career-advice

[glossy summit]

The thing is I have tried but failed

[uncut nexus]

try again

and fail, then do again..
if u give up that easily... rust compiler is going to cook you

[glossy summit]

I am fed up with it, I just want to study in peace....

[uncut nexus]

do that, are people getting into you life without permission ?

[glossy summit]

its boys hostel, u in hostel?

[uncut nexus]

no

[glossy summit]

then u wont get the pressure from friends, little to no privacy and specially the costly living in college with shitty dorm food

[uncut nexus]

then u dont need those friends

[glossy summit]

I need friends, that want to learn, with me

[uncut nexus]

id rather have no friends for a few years than to have the one that fuck up,
have friends in disocrd

[glossy summit]

my current ones are always playing or secretly studying

[lavish canopy]

Do you guys recommend learning python while I learn 3d modeling for future career possibilities? While young

[sleek egret]

sure, why not

[uncut nexus]

hmm , yh you can have a lot of fun with in blender

[sleek egret]

you are on a python discord server. everyone will always recommend that you learn python.

[lavish canopy]

ok

[deft herald]

What language(s) does 3d modeling software use? Aren't most of them scriptable?

[sleek egret]

most people using such software drag around widgets, connect lines, and fill in forms

[glossy summit]

unity uses c#, python for blender etc

autocad is for drag and drop and is paid

[lavish canopy]

Does it work wi unreal engine or only c++?

[uncut nexus]

ok imma go, but there is the resume if anyone wants to give any kind of input, also thanks @fringe sphinx @true harness

[shrewd gull]

I did that, then eventually switched from mechanical to software.

[grizzled fractal]

I made a website with my friend for a website design competition
I wasn't the only developer, it was both of us
we won 1st place nationally for our website
am I still allowed to put that on my resume as a project, and if so do I have to specify that it wasn't just me and it was one other person

[true harness]

you don't have to put anything. but i think the teamwork aspect might be something to highlight

[grizzled fractal]

so if i word it correctly the collaboration would make it more impressive rather than less

[true harness]

i think so. though i'm not a recruiter or hiring manager or anything

[open cradle]

My opinion. Everything is so subjective 🙂

• The header with "contact" has way many things. Are all of them needed? Is your discord account needed when searching for a job?

• The idea of the two columns layout is to somehow split two different types of information that typically belong to different categories or nature. If information is mixed within these two, it just confuses me more (mainly first 5 seconds after looking at your CV) This one is highly subjective. I have two columns in my CV too

• Icons and font are cool

• Maybe it is just me, but if I read "B.Tech - CSE (DS)" I have literally no idea what you are studying. Thinking that your resume will be read by not only technical people, using not so many acronyms could be helpful. Edit: I kust realized that the E in CSE stands for Engineering. At least I know CSE now

• Be careful with your location. At first, just by watching the "GPS" spot, I thought you were in India. Then, I saw you are living in Geneva. Maybe your nationality icon can be easily seen as your current location. Or is it remote work?

• For this point, maybe it is just me. But the job descriptions do not seem so descriptive. When I saw that in "Joker Paris" you were working with MySQL (I have no idea about it tho), having "Created workflow to consume income high volume data", isn't that expected for these database technologies? What challenges did you overcome? Like, for a job that was for an entire year I would expect a little bit more

• In Gametool Networks there is a typo. Thier -> Their

[icy scarab]

hi! i pair programmed with a junior dev all week and ended up completing the jira ticket. and she took the credit for the work. i feel extremely shitty…any advice on how to move past this?

if anything, it left a bad taste in my mouth. and i feel less inclined to help her in the future

[harsh river]

how did the "pairing" come to be? what's your role in this? are you an intern or?

[icy scarab]

i'm mid, she's junior

[true harness]

what does "mid" mean?

[icy scarab]

mid-level, 3 to 5 years of experience

[summer roost]

so if I understand you, you spent 5 days helping someone more junior than you complete a task, and you're worried that those above you will perceive the completed task as solely the accomplishment of the more junior member of the team, rather than understanding that their success was in large part due to your assistance and engagement?

[icy scarab]

it would have been nice to get a shout out during stand up

[summer roost]

fair enough, but - what did you say at standup for the 4 days earlier this week? The usual format of a standup is what I did yesterday, what I'm doing today, and whether I've hit any blockers... wouldn't your team members already know that you've been helping your more junior teammates based on all the updates you've been giving at standup all week long?

[icy scarab]

think i mentioned i helped various people on various things

didn't really call out the name individually, i never do

[summer roost]

so what you said all week was just "I'm helping various people with various things", and then you were upset that at the end of the week people didn't know how important your contributions were? I mean, it's reasonable to tell the junior developer that you wish she'd given you credit, of course. If someone offends you, you should let them know that, rather than just silently stewing over it. But it sounds like a big part of why you didn't get credit is that you didn't tell people what you were working on...

[icy scarab]

i dunno, maybe

[summer roost]

why maybe? Don't you think much of the responsibility for making sure people know what you're working on lies with you?

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't even sweat about trifles.

Own the fact you helped someone succeed and be generous with credits yourself. But there shouldn't really be a need to demand credit for something the intern did. It's not like you are in competition with her.

[harsh hinge]

Middle?

Kidding, its a term people use to call something second rate i think

[summer roost]

it is, but that's clearly not what the OP meant by it

[balmy spade]

In the last 40 hours of work I've spent and astounding 19 of them in pair calls with other junior devs. That's nearly half my work week before we even start on meetings. Dailies (stand-ups) include a call out to "much of the day was spent assisting with X project". I leave names out of stand-ups. My weekly sync with my leader includes details of who I helped, for how long, on what project, and where I feel their wins/opportunities currently are. We also sync on if my time is being well spent or if I need to decline requests for my time to focus down on other deliverables.

I had to get into the habit of writing all these things down on the daily. Wrote myself a program to help me with that. It's proven to be invaluable in communicating the state of the state with my leadership.

The takeaway I see for you to consider is to push your communication comfort zone out. You need to feel comfortable saying "N hour(s) of my day were helping on X".

As for how you should feel for someone claiming credit on work; I can only relate to my own experience. Junior devs on the teams I help certainly claim "I finished this task" when the product is delivered. Did they? Well, yeah. I think they deserve a clap on the back for that too. I only helped.

If someone were to actually try and snipe 100% credit, they'd only land on their face sooner than later. Heh. Doing good work just gets you more work. That and, going back to communication, I know that my team is well aware of where my time is being spent. Took some practice to learn how to tell them but it's been worth every awkward moment of learning.

[uncut nexus]

First of all thanks for taking out your time and giving feedback

• well i did it because i thought it was ok to do 🥲

• in which regard the information is mixed ?

• btech cse is a pretty standard short form tho 🤔

• the job was for a month not a year, i solved a very specific task about processing all the incoming form data from various platforms

• oops, ty good catch

[stuck moss]

Hi guys i have doubt about An Idealogy , ill ask what it is ,please give your opinion

I am going lecture Python to people in real i mean , i goto the students home and teach them python

case 1 :
is it better to Teach 5 students advanced python and Earn 5 lakhs(1lakh per person)

case 2:
OR to Teach 50 people Intermediate level python and Earn 5 lakhs(10000 per person)

[smoky quest]

is it your first time teaching?
If so, start small so you can work out the kinks and learn from it
It will also give you a better perspective on the next steps

[stuck moss]

i have already thought 10
people

and coached 20 guys in fitness

so teaching is not new for m

but still i absolutely agree with you, i need to start small

but i am asking Quality or Quantity

[summer roost]

I'd strongly suspect that tutoring more advanced students is easier than less advanced ones, and one-one-one is easier than large groups

For the same pay, I'd guess that the individual advanced Python lessons would be less work. Especially if you can fire clients you don't get along well with

[stuck moss]

yeah you are right , And I did not think about the firing the clients who do not get along

good point😉🫵

[buoyant seal]

Sounds same to me. 50 students will be merged into uncontrollable mess that u can hardly supervise or impact @stuck moss
5 students? U can be gaining from them, as they gain from you

[civic karma]

How old an actual programmer can get ?

40 to 45 ?

[harsh river]

a programmer can be of any age

[stuck moss]

Thank you Darkwind bro for your opinion , even i thought the Same as you guys

i wanted to know few other opinions , and i got it , Thanks 😉👍

[open cradle]

The CVs I see with two columns would split the information according to how "technical" it is. For example, in one column some people would put a short introduction of themselves + contact, languages data of interest... Stuff to get them know better. And on the other side work experience, projects, academic background... Again, this is just a matter of opinions!

About BTech CSE it just confused me that I am used to see CS but not CSE. I come from a country where CS title is not left in english. Maybe that could be why 😅

If the job was for a month then it is fine!

[open cradle]

I guess as long as you dont die, any age

[vapid jay]

In depends on the state but usually the younger the better so they can pay less

[lapis garnet]

As a 16 year old in the UK, is there anyway i can get paid to program? it doesn’t have to necessarily be a full fledged job, just a way i can do what i enjoy most and earn some money from it

[gilded valley]

no, not really

[open cradle]

The only way I can think about is those challenge based portals or in portals like fever

[dense rose]

Hello, can I ask a question after you learned the basics of python what you should do next? Is there a roadmap for python?

[upper flume]

you have to make your own plan

or better, you get to make your own plan

[dense rose]

I'm still an undergrad, and I don't know what to do, and someone told me to practice leetcode problems, is it okay to do it after I learned the basics of python?

[upper flume]

you don't know what to do, in order to achieve what? i can't plan for you, if i don't know what you are trying to do.
also, you are placing far too much trust in random strangers, don't let someone else plan projects for you. you need to trust in you.

[dense rose]

I'm just asking for ideas, so that I can think of a plan

[upper flume]

ah i understand now

[open cradle]

In my opinion, leetcode is just a small subset of what you should learn. I say this because many companies will do these tests to enter, but then most jobs do not require this type of skills. They mainly ask it because it is the only quick way to test a programmer. You cannot ask them for a big project. It all depends on the job type tho

About what to learn, I would split it into three categories:

• Advanced Python core concepts: Python based concepts that can be useful for any job eventually: closures, decorator factories, advanced testing techniques, memory management...
• Generic software core concepts: OOP, patterns, software architecture, production ready code...
• Specific skills: If you already know the kind of job you want, working on those specific skills would be also needed eventually: web developer, data science, robotics...

[dense rose]

Thank you 🙂

[open cradle]

Good luck!

[primal vessel]

I am from a non tech background (mech engg.+ Mba marketing) (Work Ex- Sales) can anyone please suggest me on how can I break into tech industry? please? I know the basics of SQL well and I am learning python from dataquest. I would like to get into data domain.

I am from India

[sleek egret]

"How old an actual programmer can get ?" <= that was lol

[wooden basalt]

Somewhere between "Queen" and "career soldier".

[sleek egret]

is that mid?

[fringe sphinx]

Find your own path, but a path I recommend (if you’re serious about software engineering as a career): Python tutorial -> do some projects (see !kindling) to reinforce learning -> cs50p or cs50x (equivalent to intro to programming in college) -> DSA -> a little leetcode (you should be comfortable with leetcode easy) -> more projects

[hearty island]

^this guy gives good advice

[sleek egret]

after getting middling at python, you should start to learn a variety of other programming languages

focus on those that are very different, like SQL or C

popularity helps from a job perspective, of course

[young hazel]

If i think i am relatively good at python and i want to learn another language, should i start learning javascript, c++ or antoher language

[fringe sphinx]

Agree: That’s one of the reasons I like the cs50x plan, it’s a broad survey: https://cs50.harvard.edu/x/2023/weeks/

[dense rose]

does the project you are talking about is web development?

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling has lots of projects, of all types.

