Do (practice) is 80%... but also: Read, Watch, Talk to People, etc.

[agile sedge]

Just fall in love with what you do, get addicted😈

[smoky quest]

that's why working on something that interests you or that scratch some itch goes a long way

[bitter raft]

I got a chickfilla interview today

[lost cypress]

Hey guys I am a senior studying cs and I am going to a job conference/career fair soon and I had a resume question

for my projects section. should I be including dates next to each project? like the month and year? or no. I hear different answers to many places and I just cannot figure out what recruiters actually want

[small knoll]

Hi guys am new here

Is it's compulsory to introduce the business here in this server

[peak halo]

No

[near ocean]

I dont, the only dates that matter are work experiences

[buoyant seal]

as a dev that did technical intereviews, i would say i don't care about date of pet projects. Just have them listed
I will see their relevance/quality/dates of when it was git committed during your Github search anyway
(They should observable in public way, at some platform with visible code, and preferably having proper minimal documentation what they are and how to use at least on the level of README.md described)

[lost cypress]

Sounds good thanks

Cause a recruiter at some info session event at my school was looking at me resume getting onto me abt the dates not being there for my projects

[near ocean]

Mixed feelings about recruiters
On one hand i want to believe they know what theyre doing cause its their job
On the other hand, theyre fucking recruiters 🥴

[buoyant seal]

very mixed feelings indeed present around. Some people made funny experiments like renaming their resume (and removing current job mentioned) and tried getting hired into their own company for the position they so much needed new person
They got autorejected by those recruiters because mentioned knowing angular instead of angularjs 😁

[small knoll]

I'm a Shopify store owner guy

I sell fashion and accessories in my dropshipping store and am making a lot of sales from it

If you also want to start Dropshipping business l can mentor and train you for free

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> scam / job / non IT stuff

[small knoll]

Am from Norway bro
So am not a scammer

[peak halo]

@small knoll this channel is about programming jobs. what you're saying is off-topic and sort of against the rules.

[white relic]

recruiters who work for the HR department of a company that hires talent and look for that talent, are ok
third party recruiters who troll the internet looking for people to "connect" with companies they don't work for, skew slimy and can get out of my inbox

[small knoll]

Ohh am sorry

I also want to learn coding and programming so that it will help me with my Dropshipping store

[peak halo]

sounds good. just be sure that you don't try to promote your dropshipping business. because you'd probably get banned.

[small knoll]

I won't do that again

[summer crow]

Can someone tel me how a good cover letter looks like!?

also for the people who aren't that experienced in career i.e., less than 2 years of industry experience , is it important to maintain a linkedin profile!?

[near ocean]

Sure, linkedin is one of the big job boards
You dont lose anything by keeping it updated

[bitter raft]

my chickfilla interview went good

[summer crow]

result wen

[bitter raft]

tomorrow i thinn

[west lily]

Hi guys, quick little question. I am currently in Uni for Comp Sci and looking for good side hustles to go along side full time study and full time work. I have 7 years experience with py, C#, HTML, SQL and other irrelevant languages. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated 🙂

[peak halo]

What is the full time work that you do?

[west lily]

sales assistant, just average student job tbh

[west lily]

been there for longer than I would like to admit but its a stable job that pays my bills at the end of the day

[balmy spade]

Depends on what interests you. Generally, lean into your hobby or hobbies and see which one keeps your interest. Write a book. Get into carpentry. Run classes at your local community education sites. So many choice.

[faint depot]

are there any good admin courses? sick of doing supermarket jobs so want to try to do a few courses just to give proof to companies I can do admin work. btw its only for the short term whilst im at uni

[near ocean]

Do you mean sysadmin? Or general office paperwork jobs

[muted bridge]

Hi! I'm a second-year with pretty big decision to make.

I'm currently double-majoring in CS and Stats, aiming for a career in AI. My CS degree requires 6-7 low-level/theoretical courses, and so far, I am finding them extremely difficult and not too relevant. I’m considering switching to a Computational Data Science degree, which would reduce these low-level courses to 3 and offer more technically relevant classes for AI.

The combination of CS + Stats definitely sounds cooler than DS + Stats. I'm wondering if I should grit my teeth and stick with CS or just make the change.

[vapid jay]

maybe focus mainly on CS and everything about CS and ditch the stats...

[sterile meadow]

it doesnt matter tbh unless you want to start working in something specific that needs that type of skills to be learnt(like applying to an specific position within a specific set of companies), everything can be learned outside university, university just teaches you to learn

[muted bridge]

I don't find stats hard, only CS, and only focusing on CS still leaves the problem of taking 6-7 low-level classes that ultimately don't help much for a career in AI

that and the Computational DS major requires two courses on ML, which is great for me

[vapid jay]

um...look, you might as well do it, or else you'll end up hating yourself for not doing it down the road. Maybe I'll regret not minoring in math, but i fought with my blood and sweat to get the CS degree, and now I sleep peacefully every night feeling victorious

[muted bridge]

how do you do that knowing you’re wasting your time with courses that don’t matter for what you want to do? my university’s program has an almost monumental bias for systems programming with very little room for specialization… it’s pretty hard not to at least consider the option that allows me to specialize

[pine sleet]

usually people dont specialize as an undergraduate

you can, but its also good to have a broad understanding

[muted bridge]

will my chances of success in the AI/ML spectrum be damaged if I make this switch?

[pine sleet]

i dont work in the ai/ml field but from what i hear from those who do, you'll probably want a masters in ai/ml so imo probably do whatever you're doing now, you'll get to specialize in ai a lot more in your graduate studies

[muted bridge]

I likely plan to do that, but I also can’t pretend like these low-level programming courses don’t exist… they are hard, and it’s hard to stay motivated knowing that this won’t help move me forward in ML. In the meantime, these courses can be readily replaced by a course on big data, intro to neural nets, and practical machine learning. This is obviously not enough to specialize, but I like the idea of taking courses that hold some weight in my future

[pine sleet]

its probably just detrimental if you think of these classes as "this class is useless and i'm never going to use it" - if it really was it wouldn't be included in your degree, though i do agree that it may be difficult to stay motivated for a class which you don't see a direct relevance to your interests

[muted bridge]

I truly don’t see the relevancs… I’ve been asked for low-level programs maybe 3-4 times in the ~80 internship applications I’ve sent out, and they mostly demand C++. So why should I learn C, let alone 6 other courses that cover similarly low-level concepts?

