moose meat here is usually served with red wine sauce
#ot2-the-original-pubsta
nova ember
@somber belfry that is a way to describe it. In a similar way you could describe deer as:
An animal fed up to be killed and consumed. Sold all around the world
Lol
somber belfry
lmao
proven gorge
this will be a slow ook. We boil the meat on low temperature for several hours along with spices and some vegetables. Then it will be basically like pulled pork in consistency
stable pier
reduced red wine sauce sounds good
proven gorge
@nova ember Red deer is actually native to sweden, meaning it can survive the winter no problem. The meat we bought was from wild deer. They have been walking around living free in the swedish forest.
With wild meat you don't get the same issues you get from say cattle or pork
stable pier
made something with a berry+wine reduction recently but forgot what the fuck it was
AH
duck.
nova ember
Ah, alright. There are different variants and that one isn’t close to as common
proven gorge
You can have farmed deer as well, but again they can survive the climate so there is no need for em to be squeezed into a cramped building like cows for example
nova ember
The thing about it is that it’s much cheaper to do it like that
proven gorge
farmed deer is usually raised in quite wide pens. Deer behaviour makes it very easy to farm em as well (they are a very stationary species)
No
Why waste money on a building if you don't have to?
stable pier
should see if i can get some deer here tbh. we've got some wild deer in the area and i know they do culling
proven gorge
you only need fence
stable pier
deer for christmas would be nice
small spoke
Deer is a bit gamey
proven gorge
I think you got both red deer and fallow deer in the UK
small spoke
badum tsch
proven gorge
never had fallow, but red deer is awesome
stable pier
🤔
nova ember
I mean, why not just skip eating animals?
somber belfry
something about game and game meat, i think
proven gorge
deer belong to a category of animals called game
small spoke
people describe food texture as gamey, but game is also hunted animals
proven gorge
in hunting language
stable pier
yeah, it's a game meat
proven gorge
Because some of us have to vester
stable pier
just not sure what joke michael was going for or if i missed it
proven gorge
allergic to all the vegetable protein sources
somber belfry
I mean, why not just skip eating animals?
@nova ember That is not how we play this game
small spoke
I'd love to try hunting
proven gorge
I do however have an environmental goal when I eat meat
stable pier
i can't eat gluten and while that doesn't mean i have to eat meat it makes things a whole lot easier
eating meat, that is
hunting's alright. i used to pop rabbits with my dad
proven gorge
wild meat is about twice as co2 efficient as vegetable based protein like soy and beans
nova ember
There are a lot of vegan sources of protein. Lentils, soya, mushrooms (?), peas, beans
nova ember
It’s not
proven gorge
Yeah, I got something called baljväxtallergi
somber belfry
There are a lot of vegan sources of protein. Lentils, soya, mushrooms (?), peas, beans
@nova ember protein powder
nova ember
@nova ember That is not how we play this game
@somber belfry that is exactly how we play this game lol
proven gorge
that incorporates essentially all vegetable protein sources
nova ember
There are different types
stable pier
sure, those are high protein food stuffs
small spoke
Yeah, but pea protein powder tastes foul
somber belfry
baljväxtallergi
legume allergy
stable pier
but do they have the texture or flavour of a good bit of fillet mignon?
somber belfry
bisk, I think there is also an ethical aspect
small spoke
If vegetables have protein rich sources, then imagine how much protein in an animal that only eats vegetables
stable pier
yeah, not for me.
small spoke
I am a science man
stable pier
¬_¬
somber belfry
same lol
stable pier
it's like with doing my bit for the environment
sure, i turn my lights off and do recycling
proven gorge
There is also the aspect that forest is being cut down to make room for soy plantations
stable pier
but car with big engine go vroom and i'm not giving that up
proven gorge
vegetable based diet is far from environmentally friendly
better that industrial meat, sure, but not friendly
somber belfry
There is also the aspect that forest is being cut down to make room for soy plantations
@proven gorge cutting down forests to make room for farm animals
small spoke
People are cutting down trees to make server farms, so we should all turn off our pcs
nova ember
I mean, it’s completely reasonable to value the taste. However if it’s one of the main causes of deforestation, co2 emissions and pollution, I think we need to at least consider a diet that relies less on meat. I’m not saying ditch it completely (even though that’s what I’ve done), but at least decrease the consumption of it
stable pier
or in high mountains
proven gorge
In principal I agree with you vester. however I do not agree that you lump up meat in one single category
there are different kinds of meats that are very different to the environment
cattle co2 emission: 26kg/kg meat
soy: 5kg/kg
moose: 2.6 kg/kg
small spoke
I eat chicken mostly, which is the least such co2 heavy
nova ember
There is also the aspect that forest is being cut down to make room for soy plantations
@proven gorge the soy that is being grown in these places is almost exclusively for feeding livestock animals. In fact, if we stopped eating meat and switched to more plant based diets, we could decrease the area needed for growing plants drastically and still feed more than the entire world
With no rain forests being cut down
proven gorge
Based on those numbers I have decreased my industrial meat consumption severely. I mostly eat wild meat nowadays
stable pier
i don't see why my project isn't being taken seriously though
hang on, let me diagram it
final sable
Art man at it again!
proven gorge
bisk diagrams
somber belfry
Non-industrial meat does not require cutting down of forests, yes?
nova ember
@proven gorge I think we have a very similar view on this fundamentally, but there are a few aspects that we don’t quite view the same
proven gorge
@somber belfry Moose don't require you to cut down forest no
final sable
hmmm
proven gorge
hah good one
small spoke
We could decrease co2 emission in meat eating and humanity by engaging in cannibalism
proven gorge
We could decrease co2 emission in meat eating and humanity by engaging in cannibalism
@small spoke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal
This guy was ahead of his time
small spoke
Didn't Jonathan Swift also say that Mars has 2 moons back in 1726?
