ot2-the-original-pubsta

[rare moat]

hi

[jovial island]

ayo wssup

[rare moat]

#include <unistd.h>

int main(void) {
    int child_pid = fork();

    if(child_pid == 0) {
        /* Code that runs in the child process */
    } else {
        /* Code that runs in the parent process */
    }

    return 0;
}

so building off this example.

if we wanted to, say, run the ls command in the subprocess, we would do:

[jovial island]

subprocess.run("ls")

[rare moat]

execl("/usr/bin/ls", "/usr/bin/ls", ".", "-a");

[jovial island]

do we need to put the path?

[rare moat]

yes, the first argument is the path to the binary.

everything after that are the command line arguments you read in argv.

[jovial island]

but its possible to write ls -a too right

[rare moat]

no you need to separate it across strings.

[jovial island]

hmm

so can you give an example for

start chrome

[rare moat]

if you want to write the command on its own you can just throw it as a string into /bin/bash or whatever your shell is haha

[native cobalt]

Oh, so the first argument tells the location of the thing to run, while the 2nd arg and onward is the actual command to execute along with any arguments?

[rare moat]

yup

[native cobalt]

MY BRAIN IS EXPANDING.

[jovial island]

.

[jovial island]

whispers

[rare moat]

do keep in mind to put the binary as the first command line argument though haha.

[jovial island]

hello?

[rare moat]

this is what i get when printing sys.argv.

as for starting chrome.

it depends what platform you are on.

[jovial island]

uhm are you just skipping what i asked or are you not reading a word of what i am saying

[jovial island]

just windows

[rare moat]

if you are on Windows none of this will apply to you unfortunately.

[jovial island]

why did you not say it in the beginning

[rare moat]

i assumed you were on Linux haha sorry

fork, exec*, and pipe, are POSIX functions.

if you have something like WSL you should be able to use them though..

[jovial island]

just leaves because of a trauma people gave...

[rare moat]

trauma?

[native cobalt]

Hmm, is there no windows equivalent?

[jovial island]

yeah

need it for windows

[rare moat]

Windows does have their own interfaces for creating processes.

[jovial island]

and i got traumatized because i am trying to fix it for days

[rare moat]

hold on

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/processthreadsapi/nf-processthreadsapi-createprocessa

this exists

i am not sure how to use it though hehe.

[jovial island]

i need to use smth like subprocess.run in c++

[rare moat]

i think someone mentioned that Boost has interfaces for it.

[jovial island]

is this what i am searching for

is it c++

[rare moat]

they have a C++ example yes.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/procthread/creating-processes

[native cobalt]

the real question is if it's malbolge
asking for a friend

[jovial island]

can you try to make an basic example with start chrome,i did not understand a word of the creating processes thing

[rare moat]

asking for a friend
...sure.

[rare moat]

i have no clue how to use C++ sorry haha

i am a C guy.

[jovial island]

.... ok

no prob

[native cobalt]

all I know is that there's an endl thing

Why is that there

[jovial island]

BOOL CreateProcessA(
[in, optional] LPCSTR lpApplicationName,
[in, out, optional] LPSTR lpCommandLine,
[in, optional] LPSECURITY_ATTRIBUTES lpProcessAttributes,
[in, optional] LPSECURITY_ATTRIBUTES lpThreadAttributes,
[in] BOOL bInheritHandles,
[in] DWORD dwCreationFlags,
[in, optional] LPVOID lpEnvironment,
[in, optional] LPCSTR lpCurrentDirectory,
[in] LPSTARTUPINFOA lpStartupInfo,
[out] LPPROCESS_INFORMATION lpProcessInformation
);

[native cobalt]

why not "\n"

[jovial island]

anyway you can maybe help a little

[jovial island]

it is like c a bit

[rare moat]

apparently std::endl will flush the stdout?

[native cobalt]

oh?

[rare moat]

apparently....? that is just what i have heard haha

[native cobalt]

But I don't want to flush it until the end of execution?

[jovial island]

uhm pls

[native cobalt]

What?

So unnecessarily complicated.

[rare moat]

C++ moment

fun use of fork and pipe for any passerbys looking at this conversation:

size_t extract_error_cb(void (*callback)(), size_t length, char *buffer) {
    int pipes[2] = {0};
    pid_t process_id = -1;

    memset(buffer, 0, length);

    pipe(pipes);
    process_id = fork();

    if(process_id == 0) {
        dup2(pipes[1], STDERR_FILENO);
        callback();
        exit(0);
    }

    return read(pipes[0], buffer, length);
}

extracting error messages spat out by a function on the stderr.

[jovial island]

hey

[rare moat]

hi

yeah uh

i have. zero clue what that is haha.

[jovial island]

you going to help out or nah

[rare moat]

i cannot

[jovial island]

this

why

[rare moat]

all i know is that it is some function call.

you should join a C++ server and see what they say.

all i know is that it is a function call, and this is probably the path to the program to execute.

[native cobalt]

So, what about the other exec* funcs?
Like execv and what not

[rare moat]

execv accepts command line arguments in the form of an array of strings.

so:

char *arguments[] = {"/usr/bin/ls", ".", "-a", NULL};

execv("/usr/bin/ls", arguments);

[native cobalt]

ah, so it's all just variations on execl?

[rare moat]

execvp.. i have no clue. it looks identical to execv except for the change in argument names..

[rare moat]

pretty much, yeah haha.

[native cobalt]

Oh, well.
The more you know™️

[rare moat]

people looking at my C code

[native cobalt]

lmao

I'm rather happy I've learned fork() and exec*()

You still haven't talked about pipe(), but I know how piping works
Just not the implementation

[rare moat]

ooo boy pipes

#include <unistd.h>

int main(void) {
    int pipes[2] = {0};

    pipe(pipes);

    return 0;
}

basically, pipe creates two new pipes. one is a 'read' pipe, and one is a 'write' pipe.

which is which? i always forget let me see the manual page.

[native cobalt]

lmao

man moment

[rare moat]

pipes[0] is the read end, pipes[1] is the write end.

using this, you can communicate between a child process and a parent process for as long as the child process exists.

so if i wanted to send some stuff to a parent process:

[native cobalt]

Ohhh this is such cool shit

[rare moat]

#include <stdio.h>
#include <unistd.h>

int main(void) {
    int pipes[2] = {0};
    pipe(pipes);

    if(fork() == 0) {
        write(pipes[1], "foobar", 7);
    } else {
        char buffer[256] = {0};

        read(pipes[0], buffer, 256);
        printf("%s\n", buffer);
    }

    return 0;
}

and boom

[native cobalt]

you want seven bytes on that write() call

[rare moat]

child to parent communication.

right yeah

[native cobalt]

But this is snazzy af

[rare moat]

and so this is how Bash works. =D

[native cobalt]

thank you smoke pipe

[rare moat]

nope problem

🥴

[native cobalt]

mild aneurysm, don't mind me

[rare moat]

you can never be forgiven

[native cobalt]

[rare moat]

you can do all of this in Python by the way.