[pine sleet]

honestly, i'm a 2nd year student like you studying cs as well so i understand where you're coming from, but i'm trying to be more open minded and objective towards these kinds of classes. i think its hard for us as students to look at it objectively and tell if a class is really going to be relevant or not without hindsight - like i mentioned, i'm sure it's there for a reason so i figure it's best to just go with it

because otherwise it's going to feel like switching to an easier major just to avoid some hard classes

though i'm assuming you can still take those AI/ML courses as electives?

[muted bridge]

I can take 4, but is there a problem with wanting more?

I understand your point about switching to easier majors, but going from CS to Computational DS feels like moving to your neighbor’s house

In my head this is the right move but I don’t know if this is a mistake in the long run. I’ve already decided that AI is for me, but I’m definitely less flexible if I make the switch

[pine sleet]

for one you'll be missing out on a lot of the low level stuff, from what i gather CS undergrad and AI/ML masters is very common so you'll be at a disadvantage there compared to your peers who will have studied low level systems programming and related topics formally. how big of a disadvantage that is, that i don't know.

in the long run though i don't think it's going to be a huge handicap

[night eagle]

Hi, is there anyone who is learning prompt engineering? Or interested in this field?

[dense mesa]

Don't ask to ask, just ask

[night eagle]

I want to know about this field. Like I am interested in ML

[faint depot]

Literally general office work. Just want to do a desk job during uni instead of being in a supermarket

[vapid jay]

me, and don't focus on it as a career, it's a low skill job that employers pay pennies to do

[night eagle]

Even I'm seeing that. I am currently focusing on DSA

[vapid jay]

prompting a chatbot all day is low effort and mainly focused on finetuning existing models

[night eagle]

Alright alright

I am a bit interested in generative AI

But I'm in my 2nd year now. Started learning DSA

[vapid jay]

put that on your resume and apply to internships in your area, employers can give you realtime feedback and doing interviews improves your soft skills/people skills, you will have more opportunities in your third year after you go through the sorting/foundational classes in your major

[night eagle]

Alright 🙂

[dense mesa]

What's the question specifically? Are you interested in learning how to better prompt LLMs? It's different to ML

[serene meteor]

I have been learning about it myself lately. Plus i am enrolled in a course called "agentic and robotic ai" and it includes prompt engineering and ML

[fringe sphinx]

What kind of programs did they request?

[fringe sphinx]

!ban 709698877036429363 Posting cracked software is not allowed in this server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @rugged swift permanently.

[fallen delta]

which software were they posting??

[lament owl]

Why do you care?

[peak halo]

Let's just move on from this

[chrome ledge]

I'm looking for some teammates for some online hackathons, I've been programming in python for almost 5 years. Dm me if you wanna join my team! :))

[vapid jay]

can someone unmute me

[peak halo]

No, and since you spammed, you'll have to wait two extra weeks

[muted bridge]

Can’t remember directly… I do remember some experience with linux being thrown around, and I’m sure that stuff is nice to know, but is it better to know than what I can get if I make the switch?

[hexed raptor]

interesting! I'd like to join your team.

[bitter raft]

they want second interview

[summer crow]

cool

[dense comet]

Hi there! How’s it going?

Are you looking for a software developer? I’d be happy to help with any challenges you’re facing. If you need assistance, please feel free to reach out.
This is my portfolio.

jack-lee.xyz

Thanks!

[harsh river]

!rule advertising

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[dusk flume]

Hello, again. I've been debating quite alot about choosing between either of the following degrees:

• Computer Science
• Electrical Engineering
• Computer Engineering

I have a good understanding of the topics related to EE and CS, but I'd like to talk to someone who [is specialising, has specialised, or will specialise] in a CE degree.

[fringe sphinx]

Besides that: have you looked at the curriculum differences between each? Universities publish the exact classes/requirements needed to achieve each degree, and that's an important part of deciding which degree you want to pursue. Every Uni is different.

Me, I started as a EE and switched to CS

[deft herald]

EE here too. Finished is EE. No ragrats

[dusk flume]

Well, I never really wanted to just have a CS masters. Im basically interested in everything electronic. Im pretty sure I'd never tackle a CS degree and land a job while simultaneously studying for EE. I'm pretty sure CE fits my interests exactly. I am aware of most of the requirements, yes.

[dusk flume]

Cool

[deft herald]

Actually i might have been better suited for CSE or CE, but whatever. Here i am working in software with a EE degree

[dusk flume]

Right now, I don't have much time to start switching. I'd rather spend a month deciding what to do than learn alot of stuff and decide I don't even want to continue with it.

[dusk flume]

Everyone on YouTube is telling me CE is a intersect of CS and EE and that if you choose CE you won't be able to land a job that requires strong software or hardware experience. (Which I'm not gullible enough to believe). I think that if you are dedicated to learning something then you can become really good.

[chrome stratus]

Why is Nvidia CEO saying English is gonna replace coding languages

[deft herald]

Nah. To that i would say choose your electives wisely to tailor your knowledge/experience. Companies couldn't care less if you had CS/CE/EE degree as long as you can prove your competence in whatever they're looking for

[dusk flume]

He likes scaring people ig

[deft herald]

That's called python

[dusk flume]

OK, I'll keep that in mind.

So what exactly do you do @deft herald

If you don't mind me asking*

[harsh river]

in a lot of places, having the degree itself, or any college degree, is enough for a foot in the door

[deft herald]

It's actually on my profile 🙂 Working on 5G modem test automation

[dusk flume]

The door can also close on your foot and that's painful.

[deft herald]

So it actually is a pretty good intersection of EE and CS because for EE, i need to know a lot of the 5G spec and phy layer of the protocol, and for CS because i'm just writing a bunch of code to automate stuff

[harsh river]

the door will close if you can't pitch yourself 🙂

[dusk flume]

Tech giants!!! I'm definitely impressed. That's pretty awsome.

