career-advice

[wanton birch]

What happened recently?

[true harness]

not too recent now i guess, but i was referencing covid shenanigans

[wanton birch]

I feel like them seeing that gap would make them think I must be shite if nobody gave me a shot. But I don’t say that out of knowledge.

[fervent grove]

have u got the chance to perform on-sight?

[wanton birch]

!?

[true harness]

I presume they're asking if you've been interviewed

[wanton birch]

The farthest I’ve gone are the initial screening calls.

[serene depot]

Hello

[gritty rivet]

If you have no dates anywhere, they will assume that anyway.

Whether it's better to leave that to their imagination depends on the whole package. I'm guessing a resume with no dates is probably more likely to get thrown out then one with an obvious but reasonable gap unless it's pretty strong.

But I have no data to base this on. If you are getting zero interviews and you have never tried sending out resumes without dates, maybe try the experiment.

[deft herald]

"resume experiments" is the exact reason I put a little version number in the footer of my resume

[fervent grove]

for real?

[fervent grove]

what @true harness said, cant imagine u got 0 interviews to assessment center or so when frequently applying,
didnt we spoke about that 2weeks ago that u got an invite?

[deft herald]

f'real

[fervent grove]

did u got remarks in the application process on that topic? 😄

[wanton birch]

That was a phone interview. It went well. They said they’d recommend me to the hiring manager without me even asking. But since then it has been silence.

[fervent grove]

mhh maybe reach out after 2 weeks?

[wanton birch]

It’s an industry giant though. One of the top automotive companies. So I am guessing they probably could get a left handed albino vegan who is more qualified than me if they wanted. Lol

[fervent grove]

why so pejorative?

[wanton birch]

Oh I apologise if it came across as offensive to left handed albino vegans. That wasn’t my intention. I just added arbitrary qualifiers to make the candidate seem more rare.

[deft herald]

Nope

Only remark i got was on a subtle joke i put in my resume, haha

[fervent grove]

don't know if it's just your resentment against yourself or against others but either way it doesn't get you anywhere

[fervent grove]

give us the Joke don't let us beg 😄

[deft herald]

It was something like "will reliably refill coffee receptacles once empty". The guy interviewing me proceeded to send me an official SOP document they had already drawn up for this exact process

[wanton birch]

I wasn’t trying to express resentment! I was just pointing out that it felt like they are like the Microsoft of car making so probably gets impressive people and also a large number of applications.

[fervent grove]

most certainly they will but u could be one of em

[wanton birch]

Yeah! Who knows! Let’s see if they get back to me.

[muted bridge]

not sure if this is the right channel for this, but I've currently purchased the Cracking the Coding Interview book as I've heard a lot of good things about it, but I haven't actually completed my data structures class at my university. Not sure if anyone has the book, but should shelf the book until I have more knowledge with data structures, or can I start learning from it now?

[muted bridge]

im a freshman interested in applying for internships this upcoming summer

[fringe sphinx]

Makes no diff. Maybe it’ll open your eyes to new ideas. No harm either way. Learning isn’t a straight line. If it’s interesting to you read it, if it isn’t, I/we can suggest other books!

[muted bridge]

to be honest though I'm wondering if I made the wrong choice purchasing this book, I have very little experience with java

[fringe sphinx]

Plenty of other choices, don’t be so worried about interviewing: I’m not convinced extreme interview prep pays off.

My new favorite advice is: watch Python conference videos. So much wisdom. For free.

[buoyant seal]

i am intensive enough book reader. for 3 years eyed this book and finally decided i will never read it 😄
it is useless

For data structure and algorithms there are better books
for all other stuff there are better dedicated books

[muted bridge]

why do you feel that way

[buoyant seal]

i refuse to learn brainless leetcoding that has no practical application. (why would i need to learn it 😄 )
I learn practical skills only.
Unit testing, code architecture, performance optimization technics, language syntax tricks, technologies and etc

[fringe sphinx]

I’m not so opinionated in that. My philosophy is: I enjoy reading any subject I know nothing/little about.

[buoyant seal]

Shrugs. i just checked this book a bit before and it kind of contained answers to answer interview questions only
and ton of leetcoding tasks
it lacked any useful depth to me.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh fair, any top book you’d suggest, since we’re on the topic?

[buoyant seal]

Must have book to read if not read yet 😄 Comprehensive experience of dozen of years+ dev regarding auto testing in terms of explaining what u can test and for which goals to aim
I recommend it often enough as first or second book to read.
it also explains different dangers how to not make your team disappointed in testing in general 🤔 certain traps to avoid
What can be more important than unit testing if u work with dynamic typed language with the stuff breaking on runtime only 🙈
A good portion of people think they are middle or even senior devs without being able to test all... that's wrong and should be first corrected 😉
Anyway, great book for any level. But i think as pre requisite it requires learned OOP basics as minimum, and would benefit you stronger if u digged into Design patterns and Clean architecture to operate with code structure at a more flexible level to fit code for unit testing.

[near ocean]

You can do your in depth reading after you stop struggling with bills cause you cant pass an interview
The book is good for what its for

[sullen sparrow]

Where can I ask about interview question solutions without it being like "oh help me cheat on my interview"? As in, I got some interview questions in the past that I don't know how to solve and I am looking for tips or advice

[true harness]

#algos-and-data-structs

[vapid jay]

@floral cove

[viral inlet]

Free Event – worth checking out. Most interested in the talk on cloud lateral movement & hearing about the next gen of cloud attacks! Also, lots of info on new research & tools to level up your offensive sec game. And personally, don’t know who'd pass up a session with Stephen Sims.

HackFest Summit 2023
November 16-17 | Free Live Online
Details here: https://www.sans.org/u/1qTn

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[onyx basin]

Hello, I have a question about how does upwork payments work...
Well we have 3 service tiers.. starter, standard, and advanced..
Well if someone selects the starter teir; would he need to pay exactly as what I specified 50 $ or can I charge a bit more depending on how hard and how much time does the work need (even if it still has the starter tier features only)

[pseudo plinth]

I'm looking for partner with someone as both a learning buddy and project collaborator. The goal is to work on a Python project that can help us improve our skills and serve as a strong addition to our resumes for future job applications.

I'm at still newbie and am particularly interested in any good idea, maybe 2d game or small app such as workout tracker. I believe that teaming up can provide us with a unique learning experience and a way to stay motivated.

Would anyone be interested in this collaborative learning journey? Please feel free to reach out so we can discuss further.

[kind wagon]

Hey

[thin nova]

hello can someone help me in turtle i have a homework im a beginner

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[spark cobalt]

!resources Have you looked at these?

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[spark cobalt]

Especially if you're starting, I'd be a little hesitant buying any sort of membership.

[analog stirrup]

Hello. I am from romania and programmers are paid well over the average salary here, but they don't earn a dime compared to other European countries, and jobs are way harder to find here. After university I am sure that I will start my life abroad.

My questions is whether or not you think that I could go to university abroad directly, keeping in mind that I don't have perfect grades and I don't want a top university.

[brazen island]

Hey Cosmix,

I'm from Belgium. I think it's a good idea, there's good universities here that are very affordable and offer degrees in English. I don't think there's entrance exams either nor do they look at your grades ,you just need to cover tuition.

Whether or not you go directly abroad is down to what you want. If you want more time with family and friends doing your degree in Romania is fine. If you want an adventure and a foot in the door already then moving immediately is fine.

Feel free to ask if you have any specific follow up questions.

[silk socket]

what is the most optimal (not average) career path in your opinion for any software developer in general - starting with finishing high school and knowing fair bit about programming but not having any professional experience yet, what would be the ideal first step for that type of person

[pine sleet]

Getting a CS degree

[late pewter]

https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/16bwq7n/the_harsh_reality_of_pursuing_a_career_as_a/

Yes get degree

[fringe sphinx]

Hey, you're not a bot??? Welcome. (for reference, see post history)

[fringe sphinx]

Besides what Robin said: if you're still in HS - Take math seriously. Strong math skills aren't necessary, but they sure help... and they help with abstract thinking, imo. Learn to program and do small projects - don't "grind" or make yourself miserable, it's a marathon not a race. Hang out in #python-discussion , you'll learn a lot from other people.

In terms of "optimal": There are many outcomes depending on what you like... some folks are specialists, others are generalists .... some people love UI work, some do data science ... some go into management early in their career, others stay in engineering. So, my old man advice is: the optimal career path is the one that you'll stay interested in / not miserable, and the best way to find that is to build a strong foundation with experience.

[silk socket]

well I already am I professional software dev but I was wondering what you guys think

thanks for the response!

I definitely think CS degree helps a lot for many people in that situation! and I also agree that it is not a sprint but rather a marathon

on the other hand... I pretty much sprinted my career unlike many other engineers XD

I think that the best thing you can do is:

1. Put yourself out there and build strong connections with people as soon as possible (networking)
2. Get as good as possible as fast as possible - basically outcompete everyone by being the most skilled individual
3. Don't study anything just work on what you love and keep improving by getting hands on experience with building projects and experimenting with different areas of the IT field

but of course it depends on your goal... Basically I want loads of money, great results at work and gaining skills while having fun and meeting interesting people at the same time so this is why I would choose this approach...

[fringe sphinx]

1. Yes, 100%, 2. There's no such thing / that's a fools errand IMO. 3. I half agree - if you're a #2 (outwork everyone) person, then studying and learning the internals is essential.

[brazen island]

I don't think we can underestimate how much people liking (or at least tolerating) you can impact your career. We've had people that were very strong technically, the whole 10x dev stereotype but they were a massive pain to work with and thus were not valued as much as they should have been.

[summer roost]

Absolutely. Soft skills are job skills, too. It doesn't matter how brilliant you are if you can't work with others, or help others understand your work or your perspective. Software engineering is a team sport

[blazing scroll]

hello everyone. I have a question to ask. Currently I'm getting an associate degree in software engineering. Can I secure a respectable job with it? I've also done some online courses and now I can also code very frequently in python. Are these things even worth it for securing a job or not?

[summer roost]

in broad generalities, I'd expect someone with an associate degree in SE to have a harder time landing a job than someone with a bachelor's degree in SE, but an easier time than someone with no degree

[blazing scroll]

😦

I was told that now a days companies don't look at the degrees, they just want to know that how fast and efficiently are u at problem solving

[pine sleet]

Companies still very much look at degrees

[dense mesa]

Who said this? Which country and industry is this for?

[pine sleet]

A bachelor's in CS or SE will help your chances out a lot (especially if just kick starting your career)

[summer roost]

if two candidates are evenly matched in all other respects but one has a degree and the other doesn't, I'd expect the candidate with the degree to get the job offer every time

[blazing scroll]

I can't afford a bachelor degree

[pine sleet]

It does become not as necessary once you get 5-10 ish years of experience or more, though

[blazing scroll]

that's why I took admission in associate degree

[pine sleet]

There are many government programs (like FAFSA) to help cut down on the cost, there are also scholarships you can apply for. This can drastically reduce the price or even make it free

[blazing scroll]

In my country (Pakistan) its way more complex to get a scholarship than u think

[silk socket]

@blazing scroll listen if you are confident in your skills you will do good in life that's it.

[summer roost]

if you're convinced you can't afford the bachelor's degree, then I'd expect some degree is much better than no degree. I'm not familiar with Pakistan, but that's certainly the case in the western countries that I am familiar with.

[blazing scroll]

it sounds cope -_-

[dense mesa]

Well meaning but not applicable...

[silk socket]

you live in USA right...

of topic... guys do you think that AT&T is considered a big tech company?

[late flame]

I barely consider them a tech company to begin with

[silk socket]

ok that's what I wanted to hear thanks

[vapid jay]

https://bold.org/scholarships/dog-lover-scholarship/

there are a lot of different scholarships

[fringe sphinx]

I disagree, fwiw. AT&T is a large employer of software engineers. It's a massive organization, and AT&T labs is a fairly substantial research organization.

[shadow jungle]

Guys, I need a good python package for detecting abusive language in English and many other languages, opensource, free fast project active maintenance, high accuracy or just a a big huge list of abusive/swear words

[fringe sphinx]

I agree with the other comments, but if you don't have the privilege/opportunity to complete a 4 year degree: get as much education as possible because SWE is a hard field to land your first job. There are many jobs in tech as entry points: operations, QA/testing, support, etc. This may give you time / money to finish a degree and provides valuable experience, even if it's not your dream first role as a SWE... learning devops skills, cloud services, shell scripting, etc will be a big help here

[fringe sphinx]

Prob wrong channel, see #python-discussion

[tidal lake]

i swear

[analog stirrup]

I have looked at a list of countries in which programmers have the most potential,
Sweden Denmark UK Netherlands Belgium Switzerland and Norway, most of them have free tuitions for international students coming from EU, but I see that living in any of these countries is quite expensive. All of them require at least 800 euros per month, but Switzerland which is double. That is quite a high cost, I don't think that I can make that amount of money during summers, especially since I only know English and no other language.

