see the thing is
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
sand goblet
this isn't the first time I heard about this
in fact the first time I heard about it was several years ago
frosty berry
that alone upset me too much to read the whole thing, so i shut it off and planned to avoid commenting
sand goblet
when someone decided to use a botnet to spam IRC networks about it
autumn night
LOL i remember that
autumn night
@vestal briar stallman wrote some of the early GNU tools, as well as TECO and its successor Emacs, and was an important Lisp contributor in the MIT AI lab in the 70s
frosty berry
i saw a link pointing to an old entry on his website about a political party for the legalisation of pedophilia, and he had a comment about it that was quite clear
autumn night
yeesh
sand goblet
that was linked above
frosty berry
ah right
sand goblet
frosty berry
yep
autumn night
was it qualified somehow? or was it straight up you can have sex with 15 year olds and its cool
sand goblet
the quote:
I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.
sand goblet
yep I'm with you there meta
autumn night
which... could have merit. but needs more qualification? like if you're 18 you shouldnt go to prison for having sex with your 17 year old girlfriend
i think we can all agree on that
where i suspect stallman would try to cover his ass is, by saying "well a 40 year old man and a 15 year old girl is clearly coercive"
sand goblet
There's not nearly enough qualification for that
autumn night
right
sand goblet
and anyway he's qualified it in other ways elsewhere
autumn night
just like how he covers his ass w/ free software saying "you can charge for libre software" knowing that its pretty unrealistic to do so
frosty berry
i get what he's trying to say, and you can always debate about the exact age where people start to be able to consent, but if you say the word, then you mean children, and children are obviously unable to
sand goblet
don't forget what he said about epstein
autumn night
right, exactly @frosty berry
even if he isnt a pedophile, dude fucked up in a big way
golden walrus
I think Stallman doesn't understand arbitrary rules are useful
frosty berry
i guess it's a matter of personal freedom to him, but seriously, this has been tried in the 70s, treating children as responsible adults, and if that implies sexuality, so be it, and these now grown up children say it was really bad
autumn night
^
sand goblet
True that
autumn night
the whole premise of the age of consent is that, below a certain age, you are not able to consent
golden walrus
there are many situations it's impossible to draw the line, we have those to respect them and show we're not freaking subhumans
sand goblet
These rules very wildly across the planet as well, even in the US
frosty berry
a hard line is always going to be arbitrary, a lot of 15Β years old certainly feel they are ready, and act on it
sand goblet
the lowest age of consent in the US is 12, iirc, with some Ts&Cs
rough sapphire
14 in estonia
frosty berry
but older adults should know they should take no part of it
autumn night
right
sand goblet
Yeah, you're right
autumn night
if you want more intelligent age of consent laws, build in some special cases for small age gaps, but add additional teeth for bizarro fucked up sex cult stuff that might happen using age gaps as a loophole
i assume such laws already exist in some jurisdictions in the US
12 is ... young
youre not even an adult at 12 according to a 4,000 year old religion
that shit aint right
sand goblet
It was like 8 years ago that this was explained to me, but it was something like this
someone I knew living in rhode island explained that the age of consent has two brackets there
the first bracket is 12 - 17 years
and the second bracket is 18+
you can't "interfere" with another bracket
autumn night
that makes not a lot of sense
autumn night
gf turns 18 before i do, we have to stop boning until i turn 18?
sand goblet
That's what it sounds like doesn't it
autumn night
dog im 17, im like a dick with legs
autumn night
π
frosty berry
well, that's a lot of 17yo boys i guess, not all of them, but a lot
autumn night
yeah im stereotyping obviously but
autumn night
implying i was sexually desirable and active at 17
sand goblet
for more info on the stallman thing, there's this post https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec210794
frosty berry
yeah, i'm good, got all the info i needed
golden walrus
there's already a shitshow going on in the Stallman's article on Wikipedia
golden walrus
the discussion, actually
frosty berry
i read somewhere from a journalist that interviewed him that stallman paid in fake money in a restaurant they eat, because he had given so much to humanity, he didn't need to pay apparently
rough sapphire
On which system?
autumn night
prefer non-web-based, windows or linux or both
sand goblet
I use Newsblur
autumn night
(eventually i'll want to use both but i know i have more options on linux)
sand goblet
which is decidedly web based
frosty berry
hm, i liked newsbeuter, but i basically never open it π¬
sand goblet
I have newsblur open 24/7
frosty berry
so many thing to read already
sand goblet
because who closes their browser anyway
rough sapphire
are you.. are you following my feed, senpai
@sand goblet I close my browser when I'm not using it
sand goblet
rough sapphire
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
sand goblet
when are you not using your browser
rough sapphire
Good chunk of the day, actually
frosty berry
i like to pkill -STOP firefox to save battery
autumn night
its a crippled OS with a crippled window manager
rough sapphire
What is?
golden walrus
why?
autumn night
a web browser
golden walrus
oh
rough sapphire
Uh
sand goblet
I thought you meant emacs for a minute
golden walrus
I thought you were using a crippled OS
sand goblet
ChromeOS is really good, though
sand goblet
It runs on basically anything
rough sapphire
That's still a web browser, and it's not an OS.
sand goblet
you can run android or linux apps
rough sapphire
So you can understand the confusion.
rough sapphire
@sand goblet Except it's dead.
sand goblet
No it's not
rough sapphire
Isn't it?
frosty berry
it does smell dead
sand goblet
autumn night
why would i use a browser when i could use my window manager
sand goblet
KaiOS is a fork of Boot to Gecko, which was the open-source successor of FirefoxOS
rough sapphire
why would you use a window manager when you have tmux
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FirefoxOS - Last release 2.2.0 / April 29, 2015; 4 years ago
sand goblet
why would you use tmux when you have TTYs
autumn night
@rough sapphire tfw sometimes i just Ctrl+Alt+F2 and use tmux instead of starting a window manager
sand goblet
the base project is dead
vapid bluff
wtf is firefoxos
sand goblet
the legacy is not
vapid bluff
was*
rough sapphire
legacy
autumn night
ive actually been compiling a collection of text-only software that would work with tmux as a "window manager". i got pretty far, but image viewers and video viewers don't work in a tmux pane
and theres no good text-mode browser that also handles javascript correctly
sand goblet
KaiOS is a mobile operating system based on Linux, owned by KaiOS Technologies, a US-based company. It is forked from B2G (Boot to Gecko), an open source community-driven successor of Firefox OS, which was discontinued by Mozilla in 2016.