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[dense rose]

okay, thanks👌🏽

[pastel thunder]

yeah, its crazy how i entered as complete novice to CS and learned so much diversity, even now i often feel surprised how API, AI, web dev, DSA all those things have been included in just a one month course

[fringe sphinx]

That's awesome! Always be learning 🙂 Oh, I think I misread what you wrote. Yah: CS50x is too much for an intro to an absolute beginner. I think CS50P is the appropriate first place for learning Python (or some other tutorial, I don't have an opinion), and CS50X makes sense after you've learned that first language and you're ready to branch out. This is the CS50p curriculum: https://cs50.harvard.edu/python/2022/weeks/

[undone lantern]

true

[sleek egret]

IIRC, about half of students taking CS50x are absolute beginners

[fringe sphinx]

I mean that: most universities intro to programming is more like CS50P than CS50X: single language focused, comparable to AP CS.

but, I dunno about cs50x in particular, it seems unusual to me.

[sleek egret]

why? it's the first class for CS majors

I wasn't quite right... the quotes I'm seeing say "2/3 have never taken a computer science course before". that said, the course description does say "no prior programming experience is required"

[fringe sphinx]

I believe that most CS intro classes are single language focused, very comparable to the AP CS curriculum. For example, Stanford's intro class is Java centric: https://see.stanford.edu/Course/CS106A . Our state university system follows a similar curriculum (they're in process of switching from Java to Python).

And I personally think the single-language intros are better than the broader courses, but I'm not an educator so who knows 🙂

[sleek egret]

yes, my intro class used a single language (pascal) as well

[fringe sphinx]

borland turbo pascal ftw!

[sleek egret]

but that rapidly changed

classes became more like, "welcome to expert systems 315. in this class we'll be using Lisp, Prolog and Simula. learn them by next week."

[fringe sphinx]

yah, I think for me, year 1 was mostly pascal, year 2 had a c++/OO class and a functional programming (lisp) class.

Hmm, interesting, Umass has a three course intro sequence: https://www.cics.umass.edu/content/cics-introductory-course-revision, this makes a lot of sense to me too.

[sleek egret]

well, umass isn't exactly harvard.

[fringe sphinx]

Sure: https://csadvising.seas.harvard.edu/firstyear/#cs-courses-for-first-year-students

I guess that's a different strategy, CS50 -> lower level CS61 https://cs61.seas.harvard.edu/site/2022/CourseDescription/#gsc.tab=0

I think I prefer the intro -> OOP -> DSA route, as it gets you to some level of mastery before changing horses midstream, but I'm not a harvard educator 🙂

[sleek egret]

DSA should be long long before OOP

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I guess the real question is: do you try to achieve a level of mastery (intermediate?) in one language before branching off (either lower level or other languages)? Or, is it better to get a broad survey in so you have better perspective.

[sleek egret]

the latter

you can't be a true python master without understanding C

and you can't be a master of C without understanding assembly

and you can't master C++ without first dropping LSD

etc, etc

[fringe sphinx]

I thought that last one was lisp.

[sleek egret]

good point

[pastel thunder]

its start off from coding using animation. I think it is still good for beginer

[deep orchid]

Is ai going to replace us I feel like ai will replace software developers I am scared it can write a whole python code in few seconds and the code works I am scared it will replace us and scared that I picked the wrong major in CS its my first year in CS and I am very unsure

[true harness]

nah

[deep orchid]

What you mean by nah you mean it won't replace us or you mean I picked the wrong major and programing days are over

[smoky quest]

you will be fine, don't worry

I don't expect any jihad butlerian any time soon

[deep orchid]

You sure I mean like in 15 years it won't replace us people say in 10 years there won't be programmers because ai will take over

[balmy spade]

People say a lot of things.

[deep orchid]

They might be right

[pine sleet]

It won't replace your job it just might make you do your job differently

[smoky quest]

15 years ago, the first iphone was released.
A lot of things can happen in 15 years.

[deep orchid]

I mean now it writes a whole code that works in 10 years who know they might replace us

[pine sleet]

If it writes a whole code that "works" then it's probably very simple.

[deep orchid]

Like ai replacing us ?

[balmy spade]

Have you used it? Have you developed anything purely using AI?

[smoky quest]

If anything, that's even more reason to go into CS and into areas that will be less reachable by automation.
Just don't do a job that a machine can easily do

[deep orchid]

Look at this code it wrote

[smoky quest]

Sure. I am all for it. What's wrong with it?

[balmy spade]

Have you run this?

[deep orchid]

In C# a whole application that manages timers for different users

[pine sleet]

Yeah this is pretty basic compared to the stuff companies do

[deep orchid]

Nope but it made a snake game using python I ran that and it works so this must work

[smoky quest]

That's awesome! No more time wasted on boring timer management applications. You can now focus on more interesting things

[balmy spade]

Then you don't know it doesn't work. I'm not sure why this is impressive.

[deep orchid]

It's scary not impressive

[balmy spade]

It's neither. It's bad code that won't run without a programmer to fix it.

[deep orchid]

But it might also take over the interesting stuff

[pine sleet]

Why? let it automate the boring stuff nobody wants to do

[harsh river]

it can write a whole python code in few seconds
ah yes py print("hello world")

[deep orchid]

In the future it might fix its self

[harsh river]

just because it worked once doesn't mean it'll always work

[deep orchid]

True

[harsh river]

in the future ideally it should give the correct code without needed to "fix" itself

[balmy spade]

Live in fear then. Ping me when I can finally give my job to the AI. I eagerly look forward to the day I can focus on other things. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deep orchid]

So then programmers won't be needed

[balmy spade]

Eh, that's harsh. I shouldn't have logged in today. My patience for this is zero.

[deep orchid]

Like what exactly

[deep orchid]

Noooo

[pine sleet]

People have been saying "AI is going to take over our jobs" for quite literally decades now and every time they say "this time it's going to be different"

[harsh river]

years ago when computers came out, people had the same kind of thinking you do now, look at us now

[true harness]

eh. technology has definitely removed the need for many jobs

[balmy spade]

I've been listening to it since I started working. That was 30+ years ago.

[deep orchid]

You know what yeah true

[pine sleet]

It's not going to "take over" your job, it's simply going to make you do it slightly differently. Have it write boilerplate code for you! It already does that with stuff like Copilot. It can't solve problems that need human level thinking, innovation, and problem solving. AI simply does not have that. It can't think

[deep orchid]

You know what yeah so I picked the right major thanks

[harsh river]

think of it this way, if the major was useless or going to become useless due to "AI", then the major wouldn't be offered anymore

[open cradle]

It is all about layers. Python in the end is a layer around C that makes coders work easier. Same goes with C and Assembly. AI will bring us a new layer and programmers will continue existing

And there will be fields that would still require with C, Assembly or Python

So in the end these just bring us more flexibility to perform our job

[deep orchid]

Ok thanks 👍

[smoky quest]

if it's so easy to automate, it wasn't that interesting after all

[deep orchid]

I think ai will be a co pilot like a little dumb Co worker I mean he know how to code know the basics but dumb you know

[smoky quest]

it can learn a lot over the next 15 years too

[fringe sphinx]

I’m excited for more efficiency: imagine what we can build with better/smarter tools

[deep orchid]

But it won't replace us

[near ocean]

Possibly a filter to take care of this annoying topic from the internet for good!

[open cradle]

It is normal that people wonder about this stuff

[near ocean]

Its been discussed to death on the internet and in here, people arent interested in reading others' opinions

There should probably be a pin at this point

[open cradle]

If you are not interested in reading others' opinions, what do you expect to find in a discussion based channel?

[near ocean]

Other more interesting topics?

[open cradle]

New people enter this channel and they are not aware about what has been discussed

[near ocean]

It buries actually good content and discussion

[uncut nexus]

@fringe sphinx @open cradle @true harness i made a few changes, would love your thoughts

[open cradle]

Most of the topics will always be cyclic (will AI affect my job? Help with my CV? How can I earn money while being underage?). This cannot be controlled in the end

[open cradle]

Sure! Give me a few minutes so that I can check

[near ocean]

The difference is that 2 of those topics will have the exact same answer while resume help is specific to the individual

[rustic thistle]

are certificates from edx or coursera ever worth purchasing? Couldn't I just state I took xyz courses in my resume / cv?

[open cradle]

That's also right. But in the end the person that is asking about the AI stuff will help specifically to that individual too, as it might be the first time they take that topic here in this channel

[open cradle]

I like that the dates are separated at right. I have it same in my CV and I think it helps recruiters to quickly know how much experience you accumulate.

[open cradle]

About the awards, I have no idea what it brings to your professional skills. Maybe an idea could be a short description or a few extra words (?) This would be highlt optional

I also saw that you edited the CS thing. Feel free to leave it as CS instead of Computer Science! As you prefer. It was my fault probably

[fringe sphinx]

I find the single column one more readable. Content looks good (but I didn’t closely read): layout- shrink the padding between project name and bullet.

[open cradle]

And finally, the way projects are structured will give you problems in the future. As you can see, the right side will typically has more lines as you need to enumerate technologies. The more projects with different technologies you have, the more inconsistencies or blank spaces you will have on the left side. I guess it is fine for now, these are just small notes

[uncut nexus]

ok noted, thanks again

one last thing, where to check the resume for ats ?

[open cradle]

One of the only tools I remember is Workday. This is a service that other companies hire to provide a recruiting based infrastructure. When applying for any company that uses, you can choose the option to fill out the form by uploading a CV. One of the companies that were using it is Nvidia

So what you can do, is going to NVIDIA portal and applying to a random job (without pressing the "send" button). You will see if the fields are correctly assigned after uploading the CV

Maybe you can directly do it without trying to apply to a company. I have no idea

[uncut nexus]

@open cradle here is what i think i'll be using in the end

[smoky quest]

If the experience is internship, you should state as such

[smoky quest]

also you may want to expand on some claim to fame / cool parts in your projects/experience.
Otherwise, it's no different than any other full stack engineer who did full stack things

[uncut nexus]

they are not internships

[uncut nexus]

hmm ,
add more stuff like used by 3M players
ok noted noted

[smoky quest]

then as a reviewer, the first thing coming through my mind would be: how come they cannot hold a job?

[fringe sphinx]

Just a minor consistency thing: on experience, you list the skills/tech first, on projects, last.

[uncut nexus]

its a freelancing gig, maybe i should add that somewhere

[smoky quest]

yep

[open cradle]

I like it!

[uncut nexus]

question
link to my website vs link to LinkedIn ?

also should i make the project titles links ?

[open cradle]

I see them differently. Linkedin could be interesting as a social platform. Some recruiters added me there. But I understand that a website is always cooler than a standard linkedin profile 🤔

In this case having both would not be so bad maybe. But I can see you have limited space there 🤔🤔🤔

[open cradle]

I guess links are always helpful to prove what you have done. I remember in your old CV you were using an icon to explicitly indicate where are the links. That's helpful

[uncut nexus]

Freelance Full Stack Engineer or Full Stack Engineer (Freelance)

[uncut nexus]

ohh yes.. ill merge both hehe

[open cradle]

Soery but I am not the correct person when it comes to correct english hahahaha

[smoky quest]

latter

[heavy tiger]

Hi guys sorry if this is the wrong place for this but i was going to start a foundation year in computer science at uni (since i had no experience in this field before so i had to) and they have offered me to jump straight into the course, is there any tips on what i should study and focus on before my year starts and what i should focus on in uni?

[uncut nexus]

What's the syllabus at uni 🤔

[fringe sphinx]

What country?

Many US CS programs start with an intro to programming, then a DSA class, along with Calc 1 and 2.. some schools use Java as their intro language, and others (increasingly) use Python.

[heavy tiger]

Im attending a UK uni

[sweet gorge]

Where can one find remote programming jobs without any college education?

[balmy spade]

The same places you find jobs with a college education. Job boards, hiring sites, company Now Hiring pages, and such.

