career-advice

[eager jungle]

70% of time you will do actual work, and 30% of time you would have to like communicate with the client, cause there will be lots of confusions

[steel kindle]

Yeah I mean that’s software engineering in general

[eager jungle]

That's true, but in jobs, we don't deal with the client, but in freelancing, we are the whole team

[steel kindle]

Oh I do deal with clients, so that might be good practice

[eager jungle]

That's good, if you have experience with clients already, you would have easy time to build your network of customers

[steel kindle]

Not much yet, but I should in a year or so

[eager jungle]

Also, use freelancing websites like upwork to find clients abroad. It would be somewhat easier to find clients there

[steel kindle]

All of the gigs on there seem terrible

[eager jungle]

Try the technical ones, they don't have that much competition, like AI and data science, or data extraction

[steel kindle]

I can’t seem to find anything like that but maybe I need to look harder. Or maybe my standard is too high idk.

[eager jungle]

The categories it displays aren't the same as the jobs that are posted, search in the jobs that being posted, there are lots

[crystal trellis]

hi guys, i wanted to get a gist of what working in open source is like, and wanted to try helping with a few issues in python's github
can someone tell me how i can do that

[brave swallow]

https://github.com/firstcontributions/first-contributions

[delicate bane]

you do. its def based on your network.

[restive vessel]

I started a new discord server that focuses on local Austin, Texas tech talk and careers. We want to focus in-person LC practice and pub crawls. DM me if you want an invite. 👀

[opal elm]

Would knowing basic python and having done a few basic projects done be good enough to get apply for internships?

Or probably maybe after learning SQL, power bi, tablaeu then apply?

[smoky quest]

Are you a student?

[smoky quest]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[opal elm]

Yes i currently have to do 2 years more in my major in Data science still a ways to go but im doing some self learning also since im not able to take classes atm.

Im trying to save up to go back later first

[smoky quest]

The main requirement is to be enrolled as a student. Beyond that, you need to stand out among the sea of applicants.
Each ad for an internship will get thousands of applications from other students.
So make interesting projects to stand out

[opal elm]

Also going to just put this out there im on Academic probation also atm and got suspended and had to wait a semester, So i dont qualify for fafsa or aid since my gpa isnt the best, and thats because i use to major in biology and really hated physics and did poorly.

Thats why i feel like my life is over at the same time but the university is still giving me an opportunity to improve.

[smoky quest]

your life is far from over but you have to be ready to work harder to catch up to the people who aren't in that situation

[crystal trellis]

im a first year student pursuing bachelors in comp sci but i am now confused about what specialization i should opt for? i dont know if i have enough interests in ai or data science
kinda confused about what career path i should choose

[vapid jay]

And here I am learning python for fun

[crystal trellis]

same! i started python-ing almost three years ago, and since then tried 4 more languages but nothing beats my interest for python fr

tried cpp as well, but i dont think i wanna go into the field of game dev

since its majorly used for game dev only

[steel kindle]

no, it's used for almost everything

[crystal trellis]

print("understandable")

[opal elm]

There is soooo many options software eng, data eng, data analysts, data scientist, dev ops eng, cybersecurity, network engineer, front end dev, back end dev, business analyst, product owner, project manager, system admin, linux admin, Database admin, Quality assurance eng and many more idk how people choose these careers or is it all under same umbrella for comp sci/data sci?

[crystal trellis]

i have zero clue blis

[opal elm]

So many damn technologys required also in every job its crazy cuz you dont learn everything at University........?

[crystal trellis]

man they barely be teaching, my first sem course includes python and im really lucky that i studied it cuz if i was doing it for the first time and with the way they teach it at university, aint no way i woulda survived my interest in tech

[steel kindle]

you have to learn a lot of outside of school, I honestly think programming is the easier part of being a SWE

[buoyant seal]

laptop for portable full acess to everything
tablet (with good 20kmah bettery) for reading electronic programming books with complex formatting 😊

[peak halo]

@vapid jay please ask questions such as this in the off-topic channels

[hidden bloom]

Shld i say disadvantaged pupils or pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds on my CV??? : "Tutor multiple disadvantaged pupils (pupils from disadvantaged backgroudns?), helping improve literacy skills & encouraging them to pursue higher education " or

[vapid jay]

Coucou , un français charitable pour m'aider ?

[white relic]

I'd say disadvantaged pupils
Actually I'd say students, because pupils sounds a bit British

[hidden bloom]

Does this sound better: "Encourage pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds to pursue higher educatoin whilst improving their literacy skills "?

[hidden bloom]

i am in england and applying for jobs in england

[white relic]

makes sense

it wasn't a criticism, just an observation

[hidden bloom]

kk does the second sound better

minus the backgrounds i would put disadvantage pupils only

[white relic]

I mean they're kind of different things right

an educational counselor encourages people but doesn't tutor them

[hidden bloom]

i do both, i encourage them to pursue education and help them

[buoyant seal]

i would prefer hearing disadvantaged pupils. makes better association to me that they are probably disabled or smth.
hearing disadvantaged background sounds... too close home for other sort of potential problems to me. (like being poor and etc)

[hidden bloom]

but they aren't disabled they are from disadvantaged backgrounds in specific ..?

[white relic]

honestly i would read both the same way it just sounds wordy

[buoyant seal]

🤷‍♂️ okay. whatever u will write. i voiced a point of view of not native English person from disadvantaged countries working in international teams 😅

[white relic]

You've already spent more time thinking about this than any prospective employer will spend reading it

[hidden bloom]

disadvantaged vs disadvantaged backgorunds?

[hidden bloom]

kk lmao sry

[white relic]

Right. Either way is fine.

[vapid jay]

hey guys!

i did some tutorials on python and got cs50p harvard, and worked on some small projects, if i want to make money from python, what can i do?

[mighty otter]

bro how do i learn python at all im doing these projects im doing like 20 or 30 % of coding my self and then the other 70% is just googling

[hidden bloom]

What sounds better for IT support CV bullet (Help troubleshoot network ensuring optimal performance , or Maintain upkeep of desktop computers, printers, etc throughout library )

[hidden bloom]

also what can i claim to automate ina library IT support position. Like automated desktops to do what exactly?

[vapid jay]

i think this is totally normal

[pine sleet]

What is your educational background? Previous work experience?

[vapid jay]

i did my bachelors in computer science

just graduated in may, and i did an internship in front-end web developement

[pine sleet]

That's great. A bachelor's in CS is definetely something you can leverage. Internship experience is also good, even if it's not directly related to Python.
We do resume reviews here, if you want to post an anonymized version, we can help you incorporate those into it

[vapid jay]

thanks, but i honestly dont feel that the CS degree helped me learn 😦 i almost forget everything!

and what do you mean we do resume reviews?

[pine sleet]

That is unfortunate but at least you have it. Typically people without one have a very tough time breaking in

[pine sleet]

You can post an anonymized version of your resume here (withot your name, phone number, etc) and we help you make it better
A resume is one of the first things an employer will look at when deciding if they should hire you, so it's important for it to be good

[hidden bloom]

I'm a second year university student looking to use this CV to apply to certain tech related mentorship programmes catered to uni students. Pls lmk how u think I can improve this? The application duedate is tomorrow ( so keep that in mind) nothing drastic. I know i should have a projects seciton but the github will link to my github pages which is the only fully fleshed project i have rn (i will get some more in future) but i can't include any rn...

[true harness]

it's only been a few months! you'll need some of those CS fundamentals for passing interviews, as well as software dev in general

[vapid jay]

okay thanks

[vapid jay]

thats so bad, i am so confused of what i need to do 😦

[pine sleet]

I've heard that people only have enough time to look at your resume for 30-60 seconds so chances are they aren't going to click on any links to github or your personal page. You need it to be short and sweet.

[hidden bloom]

right is this not short and sweet enough? idt an entire projects thing is worth it just to display like my shitty personal website - hence why i'm keeping it as a link at the top

[hidden bloom]

I currently have 5 things going on but i can take more because.. they are all flexible around my university studies that will be made clear by the company name that i've taken out
so it's not like they r all multiple shifts and stuff like that, its like u sign up for whatever shifts u can. so that's not the worry...

plus the stuff im applying for will look even better on my resume than what i currently have

its clear once they see the company name - the company is known for being flexible uni employment stuff
temp based

[white relic]

it doesn't really have a compelling narrative though, is the problem

[hidden bloom]

wym? i don't have enough relevant experience to group it together to change it to make it have a narrative to begin with. i was just looking for feedback in terms of the bullets / quick fixes as the application duedate is tom/

[warm tree]

So I have a dilemma

I want to be a data scientist but I also want to make a website project to put on my resume, idk if i should learn python and JavaScript script simultaneously for backend or just learn python

[white relic]

there's just too much there.
You don't need to list all the temporary positions you held and everything you did. Most of it is not relevant. List only the stuff that makes you stand out. Giving tours and attending assemblies should be the first things on the chopping block

You have enough details there to tell a narrative but they are washed out in the irrelevant bits

[hidden bloom]

i felt like i shld fill up one page in a cv tho?

[smoky quest]

you don't have to include links to github as long as you can describe them in details

[hidden bloom]

my github personal website doesn't feel adequate enough tod escribe in detail - and if i try it would make my cv more than one page and thats just fluff imo

[smoky quest]

it doesn't have to be adequate if you don't link to it

[hidden bloom]

well it is adequate enough to be linked but not adequate enough to justify making my cv enough more than one page

[smoky quest]

I will second the opinion that you are doing way too many things.
That can be interpreted as you doing little in each or doing way too much already

[hidden bloom]

they're all flexible jobs i pick my shifts etc. its temp work

[smoky quest]

that proves the point

[hidden bloom]

well i dont have time for a permanent position whilst studying rn ? and i can't change any of that rn im just looking for quick fixes on the cv

[smoky quest]

An employer will not see much experience gained in something done so flexibly

[hidden bloom]

this isn't an employer this isn't a company im applying for its just a mentornship programme where im the mentee

[smoky quest]

There is a grand canyon between having 5 part time activities besides school and a full time job 😉

[hidden bloom]

how am i meant to hold a full time position whilst studying at university? do u recommend part time work like working at mcdonalds probably not part time relevant work to tech would be ideal but im not there yet

[hidden bloom]

fair enough

[smoky quest]

you have 5 concurrent part time jobs. That will be read as you spending at most 1h a week here and there on each, if taken in a generous way

[hidden bloom]

well yes that's what i am doing lol why lie?

[white relic]

Nobody is saying lie

[smoky quest]

Don't lie! That would be bad.
But you should also put yourself in the shoes of an employer

Why would an employer hire someone for a 6th activity when they are still in school? That would not set them up for success nor would one expect them to have enough time for it

Maybe some thing to think about might be around spending more time on your existing activities rather than collecting them like pokemons

[hidden bloom]

im tryna collect better ones so i can drop the current ones i have? im tryna upgrade them?

once i get these better mentornship programme stuff i take out irrelevant stuff etc.

[smoky quest]

it's hard to tell from the resume, as a reviewer

there are also diminishing returns in terms of career.
You won't have the place to keep them all in your resume and it might give the wrong impression

[hidden bloom]

ya i will delete irrelevant ones once i land better relevant ones

[hearty island]

is it a good sign if a hiring manager wants to give me a tour of their facilities after i met them at a career fair?

they were impressed by my capm cert, LSS cert, and my other internship experience

[smoky quest]

sure, why not

[hearty island]

yeah it could lead to a potential interview

i'm actually pretty excited, this is a good outcome for a career fair. i've never been to one before

i was just applying online and getting lucky

[vestal hedge]

sadly lost motivation in code, tried multiply times. but so hard to get into the career.

[modern ore]

dont force yourself doin what you dont want to specially into a career lol

[fair moon]

w

[viral finch]

I mean did you even like to code or were you in just for the money?

[umbral haven]

man this is too relatable. i guess oother people also find it relatable

[hidden bloom]

can someone pls read over this im using it to apply for a tech programme where i'd be the mentee. https://collabedit.com/mptx2
here
ignore the random dashes in some of the words idk why it does that i just copied it from word

https://paste.pythondiscord.com/AORQ here instaed of that site i put it in a bin

[hidden bloom]

"Personally, the mentor-mentee relationship is extremely valuable as I learn best from people as opposed to reading something online since it is a lot more interactive and overall interesting. I am not only learning but simultaneously developing a rewarding social connection. However, since the stu-dent to professor ratio is unbalanced, I find that said relationships are rare in university settings. But since it’s important to me I have proactively sought out said relation-ship: through starting my position as a re-search assistant studying Liquid state Ma-chines under Dr. " WAIT grammar question
I didn't use the colon properly right?
what am I meant to put there instead?
nothing?

