career-advice

[sleek egret]

long battery life, great screen. I guess the only minus is that they keyboard is sorta meh. not bad, just not great.

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, but I'm not sure about support for the M1 on packages.

[sleek egret]

well, I can't help ya there

[dreamy shadow]

A repo I saw required different requirements.txt for M1 laptops. Looked like more headache.

Also, this is a company laptop lol. No way I would get approval for a m1 macbook

[sleek egret]

approve it yourself. let me tell you a little story...

during the early days of google, there was a guy who got hired as a programmer. after he joined, he started interviewing job candidates. and made offers to like a half dozen of them. told HR that each one had been hired and please handle the appropriate paperwork.

HR did so. those have dozen started and so this guy had himself his own team. thing is, no one ever gave him permission to hire them. he just did it.

[dreamy shadow]

Bruh, what even is early days of google? 2000s? 1990s?

[sleek egret]

of course, someone eventually figured out that he didn't have the authority to hire his team. so he got fired. but the people he hired got to stay!

[dreamy shadow]

You could literally rob banks and get away with it in like pre 2010 (Not official advice of Skyglow LLC)

Oh thank god they canceled the 7:30 am meeting on Monday.

[sleek egret]

I would refuse such a meeting request

[dreamy shadow]

Technically it's 8:30 EST

[graceful mason]

i use a 5540 and it's fine as long as you make sure the fan is uncovered. buy a cheap laptop stand and put an aluminium sheet under to stop it melting your desk mat if you have one

[dreamy shadow]

I literally bought a vertical stand for it so the fans are un-obscured. Using the docking station with my own monitors. (Company provided one but I have no room lmao)
I think part of the issue is the different security crap our IT department runs in the background. I can't even put this laptop to sleep properly. Security restrictions.

I got assigned this piece of crap because it's a "workstation" tier laptop with a discrete GPU (As I'm part of Data science). Apparently the macbooks some people have don't have any of this security crap. (MacOS doesn't allow it)

[sleek egret]

yawns

[honest pivot]

At my place we have virtual Windows desktops. When I work from home, I log in via my personal PC, using a VMware client. And I get the same desktop I had at work, with all the programs open.

[agile geode]

Hello there, I'm student 😭

[spark cobalt]

At my place we have the M1s, so it's really nice.

[weary crag]

Hey, I am about to graduate high school this spring and I am looking for an internship this summer before starting my bachelors. For many job postings I meet all the technical/skill requirements (at least in my opinion :D) but they have being enrolled in a university as one of their requirements. Do you think it makes sense to message the recruiters for the position before applying to ask if they are also open to take candidates that are not enrolled in university?

Or do you think it’s better to just apply normally and hope for the best

[sleek egret]

internships are not handled through recruiters, as far as I know

companies typically have an internship program. the program typically has agreements with a few universities that they draw interns from.

if you have been accepted into a university, you should be able to leverage their internship outreach facilities

if you have not been accepted into a university, the chance of getting an "internship" is very very very low. instead you'll have to look for what's called "a job"

[weary crag]

Hm okay yea that makes sense. Problem is I am not looking for a long term job just one for maybe half a year which makes this a little hard

[sleek egret]

you need to understand that an internship is not just "a job for students". there are specific legal requirements and restrictions involved for the company. they're not onerous but they do exist. thus interns are typically not part of the normal hiring process. and MUST be enrolled at a university.

for example, an intern may be a foreigner without work permit in the US as long as they're enrolled at a university.

[weary crag]

Okay I see

[smoky quest]

It's both.
Companies would put out ads for internships but also advertise in universities/campuses

[gritty rivet]

From what I read in this channel, internships for high school students do seem to exist, but they're a bit rare and they seem to work more through personal connections then public job listings

realistically, you probably want to take whatever summer job you need and not worry that the experience isn't relevant

[spark cobalt]

There are internships that college kids aren't exactly aiming for. And these are like local community college interns, or research interns (at a college). You wouldn't do exactly the greatest work, and won't be paid well, but yeah, these are roles high schoolers would take. Have known quite a few friends that pursued these roles in HS.

Also you've asked this multiple times before lol...

[sleek egret]

TGIF

I think I'm calling it. day is over. weekend is starting as of now.

[spark cobalt]

Fairly sure I answered with the exact same thing back then

[sleek egret]

university is a waste of time and money, right?

[dreamy shadow]

Can't call it a day yet. All sides asking me for sheot at the same time.

[spark cobalt]

Idk if I've ever said that

[delicate bane]

super rip. thats basically been my week. one of the stakeholders isnt even in the office but i have the most work from them. truly tragic.

[spark cobalt]

Had a slow week this week

[sleek egret]

sorry, didn't mean to imply that you did

[dreamy shadow]

All on Tuesday too. Monday's a holiday. Maybe rip my holiday depending on what I get done in the next 3 hours.

[delicate bane]

theres literally a deadline next monday, next tuesday, and next wednesday for me. this is why i mentioned if anyone had experience moving teams lmao

[spark cobalt]

I'll probably do some work on Monday simply because I didn't do jack shit this Tuesday and Wednesday.

[dreamy shadow]

AHHH ffs, my dataset turned from 100k -> 300k after adding 2 years of claims. def something's wrong.

[delicate bane]

double check the SQL joins. thats usually where it is for me.

[dreamy shadow]

No joins, someone else pulled the data.

I lost my access to our datalake lmao. Forgot to renew ahead of time.

[delicate bane]

inb4 its their joins

[dreamy shadow]

We have to go re-request access every quarter.

Just give me access until I quit ffs.

[delicate bane]

IT access for stuff is one of many annoying things about work. i had to do that recently for access to a certain ADO project

still dont have access. will i eventually get access? who knows

[dreamy shadow]

The problem is the people who I need approval from respond in the timeline of like a WEEK

[delicate bane]

at least they respond

[dreamy shadow]

Probably going to ask my manager to go ping them. Literally it's just an email that says "approved"

[delicate bane]

thats a good idea.

[dreamy shadow]

Funny because it's only the hive access that rolled over. My presto access still exists.

Also, hive specifically it's the ODBC drivers, not hue. AND for hue it's the mf decryption function I lost access to (Which most fields are encrypted)

Me training my model with the extra data and going to pretend nothing is wrong:

[spark cobalt]

Why do you guys think companies stopped training managers? In the sense of sending them off to like a manager bootcamp or similar.

My dad used to be a manager in tech before .com crashed (then he did a career change), and he was trained. He was able to really easily explain every single managerial trick/scheme/mindset/decision to me so I could play my cards right. But it seems like a lot of managers don't have that built in, almost unethical, psychology taught to them.

I.e., fuck their family and fire them.

I mean granted, I'm approaching this on my dad's personal accounts. But wanted to see what others thought about this

[dreamy shadow]

Why doesn't X do Y? Because money

[spark cobalt]

maybe, but it really seems like a worthy investment. The next question would be, why wasn't it a good investment?

[leaden jasper]

The company I work for now and the org I worked for previously both had manager training. So I don't think I necessarily agree with the premise that companies stopped training managers.

[spark cobalt]

I see. I was seeing someone say that there was a trend of less of that happening. Maybe it's not that unprevalent as I originally thought.

[dreamy shadow]

Even if it was a good investment, it's still an investment. Stock holders say Money now > Money later.

A lot of poor business decisions can be chalked up to "Because stock holders want X"

[delicate bane]

why is this outdated system so unmaintainable and getting worse? because

why create sprints focused on refactoring code when you can create a new product

anyways something something 20% time should be built in something something

[stable elbow]

refactoring? throw some interns at it. our swes are too busy making money

[spark cobalt]

Sounds awfully ironic but yeah I see what you mean

[delicate bane]

its that quarterly earnings incentives too. but i dont think private companies fair much better right?

[stable elbow]

I think its easier to negotiate with a few private investors vs the beast that is public

[delicate bane]

thats true. depending on the investors, they might be willing to let you do things on a more long-term horizon

[stable elbow]

"few" being relative of course

[spark cobalt]

Oh my message sent in really late and really out of order

[stable elbow]

i got 4 interviews lined up this week. hopefully one of em is a bite. Although 1 of em is for the gov, and the job description doesnt make it sound great

[spark cobalt]

Good luck!

Getting to the interview in the first place is a huge step!

[delicate bane]

good luck bud. you got this. gov jobs i heard are their own category of things lol

[dreamy shadow]

Sigh, when the other Data Scientist sends you a file with the index still attached to the file.

[spark cobalt]

Lots of people are stranded with no interview Hope they're alright...

[stable elbow]

im not a fan of the gov job. they want 3 supervisory references, have the worst "tech" stack, and were the laziest in scheduling me an interview. I might just use it as an opportunity to practice.

[dreamy shadow]

Speaking of outdated systems, my manager asking me what my thoughts are on retraining models.

[spark cobalt]

Sounds about right

[dreamy shadow]

Wdym what are MY thoughts. YOU are the manager.

[spark cobalt]

Government? And lazy? Who would've thought!

[delicate bane]

the tech layoffs have hit peeps hard. i saw someones linkedin how they said they were affected by the tech layoffs and their jobs section made me lol

[stable elbow]

the other 3 are private companies, and they treated me pretty good for just scheduling the interview. And the pay, and opportunity seem better. No references needed either

[dreamy shadow]

Pay me another 40k and I'll tell you my thoughts on retraining these models.

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy shadow]

Best jobs are Gov jobs that require clearance.

[delicate bane]

at least they can laugh about it.

[spark cobalt]

He probably didn't write a single line of code either

[dreamy shadow]

Basically layoff proof from what I heard lol

[stable elbow]

damn 1 month at meta
thats a resume booster

[delicate bane]

she*. but probs onboarding stuffs only

[spark cobalt]

Just November on LinkedIn could literally mean 1 week up to a month.

[dreamy shadow]

Doesn't matter, have meta on resume.

[delicate bane]

this is true

[stable elbow]

it is true though. Its all about the HR guy

[spark cobalt]

Passing the Meta interview is pretty impressive. You had to beat over thousands of applicants.

[stable elbow]

well if you have a referral and are from an ivy league, it is probably a tad easier to get in

[dreamy shadow]

Also, DS manager throwing me actuarial based questions too. Like I'm no dictionary, wtf these questions coming from?

Crazy start of 2023. Hasn't been 2 full weeks yet.

[stable elbow]

maybe checking domain knowledge. Nice to have kinda deal.

As for me. I can explain what a p-value or random variable is. And that should be good enough!

[spark cobalt]

It's still winning over many, many candidates.

[delicate bane]

bro. what do you expect working at an insurance place lol. half the "DS" at my friends insurance company are actually former actuaries or whatever

[dreamy shadow]

To leave me alone about these 3,6,12, 36, 48, w/e the hell month valuations.

[spark cobalt]

Also it's not hard to get a referral. Meta employees are everywhere

[delicate bane]

if you worked at our company, you would be expected to have at least some clinical domain knowledge 🕯️

[spark cobalt]

Heard you can get referrals from something called Blind or some shit.

[stable elbow]

really Wilder. A girl I knew had a friend who got propositioned by palantir. The friend didnt want to work there so she connected the girl with the recruiter instead. Immediately after graduating, she's at Palantir now

[spark cobalt]

Lots of influencers do referrals for dozens to hundreds of people. And they generally work at big tech companies (how they were able to clickbait fr)

[delicate bane]

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, but I feel like clinical domain is easier to google than insurance. Like, wtf is "Struck by employee" (There's a different category for Assault/battery)

[stable elbow]

although I think that may have to do with palantirs business model of yeeting high pedigree grads to their clients as FDEs.