[sweet gorge]

I meant specific sites, Indeed did not have much

[pine sleet]

LinkedIn

[fringe sphinx]

You should be able to find their curriculum plan, and then pull up a recent syllabus for the freshman classes to get a sense of what your first year looks like. If you don’t mind sharing, which uni?

[true harness]

you should ask the "they" in your message

[summer roost]

there aren't different sets of jobs for those with college education and those without. Those without degrees are competing for the same software development jobs as people with degrees.

[small iris]

Hello I am new to this server . I came here to ask for suggestion regarding my career. So i started learning python 1.5 months ago and i have learned all the basics of python inclueding loops,if statements and all and i have also completed learning tkinter. I built my own calculator idepentently and many other programs. Do you guys think that will i be able to do free lancing with this limited information?

[vapid jay]

Hi there, look at some open freelancing projects and try to do the work. If you can then YES, you are able to do freelancing.

What do you guys think of remote work?

[small iris]

I think its Great cuaz the world is shifting online so we should along with the world and besides this it is much easier

[vapid jay]

i agree

i might go into remote work for a few years, but i can imagine that it gets boring after some time

[noble tusk]

is FAANG still a thing?

[vapid jay]

hmm.. yesn't

well.. it probably is, but you need to keep in mind that the average software developer at FAANG does only work a few years there

while you will be able to have a good income you will also have a lot of pressure

but why not. It won't hurt your resume 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

What does this question mean? FAANG is just a list of companies.

[small iris]

my father lives in frankfurt germany and he is a electrical engineer. he used to work 12 hr a day but was paid less. then he got a job offer from another company for online work and they paid him twice as much as he was paid before.Now he has got time to come back to home country and he has also started investing in crypto SO YAH you wont get bored

[noble tusk]

not companies,corporations

[fringe sphinx]

A corporation is a company.

[small iris]

Should i learn web scraping?

[fossil patrol]

you can get
100 Days of Code: The Complete Python Pro Bootcamp for 2023 when its offer. I got it for 14$ and you can learn from web scarping to game dev, basic level but for me i think is a good start, and then you see what you like to do

[small iris]

Thanks

[fossil patrol]

I think its ok too do a little from all because you can spend a lot of time doing just one thing and after you find that you dont like that thing at all

[vapid jay]

Frankfurt? Cool, thats like 4 hours away from me 🙂
I understand. My point was that being isolated might get boring^^

[small iris]

ah right

[fossil patrol]

2 hours from me :))

[small iris]

dem

[fossil patrol]

Living in Heilbronn, just moved some months ago in Germany for a new start

[vapid jay]

sounds good

many people from germany here 👀

Can we agree that software developer jobs in Germany are poorly paid?

[near ocean]

It depends? How poor is poorly paid

[fossil patrol]

i dont know yet i am coming from a poor country to learn code and get a job in germany

i finished law university in my country but i get low paid jobs and started from 0 here, i work in a factory here now

[small iris]

ikr

[vapid jay]

average salary is like 60k a year in germany while the average salary in usa is almost twice as much

[true harness]

comparing just salary across countries isn't fruitful

[vapid jay]

well, that makes me wanna work in a remote job for usa companies

why would i work for little money while other people with just a few years of experience are getting 100k+

[true harness]

doesn't mean you'll make as much. why would they pay you substantially more than your competition where you live?

[vapid jay]

why would a company pay way less to a guy from germany comparing to a guy from USA?

[true harness]

because like you said, the average pay is way less

[vapid jay]

for companies in germany, yes

[weary crag]

You have to consider living costs when it comes to pay

[vapid jay]

thats true, but the living cost in usa isn't twice as high as in germany

[weary crag]

Yea that’s true as well

[true harness]

so if an american company could pay less, why wouldn't they?

[vapid jay]

i think the reason for the different salaries is that there are more tech companies in usa that are more dependent from developers as most companies in germany

[cinder fossil]

really depends on the person tbh. I worked remotely for 3 months and realised it was going to be significantly harder to get any form of meaningful career progression (compared to the alternative) - in early life, hybrid is the best for it imo

[vapid jay]

can they? will there be people from germany applying for a english speaking remote job where they get paid the same as in germany?

[vapid jay]

oh yeah, career progression is an important point, thanks for pointing that out

[true harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯. if they wanted to attract people, the pay just needs to be a little better, not double. and of course there are other ways to make people want to work for you

[vapid jay]

its not a common thing that people from germany to work remote for usa companies so i really don't think the companies will be like: oh yeah this dude that applied is from germany, so i will tell him that he can work but only for a smaller salary. That would be a risk of not filling the position

[cinder fossil]

remote work is definitely great if
A) you're already well into a career
B) you have family or good reasons to stay at home

but last year, as a 20-year-old, it was kinda hard for me. especially since it's really hard to socialise. ofc its a culture thing, but at my new place lunchtime with coworkers is really darn fun and since I'm hybrid, I can still stay home if I need/want to. super flexible stuff. remote is great, just fully remote that sucks for me

[fossil patrol]

i have a question for you guys, i dont know how experience works in the work field, if i done a course in 3-4 months and then i started making personal projects and some projects for some clients(free to learn more) for 6 months for exemple. In CV i put 0 experience because i was not hired or can i put 6 months of experience?

[cinder fossil]

experience is a funny one. yeah, you can put six months as long as you're clear that it was freelancing

just a start and end date for when you were doing that kind of work. I have a bunch of experience overlap on my CV since I do a fair bit of part time work for various clients, even if unpaid

[fossil patrol]

but if someone do a very complex game for exemple involving one year of work, so no freelancing, its no experience?

personal project

[true harness]

experience for CVs and resumes means paid experience

[vapid jay]

Got it. I currently work hybrid but i feel like the companie i work for does not really like when you do too much homeoffice

[vapid jay]

no i don't think so. But you can definitely mention your project in your CV

working experience is only when you are hired or self employeed

[cinder fossil]

usually yeh but its kinda situational. I do professional systems administration for a university club (we have HPC clusters that we work with for research) and stuff like that I'd still classify as experience despite being unpaid, since it's pretty much exactly the same work I do at my paid job - the only difference being the ££

projects should go in their own section though

[true harness]

i wouldn't call it experience. volunteer experience, probably

[fossil patrol]

if you worked part time a year at a company, you can put 1 year experience or half of the time

i am having a job, and i think its easier for me to get a part time job as a dev at a company from my country

because they pay less in Romania and they dont need such a lot of experience

[cinder fossil]

imo:
Company Name - Job Title [optional Part Time/Volunteer] (Start Date - End Date)
or something of that sort

as long as its relevant experience to what you're applying to

[fossil patrol]

ok thank you all

[sleek egret]

I gotta echo what @smoky quest said about those experience itesms. you need to make clear they were not normal full time jobs else you will not get callbacks because of their very short duration

[sleek egret]

it doesn't work like that. there's no job application with a field to fill in a number for "years of experience"

prospective employers will simply look at the various jobs you've held in the past

[open cradle]

You can always go to Switzerland. People there will understand german and overall average salary is higher than USA

[vapid jay]

thats true! Might be a bit difficult to get a job in Switzerland but i will give it a try 🙂

[open cradle]

Many of my colleagues come from Germany. They seem to be quite happy since they moved. And being from the EU has some advantages

[delicate bane]

hybrid +1

[hearty island]

i hate working remotely at my internship personally

[true harness]

I love remote days

[hearty island]

but if i didn't work remotely, zero way i could work on my capm prep as much as i have been

[lusty pulsar]

Question for more experienced colleagues... how common is the "monitoring" of developers' work/laptops in companies? I mean things like MDM and such. I'm asking because, as most people agree and as I've heard from more experienced colleagues, it's impossible to program for 8 hours straight. Now, supposedly there's this monitoring thing, actually for the sake of pushing for some certification and such. But still, I don't feel comfortable knowing that someone can see at any moment whether I'm reading the news, typing code, and so on.
Otherwise, I try my best, and they have recognized that (I received a raise even during the probation period), and the contract extension is likely. I'm not someone who slacks off, but somehow, knowing that every one of my "clicks" is being monitored doesn't feel normal to me.
Or am I mistaken, and is this normally the case?

[near ocean]

Personally not going back to hybrid unless its a significant pay bump

[echo thistle]

american company is gonna pay u the german equivalent

only way theyll pay u the american salary is if u live in america

which is what a lot of people from southeast asian countries do. theyll live in in a bad area, pay the cheapest rent possible, and send money abroad

[vapid jay]

really? sad to hear that

[echo thistle]

what's sad about it?

[vapid jay]

Bruh I am paid 12k yearly in Italy...
The mexico of Europe...

💀

Trying to get out from this shithole
But unfortunately people that are close to the job area have the priority, so you won't be got seriously even if you try

[near ocean]

60k a year is great and way more than other countries pay in the same region even, why the complaining?

[vapid jay]

Anyhow currently I am working as an "apprentice" (to be able to get a legal job, since illegality strives here), tryed with other companies, and I end up getting the same purposa. So what can you suggest to get out of here? Stating working for x company, but I'd like to go outsea?

[vapid jay]

a ex trainee at the company i work is from italy

he went alone to germany to work there

[vapid jay]

How? I mean did he already had a contract, or got there as a tourist of the kind, untill he found something?

i talked with him about that, but i don't remember : (

he is not a developer tho

[fossil patrol]

i done this too, i am from Romania

i searched a factory job near Heilbronn, searched for a rent

i had some money saved (5k euro), and now i have 5-6 months here and learning coding and german to get a job here

[open cradle]

It is made for two reasons:

• Companies save money. Main reason always
• So that they do not have a big impact in the economy of the country. Imagine that in a country with the lower salaries (5€ month) a new big corporation appears, offering 100€ month to a big sector of the population. It will automatically make the prices increase, therefore only those working for that big corporation would be able to live in the country (pay for food, flats... etc). This working remote thing can make a huge negative impact as well

[open cradle]

Take advantage of EU. It is relatively easy going to another country

[vapid jay]

Eh Yes but not getting a job
I mean if you're like from berlin, and the job is in berlin, you have the priority vs someone who's like from milan

[open cradle]

Jobs with a high amount of offers. Programming is one of them

[vapid jay]

what country are you applying to?

[vapid jay]

Uk, Scotland, Germany, france, us

[open cradle]

Is this your CV? Is the least professional introduction I have ever seen lol

[vapid jay]

consider writing your resume in the language of the country you are applying for

[open cradle]

Try with Ticino too

[vapid jay]

Part of it, then there are persona project, portfolio, and work experience

[true harness]

it looks very unprofessional. random things not capitalized, plus the introduction is too casual

[cinder fossil]

way too many semicolons!

[open cradle]

There are even typos in the main sections

[vapid jay]

Do you have some examples of better stuff? So I can take as an example

[vapid jay]

oh yes..

[cinder fossil]

Obviously it can be a bit of a pain but I'd highly recommend making multiple versions of your CV depending on the specific roles you're applying for, it isn't really clear from this one what job you're going for

[vapid jay]

typo = instant delete of the application

[open cradle]

Since you are english and italian speaker, I would suggest trying with: ireland, uk, thr netherlands, and Ticino. This last one can serve you as a door to enter Switzerland, since they speak Italian there

[vapid jay]

Outside the gb32, what other typos are there?

[open cradle]

Futher skillsets

[vapid jay]

yeh

[true harness]

"Webdevolopement"

[vapid jay]

"eccetera"

[open cradle]

The thing is that your CV:

• Has many format inconsistencies
• Typos
• Wirtting very very unprofessional (informal words like whatever, contracted forms...)
• You focus on way too many things (CAD, photoshop, web development, fpga...). It is impossible to be good at all these things in my opinion

Try to improve all these aspects. If a person wants to bring somebody from a different country, the CV is the main presentation of you. It has to be perfect

[true harness]

what kind of role are you actually trying to get?