rough sapphire
there was a browswer a while back which rendered in a tty but used chome headless as the backend
@sand goblet Yeah, anything that isn't Android or iOS is pretty much dead
autumn night
@rough sapphire i was just typing this as you posted: "i feel like you could nowadays use headless chrome w/ a 2-way pipe to some frontend"
sand goblet
Not true
rough sapphire
of course, visually it was garbage, as no normalisation was done to any of the elements, text etc so it was all a blurry mess
but it worked.. technically
sand goblet
It's relatively popular in emerging markets
undone berry
I know a few people who use KaiOS
sand goblet
and also people that just want dumbphones
vapid bluff
rip in pepperonis ubuntu touch π
autumn night
what kind of normalization @rough sapphire
rough sapphire
@undone berry Doesn't mean it's any good
rough sapphire
as in, text was rendered using a text renderer, and not just straight to the tty
It's essentially dead
which means small text is literally unreadable unless you zoom in... a lot
Apps and developers on the platform are a big piece of what qualifies something as dead.
they migth've fixed that nowadays, haven't really checked recently
sand goblet
The primary features of KaiOS bring support for 4G LTE E, VoLTE, GPS and Wi-Fi with HTML5-based apps and longer battery life to non-touch devices with optimized user interface, less memory and energy consumption. It also features over-the-air updates. A dedicated app marketplace called KaiStore enables users to download applications. Some services are preloaded as HTML5 applications, including Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. The operating system is comparatively lightweight on hardware resource usage, and is able to run on devices with just 256 MB of memory.
seems pretty competent
rough sapphire
just
rough sapphire
OnePlus 7 Pro?
sand goblet
Yep
rough sapphire
Cool thing about the 7 Pro, it's also supported on LineageOS. But, we've already had this conversation π
sand goblet
I might like Oxygen
rough sapphire
all at the same time
sand goblet
we'll see
rough sapphire
Oxygen is actually decent
Eh, there's not much difference between the two
one of the better stock roms I've encountered
rough sapphire
I got rid of OOS because of the gapps, and how I don't use them.
rough sapphire
you can purge a system of gapps without having to nuke it btw
K9-Mail for a mail client, OSMAnd for maps
@rough sapphire Yeah, I don't really care about OOS though
that's fair
i can't afford to have my picture quality/speed to take a hit
What do you mean?
Oxygen's proprietary post processing algos are far better than those integrated in Cyanogen
er
whatever it's called nowadays
Proof?
sand goblet
it's called Lineage
rough sapphire
This is the first I'm hearing about this
autumn night
@rough sapphire do you remember the name of the project
also the iphone 8 has shitty image processing, everything looks HDRed even when its not
sand goblet
offtopic, but whatever happened to numix circle?
it's not on the play store anymore
I know the project died anyway, but
rough sapphire
reading the post, apparently the camera quality is better nowadays
vapid bluff
samsung utterly fucked their camera apps with the update to pie and beyond. removed pro mode, and now you have to swipe to activate video mode whereas before you had buttons for both video/still pic in one place
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire That post is from November 14, 2017
Anything more... up-to-date?
trust me dude, it's still worse, I tested it with my OP6T as soon as I got it
you can do some testing on your own
if you don't see a difference or care, don't feel bothered
i do though, and it does bother me
trust me dude isn't exactly proof, though.
I literally don't care enough to prove anything to you, I know this is the case and whether you decide to believe me or not is none of my problem
Okay
vestal briar
@autumn night Yeah, I was thinking of someone else by the look of it
solemn crown
frosty berry
π
vestal briar
Huh, apparently the safest age to be alive is 9 years old
~1/10000 die on average in the US (2003)
frosty berry
i was about to ask about the context of the assertion, because it certainly varies depending on place
vestal briar
Yeah
I think this is the average of the entire us
So certainly some anomalies in low and high
frosty berry
it kind of make sense actually
vestal briar
Yeah
frosty berry
2007, not very recent anymore
vestal briar
Still very innocent and sheltered from anything, got over any child deaths and built up immune system
frosty berry
these life line are quite something, damn
frosty berry
yeah, was looking at that as well
vestal briar
If you are born a white female you have ~10 years more life then a black male
In 2003 that is
frosty berry
this evolution on 0-5yo? i might be wrong but i would guess vaccines played a role⦠probably the amount of available food as well.
vestal briar
Yeah
In 1900-1902 it's a massive kink
And 50s was a smaller but still noticable one
tame pier
rough sapphire
g'morn'n
golden walrus
hey
rough sapphire
hai
golden walrus
what time is it there?
rough sapphire
nine am
robust sierra
brave zealot
You don't, then explain you were in your death bed for ages
golden walrus
ok I just woke up
spent some good chunk of last night to draw design sketches so I'm tired
i don't like them but they are alright
rough sapphire
search bar says "apple design", but the toggle button, toast and plus button on bottom right scream material design
golden walrus
it's neither
but it's more material design
well, clearly
the toast is called a snack bar
the plus is a floating action button
actually
the seach bar is inspired by stuff made by Google though
sand goblet
Yeah but the icon is on the left
golden walrus
like in Google Drive
probably because they used a drop down menu to the right corner to add filters
I don't think that's specified by the guidelines though
I find it funny when Google puts a card inside a card
rough sapphire
okay, wireguard is awesome
like... way fucking awesome
i wish i tried it out sooner
sand goblet
I'm a fan of softether personally
Very, very flexible but with a user-friendly GUI and easy deployment
(Including configuration GUIs for both the client and for remote administration)
undone berry
How on earth is this a thing
undone berry
Its Virgin Media as well - essentially a tech company for christs sake
plucky ridge
Just because they work in tech doesn't mean they make good choices
summer rampart
undone berry
dear god
rough sapphire
it is real
summer rampart
it's real
rough sapphire
it, unfortunately, is very real
vapid bluff
jesus h christ
rough sapphire
they had a similar gem a while back where they claimed that storing passwords in plaintext is secure because "they are unhackable"
undone berry
Twitter
rough sapphire
or something to the sort
plucky ridge
What's the JGS
summer rampart
probably the rep
vapid bluff
name of rep?