Did you have to learn EE and CS or did you just learn EE?

[deft herald]

It's fun. I'm constantly learning. In the last ~6 years i went from nearly zero knowledge of wireless comm to somewhat of a 5g spec expert on my team

[deft herald]

My degree is EE, but actually during my first job, i took a few courses for free online to fill some gaps of knowledge for CS. I took a DS&A course which was very useful imo

[dusk flume]

Awsome man. In trying to visualise where I'm gonna be and I don't want to regret later on.

[deft herald]

what year are you currently?

[dusk flume]

I'm actually 15.

[deft herald]

ah, ok you got a lot of time 🙂

[dusk flume]

Trying to get some advice so I can utilise these 2.something years and cash out early

[deft herald]

cash out early?

[dusk flume]

Make the knowledge payoff* I want to basically learn as much as I can right now before I get into university.

[deft herald]

Sure. Not a bad idea. Don't lose focus on your core education though

[dusk flume]

I'm good at math. My grades aren't average and I'm sure I'll be able to hack through.

Thanks for telling me about what you do!

[deft herald]

I'm talking about non-stem subjects too though! People underestimate how important being well-spoken and well-written are to obtaining a job

[dusk flume]

Right! I'm doing 5 right now. Thats:

Math + Advanced Maths
English
Geography
Business Studies
Physics

I kind of regret dropping chemistry because I was interested in it but I didn't want to kill myself.

[fringe sphinx]

You get a bachelors first. A masters comes later, you have a long time before that decision comes.

[fringe sphinx]

He didn't exactly say that. Show me the video and I'll explain.

[dusk flume]

I'm happy for that time ngl 😄

[late leaf]

This sounds fascinating

I would love to do more embedded/hardware stuff at my next gig.

[deft herald]

Yeah - I don't do a lot of stuff on the embedded side but there's definitely some opportunity there if i wanted to

[late leaf]

Surely there’s loads of work to be done in setting up automated testing of embedded systems

[deft herald]

With every new iteration of a product, we get/create a test plan of hundreds of new feature line-items that all need to be tested and verified on a regular basis. Often times we're working on 2, 3, 4 different test plans in parallel too. So yeah, the automation needs to be pretty strong

[lavish hull]

is rthere a place i can post about needing coders or not in this server ?

[pine sleet]

we don't allow recruiting in this server

[lavish hull]

ok thanks

[kindred marten]

Say can games in python get me a job eventually

[pine sleet]

making games in python is a good introduction to game development concepts so yes it could

[kindred marten]

Like in python

[pine sleet]

can you elaborate? i don't understand the question

[kindred marten]

Like do game studios use python to create core game mechanics

[pine sleet]

C++ and C# are far more common in the game dev industry, it has a bigger ecosystem surrounding it

[kindred marten]

Ok I learned python first then I will learn c++ or c#

[lilac yoke]

ngl anyone going into CS should really consider doing CE or EE with a minor in CS instead

jobs are rough

[pine sleet]

[fringe sphinx]

? You think there's more CE or EE positions out there than SWE? I'd be interested in something to substantiate that.

[lilac yoke]

oh theres plenty of SWE positions, just such a vast amount of overqualified people going for them

far less competition in CE and EE, masters and doctorate students are getting the "intern web dev" jobs now

[fringe sphinx]

I don't think things are as dire as you're suggesting, anecdotally, the people here who have been on the hunt with a CS degree largely seem to land multiple interviews and offers within a reasonable timeframe.

But local markets do differ

https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/state-of-eng-market-2024

[slow granite]

You would use python if you were going into something like Technical Art.

So using Python to create scripts in Maya

[dusk flume]

This news is so good it almost makes me want to relax. 😂

[solar willow]

hi

[fringe arrow]

hey

[dense mesa]

It's a fairly unqualified statement: if you're interested in software, CS is still the solid choice.

I say this as someone who studied engineering and is helping other CE/EE grads find jobs now

[harsh river]

if SWE is available as a program, i'd say go to SWE if you're interested in software, if not, fallback to CS

[near ocean]

Whats the difference and why would recruiters or hiring managers care

[dusk flume]

See that's the problem. I'm not just interested in software. Im interested in hardware as well. That's why I want to do CE.

Cool, job advice would be really helpful. Right now, I might just forget everything because I can't even apply for a job but I'll remember you. Matter of fact, I'll add you to Google Notes. :)

[harsh river]

CS is heavy on the theoretical, SWE is heavy on the applied.

[near ocean]

im sure this differs from country to country and even university to university

[harsh river]

yes, that's why i said if it's even available, but it's a good rule of thumb

[near ocean]

junior dev interviews dont really touch on the applied stuff tho
how's knowing some django going to help when an interviewer hits you with graph and dp questions

[small knoll]

Hi guys

[harsh river]

i've seen too many CS graduates, bachelors, masters, and PHDs (worst offenders) who will know all the theory and math, but when it comes to writing actual code i'm pretty sure i can teach my 6 year old little sister to write better code

@small knoll i don't do dms, keep all you questions to #python-discussion if they're python related, or any of the offtopic channels if they're not.

[small knoll]

Ohh understood 👌

[near ocean]

so youre saying that teaching the applied stuff is child's play, why not go for CS degree then?

[harsh river]

i'm not saying it's child play, i'm just saying that the knowledge taught in the different programs is different.

[uneven moat]

What is more in demand cs or swe

[harsh river]

depends on the country 😛

[fringe sphinx]

CS and SWE degrees generally lead to the same career paths, and they're largely indistinguishable from a hiring perspective. From what I've seen, the course requirements differ slightly: pick a school and compare the curriculum requirements for each program. In many schools, a SWE degree is just a 'concentration' / specialization of a CS degree. From a hiring perspective: they're largely indistinguishable... SWE as a degree is relatively new, and isn't as common.

