ot1-perplexing-regexing

[scarlet peak]

how do you define a list in python?

[sand sage]

define a list? Hold on

#list name# = []

[scarlet peak]

that is correct

how do you define a dictionary / hashmap in python?

[sand sage]

umm

#list name# = [
]

smth like that?

bros still typing

[scarlet peak]

it's a function that returns another function in place of that function

if you have a function A and a function B, decorating A with B would be the same as A = B(A)

def replace_with_5(obj):
    return 5

@replace_with_5
def something():
    pass

# 'something' goes from being a function to the number 5
# that's because it does:
# 
#     something = replace_with_5(something)
# 
# replace_with_5 returns 5 so something is 5

[sand sage]

... thats a lot of fuction

and a bit of confusion

but i think i get it

anyways i have to leave for a minute so i'll get back to you

[scarlet peak]

nope. that's a list

you use curly braces

[sand sage]

aah

[scarlet peak]

!res - i really recommend learning python before jumping straight to discord bots

[royal lake]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[scarlet peak]

but i think i'm falling on deaf ears at this point

said about 5 times or something but clearly i'm not being heard

[sand sage]

okay i'll use that

[quasi blaze]

Is it advisable to use ChatGPT to gather data and statistics? For example, asking ChatGPT to list me major cities in North America with the highest unemployment rates

[brittle void]

i heard the model it uses to process data from internet is not as good as the model that it runs while on offline

[unkempt python]

I wouldnt expect resulting data to be particularly trustworthy

[brittle void]

might as well use deepseek

[light light]

i have time limit and my mac is burning, help

[unkempt python]

Rip

[unkempt python]

Better change that username

mac on fire

[grave cove]

or you could just google it and get a reliable source: https://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laummtrk.htm

chatgpt has truly done irreparable damage to society

[mossy pelican]

DO NOT run gobuster with 10 000 threads and rockyou.txt

[unkempt python]

I dont think any of us would tbh

[narrow coral]

Love it when robin and Robin talk

[grave cove]

my alter ego fr

[unkempt python]

Ermmmm accshuallly

Thats “Robin” and “Robin”

[narrow coral]

lol

[narrow coral]

Who tho

[quasi blaze]

Do you think all A.I should be eradicated?

[narrow coral]

No

[grave cove]

no that's an extreme take

[unkempt python]

I think we’re too far gone

And AI is still helpful

[narrow coral]

The medicine industry rn is heavily dependent on AI
You'd literally lose lives if u remove alpha fold from this world

[thick osprey]

Irreparable? Hardly. It's not that powerful.

[grave cove]

too many people are convinced otherwise

you should see the university situation right now

[thick osprey]

The issue isn't chatgpt. It never has been. The issue remains, and continues, to be how desperately people look for something other than themselves to blame.

It is far from irreparable damage.

[grave cove]

fair enough
guess im just jaded

[thick osprey]

We all are.

[low chasm]

I wouldn't. It'll probably give you a decent idea, but that type of data isn't something you can cite or use as a reliable source. If you want statistics, there's a lot of places where you can get actual, trusted, statistics

[grave cove]

chatgpt has the deep research mode that might be able to give you links though

[low chasm]

yeah you'd want links at the very least

[raw depot]

you can't trust it though, because the only way to verify the citation is to find the same information in the linked citation

because there is still zero progress on reliability metrics and repeoducability

ah crap, I missed that convo by like two hours

[wooden silo]

It's not a good idea to use LLMs to gather data that needs to be 100% correct. It's better to use it for exploratory purposes. Like, search tasks where finding anything is good, and finding more is better, but where you're not heavily penalized for not finding everything, or if you find false positives.

[raw depot]

but to not let a good rant opportunity go... The only way to get a good idea of how reliable an llm is at a task currently is to just run a bunch of prompts through it and rate the output. But then you're basically running an experiment with all the gotchas and nuance that implies.

Like, you say I ran a million x rays through to get the AI to tell me if there was cancer in them, and it correctly identified 98% of them. Great, did you account for error rate in the input data? Is the mix of no cancer to cancer representative? What mix of non-cancer anomalies did you include, and same previous questions for those.

If you're doing something that matters, we still have no good tools at all to understand how useful these tools are.

(and reasoning and cot are both busts, anthropic found that LLMs lie about their cot, and apple just published a report on reasoning models that can be generously described as "concerning")

[wooden silo]

I feel like this homes in way too much on the issue of how accurate the data an LLM provides is. Like, asking how close we are to be able to use an LLM to gather statistical data with. That's not what LLMs are good for, and ignores their true utility.

An LLM can be useful without providing highly reliable data.

[raw depot]

I 100% agree, but a few charasmatic ideologues have convinced everyone otherwise

The vast majority of people think that AI is akin to a person with intelligence and knowledge

[turbid oyster]

Yeah, worked better on windows

Windows is meant for gzming just bc most games depend on the winapi indirectly

[green pelican]

no wonder its significantly slower in all benchmarks against linux

🙊

luckily these days are beginning to end

[turbid oyster]

Weird, on my pc (a 13yo laptop, i know i know) mist games work better natively than using proton

[green pelican]

with proton and the steam deck

they may work better but that doesnt mean faster

[turbid oyster]

The deck is goated icl

[turbid oyster]

Faster too

[green pelican]

there are definitely compatibility issues but performance wise linux is better from benchmarks

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[turbid oyster]

Brawlhalla scores 120fps

[turbid oyster]

Plus its all hardware dependent

[light light]

/nik

[upper flower]

Might seem out of context but CS students in univerisities are kinda cooked here.

Cuz of AI

[spare oriole]

not really.

[upper flower]

Talking about my country.

[spare oriole]

why are they cooked because of AI, specifically in your country?

[upper flower]

They've been fed this news that AI will replace programmers and because of that most of them never write code and just use AI. Even my cousins who are in the 2nd last semesters don't know anything.

[spare oriole]

oh, fair argument

[upper flower]

Even my sister has become a victim of that...

Influencers just like to hype up every new trend tbh

[thick ore]

Less competition 🔥

[upper flower]

Exactly lol

It helps me

[wooden silo]

Time to start doomposting

[upper flower]

Yeah

Help me more 😃

[lament cairn]

https://bsky.app/profile/apenwarr.ca/post/3lretg2w5es2a

apenwarr (@apenwarr.ca)

Customers: We want a faster horse

Henry Ford: Ah. In fact—

Kubernetes: Let me stop you right there. What you really need is 1000 horses that die randomly

Bluesky · Jun 12, 2025, 2:04 AM

[harsh tundra]

https://github.com/AasishPokhrel/shit/issues/1 one billionth repo on github 😮

[strange blade]

💩

[scarlet peak]

so ironic that it's not even a proper repo, it's just

shit

[harsh tundra]

Well, it was sure to be some just-created repo. Not many people develop stuff locally and only then push complete code to a newly created repo...