proven gorge
That might very well be the case 😄
small spoke
Truly a man born out of time
nova ember
I think I read that one
proven gorge
If they have not changed it since I was in gymnasium I think it is part of one of the english courses
english 2 or something like that
small spoke
It's in Gulliver's travels I think
nova ember
Yeah, I think that’s where we read it. Or maybe in grade 9
(That’s not the same as grade 9 in most other countries)
proven gorge
I remember it from gymnasium so I assume it was during one of the gymnasium courses
nova ember
Yeah. We could’ve read it at different times
small spoke
Galileo also said that Mars has 2 moons because Earth has 1 and Jupiter has 4, therefore it only made rational sense
Fair logic
proven gorge
I think making 14 year olds read why we should make boots out of infants skin would be a bit too much xD
small spoke
I mean, Jupiter has 53 moons but hey ho
final sable
This is concerning
somber belfry
Yeah, I'm not really sure 14 year olds will get satire
somber belfry
about the poor and shit
final sable
lol
proven gorge
great idea there bisk xD
small spoke
Kids are being forced to read Gulliver's travels because it has the propaganda that said that Brutus was one of the most just men in history
What tomfoolery
somber belfry
Thou art the biggest brain in the land
final sable
@stable pier Could you please explain how your plan works?
stable pier
stop cutting down trees to create grazing land for cows
by putting the trees on the cows
it's so simple
somber belfry
Kids are being forced to read Gulliver's travels because it has the propaganda that said that Brutus was one of the most just men in history
@small spoke wasn't Anthony saying that in a satirical/sarcastic manner
I haven't actually read Gulliver's travels
so forgive me if I'm getting the context confused with something else
small spoke
Brutus appears as a ghost, and I think it's mentioned there
somber belfry
Brutus was manipulated by the others
final sable
I think you should hide your ideas and run away, @stable pier
I heard they kill people with genius ideas to ruin the world for a fortune
small spoke
He knew what he was doing, he had the reasoning that he didn't want another monarch
That backfired wildly
somber belfry
yes,, his love for the country and democracy outweighed his love for his friend
That backfired wildly
haha yes
proven gorge
let it also be mentioned that this was before religion made it illegal to be homosexual
somber belfry
small spoke
Loving democracy so much that you accidentally create an empire
The game is the game.
proven gorge
Damn it, I lost the game
stable pier
good show, great character
"so if snotboogey robs every game, why do you let him play?"
"got to man, this is murica."
small spoke
"Fuck the bosses"
stable pier
"man you think the man who invented chicken nuggets is rich? nah man. he's still down there inventing shit."
still need to get the gf to watch that
quite the long slog though
stable pier
urg
somber belfry
"I dun want it", "she's ma queen" intensifies
small spoke
We wanted it to be one way.... but it's the other way
stable pier
we thought it be like it do but it don't
proven gorge
That fucking siege battle still infuriates me
who the fuck deploys artillery in the front!?
And who does an unsupported cavalry charge towards the enemy front line?
stable pier
S8 was just garbage
the final battle can just get in the bin
cleganebowl was a massive disappointment
proven gorge
what final battle?
stable pier
the one at King's Landing
proven gorge
The one at kings landing? yeah that one sucked
proven gorge
I could have put up with it if circei got a fitting ending, but nope
stable pier
might as well have dropped a cartoon safe on her
proven gorge
kinda wanted her to go down like that shame nun did
proven gorge
Yeah Jamie was just lame all the way to the end
stable pier
even if she just got torn about by a dragon or smth idk
somber belfry
Jamie fockin Lanister
vast topaz
Hi i was wondering if I could ask some questions
fluid plank
i just realized how better kitty is than alacritty
vast topaz
sorry this might be the wrong place to ask lol
vast topaz
I'll look for a thing ontopic cus I'm just new to python
jovial island
yes python iss kewl languag
fluid plank
what are 'these' made of?
storm birch
dreams
pure rune
Okay so I haven't had pop in like over a month almost, and we grabbed a couple tonight, and it doesn't taste very good now x.x
storm birch
I have been drinking soda almost every day and it is just so awful for me lol
pure rune
Well we normally drink those sparkling water beverages, and water
but I know she wanted a pop so I instinctively grabbed two and its well nasty now
storm birch
yep, tons of sugar. And it feels bad haha.
Im drinking it right now lol... I need to exercise
fast wyvern
The OT title had me rolling 🤣
pure rune
oh it was diet coke even, and when I drank pop it was normally diet stuff but holy hell I rather drink warm milk
devout loom
@worthy sparrow What did he ask you to do though?
worthy sparrow
@worthy sparrow What did he ask you to do though?
@devout loom a discord bot that has 30 puzzel games that you play against an AI using reaction controls
devout loom
lulw
worthy sparrow
This is pretty big at least for me
devout loom
it is
ancient whale
how do you deal with typing nested fuctions?
is it worth doing Callable[[int, str], Callable[str, bool]] or just Callable[[int, str], Any]
limber pollen
I'd go with creating aliases
ancient whale
ah ok
what about subclasses/dataclasses?
@dataclass
class Enemy:
class Rat:
def __init__(self) -> None:
self.sprite = Enemies.rat_passive```
like with this
normal quartz
@sturdy relic sorry to bother, but which plugin did you use for Rich Discord Presence on PyCharm?
sturdy relic
i use the more popular one
normal quartz
do you have a link?
sturdy relic
i have a screenshot if you hold on for a moment
normal quartz
sure
rotund swallow
rotund swallow
it is already saved
somber belfry
what happens when you run the program?
rotund swallow
let me try
somber belfry
are you sure you have closed all the parentheses?