rough sapphire
rep
plucky ridge
Ah, gotcha
One can only hope they aren't working there anymore or have been corrected
vapid bluff
this should be illegal
undone berry
I'm pretty sure it is. Part of the UK data protection act is storing data in a secure way
and if that went to court
I don't think theyd be able to argue its secure
vapid bluff
rather than having to sue afterwards when your identity and credit card details get stolen they shouldnt be allowed to make it this easy in the first place
sand goblet
I don't think the legislation covers mail
vapid bluff
ah i see piers (charlie?)
undone berry
Yeah, I mean the storing it in plaintext part is obviously not secure
rough sapphire
ah shit, my bad
vapid bluff
i think JGS may have been fired
Twitter
last one is from aug 22
four days after that mail tweet
summer rampart
welp
would be better for them to actually take action rather than fire some poor media rep though
rough sapphire
vestal briar
Is airdrop Bluetooth with some apple ui?
sand goblet
No
vestal briar
rough sapphire
which actually makes it safer than transferring via email
that's not really a high barrier to cross
plucky ridge
So it uses Bluetooth to find the compatible devices but uses an ad-hoc Wifi connection to actually do the transfer? Interesting
gentle moss
hah, safer than email
plucky ridge
I guess I misunderstood it when I read it
oak tangle
Sounds a bit like IPoAC, which includes air droppings as well
although IPoAC air dropping are quite nasty
autumn night
@sand goblet distrotube is saying stallman was misquoted and is being smeared
rough sapphire
@autumn night 100% isn't misquoted lol
autumn night
yep i stand corrected
rough sapphire
Which is a little worrying, as that paints him in a far different light.
autumn night
apparently hes on record saying age of consent should be 14
sand goblet
the whole debate itself is pretty tricky and it's hard not to annoy/upset people
but the guy is clearly looking at things the wrong way
gentle moss
is this stallman?
sand goblet
yeah
gentle moss
definitely not an opinion i expected to hear ever
golden walrus
what's the FSF gonna do about it? that's my question
golden walrus
mmm
gentle moss
they'll take him out like epstein
vestal briar
golden walrus
Stallman is a strong image for the "libre" software community
gentle moss
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
golden walrus
he's giving it a bad image basically
vestal briar
Well obviously
sand goblet
I mean he did try to tell people Epstein wasn't/isn't a pedophile
so he's already kinda fucked
vestal briar
Yeah
sand goblet
it's interesting that this is picking up steam now
frosty berry
i agree that part of the quote is not interpreted in the way i would have, and is not as generous as could be, but there is enough stuff elsewhere that are direct quote from him that are problematic
frosty berry
obviously if someone tells you they are consenting, and you don't have a reason to disbelieve them, and you don't know about their age and the legal problem it poses, then even if there is rape, there is no intent to, so i don't know if it's a crime in that situation
frosty berry
(but there is absolutely a victim)
vestal briar
And it's legally rape
frosty berry
well, it's where i think it gets complicated, i would think intent is necessary to constitute rape, on the side of the perpetrator, if they don't know of all the details that make it rape (coertion and age), then there is no intent to commit a crime, and the action can seem legitimate to the best of their knowlege
but of course i'm not a lawyer, and i don't know if it's what RMS was saying, but that's what i think he said, and that's pretty different from what others interpreted from his words
frosty berry
He just resigned from his mit post
vestal briar
Oh dear
autumn night
Does he really think that Minsky thought some 17 year old girl just wanted to bone
Thats what it comes down to, its such a blatant rationalization of the fact that his mentor took advantage of epstein's sex slaves
rough sapphire
oh god why
we will be using negative integers for ipv4 before we collectively move to ipv6
grave phoenix
Negative?
rough sapphire
-64.-42.0.1
it's a joke
it obviously won't work since IP uses unsigned integers
summer rampart
introducing ipv4butnotreally, with ips such as -64.-42.0.1 and a.b.4.c
solid pollen
"I use arch BTW".. Who said that? It wasn't from Joseph right?
rough sapphire
it's a very popular meme
solid pollen
Very peculiar meme
sand goblet
I'm the one they credit with it on this server, but I'm not the first
But someone screenshotted me saying it and posted it to r/linuxmemes
vestal briar
RMS resigned from FSF and MIT
golden walrus
https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#16_September_2019_(Resignation) this mentions the MIT
add the missing character (well, it's his last entry anyway)
To the MIT community,
I am resigning effective immediately from my position in CSAIL at MIT. I am doing this due to pressure on MIT and me over a series of misunderstandings and mischaracterizations.
Richard Stallman
sand goblet
Hmm
vestal briar
Friend told me about FSF, can't get source as on phone
golden walrus
vestal briar
Ah yep
sand goblet
Hmm
golden walrus
On September 16, 2019, Richard M. Stallman, founder and president of the Free Software Foundation, resigned as president and from its board of directors.
The board will be conducting a search for a new president, beginning immediately. Further details of the search will be published on fsf.org.