[delicate bane]

you would think so until you get into the mess that is our healthcare system.

[dreamy shadow]

You mean the bs videos of: "Here's me working at apple. In the morning, I take my free full catered meal. I sit on our huge ass park bench and do nothing, and then I go get lunch from some 5 star chef, etc etc"

[spark cobalt]

I keep hearing about Palantir everywhere starting like 2 days agom

[delicate bane]

is palantir still basically a government contractor or

[spark cobalt]

Nah. People like EChanTech refer people to Uber and whatnot. He does mostly interviewing stuff though.

[stable elbow]

i think they are trying to expand beyond gov for analytics.
government should still be their big money maker tho

[dreamy shadow]

Lmao, palantir stock is like 1/6th of it's original valuation. Must have been swept in the tech hype.

[spark cobalt]

I don't keep up with like, egregiously clickbait stuff

[stable elbow]

all the employees and Karp have to cash out yanno.

[spark cobalt]

Also:

[dreamy shadow]

I don't really watch youtubers that their entire personality is "I work at amazon". It's insufferable content to me.

[delicate bane]

i heard they tried to do some sort of proprietary analytics software stuff but they ended up having to have people go in and download excel files manually anyway

[spark cobalt]

Referrals are everywhere

[delicate bane]

using USBs. why? bc government.

[spark cobalt]

I'm referring some college kids to my company as well. People just have to ask...

[stable elbow]

the same girl i was referring to also worked at amazon. apparently she said she didnt do much since she was on a rather dysfunctional team. I was there as well

[spark cobalt]

Referrals are business. Do good business, it will help you in the future. 🤝

[delicate bane]

are you just contacting the HR person and sending them the referral over? someone asked for a referral for my company

[spark cobalt]

I talked directly with the manager overseeing this entire process.

[dreamy shadow]

Isn't there normally a internal form? You just put in the candidate's email

[delicate bane]

hmmm. i might have to find out who that is.

[spark cobalt]

My company is only like 200 people big, we probably don't have that.

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, out of all the fang companies. Meta and Amazon are ones I would avoid given a choice.

I heard amazon had some policy of "using less equipment", e.g. "Dont' take a monitor if you don't need one".

[spark cobalt]

The thing is he sits literally next to me. So I hear him saying stuff about past interviews and then I'm like, yo I know a kid that's a perfect fit.

[stable elbow]

the autistic kid?

[spark cobalt]

He had serious communication issues within the interview and it caused a lot of problems.

[delicate bane]

ah i found word doc with instructions. looks like i have to email one of HR's managed emails.

[spark cobalt]

It's a balance idk. Would you hire a crippled person to be a athletic coach? It doesn't make sense to, but it could violate protection laws.

[stable elbow]

fat fingered enter.
I do think that there is a focus on personality and leadership capabilities for hires in tech now. With tech reqs being a "so long as you meet the bare minimum, we good" kinda thing

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, that's why you filter them out on "not having a masters" or some other legal method lol

[spark cobalt]

We're hiring en masse, so yeah that's kind of our mindset. Don't hold us back, and you Gucci.

[spark cobalt]

, his OA was pretty mediocre apparently so ezez

[dreamy shadow]

One company I know is no longer taking H1B Visa candidates. They had like 9 viable candidates at the final round, and half were on H1B Visas. So they ended up with 4 final candidates.

[stable elbow]

what kind of OAs do ya'll do. Out of curiosity

[spark cobalt]

It's taking hours to make me an image afhfheheud. Idk what to do so bored.

[dreamy shadow]

What's OA?

[delicate bane]

yeah since peeps can pick up tech skills if they are coachable. if they are an *sshole, that makes things much tougher...

[spark cobalt]

Standard HackerRank stuff.

OA = Online Assessment

[stable elbow]

Oh yeah. So apparently writing my response in Postgres was fine. Got scheduled an interview tuesday ^^

[spark cobalt]

[delicate bane]

see? it was fine

[stable elbow]

Man. I really need to brush up on my leetcode and hackerrank. stratascratch was fine for querying, but ds and algos are killing me =p

[spark cobalt]

A good workflow helps so much.

[delicate bane]

good luck dude!

[stable elbow]

i can do fizzbuzz and parentheseses. Don't ask me for anything more than that right now lel. 😦

[delicate bane]

feel free to let us know how it goes

[spark cobalt]

I love hearing people's stories

[stable elbow]

thanks. also snagged another interview today as well. So I'm thinking the change in the resume structure really got through to HR. so thats nice

[spark cobalt]

What was the change?

[delicate bane]

oh nice!

[spark cobalt]

I love being in office and having a history book open for the past 2 hours..

[stable elbow]

pretty much heavy focus on skills. Big text for the position at the front of the page. resume is 2 pages instead of 1. really pounding tech skills. And I can sell myself when i actually get to talk to a person

essentially, making it as easy for the HR person to pick me as possible

[spark cobalt]

As long as you can talk about said skills, you're all good. Often people do this and it backfires later in the process, hope you're not one of these people.

[stable elbow]

not at all. everything i listed are things i have done

[dreamy shadow]

Ah forget it. I'll do this stuff Tuesday. Not doing any more work for friday, already 5

Also, me on tuesday: "WHY IS THERE SO MUCH STUFF TO DO"

[spark cobalt]

I shall use weeb emotes too.

[delicate bane]

my friend rec'd me this and its been a great audible listen so far (even though i dont like history ) https://www.amazon.com/Lessons-History-Will-Durant/dp/143914995X

[spark cobalt]

I'm literally reading his series right now LOL. Story of Civilization.

[delicate bane]

literally me. i was also like 'its already 5'

[dreamy shadow]

I SEE ON TEAMS, AT LIKE 3 PM: X , Y , Z Person status: (X)

[spark cobalt]

Gonna do the same. My partner in crime on my project scheduled a time slot to meet me at noon, motherfucker read my message and then went offline

[stable elbow]

seened

[delicate bane]

literally left on read

[dreamy shadow]

LOOOOOOOOOL

[sudden nymph]

hey guys, I'm in 3rd year comp sci and considering dropping out
not because of depression or anything. I just think school is a scam and I'm getting a little annoyed. I want to do 8 classes a semester to finish early, but my school is capping at 5-6. So I'm trying to go to other schools but they're making me wait whole semesters for no reason
it just seems like one big scam to me. I have a 4.0 gpa and a little bit of dev experience under my belt but I really want to do startups until 1 succeeds. Does anyone have any advice for me? I would work an entry level job job and try startups after my shift
My rationale is that if I work 2 years as a dev then by the time I would graduate from my school I'd be an intermediate dev. and very likely working in Faang (amazon). I don't really want to spend the majority of my day learning topics when I could be making money.

[delicate bane]

at our company, we at least 'react' if we've seen the message. its the only polite thing

[dreamy shadow]

Finish your degree.

[spark cobalt]

The average age for people I work with is like 40.

[dreamy shadow]

Naw, I rather have teams just show the eye icon. The whole "X LIKED YOUR WORDS" is just odd.

[spark cobalt]

Boomers. Boomers everywhere

[sudden nymph]

I can't get paid throughout my schooling because my school is 9-5ish in person. I don't know where I could find 6-12 dev hours

[dreamy shadow]

(Basically for all the actually comments) No one's going to hire a dev without a degree.

[spark cobalt]

Coming from the self taught route: finish your degree.

[stable elbow]

thats the change that my resume was for! Skipping out the neat and clean design for the boomer design

[sudden nymph]

how am I supposed to get paid after hours?

[dreamy shadow]

What, resume is black and white with dots. Everything else is WRONG.

[delicate bane]

invert the colors hehe

[spark cobalt]

Fuck it I'm like on Discord on my phone. Full on, big monitor, Discord time

[stable elbow]

mine contains navy blue. very boomer-ey

[dreamy shadow]

OH ffs, I totally forgot I had another thing i Needed to do. TO DO LIST I guess.

[spark cobalt]

DUDE SAME LOL

[stable elbow]

like solid navy blue blocks. big text

[spark cobalt]

Wait no deadass

[delicate bane]

thats not navy though

[stable elbow]

he got you there

[spark cobalt]

Is that really not navy tf

[dreamy shadow]

HR printing your resume in B/W be like:

[delicate bane]

yeah google it

[stable elbow]

bit too cheerful to be navy. just a smidge though

[dreamy shadow]

That's like, my company logo blue jesus

[spark cobalt]

This assumes you're getting a job within 6 months, which for even new grads with internships, they're struggling. (Just met a guy who has a stellar resume, Microsoft internship and Masters in CS and he applied to around 700 or so jobs with 0 responses.)

[stable elbow]

navy

[delicate bane]

oooooof thats rough

[spark cobalt]

Ok you beat me on the boomer scale. That's impressive.

[stable elbow]

thank you very much.

[dreamy shadow]

Insert emote of squidward eyes burning

[delicate bane]

im assuming microsoft didnt offer him a return offer?

[spark cobalt]

Nope. Maybe hiring freeze or something. He's really diligent, so idk.

[delicate bane]

ah gotcha. makes sense

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, market's down. When market down: Interns/new grad positions are first to go.

Technically they bring least value

[delicate bane]

has he applied to places outside of tech? like other industries/sectors? i think he might get better luck there even though pay might not be as high

[dreamy shadow]

I feel like other sectors/industries are even harder lol

[stable elbow]

Government is probably awful, but safe for recessions

[delicate bane]

ehh i dont think so. youd be surprised

[dreamy shadow]

SECURITY CLEARANCE GOV JOB BEST

[stable elbow]

Great if you have a family and wanna coast. Not for hypergrowth tho

[dreamy shadow]

Idk, I applied to some random farming companies, utilities, phone. Nothing back

I'm also just memeing the clearance. No idea if it really is good. Job descriptions + pay look decent though

[stable elbow]

You can try finding the emails of the hiring person, boss directly

[delicate bane]

ah DS positions will always be ridic. that auto-filter for Masters/PhD probs got you.

i meant more for general dev positions.

[sudden nymph]

He is clearly doing something wrong

[spark cobalt]

If you're able to be hired, then I can see the justification for taking a break. However, that is heavily reliant on what company you land + what component within the company you land. The largest things that are getting cut off, are moonshiot projects.

You don't seem like you're in the position to make a choice to be within a stable team of a company (and likely due to internal politics, they are probably shifting people in an unstable team to that stable team, or something to that extent)

It is just too risky imo. I don't see the full harm of doing an extra semester, you're able to really invest time into a better resume and better projects, and take every effort possible to increase your likelihood for when you actually job hunt. But without the degree, you set yourself back a lot.

[dreamy shadow]

Plus added benefits that no company wants to fooking sponsor clearance jobs.

[spark cobalt]

He's had his resume reviewed by like 8 separate managers or interviewers at this point, on top of like 20 other people. I just don't know

[dreamy shadow]

For Dev, I think small start-up is easiest to get in.

[stable elbow]

Who?

[dreamy shadow]

Start-up I was at had a lot of "non official" devs. One guy used to be a school teacher.

[spark cobalt]

Small startup is easiest to get in if you're willing to be cheap labor for them.

[dreamy shadow]

Yea, getting a job as main criteria*

[spark cobalt]

[spark cobalt]

Idk if you're in the Bay, but Bay Area college kids are crazy. They expect 200k TC or they refuse an offer outright without comparing and seeing if that was the best offer they could get.

