career-advice

[sleek egret]

it's pointless to speculate about things you have no evidence about.

[smoky quest]

I would also caution about solely optimizing for $$$. It's important but that can lead to bad global optimizations

[true harness]

heh. greedy algorithm doesn't always produce an optimal solution

[sleek egret]

for money, I tried to make a decision of what I'd be happy with before an offer was made. and as long as that was met, I was ok with it.

IMO, it's bad to tie yourself up in knots about what you're "worth" or other such silliness. your compensation has nothing to do with it. it's just a supply/demand clearing intersection, after all.

[coral vine]

They want me to work asap lol I guess they have no software engineers

[crude moon]

If you are available and they are hiring, it makes sense that they would want you to start asap

[ivory sluice]

what do you mean by the company being "product based"?

physical goods?

did you not ask about this during the interview? like what the team is like, reporting structure, etc

[coral vine]

I guess they have a different way of interviewing because they are adding benefits after 3 months of work so maybe if I’m awful then I’m out before that period

[ivory sluice]

a 3 month probationary period is not uncommon, i think

[coral vine]

Oh I mean a lack of emphasis on the engineering end. So maybe they put their attention on the frontend product more

[crude moon]

3 months probation is common

[smoky quest]

are you outside of the USA? That's not normal

[coral vine]

I’m in California

[smoky quest]

That's not normal for a tech company. There is no probationary period, it's at-will

[tough charm]

mmk i just like stats so i was thinking about it but i dont know how much you actually use the kind of stats you learn in school on your job

[coral vine]

They only gave some benefits for now like 401, health dental, etc

They didn’t say anything about trials though. Just that more benefits will be added after 3 months

[true harness]

did you get that in a contract lol. or did they just say that would happen

[sleek egret]

what other kind of stats are there?

[ivory sluice]

having a probationary period doesn't mean it isn't at-will employment though. to my knowledge it's just a way for the company to not enroll in benefits or accrue PTO for the employee from day 1. that being said i think it's falling out of favor these days

[delicate bane]

what type of company is this? what industry

[coral vine]

I have to first forward my information to the hr secretary then they will give the actual offer letter

[smoky quest]

like what?

[ivory sluice]

ehhh offer letter sounds like it should come first?

[coral vine]

It’s for transportation/fuel retail. From the site it looks like doing software for gas station/freeway leds

[smoky quest]

Do you also get some equity?

[ivory sluice]

what information are you being asked to submit. anything beyond basic name and contact info?

[smoky quest]

In general, all the benefits would be expected to kick off when you sign and register

[coral vine]

Name, address, which bank, phone, email, and amt offered

[ivory sluice]

that's the info they're asking of you? wdym amt offered?

[coral vine]

This was the email I received after they said they would hire me. But I have to send hr secretary my info so they can give offer letter to sign later today. They say secretary must register me. Amount offered

[true harness]

aren't they offering?

[ivory sluice]

maybe i'm being overly cautious but uh maybe some extra due diligence on the legitimacy of this company

[smoky quest]

This is weird.
Typically they would just generate an offer based off your name and existing email address they already have. They don't need anything else

[near ocean]

Put yourself down for a nice bonus

[coral vine]

Oh woops I read it wrong. The secretary is going to send the offer letter later today

The basic info is just to be registered

[dreamy barn]

oh man

[dreamy shadow]

everyone here thinking you about to get scammed...

[true harness]

still seems slightly sus tbh. that should still be after you accept an offer

[coral vine]

I googled the company to make sure it wasn’t a scam xD

[ivory sluice]

but also do you have zero information on the company's engineering team? ^

there are very sophisticated job scams. a google search is the bare minimum

[smoky quest]

I always google about the companies, their funding, products, teams, etc.

[near ocean]

Time to dig into financial statements

[dreamy barn]

Search about the company on the LinkedIn too.

[ivory sluice]

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-01-12/job-scams-skyrocket-linkedin-indeed-pandemic

[coral vine]

They have 114 employees on linked in

5 software engineers

[ivory sluice]

and you said you had no video interview at all? what about phone?

[smoky quest]

that doesn't sound like a tech company

[coral vine]

Says appliances, electrical, electronics manufacturing on LinkedIn

[ivory sluice]

it could be a legitimate company, in which case you could call them independently to confirm the communication you've had with them is legit

[dreamy barn]

That's right.

[coral vine]

They said the video call is with HR once I complete documentation and I can ask questions about whatever

[delicate bane]

sounds like youll have your work cut out for you

transportation companies

[dreamy barn]

Is anyone one from India here?

[smoky quest]

@ivory sluice meant video interviews for the job

[ivory sluice]

and if that call is after you give them any of your bank information then it's a no-go

edited to clarify: it's almost most definitely a scam

have you had no phone call whatsoever?

do they have a physical address you can visit?

[coral vine]

It’s a company in Colorado. The LinkedIn looks very real when I check out the profiles. It goes into a lot of specific depth about what they are programming in the company

[delicate bane]

The company she had applied to work for was a legitimate architecture firm based in New York, and though the pay was lower than she would normally accept, it was a remote role and she was interested in working in architecture. Though she never spoke to anyone during the application process, she figured it was just how things worked in a pandemic-transformed world.

“That should have been a red flag from the beginning … if I hadn’t been busy with other things,” Pounder said.

She also double-checked that the person who initially reached out to set up an interview matched the name of the person on LinkedIn listed as the hiring manager. After receiving the offer letter addressed to the wrong person, however, she decided to call the architecture firm to confirm her position.

They told her their LinkedIn account had been hacked.
omg that last line 💀

[ivory sluice]

like i said, the good scams are very sophisticated. at the very least i would ask them to pay you by mailed check for now, not direct deposit

[ivory sluice]

there was a post on my LI feed of someone that got nearly scammed and i can't find it anymore but it was elaborate af

[coral vine]

So given the option of wired, direct, or check, I should choose check? O.o

[vapid jay]

hey guys, is responsive web design worth learning?

[delicate bane]

bro hacking company LI in order to scam job seekers is next level big brain

[ivory sluice]

yes paper check in the mail

[coral vine]

That sounds like the most insecure thing

[ivory sluice]

insecure for them maybe, not you

[vapid jay]

is responsive web design worth learning?

[ivory sluice]

unless the check gets lost in the mail. yeah i guess that's one insecurity. also another sign they're likely scamming

also most companies... i hope.. now have self-serve onboarding and payroll systems. for example i can manage my direct deposit bank accounts, what percentage goes to each account, my w-4 withholdings all on a portal without sending a thing to an HR employee

[coral vine]

They have a reputation on Facebook, google reviews and I checked google maps xD

[ivory sluice]

^

i'll leave it at that lol, since i'm not your close friend or mom. (but if i were i'd not leave it at that)

[ivory sluice]

the reason for suggesting paper check is because in order for them to send you a wire or direct deposit they need your bank account number. but having your bank account number means they can debit you as well (withdraw money)

[coral vine]

I’ll do check first then switch over to direct xD

Plus I’ll call the company and contact the employees to make sure it’s real

[ivory sluice]

responsive web design, is that the term for when pages realign according to the device and resolution you're using?

then i'd say yes, if you're doing any kind of web front end

[coral vine]

They asked if I have questions and I said I worry it could be a scam due to the remote nature xD but holy moly the tech that they’ll mail is crazy awesome

There is a time limit to accept! I have till the end of tomorrows business day.

[delicate bane]

A subsequent email from HR told her she would receive a long list of equipment at her home in Monta Vista, Colo. — including an Apple iMac Pro, external hard drive, file cabinets, HP LaserJet Printer — that she could purchase using a check that would be mailed to her.

In the span of 48 hours, she had submitted a resume, filled out a list of extensive interview questions, and received a job offer.

Pounder quickly discovered she was the target of a job scam, an elaborate ruse to trick desperate job-seekers into handing over their personal information, and in many cases, their money.

[spark cobalt]

Everything is responsive nowadays. If you're referring to the fCC course, I'd avoid that since that course uses outdated practices.

[true harness]

massive L

[vapid jay]

The point is I'm learning CSS AND html

[sleek egret]

we often buy equipment for staff. we never ask them to do it, we do it and send it to them (assuming they're remote).

[true harness]

just from a real company perspective, that sounds way easier

[sleek egret]

sending a check is a huge red flag

[hearty island]

my internship has me set up other people’s computers lmaooo im not even IT

[icy moat]

Who wanna help me do a python problem?

[peak halo]

a lot of people. see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[cyan valley]

At what point should I get into learning Django or anything other than Vanilla Python?

[smoky quest]

When you want to learn about roles that make use of django, such as backend roles

[cyan valley]

wait what

[smoky quest]

WHEN YOU WANT TO LEARN ABOUT ROLES THAT MAKE USE OF DJANGO, SUCH AS BACKEND ROLES

[delicate bane]

this made me die a bit

sorry

[cyan valley]

I mean, when is that? Like after I learn about dictionaries, lists....

[delicate bane]

roadmap.sh

check it out. good resource.

[smoky quest]

Do you want to be a backend engineer?

[cyan valley]

full stack

[smoky quest]

then yeah, see https://roadmap.sh/backend

[unborn bridge]

If you leave a company by quitting after a decade because of personal loss, health problems, stress, and an inability to adapt and learn, but later overcome those issues, then what should you say in an interview with another company if they ask you why you left the first one?

[true harness]

"i needed to take some time off due to a personal issue"

[coral vine]

Proof that recursive error is not a bot: random caps lock moment and said “shitload” once o.o

[smoky quest]

have you heard of microsoft tay?

[coral vine]

Okay so the proof of if I’m a true programmer or not is if I can figure out if the company is a scam or not. If I get scammed then it’s proof that I’m a fraud, a true imposter

[coral vine]

Now I have

[smoky quest]

There is nothing wrong with explaining your situation as such. Do you have specific concerns?

[unborn bridge]

Just concerned about being perceived as unstable or unreliable, or incapable of dealing with stress. Feels shameful.

[smoky quest]

I would put it on them for not giving you enough support to work through it

[pastel thunder]

I was asked do you have professional ML experience, when I had mentioned 13ish months of ML research experience.
Is it actually common for recruiters to think about it like this?
I thought they are pretty similar, should i now remove "research" from my resume.

[smoky quest]

Don't lie on your resume.
But can't say much without more details

[pastel thunder]

It wont be lying to write ML intern instead of ML research Intern.
what other detail do you need?

[coral vine]

I don’t think I’ll get scammed because I won’t do a single thing until every single one of my questions are answered.

But dang now remote jobs are super scammy too? It’s like buying a used laptop Dx

[smoky quest]

What was that project about?

[pastel thunder]

image/video processing, feature extraction, new architectures, basically almost everything ML has expect deploying

[smoky quest]

So it was a research project?

[pastel thunder]

i have done many projects, when novelty is there with surpass of SOTA research, only then is it published and called "research project", before that its just "project"

[smoky quest]

okay so none of them are professional experience. And that's okay.
No reason to lie about it

[pastel thunder]

and what would professional exp look like?