For questions, contact FSF executive director John Sullivan atΒ johns@fsf.org.
sand goblet
If this is mayhem then it's pretty organised
sand goblet
Hardly
gentle moss
"mayhem"
even if he just miscommunicated something really badly and he doesn't have the opinions that can be inferred from his statement
he is definitely not FSF president material, just because of that inability to communicate
vestal briar
frosty berry
he was for historical reasons, it's like replacing a funder that got a company to an international business level, by a new CEO because that one is not what a board wants, it makes sense but unless the funder made big mistakes, it seems harsh on them, waiting for the big mistake to happen might seem crazy, but it's fairer to the funder, as it's their company after all.
it wasn't his first misstep for sure, but i guess it's the first one that got to this level.
vestal briar
Yeah
half spoke
sand goblet
I mean it's hardly a surprise given what's been going on
This needed to happen years ago, but now at least there is a real public reason for it
really surprised how bad this thread is. how do you think itβs appropriate to use your work email to discuss the fine details of rape vs consent and sexual assault vs sexual harassment. and just the way he belittles anyone who doesnβt agree with him to the point others have to remind him like hey, we work with you, stop being a dick.
i especially like the post saying maybe we shouldnβt discuss this on this mailing list if it were to leak something bad could happen.
RMS: hold my toe jam
vestal briar
Yummy toe jam
sand goblet
That was a hilarious comment
Shame I can't bronze or silver the comment with this app haha
Oh jeez, there are more quotes in this thread
28 June 2003 ()
Dubya has nonimated another caveman for a federal appeals court. Refreshingly, the Democratic Party is organizing opposition.
[Reference updated on 2018-05-10 because the old link was broken.]The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, "prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia" also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally--but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness.
Had to sanitize that because reddit markdown
Jesus fuck RMS what is wrong with you
wooden silo
Sounds like someone so enamored with themselves that they've grown out of touch with reality.
sand goblet
Honestly that probably isn't too far from the truth
I'm so done with this now
Jeez
oak tangle
He isn't exactly known for being an agreeable person anyway, regardless of the topic. It's his view or nothing, even in regards to things like FOSS. He's got quite a few rants about how other OSS initiatives are not truly FOSS.
I guess you need a bit of that to pioneer something, but if you combine that trait with the topics above, big oof
wooden silo
It's just sad for him to self-destruct his legacy.
Any of his achievements will have this hanging over it from now on.
sand goblet
Yeah, I mean, I already didn't like him. This just kind of cements things for me.
I never agreed with anyone that romanticised Gnu either though
wooden silo
To some extent I can overlook people being unpleasant as people for the sake of their contributions to societal and technological progress, but being rude and having despicable political opinions is qualitatively different.
oak tangle
I can only comment from what I read, but I have no real way of sieving out the truth from the hear-say and gossip. If a substantial part of what's being repeated around the Internet is truthful, I don't exactly feel sad for him losing face personally. That said, I do try to judge the things that he achieved separately from the person who achieved them. Even if the individual is unpleasent, their contributions can still be great and we can still recognize the importance of the one who contributed to those achievements.
sand goblet
I agree with that
The quote above is from his own site, so I'd say it's as close to a true source as you'll get
He has done a lot for the community but I would say it's long past the time we should have moved on as well
The future is now, old man
vestal briar
Yeah
oak tangle
A general debate about social norms in open source was long in the making, even if we disregard sexism for a moment (which is a topic about norms in general)
Just look at those "best of" website about open source newsgroups mailinglists
oak tangle
No, but that's not really the point. If you look at "the best of Linus", it's mostly examples of him trying to completely destroy another person because the other person dared to do something that's different from Linus' standards
sand goblet
Oh, I see
Yeah I dunno really
In my study of codes of conduct I think a lot of communities have a long way to go
There's always tribalism but it never helps
It still baffles me that some communities have exclusionary codes of conduct and think it's totally fine because it only excludes people they see as having it good
frosty berry
at least linus admited he had a problem, after years of people telling him he was toxic, i don't know how things are since he got back, hopefuly he's more careful
sand goblet
That's true
autumn night
Wait, read the quote again
We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates.
I go back-and-forth on this
Question of course is, did Minsky know that Epstein had a harem of sex slaves? Stallman is saying that there's no way he could've known
frosty berry
at the very least he says that he might not have known
and that if epstein was smart, he would have done his best for this not to be known
autumn night
Right, that minsky knowing would be a low probability thing
Yeah
Someone on Reddit is saying that for Stallman to actually be pressured out of his jobs at MIT and FSF there must be more to the story
frosty berry
i think even if on this exact case some people misinterpret him, there is enough backstory to make him go, he's said worse things before
i agree this quote on its own shouldn't be enough
autumn night
Exactly
frosty berry
but i think the words "presented herself as entirely willing" can be interpreted in various ways
although the one that seems obvious to me also seems entirely acceptable as an argument to me, if you think it means she showed up on her own will, then that's different
and i think some people interepreted it that way, although i don't think that's the intended meaning
wooden silo
I find it pretty icky that Minsky would be having relations with such young girls under any circumstance, though.
frosty berry
yes, but icky is not illegal
wooden silo
Well, if they are 17 it is.
wooden silo
No.
frosty berry
because that's what makes it legal or not
wooden silo
I think it's unethical even in the legal case.
frosty berry
(in this juridiction)
i kind of agree a 80 yo, probably shouldn't have sex with a 18 or even 20 years old, but on the other hand, if they are both willing, i don't see how i could tell them not to
i think 18 is a bit high for a consent age for humans
but i'm of course biased by the laws of my country, and the practices of people i know
solid pollen
The consent age depend on the country
frosty berry
yes i know, hence it being a very subjective thing
solid pollen
18 is a bit high yeah
wooden silo
18 might be high if the other party is also very young, but I don't feel like it's high when the other party is 20+ years older.