[fossil patrol]

and delete the "legal" thing

[vapid jay]

i suggest to only write things in your CV that apply to the specific job you are applying to (if the company does not work with cad, then don't write about it)

[fossil patrol]

when i see this i think you want to switch from drug dealing to web development

[vapid jay]

When I did that, I was trying yo get something legal, after years in black (unregulated job, without a counteract strives in Italy)
And I was successful, although the pay/contract is better than average, it still is meh

Although thanks for the notes

yes, but every job has different tasks

webdevelopment != embedded systems

[vapid jay]

Hey there
I am a tunisian who's now about to go through his second year of his pre engineering course in university
for those who are familiar with the Tunisian/french educational system, in order for you to become an engineer you have to go through 2 years of prépa (preparatory classes for engineering) and then you take a national exam and the rank you get will get you to one of the engineering colleges.
The thing is, I wanna work in IT, mostly in cyber security or maybe in software engineering and to do that the easy way might be to finish the national exam and to go to the ENSI (national school of computer science) where you can get a software engineering diploma, or to the SUP'COM (National school of communication) which is more specialized in télécommunications and I can get a diploma in cyber security by getting there.
and there is the hard way which is the École Polytechnique de Tunisie, an engineering school which trains its students to be polyvalent, it gives you courses in math, physics, economy, computer science etc. it's more selective and getting there would truly make it easier to get a better intern and a better overall network, I can share the study plan if anyone is interested but I was wondering if it's really worth it or not?

[true harness]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[uncut nexus]

@open cradle found a good parser, it also tells why and how it is done + open source
https://www.open-resume.com/resume-parser

[queen thunder]

Thx

[smoky quest]

what is worth it or not?

[vapid jay]

should I take a regular computer science degree or an everything degree?

[open cradle]

Oh so nice. I was editing my CV now. I will take a look at it. Thanks!

[smoky quest]

what's an everything degree?

[vapid jay]

a degree you get from the École Polytechnique, it is a degree in maths, physics, economy, computer science etc

[smoky quest]

You mean the polyvalent path?
In general, the more abstract, the higher the careers.
I would suggest to look at the path of alumnis from these school to get a sense of where they lead

[open cradle]

"Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (see the browser console for more information)."

🤔🤔🤔🤔

[uncut nexus]

[vapid jay]

well, I've heard that companies especially in CS would hire a someone who's more specialized in that area they're looking to recruit from.
so wouldn't that make it a better option to take a course in, say, front end dev rather than a physics maths and economy?

[smoky quest]

not really because that's the only thing they can do. They will be considered more like code monkey / pissing code.
Whereas someone with more abstract knowledge can handle more things and it will be easier to adapt.

Keep in mind that as soon as you go higher in the hierarchy above the people writing code, the job will be very different and thus more advantageous to people who have better abstract thinking skills

[sleek egret]

basic coding is a trade, like repairing engines

advanced math and other theoretical knowledge allow you to work in more advanced domains like finance, biotech, engineering, etc

being well rounded help you in do better in architectural/system design or managerial roles as you get older

[smoky quest]

@vapid jay fyi, I don't do DMs, and your questions will be better answered here 🙂

[vapid jay]

fair enough xD

[fringe sphinx]

I think it’s a balancing act. You want a broad foundation: but you also want useful skills. Sure, perhaps you can increase your hirability at the cost of your foundation, but I think finding the right balance is a very personal decision

[sleek egret]

to use an analogy with being a "programmer", it's as if everyone from ambulance techs and nurses to surgeons and cancer researchers were all called the same thing, "medics"

@fringe sphinx is correct. to elaborate, technical coding skills are more useful immediately, but more abstract foundational knowledge is more useful long term. generally speaking.

[vapid jay]

I mean, if I can get a good enough rank to actually go the polyvalent way, I would be learning other practical cs stuff, I am so into the field and would love to go as far as I can in it
so my question is, as a person who's also so into maths, can't I learn math the same way I would learn CS, by myself on my free time?

[fringe sphinx]

My course selection process was: I picked classes I knew the least about (and perhaps would never learn).

[sleek egret]

sure, that's possible. but very few people have the discipline to do it. we don't know you, you have to be honest with yourself.

[fringe sphinx]

Like( was I ever going to sit down and study stochastic calculus on my own?

[sleek egret]

and that said, learning it yourself won't mean anyone else will believe you when you say "I know tensor calc".

[sleek egret]

oh god, I hated stochastic calc. it hurt my brain.

[fringe sphinx]

This is also a slippery slope of ‘why even go to college’

[smoky quest]

In the french/tunisian school system, you don't have electives or ways to pick your classes like in the USA.
It's more like picking different paths, where all the classes are already selected

[fringe sphinx]

US system: you get more choices as you progress. Grad school was the best.

[smoky quest]

definitely!
However that also changes the way one look at it.
Regardless of which path @vapid jay chooses, they know will do well. But they will open or close different doors

[fringe sphinx]

I like to drop the phrase ‘mathematical maturity’ often because this is part of what we’re talking about: there’s a certain maturity of thinking that comes as a result of effort… not just ‘learning’. https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2019/04/15/precise-definitions-of-mathematical-maturity/

[sleek egret]

the more general the courses, the more doors open, but just a little. the more specialized, the fewer doors open, but they open wider

[vapid jay]

I am a person who has some very clear aspirations, I wish to do great in life and to be a great software engineer, I definitely do get how much math would make stuff easier in CS and I guess that's the goal I'll be setting and aiming to get to, hopefully lol

[sleek egret]

does that have to do with actual understanding vs rote mechanical operations?

I've seen many university students who can "do the math" when told what to do. but that's not really what we look for. we look for kids who can figure out what math to do (and then do it, of course)

[fringe sphinx]

Take a look at the article, they talk through the various dimensions of this…. Because sometimes it is understanding, but not knowing how to apply. I don’t know of a programming maturity model (haven’t looked) but it’d be akin to knowing binary search, but not seeing how to apply it to a particular problem

[sleek egret]

yeah, I guess a more detailed way of looking at what I described

[fringe sphinx]

I like the fifth dimension: disposition. If you have all the skills and intuition, but still find it unpleasant, you’re also not going to go far. I’ve seen many cs grads like this.

[sleek egret]

heh

[vapid jay]

What do you all think about engineering in applied mathematics?

[fringe sphinx]

What do you mean? ‘About engineering’?

[sleek egret]

one of the things I've had interns do which annoys me is that they'll come and say "I need to do X, Y and Z. how?" and, I'm thinking "that sounds right,... why don't you just do X, Y and Z then?"

I know they know how to code it, I've seen them do it before. I really don't grasp what the problem is.

[vapid jay]

is it a good field of study?

[fringe sphinx]

The only thing that really bugs me is when people can’t say; ‘I don’t understand’. I hate going through long explanations, and then finding out a few days later they’re still stuck and use ‘I didn’t understand’ as an excuse

[fringe sphinx]

Is applied math a good field?

[sleek egret]

oh yeah. that's the biggest problems interns and new grads have. they are afraid to admit they don't understand something.

[vapid jay]

yes

[sleek egret]

the modern world is built on math

everything from road building to farming, from drug research to space stations. it's all based on math.

marketing... math. sales... math. business accounting... math. health care policy... math.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, and especially in this ai/ml world: strong math skills seem increasingly important

[sleek egret]

even war boils down to math

well, it boils down to math if you want things to actually work. if you don't care about that, then I guess the math doesn't matter 🙂

[vapid jay]

how would y'all rate this curriculum?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AxyONRMYcZXKj-g-nb5sZXVKf6Kcf8pk/view?usp=sharing

[uncut nexus]

final review, added icons to indicate links

[open cradle]

It looks cool and clean! I like it

[uncut nexus]

i will probably add links to GH and LinkedIn

[fringe sphinx]

Looks great, it’d pass my screen.

[vapid jay]

i don't know if you should have dates for projects

but maybe thats just me

[fringe sphinx]

I could go either way on that, usually they don’t have dates but doesn’t hurt and shows they’re recent.

[true harness]

the "Technologies" section is a little weird. "AWS", "Azure" are huge, imo you should be more specific with what you've used. same with "CI/CD"

[uncut nexus]

i agree but i did it because that is what they ask in JD

a lot of JD say "proficient in AWS"

so just in case there is keyword filtering, i dont wanna get rekt

[true harness]

yeah but you can just do AWS "the thing", like "AWS lightsail" or "AWS EC2"

[heady talon]

I was looking to get into app dev. How many programs should i make before I start looking for jobs?

[true harness]

there isn't a specific number

[uncut nexus]

also depends on the place you are looking for the job ( company, region, type )

[peak halo]

You're asking about portfolio projects? What credentials do you have otherwise?

[smoky quest]

also note that if you are in HS or college, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[plain stump]

yo im trying to be a machine learning dev how do i get started

[peak halo]

What stage of life are you and what credentials do you have?

And what country?

[plain stump]

im in hs from south africa i started learning python 2 weeks ago

[peak halo]

You should focus on doing well in school and taking the most advanced math courses that you can, and then apply to degree programs related to computer science and/or AI

[plain stump]

ok

[sharp ruin]

How can i know which path to take in programming

Help me i cant choose:(

[smoky quest]

you look around what is done with it, how it is used and what paths could lead to that.
You could also look around schools to see what degrees and paths they offer

[fringe sphinx]

If you’re at the beginning, the next few steps are all the same… become proficient with a single language, and start learning ‘a little about a lot’

[sharp ruin]

Ok thanks ill try

[tardy bronze]

where should I try and intern, early CS major trying to get ahead. Some people tell me that I need to wait until im a rising senior but I want to get ahead. Does anyone know of places that will allow an underclassmen to be an intern. I have plenty of marketable skills and I have already done some work for the web development team at my school. and also what are some things I can do to make myself more appealing for internships and masters programs.

[fringe sphinx]

No idea, but other people here have said you don’t really get your first or second pick, so you take whatever experience you can get.

[tardy bronze]

damn

[true harness]

most people aren't getting the luxury of picking between offers for internships, from what i've seen. i would definitely encourage applying for internships even as a freshman, though

[tardy bronze]

what about for the second part of the question, what can I do to make myself as appealling a candidate as possible?

[peak halo]

Why do they think you should wait? You should aim to get internships over as many summers as you can. And wherever you intern, they might offer to let you come back the next summer, but you're not required to go back if you apply for and get another internship offer from a more desirable company later

[true harness]

internships are looking for "potential". so that could be shown through projects that demonstrate interest, volunteer experience maybe, open source contributions, etc

[tardy bronze]

IDK, exactly why. I just keep hearing to get an internship the summer before senior year. but I would like to get one every summer if possible

[fringe sphinx]

One suggestion: search this channel for resume reviews… there’s a lot of good discussions in the history about what makes a good resumes/etc.

[true harness]

most companies do only offer internships to rising juniors and seniors, so it will definitely be more difficult, especially since you're competing with them. but it's not impossible

[tardy bronze]

I am working on several personal projects. this may seem like a stupid question but how do i get involved with open source projects

[tardy bronze]

noted

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, we only really hire rising seniors as interns, because it’s about our pipeline… but we’re also small

[true harness]

many bigger projects will have issues labelled "good-first-issue"

[peak halo]

An internship might turn into an offer of full time employment that starts after you graduate. And that's more likely for whichever internship is over your last summer (which is the summer before your senior year). But it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't seek to intern over prior summers.

[tardy bronze]

i think thats why people tell me just toi wait

[fringe sphinx]

Don’t wait intentionally. You might have to wait, but don’t not try

[tardy bronze]

labeled where? in this discord somewhere? or online?

[true harness]

on github

[peak halo]

I wonder if these people mean "you might be forced to 'wait' in that internship offers are unlikely for rising sophomores and rising juniors" or if they mean "you should not even apply until you're a rising junior." The latter seems like awful advice to me.

And the former isn't even advice. It's just a statement about what your chances might be.

[tardy bronze]

I agree. cast a wide net. now let me ask. what are the best things I can learn now to be marketable(I.E good packages, languages, etc.)?

