career-advice

[dreamy shadow]

Literally just hit 500Mbs

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy shadow]

Uh, lemme check wtf the original repo size was

[vast rapids]

thanks for ur times rmah, wilder, recursive_error,skyglow everyone else too I think I kinda got a better picture about what to fix

[dreamy shadow]

nvm, apparently have to be admin to see bitbucket repo size. smh

Wait what???? Select repo folder, show size. 380 files, 170 folders 7gbs. Go into folder, highlight all folders+files => 4.4gbs, 167files 24 folders.
Excuse me?

[sleek egret]

magic bits, baby!

[dreamy shadow]

[true harness]

why is your repo 7 gb in the first place

[dreamy shadow]

Why tf is my .git file 3GBS?

[true harness]

long history lol

[dreamy shadow]

Technically 4gbs, code is 300mb + rest in model files.

AND THEN THERE'S a 3GB hidden .git FILE

Can I like, git ignore the .git?

IS THAT A YES OR NO? LOL WTF

[near ocean]

Its an "ask in offtopics"

[dreamy shadow]

I'm a magician, managed to turned my repo from 7gb to 26gb. Done for today, dealing with this bs tomorrow.

[sleek egret]

your magic is powerful and wonderous

[gilded valley]

Global salaries come up in this channel fairly often, talent.io has a report which puts the median salary for London at 55kgbp, which is much lower than payscale says

[sleek egret]

median salaries for what sort of job?

we tried to hire a developer out of poland, he wanted $150k/yr

[smoky quest]

lot's of non-usa folks see sign dollars whenever they talk from someone in the US and will try to pull that shit

[delicate bane]

ah this is a predominantly european platform. interesting concept though

[sleek egret]

are most folks on this server really europeans?

[gilded valley]

No, there's a lot more Americans that participate in this channel. A few Europeans, and a few people from the UK (mostly specifically London)

[spark cobalt]

Murica

[gilded valley]

They hire for all dev roles, but it loses out on the top tier of companies - e.g Google isn't hiring via talent.io. The median should still be ballpark reasonable though

[sleek egret]

only thing surprising to me in those #'s is that berlin is on par with the rest of germany now

for a long time it lagged

[gilded valley]

Frankfurt is a finance hub, I'm guessing they still have an edge

[true harness]

!rule 9 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vapid jay]

!rule 7 9 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

7. Keep discussions relevant to the channel topic. Each channel's description tells you the topic.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vapid jay]

@summer roost

[deft herald]

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.
   I mean it's pretty clear...this is not a job board

[summer roost]

!tempban 903936764928983074 30d Continuing to advertise, despite multiple warnings.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @sterile lotus until <t:1677210537:f> (30 days).

[west badger]

Best python youtuber not for learning python but doing awesome projects in it??

[pine sleet]

Please don't cross post, additionally it is off topic for this channel

[west badger]

Ok sorryy

[true maple]

what are some useful library to learn that could be helpful to get a job?
for now i have learnt what i need for my personal projects

[spark cobalt]

Depends on the kind of job. A web developer would better focus on things like Django, Flask, or FastAPI while an DS/AI/ML person might focus on numpy, pandas, ML libraries (Tensorflow, PyTorch) etc.

[vapid jay]

What about ecommerce?

[frank wing]

what jobs are available if i master python

[near ocean]

You cant really master python before you get a job or spend years in open source
So dont think about mastering anything for your first job, get to a decent point in python to get a job first

Python is general purpose, pretty nuch anything is available to use python for, you'll find most jobs are in webdev, in AI/ML, automation, etc

[rapid frost]

anyone who wants to do some leetcode ?

[near ocean]

Thats not really a group activity or career related

[kindred rock]

Does grinding leetcode actually do anything?
Besides increasing one's ego.

[near ocean]

It makes you better at leetcode

[sleek egret]

I guess it would help you get better at solving similar algorithmic problems

[kindred rock]

Hm... Well... As a junior with no experience can say that even getting to the interview requires immense luck.
So...
I try to be a backend developer.
Usually they send me some task I need to complete.
And then they look at it.

[sleek egret]

it's not based on luck

too many people conflate statements like "20% of candidates get an interview" with "there's a 20% chance you'll get an interview". it's not random.

[silent delta]

hey

i have a doubt...which may be silly idk.....but what do CS scientist actually do?

[white relic]

depends what you mean by CS scientist. There really aren't many people out there with the title "computer scientist". Hardly any, actually.

[sleek egret]

mostly, they do research and teach CS

[white relic]

But that's largely true of any pure science. People who study chemistry don't, by and large, become chemists.

[sleek egret]

almost no one works as a "computer scientist" outside of academia

back in my day there was a battle in academia between "computer science" and "software engineering" in academia. but CS won out. sadly, IMO.

[delicate bane]

imagine if SE won though

[ivory night]

If this is the wrong channel lmk but I think this is right.
So I've been teaching myself python for a little over a month while also doing some research on careers in the industry and such.
I don't have any degrees or certifications so I know it'll be tough but my goal is to be a full stack developer.
My plan is to learn enough python to get a job as a junior developer.
I guess my main question is, what are junior developers expected to know? Most of the things I find on the subject are pretty vague, which makes sense as I'm sure it's extremely context sensitive.
Basically, I'm getting to the point where I feel like I need some kind of direction in my studies and I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction

[delicate bane]

i think one approach that many individuals in your situation use is to aim for frontend dev initially and you can slowly transition to fullstack dev while learning the rest of the stack/skills you would need

[austere oxide]

Anyone here with Payton skills and wanna work on a good collaboration?

[delicate bane]

react is a solid framework for this + many companies are looking for react

[ivory night]

That makes sense. Do people go front end first because it's easier or is there another reason?

[smoky quest]

You could take a look at https://roadmap.sh/ for a set of skills

[weary sage]

any difference?

[pine sleet]

<@&831776746206265384>

[dreamy shadow]

Apparently if your coworker pastes code in teams chat without using the quotes or code snippet, copying it doesn't keep the tabs. Edit: QUOTES IS A LIE

[deft herald]

Teams is so broken with that stuff

I often try to paste code and just all the indentation is lost

[dreamy shadow]

lmao, I was just about to say how using quotes works in teams but I proved myself wrong. FFS MICROSOFT.

[zealous path]

Teams has a designated format for code

Press the edit text button and then some like like <A>

[zealous path]

My dumbass didn’t see you mention code snippet

[dreamy shadow]

No worries. The code snippet is really clunky. I've been trying to use it.

For w/e reason, after adding a title, it still adds Text at the end. e.g. SQL query => SQL query Text

[zealous path]

OOF

[sleek egret]

is OOF related to OOP?

[zealous path]

Mayhaps

[dreamy shadow]

Everything's related to OOP.

[dreamy shadow]

Figured it out, if you don't specify the language, the default is text. If you specify language, it turns into:
SQL query Text => SQL query Python

[thick saffron]

if you are aiming to be a FS dev, you sure you want to learn Python?

I mean python has all the tools but php has entire machineries for backend and JS Express something between.

[smoky quest]

That's highly dependent on the location, employer and taste.
If their goal is to be a fullstack, they just need one language to get started and then can adapt to the employer

[vapid jay]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[west badger]

Is python really a career option?

[somber hazel]

hey guys In the official spring boot documentation the video and photo links are not working how to fix it i tried searching the issue on the net but it is not showing any proper result

[summer roost]

software development certainly is, and many software development jobs use Python, though few software development jobs use only Python. There may be a few more data analysis jobs that use only Python, but still - most real world jobs require you to know multiple different languages and switch between them.

[west badger]

Like tell me the langs I should learn

[summer roost]

that depends on the type of stuff you'd be working on.

[west badger]

What langs you know?

@summer roost

[summer roost]

a bunch. I can write fairly complicated programs in Python, C++, C, Java, POSIX sh, and VimL, and I occasionally need to touch stuff written in Perl, Groovy, Fortran, Awk, JavaScript, Lua... There've been a bunch of languages that I needed at one time but have largely forgotten, which I'd need to relearn if I ever needed them again. (And I swear I'll learn Rust sometime soon...)

[dreamy shadow]

I blink and it's already 11pm. I didn't even do anything today...

[thorn oar]

can relate..

[crude burrow]

if i dont have much experience in coding, should I just be looking for junior roles?

[summer roost]

as opposed to senior roles? or what?

[crude burrow]

nono just junior roles

cuz its either that or i try to apply for graduate jobs which are harder

[summer roost]

what do you mean by "graduate jobs"?

[crude burrow]

So after you graduate from university, a bunch of companies want to employ students that have just came outta graduation, so a graduate job targets a specific audience

I just dont know, cuz i dont have much experience in coding and a graduate job requires someone to have a lot more than what i have. Been trying to just learn but not confident I could land it. (I have tried applying to many and all failed)

[summer roost]

"junior jobs" and "graduate jobs" sound like the same thing to me. Programming jobs aren't usually marketed towards people who haven't graduated, with the exception of internships. The "junior level" and "just graduated level" are the same thing

[crude burrow]

tbh, that makes sense, I looked at some roles and both do seem kinda the same. That just means even applying to junior stuff I prolly wont land it xD

[crisp sphinx]

bro i think if u want you should try interships to get experience and then youll land it

[ebon summit]

which python course or bootcamp has highest employment record?

[smoky quest]

a CS degree will beat both of them.

Bootcamp/courses are highly specific and local. So there isn't any well known one used for recruitment

[ebon summit]

wonder if anyone knows the python course or bootcamp that got highest employment record without CS degree?

regardless of location

[crude moon]

I am not sure there is such a thing, but some bootcamps offer a guaranteed job at the end. Those ones tend to cost around £8k

[ebon summit]

yeah those ones seem the most legit, even CS degree doesn't offer that

[crude moon]

A degree will get you a job 100% unless you fail it badly.

[ebon summit]

hmm but no guarantee like bootcamp

[smoky quest]

nothing is ever guaranteed nor free

[crude moon]

Yes but what is the gurantee, maybe a very low paying job that youll have to work up to the same wage you would have started on if you had a degree

[smoky quest]

That said, CS degrees will definitely provide you a better career for less effort and a larger compensation

[ebon summit]

I have MBA degree, CS degree too hard sadly

[crude moon]

Too hard?

[ebon summit]

yes, I tried it and seem a lot harder than MBA degree, so I did the latter but now thinking I want to get back into it with bootcamp or courses

I could have complete it but required many hours studying

[crude moon]

Ok, as recursive_error said, youll get a better job with more money if you have a degree, some places wont even look at your cv without a degree

[smoky quest]

there is no shortcut nor magic.
Without putting efforts and hours of studying, your skills will reflect that and it will be difficult to find a job. You will have to compete hard for low paying jobs

[crude moon]

If you really want a job without a degree I would say do your own projects, maybe do projects for people on upwork or something and then try and get a job..