[dry yoke]

Is it good to study data science

[peak halo]

Sure

[glossy summit]

Hey I am a fresher and I was focusing on ai due to market trends but I am come to see just learning ai wont get me a good internship let alone a job. I want to get into data stuff. I like devops and cloud and basically pipelining and systems. What all technologies and projects would you recommend?

[hardy mist]

is there a channel where i can ask for help

[peak halo]

There are many; see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[acoustic zephyr]

@vapid jay

[fringe sphinx]

Breadth. Build a strong foundation in computing, programming, and software engineering.

[fringe sphinx]

A few ideas; do something that involves automated testing, building, deploying an app to a cloud stack.

(Or publish a package to pypi)

[fringe sphinx]

If DevOps is interesting, you could learn more about Linux and networking... both important fundamentals to know

[fringe sphinx]

Doing a project that involves databases and data engineering tasks is also very relevant nowadays to a lot of different jobs

[forest snow]

How much does a master python developer get paid?

[fringe sphinx]

Salary questions are unanswerable: software engineers make a wide range of money, and depends on many factors (including country)

software engineering is a well paid field tho.

[forest snow]

Average salary?

[buoyant seal]

Depends on country, language skills, negotiating skills, technical skills and job role

[hollow basin]

Well what about the lowest income? That u can think of rn

[buoyant seal]

Average salary can be found at least if u will specify country and job role

[buoyant seal]

Lowest income in some third world country can easily reach sum around 300$ per month. And that will be literally the sum of payment i started my career in the past

[hollow basin]

That’s like 5000 of the currency in my country 💀

And that’s enough to buy a cheap laptop

[forest snow]

Uhm let's suppose I live in US and I have 2-3 years of experience in python

[buoyant seal]

in third world country, or my origin country... beginning python devs start with salary between 300 to 1000$ per month basically.
300$ the regular people, 1000 the most promising or luckeist ones 😉 600$ i think was average per month with a good hint towards certainly luckier than usual

[buoyant seal]

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/junior-python-developer-salary-SRCH_KO0,23.htm

[forest snow]

Oh nice, but it's in US!

[buoyant seal]

that was for usa

[forest snow]

Yea yea

So should I learn python and shift to Java or C++.

[fringe sphinx]

Do you have or will you be getting a Uni degree?

[forest snow]

Maybe yes.

[fringe sphinx]

Many Uni's start with Python, but you'll also learn other languages over your 4 years.

[forest snow]

Okay!

I have 4-5 months experience in python! Tho😅
Should I continue or learn a new language?

[fringe sphinx]

There's an infinite set of things you could learn. A new language is just one of them. My suggestion would be to do interesting projects with Python rather than learning a new language, but that's just me.

[fringe sphinx]

Another way to put it is: as a beginner, it doesn't matter what you learn, as long as you're learning something (by coding). Therefore, you should do what interests you.

[forest snow]

I love Minecraft and want to be a minecraft server developer. I am 16 rn tho

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, then doing stuff with Minecraft will teach you a lot about how to work with complex systems.

[forest snow]

Yeah that's why I want to shift to Java. Should I?

[fringe sphinx]

Up to you, if you want to work with Minecraft, I guess you'd probably need to... but I've never worked with Minecraft.

[forest snow]

As I have a lot of friends who are developers in big Minecraft server, so I think I could learn Java easily and share codes.

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, there's no wrong answer, as long as you're writing code.

If your school has a robotics team, join that too.

[forest snow]

It does, I will join it then!

[fringe sphinx]

Nice, breadth (learning lots of different topics) is more important than depth (specializing) when you're starting out.

[forest snow]

Thanks for helping !

[turbid cobalt]

Thanks

[plush summit]

This is wild im happy with 50k starter in europe

[near ocean]

50k what and where? 50k euro is quite a lot of money for mediterranean europe

[plush summit]

Germany

[near ocean]

Thats still a pretty good salary outside cities

[plush summit]

Will first work a couple years for a company and then work for myself cuz i like working more

[prisma canyon]

is it still worth it, guys?

[near ocean]

is what worth it

[livid nymph]

I'm currently in the 2nd semester of Software Engineering, and we're using Python in our classes. I spoke with a professor, and he suggested some interesting topics to start studying: Django, APIs, and Databases (MySQL and PostgreSQL). I've briefly looked into Django and MySQL before, but I'm not sure where to begin. What would you recommend I start with?

[untold wyvern]

at first. try to сomplete django girls project)

[buoyant seal]

i could suggest a path like.

• Improve python to basic enough level to operate and being aware about things existing https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/introducing-python-2nd/9781492051374/
• train sqlbolt https://sqlbolt.com/
• get to know what is sql and how to eat it https://www.amazon.com/Manga-Guide-Databases-Mana-Takahashi/dp/1593271905

Now you are ready to proceed to official documentation of an instrument
Go through the official tutorial https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.1/ (from installation to Part 1: Requests and responses, and then go further through its parts)

Now you are ready to operate django at a basic level and consider projects for ideas u wish to implement and practice.

• Make projects https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html that is important part. Give it 90%+ time of effort. Practice makes perfection.

Continue the road further with theory at some point later

• read Code Complete for theory about everything (buffs to code quality in all aspects of coding, from readability to how to write and what exists to be more efficient. it will help being more productive) https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction
• learn unit testing (3x+ times to code quality!) https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#TestDrivenDevelopmentByExample https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#UnitTestingPrinciplesPracticesandPatterns
• go through some Raw SQL training (because half of backend apps is some kind of SQL all the time, and only with raw SQL knowledge you will be able to evade Django ORM problems) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1imX9N1dd8fkmFQIf6IJj5vU8ccuwU3-I/edit?usp=drive_link&ouid=111478826791704020371&rtpof=true&sd=true
• improve your python further too https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Code-Python-Refactor-legacy/dp/1788835832

[fringe sphinx]

Take those as just ideas: there's an infinite set of things you could learn. Learning a backend framework like Django, flask or fastapi is a good idea, as is learning about databases. But there's endless other things you could also learn, such as data skills at Kaggle.com/learn.