[peak halo]

They're looking for (a) good grades and (b) a signal that you have skill or promising interest in their focus area. So there aren't language or packages that make you generally marketable for point (b), because that depends on what kind of developer you want to be, and what kind of internships you want to apply for.

[fringe sphinx]

People ask variations of this all the time. This seems somewhat unknowable. I really don't have an answer except: do lots of different things. It comes down to: is it better to know a lot about a little (specialize) ... or know a little about a lot (generalize). I'd argue for generalizing, unless you have a particular passion.

[tardy bronze]

I am hoping ot go into AI/ML. I am currently finishing a fundemental;s of python3 course and then I will start learning Tensorflow. I am also working through CS50s AI in Python course.

[tardy bronze]

interesting. like I said i definitely want to go into AI but I dont want to screw myself over because I went to specific and dont have a wide enough range of knowledge.

[peak halo]

If you're going to pick between pytorch and tensorflow, I would pick pytorch. But more importantly, you will not get an internship because you "know pytorch" or "know tensorflow". In that context, it's about understanding neural networks theoretically and in an implementation agnostic way.

[tardy bronze]

thats interesting, I am hoping to learn that from the CS50 course I am taking.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, also, if you're serious about AI/ML, I think that's really where grad school comes in.

[tardy bronze]

the goal is to do my masters in AI at Uni

[fringe sphinx]

That makes a lot of sense to me. I'd worry first about getting good at programming and having a really solid foundation. There's so much to learn about being a good software engineer.

But of course, find your own path... don't think there's any wrong answers if you're learning.

[tardy bronze]

yeah, its just pretty daunting and im trying to figure out what to focus on. how do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time... but where the heck do i start??

[fringe sphinx]

I hear ya. That's more or less why I'm saying: As long as you're learning, you're taking one bite at a time... it doesn't even matter what type of animal you end up eating 🙂

[tardy bronze]

valid

[ashen plume]

I'm in the same situation, anyone have an good place to start ML?

[tardy bronze]

read this convo. simple answer... idk

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, just to recap my opinion: get good at programming first. CS50p / DSA/ do some projects. When you think you're an intermediate programmer, then do some ML projects or program, piratical mentioned a CS50 for AI (I don't know it)

!resources has lots of stuff too

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[tardy bronze]

I personally am working through a Python textbook and then I plan to move to learning Tensorflow(maybe Pytorch). Working on data science projects in the mean time since ML projects are a bit too much for me ATM. @ashen plume

[celest kite]

And to think I'm just happy when my interns aren't just complete morons

[tardy bronze]

rough

[celest kite]

Actually this year has been waaaay better. We hired a new recruiter and she's a rock star

[ashen plume]

I have been working on kaggle projects, but online courses like CS50 seem too theoretical

[tardy bronze]

the lectures are very theoretical(which is important to understand) but they have very complex challenges that push me pretty hard. they are prettyu fun too @ashen plume

[fringe sphinx]

(thanks for pointing out the cs50 for ai... I'm looking at some of the material and really like it, might watch a few to see if it's worth recommending!)

[tardy bronze]

definitely very informative. some of the challenges have completely stumped me. that is why I have taken a break to finish refining my python skills to make sure im as prepared as possible for the challenges.

not finish, but refine my fundementals, the process is never finished lol

[unreal turtle]

anyone know what this for loop functionality does for _ in range(k):?

[pine sleet]

runs the body k times

[unreal turtle]

why do we put the underscore?

[smoky quest]

wrong channel too

[unreal turtle]

oh my bad, didnt even realize

[weary crag]

Really nice course it gives a great overview of all the different areas of ai imo. Though it really is an “introduction” and it only scratches the surface of the most topics that are introduced.

But the problems/projects are really fun and I think for people that are a bit stuck in terms of what they should learn next or what project they should work on it’s a great choice.

[pastel thunder]

Everytime, I used to forget that I shouldn't tell my expected salary, and used to say I have x, y offer and expecctation.
Today I remembered and as soon as I said I am willing to negotiate and asked for the range that they are offering for this role, HR immediately changed the subject. She started talking about how interview would be conducted on teams app, lmao.

[sleek egret]

try telling HR people, "I only speak with decision makers"

[hearty island]

6 more days till the biggest exam of my professional career so far guys

[pastel thunder]

she would spank she and call my gaurdians if I was in-person.

[sleek egret]

ooh, kinky

[hearty island]

💀

[pastel thunder]

spank as in bruise not as in horny

[hearty island]

ummmm let's change the topic lol

anyone have any further changes to this resume?

i'm not sure if recruiters know what "IVR" is. so maybe i should put telecommunications system?

it stands for integrated voice response

https://elevenrecruiting.com/create-an-effective-resume-xyz-resume-format/ i kinda like the x, y, z format here

[open cradle]

I am telecomm engineer and I never saw IVR acronym lol

[open cradle]

There are just a few things that are missing to me. Like, if I go to technical skills, I can imagine what's your profile. But only after reading all the experience, I realized that few things (Python, Power BI...) are not in technicall skills

So it gave me a wrong first impression about what technologies you work with

[hearty island]

gotcha. i'm shooting more for project management tho

[open cradle]

Good to know! Then I have no idea about it 😅

[hearty island]

haha, it's ok. i think it needs to be more explicit what exactly i'm applying for. and the project management server i'm part of doesn't help they say just use chat gpt 😦

and i don't like chat gpt for resumes at all

[pastel thunder]

I specify dean list/distinction around education. More chances of getting noticed as education is at the top of my resume.

[hearty island]

got it

i wish there were some good templates out there for project/product management

[pastel thunder]

try Jake's resume
its pretty good

[hearty island]

that's actually the format i have currently in the screenshot

[pastel thunder]

looks different, i thinks its not A4 thats why

[hearty island]

A4?

[pastel thunder]

yeah, see your page size

@hearty island

[hearty island]

yeah but that's in word right? i'm using laTEX

[pastel thunder]

you can try A4, with smaller bullet points, it made my resume look better.

[hearty island]

besides that, is there anything else i can change with the content of the bullet points?

i haven't even started to apply with this resume much considering i graduate may 2024. i was thinking of starting in august

[pastel thunder]

market is trash anyways.
i think just making bullets more smaller would invite lazy interviewer to read them.
Maybe use bold on some key terms

[hearty island]

got it. but overall, it's not bad right? like are there any screaming red flags here?

i'm posting it on a pm careers subreddit, let's see what i can get

[pastel thunder]

yeah, i dont see any other possible things that could be done.

[hearty island]

the subreddit i posted on said to have less %s and more "tangible metrics"

like time and money

[pastel thunder]

if you use % on unnecessary things, recruiter my doubt the percentages mentioned in other improtant areas. like saved time by 30% could be a bluff

[hearty island]

exactly. they could be like how'd you save the time?

"can you be more specific?"

[open cradle]

I think it is good!

[hearty island]

thanks! billybobby and many others helped

i have to improve my interview skills in the mean time too

[open cradle]

The only extra thing I have in my CV, for example, is the number of months/years that each job lasted. HR are so lazy. Since I do not expect them to count the number of months between January and September (for example, I put X months below the dates. This way in 2 seconds you can add up all the accumulated years of experience. This is just something I do, not saying it has to be in your CV too

[hearty island]

oh, ok. yeah that might be a good idea.

[soft sorrel]

I am bca Student i tried all language little basic And I have interest in python so can someone help me to where to go with python ML AI full stack., Data science

[sleek egret]

what do you mean by "where to go with"?

[soft sorrel]

Bro for career

[sleek egret]

those are the careers. well except for "AI full stack", that is meaningless. but there are careers in AI

[soft sorrel]

So Which is Best?

[sleek egret]

best how?

[soft sorrel]

Like high pay

[sleek egret]

that depends on you, not the specific field

[soft sorrel]

Yeah You are absolutely right

[fringe sphinx]

That's like asking what type of surgeon you should be, while still in high school. Who knows.

[soft sorrel]

Can you help me for a Good road map for AI

[fringe sphinx]

The first step to being a surgeon is still: build a strong foundation, go to a good pre-med program and learn the fundamentals, then decide on your specialty. Same with programming.

[sleek egret]

don't take this the wrong way, but you understand that ML, AI and DS are all very math intense domains, right? they generally require an undergrad university degree as a minimum and many entry level jobs are starting to require masters and PhD's

[soft sorrel]

Okayy Brother

[soft sorrel]

Okayy

[sleek egret]

just as an FYI, the work "okay" has only one y in it

[soft sorrel]

Sorry i didn't understand

[fringe sphinx]

Are you currently learning Python? Are you following a program/tutorial?

[soft sorrel]

I am learning python basic From code with Harry

[fringe sphinx]

Great, my advice is: don't worry about ML/AI yet. Just get really good at programming (and math, like ruff said). There's plenty to learn, and you need a strong foundation.

[soft sorrel]

Okayy Thank You 💙

[acoustic spindle]

hii

[hearty island]

ah yes another fucking scam

i thought this said "Chad Health" for a second

after reviewing your application, we'd like to extend you the job. actually never mind, reach out to x colleague for an interview. wtf... who falls for this shit?

[full sage]

desperate people

[hearty island]

i mean i'm desperate too... but i would not fall for this

they're impersonating someone too btw the person is legit on LinkedIn but it's defo not her email

[hearty island]

"Percentages are vague. They mean something to you, but without a reference, they’re useless to hiring managers. For example, “increased revenue by 50%” is true for increasing revenue from $100 to $150, but also increasing revenue from $1,000,000 to $1,500,000. Obviously one of those sounds way better, so use metrics that everyone can understand.

As that relates to your resume:

I don’t really know what “enhanced problem managers’ tracking and documentation by 30%” so explain it using something people can understand.

Also another example, “achieved a 20% reduction in project completion time” -> “shortened project lifespan by 2 weeks”

Again, percentages are fine here and there, but rephrase a few to give different metrics"

[undone lantern]

this is quote from that scam?

[hearty island]

no, this is a quote i got off the pm subreddit when i posted my resume

[undone lantern]

uh this channel is not ot 0

[hearty island]

?

i'm trying to fix my resume?

[undone lantern]

i thot this channel was ot0

[hearty island]

oh i thought you were talking about me lol

[iron atlas]

hi people im new here! 😄

[light radish]

Did I fuck up lol

I passed a final interview round and recruiter just called me to ask what I make. I only added 5K to what I make. Should I have said a higher number or not tell her at all?

[iron atlas]

are coding interviews intimidating??

[fringe sphinx]

There's no right answer. Sometimes a higher number might get you eliminated, but you've definitely capped whatever offer they make. Perhaps a lower number will increase your chance of getting the job though. Me personally, I'd prefer to not say at all.

Oh sorry, they asked what you currently make? That's actually fine then... that doesn't mean what you'll accept to move. I thought they asked what you're looking for.

[light radish]

Yeah they haven't given me their number yet. I think I shouldve told them what I make + $10k.

[deft herald]

I hate that question so much. I usually say "Well i make <x> base salary but for me to move would depend on the total compensation of the offer" or something

[smoky quest]

No point in lying.
You could however focus on what you want. Their offer should not be based on what you make today but on what you want in your next endeavor

[open cradle]

It depends which ones. Some companies would give you a task and a long time span to solve it (like 1 week). Some others would hire portals that give you 1h problems so that you code them. And then there is this last one but with the interviewer on a call. Those last ones are kinda annoying but I only did it once

About the money, I just say "the average". I am not a person that can ask for more money usually. I will have time to do that later

[hearty island]

goddamnit, the managers broke my dashboard by editing the microsoft form

and they're going to further change it. meaning more unecessary work on my end.

[echo thistle]

Say it doesn’t matter

Focus on what you want to make NOW in the present moment, your past pay is irrelevant

[gilded valley]

you should just refuse to a answer that question, and instead ask for what you want+some extra.

is +5k even worth the effort of starting a new job?