[smoky quest]

Something that was deployed to production with some users

[pastel thunder]

ok i wont remove research, that is painful to hear

[smoky quest]

nothing wrong with that. It's just a different type of experience.
When recruiters/interviewers are asking about, it's not necessarily to disqualify you. It's most often to understand you and your experience

If you were to try to pass your experience as something else, you would be caught and that put into question everything else and most likely end up making you disqualified because of it

[pastel thunder]

yeah true.

[vapid jay]

I have been working at a big tech company for a little more than half a year now. I am a new graduate with a degree in CS and ive been thrown into the middle of a project in Angular. I dont really know any angular and ive been learning it for a few months now. I have a grasp on the basics but it feels like theres so much stuff in the codebase, things like dependencies and components that are in house, as well as these files being updated constantly. Literally dozens of components that we are using reguarly and I keep forgetting what they do. I feel very emberrassed because I cannot finish an assignment without asking for help and basically having my hand held through it. If its simply UI/UX changes then i have no problem, but its rarely that simple. This is my first tech job.

[celest sail]

Just get better and study ^

[vapid jay]

I know man

I just wanna know if anyone has been in a similar scenario and what they did specifically to get out of it.

[celest sail]

Not about what you know you have to be resourceful. Its okay to be bad if you are starting out but try your ass off and memorize stuff you have been told.

And do the research work before you ask somthing

[vapid jay]

yeah. I feel like for the most part i'm just refactoring really bad code. most of my pull requests have been taking someones horribly written code from 1 year ago or so and rewriting it from scratch.

It is frustrating seeing how some of these people think writing 5 for loops with 3 conditions each is a good idea

[pastel thunder]

a recruiter has asked to be "prepared with pen and paper" in next interview, their focus was statictics + DL models.
i have decided to brush up:
PCA
t-SNE
Metrics like AUC, Confusion,
working of losses (log based, naive bayes)
Ensemble learning
Random forest

they also said they like to go "in details"
what other thing should i go through?

[celest sail]

What area?

[pastel thunder]

ML

[celest sail]

Thats sick

[smoky quest]

It's normal to be overwhelmed when you join. But after 6months, you should be able to navigate yourself and spend time reading the code of the components yourself. You may not be familiar with everything and know everything, but you should start building some autonomy
the main difference is wither you are asking question you can find answer on google or if someone does the work for you

[smoky quest]

you could ask for more details?

[pastel thunder]

i thought it would be bad to ask to much, i had already asked many question on their deployed model (all answer were no, so didnt provide much clue)

[vapid jay]

yeah, it seems like most of the stuff isnt googleable, its just questions about what a certain file is doing because there is like no documentation for it I guess which turns into a whole thing where I dont know what im doing.

[pastel thunder]

but statitics, dimenitonality reduction was quite stressed upon

[vapid jay]

also like first 2 months were basically training about company culture

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't see it as too much. Up to you. But that's a pretty broad area without more details

[smoky quest]

What happens when you read the source code of that file?
It's common to have the code as documentation 😉

[pastel thunder]

if it helps, they use multispectral image(capture image at different wavelength- UV, visible, infrared) as dataset, and have basically 220 image of one object, and their task is to identify mycotoxin(which cause food to go bad) in it.

[smoky quest]

They could either use their real use case as a good test of what you would have to solve in real life. Or they could have something completely different and boxed so that they can assess some of the skills. Or something completely different

[vapid jay]

i hover over a bunch of variables and dont understand them at all.

[smoky quest]

Reading code you didn't write is a skill you may want to work on

[vapid jay]

Im thinking if i spend 2-3 hours a day after work to learn this stuff i can be a pro by the time its over

[celest sail]

That seems like the most boring part of cv looking for mold on stuff.

[celest sail]

And writing readable code

[pseudo pond]

I was about to have a coding assessment with Testdome. What kind of questions should I expect with it?

[queen star]

Anyone knows about fiverr

[upbeat ruin]

its a website

[queen star]

What do you know about this

[fleet delta]

probably less than what a simple search on google can tell you

so why are you asking it here

[upbeat ruin]

you'd have to be more specific in your questioning

[queen star]

Does anyone get anything from Google user research program

[desert scroll]

Greetings, I can make mobile applications for you. If you have a design, prices start from $ 50, if you say you do not have a design, prices start from $ 70. May be negotiable, contact via dm. For iOS

[analog sun]

!tempban 854782742013411328 14d It seems like you're only here to solicit paid work. Please reread our rules before coming back.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @desert scroll until <t:1680615527:f> (14 days).

[hazy spindle]

I'm guessing what the answer will be, and I've looked around on Reddit too - but as I'm here......are there any Python certs that are worth anything to a hiring manager?

[near ocean]

A degree, otherwise not really

[hazy spindle]

About 20 years too late for that nonsense 😄

[near ocean]

I've seen bootcamps recommended in these situations
Alongside projects ofc

[hazy spindle]

Yeah, doubt it's justifiable for me - I'm basically a Windows SysAdmin with a cunk of C#, powerShell experience trying to shunt myself more into the DevOps space

But that's fine, had there been a recognised / decent cert I woudl have targeted it is all

[near ocean]

For devops you could aim for a cloud provider issued cert
For python there just arent any good ones

[hazy spindle]

Yeah, I'm on it - going through the AWS track

[delicate bane]

the basic one, cloud practitioner, doesnt mean anything btw

[hazy spindle]

Yeah that looked useless, I'm doing the SysOps one for now

I have some Azure certs, but I think AWS is going to be more useful

[delicate bane]

@true harness lmao psvm you knew this didnt you? most peeps skip to solutions architect or developer

[true harness]

lol. i have no reference point for any of these things

[delicate bane]

well now you do. its not like itll matter too much until maybe your internship

[true harness]

if i get one 🤞

[delicate bane]

you will. i believe

[near ocean]

aws certified any% speedrun

[zealous path]

Believe in me who believes in you

My friend got his Alteryx cert paid for by his company so that’s pog

[hazy spindle]

I don't think I've ever had a cert paid for 😦

[true harness]

currently struggling through k8s and linode docs so maybe i should 😬

[zealous path]

Depends on the company but most mid-big companies here in the U.K. will pay for certs if you need it for your job

Or just to upskill you

[hazy spindle]

Yeah, back in the early 00's there seemed to be less focus/interest - well, at least in the firms I was in - then I went self employed and I guess that was that!

[delicate bane]

dont ask me about that stuff. thats DWs area

[zealous path]

My company offers Actuarial and Data Science certs/degrees all paid for.
I think it’s a year of studying (you take one day off each week) and then you just need to pass the exam.

[hazy spindle]

That's very cool, very nice perk

[buoyant seal]

Definitely can recommend this book for nice structured jump start into kubernetes 🙂 Together with using as first kubernetes cluster, some kind of managed one like Digital Ocean kubernetes cluster, it will be very smooth simple experience. About Linode cluster unsure for sure... i remember it was probably acceptable at similar level

[buoyant seal]

😉

[coral vine]

You all were right! Scam. The recruiter was pretending to be a legitimate company. After asking if I have further questions, and myself mentioning the possibility of this being a scam, they became responseless o.o

So I guess it’s important to check the email domain names reputation. There are random sounding ones like “@applytojob.com” “@sparkhire.com” but those ones are real.

Scam will use a random domain name like “[e-mail]”

[unborn bridge]

This is how my first online interview just went:
12:15 Sent them an e-mail confirming the online meeting link works, and that I'll see them in 15 minutes
12:29 I log into the meeting
12:30 The wifi dies
12:33 The wifi returns and I log in, and the sound doesn't work
12:34 I fix the sound, and he proceeds to apologize and tell me he needs to reschedule for next week

The anxiety of those 5 minutes was intense. I think seeing the guy and hearing his voice, and having him be humble and apologizing as well as just chill will reduce the anxiety for next time though. I already like the guy.

[sleek egret]

yar

[sleek egret]

awe, sorry to hear that

[coral vine]

Target of elaborate scam Dx I checked the other companies I’ve interviewed with and those were all real because the first email is “[e-mail]”

Then after that first email, it has random domain names that are actually legitimate like “@applytojob.com” etc when they start to redirect you around

[delicate bane]

good thing you asked here. @ivory sluice fyi

[coral vine]

It was a good scam because in my head I was thinking it does make sense to hire a recruiter from a different company to start the initial phases o.o

[ivory sluice]

ah yeah email is a good thing to check, though i believe those can be spoofed as well

i believe linkedin has a way for you to report scam job listings

it's up to you, but i would contact the company as well and let them know

[coral vine]

This sounds so accurate to my own experiences Dx except with more blanking out from nervousness. But I only blanked out for the first online interview. My nerves went down drastically as I interviewed more or started to naturally see more of the interview format in my head, knew more of what to expect

[true harness]

oof

[coral vine]

The way they scammed was they linked an actual real job listing

[ivory sluice]

in my company we hire external recruiting services, but we give them an [e-mail] and access to our hiring tool (lever) so that all their communications to/from candidates are available to us

[coral vine]

How would I tell the company about the scammer? Tell them about the scammers email addresses? And the stolen contract?

[ivory sluice]

would call and ask for how to contact their HR to inform them of this scam using their company name and then ask where you can email them

[coral vine]

Look at how real it looks Dx

[ivory sluice]

there are cases where you have headhunters/recruiters with their own company email that would be paid by the company that wants to hire, but that would be all very clear up front.

[true harness]

is gdb worth it for the resume? I know "👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏" but imo this is assumed knowledge, but then again someone said to put git

[coral vine]

I’ll contact the company. What happens to scammers that get reported? Don’t they just go do the same thing under a different name again?

[ivory sluice]

i imagine depends on how far the company wants to take it. they might not care, or maybe they'll get their legal team involved.

[true harness]

any thoughts? for context I'm in the US looking for internships

[sleek egret]

most of the time, nothing happens to them

[coral vine]

I spoke to a friend about it and he said he would also report it to www.cybercrime.gov so I guess I’ll report it to both :/

[sleek egret]

when there are a few thousand other complaints or evidence that millions of $'s have been scammed, they might look into it

[true harness]

should have made one of those scamming scammers videos

[coral vine]

Ya he mentioned it “starts the wheels of justice” Dx

[dreamy spade]

How many developers are usually in a company?

[true harness]

from 0 to a lot

[sleek egret]

between 0 and 10's of thousands

I can't think of a company with over 100k software developers. But it might exist.

[true harness]

maybe when all the tech companies merge together into a giant monopoly owned by the government

[sleek egret]

hmm, it seems that some indian software dev outsource shops have over 100k developers. infosys ahas 335k employees, tata consulting has 616k and accenture has 738k so they could easily have over 100k software devs

though accenture isn't indian, per se

thus, I will restate my answer to "between 0 and 100's of thousands"

[sleek egret]

may I ask why you asked?