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384> technically looks like it is... mm.. Sleeping Agent account for a spammer, 🤔 not a fully real user in the first place.
Its messages were always only spam

[deft plaza]

Hello everyone! I'm new to python and programming in general and just completed my first project! It's a very simple TicTacToe game using Tkinter and would like your advice on where I should go from here to continue learning by doing. Here is a link to the source code, feel free to run it for yourself! https://paste.pythondiscord.com/XQ5A

[astral fable]

Guys do I need physics and chemistry for computer science in my undergrad?

[deft herald]

Depends on the school of course but probably, yes

Those are pretty core classes for any B.S. degree

[opal whale]

hlo

[austere swan]

i think most of the coders will be not needed because of ai till 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5uvDZ8srHA , see this

[dense mesa]

Yes mate, I'm getting fired next year since an 8 year old will do my job 👍

[austere swan]

its not about 8 year old or wot , its about the too much easiness coming in industry imediately

[dense mesa]

100% writing software is very easy and takes no prior planning or decision making

[austere swan]

so , what make you valuable after that !

writing software is most of the thing , if this thing can done by normal people , software enginners have no values after that

second , low code tools are also coming

[dense mesa]

That's what I'm saying mate, they should just get rid of me now tbh

[south rock]

How to learn anything in programming ?

1. Watching tutorials and making same projects or same thing
   Or
2. Reading docs and finding our own way of making that project??? What one should do improve programming???

[near ocean]

you probably shouldnt go into software dev then, whats the point if theyre going to replace you in a couple years

[austere swan]

reading docs looks good and cool , but you have to watch tutorials

[balmy mason]

Got told software engineering doesn't really have a scope.

[south rock]

But why?

[dense mesa]

Shouldn't they just not do software since software engineers are useless? 😕

[balmy mason]

Might adhere to data science since that's what peaks my interest afterwards. [AI and that type of stuff]

[dense mesa]

Pretty different fields

[austere swan]

nevermind , what will going to happend , jsut wondering and telling

[austere swan]

i don't want to dismotivate anyone

[balmy mason]

True.

[dense mesa]

"so , what make you valuable after that !"

[austere swan]

i think data science , is more about understanding , than writing Python code , its very different than we think . I mean you can also train the models without writing a single line of code !( Unless you making your own model )

[austere swan]

saving time of others ! i think ,example if someone is owner of xyz company and wanna push its business online , he probably not doing that by himself , he call some software dev

[dense mesa]

@austere swan thank you for your expert insights, these are very special to me. How many years experience do you have? Hopefully one day I'll have your wisdom

[smoky quest]

why would software engineers be useless?

[austere swan]

currently 1 year of experience , but no job as i am more towards learning

[austere swan]

no , they are not useless , more useful people are coming at rapid pace

resulting in saturation ! but i think saturation is the problem of every field

[balmy mason]

Intriguing.

[dense mesa]

I'm shitposting because this guy has terrible takes

@austere swan have you ever worked as a software engineer

[smoky quest]

Sure. Luckily the market was also growing at the same time, until the recent few months

[austere swan]

everyday , i do that kind of work difference is not doing a job

[dense mesa]

Have you ever been paid to write software. Not as a hobby.

[austere swan]

i think i not tried to be paid , as i am learning

[dense mesa]

Maybe people who actually do this as a job have perspectives that are worth considering 🤔

[austere swan]

what yours?

[dense mesa]

Fire me and replace me with GPT, it's the same thing right 👍

[austere swan]

hmm

[brazen island]

Chiming in a bit, I think strong fundamentals are important either way but most of my colleagues seem to be doing fine outsourcing most things to LLMs

[austere swan]

if agi comes , it breaks everything and i think we are not far from achieving that

[brazen island]

But, based on the code they write there's definitely a ceiling to how far you can take this

[austere swan]

Imagine if tomorrow a new framework for JavaScript or Python is released, making software development easier and addressing issues found in previous frameworks. Would this make feeding data to AI simpler, or would we humans learn faster from AI?

[smoky quest]

It already has issues today with existing languages that aren't in the top 5 of programming languages.
That said, it's a question more appropriate for #data-science-and-ml

[astral fable]

I don’t want engineering I don’t want bachelor of science degree

I wanna get into the business aspect of cyber security

And I really need support for my career

[chrome blaze]

AI is currently developing at a very fast pace. But it is created by people.

[harsh river]

interesting, you've really found your niche huh

what aura?

[vapid jay]

is this pythonic?

 s = (l1.val if l1 else 0) + (l2.val if l2 else 0) + carry

[harsh river]

i would say yes

[vapid jay]

that terrible man

[harsh river]

#python-discussion

[brazen island]

I'd probably make the two things within parentheses variables with descriptive names unless I'm implementing an equation verbatim.

... that being said, this isn't related to career discussion 😄

[vapid jay]

val ? conditional : val is better

OUU SORRY wrong channel LOL

[near ocean]

that makes no sense, value and then question mark? this is career discussion

[near ocean]

everyday ML work is probably hella boring just like other software fields are, no reason for it to be special

[harsh river]

the one thing that does apply in my case is:

the potential it can do its mind boggling
the potential of the stuff we work on is mind boggling, amazing, cray cray

[noble dawn]

Hi people is it advisable to apply to job postings over 100 aplicants or i should look for less than 100 applicants. and is resume tailoring very very very that important

[austere swan]

does it matters who created it or who not , the main thing is , it suprassing humans currently , we should be ready instead of proud of ourselves that we created AI

Currently main thing is how can we improve AI !

AND HOW CAN WE OUTSMART IT !

[harsh river]

resuming tailoring is very very very important yes

[dense mesa]

Guys an AI just flew past my house 🤯

[near ocean]

Have you ever done research? Half of research work is waiting for experiments to finish and the other half is writing reports

[fleet iris]

are freelancing opportunities actually present for someone new with about 1-2years experience only

after weeks i got a client but after discussing the project i accidentally told him i need sometime to learn about that tech as i havent used it before

and then he abandon me 😭 no reply after that

should i lie to client that i know that tech

it was regrading a website with payment gateway i just told i need some time with stripe as i havent used it in my own projects

[peak halo]

1-2 what?