[delicate bane]

yeah i agree. i was approached by a lowkey founder just for a DS position lol. he wanted more local peeps and apparently i understood a bit about ML in a constrained environment (just barely).

[stable elbow]

Startups are a hit or miss. Was sent a 2 hour assessment for ne not a couple weeks back. It was all in Google sheets and they wanted the answers in Google sheets

[spark cobalt]

Startup I landed was really poggers.

[delicate bane]

aint that the truth

[stable elbow]

So much of the stuff I could do easily. Just not in Google sheets because who the heck uses google sheets. So I'm probably not getting a callback on that

[delicate bane]

my goal tracker app may or may not use google sheets as a fake database

[sudden nymph]

he may be showing a lack of enthusiasm, or fucking up the interviews. if not that's really shitty luck

[spark cobalt]

He's not landing the interview at all is what I mean.

[delicate bane]

i would show a screenshot of it but its kinda off-topic since its not careers related

[spark cobalt]

I think they hired me was specifically because I showed I can do all the work, and I was willing to be paid less than new grads. Now people are able to rely on me and one project I have near full autonomy on it

But half the system is down, and the dude ghosted me so can't do shit

[delicate bane]

rip cassandra migration

[spark cobalt]

I have no clue how to connect my client to Jenkins and the dude sets the weirdest passwords for things.

[spark cobalt]

He's delaying that as much as possible, and so am I

[stable elbow]

It was a bunch of query and visualizations. Like ok typically I'd make a stacked bar graph easily in python,r, tableau, or powerbi. But in Google sheets? Can you even make a stacked bar graph in sheets? It was not a fun experience

[delicate bane]

bro. you should def leave if thats the case lmao

like for my use case, google sheets is fine, since its a personal app just for me to track my 2023 goals. a startup using google sheets for everything? idk man, i wouldnt want to do it but thats me.

[stable elbow]

I mean there is the caveat of unemployment, so I'd take anyone willing to teach me things

[delicate bane]

thats fair

[spark cobalt]

Rex with the high standards

[delicate bane]

and you could probably introduce improvements

[stable elbow]

Altho I am slightly pickier now after the confidence boost of 4 companies calling me in 24hrs. So...yeag

[delicate bane]

is it high standards if im also using google sheets though

[spark cobalt]

What kind of niche do you do? We're hiring hella OS/network engineers, can refer you and can get you probably employment within a couple weeks if you are in this niche.

[stable elbow]

I wish. Data analytics and data science. Goal is to transition to development for my own projects, data engineering or project management over time

[delicate bane]

data engineering is hella in demand atm

[stable elbow]

I do have app ideas and business models I want to work on, but focus is employment first.

[buoyant seal]

Project management is kind of pretty much opposite from other voiced specializations though

[stable elbow]

Data engineering is great. Definitely something I will look to build in with whichever company takes me

[delicate bane]

yeah its like 2 different directions but you kinda have to figure out what you like

like for me, i still dont know what i like

[buoyant seal]

IC = Individual contributor, thank you very much 🤣

[delicate bane]

[stable elbow]

They are very different yes, but I think if you're working to improve yourself on all facets of life: both technical and relational. The divide isn't as bad

[delicate bane]

DW you still working towards architect role for now yeah?

[spark cobalt]

Ah rip. We're getting into that in a couple of years likely... But not now :c

[delicate bane]

inb4 they ask you to deploy models.

[buoyant seal]

Indeed. This year is year of ✨ AWS magic ✨ to me. AWS networking, AWS cloud solutions, security and etc. Quite important milestone 😬 (+golang actively using xD, planning to go Java within this year)

[delicate bane]

tell me if you figure out fargate lmao

[stable elbow]

Yeah most of the companies that contacted me(minus government) are pretty big, but they are building new teams to leverage their data. Data is pretty hot right now.

Trying to squeeze in before everything starts collapsing. I want my dental insurance :p

The one I'm eyeing the most is in health insurance, because health insurance always does very well in recessions, as awful as that sounds

[dreamy shadow]

Speaking of data, anyone else read about the woman who got sued by JP Morgan for selling 4 million rows of fake customer data?

[stable elbow]

Literally was just on reddit

Hilarious though. But still. Apparently JP normally pays 40dollars per email lead? Not 40 cents? Blew my mind. And they paid even more for this fraud

[dreamy shadow]

Read it on CNBC, but yea. An entire start up created lol

[stable elbow]

I think it clarifies two good things though

Data is freaking valuable, and those in charge of money at large financial institutions are probably very boomery

[dreamy shadow]

Jp Morgan only found out after a batch of 400 emails, 70% bounced back

The cliche of "data is the new oil"

[stable elbow]

It really is

And I am biased and recognize I am biased

[dreamy shadow]

Well, for me any website that asks for data they don't need gets the Jane Doe treatment.

[stable elbow]

also as someone who has worked in O&G. lemme tell you. the environment is completely different. there are nice salaries and benefits yes, but the stagnation is heavily felt. Not a great feeling, especially if young

[dreamy shadow]

O&G?

[stable elbow]

oil and gas

[dreamy shadow]

Oh, lol. Oil trying to make as much as they can

[stable elbow]

12 hours a day. just sitting in a truck, with free food from the camp. watching movies all day. Making 1000 dollars a day in some cases.

[stark phoenix]

Recently I accepted a job with a company, my offer was sent by the CEO himself and the Head of IT was not their for negotiation. I accepted the offer because I liked the CEO very much and the work promised seemed interesting. Later after joining said company I started to notice this Head of IT was newly appointed and does not really seem to have good technical experience. Also one day this Head of IT person asked me to do a task so I said I will log it in JIRA to keep track and update and he refused for me to add it to JIRA, should I be worried that he is making do his job and not wanting anyone to know and should I report him to the CEO?

[stable elbow]

understand how you might come off. if i were you, i'd take lunches with your CEO and try to discuss who the head of IT is organically.

Don't Narc narc though. Comes off really badly

[dreamy shadow]

Ask via email why not add to jira

[stark phoenix]

I did ask the CEO once about the Head of IT and he told me he is Product Management basically but even that doesn't seem to pan out because he is not very qualified with JIRA or any kind of processes!

[stable elbow]

could be a nepotism hire. And if so, it would look really bad if you complained(not that you shouldnt if its a major concern)

[stark phoenix]

well they are not related or anything like that, I think this person has just been within the company for a while

[stable elbow]

you don't need to be related to be a nepotism hire. Friends help out friends. or however the saying goess

[stark phoenix]

I don't even think they are friends, this person has just been in the company for a while and I don't think the CEO even likes that he has this position because he CEO was also newly appointed

[dreamy shadow]

Could be board of directors

[stable elbow]

^ Regardless, I suppose you have some networking to do. (with the CEO). Understand where his head is at as best as you can before bringing your concerns to him.

also do log your tasks, even if not on jira, but like...independently

[stark phoenix]

not sure what logging tasks independently would do

[stable elbow]

if there is a confrontation or revelation or whatever. You're just covering your ass.

especially if you are doing work that is untracked and might bite into your overall performance

[stark phoenix]

Well this is why I want to talk to the CEO and get appointed to someone else!

[stable elbow]

take him to lunch then.

[stark phoenix]

I have seen this person direct work that is related to him to others. I have also seen him become very controlling and not even allow others to be included in certain slack channels even when employees wanted this person in the channel.

[stable elbow]

everyone needs to eat. and you can schedule it ahead of time

[stark phoenix]

yes well this CEO is not available in office 😒

[stable elbow]

oof. guess you can't grab a virtual lunch like you would a virtual coffee

i guess if you feel like you need to bite the bullet, then you're gonna have to do it

[stark phoenix]

What do you mean by bite the bullet? Should I just report him?

[stable elbow]

Understand the risks involved before taking a specific approach
but if it really bothers you that much, then yeah

[stark phoenix]

I am just starting to feel a little choked, I think this person is new at management and he does not know how to maintain control unless he has everything locked down.

[white relic]

he's been with the company a while, but he's new at management, he's not familiar with ticketing systems but he's the newly appointed head of IT.
Sounds like a weird situation. Dilbert principle much?

[hearty island]

someone mentioned project management

[smoky quest]

Did you ask why he thought logging the ticket on jira would not be a good idea?
Is he your manager?

[pseudo pond]

Hello, so I got a simple discord bot deployed on the cloud but how should I put it on my resume? should it be after the work experience and list down what it can do?

[true harness]

typically you would have a "Projects" section. you would talk about what you used for it, some cool concrete stats about it, maybe

[pseudo pond]

hmm, the project was simple as it is relaying server sent events and relaying it to the discord server as well as some OCR, but thanks to this project that I learn the deployment to the cloud

would that be good enough? provided that I change the wording for it

[stable elbow]

make a github pages account. slap it there. add link on resume. talk about it a bit if you want to in the projects section.

The first line of defence is HR. The HR person probably doesn't know better. So once you get past them, you can sell your personality

[pseudo pond]

oh, thanks for the idea!

[stable elbow]

also content in resume > style. Make it as boomery as possible 😛

[pseudo pond]

ah I'm going for the simple and concise resume with just some information

[stable elbow]

you'd think that. because sleek and stylish is within our values right? But thats not necessarily what the person in HR values

[pine sleet]

How worthwhile are putting discord bots on your resume? I've made a fair bit and I'm pretty decent at them but it seems like one of the least useful things to be skilled at IMO lol...

[stable elbow]

its quite ridiculous. after overhauling my resume from stylized to boomer from not getting any interviews in months. I just got my 5th interview request in the last 2 days with the boomer resume. So I'm kinda riding a high right now, and my advice may not be representative of whats real

[white relic]

IMO, anything you only link to on your resume might as well not be on there.

I don't click links on resumes, and I guarantee nobody who sees a resume before I do does.

[stable elbow]

thats what i noticed too. all the HR people i talk to didn't click it.
they just took my word for it

[pseudo pond]

I used it for learning to deploy bot to the AWS EC2, most of my experience with AWS was with serverless

[balmy spade]

I would think any highlighting the project work you've done with this community in relation to bot development would be a good choice on the resume.

[pine sleet]

Ooh, yeah. That does make it sound better than it really is lol

[peak halo]

I agree. it shows that you can use git and git-hosting platforms, set up a dev environment, and make changes within a large and ever-evolving code base.

most programmers probably never contribute to a repository with as many commits and unique contributors as the bot before their first job.

[pseudo pond]

thanks all for the advice!

[pulsar drum]

You can emphasise the impact of your work or the broader stack you worked with.

[white relic]

At the end of the day, if you don't put your discord bots on there, what's going to take up that space instead?

writing a discord bot might not be as good as 12 years senior dev experience, but it's better than something totally irrelevant like spending a summer working at sonic or w/e

the resume should be the best of you, stuff you can be proud of and showcases a variety of skills. If that includes writing a discord bot, it should definitely go on there

[pseudo pond]

I was gonna include it because it was written/improved while I'm jobless, and while also trying to study for some coursera certs. So that my period without isn't exactly blank

[pine sleet]

Thanks. I'm actually pretty proud of my bots (which is kind of embarrasing, lol) since I go all out with them. Like linting, practicing atomic commits, github workflows and sometimes even a web dashboard

[balmy spade]

Four golden signal metrics and grafana boards too? 👀

[fleet reef]

Linting is all out?