!d os.fork

[clever salmon]

os.fork

os.fork()```
Fork a child process. Return `0` in the child and the child’s process id in the parent. If an error occurs [`OSError`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html#OSError "OSError") is raised.

Note that some platforms including FreeBSD <= 6.3 and Cygwin have known issues when using `fork()` from a thread.

Raises an [auditing event](https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#auditing) `os.fork` with no arguments.

Changed in version 3.8: Calling `fork()` in a subinterpreter is no longer supported ([`RuntimeError`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html#RuntimeError "RuntimeError") is raised).

Warning

See [`ssl`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/ssl.html#module-ssl "ssl: TLS/SSL wrapper for socket objects") for applications that use the SSL module with fork()...

[native cobalt]

thanks fork

[rare moat]

!d os.pipe

[clever salmon]

os.pipe

os.pipe()```
Create a pipe. Return a pair of file descriptors `(r, w)` usable for reading and writing, respectively. The new file descriptor is [non-inheritable](https://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#fd-inheritance).

[Availability](https://docs.python.org/3/library/intro.html#availability): Unix, Windows.

Changed in version 3.4: The new file descriptors are now non-inheritable.

[native cobalt]

thanks pipe

[rare moat]

🦀

[native cobalt]

and then fucking exec()

[rare moat]

!d os.execv

[clever salmon]

os.execv

os.execv(path, args)``````py

os.execve(path, args, env)``````py

os.execvp(file, args)```
These functions all execute a new program, replacing the current process; they do not return. On Unix, the new executable is loaded into the current process, and will have the same process id as the caller. Errors will be reported as [`OSError`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html#OSError "OSError") exceptions.

The current process is replaced immediately. Open file objects and descriptors are not flushed, so if there may be data buffered on these open files, you should flush them using `sys.stdout.flush()` or [`os.fsync()`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#os.fsync "os.fsync") before calling an [`exec*`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#os.execl "os.execl") function.

[rare moat]

oh okay good

[native cobalt]

there we go

!d exec

[clever salmon]

exec

exec(object[, globals[, locals]])```
This function supports dynamic execution of Python code. *object* must be either a string or a code object. If it is a string, the string is parsed as a suite of Python statements which is then executed (unless a syntax error occurs). [1](https://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#id2) If it is a code object, it is simply executed. In all cases, the code that’s executed is expected to be valid as file input (see the section [File input](https://docs.python.org/3/reference/toplevel_components.html#file-input) in the Reference Manual). Be aware that the [`nonlocal`](https://docs.python.org/3/reference/simple_stmts.html#nonlocal), [`yield`](https://docs.python.org/3/reference/simple_stmts.html#yield), and [`return`](https://docs.python.org/3/reference/simple_stmts.html#return) statements may not be used outside of function definitions even within the context of code passed to the [`exec()`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#exec "exec") function. The return value is `None`.

Similar names: 2to3fixer.exec

[native cobalt]

ah, you little shit
You're not the right one

[rare moat]

maybe we should make it replace the process image. :^)

[native cobalt]

maybe we should annihilate it entirely

[rare moat]

i have a New Emoji.

[native cobalt]

I did

[rare moat]

i love these

[native cobalt]

mf got a square in stocking for christmas

[rare moat]

jazz

Winter Coffee Shop Bookstore Ambience with Relaxing Smooth Jazz Music and Crackling Fireplace

i want #python-discussion ambience.

[native cobalt]

That sounds like 5 people asking questions to you at the same time

[rare moat]

we should transcribe messages from #python-discussion, convert them into audio with text to speech

[native cobalt]

[rare moat]

then put it on YouTube as ASMR coffee shop ambiance.

[native cobalt]

1 hour of Python Gen

[rare moat]

1 hour of suffering

[native cobalt]

That would be fun ngl
But that means you'd need an hours worth of suffering

[rare moat]

a small price to pay for lolz

[native cobalt]

Reality is often pricy

[rare moat]

you do not know what i will do for internet clout.

[native cobalt]

for the silver award cheddar cheese.

[rare moat]

is that the cheese with holes in it

WAIT

[native cobalt]

no, that's swiss cheese

[rare moat]

WHY DOES SWISS CHEESE HAVE HOLES IN IT

???

[native cobalt]

cheddar cheese is the tiny sliced ones

[rare moat]

you mean the stuff made out of plastic?

[native cobalt]

yeah those

[jovial island]

whispers : ..... hey 8 ball

[native cobalt]

no nononono

[rare moat]

hi

[native cobalt]

that's american

[jovial island]

so i wanted to ask wath the most basic fork command was

[rare moat]

are you implying there is a difference between american cheese and whatever place cheese

[jovial island]

to start chrome for example

the most basic one

[native cobalt]

cheddar

americano is that one you posted earlier

cheddar get sliced into thin slivers

[rare moat]

O_o

are you a cheese connesiour

[jovial island]

ok,skipping is good

have a nice day

[rare moat]

[native cobalt]

mayhaps

[rare moat]

i did not respond for like 10 seconds

patience please

[native cobalt]

We don't need that rudeness here.

[rare moat]

wuh

did they tell me to go fuck myself or something

[jovial island]

if you are that dirty minded?

[jovial island]

its a him not they or them

f... they or them

[rare moat]

alright, i did not know your prono-

wuh

[jovial island]

just him/she

[rare moat]

oooh boy.

alright

[jovial island]

what is prono-

[rare moat]

i did not know your pronouns.

[native cobalt]

<@&831776746206265384> Could you come down please?

[jovial island]

i mean this is the correct one,in the world we only have him/her

[rare moat]

sigh.

[jovial island]

and i am a him

[rare moat]

i am going to regret this in the next hour.

[jovial island]

why? is there a problem young man?

[rare moat]

Dev is a girl.

[native cobalt]

I am a woman.

[rare moat]

alright. no. the English language has quite a few pronouns. 'they' has always been singular and plural.

[jovial island]

is there a problem young girl?

why the mods

[jovial island]

they meant to be fore a few people not just one

[rare moat]

am i really about to argue about this

guess i am

[native cobalt]

No need to.

[jovial island]

the lgbtqstryquiey18272817x29923+ claimed the word them/they

[rare moat]

oh for fucks sake

[native cobalt]

We're not here for that.

[jovial island]

++2022 x290127

[rare moat]

next thing you know he is going to call them the alphabet people.

@_@

why do i try

[jovial island]

they are claiming the whole alphabet for themselves

lol

[rare moat]

that is not how language works.

[jovial island]

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz LGTBQCSX_2022++

[native cobalt]

I just ask that you don't say anything that may start an argument. @rare moat

[rare moat]

alrighty

[jovial island]

THE MODEL OF THAT PEOPLE:) SHINING AND STUFF:)

[native cobalt]

Walk away if you have to.

[jovial island]

WALK? calls the police for using illegal words

[daring jay]

Can we please calm down here? they/them can be used as gender neutral singular pronouns, and has been used as such for a very long time.