[strong lava]

sometimes I find myself stressing over whether I'll get a job in tech, or whether or not whatever I'm making/doing is even portfolio worthy, or whether or not it's really what I want. I'm young, and won't really need to concern myself with that stuff until I'm at or past university... yet I still think about it 🙃

[dreamy spade]

It sounds like big weight being carried behind your back if you are the only software engineer in your entire company.

[sleek egret]

or your company doesn't need much in the way of software dev

but let's say it does matter. wouldn't you rather be important and have an impact?

[dreamy spade]

Not in entry-level

[true harness]

it's understandable, but also i don't think a company would hire an entry level dev to be the first dev

[sleek egret]

I'm afraid I can't relate. I was super arrogant and thought I knew everything when I started out.

[true harness]

probably wasn't that much to know way back when /j

[sleek egret]

wait, are you calling me old?

[coral vine]

Way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth

[sleek egret]

dinos are a myth created by satan to test our faith

[coral vine]

Scamzilla is real though o.o

[sleek egret]

my first "real job" out of university was as one of two guys (the other guy was even less skilled than I was) who were tasked to write a desktop app for the MacOS that managed financial asset allocation.

I had never written a full desktop app. I knew nothing about finance. It included everything from a database to graphing to reporting to D/L financial data from an online system... and this was in 1989.

[true harness]

you're not in university yet? i wouldn't be too worried yet

[sleek egret]

it was all new to me. the most complex thing I had written before this was a "bug" that crawled around your screen and ate the pixels

[strong lava]

still in high school, yes

[sleek egret]

shouldn't you be worried about how to get beer and into girls pants?

[hearty island]

i know people in college who are still worried about that

[sleek egret]

heh

[strong lava]

I guess it's just anxiety, if that's even the right word for it

[sleek egret]

stop worrying. do what you need to do but otherwise have fun.

[coral vine]

So how did you build it if you didn’t know anything o.o

[cobalt tinsel]

So I had one question for which I made a reddit post... Can I paste it's content here?

[summer roost]

If it's on topic, sure

[cobalt tinsel]

"So I started working in an internship as a QA Intern at a PBC. I'm really not interested in QA, I just really went in for the money I was getting. So It has already been a month since I joined here, everything is nice. We are around 10 interns in a team, there's this one guy who happens to be my roommate who sits day and night working on tasks which has been assigned to us. He tries to put in that extra effort and try to catch the attention of the manager and other seniors (and he did get noticed).

So I was wondering if it is okay if I don't put in that extra effort? I usually do other stuff (completing the fsopen course, do problem solving) when I have the time (not at office hours). I do get all my tasks done at time just that I'm not that proactive."

[sleek egret]

I learned by reading a lot and experimenting.

[cobalt tinsel]

I'm planning to switch after the internship anyway as I can't keep working in QA since I'm not interested

[sleek egret]

Define what you mean by "ok"

[cobalt tinsel]

by ok I mean just completing the tasks I have been assigned, like doing the work which has been expected from me?

[sleek egret]

no, you asked if "it was okay" if you did that

what do you mean by "okay"?

[true harness]

don't people call that "quiet quitting" these days

[sleek egret]

which may be fine for some objectives and not for others

[cobalt tinsel]

by okay I mean, I wouldn't get fired for not going that extra mile for sure, It'll stop my learning in the domain of QA but I'm still progressing on the development side... wait I think I'm making this more confusing :'D*

[spark cobalt]

I don't see a problem with it

[smoky quest]

It's okay to not put the extra effort. But you also have to be okay not getting the same outcome than your friend

[spark cobalt]

You got what you needed from the internship, experience and knowing that this shit ain't for you

[sleek egret]

if I may be so bold, I suspect you are experiencing this angst because you are unclear about your own goals and objectives. first you must decide what your destination is. only then can you determine the path you need to take to get there.

[spark cobalt]

Just try to learn as much as you can from there, spend that extra time focusing on your other goals.

[sleek egret]

note, there is nothing wrong with drifting through life without a goal if that is what makes you happy

but if you want to do that, be honest with yourself about it

[cobalt tinsel]

This is right, but how? Tbh I was working on the dev side before joining here, The company itself is on the verge of shutting down and so the work was also mediocre there. Then I joined at my current company seeking a change but now I think QA isn't for me. The fault is with me

[sleek egret]

in western pop-philosophy, this is known as "finding yourself". the flip side of freedom is that you need to create your own goals. there's no shame in having a tough time with that, many people are in the same boat.

[cobalt tinsel]

yes, that's what I'm doing right now.

[delicate bane]

oh and whats the eastern equivalent?

[smoky quest]

you may also want to project yourself a bit in the future, how in 2 years that internship will help you, or not, with your jobs.
That could be through the references you get now by impressing them, the skills you acquire and demonstrate or specific projects/tasks you do

[sleek egret]

in the east, you are told to do what is best for your family. life is more about duty.

[delicate bane]

interesting

[sleek egret]

many people find that restrictive and long for freedom. just as many people in the west (unknowingly) long for structure and direction.

[delicate bane]

interesting interesting

[sleek egret]

every culture has strengths and weaknesses. often they are the same thing

[true harness]

is gdb worth it for the resume? I know "👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏" but imo this is assumed knowledge, but then again someone said to put git. for context I'm in the US looking for internships

[sleek egret]

not many people know how to use gdb these days. so I suggest you put it on your resume

[cobalt tinsel]

The only thing I find good in my current internship and future job would be the pay. Also I'm not sure how common is this in the west but here companies think If you have or are now currently working in QA you can't switch to dev and stuff. So they either reject you or try to shift you to a similar role. I would have been okay with that if I was interested in QA but I'm not (yet).

[true harness]

it's only 3 characters +2 a comma and space so it's pretty small anyway

[sleek egret]

I know a guy who started out working as a paralegal, then he was a guitarist in a band, then an A&R rep for a record company, then a commercial video producer, then an interior designer.

[cobalt tinsel]

and then he became a programmer? 🤔

[sleek egret]

another friend of mine started as a personal assistant to an exec at a japanese bank, then she worked back office at a investment bank in fixed income, worked her way up to VP, then was a consultant on financial back-office software implementations and now manages an IT operations group. she majored in Japanese in university.

[delicate bane]

oh interesting. here i think it depends on the company but theyre more open to allowing you to switch areas

[smoky quest]

Yeah, that's why solely focusing on just the pay is not the best global optimization

[sleek egret]

my point is that careers can take winding paths if you're willing to take risks

[cobalt tinsel]

I'm not even sure If programming/CS is something I can do for long, but how do I figure out what I can do best if I hadn't tried anything else explicitly as a profession (this might sound really dumb)

[sleek egret]

you could, you know, try other things. just a thought.

[cobalt tinsel]

I might now

[sleek egret]

as the wise sage Yoda once said, "do. or do not. there is no might."

[delicate bane]

sometimes you do have to try something first

[dreamy shadow]

That's propaganda.

[delicate bane]

dont forget "quiet hiring". people taking on additional responsibilities outside of their job description due to recent layoffs/restructuring

[sleek egret]

I agree with skyglow. it's just slackers trying to make themselves feel better because other people are slacking too.

some people have slacked since before the dawn of civilization

those people never became overseer of 100 ditch diggers in ancient babylon. they just stayed ditch diggers.

[dreamy shadow]

That's just called "Getting F..."

[delicate bane]

[true harness]

well back in the day you were allowed to whip people that weren't working

[sleek egret]

ah, the good ole days

@dreamy shadow lol, that's a great emoji

[dreamy shadow]

I feel like this week of work is the "random BS" week. Getting null counts of tables, roadmaps, some other nonsense.

[sleek egret]

could be worse

[delicate bane]

evolution when

[dreamy shadow]

Feels like I'm getting pigeon holed into an analyst role.

[sleek egret]

so break out by doing other things?

[delicate bane]

devolution? jk

[celest sail]

Work sucks it just sucks less if you do somthing you enjoy and get paid well

[sleek egret]

work isn't supposed to be fun. if it was, it would be called "fun" and you'd pay them.

[true harness]

😔 it's too much. it goes onto the next line which makes my resume 2 pages

[sleek egret]

just adjust the kerning a bit

[true harness]

that sounds too difficult. i'll just eliminate maven or something

[celest sail]

I enjoy both my jobs they just don’t pay well because research.

[sleek egret]

it's trivial in a real word processor

[true harness]

it's possible in luatex, but i think i can just remove postgresql, since i already mention sql in languages, and mention it in my projects

[celest sail]

What nosql sevices are you using production wise

[sleek egret]

only newbs use nosql

[true harness]

redis is the only one i've really used

[sleek egret]

keydb is a better redis

[celest sail]

Unstructured to structured with graphql

[sleek egret]

essentially a redis 2.0. original architects of redis created keydb.

[true harness]

interesting

[celest sail]

I am noob tho

[true harness]

is this a book title or something

[sleek egret]

then nosql is perfect for you!

lol... in case you guys couldn't tell, I'm mostly joking about nosql

[celest sail]

Nah just learning full stack backend and make backend changes constantly.

[true harness]

nosql is planet scale

[dreamy shadow]

Just use excel sheets.

[sleek egret]

reality is a graphdb

[celest sail]

reality is just connected knowledge in neo4j

[dreamy shadow]

got random meeting from someone else for me to explain how the data lake works.

[delicate bane]

we just deprecated our graphdb lol

[sleek egret]

so you... rejected... reality?!?!?

[delicate bane]

anyway we should probably stick to careers

[true harness]

should i keep git on my resume? running out of space 😬

[dreamy shadow]

Got to keep that.

[delicate bane]

if its between git and gdb, i think git should win

[dreamy shadow]

ATS: No git?

[true harness]

oh well i have both now. i took off postgres, since i already mention sql in langs and postgres in my projects

[delicate bane]

thats good

[true harness]

what if i put my resume project on my resume 🤔 maybe that's too meta. it has CI/CD lul

[celest sail]

git[hub|lab]?

[true harness]

just "git". theres' another "Github Actions" entry, but i think that should stay on

[coral vine]

Resume project ? What’s that

[celest sail]

Im not sure but are we talking released actions? Github actions makes me feel like I just slap in somone elses code

[true harness]

well it's just my resume, so it's not really a project, lol. but it builds a pdf on push. i also wanted to make a preprocessor for it to reorder keywords, but that has pretty much fizzled out and died. not queued yet

[coral vine]

Sounds interesting. Reorder words on resume with what criteria? Like alphabetize?

[sleek egret]

I friend of a friend built his own printer from scratch. as in machined all the parts himself. he even wrote the firmware. and put his resume into it. then he sent the scratch built printer to HP as his "resume". when turned on, it printed out his resume.

needless to say, he got a job offer in the printer division.

[pine sleet]

based

[true harness]

based on a job description, or something. more relevant terms first

[coral vine]

Ohhh that sounds really useful and convenient if you build that

And you’d prolly use that tool for the rest of your life

With really tiny readaptations xD

[sleek egret]

I think the resume project needs some AI

[coral vine]

Sounds like a way more fun way of job hunting and skipping interviews too

[coral vine]

Why?