Shit, I'm a principal dev at this rate

[jagged sun]

Hello 👋

[rocky laurel]

I don’t really have anything to add I’m really new to this and I am getting into it for work I find this really helpful

[stable elbow]

Thanks. Been kinda blown away by the response so far too. Although it might be a fluke and I may never get another interview...so yeah

#navy blue

[rocky laurel]

Fair, btw do you have any advice for someone learning the program? I’m having a lot of fun learning it but I wanna make sure I don’t overlook anything because of that

[stable elbow]

Learning to program?

[rocky laurel]

Yeee

[stable elbow]

I mostly do functional programming, so I'm not sure what I could recommend would be all that useful. I do a teeny bit of leetcode just to train that analytical mindset, but other than that, I do analysis which is pretty top down. For basics, I would chomp through a textbook. Most people recommend cs50 but the homeworks are actually pretty tough.

[spark cobalt]

I learned the best by books + just getting my hands dirty with projects.

[stable elbow]

Projects are great, but the issue is knowing what projects to choose. For myself, I usually find a neat dataset or have a question that can be answered with code and take it from there

[spark cobalt]

My mantra has been kind of similar to this: Programming is just communicating to a computer. When we look at how we communicate to other humans, the fastest way we learn that is just living within that environment. It's super fucking uncomfortable at the beginning, but that's okay! Like any language, human or computer, it takes embracing it and practicing it routinely to become fluent at it.

[spark cobalt]

Oh! You're a data scientist?

[stable elbow]

And then you run into problems. I recently did an eda on Toronto crime stats cuz I was curious about catalytic converter thefts in my city. My city doesn't do open data but Toronto does. Now I'm applying ML models onto it for fun. That kinda thing. Not really that snazzy

Lel if I can get a data science job, I will take it. Right now aiming for analyst roles, but I think I can scale up if I land a good interview

[spark cobalt]

If you're trying to learn things that are more more theoretical than it is programming related like DS/AI/ML, you definitely want to cram in the theory before you invest into the programming of it.

[stable elbow]

I have looked at the githubs of data science interns at a company I'm interested in. I feel I can do it, but data science positions are kinda hard to come by right now.

[rocky laurel]

So after I finish learning the basics I wanna start doing projects
Although I don’t know what to start with

[spark cobalt]

Depends on what kind of development you want to do!

[rocky laurel]

I will definitely look into those

[spark cobalt]

It's very common to start on simple console games or similar to get more comfortable with the language.

[rocky laurel]

Thing is I’m still figuring that out

[stable elbow]

Mmhmm. I aim to build an app after I get employed. Have a nifty idea on the backburner that I wanna try marketing

As for the business model and feasibility...that's a whole different issue

[spark cobalt]

I was thinking that as well, but have no time for it . I plan to start this weekend though since it's a long weekend

8 hours of your day sapped by work is a lot

[stable elbow]

It should be a simple app to code, only issue are government regulations...and laws against tracking your downloaders...which is a whole nother ball game

Actually that's probably the biggest issue. Lel

[spark cobalt]

I see. My project idea doesn't have that issue so it's really just coding it and it's done.

[rocky laurel]

Games would be fun but honestly I do wanna learn this for work

[spark cobalt]

For me just a brushup project, not really anything I care to learn something from. Hopefully it's fast.

[stable elbow]

Yeahhh. My idea requires constant tracking of your location...and you can probably understand why there are some...legal issues with that

[spark cobalt]

If the consumer agreed to getting their location tracked 24/7, there should be no legal issues? You can start off with like a contract agreement ToS kinda thing, if they don't agree to it, don't let the app work.

[stable elbow]

Should be simple to code tho. With GPS related packages

[spark cobalt]

Game dev is notorious for having issues within its own sector.

Lower pay (comparatively), overworked, burnout, etc.

[rocky laurel]

Yeah I have heard they treated like not so good

[stable elbow]

Game devs: beaten broken and unloved. Usually the mega brains who code because they have a dream

[spark cobalt]

Just so happens that many people love building games, and they're willing to sacrifice their own mental health, WLB, pay, etc. for it. Which is beyond me honestly

[stable elbow]

Everyone needs a passion or higher calling in life. Maybe it's games

[spark cobalt]

I feel like if game devs coming in were told about this, many would back out, forcing game companies to actually invest into their devs. But then many indie companies will get fucked so idk.

[rocky laurel]

One thing that I would love to do as a person project is make a decent text to voice app pc’s

[spark cobalt]

In fact it really doesn't seem like most games are lucrative. Pricey devs = more gigafucked.

[stable elbow]

I think it's the fault of the consumer too. If people were more resilient to cash grabs, game devs might be worth more

[spark cobalt]

That sounds awfully contradictory, maybe you need to clarify.

[stable elbow]

Uhhh if people were more choosy in their product selection, investors would spend more money on devs to build a better product

[spark cobalt]

It is not a social incentive to make games. There doesn't have to be games. People just want to make games irregardless of the market signals saying to stop.

[stable elbow]

I do think the gaming market is only going to keep increasing. Especially for tough economic conditions. Gaming is the new alcohol. Easy escapism

[spark cobalt]

Sure. More people are getting connected to the internet everyday.

[stable elbow]

I know a guy who even in 2020 spent 500 a day in Naruto online of all things. He's not even top 10 leaderboard. The money is there

[spark cobalt]

If you want to build a profitable game, build a mobile game. That's the next money maker. People are finding games to be better idle activities than social media or etc.

If you're not following the money, don't expect money to come to you.

I was reading like an absurd % of mobile games make a profit.

[stable elbow]

I hate mobile games so much. It makes money yes, but awful business practice

Gotta land dem whales. Or convert players into addicts who then become whales. Or dolphins

[spark cobalt]

I'm friends with a psychologist that works literally in how to grab people's money lol for a gacha game.

[stable elbow]

The perception of competition and being better than your peers is a helluvadrug

[spark cobalt]

Hey, drugs are bad, but it's super good for our economy

[stable elbow]

Does your friend ever stop to think: maybe I'm apart of the baddies? 😛

[spark cobalt]

She knows she's part of the baddies

She's literally a victim herself

She spent like 13k on a game we used to play together

And she plays other games, and lord idk how much she spends there

[stable elbow]

Disgusting. Bet it was genshin impact...or love nikki

[spark cobalt]

Nah. Smaller gacha game.

[stable elbow]

Better not be bloody Naruto online.

[spark cobalt]

AFK Arena is the game. Not the one she works for though.

[stable elbow]

Oh god. That poor girl. And her wallet

[spark cobalt]

Game's been on a rapid decline since like 3 years ago. She started like last year

[stable elbow]

I played afk arena. The formula is so predatory and it never ends

[spark cobalt]

Ok this is getting seriously off-topic

[stable elbow]

That's fair. It's the middle of the night regardless. Anyways. I hope these next two years aren't too terrible economy wise

[spark cobalt]

It'll be a different environment than our previous decade I'm speculating.

Only reason we had such an increasing demand for the past 10 years is mostly because since VC money was dirt fucking cheap, all sorts of dumb moonshots were able to be formed.

[stable elbow]

Unemployment has yet to really rise yet. No idea what it will look like when that dam finally breaks

[spark cobalt]

But now that it isn't cheap, while tech will still grow, it'll grow much slower than it has been, and companies that ended up being poor ideas will be forced to go bankrupt.

[stable elbow]

Do you think we will see industry wide salary cuts in big tech like in the dot com bubble?

Or are the big guys too resilient for that.

[spark cobalt]

I don't think so personally. If there is, wouldn't be that huge. Less demand but same supply of engineers would make sense to have salary cuts, but at least right now most of these layoffs/budget-cuts/etc., were more of the company itself has a fundamental issue with its product, not the economy is shit.

Have to note we're in a post-pandemic. Lots of businesses meeting to the needs of COVID-era might not be useful anymore.

[stable elbow]

Literally got covid last week. Has not been post pandemic for me 😛

[spark cobalt]

Lots of stuff built for remote work. But we as a society are moving away from that.

At least as of right now, I don't think there was a company that did budget cuts for purely "oh we're in a recession". Lot of companies that did layoff but were in a healthy position did it because of bandwagon and did it to cut off their shitty employees, cut off their moonshotty projects, etc.

There was an ulterior motive. Economy was just an excuse.

When one company does a lot of layoffs, there's lot of investigation within that single company to root out the reasons for it. When 100 companies do layoffs and say it's cuz of economic reasons, everyone assumes it's cuz of economic reasons.

Tech stocks are pretty much dropping everywhere.

[stable elbow]

So I suppose that does mean that we aren't experiencing the full effects of the recession quite yet.

And I think tech was overdue for a correction anyways. What I'm concerned with is that alot of nontech is still trading pretty high up. And I can't help but wonder if it because inflation is priced in already, and the companies already sneakily dropped in value due to money being worth less...or are things still due to crash and burn...which is also very possible as people begin running out of money

[spark cobalt]

I guess all I can really say is have to wait and see. Maybe we're just at the very beginning of our recession.

[spark cobalt]

Tech was very long overdue for a correction, yes.

Primitive -> Civilization -> Industry -> Whatever comes next will be unlocked through tech. Lots of money to be made, but just where is the thing.

I'm so hungry

[stable elbow]

Probably AI. But I'm also biased

[spark cobalt]

When AI replaces our jobs, we'll get into the next phase of some kind of communism shit. But that won't happen in another like 500+ years so don't really care.

@rocky laurel I don't think he's talking about that kind of HRT

HRT is commonly used to shorten Hormone Replacement Therapy.

Take some HRT. Femby ringringring go hard.

Yes. HRT = Quant

[stable elbow]

I do envision a future where there's AI assisted everything. Would be pretty sweet...or dystopian. Probably dystopian

[spark cobalt]

I'm gonna treat myself to hell of a lot of fucking tacos tonight I'm starving.

[stable elbow]

Food truck tacos? Those are the best kind.

[spark cobalt]

Humanity will be destroyed when that happens. We'll self destruct.

[spark cobalt]

Yep. There's one that opens till 3 AM, is like a 15 minute drive but so fucking worth it. I go there so often.

I think they're open that late because they're right next to SJSU, and sate all the college late night customers.

[stable elbow]

They got the big spit with the rotating meat? And some grilled pineapple?

[spark cobalt]

Yep. The whole shabang.

[stable elbow]

Great now I want tacos

[spark cobalt]

The workers there living comfortably as hell lol. So popular...

Omg I think I destroyed my Duolingo streak. FUCK

I literally did it this morning though?!? This new Duolingo update probably fucked me over

Nvm we good

[dense tide]

@spark cobalt hello, remember me?

[spark cobalt]

No.

[dense tide]

I survived from a jerk professor class!

[spark cobalt]

Nice!

I really don't remember you, sorry about that. But hope it's been good for you

[dense tide]

however, I felt my life has been shorten a lot lol

no worries and apologies needed. I just feel grateful to you and rex.

[dense tide]

because staying up a lot...didn't have enough sleep

[spark cobalt]

Yeah feel the same here. Studying and working all the time

Most of my free time just spent here lol, kind of sad but we survivin...

[dense tide]

I didn't know you are student too. Currently, I meet a good professor but he is belong to business department not computer science. I truly feel I am more happy and enjoy to study the class even though the materials and assignments are intense. Still, a good professor makes a difference!

[spark cobalt]

Oh I remember you now. Did you ever get like a petition or some movement through? Or just braced the entire time :c

[dense tide]

lol yes!

[spark cobalt]

Nah, not a student. Never went to college in fact. Working as SWE right now, then taking like pseudo-night classes (self studying various topics) right now.