[brazen island]

I can only speak for Belgium:

1. Tuition is not free. It's €1000 per year for EU students if I'm not wrong.
2. Universities have housing and I think it hovers around 250-400 per month.
3. Cost of living depends on your lifestyle. You can definitely shop for 25-30 every week so add another 150 here.
4. If you look hard enough you can find student jobs in English. Most of them are delivering fast food on bikes type gigs though...
5. The country has a mix of top tier/prestigious unis that are objectively difficult and "easier" ones.

I think another option is trying to get a remote job from western Europe and staying in central/eastern Europe but I have no clue on how hard that is and if they'll adjust your salary to the local rates.

[analog stirrup]

Good point! I have a lot of research to do, thanks!

[modern ore]

TikTok really asking math Insight questions on OA for crud 🤣

[smoky quest]

One should expect the compensation to be adjusted to the local rates

[late pewter]

Has anyone actually gotten a job being a self taught programmer? Is it possible to get into the big tech companies too?

[smoky quest]

Hi!
What is your situation?

[fervent grove]

if u got an degree already i would say yes, if not i dunno

[tender frost]

I got into what I'd consider a big company being self-taught (UK, through an apprenticeship since I started last year when I was 18). No degree or akin, just GCSE & A-Levels. Salary of £23k which was just upgraded to £30k as I reached the 1yr anniversary

Apprenticeships are considered entry level though, so it's not expected to have experience etc.

And since apprenticeships are either L4 (Higher Education) or L6 (BSc) it's pointless if you've already got a degree

And all of what I just said is broadly useless if you aren't in the UK

[fringe sphinx]

Tizzy, s2 is a self bot, don’t get too drawn into it (99% sure)

[fervent grove]

also just asking if its possible not even giving info about which type of job/level

everything is possible lel

[misty palm]

i feel semi oaky with my knowledge of python but i have absolutely zero projects

[fervent grove]

did u do kaggles?

[misty palm]

its so hard for me to envision what a decent project looks like in python cause its idk. just cant visualize it, any advice for finding projects? no what is kaggles @fervent grove

[fervent grove]

what are ur interests is in my opinion best first step so u are working with passion on it, kaggle is a website where u can get datasets for free to work on
(but if u dont like datascience u could also do games etc. fully depending on u)

[misty palm]

I have no passions. just desire for a job that i can work work from home and make decent wage 😦

right now in school for comp sci just grinding classes but this route is so slow. maybe I can try to query riot API for some data and make something off of league lcs stats

i will research Kaggles tho, thank you for this resource!

[fervent grove]

maybe check if kaggle got u covered on a LoL dataset
but also try to setup an api pipeline aswell

[fringe sphinx]

Three ideas. A Django dashboard app. A data analysis project using Pandas. And something with BeautifulSoup (or a discord bot).

[fervent grove]

but we dont support scraping here 🗿

[fringe sphinx]

BeautifulSoup is also used for legitimate purposes.

[fervent grove]

scraping is also legitimate purpose but more in the grey area lol

if using public-apis u cant violate ToS 😄

[celest kite]

Even a lot of public APIs violate ToS so meh

[smoky quest]

These are generally incompatible.
Being remote would require you to be self motivated and not require people to check on you and push you to get your job done.

I would suggest to work on understanding better what you like or dislike or else you may find it painful to get a career remote

[fervent grove]

if a website provider gives a public-api for Tor-clients i assume its ok? simply sniffing the api and then using it lol

[simple cradle]

So, I have decided, after this batch of students have finished up, I am gonna have to start charging a small amount for programming and dev tutoring. It will still be very cheap and accessible. I would like to know, for a two hour session, what would you be willing to pay?

[modern ore]

😹

[smoky quest]

depends on the level of the students, the outcome, etc.
You could look at the tutoring rates in your area

[simple cradle]

Why funny?

[smoky quest]

There is also a marketing factor on top of that. For instance someone from Stanford would be able to charge more than someone from a no-name university, just because Stanford is well known

[simple cradle]

I tutor around the globe, so need a more general idea really, and want to keep it cheap

I currently have 30 students that I am tutoring for free

[smoky quest]

Sure. Then you have to be mindful that someone in the USA may not have the same buying power than someone in a poorer country

[simple cradle]

Yeah I totally appreciate that

[smoky quest]

Plus there is the quality over quantity

A good test maybe, would be to see how much your current students would be willing to pay to continue being tutored by you

There are also a few tutoring platforms out there. It may be interesting to see how much they charge

[simple cradle]

I have been, it does range quite a lot

and have been looking at virtual classroomsbecuase I can charge less by grouping them together in the same session

(This is a good idea for other reasons too)

[simple cradle]

I feel I provide a quality service

[smoky quest]

it's less about the intrinsic quality of your teaching and more about how personalized the tutoring would be.
You can't spend the same amount of time on a student if you have 1 student or 50 of them. And that typically translate in higher rates for less students and lower rates for more students

[modern ore]

Where did you find your students and where are most of them from

[smoky quest]

So all in all, it will be difficult to provide you a single number.
You may want to test different approaches and see what works best. As a rule of thumb, you should charge more than you think you should

[simple cradle]

I currently teach about 14 hours a day, and its mostly 1 to 1, with the occasional session of 2 or 3 studfents (they are friends and want to work together)

[modern ore]

jesus

[simple cradle]

From my various discord servers I am a member of

[brazen island]

I think you have to figure out what the going rate is of your industry. None of us can simply say a price to be honest.

[smoky quest]

nice!
that's a lot of hours

[simple cradle]

I am a dedicated teacher

So, rates that my students have suggested range from (converted into £) £5 - 30

[modern ore]

an hour?

[simple cradle]

an hour

[smoky quest]

Some ways to look at charging:

• Look at it as the cost you have to bear to live or generate that value. Include the time to prepare for the lessons or follow up. Assuming your want a yearly compensation of X $/year, you have to pay for housing, food, insurances, taxes, etc. What should you charge?
• Look at the value you generate. That's why some consultants are able to charge thousands of dollars per hour. In this case, what value does it generate for their classes, degrees, career, etc.
• Who are your target customers? What can they afford?

[simple cradle]

So, the types of students I have:
beginners, with no real experience.
Intermediates looking for work
Advanced, both in and out of work

Oldest student is a guy who has been in the sector for 20 or so years, wanted a refresher/update course on modern techniques

I have gotten several people into work

[smoky quest]

sounds like it should be worth a lot to them

[simple cradle]

It is, IMO, but part of the reason I started was to give folks in more difficult positions a chance. A tiny bit of backstory. I was homeless for many, many years, and I literally programmed my way off the streets. And I want to provide folks the same power ya know?

[smoky quest]

This is awesome!

[simple cradle]

This is why am more reserved about my idea of pricing

And why have been doing it for free for the past year, but I am in a situation atm, that if I don't start making money, I will be homeless again

[smoky quest]

You can't take care of others if you aren't safe yourself.
Teaching 14h/day for free isn't sustainable.

You could organize yourself in many different ways:

• Discount for X. Ex: for students or whatever
• Percentage of hours you keep doing for free

[simple cradle]

Its really not, and beginning to understand that, being idealistic is hurting me now

[smoky quest]

plus if you aren't stable yourself, then you won't be able to help them anymore. So it's a loose loose situation

[simple cradle]

You are right.

[smoky quest]

It's music to my ears

[simple cradle]

I am gonna ponder, and see if I can come up with a scheme that gets me paid, but still lets me help people

[smoky quest]

One last advice is to make sure you don't hurt yourself to help others.
So find ways to help but not in a way that cost you opportunities

[simple cradle]

I can't promise that one, I am very driven to try and elevate pople, and give them the oppertunities I didn't have

[sour tartan]

the other day you said you did security testing for a living?

maybe i misunderstood what you meant.

[simple cradle]

I do, I have been sick fo a few months, so have been putting extra time into tutoring

as can do that from my bed

And folks who are getting stuff for free are a bit more forgiving about time than a paying employer, so if I have to cancel I can

[sour tartan]

i see. so the security job is on hold for now? That sucks.

[simple cradle]

I work for a company called EPSGlobal

[simple cradle]

Yeah, I still do occasional tiny bits

but my bosses have been super good about me being ill atm

Will have had multiple operations by the time I get back

[sour tartan]

i hope it happens soon

[fringe sphinx]

I have a good friend who is a writing tutor. He switched from hourly to ‘blocks’ because of the inconsistencies and cancellations: he then found peoples perceptions changed; he could position his value (and expected outcomes) more when offering a (for example) 3 month program rather than talking about 12 one hour lessons.

[simple cradle]

Me too ❤️

[simple cradle]

This is a good idea

[sand patio]

Is this competition worth it? https://vthacks.com

mm, I guess that's not a great question

I miiiiight go, I was wondering if it'd stand out on college apps and such

registration is at midnight today lmao

[fringe sphinx]

for me, hackathons/tech conferences/whatever is a big plus: helps you come across as a geek / passionate about the field.

[regal axle]

If the question is just a pure "should I or should I not go?" then the answer is go. If it is more like "well, I can go but it is going to cost me a lot and I might be in a tight spot to spend that much;" than that might take more consideration. But I don't know your situation.

[sand patio]

I see, gotcha

I'll be able to go 👀 no cost, it's free

and a friend would drive me

[regal axle]

The event is free. But there are other costs that sometimes show up for people. Mainly travel. But if you have a friend that can drive you; yea absolutely go!

[sand patio]

gotcha, thanks for the insight!

[pine sleet]

worst case you lose out on the time then

[fringe sphinx]

oh, and any opportunity to network (meet people) is huge.

[sand patio]

hah, turns out I need to be 18

I only double checked after filling out all the forms 😔

[arctic root]

Any suggestions Abt interesting ml project

[peak halo]

try asking about that in #data-science-and-ml

[arctic root]

I see

[buoyant seal]

!rule 9 , delete your msg

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vapid jay]

happy

[tawny river]

hi

[arctic root]

Anyone doing freelance

[upbeat shore]

I'm curious about IT job requirements: Do people proof-read? Entry level job and wants 5+ years of experience in every single programming language....how do you deal with that?

[vapid jay]

I've accepted that everyone who told me engineering and science degrees would lead to a good career are frauds, how well do stem degrees translate when applying for other fields?

[white relic]

What's your degree?

[vapid jay]

I have degrees in organic chemistry, computer science, and software engineering

[white relic]

Three bachelor's?

That's an interesting résumé

[vapid jay]

chemistry and computer science are associates. Bachelors in software engineering

[white relic]

But what other fields would you be looking at getting into?
STEM teaching is in demand

[vapid jay]

If I went back to school Id pass 300 college credits

[vapid jay]

Im over STEM at this point

[white relic]

associates degrees don't really count for anything in my part of the world

[vapid jay]

Count the bachelors then

[white relic]

might be in the wrong discord for that question then

[vapid jay]

I like bringing this up in technical servers because its a reality check for people comming into this thinking they are set if they do everything they are supposed to.

[wanton birch]

Never seen that sort of a mix

[wanton birch]

where are you based?

[vapid jay]

I was in the medical field and a year from going into med school, but bailed and switched to technology because im poor

[vapid jay]

east coast, but have applied to most states in the US

[wanton birch]

To me, it seems like there is an over abundance of STEM grads. Maybe even non-stem ones. Probably need to dial down the university mill a bit to fix thing.

[vapid jay]

Its deeper than that. A few articles online have been stating there have been more layoffs this year in technology than the dotcom bubble

one example https://fortune.com/2023/06/01/tech-layoffs-worst-since-dot-com-bubble-burst/

so yeah, this field is garbage now.

[wanton birch]

Of course the layoffs are there. But even without all that, the fierce competition among graduates for every job and the salaries offered instantly lets you know that the skill shortage thing is probably just another way of saying "there aren't enough unicorns"

[vapid jay]

you mean the 5 years experience entry level jobs 😆

[wanton birch]

And even then, they will not want to pay you much. Demand and supply principles already tell you that then there is no "shortage".

Well! At least the hope is that we can all help each other here to at least get employed or increase our odds of getting employed.

Did you manage to get some hits? @vapid jay

[vapid jay]

only legal ones where they had to call someone. Could tell none were serious with the questions.