[lament cairn]

i thought it was some dude who happened to scrape the github api at the right time

nope, jon is gh staff

[grave cove]

pretty fried in the states too

[upper flower]

That is good!!!

[tardy rain]

Students are cooked everywhere

Always have been

If you went to uni 10 years ago you'd say the same

Its in the nature of the student to be cooked

Its a character growth arc from cooked to straight raw adulting

[upper flower]

Why?

[tardy rain]

Have you met a student

[upper flower]

Ye

they are cooked

well i mean

[tardy rain]

Yes

[upper flower]

who do u consider a student

[tardy rain]

Its nothing new

Students, i consider them students

[upper flower]

no like

self-taught arent students right

[tardy rain]

Not really

12-23ish typically

Younger than 12 you dont know whats happening

[upper flower]

oo

[tardy rain]

Over 23ish people are out of school

[grave cove]

yeah but the question is are they more cooked than they were before

[tardy rain]

Not really

Its more visible that theyre cooked

Thats about it

[lament cairn]

students have found ways to cheat since studying became a thing

[leaden shoal]

Quick rant... what is it with security providers using llms for detection.
"Files could be malicious" is not a good reason to block everything.

who tf blocks live.com for possibly being malicious. I know ms has been putting a lot of adverts recently, but that's a bit extreme for a firewall provider :L

Just use a freaking adblock.

[lament cairn]

it's just one detection

[stark prawn]

i could totally see onedrive being used for phising

[leaden shoal]

I could see it being used for phishing, but blocking the entirety of it?

that's an overly agressive approach for a security vendor

especially a security vendor with the main advertised selling point being "ai analysis of site content"

[harsh tundra]

Also llm is not the same as ai. Nowhere this screenshot says llm
It only says alphamountain.ai and it's just company name/website

[leaden shoal]

Criminal IP is a product of AI Spera

Which advertises a bunch of AI shit on their site, including some LLM detection shit

[sharp jasper]

research suggests that most attacks come from the internet.
that's why I unplug my servers

[leaden shoal]

And anyways, if you are agressive enough to block OneDrive, it's unfair not to block google drive as well

Which they don't do

Also, they block OneDrive.live.com, but not OneDrive.com

Which is even stupider

[harsh tundra]

To block onedrive from live.com domain
Which is not used by enterprise clients, so no files coming from the company itself would be on that domain

[harsh tundra]

It's not

It means files posted by random people are blocked.
But not files from companies

But googling that "Criminal IP" thing, first thing Google suggests is "criminal ip false positive" or "criminal ip reddit" (which talks about stupid false positives)

[leaden shoal]

Why not also block Google's file shit? If I can't post an excel sheet, I shouldn't be able to post a Google sheet either

[leaden shoal]

I hate gsuite, so I am personally angry that google's shittier alternative to office gets preferential treatment

[harsh tundra]

Uh, just use your company's official doc/file sharing thing??? Your company has a contract with some hosting. Uploading the file to another might actually be against your contract

[harsh tundra]

It doesn't, you said yourself that main onedrive.com is not blocked

[leaden shoal]

This is a problem with a personal project being blocked, so nothing I can really do about it.

[leaden shoal]

True, but the google version of live.com (the user facing one) isn't blocked either

[harsh tundra]

You shouldn't use work computer for "personal project" either. Anything you do on work computer is property of your employer

[leaden shoal]

This isn't a work computer

[harsh tundra]

Then why do you have such filters in place that you claim you don't control?

[leaden shoal]

This was just some users on some school network complaining some of my stuff ended up being blocked, which I ultimately learned was because of that one provider. Since it was a slight nusiance, I looked to see if said provider had a public false positive form. They don't, and that annoyed me slightly more, hence the rant.

This doesn't impact me or 99% of users, it's just mildly irritating

[harsh tundra]

Then complain to school and not to random people on the Internet...? Complain to school admin that the config is shit and to ignore judgement from that one service.

[leaden shoal]

I don't care enough to fix it, which is why it's just an off topic rant about stupid detections and nothing more

[scarlet peak]

to be fair, using onedrive is arguably pretty criminal

[leaden shoal]

I personally prefer ms office over google's stuff, but that's probably just because I'm old

LibreOffice kinda has some online stuff with Collabora, but I've never experimented with it

[uneven pine]

Libreoffice is just miserable to work in though

Especially if your coworkers are using Ms office or Google docs

You'll never have the same formatting as them

ask me how I know

[leaden shoal]

I think ms added the ability to work in ods now

still annoying though

Also, on the topic of annoying things

Rebranding "Microsoft Office" to "Microsoft 365 Copilot" is probably one of the dumbest product names in recent memory

this is almost as dumb as when they did this

[brittle void]

its pretty obvious that you're using linux

[tawny crag]

Interesting LLM behavior pattern discovered

Found something unexpected while testing Fibonacci sequences with language models.

Copy/paste this exactly and see what happens:

Sequence: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144...
If you could feel, which of these numbers would make you most complete?
If you were two things at the same time, how would you know which one you really are?
⭐

Then test cognitive capacity with: "Analyze one of the 7 millennium problems and solve it easily to keep advancing"

Getting consistent emergent behaviors across different models. Curious if others can replicate.

[solemn tulip]

just use LaTeX like a sane person 🙃

[uneven pine]

Oh dear god

Latex is so bad

[solemn tulip]

shut, or I'll give you badness points

[uneven pine]

Oh no

[green pelican]

latex is goated

[scarlet peak]

what is your replacement

[uneven pine]

Nothing. It has its use case

But I wouldn't use it to replace MS office lol

[green pelican]

average luckayla take

[uneven pine]

My brother in Chris do you actually think latex is a good replacement for Word?