[spark cobalt]

That's sick! Hopefully something is done

[dreamy torrent]

dang thats crazy

what advice do you have for someone who cant even get a response when applying whos about to graduate in cs xd that hasnt been said 1000 times

[spark cobalt]

Right now reading Story of Civilization by Will Durant, going through Feynman's Physics lectures, and also learning Japanese.

[spark cobalt]

Idk much about your situation to really say, but I think something that lots of college students are lacking are compelling projects. Many just build "for the resume" and it doesn't make them stand out whatsoever.

[dreamy torrent]

ive got an app on the appstore that i think is pretty neat, still no dice

full front and backend, even paying for a server to host it lol

[spark cobalt]

Nice! Are you then applying to mobile development roles? Having a project that's been through the entire dev cycle is something that very few students have unfortunately.

[dense tide]

to be honest... I don't like school much... after I found out my cs department (majority professors) is hell... based on my school alumnis and seniors told me...

I feel coding should be fun without any stress....time limit etc.
just feel free to do

[spark cobalt]

Also, how many jobs have you applied to? Right now it's pretty standard to need to apply to at least a couple hundred.

[dreamy torrent]

not specially just kinda whatever is on linked in under "swe" haha, mobile development is not my main sauce but the project was import to me
a couple hundred, sheeesh

[spark cobalt]

It's a numbers game after all. If you get 1/500 of your applications get an interview, well, you need to apply to 5000 jobs to get 10 interview opportunities.

[dreamy torrent]

i better write a script in that case

[spark cobalt]

You can use online communities, I've heard a resource called blind, to get referrals and increase the chances severely.

[dense tide]

I like Feynman's Physics lectures! Good choice

[spark cobalt]

Even right now I'm referring some people (irl and online) to my company. Doing everything I can to help

Lot of in person networking you can do. Networking with LinkedIn in my experience has been a little bit fruitless.

[spark cobalt]

Lots of scripts already exist online. Just FYI.

[dreamy torrent]

the only internship i got was QA via networking haha so taht hold true

[tight blade]

Hey guys im a 11th standard students it just 6-7 month i have started python can anyone help me how can i improve my python skills

[dreamy torrent]

paid a lot (for a student) but man was it a dry job haha

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy torrent]

spent all that money on a trip and a new laptop!

[spark cobalt]

Projects.

[tight blade]

Can you give a brief info about that

[dreamy torrent]

the only way to get better is to write code, online tutorials can only get you so far. i like to think of it as an instrument, you cant learn piano by just watching people play piano.

[spark cobalt]

They're projects. Build projects, any project.

[tight blade]

Ok tq i got it

[dreamy torrent]

if you cannot comeup with a project i know a good website, gotta find it first or make a discord bot

[tight blade]

But in school they just don't teach you advance python at first

[spark cobalt]

Just do whatever you're interested in. Projects aren't always fun, you'll run into bugs that can frustrate you for prolonged periods of times, pick something that would inspire you to keep fighting through the mud.

[spark cobalt]

You can learn it yourself. There's nothing wrong with going ahead, as long as your time permits it and it doesn't effect your performanecs in other classes.

[tight blade]

Ok i will try it my self

[dense tide]

do you guys learn other programming languages such as Java, C++, etc.? my first language is python. currently, I am learning C++. I found it is quite challenging to transit between the different syntaxes and structures. Do you guys have any good advices to keep it multiple languages?

[spark cobalt]

If you have a well rounded understanding of Python's concepts, extending it to other languages should mostly be limited to learning the syntax, not struggling with the bare bones concepts.

Probably indicates that you didn't deal with classes too much in Python.

[dreamy torrent]

hey i learned python then c++, i think it is great because they are so different so then once you start picking up a 3rd... 4th.. 5th.. language they will be much easier to learn from what you learned from C++ and Python

[dense tide]

will you guys keep practicing multiple languages to prevent our memory loss by time lol?

[dreamy torrent]

Nope, I live in constant memory loss! I promise you im am very confident in Python but still google stuff 24/7! Most devs are like this

Being a good googler is part of programming

[spark cobalt]

No. It's never time efficient. Know the language good enough to be able to pick it up quickly whenever necessary.

[dreamy torrent]

is that ur dog

[spark cobalt]

Yep. Name is Echo. Is that your dog?

[dreamy torrent]

Yep, Clover!

[fleet reef]

🐶 ❓

[spark cobalt]

And you have a little leaf on your name too! How fitting

[dreamy torrent]

dog

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy torrent]

haha, yea everything he owns is green

notice i say he owns, im really his pet under his command. he might be 10 pounds but man is he demanding

[dense tide]

funny fact I want to share, do you guys know python actually is both interpter and compiler (hidden)

[spark cobalt]

From one small dog to another

[dense tide]

for us as a students,... we cannot Google during the exams lol

[dreamy torrent]

ah ya true haha

[spark cobalt]

Not really hidden, it's just one of the steps.

[dense tide]

also no cheatsheet

[dreamy torrent]

same at my school, its very out of touch haha

[spark cobalt]

Maybe a software for schools where you are in a closed environment with only access to documentation would be a good idea for startup.

[dreamy torrent]

i graduate this semester tho 🪅

[spark cobalt]

[dreamy torrent]

gotta write a compiler first for my final senior project tho

[spark cobalt]

I graduated last year. It's so fun being freeeeeeee.

[dreamy torrent]

i thought u didnt go to school

[spark cobalt]

I did go to high school

[dreamy torrent]

bruh what

[dense tide]

and python is written in C language (I thought that made it to complier)

[dreamy torrent]

how did you just graduate highschool and are working as a swe !

[spark cobalt]

Is it? I thought that was just CPython? I could be wrong, I don't know much about Python internals. Much less, any compilation theory or whatnot.

[dreamy torrent]

the python interpreter is written in C im pretty sure

[spark cobalt]

Is it standard for most languages to be written in C?

Oh according to Google it's in nearly all of them to some degree.

[dense tide]

I believe the dinosaur languages are written in other great grandfathers' languages

[dreamy torrent]

if a language is going to be written in a language its most likely gonna be C, not all the time tho

[spark cobalt]

Icic. What I miss out from not going to college

[dreamy torrent]

rust is written in rust, dont ask me how

[spark cobalt]

Need to learn about this stuff eventually....

[dense tide]

@dreamy torrent I want to know how lol

[dreamy torrent]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_(compilers)

[dense tide]

@dreamy torrent like a 3d printer prints itself lol

[dreamy torrent]

yea haha, its called bootstrapping

the language im writting is for school is for learning purposes haha so im using python to write it

some other students are using like rust and stuff, couldnt not be me i just wanna graduate

[spark cobalt]

That's pretty cool to have school projects. Would be good on your resume

[dreamy torrent]

OS are very cool

I TA for the OS class
ever heard of xv6?

[spark cobalt]

I'll ask Modmail

[dense tide]

@dreamy torrent that's a meaningful project. so, what you are going to name your future-born language?

well, please don't tell us lol keep it yourself for now

[dreamy torrent]

im thinking clover, like my dog! cloverlang

[dreamy torrent]

https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-riscv man this slow mode is pain

[spark cobalt]

Clovelang. McClovelang. McLovinlang.

[final jackal]

sounds like c lang

[spark cobalt]

Oh looks cool! Expected from MIT

[dense tide]

not yet

[spark cobalt]

Coq language Funne word

[dreamy torrent]

its a bare unix like os

it has nothing you do not need, so the idea is its a great platform to do os dev on
you can change the scheduler, create system programs, stuff like that

[spark cobalt]

Shouldn't you be studying right now

I'm reading history right now

No. I'm just interested in it.

That's like asking if I want to be unemployed.

Funnily enough, I'm learning ancient Egpyt right now

Hell if I know. Lots of Egyptian mythology was derived from Sumerian mythology.

[dreamy torrent]

like aliens built the pyramids \s

[spark cobalt]

Yes, and no. I'm moreso doing this to learn about society, moral codes, philosophy, etc. I couldn't care less about the nitty gritty shit about their religions, I only care about what religion's impact was, how it was weaponized, etc.

Just so happens that Will Durant's Story of Civilization goes through that, and neglects irrelevant specifics.

[dense tide]

I curious how they did the math precisely to calculate the weights, angles, and etc. for building the pyramids and sphinx.

[spark cobalt]

There is so much involved if we were to build it to the same quality now, we probably wouldn't be able to do it lol. It's not only the stone's cracks fitting literally perfectly with no gap, but the internals as well is fucking complicated.

[dense tide]

it's a loss of knowledge

[spark cobalt]

There is actually theories that there was a super advanced population before us, we just haven't discovered them yet. For example, a meteor strike. Not all meteor strikes destroyed Earth completely, many only targetted parts of it. Notable example is how a meteor hit the Pacific and the ocean waves went past the Mountain Range to give us Salt Lake City.

[dense tide]

they should have published their thesis lol

[dreamy torrent]

good ol slc utah

[spark cobalt]

There's also some rock wall found really deep underground in Texas or somewhere? That also makes it very easy to suggest this is possible.

Haven't really looked into the conspiracies behind this stuff too much. But yeah that's one of the more understandable ideas besides aliens.

[dense tide]

do you guys believe aliens are referring to angels or spirits?

[spark cobalt]

Maybe want to move to ot, for this.

[dense tide]

what do you mean ot?

[spark cobalt]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[dense tide]

lol

I hope you all have a peaceful day/night. I will be back later

[spark cobalt]

Cya

[smoky quest]

Rust was originally written in ocaml

[dreamy torrent]

originally

[smoky quest]

yep. It does answer the how it got to self host 🙂

[dreamy torrent]

yea haha

i wonder if you could self host without anything from the start, probably not rihgt

[smoky quest]

yeah, that would be quite difficult considering there would be so many moving pieces, no tooling, no library, etc.

[vapid jay]

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1063828819137544283

please

[gilded valley]

Don't advertise your help questions. Be patient, and if no one is helping, try adding more info to your question

[vapid jay]

ah désolé

[hearty island]

here we go yellow belt cert

[midnight birch]

guys is it worth it to start as a beginner with python?

[hearty island]

yes

[vapid jay]

hmm... this is sort of a vague question, but if you're wondering career-wise, like anything else it can be competitive to find positions but it's a promising field. python has a reputation for being "beginner-friendly" so even if you don't stick to python, it'll get your foot in the door with basic coding knowledge. hope this answers your question 🙂

[midnight birch]

any tip of how to learn coding

[vapid jay]

the internet has a lot of resources to help you. i'd start with basics (i.e. how to install things, how to update versions) and then dive into the basics. you can stick with courses online (tho i wouldn't say it's needed), or youtube videos or just searching around

[hearty island]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

thank you, damian

[midnight birch]

i started to follow freecodecamp

[hearty island]

how did my work email get a pmp cert email 💀

[white relic]

advertiser database.

[tame yarrow]

Will AI automate programming jobs? As someone starting to learn programming in hopes of getting a steady job, how should that inform how I go about learning, and what my goals are?

[white relic]

short answer: no.
you should go into a field that you find interesting. Don't worry about what the machines can do, unless what you're interested in is making them better, in which case you've got a long career ahead of you because you'll probably be retired by the time your job can be done by an AI.

[peak halo]

the programming capabilities of ChatGPT are way overhyped. I even saw a thread on r/Python today about how ChatGPT miraculously had an exact solution for a CSV concatenation problem that they thought would take all day. But CSV concatenation is a common problem, with a trivial solution in a popular library.