[wanton birch]

Situations are pretty bad in Canada as well.

[vapid jay]

yeah, I saw Canada has an even worse housing market than America if thats even possible

may have to get a remote call center job and fly to the philippines

[wanton birch]

Well hopefully things will get better and we will find some way

[true harness]

I thought you were in a tech internship?

[celest kite]

I didn't think you believed everything you read on the internet

[fervent grove]

just keep on grinding I just recently got one as well and am not a unicorn
(did a jobfinderapp to get interesting offers and used that in my interviews most of the employers loved it)

[wanton birch]

You wrote the app?

[fervent grove]

yes

wanted to do some sniffing and api usage so decided what could be cool to showoff
later did some analysis on most used buzzwords etc., i think if u have such a project to show off thats a big +
(im a simple grad with no former tech background and got employed in a big company with decent salary)

and as of what u told us here @wanton birch i think u are capable of doing just like me but u need the chance to show that off so keep on grinding

[wanton birch]

Thanks, buddy! I will need to finish moving my projects to Github. There is a recent big one that I still didn't upload there. By the way, how are you showing these people your work?

[fervent grove]

in my cover letter i feed the people 🗿 to then speak/show the project
(most times HR/Management was not looking at git tbh, so get a bit proactive i guess)

[wanton birch]

Nowadays I rely mostly on listing them on the resume. Don't do cover letters unless they ask for it.

[fervent grove]

do cover letter all the time bud, it shows "dedication"

[wanton birch]

By the way, how long did it take for you to get proper traction?

[fervent grove]

started in June this year with applications mostly 2-5 per week

[wanton birch]

Sadly I did it for the first year without any impact. I got most of the responses from the screeners from after I stopped doing cover letters. But that could simply be due to the increased volume of applications due to dropping cover letters.

[fervent grove]

i think a coverletter is not that much of work but shows u are dedicated and HR love such ppl i guess and from my former Mentor i knew he put great interest in those
so even if u get the feel its pointless continue doing em cause takes only 2-3min to adapt ur form

[wanton birch]

The advice I was given was to tailor it to the company and the role. That always took some time for me.

[fervent grove]

u can do that but i didnt, i did a general one which covered 90% of vacancies for the rest i adjusted proper

just show that u got a passion for the field u apply with ur background/history etc. (its not rocketscience lel)

[true harness]

i don't have experience hiring people, but passion isn't going to change whether or not your resume is good enough for the position

[vapid jay]

I was about 7 months ago

[fervent grove]

it also seems to me that nowadays you don't have to suck up so much and you don't have to convince so much why you chose this company, so you can write more about yourself, which is easier to generalize.

[fervent grove]

70% true i guess, there are exceptions if you make the HR curious e.g.

[vapid jay]

I've applied to nearly 2k entry level positions 🙂

[fervent grove]

wtf how?

[true harness]

have you been getting any callbacks?

[vapid jay]

yup, its that bad

[vapid jay]

nope

[true harness]

like i said, i don't have any experience, but i'm skeptical ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[true harness]

if you're not getting past the resume screen, then there's something in your resume that makes people not want to hire you

[fervent grove]

can just give u my biased opinion cause as mentioned earlier im not a tech guy just a normal grad an apparently thats enough when u can show certain skills (and good references)

[fervent grove]

there must be some major stuff when he really applied on 2k vacancies

[vapid jay]

I had 40-50 people review my resume and several different iterations of the resume made. Even purchased a few things for it. I really doubt it.

[fervent grove]

whats ur background and what field u apply in?

[vapid jay]

Bachelors SWE, Associates CS and Chemistry. 2 years as an intern in technology and several certificates. I've had other jobs as well, but not related to technology.

Applying to anything with a computer lol

[true harness]

might as well post your resume here for more review. changing nothing isn't going to help you get a job at this point. unless you really are set on not working in tech

[fervent grove]

salary wish too high?

[vapid jay]

Im past that point. The thing about posting your resume on discord servers is there will always be a conflicting preference. I've actually spent more time revising my resume at this point then my college capstone. Its never good enough to satisfy everyone.

[true harness]

i mean, if you've gotten no callbacks, it's clearly satisfying no one

[vapid jay]

Rude

[wanton birch]

Time span for that?

[vapid jay]

it's been a month

[wanton birch]

You applied to 2000 jobs in 4 weeks?!

[fervent grove]

even in his 7 months i call bs with 7*30 (normally 20) it would result in daily ~10 applications or 14...

[vapid jay]

I don't think so, is 75K too high in the US?

[vapid jay]

yup

[wanton birch]

I tried 10 applications a day for a while. It was very hard. Was not easy to do with all the effort I was putting into making those cover letters.

[fervent grove]

there isnt such a job vacancies supply thats why i call bs

[wanton birch]

So then it became "Aim for 10" instead of expect it.

[true harness]

it's on the lower side, depending on area

[vapid jay]

Im applying everywhere in America

[vapid jay]

That's what I thought. I mean 50k can't even get a studio apartment comfortably these days

[fervent grove]

are ur grades super bad?

[wanton birch]

Yeah. There was taht problem as well. Sometimes I genuinely got like 16 positions I could qualify for. But there were also days where a few only! It is not like you don't run out of valid positions to apply for.

[vapid jay]

AI

[true harness]

the question you have to ask is: will switching to an industry where you have no relevant experience or education be better than continuing on your current path?

[vapid jay]

Magna cum laude

[fervent grove]

this all makes 0 sense then 🗿

[wanton birch]

sounds like a French condom brand or something

[vapid jay]

At the current rate it feels like it

[vapid jay]

3.5 / 4

[wanton birch]

I'm sorry. I am not used to those things. In the system where I got my education, we had the 1st class, Upper 2nd/Lower 2nd class etc

[vapid jay]

https://fortune.com/2023/06/01/tech-layoffs-worst-since-dot-com-bubble-burst/

[fervent grove]

the industry always shout out loud but this is not over all companies and when u apply on 2k vacancies u cant apply that

[true harness]

so basically, you get percentage scores on assignments, which are translated into values on a 0/4.0 scale, which is then averaged across all courses and called the "grade point average". students that graduate with a GPA above a certain threshold (say, 97%ile) get "latin honors". and there's different levels of latin honors, like 95%, 97%, or whatever

[vapid jay]

You can when all those people who were laid off need jobs

[fervent grove]

the ones laid off will be higher level than u so u wont compete with em , a senior wont start with 75k

[vapid jay]

Thats my point

[wanton birch]

Someone I spoke to in person who works with certain tech related recruitment told me that when they have a "pile" of applications and they go through it, they stop after they find some good samples. Then they trial them with the managers. IF they are not agreeable, they look further into that pile. So! You can do everything right but you may still not get a response simply because they found what they were looking for from one of the applicants before you. That is how they do things as cross-checking a huge number of applications would be extremely impractical.

[true harness]

you won't even be applying for the same role, is what they meant

[wanton birch]

Thanks. That makes sense. What is the highest band called?

[graceful mason]

I am curious if the 2k roles includes the ones requiring 5 years experience that you mentioned?

[vapid jay]

I've noticed that a lot actually! Of the 2k applications I've only had a few hundred denials.

[fervent grove]

fair point

[wanton birch]

2000 per month sounds like a bot level activity

[vapid jay]

a small portion may be around 5 years. I apply for very close matches

[fervent grove]

2k close matches this gets stinkier every minute 🗿

[vapid jay]

Im unemployed so its basically my 9-5

[arctic root]

Anyone doing freelance

[wanton birch]

As such, if true, it is probably so generic that it goes straight to the bin

[arctic root]

Have u tried freelance

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vapid jay]

I actually started looking into government contracting earlier. I may just start my own thing.

[fervent grove]

ok a bit too fast i admit

[arctic root]

Like a YouTube stuff or like

[graceful mason]

I thought you applied for anything involving a computer?

[vapid jay]

Consulting probably. Just find people online with things that could be improved upon. Send them a demo in axure or something and if they like it then just follow the project management lifecycle.

I get a bit of imposter syndrome when I think about starting my own thing, but at the same time I have degrees in this field now and have several certifications.

[wanton birch]

I am still trying to wrap my head around the 2000 jobs amonth thing lol

In the last few months, I managed to do 150 per month sort of

[arctic root]

So u alr applied for few hundred and none of it landed

[vapid jay]

Id offer advice but I dont think im qualified

[arctic root]

Damn is it really that tough to land it

[wanton birch]

@vapid jay Which month was it when you sent out 2000?

[vapid jay]

few thousand yes

[arctic root]

Damn thousand

[vapid jay]

last month into this month

[arctic root]

None of it lands holy moly and u had a degree,how am I going to perform

[true harness]

by getting your resume reviewed 😉. (and having education, internships, and projects)

[wanton birch]

In that case, it is too early to even say. Statistically speaking, I'd have guessed that some would have gotten back to you. But realistically, many companies take a while to get back to you after applying. So it makes no sense to be hopeless about it. The last call I got was within a month, the one bfore that I got after 3 months and another one after 6 or something!

[vapid jay]

Done all of that

[vapid jay]

Does it really take them that long though?

[fervent grove]

mean = 4weeks for me

[white relic]

Yes lol

[arctic root]

Try freelance Bru maybe better that way

[wanton birch]

It depends! Everyone has their own unique context and it varies accordingly.

[vapid jay]

4 weeks of applying or 4 weeks for them to get back with you after you applied?

[white relic]

At my (smaller) company we only review résumés once a month ish

[fervent grove]

4 weeks getting back to me on average

[wanton birch]

But I can't believe you studied all your life and topped it off with a 4 years university education to lose hope in one month!

[vapid jay]

Im use to quicker turnovers

not to mention I'm unbelievably bored

[arctic root]

Gage u do data science

[fervent grove]

welcome to reality where ur effort wont get u accelerated all the time

[true harness]

i didn't see you post your resume here

[vapid jay]

I started Googles introduction to AI course last week to pass the time. It's pretty interesting.

[wanton birch]

Honestly though! If I was given the goal to send out 2000 applications this month, you'd not see me posting anything here lol

[vapid jay]

it was a few weeks ago, I remember talking to you about it. your suggestion was to update my skills section. I did

[fervent grove]

i would resign with 2k in a month quality over quantity

[true harness]

i see. did you implement any of the other suggestions?

[arctic root]

Gage what's ur main thing is it backend dev

[vapid jay]

All of them. It was funny though. I implemented the changes and then posted it in another discord and they told me to change some of the suggestions I got in here.

[wanton birch]

He specialises in bulk applications tech

[arctic root]

Wot is that

[fervent grove]

🧌

[true harness]

maybe it's time for another review then. of course, you should always decide whether or not the qualifications of the person you're taking advice from are valid

[wanton birch]

A shite joke making fun of the 2000 applications he managed to send in one month.

[vapid jay]

I suppose so. I'm technically fullstack and just go where ever I'm told.

[arctic root]

Damn man im dead

[vapid jay]

you can't get over the review thing 😆

[wanton birch]

How do you guys acheive that?! Is that common for CSE folks to have expertise of so many different things at once?

[true harness]

well yeah. i have no context for why you're being rejected other than it's a problem with your resume

[vapid jay]

LETS REVIEW HIS RESUME TILL HE DIES

[fervent grove]

post it

[true harness]

you'll often see "T shape" skills, where someone is very knowledgeable in one area with passable skills in other areas. so a "full stack dev" might focus more on backend, or more on frontend, or whatever

[arctic root]

Gage chill Bru u haven't tried freelance

[vapid jay]

In college, I had a very diverse range of classes that drove me into being competent with frontend, backend, and mobile. I never dealt with embedded systems or anything like that though (no C or C++)

[wanton birch]

Ah! Mine is underscore shaped _____________ I cover a lot of ground spread over a lot of different domains 😛

[vapid jay]

Have you tried freelance?

[arctic root]

I'm doing it this is ma first day

[wanton birch]

It is hard to actually know what people even mean by that. So my bad for asking.

[vapid jay]

whats your background in this field?

[arctic root]

Data science but in the freelance web I actually tryna apply for vid editing lol

[wanton birch]

This is literally the 5th week of him applying. So I think we can chill a bit.

[arctic root]

💀

[arctic root]

How about u Bru did u land one

[vapid jay]

oh, no worries. I have experience with Java, Javascript, Python, C#, CSS, HTML, SQL, Dart and many frameworks for those languages. Lets me cover most areas.

[vapid jay]

Feels like an eternity

[wanton birch]

The farthest I've ever gone are the initial phone calls after they email you. That is it!

[arctic root]

So u haven't land one

[trail mauve]

Hello everyone.