[ebon summit]

I think some people have it easier than others in regards to getting the same CS degree

[smoky quest]

there is no secret. Hard work pay off

[ebon summit]

like some people dont need to study to pass their CS degree, for me personally, I didn't study much and got my MBA degree no problem

[smoky quest]

But either way, you will need a plan. Job ads have 4 digit applicants for junior jobs. 99.99% of them having degrees, projects and internships. How do you plan to stand out?

[crude moon]

Doing a degree is one of the most fun times of your life, and it is interesting if you enjoy the subject, I would say dont rush to earn money, go and do the degree and you wont regret it..

[ebon summit]

Master of Business Administration

[gilded valley]

Where in the world are you?

[ebon summit]

I actually started business and now just want to code mainly as hobby but want good enough skills

to be able to do career if possible for my own business if possible

[spark cobalt]

This comes with loaded training bonds and loaded contracts that when you read the thin lines, it's nowhere near guaranteed.

[spark cobalt]

Nothing gets as legit as a CS degree.

Don't fall for their ads. There's always a 5 page long aspect of their "guaranteed job" that protects them from not having to give a shit.

The better ones with high success rates are those that filter applicants heavily to ensure the people in their course are people that can utilize their resources the best. Meaning, those that have been coding for a while

There is no, "I can go to a bootcamp and get a job right after". There's always a lot of work outside of that to make things happen.

(Not to mention it is utterly economically unviable to do what you're suggesting)

[ebon summit]

yeah not sure, in future, seems AI can complete all CS degree tasks so maybe there is be different one soon

I have done some research on "guaranteed" and seems some bootcamps you dont even pay them unless you get job

but its hard to know without data

I think main thing is be great at coding, then career will be the easy part

[spark cobalt]

AI can complete all music theory tasks, but AI making music is a completely different story.

[ebon summit]

yes will be interesting to see what companies/schools require when Ai continues

seems they will change to adapt

[near ocean]

AI is not a threat to software jobs now or in the next 10 years at least

[ebon summit]

whats interesting is AI can't even guess bot verification right or score average on IQ test but can pass CS degree questions and stuff no issue

actually AI is already replace some jobs

[near ocean]

Not software engineering jobs

[ebon summit]

some yes obviously not many but a few

[near ocean]

Not some, not any
If a chat bot can replace you then you didnt have much of a job in the first place

[ebon summit]

there is a saying actually, AI is a fun cool tool, until it takes your job

its a remix of what I learned in economics, a recession is when you hear someone lost their job, a depression is when you lose yours

[near ocean]

People so readily give up their dream careers just cause a bunch of bits wrote fizzbuzz, its incredible

[ebon summit]

I think a big factor is how good AI will be at outputting readable code

[thick saffron]

Php owns about 75% of backends still. Combined with JS backends probably 90%? idk. I dont know about locations and is it really the time to think about locations when most devs work remote. php has the most solid FS framework of any language.

[near ocean]

Remote work doesnt mean you work from anywhere
Usually you have to stay in the country/city your company is registered at for tax purposes
In the UK for example, 90% of backends is dotnet

[zealous path]

Honestly right now AI is best not as a programmer but as an assistant.
Having auto complete/suggestions in an IDE is quite nice

[vapid pilot]

is a free scholarship worth it ?

[white relic]

Worth what?

[zealous path]

Depends where from

[vapid pilot]

i can get a free scholarship to go to college

[zealous path]

What degree? guessing CS

[vapid pilot]

yes

[zealous path]

Then go for it.
I’m guessing you’re in the US so any external funding should be worth it

BUT do make sure you want to do programming not for the money but cause you enjoy it

[spark cobalt]

Aren't most scholarships free either way? Since many are intended to help underprivileged individuals...

[zealous path]

Some are partial and only cover like 50-70%

[spark cobalt]

Oh you mean like a full ride

[vapid pilot]

i have been doing CS self learning for a year now .
i am not in the US , but its a program in my country

[spark cobalt]

If money is a barrier for you to go to college, and you can get in for free, then I don't see why not. You'd generally have a higher success in your career by going to one.

[zealous path]

As long as you enjoy it and it’s from at least a half-decent collège then I would say go for it

[white relic]

What does it mean to you for a free scholarship to be "worth it"?

Or do you have to do something to get it... Or you're wondering if college is worth the time you would spend there even with the scholarship...?

[vapid pilot]

i am applying to 5 colleges .

Michigan ann arbor(US)
Penn state(US)
University of Edinburgh(UK)
University of Manchester(UK)
i didn't choose the 5th one yet

[vapid pilot]

i want it to advance my career , since i would be learning CS whether i was in college or not

[white relic]

that doesn't really address my question

also, IMO you need a fallback school

[vapid pilot]

i want it to give me an advantage and leverage in my career , if it basically does nothing it would be a waste of time

[near ocean]

All those schools are good, whats the real question here?

[gilded valley]

Manchester will be a year shorter than the others I'm assuming, which seems like a pretty big advantage

[vapid pilot]

i will apply to all 4 , and hopefully get accepted

[zealous path]

Which one has the scholarship?

[gilded valley]

What Scholarship will pay for both US and UK universities?

[zealous path]

Is it scholarship for one of them or for any you pick?

[vapid pilot]

all i have to do is get admitted to one , and i can get a scholarship for it

[gilded valley]

How? What is the scholarship?

[vapid pilot]

a scholarship is basically free college right ?
how it works where i live is

1 - apply to the college
2 - if you get accepted, show the letter to the ministry
3 - you will get a scholarship there

[gilded valley]

Very bizarre. What country?

[vapid pilot]

it also depends on the major

[white relic]

I received a scholarship for Texas residents despite not being one, so I guess it can happen. There are some odd scholarships out there.

[gilded valley]

Yes, but sponsoring degrees from any country equally when there's a 10x fee difference between different universities is just very bizarre

[zealous path]

Having talked to my partner. Manchester could be a good option, their requirements may be high but it should be a really good course

[white relic]

Maybe it's just a fixed amount and they don't care where you go.

[vapid pilot]

UCAS is just weird

[gilded valley]

All of those universities are good options

[zealous path]

True

[vapid pilot]

could you rank them ?

[white relic]

not much point.

I can probably rank them by how good they are at football (either kind)

[zealous path]

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2023/world-ranking

[white relic]

university rankings are mostly meaningless. All those schools are good, so you can make the decision based on subjective criteria like which one offers the electives or extracurricular programs you're most interested in, location, culture, stuff like that.

Or go pragmatic: pick whichever would be cheapest / accepts your transfer credits / etc.

I don't know if Manchester would really be 3 years compared to 4 for the others, but if so, that would be a factor to consider.

[gilded valley]

Scottish and American universities are typically 4y bachelors - although you can sometimes skip the first at Scottish universities - English are 3y.

[white relic]

Makes sense, but depending on where BatEnjoyer hails from, they might have to take catch-up courses, or something, which would fold into a 4 year program.
I have no idea how secondary and postsecondary education work in most places.

[gilded valley]

Yeah, it very much depends on the specifics of the course and application

[vapid pilot]

i don't know what qualifications to enter

we don't study just math .
we have math 1 , then math 2 etc

same with the other science subjects(physics, chemistry, biology )

[near ocean]

Those arent qualifications, the qualification is the degree in its entirety

[vapid pilot]

yeah under that, they want the modules/unit

[long locust]

If I wanted to hire a one off project what would be the best forum/ website for this? I know Fiverr is an option but didn't know if there was a better place for random work?

[gilded valley]

Upwork is the other big one

[spark cobalt]

Word of mouth is pretty good. Can talk to other engineers you know and see if they know someone.

[near ocean]

You should estimate the project and hire someone on fixed term on linkedin

[cloud mantle]

Hi does anybody happen to have an examples of Python being used in Cybersecurity (and specifically CTI)? I'm a relative beginner an would like to create some form of automation for my team. Maybe something to do with VirusTotal queries with Selenium? Would love some suggestions and examples if possible!

[peak torrent]

Good morning/afternoon/evening 😄

Anyone have try Black Knight internships ?

If so, how was your experience or why you didn't want to apply it? There is some downsides with their internships?

[buoyant seal]

No idea what it is, but it sounds like name was made by someone who watched Fairty Tail or Overlord anime 🙂

[peak torrent]

https://www.blackknightinc.com/careers/intern/

[peak torrent]

mannn I would love to join them lol ngl. Looks like a vacation for me ❤️

There are in North FL, any fellow Floridians in this group ?

[near ocean]

Sounds like a waste of time if it feels like a vacation i would say

[peak torrent]

mmm thanks for commenting

Dumb ass question. That means already 127 people apply for this role?

[near ocean]

Yes but i wouldnt pay attention to the number, im not convinced its not linkedin or x job board making it up

If its interesting you should apply regardless

[peak torrent]

Yeah for sure

[white relic]

"127 applicants" quite plausibly means 2 serious applicants and 125 spammers

[peak torrent]

For real?? @white relic are you a recruiter?

[prisma hollow]

Wew

[white relic]

no, it's just how the internet works

[peak torrent]

wow

[prisma hollow]

How do they differentiate between real and spam?

[white relic]

job boards have an interest in inflating the numbers so it looks like the job board works well

[peak torrent]

looks pretty unrealistic. Yeah, how they know which one is real? I mean I know there is not someone checking one by one. I guess they use a scrapper to chose those with their needs, but how I can even handle one direct email to hr?

[prisma hollow]

I get rejected by their system ;__;

[peak torrent]

mmm ok ok

[prisma hollow]

They have scrapper which gives summery but spam one will be always better than real one with high experiences and keywords

Plus online majority of job openings are from staffing and consultancies

Its fucking hard to find a job in this market ;_;

Can someone tell me hows MS in Computer Science course in NJIT?

[peak torrent]

That's why I join clubs lol. It looks easier just to handle an interview because someone recommends me

[white relic]

30 credit hours with option to do a project or a thesis, looks pretty standard for MS programs

[prisma hollow]

Clubs like?

[peak torrent]

Techs clubs

[prisma hollow]

In jersey and i think its only affordable and good choice i have

I've applied in rutgers but hopes are low for that one

[peak torrent]

if you are in school or not even school. On my city there is one python group that meet every month

[prisma hollow]

Which city?

[peak torrent]

Jacksonville fl, if you are in Jersey it should be a tons of those

[prisma hollow]

Ill check it out thanks

[peak torrent]

Yeah, I swear at least one interview will because of these groups

[peak torrent]

😆

[prisma hollow]

Will try it

[peak torrent]

Have you ever try BD?

[prisma hollow]

Whats that?

[peak torrent]

I know their main office is in Lake something on Jersey

[prisma hollow]

Im completely new here...

[peak torrent]

They have a pretty solids internships.