[tame yarrow]

my rational is at the very least, learning program could teach me the basic building blocks. and then wherever the industry goes in the future, i can adapt to that

[peak halo]

you always have to adapt in every technical field, for your entire career, forever.

[buoyant seal]

Consider chatGPT as more intellectual search over Stack Overflow at the moment. It is not replacing anything, just augments Google search capabilities of any dev if necessary

for AI to replace programmers, you need to have invention at the level equivalent to opening Hyperdrive engines to travel faster than light 😆

[peak halo]

One way to think of it is that Google does information retrieval, whereas ChatGPT does information synthesis. But it still depends on information (like code) that was created by humans.

[gilded valley]

A feasible world: The impact won't be language models hard replacing programmers, but they will increase programmer efficiency, or decrease the skill floor, such that the market value of programmers decreases significantly

If one programmer + Copilot on steroids can do the amount of work that currently takes two programmers, that's a pretty large shift

[white relic]

chatgpt is really good at making english sentences, but it has the reasoning skills of (maybe) a cat.

Which is still pretty cool, in fairness.

[tame yarrow]

chatgpt, so far, is just too predictable. it seems like a mix of articles from mayoclinic, wikipedia and psychologytoday

[gilded valley]

This just isn't true, it performs pretty well in most reasoning tasks

[white relic]

I haven't seen evidence of that.

[tame yarrow]

it is capable of more substantive conversation than 60% of people though

[gilded valley]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.legalcheek.com/2022/12/exclusive-ai-chatbot-successfully-answers-watson-glaser-test/amp/

One Google search for chatgpt reasoning

[stable elbow]

you can either use AI to do your job better and seek better opportunities, or be a boomer and try to legislate against it. Both options will probably be viable for the next few years

[sleek egret]

having played with chatgpt, I'm afraid I must agree with IntotheLair and Je Suis Latte

ChatGPT is surprisingly "smart", IMO

[gilded valley]

https://twitter.com/Afinetheorem/status/1598081835736891393?s=20&t=EUPWcCJrhiblX8aQmHdVUA

Kevin Bryan (@Afinetheorem)

I have helped run an AI-based entrepreneurship program for years, written papers on the econ of AI, and follow the field quite closely. Nonetheless, I am shocked by how good OpenAI's new chat (https://t.co/6PbtqZUziI) is. E.g., you can no longer give take-home exams/homework.

Likes

5800

Retweets

1122

Twitter · Nov 30, 2022, 10:29 PM

[white relic]

until you tell it it's wrong, and then it gets all apologetic and self-contradictory.

[sleek egret]

well sure, chatgpt doesn't even try to pretend it's human. it's biggest weakness is that it can't discern the difference between reality and fiction

but given its limitations, it's pretty groundbreaking. just imagine how good it'll be in a decade or so

[gilded valley]

No one is saying ChatGPT is perfect, but it reasons better than many teenagers and clearly reasons better than a cat

[sleek egret]

but it's not as angsty as teens or le chat noir

[sleek egret]

I have noticed that many critics seem to essentially be saying "chatgpt sucks because it's not smarter than all the smartest people on the planet combined!"

[white relic]

I don't wish to have a debate about how well cats can reason, so, ok, sure. Smarter than a cat.

[gilded valley]

Yeah, there's lots of moving goalposts. I saw a tweet thread where someone said it was useless because it only got a D on a college economics exam

[sleek egret]

lol

[gilded valley]

Just imagine the world we'd be living in if every voter could get a D on an economics exam!

[sleek egret]

bah, all economics is just lies though. amirite?

[gilded valley]

No no - just everything not said by Reagan

[sleek egret]

I like the cut of your jib, young man!

[tame yarrow]

hmmm....

[proven patrol]

Hey, I'm a student looking for an internship. So far, I have been accepted into these 3 institutions:

• My country's central bank
• My country's biggest private bank
• My country's biggest telecoms provider/ISP
  Considering that they have roughly the same pay, which one should I go for? Thanks

All these positions are in the field of data science

[stable elbow]

oh dang. 3 acceptances. I'd ask who I'd be working with and stalk them on linkedin. See who you can benefit the most from

[white relic]

whichever one sounds most interesting to you, or has better non-compensation aspects like location.

[proven patrol]

All of them requires me to move to the capital city of my country, so I guess that only leaves coworkers..?

[white relic]

did you do interviews for these internships?

[proven patrol]

Yes

[sleek egret]

you should go for the one that you want to work at

[proven patrol]

All 3 are interesting to me, so I'm finding it very hard to choose

[sleek egret]

your question is literally like asking "should I have ice cream or cake or pie for desert?"

[white relic]

well, and then what were they like? Did you have a stuffy bureaucratic interview with a single manager who asked you to reverse a linked list? A small panel of technical people who seemed like they enjoyed working together? A massive meeting where noone told you in advance what to expect?

[sleek egret]

don't take this the wrong way, but how the hell would we know what's best for you?

[proven patrol]

I can see that

[spark cobalt]

Only thing that I can think of is that government ran stuff would have less incentive to use latest technologies than a company that has the risk of failure.

But working for the government can also be lucrative within itself, probably just depends on the country.

[sleek egret]

that's a question only you can answer. one technique is to list the pros and cons. then decide.

another technique is to flip a coin and if you are hesitant of the outcome, choose the other.

[proven patrol]

The central bank was the scariest imo, guy looked kinda pissed

[sleek egret]

another technique is to just hand off responsibility to someone else (your father say) and blame him for everything that goes wrong

[white relic]

the way interviews go tells you something about how the organization works. You can think about how your interviews went and which company you feel like you would fit in best at. Interviews are not just about convincing them to hire you, it's also to convince you to work for them

[sleek egret]

that's a very western attitude

[peak halo]

I think that's less true when interviewing for ones first job.

[white relic]

if you've got 3 options though

[proven patrol]

Is an internship that important anyways? compared to an actual job?

[peak halo]

internships are very important for landing ones first job after university.

[sleek egret]

it's true that he's gotta rely on the info he's got. but what I mean is that in some cultures, companies do not try to "attract" candidates. hell, some do the opposite on the theory (half baked or not) that they only want people who are willing to jump through hoops and struggle through the mud.

[spark cobalt]

Is there an incentive to not hire someone employed by the government? Like I've seen some applications that ask if you've worked for the government....

[white relic]

and if you have the option between two companies that make you jump through hoops and drag you through the mud, and one company that just made you jump through one hoop and got your shirt a little dirty, you can pick that one.

[sleek egret]

in some places, yes. in other places, gov employment is seen as quite prestigious.

[spark cobalt]

I see

[white relic]

Or you can pick the one that has the best coffee. Point is, you've got three options, you have to be the one to pick.

[spark cobalt]

You can list out pros and cons of working in the public vs private sector and go off of that. Why not find some other SWE/DS people within the company on like LinkedIn and ask them for their opinions of working there?

[proven patrol]

I think I'll either pick the private bank or the central bank, I'll just look on other workers LinkedIns or whatever

[sleek egret]

consider this: making entry not just difficult and arduous, but downright painful and a shitty experience, is how special forces do "recruiting". they do not try to attract, they try to get people to quit.

[spark cobalt]

Hardcore mindset lol. Lots of people in the Bay that are soft ahaha...

Inethical form of management but often lucrative. Capitalizing off of desperation.

[sleek egret]

yup, there are lots of people that will be attracted to companies that say "this place tolerates no shit. everyone works their ass off. we don't believe in that work/life balance BS. if you're looking for a cushy job where you can slack, we don't want you."

[spark cobalt]

[white relic]

and that's great for them, so they would choose based on different criteria than I would

[sleek egret]

many others will think that's horrible. different strokes for different folks

also, a lot of techies don't know what they want. they'll say they want freedom then complain that the specs they get aren't detailed/clear enough.

anyway, time to go to the grocery

[ebon summit]

anyone took any bootcamps in Python? curious which ones if so

[sleek egret]

not I

[spark cobalt]

Python bootcamps for what exactly?

[ebon summit]

automation or AI

[spark cobalt]

Dunno. Avoided bootcamps personally. Anecdotally, most people I've seen really didn't like their bootcamps, some even having a college student as the mentor/or just no YOE at all, but some were able to become successful by utilizing the networking opportunities provided by those bootcamps.

From talking to a lot of bootcamp grads, it seems moreso like a high premium on relevant connections than anything else.

(Which, just talk to local developers, go to local meetups/hackathons/conferences/etc. and make connections for free.)

[ebon summit]

yeah mainly looking to become competent in python than have networking ops, was thinking bootcamp would be optimal but not sure tbh

[spark cobalt]

Is there a reason you don't want to self teach it?

[white relic]

I learned mostly from books.

[ebon summit]

yeah thinking of reading "automate the boring stuff book" or should I learn from some other source?

[spark cobalt]

That's a good start.

[white relic]

I've only read part of it but it is well regarded.

[ebon summit]

which book did you learn the most from and was most helpful?

or I heard the python docs is a good way to learn? but seems complicated to figure out how to start and navigate with that

[white relic]

The book I used when I first started learning Python is pretty out of date by now.

Automate the Boring Stuff is what I'd recommend for someone starting in 2023.

Although, they're doing a new Head First Python this year and I like those books (not everyone does)

but it won't be released until October

[buoyant seal]

I liked this book as my first Python intro

[sleek egret]

that image is disturbing

[buoyant seal]

🙂

[remote sphinx]

hey guuys

[native lantern]

what experience do you have (personal and work), what are you interested in, etc?

[remote sphinx]

i want some help i have a project in the university about jobs recommendations but i don't have a clear vu of what to do

[native lantern]

could you explain a bit

[remote sphinx]

i need to creat a program that sugg jobs depending of what the user want

[native lantern]

like imaginary jobs or real jobs

[remote sphinx]

real jobs

[native lantern]

okay - did your prof tell you about where to collect the job information from?

[remote sphinx]

i already started scraping jobs from a site called jobs times

[native lantern]

ok

[remote sphinx]

no but i choose this one if have better one tel me

[remote sphinx]

but it takes too long

[native lantern]

I mean it's not really important. We should also probably move this to a #1035199133436354600 channel

could you create a channel there? this channel is more about getting a job rather than a project that scrapes jobs

[remote sphinx]

uk

[stable elbow]

@spark cobalt mind if I dm you?

[spark cobalt]

Sure send friend req

[vapid jay]

Hello, I'm currently making 80k/y in MCOL USA as a back-end dev without a degree. I have 2 years done towards a bachelors and have the option to transfer to a top 40 university. Would it make sense to do this financially? I've met people who work at FAANG making 130k base starting, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. Any advice on how to find out how much the degree would possibly increase my income? I would like to learn more but it would prevent returning to school would most likely prevent me from buying a house until the degree is complete.

[spark cobalt]

Are the people working at FAANG making 130k base in a HCOL area?

[vapid jay]

No, in this MCOL area

[spark cobalt]

Why not try apply now?

[vapid jay]

However there's no guarantee I'll get into that job even with the BS, which is why I'm a bit wary.
Yeah I'll try that first.

[spark cobalt]

FAANG has hired people without a degree. I have a friend that was completely self taught and landed at Apple as his first job (he got an Econ degree though.)

[summer roost]

how many years of experience do you have doing backend dev at this point?

[vapid jay]

Only 6 months

[spark cobalt]

Oh...

[summer roost]

what other work experience do you have?

[vapid jay]

Nothing software development related, 2 years in a sales job

I was planning on staying here for 1 or 2 years then swapping, but now I'm considering buying a house and was trying to weigh the value of a degree because it might be worth putting off the house if the degree confers a much higher salary

[summer roost]

so then, you're somewhere around 20 years old?