[fleet iris]

year

[peak halo]

generally speaking, successful freelancers are those with many years of experience, who know enough to "make it on their own".

[fleet iris]

hmm but i thought i was so close getting my first gig

first time i was contacted after my application

and i ruined it 😭 i should act like i know everythin lol

but what would happen if did something that is below quality expected by client or something will they raise a complaint against me idk how it works on upwork

[lost glade]

what was it about?

it depends... if its in your scope i think its doable

[rustic jetty]

Hello

[harsh river]

<@&831776746206265384>

[azure heart]

!pban 1270484024170647603 first message spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @raven nova permanently.

[rugged axle]

How does my github looks like ? https://github.com/X1Vi

I have pined the best stuff

[vapid violet]

All of your READMEs could be more descriptive.
Also I dont know GDScript but I saw that you committed your .venv folder in the RAA repo when you should not do that.
My guess is that is similar with GDScripts .import and .godot folders.

[muted bridge]

are README’s that important? I always just write something really basic

[rugged axle]

Good point but readmes directly lead to live links of the projects

that is the entire project itself that is live at the click of a button

[vapid violet]

None of the links work for me, that very well could be on my end though.
The thing with READMEs is that they are essentially the first thing that someone sees when going to the github. Having a short description of the project and a more detailed "how to use" section is important. Also having it formatted nicely instead of just a no grammer single line will may it look way more professional

[vapid violet]

If the point is to advertise your projects and showcase your work: yes
It is the whole judge a book by its cover thing. You can have a super cool project that has clean code but more people will only look at the the title and readme and will not look at the code.
It is different if you are just using github as a code backup and version control service.

[dusk flume]

I never knew sarcasm was that oblivious to people.

That was actually better than any Reddit I ever read 😭

[rare lava]

whats the difference between a software engineer and a software developer

[fringe sphinx]

None

Same with programmer or developer or whatever

[rare lava]

is it like saying i am not a wood worker i am a carpenteer

[fringe sphinx]

lol, yes

[rare lava]

i am trying to decide which path i wanna follow like in terms of what i wanna programm but i cant decide

[fringe sphinx]

What's your current situation?

[rare lava]

the college i go to isnt about programming but they do teach us html and i know some python

i am from greece and the way you get accepted to uni is different. Thinking of trying to get into a university that revolves more around programing this year

[fringe sphinx]

What are your choices? What decision do you have to make now?

[rare lava]

to let aside the uni i am in now to study so i can try and get into another uni thats about computer sience and that stuff

or stay at the uni i am now and try to learn stuff by myself

[fringe sphinx]

What is your major?

(Degree)

[rare lava]

Industrial Managemnt and technology

[fringe sphinx]

Well: there are many good software engineers who don't have CS degrees (having a degree is important tho)

[rare lava]

doesnt really have to do with programming but it has a few classes about computers and that stuff

[dense mesa]

Based

[rare lava]

yeah i know thats why i am considering applying for another university but it isnt as simple

[fringe sphinx]

You can certainly self study and become a good programmer, you'll have to overcome some gaps in your education, but not unsolvable

[fringe sphinx]

I like your plan: hope for the best, but prepare for the alternative

Right now, I'd say: hang out in #python-discussion and you'll learn from a lot of smart people all at different points and backgrounds

Do projects and ask for feedback

[rare lava]

is python a good language to get a job tho?

[fringe sphinx]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-2024

[rare lava]

nevermind

[fringe sphinx]

And https://github.blog/news-insights/octoverse/octoverse-2024/

[rare lava]

its justt in greece then i guess. But you can work remotely i guess

[fringe sphinx]

Python is arguably the most popular language right now. But getting good is more than learning one language.

If you're starting out, getting good at Python is the right first step. Once you're there, you can decide how to specialize or branch out

[rare lava]

yeah pythons syntax is very simple in comparison to others languages

i think my safest bet is to try to get into a uni about that stuff even if i fail though i am pretty confident that i can do it

[deft herald]

Computer Science is going to be a Bachelor's of Science degree anywhere you go. If you want to focus on business then get a degree in business

[tidal vault]

is it better to go for a computer science degree with artificial intelligence or just normal computer science?

in terms of employability in the future

[fringe sphinx]

Probably makes zero difference.

AI is trendy, so schools create programs that sound cool. But in reality, it's just a few courses/electives that you have to take.

[tidal vault]

oh right ok

so not much difference?

[dusk flume]

Interesting, so after the courses/electives do I have to go back to school again and specialise in AI or?

I'm personally not that interested in AI, it's cool but I got interest elsewhere, just figured I'd see how it works *

[tidal vault]

id guess youd want to get work experience learning in an ai company

[fringe sphinx]

The simple way to think of it is: A degree is just a collection of courses you have to take. Some of those courses are electives. A concentration, like AI, preselects some of those electives.

[dusk flume]

Ahhhh thanks guys

[fringe sphinx]

You can also minor in other subjects, like CS with a math minor

(I'm in US, your country may vary)

[spice willow]

are minors valuable to employers?

[dusk flume]

Sounds fun

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, it shows some interest in a field. Math, economics, etc all might be relevant to a particular field

[dusk flume]

I think so. The more you know the better?

[tidal vault]

are placements worth it?

[harsh river]

you'll have to give more info

[dusk flume]

What's that?

[tidal vault]

like a placement year at uni , after 2 years usually a year of work in the industry

[fringe sphinx]

Uk?

[tidal vault]

but you still pay tuition

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, we don't have that in US

[tidal vault]

oh right, really?

[radiant vortex]

yes

100% do it

[tidal vault]

is it hard to find work without that experience when you get out of uni?

[radiant vortex]

it'll certainly make it more difficult, and the majority of students will do a placement year so that's what you'll be up against

You may also be able to get a job afterwards directly from that work experience

[tidal vault]

anyone know how hard it is to get a job in comp sci or specifically ai atm?

[smoky quest]

depends how good you are

[harsh river]

rolls dice: it depends ™️

[tidal vault]

an average graduate with a comp sci degree

[smoky quest]

then you have average chances for a graduate with a comp sci degree

[dusk flume]

I like your website. Good job!