[hidden bloom]

GPT gave me this: "GPT gave me this : "The mentor-mentee relationship holds great personal value for me, as I have found that I learn most effectively through interpersonal interactions rather than solely relying on online resources. Such interactions are not only interactive but also inherently engaging. Furthermore, they afford me the opportunity to cultivate meaningful social connections. Unfortunately, due to the imbalanced student-to-professor ratio commonly observed in university settings, such relationships can be rather scarce. Nevertheless, recognizing their significance in my educational journey, I have taken proactive steps to establish such a relationship. To this end, I initiated my role as a research assistant under the guidance of Dr. ..., where I am currently engaged in the study of Liquid State Machines."
is it immoral to use it? lol will the recruiter check find out?? probably not?

[near ocean]

This isnt the channel for grammar questions and it would be unethical to use chatgpt answers yes

[hidden bloom]

i paste in my original para, it rewords it to sound more formal, and then i re edit it back to make sure it sounds good / like myself / and I fix its issues - is that unethical?

[near ocean]

Yes

[potent ice]

Hello!!!

I wanna learn python,what are some good resources

that I can use for python and python full stack

[pine sleet]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[lapis wind]

Honestly for writing emails and paragraphs, etc... I just use grammarly

Obviously you still need to come up with wording and your opinions, but it gives good suggestions and helps make sure your sentence is coherent

[hearty island]

i just had a 5 minute phone interview for a supply chain project manager position

it was more like a phone pre screening than anything

they basically just asked stuff straight off my resume

[deft herald]

Maybe not unetheical, but I'd say it's definitely a bad habit you're getting yourself into.

This is like the whole thing about how people who learned to drive in the last 10 years don't know how to get anywhere without navigation on their phone.
In the same way, today's generation won't know how to write a formal email/essay/whatever without using ChatGPT

[hidden bloom]

yeah thats why i strayed away from it originally but then i kept spamming for advise and ppl told me to use GPT

So as a result, I am not really sure what to do? How do I improve my writing, must I go to the library and take out a grammatical book and just read a ton more?

But do you not learn by doing? This is why I am trying to just write instead? I do not really have time to read all those books?

But once I am done writing I inevitebly have to edit all the grammatical mistakes.. and this is where I find I get lost and need help.

[deft herald]

Yeah i guess it can be something that comes with practice. Both reading and writing

If you're second year at university, then maybe look into taking some extra writing classes

Who knows, they may even have one geared toward technical career paths

[young quarry]

how long will it take to make for me to make money coding

[true harness]

e) not enough information

[deft herald]

Anywhere from 6 months to 5 years

[true harness]

it could be less and it could be more. there's really no way to know without more info

[glacial snow]

Hello, I am looking for Python developer. The project title Web Automation Solution using Python, AutoIt, and Chrome

Summary: The primary aim is to automate repetitive web-based tasks utilizing AutoIt scripting, Chrome extensions, and Python - with minimal manual intervention.

Previous knowledge of all 3 areas is preferred.

Skills: AutoIT, Python, Google Chrome.

If you are interested and you can do this project perfectly, pls dm me.

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 6 9 Job ads are not allowed here.

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[glacial snow]

Which channel should I post job?

Hi

[fringe sphinx]

There is no channel for job posting or recruiting. It's just one of the rules of this discord (no hiring, no recruiting, etc).

[hidden bloom]

listing all these ides is useless right? shld i keep one or none?

[true harness]

i would remove all of them. it's like if you're a journalist and you're saying you can use ms word or something

[peak halo]

That's the best IDE. You can make important parts of the code bigger.

[near ocean]

why all of them? keep git, docker, jira, they check boxes

[hidden bloom]

i mean the ide's

[buoyant seal]

it is like if you're journalist and you're saying u can use a pen 😅

[near ocean]

hm from the IDEs i would keep VS cause i've seen it in requirements

[true harness]

I meant all the IDEs. though if mentioned in the reqs I would add them in at the end probably

[near ocean]

yea reading is hard, you know how it be for us old people

[fringe sphinx]

It's not just whether it's useless, it's whether it dilutes the point you want to the reader. Looking at those skills alone, it doesn't really tell me anything about which ones you really know vs which ones you've just used once.

[hidden bloom]

am i meant to add (profficent)?

[fringe sphinx]

I'd have to see the rest of the resume. Even the language, for instance. For instance, I read that and I doubt you really know Python, Java C++ and SQL at a strong level of competency.

I see a lot of college students who write down SQL yet can't answer basic questions.

[hidden bloom]

fair enough

[fringe sphinx]

That's why I look at the most recent job to figure out what you actually know

[hidden bloom]

but most do so i feel like i look weaker if i dont include at least some? due to the fact that it's frequent to list them in applications..

so r u saying its best to list like one lol

[fringe sphinx]

I guess I'm just saying there's a tradeoff... if you list a lot of things, I have to look for clues elsewhere in the resume.

If you list a few things, I assume some greater level of depth.

[hidden bloom]

i don't feel like i listed a lot. once i take out the ides i feel like this is a reasonable amount

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, nothing there is abnormal. With or without the IDEs, doesn't really matter to me.... If you're just graduating college, I assume you don't have much depth in anything, which is OK.

But (for instance) if you happen to be very strong at C++ and wanted to tailor to those roles, you could emphasize that by de-emphasizing Java (for instance)

(ie: mention on VScode and VS, but not netbeans), but this is probs a microoptimization.

[cerulean tinsel]

How is the market for cs?

[unique ember]

what cs mean?

?

[pine sleet]

Computer science

[unique ember]

thanks

[gritty rivet]

The job market for software engineers? In what country?

[unique ember]

I think it's good, but it requires a lot of experience

[cerulean tinsel]

America

[gritty rivet]

In the short term and compared to the overall job market, the situation in tech right now is pretty bad, especially at the entry level. There will be better days.

But the US still has higher salaries then almost anywhere for SWEs, and it's not that there are zero job openings

[cerulean tinsel]

casual nexus' at it's finest

rather 'their' finest

[delicate bane]

a recent convo i was privy to, "we can hire many different profiles but we cant hire any juniors atm" 💀

[cerulean tinsel]

a fear of mine truly in light

how does one become experienced without opportunities? Would you recommend creating open source programs to show ability?

[hearty island]

open source contributions are helpful, personal projects are helpful

[terse rain]

hi bros

bro, i have not found any freelaner work on data science, is that true that there's just a few freelances jobs?

[deft herald]

bro, freelancing is tough because your competition is very experienced devs living in super low cost of living areas charging $5/hr

[terse rain]

me included, i'm currently living in brazil. Are u a senior programmer?

[deft herald]

btw one random response to a question does not warrant a friend request 😄

[deft herald]

I'm a señor programmer

[terse rain]

oh, sorry. 🥹 Then, what about the web market?

[deft herald]

What do you mean by the web market?

[terse rain]

web development market, if it's hard to get freelancer from this?

[smoky quest]

it's a relative metric.
It's more difficult if you have less experience, less network, lives in a HCOL and less education. It's easier on the opposite side

[deft herald]

My statement was a blanket statement for all freelance gigs 🙂 You're better off trying to get a contract or full time position somewhere

[terse rain]

i'm majoring in math, i have a little bit of time to spend in a full time job

i gotta work as a freelancer. I have got some of freelancer jobs but it was in web market

[deft herald]

Go for an internship then

Work local unrelated part time jobs during the school session, internships during the off-season

[terse rain]

i said i live in brazil, povert and no many vancancies in my region, even in a intership.

and u? Are u employed?

[deft herald]

Yes i am employed

[radiant pine]

[terse rain]

data science?

[deft herald]

no

[terse rain]

web development?

[deft herald]

No. you wanna keep guessing till you get it right or do you want me to tell you? lol

[terse rain]

tell me then. xD

[deft herald]

I do software test automation for a hardware company

[terse rain]

i'm a beginner, are u graduated either? what do you think about mathematicians in IT market?

[deft herald]

Specifically in the area of wireless communication in 5G

[deft herald]

Yes i graduated in 2011. I think someone working in IT with a math degree would be a waste. Data science seems like an appropriate fit though

[terse rain]

what's your degree?

[terse rain]

but it's deep learning is full of math.

[deft herald]

Yeah that's why I think it'd be a good fit 🙂

My degree is in electrical engineering btw

[terse rain]

cool.

why did you switch to programming?

[deft herald]

It's just what I was good at. EE is still very applicable to my job though cause the domain is wireless comm still

[terse rain]

is that a highpayed job? if this question doesn't bothers you

[deft herald]

It's not bad for my area. I make around 180-200k after bonuses. I also have 12 years exp at this point

[terse rain]

this is too much even for a programmer

[deft herald]

If I lived in, say California, it would not be enough

[deft herald]

Lol ok

[terse rain]

what the hell, it's too expensive the cost of live?

[terse rain]

i wish i was earning this a year. i would be the most richest person in my state

[deft herald]

Median home price in the city where I work is $1.3 mil

[deft herald]

We live in very different places. I make a pretty average income for someone with my education and experience

[terse rain]

was you born in US?

[deft herald]

Yes. I actually have an immediate coworker from Brazil though. In fact most of my coworkers aren't us citizens

[terse rain]

good for him, this guy must be rich in brazil. if this guy is earning your income he would be richer than politicians in brazil

[deft herald]

But alas, he's not living in Brazil

Economies vary drastically by location

[terse rain]

yes. I just wanna get a job overseas

[unique ember]

where do you live?

[gritty rivet]

He said it a few times... Brazil

[steel kindle]

that's definitely enough in CA

[deft herald]

For a family of 6? Questionable

[smoky quest]

there are families with various number of children living in the bay area

[pine sleet]

who wouldve thunk

[steel kindle]

makong less than 200k lol

[terse rain]

you're a big daddy

[vast totem]

hello guys,one question what will be the career path for a data analyst? i already started learning python

[gritty rivet]

At minimum you'll also want to learn SQL, relevant math, a BI/visualization tool like Tableau.

https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/data-analytics-roadmap/

[hidden bloom]

my github is named internetslave do u think this will be bad to send to employers lol

[fringe sphinx]

Yes. And clean up your social media.

Employers certainly google candidates (at least those who make it past the screen). Don't have questionable stuff on your discord, facebook, twitter, etc.

[hidden bloom]

is having an email of flyingpig on my cv bad as well? must i create a proffessional email account..? with my real name. why can't i use a pseudonym?

[hidden bloom]

my github can still be a pseudonym right it does not have to be my real name..? what if i change it to wishingdragons - is that too immature

[fringe sphinx]

It can be. But, most people create a separate personal / professional email for it.

And I'd suggest doing that. Just cleaner and sends the message of maturity vs immaturity. But that's just my opinion.

[hidden bloom]

so a professional email with my real name. and my github shld have my real name..

[fringe sphinx]

For email, I'd suggest a professional / real name email. For github, very few people use their real name even professionally, so that's less important. But, you don't want an employer jumping from your github to your personal social media (ie: edgelord messages on discord/twitter)

[hidden bloom]

i dont have social media that is not an issue

[hidden bloom]

so like i could use flyingpig for my github username? or is that too immature

[fringe sphinx]

Seems fine to me.

It seems somewhat whimsical... when pigs fly and all that. Nothing inappropriate.

[hidden bloom]

its fine to have it linked in my cv when its a name like that tho?

[near ocean]

Its fine, as long as its not cringe or a slur

[fringe sphinx]

(and a google search doesn't lead to other questionable stuff)

[gritty rivet]

To me, having a more neutral and professional username is ideal, but also not critically important

[dark adder]

hello, what should I learn to get a job in python?

[peak halo]

You don't get a job for knowing Python. You get a job doing something that may involve some amount of python. Like web development

If you're currently a beginner, you'll have to view getting a job as a programmer as a long term goal

[dark adder]

I am a student

[peak halo]

You DMed me asking what job I have. I work as a computational linguist, which is to say that I'm an AI developer who focuses on language technology.

what are you studying?