I don't think an 18-year old is fully emotionally and intellectually developed. It's way too easy to take advantage.
frosty berry
in france it's around 15 and i find that fair, as there are a lot of things to prevent 15 years old being abused by adults, but it's hard to say it's the good age, you'll find 13 years old of any gender that had sex with others of the same age and are fine, and you'll find 17 yo that did and weren't ready. Any line is going to be arbitrary, so i think using the same word to discuss sex with a 17yo and sex with a < 13 yo, is not practical
solid pollen
In france the age of consent depend on the sex : 15 for girls and 16 for boys if i remember corretly
wooden silo
It's 15 here too, iirc. But unless the other party is also in the same age range, you walk a very fine line legally speaking.
It's mostly so low so that young people having sex with each other won't be charged with statutory rape
Not so that older people can have sex with teenagers.
frosty berry
@solid pollen french here too, that's why i said "around 15" because it's not exactly 15 but 15 and 3 months iirc for girls
solid pollen
I agree with mister tshirtman the age of consent also depend on the people, some are more βmatureβ than others
frosty berry
the fact that we have laws that prohibit it happening when there is a subordination link between the two parties seems like a good safeguard to me
it certainly wouldn't have helped in the case we discuss though, as there was no direct causation
but i think the crime is mostly on epstein on this one, it was a bad idea, but maybe not a crime for minsky
(assuming he didn't know)
if he did, that's obviously a crime, nothing to discuss
wooden silo
Here it would be illegal for an older person to have relations with a person 15-18 if they have a "position of dependence", such as if the older person is a parent, guardian or teacher.
frosty berry
yeah, same here
solid pollen
Thatβs logic
wooden silo
Besides that, any court is going to set the bar of consent very high for any older person having relations with a very young person, even if they are older than 15.
Like, even the slightest hint of manipulation or grooming is going to be judged harshly.
frosty berry
seems like a good idea to see an ID before getting down to it if there is any doubt, but that's not the time we are the most rational π¬
@wooden silo but, to play devil's advocate, i think that's exactly what stallman denounces as closed mindedness, although there is no law prohibitting it, the court is going to punish because they find it icky
wooden silo
I think erring on the side of caution with this is the right course of action.
frosty berry
the issue is that it's very hard to define a clear line, so we rely on humans deciding if it's ok or not, and you can always find someone that disagree with the decision
i would agree on caution
wooden silo
I'm not gonna cry over a 40-year old not getting to bang teenagers if it means a few extra teenagers are protected from sexual manipulation.
frosty berry
if you are 50+, you should be used to these things by now, and have some control over yourself, be able to pass on the occasion if it's likely to be a problem
vestal briar
60 now, no?
frosty berry
he was much older than that
vestal briar
Wait who is this?
frosty berry
i think 70+
wooden silo
Yeah, but I mean in general.
frosty berry
minsky
vestal briar
The one that died at 85?
frosty berry
yes
vestal briar
From 40 to 85
frosty berry
oh, did that last 45 years?
frosty berry
ah no, he was much more on the side of 85 when that happened
vestal briar
Oh
solid pollen
Who are you talking about ?
frosty berry
minsky
vestal briar
Minsky
wooden silo
I wasn't talking about anybody in particular with my comment.
But yes, Minsky would be included in that.
rough sapphire
i use arch btw
summer rampart
cool
grave phoenix
I use arch btw
oak tangle
!otn a i-use-windows-btw
royal lakeBOT
:ok_hand: Added i-use-windows-btw to the names list.
rough sapphire
i use templeos btw
frosty berry
still happy with ubuntu π
(if what i use can still be called ubuntu after all the changes i make to it)
vestal briar
I use relatively stock ubuntu
lime gazelle
From 0 to 10 how shitty is a service desk position for someone that wants to become a sysadmin?
The service desk handles windows stuff btw
lime gazelle
It's first level too, not 2 or 3
vestal briar
I'd say 4-5 but I don't know much
lime gazelle
High school diploma
lime gazelle
I was doing a linux basics course and I had to end it for that
Yeah I mean I wasn't expecting much
vestal briar
Probably better ones around
But that's a stable position if there isn't any alternatives
vestal briar
Oh haha
lime gazelle
Idk what to do honestly, I feel boxed
vestal briar
Work for a bit longer and start a job hunt for a better position
Another 3 or 9 probably
So you can boast you have a year of working experience
Also #career-advice can help more then me
lime gazelle
Aye I'll post there π
vestal briar
:)
lime gazelle
Isn't it like, they send you to help desk if you suck at everything?π
Now I have insecurities on my already flimsy knowledge and abilities. Heck.
Yeah but others that have my exact same situation are in more estabilished teams
Like devops
Or aws
Or networking
So I mean, either they're geniuses or I suck
I can't, I've already accepted
Also I'll be there for 3 months only if they don't renew my contract
pale forge
depends on the help desk
solid pollen
I don't use arch btw
lime gazelle
@pale forge it's like, service desk for a bank. With me we're 4 peeps
That do lv 1 troubleshooting and stuff
vestal briar
Woo mini vaccine fever and pain
rough sapphire
licensing issues with windows server are a pain in the ass apparently
vestal briar
Woo linux
rough sapphire
we have an application running on Windows that supports 1k users, but needs a license for every additional 1k users
so yeah linux seems to be the way to go.. but the application was written in .Net
which runs smoother on windows.. x.x
golden walrus
the Mono dilemma
rough sapphire
@golden walrus tell me everything I should know.. cuz I dont know anything about this lol
golden walrus
I know nothing other than Mono exists
rough sapphire
same
golden walrus
and it's indirectly made by Microsoft
rough sapphire
I dont know what issues it poses.. or how well it runs
golden walrus
which I do not get
well Unity uses it, and it works well
same with Terraria
so I don't know what their problems could be, I bet it has some
storm atlas
basically mono is a .net compiler for non-windows systems afaik
rough sapphire
what's unity and terraria.. game engines?
golden walrus
@rough sapphire Unity is an extremely popular game engine
Terraria is just a game, it's not made in Unity
but Terraria was made with XNA, which I think is kinda like a framework/engine that uses .NET
grave phoenix
Yep
lime gazelle
How to have a shitty day:
- walk to work as usual, no umbrella
- look up the forecast
- no rain up until when I leave work
- free shower
Pondering if I should leave an hour early when it rains less and I don't have to walk as much for the bus
rough sapphire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kopoLzvh5jY this is cool
rough sapphire
if you use a flux capacitor on your car and go up to 88 mph, you can go fast enough to give yourself an umbrella so you don't get wet in the first place
seeing my ex just now triggered such immense anxiety in me I was about to pass the fuck out, I think the adrenaline was the only thing keeping me conscious
and I don't even know why that triggered anxiety in me
golden walrus
I'm sorry for you, sounds pretty bad
rough sapphire
it's cool, kinda used to random events triggering anxiety attacks in me, it's just that I haven't had an attack this bad in a long time
golden walrus
do you know the cause?