[rugged plume]

The job market is rough especially with big companies doing layoffs at the entry to mid level jobs so there's increased competition for the remaining jobs.

[tidal vault]

what do employers look for outside of degrees in comps ci?

like how do you prove your good

[rugged plume]

Anything they can look up. If you have a Github, blog, or YouTube channel showcasing your projects helps you stand out alot

[smoky quest]

Education, projects and experience are the main factors on a resume.
Though professionalism, self starter and communication are often taken for granted but are impactful

[rugged plume]

Oh yeah, having solid interview/interpersonal skills can make or break you

[tidal vault]

what is a github?

[rugged plume]

One of the reasons how I've done so well in my career is that I have pretty good interview skills

[rugged plume]

GitHub is a developer platform that allows developers to create, store, manage and share their code. It uses Git software, which provides distributed version control of access control, bug tracking, software feature requests, task management, continuous integration, and wikis for every project

[tidal vault]

how so? like what makes you stand out in interviews

[rough wagon]

is this guy trolling

[rugged plume]

Being able to explain semi complex technical topics and break them down especially to a non technical audience is a good example

[harsh river]

these are genuine career questions.

[smoky quest]

imagine having to find a classmate to work on a group project and having conversations with the most hard working student in your class and the most lazy student in your class. You can imagine the difference

[tidal vault]

ok yh makes sense

[smoky quest]

the lazy student can be the smartest, but if you can't trust them to get their shit together, you will still avoid them

Same thing along other dimensions like their temper, communication, etc.

[tidal vault]

do you think a degree equips you with most of the skills youll need to get into a job?

[rugged plume]

How you react to complex problems also is one that helps set you apart. Some people get frustrated, others are curious, and more could give up, while some BS an answer (Don't do that). In most technical interviews I've been in, there's at least one question that's designed to be a curveball to see how you react to something you've never dealt with before

[true harness]

maybe half

[smoky quest]

it's the path of least resistance with the most compensation and opportunities

[tidal vault]

do you think its the most worth it?

[rugged plume]

Depends on how much debt you got into to get the degree imo, but overall its a net benefit to your career in most cases

[smoky quest]

based on which measurement?

[tidal vault]

employability and ability

[near ocean]

yes, go get a degree

[smoky quest]

yeah, worth it

[harsh river]

i don't even have a degree but still say yes, go for it, worth it

[tidal vault]

what did you do then?

[harsh river]

uh, luck, demonstrable skills, luck, OSS contributions, networking etc and did i mention luck?

one more time for good measure, luck! YMMV though

[dusk flume]

Employment is nice and I'm aiming for both employment and self-employment. Trying to figure out what I do after 2 years when it comes to employment. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to start my own game studio tho. I have 5 games already in mind (quite unique). Maybe photography but not as a job just as a hobby. Then Aviatiōn.

Did you know Door Kickers (mobile version) is $4 and it has like 500k downloads on the Playstore? That's 2,000,000 assuming it has always been priced. maybe 1,400,000 after Googles deductions? Idk about taxes for the tho.

[open ivy]

It is interesting that you can't just get a job by lowering your asked wage.

The standard rule of Econ101 that lowering the price increases demand does not work for employees. Strange.

[brazen island]

econ 101 also teaches things like price elasticity of demand 😄

Meaning, lowering a price doesn't have to mean demand increases by a comparable amount. That's probably somehow true in the job market

[open ivy]

Given that wages are such a big part of operating expenses, particulary in tech companies, why is it so inelastic?

[brazen island]

It costs money to onboard people and they also spend company resources, be it time of non tech people as well as hardware, cloud costs, laptops, ...

That's just a guess, it's an interesting question. Where is it coming from?

[grim barn]

I'm learning django, and python in general, I can't figure out why this is happening . I'm following along with a book and it said to open this file which was created by during the set up of the virtual environment. Why is the path to the modules not working?

[true harness]

part of it is just that you don't get to advertise your price until deeper into the interview process, i think

[grim barn]

oh sorry wrong thread

[open ivy]

Bid-ask spread. Why is it so extremely high?

This is a term from the stock market.
Lets say a stock is with $100/share. In order to sell it, you need to offer, say, $99.5/share. To buy it you need to offer $100.5/share. This difference, of 1%, is the bid-ask-spread. It is very low these days in the stock market.

For the job market, it would be reasonable to have, say, a 30%-60% spread. So a worker worth $100000 would constantly be getting offers for $70000 and a company would have to offer them $130000 to poach them.

But a person worth $100000 can't just reduce it to $70000 and get flooded with offers! Instead, they often really struggle for a long time to get a job and then finally get one at the full $100000.

I think the overhead must be that high.

[smoky quest]

there is a cost of lowering wages

[smoky quest]

There is such spread. Companies decide which percentile of the market they want to target and adjust their compensation bands for that

Though if you pay for C players, you won't be able to hire A players

[final ravine]

If you lower wages too much nobody can buy your products

[smoky quest]

I was more thinking in terms of impact on the rest of the team and product when someone does not meet the baseline

[brazen island]

Where I live tech is still very much a sellers' (talent) market

[smoky quest]

probably depends on the market and location as well

[mighty badger]

Great Read. Upcoming Layoffs in Tech 2024 - How to Prepare Efficiently ( and Fast) for your Tech Interviews
https://open.substack.com/pub/naina0405/p/upcoming-layoffs-in-tech-2024-how?r=14q3sp&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

[digital fjord]

Programmers are generally not "fungible" enough for this sort of thinking to work. Any programmer you hire will take weeks to months to get up to speed, and then ideally sticks around for some number of years. Hiring someone under market value, finding out they're incompetent, then having to fire them for underperforming is really really bad (and usually doesn't happen, there are many more steps the employer can take before that exactly for that reason). It's safer to avoid antagonizing the potential good hires your process identifies by trying to nickle-and-dime them. Remember that software is generally some of the highest margin tech out there. It is better to overpay and have a good employee than underpay and end up with a bad employee.

[open ivy]

That makes sense.

It also leads to a growing population of people who have talents and cannot get a job. Since it's so hard to estimate value for newer people.