[prisma hollow]

Do they give internship to someone who's graduated from different country?

[peak torrent]

Yeah dude, my cousin works there as sr director and one time they hire a guy from uk with not title on it.

[prisma hollow]

Gtg thanks for suggestions

[white relic]

Internships are generally for current students

[prisma hollow]

Ill try that aswell

[peak torrent]

Should I wait until my second year?

[white relic]

Not sure how to interpret that q. Are you a freshman now or will be in the fall?

[peak torrent]

I'm freshman

[white relic]

then no, I wouldn't wait, but I wouldn't pin my hopes on getting an internship this summer either. It's getting a little late to apply even

[peak torrent]

Oh yeah, I was thinking to apply next summer.

[white relic]

After sophomore year is when internships really start to happen.

[peak torrent]

is there projects relevant on an internships? I have some Data sciences projects that I been offering to some local companies I can request for their recommendation.

then using them on my resume? or it worthless?

[white relic]

Depends on the internship whether it will matter, but as a general rule you should put projects on your résumé if you have done them and are proud of them

[peak torrent]

I need to get my step in for real. I wanna have at least a job where I can breath or focus more on my school. I work around 50 hours per week. Then, I have four classes thank god are english composition, federal goverment, astronomy, and cop1000.

[peak torrent]

Oh yeah, I would use them. I been saving money that way.

[white relic]

That's great! It shows initiative.
You can post your resume here (with personal info redacted) if you want feedback on it. Now or in the future

[peak torrent]

Thanks dude. I will do that for sure. What about certifications? Are they relevant? I been implementing AWS on my projects. If they are worth to actually show proof of how I handle those technologies I can make the effort to get it.

[near ocean]

aws/azure/gcp certs might be worth it but anything else rarely is

[white relic]

Depends on the job you're looking for. Certifications don't mean much in software roles as a rule esp if you're currently pursuing a degree and looking at internships

IT/cyber security maybe, idk

[peak torrent]

Ok thanks again.

[peak torrent]

Yeah, I would check out it. Thanks!

[west badger]

Is it better to study from w3schools or automate the boring stuff with python to learn python??

[peak torrent]

I used automate the boring stuff with python

it was good 😄 my first programming book

[white relic]

w3schools is full of subtly and not so subtly wrong things, I would not recommend using it

!resources but also this is not career related

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[pure otter]

hello

[zealous path]

Automate, the best teacher is the mistakes you make.
w3 is good when you’ve run into a problem and need a solution

That and stack overflow

[near ocean]

w3schools is trash and probably should not ever be recommended
There's entire posts detailing how and why its so bad

Had a couple interviewees recently open up w3schools to look something up during the technical parts, i think that alone would have disqualified them for me at least

[true harness]

they were allowed to look things up?

[near ocean]

Yes

[true harness]

nice

[near ocean]

To an extent anyway, theyre not really allowed to copy paste entire solutions
But looking up a function/method/formula/etc yes

Theres a CSS task and it would be torturous not to let them look up grid or flexbox

[peak torrent]

lol

[zealous path]

A programmer’s value is determined not by the exact code they wrote but the pseudo code they came up with for the problem

[near ocean]

If you cant write working code youre not getting hired anywhere, so yea its kind of important

[true harness]

I think cheems has a point though. he's saying the logical thinking is important. but I think there's definitely a line somewhere. you have to be somewhat competent at a language

[inland snow]

Hii

[buoyant seal]

seconding @near ocean here. In most of cases your value is evaluated by delivering tasks
for low grade works = writing code is a work
for work in very small companies / interacting 1 to 1, or just for middle/seniorer ranks, it also means interpreting client wishes to the best possible ways what he really requested (he could be requesting without understanding of tech knowledge)
at some point your value is increased by having experience in different systems relevant to current company
at some point your value is increased by just writing better code 😆 often enough happens that better dev can complete work both faster and with more quality.
at some point, your value can be evaluated by public projects you have...
and by gained reputation within team/company X
even soft skills can drastically increase your value in magnitues

well... i think here i make equal value to salary to be honest.

[pure otter]

hello

[zealous path]

My point is more of
If I give an issue to 2 people I’d rather have the one of:
“I think the solution would be these steps, now I think I saw a similar issue somewhere and I can adjust that code to match our specific problem”
VS
“I have memorised every issue that I have seen and it’s solution, sadly there are differences between our niche problem and the solutions I know so don’t know how to proceed”

Sorry, replied to the wrong message

@near ocean

[buoyant seal]

i think the second here will not pass trial periods at his job role 😐 during exposure to new problems

[zealous path]

Yeah, a programmer needs to think of HOW to get from A to Z, not just the fact that they’re at A and need Z.
Too often do I see “how do I make X” without even a single step being figured out

[near ocean]

Sure, not really disagreeing with that

[smoky quest]

Where do these numbers come from? They don't seem to reflect what I observe in the US/EU or some of the results from surveys

[sleek egret]

yar

[spark cobalt]

arrrggghh

[delicate bane]

its another one of those days. where im browsing the linkedin 'jobs' tab. @dreamy shadow understands that feeling.

[sleek egret]

"php owns 75% of backends" is only true if you think that websites == software development

perhaps not even then

[true kayak]

guys

[spark cobalt]

[true kayak]

what the hell do i do here

[spark cobalt]

I was looking at the LinkedIn jobs tab yesterday and I'm just glad I'm not searching

[delicate bane]

the lesson here is not to get too close to the business stakeholders since you will get burnt. its like being too close to the sun. yknow? icarus and whatnot

[spark cobalt]

Wrong place. Go ask in #1035199133436354600

[sleek egret]

Talk to recruiters. Some companies have exclusives with an agency. A large % of jobs are never even advertised.

[smoky quest]

It's a channel to discuss topics related to careers. Feel free to share or ask questions

[near ocean]

I actually sat down and did a couple triplebyte tests last night

[sleek egret]

Why did you post that screenshot?

[delicate bane]

mariosis also understands the feeling then

[sleek egret]

You solve that with the power of math

[spark cobalt]

Yep, was doing that when I was applying. But very few recruiters had jobs for someone that was in my position.

[sleek egret]

it's HS level math, you should be able to do it if you just think a little.

[sleek egret]

Oh, well that's too bad.

[spark cobalt]

Should be better once I have experience. So it's whatever.

[true kayak]

i dont know what im supposed to write so i will just ask the teacher on the next lesson i started today

[near ocean]

Anything specific about today?

[sleek egret]

Which part of it do you not understand?

[spark cobalt]

I was just like, below junior level. And the recruiters I had access to from my connections pretty much exclusively hired mid-level+. And then other recruiters that aren't from connections were a huge hit or miss.

Like 1 hit and 30 misses. Probably because I wasn't exactly investable anyways, which is reasonable.

[sleek egret]

that's not a horrible hit rate

[spark cobalt]

Was a lot of work

[delicate bane]

not necessarily today but from a meeting yesterday, its starting to look like its going to be tough this whole quarter and unnecessarily so. the business never listens until they are the verge of losing a MM dollar customer

what about yourself?

2 people who knew the most about this system left last quarter and they still didnt do anything when everything was imploding until now

[sleek egret]

just have an alcoholic beverage of your choice and chuckle at the antics

[near ocean]

Nothing specific from me either
The codebase is shit and almost as old as i am but the main driver for looking are external factors, money, gf wanting to move, etc

One thing im starting to notice from my total 1.5years exp is that companies allow clients too much slack to ask for features

Mess of a config situation to accommodate everyone's tiny non-issue requests instead of saying "fuck off we will not compromise the product for every niche"

[sleek egret]

that's not how you grow revenues

[dreamy shadow]

Read this antics as ethics, don't think much was lost there.

[delicate bane]

good reasons. i hope it goes well for you bud

[delicate bane]

not at all. still crazy over on your side this week?

[dreamy shadow]

HAHAHAHA

Got an bunch of excel analysis to pull, model to train, model to run analysis on, babysit python upgrade all basically due end of week.

[near ocean]

8mil LOC and multiple devs' sanity later i hope it was worth it corpo-man

[delicate bane]

sounds about right.

[zealous path]

I just applied to literally every job advertised as data engineer/analyst
Throw enough shit and something’ll stick

[delicate bane]

nice. where are you at now?

[zealous path]

Data Analyst at a very large corporation

[dreamy shadow]

I'm not even technically a DS job title (specifically, not paid as one). with these requests.

[delicate bane]

gotcha gotcha

[zealous path]

Making like 1.5x what I expected

[dreamy shadow]

These mf advertise them as "DATA SCIENTIST".

Also, your expectations are probably too low.

[delicate bane]

inb4 all ETL jobs

[sleek egret]

demand more?

[dreamy shadow]

The job listings I hate the most are ones from job agencies (talent recruiters?, w/e you call them). They give the most generic worthless descriptions & you know your not applying directly.

[sleek egret]

they do that to draw in as many candidates as possible. it is to their benefit. they work for their own benefit, not yours.

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, but I still hate them.

[spark cobalt]

And then they add you to their list and shotgun the most irrelevant jobs in your email everyday

[zealous path]

COMPETITIVE SALARY
I.e. competitive in how low then can make it

[spark cobalt]

Like this shit is so out of it lol. Blatantly obvious they didn't even read a line of my resume

[dreamy shadow]

"Sorry, we rejected you on the MOST RELEVANT JOB YOU APPLIED FOR. Now, here are some NON-RELEVANT JOBS NO ONE APPLIES FOR, please apply! :) "

[delicate bane]

bruh literal recruiter spamming

[dreamy shadow]

inb4 total comp: 100k

[delicate bane]

also there is a literal job posting that is based in one city in the states but then says "work in sweden" and a good chunk of the description is stuff like this

"Get a new life!"

[dreamy shadow]

lmao

[dreamy shadow]

Sounds like a sea of red flags

[delicate bane]

thats literally it on the whole description about the company. literally nothing. only a description about sweden.

[dreamy shadow]

Yes! Join our company because our country is great! (Also so that we can hold you on a visa and bully you into accepting lowest wage)

[delicate bane]

also work will probs be your life since you have left your friends and family behind with your "new life"

[sleek egret]

why would developers want to live in an egalitarian country? they are elites, after all.

[dreamy shadow]

What? You don't like to be stepped on? Don't enjoy being bullied?

[sleek egret]

I do the stepping

[zealous path]

TBF, can you really get worse than the US?
🇬🇧

[sleek egret]

worse in what way?

[dreamy shadow]

Technically, US is the best under the condition that you're not poor.

[sleek egret]

well, of larger nations, sure

there are tiny nations what are even friendlier to higher income folks

[zealous path]

I take back my statement.
At least they’re not 🇫🇷

[dreamy shadow]

Our team had 4 people leave in a conga line to another company. They have yet to fill these roles, I doubt they ever will. So ofc, I'm picking up some of the pieces.