I can't verify the ones on int(input())
somber belfry
lol, it's okay
happens to everyone
normal quartz
Fun Fact: When you read this you will start to manually breathe.
nova ember
@normal quartz ugh
nova ember
At least you’re doing the same
tranquil ridge
i am hitting my teeth too
somber belfry
At least you’re doing the same
now it's time for you to become hyper aware of your tongue
somber belfry
Bite it
somber belfry
oh no.
tranquil ridge
you will like your tongue?
stable pier
yeah
tranquil ridge
:bigbrain:
stable pier
tongues are rad
somber belfry
tongues are red
stable pier
tongue control
somber belfry
also why is the tongue a flower
@normal quartz that's none of your biskness
stable pier
hmmm.....
tranquil ridge
my sister can do that while i cant and she has teased me ever since she found that out
stable pier
i only realised i could do it when a friend showed me
somber belfry
Yeah, i can do it too
i only realised i could do it when a friend showed me
Another thing I realised this way was that I have Hitchhiker's thumb
stable pier
ahhh, hypermobility
somber belfry
yep
stable pier
i have a bit of that
pretty nifty thing to have
means you've got more elastin iirc
somber belfry
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/463035241142026251/748945466242367549/index.jpg
here's a pic I sent here a while back
stable pier
which means your skin stays tighter for longer
nova ember
Dude what
somber belfry
means you've got more elastin iirc
@stable pier yeah, including my heart's valve or some shit
nova ember
How is that even possible
somber belfry
you're more likely to experience early onset arthritis
👀
nova ember
That’s like bending it -90 degrees
stable pier
when i broke my right hand thumb i went to doctor's like
"i can't move my thumb in its full range of movement!"
nova ember
But that’s just insanely flexible. I’ve seen flexible, but not that flexible
stable pier
"what are you talking about? this is the normal range."
somber belfry
hahaha
stable pier
i mean i still need it
somber belfry
hmm, true
stable pier
but i can't do all the neat shit i used to be able to do
like carry lots of stuff in my hands
somber belfry
do your thumbs bend the other way too? like mine
stable pier
not as extreme as yours, no
somber belfry
okay
nova ember
not as extreme as yours, no
@stable pier his thumb isn’t even a thumb
somber belfry
😔
nova ember
Oh
somber belfry
let me delete that
somber belfry
@thorn dragon https://dateparser.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
This is interesting
pure rune
What the fuck happened to that poor thumb????
zealous tide
o
jovial island
is there a program that mixes python code, adds junk code, and renames variables to gibberish to make it harder for people to read it?
quaint summit
its bisk. I feel like I dont see a lot of people i used to see in here. I notice when old names drop in lately.
I suppose it happens
storm birch
bisk is always with us
stable pier
yes.
pure rune
wtf, why is manjaro installing hp device manager, when I don't have an hp printer, and never installed the package with my knowledge
stable pier
isn't it just bundled with the printer package?
pure rune
i dunno lol
well this is odd, the desktop settings wallpaper menu is blank and I can't change my wallpaper now
funny how a simple reboot fixes the most random things
final sable
yes
I tried formatting a usb pen drive in 5 separate ways
and removing it and putting it back in fixed it
neat light
@severe socket Please don't post random memes here
severe socket
???
pure rune
they were refering to the image you posted, its not allowed on the server
fast wyvern
is there a program that mixes python code, adds junk code, and renames variables to gibberish to make it harder for people to read it?
@jovial island you mean obfuscate python code?
radiant socket
i think pyarmor does that
primal comet
*@nova embers paradise
nova ember
Hey, shush
I’ve just been distracted from sleep these last few days
I usually have good sleep routines @primal comet
golden flare
Any chance someone could take a look at a Java issue I'm having?
@haughty citrus , saw you said you could help in the other chat
haughty citrus
i could try to help
golden flare
so basically I am trying to access this BarChart.java to plot my data and I just cannot figure out how
haughty citrus
sorry i do not know 😦
i am in a computer science course and haven't gotten to guis yet
golden flare
I just don't know how to call the function because it's in a separate java file
I also have no idea how to do GUI stuff 😛
thanks for looking though!
haughty citrus
i tried it out, did not like it xD
golden flare
I've made a few things with PySimpleGUI which I'd definitely recommend for simple programs but haven't messed with any GUI stuff for java
somber belfry
What the fuck happened to that poor thumb????
😳 👉 👈
proper python
tranquil ridge
fresh pecan
pure rune
There are kids being born to parents that were not around when Shrek came out in 2001. Holy crap I feel so old
storm birch
vester is asleep rn (or rather, he BETTER be)
pure rune
I mean..you could go fly and see?
storm birch
welp, time to cross the atlantic.
somber belfry
I still stick by my idea of spam calling him
pure rune
If you go across the atlantic, take me with you lol
nova ember
@keen burrow yes
unreal sigil
👀
rotund swallow
lol
tranquil ridge
luul
nova ember
I think this clearly shows the fact that an Akarys is tiny
tranquil ridge
rotund swallow
@nova ember do u use adobe photoshop for editing pics?
nova ember
Nope
rotund swallow
ohhh
tranquil ridge
he does vector designing
keen burrow
.>
rotund swallow
what's that
nova ember
Photoshop is for raster (mostly) and illustrator is for vector design. I mostly do vector design.
Though I don't use illustrator. I use Affinity Designer
rotund swallow
i see
tranquil ridge
doesnt vest means vest?
nova ember
Yeah
rotund swallow
Vector graphics are computer graphics images that are defined in terms of points on a Cartesian plane, which are connected by lines and curves to form polygons and other shapes.