[fervent grove]

ola king

[wanton birch]

No. I've been at it for about 1.5 years. Needless to say, probably exceeded the 1000 mark but stopped counting a long time ago. I think I got total of 5 calls from 5 places.

[vapid jay]

Do you have a degree?

[wanton birch]

Weird enough! They were all HUGE places. I am talking the continent or world's best in their fields.

[arctic root]

Bro 1000 apply for 5 calls bruu

[wanton birch]

yes

[arctic root]

Dang did it went smoothly

[vapid jay]

I think we have been scammed

[trail mauve]

Nice to meet you.

[wanton birch]

Yes. The conversations were nice. They seemed hopeful. The last one voluntarily told me "I'm definitely recommending you to the hiring manager". I didn't ask.

[arctic root]

Damn man that's cool so u have a job

[fervent grove]

HR is just to competent for u guys @wanton birch @vapid jay /s

[vapid jay]

huh

[wanton birch]

It is also possible that the first line of these screeners are just overly nice people.

[fervent grove]

was a joke, im not the biggest friend of HR concept

[true harness]

from everything i heard, HR isn't making many determinations based on your skill, just basic things like "are you legally allowed to work", "do you meet the minimum requirements". everything else is passed to more technical people

[vapid jay]

Oh, yeah I hate HR

[trail mauve]

May i discuss with you?
If you agree, let's go to DM.

[arctic root]

What's a hr

[fervent grove]

nah just stay here i dont want DMs

[wanton birch]

If HR is the problem or whatever it is is the problem then how come others get hired? Maybe it is something about me.

[arctic root]

Hm I see

[fervent grove]

luck

[trail mauve]

Okay.
got it.
If you have any dev task, i hope you give me it.

[fervent grove]

and their practices i guess when this pile theory is correct lol

[wanton birch]

Human Resource

[arctic root]

Intresting

If u were back in highschool will u change ur path

[wanton birch]

But how is that their fault? Time is money! Going through endless applications and then cross referencing them is a bad algo, mate! Wildly inefficient. The source of the problem isn't their opimisation algo but perhaps the over abundance of applications.

[fervent grove]

im not saying its their fault i mentioned luck earlier

but i track application count from vacancies aswell and they arent always in the thousands
and if its in the hundreds i assume HR checks all
i need to do an HR internship at this point lol

i just want to see how they handle applications

[wanton birch]

I spent a lot of time and resources behind my education. If I went back in time, maybe I'd have saved all that to self study and start a business instead. With that much cash investment and this many years of effort, the chances of me finding some solution would have been better than now for sure.

[wanton birch]

How do you know the stats on vacancies?

[fervent grove]

i can fetch that data from listings and sum up 🙂

[wanton birch]

Dude! That is the equivalent of doing a programmer's average lol

[fervent grove]

what u mean by that?

[wanton birch]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/that-plum-job-listing-may-just-be-a-ghost-3aafc794

[fervent grove]

still dont get u

[wanton birch]

Please ignore the programmer's average remark and replace that with "Your maths has been mislead"

[fervent grove]

u mean companies list jobs to get interesting protential employees?

[wanton birch]

Please check the article I sent

[fervent grove]

I have skimmed it

[wanton birch]

You have companies posting fake jobs and this is a known thing. The estimates for this is high enough to be alarming. The reasons given seem to include "To keep the existing employees on their toes", "To fake the illusion of growth", "To have a revolving door type thing where you don't really need one but what if someone super awesome showed up!", etc

[fervent grove]

ur unicorns 🙂

[wanton birch]

And of course you also have postings that are not fake but they are only posted for legal reasons or whatsover. Meaning that they are only posted for their preselected folks to apply, interview and get hired.

[fervent grove]

ofc, but wont matter if i get the number of applicants

[arctic root]

Y'all apply thousand using application like LinkedIn?

[fervent grove]

linkedin is sheeeeeeeeeeeet

[wanton birch]

It is a mix for me. LinkedIn, Indeed, company sites. They are the top 3 for me.

[arctic root]

So what did ya use

[fervent grove]

the career sites of potential employers

[arctic root]

I see

[fervent grove]

but also scraping the ones @wanton birch mentioned

[wanton birch]

Wait! I think every single one I got a call from were actually from LinkedIn....hmm

[fervent grove]

linkedin superior lol

[wanton birch]

Well! At least that way I can confirm that those big shot companies DO CARE about LinkedIn applicants

[fervent grove]

u used direct apply? normally they transfer u to their own site wont they?

[wanton birch]

Indeed is where I send out dirty applications. Not because the applications are dirty but it is one of the most scammiest thing ever. Everything about them is so scammy. But when a man needsa job!

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Majority are direct apply I suppose. But the profile does get shared with them once I confirm I applied.

[fervent grove]

do direct apply on their sites e.g. workday

[wanton birch]

Workday shouldn't exist

[fervent grove]

indeed but u are a slave of the system so use it

[wanton birch]

They give you so much nonsense about stupid fuck design choices and systems and then end up all using systems like that professionally

[wanton birch]

I think all of us have endless workday accounts

[fervent grove]

i dunno why workday cant use one applicant profile and send it to all the positions u are interested in no u need to create for each shit a new account and all data

must be something with privacy i guess but this shit is nuts,
how can such a bad system get so much money

[wanton birch]

Because it is designed like an internal tool but used as an external tool. Sorry I don't know the words for them. Like the design idea is that a company will integrate it into their system or whatever so it will necessarily be separate. But when everyone does that, it ends up becoming separate and distinct from any particular company and viewed as a third party thing entirely. That is how we all use it. We don't think Company X's Workday, we just think Workday.

It is similar to blackboard , wordpress, and other similar software

[fervent grove]

last big company i worked for really did use it for other things apart from applications
but i think one could make it better

[vapid jay]

I’m coming to that consensus. What do you use?

[gray iris]

Now I have a question - Is it better to learn Computer Science when you are at least at the regular/senior level or rather at the beginning of your adventure when you are just learning programming? I have a lot of time to learn, but I don't know if it's worth focusing more on CS now or focusing on, for example, Python and doing projects without understanding the core concepts of computer science?

[fervent grove]

my own jobscraping-app

[wanton birch]

Also, nowadays, Linked in sends me notifications and emails about "Are you hiring?"

LMAO! Even they gave up on my prospect of being the one to be hired lol

[wanton birch]

What is your end goal?

[true harness]

what do you mean by "regular/senior" level? and what do you mean by "CS"? it's hard to learn programming without picking up CS concepts

[vapid jay]

I’m not confident this is a good career path

[graceful mason]

I really don't think it benefits anyone for you to try to scare off people based on your (apparently uniquely bad) experience with the industry. From my POV you aren't really trying to do anything to improve your chances and just want to complain - if you actually want to stick with this career path then you need to approach it with a more positive attitude

[wanton birch]

Ma boi's still typing....

[gray iris]

@wanton birch answer 😉
Become someone like Software Architect who chooses right tools for right job but I'm far from goal. Let's divide this!

1. Learn essentials like learning to code approach, language paradigms, how compilers work, data structures and algorithms.
2. Master first language based on things I have learned during the previous point, also keeping in mind how to approach problems and solve them
3. Get a junior Python job to gain commercial experience with solving problems and of course doing projects all the time

@true harness answer 😉
Regular - someone who understand problems and can solve it without much assist of dev team 🙂
Senior - someone with more leadership skills and a bit of teaching is not unknown to him
CS - Computer Science, so very fundamental things about computers I need to know, that will help me with problem-solving and understanding hard concepts

Yea, it is and my question is all about when to learn Computer Science - Before having or after getting a job?

[true harness]

you will need CS skills before getting a job. CS is very broad, so i'm not sure this will be useful. it's probably true you won't need obscure CS things, like...idk kinetic data structures, but you need the fundamentals

[graceful mason]

It's unlikely that you'll get a python job without some level of CS knowledge. I mean... I don't see how you can learn programming in the first place without exposing yourself to CS too

[gray iris]

@graceful mason @true harness OK, so I should work on it before even learning first programming language. Can you recommend a few concepts that will help me most on Computer Science topic? I know how to search the internet, but I need info what to search 😉

[true harness]

!resources hm? you should learn it while you learn programming, not before, not after. try these resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[gray iris]

OK, thank you so much! See ya in next question 😉

[wanton birch]

If you are someone who enjoys learning on your own, you’ll probably end up learning a great deal more than many CSE university grads about Computer Science. Obviously that is assuming you stay motivated and keep learning.

However, a prospective employer doesn’t know that about the candidates in advance. So they use your degree at least as some factor to convince themselves that your broad knowledge of the subject matter is reliable and real. So it becomes like a minimum requirement thing for almost every job.

Now if the application tracking system employers use ends up having a simple “has degree” filter, your application will never see the light of day.

Considering that most Software Engineers are from such degree holding backgrounds, you will be competing against those who have the projects alongside their degrees! That will be a major handicap.

If I may ask, why do you not want to get a degree?

[gray iris]

I'm 17, I still have time to think about degree. If Bachelor's Degree is enough, maybe I could get it in 12 years of learning - I'm having a lower intelligence than common human, so it will take longer, including I didn't go to high school, so I need to pass additional 6 years (high school in Poland takes 4 years), but with my intelligence probably 6 or 7 years and Bachelor will probaly take the same time, because I know my possibilities and I'm not gonna complete college in max 4 years 😭

and there's a question, is it worth getting degree with that amount of time and ending up being junior that is about 30 years old?

[fringe sphinx]

Can attest to this: I’ve seen it. It’s a known thing needed to satisfy immigration laws: to convert an employee from (say) a OPT to sponsoring an H1B, one requirement is filing a job posting, and there’s games people play. I remember a YouTube video of some lawyers caught advising a company to do this.

[digital fjord]

Can also confirm that this is a thing that happens

[wanton birch]

@fringe sphinx please share your informed views

[fringe sphinx]

If it were me with that timeline: I’d try to get in the tech industry somewhere (qa, ops, support, whatever) and gain practical experience and money while studying. Might need some skills like: linux, basic programming, cloud (aws or azure), etc.

[gray iris]

so with my timeline, should I get degree?

[fringe sphinx]

I really can’t speak to your specific situation, as it seems somewhat unusual.

[fringe sphinx]

My point was only there are multiple paths: including working in tech while studying part time, 2 year degrees, etc.

[gray iris]

yea it is 😦 So I will ask in other way: Can I get good job with Python, that does not require degree?

[fringe sphinx]

Without a degree, it’s hard. That’s why I suggested an adjacent field (such as QA or Operations or Support) which doesn’t have the entry requirements of software engineering.

[gray iris]

QA money is great and it doesn't require degree? It may be the best option with possibility to program after work optionally

[fringe sphinx]

You can make good money in QA, and not all roles require a degree.

[gray iris]

is Manual Testing good start?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes! Anything that gives you experience in the industry.

[gray iris]

Thank you! Sounds great especially if I will see a senior QA with no degree 🙂

[deep helm]

guys, idk where should i go... computer science, data science, or cyber security. can you guys please explain the differences?

[deft herald]

CS is the well-rounded superset, DS is the intersection of CS and math/stats. Cyber security is another subset of CS but honestly I'm not too familiar with the subject material

[gritty rivet]

What exactly are you trying to decide? If you're comparing degree programs, I would say CS is generally the safest bet unless you have specifically decided that you really want to commit to one of the others

[wanton birch]

Think about it this way:

Mathematics includes Calculus and Linear Algebra

Computer Science includes Data Science and Cybersecurity

I am not from CSE background but any decent programming should allow for some sort of focus/major. The idea being that most CSE students will study the same courses except for a minority of courses where they pick topics relating to their areas of interest/focus!

So you could be doing Computer Science while focusing on say Data Science courses.