[rare moat]

NOOOO MY COFFEE SHOP AMBIANCE STOPPED

[jovial island]

No Not MR INCREDIBLE:)

there is only him/her in this great world:)

lol

[rare moat]

Dawn you know what to do

[jovial island]

i am calm already

[jovial island]

call BEGULA

did you guys read the terms and service and the license of agreement?

[jovial island]

from DISCORD

uhh hello my names jeff

dawn you making a story bout long time ago or nah?

[daring jay]

!mute 916414250027716618 3h Please take a break. Other pronouns do exist, and in this server, we accept that.

[rare moat]

[clever salmon]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @jovial island until <t:1641433402:f> (2 hours and 59 minutes).

[native cobalt]

Anyway, about cheese.

[daring jay]

Please don't.

[rare moat]

🧀

what the fuck

now that is cursed

[native cobalt]

swiss cheesed duck

No, it's beautiful

[rare moat]

who made these

i need to have a word with them

[native cobalt]

good people

[daring jay]

if I had to guess, fix

[native cobalt]

you do not need to have a word with them

[daring jay]

he makes some amazing duckies

like

[rare moat]

does he like ducks

[native cobalt]

cough cough the leather one @daring jay

[rare moat]

the What.

[native cobalt]

Ahh... good times.

Anyway, this is the cheese i was talking about

da cheddah

[rare moat]

is this one made out of plastic

[native cobalt]

depends if the large block it was shaved from was made out of plastic

generally, no

american cheese is the plastic-y one

[daring jay]

I have no idea what you mean.

[rare moat]

people unironically think that the sliced and packaged cheese is made of plastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIU0hwaiAG8

[daring jay]

Are you referring to a fix ducky?

[native cobalt]

Really? He's posted it like one billion times!

[rare moat]

[native cobalt]

oil is easier to get than cows

[rare moat]

this is sadly true

i am going to eat oil cow

[native cobalt]

I am going to cause a spill in the gulf of mexico

[rare moat]

wait if i ate plastic would i be eating oil

[native cobalt]

processed oil, yeah

[rare moat]

will that have any adverse health effects

like death

[native cobalt]

in large enough doses

I've seen people accidentally bite plastic off the wrapping and live

[daring jay]

this is why you don't heat food in plastic containers, kids

[rare moat]

will it explode?

or just.. melt.

[native cobalt]

Melt

[rare moat]

this sounds like a job for the legendary show 'Can you microwave it?'

if any of you remember that you get veteran points

[native cobalt]

You can microwave it, it'll just be all stringy and loose by the time it's done

Yeah, I was contestant-

[native cobalt]

My dumbass microwaved a popcorn bag with the plastic wrapping still on

[rare moat]

353 episodes of microwaving random shit in a microwave.

[rare moat]

how did that go

[native cobalt]

The plastic was stuck to the dish for 2 weeks

[rare moat]

this should answer all my questions

[native cobalt]

microwaving my bic lighter
*nearly died*

[rare moat]

uuo

[native cobalt]

microwaving fire is a vibe I cannot explain

[rare moat]

i wonder how much property damage this can cause.

[rare moat]

ever microwaved grapes?

you can make plasma apparently.

[native cobalt]

really?

[rare moat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGX289yjew8

[native cobalt]

I heard you can do that with other stuff as well

[rare moat]

yeah go try it

[native cobalt]

Yeah hold on, lemme go get my grapes and recreate a small portion of the sun in my microwave

[rare moat]

make plasma in a horribly sealed container that can definitely survive such conditions.

what could go wrong

the person on the internet did it

it must be sage

safe

[native cobalt]

next thing you know i can microwave my iphone

and have it charge

[rare moat]

or Bend It

or FUCKING DRILL THROUGH IT.

for the headphone jack

[native cobalt]

fr that was the funniest shit

[rare moat]

why did people do that

[native cobalt]

impressionable americans

[rare moat]

the american dream

[native cobalt]

the american dream is spending 1300 on 2 phones because you broke the first one getting your 3.5 audio jack back

[rare moat]

can you imagine telling that to your insurance provider

'so how did your phone break?'

[native cobalt]

"and why did your phone break?"
"drilled."
"d-drilled? what maniac drills a phone?"
"me. I'm that maniac"

[rare moat]

'yeah so i took a 3 inch drill bit and shoved it through my iphone 6 because 4chan told me to.'

[native cobalt]

/b/ never lies

[rare moat]

honestly it just seems like natural selection to me.

it is just a matter of time until someone does something actually ill- OH WAIT.

[vague shadow]

it's how the new iPhone charges

[native cobalt]

natural selection of the gullibles

[vague shadow]

similar to microwave

[rare moat]

micro wave.

radio Waves.

[native cobalt]

nah mate, you bend your iphone and the kinetic energy charges the battery

[rare moat]

like one of those wrist light things you put on during Halloween.

glow sticks

[native cobalt]

snap that shit like a twix bar

[rare moat]

how do those work

[native cobalt]

the glow sticks?

[rare moat]

yeah

[native cobalt]

so, there's a solution in the stick
and when you break it, a chemical releases from an inner tube that reacts with the solution and floreses

Pretty sure that's how it goes

[rare moat]

and you know this off heart

[native cobalt]

because I remember the least useful things

forgot how to do my taxes,
but I know there's a place in texas called Texarkana

it's... a portmanteau of texas and arkansas

[rare moat]

who thought that was a good idea

[native cobalt]

texans

[rare moat]

right i guess it really does not need any further clarification does it.

[native cobalt]

texans thought it was a good idea

nah

Unless I dunno, maybe it was a compromise

maybe the town was half texas and half arkansas and they settled on Texarkana, Texas

Instead of Texas, Texas

or... Arkansas, Texas

[rare moat]

alaska

[native cobalt]

alaska, texas

[rare moat]

anyway, it was nice chatting

i have to Go

wow that was abru[pt

[native cobalt]

Ya don't say

[rare moat]

lmao

cya

[native cobalt]

but yeah, later goo

[real forum]

It was disabled for a reason

Idk if it still is, but it used to be the most active topical channel in this discord, and with that came a lot of spammers. Along with reaction spamming, there were times where inappropriate emojis were used, and so they were subsequently disabled.

[next otter]

Hello could anyone give opinion on these notebook which is better

[digital bane]

i7 and 16 gb plus RTX3060...that is an upgrade for my current i7. I suggest it

[rocky nebula]

sad, ok

[next otter]

Is the notebook burn when running a game ? and how long is the battery last ? I will use for coding and making a game

[digital bane]

Lol probably 30 min and really hot played with an ROG ...not mine ...best to play plugged and notebook on desk...Good gaming laptops can be bulky and heavy too...

Battery will last longer if not playing a game of course lol. And battery life deteriorates with time

ASUS tend to have good after sales service. Dont overlook that too

[next otter]

Ohh i see thankyou

[median blade]

watch reviews

[rocky nebula]

i hate it when bot reviewer review my bot when replit hav error

[cyan stone]

@jovial island can v talk here?

[covert plinth]

anyone can help me extracting exe file?