[dark adder]

computer engineering

[peak halo]

have you applied for internships?

[dark adder]

that's a nice job. Yes I did.

[peak halo]

in your country, is "computer engineering" about hardware or software?

[dark adder]

Well, the "computer engineering" means that we study both: while learning how to use linux, we write C programs and play with logic gates.

In the same time, we play with electronic devices, learn about communication protocols and study algorithms. After that we study formal languages and automata, play with parallel algorithms and write some opengl apps to also get a grasp of game development. Eventually, we play with postresql, flask, rpc and we also write some kernel modules.

If you did not decided what you want to do, basically you know a bit of anything, that solves nobody's problems, and you get to be a support guy, because when you want to apply the SOLID principles in an C++ internship, the senior tells you that he does not like the fact that your parser generates and accepts all the words of the grammar, while he needs only to generate some of them, and accept some of them. You can actually get fired if you do too much work, and if you study too much, this can also ruin your whole career before it starts.

quick tip: while the industry uses ubuntu, do not try to be the smart guy and use arch. You will suffer.

[white relic]

Wow, this sounds like a lot tbh

I guess my degree was more electronics focused but still

[dark adder]

indeed it is, and because you spend the time on all that, you can't really become a full stack, because you were busy studying formal things that mess up your reasoning and became a perfectionist in a world of bugs, thus lose the good job in C++.

[white relic]

You sound a little bitter

[tepid vortex]

The best way to get experience is not to have any

[dark adder]

that's just the dissapointment I live in after some years of studying, being broke and trying to get some money to have what to eat

indeed, trying to be righteous and not cheat on any exams is foolish, because then you get lots of wisdom as a beginner. When you get a job, you realise that all the people around you are fools, they realise that you are much smarter, and you basically get blocked by them.

so being wise without experience is, unfortunately, foolish.

I gues that it is true what Solomon states, there is a time for anything in this world. Don't mess this up.

so after lots of hardships I faced on getting this degree, I got signed up on codecademy to learn web development. Is the whole life like this? 😆

[tepid vortex]

I did the brute force way of getting a job

[dark adder]

what did you got?

[tepid vortex]

I work as a (linux) devops engineer

[true harness]

how is Linux devops different from normal devops

[dark adder]

oh, that's the job I would got after promotion.

[tepid vortex]

I ignore companies that want me to run windows

A big no

[white relic]

I don't know you, but if your response to losing an internship is to decide that your entire education was a wash and you might as well cheat, it might not be only your perfectionism that lost you the opportunity

[tepid vortex]

The thing is, you only need one company to give you a chance

[dark adder]

what do you mean?

[tepid vortex]

From there you can talk about "actual" experience

[dark adder]

I cannot say that was worthless, but while anybody around me made money, I chose to study. Because of this choice I got where I am. This is what I regret.

[white relic]

And you are calling them fools and acting like you have nothing to learn from them, which is a bad look for an internship

[dark adder]

well, I cannot say that. You can always learn something from anyone.

[tepid vortex]

May I ask what your ways are of getting in contact with potential companies?

[dark adder]

I am only speaking from an objective point of view

[true harness]

this doesn't seem very objective

[dark adder]

strictly applying to opening jobs, usually.

[tepid vortex]

Okay cool

When applying to jobs there are sometimes systems that filter through applications automatically. Called ATS

You can increase the amount of introductions with a real person by calling the person responsible for handeling applications

Most of the time you can find the phone number near the application itself

[true harness]

I am confused by the situation. are you still a student?

[dark adder]

yep, final year.

[dark adder]

it is not the first time I get this advice, but I find it a bit too agressive.

[tepid vortex]

I understand

You could also do a more attractive approach, by creating a linkedin profile and with that attract recruiters

[dark adder]

thank you for your advice.

[dark adder]

unfortunately, it does not. I only tried to present the situation the best way I could.

[true harness]

why the doom and gloom then? you're still in school, so there's still time to improve and get a job

[true harness]

this is not really a great attitude. they have more experience, and you can't replicate that by simply studying, but that doesn't mean studying is not important. I would also advise not cheating

[dark adder]

Indeed. there are many places for improvement, and all the experiences that I get can only help me 😁 . Considering the fact that being humble is the most important, I actually got a gift with that layoff, not a punishment

[true harness]

that is certainly one way to think about it. why were you laid off?

[dark adder]

The point here is only to understand that is it worth to study as long as you can use what you studied.

[dark adder]

because the priority queue orders based on a specific criteria, and I got the wrong criteria in my queue 😆

[turbid bobcat]

I disagree with this. Idk anyone who cheated on exams and is successful today.

[dark adder]

well, if you cheat on some exams and use that time to learn other things... Or if you join the crowd of cheaters...

[true harness]

I'm not sure what you mean by that

[turbid bobcat]

Look, you're either able to produce value or not. You can't fool the market forever.

[dark adder]

you're right. But you can either learn by yourself, or go to work, get paid and learn, at the market requirements.

[dark adder]

It is worthless to have a good, modular and beautiful code, if you need something messy, fast and unreliable.

[turbid bobcat]

I feel like the type of person that cheats on exams is also the type of person that is too lazy to learn, at any stage.

[true harness]

yes, internships are very useful, but they aren't mutually exclusive with passing exams without cheating

[true harness]

and you were fired for writing good code? there must be something else, I don't believe it

[turbid bobcat]

I know someone who paid people to write his thesis. That person did not get a job because that person is unable to actually do the job

And you can tell the difference, especially in these technical areas. Just by looking at someone talk or write a bit of code.

[dark adder]

Well, at the job you only do one thing, not 5 or 6 different things, that you probably never use anyway. So what's the point of learning something you would not use anyway?

[modest oriole]

Free Palestine

Free Palestine

[turbid bobcat]

That's very shortsighted now isn't it.

[dark adder]

Why do you need to know how the CMOS transistor works, why the bipolar transistor was replaced, or the CPU architecture, if you write javascript?

[modest oriole]

Free Palestine

[turbid bobcat]

Because, it's not about the knowledge itself mate, I mean, it is ofc, but it's more than that. It's about shaping your brain to solve problems.

[modest oriole]

Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine

[dark adder]

why do you write kernel modules, if you use ansible at work?

[true harness]

you don't. school provides a broad base to work off of so you can get into any of these fields if you wanted

[pine sleet]

Please don't spam this channel

[turbid bobcat]

The person who made the effort, has shaped the brain better and is in front of the person who did not

[dark adder]

ok, instead of learning those things, go to work and help the society.

[modest oriole]

Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine

[white relic]

<@&831776746206265384>

[turbid bobcat]

What.

[dark adder]

and what would that person get in the line of work? respect or envy? 😁

[turbid bobcat]

That person is able to solve more problems, is able to think better, and provides more valuem

[sand patio]

@modest oriole Don't spam here - if you keep on doing so, it'll be a mute.

[true harness]

why did you get fired though. it certainly wasn't for writing good code. if you don't fix that, you're just going to be fired again once you get a new job

[dark adder]

because the senior gave me advice after advice without asking for them. Eventually, at code review, he told me to do this and that, and in some cases he was right and I listened, but in some, I did not, and in others, I did better.

when I did not, I explained to him why he was wrong. Telling the senior that he is wrong, you having no experience, is wrong, even if you are right.

[true harness]

most engineers I worked with are very happy to get constructive criticism. and it's kind of their job to mentor you when you're an intern

[white relic]

It doesn't really sound like you have taken that lesson about humility to heart

[smoky quest]

It's all in the attitude and if you have a growth mindset.
Whether you tell someone "you are wrong and I am going to continue doing it my way" or trying to be curious about it and understand them.
From a company's perspective, that senior engineer was trying to coach you and guide you.

[dark adder]

not in this case, unfortunately. He told me that for some project, when the client asked to change the order of some tags in the messages, the project extended with 3 months. When I told him that in this case the only work you have to do is to change 2 lines of code, his mind was blown and he acknowledged that the code was well written.

[dark adder]

hmm, I try to be as open to suggestions as possible. When I did not listened to his advice, I explained the reasoning behind the decision that I made, thus proving that his advice was wrong. Thus, a helpful response would have been to explain why my reasoning is wrong. I did not got that.

[dark adder]

hmm, why do you say that?

[smoky quest]

In general:

• If there is a core disagreement, you should escalate it. Worst case that other person tell you to follow the orders
• Some people are very argumentative and people get tired of it.
• At the end of the day, you didn't listen to what someone what telling you to do and that probably put you in the category of someone not coachable

[tepid vortex]

If you use a system where you can add a comment, you can comment on what you think. That way if there are problems and you get the blame, you can proof that you addressed the problem. Then when this is ignored by your senior, you can rest your mind and do what they say. They might or might not be right but in any case that they are wrong you have proof that it was ignored. In the end, it is their system.

[dark adder]

you are perfectly right.

[turbid bobcat]

If someone tells me to do something that's really a bad idea, and I complain and make good points, and I get told to do it anyway

I just kinda do it and enjoy the upcoming disaster

[dark adder]

because I was unable to do that, I got out.

[turbid bobcat]

The I told you so is always satisfying

[dark adder]

and instead of being a c++ developer, I configure dns servers and routers.

[true harness]

didn't you say you got laid off?

[dark adder]

an internship is basically a fixed-term contract. Being laid off means basically not getting the job.

[turbid bobcat]

In the end, you're not the one getting rich out of it. If management doesn't listen, let them learn the lesson.

[dark adder]

because at the end of the period, I got some papers of termination...

[smoky quest]

not getting a return offer is very different from being fired.
But yeah, internships are a good way to test is someone is worth hiring

[dark adder]

😁

[true harness]

not getting a return offer just means you weren't that good. being fired means you were really bad

[white relic]

You are still focused on how you were technically right and not on how your attitude may have had a negative effect on your relationship with the people who you were supposed to be working with.

[tepid vortex]

You can be right and be cool either way

[dark adder]

I focussed a lot of time on developing those technicalities, thus those were much more important to me than aspects like forgiveness and friendship. I understand now that all that matter is to get the job done, and I should not care about anything else than myself when it comes to disagreements. I am not going to lose another position because I was right again.

[white relic]

Yeah, see, caring only about yourself in a disagreement is the opposite of humility

[dark adder]

Well, I will never care about the greater good anymore, but only about my own good. If this means that someone will do fishy things around me, and if I speak I would get fired, but if I keep my mouth shut I stay in that position, I am fine by it. I am not going to lose again from doing what I think is right.

[pine sleet]

sounds like a great way to land yourself in some trouble further down the road

[turbid bobcat]

You don't really need humility tho, you can be super ego driven and still get along pretty well.

I feel like empathy and a well formed theory of mind are the two crucial factors.

[dark adder]

the root of humility is doing what is right. I was unable to do this, because I thought that what I do is right, and thus I was proud. When others tell me I will listen, even if I am convinced that they are wrong.

well, I study judaism.

[smoky quest]

We are assuming you are right because we only hear one side of the discussion.
To be fair, there are plenty of new grads who think they know it all and miss plenty of points

[dark adder]

Well, the reality shows that I was wrong, and going back from where we started: learn at the job, not by yourself.

[smoky quest]

It's encouraged to do active listening, having discussions around disagreements and empathy to try to understand what is the other person trying to optimize for within which constraints

[dark adder]

I always tried to do that. Well, if I would get another oportunity I know what I have to do now.

[true harness]

studying in school and on the job teach you different things

[smoky quest]

so what would you do if that situation was to happen again?

[dark adder]

just do what I am told to

[true harness]

that's sad. you should stand up for your idea, but properly

[dark adder]

no questions asked, no arguing

[dark adder]

I am never going to lose another job for that.

[turbid bobcat]

I'd raise my concern, present my point but not prolong any argumentation cuz it's not productive.

[pine sleet]

if you lose your job for properly conveying your ideas you probably dodged a bullet there anyway

[turbid bobcat]

Let the mistake go through, and see who's right. There's always the possibility of being wrong.

[true harness]

you shouldn't say "my idea is better because my coworkers are fools", you should say, "what about this idea of mine? I think it might address these concerns ..."

[dark adder]

well, I did not say that they are fools and I am smart to them, I proved why I was right, and why he was wrong. This i believe got him upset.