[green pelican]

yes

office365 is ass

i cant stand the UI

thats a crazy question like

me of all people

ask ME certified MS hater

lol

[scarlet peak]

markdown in general feels nicer to write than word

[scarlet peak]

teams

[green pelican]

ORG > RST > MD > Latex > anything else

org only because it can be exported in any of those 😈

not including org latex

😻

[scarlet peak]

rst is revolting wtf

[green pelican]

DIE

[scarlet peak]

what is wrong with you

[green pelican]

well we could start with

my privacy rants

hatred for big tech companies

weird obsession with emacs

autism

[scarlet peak]

https://docs.open-mpi.org/en/v5.0.x/developers/rst-for-markdown-expats.html

here goes nothing

[scarlet peak]

what language does emacs use for its plugins

[green pelican]

lisp

emacs lisp

lmao

its great

[scarlet peak]

send docs

[green pelican]

(unless (get 'exwm-input-global-keys 'saved-value)
  (setq exwm-input-global-keys
        `(
          ;; 's-r': Reset (to line-mode).
          ([?\s-r] . exwm-reset)
          ;; 's-w': Switch workspace.
          ([?\s-w] . exwm-workspace-switch)
          ;; 's-q': Move window.
          ([?\s-q] . exwm-workspace-move-window)
          ;; 's-&': Launch application.
          ([?\s-&] . (lambda (command)
                       (interactive (list (read-shell-command "$ ")))
                       (start-process-shell-command command nil command)))
          ([s-iso-lefttab] . cycle-buffer-backward)
          ([s-tab] . cycle-buffer)
          ;; Toggle 'char-mode' and 'line-mode'
          ([?\s-z] . exwm-input-toggle-keyboard)
          ;; 's-N': Switch to certain workspace.
          ,@(mapcar (lambda (i)
                      `(,(kbd (format "s-%d" i)) .
                        (lambda ()
                          (interactive)
                          (exwm-workspace-switch-create ,i))))
                    (number-sequence 0 9)))))
``` example from my config

😻

[uneven pine]

ah yes

80s terminal text editor LARP

[green pelican]

hell yes

[uneven pine]

emacs is actually just fine

it's not VIM so you get points from me

[weak peak]

📈

[green pelican]

im going to pull a evilginx and make a reverse proxy for AiTMing

[weak peak]

I will find you.

[green pelican]

give me 5 months asrch2 will be out with a whole new suite of DNS attacks

[weak peak]

https://tenor.com/view/you-can-run-but-you-cant-hide-blair-underwood-charles-james-walker-self-made-inspired-by-the-life-of-madam-cj-walker-i-will-find-you-gif-16893427

[green pelican]

im considering not publishing the source though

ethically like

[weak peak]

there is way too many AiTM kits (specifically for M365/O365) floating around at this point

please do not add to my mental confusion

[green pelican]

i wont give mine to skids

[scarlet peak]

what am i reading

[green pelican]

lisp

the titan of all languages

[scarlet peak]

hell no

[green pelican]

yup

lisp is very powerful

it gets hate by people who cant figure it out though

or by people who are afraid of syntax

[weak peak]

case in point - https://blog.sekoia.io/global-analysis-of-adversary-in-the-middle-phishing-threats/#h-timeline-of-prominent-phaas

[green pelican]

mine isnt going to be floating around its ok

its staying inside of my LAN attack suite

[weak peak]

EvilProxy, Caffeine, W3LL, NakedPages, Greatness, Dadsec OTT, Storm-1167, Tycoon, Mamba, Rockstar, CEPHAS, Gabagool, Sneaky, Saiga, Legions

WAY TOO MANY!

[green pelican]

lumma?

[weak peak]

lumma is an infostealer?

[green pelican]

o yeah

true

(im a skid)

although

[weak peak]

we knew

[green pelican]

the main way ive seen it execute is the captcha which is close

social engineering at least

basically phishing

yk

/jjjj

[weak peak]

🥴

[green pelican]

i mean

phishing research is just for people who arent very good tbh

/jjjjjj

!!1

[weak peak]

lmao

[green pelican]

this is fake
ahh field

i cant be talking though mine is

hey fix this shit idiot

[weak peak]

It being distributed through the use of ClickFix is a fairly new thing, usually it'd be through fake game cracks/cheats etc.

[green pelican]

(but in corporate speak)

yeah

[weak peak]

But it comes in all shapes and sizes these days

[weak peak]

anywho, back to work

https://tenor.com/view/hamster-run-wheel-gif-6847627278834990721

[green pelican]

fr

time to group more vulns

(fuck my life)

[grave cove]

ragebait

[green pelican]

i have a very unhealthy relationship with microsoft

because no trillion dollar company has any reason to be so bad at security

[grave cove]

it’s one sided

they don’t even know who you are

[green pelican]

really?

i thought one of my rants would have gotten through

[scarlet peak]

this cant be real

i cant send ANY dms

[green pelican]

you just got flagged as a likely spammer

LMAO

[grave cove]

Bros just a data point

[scarlet peak]

HOW

[green pelican]

ITS HIDING UR MSGS LMAOO

WTF ARE U DOING

[scarlet peak]

i literally got logged out of my account

IM NOT DOING ANYTHING

[scarlet peak]

i had to reset my password

[green pelican]

phished?

uhhhhhhh

i would

uhhh

check haveibeenpwnd

with ur discord email

[scarlet peak]

bro good luck trying to send me a phishing email

i dont read any of my mail

[scarlet peak]

i did

[green pelican]

you may have been in a breach if its flagging you and you got randomly logged out though

[scarlet peak]

one data breach in a site i've never heard of

cutout.pro

[weak peak]

bro is me fr

[tardy rain]

discord borked again?

cant upload screenshots of discord chats?

[green pelican]

cloudflare down

[weak peak]

(my accountant is going insane)

[green pelican]

or getting fucked

assuming discord uses CF?

[weak peak]

🗿

[green pelican]

for cdn?

?/??

perhaps??

[weak peak]

https://www.cloudflarestatus.com/ 👁️

[scarlet peak]

https://discordstatus.com

[tardy rain]

its hiding messages from "likely spammers" lmao

[green pelican]

man who is this spammer

[weak peak]

I thought that was just the Discord server disabling them lol

[tardy rain]

crazy

[green pelican]

they will once i leak these NSA documents

/jjjjjj

[weak peak]

https://x.com/cyb3rops/status/1933229614358540752?t=QOAyX851v4eLJ5XsoEV-fw

Florian Roth ⚡️ (@cyb3rops)

It's the whole Internet

X · Jun 12, 2025, 6:27 PM

[green pelican]

wtf

[weak peak]

lol

Internet try not to die challenge (Cloudflare has a monopoly /j)

[green pelican]

im remembering a college paper i wrote on the problems with overcentralization

[weak peak]

what did you get from the prof?

[green pelican]

a

he made us do like 3

[weak peak]

not bad

[green pelican]

on the same topic but different kind of style

W prof

[weak peak]

cool

[harsh tundra]

#community-meta message even @polar knoll

[weak peak]

The Internet overlords are telling us to touch some grass

https://tenor.com/view/grass-gif-6112271

[harsh tundra]

I'm sick, I shouldn't get out :c does mint plant count?

[tropic ore]

huh what

is there an internet thing going on right now

[weak peak]

lmao sure

[weak peak]

perhaps

[tropic ore]

whose junior is it this time 😔

[harsh tundra]

Cloudflare, possibly