[near ocean]

I could entertain the idea for a work visa

[delicate bane]

sweden? 👀

[zealous path]

👀

[near ocean]

Not sweden 💀
I've heard scandinavian countries really do a number on your mental with the endless winters

Im from southern europe, i dont think i could cope

[delicate bane]

im a texas boi. i def could not cope.

[zealous path]

My company has a HQ in every EU country so I can just move whenever

[spark cobalt]

I wanna move to Japan

[zealous path]

Not recommended unless it’s tourism

Work in Japan is the 9th circle of hell

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, and many other reasons too. Basically why everyone in US retires to florida

[delicate bane]

you should probs travel there first before deciding to move there for work; at least thats what i would do.

[edgy brook]

hey guys I have question: i always read online how software engineering field doesnt care about your grades and google doesnt even look at grades or many big tech companies dont look at grades. Would you guys say this is true? should i instead just focus on coding projects instead of trying to get an A+ everywhere? Currently in high school

[delicate bane]

yeah what is with those finance bro hours? 60-80+ hour weeks

[dreamy shadow]

Unless your Japanese, moving to Japan is asking for trouble lol

[spark cobalt]

I plan to stick to my current company

[delicate bane]

would your company be cool with the timezone difference?

[spark cobalt]

Yep. Lots of the company works in sync with our India branch.

[zealous path]

Huge companies won’t look at your grades because you’re expected to have an amazing portfolio. Average to small companies WILL look at your degree

[dreamy shadow]

You would be required to work at odd hours. Pretty sure our India team does that.

[spark cobalt]

And we're putting a CE person in Japan right now, so that barrier isn't something I have to go through

[delicate bane]

as long as you are not the first one. this is good advice for many things in life

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy shadow]

Pretty sure those who have would tell you not to lol

[spark cobalt]

But yeah I'm not a fan of hierarchal culture there. Though the younger generation is pretty on the same boat with that and slowly shifting Japan out of the hierarchal bs

Just need another like 2 generations and we Gucci

[dreamy shadow]

They are also really really mf racist if your not Japanese.

[spark cobalt]

Eh, I'm Chinese. I don't have it as bad as others presumably.

[dreamy shadow]

Once they see your passport is not Japanese, they will.

[spark cobalt]

[edgy brook]

oh okay. so it is actually important. What about the difference between high school vs uni? In germany and many eu countries students can go to any uni they want without needing any good grades and then do well there (you basically just apply and get in, hopefully you are from a eu country and know this system). Or would you say high school is still important? or just uni? sorry if this is a dumb question i just dont have anybody to ask, immigrant from poorer country to germany atm

[smoky quest]

Think about it as correlation vs causation.
People don't get A+ because they decide to. They get A+ because they do an awesome work. They do an awesome work because they know the materials and are able to assimilate the topics. By that token, they also have awesome projects because they know the topic and understand it.
So don't neglect your grades and don't pick the wrong metric for optimization.

[spark cobalt]

Either way I only want to move there for a couple years max. And then move to somewhere else.

I'd probably permanently stick to the US, but travel around the world while working.

Who knows. Decisions for a couple years down the line

[zealous path]

Ummmm…. I’m from the U.K. so I kindaaaa get what you mean by ANY uni but that’s not true.
You get in to any <50th top percent uni

[smoky quest]

The best schools provide the most/best opportunities. To get into the best college/university, it means you also need good grades in HS.
It's compounding interests

[zealous path]

Highschool isn’t that important but a good uni degree will definitely give you a head start.
TBF a good highschool/college score will get you in a good uni so…..

[edgy brook]

oh uhm ys I know the UK system. In germany it is actually different, you can get into any uni including the top ranked one TUM without needing good grades. In Switzerland with ETH it is the same thing as well. so i am not neglecting my grades but this difference between entry requirements in us/uk vs germany/switzerland is odd

[summer roost]

google doesnt even look at grades
is certainly not true. A good GPA listed on your resume will absolutely help you land interviews.

[dreamy shadow]

I don't that's entirely true for universities acceptance. Also depends on what "good grades" is defined as.

[delicate bane]

also have you considered doing internships while at uni? or even better, have you considered any with co-op programs?

[edgy brook]

so for example ETH only requires a B average to let you in as an entry requirement for german high school students. and it is a prestigious CS uni from what iv heard..... again im not neglecting my grades actually I am doing very well. I just dont know if i am required to keep an A+ in history or english literature when i could be focusing more on math/cs

[zealous path]

The issue is I didn’t focus of literature and the rest simply cause UK has Sixth form.
You pick 3/4 subjects and specialise in them for 2 years between HS and Uni, so I could drop the “unnecessary” subjects but if you’re going straight from HS to Uni then I don’t recommend getting lazy

Keep up your grades till you get into Uni

[delicate bane]

is this those "A-levels" or is this something else. uk education confuses me.

[zealous path]

Yep

[edgy brook]

it is. here is the official website of TUM, the top uni in germany, for example: https://www.tum.de/studium/bewerbung/infoportal-bewerbung/zulassungsvoraussetzungen
and here is ETH, the top uni in switzerland https://www.swissuniversities.ch/themen/studium/zulassung-zu-den-universitaeren-hochschulen/laender#DE

[zealous path]

As-Levels are 1st year
A-Levels are 2nd year
So I got A-Levels in Physics, Maths and Chem with an As in Philosophy

[edgy brook]

yep im familiar

and im also aware in the UK there is actually a bigger difference

you apply through UCAS and put your grades and personal statement then also do interviews and an exam for some unis

[vagrant fiber]

I wanna become software engineer am 14 thinking about becoming one but what happens if I know how to program but don't get an job

It can ruin life if you don't get an job or can't find one

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, TUM has an acceptance rate of 8%. Good grades aren't going to get you in alone. Edit: Maybe, not germany so not entirely sure.

[edgy brook]

in germany though you get in to any university without needing to uphold a certain grade so that confuses me

[zealous path]

Yeah but you can say that about EVERY job

[vagrant fiber]

But epically with software engineer how r u ment to get in companies

[zealous path]

There’s a possibility to not get a job in EVERY profession

[vagrant fiber]

Ok ig

[zealous path]

Just apply, have a good CV, maybe a portfolio and ace the tests they give you

[edgy brook]

hmmmm this is not true. it is only true for international students, for german students it says in the website "Zulassungsfreie Studiengänge" which means without any entry requirements for german students with the secondary education of Abitur

[zealous path]

As someone in data, if you pick literally ANY other niche, you’ll probably get in. Everyone and their grandma wants to be in data

[dreamy shadow]

Cries in US

[delicate bane]

facts.

[dreamy shadow]

50% of people who connect their washing machine to wifi.

[spark cobalt]

Wtf that's a thing???

[edgy brook]

yes i know the fact its so different makes me so confused. for example ETH is ranked top 10 for cs and any swiss student can just enroll. then they filter out by doing hard exams with 50%+ drop out rate in the first semester. The reason is uni in europe is free, so there is no risk of a student paying 50k in the first year just to drop out

[dreamy shadow]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/half-of-smart-appliances-remain-disconnected-from-internet-makers-lament/
Companies: We want more data.

[dreamy shadow]

Cries harder in US

[edgy brook]

hahaha

[spark cobalt]

There's smart washing machines wtf. Who's paying that heavy premium for nothing.

[dreamy shadow]

cough Samsung appliances cough

[spark cobalt]

Even smart refrigerators I don't get either. Like why do you need an iPad on your fridge

[dreamy shadow]

Hey, don't be hating on that ipad. That ipad FEEDS SWEs.

[edgy brook]

well the upside is you guys have some much better top unis. as well as the uk. there are only 2 top 50 unis in germany and no better. in general european unis arent as well known. Except ETH

[delicate bane]

careers cough. dont want the mods to come knocking.

[spark cobalt]

I'm honestly piked to get Samsung phones but they look like shit compared to the Pixel

[delicate bane]

the question is. as someone in data, should we stay in data or consider other adjacent roles like software

[dreamy shadow]

See above: "US great if you're not poor. Just don't be poor ™️ "

[delicate bane]

or specialized roles like "data engineering" (even though thats super broad atm)

[edgy brook]

oh just read this. No i havent, i will apply for an internship at the end of my high school so in 1.5 years. I have been doing math olympiads and just got into coding recently

[delicate bane]

i think if youre worried about not getting a job out of uni, having internships on your resume will help greatly + help you decide what type of role you think you would prefer

[zealous path]

Currently a data analyst going into a kind of “data scientist”

[dreamy shadow]

Yep, that's the DS path. Going to fight people again on Data scientist is an experienced required role.

[delicate bane]

"data scientist" is a catchall term even worse than "software developer" at times. everyone has a different expectation of what a DS can do.

[edgy brook]

you guys really have a weird privatised school system. In germany even though uni is free you still get bonuses up to 1k a month from the state if your parents dont make much

[dreamy shadow]

US universities are basically: Unless you're literally mf dirt poor with 4.0 GPA + local hero, you're paying 60k per semester. PUCKER UP.

[delicate bane]

also i know people do the data analyst -> DS route. theres also the data analyst -> DE route too. either way, youll most likely end up on a higher pay trajectory than if you stayed in the data analyst role. at least thats what a DE-former-DA said was part of why he transitioned.

[zealous path]

@delicate bane @dreamy shadow main reason I say “Data Scientist” is cause I wanna be able to do everything from API integration and data acquisition to data reporting.
So start as a data analyst to understand how reporting and analysis happens and slowly integrate data engineering into my work.

[delicate bane]

ken's podcast with shashank if anyones interested

[dreamy shadow]

You can also just stay Data analyst -> Senior data analyst

[delicate bane]

hmm you think you want this until they literally throw everything under the sun at you.

[zealous path]

The end goal is:
Big company: “we need someone to do X with our data pipeline”
Big company acquaintance: “I know a guy”

[zealous path]

One thing I’ll have to do is keeping the people above in check so I don’t drown in work

[delicate bane]

just remember to ask for good pay/compensation

[zealous path]

Oh absolutely!!! I don’t just wanna be good I wanna be expensive good

[dreamy shadow]

It's been like 3 months, where tf is my annual review

[zealous path]

I joined my company in Oct 2022 and got 3/5 on my eoy review which makes sense, I didn’t do anything big.
But apparently in previous years you’d get a 2/5 instead which was terrible for your performance later

[dreamy shadow]

Also a good way to be first on the layoff list.

[delicate bane]

hey better than being on the junior side and then being laid off

[dreamy shadow]

Wtf, I joined round the same time. Bruh

[delicate bane]

companies like laying off at the extremes. or so ive heard.

[delicate bane]

bruh im pretty sure im not even gonna get mine since the guy who hired me has left.