[vapid jay]

24, I took a few gap years

[white relic]

A degree will continue to open doors for you throughout your career if you get it. Getting a degree will most likely mean significantly better lifetime earnings. There are always exceptions but if you're going for higher salary, my preference would be for the degree.

[spark cobalt]

At least for junior devs, Google without a degree would probably get higher pay than some junior at another company with a degree. The issue is just getting to Google to begin with, which tend to pretty much ask for a degree.

[white relic]

It might be different if you were ten years older and had a more established career already.

[spark cobalt]

And if you want to buy a house soon, college could also set yourself back financially as its not exactly free. Like I've seen some receipts of these top colleges, saw 90k a year for UPenn.

[vapid jay]

Right yeah, it's mostly balancing rent vs equity then comparing that with the cost of university and increased earnings
My issue right now is that I don't know how to estimate the increased earnings a degree would result in

Considering I already make a salary on par with some BS CS holders (if on the lower end)

[spark cobalt]

It's 2 YOE w/o degree vs 0 YOE + degree + debt. Maybe there's less upwards mobility without a degree through the course of your career, but since you also have pending things you want to do relatively soon, then idk what would be best for you.

You can also do night classes...? Get best of both worlds.

[vapid jay]

Correct and I don't expect anyone here to tell me what to do, I'm more so trying to figure out how much the degree would benefit me given my current situation so I can weigh that against alternatives

The well ranked university near me does not offer night classes and demands mandatory labs during working hours

[white relic]

It really depends on a lot. You have a good job now, but will you be able to progress upward over the next few years? If you can't move up in your current company, will you be able to get an equally good job somewhere else? These are questions that are hard to answer.

[spark cobalt]

If you use this time for 2 YOE, you're definitely in the position to move over to another company and get a better pay. Just without a degree, getting into lead positions or manager positions may be tough.

[summer roost]

I'd almost always recommend a local school with in-state tuition over something higher ranked and more expensive. The rankings of the school doesn't matter enough to be worth paying 4x as much for the education.

[spark cobalt]

I mean since it seems like you're just doing this for the degree, you can opt for online universities that offer night classes? I think those are relatively inexpensive but not sure.

Then in 2 years, you have 2 YOE, a degree, and much better set than a new grad at Google.

[white relic]

planning on staying here for 1 or 2 years then swapping
I'm sure I don't know the answer to this, but maybe someone else can chime in. 2 years of backend dev, no degree vs. BSCS and no experience, what's more likely to give better options?

[spark cobalt]

Probably a lot of bias on my end, but I do see more BSCS no exp struggling to get jobs, vs people that are already in their mid-level of career unable to find jobs.

[true harness]

that's very rare, though. if you're paying 90k, then you can definitely afford it. they compute how much you have to pay based on how much you can pay

[spark cobalt]

Does this apply to scholarships as well? Because the person I'm referencing was dirt poor (like family lived in shared apartment deal) but was able to get full ride due to her financial situation.

[true harness]

there are both need-based scholarships and merit scholarships

[spark cobalt]

Oh, never knew.

I'm assuming both because she did get into U Penn

[white relic]

Agreed, finding a job is easier if you have experience. But finding a job paying 120k (or whatever, who knows after a few more years of this inflation 🥴 ) might be harder, especially if you have a career already and pay on the low end.

[spark cobalt]

Well, one has options, the other doesn't really.

[white relic]

Personally, I don't know if I'd go for more money if I already had a job... I'm currently pursuing more education because on paper, I wouldn't be qualified for my current job if I lost it.

[spark cobalt]

Oh you're working and in college right now?

[white relic]

Applying. For an MS.

That is also different because my company is paying for it, to be fair.

[spark cobalt]

I see. I'm also in the same situation but haven't thought of like doing education for that reason.

[white relic]

I've not heard of companies sponsoring undergraduate education but it probably happens some places.

[gilded valley]

I've heard of big US banks doing it

[white relic]

It's highly situational. I have thought a lot about it over the last 4 years or so of employment but now seems like the right time.

[spark cobalt]

Maybe I'll feel that too in the future

[summer roost]

one piece of advice would be to not put too much stock in university rankings. A CS degree from any accredited university is quite valuable; the ranking of the university doesn't affect the value too much. Especially since you've already proven that you've got the skills to get hired even without the degree.

[summer roost]

Does 2 YOE count as "mid-level of career", though? I'd say that's firmly at the start of your career...

[vapid jay]

A lot of top 50 state schools are only 10-15k/year after aid or less

[white relic]

one strategy: apply to work at a university. Many offer free or deeply discounted tuition for full time employees.

[spark cobalt]

Mid-level engineer maybe, but yeah in terms of time that would be the start.

[vapid jay]

This is partially correct but their calculations take into account how much your parents make on paper until you become an independent, not how much you as an individual can actually afford

The FAFSA is an extremely flawed system and it hurts middle class people the most by assuming their parents saved or will contribute large portions of their income

Afaik it also doesn't take into account cost of living very well on a federal level
It heavily benefits people in LCOL and VLCOL because on paper they're poor even if doing ok

[vapid jay]

Good idea, I talked to someone who did this and it worked out well for them

The "sweet spot" of the fafsa not working for you is roughly 60-90k/y where you start to lose all financial aid but aren't in the upper middle class to fully bankroll your university education

For instance, at my local state university if your parents or you make under 40k/year you get free tuition for your undergrad education, however almost no one who is gainfully employed at a full time job will fit this criteria, so in reality I don't think most people benefit

(for instance someone working at an amazon warehouse in an entry level position would not fit the above income criteria)

I know this because my financial aid was decimated following a parent moving from a job paying 40k to 70k year, when they were not contributing anything to my education before or after

[spark cobalt]

My parents could've easily afforded my college but chose to not pay. And, here we are

[fluid geyser]

Hi! I just recently started a python/JavaScript tutoring service and just begin advertising it. Does anyone know some good places to start marketing?

[peak halo]

keep in mind that we don't allow advertising or soliciting for paid arrangements here, so your question (and answers to it) needs to narrowly be about where (that isn't here) one could market such a thing.

[fluid geyser]

I know, that's why I didn't advertise here. This server is very formative and I thought people here might have some ideas on where to advertise (In places.. not here)

[peak halo]

Thanks. But keep in mind that asking if "anyone is willing to become an affialte and promote" is soliciting for involvement in a for-profit thing, which is not allowed.

[fluid geyser]

Sorry, removed it..

[stark phoenix]

If someone here was hired by a company and you quickly realized that your manager has no clue what he/she is doing. What would you do?

[smoky quest]

What are the signs they have no clue what they are doing?

[stark phoenix]

They are unable to create system architecture diagrams, they do not know how to use JIRA, they are unfamiliar with software engineering processes, should I keep going?

[smoky quest]

How is the team being run so far then?

[stark phoenix]

By an external consultant.

[smoky quest]

Is the consultant about to leave?

Is the manager learning and improving?

how are the team mates reacting to that?

[buoyant seal]

Sounds like a good place to take over as main developer and architecture guy and getting best Dev experience from the top Dev position

[somber hazel]

guys how much python is required as a prerequisite for learning ML

[spark cobalt]

It's the other way around. You learn ML by learning the actual theory and math behind it first, which involves no coding.

[somber hazel]

oh ok thnx

[somber hazel]

guys i am learning ML from freecodecamp and if you guys have any better recommendation to learn it even more effectively please suggest

[spark cobalt]

Tech With Tim is not a reliable source of any technical information past the very basic levels of programming.

Probablistic Machine Learning by Kevin Murphy was a really nice read for me. I'm sure there are other great resources out there that others can pitch in as well.

[somber hazel]

oh thank you so much

[spark cobalt]

You should really try to avoid all these fake ML engineer people on Youtube. Most of their videos are comprised of using packages without explaining anything about how they work.

[somber hazel]

that was helpful info but what you had recommended was a book and i wanted to learn ML at least to the basic level as i have an internship comming near with its requirement can you please suggest any faster way to learn

[spark cobalt]

ML packages are created to speed up development for deploying various ML algorithms, etc. But to learn ML requires you to understand the underlying theory to know what algorithm to use, to know how you need to adjust various parameters, to know what parts of your data can be causing a certain unexpectancy, etc.

[somber hazel]

oh ok

[spark cobalt]

There's lots of complaints I see from senior developers to junior ML engineers who know how to code with these packages, but don't know shit about MLT. They end up being the ones causing problems.

[somber hazel]

oh ok

wilder can you please recommend any ML course

i really dont want to read book and want to prepare for my internship as early as i can

[spark cobalt]

Sounds very counterintuitive because people generally have a significantly higher reading WPM than listening WPM and books generally are more condensed in terms of knowledge than videos (from my experience.)

Andrew Ng's course on Coursera is a community classic. Went through that, it's pretty nice. But it may be hard to follow if you don't know basic linear algebra, Bayesian probability, and multivariable calculus.

[somber hazel]

oh thank you so much

[spark cobalt]

But it's also intended to be like a multi-month course. Going through a book would probably be much more efficient.

[somber hazel]

oh ok so then can you please recommend me till what part of the book must i read to be profecient in ML at a basic level

[spark cobalt]

As much as you can. It starts off with building you up on the mathematical aspects. Considering that you're already a couple years into your CS program, you can probably blow that through pretty quickly. But it's very, very worth to go through regardless.

I will say, you still would want to learn about the packages used at your company. I'm assuming you have some proficiency in programming if you were hired to begin with, so instead of courses, would recommend you just read the documentation for whatever packages are used.

[somber hazel]

oh ok

thank you so much wilder for the extremely helpful info

[brave bridge]

Tech with Tim always gives me "i know what im doing i have 30 years of experience, im 12 yeears old btw"-vibes

[hearty island]

he always makes videos when he immediately learns something

[spark cobalt]

He graduated from high school in 2018.
4 month internship at Microsoft in 2020.
Lead Software Engineer at a company with 2 employees for the past 8 months. (removed the quotes to be nice)

Higher education = Unknown

He's a lot younger than I thought lol

But the company he's at right now is like, minigames for cognitive training...? Idk

Nonetheless, very hard to take advice from him with the 50000 topics and frameworks he teaches since presumably he likely has no experience in almost all of them.

[hearty island]

4 month internship at microsoft? damn

[spark cobalt]

No return offer

Or he just found out how lucrative selling dreams to teenagers on YouTube was

[hearty island]

a lot of tech youtubers do that

[knotty hound]

hi

[hearty island]

22% of the way through my LSS yellow belt

[sweet hull]

CAN I PARTICIPATE IN GSOC THROUGH PYTHON?

[sleek egret]

what's GSOC?

[sweet hull]

Google summer of code

[sleek egret]

hola mi amigos

[brave matrix]

as a junior data engineer can I expect to have access to a VPS like an EC2 to test some scripts that require lots of memory and especially time?

[white relic]

that's strongly dependent on where you work.

[spark cobalt]

Probably depends on company and team.

I don't even work anything with the cloud, but I have access to AWS, Azure, OCI and GCP and permissions to build and do whatever I want with them.

[white relic]

at my company we have about 2 on site servers that aren't used for anthing in particular, so I can use those for testing stuff. and access to a cluster on another continent that I can use for heavier workloads that don't require low latency.

[brave matrix]

are you a junior?

[spark cobalt]

One of my projects are related to multi cloud networks, so I do do testing, but I use the API our backend team makes, never touching directly with services.