[sleek egret]

because it's 2023 and 2023 is the year of AI

[true harness]

it seems i've gotten another interview

[sleek egret]

good luck

[true harness]

it probably would require it to be remotely useful. otherwise i'm stuck with making regexes or something for each keyword in my resume

kind of a weird situation,

My name is Name Name with Company Name. I reviewed your resume and would like to speak with you concerning the position. Please give me a call
at your convenience (phone number).
is this unusual 🤔. seems quite unorganized

oh. they called me and i have an actual interview scheduled onw. so it seems i did not have to call them (hooray)

[delicate bane]

ayyy congrats!

summer internship im assuming

[true harness]

well, it doesn't say explicitly summer, but spring is kind of ending soon, so

[hearty island]

it seems like i might something too, i sent a cold email to a company asking about project management internships and they were like sure we can schedule something with you and the senior vice president of marketing

[celest sail]

I will just build them the product before I ask them for the job to build the product.

[celest sail]

Share your secrets man

[true harness]

bruh how is it that easy

[hearty island]

dude i’m asking myself the same question

[true harness]

uh. i made a resume and spammed it a bunch of places

[celest sail]

Company portal or job sites

[true harness]

both

[spark cobalt]

Handshake 🤝

[delicate bane]

you should try it too. i think you would be very successful with your resume

just work on your cold email skills

[true harness]

i suspect most places just reject me based on my grade level

[delicate bane]

dont lead with that

[coral vine]

But public void honestly

Can you please complete that resume project so I can use it? I wana be able to import my resume and screenshot of company job description and have it spit out a relevant resume 😄

[celest sail]

Build your own mail server and scraper network to spam your resume and document the processes of reverse engineering phishing and whaling kits you say

[true harness]

maybe in a few months...or years..

[delicate bane]

your story should be this is a strong programmer who happens to be at this grade level

[true harness]

i wouldn't talk about my grade level at all if i was going to do that

[spark cobalt]

Or just cut out the grade level part entirely

[delicate bane]

but they wont truly figure that out unless they look at your graduation year.

[delicate bane]

you shouldnt. i didnt mean to imply that

[celest sail]

Create your own university and then send in your resume as a phd student

[coral vine]

Are you the one who tried to scam me yesterday

[celest sail]

No def not im a security researcher

[coral vine]

What grade? o.o

[true harness]

frosh

[jolly wigeon]

Hi guys,A working professional here with 1.5 year of low code experience but unfortuantely due to low code, i didn't get to learn any programming language. Now i have decided to prepare for dsa but i am assuming a need to grasp a programming language before starting my dsa journey.
Personally i am thinking about python since i feel like it's more comfortable but i am also thinking about javascript as my work usually includes front end developement.
Can you guys suggest which language should i pick up to start my dsa journey.

[celest sail]

Learn basics and specialize ^ learn how to read docs. Be able to explain every part of what you do and how it works

[true harness]

i would recommend either python or C

[celest sail]

Rust

[spark cobalt]

Do whatever you're comfortable in. I personally prefer Python, there's generally more resources for Python than JavaScript.

One of the books I like is Elements of the Programming Interview, and they have a Python edition. Idt they have a JS one.

[spark cobalt]

My company makes everyone do C on OA and tech rounds

[jolly wigeon]

Yes i am also comfortable with python syntax as i practiced in my college days, but i feel like since it's almost 2 years now i have to start from scratch and actually do some coding.

[celest sail]

or just continue not coding but python is a readable languge unless specialized or doing somthing stupid

[jolly wigeon]

Actually i feel like if i am not coding, i m limiting myself

[delicate bane]

why wouldnt you recommend javascript. curious

[celest sail]

It about understanding not coding

[true harness]

i don't know js

[celest sail]

I know vanilla but suck ass at frameworks

[delicate bane]

oh man i dont have a js emote.

[jolly wigeon]

But all the high paying dev jobs require some form of dsa and coding

[celest sail]

Learn cicd and do dev ops

[spark cobalt]

Just do what you're comfortable with.

[celest sail]

Python + nocode

[smoky quest]

So what have you done for 1.5 years?

[jolly wigeon]

Basically we are building web applications using low code platform (in my case it's MENDIX)

[smoky quest]

you are fucking yourself over then if you want a software development job.
You will need to demonstrate you are able to write code proficiently with not only DSA but also projects

[celest sail]

What issues make you not want to do non low code

[deft herald]

What is "low code"?

[smoky quest]

like webflow, with drag and drop UIs

[hearty island]

i used chat gpt for my cold email

[deft herald]

ah, we called that WYSIWYG in my day

[delicate bane]

hmm looks like some dashboarding tool

or you can make dashboards with it lol

[coral vine]

Mac has no vidya games 😔

Edit: nvm , didn’t see “non” xD. Well reverse is… mac is nice

[jolly wigeon]

Hmm

[smoky quest]

from any company interviewing you, you will be no different than a QA wanting to transition into dev, for instance

[delicate bane]

what was your prompt

[celest sail]

Disagree to an extent if he understands how somthing is done its better then qa

[true harness]

hard to convey that over a resume. maybe a cover letter is appropriate?

[celest sail]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Co48Zcggvis/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[jolly wigeon]

Well my work include building these apps using this low code platform and basically handling of data too using snowflake, Google cloud platform etc. I wanna make transition to full cloud coz i also feel like i m limiting myself to this low code tool so i am starting to learn python airflow, Google cloud functions, snowflake etc

[smoky quest]

yeah, it's a good move to try to transition to swe overall.
The point of no-code is you can also hire less skilled people

[celest sail]

So take gcp or aws skills and get certs

[smoky quest]

same could be said for qa. Not all qa is manual testing

[jolly wigeon]

Yeah thats what i m thinking currently but i was also thinking about starting coding and prepare dsa and all for product based companies

It's not qa that's for sure, it's not like there's no coding at all. Html,css, javascript are needed to code the frontend which is my part

Backend whole part is handled my mendix itself

[smoky quest]

that's something to highlight in your resume

[celest sail]

Learn cloud integration stuff learn the standard production workflow for starters and the theory behind it

[pastel thunder]

what happens to equity when leaving a start up?

[jolly wigeon]

But yeah i am also thinking about starting dsa and you know prepare for product based companies, that's why wanted to know other people opinions

[pastel thunder]

and if startups dont have esops, right?

[jolly wigeon]

At this point i have to choose ig, either prepare for dsa and all for product based or completely focus on cloud computing like gcp, snowflake etc

Not sure which one is a better move

[smoky quest]

it's defined in your contract.
In general, the exercised is yours (unless there is a claw back), the unvested is lost, and the vested can be exercised within X months (typically 3)

[smoky quest]

you will be asked about it in most cases.
It's a trade off between a language with batteries included (ex: python) and the languages used in the roles you target

[hearty island]

generate a cold email for a student applying for a project management internship at a company.

[celest sail]

If you can do dsa do dsa if you wanna learn cloud learn cloud. Do both if possible or determine which one makes more sense

I cant make that decision for you with limited information

[pastel thunder]

i am very new to it, can you please tell me in layman terms or a resource to get knowledge on this?

[celest sail]

You need to feed it relevant information first so your current abilities and understanding plus achievements

[smoky quest]

See https://www.holloway.com/g/equity-compensation

[celest sail]

Dont feed it personal information because gpt is likely already a massive target storing conversations

[jolly wigeon]

Yeah like both have good opportunities ig but yeah i want to master atleast 1 language in which i can say i am good you know. Python seemed very interesting to me from the start. Made some very simple projects too in college days but after getting job, because of this low code work. I just didn't code. But now i feel like that was a mistake and i wanna get something going.

Like it's so conflicting because the work i am doing contained so much front end so i thought going with javascript made sense to you know complete that web development package but i don't the learning and syntax and all of others very good and comfortable as i coded in this in my clg days too plus you know python is ruling the world rn imo.

[celest sail]

Python is easiest and makes the most sense so learn workflows for autodoc, testing, security, containers, and make scalable projects. Deploy the projects on aws lambda and design the architecture. Use the standard python large project notation and folder structure. Put your front end skills to work for a good ui.

[jolly wigeon]

Tbh i have no idea what half of these things even mean lol🥲 like security containers etc

[celest sail]

Its not hard don’t worry. Just start with sast you can literally click one button and github does it for you.

Docker is sort of like a local container example you have multiple server representations and test your networking skills.

[true harness]

yeah most of that was gibberish tbh. "standard python large project notation" ?? security containers?

[smoky quest]

Given your experience, you may want to start with a frontend role then?

[celest sail]

Imagine you are working on a large project and build it that way

When someone looks at you code working as if on a larger project they go that person could also work on my large project and then the hire you.

But this is in a developer sense not a business sense since they only care about results

[jolly wigeon]

Exploring my options rn tbh

[jolly wigeon]

Hmm yeah but first i need to learn alot ig

[true harness]

most of what they said was incomprehensible, fwiw

[celest sail]

Thats mean lol

[jolly wigeon]

Haha

[celest sail]

What ever il try to make it simpler

Learning python through reading other peoples code on open source projects and dsa projects and understanding how things fit together is important.

So do that alongside learning the basics and go for frontend roles on dsa projects

[jolly wigeon]

Hmm that's actually a very good idea

Yeah ty

There's cloud computing too,i don't wanna jump in all of them. That's why doing my research so i can choose 1 path like either focus on dsa and python or focus on cloud computing and try to learn gcp snowflake etc

[true harness]

imo dsa skills are necessary to do any sort of development

[jolly wigeon]

Yeah

Okay ig for now I'll focus on improving my python and once i am comfortable in writing code then I'll start my dsa journey and grind questions

[spark cobalt]

I'd focus on theory before mindlessly grinding questions.

[celest sail]

^

[spark cobalt]

I recommend Grokking and Elements of the Programming Interview

[jolly wigeon]

Is that a book or....?

[spark cobalt]

Both are books

I believe Grokking has an online course version too, but I never did that.

Most of my learning of new concepts comes from books.

[true harness]

the book CLRS is very good

[spark cobalt]

Oh your name is two words

[jolly wigeon]

Ohh thanks, yeah please.

[true harness]

oh it is lmao

[spark cobalt]

[true harness]

next thing you'll say is your name means wild emergency room

[spark cobalt]

[celest sail]

If you look them up it will save you time working with others. Also things like deploying stuff to pip. mypy if you are into torturing yourself.

[true harness]

there isn't a "standard python large project notation", though. unless you mean things like pyproject.toml? and security containers aren't a thing as far as i know

[celest sail]

What if you want to deploy a package quickly

[river coral]

Do companies in US/Canada care about what institute your CS degree is from or do they only care that you have one?

I live in a third world country - planning to immigrate to Canada and start a career as a developer. I want to do a Masters in CS from here before I move (no background in CS). The affordable universities here aren't really that good. Hence, the question.