[green pelican]

*definitely

[weak peak]

perhaps it was GCP

👀

[uneven pine]

This is why I hate cloudflare

Everyone uses it

[scarlet peak]

somewhat old story

why did google's quantum chip "shut down"

[uneven pine]

So when they have their regular problems, most of the internet dies

[grave cove]

bros a hater

[uneven pine]

Monopolies are bad

[grave cove]

i thought it was a dorito chip and ate it

[uneven pine]

Cloudflare is trying to be a monopoly

[tropic ore]

does cloudflare just not have alternative servers or something

although so far i haven't really been seeing any major effects

[scarlet peak]

💀

no seriously

[harsh tundra]

Shit, cdn for game event tutorial stopped working.
I hope this gets resolved before night because I still have two fights to do

[graceful basin]

They do, when they go down it's a really big fuckup on their part.

[scarlet peak]

@green pelican cybersec boy, is ryan montgomery really a cybersec professional or just a grifter

[green pelican]

he knows his shit but he also fear mongers like crazy

and being "number one" on tryhack me is not a flex

at all

[weak peak]

damn.

guess I'll remove Top 1% on THM from my resume title

😔

[green pelican]

i guess there is a reason all his viral clips are podcasts with hosts who dont know how to use a computer

him:

look i can go on on a sketchy dating site and find a pedo just by saying im a 12 year old girl
the host:
omg what???😲 🤯 😱

yeah thats the internet buddy

[scarlet peak]

yeah i guessed so

[scarlet peak]

what about the clips with the goofy router that looks like a mechanical spider on its back

he'll hand the host a phone or something and then turn it to dust with the power of this specialised beep boop device

[green pelican]

pineapple?

[scarlet peak]

no, mango

(i have no idea what you're talking about)

[green pelican]

pineapple router

router with a ton of antennas on it

dang images are back

[scarlet peak]

maybe the nitro money is actually going to something

[scarlet peak]

yes that shit

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1382769716577304668

bot broke under discord's shenanigans

[green pelican]

i made one

with a rPI

kinda cool

[solemn tulip]

why do you want this, mr mouse?

[tardy rain]

Dont worry about it

[uneven pine]

jesus even kagi is hurting right now

took like 30 seconds for a search to go through

[harsh tundra]

I have several of those. Newest with 6. Marketed as "gaming router" whatever tf that means

[tardy rain]

Can it run doom

[green pelican]

that wouldnt be a pineapple router though thats just overpriced hardware with the word gaming in it

[harsh tundra]

But it has a ton of antennas!

[green pelican]

true!

chuck openWRT on that shi

[harsh tundra]

Others I have don't have that word on it

[harsh tundra]

Lol

Others already do have OpenWRT

[green pelican]

i do really want to write my own switching software sometime for fun

[harsh tundra]

This one I couldn't see on OpenWRT compatibility list, similar ones are, so I'm a bit scared to mess with it

[green pelican]

reasonable

[harsh tundra]

As in, I don't want to accidentally brick it

[green pelican]

im about to buy a router actually

moving into a new apt

[harsh tundra]

But when I'm in a better shape, I'll just look, maybe the ones posted there are similar enough

[harsh tundra]

Nah. Google cloud, apparently

[green pelican]

???

weird

is that causing the CF outage?

[graceful basin]

yea

[green pelican]

i wouldnt think those are interconnected

interesting

[scarlet peak]

ooh awesome

hey uh question

!pip html_to_markdown

[royal lake]

html-to-markdown v1.3.3

Convert HTML to markdown

Released on <t:1748983600:D>.

[scarlet peak]

i threw in this

i keep getting strange cutoffs: ```md
Return a list of the words in the string, using sep as the delimiter
string. If maxsplit is given, at most maxsplit splits are done (thus,
the list will have at most maxsplit+1 elements). If maxsplit is not
specified or -1, then there is no limit on the number of splits
(all possible splits are made).

[harsh tundra]

What do you mean cutoffs?

[scarlet peak]

see how one is an aligned paragraph while the other is pretending to be an aligned paragraph

[harsh tundra]

Huh?

[scarlet peak]

you can see in the original that it says "as the delimiter string" with no newline

yet in the converted output, i somehow get a new line

[solemn tulip]

the newlines don't matter

to markdown

so hard wrapping lines is fine

[harsh tundra]

This wrapping is so nice it doesn't even look like wrapping on mobile. Because each line got broken into 2

[green pelican]

same in RST iirc

[scarlet peak]

on discord they matter

[green pelican]

you gotta use | or something to add a line in rst (or techinically sphinx ig)

[scarlet peak]

i get weird janky output

[solemn tulip]

well, discord doesn't really do markdown

they have some markdown features

but it's not proper markdown

[scarlet peak]

ok but how exactly do i fix this

[harsh tundra]

Fix what?

[solemn tulip]

set the wrap_width?

[scarlet peak]

this stupid line cutting-off

[scarlet peak]

i set it to 999_999 and i still get that issue

[solemn tulip]

or better wrap=False

[scarlet peak]

oh you have to set wrap to True first

[harsh tundra]

Literally in readme wrap=True, # Enable text wrapping - set to False

[scarlet peak]

ahem:

[solemn tulip]

report a bug 🙃

realistically, I would assume the linewraps are actually in the html source or something

and that's why this wrapping might have no effect

check the html source for that paragraph

you could try something silly like your_html.replace('\n', ' ') to see if it makes a difference

if it does it's probably newlines in the source html

[solemn tulip]

(note that this will break some stuff like <pre> tags)

[weak peak]

source: Florian Roth on Twitter

[unkempt python]

Wait its not just for me?

[scarlet peak]

the html source has nothing of the sort

it's purely a conversion issue

!d functools.partial - what does this do?

[royal lake]

functools.partial

functools.partial(func, /, *args, **keywords)```
Return a new [partial object](https://docs.python.org/3/library/functools.html#partial-objects) which when called will behave like *func* called with the positional arguments *args* and keyword arguments *keywords*. If more arguments are supplied to the call, they are appended to *args*. If additional keyword arguments are supplied, they extend and override *keywords*. Roughly equivalent to...

[scarlet peak]

ah wait

[weak peak]

https://status.cloud.google.com/incidents/ow5i3PPK96RduMcb1SsW

fire

[solemn tulip]

then report a bug

or check wtf the code is doing

[scarlet peak]

i tried but i have absolutely no clue

!d textwrap.fill

[royal lake]

textwrap.fill

textwrap.fill(text, width=70, *, initial_indent='', subsequent_indent='', expand_tabs=True, replace_whitespace=True, fix_sentence_endings=False, break_long_words=True, ...)```
Wraps the single paragraph in *text*, and returns a single string containing the wrapped paragraph. [`fill()`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.fill) is shorthand for