I won't ask about it
not what causes each episode, but in general
rough sapphire
not really, no. Wish I did
rough sapphire
I am on good terms with almost all of my exes now.. it takes time..
solid pollen
Most of the times that's a good thing
Personally I see her everyday that's pretty annoying :D
vestal briar
How would you express [expression], [expression], [expression] in EBNF instead of a simple [expression]; [expression]; [expression];
rough sapphire
EBNF? Electric Boogaloo: Not the First?
vestal briar
Sure
wooden silo
@vestal briar I'm not sure what you're asking. EBNF consists of a set of production rules. What do you want to produce?
vestal briar
Thinking of something like <Expr> { "," <Expr> } but that's not valid in my flavour
wooden silo
@vestal briar An expression followed by an optional expression separated by a comma?
vapid bluff
no but i know someone who's done a bit of that
i could put you in touch if you want?
lime gazelle
I was more curious about what to expect tbh
Can't find tutorial for how to make x emulator (just incomplete ones)
frosty berry
i think you work with an emulator first, as it's easier, even if there is some likelyhood that you will hit bugs when flashing it on a card to test on real hardware
frosty berry
tardy frigate
@native summit
So anyway, by my understanding, prΓ©pa is after highschool before grandes Γ©coles, and that translates to college, university?
native summit
yea
tardy frigate
Like, you get the next bit after your highschool grades, and use that to get into university where you do honours, masters doctorate.
Is that the same?
native summit
you can go to prΓ©pa only after highschool
tardy frigate
Yeah same with English colleges
native summit
in france university and Γ©cole d'ingΓ©nieurs are different
tardy frigate
Ah
native summit
since you trained for 2 years to the big exams
after 2 years we have '' concours ''
not exactly contests
but each Γ©cole has a '' concours '' and the one who has the greatest grade has place
the 2nd one has one
etc
tardy frigate
See we do highschool, then we do 2 years of further study in college, then that's what gets us into university, seems like your saying you can skip prΓ©pa, we couldn't skip over college to university
native summit
yea thats it
either you go to prΓ©pa, either you go to university
wait college isn't university
?
tardy frigate
Not in England aha
native summit
i'm trying to figure out how your system works
tardy frigate
I think you're saying like the thing you go to instead of prΓ©pa, that you're calling university is that also 2 years?
native summit
3 years
and after those 3 years, you could either start working, either study for a doctorate
tardy frigate
Basically, we have primary school for 6 years, then highschool is years 7 through 11, and college is years 11 through 12, with people who fail or want to retake being able to go to year 13, then after that you do university for either 3 or 4 years, and end up with either a masters or an bachelors, then you can do a doctorate for another 4 years, or finish your masters if you only got a bachelors, then do masters
native summit
but if you go to prepa, you study for 2 years and instead of going to university, you go to Γ©coles d'ingΓ©nieurs.
tardy frigate
So like that's a technical college right? Where you do like manual labour sorta stuff
native summit
its not
there are a lot of Γ©coles, in several domains
you specialize yourself in one domain and make it your job 3 years later
if you're in a mechanical, robotic Γ©cole, its going to be more technical than a IT engineer Γ©cole
my english is crap
A baccalaurΓ©at or foreign equivalent guarantees access to a publicly funded university, although the very best students take another one or two years of private studies, prepatory classes, or prΓ©pas, so they can sit for an entrance exam (concours) into the handful of prestigious schools known collectively as les grandes Γ©coles for engineering, business, and politics or administrative studies. Read more in Expaticaβs guide to French higher education and universities in France.
thats it
https://www.expatica.com/fr/education/higher-education/study-abroad-in-france-french-universities-104843/ everything is explained here if you want
golden walrus
everybody in college looks this happy imarite
native summit
in our universities some of the students barely have 15 hours of class in a week
while in prΓ©pa you work from 8 to 18 everyday
tardy frigate
Yikes
native summit
tbh most of them drop before their L3 (3rd year)
frosty berry
I wish my english was that good when i was in high school, thankfully i caught up since, but i think you had better teachers than mine, i didn't go to school in paris.
I know it's a popular opinion, but i would refrain from stating that Γ©coles d'ingΓ©nieurs are "better" than universities, it's different, it's harder to get in, and they are very good indeed, and everybody can got to universities, but the ones who go all the way, to the doctorate, are not any worse than the ones who go through Γ©coles d'ingΓ©nieurs
native summit
i know right
frosty berry
though the difference is usually that the ones who ends up with doctorates are very strong on theory, while the engineers have been prepared for more of an industry career
native summit
yep thats it
but i think that nowadays a diploma from an Γ©cole is juste more valued than a doctorate
my highschool teachers who went to Γ©cole thought the same
frosty berry
on that i can agree
frosty berry
but just be careful, there is some self-congratulation in the hautes Γ©coles system in france, people thinking they are the elite and dismissing the others, it's good to go to a good school, but that mentality is bad.
yeah, had to learn on my own too, english is badly taught in france
golden walrus
talking about France, my university is doing a joint work with a French university
frosty berry
nice
golden walrus
I mean, we students are
frosty berry
what's the work/project on ?