[turbid bobcat]

But this is also a good point. There's always the possibility that this company has a bad work culture.

[pine sleet]

most companies with a good work environment will encourage the free exchange of ideas and constructive criticism in a respectful manner

[dark adder]

I can only say that what I thought while I was there, and what scared me and pushed me to be so fanatic about those principles, is true and is seen in their products as well. One app of theirs just got an update and is full of bugs.

anyway, I always enjoyed playing with linux, and I was always curious about the sysadmin job. Ansible seems a nice thing, and now I learn hacking on an internal app wriiten in php, because they do not give me access to the database.

[smoky quest]

that would be taking the wrong lessons

[dark adder]

while they tell me to create 100 routes by copy pasting them into their app, I write a selenium script that does that for me, thus developing my Da'at. Maybe that "layoff" was actually a gift and I do not apreciate what G-d gave me, and for that I must be punished, unless I do teshuvah.

what do you think, @white relic , @true harness , @tepid vortex

I can only say that since then, I got such a strong connection with Hashem, even if I do not keep the shabbath. Maybe this is what it had to happen. I only have to accept what He decides for me, because who can you trust in this world besides Him?

[next pasture]

Oi, anybody have an opinion on datacamp?

[dark adder]

If that period of time was just a test of integrity and I passed, this means that I would not have to be in the same situation ever again. Then, no need to argue or to question.

[smoky quest]

it wasn't a test of integrity. It was a test of communication and collaboration

[dark adder]

And it is mostly true on this job. My boss here is fine, he even rides a motorcycle and I like to play with their servers

[smoky quest]

The fact you are seeing it as you versus the other is already a flag

[dark adder]

what do you mean, "me versus the other"?

[smoky quest]

It means the discussions became about your solution versus your senior's solution which then became who is right and who is wrong

[dark adder]

Hmm, what approach would be ideal?

[turbid bobcat]

I reached late stage at a company in San Francisco a couple weeks back or something. Must've been the first time I was actually sad it didn't work out, they were impeccable all the way through. Even paying me for my time during the interview. Still bummed out about it :/

[smoky quest]

the ideal situation would be to not make it about your ego and attaching your ego to be right/wrong.
The ideal situation would be to make it about different options and paths, each with a different set of trade offs. Only sith deal in absolute. Taking that approach will often more than not result in a new solution that could consider both point of views and end up being even better. But that does require some form of collaboration and active listening, as well as some humility.

[dark adder]

hmm, I believe that this is what teams do in the brainstorming sessions?

[smoky quest]

it can happen anytime, not just in brainstorming sessions

[dark adder]

thank you, I did not considered this. Usually I was convinced that each member of the team have to do his job, and help each other if they get stuck, but actually working together at a solution, shaping each other and finding a solution together is not something I ever considered. Maybe this is why is good to cheat, this way you learn to work with somebody on a solution

[white relic]

I think your idea of humility is rooted in scraping before authority to get what you want, rather than a high esteem for other people and consideration for their experience, opinions and feelings.

[smoky quest]

I would also encourage you to have more curiosity.
Your senior has been longer at writing code professionally than you at school. And some folks might even be coding and working since before you were born.
While experience does not equate authority, it does mean they have seen a lot of things, including what has worked and what didn't work.

And the take away here is not to always shut up, but to be able to collaborate.
There is however something about "disagree and commit" where at some point, shit needs to get done

[fringe sphinx]

This thread reminds me of an engineer who worked with us years ago who still lists stuff like: ‘fixed bugs caused by poor coding practices’ and other backhanded comments in his LinkedIn about us. His comments about previous and subsequent employers are equally arrogant.

And while that engineer was talented, he was insufferable to work with.

I am compelled to quote his greatness, Bill Nye: “ Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't.”

[dark adder]

I see

[turbid bobcat]

I am very conflicted about this thread. In the end, Toni is here reflecting on his attitude and listening to people. I don't agree with a lot of what he said, especially about the stuff about education, but like, in the end it's perfectly possible that not even him knows what happened.

For real, I once saw a recording of me during a meeting (they recorded it as documentation), and it was uncanny to me because what I recall is so much different from what I was seeing, it was my words, but my mind wasn't emphasizing certain aspects as much, certain aspects of my tone of voice were completely different from what I had in my memory.

And that's normal, because when we are talking we are not just talking, we are dealing with our own emotions and with the context of our own minds.

[dark adder]

Well, eventually anything that happens to us is what it should, and the faster we accept the reality, the better for us. I don't really care anymore about who is right and who is wrong, who cheats and who is righteous, because at the end of the day I have to eat. I am not here to teach somebody anything. I just wanted to use my knowledge and construct on top of it, but eventually I can not even use that knowledge at the job, and that knowledge was the source of my ego that got me to lose the position. So if after all the efforts I get this, and others who don't even try get the job, it is clear to me that I don't even diserve to live anymore.

I should have became a drug dealer when I got the chance, I don't know why I chose to go back to school

[final moon]

How can I get gsoc?

[dark adder]

hmm, you need to find a project and apply for it, i believe.

[eager jungle]

I think, you are missing the whole point here,

Just because you feel your throat dry, dosent mean you can drink petroleum and quench your thirst.

Accepting reality dosent fix the situation, ponder upon the problem, and find a better solution, thats acceptable by you and other party.

Empathy is very important when you communicate with a human being, you should understand thier situation as much as possible, "read the room".

You are not a robot, which is used to tell others what is right and what is wrong. Have some empathy, understand the other person.

And just because you were rejected by a single company, dosent mean you have to d*i.

There are thousands of billions of atoms in this universe, but only you have the power to be alive and think for yourself. Believe in yourself, and improve your communication, I'm sure you will find the way thats full filling to you.

[final moon]

How can I do that? I'm absolute beginner

[true harness]

gsoc tells you all you need to know. read the words on the website

[eager jungle]

Your emotional state is in a bad condition now. Take some break, freshen up your mind

[dark adder]

you are mostly right. the thing is that I start to not care anymore, about companies, programming, or living. I live only because I am not dead, and I am not the one who chose when I die, unfortunately.

[final moon]

US moment

[dark adder]

US?

[final moon]

Us as in we both are in similar condition

[dark adder]

this is happening for some time already, it is already normal for me. The kabbalah helped me not to lose the path, but there are too many mentions about the afterworld

converting to judaism was one option, to fresh start the life, get a new soul

[dark adder]

what happend to you?

[eager jungle]

I don't know why, you act like you have lived your life completely. Just because a "single" company rejected you, you will drop your life?

This will be the truth, whatever you follow, one who doesn't believe that good things happen in thier life even after a soul-crushing event, will live his life in misery.

[final moon]

Life isn't enjoyable anymore! College is completely draining me!

[dark adder]

it's not about a single company that rejected me, there are much more events that I am not going to describe here.

[dark adder]

you will figure it out. you don't live to enjoy, because enjoyment is only a reward.

[eager jungle]

Whatever has happened, the only way for you is to believe that it will become better again, and it will become better again.

You can use the resources in this server and get even better job.

[turbid bobcat]

Life is amazing, just that simple cold beer and a fat pizza on Friday night while watching an old movie. I love seeing the sunset on occasion. And also the stars. The other day I saw a meteorite, Venus and Jupiter. Been trying to see the milky way, it's so gorgeous on the pictures.

[snow moon]

Anyone advance in python and thinks they can help me out with something pretty basic I’ve been struggling on

[pine sleet]

Feel free to open a post in #1035199133436354600

[eager jungle]

You can approach #❓｜how-to-get-help for getting people to help you

[snow moon]

Thanks you lads

[dark adder]

I would like to, but now I have a job, and monday I have an interview for a cybersecurity internship. I like python and lots of other things. Like I said, kabbalah keeps me on the right track. Without it, many questions and problems would rise, but I got lots of answers without even asking the questions. At the end of the day, I considered that getting the divine knowledge was like a reward for all that I did. Thing is that anyone gets exactly what needs to get. The only problem is, when you think you have to get something else 😁

[dark adder]

I would like to help you

[eager jungle]

The correct thing, that you need to ask is, "how to do well in a cybersecurity interview" we have lots of experienced people here, use thier wisdom.

[final moon]

True words!!

Anyone doing Codeforces here?

[eager jungle]

You can ask in off-topic channels if anyone is interested

[pine sleet]

Hi, we don't allow advertising in this server

[pliant bobcat]

Hello there guys I think I am beginning to nearly finish the data analytics course . What is the fastest way to prepare for landing on entry level data analysis position with someone who finished the certificate , have published an ML paper in IEEE with some what decent deep learning practical and theoritical knowledge? As for the portofolio what kind of projects do I need to do to prove my caliber in data analysis?

[true harness]

this isn't allowed here, but also, how is this business model supposed to work? why should i pay you for you to pay "resume worded" instead of paying them myself

[ivory compass]

What is considered a mature startup?

[fringe sphinx]

Very subjective term, doesn’t really mean anything.

I’d usually think series B or later, in terms of funding rounds / traditional vc backed

[crisp stream]

!cban 786640273785749516 Spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @frank rampart permanently.

[shrewd badge]

https://www.roblox.com/games/14205763054/Canvas
Made this with python

[pliant bobcat]

Is it too late to start internships after getting by bachelor degree?

[hidden bloom]

if my professional email only has my last name initial is that okay?

like ex: firstname.initialof [e-mail]

my [e-mail] is taken

what about
first name initial.lastname
cus the other ones don't work

what if my lastname is long and i only put the first four letters of it?

[white relic]

Any combo of initials and shortenings of your name are fine, as are digits and nicknames that you would go by in a professional environment

[hidden bloom]

8.11 is my full name (numbers are the number of letters )isn't that too long?

[white relic]

you're over thinking this

[hidden bloom]

but i feel like having my full name makes it clear who i am so i shld

[white relic]

pick a handle you like that doesn't make you sound like a 11 year old edgelord

[hidden bloom]

i had flyingpig but ppl said thats unprofessional.. and to create a separate email with my real name.

so i shld have 2 emails: personal, professional (for cv stuff)

[white relic]

That's certainly common

you're still overthinking it

[hidden bloom]

k i will have two emails then

[white relic]

my main email is my initials plus the first three hex digits of the sha256 sum of my full name

[hidden bloom]

ur professional email is just ur initials?

[white relic]

doesn't mean anything to anyone else but it's unique and professional

[hidden bloom]

thot u were meant to have at least ur full first name

[white relic]

it's just an email address

[hidden bloom]

thats what i was sayinggg but apparently flyingpig is bad

[white relic]

flyingpig is a little bit borderline because some people might find it immature (I wouldn't care, but you don't necessarily know who's looking at your application, it might give a bad impression)

nobody is going to think that your initials make you immature

unless they accidentally spell a bad word I guess and then you would want to go with something else

Getting your own domain and email provider is also worth considering

[hidden bloom]

am broke

[white relic]

Like $5/month or so but point taken

[hidden bloom]

student

[white relic]

As in you're no longer a student?

Internships are for students

[vapid jay]

There are free domains (for a year), on register.it
Of get one of those .me, .xyz they're dirty cheap

[hidden bloom]

the only last for a year tho

i don't understand y having ur own domain is important?

[white relic]

It isn't

It's an option if you don't like any of the other available free options

[vapid jay]

Since I'm stingy, I built my website with free stuff
But then noticed that recruiters don't bother opening it

[hidden bloom]

u mean with github pages?

[pliant bobcat]

Is there any chance of me being able to land entry position data analysis with just data analysis portfolio projects from kaggle dataset and a published ML paper in IEEE and no work experience?

Sorry for late reply @white relic

[white relic]

What's your degree?

Sounds respectable

[pliant bobcat]

Bachelor degree in CS

[pliant bobcat]

You think so?

[white relic]

I'd give you a fair chance but why data analyst specifically?