[cyan stone]

umm alt+ e

[covert plinth]

doesnt work

[jovial island]

yes?

[versed shuttle]

Better? The i7 with 3060 probably is your best bet

If your looking for work and no games then still get the i7 one even though the cpu is slightly slower. 16gb ram is much better than 8

[thorny pivot]

i have a question

[smoky spindle]

dup

[heady frost]

ouch.thank you so much. i had no chance to comprehend that without your help

[small coral]

@jovial island here

[jovial island]

yo

[small coral]

Here

So what distro u use?

[jovial island]

arch

gonna switch to either gentoo or LFS soon

[small coral]

Gentoo nice

https://c.tenor.com/cKqBG8cZ8MYAAAAM/jarvis-linux.gif

Lol

[jovial island]

lmao

[smoky spindle]

hey yo

[smoky spindle]

jarvis is like python on steroids

[small coral]

Hmm

[sinful sun]

If jarvis existed in the real world it would definitely not be written in python

[odd sphinx]

lol

[hazy laurel]

my condolences

I'll never understand what merit people see in those distros

if you can consider LFS a distro instead of a masochistic hobby project, I guess

[jovial island]

how much are those

cause their realistic value would be 700-800€ brand new

[jovial island]

???????

[round moss]

you need global thisnumber

otherwise it is a local variable

and as such, you are reading a local variable before you assign to it

[jovial island]

oh, alright

thank you

[jovial island]

how are you guys with flutter?

[jovial island]

scared

[civic plank]

ik it's growing. But I'd rather stick with react native

[median blade]

use it regularly

[jovial island]

It gives satisfaction, and a new neofetch logo, which is enough for me

[hazy laurel]

wat

[jovial island]

Wat

[odd sphinx]

so epic

[daring jay]

you could just custom set the logo

you could set it to a picture of your face if you wanted

[jovial island]

Ik that, but it doesn't give the same feeling

Listen I just like to waste my time distro hopping, it's just fun

[patent goblet]

i putted my phone on charge but forgetted to turn the switch on for 5 hours
ooof 🤣 i am not kidding

[fluid plank]

hobbies

like

why are u gambl-- i mean playing genshin

[jade bolt]

@hazy laurel should i gamble my wishes now or should i wait till feb?

[hazy laurel]

idk

if you want Xiao or Shenhe more than Zhongli or Ganyu then no

[jovial island]

a guy is charging 20$ dollars to reinstall windows 10

looks too expensive

[hazy laurel]

that's $20 too much

I carry around a Windows 11 ISO with me just cause, I'd not charge anyone just to borrow a stinky USB

[jovial island]

you can download it for free?

[hazy laurel]

Yes, but you'll need a license to activate it

most modern computers that shipped with Windows will store the license on the motherboard

if you're reinstalling, you'll probably already have a license that'll get activated automatically

[jovial island]

thanks my dude

[fluid plank]

no thanks

[frigid pollen]

@pure sentinel I love Devon Rexes. A friend has one.

[pure sentinel]

Best cat!

Also, well spotted

[tired ocean]

Just scam

[carmine herald]

nah that sounds like getting paid to do a job whats wrong with that?
being paid for ownership of capital is where ppl should go "wtf this is bad?"

[blissful coral]

might be - its the most used language for AI research

[mystic bone]

hi

the phrase Available in any color, as long as its white or black. is missing an apostrophe, right?

[daring jay]

yes

[mystic bone]

ok good

[daring jay]

"its" in this case represents "it is"

[mystic bone]

yeah

[daring jay]

and since it's a contraction, you need an apostrophe to compensate for the missing letters

[mystic bone]

i found this on a product page

like big product

$300

and this was in big letters oof

just wanted to make sure i wasn't insane

[ornate scroll]

they should give you a product for free for catching that error

:P

[mystic bone]

here's hoping 🤞

[daring jay]

if I would happen to want to learn OCaml, how would I go about doing so?

[real forum]

You don't

Ocaml learns you

[wheat rock]

ocaml tutorials?

https://ocaml.org/learn/tutorials/

[daring jay]

tyty

[limber pollen]

https://dev.realworldocaml.org/ is on par with the Rust book

[daring jay]

tysm

I shall be sure to take a read

[limber pollen]

I didn't even realise how many the chapters are

They're not a lot, but it says something about how simple the language is

[young raft]

How many more variants do you think we’re going to go through before it becomes endemic like the flu?

[dusky cliff]

nice

[gentle shore]

Hey mod

is this name valid? チャラ98

[dusky cliff]

yes

[gentle shore]

Thanks

[shrewd lance]

ur not based

[small coral]

Ayy

[jade bolt]

:(

[shrewd lance]

this is the discord message that will get me cancelled in 10 years when I'm wildly popular

this one comment will cost me my entire career

[hazy laurel]

yes.

[jade bolt]

this message will disappear if you pay me $10,000

[dusky cliff]

this message will disappear if you pay me $9,999

[shrewd lance]

hsp is making bank with his mod privilege

[digital bane]

Lol ask for Etherium or bitcoin

[fluid plank]

nope

best render. just take a screenshot

no need for that

[fluid plank]

pay me your life

[dusky cliff]

no

[fluid plank]

or become my wife

[dusky cliff]

smooth

[jovial island]

with great power comes great responsibility

[wheat rock]

what about we have a deal

[digital bane]

I want that pizza power lol

[wheat rock]

take keqing for shogun 🛐

[jade bolt]

:(

[hazy laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/french-bulldog-frenchie-cute-eating-gif-13756097

[fluid plank]

just waste your monthly salary on gambl-- i mean gacha

[jade bolt]

just create a new account and hack spiral abyss

[jovial island]

Is that Chinese, Korean or Japanese?

Korean

[jovial island]

You are Korean?

Yes

Ahhh, so me in an alternate universe with blue PFP is Korean xD.

Yes thats right

[jovial island]

Am I smart in the alternate universe?

yes, how did you know?

[jovial island]

Oh wow.

I know that because I am stoopid in real life

And have heard that people are like totally opposite in their alternate universe form.

[jade bolt]

arent those japanese?

those characters doesnt look very korean

!charinfo チャラ98

[clever salmon]

You are not allowed to use that command here. Please use the #bot-commands channel instead.

[jade bolt]

@jovial island according to !charinfo
those characters are katakana which is japanese 🥴

[jovial island]

I see.

@jovial island Bro, why lie to me¿

[jovial island]

because I'm stupid and have fear of how good programmer I can become

[gentle shore]

Japanese

[hollow heart]

it's not koreannnnnn

korean would be 챠라98

[wheat rock]

aph's time to shine

nvm its japanese

lol

[jade bolt]

interesting. after reverse translating your name for three times returns "Character 98", which is "b"

[jade bolt]

chinese characters are more complicated

japanese characters are rounder

korean characters are like legos

[jovial island]

I'm disappointed that tenor has no rush e GIF.