```OOOOHvest
@tranquil ridge u talking aboutT-Shirt?
tranquil ridge
no, the thing we wear inside tshirts
nova ember
You're talking about vests?
rotund swallow
i don't wear anything inside t-shirts
nova ember
Ah, I thought you meant "vest", not "vest"
nova ember
Silly of you that you didn't just say "vest" first instead of misleading me with "vest" @tranquil ridge
rotund swallow
that's very confusing. it's like saying
keen burrow
🦺
tranquil ridge
this
keen burrow
That’s the kotlin version of @nova ember 🦺
rotund swallow
who wears that
nova ember
that's not a vest lol @tranquil ridge
tranquil ridge
what, you guys dont?
rotund swallow
well i don't at least
nova ember
No, I don't
rotund swallow
that's not a vest lol
ye lol
nova ember
That’s the kotlin version of @nova ember 🦺
@keen burrow is there a kotlin version of me?
tranquil ridge
well, it is called a vest here
rotund swallow
innerwear vests
tranquil ridge
yes, innerwear
tranquil ridge
plural is vests, singular vest, and i meant vest and not vest
nova ember
but vest?
tranquil ridge
vest, i wear them in the summer so the sweat gets absorbed and i dont get rashes...
rotund swallow
ok, it's not called vest it's called innerwear
rotund swallow
well that's not the general term
tranquil ridge
i thought it was, MY BAD
nova ember
I guess you can call it that there then, but that's not a way it's used here
rotund swallow
when u say "vest" most people don't mean** innerwear**
nova ember
You could be in a majority though. I don't know 🙃
rotund swallow
this is what google says
a sleeveless garment for the upper body usually worn over a shirt. b : a protective usually sleeveless garment (such as a life preserver) that extends to the waist.
Do you mean a wasitcoat?
A waistcoat in BrE (/ˈwɛskət/ or /ˈweɪstkoʊt/; colloquially called a weskit), or vest in AmE, is a sleeveless upper-body garment. It is usually worn over a dress shirt and necktie and below a coat as a part of most men's formal wear.
rotund swallow
#ot2-the-original-pubsta message
this is what he meant
pure rune
Thats a shirt nicknamed a "wifebeater" horrible nick name..
tranquil ridge
:helpmenow:
pure rune
normal quartz
väst
pure rune
Also known as a A-frame shirt
pure rune
XD
keen burrow
I guess you may want to see the new akarys art as well
@nova ember no.
pure rune
an interesting cartoon or something, but most people think this is aklfic lol. it's not sorry, baees?
I couldn't make out a couple words lol
tranquil ridge
@slow valve so whats the status
nova ember
Since this is where I share all my strange graphics today (sorry ak), I'll share this idea I had as well
tranquil ridge
whoa
rotund swallow
cool
pure rune
Ooh I like it
nova ember
Lovely :)
tranquil ridge
how did u make it xD
nova ember
Frame by frame animation
Drew it on my iPad by hand and erased part of the logo per frame, in reverse
nova ember
Thankss
rotund swallow
Drew it on my iPad by hand and erased part of the logo per frame, in reverse
@nova ember ohh, u good at drawing?
slow valve
so I ran a cmd in linux
python3 --version
and it gave Python 3.8.5
how can I use Python
slow valve
I don't want to use on terminal
steel eagle
download an editor?
steel eagle
3.9 is for any platform
slow valve
How can I update it then
steel eagle
but your package repo might not have the latest version available
you'll need to compile it yourself
or add a third party repo that has it available
slow valve
eh I will just use 3.8 for now to get my project done
should I go with stable or dev sublime?
slow valve
stable
steel eagle
there you go
steel eagle
yes
slow valve
?
keen burrow
I'd say yes
keen burrow
Nah
slow valve
I will find the sublime text editor in?
tranquil ridge
@slow valve dude, listen to me and get pyenv, you will not regret it
and to install sublime
yay -S sublime-text
slow valve
I already ran cmds to download sublime
tranquil ridge
ok
but just saying, use pyenv if you want multiple python versions
google how to install pyenv
slow valve
no I don't want multiple python versions
tranquil ridge
you just said you want python 3.9..
slow valve
why is it taking so much time to download sublime?
jovial island
installed linux?
jovial island
rip
tranquil ridge
@slow valve are you building it from source kek
jovial island
anyways get used to linux
jovial island
ok
slow valve
with all the space to manjaro
I like how Meganz called Recycling bin Rubbish Bin xD
is google making gmail paid?
tranquil ridge
no lol
slow valve
I saw the news but I think it is fake xD
tranquil ridge
obviously its fake lol, i will just stop using google if that happens, i don think google can get that stupid
slow valve
dropbox gives how much gb space for free?
somber belfry
what
slow valve
ugh
jovial island
gmail service
tranquil ridge
@slow valve how did you start the installation desu
you are def building it from source
slow valve
yup
slow valve
curl -O https://download.sublimetext.com/sublimehq-pub.gpg && sudo pacman-key --add sublimehq-pub.gpg && sudo pacman-key --lsign-key 8A8F901A && rm sublimehq-pub.gpg
echo -e "\n[sublime-text]\nServer = https://download.sublimetext.com/arch/stable/x86_64" | sudo tee -a /etc/pacman.conf
sudo pacman -Syu sublime-text
slow valve
I am new to linux what do you expect from me
tranquil ridge
you should have asked me 
somber belfry
pacman -Syu
will update all the packages in your system
you should do that
first
tranquil ridge
oh, i thought he did that already
slow valve
@somber belfry I am not doing that for 1 reason
bcuz I will start fresh anyway after my backup
somber belfry
pacman -S sublime-text will install sublime text
pacman -Syu sublime-text will update all the packages in your system and install sublime text
slow valve
ok
so it is updating all the packages
I had like 273 something to update
would I need to reboot
tranquil ridge
it will take some time to update all packages, and thats necessary desu
tranquil ridge
mine sucks
slow valve
but better than mine lol
tranquil ridge
slow valve
Sick
tranquil ridge
you cant do much in xfce
slow valve
wtf after all that Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
tranquil ridge
whats the error
slow valve
f
tranquil ridge
screen short
slow valve
error: failed to commit transaction (unexpected error)
tranquil ridge
shift + ctrl + prtsc
slow valve
just tell me how to get sublime
tranquil ridge
why do u want sublime then
slow valve
to complete my project file duh
tranquil ridge
just open it in mouse pad then duh
somber belfry
you can still update arnav. I recommend it.