[pliant bobcat]

For the passion I loved the feeling of getting insights from data and observing their patterns and what things led to make the training bad , I also felt very comfortable with keras when doing data processing and building models . My main goal was wanting to become a data scientist but firstly I needed to be good at data analysis

I also love the math logic of ML architectures and statistics

[white relic]

Data analysis is kind of a broad category and often requires some domain knowledge, which you may be able to pick up on the job, but if you're aiming for a particular industry maybe you could improve your chances by doing some projects that show you know something about the domain

my employer is an electronics manufacturer. The people we hire for data analysis have EE/materials/physics backgrounds

[pliant bobcat]

Oh ... Well I could pick in learning finance analysis domain (My knowledge is very low on finance so I might see a coursera course covering intro to finance)

[pliant bobcat]

Oh so I really need to have a domain knowledge ... It's true because one needs to understand the attributes of the dataset he is dealing with to know how to get insights from it

The datasets on google data analyrics course seem to have not represented real world datasets

[white relic]

I don't really know anything about finance

[pliant bobcat]

What do you think about Business intelligence :D?

I read that is a popular domain in data analysis

[mint oracle]

How can i find which job is good for me?

I have no idea abiut that i am just pursing my graduation and planing to go for master next yr but still no idea about my career

[white relic]

Also not really my field, but the best way to find out would be to look at available openings at companies you might want to work for and see who they're hiring or trying to hire

[white relic]

That's really such a subjective question. Money, interest, location, ability...

[mint oracle]

and from last 1year i didn't do lot of development mostly solved leetcode problems

[white relic]

If you're not trying to get any particular kind of career, you can spread a broad net. Apply to all kinds of different companies and see what comes back that looks interesting

All kinds of companies need software engineers

[mint oracle]

I want a field where i can get job easily and with decent money

[white relic]

You're a cs student, right?

[mint oracle]

Yeah,
But I want to be a robotics enginner but i found this field is expensive and interesting but never tried!

[pliant bobcat]

@white relic Thank you very much trentj you are awesome :D

[vapid jay]

anyone here know js?

I mean familiar with discord APIs and js

[normal sapphire]

Hi All,

I just joined this group and it's a pleasure to be here with you all. I am a 35-year-old male, born and raised overseas and living in the US since 2011. I have been working in one of the major IT Storage corporations as TSE ( Technical Support Engineer ) since mid-2018. My education includes a Bachelor's in CS, and an Associate Degree in Business management.

After 5+ years in support, I feel that, although it could be something I can do for another 30 years, this position is not the best place for optimizing career growth. It could be because of the company I am in, it could be for the current economy, it could be me also ( although I never had a manager complaining about my performances ). I am quite disappointed because I really love working with my team (well, at least the ones I talk to more often) and my manager, but I realized that upper management is trying to keep as many people as possible as front-line TSEs, because that's the BU needs, rather than seriously focusing on employees growth.

I do not have a particular passion, and I am looking just to improve my income to better provide for my family. I recently started to read about Python and I would like to learn it ( at least decently ) as I see it as a valuable skill that can be desirable in many jobs.

If someone would like to give me a piece of advice, I'd be grateful.

Thank you.

[fringe sphinx]

Leetcode is not good practice for SWEing. It’s just practice for interviews: you have do to real projects to get good, and to learn the field/what you like

[mint oracle]

Idk what can i do i am just preparing for my master and do leetcode so that helps me in future

[fringe sphinx]

Grinding leetcode is like practicing juggling: it might impress a few people but it has little practical use.

[mint oracle]

I am just moving without knowing in which directions i need to move sometimes i feel exhausted

[fringe sphinx]

I’m suggesting: stop leetcode. Work on real projects: I am sure you’ll find something that interests you.

But if I grinded leetcode, I’d feel the same: it’s exhausting and pointless

[mint oracle]

what do u mean by real projects?

[fringe sphinx]

Have you built a game? A website with a Python backend? Done any computer vision? How about an AI or Ml projects

Contributed to an open source project?

[mint oracle]

Well I created ai and web projects

[fringe sphinx]

Taken a Kaggle challenge?

[mint oracle]

I also particapted in few kaggle challenge few yrs ago

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, so maybe try contributing to a open source project: it’s another level of difficulty and engineering experience

https://github.com/readme/guides/first-oss-contribution

[mint oracle]

but it takes time i need to revise concept and how can i find which field is good for me ?

[fringe sphinx]

I think only by doing a project in that field do you really learn.

[mint oracle]

I want to learn robitics but after my job I have only 3yrs(1yr for graduation+2yrMaster) left i want to strong my base/foundation

so i can get good job

[fringe sphinx]

That sounds great, that’s plenty of time to read about the field, learn technologies related to the field, etc

Even better is contributing to an OSS project relevant in the field: it takes a lot of time, but 3 years is a great timeframe

[mint oracle]

May be 1stopen source contribution is difficult!

Byy You'r a good men!

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, but it’s like learning programming for the first time: it’s hard because you haven’t done it yet.

[rancid idol]

is python ok in gamedev?

[hearty island]

C++, no? pygame is cool

[white relic]

What kind of advice are you looking for?
With your education and experience I expect you would not find it too hard to make a lateral move to a more SWE focused role or get a comparable job at another employer with better upward mobility. Spruce up your résumé and start applying

[normal sapphire]

@white relic Thanks for the feedback. I was wondering what I could do outside support. I am surprised that a huge company like the one I am now does not really allow me to move outside support. I understand that they might prefer people with experience for different roles, but after all, when I started in support I had zero real-world experience and I was able to learn and became an asset.

I am a little hesitant about moving outside right now because of the current economy. I feel that I am appreciated enough to be outside the list of people they might cut if there is another wave of layoffs in the future.

So as of right now, I was thinking of getting familiar with Python, at least as a beginner, and gaining a little advantage for a future move ( internally or externally ).

[near ocean]

The practical use of leetcode is getting you through tech interviews

It doesnt have to be leetcode but if you dont have an income already you probably shouldnt stop practicing small contained programming puzzles

Even if you do have a job, unless you have tons of years of experience, you should still brush up on leetcode type problems

[fringe sphinx]

See my previous comment and Ops comment, to put it in context.

I wasn’t saying ‘don’t do leetcode’. I was saying excessive leetcode is bad: it’s not practice for anything but interviews.

[vapid jay]

It really depends on who's hiring
Many don't care about your school background but want to see your projects

[glacial breach]

Hey everyone,

I'm currently working at a large company in a customer facing role. Since I got hired at this company in March I've had a lead developer at this company as my mentor. He thinks I'm ready to internally apply to entry level python developer jobs at this company.

I was hoping to have some help structuring my resume since I've never applied internally before.

I currently have it structure in the following manner:

• Current role (minimal detail since they are able to see my results internally)

• Previous technical role (lots of detail)

• 2nd most recent technical role (less detail)

• 3rd most recent job which was not technical

[gritty rivet]

I did desktop support / help desk for some years until I switched to my current developer role in my 40s. It can be done.

Personally I did the Nucamp Backend bootcamp and it was a big help for me. But the fact that you already have a CS degree makes me think you may not need it.

So my main advice would be to look at the job market and decide what kind of role you might want to target. Based on that, identify the skills you need to add. Then work towards completing a couple of projects that demonstrate those skills. Then you can update your resume, start networking and applying for jobs

[gritty rivet]

A resume is a complete package so it's hard to give advice in the abstract. You can share anonymized screenshots here and multiple people will usually have feedback.

A lot depends on the country and the role so you'll want more feedback then you'll get here, but it's a start

[normal sapphire]

@gritty rivet thank you for taking the time, I truly appreciate it. It gives me hope as I am just starting to lern about programming as I saw one of my co-worker moving from tech support to SE ( granted that this person had more exposure to programming than me ) and he's super happy where he is now.

[glacial breach]

Okay thanks, I'll get something down and then come back. Appreciate the response.

[gritty rivet]

If you're starting from zero but think you want to be writing software full time, I'd say think in terms of a 1-2 year timeline. If you haven't started programming yet though, that's kind of a big commitment... Maybe you'll hate it and maybe you'll love it. So I'd say just start exploring for now (both in terms of the possibilities of the job market and what you're really interested in doing in practice) and see how it feels

[normal sapphire]

@gritty rivet Understood, and I am glad I won't be considered "too old" if I start enjoying it and try to break in

[gritty rivet]

If you don't mind the possibility of working under a team lead who is in their early 20s and probably earning more than you, potential employers won't mind either. In fact your previous years of professional experience will be an asset

If you need a six figure salary to start with because you have a family or whatever, that does make a major career shift more challenging but not impossible

[normal sapphire]

For sure I don't mind it sir. I came in this Country at 22 and restarted my education ( I was in law school back home ). My one and only goal is to make more to provide to my family.

Six figure is not a starting salary in software development right? ( Considering I live in New England ).

[gritty rivet]

Not generally, but if your skills are extremely solid it could be. If you were in the Boston area with a year or two of experience then low six figures would be pretty reasonable

[normal sapphire]

Understood, I am in MA in fact and I was thinking something like that. Moreover, since I have 5 and a half years of experience in IT Storage, maybe there it is a way for me to learn python and still be in this field but in a much better position. What do you think about this idea?

[gritty rivet]

It's a good idea to explore, I don't really know. It wouldn't surprise me if Python is a useful skill in your field and could help you qualify for better roles without a major career shift

[normal sapphire]

I think it would be an easier transition. Learning Python can definitely be a solid asset for me regardless what's next: staying in IT storage, trying for SE, etc.

Thanks again for the time sir!

[gilded vine]

hi

@ivory sluice @neat grove @rare sand How did the idea of ​​making the computer come from and what did its form and method of operation come from?

[ivory sluice]

you can try asking in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval but please don't ping random users or ones you find on the sidebar

[gilded vine]

hh kk

[muted bridge]

I keep applying to summer internships but I haven't been hearing back. I applied to some of these internships a month ago. Is this normal? Or is there something else I should do to ensure a reply?

[hearty island]

usually if that happens, it might be bc of the resume. can you post an anonymized copy?

[muted bridge]

sure

@hearty island

do they really just not reply when you're underqualified

[hearty island]

idk fam i would not say jane street is under qualified

[muted bridge]

i'm a uni freshman so I don't even think they're reading my resume

[hearty island]

people have landed roles as a freshman, you just need persistence and good projects

[gritty rivet]

Yes, I'd say job applications in general get no response at all more often than not. And if you do get a rejection it's usually long after you forgot you even applied. Better get used to it. 😅

[muted bridge]

how many internships should I be looking into, then?

[hearty island]

about 250-500 applications should do the trick, and i have 4 internships

[muted bridge]

god

I've only applied to about 30, so should I just be spamming applications throughout the rest of the year if I want internships?

[hearty island]

yes and tailor your resume to fit the position

[fringe sphinx]

Wow, did you really have that many apps? You are indeed a motivated individual.

[hearty island]

thanks man

[muted bridge]

are you in uni?

[hearty island]

yeah, i'm a senior. but i'm a biz analytics student, not comp sci

[muted bridge]

I'm finding it really difficult to manage university life, personal projects, leetcode practice, internship apps, and grades all at once. i really don't get much free time

[hearty island]

i couldn't cut it in comp sci the pressure was just way too much, so i switched my major to biz analytics

and uh i over compensated by doing 4 internships lol for the school i go to

[muted bridge]

how do I respond to this? I don't know if they mean hourly wage, monthly, or for the duration of the whole internship

[hearty island]

is 0 a possible option, if it's not i'd stick with like $15-$20

i'm getting like $23 for my current internship and i got $20 at my last one

[muted bridge]

the internship is listed as 45-55/hr

I can definitely go down a bit more but I wonder if undervaluing myself that much will seem desperate

[hearty island]

oh, in that case, just stick with the rate provided. some internships don't give you a range

[dawn leaf]

i always answer n/a

[thorn bronze]

Hello guys, im about to finish highschool and my long term goal is to work at a deep learning research lab. But seeing that i need a phd, i decided that i will start in data analysis, bc it has more entry level opotunities and it also uses thing i will use in DL, so i can gain experiencie.
Do you think this aproach is good or should i take another aproach

[dawn leaf]

salary negotiation is for after the job offer

[thorn bronze]

Sorry if i made mistakes, english is not my native language

[hearty island]

sometimes they'll demand a number out of you

[dawn leaf]

i never give one, when they do that I ask them the posted range and then say we can discuss later in the process

if the range they give is totally incompatible drop out

[hearty island]

yeah haha i tried that in an interview for a company called world wide tech for project management. they ghosted me 😦

big oof

[dawn leaf]

negotiating like this is totally standard, and you dont want to work for a company that holds it against you

[hearty island]

i was like i'd prefer to share that information later on in the process, once we find out that we're a good fit for each other

[dawn leaf]

they definitely underpay

[hearty island]

yeah. shady ass company to pull what they did. probably not a good fit

it just makes me angry because that was in like september or maybe even august and i could've squared a full time job away

[fringe sphinx]

Oh I know wwt. Might know some people there

[hearty island]

damn everyone else i've talked to they had no idea what company i was talking abt. anyways, probably completely fluffed my lines

[mortal wedge]

It's rough. Normally I recommend people write in "Negotiable" but some application forms require a NUMBER. If you're unemployed and would happily accept anything, there's definitely reason to just put in 0 which signals that you want to negotiate/discuss. (As opposed to actually wanting to work for free).