[dreamy shadow]

First annual review, I wasn't "there long enough". Still gave me a bonus though.

[dreamy shadow]

I'm grateful my manager wrote my review before he left

[zealous path]

The more senior you are the more it’s “I’ll just get a job in like 2-3months after a company scouts me”

[delicate bane]

wtf i should have done that but he literally hired me then peaced out so it wouldnt have worked

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, I was just thinking. As more baby boomers retire, experienced people become a greater asset.

[zealous path]

My mom got laid off cause her company moved offices out of the city.
Got a massive payout and then a week after she set her status on LinkedIn, she had tens of offers from big companies like Uber, Nike, etc…. asking to hire her with 1.3x her previous salary

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, sounds like a friend at a fortune 20 company. Never got promoted while doing senior work. Pretty much pigeonholed. Changed company's and got 2x comp.

The whole loyal to me, not to thee BS

[delicate bane]

interesting perspective

[zealous path]

If she got promoted any more, she’d be c-suite

[delicate bane]

sometimes it be like that. i heard its good to have friends that can give an outside perspective whether you are pigeonholed or not since sometimes its hard to tell with your own biased perspective

[near ocean]

If the tech layoffs show anything its that loyalty means nothing

[delicate bane]

dunno if i shared this here but it def makes you think certain things...

[dreamy shadow]

Always find that take funny since it's been like that for a while. A long while

And, every time lay off is announced, company stocks go up

[near ocean]

If you take a scroll through linkedin you wouldnt be able to tell, not that linkedin sob stories matter but if i was a google employee for 15 years, head of whatever dept and they fired me like that i would be cursing the c-suites entire genealogical tree, not saying im appreciative

[dreamy shadow]

LinkedIn is all about how one crawled through the Sun's surface to reach the interview on time.

[near ocean]

True, I was the Sun in the interview

[delicate bane]

bruh imagine 15 years rip

[smoky quest]

they must have been quite comfortable

[delicate bane]

that short-term vs. long-term tradeoff. gotta love it

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, there was an article about it. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/engineer-laid-off-over-16-104711925.html Side note: I hate linking yahoo and don't think they are news

[delicate bane]

thats absolutely wild. he got an automated message and everything. wow. i cant believe.

"This also just drives home that work is not your life, and employers — especially big, faceless ones like Google — see you as 100% disposable," Moore said.

"Live life, not work," he added.

[dreamy shadow]

The one Data scientist in the HR team who wrote the model to lay off people:

[near ocean]

science and HR in the same sentence

[delicate bane]

ha! its funny you think they are still there.

actually google is one of those places where they actually do DS + HR apparently. they call it people analytics.

[dreamy shadow]

There's actually a lot of large companies that do lol.

[delicate bane]

dunno how true it is but they have it in their marketing or whatevs https://rework.withgoogle.com/subjects/people-analytics/

[dreamy shadow]

It's basically why you want to stick with profit teams. (Teams that generate direct income for the company)

Workday would be one of the largest that do HR analytics

[delicate bane]

literally this. i need to find this for my next job. are you on profit or cost side of things?

[dreamy shadow]

My team's "Analytics", so technically profit side as clients + internal team depends on us.

[delicate bane]

wow. must be nice.

i think our team isnt 100% cost. its more like 70% cost, 30% profit.

but even that is kinda optimistic. it fluctuates with projects and now that the old manager has left, we're stuck with more cost projects which isnt a good look tbh

[dreamy shadow]

I guess to be a good DS team, you need to be the go to for every profit team.

[delicate bane]

i think the lesson here is you need a good manager who can grab the right projects from other teams

but yeah i also agree with that

[daring prairie]

Is there any chance to take a job with a higher diploma in software engineering?

[summer roost]

what's a "higher diploma"? That term doesn't mean anything to me, so it might be something specific to your country's education system.

what country are you in?

[stoic solar]

I am planning to take the Professional Certified Entry-Level Python Programmer certification on Python institute. i want to know if I would get a job as a software developer with the PCEP certification?

[white relic]

It won't likely have a strong effect on your hireability. There's no Python certificate that does.

[pine sleet]

Certificates don't usually mean a lot when compared to a formal education degree or previous work experience

[stoic solar]

https://pythoninstitute.org/pcep

[pine sleet]

Those two are one of the most definitive ways to land a job

[stoic solar]

what about entry level positions?

[pine sleet]

A degree will still be one of the most important

Or even previous internships count as experience

[stoic solar]

mhm

[delicate bane]

this question is so common. i wonder if we should also have a pinned message regarding certificates?

obv it wont help everyone that doesnt read the pinned messages but still

[white relic]

The name "Python Institute" makes it sound official and authoritative but it's not really

[delicate bane]

yep yep

[pseudo bone]

My company is having 2.5 % downsizing of around 3K employees.i am still on probation how likely is it that i might get fired?

[white relic]

Depends on your company and whether your division/functional area is the main thing getting hit

Layoffs are often about "trimming the fat", i.e. cutting people whose jobs are overpaid, unnecessary or not in line with the company's primary business. Shedding people who just started working there (and are otherwise expected to become productive employees) isn't usually in the company's best interest

But it would depend a lot on, well, everything

[sleek egret]

but if you "live life, not work", then you're even more replaceable.

[vapid jay]

Not a lot

i assume that its big across different countries

[delicate bane]

cant win. guess only way is to not play the game. multiple income streams?

[sleek egret]

no silly, become one of the exploiters instead of staying one of the exploited

IOW, you can win. but you have to play the game to win instead of staying one of the pawns.

we live in a capitalist system, not a laborist system. ya dig, fam?

[near ocean]

me playing Shadow of Mordor on company time in my undies somehow being the exploited one

[vagrant fiber]

What subjects do you need to study to become one software engineer

[sleek egret]

"exploitation" has negative connotations. but strictly speaking, the both employee and employer can simultaneously exploit each other. that's what makes capitalism awesome.

[sleek egret]

as opposed to two software engineer?

[gilded valley]

Software engineers in the US are pretty fucking far from being exploited

[vagrant fiber]

It's an typo I ment what subjects do you need to study to become a software engineer

[sleek egret]

Or maybe that's exactly what we WANT you to think? Hmm? Ever consider THAT?

[sleek egret]

Generally speaking, software engineering or computer science. Perhaps you could provide a bit more context or restrict the scope of your question?

[near ocean]

you need a degree in computer science or a STEM degree with some exposure to programming

[gilded valley]

When the socialist revolution comes, I don't think the ex-googlers will be all too thrilled

[vagrant fiber]

I'm only 14 ._.

[delicate bane]

that honestly sounds like a lot of work. my friend also wants me to join him when he creates a startup but im like idk about that fam. i like health insurance and a salary lol.

[sleek egret]

Many will be for a few days... until they're lined up against the wall, of course 🙂

[vagrant fiber]

Wdym

[sleek egret]

You are correct. it's both a huge amount of work and very high risk.

[near ocean]

stay in school and look at what subjects your universities ask for admissions

[vagrant fiber]

O ok

[delicate bane]

like gambling? i mean stocks, i mean what

[sleek egret]

For HS take the advanced level math and science classes.

[vagrant fiber]

O ok

[sleek egret]

Take anything computers/software/tech related if your school offers them. But don't skimp on the liberal arts stuff (writing, history, literature, civics, etc.) either as they are important too

Oh, and don't forget your extracurriculars like music and sports. Also important so that you are well rounded.

[rich violet]

What classes/courses should I take if I want to be a software developer

[zealous path]

It really depends what software.
There’s desktop, mobile….

It’s like asking how to be an Olympiad. There’s dozens of choices of sports that you can do

[vapid jay]

i like low-level stuff, i love doing frontend but i am really bad at it and i know bash scripting...
i don't have much experience in all of these though (not even half a year)
i was wondering, if i wanted to have a job, what would suit me the best
btw, i have a decent knowledge in math relative to my age

(i have no idea what my job would be if i became a programmer)

[sleek egret]

bash is the opposite of "low level"

[gritty rivet]

if i wanted to have a job

How about a degree? Are you in high school?

[sleek egret]

HS kids don't actually want a job, they want money

[vapid jay]

would still require some sort of labor tho

[robust island]

I don't want a job, I want a career

[hidden linden]

ok guys im new to coding and I decided to start learning with python I am in a situation where I want to get a job in this field as soon as possible and I want a starting path I can take any recommendations. As I build experience I eventually want to go full stack but for the time being I want to start off small to get my foot in the door because my current job makes me want to jump off a cliff

lol

[zealous path]

Mood

[hidden linden]

based

Like my current job is so bad I had to take temporary leave due to it causing me severe mental health issues

[zealous path]

OOF, had that as well

[hidden linden]

have you guessed what job I am talking about?

[zealous path]

Retail? XD

[hidden linden]

close

[zealous path]

What is it?

[hidden linden]

Amazon fulfillment center

I wasn't lying when I said you were close

[zealous path]

OH GOD

[zealous path]

7th circle of hell

[hidden linden]

you see why I am desperate to find a new job quickly?

thats why I need a clear cut strategy on what path to take

I already am halfway through intro to python programming and I need to know what I should do next

[zealous path]

Data analyst is the easiest job to get your foot in the door but it’s really hit or miss about which programming language you use (if you use any)

[hidden linden]

SQL I heard is huge in that

Amazon has that but its in a warehouse most of the time and we all know how I feel about that lol

[zealous path]

I ideally want to go into Data Engineer -> Data Scientist but had to take Data Analyst as my first data role since I wasn’t getting through the interviews for the engineering.

[hidden linden]

I kinda like the idea of web development but that I am guessing will require more effort

[zealous path]

Yeah, my partner is a frontend mobile software developer. It took them a few years of learning and building a portfolio to get where they are now

[robust island]

Depends, some people (usually the more creative people from what I can tell) are really talented at frontend dev

[hidden linden]

Data analyst it is then

[zealous path]

XD

[hidden linden]

if it can get me a job faster I will take it

[zealous path]

What country are you in?

[hidden linden]

anything is better than amazon warehouse associate

[hidden linden]

Mcdonalds

[barren umbra]

hey, im in the same boat. I want a career change and im just starting out with python. Any recommendations on which course is worth it and where to go from here?

[hidden linden]

if you go on Udacity you can find intro to python programming for free

[robust island]

!resources has a lot of good stuff

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[barren umbra]

oo thanks

[hidden linden]

I was actually going to do data structures and algorithms after intro to python but I am starting to think that it might be a bad idea what do you guys think?

[barren umbra]

i just finished the learn python in an hour vid from Mosh and was considering his courses

[hidden linden]

my reasoning was Amazon is huge on data structures and algorithms from my research

[barren umbra]

Do you have a particular career you want to focus on?