[peak halo]

at my university (mid atlantic US), there is one computer science undergraduate program, with options to concentrate in data science, cybersecurity, or software engineering. and then if you want to drill down even more into one of those, you can get a masters in CS and do courses for your focus area.

so if you're currently a teenager in the US, Canada, or Europe, you should apply to CS university programs, because that's the next step for all of your options.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh this ("one computer science ... program") makes sense to me. Those overspecialized degrees make no sense to me, other than as a money making tactic for colleges, for example: Degree in Interactive Media & Game Development (BS)

[vapid jay]

Hey anyone here from 2023 Computer Science batch who can tell me how to get a internship as a python developer. I'm searching for job for 2 months and everyone want's experience.. I'm not even getting a chance of an interview.. So please if someone who can guide me on this path

Hmm.. Yes you are right I'm doing this via LinkdIn

[buoyant seal]

It helped me finding job after my graduation:

• having enthusiastic resume with open source participation
• And putting resume to web sites with local jobs to my country and town
• solving week long interview home task (it was given during interview)
• being not picky regarding salary

[vapid jay]

can you explain a little but solving week long interview home task mean? I'm not picky regarding salary but atleast it's have to fullfill my basic needs

[buoyant seal]

flask mega tutorial
I was given home task to do this tutorial in one week (5 days actually) and deploy results.
Some tasks were excluded from the need to compete

[vapid jay]

Hey you delete it.. I not visit it

[buoyant seal]

I left it there, just minimized. Click blue

[vapid jay]

Oo sorry

thank you

[west lichen]

Anyone have any glowing reviews for python/AI training for managers

Trying to locate a good bootcamp (vs pre-recorded classes)

[fringe sphinx]

Huh, that’s a new question… you mean, training for how to manage engineering programs, or info about Python/ai for existing SWE managers looking to understand the new landscape?

[west lichen]

I mean more like broad swaths of python

Learning basic programming and capabilities

[fringe sphinx]

What’s your background? (There’s lots of answers)

[dense mesa]

Is this for a product manager

[west lichen]

Yes

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I thought SWE manager

[dense mesa]

Should try and get as much practical engineering work done as possible, talk to your team about their codebase and current issues

[west lichen]

Im fairly literate in JavaScript so coding isnt a problem. But trying to speak my analysts language

So followup.. this is what im looking at taking https://www.learningtree.com/courses/data-science-training-python/ but looking for alternatives if anyone has any 👍

[brazen island]

Can I take it you don't need to become an expert but you just want a high level idea of what the field is about?

[west lichen]

Correct

[brazen island]

I'd say Datacamp is fine for stuff like that, maybe your work might pay for it. Imo Datacamp doesn't make you an expert whatsoever because it's shallow but that's a good thing in your case, you get to dip your toes into the water of many topics.

[surreal swift]

how; to get job without degree

[west lichen]

Bootcamps are great tools to get yourself a portfolio and that can help land a job

[surreal swift]

do portfolio projecs can be simple or have to be really good for junior developer

[west lichen]

Yeah ive debated that but seemed too basic ..

[surreal swift]

i have skills in MERN stack, and have few projects made with it like, ecommerce website,chat app, a game, a vpn
would that be good enough

[west lichen]

Degrees dont prove capability, portfolio projects do..and being able to clearly explain your thought process and story you are trying to tell (unfortunately degrees tend to get your foot in the door.... But once you have a history its not a problem)

[surreal swift]

oo i see

[pine sleet]

You will be competing with people with a bachelors or masters in CS with internships and great projects of their own, so you should prove to employers why they should pick you over those other people

[surreal swift]

ooo, so my projects needs to be more better

[near ocean]

There is no single thing that proves ability
Its not like you cant copy a project word for word

[pine sleet]

yup, CS grads often come out already knowing many soft skills, you will need to learn and practice those on your own

[soft cairn]

Hey guys quick question. I’ve been learning pythons syntax and picking up on it pretty well. Can you get a job learning only Python? Is that possible?

[pine sleet]

Possible? Yes. Likely? Probably not
There are many different things youd need to know on a job, the programming language you use is just one part of it

[soft cairn]

What do you recommend learning?

[pine sleet]

Learn how to work in teams effectively (perhaps using stuff like git/hub), writing clean code to the best of your ability, know the tooling and ecosystem around whatever you're doing. Knowing some devops can't hurt either
Also knowing how to learn quickly and efficiently, chances are you're not going to know exactly everything a company uses inside out. You'll need to pick it up as you go

Of course knowing a couple languages solidly is a good foundation for all else

[soft cairn]

So you recommend learning Python, Java, HTML? I get different information. I’ve had people tell me to get really good at one language start working and learn the rest. So your saying to learn multiple languages? Then apply?

[pine sleet]

don't learn too many, you don't want to stretch yourself thin
Knowing two of "different types" of languages would be a good start (for instance, Python and C)

But honestly there is no hard line that you cross where you can say, "now I can apply"

Apply when you feel confident enough to, worst thing that can happen is you get rejected (which can happen anyway)

[soft cairn]

Like I understand companies will use multiple different languages but a lot of the jobs I look at the qualifications use the “or” word implying Python alone may be enough. I will for sure be a developer I’m just figuring out how to get my foot in the door

[pine sleet]

What is your educational background? Previous work experience? Internships?
You can also leave your resume here for a review

[polar jewel]

I have a nut to crack for the developers/ programmers : From the first time you had interests toward programming to the level that you are right now, Step By Step what was your Journey towards working as a developer for a big company like?

[opal sapphire]

Might I get some feedback on my resume? First page here: https://www.canva.com/design/DADgyk6SsCk/R3-Xi-2vaY2i6F_zzrjohw/edit?utm_content=DADgyk6SsCk&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link2&utm_source=sharebutton

I'm really looking to specialize further on Python and to find myself a job that supports that.

Couldn't past a PDF directly ~_~

[true harness]

screenshot it, that should work

[dense mesa]

Trial and error countless times

[deft herald]

My first experience programming was on a TI-83+ in their flavor of BASIC. That was in, i don't know, 2003 maybe. Couple years later i took a Java class in High School, then i worked for my friends parent's business doing some web design-type stuff (actually kept that job all throughout college). In college i studied Electrical Engineering which involved some programming courses, then eventually got a job in 2012 a year after i graduated, doing some testing and automation for a hardware company. That's where i really learned a lot of the stuff i missed by not getting a degree in CS

[fringe sphinx]

That’s such an open ended question. Happy to answer a specific question, but you’re asking for our life stories with this 🙂

[summer roost]

yeah, I started to type a reply, realized it would be very long, gave up. 😄

[true harness]

I technically work for a big company, and the answer would be pretty short too, heh

[true harness]

an abridged version would just be: i took an intro programming course for fun since i needed another elective. i was good at it. i did it more + go to school for CS

[smoky quest]

• I would advise against multi-column formats since they aren't parsed well by ATSes
• Except for the languages, the skills & ability mentions trivial facts. Also "show, don't tell". Meaning don't tell you are awesome, show it through your projects, education and experience
• You haven't hold a job for more than a year. You should expect questions
• Your last job ended more than a year ago. Expect questions
• You have ~3 years of experience. You may not qualify for senior or tech lead positions in your next role or may expect some push back.
• Your experiences could benefit from a deeper description and impact

[gritty rivet]

Why a "a big company"? Does that matter?

[wanton birch]

That CV looks so nice and clean

[opal sapphire]

That's a lot of useful feedback. Thank you.

As for bullet point 3, that's a worry that has followed me for a while... but can't really do anything about it, it is what it is. As for 4, I'm working rn for a little over 4 months, so I haven't added it there precisely because of point 3. 🥹

I'll be taking the rest in for adjustments.

[true harness]

if it's your current job, you should add it imo. but you want to be ready to answer why you're switching jobs so soon

[opal sapphire]

Oh, thanks 🙂 I've been using it from the start of my career and just incrementally adjusting it as I progress... though I see @smoky quest's point about ASTs becoming increasingly relevant, so I'll have to let it go haha

[smoky quest]

Great!
For points number 3 and 4, there is something you can do:

• Reflect on why you are in this situation
• Be more selective in your next job so you don't have to leave a few months in

[opal sapphire]

You're right. Well, they've hired me for a migration into Python but the roadmap has changed ever since and it doesn't look like it's happening anymore. I've been working on an entirely different tech stack 😦

I think that sounds like a ok answer

[smoky quest]

it's an okay answer if it happens once. But you are 4 jobs in now.
And as a rule of thumb, if it happens once, it can be anything or anyone. But if it happens 4 times in a row, the problem is you

As a recruiter, they would wonder themselves: if you have not been able to hold a job 4 times in a row, why would it be different here?

[fringe sphinx]

reminds me of this wonderful quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqGn-1XX7cI

[smoky quest]

lol exactly

[wanton birch]

Man! Americans know how to elect geniuses for presidents! Thank you people!

@opal sapphire Did you voluntarily leave the 4 jobs?

[opal sapphire]

3 (I'm still on the fourth) but yeah

[wanton birch]

Sad

[opal sapphire]

My first transition was a career leap. My first company hired me as junior and didn't have any processes in place to promote me any time soon. So I went to another company which hired me (not as junior) for double the pay.

Then I only left that because of the pandemic. The work was on site and I wanted to go to the countryside be with my family.

[wanton birch]

Well I hope it works out for you. I actually know several people like that who are doing well. Wish you all the best as well 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

I think everyone's got a free pass (for excusing job hopping) after the last few years. Someone with a few jobs in the past few years barely gets a raised eyebrow from me (altho a few folks here have said differently)

[echo sparrow]

Hello all I am new here.

Just finished up my 8 year career in the US Army. I was a 25B (Information Technology Specialist) and got my Sec+ & Net+. I recently started college majoring in Cyber Security. I started for first classes a few weeks ago. We just started to learn about some programming. All I can say I can do is pretty much print("Hello World!") but it has really piqued my interest and something I am very much looking forward to learning more. Any and all advice about becoming more knowledgeable would be very much appreciated. I am also a very visual learner as in I am shown a example and then do it myself. Thanks again!

[modern ore]

@true harness did you attempt tiktok 🤔

[smoky quest]

Welcome aboard and congrats on the journey!

I don't have anything meaningful to contribute except that you probably meant piqued rather than peaked as it would imply different things 😉

[fringe sphinx]

Hey congrats, I did 4 myself in commo. Many years ago.

[fringe sphinx]

Standard advice is: there’s lots of resources and project idea here. If you get stuck, hit #python-community . Whatever you do: keep writing code… you need a lot of practice to learn it.

[echo sparrow]

I agree! I just don't know where the best place is to start. That's why I am here! and thank you for your service good sir

[fringe sphinx]

!resources is our usual recommendation. On that, a byte of Python and automate the boring stuff are pretty popular. If you like courses, check out CS50p. (Oh and don’t call me sir, I work for a living 😉

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

And thank you!

[echo sparrow]

Touche to that! LOL and hell yeah I will check that out! Thanks you!

[true harness]

role looked too frontend

[stuck tiger]

Falaa pessoal, boa tarde! passando aqui pra falar sobre o canal
Arkkina Music,
um Canal no youtube de Lofi pra programar, estudar, jogar, trabalhar, criar design, pixel art.. etc.
da uma olhadinha! garanto que vocês vão gostar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNdqjRxBz04

[vapid jay]

Hey

[opal sapphire]

Not the right channel nor language lol

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[deep helm]

ohh icic, so in your country cs has all of it

[peak halo]

Yes, though I think it's like that in most countries where higher education is widespread. What country are you in?

[deep helm]

Indonesia. At here, cs, ds, and cyber security are different university programs. But if you choose cs, at your 4th semester, you can choose a specific material (streaming program). Like software engineer, database technology, intelligent system

[vital wyvern]

https://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/FGIB/VetTecTrainingProviders.asp
Look into this if you haven't already-- what program are you looking at for Cybersec?

There's a lot of very poor Cybersecurity programs out there-- with your 8 years of experience already, there's a good chance that you can get into one of the higher prestige universities and get a much higher quality education. Don't settle, your Post 9/11 will cover WGU/SANS for nothing out of pocket. As long as you're willing to make the concession that you're losing full rate MHA, you can knock out a Bachelor's in Applied Cybersecurity for free, and generally very rapidly.

[echo sparrow]

Currently I am living in Buffalo, NY (Hamburg, NY) going to Hilbert College (Private Catholic School) I am definitely going to look into this. No one informed me of this benefit the VA offers. Currently I do need in-person to collect that MHA to help pay for rent. Get 2,060 a month

[vital wyvern]

Ah yeah that's quite a bit more than me. I know some people out that way that also just retired actually.
If you don't mind making the drive to one of the Maryland sites like once a semester or something, you can probably get full rate at SANS since you're out that way anyway.

Feel free to reach out to me with any questions you might have, been in this community and learning Python/C++ for a bit now, also prior military (8 years AD) and doing the same career transition you are.

[echo sparrow]

Hell yeah brother for sure! Always nice to have people to reach out to with questions. That's def something I am going to look into! But yes that 2060 a month comes in extremely clutch lol

[gritty rivet]

My main thought on reading this is that the way to get good at programming is to just build stuff. Career wise the most important things at your stage are doing well in school and getting good internship experience. But for programming specifically, find absolutely any project big or small that is interesting to you and just keep coding--that's kind of all there is to it! Pretty much any cybersecurity task or concept can be applied in Python so just have at it.