[gentle shore]

Amazing fact ahp

[jovial island]

hi is anyone here good with c++

[wicked hollow]

yes! 🙂

[jovial island]

is there anyway to iterate through datatypes in c++ by changing a character in the name your calling

for example if you have a bunch of arrays called line1, line2, line3, etc

is there a way to just use a for loop to change the last char

[wicked hollow]

you can do that with macros, though usage of macros is generally discouraged.

[jovial island]

kinda unrealistic but would make my life a lot easier

ohh

so i should use it?

shouldnt*

[wicked hollow]

🤷

"discouraged" doesn't mean "never", so much as that it's error prone and not usually a good idea.

[jovial island]

arcade is very cool omg

[wicked hollow]

it'd most likely be better to create a data structure that is an array of pointers to your original arrays, and then iterate over that data structure

[jovial island]

so im currently making a dots and boxes game with sfml

ok

that didnt work

here

so basically theres a bunch of dots and you have to connect the lines (it goes player by player turn by turn)

whoever makes a box gets a point

so i made all of the possible lines

int line1[3][2] = {{0,1}, {2,3}, {0,0}};

the first two are the coordinates of the two points that make the line

and the last one is (0,z) where z just keep tracks of whether the line is drawn or not (0 or 1)

i need to keep track of 40 lines

so what would be the best way to iterate through them

[wicked hollow]

I'd pick an entirely different representation for that. I'd only represent line segments of length 1, instead of arbitrary length, and I'd make a single array that represents whether any particular pair of adjacent points has a line drawn between them

[jovial island]

im confused

how would that look

are you saying youd just have an array of 1 and 0s and then instead of having the coordinates in the array

if i wanted to check which points are used by putting the points directly in the conditional?

int lines[40] = [0,0,0,0,0,etc]

and then

[wicked hollow]

that approach would be something like: ```c
bool connected_to_right_neighbor[5][4] = {};
bool connected_to_below_neighbor[4][5] = {};

[jovial island]

if (mouseClick1 = (point1) and mouseClick2 = (point2)) { drawline(point1,point2); set corresponding line that was made to 1;

smth like that?

o

is that a multidimentional bool?

thats a thing?

[wicked hollow]

sure - you can make arrays of anything; why not bool?

[jovial island]

ohh true

[wicked hollow]

if you really want to do it with N 2-dimensional arrays like you're doing, I'd just use a 3 dimensional array instead.

int lines[][3][2] = {
    {{0,1}, {2,3}, {0,0}},
    ...,
};

then instead of line1 you'd use lines[0], etc

and that's able to be looped over with just a regular for loop at that point.

[jovial island]

OHHH

so if you have a 3d one

then you can just loop through the 2d arrays

[wicked hollow]

yep.

[jovial island]

why didnt i think of that

i will try that

thank you for the help!

okay but first what you had up there seemed a lot cleaner

how does that work

why are you using 5,4 and 4,5

[wicked hollow]

I don't have to, I could use 5,5 for both - but only 4 points on each line have a right neighbor (the 5th of the 5 points on the line has nothing to the right of it)

likewise, only 4 points on each column have a below neighbor

[jovial island]

but how would you use that

sorry

[wicked hollow]

between those two arrays, they tell you whether each of the possible 40 line segments have been drawn

you could make it an array of int instead of bool and store which player drew that line segment, too - 0 means no one, 1 means player 1, 2 means player 2, or whatever

[jovial island]

ohhhhh

wait shouldnt the second array also be 5,4

or am i understanding this wrong

@wicked hollow

[wicked hollow]

no - the first one is 5 rows, each of which has 4 columns on which there is a right neighbor to which you can connect.

the second one is 4 rows, each of which has 5 columns on which there is a below neighbor to which you can connect

@jovial island

[jovial island]

oh okay

[jovial island]

so how would i keep track of when someones made a ox

box

[wicked hollow]

is a box a single cell, meaning they've got a line from (row, col) to (row, col + 1) and to (row + 1, col) and one from (row, col + 1) to (row + 1, col + 1), and one from (row + 1, col) to (row + 1, col + 1)?

in other words, in your 5x5 map, are there exactly 16 boxes?

[jovial island]

yea

and each box share a line with at least two other boxes

[wicked hollow]

then you could go with int box_claimed_by_player[4][4], and put a 0 in a cell if no one has claimed that box yet, and a 1 if player 1 has claimed it, and a 2 if player 2 has claimed it

and each time a player puts down a line segment of length 1, it could complete up to 2 boxes (a horizontal line could complete the box above or below it, a vertical line could complete the box left or right of it), so you check each of those two boxes to see if they're done now, and if so you record that the player claimed that box

[jovial island]

so besides recording if they are done or not, would i see if they are done or not by looking at the [5][4] and [4][5] array

or is there a better solution

[wicked hollow]

that's how I'd do it - each time a line was put down, figure out the one-or-two boxes it could have completed, and then check the [5][4] array and the [4][5] array to see if each of those 1 or 2 boxes are done now.

[radiant socket]

need to update this otn to f1re's current discord name lol

hey wait, your name is the same as f1re's name

[jovial island]

oh okayy

[jade bolt]

dpet 3d

probably shouldn't be named dpet. i don't have any better names tho

making animations should be quite fun

[digital bane]

Looks lol ..a strange

[ionic flax]

What????????

[dusky cliff]

so hard to take something seriously when it says "create an advanced code"

[fleet bane]

my teacher is certified insane

[jovial island]

I would like one (1) advanced code please and thank you

[fleet bane]

Who hired this person

[jade bolt]

i did

[fleet bane]

like actually

that is so low effort

[dusky cliff]

tfw

[fleet bane]

thats the class I am taking

and the screenshot is the instuctions for final project

[digital bane]

Oh my advanced code in BASIC for irony

[dusky cliff]

hah

[jovial island]

anyway yeah that's a bullshit assignment

so uh... up theirs I guess

[fleet bane]

Im not going to do it

Its impossible

[jovial island]

which school is hosting this clown shit lmao

[fleet bane]

cant tell

it would reveal my location

[dusky cliff]

ok but what if the due date is 1st october and not 10th january

[jovial island]

that's actually something that I would put together as a cheap joke

[jovial island]

lol yeah not asking you to dox yourself

[jovial island]

yeah then it's doable :P

[fleet bane]

my teacher is weird and puts day before month

learned that the hard way

[dusky cliff]

day before month makes it 1st october

👀

[jovial island]

Isn't that a standard thing in most of the world except the US?

[dusky cliff]

yes

[jovial island]

damn americans

[fleet bane]

indeed

the problem is my parents expect me to do it

on time

[digital bane]

Lol

[fleet bane]

It was assigned on Friday

[dusky cliff]

what about your classmates

[jovial island]

just hit them with the classic```py
def predict_groot_speech():
return "I am Groot."

[dusky cliff]

LMAO

[fleet bane]

They arent doing it

[digital bane]

Then we are groot

[frigid pollen]

Maybe you could ask in #data-science-and-ml. They might know of some quick and easy toys you could make that technically satisfy the requirements.