[smoky quest]

Every company is big into data structures and algorithms since it's the foundation of CS

[hidden linden]

I'm just lost on what I should do if its worth my time investment or go towards data analyst route

im in a situation where I need to land a job quickly as possible so I need to come up with a plan

[smoky quest]

Walk backward from your objective. data analyst is very different from software engineer.
You can also look at https://roadmap.sh/ for examples of skills depending on the role

[smoky quest]

None of them will happen quickly. It will take months/years.
If you need a job quickly, find any other job to sustain yourself while you prepare your big move

[barren umbra]

im in the same boat lol I think for data analyst there are some entry level jobs out there that you can get esp. wfh

[zealous path]

Depends. Currently my job is designing software to do my analysis for me

[hidden linden]

im at amazon and its killing my soul T_T

ik im being a huge baby but its true lol

[smoky quest]

I empathize and understand.
But remember that high paying jobs are also very attractive to a lot of people. If it was that easy, everyone would do it and not work in the warehouses

[hidden linden]

Tl: DR version back end got it

well alrighty then

This might take a year I would imagine

[true harness]

a university degree is 4, of which i'd say about 3 are CS courses. a single year to learn all that would be exceptional

[delicate bane]

frontend react route is probably the quickest route atm or so they say

[hidden linden]

trying to figure out an idea route for me is hard

@smoky quest in your opinion if you had to make a recommendation on what I should learn in addition to python what should it be?

im taking intro to python right now what should I add besides that

[smoky quest]

You can also look at https://roadmap.sh/ for examples of skills depending on the role

[patent grove]

are the salaries higher in Fort Lauderdale, Florida or San Jose, California? Or is it about the same u guys would say?

Like if someone earns 90k-100k Fort Lauderdale, would it be the sameish salary in san jose for the same company?

[smoky quest]

San Jose would be much higher than the other two

[patent grove]

if u were to puit a range how much more? like 5-10k difference or much more?

[white relic]

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/fort-lauderdale-fl/san-jose-ca/90000

[true harness]

isn't this easily googleable? just look for indeed, glassdoor, levels, or just BLS

[patent grove]

wow what lol

[white relic]

agrees with anecdotal evidence of people I know

[patent grove]

this is a ridiculous difference

[white relic]

yes

[patent grove]

so its like almost double pretty much

is it really that cheap in fort lauderdale haha

[white relic]

no

but it really is that expensive in the bay area

[patent grove]

oh i guess thats probably the better possibility lmao

[regal tundra]

Hi I'm a nearish-finished cognitive science phd student w/o a cs degree but quite a bit of coding and even cs knowhow. Specializing in computational modeling of memory and reading but also I'm not that great a grad student, few pubs and all though they are alright pubs. I want to get a job in either software engineering or data science when I'm done. I've learned a lot that I find cool and useful, but I'm okay starting from a junior position. I could use a checklist or strategy for maximizing my performance when I finally do my job search in a year or so. leetcode/portfolio/interview practice/networking is that it?? any secrets/strategies that might be unknown to someone who's perhaps never had an extended convo w someone established in the industry?

[summer roost]

have you taken any CS courses while in uni? In terms of helpfulness when it comes to landing a job, a Data Structures and Algorithms course or book probably has the most bang for the buck. You may be able to parlay some of your skills more or less easily into a data science type of role, depending on what level of math is required for your computational modeling of memory.

[regal tundra]

i have a textbook for data structures and algorithms from a course i took after intro cs. awfully dull but i could review it sure

tbh i don't know if i want a job that's as open-ended as my phd so im nervous about trying for DS even if i could get a job. i crave...requirements

[patent grove]

i would say leetcode

[delicate bane]

would be easier to get a job if you did an internship or two before you finish your phd.

[regal tundra]

I probably need to spend majority of my time on phd to make sure I finish on time but I agree an intership would be ideal. Maybe the summer right as or after I'm finishing?

But again, I can't say I'm the cream of the crop studentwise. I have a good GPA because all grad students have a good GPA but I have some doubt I could compete w/ similarly finished PhDs for a competitive position given my publication record (and lack of truly serious CS chops).

[minor timber]

Hey,

Just got my A.A.S in Cyber Security from Comm College, along with 3 certs. 2 Cyber, 1 Programming Proficiency (since I initially went for Comp Science but the high level math forced me to switch). Getting discouraged my lack of a BS (don't have the money + mom wants me to get a job now) eliminates me from applying to a lot of roles that "Require pursing BS degree". Maybe it's my resume that's been getting me turned down for internships. If anyone has free time to help me I'd be forever grateful.

I'm posting this in the Python discord because during my CS classes I took a lot of coding and python, and since forced into cyber I want a way to incorperate my programming experience (not CS major, but enough for personal github projects I can show)

I have skills I just have a hard time professionally selling myself. Plus, I'm all on my own my mom works in Healthcare and has no clue about my field.

Thank ya all :)))

[spark cobalt]

Maybe can help if you send your resume (though you might wanna anonymize it beforehand)

[minor timber]

A lot of what experience I've listed has nothing to do with cyber security. I pretty much haven't worked an IT job other than when I made digital advertisements in photoshop and indesign for a company. I mean I know ticketing systems, whatever but don't know if even sharing what I have is worth it. I'm hoping the section on summary, education, skills, and the digital design experience... I'm lost lol.

Side note: I got a job offer for a computer repair store for $12/hr... I was like damn...

They had a maximum of $30 for the top role, which I've taken classes doing what the description said. I'd need maybe 2 weeks to get up to speed. Smh

thx for ur response

[spark cobalt]

I don't really know what an IT hiring manager looks for in a resume, but maybe it's still worth sending for others to see where you're lacking in your initial advertisement or selling of yourself.

[minor timber]

Okay, to whomever has the change to check these out. I believe this was for various Cyber security positions/internships/entry level jobs. One for Comcast which I got swiftly turned down, but I don't believe it was this version.

https://imgur.com/a/hZmw78M

I can provide my Github through DMs if anyone really has the time.

pasting it in chatgpt is pretty damn amazing too

ChatGPT:
Your resume is well-organized and includes a variety of relevant information. However, there are a few things that could be improved to increase your chances of landing a cybersecurity internship.

Tailor your summary to the cybersecurity field. Instead of simply stating that you are a responsible and self-motivated student, highlight specific skills or achievements that demonstrate your expertise in cybersecurity.

Highlight your certifications more prominently. These certifications demonstrate that you have a level of expertise in the field, so make sure they are easy for potential employers to find.

Include any relevant projects or coursework that you completed in your cybersecurity classes. This will give employers a better idea of your capabilities and experience in the field.

Consider including a section on any related extracurricular activities or volunteer work that you have done. This will show employers that you are passionate about cybersecurity and have been proactive in gaining experience in the field.

Consider to remove or shorten the section of your food service experience, It may not be related to cybersecurity and could distract from the relevant information on your resume.

Proofread your resume to ensure that it is free of typos and grammatical errors.

Include a LinkedIn profile and GitHub link, if available, to give potential employers easy access to your online presence.

Finally, make sure you have a clear and professional email address, phone number, and physical address on your resume.

Damn

[summer roost]

food service?

[vapid jay]

i didn't say it's low-level 💀

[vapid jay]

[spark cobalt]

He's not wrong lol

[dreamy shadow]

lmao, was thinking of commenting on that resume. But that's a large can of worms.

[summer roost]

I mean, sure, but also, s/HS kids/people

[spark cobalt]

Keezy taught me well

[spark cobalt]

[smoky quest]

The main issue is there is no demonstration of your skills. No activity (CTF or other) nor programming projects nor involvement in anything in your school and no internship.

Also putting chatgpt as a skill is something that could potentially make it difficult for employers to take a candidate seriously. You would have more ROI with more tangible skills

iso standards are only standards. It's like putting you have "A4" as a skill. It doesn't tell the reviewer why they should care about it. Do you do audits? Help with compliance? Have you done anything related to it before?

[karmic token]

also ChatGPT isn't a skill lol

not yet at least, but the time where AI-whispering will be a real valuable skill is coming

[minor timber]

I appreciate the advice, I really needed someone who would tell it to me straight, be as blunt as possible. I went to a comm college, and there weren't too many resources plus I didn't reach out for help building these resumes (parental/home issues/lack of motivation). No internships offered for my field at my school, they kept emailing us about Saxby's manager role tho...

I switched to Cyber security from Comp Science as a last minute thing so I'm pretty damn lost in what I even want to do in the field. My teachers required bare minimum of coursework to be completed to pass, but I'd usually go over and beyond. I never got to core Cyber Sec classes, as I haven't went for bachelors, where I feel those courses (audits, compliance) would come from.

[smoky quest]

fyi, internships are the responsibility of the student, not the school. It's on the student to get one

If you have been over and beyond, then you definitely should have something to show and be proud of! That's the type of things to put on a resume

[vapid pilot]

whats the difference betweeen CE and CS degree

[near ocean]

Not much difference, maybe some of the modules they have included

[white relic]

As a general rule CE will involve a lot more electronics, digital circuits, hardware. CS will have more theory, math, software.

My CE major was basically EE except I didn't take signals & systems or thermodynamics. But I did take statics, dynamics, materials engineering, and a lot of analog electronics. (In addition to a few core CS courses, naturally.)
Mine was probably a bit of an anomaly.

Best way to find out is to look at the university catalog.

[near ocean]

Oh lol, i misread that CE as SE 💀

[true harness]

imo, your relevant coursework is too comprehensive. you should get rid of most of it. it can be assumed that someone with your major has taken basic programming courses

[hearty island]

lol how did you even get on chatgpt? whenever i try it’s always at full service

[crude moon]

what country are you in? im in uk it works every time

[hearty island]

US

[brittle thorn]

This leads to misery long term maybe trapped in high paying jobs they don't like or enjoy or going for degrees they aren't well suited for just because it may pay well ... and then not finish

[zealous path]

No point being knowledgeable enough for a job if they don’t want to hire you on personality/enthusiasm

[deft herald]

My team has made a couple of hires that had great technical ability but ended up being a poor "culture fit". Now we're stuck with them and despite their high rank and technical ability, they don't contribute much

[near ocean]

How does poor culture fit stop them from contributing? Are they refusing tickets/work?