[light radish]

I have a colleague there and the min base they provide is going to be almost +20k of what I am making

[gilded valley]

there was no negotiating advantage from saying your own salary. if you're we entirely risk averse and just taking what they're offering, then that's fine, but it's no longer a question of negotiation.

if you want to maximise your salary, then you should have asked for more than that base

[vapid jay]

salut

[gilded valley]

but it it is the former, why would you add the 5k

[open cradle]

I think looking at others is not a good idea. Building experience and knowledge is, in my opinion, what will make you boost if you are patient

I never cared about how much money my friends or colleagues are making. Comparisons ended up with some people being jealous. I go to websites to check salaries, but not with close people

[gilded valley]

looking at others is the only way you can negotiate

you can't value yourself without a benchmark

you need to understand the market rate for the role in question

[open cradle]

Looking at portals like glassdoor and satistics from the companies is enough to me. In the end what others provide me is just a limited point of view that might be even not accurate with averages or trends

[subtle mason]

I usually add 10k ngl

Even if they can’t provide it right then, I get a written agreement to say they will provide it after x

[gilded valley]

A) benchmarking yourself to peers is perfectly sensible because you understand their skill level and mindset etc - you know whether you are on par with them, or whether you need to work harder or need to be more confident in interviews etc

B) I think you might have misread what the guy said. he didn't mention his friends salary, but the minimum base at the company in question

[gilded valley]

point is that you know more about your friends than just their salary which means you can learn more than just a number

I've definitely been well served by this kind of benchmarking

[open cradle]

A) About this, I understand your view. Although it would be tricky to me. As some people behave quite different in uni than in a job. But it can give you a different type of hints than if you just look at the market

B) You are right. I read it quick and since my english is also not my main language I understood something completely different. My bad!

[gilded valley]

I think it's probably a personal thing. you don't want to get stuck in a grass is greener mindset, or stuck in imposter syndrome/god complex place - if you're the kind of person liable to these traps, maybe avoid it

[open cradle]

I just think that people have to be careful about it. I have met such greedy people that are only focusing on making more money than you in an obsessed way. Whose happiness does not depend on whether they get what they need, but rather on getting more than you, even if it just a shitty salary. Of course this is a way more extreme case (and not so related to original topic). In my case, I think about getting more money than my current position, and that's all. Maybe that's why I do not like the idea of talking about salaries with others. By doing this, I got rid of many people like this and I live better. But I also understand that some other people prefer comparing

[pure berry]

I am considering doing a bachelor's in Computing and statistics instead of computer science with AI. My question is what fields of work could i go into with computing and statistics degree (this degree has modules of both. i am not doing two separate degrees)?

[echo thistle]

both fields. you're going to be guiding yourself towards AI / ML / Data Science by doing computing and statistics, moreso Data Science. it also depends on the EXACT classes you are taking.

[pure berry]

thank you

[gaunt oasis]

what is average salary in europe (python developer)

[echo thistle]

bro u can ask google this question

[obtuse furnace]

anyone know why im getting this

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel, ask in #python-discussion plz

[obtuse furnace]

ok sorry

[fringe sphinx]

And, perhaps Quant roles

[obtuse furnace]

I cant post pics in there tho

[fringe sphinx]

Then open a help thread, #❓｜how-to-get-help

[vapid jay]

can someone explain the diffrence between data scientist and data engineer??

[peak halo]

I can tell you what the general definitions are, but in the end, it's not guaranteed that any given company actually follows them.

A data scientist uses statistics and programming to extract insights from data, and a data engineer designs and implements pipelines for how data that's acquired by the company is stored and made available for downstream use cases.

[vapid jay]

so th data engineer gets the data while the data scientist uses it to make decisions?

[buoyant seal]

requoting Nth time some experienced person

hubt — 09/22/2022
i warn everyone that wants to be in AI/ML: you spend a huge amount of time on data validation, cleanup, and analysis. and generally a lot less time than you'd think on the actual AI/ML part. unless your company has very mature data management and data pipelines(very few companies do), expect to spend a lot more time on data engineering than AI/ML

So kind of yes, but at practice data scientist can be expected to be data engineers

[rough elm]

Hi guys have gotten a couple offers for a sr swe position and i ve never negotiated before. How should i go about this?

[wooden pawn]

uhh ive gotta ask

do computer engineers develop softwares and hardwares? or just hardwares?

its kinda vague when i googled it so just wanted to be 100% sure lol

thanks in advance

[summer roost]

mostly hardware, though they might do some small amounts of low level software.

[wooden pawn]

ohhh

[summer roost]

if you search this channel for "negotiate" or "leverage" you'll find some previous conversations on this topic

[wooden pawn]

what career should i pursue if i want to do both? or is it just not possible lol

[lunar stag]

vscode extension for you: Error Lens

[summer roost]

it's mostly different people working on the two things, honestly. Hardware people might write firmware/drivers, but they're very unlikely to write software applications. The skills required are different enough that people are unlikely to have both sets.

[wooden pawn]

oh wow alright

what should i do if im unsure about what i want to do?

im not gonna lie i feel like ive hit rock bottom

[summer roost]

asking about hardware vs software is sorta like asking about building race cars vs driving race cars, honestly. Some people might be able to do both, but a lot more people only ever do one or the other

[summer roost]

assuming you're young: go to university, guess which one of the two will interest you more, start taking classes towards a major that helps people land jobs in that field, switch majors if you discover you don't like it or like something else more

you've got two things that interest you. That's awesome. Pick the one that you think interests you more, and pick specializations within it that you find most interesting

[wooden pawn]

what if i want to do something computer related so i can do extracurricular activities relating to that to build a strong application for university

[smoky quest]

At your stage, it's about breadth vs depth. And breadth wins so you can explore and discover what's out there and see what you like and dislike
It will be less about the specific project and more about the fact that you did things

[summer roost]

right. Try a lot of different things. The more things you try, the better your chances at finding the one thing that you like more than everything else, which will give you a huge leg up in deciding what to do 40 hours a week for the next 40 or so years of your life

[wooden pawn]

thanks for the advice yall

i guess ill just have to try

[smoky quest]

don't try!
Build something you enjoy and have fun along the way!

[summer roost]

you'll never in your life have more time to just try all the things

[wooden pawn]

cant express how thankful i am for both yall advice

[rough elm]

So I ve looked back at conversations for both of the keys words and I couldnt rly find anything helpful. I started out my interview process fast and loose to just see what I could get but it turns out there is a lot of garbage out there so I put very strict rules in place to filter out the garbage. Some of these are they give me a range I am comfortable with for the sr swe role, something thats higher cap than what Im at now but also not a 50% range. They also have to be willing to come out and meet me as opposed to me just going to them. Another thing was that I specifically asked for retention numbers for juniors, if those were not available I would also mark them as unfit.

All the offers I have now are all upgrades in terms of pay and work interests (the benefits are all within lik 3%). So Im looking for a way to further filter all of these offers so I can get the highest value.

[summer roost]

That seems more like you're looking for help with offer evaluation than with negotiation - more figuring out which offer is best, rather than trying to figure out how to convince a company to make a better offer

[rough elm]

That seems more like you're looking for help with offer evaluation than with negotiation
I havent put in counter offers yet, I told every org that has put in an offer I want to see all the current processes through. I still have one of those outstanding which I meet with today.

I definitely don't mind help in either of those categories though.

[smoky quest]

fyi, most companies are now using market data to base their compensation.
So negotiation may not be as applicable as it used to be.

That said, the best way to up your arguments is to have competing offers

[rough elm]

Is that the only argument I have tho?

[smoky quest]

why would they pay you more than someone else doing the same job?

[rough elm]

I feel like shot myself in the foot a little bit by telling them my no bs strict search criteria

[rough elm]

Im sure they wouldnt but Im kinda looking for a way to ensure I can get as close to my own top as possible

[smoky quest]

they will want to hear more than just "I want more money please"

[smoky quest]

Sure. But my point is you need to come up with some demonstrated arguments about it

[summer roost]

Another thing was that I specifically asked for retention numbers for juniors, if those were not available I would also mark them as unfit.
This strikes me as odd. Both because that seems like a piece of data that a company might reasonably hold close to their chest (regardless of whether it's 20% attrition over 2 years or 80%), and because I don't knowing the retention numbers tells you all that much. If 80% of juniors leave after 2 years, so what? That might mean they hated it and were underpaid and overworked, or it might mean that they were trained so well that Google snapped them up or that they all went off and founded their own successful startups

[smoky quest]

Think about it from their side:

• They have bands for different levels
• They have a bunch of candidates in their pipeline
• The higher in the band, the closer you are supposed to be to leveling up
• The higher in the band, the less they can increase your compensation in the future

So what arguments would support you being higher in the band?
Aside from that, there are ways like more equity. But then again it comes down to showing you are worth the spend

[rough elm]

I don't want to work at a place that doesnt treat their juniors fairly

[summer roost]

right, that's totally reasonable, but my point is you can't figure out if a company treats their juniors fairly based on attrition.

[smoky quest]

yeah that too

[summer roost]

low attrition doesn't imply that juniors are fairly treated, high attrition doesn't imply that they're not.

[rough elm]

It can be used as an indicator though right?

[summer roost]

I don't think so - that's what I'm telling you

I think that filter tells you virtually nothing about how well the company treats juniors. I think it's telling you much more about how closely the company guards confidential information than anything else.

(which actually is sort of an interesting piece of data in and of itself - you can probably figure some interesting stuff out about the culture in a company based on whether they're willing to talk to a candidate about things like attrition rates - but the actual value they report is still less interesting than whether or not they're willing to talk about it at all, I'd think)

[rough elm]

How would you try and figure out that part then?

[smoky quest]

you ask about it
"how do you grow your junior engineers"
"how do you ensure a healthy mix of engineers in your team"

[summer roost]

whether they treat juniors fairly? glassdoor, blind, conversations with current employees, conversations with past employees if you can find any...

[rough elm]

I mean I do ofcourse and I also talk to juniors there. Finding ex employees I have found difficult though without asking the org itself and I don't want their bias to play a possible role in that

[summer roost]

imagine there's a company where 75% of juniors quit within 2 years, but the remaining 25% make on average 2x their starting pay after 2 years. What does that tell you about how the company treats its juniors?

without asking the org itself
Again, I expect this is doing nothing but filtering based on how closely the company guards confidential information.

[rough elm]

I would definitely ask where tha t75% is going

[summer roost]

why? But, for the sake of argument, let's just assume the company doesn't know. People quit, said they were joining another company, didn't say what company.

[rough elm]

why?
Imo they should put effort in trying to find potential issues before its too late

[summer roost]

sure, but even assuming they do, it's incredibly presumptuous to think they'd talk to someone who doesn't even work for them about those issues

[rough elm]

I mean if all goes well I would also be trying to help with those right?

[summer roost]

not necessarily?

I mean, if what they've determined is "our competitors have more cash on hand than us and are able to poach our best people with big signing bonuses", why would they tell you that? And what could you do to help with that?

[smoky quest]

why not asking the company directly? Especially your future manager?

[rough elm]

Okay sorry I am asking them directly as well but Im also looking for contacts without going through them

[smoky quest]

why?
Were they managed by that manager? How do you know their opinion is unbiased?

[summer roost]

how do you grow your junior engineers
how do you ensure a healthy mix of engineers in your team
I think those questions that recursive suggested are likely to tell you much more about the company than asking them about attrition. Those questions really help to get to the meat of the matter: do they value mentorship and training, or are they just looking for code monkeys?

[rough elm]

Ye thats something I couldnt help with directly but thats not something I would take off points for so to speak. If they aren't willing to share that Im not sure if I would consider even working for them though.