[fleet bane]

It was literally assigned yesterday

[fleet bane]

ok

[odd sphinx]

make code to generate a 1000 if statements

ez

[jovial island]

That doesn't make sense though. The software that the rubric is asking for is something that governments and corporations alike would kill to have.

Not to mention that creating a program to predict the actions of a real person seems comically unethical

[fleet bane]

perhaps she works for the government

[frigid pollen]

Depends on how you interpret it.

[fleet bane]

I just gave the instructions

I dont know what to tel you

[jade tendon]

create a giant list of common phrases, then just have a thing that chooses a random phrase, throw some random tensorflow stuff in there that does something completely irrelevant, and stretch some useless piece of code over the remaining hundreds of lines of code

/j

[fleet bane]

then it wouldnt have ai

so i would fail and get 0

[jade tendon]

adding some random tensorflow stuff would mean it technically has ai

[fleet bane]

wtf is tensorflow

[frigid pollen]

For example, imagine a computer vision thing where it watches you wave around a pingpong ball on a stick. It's mathy, but curve prediction is a thing. Not something I'd recommend to a beginner at any rate.

[fleet bane]

I started python 3 months ago

[ionic flax]

Ai lib for python

[glossy frost]

There's something very off going on here.

[fleet bane]

me doing if else statements

[glossy frost]

You got the assignment Friday, and were asked to deliver by Monday 1000 lines of code?

[fleet bane]

yeo

[glossy frost]

professional developers might write 1000 good lines of code per month

[fleet bane]

dont know what to tell you

[jade tendon]

This Juliana person is not doing their job right

[glossy frost]

not per weekend. and not after 3mo of learning

[fleet bane]

how do you know her name????

[glossy frost]

Are you in HS ?

[jade tendon]

the screenshot

[fleet bane]

freshman

thought I cut it off

oh well

[glossy frost]

Wait, so like 9th grade? aka 14yo ish ?

[fleet bane]

yea

this is beginners intro to python in 9th grade

[glossy frost]

Yeah, that's BS. Take this to your parents kick them in the ass and tell them to go to the school and protest.

[fleet bane]

I tried

they were not happy

[glossy frost]

with you, or the school?>

[fleet bane]

they expect me to get straight As no matter what

[fleet bane]

with me

[frigid pollen]

Why doesn't she have you solving something easier? P vs NP, for example.

[fleet bane]

they said I must not have paid attention during the previous classes

[odd sphinx]

ol

[fleet bane]

but I can show them the homework

[glossy frost]

because as someone that has a 15yo in school, who I expect to get straight a's in school, I would be pissed if a teacher gave that assignment

[fleet bane]

it was literally simple stuff like if else

[jovial island]

lmfao

[jovial island]

yeah at least then you get a million dollars

[fleet bane]

then she hit us with this

and I almost passed out

[ionic flax]

How gona a freshman make an ai

[fleet bane]

She was like "I shared a doc with you all with the instructions for the final project. Open it now and you can have the last 5 minutes to get started"

[frigid pollen]

Implement using an existing framework?

[ionic flax]

Ur teacher is crazy lmao

[fleet bane]

fax

[austere oak]

She might have made a mistake or something

[fleet bane]

no

I already emailed her

[ionic flax]

Now how u gonna do

[wicked hollow]

and what did she respond with?

[frigid pollen]

"But Miss, it's not April."

[ionic flax]

Copy other people code?

[fleet bane]

She just wrote the instructions again in the email

[fleet bane]

no one else is doing it

they are accepting the F in the class

it is worth 35% of final grade

[ionic flax]

I do but before doing that I read the comments and understand what the code does

[fleet bane]

?

[austere oak]

Just write some bullshit and maybe she’ll pass you for submitting anything at all

[fleet bane]

the rubric was 100 or 0

[jade tendon]

write some random statement generator, hide it somewhere in a mess of tensorflow stuff, and hope for the best

[austere oak]

I know

[fleet bane]

you fulfill all the requirements perfectly or you fail

[jade tendon]

just a big list of things people would say

maybe make it in some weird way so she doesn't see

[fleet bane]

thats probably what Im going to do

[jovial island]

No, it's pass fail. 100/0 means that either you pass and get 100 or fail and get 0.

[austere oak]

Well it’s ultimately her decision what score to give you, so she might just be lazy and pass you for submitting anything

Also the requirements are really vague

[fleet bane]

except for the fact that it must respond to questions and statements like the person would in real life

[jovial island]

Claim that such a program is impossible due to the existence of free will lmfao

[jade tendon]

I can dm you some random code in tensorflow that I just copy/paste from stackoverflow and change things around until it doesn't have errors

maybe

[fleet bane]

actually

thats what Im doing

[jovial island]

just gotta pass the Turing test I see ez claps

[fleet bane]

print("Function is not possible because of free will")

[austere oak]

Also don’t a teacher’s bosses look into things if they end up failing all or almost all of their class? AND the students are saying they were giving an inappropriate assignment

[frigid pollen]

I'll come back around to narrowing the field of play. The assignment is meant to create something that acts like a person. Acts like them doing what? What about playing a game? What move is a given person most likely to make given the state of the game? Statistics. Then just choose the most likely move or near to.

[glossy frost]

Are your parents like computer illiterate?

[ionic flax]

Hard code

[wicked hollow]

Make a program that simulates your future decisions. Whenever you ask it any question, have it say "I can't talk now, I'm working on an impossible assignment."

[fleet bane]

we are pretty much supposed to create a replica of a person in python is what she told me in the email

[ionic flax]

Hard code the anwser

[glossy frost]

Like the teacher is a moron for assigning this to an intro class where 1/2 the kids can't even write tic tac toe. But wtf is up with your parents not having your back here.

[wheat rock]

lmfao

[ionic flax]

Yeah

[fleet bane]

I couldnt believe she signed off like that

[austere oak]

They probably don’t know what they’re looking at

[jovial island]

welcome to clowntown USA 🤡🤡🤡

[fleet bane]

yeo

[fleet bane]

howd you know where I live

lol

[wicked hollow]

Best idea: Simulate yourself, and have it answer every question with "I'm too busy learning AI to talk right now." 😄

[fleet bane]

lol

[glossy frost]

That's my only guess, but really, it still doesn't sound right.

[jovial island]

Brilliant

[ionic flax]

I worked with dialogflow before

[glossy frost]

Ok, so, given the parameters of your assignment here is what you should do:

[fleet bane]

I will just walk into the room and tell her that I made a tangble hologram while coding

[glossy frost]

You want your program to be able to take input, and deliver answers. No problem you can do that.

[ionic flax]

Why not just hard code the anwsers and hope for the best

[fleet bane]

It has to respond to questions

I'll convince her I am a hologram

[odd sphinx]

tf kind of assignment is that

[jade tendon]

Maybe you could just do a lot of if/else statements

[glossy frost]

You want it to "learn" Ok, no problem have it remember answers to questions. and use them.

[odd sphinx]

ok how about this

[glossy frost]

Don't worry about what machine learning is.