[vapid jay]

Hi everyone, actually I need your advice like which one is good for me like I have two choices right now one worked as an associate software engineer with less salary or study masters in us what you think what I do right now

[zealous path]

Could be a clash of “my solution is better than yours and I don’t wanna hear it”

[true harness]

why are they still employed if they aren't contributing . surely a less skilled but actually contributing person would be higher value. plus you can pay them less

[vapid jay]

Hi everyone, actually I need your advice like which one is good for me like I have two choices right now one worked as an associate software engineer with less salary or study masters in us what you think what I do right now

[true harness]

can you afford a master's? if so the 2 years of not working might not be a big deal. a master's will likely make it easier to find a job with a higher starting salary

[zealous path]

Yeah, should be quickly booted the moment a performance review comes up

[deft herald]

Yeah basically they have their own agenda and don't want to conform to how the rest of the team operates

They end up just doing duplicate work. "I build this test case and validated it using system YYY", but the rest of the team uses system XXX so now some junior engineer gets to redo all of that other guy's work on the other framework so we can actually utilize it

[deft herald]

Honestly don't know. I do know one of these people in question had a fairly poor review this past cycle. It takes a lot more than one below-average review to get rid of someone

which i guess is a good thing. Managers and team leads will work a lot more closely with someone like that to get them to provide a higher value to the team

if they consistently perform below expectations, then more aggressive action will be taken

[boreal forge]

Aren't AI like GPT-3 and future similar models a menace to the IT job market

[zealous path]

Maybe in 10-15 years

[deft herald]

really?

[zealous path]

By the time chatGPT and the rest replace us, every other job would have been automated by then

[deft herald]

"ChatGPT, please move these servers for me"

[zealous path]

You forget the goal is to have literally everything automated so humans don’t have to work anymore

[true harness]

not yet

[zealous path]

You won’t even be asking that question. It’d be one AI to another 😂

[deft herald]

😦

this is how we get to a society like that in Ready Player One

[leaden jasper]

They can't come up with novel solutions or know how to get more info and filter through information to determine what is correct and relevant. So no, not really.

[boreal forge]

We all underestimate the learning speed of AI

[leaden jasper]

Not really. It takes a lot of data, effort, and time to train.

[pine sleet]

It seems like AI is good at using stuff that already exists out there, but maybe not so much at coming up with something completely new on its own 🤔

[hearty island]

i think something should be pinned here for when the chat gpt topic comes up

[pine sleet]

This is not the right channel or server for this

[deft herald]

also, no. You were banned for good reason

As Robin said, this is not the place. So drop it

[pine sleet]

Please take this off server

[hollow seal]

When ChatGPT turns into a full fledged robot. That’s no problem.

[deft herald]

shivers

Then we can call it Chappie, for short

[sleek egret]

let's not

[echo snow]

I don't really get software engineering, the ones i see on youtube, they talk about working for a company which pays them. But the ones i see on discord say its like service, clients come to the devs to make a software and thats their only source of income, so if a software engineer doesn't get a client for 1 year, does that mean he wont earn anything that year?

[robust island]

The latter is what a freelancer would do. However, the majority of software engineers work for a company and get paid a salary

[echo snow]

oh

[echo snow]

so u work for a company?

[robust island]

Not yet, no

[echo snow]

you're still in university?

[robust island]

Yeah

[echo snow]

what year? or you're still a freshman

[robust island]

Junior in hs, taking uni courses through a school program

[echo snow]

"Not yet" so you are studying computer science?

[robust island]

Yeah, I'm planning in pursuing a career in swe

[echo snow]

this is what i got when i just browsed what hs means
"What is hidradenitis suppurativa (HS)?"

[robust island]

High school

[echo snow]

bro is pursuing a career in society of women engineers? 💀

[robust island]

Lol no, software engineering XD

[echo snow]

oh xD

cuz i was also feeling a bit discouraged about the fact that software engineers i meet on discord depend on clients as a source of income

[robust island]

Well everyone does, but it's more often than not the company's job to find the client and you just make what your boss says

[sleek egret]

clients suck

[dreamy shadow]

Needed to talk with manager on some stuff. Moment I step away to get some food: "I got 10 minutes now". Bruh

[sleek egret]

food is for the weak

[dreamy shadow]

TMW: Other team still filters the master table instead of using the already filtered tables available in Datalake. I even explained we had sub tables that are pre-filtered.

[brittle thorn]

Get enough money you can rely on investments as source of income but until then clients it is

[gritty rivet]

Sane investors don't stick around long if you're not serving clients

[sleek egret]

what will you do when you have so much data it's a dataocean instead of a measly datalake?

[summer roost]

the ones who depend on clients are basically self-employed software engineers. Most software engineers are employed by someone else's company, but some run their own company. The ones who run their own company need to find clients to self stuff to.

that's just normal stuff for running your own company - you won't have a company for long if you don't find clients to self stuff to.

[spark cobalt]

This happens way too fucking much

[spark cobalt]

Got return offer

[true light]

Who can be build a whole data base with python throughout

[near ocean]

!rule 9 Are you asking because you want to hire someone?

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[true light]

No

[near ocean]

This is the wrong channel regardless

[zealous path]

Technically anyone can if they know what they’re doing

[true harness]

sounds like the thing you wouldn't want to use python for, though

[smoky quest]

Hi!
It's not the place to shitpot

[pine sleet]

shitpot

[delicate bane]

going to a conference tomorrow. lowkey nervous. i dont think i know how to do this networking thing even though i know its important in building a career

[unique siren]

hi

[summer roost]

"networking" is just the grown-up word for "making friends"

find people with common interests or similar jobs, and talk to them about stuff.

[delicate bane]

but making friends as an adult is harder...

[summer roost]

indeed. that's why we need a grown up word for the grown up work of making grown up friends.

[delicate bane]

haha i will try my best godly.

[peak halo]

@delicate bane we can be grown-up friends

[pine sleet]

can we also be grown up friends?

[spark cobalt]

I need friends fr

[delicate bane]

ok. you are part of my network now. am i doing this right

[spark cobalt]

Rex wb me

[smoky quest]

only if it's on linkedin

[spark cobalt]

Let's connect on LinkedIn

[smoky quest]

sure. Just send an invite

[daring prairie]

Can I become a software developer with bachelor in information technology degree?

[buoyant seal]

Name does not matter, only subjects u learned.
U do realize degrees can be named differently in different countries 🙂

[steel kindle]

Anyone have experience transitioning to remote contact work? How did you go about doing it?

[buoyant seal]

i had already two jobs where transitioned to remote work after some time. Could u clarify what is exactly u a asking

[tight sable]

who can make a website for me(I am 15 years old )

[spark cobalt]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[tight sable]

Dm me if u can do it.

[tight sable]

got it

[spark cobalt]

💀

[steel kindle]

I want to work fully remote but have the ability to work from any country, so it’d likely need to be a contract gig

[buoyant seal]

Questions aren't identified

[signal marten]

I need help identify my role in my org, I do Automation, Microservice with twisted, Worked on Django and FastAPI, i know little bit of Front End. So which job is more suitable for me

Like am i a backend developer or Automation developer ?

[spark cobalt]

Can you not be both?

[signal marten]

All the jobs post contains Either Backend or Automation or Fullstack

Hard for me to choose my carrier

[buoyant seal]

Do you have degree?
Do you like unit testing or planning to learn it? If already learned, are you fascinated to write them all the time during development as a process of development?
And you interested often dealing with databases?
What is automation developer responsibilities?

[spark cobalt]

Just do what you like more..?

You should know what job is more suitable for you from your experience doing both roles. Which one did you like more? Or which one are you willing to sacrifice for the other?

[signal marten]

Yes i have Bachelors degree
I know unit test needs little brushing it was way long since i used unit test since i became a senior
Yes i deal with Databases Mongodb and Elastic
My Automation responsibility is to Create Pipeline scripts and Write Parsers(Extracting info from text)

[buoyant seal]

That's what we try to do here, trying to uncover if he likes different aspects of development 😁

[signal marten]

I will do anything as long its python

[buoyant seal]

ergh... you haven't used unit testing since you became senior... senior of what? is it meaning age?

[signal marten]

Senior Engineer

we don't have a specific title

[white relic]

so... what do you need one for?

[buoyant seal]

are you having mainly communicating / leader duties at the moment?
what are you current responsibilities out of curiosity

[signal marten]

Little bit of leader duties but mainly i wrote codes, The reason there is no unit test is I have very short deadlines like 1 day or 2 day
My responsibilities are writing microservices and if any bug occurs on other application they will call me, Finally i build Fullstack applications with with react (low QOL)

[buoyant seal]

do you like working with frontend/React?
do you like automation responsibilities
do you like backend responsibilities?
do you like leader duties?
put some rate how much

[signal marten]

Yes i like working in frontend and backend but i don't like leader duties cause i like to write codes instead of leading them.

[buoyant seal]

all right. my very opinionated evaluation is complete:
here is the result in some places brutally honest:

i recommend to continue career of frontend/fullstack person (preferably frontend in my opinion)
because your backend skills look quite low. (beginning junior or something)
at your current salary/rank you would be probably already not very willing to accept it, so i don't have a lot hope that u will fix it.

Choose whatever you like of course.

[white relic]

What are you hoping to learn here?
If someone says "you're a backend developer", will that stop you from applying to a job opening that requires your exact skill set, in a location you want to work, with a company you'd love to work for, at 25% above market compensation, because it was called "Automation Engineer"?

[signal marten]

Thank you for your honest opinion, i try to fix it and try to learn more things suitable for me like frontend

[signal marten]

I am just trying to find Which role i am at in my org

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

You either uploaded a .txt file or entered a message that was too long. Please use our paste bin instead.

[signal marten]

@buoyant seal What are you opinion what are the things needed for a backend developer ?

[buoyant seal]

P.S. i evaluated backend skills as low because u don't use unit testing, that's first red flag, as it is obligatory skill from middle rank of backend, or even junior rank.
After that people learn code architecture which is spanned into multiple more skills regarding code quality
And you also said that you wish to go with dynamic typed development only, which has certain limitations to going further in this path, so i see that potentially this road can be against your wishes.

frontend development on other hand is not even strictly requiring testing in the first place 😆 at least it is possible to go in it without it, though it woud benefit from it too

[vapid jay]

https://paste.pythondiscord.com/oponigabin

[vapid jay]

whenevr i try to put Main Module and Extra Module in same embed with inline = true it's giving me error can anyone help me with it ?

[buoyant seal]

https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap/blob/master/swe_backend.drawio.svg
check green skills in the roadmap
also https://roadmap.sh/backend https://roadmap.sh/computer-science https://roadmap.sh/backend stuff
backend is about writing code quality at some point
book like Code Complete by McConnel will get very good brief introduction through all aspects of Backend/Software Development. This book is just an intro though
Also Unit testing by Vladimir Khorikov is awesome book to start understading WHY unit testing is needed, highly recommending. It is useful for anyone, frontend and automation included

[vapid jay]

,,

[signal marten]

That road map is mind blowing i just learned i have so much to learn

[buoyant seal]

consider reading Unit testing book at some point as may be even the first one for you right now extremely need 🙂
it would benefit all your aspects of development, be it frontend backend or automation. Mostly it would be useful for backend, then for automation and at the last for frontend though
You can't make even parsing any good without unit testing, because once input data changes -> you are screwed to be not finding where was error and what changed
I saw funny project which died when new year happened and people changed a bit different aspects about input data like that 😆
It was full stack project, with parsing, extremely professional use of databases, some frontend. But no unit testing. It just died because it was not maintanable

being a good backend/software developer is about writing code that is maintanable, readable by other developers and by you a month later once u forgot about it

[signal marten]

ok i definitely start adding unit test to my project from now onwards

Which project was that died?