[digital fjord]

yup, hiring programmers is hard.

[open ivy]

Honestly, I found that those with a long standing passion in programming who cannot get a job make very cool people to be around.

Under one condition: that they don't convert their anger at marginalization toward their peers.

[true harness]

why does having a job change how cool they are

[buoyant seal]

@open ivy so if we account in this equation that onboarding can take up to months... and that company could unsuccefully tried other bad hirings and had to fire them... the cost of finding a good developer can reach up to 20'000 euro for example 😄 (or more. depends on country / proportional to salary of a job role)

[digital fjord]

I mean, 20k euro is kind of nothing compared to saving 10k a year on salary, for example. The key point is that quality over quantity is key here

[open ivy]

Yes. As this happens to more and more fields we could see "music 2.0".

Music was revolutionized by very rejected and marginalized people in the 20th century.

For the 21st century, maybe programming will see a similar thing?

[buoyant seal]

i don't get what you are saying. do you say that programming will be more common for some reason?

[open ivy]

I am saying that the increasing abundance of programmers with years of skill (generally self-taught) who cannot get a job resembles USA 20th century music.

[buoyant seal]

programming is already super common in my origin country. they try to make as much conveyor as possible for that in all educational system and literally promote it by making devs as privileged layer of people in my country. (by allowing them to avoid conscription for example)
Nevertheless it is not working that well, because all they get... is having hundreds/thousands less than intern grade people trying to land any job and not able to enter career in this way.
Majority of them are just for the money and not having aptitude for that, and not having years of effort pursued towards it

The thing is... there is a huge difference in quality between
Person that is just self studying by online courses, and person that dedicated 4-6+ years in university for this path.
and also some differentce that not every person is having alignment to follow this path.
Software development path is taking years and dedication of a lfie. it is just not for everyone

And the more trivial problem => company wish investing only to people that have chances within 1-3 years capacity becoming productive middle grade in skills devs. They aren't interested in investing people who missed years of education and doubtful if will become productive devs.
Such people have alternative paths to follow in IT, but nevertheless u see a problem here

Quality over quantity basically.

Quantity of people following IT out of greed, and without investment of long term quality education is often not able to pursue this path
As company desire only quality, or at least the most promising beginning quality to invest in

[fringe sphinx]

💯, and: it's often really hard to differentiate the quality of engineers pre hiring.

[harsh river]

What country is this?

[open ivy]

I have a long standing passion in the field, driven by a love of creating things.

And I still can't get easily a job because actual industry exp is low.

[fringe sphinx]

I think I'm saying same thing as Darkwind: quality/aptitude varies greatly

[smoky quest]

What's your latest resume?

[buoyant seal]

the country of bears, vodka and balalaika. 😉

[open ivy]

I need to update it, I will submit soon.

I need a better way to prove myself with my side projects. Since that is my main experience.

[harsh river]

Yes, what do you have in mind?

[open ivy]

I don't know. It is a difficult advertising challenge.

[golden jetty]

what could i modify?

also I used chatgpt to generate all the text

[smoky quest]

are these your real projects?

[wanton birch]

Labor shortage strikes again!

[fringe sphinx]

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=1A0qK

[smoky quest]

they are probably new to hiring.
I don't recall a time when I didn't have to review hundreds of applications

[fringe sphinx]

Also: "received"? Probably means: "we posted jobs on linkedin and got a lot of spam".

I've always had recruiters to filter the noise.

(for the record, I'm not: "everything is rosy"... I just reject any exaggeration)

This is a good read, btw: https://issues.org/stem-workforce-shortage-data-hira/

The main point is really that: there's really poor data sources out there to answer the question. Nobody really can answer this.

[smoky quest]

a good recruiter is worth their weight in gold

[golden jetty]

yes, I noticed a lot of inconsistency in skills and summary, I will change almost the entire resume

[smoky quest]

yeah it does feel weird as a resume

[viral peak]

Hello everyone, need some advice for career. I started as a web developer and web designer and been doing it for the past 3 years now. I want to learn something new now and mostly I am interested in is more creative work like animations, game dev ( as it coveres most creative aspects like storytelling, sound design etc. ). But I have sense in myself that in order to be taken more seriously by the overall tech industry / getting more opportunity, I should learn AI / Machine Learning. Had to start from Maths ( Calculas, linear Algebra.... ) and than more on the neutral learning and so on. This is more of a technical path and the former is more of somewhat technical + creative.
I have a desire to contribute something in the technology space and now as the tech is evolving, I do want to seriously learn AI / ML, but also have an interest to go serious to my creative endavours and become good at them.
Note that my goal is to get best / good at either of them, but can't decide which one to choose from.

[smoky quest]

Wait. What makes you think that people who want to hire engineers in gamedev/animation would be looking for people who know AI/ML?

It's like saying that you are trying to hire a contractor to redo your kitchen, so you are looking for a gardener

[viral peak]

No, Here I am talking about two separate things, Getting into AI or getting into GameDev / Animation

[dusk flume]

Okay, while Im also pretty new, I would actually recommend that you don't learn something by forcing yourself to learn it. AI / ML are very complex fields and require alot of mathematics. There is no problem with game Dev. Game Dev already pays alot of money. If you are interested in getting hired by a studio rather than starting your own, then in no way is AI / ML important.

Game development is about creativity, some mathematics, but mostly creativity. You don't need insane AI / ML skills. Most games have simple AI models that don't require you needing a degree in the field.

[smoky quest]

so what's your question?

[viral peak]

Should I get into more creative field or try hard to AI / ML

[dusk flume]

That's interesting. You'll have to decide that path for yourself but people will definitely be here to help you when you choose.

[viral peak]

yep, thats what I am really confused about

[smoky quest]

it's up to you. There aren't objective metrics for that

[viral peak]

yes, but any recommendations

[dusk flume]

@viral peak no one is going to want to be held responsible for putting you in the wrong field. Deciding that is going to be your own cross to carry.

[smoky quest]

no

[viral peak]

what would you guys have done or are doing?

[smoky quest]

I would do what I vibe the most with