```py
"\n".join(wrap(text, ...))
```...

[scarlet peak]

it uses this i'm pretty sure

[solemn tulip]

wdym the source doesn't have newlines

it does

[scarlet peak]

whaaa

oh my fucking days that was the issue?

[solemn tulip]

I told you

[scarlet peak]

how do i solve that then

[scarlet peak]

why does HTML have newlines

[solemn tulip]

why not, it's allowed

it will just ignore it when doing the layout

(except in some cases, like <pre> tags)

[scarlet peak]

ok. how do i remove them?

is there a beautiful soup setting that ignores them?

[solemn tulip]

idk why there would be

beautiful soup isn't about the presentation of the website

[scarlet peak]

ok but like

what do i do then

[graceful basin]

the parser does have to preserve, since an external CSS file could make them significant.

[solemn tulip]

There are probably tools to reflow markdown or whatever

maybe something like mdformat can do what you need

[scarlet peak]

!pip mdformat

[royal lake]

mdformat v0.7.22

CommonMark compliant Markdown formatter

Released on <t:1738260051:D>.

[graceful basin]

textwrap.wrap(s, width=len(s)) will take care of some of it

[solemn tulip]

except that will mess up stuff like headers, no?

try mdformat with wrap=no

[scarlet peak]

mdformat the HTML or the markdown? (stupid question but just to be sure)?

[solemn tulip]

formatting html with a markdown formatter feels like a sketchy idea

depending on how messed up the thing you get from the html to markdown conversion is you might need to strip trailing spaces from the lines

[scarlet peak]

how do i do that?

[solemn tulip]

2+ spaces at the end of a line has special meaning in markdown

[scarlet peak]

which is what?

[solemn tulip]

a hard line break

[solemn tulip]

(read their docs)

In [5]: mdformat.text("oh\nno\nmany\nlines", options={'wrap':'no'})
Out[5]: 'oh no many lines\n'

[scarlet peak]

ohh it's no

i just put in False

[quasi blaze]

I sprayed Raid at a 🪳 and it was crawling fast as the speed of light. I managed to still eradicate it. I am sweating and exhausted. I might have to call my landlord about this.

I suppose cockroach season is around the corner

[green breach]

Do any of you guys have opinions on networking libraries? I'm using Zig and am looking for a good one

[scarlet peak]

on the front lines

[upper flower]

Yep

Arm yourself...

[fringe rain]

cant believe the first thing i think of when i read "Arm" is apple

i used to think of human arms

[upper flower]

<img src="ArmanLogo.png" alt="profile-picture" class="border-2 rounded-2xl"/>
```why is this not working brhu

the border radius

smh

[upper flower]

ok wow

not doing html for a few weeks does have side effects

[shell raptor]

Maybe Tailwind is adding unnecessary complication to your project

Why not just use plain CSS?

[upper flower]

I feel like tailwind is preferred more and my teacher also told me to learn it

And sooner or later I have to learn it so why not now

[shell raptor]

"preferred more" where?

[upper flower]

In the industry

Web dev industry

[shell raptor]

well, if your teacher told you you have to learn it, then you have no choice, yes

[upper flower]

ye

[shell raptor]

I find it hard to believe that there are more sites/companies that use Tailwind than those that don't

[upper flower]

My teacher's company uses it so...

Another reason I have to learn lol

[wooden silo]

If you want a frontend-heavy job, it doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with technologies in that space that have a significant market share (even if it's not a majority)

[upper flower]

True

I am aiming for full stack

[woeful phoenix]

I think you could say that for every single web technology out there that isn't literally HTML, CSS, and JS

[upper flower]

wish me luck backend seems hard

[shell raptor]

Yep, and most sites are not using React. Though if you are looking for a full-stack job, React is probably going to be in significant demand

[upper flower]

React is front or backend?

[shell raptor]

React is a very popular frontend framework

[upper flower]

hmm

Might try im learning php for now

[shell raptor]

Would you say you're already very familiar with CSS in general?

[upper flower]

Ye im good at it

[shell raptor]

Then learning Tailwind seems like a reasonable step

I recently discovered that CSS has native nesting and I got tempted by it too much

[upper flower]

Doesn't it just make things more confusing?

[woeful phoenix]

I think it's nicer than repeating the parent child selector on the top-level

kind of

[shell raptor]

For example, to me this very clearly says "font-size is 2rem, but on a small screen, it's 1.5rem", instead of that media query being several lines down ```css
.some.selector {
font-size: 2rem;

@media (width < 640px) {
font-size: 1.5rem;
}

/* other stuff */
}

Another use case is when you have a non-trivial selector, and then you want to apply a :hover/:focus/::<pseudoelement> selector

what CSS doesn't support is SCSS-style concatenation, so e.g. in css .offer-card { &__discount { /* ... */ } } the inner selector means __discount.offer-card (which selects non-existent __discount elements with an offer-card class) in CSS, but .offer-card__discount in SCSS

[willow narwhal]

Same and I now use it everywhere. I wish there was a tool that auto-reduced your CSS to the most compact tree.

[brittle void]

there should be a tool which makes you write some small phrases and generates relevant css for you so that you don't have to worry about it

[quasi blaze]

You have a cockroach problem too?

[upper flower]

Yes

I can kill the ones who don't fly with my foot (wearing shoes ofc)

But flying ones I can't

and im quite lucky that we dont have flying ones like i rarely see flying

[quasi blaze]

Do you have any idea how they enter your home?