[white relic]

I'm not really understanding the point of the question.
Your role is what you do at your job. What you call it, beyond your job title, is pretty arbitrary. What practical use does it give you to decide that you just "are" a frontend developer or not?

[buoyant seal]

the most importance of unit testing that it simplifies debugging, unit tests help to localize any bugs in your application, by quickly identifying where project is not working.
and also it simplifies one of Core Software Engineering/Backend things like Refactoring your code to cleaner state.
Anyway, it optimizes you to write code faster and having it maintanable... so it is not excuse to not write tests even if you need to complete project for tomorrow
Unit tests severaly decrease debugging time during development and help to complete stuff for tomorrow too.
But of course the most important is, that your code becomes also a bit documented, and u will be able to fix it if something got oudated / or new feature needs to be introduced. As people usually need refactoring code in order to introduce new features to existing code base.

[buoyant seal]

That's not important, it was project of my first tech leader, which worked as full stack at his previous job/project. He was good database expert with 11 years of experience.
He made his full stack project which parsed government databases regarding documents and provided info for users.
But he made no unit testing, no infrastructure as a code automation, no proper development environment with workflow automating processes of testing and deployment
That led to project death when happened 2021 new year, and project just changed everywhere little bit variable inputs from it
he asked me to help with that project, but i understood that it was screwed beyond repairs beecause of how not maintanable things are in his backend

[signal marten]

ok i didnt know there is a deep meaning to unit test i usually do unit test to validate my code and mock my clients and servers

[signal marten]

ok i thought you were referring to a public project

[buoyant seal]

nah, just private work project, not even mine. But it was good lesson to me what can be result 😆 Especially after reading book of Khorikov about Unit testing best principles and practices where it clearly explained what it was destined to doom

[twin idol]

hi guys where do i dive deep to find more cybersecurity resources? learning how to do pen tests from basic to advanced etc. can anyone link me? btw i already have some hacking experience already and i wanna advance myself

[signal marten]

I will read that book

[near ocean]

Unit testing isnt word of god
Its great when its there and works but its not a measure of how good a dev you are

[buoyant seal]

if you don't have unit testing, it is clear measure how not good you are with Software Engineering (applicable at least to Backend / Desktop / Mobile developments)

unit testing is not a flag saying you are good, but lack of it is clear sign you are not good (and not having enough knowledge to be Middle ranked in software development in terms of code architecture)

[near ocean]

I think you should put down your books a bit and actually look at the state of projects in real life

[buoyant seal]

what can i say, except for condolences if you needed to accept such point of view. Thankfully all my jobs, even with the most broken projects of really bad developers, still had unit testing. In a bad state where they broken all possible rules, but had, which provided me with minimal ability to help them with features they wish to add in addition

[near ocean]

What point of view? To not be absolutist? Do you also worry about hitting arbitrary coverage numbers?

[buoyant seal]

unit testing is not absolutism. It is pretty much minimal requirement for job level of code quality.
absolutism is at entirely different levels many magnitudes above.

[near ocean]

I dont think you have the experience necessary to tell other people their skills arent up to scratch because of the state of their unit testing or what kind of language they want to use in the future
maybe tone it down a bit

[gilded valley]

if you don't have unit testing, it is clear measure how not good you are with Software Engineering

That's pretty fucking absolutist

[buoyant seal]

Anyway, my condolences. I truly pity you for dealing with projects like this. And admire for your strength. https://media3.giphy.com/media/WO5Q7FsxJN2pjYc424/giphy.gif

[near ocean]

These arent the opinions of someone being pragmatic but someone who wont put their perceived "bibles" down for a second

[white relic]

déjà vu from this discussion

[sleek egret]

I'm absolutely sure that everything is relaative

or maybe I'm relatively sure that some things are absolute?

[spark cobalt]

Monthly thing

I used to think LinkedIn was a better social media than shit like Instagram. But now LinkedIn is 95% doomer stuff and 5% people posting shit they have 0 credibility in posting.

What social media do you guys use for more tech stuff?

[white relic]

linkedin is unironically what facebook used to be

... but there's not really anything like a competitor, so...

[spark cobalt]

I've looked at so many LinkedIn posts that when I was gonna write something for my LinkedIn thing, I was like... Fuck I sound like every other LinkedIner ever. And that was a little scary...

Like when people make a post on them getting a new job and they're all literally copy pastes of each other my god

Oh and all the comments and posts that are like "ong this written by ChatGPT"

The hype over please stop

[white relic]

I pretty much ignore linkedin unless I'm searching for a job

[spark cobalt]

I should start doing that. The news spreading on LinkedIn is garbage.

[near ocean]

I used chatgpt to write my linkedin profile description 💀

[hearty island]

“As a student project manager manager, I am seeking opportunities to expand my skills and gain hands-on experience in managing complex projects from start to finish. With a strong background in project planning, risk management, and stakeholder communication, I am confident in my ability to drive results and deliver projects on time, within budget, and to the satisfaction of all stakeholders. I am a quick learner, a team player, and possess a positive can-do attitude. Connect with me to explore opportunities to collaborate on projects and help me further develop my project management expertise.”

chatgpt generated ^

[spark cobalt]

I just kept mine to like 6 words

Oh actually 9.

Ain't nobody reading LinkedIn profile description that's over like 1 sentence long. Everyone on LinkedIn kind of pretends to give a shit lol.

[hearty island]

quick learner, team player, can do attitude 💀 buzz words that mean jackshit

[buoyant seal]

Achievement unlocked

[spark cobalt]

Just say something personable and leave it at that. Ain't nobody care if you a hard worker let's be fr

Like its seen all the time people's minds just naturally gloss over it like it's filler text

[hearty island]

yep

[spark cobalt]

Like deadass: "I like spaghetti" is better than "I'm <insert 39 buzzwords>"

[opal fossil]

hi everyone

I am Lamor as my name sayes

[sleek egret]

HI LAMOR!

[opal fossil]

last year i have began my programming jurny

hi rmah

[sleek egret]

last year my woman left me and my dog done died

[opal fossil]

i am sorry for you

[sleek egret]

don't be. she was no good and my dog bit me

[spark cobalt]

Good for you

[opal fossil]

i don't know it fell to lose you woman but i have lost my cat last year to

[sleek egret]

I got a new car

[opal fossil]

Lmao

[spark cobalt]

[opal fossil]

what type

does any one here work as a dev

[near ocean]

Is there a career question in all of this

[sleek egret]

I got a Hyundai Sonata Limited. why do you ask?

[opal fossil]

yes my so i know python and front-end bices and know i don't know should i go front-end and learn design or should i go back-end sens i know python

[sleek egret]

what's a bices?

[opal fossil]

Html, css, js

and i know python as well

[opal fossil]

nice car what do you work

[sleek egret]

work? work is for proles

[opal fossil]

what

[opal fossil]

who are proles ?

[sleek egret]

proles is short for proletariat. proletariat is a marxist term meaning the working class. the shorthand "proles" was popularized by the novel Orwell's novel "1984".

its origin is the latin "proletarius" meaning "citizen of the lowest class" (but hey, at least they were citizens and not barbarians or slaves).

[opal fossil]

cool so are you a business owner

[sleek egret]

you dare accuse me of being one of the evil capitalist exploiters?

[opal fossil]

i know about 1984 i have read books like it but i did't cear about the usssr so i did't read it

[sleek egret]

"1984" is set in england

[opal fossil]

so you are jobless

[sleek egret]

people just give me money. maybe because I'm awesome.

maybe to shut me up. I don't know.

[opal fossil]

now sour back book revies says that it talk about the ussr and how it was manged in that time

[gilded valley]

You can give more context than this. An important fact is that they owned little or no property, so on the census their children were listed in place of property - so proletarius means producer of offspring

[sleek egret]

it's about oppressive societies, not the soviet union, per se

it's set in england. the political philosophy of the government the protagonist works for is ingsoc.

[sleek egret]

indeed. it seems the word "proletarius" originated from the word "prole" which means offspring. so it has come full circle!

maybe time is, in fact, a loop and not a cube!

[opal fossil]

So you are unemployed

[sleek egret]

am I?

[opal fossil]

I mane like you money go to the rich anyway

[sleek egret]

huh?

[opal fossil]

Like that internet you use right now

[sleek egret]

yes, I am using the internet right now

[opal fossil]

or the app the you use

[opal fossil]

Who do you think own the internet company or discord

[sleek egret]

what's "the internet company"

[gritty rivet]

apparently not

[opal fossil]

You know what I mean

[sleek egret]

no, I really don't

[unique wave]

Hi

Any data scientist here??

[sleek egret]

hiya python

[opal fossil]

I had but no one answered

[gilded valley]

Probably

[unique wave]

Ok

[gritty rivet]

This one? Yes, a bunch of us active in here are working as developers

[unique wave]

What about you

[sleek egret]

are you a data scientist? do you work as a dev?

[gilded valley]

Just ask your question

[unique wave]

I am a Data scientist

[opal fossil]

do You work as a dev

[gilded valley]

In that case, you already knew the answer to your first question

[gritty rivet]

yes but why not just ask your actual question?

[sleek egret]

perhaps he's pre-vetting his sources?

[opal fossil]

Ok

[unique wave]

@gilded valley what a didn't understand what you trying to say

I*

[opal fossil]

This is my q

[gilded valley]

You asked "any data scientists here", then went on to explain that you are a data scientist

[unique wave]

Ok

Bye sorry

[sleek egret]

no, don't go!

[opal fossil]

And no answer

[sleek egret]

You should do whatever suits your skills, talents and preferences

[unique wave]

Hey can you answer my questions

[sleek egret]

yes

[unique wave]

Okay

How to count the occurrences of a particular element in the list?

But an error occurred when I tried this

Please answer

[sleek egret]

len([e for e in lst if e == 123])

[unique wave]

But an error occurred

[sleek egret]

well, that sucks

[unique wave]

Whatt

[white relic]

this is not career related, perhaps try #python-discussion or #1035199133436354600

[opal fossil]

Yah I don’t care about my skills I want what is better paying and easier to work in

[sleek egret]

being an NFL player pays pretty well

[unique wave]

Hey@sleek egret

[sleek egret]

owning a successful hedge fund pays even better

[sleek egret]

yes python?

[opal fossil]

Ok we know your just a trol can true dev answer my Q

[sleek egret]

your question is not answerable because the world doesn't work that way. your pay is not solely dependent on your job.