That or you can do the research in the industry/at that company to determine the likely range they have for the position and try to put a desired salary in the upper range of that. But you're not always able to do that for a variety of reasons.

[mortal wedge]

As a caveat to what I just mentioned, most recruiters are generally mostly upfront about what range they have for the position and will respond when asked. Even if they tighten it a bit, you'll at least get the ballpark, because if you're shooting for 150k and they're offering 50k going onwards is just a waste of everybody's time

[mortal wedge]

Well, it would certainly get you into general machine learning projects. It's a reasonable basis for getting into a deep learning research lab, but the best way to do that is probably by staying in academia if you're able to.

[mortal wedge]

Aside from duration of the whole internship/monthly, they should be able to figure it out from context. Nobody wants $40 for a year of work. Honestly, if this is just an internship this may just be an oversight that they brought over from a previous firm. Hourly sounds like the best way to respond to this.

[mortal wedge]

There's two schools of thoughts to this. One is blasting your resume to all in sundry and two is tailoring your resume to specific positions you really want. I suggest a blend between the two approaches. If you have your eye on a couple of really good fits then tailor your resume to the position and you have a good shot at getting a callback. But especially if it's your first major position and/or you don't have a lot of relevant experience, I'd have a few different resume templates that you can select based off of the type of company you're spamming apps to.

As a quick and dirty example, you may have a resume that's more tailored towards data science jobs and one that's tailored to more traditional SWE jobs. That gives you customization without too much effort.

[muted bridge]

have you considered undergraduate research?

[muted bridge]

what if I can't really tailor my resume? I have some additional activities, but I wouldn't really see myself placing them over what's already on my resume

[hearty island]

tailoring your resume should be able to cut your apps by around 50, from my own experience

damnit. ripplematch matched me with FIGMA and i didn't see the email because i fucking blocked them. the one time ripplematch actually does something useful

[mortal wedge]

Tailoring a resume is partly about it looking like you're a better fit for the position but also for getting around the ATS and HR. For an ATS (applicant tracking system) they do something kind of silly which is look for keyword matches for what they determine to be hard skill requirements. So if a position is called "Senior Software Engineer" it's helpful to have that somewhere on your resume and if they mention cloud computing more than once then that phrase should definitely appear on your resume. HR and an ATS do not have the technical expertise to really fully parse or understand the terminology of the job/industry, so if they're asking for data science and you only mention that you've done data analysis, you're less likely to get a callback than if you had just said "data science". You want to use terminology the same way that the job posting has. So this could just be a matter of rewording to use their language.

[mortal wedge]

I applied to a major worldwide organization and didn't get a response for three weeks, only to talk to a recruiter a couple days ago letting me know that they're still early in the process and they're evaluating me, lol

Companies move at different paces, some companies move pretty fast some REALLY take their time. I once had a month between accepting a job and actually starting because the company was trying to, uh, for lack of a better term "get their shit together"

[hearty island]

actually idk if i'm allowed to say that i applied there... um um government hahahahaa

[mortal wedge]

They often just don't reply at all. It takes time/energy to reply and another unfortunate aspect is that sometimes people get really upset when they get rejected from a job so the company just chooses not to engage.

Another aspect is that sometimes they have their prime candidate but are keeping backup candidates around in case that prime candidate fails. So you might be really low on the totem pole but they may not want to reject you in case their other applicants fall through.

If there's a position you really care about and they have some sort of career page/candidate home that tracks application progress then that will often be updated even if you don't get any sort of concillatory email

You bring up another good good point. Some positions that have to deal with security clearances will often take a lot of time to conduct their analysis/background checks. I would even hypothesize (but can't confirm because I'm not in that industry) that for some positions they'd even want to do at least a cursory check before interviewing you in case there's some secure info they would need to share as part of the hiring process. (But that's just a guess)

That makes sense. And uh, I believe they recommend that you only say you have applied for a government position with the DoD

[hearty island]

the last i ever heard from them was "we are sending your resume to the hiring manager"

[mortal wedge]

That's a good sign! That means you got past HR/the ATS

I'm not exactly sure how that process works if it's divergent from most corporations though...

Either way, until you have an offer letter in hand, keep applying/job seeking

[hearty island]

i will be interning at this big medicaid company pretty soon. hope i get a full time offer from them

[mortal wedge]

You very well may!

[hearty island]

and i went to my school's career fair a while ago and this hiring manager from there wants to give me a tour of the facilities this thursday. it's a supply chain/logistics company. so things are looking up. i think the closer i am to my graduation date, the more chances i have

(i graduate may 2024)

[mortal wedge]

Yup. That's awesome! I promise you he wouldn't bother doing that if he didn't think you had some promise

Unlike other positions like internal recruiters, hiring managers have lots of responsibilities that do not revolve around hiring someone and often want to get back to whatever it is they normally do. They're the biggest question mark in the hiring process. Everything else up until then is fairly similar/standard, generally speaking, but it's like a bench trial. Hard to know what will make them tick or what will guide them into a decision.

[hearty island]

so far i've been getting an interview or two every month

[mortal wedge]

That's excellent! It means that you have a pretty solid resume and youre applying for relevant postings. That's further than a lot of people get.

Most companies are generally only interviewing the like... top 10% of candidates

THat number may differ depending on various factors, but it's still a significant minority

[hearty island]

yeah i'm kinda surprised by my success rate, but i think it comes down to my internships that i kept putting myself to apply to. i kinda prioritized them really hard

i think someone with a 3.5 gpa and 2-3 internships is going to get selected over a 4.0 student with none

[mortal wedge]

Am I correct in guessing that you're looking for your first major non-internship role?

Internships definitely put you a step above most grads. The problem with your first career job is that everyone's qualifications look more or less the same. Academic coursework that is difficult to verify the claims within. But internships say that you have some experience working in the industry so they can assume that your training will be quicker

[hearty island]

yep, this is my first full time role that i'm looking for

[mortal wedge]

This is, in all likelihood, the most you'll have to hustle for a position in your lifetime. But that being said, sounds like you're doing really well thus far, keep it up!

[hearty island]

thank you! i've honestly gotten numb to the rejections by this point haha

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, that's one of the hardest parts. Coping with the depression that comes from the rejections, lol. But it's just par for the course, there's so many entry level applicants out there.

All I can say is that for your second job onwards you won't have to deal with it. Or at least, it will be FAR less

[hearty island]

people ask me how i got the internships i did and all i say is i applied like hell and didn't really take no for an answer

[mortal wedge]

People definitely struggle with that, so any encouragement/help to those struggling is much appreciated

[hearty island]

it all comes down to how determined you are and some luck is always great too

[thorn bronze]

Yep

[thorn bronze]

I also want data analysis and/or data related jobs or be an dl engineer to have a source of income and a backup plan i case i dont be able to gte into research

[mortal wedge]

There's definitely wisdom in having a breadth of qualifications. Go for it.

[mortal wedge]

Just as an additional mention, although I think you picked up on it, research related jobs REALLY want you to have a phd if you're not doing it within the context of academia. Not all of them, but it's very common amongst the R&D positions I've been applying for lately.

[fringe sphinx]

“Chance favors the prepared mind” - Louis Pasteur.

[steel kindle]

what tips would you give for getting promoted quickly?

[smoky quest]

be good, be connected, be at the right place, be at the right time

[steel kindle]

tis not very actionable, but that is what I am aiming for basically

[smoky quest]

and exceed expectations and operate beyond your level

[smoky quest]

being promoted is a process, not a DLC

[steel kindle]

I know

I am exceeding expectations, but just not sure if there's anything else I can do

[smoky quest]

have you talked about it with your manager?

[steel kindle]

potentially work on more skills outside of work, and either then seek another position eventually, but idk if I want to leave this company

[steel kindle]

Yes somewhat, although right now I am on a set track to a promotion. However after that it will be a pretty variable amount of time.

[smoky quest]

yeah, anyway, you wouldn't want to skip a level as it would not set you up for success

[steel kindle]

I mean it is basically the same level as I am at now

it's standard for a promotion after one year. I wouldn't have any new responsibilities.

[smoky quest]

what about expectations?

[steel kindle]

They would increase, but ideally by the time I get promoted I will be already exceeding them.

[smoky quest]

and your manager would agree with that statement if asked?

[steel kindle]

yeah I mean there's new grads hired into that role if they have a masters degree

and my mentor from last summer mentioned it

[smoky quest]

But then again, would your manager agree that you already exceed the expectations of your current promotion and are operating beyond that?

[steel kindle]

I said ideally by the time I get there I will be

atm no, but I am exceeding them for my role afaik

[smoky quest]

right and it will also take some time to get the projects that demonstrate you operate beyond that level itself
So you need to make sure your manager is aligned with that and agree

Because at the end of the day, he will be the one writing your promo package

[steel kindle]

potentially she may be. but yeah that's a good point.

[smoky quest]

I also can bet there are unknowns unknowns and things you don't know yet, even if you think you can operate beyond that level.
So it's important to have these discussions with your manager so she can explain to you what you are missing and things you can do to work on them.

[steel kindle]

yeah but it doesn't really get anywhere with her

I ask her what else I could be doing and she doesn't really say anything

[smoky quest]

you can always push for specifics "so what is stopping the company from promoting to X"

But in general, I would caution against wanting to skip levels like that. That's a flag that someone is missing what each level means

[tall topaz]

hey

[open ivy]

It's very hard for me to get a job (those who choose to become my friends are very much non "9-5 people"). So I may end up poor eventually.

But such a plight will not rob me of my desire to help. Mansion or skid row tent, or anything in between, the vast possibilities of Turing Completeness becon me.

So I wonder, what are some informal volunteer opportunities for which I can build a "career of alturism"? If I never get a source of income it is still a partial victory: crew duties to improve live aboard spaceship Earth. And it may gasp actually lead to a real job.

When I say "informal" it's more like "ok can I spend an hour helping you today, in between my other tasks (or work if I really luck out!)." If nothing else, let me squash a bug here or there.

I don't like the idea of the volunteer positions you must apply to and interview, too "job like" for a non-income task.

[candid saddle]

Anyone here make a complete career change to Python/programming from something completely unrelated and waht was your experience, did you have a family, kids and a full time job to juggle while learning and changing careers?

[fringe sphinx]

Your university should have an international student office who could help you with this question. But: I don’t know Uk, but in US, the answer is a qualified Yes (because in future you’ll need sponsorship but not now)

[gritty rivet]

People do it all the time, but it's not easy and takes a lot of persistence. (I check most of your boxes personally except the kids.)

[hidden bloom]

is writing cover letters a waste of time? shld i just have a baseline cover letter and then keep re-editing it for each job? or shld i not bother tailoring it and just use the generic one(thing is i'm applying for placements) so I feel like i shld tailor each cover letter properly to increase chances as obviously my resume isn't the strongest since I don't have sufficent work experience yet

[south forum]

Anyone know of any remote internship that give certificates/lors. I don't mind no pay

[peak halo]

I've never heard of anyone getting a certificate for completing an internship. But I don't think certificates have very much perceived value by full-time employers.

[tawdry rose]

What’s up everyone.

I got a question I’m between to become a data analyst or a front end developer. The reason I was to start with data analyst is because I want to be AI engineer and there’s no entry level role for the AI engineer. The front end is cool I want to do that but I think the data analyst is way faster to get good at and get hire.

[peak halo]

Holding everything else equal, working as a front end developer will do nothing to help you become an AI engineer. Whereas working as an analyst might. What is your education and work experience, if any?