[celest sail]

Like learn about wheel builds and stuff

[celest sail]

If everybody just does what they want there will be issues connecting things

[true harness]

the bare minimum is that it needs to be accredited. it does matter, but the difference between universities is far smaller than the difference between having and not having a degree

[celest sail]

I meant security and containers seperated

[true harness]

sure, but it's not called the standard python large project notation. it's just called...how you package libraries and apps

[river coral]

The universities I talk about are accredited and recognized by the higher education department in my country but I don't know whether these universities are accredited in Canada too. How do I check that?

[true harness]

if they're accredited in your country that should be fine, i think

[celest sail]

There is no standard notation but it makes sense to make something modular.

[river coral]

You'd say the difference is huge in the demand in the job market if a person has a CS degree vs a self-taught developer?

[true harness]

yes. especially if you're looking to immigrate

[spark cobalt]

Very.

[celest sail]

Even with a cs degree it is difficult to get a entry level job right now

[leaden jasper]

For entry level roles, yes. There is a large demand for programmers, but the entry level roles are very competitive

[celest sail]

^

[spark cobalt]

The issue is mostly how are you going to stand out from individuals who spent 4 years in higher education in CS.

[leaden jasper]

It's also something that's a thing in the engineering fields, there's a large demand for mid to senior level folks, but it's saturated for those first roles.

[spark cobalt]

You're competing against other entry level developers for jobs, and for the most part they're all CS degree holders.

[celest sail]

internships or relevant experience

Start like the Google cloud research group to seo poison your resume. GCP discontinued api tracker to predict your next heart break. Get certified in the areas you have skills.

But getting a degree is just one of those certifications. Entry job market is bad

[true harness]

a degree is the most important certification you can have

[royal quest]

can anyone in here help me code 1D chess

[celest sail]

^ as a start a job or internship at highly recognized company are equally or more important

[celest sail]

Yes lookup a video and understand the logic behind the decisions

If you are confused ask gpt to explain alternative solutions.

[deft herald]

1D chess? So like, the board is just a long line of squares?

[royal quest]

theres a bunch of rules to it but its a line of 9 squares

[deft herald]

woah

[alpine coral]

I don't know how to ask, but I'll try. What are the best type of "extension courses"(idk how it is called in english) to do, while studying for data science? I'm asking that because I'll have to do one of these because of parents. So I would be happy to know what is the most related to this field, as atleast in my country, there isn't a specific extension course (course that you do with high school) to data science.

[sleek egret]

the courses needed for "data science" tend to be university level only and assume a higher degree of mathematics theory than the vast majority of HS's provide.

[white relic]

Secondary school systems are very different around the world. the concept of extension courses might not really exist in any English speaking countries, which might be why you're having trouble translating it

[sleek egret]

classes would cover the gamut from probability & statistics, linear algebra, multi-variate calculus up to possibly analysis, stochastic calc and tensor calc.

along with various software/computer science stuff, of course

[white relic]

perhaps you could list some options and we could suggest which ones might best prepare you for a math heavy university program

[sleek egret]

it might also help if you said what "my country" is

[alpine coral]

Brazil

[alpine coral]

Idk how to explain. There are some types of governamental instituitons that offer some technical coursers that you can do while on high school. But inside my scope, there is limited options

I'll list some of them:

analysis and systems development,
computing and computing for internet (in the coding area)

and Accounting

[sleek egret]

just as an FYI, that "analysis" is unlikely to be mathematical analysis. that said, those classes would probably be helpful for a career in "data science". accounting is always helpful for general business knowledge.

[alpine coral]

So, the best is to go with accounting or systems development?

[sleek egret]

there is no best

[hearty island]

i wish i was an accounting major, i actually enjoyed my accounting classes

[alpine coral]

So, guess I'll go with the systems development, as it could help me at get better at coding in general. Atleast it is only 1,5 years

[celest sail]

Found the masochist I had to do accounting by hand in hs it was terrible.

[hearty island]

oh my prof was amazing

but i put a lot of work in too

[supple jolt]

does anyone know the name of this font

[near ocean]

Not the channel for this
Try #user-interfaces

[supple jolt]

aight mb

[vagrant turtle]

hi

[glacial bronze]

Dont try it

[rough tree]

can someone get job without degree

[smoky quest]

someone could, but that would unlikely be the same jobs than someone with a degree

[rough tree]

I think it's based on skills

[smoky quest]

If you are in HS or college age, a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[smoky quest]

indeed! Skills that CS degree holders have acquired by studying it for it full time for 3-5 years non-stop

[rough tree]

No in today world most of the collages teach 10 year old syllabus

[pine sleet]

That is a moot point

Besides, there's more to higher education than the degree. The people you meet, the structure, are all valuable

[smoky quest]

The point of school is to prepare you for your whole 40 years career, not to teach you the latest js library that will be replaced in 6 months. To that end, there is a strong emphasis on theory which will remain useful and applicable

[rough tree]

and in today's fast-paced world, you have to be prepared for switching your career and keen to learn new skills every 6 months

you just can't relay on your collage

[smoky quest]

That's exactly why you want to rely on your college. Because they taught you the theory and fundamentals which will help you keep up and continue to hone and learn new skills.
Without the fundamentals and the theory, you will just be very limited in what you can do

[rough tree]

In today's digital era if you are a hard worker and if you have an interest in something you can learn everything by yourself you don't need to lean old fashioned style of learning these days big companies such as google said we don't care your degree , show me your skills

[smoky quest]

yet, you would hardly be hired at google without a degree 😉

[pine sleet]

It's not uncommon for your resume to just be ignored if you don't have a degree on it

[summer roost]

Is it within the realm of possibility? Yes. Is it as likely as someone with a degree getting that same job? No.

[rough tree]

Yeah but if you are intelligent as F you don't need any degree you can build your own company 😆

[smoky quest]

lol no. That's a misconception.
Hard work prime over intelligence. And intelligence without knowledge is nothing. And on top of that building a company requires a whole new set of skills

[rough tree]

Yeah if company requires new skills then that intelligent guy will learn easily that skill

[smoky quest]

if they want to. If they have that opportunity. If they have the resources to

[summer roost]

The intelligent guy with the degree probably has an easier time learning that new skill than the intelligent guy without the degree. And the one with the degree is more likely to be given the new opportunity.

[rough tree]

I have seen many guys who have degrees but they don't get jobs so they become sweepers but if you are intelligent then you can make your own company of sweepers 😋

[summer roost]

I'm not really clear on what your goal is here. You asked a question, 3 people gave the same answer, and then you argued with them. What was the point of asking the question, if you were already convinced you knew the answer?

[smoky quest]

what about the ones who get the high paying cs jobs?

[rough tree]

Let me give you an example of India: A survey was conducted in India and they found that only 20% are eligible to get a job other 80% are not so you are talking about ones who get high-paying CS jobs they might be intelligent enough to get the job ..... So the whole summary of the conversation is that if you are intelligent as F and a Hard worker you can do everything in life and getting a job without CS degree is just a small thing

[spark cobalt]

That's a big if. Very few people are able to do it.

It's a lot of work when you get down to it. Not everyone has the freedom to just be a hard worker for CS when bills need to be paid.

[smoky quest]

You need to include the point from Godlygeek. The point is that someone smart is great, but they won't be as great as someone who is smart and educated.

[summer roost]

I will say that I don't understand the education system in India terribly well, but from everything I've heard, even greater emphasis is placed on higher education and credentials in India than in most western countries

[pine sleet]

I attest, as an Indian who went through their education system

[smoky quest]

and also we need to cue in the meme about how everyone think they are smarter than the average

[rough tree]

if you can build great projects then you don't need to think you are smarter ...You already are smarter than average

[summer roost]

If you think the average degree holder can't build great projects, you are badly mistaken

[rough tree]

have you ever studied in India

[smoky quest]

that's true in some way. The question is: can you? Because that's what matters in the end for this discussion

[rough tree]

I didn't said degree holder can't make I am talking about the one who doesn't have degree

[summer roost]

But they're not your competition for jobs.

You brought up Google earlier. If you want a software engineer job at Google, the overwhelming majority of your competition for that position will be developers with both degrees and great projects. Many of them will have internships, or other prior work experience. That's the crowd you need to stand out in

[rough tree]

Yeah you are 100% Right

[rare forum]

guys how to make cogs in discord.py
who knows to make cogs? if u know how to make cogs, then DM me

[summer roost]

This channel's topic is jobs and careers. See #❓｜how-to-get-help or #discord-bots instead.

[signal crane]

What exactly do they do in coding job... Can someone explain with example... I'm feeling scared and overwhelmed

[river badge]

code

[signal crane]

I mean can u explain with example

[river badge]

Depends on the type of job you have. I think the biggest applications of pythons are webserver backends and data science/ML

You could also be working on some desktop application. Each day you usually pick a task or get one assigned and then there is the occasional meeting and review, which is what my job looks like right now.

[rough tree]

Bro meet this guy he got job without collage degree
https://youtu.be/c810QTD4XB8

What do you think of this guy 🤔

[buoyant seal]

It needs part 2: surviving trial period too (first three months). That would be kind of real impossible 😏

[buoyant seal]

Anyway, it is wonder of level close to for 1 out of 10000 applicants may be will happen.
Probably in most often cases nepotism is the option for better chance 🙂

[near ocean]

Ignore anything youtubers say, no matter how true you think it is

[balmy mural]

Video literally boils down to: do a project that showcases your skills in technologies the company uses. People who go through university also do that, so you won't stand out just because of the one project

[velvet fox]

Will software engineers be hired this year?
I see multiple rounds of firing

[zealous path]

At big multicorporations? Doubt they’ll hire.
At your standard mid-big business? Yes, they’ll keep doing what they’ve been doing so far

[velvet fox]

go and check the projects he has done... college grads do much more than this as they learn lot of tech concepts by then... Such things should not be encouraged IMO. They tend to lose out on some real technical stuff that they need to know

[zealous path]

People focus too much about these layoffs forgetting it’s mostly FAANG only that this is affecting and there is a whole world outside that tiny bubble

[near ocean]

My company has been hiring people since i joined mid last year

[velvet fox]

can you name the companies

I'm not in the fomo of entering into faang companies

[near ocean]

Google is a thing you know

[zealous path]

Homie, literally go onto ANY job board and see how many software dev openings there are

[velvet fox]

you are in google?

[near ocean]

Use google

[velvet fox]

dude i dont find any for entry level that's why i asked here

[zealous path]

Where do you live?
Just country-city/state is enough

[chrome summit]

Entry level done through colleges normally

[zealous path]

In the US maybe

[chrome summit]

I can only speak to US

[velvet fox]

Same through college also it's frozen rn

I'm okay for remote, wfh, relocate

[zealous path]

Then which country? I’m guessing US

[velvet fox]

yeah

[vestal kettle]

There are only senior positions in my area

[velvet fox]

exactlyy

[velvet fox]

which company?

[zealous path]

Now the question is what exactly you want to do

[true harness]

mariosis is in the ookay

[velvet fox]

I'm in MI with masters in cs

so dev/data science wud do good

[chrome summit]

I’ve never seen entry level data science. Dev will be more common.

[velvet fox]

dev is okayy, amazon is hiring?