Your packages could break otherwise
slow valve
ok I will do it from the package manager
btw
to run script I do?
python <filename>.py?
slow valve
yea ok
slow valve
@tranquil ridge I have a Python Projects folder on the desktop
jovial island
Well maybe when I’m done I’ll mail you my book
tranquil ridge
cd to it
slow valve
how
jovial island
What’s your experience level? You think you’re at level 1, 2, or 3? @jovial island
I’m level 0.5
You working on any projects?
slow valve
@tranquil ridge never worked with terminal can you tell the command
tranquil ridge
cd Desktop/Python_Projects
jovial island
What are you guys working on @tranquil ridge
@jovial island what’s your most recent?
API?
celest tiger
Did you use flask ,django or other ?
jovial island
Is this all for fun or to make money? @jovial island
slow valve
ok worked @tranquil ridge
jovial island
@jovial island who do you work with? Americans?
tranquil ridge
@slow valve noice
slow valve
but
jovial island
@jovial island do they need another team member? I’ll work for free to learn
@jovial island damn that’s a long time
tranquil ridge
slow valve
will they even continue that project xD
jovial island
@jovial island okay that would be great. Like I said I’ll work for free!
School with corona still?
jovial island
Want to work on one together?
Just create one. Something simple to learn and possibly publish.
I’d say maybe a game or a simple script
Can you say the whole acronym?
I might have
slow valve
Object Oriented Programming
jovial island
Yes
slow valve
classes and stuff
jovial island
Ty
Ohhh quiz
Just messing
But
Instances are in the class and give it defining characters inherent to that class
slow valve
@jovial island classes are like blueprint and instances are objects of that class
jovial island
Bad definition? I learned about it building a class for cars and electric cars
slow valve
so basically instances and objects are same thing
yea but you can understand like that
so suppose weapon is a class
then the part of that weapon maybe be refereed as objects and maybe the type of weapon is instance
jovial island
Right okay
I understand I said it bad I guess
I’d say using “parts” as term for instances is a little off. My thought was it as characters or attributes to a specific object or objects
Like I learned self.miles in a class for Cars in an instance which wouldn’t make it exactly a part
rotund swallow
ohh @full summit i didn't know your team placed top 3 in both of the jams that u guys competed in.
That's impressive
full summit
haha thanks
radiant socket
attributes aren't instances @jovial island
jovial island
@radiant socket shit okay. Can you explain it to me? Like let’s use his example of a class for Guns. Class Gun. Attributes would be the barrel size or mag size? Then when you create an instance you create the class?
Howdy
rotund swallow
"class is blueprint to make weapons
and instance is the constructed weapons"
NICE EXPLANATION I REALLY MEAN IT @jovial island
let's move to #python-discussion
radiant socket
@full summit since you were here recently, rust's closures are even worse than python's :/
full summit
yeah i know
radiant socket
yeah
full summit
how is it worse?
somber belfry
hey, you listen to the pastaman
radiant socket
it's unsettling
full summit
that's why i'm asking
somber belfry
if he says it's worse, it's worse
full summit
unsettling? lol
somber belfry
Does anyone else feel unsettled, pastaman?
radiant socket
nice hat vivek
somber belfry
hahaha thank you
jovial island
oh i just realized that psvm was pastaman
tranquil ridge
yes sire
radiant socket
that's me
slow valve
21:04 means 9:04 pm right xD
radiant socket
subtract 12
pallid violet
radiant socket
did you need to post that 3 times @pallid violet
pallid violet
yep
tranquil ridge
cringe
pallid violet
......?
tranquil ridge
=)
jade sapphire
Does anyone else appreciate the new Python logos for the server? Because I do! Whoever takes time out of their day to make these cool GIF logos, Thank You So Much... it just brightens my day to see a new Python logo!
nova ember
@jade sapphire heyo! It’s usually some of us who hang out in #dev-branding. Come check it out if you’re interested in seeing the progress. It’s usually lemon, kutiekatj9 and I who do most of the such work, but I know kosayoda, scragly and a few others also do a lot. Anyone can help out though. Thanks for the message 😄
deep saddle
how come sometimes i dont get a response on a help channel ?
jovial island
That could be because of quite a few factors
deep saddle
i guess this is peak time for them ?
nova ember
We’re all volunteers here. The answer race we have here is incredible, considering that no one gets a penny to help out
@deep saddle But here is probably the most important part: Improve the question (check out https://pydis.com/pages/asking-good-questions)
It can also be a problem if no one knowing, but that’s not as common
deep saddle
hummm i see
are there any cheap beginner debugging help sites anyone would recommend ?
primal comet
i think it is sometimes about questions being to complicated.
try to keep your questions as simple as you can.
primal comet
its back tick. @deep saddle
deep saddle
next to 1 key?
primal comet
yes
deep saddle
ty
deep saddle
cool ty man
fluid plank
@tranquil ridge definitely cringe
halcyon blaze
do you guy find listening to music while working make you more productive?
celest field
No. For me, at least.
timid crown
!warn @severe socket You were already told not to dump random images here. Take staff instructions seriously.
clever salmonBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @severe socket.
severe socket
LOLOLOLOLOLO
full summit
!tempmute 626165598384291847 3d Responding with "LOLOLOLOLOLO" to a warning is not taking staff instructions seriously.