[gritty rivet]

Do you have a degree? If you're really determined to be an engineer working on AI, that would be my focus

[zealous path]

personally I think they’re overrated and you should only do them for jobs you REALLY want

[zealous path]

Work an a Data Analyst and the Data Science team will send us their ML modelling stuff for us to tweak so you can start there by not having to know how exactly it works but how to use it to get better understanding

[summer roost]

I'm in the US, and I'd usually only write a cover letter if there's something I need to explain to the hiring manager about why I'd be a good candidate that isn't conveyed by the resume. Cover letters let you tell more of a story than resumes do, and sometimes you might want to tell a story - about switching industries, for instance, or about leveraging seemingly unrelated past experience for this job, etc

[fringe sphinx]

** There are country-specific differences here, just like the practice of putting a photo on your resume. Best to make sure you’re getting an answer from folks in your country.

[oak lintel]

Where can I learn python?
Im beginner

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[slim fulcrum]

Hi there, I'm planning to spend the next 3 months fully preparing for an entry-level position as a developer after receiving my degree in economics in 2021. I have beginner level coding experience.

What I had in mind was...

1. cs50
2. Coursera offers IBM Back-End Development. ( covers
   Linux, Git, Python, SQL, Django, Docker, K8s, Microservices, Serverless, Security, Monitoring)
3. React
4. further technological stakes as required
   5.building projects

🙏 Please drop your suggestions or ideas

[noble dawn]

how many jobs should i apply to in a day?

Python Developer Jobs

[pine sleet]

between 1 and 1000 inclusive

[noble dawn]

only a robot could do that....

what are the does and don't of a cover letter

any advice to contract seekers on platforms like upwork, fiver like me?

[near ocean]

Only a robot can send at least 1 application per day?

[noble dawn]

only done one contract so far on upwork

dont laugh at me it lasted a week and paid only 25$

but i did it to get some experience for work history building on upwork

that a good path?

[deft herald]

What's your educational background?

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[fringe sphinx]

Hey, that's actually really impressive. For real. And any experience is good experience (as is any love)

[hidden bloom]

i will know if i got onto this mentorship programme on november 1st. i'm in the midst of applying for placements. even tho the programme only begins after the end dates of certain placement applications I should still put that mentornship programme on my CV right? Even though I haven't done anything related to it yet. Cus I got in? And it's tech related etc. and would look good. Should I hold off until november 1st and not apply to stuff until then cus then i can add it to my cv if i get it? Like for example the next upcoming roles are closing on the 11th of november so instead of shotgunning now I should wait until I recieve if I got into this cus then I can add it to the CV... The programme is a dell one so i think it would look good?

[gritty rivet]

It's hard to answer detailed resume questions in the abstract because it's a whole package. Share an anonymized screenshot if you want feedback.

[oak lintel]

Thanks

[hidden bloom]

this was it

Uploading a cover letter is optional, should i upload one (even if it's generic) and i just change the name and a few sentences a bit , or do i up my chances by uploading none. Should i only upload the cover letters if they r really good / rlly tailored???

[gritty rivet]

So this new position is not there yet, right? You already show a lot of similar experience so I wouldn't add the thing that hasn't started yet unless you feel you can say something really strong about it

[gritty rivet]

Targeted cover letter can be worth the time.if you really want the role and have something to say. Generic is probably better then none at all, unless it truly adds no value over your resume itself

[hidden bloom]

no its not. but the thing that hasn't started yet is actually tech related? and i'm being the mentee i'm not the mentor. and i feel like i should idk i will just say start nov 2023 - present

[hidden bloom]

is this a good cover letter template? these aren't my words ofc. it's 'boring' black / white but i don't want to do too much and i want it to match my cv which is straight to the point

[hidden bloom]

this is better isn't it?

[gritty rivet]

I agree with your point about simple formatting. This is fine for a generic model to follow, but make the language your own.

[hidden bloom]

in terms of formatting and stuff ^

[hidden bloom]

yes obvoiusly i'm not using that writing im on about the format of it like it's fine right?

[gritty rivet]

Do what you like. I prefer the simpler format but both are reasonable and professional

[hidden bloom]

u mean the first one?

[gritty rivet]

As my own personal preference, yes

[deft herald]

#❓｜how-to-get-help
This channel is for career discussions

[leaden jasper]

@plain sandal this is not the correct channel and you should use the API instead. See #❓｜how-to-get-help.

[cobalt moat]

How do online cs internships work?

And how bad are they compared to in person

[gritty rivet]

What are you asking exactly?

[cobalt moat]

How does it work online

[gritty rivet]

I mean, they're not "bad" but all things being equal in person will probably be the most valuable experience.

[gritty rivet]

How does it work in person? Whether you mean by that, it's the same but not in person

You apply, you find out what they want you to do, etc. They may or may not have clear expectations in terms of schedules, meetings etc. but basically it's the same as any other internship

[slow plume]

I've joined a company semi-recently into a new internal team. Today I was getting familiar with their codebase and it's probably one of the most batshit insane packages I've ever seen. Static methods everywhere, unnecessary inheritance, and giant docstrings which are almost masturbatory in nature. The actual outputs are quite simple but the repo is symptomatic of someone whose been left to go off on one for a year without any scrutiny whatsoever.
What's the best way to approach something like this from a political point of view? Should I just smile and nod, attempt to refactor small parts of it, or just burn the whole thing?

[hidden bloom]

is this a good like generic layout? intro who i am what role i apply / transition into how i match the skills requested (connect it to my cv?) and then why i fit into company culture etc. overall conclusion?

[smoky quest]

What is the expected outcome?

[gritty rivet]

You'd have to feel things out... My first question would be to ask who's been working on it and talk to them.

[gritty rivet]

Sure

[slow plume]

I know exactly who's working on it but because they're quite senior, I don't really want to be like "hello, I looked at your code, and it's a complete mess"

What is the expected outcome?
I think this is a really good question which is why I'm leaning towards just smiling and nodding.

I doubt I'd be able to give a strong enough business case beyond "something something technical debt" to justify spending my time refactoring it

[smoky quest]

there is also https://thoughtbot.com/blog/chestertons-fence to consider

[smoky quest]

One outcome you could look for is improving the code base over time, discussing and demonstrating best practices in tech talks and code reviews

[slow plume]

i'll give that a read thank you

[smoky quest]

If the code is that terrible, surely there is a very visible cost associated with it, be it in uptime, maintenance or development

[slow plume]

I think what I'd like to be a bit more constructive, is do you have any recommendations for assisting in code design

because tbh, it's something I could do with brushing up on myself. Are there any standard tools people use for visualising packages, in the design phase perhaps?

I'm totally stealing chestertons-fence at work and pretending i discovered it myself btw

[smoky quest]

One of the main thing is to automate as much as you can. So linter, etc.
Verify the basics are down, like having a repeatable build, tests, etc.

Then you without going into visualization, you can browse through the code and make a list of the top offenders and starting to focus on the top 2-3.

These things take time and effort, however:

• You will end up with better coworkers
• You will end up with a better code base
• It demonstrate a certain maturity/leadership which can be noticed

Outrage is easy. Fixing it and improving the situation take skills.

[slow plume]

you're absolutely right

i think what i'm going to do (because it's pipeline stuff)

is make a much simpler, streamlined implementation of a small part of the package, and demonstrate how much more straight forward it is. Makes it a bit less targetted towards a specific team member

[open ivy]

It depends on how many companies (your balance of quality vs quantity). I see very little discussion on finding companies that other people aren't finding; taking the "back roads" to avoid traffic. To do so isn't trivial: search engines will PageRank a minority of companies into very high visibility and they get flooded with resumes. So we can't just search for Python jobs.

I have been thinking about lesser-known industry blogs etc.

[true harness]

you need grammarly

[hidden bloom]

am i bootlicking too much tho

[gritty rivet]

Yes

[hidden bloom]

is it this bit: "Scheduling an online or in person interview at whichever time is most convenient to you will be of my very most pleasure."

too dickridey? or the entire thing as a whole.. shld i just take out very most and say my pleasure?

[open ivy]

Probably. I would pick a thing or two about the company you like. Make it fairly specific. Mention career growth within the context of the company.

But I really, really really want to know how to get past the stupid PageRank. We don't make friends by going to People magazine and reaching out to the celebrities do we.

[hidden bloom]

ya i will do all that but this is just the conclsuion of it

[open ivy]

Maybe "interested to learn more about" would be better than "extermly eager to work at"?

[hidden bloom]

hm got it

thanks!

[open ivy]

Hmmm, I want to get a list of every single company within 3km of a BART station. Is there any database that I can get? A nice .CSV I can Python script through to filter.

No PageRank will haunt me there!!

(Most software roles are not "Tech" companies, as "Tech" means "Online content delivery service". But software is used every time a machine needs to be told what to do as well as in data science etc).

[true harness]

when did "tech" turn into "online content delivery service"? is Uber not a tech company? what about something like datadog, or like salesforce

[hearty island]

no fucking way i got an interview with UHG!

and the recruiter is the same one as my old one omg

this could be very interesting

[near ocean]

Why would uber be a tech company, their product is taxi services

[deft herald]

Sort of. You could argue that their product is software that enables anyone to become a taxi serive or a taxi customer

[near ocean]

Everything's a tech company then, everyone uses software to some extent

On the other hand, these categories dont matter 🤷

[deft herald]

I dunno. The main thing Uber provides is an app.

[deft herald]

Yeah in the long run this is correct

[deft herald]

as "Tech" means "Online content delivery service"
Yeah i also disagree with this statement. I'd say a tech company is any company that provides a product or service that is related to technology

I would consider hardware companies to be considered "tech"

[open ivy]

Whoever says "tech has layoffs" or "70% of coding jobs are outside of tech" has some arbitrary definition of "tech". Facebook google amazon etc had massive layoffs. But many companies didn't. So we really should be aware of which companies laid off their programmers and which didn't.

[steel kindle]

have you tried asking why?

[open ivy]

Have hardware companies suffered the massive layoffs that Facebook Google Twitter etc have? If not its a good thing to apply to!

[steel kindle]

Yeah there is still quite a few entry level SWE openings, they just aren't necessarily paying as well as before. But the salaries are still like $70,000+ usually, which isn't bad for a new grad.

[deft herald]

yes they have

[steel kindle]

you can live on that anywhere in the US

[deft herald]

Huh, it looks like there is some standard way to classify companies:

The Global Industry Classification Standard, or GICS, makes this easier to digest by grouping tech stocks into three main categories: software and services, hardware and equipment, and semiconductors.

They have datasets
https://www.msci.com/technology-and-data/data-explorer

[open ivy]

Hmmm, maybe the "software and services" companies have most of the bad layoffs? Or most don't but the big FAANG layoffs got all the attention?

[deft herald]

From first-hand experience the HW companies also got hit hard

My company did like 10-20% overall this year. That's a company of 50k+ employees

[gritty rivet]

The "information" sector in the US has lost net jobs three months in a row. There's no question it's rough out there right now. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.b.htm

[summer roost]

Several competing standards, as is tradition 😄

[deft herald]

yeah lol

[pine sleet]

i've an idea, let's make a standard to unite all the standards!

[hearty island]

guys if i have to choose between two healthcare giants for a career what do i do

i guess comparing stuff like their culture etc. is the best way to go

oh nvm the salary for UHG is lower 💀, ugh but they're ranked higher than the other one

[open ivy]

Maybe more rich kids can hire freelancers to implement thier game ideas, if competetant remote computer programmers are on the cheap?

[deft herald]

You should compare everything though. What are bonuses like? stock grants? 401k match? etc

[hearty island]

yeah

[hearty island]

but idk if a rotational program is worth it over a full time entry level job... but that rotational program is considered a full time job so

[deft herald]

what does that mean exactly? Rotational program?

[hearty island]

it's a one year program that'll place me into a full time role

[summer roost]

"Tech" means "Online content delivery service".
According to that definition, not every FAANG company would be a tech company

[hearty island]

i think it's very promising tbh, besides the relocation to Minnesota

not that i have anything against minnesota

[deft herald]

I don't think COL is too bad up there, so there's that

That's definitely another huge factor when considering total compensation 🙂

[hearty island]

100%, total comp would be lower in a place where the COL is less

[outer granite]

Is it true that it's nearly impossible to get your first coding job 100% virtual?