[rough elm]

Ye I wrote these down already

[rough elm]

Im not looking for unbias but no added bias from the org in question

[summer roost]

I think you're living in a fantasy land if you think the company will tell someone they're trying to hire "people keep quitting because our competitors can pay better"

[smoky quest]

you can already get most of the value by asking the manager about it

[rough elm]

Ive had that told to me multiple times already

[smoky quest]

you could drill down to concrete example

[summer roost]

I'm... genuinely shocked to hear that. But ok, then. I guess you can choose to work for companies that'd tell you that. 🤷‍♂️

[rough elm]

This breakdown of my reasoning is rly helpful btw, thanks for that

[rough elm]

I think this is very much a culture thing, the people here are very direct.

[smoky quest]

I would take it like the same way you interview someone to join your team: 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏
They should be able to demonstrate how they grow their engineers and manage them

[celest kite]

Netherlands?

[rough elm]

Ye

[celest kite]

Haha easy to guess.

[rough elm]

Could have been germany too

[celest kite]

I had a dutch manager once

[pastel thunder]

i have major in mechanical and minor in robotics and AI
when filling job forms, should i meniton "other" in specialisation or should i mention "mechanical engineering"??

[hearty island]

dumb question, but will it look awkward that i interned at the same place twice? bc after i return from my summer company i will be back interning as a project manager at my old place

[celest kite]

Nope! That's fine

[hearty island]

thank you!

[celest kite]

Though, what kinda software house still has a project manager?

[hearty island]

it's a healthcare company - third party administrator

[pastel thunder]

instead of a-b and c-d write a-d, fraud++, just kidding, dont do that

[hearty island]

healthcare in the US is fucked and tpas help people save money on healthcare

[hearty island]

i don't get it

[fringe sphinx]

No, not awkward in the least. Possibly a positive (shows they liked you).

[hearty island]

awesome 🙂 the CEO of the company actually texted me yesterday saying he was happy that i'm returning

[pastel thunder]

ppo it is!!

[hearty island]

they did let go of two people recently (according to the website)

[vapid jay]

how many employees?

[hearty island]

15-20 in the home office. 50 across the US.

[vapid jay]

I going to college this year . I want to do part time job which is best . Thay I can do along with my college. .

[amber crane]

Reading my email:
"Your new opportunity at COMPANY!"
O wow! Am I finally getting AT LEAST an interview... I'll read further
"Your new opportunity to pay us money for a bootcamp!"

They really got me... that kind of advertising is cheating

[limber blaze]

I WANT TO BE A PILAAAAAT

🖕

[peak halo]

Sorry?

[hearty island]

sad to hear

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, all of you are welcome to come work for me, as long as you pay me... hah, what a scam.

At least it wasn't a pyramid. "You can come work for me, as long as you bring 5 buddies who will pay me"

[limber blaze]

guys please help im trying to speedrun getting banned on this server everyone report me

[undone lantern]

[celest kite]

Did you superstarify yourself?

[hearty island]

um what is happening to glassdoor

it looks awful

god help me if linkedin merges with glassdoor

[devout cliff]

Guys. what path can I choose to grow in programming as someone who studied physics and as someone who only knows the basics of c++? And if I be completely honest with you, there is only one goal - to make money

[fringe sphinx]

What is your education level?

[devout cliff]

Bachelor degree, finished first year couple of days before, the university is prestigious, in case you count it as an education level

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, so you’re entering your second year. Physics major?

[devout cliff]

Yeah

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, then yah, there’s plenty of time and opportunity and resources to grow as a programmer. Python is a good choice, have you tried? There’s a few good resources and tutorials to get your started

[fringe sphinx]

!resources has a few links. #python-discussion is a great community if you need pointers or recommendations

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[hearty island]

how?

[devout cliff]

I have found there a site named codeacademy. What do you think of it?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not familiar with it, and I'm not really the target audience for that stuff. I'd suggest asking on python-general, there's a lot more people here that might have experience with it.

[hearty island]

"FP Alpha is the first, AI-driven, comprehensive Financial Planning solution that enables Financial Advisors to provide actionable and personalized recommendations to clients in a scalable, intelligent, and cost-efficient manner across 17 disciplines, all while remaining complementary to current retirement planning software." 💀 how many buzzwords can you put in a couple sentences?

[fringe sphinx]

They didn't say it's a "paradigm shift"

[desert matrix]

bro how do u start a discord bot code nobody is helpiiing

[fringe sphinx]

This is career discussion. Did you mean #python-discussion ?

[desert matrix]

also how do i go from a js code to a py code, i changed the file name to bot.py

[hearty island]

hahahaha. do you think i should give it a shot and send my resume?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, why not? Fintech is a hot space.

[brazen lark]

Does anyone have experience in data consulting?

[sleek egret]

yes

[brazen lark]

Are you working for a company or doing freelance work?

[sleek egret]

my personal life is just that, personal

[brazen lark]

ok sorry

[sleek egret]

if you have questions, just ask. it's not nice to try to pre-flight strangers who are volunteering to help you

[brazen lark]

I want your advice. If you think it's offensive, then I can leave.

[sleek egret]

<sigh>

so ask

[brazen lark]

We have created a small consulting company, and we want to know how to find customers or attract them.

[sleek egret]

oh, that's easy. the vast majority of clients come from past relationships

people you've worked with or worked for. people you went to school with. and people that those people know.

[brazen lark]

humm

Already done that ..

but thanks for advice

[lapis wind]

well what expertise does your consulting company have?

[sleek egret]

I'm assuming here that by "consulting" you actually mean consulting. there are also body shops which just supply warm bodies on a contract basis. those tend to compete on price. there are also a few special areas such as gov contracting where multiple vendors may respond to RFQs

[brazen lark]

data analysis

dashboard building

[sleek egret]

this may sound overly cynical but the #1 skill a consulting firm needs is client relationship (from making sales pitches to getting them to pay their bills)

[fringe sphinx]

This is basically my business. And, it's 100% relationship driven.

[sleek egret]

technical skills can be hired

[brazen lark]

1. Build a relationship

[fringe sphinx]

Much of it is being a good listener.

[sleek egret]

yeah, clients will often tell you they want X, when they really want Y but, for various reasons, cannot directly tell you they want Y.

[fringe sphinx]

I really liked the book "zero to one" (despite peoples feelings about the author), in terms of building a new business... be it product or consulting.

[brazen lark]

scope of work ??

[sleek egret]

the one by Thiel?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah

[sleek egret]

sometimes. sometimes the Y is something completely unrelated.

[fringe sphinx]

Or, X is a deadend.

But, I entered consulting at a young age (after working for a big tech company) and landed a series of consulting gigs off my experience, which then led to a new business opportunity. So, it can be done: but, I had a pretty good network from the big company and an earlier startup.

[patent lotus]

Hi there I’m 14 and from the uk and I was wondering on what I should learn in python that will be useful for also doing GCSEs

[sleek egret]

what is GCSE?

[patent lotus]

Uk education system

[lapis wind]

it's the exams you do when you're 16

GCSEs - 16
A-Levels/College - 18
Uni - 18+

[fringe sphinx]

Python is in those exams?

[patent lotus]

Yeah

[sleek egret]

learn everything about python. study whatever you need to do well on the GCSE's

[lapis wind]

In comp sci there is, and realistically, you only need the very very very basics of python

[brazen lark]

thank you sir for your advise

[patent lotus]

What about for a level?

[lapis wind]

litterally the same

GCSEs only lightly poke at the idea that classes exist,
A-levels simply goes "Lol yeah they exist so err, here's an instance method" and that's about it

[patent lotus]

Oh

I can already code games in it do you think I’ll know enough on the python side of things

[lapis wind]

If you do something like https://realpython.com/learning-paths/python3-introduction/ it will cover pretty much everything and more

[patent lotus]

Tysm

[lapis wind]

This is the kind of question you get asked (Which I recommend looking at the revision papers / past papers)

[sleek egret]

that's an A-level question?

[lapis wind]

thats a GCSE question, but the A-level ones aren't any more complicated really, normally stuff is just wrapped in a class

[sleek egret]

heh

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, so a bit easier than a leetcode easy?

[lapis wind]

And now enjoy the fact that people fail it...

But thats not really that surprising ig, there is a huge difference between the people who want to be there and the people who dont.
In my school it was ,, although I think they changed it for future years.

[delicate bane]

hmm hmm people have talked about this one on many a podcast. ill add it to the list

[scarlet compass]

Hi I'm working on a support project but I'm not really a very good program, somewhat comfortable with python and Asure cloud can any one suggest me for which type of roles I can apply

[peak halo]

Are you in India? what experience and education do you have?

[scarlet compass]

Yes I've done my B-Tech in mechanical engineering, and currently working in TCS 1year experience

They are giving complete support work 😂

I want to shift my career towards technical related roles

It may take some time to learn new technologies but I will definitely learn them, all I need is some guidance.

[sleek egret]

the nice thing about software development is that you can work as a programmer while knowing very little. however, if you want advance your career and work on more meaningful things, you need to learn more math and theory. the next step after that is to learn about the domain you are working in (finance, biotech, marketing, steel, logistics, retail, whatever)

[cerulean imp]

I did the exam this year, excluding the difficulty fluke, it wasn't very hard. You can check the spec for specifics but the most complex thing will just be arrays

[heavy tiger]

I never took a level maths and have got onto a computer science degree course at uni, how hard is the math in the degree considering my understanding is gcse level right now?

[fringe sphinx]

What math class are you taking next semester?

(I only know US, but it's usually calculus first year)

Regardless, I'd suggest looking online for the syllabus for your first year classes to get a sense of what you should prepare for.

[heavy tiger]

okay thanks

[daring sphinx]

Interviewing for a senior backend engineer position soon, wish me luck.

[radiant moon]

good luck

[open cradle]

Good luck!

[daring sphinx]

Thanks folks.

[patent lotus]

Ok

[gloomy sundial]

I wanted to be taught, nobody else did
teacher played pokemon go with the kids when he couldn't be bothered

I got the 2nd highest grade in the school.... with a 4

[sleek egret]

is that good or bad?

[steady vine]

can somebody tell best course for machine learning

[formal jewel]

I have a question, How Google branch hire developer job? I live in Asia.

[vapid jay]

Is anyone in Devops?

[peak halo]

Try asking your actual question

[wraith burrow]

same I would want that too

[zealous yarrow]

Hi

Does anyone here knows python well ?

[summer roost]

tons of people do

[tulip marsh]

https://course.fast.ai/

[unreal turtle]

Should I follow the company I wanna work for on LinkedIn?

[smoky quest]

do you want to see updates on linkedin about the company you wanna work for

[unreal turtle]

Yes

[smoky quest]

then go for it

[pastel thunder]

is there always years of gap between when company offers esops and when they allow us to exercise it?

[smoky quest]

in general equity takes time to vest. It's a retention tool

[cosmic shard]

I recently started working on a company, they gave some training. Now when they give a task, I have a fear, and some unsettling thoughts that I can not describe .I dont know if I am overthinking about the task. Any advice for this junior developer.

[smoky quest]

why don't you try describing?
Because from reading your message, it sounds like you have some thoughts. But that doesn't say much

[cosmic shard]

it's like I wont do task correct way. I may mess up the system like thoughts

[smoky quest]

so you are afraid of messing up?

[cosmic shard]

yes

[smoky quest]

so make a list of what parts you are afraid of messing up and figure out what's real
And for the stuff that's real, make a plan

[cosmic shard]

thanks

[steady vine]

Thanks

[pastel thunder]

just ask questions, and tell your plan before implementing, they know you are junior dev.

[fringe sphinx]

Nobody expects a junior engineer to be perfect or ‘get it right’ the first time, the only expectation is that you’re always learning: I only get annoyed by low effort questions and lack of effort. My only hope is that you / juniors ask for help and feedback early; senior engineers will talk through a problem with peers to get ideas and feedback. Ask for help early and often… and take notes.