[odd sphinx]

put ur phone in a box

[jovial island]

Yeah, I mean if your kid says "hey my teacher gave me a wildly inappropriate assignment and I don't think it's reasonable within the scope of the course", to hell with if you understand the assignment yourself. Listen to your damn kid.

[glossy frost]

worry about what a machine learning is.

[fleet bane]

I will submit google

[odd sphinx]

and change the hey Siri/google wake word

to ur own bots name

[fleet bane]

I will open a new tab on my pc and hand it in

[frigid pollen]

Animal guesser.

[odd sphinx]

and ask ur teacher to talk to the boz

[fleet bane]

actualy

[odd sphinx]

ez A+

[fleet bane]

I'll hand in an echo dot

[odd sphinx]

lol

[ionic flax]

Lol will u pass it

[odd sphinx]

yes

[fleet bane]

thanks guys

im out

so many good ideas

[dusky cliff]

lmao

[wicked hollow]

ooh, easy peasy: Simulate Kanye West. Whenever someone says anything to the bot, he responds with "I'ma let you finish, but " and then says some random nonsense

[dusky cliff]

ahhahahahhaha

[odd sphinx]

lol

[glossy frost]

1000 if statements.

if input() == "do you like fish":
    print (answers['do you like fish'])

[odd sphinx]

also works

[glossy frost]

if question is unknown say " I don't know, what is the answer', and them store the answer for when they ask again.

[jade tendon]

you only need about 500 if statements for 1000 lines in that case

[glossy frost]

and if that is not sufficient take it to the dean, headmaster, principle, local super hero, or whatever god king is lying around.

[jade tendon]

but better safe than sorry

[wheat rock]

well there's a python chatt bot module

[odd sphinx]

advanced code

lmaoo

nope

[ionic flax]

I made an ai bot for a project once ago and it's requirements was reply a info for each message passed through dialogflow so I did this

Receive request from dialogflow with a webhook and pass it to a Google search Api then push the first results return back to it

[wheat rock]

!pypi ChatterBot

[clever salmon]

ChatterBot v1.0.8

ChatterBot is a machine learning, conversational dialog engine.

[wheat rock]

give it some text , it will come up with some reply

1% accuracy btw

[odd sphinx]

lol

good enough

[glossy frost]

Fundamentally, if you do this project correctly: it's under 100 lines, if you do it badly it's over 1000 lines.

[jade tendon]

You could probably just include that package, and then just write some random nonsense for the remaining lines

[ionic flax]

Well and this passed the test

[glossy frost]

What's your dad's phone number, let me give him a call and tell him he's an idiot.

🙂

Sure that would go over well.

[ionic flax]

Don't

[frigid pollen]

Some people have no business teaching coding.

[wicked hollow]

Does the phrase "markov chain" ring any bells? 3 months of learning Python might be enough to create a markov chain generator that generates random text based on things someone has said in the past.

[digital bane]

Ah hal ...sorry teacher I cant do that

[glossy frost]

for 12-14 yo kids that have never done any programming before? prob not.

[frigid pollen]

Predicting behaviour in real time, though?

Come on.

[glossy frost]

over a single weekend with no help from the teacher?

[ionic flax]

Well I learned python myself and I hate when people handle me impossible assignment. P.s I have thought of some impossible idea before

[jade tendon]

I mean, I'm thirteen, and I technically have created an AI before

But that assignment is just ridiculous

[ionic flax]

I have only made a discord bot and some simple Api

[jade tendon]

I've written too many discord bots

[ionic flax]

And I know how to setup gitea and nginx to reverse proxy

[jade tendon]

I figured out how to get SSL working on Apache, but it took a lot of pain and 45 minutes

[wicked hollow]

you don't need to know much more than dictionaries and loops for it

it'd be tough, but doable, I think.

probably easier than using an ML library

certainly easier, in fact

[glossy frost]

yeah that was my suggestion.

[jade tendon]

You could maybe just use fuzzywuzzy and get the closest result of the input with a set string and respond with the answer to that string and it would be good enough

[ionic flax]

I have learn classes function variables and a little bit of asyncio just to make my bot and it's also why I started to learn python myself

[glossy frost]

but still 2 days to write 1000 lines of code in your freetime for kids that prob haven't written more than 30 lines in a row before?

[wicked hollow]

yeah. it feels like a tonedeaf joke on the teacher's part to me.

[glossy frost]

in class Monday: "so what did we learn about refusing bad assignments?"

[ionic flax]

Lmao

[odd sphinx]

just use the phone in the box trick

or the echo in the box

[jovial island]

@wicked hollow have you used sfml before

[blissful coral]

if one really wants to build a simple chatbot using no Machine Learning/DL then they can still use quite many tricks

a simple one would be to leverage something like ELIZA https://web.njit.edu/~ronkowit/eliza.html

otherwise its still quite possible to use DL for a medium-level chatbot - the problem is that you won't understand any of it atm; but would still get the job done 🤷‍♂️

[brazen jacinth]

Hey

Heyoooò

[rare moat]

Universities offered themselves to be a place of learning where most resources are, in terms of many fields like medicine etc unis aren’t exam. But for programming it is
like Aboo said, YouTube can be a great place to learn, but how people learn varies from person to person.

[languid osprey]

^

[brazen jacinth]

You can be self taught by yt yes, but unis are necessary too

[languid osprey]

Also, are you speaking from any experience?

[rare moat]

some people actively excel in a school environment where there is a knowledgable instructor there to guide you.

does everyone? no. i do not, but i am not everyone.

[runic veldt]

Whilst degree is a certificate of what you learnt. Many top companies are now understand that what universities offer is obsolete. In terms of computer science, You can learn most of the stuff from YouTube. And if you are talking about learning from a person lol Universities is the worst there’s bloody 300 students in a classroom with one lecturer give a lecture for 2-3 hours

[brazen jacinth]

If you expect to get a job by programming, you probably need a degree which you won't get from. Yt

[languid osprey]

Thats a personal preference

[daring jay]

Whether unis are a scam are not, going to one is still pretty damn useful for Comp Sci jobs

[languid osprey]

I have a few friends that learn very well in a structured school environment

[rare moat]

i am the last person who will be defending the school system trust me haha.

[languid osprey]

Youtube isn't my go-to for programming tutorials either

[runic veldt]

On programming, most universities now offer a online based video where you can pace yourself and learn. And many students prefer that and so if you look at that from majority point of view universities are essentially scam for computer science, you are basically paying in the UK £27k for a certificate and most of the knowledge can be learnt online and even far better knowledge

[rare moat]

yeah.

[brazen jacinth]

Yes

[wicked hollow]

I don't know of any company where it's not easier to land an entry level software dev job with a CS degree than without one.

[sturdy moon]

I think it also depends on where you live, where I live it's very hard to get a job without a degree,there is always a minimum education

[brazen jacinth]

For example, Lucas tutorials

[languid osprey]

what experience are you speaking from?

[rare moat]

well i mean, getting a degree and actually learning something are not necessarily going to happen at the same time.

[languid osprey]

Like I said above, it really depends on what environment you'll personally learn better in

[wicked hollow]

and on the flip side, there are definitely companies where it's not possible to get an entry level SWE job without a CS degree.