[pine sleet]

Don't know about "nearly impossible" but I'd say it's probably more difficult than an in person or hybrid one

Typically when you have junior developers or interns (who are generally inexperienced) you want them in person to provide better support and mentorship

[white relic]

Hiring anyone is a risk. Hiring an inexperienced person is a big risk. Hiring an inexperienced person for a remote only position is riskier still. What do you have that offsets the risk of hiring you over someone else who might have some more experience or be able to commute?

[gritty rivet]

No, but it probably depends on the country you're in among other things.

Anecdotally among bootcamp grads I know (including myself) I'd say first job is 100% remote at least half the time. But that's in the US.

[cobalt moat]

I got my official job offer!!!!!

[hearty island]

seems like the role i got an interview for spans project management, data analytics, and data science

🤔 seems pretty expansive, ngl

but it could be a good match for me considering my major is biz analytics

idk how much they're expecting out of me

[gritty rivet]

At a small startup I'd say that's pretty typical, at a large corp it's more surprising

[hearty island]

yeah it seems like they're almost confused on what they want

[vapid jay]

What kind of modules do you guys think an entry level Python software engineer should list as proficient on their résumé?

[wintry marsh]

(probably the ones you're actually proficient with)

Q: What do you guys think the best languages are that complement Python. I am not sure if Python alone is enough, so what are some good combinations.

[near ocean]

If you can answer questions about them and they're not standard library, pick a couple

[vapid jay]

I mean to say which should I learn

[wintry marsh]

ahhh gotcha 👍

[true harness]

typically there's a few modules relevant to the domain the job you're applying for is in. maybe it's fastapi, flask, django for web dev, or numpy, scipy for something science related, and so on

[outer granite]

Interesting, is going to a coding bootcamp alongside with college recommended? Or is college itself enough?

[true harness]

i would not do a bootcamp on the side, instead just do my own projects

[jaunty musk]

guys anyone here can help me out with school project where i have to interview a programmer?

pls dm me id be really happy is someone here could help me out

[true harness]

just ask here

[peak halo]

I gather that for the assignment, you need to gather responses from only one person. but you should at least give an overview of what the questions will be about in this channel.

[jaunty musk]

ok, there really simple

Attach a digital business card/letterhead with the person’s: name, position, company/organization and contact information clearly stated. To help separate the questions from the answers, colour their responses in green.

Digital Business Card: Click or tap here to enter text. /5 marks

1. What do you like about your career? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

2. What do you dislike about your career? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

3. What education and training were required? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

4. If you could change one thing about your career, what would it be? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

5. Did you have any misconceptions about your career before you pursued it? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

6. Did you have any pleasant surprises about your career once you started your employment? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

7. How many years have you been in your current position? /1 mark Click or tap here to enter text.

8. Was this career your goal when you were in high school? If not, what was your career goal? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

9. If you could go back and start over again, would you still pursue this career? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

10. What advice would you give to someone just starting out in your field? /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

11. A question of your choice. /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

12. A question of your choice. /2 marks Click or tap here to enter text.

13. A question of your choice. /2 marks

Click or tap here to enter text.

[true harness]

i really love question 12. very eloquently written, truly profound, incredibly thoughtful

[jaunty musk]

yes ik

well id rather do this in dms so ye

and no hurry if you dont have time rn cuz its not due soon

[steel kindle]

Can you elaborate

Complement it how, it depends a lot on what you’re doing

[wintry marsh]

just in general, software/app development

fullstack, i feel like python alone is probably not enough? idk

[steel kindle]

If you want to do web dev than JS/TS would complement it well

[white relic]

It really depends on what you want your career to be. It's your career

[steel kindle]

I mean it really depends what you want to do, python is useful for very many things

[wintry marsh]

well i have a cool app idea, that I think will do well, and doesnt exist.

[steel kindle]

Then maybe something like Java or swift would be useful

[wintry marsh]

are those for ios or android or both, i saw somewhere , that each platform had a different language

[steel kindle]

Java is native for Android, Swift for iOS

React Native and C# can both be used to develop for both, but I’ve never used react native

[true harness]

kotlin is becoming popular as a replacement for java

[wintry marsh]

what about flutter and dart

for both platforms

hmm seems like JS is more popular and more versatile

maybe JS is a better path for me, because what I am interested in is Web dev, app/software dev.

would you guys say JS is better at those than Python? or depends

[gritty rivet]

Botcamps are primarily for career changers who have irrelevant degrees.and can't go back to school... If you're currently in school I would not recommend

[marsh thicket]

I think objective c is faster than swift

[steel kindle]

Sure, but I would choose swift all else being equal

[steel kindle]

Depends, it doesn’t really matter tbh

[wintry marsh]

so if I learn python and down the line I want to make webs/apps, id have to learn something else?

[steel kindle]

Sort of, it’s pretty transferable

Python can be used for backend, it’s actually pretty good at it if you don’t need very fast performance, which you often don’t

[wintry marsh]

whats good fast performance for back end

[pine sleet]

Off topic for this channel. Also you're going to have to be a lot more specific

[wintry marsh]

im just replying to his " it’s actually pretty good at it if you don’t need very fast performance, "

[pine sleet]

o, sorry. didn't see the above message

[wintry marsh]

np, sorry as well

[steel kindle]

Really at the end of the day it’s going to be whatever your team is already using most of the time

[pine sleet]

Then yeah. I've the same question as you - you'll to be specific on what counts as "fast performance" for "backend"

[steel kindle]

But there’s languages like Rust, Go, C++ is sometimes used for APIs that are faster in performance, but will take a lot longer to code

[wintry marsh]

gotcha

[steel kindle]

Python is generally fast enough, unless you’re doing a lot of computation in the backend code it shouldn’t be a big difference

[steel kindle]

Also python is much easier to code

[wintry marsh]

yeah its the only thing I know to code with, i just wanna make sure im not screwing myself up in the long run by only knowing python, as im just getting started.

[white relic]

If you're just getting started, you can't be screwing yourself up by not knowing something because you can learn it when it comes up

Nobody starts out knowing everything they need. You learn enough to start with and then you try to do something and you learn that there's more things you need to know, so you learn those things. Rinse and repeat

(For the next 40 years)

[smoky quest]

very popular websites use python for their backend. You won't hit its limit for a long while

[marsh thicket]

I hate java script

[wintry marsh]

ty @white relic @smoky quest

[steel kindle]

Yeah really it doesn’t matter. Even if you run into a situation where python doesn’t work, you can just pick up another language. It’s a lot easier to switch from one to another

[steel kindle]

Why?

[ivory pier]

From a new grad's prospective trying to get hired, would it be better to diversify the amount of languages you can be "proficient" in or to go all in on one language? I used to always think the best way was to go all in on one language but after going to career fairs, a couple of recruiters have said its better to be more jack of all trades for programming languages. Now i'm confused

[fringe sphinx]

I think it’s necessary to get ‘good’ at one language before worrying about breadth. A CS grad is typically familiar with a few languages, and ideally has specialized at one language long enough to be proficient. Jumping around and only having surface knowledge isn’t sufficient.

[white relic]

It's good to have some variety, and it's also good to have some depth. You can learn the basics of a bunch of languages and also do some deep dive projects in your favorite one. It's not all or nothing

[steel kindle]

I would focus more on what you can actually do than languages you know

Learning the basics of a new language should be super easy if you’re comfortable in one or two already

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I think a lot of folks worry about language 2 before getting ‘good’ at language 1

[vapid jay]

Every single question about whether x language is better than y can be satisfied with “It depends on the specifics of the problem”.

That said, if you go based on specific problems, some languages are faster, or cleaner, or more secure than others

[steel kindle]

Definitely, if you’re good at 1, picking up 2 will be a lot faster

[ivory pier]

what would you guys say is the level that you can be considered 'good' and can focus on other languages? being able to create a full stack app?

[steel kindle]

If you’re comfortable with 2, you can probably grab a 3rd in a similar paradigm and make a project without actually studying the language separately. The project obviously won’t be great, but that’s at least how I approach it.

[steel kindle]

Can you do the things requested in job postings you like.

[harsh river]

eh, i can't even make a full stack app, probably

[vapid jay]

A professional developer (should) have the skills needed to integrate with what the customer already has or work in a language he is not an expert at, to get a certain solution done. This is my opinionated comment.

[white relic]

If creating an app is your goal, it's not unlikely you'll learn something about other languages along the way. JS for instance

[vapid jay]

JS is the lingua de franca of the internet along with PHP although the latter is slowly receding

[steel kindle]

pretty much every actual product is going to use several languages

and the reasons are often not because x language is faster than y, it'll be for a wide variet of factors

[ivory pier]

yeah i can understand a stack like c#, html and css

but what about a stack with ruby on rails or something like that

[vapid jay]

Almost every web service has one language for the site features (JS or PHP coupled with markup), one language for the server side (JS, Python, C#, throw a little Go in there), and a database language like SQL if it is using a relational database.

A “full stack” developer has to work with all three to a sufficient degree.

[white relic]

"JS or PHP" doesn't make much sense as an alternative

PHP goes in the server side category

[vapid jay]

I just realized this oversight, that is true

[steel kindle]

Tbf JS is used a lot sever side as well

[vapid jay]

It is. But I worded it incorrectly

[steel kindle]

Tbh it’s not that deep, just pick something and learn it.

[white relic]

The main point of what PsalmFirewall was saying is correct. If you don't know at all what you'd use other languages for, it might be because you haven't tried to do a big enough project

[steel kindle]

^

[ivory pier]

gotcha, thanks yall

[vapid jay]

Unfortunately for me my opposite problem is continuing to try and make big projects without learning the fine details of the language implementation I need for it

[steel kindle]

only projects I have done recently are at work, and we're constrained to one (sort of two) languages

[vapid jay]

I am so awful at web design. Specifically web layouts and responsive design. Even with tools like Bootstrap. Hopefully I can find a nice career in Software anywhere that doesn’t require a lot of front end work.

[steel kindle]

I do no front end work. Well very minimal ig, I sometimes give a skeleton of what certain parts should look like.

[vapid jay]

What kind of job do you work at?

[steel kindle]

wdym

[vapid jay]

Like what do you do for work, what’s ur role that doesn’t require front end work

[steel kindle]

SDE

[vapid jay]

Really? You’re an SDE without doing front end work? I’m kind of surprised to be honest. I always expected them to have at least some ability to do UI’s

[steel kindle]

I think the majority do not

SDE/SWE is incredibly broad

[steel kindle]

the extent of UI work I do is basically defining how some things should be laid out, the UI team takes care of what it actually looks like

[fringe sphinx]

Even web developers tend to be terrible at web design. That’s why we hire graphic designers, or use templates

[vapid jay]

I see

Unfortunately for me my brain rots when I try to “center a div” for the 50,000th time

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, you do need to be able to do that. The designer just tells you that it needs to be centered

[vapid jay]

Yeah see thats where my brain disconnects. Something about needing to visualize the hierarchy of grids or flexboxes really hurts my head too

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it takes practice. I hate it too.

[steel kindle]

Yeah maybe lean away from front end then. I personally hate it.

[white relic]

Same, haven't done "front end" anything since XHTML was news

[shell furnace]

hi guys

[fringe sphinx]

I just started doing some front end stuff, somewhat happy with current frameworks. Hyperscript/htmx plus tailwind is really refreshing

I tried react and it was horrible.

[white relic]

To be fair I don't really do what I would consider "backend" either

[steel kindle]

I just hate frontend, idk why

my brain doesn't vibe with it

[fringe sphinx]

With the right framework, it’s not so bad: even as a backend person, I often need to put together a site/tool/app… or wait till someone has time to do what I need

[steel kindle]

Well I can do that, I just greatly dislike UX and UI design

A lot of it is that I just don’t find it interesting I think

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I’ve worked with some fabulous designers. People who are passionate about their field. It’s a real game changer.

[round crystal]

Can't wait to buy my first house with Benco Bucks™️

[true harness]

actual poverty wages

[languid hollow]

thas some horrible shiiiet

[idle gyro]

bro thats under minimum wage where i live 💀

[languid hollow]

Same here, good lord

[idle gyro]

teach me everything

[languid hollow]

whatcha mean

[idle gyro]

TEACH ME EVERYTHING

[languid hollow]

[idle gyro]

ok do that tmwr gn i go now gn

[languid hollow]

I dunno like.. have some sort of experience, interest, apply for an academy if possible, i dunno. If you are talking about cybersec or somethin