[chrome summit]

Companies always hire…just because they layoff doesn’t mean they are not hiring….

[zealous path]

Yeah, but in Detroit…

[velvet fox]

hmm.. okk

College Student
Graduate date Spring 2024 or later

im grad at 2023, what to do?

[true harness]

that looks like an internship. you're not qualified

[velvet fox]

yeahh

[near ocean]

You want to know where I work? Take me out to dinner first, damn

[near ocean]

Didnt amazon just announce another 9k layoffs

[delicate bane]

yes i posted a screenshot in one of the OTs yesterday

[near ocean]

There goes the AWS dream (for now anyway)

[marsh wind]

it's curios how they at the same time hire and layoff. Our colleague (Data Scientist) was poached (if you can use that term here lol) by Amazon and started like 3 weeks ago. Is it the kind of cost cutting where they hire people on lower salaries than those they layoff? Otherwise feels strange to hire and layoff same types of profiles

[delicate bane]

most likely

[coral vine]

I got contacted yesterday for an interview but they texted me first and I have texting silenced entirely on my phone. O.o didn’t check till now. I guess for a less formal company but this one is in LA hybrid remote. I shall see them in the flesh! If I get the job. xD

[hearty island]

yo guys guess what

my interview with the senior vice president of marketing is on for next friday

i am big hype

[true harness]

sheesh

[hearty island]

time to be all professional and brag about my project management skills that i don’t have yet

[coral vine]

Cool what role?

[hearty island]

project management intern

[coral vine]

You seem to have the right mindset

[hearty island]

yeah i have an internship for project management right now, but it’s not really all that great for me they don’t give me much to do 😦 and i want something that helps me bolster my resume more

[coral vine]

Something like a start up to manage? xD

[hearty island]

no just a company where more goes on really and more responsibility is placed

i’ve been at my current company for around 7 months and if it’s not getting better now it probably never will

[coral vine]

That’s a long internship

[hearty island]

i know it was originally from august to january but then they decided to extend it… no idea why

it’s not like i provide anything incredible or that they give me the chance to do anything

i’m just trying to think of my career

not to mention i also have the centene internship incoming too so having a lot of options is nice

[long locust]

Please let me know if this falls under help or not. Im trying to find a good place to learn python but every single site i went to years ago are now pay walled. before forking over money which solution would be best for raspberry pi project learning? I am a sys admin and networking guy so python wont be for my job just to trying to get started on a home project. codeacedemy and even datacamp are all pay walled after the first 30 minutes into the beginner course.

[honest goblet]

hi guys was wondering if anyone would be free to check out my CV if i posted it here

just hide my contacts and University and changed my name

I am unsure about the bottom bit but other than that is this ok?

[true harness]

experience means work experience. your entries don't seem to be that
do you have any personal projects? they have more weight than courses
2 column formats tend to be poorly parsed
compress your skills into fewer words and put multiple on the same line
get rid of the summary

[hearty island]

idk if this is ATS friendly

[honest goblet]

whats that

[true harness]

applicant tracking system. it parses resumes

[honest goblet]

skills then?

I have personal projects which ive linked my Github in the contacts section
i just took inspiration from a suggestion last time i was here with the 2 column thing
so dont have too many bullet points for skills and combine some?
every British CV ive seen has a summary should i still remove it?

thanks

[honest goblet]

so should i stick to my old format of single column with sections seperated by line breaks? but change the body and remove the "work experience"

[true harness]

people won't go to your GitHub on an initial screen, they need to be on your resume with bullets if you want people to see them

¯_(ツ)_/¯. I wouldn't recommend it

yes, I would divide it into languages, technologies, then have them each of those categories on one line

I'm not too familiar with uk ( @near ocean come hither), but my impression is that they're just as useless

[true harness]

I would say so. the entries under experience seem good, but they're not work experience

[honest goblet]

hmmmm well back to the drawing board

[true harness]

the contents seem ok, just the layout and wording needs work

[coral vine]

Have any of you used pramp.com? I really want to do it regularly but feel shy o.o what happens if:

• they are shy
• you are shy
• both shy
• you just don’t know how to solve

O.o I’ve done pair programming but it’s different because it’s not formal like pramp

[honest goblet]

brb

[honest goblet]

what is that

[dreamy spade]

Apparently, even senior developers are getting laid off from their jobs for months. I thought newly graduates were the ones struggling to bust themselves inside the tech industry.

Are seniors developers working at non-tech jobs in the mean time? And do you advise graduates to do the same?

[near ocean]

I mean... I do but I'm a nosey bastard
But yea its better to have short descriptions of your projects and links

As for tech, short section a la jake's resume is fine

[marble sand]

Does anybody have methods for getting useful error messages on job rejections? this yes/no/null business is not helping

[true harness]

you could email and ask, but I wouldn't be too hopeful. they have no reason to give you a reason, and many reasons not to

[honest goblet]

what do you think of the one i just posted?

[marble sand]

yeah, that's my understanding as well :/ :face desk:

[true harness]

you still get some feedback at least

[honest goblet]

is it over for me 😭

[true harness]

no

[marble sand]

I'm trying to decide if it's better or worse than javascript, I think worse, while both will fail silently often, at least when javascript fails loudly it usually gives a line number somewhere you can read

[honest goblet]

How would I include personal projects though? "I am currently working on xyz" ?

[true harness]

look up templates. a lot of people like "Jake's resume"

[honest goblet]

ah hes got a projects section wow

ok so technical skills at the bottom, remove some sections and replace them with personal projects and add university skills and experience at the top?

[dreamy spade]

Anyone?

[true harness]

it depends on how much work experience you have. for now just work on filling the content. the order is less important

[honest goblet]

i havent any work experience because i cant do interviews so i dont have a job 😦

[dreamy spade]

My resume gets downloaded a dozen times but I get no call backs for interviews.

[leaden jasper]

It depends on how much of a safety net they have, how long they've been out of work, etc.

[true harness]

well you won't have that section then

[honest goblet]

yeah i guess haha

[dreamy spade]

Have you heard of or seen developers who got laid off from their job work at a non-tech job until they found developer work again?

[leaden jasper]

not personally, no. The tech/dev friends I have were able to find a new job within a month

[true harness]

if you need money, working at a fast food place or something is a reasonable option for the resume. it shows you can show up and do your job, and improves soft skills

[honest goblet]

I tried applying for cashier jobs and got rejected 🤡

[true harness]

I believe that was common after the dot com crash, but the economy is not that bad currently

[honest goblet]

i dont need money right now, i just want to enter this industry because i enjoy it and will be well paid

[dreamy spade]

dot com crash. I need to look into that. Sounds interesting.

[true harness]

it was a sad time, reportedly

[leaden jasper]

It was bad

[hearty island]

so do you guys think i should do the interview? my mom said it’s a waste of time

[near ocean]

Dont feel bad, i know people with multiple degrees that got denied from Costa coffee and tesco

[honest goblet]

i just feel bad cuz all my friends were able to land a graduate job within a month of finishing uni

[true harness]

ask them what they did different

[hearty island]

i don’t know if it’s a waste of time i think interviewing is a good skill to have and to practice

[near ocean]

It is, if you got nothing else may as well practice

[hearty island]

then i’ll do it 😤

[true harness]

are you expecting a job out of it?

[hearty island]

an internship maybe

[honest goblet]

i dont think i can speak properly my entire life ive been a loner so i am not good at speaking (which is funny because public speaking is easy for me)

[true harness]

do mock interviews. I'm much the same way, and they helped me a lot

[honest goblet]

with who

[true harness]

your mom? your friends?

[honest goblet]

but what would my parents know about interviewing?

my friends are busy but i can ask them

[near ocean]

Questions can be pretty standard
Ask your parents to ask you about troubles with classmates at school, some time you struggled with a project and how you overcame it, etc

[true harness]

it's not that hard. just ask them to ask you questions from Google. record your responses

[spark cobalt]

It's helped me a lot to go to dev meetups and conferences to learn how professionals discuss things with one another.

[true harness]

I don't see why not. good practice and a chance at internship

[honest goblet]

where do yo ufind those

[spark cobalt]

Meetup.com Eventbrite

[coral vine]

A website where you can practice interviewing code challenges with one another

[pastel thunder]

are there no weekend in startups? assume it has 11 employee

and 4 to 5 years old

[deft herald]

That's a question you'd have to ask the employees there

[pastel thunder]

i am afraid they are the one to take my next interview

[deft herald]

Great. So come prepared with your questions. Keep in mind that an interview really needs to go both ways!

[spark cobalt]

Business doesn't stop on weekends. So there'll typically be some engineers working on weekends at any company. But that typically pertains to a small minority at the top of the chain.

[pastel thunder]

ok, i am gonna destroy them.

[deft herald]

good

[honest goblet]

Joined

[spark cobalt]

Have some fun!

At the beginning you might just be spending time listening rather than giving inputs, but once you have a grasp with what they talk about and how they do it, then start seeing what you can do yourself. Assess what gave good responses and what didn't.

[plain pecan]

I have project work, the professor asks us to write a python code using Tkinter to build an interface about linux command like useradd. So I want to create a new user with a password and add it to /etc files then show a message for the user telling him if his account was added or no, how should I do that?

[honest goblet]

Theres bound to be some in London

[spark cobalt]

Yep. Might also wanna look into tech conferences. There's definitely many happening in London

Probably just wanna Google for them

[near ocean]

If you find some let me know
Not sure if i wanna socialize with londoners tho

[honest goblet]

Are you in london

[near ocean]

Currently yes

[pastel thunder]

also, why do i think every other startup is a stupid idea, and how on earth do they get customer, who is wasting money on them

[true harness]

people with a lot of money to waste

[honest goblet]

Unlucky (same)

[pastel thunder]

have you also had this, thought, lmao

[near ocean]

"entrepreneurs" but yes

[true harness]

well think about it. if you're a billionaire, and you invest a million dollars into 100 companies with even a 1% chance of turning into a billion dollar company, then you're probably getting a profit

[honest goblet]

Quick maffs

[pastel thunder]

money buys money, lmao

[spark cobalt]

Before recent year, getting funding was easy because of low interest rates, cash was cheap.

[jagged thistle]

hey I want to learn NLP like I have interest in building AI can anyone suggest me any course or roadmap for it like I know Python and I want to jump into this thing but don't know where to start

[pastel thunder]

do you know simple machine learning? if NO then start DL, ML, basics first.

[pastel thunder]

i see.

[hearty island]

damn, they rescheduled my interview on april 11th during school

[jagged thistle]

I know the basic knowledge like how it works but don't have practical knowledge like how to implement that in code can you suggest me some tutorials

[pastel thunder]

machine learning mastery.com OR youtube

[jagged thistle]

thanks

[coral vine]

Really? o,o how’s this work?