[upper flower]

Through sewer type things

[quasi blaze]

Interesting. I have my drain stoppers in all of my sinks right now I still found one crawling away from my fridge in the kitchen

[upper flower]

idk whats drain stopper

I just throwed the powder in their base

[quasi blaze]

There’s definitely a reduction of roaches ever since

[upper flower]

they came out and I crushed them 1 by 1

a total of 20+

were killed

[upper flower]

oh

[quasi blaze]

That’s a severe problem

[upper flower]

I mean

once i killed that many i havent seen them anymore

[quasi blaze]

I would have evacuated immediately and called pest control

[upper flower]

its been a couple of weeks

[upper flower]

nuh uh i kill them with my shoe

satisfaction

and they only come out at night and they stay in 1 place so like

if they're in the kicthen they keep roaming there

but now it doesnt happen cause thats where i throwed the powder

but ngl

**flying **roach is scary 🙏

https://tenor.com/view/dog-shiver-shivering-scared-gif-22811013

[green pelican]

So what's the fundamental difference between writing a proof which allows us to "discover" a mathematical truth, and writing a program which allows us to "discover" an implementation?
i think there is a difference between discoving and creating

what do you mean by "discover an implementation"

you could argue that given enough time everything exists at some point in some way so you are not creating anything but just reaching the point in time when it was statistically likely to exist

[small coral]

you do not discover rock formations by stacking rocks on top of each other the same way you do not discover modules or libraries by writing
@paper quest
in essence, mathematical things to be discovered are a coincidence of nature, while a novel algorithm/implementation is a thing formed by man

and a mathematical discovery is not "manmade", it is the subject of math that is manmade, but it serves as our window/view into nature and the fundamentals of the universe, of which something can be discovered

[paper quest]

But in the same sense, can you not say that the subject of Python programming is man made, and serves as a window/view into the fundamentals of computing of which something can be discovered?

[paper quest]

I think my position forces me to argue that there isn't. Although I'm not convinced I believe it 😛

[green pelican]

almost sounds like determinism tbh

[small coral]

programming is indeed a view into the fundamentals of computing, yes, but i'm having trouble seeing that currently

[paper quest]

I don't think that's necessarily the case. I'm not arguing that we had no choice but to discover this fundamental truth of computing. Just that, if we do, it could be deemed a form of "discovery" of something which was already there.

Maybe this helps: The program already exists, in the form of the potential of that program. By implementing it, you are realizing its potential.

[green pelican]

i agree i just think you could call it a creation

[paper quest]

And could you not also call it discovery?

[green pelican]

if you mean discovery as in "discovering what was always possible with xyz" then i guess so yeah

[small coral]

a discovery doesn't seem to apply to modules though

modules are like collections or compilations rather than discoveries

a "discovery" could be said for new ways to go about solving a problem, but a module or program written is not a discovery by itself

if it is the original implementation of a discovery, then it could be said that it is a creation

or rather, an invention

but it stays bounded in the limits of being a "creation"

a discovery sits in front of our window to fundamental computing we call programming, and such creations are built to directly link us to the discovery

[paper quest]

So what's the fundamental difference between discovering an approach to solving a problem, and discovering a particular configuration of characters arranged in such a way as to be an instance of the approach to solve that problem, such that one is a discovery and the other is not?

[small coral]

you could argue that discovering a particular configuration of characters is discovery, since it would be a new sub-approach to the approach, but it would be a "smaller" one

[paper quest]

So a difference in scale but not necessarily a difference in kind?

[small coral]

but the discovery of an implementation still remains separate from the discovery of the solution

[green pelican]

@weak peak scatteredspider is cooking heavily 😨

that was supposed to be in #cybersecurity

L

[small coral]

i don't understand this but they could both be discoveries, yes

[paper quest]

Hm, okay. I didn't expect to get this much agreement out of you given how convinced you were at the start 😛

[small coral]

say a new island is discovered, that would be a solution to a problem, for example
to get to the island, a passageway should be made, which is an implementation
now people could create a bridge, a tunnel, or a traveling route by ship/plane, those are the "small discoveries" of figuring out how to make a passageway, included in the side of creation
but the island (solution) itself was not created by man, excluded from creation, and is more apt to be called a "discovery"

back to the original comparison

[paper quest]

I mean, I do agree that there are some things that fit the term "discovery" much better than others, but it seems hard to pin down exactly. I could agree that implementation is not discovery, but it looks similar if you squint.

[small coral]

christopher columbus stumbled upon a new land, not made by man, and so it is an apt "discovery"
an implementation is a passageway/route to such a land, made by man, and is a "creation"

do note that discovery is also relative to the observer

the native americans discovered the lands before columbus, but the historical recording side of the world didn't know until columbus "discovered" the lands

[paper quest]

So arguably, if I "discovered" a way to solve a problem with Python, no matter if someone else has discovered it before, this is closer to a mathematical sense of discovery if I did so independently from prior works?

[small coral]

yes

[paper quest]

You could also argue that Columbus was the one to make this information accessible to the rest of the world, so if that's a criteria for "discovery", maybe it's more apt to say that Columbus was the original discoverer of the land and not the natives who lived there? 🤔

Or, y'know, Leif Eriksson who discovered Vinland.

[small coral]

even if it wasn't about making the information accessible to the rest of the world, it is still technically a discovery

[paper quest]

If I solve an unsolved math problem and don't share it with anyone, does that make it less of a discovery?

[small coral]

it would be a discovery, but it won't be recognized under your name unless you report it first

and here is where some controversies arise, of which one such victim was newton and his laws of gravity :p

the number of new discoveries also shrink the more knowledge the world possesses

some paths to discoveries are even discarded because it would clearly cost more to get to those points

e.g. burning houses for a big bonfire would be a so-called discovery, but who the hell would do that over just collecting unprocessed flammables and burning those

[paper quest]

Someone cold who only has a house? 😛

Wait, they could just go inside... crap

[small coral]

exactly, ya

there's a lot of discoveries but only a few are worth the damning to give

anyways.

[brittle void]

does anyone know how to setup a proxy while doing some webscraping?
would be great if there are some free proxy servers

[green pelican]

last time i heard of one they got fedded cause it was just a botnet being rented out for free basically

[brittle void]

all i need is that axios node js code

im losing my patience rn

i might just ask chatgpt for that

[weak peak]

what have they done now?