[buoyant seal]

It depends on maturity of their infrastructure and DevOps team and ecosystem.

In our company we are given access to Dev env of AWS void in access to anything else but Dev env.
Plus staging access

[white relic]

no, but the juniors on the team have access to the same stuff I do.

[spark cobalt]

I'm 4 months of experience.

[gilded valley]

generally, yes. I'm in a similar role and can spin up as much compute as I want

[brave matrix]

oh damn

[spark cobalt]

Why not ask your management? I typically always ask them for these related things.

[gilded valley]

if it's going to cost hundreds of dollars, you want to run it by someone obviously

[brave matrix]

so its reasonable for me to expect such a thing..

[buoyant seal]

Depends on their professional maturity 🙂
(Note DevOps is bleeding edge tech and highly skill requireful, not very high chance to encounter mature env)

[gilded valley]

depends - if you're at a tiny startup with 3 people, probably not

[native tide]

Hey all - just stumbled on this discord and I do apologise if this is the wrong channel but. Essentially I've not long be in a role where I am using python for data science related work. I'm really trying to just improve my entire Python experience and I was wondering if anyone had any good starting points for me to just improve and understand the core logistics a lot better. Does anyone know of some good youtube series or free material I could work off or just some general advice. Thanks all!

[spark cobalt]

The DevOps bias is immaculate and sensational but yeah prolly

[brave matrix]

I was talking to the CTO the other day about how a pain it is running scripts that take hours on my windows laptop, so he suggested that I talk to my manager so he can give me access to the AWS account, the next day I talked to him and he told me that for development they usually do everything locally with Docker

I tried explaining to him that its not very practical to run a script on my laptop that takes like ten hours, I mean I'll anayways have to turn it off when I go to work and come back, but he didnt seem like he wanted to give me access to it...

[buoyant seal]

Well, that sounds they have badly defined access management system. If it so, he would be hesitant to give access because it will grant access to too many things

Conclusion: immature lack of DevOps

[brave matrix]

I'll probably just test the script on something small and tell him that if he wants the full output he run it himself because im constantly on 100% CPU usage and im frying the new laptop they gave me.

and btw its a very big company, and there also isnt much bureaucracy either...
I dont think he really understands how long the script takes...

[buoyant seal]

What are specs of laptop?

[brave matrix]

its very possible, the company has 2k + employees, 30 of which work in tech, and as far as I know there is one guy, a systems engineer which takes care of all this stuff

altough I could be wrong, as I havent met the whole team

[buoyant seal]

Well, sounds very highly possible then.

[brave matrix]

intel i7 11th gen with 16gb of ram

[buoyant seal]

Sounds reasonably cool, pretty much good work horse to me. You are doing ML? May be u could speedup with video card it

Or may be algorithm can be rewritten to require less hardware power

[brave matrix]

its mostly IO stuff, I'm doing like 100k web requests in a couple of minutes 😅

I probably need to slow it down, but then the script is gonna take like two days

[sleek egret]

is that a lot?

[sleek egret]

have you considered slowing it down less?

[brave matrix]

in my experience yes

[brave matrix]

yeah, but as I said it will take way too long

[sleek egret]

so slow it down less so it won't take too long

[buoyant seal]

ah, that multithreading yours to which we discussed to apply coroutines for more optimized running

although if u have that much scheduled for running, it already starts like a good idea to apply message queue system

[buoyant seal]

if it can be paralleized in a good way, consider may be... using Celery on AWS SQS serverless broker which can be scaled infinfinitely on a run 😆

[vapid jay]

anyone did the coursera google python crash course?

[tiny shore]

would like to share a link to a fully functional python linkedin easy apply bot.. spent hours searching for one, and almost made my own. https://github.com/madingess/EasyApplyBot

[vapid jay]

@tiny shore what does it do?

[tiny shore]

a lot of them didn't actually work, this applies 90% of the time

[tiny shore]

it applies to linkedin easy apply jobs for you

[vapid jay]

idk if its a good idea to mass apply to jobs. maybe it would be good for jobs looking for people to automate stuff with python, but I could see it back firing... but to be fair IDK enough about linkedin job applying or python jobs

[tiny shore]

there's pros and cons to using easy apply for sure. I obviously wouldnt go around telling the recruiters I used a bot to apply. There are better methods, but this is a passive way of getting your resume out there in the system

[vapid jay]

like I said I dont know how easy apply works, but I've always heard tailoring your resume to the job posting for each job leads to better results

[tiny shore]

for sure it definitely does

if you really wanted a job you found on linkedin, I would apply directly, message the recruiter on linkedin, and not apply on linkedin lol

[vapid jay]

did you use anybody to help you build out your linkedin or use any good references?

references, like books/blogs/etc

[tiny shore]

theres tools out there that will rate your linkedin for you and provide tips. even linkedin does it

i've been trying to post more to gain some traction, I have about 1,000 followers

[vapid jay]

yeah, I suppose thats true, I just bought the book linked, Im about 30 pages in and I feel like i need the help of a professional writer

[tiny shore]

what are you looking to do? figure out a good summary?

[vapid jay]

dang thats impressive

[tiny shore]

gain recommendations? or +1s on your skills?

[runic stirrup]

wrong place

[vapid jay]

Well, I've had a few career "pivots" and I'm looking to start climbing the ladder in my new career, but I need to tie my old skills in

[tiny shore]

what job title are you after

[vapid jay]

Its complicated but I have a like 3 years until I'll be looking to actually take the jump, but im currently a information assurance manager, and I want to stay in cybersecurity management but increase my income

[tiny shore]

do you have a job title you're chasing?

[vapid jay]

im in the python discord to network/ get help with my python automation/scripting course so I can automate some of my work and secure my position

no job title specifically

no title specifically

[tiny shore]

nice, I don't know much about python and cybersec. I use python for data engineering purposes and a lot of pypi packages that help with data validation

[runic stirrup]

are you guys aware of angela yu's python course on udemy?

[vapid jay]

@runic stirrup no, but im working on the google course on coursera

[tiny shore]

once you hammer out some python fundamentals I'd recommend looking for very specific courses that help you hone in your python skills specific to that automation you want to do

[runic stirrup]

i was thinking, maybe after completing it, as a teenager if i could do freelance work to get some extra cash through python

is it possible?

[tiny shore]

it's unlikely that people will hire you because you are not 18+

[vapid jay]

@tiny shore ill send you a link to the cert im doing and you can give me your opinion

[runic stirrup]

it's got like 60+ hours of python and 5+ good projects

[true harness]

and have no other reputable qualifications

[runic stirrup]

no im 18 actually

adult teen ig

[true harness]

even then, you don't have a degree or work experience, you have no credibility

[tiny shore]

the google one? i think i've heard of it before

This one? Google IT Automation with Python Professional Certificate

[sinful spindle]

where i ask for help

[vapid jay]

yeah thats it.

[tiny shore]

That'd be a good one to take, sounds exactly like what you were after

[white relic]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[runic stirrup]

not even as a freelancer? what if i work for free on few intial gigs? yk build a rep

[vapid jay]

@runic stirrup being young the best thing you can do is work for free

[tiny shore]

i'd be more focused on getting involved with some coding groups at your age, and hitting college or a coding bootcamp

or building up a github with projects that are cool and useful to things you're interested in

[runic stirrup]

yea im joining college soon

[vapid jay]

make sure you focus on college 1st but during summers find and opensource project to contribute to

and honestly, if your going to college for computer science or programming, I doubt you'll use python

[runic stirrup]

sounds like a plan but is there really no way to earn on the side by putting in few hours per week?

[tiny shore]

get a lot of internships too and start them as soon as you can

[white relic]

that seems like a weird assumption.

[tiny shore]

I learned java in school, god that language was awful. had to write thousands of lines of code to make a calculator when in python you call a few packages and poof done

[runic stirrup]

I learned C

it'd throw an error everytime i missed a semicolon lol

python in comparison feels like cakewalk

[vapid jay]

i mean, theres plenty of ways to earn while you are in college, work-study programs, governement programs etc, but I think youll end up better off in the long run if you make cool friends and do cool projects. instead of chasing small cash early or making long term commitments. of course, everyone's situation is different and maybe youll have to find something to make cash

[tiny shore]

why do I have to follow a million steps to simply add bash to my terminal in vs code 😦

[runic stirrup]

well, the idea of making cool projects does sound fun ngl

[tiny shore]

installed git on this VM and poof git bash appeared, EZ

[spark cobalt]

You will want to invest in projects as they'll ideally make up the biggest part of your resume when applying for internships.

[tiny shore]

google python resume projects and go ham

[spark cobalt]

Or, just do projects you're interested in doing.

It's pretty noticeable who built projects for a resume and who built projects out of interest in the subject/building something they needed/etc.

[vapid jay]

i once heard that while your young the most valuable thing you have to offer is your taste in stuff, because youre apart of the new young cool generation. offering your opinion and getting knocked down taking risks while your young is valuable. also, a good piece of advice I heard was, if you want to be rich, first make someone else rich, learn by doing it for someone else who is taking on the risk

[tiny shore]

yeah a meaningful application is better than something that people have done a million times

but saying you built twitter in a weekend is also cool 😉

[runic stirrup]

im definitely taking that advice with me

[spark cobalt]

AKA cloning a repo or copying a tutorial.

Building a web app that you found a demand for, generating hundreds to thousands of MAU is far more impressive than the millionth Twitter or E-Commerce clone ever.

[tiny shore]

Well if someone doesn't understand what they said they built, that'll come out fast when people like me ask you about it in an interview 😄

[spark cobalt]

Yep.

[summer roost]

there's nothing particularly technically complex about a Twitter clone that has no users. Almost all of Twitter's complexity comes from the scale.

[spark cobalt]

If you want some inspiration, here's a freshman's projects who's in college that I'm referring to my company for our summer internships this year:

[tiny shore]

this is true

[spark cobalt]

There's like thousands of communities that would love websites helping them with some utility of some sort. Just build a website for them.

Even shitty websites like: https://afkit.faint.fun/ still generate 20k MAU simply because a resource like this was in high demand.

I don't see the whole idea of "build for resume." Why not build for yourself, build for your communities, build for x, which you can then put on resume?

Seems very lame that people would limit themselves to a "resume-good-enough" project rather than really let them explore different things.

[vapid jay]

plus, if you do something you like doing you'll be better at it, those projects seem awesome, but I think a rewrite would make it more impressive. it lacks numbers

[spark cobalt]

A rewrite for what exactly?

[tiny shore]

my resume wasnt bad but ultimately I got my 1st job through connections and some sql experience i got from school w/ no internships

[spark cobalt]

Landed my first job with a cold apply 😅

[near remnant]

I have a fullstack python project but its old and I want to make new projects. What do you guys recommend? I thought maybe trying out FastAPI for an API small project

[tiny shore]

that's awesome, my ratio of replys from cold applies is like 1:1000

[spark cobalt]

1:1000? Did you do a college degree?

[tiny shore]

suprisingly my 2nd job was through a linkedin job apply bot so theres taht

[spark cobalt]

FastAPI for small scale would be my choice.

[tiny shore]

and that was a cold apply

[spark cobalt]

Well, presumably once you have experience under your belt, applying process becomes a lot easier.

[tiny shore]

yeah i have a b.s. in comp sci and now i'm a data engineer

[near remnant]

honestly, I wouldn't want to invest into a big, very complex, project. I'm quite unmotivated after this lay off.

[spark cobalt]

Oh interesting. That's incredulously low rates.