[little steeple]

hello, im new here

im looking for a group to join so i can learn more about python, i just finished python course but still aint enough to land an entry level job here in dubai, im sorry if im in the wrong channel, please redirect me.

i want to help even a little to some guys who are doing projects so i can learn more about python and django if possible

or please if someone can guide me, thanks in advance

[unreal turtle]

Updates about what though?

[raven kraken]

hey what are some good places to find remote job or internship as python developer I really good with web scrapping, and flask development and trying to find a job that will help me polish my skills better and earn something for myself

[true harness]

following the company just shows you posts from and about the company

[unreal turtle]

Ye I know

I guess it’s important to know when job postings come out as well

[near ocean]

Postings in the company you work for already? It'd be faster to check internal job boards anyway

[sleek egret]

there are like 20 companies in the entire world that need "web scraping"

[radiant moon]

I bet there are more; but I also bet I wouldn't want to work for most of them

[sleek egret]

you want to emphasize your ability to create software that is actually useful and to solve problems the company may have.

[vapid jay]

just make a project with your skills

jobs come after u r more than proficient, which a small minority are

[frozen bobcat]

yo bois i hate data processing so fucking much and i hate cs over anything, should i still do cs for the salary.

[gritty rivet]

No.

[fringe sphinx]

Don't the youth of today watch Office Space (Movie)? It's a true life lesson. Moral: Go get a job in construction and be happy.

[subtle mason]

youd be surprised, I work in eCommerce and data is everything

[oak pulsar]

I have been thinking about starting a platform which offer private coding tutoring sessions for kids in Norway. I have two decisions I need to make, and I’m not sure what the best option is. The first one is if I should have a monthly fee, where students can subscribe for each month for as long as they want to. The next options is to have different courses, like for example web development level 1, which includes 10 weeks with 1 hour each week with a one-time payment instead of a monthly fee. The next decision is to have a 1-1 or group sessions. I would like to hear what you think would be the the options. Thanks in advance!

[heavy tiger]

Hi guys i know this is a pain but can someone please look at northumbria university and there comp sci course and tell me what maths i should revise before starting the course? I can see the modules i just cannot see what modules require what math and im not familliar with the modules so i dont know what to expect. And if ur wondering why i dont just message them its because there not the best at communicating well.

[pastel thunder]

if someone was working as SDE3 in company X and does not know about certain tech stack, will he not get job in company Y as SDE3 with diff tech stack?

[nocturne coral]

Other than coding and writing code what are other stuff that programmers and software developer do in there job ????

[fringe sphinx]

Depends on applicants: I'll certainly prioritize people with experience in our stack over those without.

[pastel thunder]

so if someone uses outdated tech stack, he is little screwed?

but web dev has too many tools, how can someone remain relevant?

[fringe sphinx]

screwed might be overstating it... but I've seen plenty of senior candidates who worked too long in an old stack, and it hurt their chances to get the next job.

It's unfortunate: they did the "right thing" by their old company but hurt themselves in the process.

[pastel thunder]

i am scared because my role was DS, i wanted DS/ML job, they are training me for backend. and says DS department have no opening

[fringe sphinx]

It's also a matter of side projects and self-study. There's a big difference between someone who worked in an old stack AND didn't invest in learning new stuff, and someone who worked in an old stack and is continually learning.

[pastel thunder]

i am looking for more offers, but only getting same TC, want higher.
i think changing so soon will already hurt my profile.

[fringe sphinx]

If it's an option, consider the quality (learning opportunity, relevancy, technology) over or equal to TC.

[pastel thunder]

i am trying.

[fringe sphinx]

On DS in particular: I think developing some backend skills is important. I'm generally underwhelmed by DS roles and positions and the people who apply to them with little engineering skills: there's far more opportunity and stability in backend and DE than DS. DS is a "sexy" title right now, but in a lot of cases, they end up being data analyst roles. I also think the people who'll succeed in DS either are exceptional academics (phd / stats / theoretical conceptual) or those with very strong engineering backgrounds. I'm just thinking out loud here / curious what others think

[pastel thunder]

agree. ML is more like a passion for me. I know its less stable and i still wanna do it

[sleek egret]

titles and ranks are only meaningful within a single company

[pastel thunder]

[delicate bane]

if you ever want to get models into production, engineering skills are a must bc there will be little to no support in places without a strong data/AI culture

may or may not be speaking from experience

[sleek egret]

startups too, startups are always short handed and need everyone to pitch in

[delicate bane]

i think data roles will continue to evolve over time

[delicate bane]

thats true. i expect any DS in startups to be heavily involved in product/customer calls/etc.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I'm more a DE person, so I always feel like I'm doing more DS than the DS folks.

[sleek egret]

especially in very young/small startups. you should think of your job as "do whatever needs to be done"

[delicate bane]

on the bright side, ive figured out how to deploy models (as well as a vector db) in a serverless environment

[sleek egret]

"serverless" is just servers you have zero control over

[delicate bane]

sometimes its like that. joe reis expects DE skills to converge a bit with MLE skills in the future (i.e. creating feature stores, etc.)

[sleek egret]

IMO, of course 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that's more or less the way I view it... I think there's a small number of true "ds" roles, somewhat supervisory or CTOy in nature.

[lapis wind]

Midly off topic but yeah it's a bit tiring with the serverless hype that goes around a lot of the time.

[snow rivet]

hey i have just started learning python if i want to earn money from python what should i do rn? how much time it will take me to earn

[delicate bane]

yeah or even product-y

[fringe sphinx]

True yah, the real domain experts. I know one large institution where the chief data scientist is basically the person who truly understands the business (and is really good with SQL).

[sleek egret]

if you know no other programming languages, it'll take a few years before you are able to get and keep a job

some really sharp people can do it in less than a year

[sleek egret]

generally speaking though, the thing to be aware of is that almost no one hires python programmers. people hire programmers who happen to use python (among other languages)

[snow rivet]

ik C i learned it in my 1st yr in college now i'm in 2nd yr and i'm giving time to python everyday 2hr atleast

[sleek egret]

cool beans. then you should be able to get an internship. if it's a decent one, you'll learn a ton of practical stuff during your internship

[snow rivet]

what? they dont hire python programmers?

[sleek egret]

my point is that the language is sorta incidental

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it's like: I wouldn't hire an carpenter because they know how to saw and drill.

[sleek egret]

it's like asking "If I learn all about how to use a hammer, can I get a job in construction?"

[sleek egret]

it's like we are sharing the same brain... so weird

[fringe sphinx]

🙂

[snow rivet]

ok i get it now

should i focus on learning first or find interships

[sleek egret]

well, you're in university, so one assumes you spend most of your time learning already 🙂

[snow rivet]

and how to find interships

[sleek egret]

through your school

[snow rivet]

,yes now for the syllabus i have java basics,dsa basics,database management basics,computer networks

[snow rivet]

what do u mean?

so far i only got one intership opportunity it was for digital marketing SEO i refused coz it was to hectic for me due to college studies

i want to know how people get started with freelancing? how to get that first client and get going?

[sleek egret]

typically through recommendations from old co-workers and employers. through friends and others who have seen and respected your past work

[snow rivet]

then its so tough isn't it? coz what if you have no one to recommend you?

[sleek egret]

then why would anyone pay you a lot of money for your expertise and opinion?

[snow rivet]

but how will i build connections with people who will refer me for a paid work

[sleek egret]

by working

[snow rivet]

working for free at beggining you mean?

[sleek egret]

huh? thousands of companies hire entry level software developers

[snow rivet]

or just building random projects and sending it to people?

[snow rivet]

with no age criteria?

[sleek egret]

random people do not hire freelance software devs

[sleek egret]

you are used to schools. which have clear criteria for success, advancement, rewards, etc. the real world is different. everything is vague and fuzzy. nothing is clear, everything is negotiable.

that said, most "entry level" jobs are designed for fresh university grads

[fringe sphinx]

There's an old sales saying: "Never have lunch alone". The only way to network and meet people is to, surprisingly, make time to network and meet people.

[snow rivet]

yeah i was so convinced by watching those yt vid that i will earn in college and pay for myself supporting my family but things dont seem that straight the is not path for me

[fringe sphinx]

If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. You can certainly do it, but you have to not just want it... you have to work for it: be above average.

[sleek egret]

that is very important. I learned after about a decade of working to make friends with the sales and marketing folks at the companies I worked at. too many techies refuse to mix.

[fringe sphinx]

It's true in other fields. The lawyers who make big law partners are the ones who started networking (and maintaining their network) young.

[sleek egret]

yup. you don't make partner by being a great lawyer (or only that). you make partner by bringing in clients (i.e. money).

being a great lawyer just helps in bringing in clients. but skill at your job is a means, not an ends.

[native kettle]

Hey bro could anyone help me with learning processes
I'm an engineer who studies the course Artificial intelligence and machine learning but I'm not progressing I know python but never used modules like pandas, numpy, tensor, etc. I'm confused what I need to study next

[sleek egret]

do you have the basic maths? linear algebra, etc?

[native kettle]

I'm good at maths like trigonometry, differentiation and integration

[sleek egret]

then you'll have no trouble picking up linear algebra. it's essentially algebra with matrices

[native kettle]

I can play with matrix

[sleek egret]

you may want to also look into tensor calc

[fringe sphinx]

My low effort answer is start with watch 3b1b https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZHQObOWTQDNU6R1_67000Dx_ZCJB-3pi, and then https://cs50.harvard.edu/ai/2020/

[sleek egret]

of course, that's not what I mean. the key is to actually intuitively understand what's going on. you probably know people who can mechanically do calculus. but don't actually understand it, right?

[native kettle]

Give me some list i need to study this month or till next month I will give all my work on it

[sleek egret]

hmm... maybe the problem is that you're not actually doing.

[native kettle]

I didn't understand but I learnt new things like that what I do on paper is not as easy as doing the same things in programming

[sleek egret]

software development is a lot like learning how to play/write music for an instrument. it's a combination of theory and practice. and like music, to get good at programming, you need to practice (write and debug code). a lot. repeatedly.

[native kettle]

Bro really bro I'm doing I'm giving all my strength to studying now

[sleek egret]

there is no shortcut to that

ok... that doesn't change the facts on the ground though

[native kettle]

Thank you bro

Tell me which module I need to learn as ai developer

[sleek egret]

you can't study (by itself) your way to being a good programmer. you HAVE to do it. it's like thinking that by reading a ton of books on the theory of playing guitar, you can learn to play guitar.

[native kettle]

In my college nobody helps me so I joined discord so people could help

[sleek egret]

that's like asking what type of guitar to get to be a good guitar player

[fringe sphinx]

Watch that CS50 video, it'll give you some perspective

[sleek egret]

you have to DO IT. a lot. repeatedly.

[native kettle]

Okay bro

[sleek egret]

and study the theory

[native kettle]

CS50 videos and theories

[fringe sphinx]

We use lots of modules. Pandas, Sklearn, Tensorflow, Pytorch are the popular ones... but listen to ruff: just learning those modules without understanding the theory isn't enough.

[sleek egret]

many just blindly practice. that can get you pretty far. but if you combine that with theoretical understanding, you can go further, faster

[jade birch]

^^

[native kettle]

I need to understand and debug it again to solve errors

[snow rivet]

hey any recommendations from where to learn python rn i'm learning from codewithharry yt channel

[native kettle]

I learnt from bro code

[sleek egret]

bros code? 😋

[native kettle]

Bro I will send you my matrix code could you give me your Gmail

[sleek egret]

true code bros would be able to just hack me and figure it out!

[native kettle]

I learnt and did it without any reference

I will send you matrix.py file

[fringe sphinx]

Isn't this a silicon valley episode? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVoFzu-vH4o

[sleek egret]

lol

[sleek egret]

I like your vscode theme, bro

[native kettle]

I will send you this tell me how this is. I learnt and applied my knowledge and wrote this code

[true harness]

no wonder no one wants to help. you keep sending them screenshots!

[native kettle]

It's pycharm

[sleek egret]

ok, one observation. are you aware of the single responsibility principle?