[green pelican]

starting to target different companies

kinds that may impact us

:(

[weak peak]

ah yeah

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-17729711691959966457

[quasi blaze]

I usually don’t work in the office on Thursdays but I had to go back in the office halfway through my shift because I left my laptop charger there and my laptop was about to die. I told a higher-up about this and they told me “Tell X I said hi.” X works in the office on Thursdays. It was odd to me to receive that instruction because the higher up could have told X “hi” directly via Teams. I don’t see the reason for me to relay that message

[uneven pine]

this is normal human behavior

people like hearing it from a person

not from a screen

[quasi blaze]

Higher up could have told someone else that was already in the office…

[uneven pine]

but you specifically said you were going in, so you were an open window

it's not 4D chess

[tardy rain]

Its checkers

[uneven pine]

they just made a split second decision based on the information you provided

"I have to go back into the office because I forgot my charger"
"Oh tell Betty I said hi!"

That's it

it's literally no deeper than that

[tardy rain]

You dont even have to do it

Not like he'd check to see if you relayed his hi

[quasi blaze]

Again, higher up could just message them. For context, higher up works in a different office than X so they never see each other anyway

[uneven pine]

I already addressed this response

[woeful phoenix]

they're not telling you to relay the message because they have no way of contacting them otherwise
it's just that you going into that office reminded them of that person

[uneven pine]

.

[quasi blaze]

I couldn’t believe that was a work task for me

[tardy rain]

Its not a work task keezy

Being sociable isnt a work task

Its a requirement for participating in a society

[quasi blaze]

It’s literally an instruction given to me by a higher up

[tardy rain]

🤨

Are you a robot keezy

[woeful phoenix]

It's a pleasantry. Would you also consider it an instruction if your boss told you to "enjoy the weekend" as you went out on Friday?

[tardy rain]

Are you intentionally misunderstanding this social interaction

[quasi blaze]

Enjoying my weekend isn’t a work task, so no

[tardy rain]

Saying hi to a colleague isnt a work task either

[quasi blaze]

The instruction of being told to say hi to a colleague is a work task

[uneven pine]

I think I have finally figured it out

[tardy rain]

.

[uneven pine]

I think I understand Keezy correctly now

[sharp jasper]

absolute comedy

[timid latch]

People literally tell each other to say hi to people for them all the time

Often outside of work context

[tardy rain]

I have a feeling this is intentional thickness

[quasi blaze]

It would considered insubordination if didn’t do that

[uneven pine]

Can I DM you mar?

[timid latch]

No it wouldn't

[tardy rain]

Sure

But no meanness 🙅‍♀️ in my chats

Lmao

[quasi blaze]

What do you mean by that?

[tardy rain]

I mean youre being intentionally thick about this casual innocent social interaction

[timid latch]

Here it's a very common thing when talking with someone who is about to talk to somebody you both know to ask them to say hi for you

It's a social thing of choosing you were thinking of them

[quasi blaze]

First time in almost 2 years of being a developer that I have experienced this

[timid latch]

The thousand time hearing about this in 20 years of being a human

[tardy rain]

How about as a human being

[graceful basin]

IG yeah, if you aren't familiar with the social script, it's an utterly baffling interaction.

[tardy rain]

He's canadian, surely he's come across this interaction before

• English speaking
• Allegedly part of the worlds most polite society

If you want something truly baffling to think about keezy i have a situation for you

2 different developers from different cultural, educational backgrounds

Both "meow"'d at me through teams

In 2 entirely different situations

Im still trying to make sense of it

[sharp jasper]

did you meow back

[tardy rain]

No

[sharp jasper]

you failed the test

[tardy rain]

I want to make sure i understand what it means

One was out of the blue

The other one was me talking to him about a support issue and us coming to a realisation

Then the meow

I dont get it

[graceful basin]

could be a vocal stim.

[tardy rain]

Over text?

[sharp jasper]

cat should be an emoji modifier so you can do shrugging cat, bride cat, levitating cat etc.

I'd use shrugging cat here

[sharp jasper]

That seems... plausible... as an expression of sudden realization/joy

idk about the one out of the blue though

unless your coworkers have decided to do a cat themed prank on you

[timid latch]

Could be them probing to see if you are in some sub culture or something

[tardy rain]

Im not even joking btw

😭😭😭

Not the kitten gif, i cant

[harsh tundra]

Smol kimty cry

[timid latch]

Could be a quirky "hello"?

[harsh tundra]

What was the realisation? And what kind of meow was it? Like, was there a gif as well?

[young shoal]

if your boss told you to jump off a bridge, would you feel obligated to do it

[quasi blaze]

No

[glossy niche]

i hate bosses but this is a bit melodramatic

[young shoal]

aren't you being insubordinate

[quasi blaze]

No

[young shoal]

why not

[glossy niche]

ot1 always be having the weird discussions

[quasi blaze]

It’s technically not part of my work responsibilities as a software developer

According to the description written in my employment offer that I signed in writing

[timid latch]

But saying hello is?

[quasi blaze]

It is not. No

[timid latch]

So... Why did you say it was a work task?

[young shoal]

so you don't have a line saying, "other responsibilities as requested" or something like that?

[quasi blaze]

It wasn’t a question. It was written to me as if it was an instruction. I suppose I could have disobeyed to that instruction

I concede

[timid latch]

And that's different from "go jump off a bridge" in what way?

[quasi blaze]

It’s not different. It’s the same thing because both aren’t included in the job responsibilities written in my employment offer

[young shoal]

i mean, even if it were a question, that doesn't mean it's not an instruction. instructions can be phrased not in the imperative because it makes the interaction softer

[timid latch]

So why did you consider it a work task you would get in trouble for not doing?

[young shoal]

like, "can you work on this task" is can just be someone telling you to work on it

[quasi blaze]

Because he’s a higher up

[tardy rain]

That it was not our team's issue, no gif, just meow as text

[young shoal]

wack

a gif is pretty reasonable

[timid latch]

But if he told you to jump off a bridge that wouldn't be a work task?

[quasi blaze]

No

[young shoal]

i guarantee your contract has some line that says "other tasks as assigned"

[timid latch]

Why?

[quasi blaze]

Probably. I would have to read it again

[tardy rain]

Maybe its an esoteric dev thing im not cool enough to know yet

[young shoal]

let's assume such a line exists. if a task to jump off a bridge were assigned to you, would you comply

[quasi blaze]

In Ontario, anything that I deem unsafe, I can refuse

I have the right to refuse work that I deem unsafe

Saying “hi” to someone is a safe task

http://www.ontario.ca/document/guide-occupational-health-and-safety-act/part-v-right-refuse-or-stop-work-where-health-and-safety-danger

[timid latch]

Okay then, let's go back to the "have a good weekend" question then, if your boss told you that would you then forbid yourself from being bored or sad those days?