[mighty rain]

Any developers in here trying to break into the feild?

[true harness]

what would you say if there were?

[cobalt moat]

So cold applications get internships?

[smoky quest]

comparing to no application, sure.

[cobalt moat]

I’m asking like do I need to go stalk someone on linked in

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't stalk people. It's tricky to find the fine line between looking like a creep and someone who is motivated.
But things you can do:

• Internship season is starting. So apply to the internship ads
• Find a contact at companies you care about and cold apply

[cobalt moat]

Find and contact?

[smoky quest]

Yes. Like a recruiter or a manager that may seem in your area of interest

The main thing is to not sound desperate or stalky

[cobalt moat]

I thought I’m just suppose to submit a resume

[fierce prairie]

hi there

[smoky quest]

if there is an internship ad, then sure. But if there is no internship ad, you will have to give them some context 😉

[fierce prairie]

do any of you know what PBP means

[cobalt moat]

@smoky quest by internship season, is that for summer internships?

[fierce prairie]

yeah

[smoky quest]

yes, for next year summer

[cobalt moat]

Who do I go to, to find internships ads

[fierce prairie]

thanx

[smoky quest]

linkedin, indeed, etc.

[cobalt moat]

So not through my college?

[smoky quest]

try every avenue to maximize your chances. If your college has opportunities to connect you for internship, then try that as well

[modern ore]

career fair if your skewl is good and events

[cobalt moat]

Ye we have a career fair

[vapid jay]

anyone down to help for some $? its about mongodb

[peak halo]

@vapid jay asking for or offering money isn't allowed here.

[vapid jay]

oh alr

[lapis wind]

also wrong channel ask your question in #databases

[vapid jay]

but its there a channel that i can pay someone for help

[peak halo]

There is not.

[lapis wind]

and dont ask to ask!

[vapid jay]

you trippin

he alr told me that dont be a fool an copy him bruv i alr understood

[lapis wind]

The insinuation was you can just go to #databases and ask your question without offering monetary compensation...

[deft herald]

<@&831776746206265384>

[dim bay]

guys is making money on upwork using data analysis skill btter than job?

[fathom vault]

What are the things that will need to get a job after learning python? Is it sufficiant to get a job? if not what should I learn to get a job ?

[dim bay]

you can look at job discription of various job post on LinkedIn or Indeed

[fringe sphinx]

There are lots of jobs in tech. What kind of job are you talking about? If you’re asking about a software engineering job: you need to know more than just ‘Python’ to land a good job.

[deft herald]

Depends on where you are. Most likely it's going to be extremely difficult making the same amount of money to equate to a full-time salaried position

[fringe sphinx]

Freelance work in general is hard to sustain: there’s a lot of people competing with you. But, if you can use it as a stepping stone, …. Meltz said it well

[deft herald]

a lot of people in super low cost of living areas too

[vapid jay]

[dim bay]

I know data analytics profile need some visualization tool like power Bi and tableau, but if I am going for data scince with numpy or pandas library do I need powerBI?

[vapid jay]

My head span like 15 times reading that :/

[deft herald]

Depends on the job. It wouldn't hurt you to get experience with it

[fringe sphinx]

These types of questions are unanswerable: every job and company is different and your background is different. My general answer is: it’s good to know a little about a lot. Have a broad foundation.

[gritty rivet]

Depends on your skills, location and everything else, not to mention what you mean by "better" but generally speaking, no, a job is better if you want to make a comfortable living.

[dim bay]

as data scientist which tool I should focus on / spend my most time learning on at beginning, SQL, or, visualization tool or ML library?

[deft herald]

You should focus on the concepts over the tools. You can always learn tools on the job. Knowing what to do with the data and what kind of visualizations to make is the first step.

In other words; it doesn't matter what tool you learn now. Just learn something that enables you to do science on your data

[dim bay]

thank you for thoughtful answer, it helps

[fathom vault]

Like ? @fringe sphinx

[regal axle]

Does anyone even care about ABET accreditation? I have it but is it even worth putting it on my resume? And if so, where would it go? Education? (I got it with my degree) I don't have other accreditations or certificates. So not like I can make a dedicated section

[leaden jasper]

All the companies and organizations I've worked at required my undergrad degree from an ABET accredited institution. It's not something I would call out specifically on my resume, but it was a requirement for my current and previous employers.

[regal axle]

I have heard that it is super diluted and not really worth much. I was also wondering if other people shared that thought

[leaden jasper]

what is very diluted?

[regal axle]

ABET. As in it doesn't really mean much. I was told that it used to matter but it matters less and less every "day"

[leaden jasper]

I mean, it definitely matters still because my current employer, and previous ones, required my school to be ABET accredited to accept my degree.

Non-ABET accredited schools would be worthless for me.

[true harness]

but kat works in not CS, right?

[leaden jasper]

this is a company-wide policy, irrespective of specific position

[graceful mason]

Related, but to become a licensed engineer in NA you need to have an ABET accredited degree. So any software adjacent engineering career will require ABET

[true harness]

oof

[somber pawn]

Hey there,

I'm a bit confused about what to study at university. I'm really into math and computer science, but at the same time, I've got this urge to understand how things work at the lowest level. So, I'm thinking about going for a degree in math and computer science or diving into electrical engineering, where I can get deep into processors and low-level architecture.

I'm curious how others have handled this kind of dilemma. I've been coding for years and even contributed to CPython(still) but I'm also super interested in the low-level stuff like CPU architecture os development.

Overall, Electrical engineering(EE) is way harder to be self-taught, while the former is relatively easier.

Thanks for your help!

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno: I started as a EE, hated it and switched CS, so I’m a bad person to ask

[near ocean]

Hah, same actually

It was way too mathy, boring hard math imo too
I thought it would be a 50/50 split between physics stuff and programming

[deft herald]

CE or CSE might be for you then. Computer (science) Engineering

[fathom vault]

How much time it usually took you guys to learn python ?

[gritty rivet]

There's no possible way to answer this because there's no defined end point.

[near ocean]

Nowhere, stop

[somber pawn]

you are obviously wrong here, and the fact that you are interrupting a channel with nonsense makes it worse.-

[deft herald]

Been programming in python for ~11 years and i'm still learning things

[white relic]

I got into programming in high school and always thought it was fun but before I registered for classes my first semester, I looked at all the course catalogs and decided to go for computer engineering instead because it had more math and fewer social science electives. So I made programming more of a hobby and focused on electronics. I don't know if the way I went about it was the smartest thing I could have done, but I don't regret it, because I still enjoy programming in a way that I don't know I would be able to if it were most of my day to day job. I do a lot of coding at work and knowing how is extremely useful, but it's not my primary responsibility. YMMV.

[somber pawn]

well, what I don't know is how much its important to know low-level.
I mean learning how to code is not too complicated, but having low-level knowledge can help you to build new things, or know more than average people.
I mean the interesting stuff about EE for me is computer architecture, CPU design etc.
The problem is that it includes a bunch of other stuff which I'm not too interested it.

[white relic]

how much its important to know low-level
not sure I get the point, if you want to design CPUs, it's very important you know electronics, if you want to build web sites probably not so much

computer architecture and CPU design should be covered (at the level of "a couple of undergraduate credit courses") in any CS program worth paying for

[somber pawn]

the problem that I'm facing, is that I'm not sure whether I'd do it 100%. probably I can take courses and learn about it on my own while I'm doing maths & computer science. 🤷‍♂️

[white relic]

I mean, from my experience and observations, it's much easier for a EE (with programming knowledge) to transfer to a CS oriented job (of similar level) than the other way around.

but if you think you don't really want that to begin with I don't think it's worth taking a whole course of study you don't want with the goal of eventually switching to something you like better.

[somber pawn]

btw, did your course cover cpus, computer architecture etc?

[white relic]

yes, more or less

that was like... decade before last. so things have changed a little and I have to keep up with the state of the art rather than relying on school knowledge. But that's part of my job.

[somber pawn]

oh just realised that you are doing research in electronics.

[white relic]

yes, that kind of thing is pretty relevant to my job.

[somber pawn]

is it connected to computer architecture or circuits? If you don't mind.

[buoyant seal]

u may wish consider some Embedded related career if u are that wishing to go that low level for example.
ultimately.. better to check hiring web sites for positions possibly open for the desired job role though

[buoyant seal]

Like... it is great that u have such desires... but... they better line up with Ikigai, for what other people demand and pay
in that regards web dev is great. infinity amount of work.

[somber pawn]

I mean jobs are not too important for me now.

[white relic]

Bit of both. I design digital electronics in a novel (superconducting) logic family. I'm more on the "circuits" side than "CPU design" but I sit in both kinds of meetings.

at least, when I can get myself out of bed.

[somber pawn]

sounds interesting.

[buoyant seal]

considering career/university/studies without aiming for jobs is kind of dissatached from reality to me.
it is great to investigate in advance, what jobs roles exist and match your interests. what skills and other requirements they ask to meet.
having goal, the road leads to target 🙂

[white relic]

I kind of stumbled into it. Would not recommend anyone try to repeat my career path. Not because it was bad but because it was random and lucky.

[buoyant seal]

although since u a just starting to get into university.. that's completely fair.
🙈 i made decision regarding my career only after graduation too anyway

[somber pawn]

I'm not too job-oriented in general, I like to do stuff for myself or make my own things. I can't really imagine myself working for a company. hope it doesn't sound too strange, and not gonna be hurt. 😄

[buoyant seal]

well, perhaps u just have rich enough relatives to afford it or smth.
i remember encountering a person that was telling me similar stuff 🤔 his relatives were filthy rich and had a different philosophy to go, they they teach him

[somber pawn]

I mean, maybe it just sounds too nice to be true, but I think making your own ideas a reality yk all this stuff is kind of nice. you have to have a passion, if you just wanna get a living then that is different. Some people don't even consider this option.

[buoyant seal]

may be it will work for you. But path of having a job is definitely easier to earn money.
startups have statistically quite low chances to flare well.

[somber pawn]

🤷‍♂️

[white relic]

there's a lot to getting paid for your passion even if it is economically feasible

(like... take classes in entrepreneurship)

[peak halo]

it's worth it, though. if you do what you're passionate about, you'll never truly work a day in your life. Because no one is hiring for that.
Oh, fuck!

[somber pawn]

not sure what you mean here, you don't have to suffer and then just die. 😄

[white relic]

everybody wants to follow their passion and get paid for it. But people aren't just going to throw money at you because you're good at something. You need a business plan and clients and probably seed capital and so on.

and what a lot of people realize, is when you add all that stuff to "doing your passion", it might turn out you're a lot less passionate about it than you were when you just imagined people throwing money your way.

[somber pawn]

fair enough

[white relic]

I'm not that passionate about anything. So I work for somebody else who deals with the business plan and begs for money

But there's nothing wrong with being either kind of person. Just know what you're planning to get into.

[buoyant seal]

and i don't have sufficient soft skills to do all the stuff required for entrepreneurship 🤔 that's why i too just work for somebody else.
may be one day i'll grow up for at least small one 😄

[somber pawn]

is it good tho, I mean you have to be passionate about something.

[fringe sphinx]

I love my work, and it’s mostly data engineering stuff that others would find boring.

What motivates me is people who find my work useful. I’ve also been a staff engineer, big tech engineering manager, consultant, founder/ceo (10+ years) over the course of my career, and was passionate about all of it.

[white relic]

Not everyone's passions line up with an economically feasible line of work. There's no shame in saying, my passion is music, but I do data science to pay the bills (or whatever). There are more people who love making music than there are dollars to pay them all pop star wages

[civic isle]

What would y’all say about natural language processing engineer as a career? Please tag in reply(:

[onyx garnet]

What's the best way to get a internship? Should i just sound out my resume? Is there a specific process?

[true harness]

career fairs and other networking is good. other than that, yeah, apply to internship ads

[onyx garnet]

Okay thank you!

[short cliff]

hey guyss

[lilac horizon]

I dont feel myself ready to apply for internships... i leave projects in middle. What should i do.

[true harness]

everyone leaves projects in the middle. they don't need to be "done" to put on a resume

[lilac horizon]

Then how i will get that internship ? I have 2 yrs of clg left.. should I focus on getting internship or to keep making those half projects and learning more concepts.. that make me happy

[pine sleet]

you can do both at once

[true harness]

i don't think you should set out to make half projects. but you can do both at once

[lilac horizon]

Just tell me... do companies recognize half projects ? really?