wheat aurora
@halcyon blaze It'll help me get in the zone or a flow state. It tends to be 1 song on repeat though
clever salmonBOT
:x: According to my records, this user already has a mute infraction. See infraction #19894.
full summit
oh
radiant socket
It'll help me get in the zone or a flow state. It tends to be 1 song on repeat though
@wheat aurora same lol, i pick a song to listen to on repeat
gilded herald
floral trout
anyone got link on java official discord if ever there is one? Cant seem to find any on disboard
primal comet
it’s java together
somber night
I have 1 screwed up windows 10 install and another partition with unbuntu on it
I cant seem to re install windows because it says no bootable device found when I try to boot with my windows 10 flashed drive
I flashed this multiple times
fluid plank
never mess the boot efi partition for windows again
slow valve
@fluid plank I can't even do that if I want to lol
fluid plank
yeah we learned something. i actually know that would happen yesterday but i wasnt entirely sure
fluid plank
Well I never needed win anyway
@slow valve u nuked it?
so you saved the files
and then you nuked it
slow valve
I am still backing up and then re install Manjaro with all the space lol
fluid plank
windows 7 wont be supported anyway
slow valve
Yea
fluid plank
End of Life sadness
fluid plank
i am a risk taker. kinda funny that linux kernel 5.10 worked fine
even though it has not been officially released yet
slow valve
lol
upbeat sandal
hi
wicked hollow
even though we can draw a distinction between CS and SE, I think some institutions pick one of the two names somewhat arbitrarily and teach whatever blend of CS theory and software design stuff they feel like.
@upbeat sandal I think that's definitely true, in part because SE is a bullshit engineering, because no one has figured out how to do this well yet.
upbeat sandal
@wicked hollow you just have to make classes and encaps it and single responsibility
wicked hollow
it's not "engineering", not really, because in engineering your artisinal, bespoke solutions would get you fired from your firm. People figured out 2 or 3 good ways to build bridges, and everyone uses one of them.
upbeat sandal
I'm presenting some stuff to the upper-level engineering faculty this week and I'm already stressing over how much shared vocabulary there will really be with the non-CS crowd.
when I say "presenting to the upper-level engineering faculty", I mean I'm going to present my slides to the dean and she's going to give me a pat on the head.
and that's probably about it.
wicked hollow
heh
to be clear, I think SE is probably more useful than CS if you want a job in industrydoing software development. Actual CS isn't that useful outside of academia, frankly. Knowing how to divide behavior between classes is more useful than knowing how to implement a parser, or traverse a graph, or understand finite automata...
upbeat sandal
anyway, CS is definitely the odd one out. But it's still applying science and math to design stuff.
well, I agree that graph traversal or DFAs aren't useful for designing software in industry
as for whether or not certain things are only useful in academia, well, academia has its place
wicked hollow
sure, absolutely. I have friends who are academics, and we have much fun laughing about their tiny salaries and abusive relationships their PIs.
😄
upbeat sandal
@wicked hollow next you're going to tell me that you have friends who belong to other marginalized groups
wicked hollow
Yes, academia is useful, but - a bachelor's degree ought to prepare you for something other than a masters' degree. And I don't think a CS degree does, not very well at least.
upbeat sandal
no, it doesn't
people sign up for CS degrees because they want to go to programming trade school
and the alternative is to do online coding bootcamps that everyone laughs at
wicked hollow
yeah. And realistically, a programming trade school would be a better use of their time and money in lots of cases.
upbeat sandal
I'm glad I took the traditional CS route because the research I've done is valuable
but if I didn't get to do research, I'd very much doubt the value of all this
slow valve
Is CS Degree worth?
upbeat sandal
@slow valve that's a very strong "depends" from me
wicked hollow
the bootcamp situation is interesting. A CS degree doesn't prepare people well for a software development job in industry, so large companies have large training departments designed to teach CS graduates how to write maintainable software. My impression is that bootcamps don't produce worse developers, just developers with different blind spots - all theory, no practice, versus all practice, no theory.
slow valve
How much does CS Degree affect job opportunities
azure current
Yes, academia is useful, but - a bachelor's degree ought to prepare you for something other than a masters' degree. And I don't think a CS degree does, not very well at least.
@wicked hollow Degrees are massively overrated
We should be moving away from degrees as a necessity
They are good for academia and a select few fields where you need a specific curriculum/education
wicked hollow
it is much easier to get a job in industry given a degree, as things stand today. I know professional developers without degrees, but I know a lot more professional developers with degrees. There is an easier path to a job in industry with a degree.
azure current
I'm talking more broadly
That something needs to change because the idea having a degree makes you good at working (in most professions) is absolute garbage
wicked hollow
oh, I agree with you in a the broad, societal sense.
but if Arnav's reason for asking is "I want to be a programmer, should I get a CS degree".... well, it's complicated.
azure current
It needs big companies to stop hiring based on degrees
slow valve
I think degree should not matter the capabilities of that person and how much he knows should matter
azure current
In all fields
wicked hollow
I'd say "yes, at a university with mandatory internships". My school had 3 mandatory 6 month internships over a 5 year program, and I think they made all the difference between it being worthwhile and not. I graduated with a much better appreciation for what I was getting into, and an understanding of what I enjoy and don't, and skills that were much better than my peers from other schools.
azure current
Unless you are working in a more senior role I don't even think how much you know matters
The biggest thing in a job is how quickly you can learn
And how well you actually work
wicked hollow
yes, once you have the job - but for getting hired, as things stand today...