[spark cobalt]

Welcome to venture capitalism

[coral vine]

Does that truly work? I would have to start reading about this then

[true harness]

well if they make a billion dollars, they make 900 million in profit

[jagged thistle]

I know java because before I was doing android development but it was not interesting so I am switching to NLP

[coral vine]

Isn’t it the same as buying 100 lottery tickets? And the odds of investing in a potential future billion dollar company is .0001% chance? Isn’t profit very unlikely?

[near ocean]

The point is to invest where you see potential, its less random than buying a lottery ticket

Just be careful not to get shafted a la Theranos

[smoky quest]

on the java side, you could look at:

• https://djl.ai/
• https://haifengl.github.io/
• https://pytorch.org/
• https://stanfordnlp.github.io
• https://opennlp.apache.org/

But java is more used on the inference side. Python remains the more popular one for building models and thus would be great to learn for your career

[jagged thistle]

That's why I'm switching to python

[smoky quest]

yeah, and for specific resources, you may want to peruse in #data-science-and-ml

[jagged thistle]

ok

[coral vine]

Which aspect makes it less random in order for it to be able to become a billion dollar company?

Even if there’s potential, huge businesses can always buy out smaller ones when they notice those smaller businesses potential to take over so in the end

The way I see it, is it’s still pretty random if trying to invest in a potential bill dollar company. I don’t think it would even get the chance to reach a billion because it will get bought out before it happens

[spark cobalt]

Being bought out is one of the very common goals in making a startup.

[true harness]

getting bought out still means you get paid

[spark cobalt]

Some aspects include obviously, the product idea, the people behind it (their career, their education, etc.), etc.

[smoky quest]

investors get paid*
engineers, it depends

[true harness]

sure, yeah

[near ocean]

Ideally you would be knowledgeable about X industry the startup is trying to break into, can evaluate financial statements and just overall be a wise investor, its not randomly throwing money away hoping it gives profit

[summer roost]

Yeah, this is the most common success case for a startup.

[spark cobalt]

Stocks! Woo!

[smoky quest]

VCs have benchmarks, have a network, do some research, vet the founders, etc.
Sure, there are some VCs who yolo, but they won't last long

[coral vine]

So at the end of the day, regardless of what the company is composed of, it can become a bill dollar company only if it contains a network of other billion dollar companies which “feel” like letting that new company become a billion dollar company

[smoky quest]

That's phrased too passively.
Let's say that if you are connected and supported by other successful people, you have a lot more chances to succeed. But having opportunities does not equal to having it happen. You still have to work your butt off

[delicate bane]

typically investors get priority first right

[smoky quest]

Investors have priority and they may also have multipliers.

For instance, I remember a story about a startup who raised 300 millions$ and sold at 600 millions$.
But the investors had a 2X preference, which means they get first 2X their investment prior to dividing the rest according to the ownerhip. So they got 600 millions$ back and the employees got nothing.
I also have another story where a startup raised 1 billion$ but sold at 1billion$. The employees got nothing out of it.

That said, the acquirer will always try to give something interesting enough so that the employees stick around.

[delicate bane]

ahhhh i think pragmatic wrote about that first story. wild.

[smoky quest]

And to be honest, it depends on how nice are the founders and how much they care about their employees. Because in truth, they can structure it in any way they want with the acquirer

[delicate bane]

and the employees may never know...

[ivory sluice]

when you say "startup raised $1B" does that mean they have $1B in debt? or is this different lingo in the vc world

is that $1B what will be paid to the investors first when the company is sold?

[smoky quest]

it means they got 1B$ in the bank

[summer roost]

They mostly raise money by selling off fractional ownership

[smoky quest]

there are clauses that say they recoup X times their investments in the case of a liquidity event. That X would generally be 1, but depending on the situation, it may not be at the advantage of the startup

[ivory sluice]

is it generally expected that employees with 0 equity would get a transactional payout when the company is acquired?

bc that would surprise me

[dreamy shadow]

That depends on what the purchasing company does. Generally you keep your job, or get laid off as the company gets stripped for parts

Stock options in a non-IPO company is basically pretend money afaik.

[ivory sluice]

so referring to above, the phrasing of "investors get priority" is surprising to me because....... who else would have a claim at all lol

[dreamy shadow]

It could be the case if there's some contract in place for investors.

[smoky quest]

if you have 0 equity, you should not expect much. But without any incentive to stay at the new company, why would you then stay ?

[dreamy shadow]

Some companies also offer the option to purchase equity. Not pure equity. Edit: This was the case for me, hence why I state it's more so of "pretend money".

[ivory sluice]

so you're describing a liquidity event like n years after an acquisition

not like, a startup that you joined that gets sold for the first time

[smoky quest]

no,liquidity event is after the investment, be it ipo or acquisition or otherwise

[ivory sluice]

right

so why would an employee that gets hired by a startup, have any expectation to make an extra buck during an IPO or acquisition if they have no equity or stock.. right?

[smoky quest]

Because the equity vests over time. They can then exercise them.
Plus during an acquisition, it may accelerate as part of it

[coral vine]

I mean there’s no such thing as a company that got to become 1 billion dollars unless it had at minimum 1 billionaire within its network right? So even with working their butts off, if there’s not at least one billionaire on board then it’ll never happen, because it will always be prevented by other competitors

[ivory sluice]

"if they have no equity or stock" though

or is it basically a given that if you're at a startup you have equity, stock, or options in your comp

[smoky quest]

Only siths deal in absolute. There are many companies worth 1 billion dollars that started without help. But it does not mean they are the most frequent

[smoky quest]

You don't join a startup without getting equity, unless you don't value it or would be more like a contractor

[ivory sluice]

ic. even junior entry level?

[smoky quest]

👏 everyone 👏 gets 👏 equity 👏

[true harness]

👏 demonstrated 👏 equity👏

[ivory sluice]

lol are you sure??? not just in the silicon valley tech world?

[smoky quest]

Not to the same amount, but they do get some. It's a great tool for retention and to make employees care about the company

[smoky quest]

I would argue the company is not a tech company if they don't provide equity

[coral vine]

But in order for it to eventually reach a billion, a billionaire had to “feel” like supporting it

[smoky quest]

Not really

[smoky quest]

Think about it like having rich parents.
A rich parent will give you more opportunities in the way they will be able to afford a private tutor, healthy food, etc. They give more opportunities. But they won't pass the exams for you, you would still have to pass the exam yourself. And some rich kids do squander these opportunities.

[true harness]

though there was that 'varsity blues' scandal...

[dreamy shadow]

There's that hackerrank quote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15659076

notacoward

Entrepreneurship is like one of those carnival games where you throw darts or something.Middle class kids can afford one throw. Most miss. A few hit the target and get a small prize. A very few hit the center bullseye and get a bigger prize. Rags to riches! The American Dream lives on.Rich kids can afford many throws. If they want to, they can t...

Hacker News · Nov 9, 2017, 1:50 AM

[smoky quest]

let's not be too pedantic at the cost of the main point

[coral vine]

I mean if you work really hard, and in terms of 1 billion dollars. The rules of the game change entirely. You need protection. Because others will take you out. The amount of protection would need to be at minimum 1 billion in order to one day become a billion

[honest goblet]

is this slightly better?

[smoky quest]

this is not how it works. No one is going to kneecap you or ask you for protection money

[strange pumice]

i want to apply for ai internship

[dreamy shadow]

Instead of "Automated experimental data analysis using Python..."
Try something like:
"Reduced lab work time by X% by automating experimental data analysis through Python. "
Try to show impact of your work.
e.g What are the "valuable insights" from large datasets? How large are the 'large' datasets?

[dreamy shadow]

That's what you think.

[honest goblet]

thanks ill attempt to change it now

any other tips?

[dreamy shadow]

Try to apply that to your projects as well. Generally, companies don't care what you actually did but what value it brings to the table.

[honest goblet]

i think the language one reflects it but the others dont cuz theyre quite general isnt it

[dreamy shadow]

Yes, they are too generic.

[honest goblet]

thanks ill brb

[true harness]

where did your skills section go

[honest goblet]

I had no space 😭 (i ate it)

like i think the middle section might be a bit too big. i am thinking of combining some of the subheadings so i have some space for the skills section.

[dreamy shadow]

Your white space at it lol

[true harness]

your first 3 "IDK WHAT TO CALL IT"s can probably just be turned into skills or projects.
also condense white space between entries, there's way too much

[honest goblet]

they were from my university is it ok to put into my projects section

[true harness]

school projects are fine

[honest goblet]

sure ill be back in a bit

[coral vine]

The interview I thought was gona happen ended up being a marine corp recruiter who happened to have my number somehow o.o

But just now I checked linkedin and I got contacted for a software engineer role that’s like 5 miles from my house ! But dang honestly I’m getting fatigued by my own excitement o.o but this one is fully on-site role

[ivory sluice]

a 5 mile commute is fantastic ngl

[coral vine]

My moms shop is in the same city! Lol

[sand patio]

Hi - so, I'm in high school right now, and I've been playing with the idea of, after doing my undergrads, going for a graduates (both in computer science, or a related field). Thing is, I'm not sure I want to do something like a PhD, would a masters be more reasonable/worth it at all?

A few people I've talked to (working adults) have said that, if I do go for a graduates, I should shell out for a more prestigious school, even if I may not have gotten into one of that scale for an undergrads, due to the connections I can get out of it

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
This is not a channel for posting job ads or recruiting

[delicate bane]

prestigious like an ivy league school or?

[sand patio]

ideally, yes

[delicate bane]

hmm....wait are you in the states?

[elder turtle]

Hello! I'm so sorry about that. I didn't see a introduction spot. Do you want me to delete it and put it to the correct place?

[sand patio]

when applying for a graduates, I presume they'd look more at how you did in the school you went to for your undergrads - correct? as opposed to like, your high school

[smoky quest]

sure. np

[elder turtle]

Awesome. I'm more than happy to correct that. Where should I post that into?

[smoky quest]

indeed.

[delicate bane]

yeah you could go a local state university for undergrad then somewhere else for grad yeah

[smoky quest]

there is no recruiting on this server

[delicate bane]

theyll look at your GPA and most likely research/work exp (if you have any)

[elder turtle]

Oh my .... face palm
Sorry about that.

[dreamy spade]

My resume got downloaded a dozen times but I get no calls for an interview 😭

[sand patio]

in all honesty, I do well in school, but probably not well enough for an ivy or similar. (that's not to say I won't try for one, but it'll be something like a reach choice). that's why, while I still want to go for a decent school in my undergrads, if I do decide to go for a graduates, I'd want an ivy or similar.

[elder turtle]

It's deleted. Does anyone have suggestions for where I could go to promote myself or get noticed from potential companies?

[sand patio]

well, back to my original question - is it worth it? Going to a grad school, but going for a masters rather than a longer program, like a PhD.

[elder turtle]

That sounds rough bud. I know the feels

[true harness]

if you're not sure you want a PhD, you really don't want one

[sand patio]

right, I don't want one :p in that case, then, is it worth going for a masters?

[dreamy spade]

Why download resumes if you’re not going to call to schedule an interview?

[true harness]

you got filtered out. you're not entitled to being interviewed

[true harness]

it depends on your goals, and of course your financial situation, but generally yes

[sand patio]

I see, thanks!