[true harness]

you would not advertise them as half finished, of course. highlight the interesting parts, don't mention the parts that don't work. honestly, the average project is "half finished". there's always something to add to a project to make it better

[gritty rivet]

You will never feel ready, even after you get an offer, so definitely don't wait for that

But depending what you mean by half-finished, it could be that your projects are poorly defined and/or over ambitious. Have you had any feedback on them?

It's also worth mentioning, that very likely nobody who hires you is going to read your code. The way you present and talk about your projects matters a whole lot

[solemn lynx]

I didn't make as much project and my acadmics is not good , i have some backlogs too but familier with many languages and some technologies , my thought process is that if i learn skills instead of scoring good can land me to a good opportunity . Anyone here can telll me what projects i can make and is acadmics really matters... and how can i land my first internship or job

[gritty rivet]

So you're a university student applying for internships? Have you had much feedback on your resume?

[solemn lynx]

No I don't have but by seeing on my own i think it's very bad one

[deft herald]

"learn skills instead of scoring good"
Why can't these be one in the same? If you score good well, then you will inevitably pick up some employable skills

[solemn lynx]

Can you suggest me some so can decide

[deft herald]

Suggest some what? Skills?

[solemn lynx]

Yes

Like I'm thinking of learning flutter with machine learning

Tell is that good

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling has a lot of project ideas.

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[solemn lynx]

Okay i will see this

[deft herald]

Are you a student?

[solemn lynx]

Yes I'm in my third year of BTech

[deft herald]

BTech?

[solemn lynx]

Bachelor of technology

In Artificial intelligence and data
science

[deft herald]

I see. Well honestly if your grades aren't great, I would focus more on that rather than projects and learning outside of school

[solemn lynx]

Means focus on my academics

[deft herald]

Yes

[solemn lynx]

Okay

[deft herald]

Are you in the US?

[solemn lynx]

No

I'm from india

[plain valley]

I wanna be a front end developer but I need to learn react and sass things like that.

But I really don't wanna skip my clg classes tf I can do?

[deft herald]

What do you mean by clg?

[plain valley]

College .I'm doing major in biotechnology

[deft herald]

Doesn't biology suck though?

[fringe sphinx]

? If you want to be a front end developer, why?

[plain valley]

Yes . That's why I wanna be a developer lol

[deft herald]

Then change your major

[plain valley]

For a front end development you have to study many things like sass react

[plain valley]

I love my campus bruh I don't really wanna change my major and for my gpa I dont have any other choice.

[deft herald]

What year are you?

[fringe sphinx]

I was asking why major in biotech if you want to be a SWE, especially a front end.

[deft herald]

You always have a choice

[plain valley]

What are you asking? I'm 23-27 batch

[fringe sphinx]

So you just started?

[deft herald]

Yeah how far into the program are you?

[plain valley]

Yes. But I want a pretty average cgpa like 7.5 in this course and I wanna learn coding.

[fringe sphinx]

(Meltz all yours, you’re spitting facts!)

[plain valley]

I know little bit of python and html css learning javascript rn. But I don't have enough time to that.

[deft herald]

Don't study something that you don't want to do. And don't base your selection of major off of the campus you're living at for a few (partial) years. Make that choice based on what you want to do for the rest of your life

I didn't switch majors but I switched colleges halfway through my degree and it set me back a whole year. Best decision I made

[fringe sphinx]

I switched EE to CS

[plain valley]

Thanks . I thought about this thousand times but I really want a degree and if I study in this campus (specifically this course)I can get a chance to go abroad and I can do whatever I want.

[deft herald]

I'm not telling you to drop out; just to switch your major. You don't have to study bio

[plain valley]

And my college is different. In biotechnology u have to study 4 major subjects. And for rest it's your will. You can study whatever you want. Like I'm gonna do a csc degree with my biotech.

[plain valley]

Yes this is Engineering biotechnology so it doesn't have biology for 6 exams.

[deft herald]

Yeah but overall, does that set you up for what you actually want to do?

[plain valley]

Yes this credit based system is awesome. But we have to put that hard work.

[deft herald]

🤷‍♂️ alright well, obviously you know your situation better than me. My advice is to seriously consider changing your major to something you actually want. If that for some reason means changing schools, then I guess that's a tough choice

[plain valley]

Yes thank you. But I'm not that hard working person I'm trying to figure out my limit on my studies

[balmy wedge]

this doesnt have to do with python specifically, but should I still do Bachelor of IT/Compsci
Apparenlty my friend at school said AI was gonna replace these jobs
in that case should i go with Bachelor of AI??
like willl I still have a IT job in 30 years time?

@rough ridge

[smoky quest]

no one can predict what is going to happen in 30 years, let alone 10 years.
But that's not something I would worry about since, if anything, it's just going to be a more fancy tool. So your bs won't be wasted

[balmy wedge]

bro ai has already started making video

[smoky quest]

A degree is not meant to train you to piss code. It's meant to train you as a software engineer able to undertake problems

[smoky quest]

bro and who is telling it what video to make and how?

[balmy wedge]

isnt IT just like mostly repetitive tasks

like setitng up virtual machines and stuff

[smoky quest]

bro, IT is like setting the infra for the company to operate bro.
AI ain't gonna screw these access points by itself and configure them bro

[balmy wedge]

software engineering is less repetitive ig

[kindred oyster]

every company is different with different needs. There will always be variety

[balmy wedge]

nah but surely the difficulty of the task will be greatly reduced and this might reduce salary or even qualification required

[smoky quest]

bro, if your job can easily be replaced by an ai, it aint a bro job bro

If people go to school for 4-5 years full time, it's not something an AI can easily replace

[balmy wedge]

bro a company in china replaced their CEO with chatgpt

[smoky quest]

bro I heard an AI replaces an AI bro

[balmy wedge]

anything can happen

[smoky quest]

definitely. And AIs will start by the easy job to replace, the repetitive ones. They will still need people to control them and guide them and giving them instructions. A bit like code

[balmy wedge]

Why tf this chat have slowmode

[kindred oyster]

take on a career that will teach you to create AI
if its going to take over everything , it sure as hell would need people who know how to write good AI

[balmy wedge]

ok so Bachelor of AI?

[smoky quest]

I for one welcome our next AI writing AIs to replace AIs bro

[smoky quest]

CS is more general than AI. So AI would get you stuck in it

[balmy wedge]

Wb Bachelor of IT?

[smoky quest]

that's lower job and lower pay

[kindred oyster]

yeah , but that AI who is good enough to write a whole another AI is still kinda in future tho

[smoky quest]

It already exist to some extent, albeit in limited contexts since the solution space is huge

[barren marsh]

So I'm in the process of almost finishing up C++ & have some questions. Would you guys prefer python over c++ if so how come? Also which language would be the most viable as an all purpose language? Asking these question because I am not sure which one would be most beneficial in my future with coding

[balmy wedge]

python is better all-purpose

[smoky quest]

This depends on the role and job. Some job would rather go with one and some other jobs with the other

[balmy wedge]

but c++ good for programming jjobs

[kindred oyster]

the generic answer to all questions - it all depends on what you want to do

[barren marsh]

I am mostly invloved within the game development aspect & am more seeking towards that area. Such as doing GUI's, player interacts, everything within game interations basically. In addition learning to do some form of cyber protection

[balmy wedge]

c++ good for game development

[smoky quest]

You can look at programming languages like tools like a screw driver. It's not about the tool but what you do with them. Whether you fix your bike or build a space rocket

[kindred oyster]

then C++ would be a better choice than python (for game dev part)

[smoky quest]

gamedev jobs will be something along C# if using unity or C++ if using unreal or even some other scripting language on custom engines

[balmy wedge]

c# is gonna be for like indie games

but anyone knowing c++ could easily learn c# anyway

[kindred oyster]

source ?

[balmy wedge]

cuz unity games u see on online web games and mobile games

[smoky quest]

like cities skyline, pokemon go?

[balmy wedge]

cities skylines came out like 2015

[smoky quest]

either way, it doesn't matter. Any good engineer can pick up a language in a few days

[smoky quest]

What is your situation, context, educational background, professional experience?

[balmy wedge]

Fk man well anyone knwoing c++ could easily learn any language

[smoky quest]

same goes with people who know python

[barren marsh]

Would you mind getting into a vc so I can explain more swiftly?

[smoky quest]

nope. Let's do it here

[balmy wedge]

c++ is easier to transition to c# tho cuz they are both object based

python is less transferrable but good for lighter tasks cuz more portable

[kindred oyster]

since when did python happen to be non object based ?

[smoky quest]

doesn't even matter.
Any student coming out of a BSc will have seen oop, fp and some other paradigms, even so far as seeing like 5 different programming languages

[balmy wedge]

guess i should not do IT then going to start my construction company

[smoky quest]

nope bro. CS is best

[kindred oyster]

if you dont know much python , sure
btw AI and ML dev using python sure as hell dont sound like light tasks for me

[balmy wedge]

might as well just grind certs honestly

[smoky quest]

certs are worth nothing

[balmy wedge]

if i major cyberseecurity which is good minor

like additional one that is useful

[kindred oyster]

cyber assurance sounds kinda linked

[smoky quest]

AI and ML can be useful
So would cloud or cyber assurance.
Data anlysis could impart some skills

cyber assurance seems related but doesn't mean much on its own.

[balmy wedge]

yeah i was thinking between AI/ML and Cloud

[barren marsh]

Alright. So I am jumping into the side of coding involving the c++ language. I have no professional experience but am aware on the difficulties being pretty fresh starting with a later tiered language. I have been holding on pretty well just strictly learning through my lessons & absorbing the information I have been receiving. Now as to why I am asking which language is most preferred is because I have been hearing now & even in the past that all these certain languages are most preferred for specific tasks. What I am trying to understand is which one would be the most universal & effective for all purpose duties. Also where would I begin to start practicing what I learned & which place may I learn that doesn't have all these paid subscriptions?

[smoky quest]

you could google kdd99 as a concrete example. But as the title implies, that's now like 20+ years old

[smoky quest]

Sounds like you are still a beginner.
So I would suggest to start with godot and make something simple. Get the hang of it. No need to overdo it with low level languages like C++.
And for the games, I mean something like pong or tetris

[balmy wedge]

since when was c++ low level i thought it was the highest

[smoky quest]

lmao no. It's quite low level comparing to the rest.
They have plenty of time before worrying about C++

they won't be making any AAA game running on the ps5 next month

[barren marsh]

Appreciate you're help recursive. The words were needed to direct where I am going with this. Now as for the initial question in the beginning of my last questions would it be best for me to stick with C++ for if I seek the all purposes or would you recommend me trying another language for that?

[smoky quest]

languages are like tools like a screw driver.
If you have never made a game, worry about making games, not about building your own engine and screwing every screw manually.
At your stage it's more important to understand how to make a game, what are the techniques about games instead of dealing about the low level details of the engine.

Think about it this way: you want to build a car and you want a car at the end.
You can either worry about C++ and learn about pistons and how to build your own engine, or you can use an existing engine and build a game.
At your stage you should prioritize the latter

So pick the most high level tool you can find, even if it's something like game maker.
But godot is a great game engine with a high level programming language where you can get result quickly and not get stuck in details that don't matter to you like pointers to memory

Once you get the hang of making a game, then you can start to worry about some of the details like writing your own shaders or doing something native for some parts

But again, why do you care about the composition of the glass of your window when you have never built a car and are trying to build a car. Just buy a damn window

[smoky quest]

just to be clear, if your goal is to work at blizzard or EA, then you should:

• Start building games with tools like godot or unity
• Aim for a CS degree

[barren marsh]

Alright I will stick with what has been told & referred to me by you. I'll look into & begin with godot then move to unity. Thank you recursive_error it's been a pleasure. I appreciate you're help

[smoky quest]

good luck!
You may also be interested in the coding train on youtube.
And it's a journey so don't worry too much as long as you make progress

[barren marsh]

Have a goodnight man hope everything goes well for you as well!

[elfin marsh]

is taking up computer science because u need the money and want the money bad motivation . I have done a few projects at work for automation in excel and video batching using python.

[smoky quest]

it's not that it's bad, it's more about:

• Doing something you hate for 40 years can be quite painful when you could spend that time doing something you enjoy more
• Not being motivated means others who enjoy it will have an easier time than you and you will have a more difficult time competing for the same positions

[ebon kindle]

Hey to all the seniors here, how do you go about saving everything you have learned over the years, few months back I learned a lot about python Gil when I was working on a project, now in a conversation with a colleague GIL came up and I was surprised at how vague of a idea I had even though I remember studying about it a lot. This makes me wonder what's the point of years of experience if I am just gonna forget all the things that are not stored in my recent memory. Curious to know how others deal with this

[celest kite]

There's definitely something to be said about memory training. Some people are more naturally gifted at recall than others. It doesn't mean you can't but it might mean that you need to focus on this area more

I fall in the latter group. I have excellent natural recall; so I can't help you with any training resources. But I am aware they exist.