native summit
well thats true, but I guess its the same everywhere
golden walrus
we study multimedia design, we have to do installations representing data in weird ways
basically
native summit
but usually the ones who made it to hautes Γ©coles don't really care about where the others come from, they are just happy they finished prΓ©pa
golden walrus
the data needs to be related to Argentina and France
native summit
at least, the ones i met were like this
golden walrus
my uni is UNLP, the French one is Paris 8
frosty berry
haha, yeah prepa seems intense, i probably wouldn't have had any luck in that
native summit
everyone can succeed in prepa as long as they can work enough
our teachers told us that we had to study at least 3 hours a day after school
frosty berry
yeah, that's the problem i would have had π
native summit
and 8 during the week end
well
I'm also having this problem
i gotta catch up everything i missed those 2 weeks
and start being more serious about my studies
frosty berry
i was doing some programming already, mostly bad c++ and opengl, even in high school i was doing the minimum to get the bac, barely got it
(S, math)
native summit
also s
got 11.99 this year for the bac
they couldn't give me 0.01 to have a mention
where did you study ?
frosty berry
in ardΓ¨che π
Annonay, precisely
then did a DUT in valence, then worked, then came to paris and resumed studies and got an engineering diploma / master degree at EFREI in internship
feels like i cheated the system to be honest
native summit
efrei ?
frosty berry
yeah, it's in villejuif
frosty berry
lol
native summit
i wanted to go to polytech this year, idk if you know this Γ©cole
not polytechnique
frosty berry
not a bad school, though i was hard on the teacher, since i had quite some experience working as a programmer already, i needed to tell some of them they were wrong π
i don't know it, but heard of it
so many schools
telecom paris is good too
native summit
yea
i don't think i'll go to the top 10 schools after 2 years
i'm not good enough to work as hard as i can for 2 years
and i'm still stuck with my python program
frosty berry
i know the feeling, but you should know that's the kind of thinking that prevent growth
you said earlier anybody can do it if they work enough, i know people told me that the best thing you learn in prΓ©pa is the work ethics, you become a monster of work
vestal briar
Scary!
frosty berry
it certainly means putting aside distractions
yeah, i think prΓ©pa is for "preparation", when you get out you are ready, for what? just "ready"
(joking aside, it's preparation for grandes Γ©coles, which are supposedly the elite, so they take the top of every classes, and make them compete as hard as possible, because there is not enough space for everybody, and they tell everyone that's the "royal way", you have to go there to make your parents proud, to have the best work and salaries, the dream life, so yeah, it's going to be quite grueling to come out on top)
vestal briar
And here in the uk we just hope not to be completely bankrupt
native summit
i'll probably change my mindset during the next few month
vestal briar
It's a given you'll have debt for the rest of your life unless you are wealthy
native summit
but rn i grew up at some point I realized I had nothing more than the others. with the same amount of work, most of the people in my class will have better grades than me
and i'm feeling sad for the students in the uk and the usa
here in france, everybody complains about everything
native summit
some students claim that the new school system sucks so they are protesting
but they do not even realize the chance they have to study in france for free
vestal briar
Eh, that's normal
Developed countries are protesting fucking vaccinations where developing countries are trying to not starve
All depends of the entilty (if that's a word) that you start off with
native summit
the speciality of french people is to protest instead of working
they could protest for anything
the baguette price increased by 0.20 euros ? SCANDALOUS
vestal briar
The french wild card
golden walrus
π₯
native summit
depends on where you go but yea its fine
vestal briar
Yeah
frosty berry
yeah, we are lucky to study for free in france, but there is still high disparities depending on your social background or geographical location
vestal briar
True
frosty berry
and the new system is going to make it a lot harder for less advantaged people to find a school that fit what they want to do
vestal briar
France, Germany, Belgium and Australia are all the countries i'd like to move to
frosty berry
and the system was incredibly buggy and badly managed, it was a clown train last year
people had no idea, weeks or days before the start of school, if they had a place somewhere
native summit
they fixed it this year, hiding the address and name of the students on the webiste
frosty berry
i didn't follow closely after that, but a lot of people got no solution i believe
frosty berry
well, i hear you, but as i understand it you are among the ones with the best chances to go where they want, coming from the right high school, so you might be biased π
native summit
i know some people didn't get any schools but a lot of them probably only picked the best schools which refused them
i'm under average tbh
i got my school two weeks before september
frosty berry
well, when you could put 10 choices, you could at least put the school of your dream even if you knew it was a moonshot, and you had space to put others
native summit
a lot of universities can't refuse you since some of their licence aren't selective
frosty berry
now you can only put a name if you are almost certain you can get a spot here
native summit
you had mroe than 10 choices
you could choose between 10 universities dut iut bts
and 40 prΓ©pa (including 20 mpsi and 20 pcsi)
all my teachers told us to put at least one non selective school so we have something if all the other school refuse us
frosty berry
hm, so i guess they changed the system
native summit
but not everyone did this
frosty berry
last year people could only put 3 choices iirc, that seemed horrible
native summit
only 3 ? i think they had more thn 3 choices
vestal briar
They increased the options to 5 or 7, worked out better
native summit
they had 10 choices last year, i just verified
i have 7 hours of maths tomorrow and i still haven't finished my program
frosty berry
oh ok, so i was wrong it was indeed more than 10 before last year, and 10 last year
woops
well, better get to it then, it's almost 2AM
frosty berry
you said tomorrow, you meant today
frosty berry
π²
native summit
i'm way too tired every morning to take a bike
frosty berry
π
native summit
it has to reverse the chain i write
i finished all the others programs
but this one
native summit
result = '' what does this do ?
frosty berry
it creates result as an empty string
you didn't learn variables before learning indexing/slicing? π€
native summit
i did, I just don't understand how it is useful here
frosty berry
well, it's not the final value of the variable, but it's an useful starting point, for the lines that follow
the interesting part is the line in the loop
frosty berry
yes
native summit
nvm i can't explain it
frosty berry
in algebra, a = a+1 doesn't make any sense but in programming, it does
native summit
for letter in text, result=letter+result, i don't understand why letter takes every letter of my text
native summit
it takes every characters in the chain i choose ?