[true harness]

like, for AI type careers, my understanding is that it's the bare minimum requirement for many jobs

[coral vine]

Suiting username

[smoky quest]

What problem are you trying to solve? Do you get calls back when applying? If not, you could post an anonymized version of your resume for feedback

[smoky quest]

If you have the opportunity, I would recommend it

[sand patio]

alright, fair enough. thanks

[smoky quest]

I also remember writing some recommendation letters for previous interns wanting to go to a specific school. Not sure if they were being nice, but they said it helped. You could look at that as well to help increase your chances

[elder turtle]

That's a great idea. I was more asking about networking. Seeing if anyone had any suggestions for great places to network to try and get job opportunities that way.

[sand patio]

hmm, look at getting recommendation letters?

what years would you typically go for internships as an undergrad?

[smoky quest]

Going to (virtual) meetups can help

[smoky quest]

yeah, why not?

[sand patio]

sure, I can try that

[elder turtle]

Cool. Thank you for the help. I'll see what meet ups I can find

[true harness]

all years

[sand patio]

oop, alright

[true harness]

a lot (probably all) of places require them for admission

[sand patio]

I see

[coral vine]

Last week I did some reading about how to contact past employer/professor for job assistance for software engineer role. There were 3 options: referral, letter of recommendation, reference. I wasn’t sure if these make a difference or which to ask for :/

I was thinking I should ask for a letter of recommendation and ask if I can use them as a reference. But do you think this makes a difference if I want a swe job ? Or these things are more for school-based reasons. I was thinking maybe for swe role, they don’t care for these things

[true harness]

i've never heard of rec letters be useful for anything other than academia. referrals are by far the most useful.

[delicate bane]

masters >>

but im biased

[smoky quest]

the most used one for jobs are referrals (they get you in) and references (they get a call from the hiring manager if they want to make an offer)

[delicate bane]

i think if you arent going into academia/research, then i dont think a phd would be the right path but thats my take

[forest jungle]

^ While I cannot speak to that personally, that's the advice I recieved from literally every person I spoke to in both the field and academia. Even my Master's was kind of EEEEEEEEEH depending on who I spoke to.

[coral vine]

thanks all. I was going to ask my references last week but realized that its not like the old days anymore where we passed by each other at school or at work. there is a totally formal way to go about it now, especially since i lost touch for many years Dx so I'm stalling a bit.

I might get lucky with this job by my house. I didn't apply for it but it is a full time entry-level swe role. i think maybe they reached out because i live so close and also 6 people at my college work there. only 60 people applied to it on linkedin! says they put it up 1 week ago. there is hope yay

[strange pumice]

sophmore

junior

[true harness]

freshman

there's no reason to wait until sophomore year. even if you don't get an internship, you get experience interviewing (assuming you get any), applying, polishing your resume, etc

[forest jungle]

"When should I go for internships" -> "Yes."

[true harness]

damn he really unthumbsupped

[hearty island]

yeah same i applied for internships freshman year too

[true harness]

actually, you might not apply for internships as a senior, so i was wrong there. you would be applying for new grad roles

[sand patio]

I see

sounds exciting, now I just need to get into college

[forest jungle]

Do you actually know of a good way to filter for new grad roles? I'm still getting a ton of "8 Years Experience Required" even when I try searching for something like python engineer new grad with entry level tags specifically

[sand patio]

ah man, I wonder if I fucked my GPA with that one C I got

[true harness]

no idea. never tried. i would try looking for "entry level" rather than "new grad"

[near ocean]

Country? In the UK you can look for "graduate scheme"

[strange pumice]

whats the best way to beef ur resume

[true harness]

one C is not enough to make that much of a difference. but you will be competing will people with all As, so it does make a difference

[forest jungle]

Internships and portfolio projects.

[strange pumice]

you can get it up no proelemn

[sand patio]

I have pretty good grades in the class (math, all A's and B's previously) - I just sort of let it fall this quarter

[strange pumice]

a company i applied for persisted i give portfolio projects,

[true harness]

internships are the biggest. other than that, personal projects and unrelated work experience are both huge pluses

[sand patio]

I see

[forest jungle]

Yes, I've been doing that, I'm looking for alternatives because I've been at this for like eight months now without luck. If nothing else I need to try something different just to keep from going insane.

[strange pumice]

im currently in an internship,

[true harness]

without luck how? is it your resume or your interviewing skills?

[sand patio]

well, I've still got junior year, if I get straight A's for the rest of my math classes, colleges should be happy to see improvement, yeah?

[strange pumice]

im in my junior year my gpa is 3.2ish i need to get it ack to 3.7 at least before i graduate

[forest jungle]

My resume's been cleared by both this and the cs resume/career subreddit, I just haven't been getting any calls.

[sand patio]

my "reasonable" choice is Virginia Tech

[true harness]

you can always send it again

[forest jungle]

Well, strictly speaking I keep getting calls from guys wanting me to work IT in major metro areas for minimum wage because I have a section about "Support Technician II"

And I have, multiple times, no one has anything left to add/recommend except telling me what I should have done while I was in college.

Which, I'm not going to lie, is pretty bloody infuriating to have people prattle off a list of "Well why didn't you get more internships" and "why didn't you go to a better university" when I ask for opinions.

Hence, I've stopped asking.

[true harness]

oh, I'm sorry you had that experience. it's not usually like that here from what I've seen. i would highly recommend still asking for a review on it

[strange pumice]

going to better university imo becomes useless

if u have the experience, and th eprojects

also look for working for startups

[forest jungle]

Any way to filter for them specifically?

[strange pumice]

idk tbh

[true harness]

what's your reasoning for that?

[strange pumice]

that should be the last resort , at least working for a tech start uup company does count towards experience

[true harness]

start ups aren't easier to get into

[dreamy shadow]

It is if your dad's one of the investors.

[near ocean]

Probably be underpaid in a startup

[smoky quest]

not reallynecessarily

[dreamy shadow]

Start up: Learn more, paid less vs large company: learn nothing, paid more

[forest jungle]

I'm going to be honest. At this point? I'd be happy to be underpaid provided it wasn't ridiculously so if it meant I was employed. I can always move elsewhere in a year or two once I have a buffed out resume.

Also I've seen a fair number of startups actually offering more, though I think that's because something something better talent something something

[true harness]

the learning part is probably more of a "what you make of it" situation

[strange pumice]

yeah

[spark cobalt]

It kind of depends. If you're building next gen technology, then yeah earlier phase of startup would be a small team of extremely bright minds. On the other hand startups with their base infrastructure established would start finding more return in distinguishing senior and more junior work.

Maybe mid size company is the sweet spot for getting junior roles

[true harness]

why does that make it easier to get into compared to well established companies?

[spark cobalt]

It's less competitive.

[smoky quest]

There is less room for juniors in that scenario

[spark cobalt]

Well I think it's also just some of these roles are not lucrative and not worth for many people. The first offer I got I declined for this reason.

[smoky quest]

But to be noted that startups go from jokers to very serious/successful people. So that leaves a pretty broad set of scenario

[true harness]

how? simply because it's less known?

[spark cobalt]

My first offer I got was 40k in North Dakota, that shit was just a straight nope. I don't see people competing for this role more than big tech.

[dreamy shadow]

Maybe if your start up is local.

[spark cobalt]

Less benefits, less pay, this too, less advertising of roles, etc.

[true harness]

gotcha. that's understandable

[spark cobalt]

I mean, when you apply for 4000 jobs, your resume gets into a lot of these cracks Mostly talking from personal experience

[coral vine]

how many scams did you encounter within 4000 apps? o.o

[spark cobalt]

Sure, but I think in raw numbers of companies, there would be more early phases than big tech, no?

[spark cobalt]

Mostly just recruiting firms which I've interviewed at like 3-4. Those "oh the story gets deeper" people, which after those 3-4 I completely ignored these consulting/recruiting/staffing agencies type things. 2 I got denied ultimately for lack of degree.

[smoky quest]

Let's say you have budget for growing from 3 people to 5 people. Would you trust a brand new kid for a brand new product and knowing when and where to take shortcut? Or how to do things without being babysit?

[spark cobalt]

Oh that's really early phase. Though the offer I did get was me being the 5th engineer.

[spark cobalt]

I see what you mean. But these startups wouldn't be in the position to hire juniors, but that isn't to distract that more established ones are.

[true harness]

this one company I know of hired an intern as their 4th employee

[spark cobalt]

I think this company was okay with it, because one of the phases of interview was a take home project. And I made an entire feature they were thinking of implementing in the future in a week.

Was able to negotiate up to 55k but the manager just seemed like such a bitch and just location and everything was not it.

[forest jungle]

That sounds suspiciously like a "We want someone with terrible work-life balance" job

[smoky quest]

Right. And the more established, the less critical the experience becomes

[forest jungle]

This is my thought. The larger a company is, the more they can afford to take the risk/eat the upfront cost.

[spark cobalt]

Yep. But the more established they get, the more competitive the role is.

[strange pumice]

how does seniors differ from juniors

[smoky quest]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/131XZCEb8LoXqy79WWrhCX4sBnGhCM1nAIz4feFZJsEo/edit#gid=0 has some nice details

[spark cobalt]

Oo that's a nice sheet

[dreamy shadow]

5 Years of Experience

[forest jungle]

I had a chuckle today. I saw a senior position that wanted 5 years of experience for like $200k directly below a junior position that wanted 8 years of experience for $50k

[coral vine]

what would you do differently if you could do the 4000 job apps again? with the same constraints of being degree-less?

[spark cobalt]

Network more. Automate some parts of my job applying.

Those hundreds of workday applications would've been so much better if I used like the 50 bots out there to fill it out for you

Though I think out of everything, way before the job hunting could've been optimized heavily. I was learning almost aimlessly for an entire year, no clear deadlines or goals. Really could've done a lot in that year...

[dreamy shadow]

I wonder if you could get a degree with the same time it takes to apply to 4,000 job applications manually

[spark cobalt]

It took 3-4 months to do it, so the answer is no

[dreamy shadow]

I guess I apply too slowly

[coral vine]

i just use the indeed easy apply button, and cry when i find out a cool job requires more than that Dx

[spark cobalt]

That's just about 30 applications a day, which takes 2 hours max for me. Many are in 1-1.5 range

[spark cobalt]

Learning how to use Tab in Forms is amazing

[dreamy shadow]

Indeed easy apply and linkedin easy apply is a great way for the company to never look at it lmao

[true harness]

pretty sure it all goes to the same place

[coral vine]

no they look at it

[dreamy shadow]

[coral vine]

there was even one place that asked me to finish filling out my information because i filled out minimum

[true harness]

finding a job app that doesn't let me autofill information is almost an instant dealbreaker. i only soldier on if the job post seems interesting

[dreamy shadow]

Tab in Forms is a application? or what. I assuming it's some auto fill, but can't seem to find that exact phasing.

[spark cobalt]

LinkedIn does filtering on their side as well.