[spark cobalt]

(Not a senior, but how I managed to somewhat overcome this situation.) I have shitty memory, so everything I learn or everything I need to know is always written somewhere. And it goes all the way down to very small things in everyday life, like grocery list, or list of things I need to bring for x thing, to everyday studies/what I learn/etc. Ime (and I've done this mistake as well), a lot of people take notes just to take notes, without an intention to take notes for exactly the situation you describe: you need a briefer that doesn't necessarily go into all the minute details.

[leaden jasper]

I like to take notes in Obsidian for my work-related deep dives, both as a way to check my understanding and as something I can reference months later if I'm asked about the topic again.

Because it's fancy markdown, I generally have broad points as the least-indented and then get as detailed as I want in sub bullets. I can collapse the first-level indent so it's still easy to skim. If I need to go into the weeds, then I expand the sub-bullets.

But if you tend to do very deep technical dives into subjects, but also switch between projects/techs then definitely take notes you can refer to later

[ebon kindle]

Love the idea!

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t remember details of things I’m not using, nor do I worry about it. Engineering isn’t about being an encyclopedia with perfect recall of various facts. I generally remember the highlights: the ‘so what’. Like; doing xyz is bad, or you can do Z with this api, or Python does not have free threading due to the GIL

[fathom vault]

Guys I am learning python for 14/15 days. I try to do some projects like Higher Lower Game, Coffee Machine Game. I find it hard to solve everything. I am lagging at logic. Is it normal or i am too dumb ? If so How can I improve it ?

[pine sleet]

Keep practicing, you're only two weeks in :P

[fathom vault]

Guys let's connect on Twitter

Let's grow on Twitter it will help us

[pine sleet]

[lapis wind]

Sorry I only know X

[buoyant seal]

Twitter died :/

[fathom vault]

Lets Connect on X then @lapis wind

[deft herald]

Let's grow on Twitter
What does this mean?

[gritty rivet]

<@&831776746206265384> rules 4 & 6

[sand patio]

@lethal python please don't advertise here.

[karmic cloak]

Can i become a software in degree route? I am studying BSC computer science 2nd year from india

[celest kite]

I do not think we currently possess the technical capabilities necessary for you to become software.

[deft herald]

That's giving off some TRON vibes

[karmic cloak]

I didn't get it

[celest kite]

One man's tron in another's ghost in the shell

[fringe sphinx]

Just an english grammar / dad joke .. "Can I become a software" vs "Can I become a software engineer".

[deft herald]

Yeah we're just joking. I understand English is probably your second not first language

[fringe sphinx]

I don't understand your question though. Can you become a software engineer "with" a degree? Of course. Why is that a question? Or are you asking about "without" a degree?

[karmic cloak]

Yes

[balmy bramble]

Hey guys need some tips on what to do next.

So I had my performance review for my 3 month internship and it was exclusively positive but my company lost a lot of clients (its a software house) and they fired 30 employees. Due to this my contract won't be extended..

They promised to give me a recommendation letter and some tips to work on my cv. They also promised to call me back if they got more projects but that would be until next year most probably.

So what's the standard routine for devs after kind getting "laid off", I'm a full time uni student but since my uni isn't that complex I can pass without studying.
I was thinking of perhaps working at a mcdonalds or helpdesk while applying to more jobs but it honestly sucks that I lost this massive opportunity that took me months to get

[karmic cloak]

Actually we have 2 different routes here Btech(4years course and high chance of getting job)
And Degree quite low chances

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, ok, I don't really know then... but I know there's other folks from India / know the system who can prob answer!

[karmic cloak]

Yeah waiting for them

[cobalt moat]

is it weird to list highschool teachers as a reference?

[deft herald]

Reference for what? For a personal reference no...as a professional reference, yeah probably

[cobalt moat]

for a scholarship\

[deft herald]

Ok, then yeah that makes perfect sense

I think those are the exact people they're looking for 🙂

[cobalt moat]

feels weird

[deft herald]

why?

[true harness]

depends on what the scholarship is asking for. for academic scholarships, they're kinda all you have. assuming you're going into college

[fathom vault]

That's mean if we follow each other on Twitter we can grow our account

[silver jacinth]

I get paid to go to college

[dim bay]

what is fastest way to get first dollar using programming/ analysis, or any other tech related stuff?

[fringe sphinx]

What are you asking?

Looking for a life hack? 🙂

[dim bay]

I am asking what's fastest way to start income stream , even though it's small, using /learning any software tool or something , so I can maintain my expenses while I grind for big job

[buoyant seal]

experience for one IT job is kind of not always helping for other IT job roles.
for example QA job role is easy to enter. Yet it is kind of potentially dead end career job role which having hard time to transition to any other job role.

System Administrator is kind of potentially nice one. easy to enter too. has more room for job roles ahead of it
But if your responsibilities are small and not really relevant for growth, this role will not help moving towards better job roles at all too

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, there’s lots of jobs in tech. Find one with low degree requirements that you’re interested in.

[dim bay]

No I am looking more kind of some freelance, or some online earn money by like spending time doing some task for somebody kind of thing, I know data entry is one but that's kind lowest end , game testing also can be done on contract base I guess just to pay bills

[buoyant seal]

Frontend development is considered as easy to enter too. It has kind of potential room for growth into full stack etc stuff.
it can highly affect career if being first job too though.
Has high competion due to too many people from online courses going into this one first though

[buoyant seal]

Freelancing market has kind of very high competion, u will compete with all the people from low cost countires (billions of indians for example)
not very welcoming to beginners market
Remote job is usually not very available for beginner positions too.

[dim bay]

ya it's tough for beginners , hard to sustain through transition time from one career to other

[buoyant seal]

u can ensure highly likely your IT career if u will attend university for CS degree 😉

[dim bay]

how long it takes to prepare and break data analyst job interview?

[white relic]

there are so many variables in that question that it's not possible to give a useful general answer

[solemn lynx]

itsanmollll Find meon on x

[vapid jay]

Would it be better to work as a software engineer or is there any way I can work on physics and code? Like quantum conputers

[peak halo]

whether one or the other is "better" depends on your priorities.

I'm not sure what all the applications there are for "physics and code", but some of them might be developing game engines and/or physics engines (these aren't mutually exclusive). This is something that's very specialized, so those positions would be fewer, but pay better than less specialized positions.

Working on quantum computing would almost certainly require a PhD in physics or computer science.

As an aside, I'm not convinced that quantum computing will ever be as disruptive as people say it's going to be.

[compact shard]

ignore that, i usually send the channel to click it instead of moving cuz i have no scroll wheel & im lazy to use ctrl+k

[peak halo]

be sure that any messages you send that aren't for a conversation are in #bot-commands

[compact shard]

will keep that in mind for next times

[vapid jay]

yes

[tulip quiver]

I’m currently looking for data science internships. I plan to use PyDeck to deploy the models or visualization for short term just to put it on the resume. Is it ideal or would one still prefer flask and so on?

It’s because I don’t have the time to learn flask right now and pydeck seems to be pretty straight forward without much learning curve.

[dense finch]

I just did it today. Tell people you develop websites. Everyone wants a website.

[peak halo]

I work in AI, and I haven't heard of PyDeck.

Are you a university student, and if so, does your university have a career services center?

[patent lotus]

on a serious note is cyber security worth pursuing as a career because ik there’s lots of money But is it like banking when u work 12hrs a day and don’t see ur family

[tulip quiver]

hey, do you mind if i dm you?

[peak halo]

it's better that you ask your question in this chat.

[tulip quiver]

yes, i goto utd

[true harness]

it is not like finance

[tulip quiver]

and i am a senior right now

i also wanted to ask whether it was worth pursuing master if i wanna get into AI

because again its also a lot of money and whether it'd be better to just gain experience and certifications such as tensorflow developer

i eventually i wanna get the machine learning practioner

the aws certification, or at least thats my goal right now

[peak halo]

you don't have to say what exact university you go to. but if you're currently a senior, you probably can't get an internship at this point, because those are typically reserved for non-degree holders. and you'll presumably finish your degree by this summer.

In your position (and almost every possible position), getting a AI-related certificate would be a tremendous waste of money. If you don't already have significant coursework or internship experience related to AI as a new CS bachelors recipient, you will need to go to grad school to get a job in that space. Nothing else will cut it.

[tulip quiver]

because i majored in computer science, and i recently got into machine learning

i learned nothing about machine learning from school and it was mostly just self study

[peak halo]

right, getting an undergraduate degree in CS is a key step for most avenues to AI/ML careers.

[tulip quiver]

ive completed basic machine learning stuffs and am moving onto deep learning

[peak halo]

then at this point, going to grad school for CS with an emphasis on AI/ML is your best move. Anything else is unlikely to work.

[tulip quiver]

but yes, i did realize when i was looking for internships that most of the qualification was masters and little opportunities for those with bachelors

so even if i am able to gain practical experience till the time i graduate which i still have a year., i wont have a chance?

[peak halo]

Nope

[tulip quiver]

interesting, do you think the aws certifications are worth tho?

[peak halo]

Whatever practical experience you might be able to gain by then won't be perceived as that valuable by prospective employers. At best, it would augment your application if you had AI/ML internships under your belt, or good grades in AI/ML courses, or a research assistantship.

I don't think any of my coworkers have AWS certifications. Save your money.

you might see if a CS professor who focuses on AI/ML is willing to take you under their wing for the rest of the school year, but you'd have to really hustle to accomplish something that prospective employers would value by the end of the year.

Though even if you don't accomplish something that a prospective employer would care about, a research assistantship would make a grad school application more competitive.

[tulip quiver]

i see

uhm perhaps i hadn't specified what internships i was applying to, it was actually for data scientist role

[peak halo]

there's no consistency in what a "data scientist" is.

[tulip quiver]

so it wouldn't help?

[peak halo]

if you want to work in AI/ML, and you get a data scientist internship that involves ML (some do, some don't), that would help. but I think it's too late for you to get an internship, if you graduate at the end of this school year.

internships are for non-degree holders. you will have finished your degree by this summer.

[tulip quiver]

if you don't mind me, where are you based?

[peak halo]

non-degree holders, or current students, I should say.

Washington, DC.

[tulip quiver]

i see, how do you recommend i learn machine learning in the meantime then?

[peak halo]

what math courses have you taken?

[tulip quiver]

ive been taking andrews ngs course right now and really want to finish his nlp specialization and deep learning specialization

ive taken linear, discrete2, stats, automata theory

[peak halo]

have you taken multivariate calculus?

[tulip quiver]

calc2 those were the ones required for cs degree

and ive done inferential statistics by myself

[peak halo]

you should probably look into how you can continue on to the masters program at your university, or what you would need to do to apply to others (you may or may not have to take the GRE).

[civic isle]

I’m learning Django right now and trying to get a job in that, but what’s another framework(whether in Python or not it doesn’t matter) that would be good to learn to make sure I can have a career in web development in the future? Please tag in reply

[tulip quiver]

ah yes i have looked into it, the main factor is just the cost for m e

[peak halo]

I don't have a good solution for that, unfortunately. education is stupidly expensive.

[tulip quiver]

so i wasn't really sure whether experience was valued or a degree in the ai field and whether to pursue masters paying idk 20k+ a year

[peak halo]

ask that in #community-meta

[peak halo]

experience is valued, but the value of a given person's self-study is so hard for prospective employers to measure that they don't.

[tulip quiver]

i see, thank you for your tim e

[peak halo]

!warn 1150333644494340096 This isn't a meme-posting server--please don't post memes.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @vapid jay.

[tulip quiver]

@peak halo also one more question, does it matter where you get your masters from?

Ive seen a lot of online master degrees for data science

and what masters would be considered? because at some point i also considered masters in something math related or does it need to be datascience

[peak halo]

It just needs to be from an accredited university. What's more important is that the university has opportunities that relate to your goals, such as having research faculty that work in your area of interest.

I think online masters degrees in data science are more about collecting money for the university from those who are desperate to switch careers than they are intended to impart marketable skills.

[tulip quiver]

i see because i found a program for utaustin

[peak halo]

The term "data science" is very hyped and doesn't have established standards. As opposed to computer science.

[tulip quiver]

masters of aritificial intelligence but it says its online

i see i thought data science would be more suitable as one notable difference in bachelors in cs vs data science in my uni is that data science is math heavy