they just gave us the documents online
frosty berry
for works with iterables, that is, everything you can iterate on
strings are iterable, if you do, you get each character one after another
native summit
and why is it backwards ?
frosty berry
that's because of how the second line is constructed
for gets them in order, but the second line prepend instead of appending
native summit
doesn't the second line means you add a letter to the result and keep going ?
frosty berry
if it appended, result would be a copy of the text
native summit
i don't have the notions of append and prepend
frosty berry
addition of strings is not commutative
golden walrus
that's just English
native summit
frosty berry
"a" + "b" β "b" + "a"
golden walrus
the "pre" is a good hint
frosty berry
in french it's prefix and suffix
native summit
it only works for str doesn't it ?
frosty berry
no
native summit
for int and float aswell ?
frosty berry
no
native summit
frosty berry
but there are other types of variables
native summit
oh
frosty berry
addition of int and float as communative, but for other types, it depends
sometime addition doesn't even make sense, so it's a type error, and sometime it does less obvious things
golden walrus
I never dug __add__ and see how I can check the order
frosty berry
programming is a creative field, it's more magic than math on a high level, you decide what you want things to mean, and you just find out if it makes sense after (if not, you get bugs)
golden walrus
it talks about how little I know
frosty berry
basically __add__ is called on the first object, with the second object as argument
golden walrus
Ah, that makes sense
frosty berry
and if it doesn't work, it tries calling __radd__ on the second object with the first as argument, i think
native summit
result='', how am I supposed to know I have to create this before i start the loop ?
frosty berry
if neither work, you get an error
well, you have to think a bit about what you want your program to do, if you see you'll need this variable, you create it first
i mean, that's the solution i came up with, and i find it very nice and all, but it's not the only solution
i've been programming for quite a few years now so these things seem a bit obvious to me, thankfully, not sure how to explain that part, i though more about what i wanted the result to be, saw i would need to add the things in order, but i needed a starting point, so i defined it
golden walrus
how do I get one of those
frosty berry
haha, it's just experience
golden walrus
I'll should read about Python and learn algorithms
frosty berry
i stumble on stupid things all day still, just on slightly more complex ones
golden walrus
I miss a lot by only reading the documentation when I need it
frosty berry
i should read documentation more too, it's a blessing when it's there, it'll save you hours or days
native summit
i gotta leave you gentlemen, I gotta wake in 5 hours
frosty berry
i wish users read more the doc i wrote too, instead of making me repeat it to them
native summit
thanks for the lesson patron
frosty berry
enjoy, make sure you can explain the solution to the teacher if they ask, or they won't believe you found it on your own π
have a good night
frosty berry
π
native summit
good nights π
golden walrus
i wish users read more the doc i wrote too
I will when I'll pick your library
frosty berry
π
golden walrus
I'll have to do some GUIs eventually
frosty berry
though i didn't write a lot for oscpy π¬ my most recent work, but i did quite a lot for kivy
golden walrus
my background consists of mIRC scripting, C and Java, mostly
but I never went that deep in those
oh and Pascal, they made me use it when I tried computer science
frosty berry
C is punishing, hard teacher, but good teacher, Java is the opposite, no freedom to mess, have to say state everything even if obvious. Python is joy
golden walrus
only when I touched Java I started reading documentation, like javadocs
frosty berry
yeah, javadoc is not too bad
golden walrus
oh I'm very thankful to C, it showed me how many things worked
that was my second year of CS
before I dropped out
I started Java many years later
and I was "what do you mean strings are not arrays??"
frosty berry
not a bad thing on this one though, good luck managing unicode in char**
golden walrus
true, but I wish there was an array-like abstraction like string[5] to get a character
frosty berry
i don't know modern C/C++, i'm sure there is now
golden walrus
I was talking about Java
frosty berry
there was wchar_t or something already in C though
ah right
yeah, they probably don't want to give such thing
frosty berry
you don't absolutely need it, so you shouldn't have it, gives them more freedom to do things as they please internaly
golden walrus
and they end in \0
frosty berry
yeah i know π
golden walrus
I know, in fact, I wouldn't use that at all
but it speaks a lot for the language
Python allows for such weird, flexible things
multiplying strings is soooo weird
like why do we have that?
frosty berry
the 7 lines to read lines in a file was a show stopper for me, after having seen how to do it in python
"because we can" ?
it's pretty useful to multiply strings, i like it a lot
golden walrus
the 7 lines to read lines in a file was a show stopper for me, after having seen how to do it in python
agh, my final work with C was to write a program that took .srt and transformed it into .vlt
without libraries
not bad when you're used to it, as with anything, but still
frosty berry
srt is very unspecified format, must have been fun
i did a parser in python to display them on top of videos in kivy
only managed the basic features though
golden walrus
Kivy looks really good
frosty berry
π
gilded wadi
unrelated, just wanna give tshirtman an update:
In [2]: %timeit 10**10**5
6.49 ms Β± 65.1 Β΅s per loop
In [3]: %timeit 10**10**10
started this 2.5 hours ago, still going
frosty berry
it is
haha, not surprised
7 was still managable, but took like a minute
10 might outlive your PC π
gilded wadi
i7-2600. 2011 dell
frosty berry
even if it's 1000x more than 7, and assuming i remember correctly as 1mn, it might take the best part of a day
golden walrus
it's pretty useful to multiply strings, i like it a lot
what have you used that for?
maybe it helps to do some common algorithm in less lines?
frosty berry
print("!" * 100)
golden walrus
hysterical
frosty berry
it's often convenient for placeholder text, and sometime for other things
we could certainly live without it, but it's there, and it's sometime quite convenient that's all
vestal briar
I'd like optional static typing in python
grave phoenix
C++ is good