slow valve
Yea internships paid or non paid are good way to learn
azure current
And frankly by the time you're senior enough for what you know to matter, your degree no longer does
slow valve
and know the working environment
azure current
Unpaid internships should be illegal
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL THEIR FREEDOM
WORK BITCHES WORK
slow valve
Well not illegal if it is with the consent of the person doing it
slow valve
xD what
fluid plank
and should be
azure current
The same way that a minimum wage shouldn't be able to be circumvented
Because then it becomes defacto the standard
fluid plank
xD what
@slow valve you dont get it
azure current
You shouldn't have a system which encourages people to debase themselves like that
fluid plank
imagine getting work and not being paid
storm birch
I would pay someone to give me pro experience at this point
fluid plank
internships are like that i guess
azure current
Or which lends itself to people with ample means being able to get the opportunities because they can afford not to be paid
Welcome to the "rich get richer" attitude which America has taken to extremis
slow valve
It is technically illegal but not declared illgeal
azure current
They've convinced you that it is normal and acceptable to do unpaid work
upbeat sandal
well, I do put in quite a bit of time to (hopefully) helping out around here for free
storm birch
Or which lends itself to people with ample means being able to get the opportunities because they can afford not to be paid
this is a really interesting topic and there are actually good studies on this. Particularly on racial discrepancies in journalists
upbeat sandal
what's the difference?
wicked hollow
it's legal, under some relatively restricted circumstances. Unpaid internships are only legal if the company doesn't benefit from your work, essentially.
fluid plank
i see
slow valve
Yea
upbeat sandal
how do they determine whether or not they benefit?
storm birch
what's the difference?
@upbeat sandal pydis is a bad example, I get paid in hemlock's soothing voice
upbeat sandal
and how do they have to prove that they don't benefit?
slow valve
Well they find loop holes
upbeat sandal
hemlock's soothing voice
@storm birch implying that my voice isn't soothing
slow valve
So they make illegal legal
upbeat sandal
banend
slow valve
If you know what I mean
azure current
Helping out here is totally incomparable to an unpaid internship
If you stopped it wouldn't affect you materially
storm birch
@upbeat sandal I was genuinely going to include you in the list, but the hemlock thing made for a better one-liner
azure current
If you decided to just walk away from an unpaid internship 100% a company will probably blackball you
upbeat sandal
@storm birch keep your eyes on the ot names. That's all I'm gonna say.
wicked hollow
how do they determine whether or not they benefit?
@upbeat sandal Essentially, unpaid internships are supposed to be a way for companies to train new workers up. But they must be used as a training program, not as unpaid labor. Interns must be losing the company money, rather than making the company money. Basically.
But yes, this is obviously hard to enforce.
storm birch
LOL, ot name threats
upbeat sandal
it's not really a threat. I just added an ot name to memorialize what you said.
wicked hollow
a company will probably blackball you
Blackballing isn't really blackballing if it's one company, FWIW. The thing that makes blackballing bad even in a capitalist system is that it's anticompetitive; companies that are competitors collude to all avoid hiring someone.
azure current
The reasons to have unpaid internships are basically non-existent
Blackballing isn't really blackballing if it's one company, FWIW. The thing that makes blackballing bad even in a capitalist system is that it's anticompetitive; companies that are competitors collude to all avoid hiring someone.
@wicked hollow You think companies don't talk?
Good luck explaining that gap on your CV when you were slaving at an unpaid internship that went bad.
storm birch
well the reason is that companies that would not otherwise hire someone with such little experience, will essentially hire someone to give them more experience. It becomes a necessity when the system becomes so competitive.
fluid plank
🧃 + c
azure current
well the reason is that companies that would not otherwise hire someone with such little experience, will essentially hire someone to give them more experience. It becomes a necessity when the system becomes so competitive.
@storm birch Pay them though
Unpaid work should not be necessary to get a job
storm birch
well, many companies literally would not hire otherwise, so the position would just be nonexistent if they had to pay
azure current
If you have been convinced otherwise you are foolish
storm birch
Unpaid work should not be necessary to get a job
I very much agree with this though
wicked hollow
@wicked hollow You think companies don't talk?
@azure current By and large, yeah. Companies don't take their competitors' advice about who they should hire.
azure current
I mean that's what references literally are
I've never had a job that didn't require them
azure current
No
wicked hollow
Wales, perhaps, heh
storm birch
on the other hand, if a company hired me to do devops for them, their entire system would be destroyed in a matter of hours.
So I need work experience. But no one should pay me to be bad.
So an "apprenticeship" makes sense
it is also a system that is as old as economies
fluid plank
azure current
You invest in people
celest field
I don't see many unpaid internships here
storm birch
if you want to be a blacksmith, you dont get paid to do what the local blacksmith can do 100x better. Instead, you are paid by the experience of being an apprentice, maybe a little money thrown in, with the goal that you are experienced enough someday to do the job yourself
wicked hollow
so - in the US, references aren't really a thing anymore, because companies are terrified of libel lawsuits if they say anything subjective about your time there. So, in practice, all any company will say is "So and so worked here from 2010 to 2015", and maybe "and was paid $x per year"
azure current
if you want to be a blacksmith, you dont get paid to do what the local blacksmith can do 100x better. Instead, you are paid by the experience of being an apprentice, maybe a little money thrown in, with the goal that you are experienced enough someday to do the job yourself
@storm birch But if the blacksmith wants a good apprentice, he should pay
People need to start valuing themselves ffs
storm birch
why should nasa pay undergrads to stand around and stare at their windtunnel? they could easily hire someone with a masters+ to do a better job for them
azure current
Instead of being allowed/encouraged to debase themselves for no pay
why should nasa pay undergrads to stand around and stare at their windtunnel? they could easily hire someone with a masters+ to do a better job for them
@storm birch They should be paying to invest in talented grads..
storm birch
maybe the blacksmith should, but that has never been how it actually is. Historically it is a privileges to learn from someone with experience.
azure current
Not hiring grads to do something pointless
upbeat sandal
@storm birch I'm not sure what specific wages you have in mind, but I don't think saying people with more experience deserve to be paid more is controversial
wicked hollow
But no one should pay me to be bad.