[runic veldt]

The fact that my brother does Computer Science and Maths at a top university here and I can see his modules. The maths modules are actually good so my point stands that anything with maths, medicine and research universities are really good. But for programming it’s basically a scam considering his modules

[languid osprey]

and like I said, I have a few friends that'll learn better in a school environment, as opposed to self-learning

[daring jay]

Whether the content is good or not, it's still pretty useful to go to university for (comp sci) job purposes

[runic veldt]

And like I said in universities there’s 300 students with one lecturer give lecture for 3 hours

[languid osprey]

And theres nothing inherently wrong with that

[runic veldt]

I understand it if it’s a small class

[rare moat]

implying you cannot talk to the teacher after class.

[runic veldt]

And I’d prefer that too if ‘twas small class say 20-30 people

[abstract tapir]

I learn better in self learning, but when the self-learning relates to online classes, then i instantly procrastinate and fail...

[languid osprey]

I mean, thats your preference

[runic veldt]

Like hell you can’t tell me you will focus for more than 1 hour the lecturer keeps on talking this is why most Unis provides a online platform where you can view the lecture lol

And pace yourself

[brazen jacinth]

You might gain more knowledge from yt than uni, but you will most likely not get a comp Sci job when they ask if you have a degree and you say you studied all of Corey schafers tutorials

[wicked hollow]

those teachers also have office hours, and TAs who are available to answer questions. Plus labs and recitations.

[languid osprey]

I have a friend that learned absolutely nothing with a few months of being self-taught, I on the other hand self-learned the majority of my current programming knowledge, it falls down to how you absorb information

[rare moat]

this is true

[runic veldt]

Universities are essentially scam and most companies are now starting to realise. Heck people are getting top class programming jobs by learning algorithms etc and completing online modules like on EdX

[languid osprey]

other people might have better focus, you can't really speak for everyone

[abstract tapir]

I am self-studying Japanese, but that's different from code.

[abstract tapir]

University's are not a scam dude

[runic veldt]

I can actually, study shows that most people can keep a continuous focus for 30-50 minutes

[rare moat]

i think we are just starting to repeat ourselves. @languid osprey

[runic veldt]

This is why in a small class you tend to have a little break after 50 minutes

[abstract tapir]

But hell, university is expensive here

[languid osprey]

conversation seems to be going in a circle, yes

[brazen jacinth]

I mean, the student loans suck but scam? No

[abstract tapir]

IKR

[languid osprey]

unis may be expensive, yes, but you can't deny that a degree is useful

[sturdy moon]

Okay lets say they are a scam for thr sake of discussion, what makes you think recruiters are realizing that

[runic veldt]

Universities are hella expensive and considering the knowledge they put out it’s a scam. They should offer something greater

[brazen jacinth]

Like a degree?

[languid osprey]

cs50 is a college course, and its good

[runic veldt]

Someone with a degree will have less experience than someone with no degree but actually completing projects and been coding

[abstract tapir]

The knowledge? your reading fake news obviously.

[languid osprey]

who said you can't do projects while getting a degree

[runic veldt]

And what fake news Am I reading

[brazen jacinth]

Prob not

[abstract tapir]

IKR

[languid osprey]

Its not like college doesn't give you experience

[hollow heart]

uni is a pipeline, take advantage, or don't

[runic veldt]

I mean depends are you able to balance the work pressure from uni and do a project at the same time?

[wicked hollow]

regardless of whether you could learn the material without going to uni, the fact of the matter is that having the degree will open doors that you will not be able to open without it.

[runic veldt]

Not saying you can’t

[abstract tapir]

yes

[languid osprey]

We have people that are in college in this server

[brazen jacinth]

I'm 13 :|

[abstract tapir]

I'm 21

[languid osprey]

People aren't going to stop going to college, whether its a "scam" or not

[wicked hollow]

I'm 36. We've got people of all ages.

[abstract tapir]

IKR

[languid osprey]

indeed

[runic veldt]

It will open doors and open new networks, but what I’m essentially saying for programming it’s essentially pointless, the stuff they teach is what you can find on YouTube and other sites like edX

[languid osprey]

its not "pointless", because you get a degree

[digital bane]

Ok you can get a degree that is non CS and self learn CS like I did and do IT projects for the Uni even as a volunteer for a research project I eventually got absorbed by the Uni IT dept that way lol. Later with job experience the Degree matters less

[abstract tapir]

Uh, youtube is not the best for programming, you still need a degree.

[runic veldt]

And you pay how much for that degree?

[rare moat]

when you get absorbed by a university.

[brazen jacinth]

I'm approximately one third jolly geek

[languid osprey]

Depends on where you live

[wicked hollow]

what I'm saying is that it's not, because it opens doors and exposes you to new networks, and to opportunities like internships

[runic veldt]

People are going into debt by paying for the degree lol

[digital bane]

Get a degree

Any

[languid osprey]

Sure, but thats not invalidating my point

[abstract tapir]

So? you can get out of debt

[rare moat]

what the fuck? i thought you were like 20.

[runic veldt]

And that is my point universities are scam well in terms of programming

[languid osprey]

My point is that a degree is useful, whether its going to put you in debt or not

[hollow heart]

your total life earnings will be greatly affected by your earnings in the first few years of your career

[runic veldt]

Like heck people get a degree from law and move to programming

[languid osprey]

Sure, why not

[runic veldt]

So what was the point of the law degree you just wasted your money

[brazen jacinth]

But they DID get a degree

[languid osprey]

with this logic, just don't go to college

[hollow heart]

i also know plenty of experienced people with industry knowledge and experience that have been hindered from climbing up the ladder bc they never finished their degrees

[rare moat]

well, you were previously under the assumption that you were going into law, but you eventually changed your mind.

[wicked hollow]

in the US, a CS degree will cost you somewhere between $60k and $120k on average, depending on the college. Entry level software developers command salaries of around $100k per year. Most people I know who graduated with CS degrees paid off their loans within 3 years.

[runic veldt]

Well if your point is your ganna pay a lot for just a degree which is basically a paper

[digital bane]

I have a Chem degree and im in IT

[runic veldt]

Then lol

[abstract tapir]

It's NOT just a paper

[brazen jacinth]

I see this mindset a lot on reddit

[hollow heart]

the paper is meaningless, you can burn it if you want

[languid osprey]

its the degree part thats important

[abstract tapir]

Yes.

[languid osprey]

you can't deny that a degree is useful :P

[runic veldt]

Well so my point is you don’t need a degree for programming actually, if someone can get a degree from law and move to programming that easily

[sturdy moon]

You can think of a degree as your way to land a job

[digital bane]

Its useful as a baseline

[runic veldt]

Then why need a degree in cs?

[languid osprey]

None of us are saying you "need" it, we're just saying it can be very useful

[rare moat]

cannot get a degree if you do not get one.

[hollow heart]

do you think a law degree is easy lol

[languid osprey]

Also, you can't say that all college programming courses are bad