Ya know, that's driven by the market, in a capitalist society. They shouldn't pay you to be bad if they could pay someone else to be good, but if they can't, then it's a perfectly rational move on their part to pay you to be bad in belief that they can make you become good.
upbeat sandal
the real question is where the floor should be.
storm birch
well, in california, a livable wage is like 60K salary, and no company is going to pay that for someone who cant really do their job fully
upbeat sandal
that's an upstream problem, then
storm birch
if I made 60k here, I would MAYBE be able to afford a mobile home in a trailer park
celest field
A condo for me, at least here
storm birch
yeah, I could maybe find a condo haha
but like, 2.5K a month for a one bedroom, no company is going to pay that to someone without experience, which is why we have minimum wage and unpaid internships
wicked hollow
there absolutely are companies in California that pay 60K to people who can't really do the job
upbeat sandal
the government and the economy as a whole need to serve the needs of the people, and if paying someone for a minimum standard of living isn't feasible for a large portion of a population (let alone even a single able person), that's a system-wide problem.
dense chasm
what melee weapons should I add to my dungeon word game
celest field
That's a lot lol. I'm talking like 150k condo. That's livable by 50k+ wage.
storm birch
there absolutely are companies in California that pay 60K to people who can't really do the job
@wicked hollow lolol, well yeah, but that is another problem LOL
azure current
I'd argue there are probably a lot of people who can't do their job properly being paid a lot more than that
upbeat sandal
@dense chasm we're having a conversation about something else. see if there's another ot channel available.
storm birch
#ot1-this-regex-is-impossible should be good
dense chasm
Alrighty
azure current
In so many ways America is a failed state.
wicked hollow
"failed state" has a pretty specific meaning that does not apply to America.
upbeat sandal
the government still has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force in the minds of the majority of Americans
wicked hollow
yeah, that. a failed state is one where the government has lost control over territory.
upbeat sandal
would I be optimistic about America if current trends hold? not really
storm birch
chaz
upbeat sandal
however I think this election has proven that our democracy is even more secure than we thought
wicked hollow
I don't disagree with the broader point about where America is on a good trajectory or is a post-capitalist hellscape, but it's not a failed state. 🙂
storm birch
all lovely sentiment
upbeat sandal
the current president can't prove that any election fraud has occurred anywhere in the country, in the largest election we've ever had.
storm birch
how did this get political xD
upbeat sandal
inability, or choosing not to because of an underinformed electorate?
wicked hollow
"The president now has more flagged tweets than electoral votes", heh
upbeat sandal
by underinformed, I mean willfully ignorant.
storm birch
I would love to get any internship haha, they are ALL so competitive that it just makes sense for companies not to pay.
Is this a horrible shortcoming of capitalism? Probably
azure current
No its a shortcoming of America's obsession with deregulation
wicked hollow
how did this get political xD
We hit rallying for a living wage and anti-capitalism a while ago. It's been political for a minute. 😉
azure current
You can have capitalism and still have regulation of things like minimum wages
wicked hollow
sure, fine - restraints on capitalism.
upbeat sandal
No its a shortcoming of America's obsession with deregulation
@azure current exactly. America probably has the power to provide any American citizen with any necessity. We just choose not to.
wicked hollow
I live in the poorest major city in the richest country in history. 🤷
upbeat sandal
That's a design flaw. It doesn't mean we lack the ability to provide services.
!warn 727402153156673556 Don't dump copypastas in our server. It's always spam, even once.
clever salmonBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @oblique scroll.
fluid plank
wtf
full summit
!tempmute 727402153156673556 7d Spamming chainmail across several channels.
clever salmonBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @oblique scroll until 2020-11-24 03:52 (6 days and 23 hours).
full summit
yeah, no
slow valve
F
upbeat sandal
Fine by me.
celest field
Whoa
celest field
Well he probably was going to ignore that warning
upbeat sandal
Let's not let him ruin our chat
If America couldn't get clean water even if it wanted to, that would be one thing
(and I know Flint is a terrible counterexample)
wicked hollow
heh, beat me to it
storm birch
lol, flint was just on a power trip
upbeat sandal
I don't know the details of that situation but my understanding is that it was poor planning and a heavy dose of disregard for the locals.
storm birch
yeah, pretty much
wicked hollow
Flint is still a mess, is the interesting thing about that. The water system was so badly damaged that 6 years later they still don't have clean water.
azure current
I just don't know how so many people can be persuaded that wage suppression is good for them
wicked hollow
And it's not the worst city for water safety in the country, just the most famous.
azure current
Like, "but if we had a minimum wage small businesses would go under/be unable to afford staff"
Maybe that's a sign your business is not viable
upbeat sandal
I just don't know how so many people can be persuaded that wage suppression is good for them
@azure current so I'm in a bit of an awkward spot: I only get paid ten dollars an hour for my research, but the fact that I get to do it at the expense of any other undergrad who could have this position and get the experience makes it worth it to me
but I also have other income
azure current
Avoiding the failure of your business due to the market deciding it's not really viable by not paying your workers is some serious mental gymnastics for lovers of a free-market
upbeat sandal
and I don't actually know how much I could be paid before the university decides that undergrads can't do research
that's a bit of an edge case though
wicked hollow
well, sorta. Academia is practically slave labor, but it's such a tiny portion of the overall economy that it's not an interesting area to focus on.
azure current
@upbeat sandal That's a shambles in the US where Universities are basically megacorp money farms
wicked hollow
how are universities tied to megacorps?
storm birch
they do behave similarly imo
wicked hollow
I think it's the opposite - universities are subsidized by public money, not private.