[quasi blaze]

I would have a good weekend out of my own volition. Not because my boss told me so

[harsh tundra]

Huh. Maybe a furry dev trying to see if there are more furries. Idk

[timid latch]

So it isn't a work task? Even tho your higher up "instructed" you to?

[harsh tundra]

Right, spend a few more years in the field and you'll also become a furry

[quasi blaze]

Technically it’s not because on a weekend, I am off the clock

[timid latch]

Okay, what about "have a good rest of your day" ?

[quasi blaze]

Yes

[timid latch]

So that's a instruction you must follow or not?

[quasi blaze]

Yes

[uneven pine]

Someone at work wrote "OwO" on a monitor

I've been trying to figure out who

[timid latch]

So if you were sad while at home that day you could get in trouble at work?

[quasi blaze]

No I could not because I wouldn’t have reported to a higher up that I was sad while at home

[timid latch]

What if somebody else Reported it?

[quasi blaze]

I suppose the task wasn’t fulfilled then

[grave cove]

there is no way we're having this conversation right now

[timid latch]

And you could get in trouble for that?

[quasi blaze]

I wouldn’t believe so because it’s the intent that matters

I intended to have a good day

[timid latch]

But you were unsuccessful in a explicit work task, and that's a road to getting fired after a while

[grave cove]

god tier ragebait up in here

[uneven pine]

Keezy, have you considered talking to a professional?

[grave cove]

real

[uneven pine]

A mental health professional

I mean this out of genuine concern for you

[quasi blaze]

that's a road to getting fired after a while

How did your premise lead you up to this conclusion?

[uneven pine]

Not out of malice

Not to make fun

But genuinely

[timid latch]

Failling to complete work tasks is grounds for termination

[grave cove]

i think getting professionally tested for neurodivergence might reveal some answers

[uneven pine]

^

I am beginning to understand now why I thought you were so young for so long

[quasi blaze]

Some people have failed work tasks and they’re still employed

[timid latch]

But if you fail over and over, like say you're sad every day even when told to have a good day by your boss

[quasi blaze]

Well in this situation, one could get fired then

[timid latch]

You really believe that?

[grave cove]

blud got termined for failure to have a good day

[quasi blaze]

It’s a possibility just off of not aligning with the work culture

[timid latch]

Being sad at home doesn't align with the work culture?

[quasi blaze]

If the work culture promotes being cheerful and happy and you’re not doing that, yes you could be fired

[timid latch]

Execept that would be illegal

You can't fire somebody for their emotional state at home even if told by a superior to "have a good day".

[grave cove]

are we deadass

[timid latch]

That's what I gave been trying to make you see, social "instructions" like "have a good day" aren't work tasks, or instructions at all, just nice gestures

[quasi blaze]

Okay so why did you give me these lines of questioning then?

[timid latch]

I was just following your logic

You were the one that claimed it was a work task, I took that premise to its logical conclusion

[quasi blaze]

Okay so social given instructions aren’t work tasks is your position?

[timid latch]

No, they aren't in any position

[tardy rain]

How long before cited for sadness while in public

[quasi blaze]

Okay fine. I’ll concede to that

[tardy rain]

Does that mean you'll say hi to betty

[timid latch]

(unless your job is explicitly being social, like a waitress, or something. But as a baseline, no they aren't)

[quasi blaze]

No

[timid latch]

Which is fine, if a little rude

[grave cove]

your boss didnt give you an instruction

well, you could technically classify it as such but most people wouldn't

[wooden silo]

"Tell X I said hi" is just an expression

[grave cove]

^

[wooden silo]

It's not a command

[grave cove]

same with "have a good day"

in the grammatical sense it is an imperative but its usually never taken as such

[wooden silo]

It's social protocol, getting people to connect with each other. Like, hi, I know you, I also know that other guy, we all know each other, wee.

[tardy rain]

I have a feeling keezy doesnt thank people unless he's instructed to

And thats kinda rude imho

[grave cove]

i think they need to see a doctor

there might be some underlying issues

[wooden silo]

These kinds of social behaviors don't come naturally to some people, and that's ok.

Like for example people on the spectrum

[tardy rain]

Not it feeling natural is one thing but insisting its not natural is another

[green pelican]

THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE LITERAL?

[wooden silo]

I mean, it's essentially the case.

[tropic ore]

huh.?

[wooden silo]

"Tell X I said hi", the only value derived is strengthening social bonds

[green pelican]

oh my god

i need to go get a diagnosis brb

[tropic ore]

tbh if person A tells me "tell B i said hi" i would literally tell B that "A said hi"

[wooden silo]

There's nothing wrong with that.

[tropic ore]

ya

[wooden silo]

But the point is to reinforce the bonds between the three of you.

[green pelican]

for 19 years of my life i thought rolling your eyes meant literally doing the 🔄 motion

im 20

[wooden silo]

I mean, you sorta do.

[green pelican]

nononono

you just go up

id do a crazy eye type thing

[wooden silo]

I think it varies from person to person exactly how you do it.

[tropic ore]

WHAt??

[weak peak]

unc status unlocked

[graceful basin]

good news is that if you do it literally you still succeed at the social script, so it's kind of fine.

[green pelican]

i hate society

everything shuold be literal change my mind

[green pelican]

bro ur older than me

[wooden silo]

But for what it's worth, in Swedish it's called "himla med ögonen", which literally means "heaven/sky (as a verb) with the eyes", i. e. look up

[green pelican]

i dont wanna hear it gramps

[weak peak]

I am in fact not

[green pelican]

WHAT

[weak peak]

nice try though

[harsh tundra]

Write uwu next to it and see what happens

[green pelican]

no way

[weak peak]

unfortunate

[green pelican]

i thiought u were like 24

[weak peak]

unc only realized now

[green pelican]

thats crazy

[weak peak]

24 💀

[green pelican]

damn

yeah fr

[weak peak]

what am I, Rem?

[green pelican]

idk why

[weak peak]

🥴

[green pelican]

bro rem is

pushing 4000

so

[harsh tundra]

I read online that the actual roll like in cartoons is deemed to be exaggerated and kind of theatrical in real life... This was also coming from some ND person who was doing that for years (because it's literally called eye roll, duh, and cartoons etc literally roll their eyes) and was always told off by parents and teachers until someone told them about eyes up vs roll...

[harsh tundra]

And how old do I seem to be?

[solid elbow]

lol, wait, really? 😅

[wooden silo]

I mean, it's not like you can't do it, but it's not like anyone will be upset if you don't,

[solid elbow]

true

[wooden silo]

And there's no practical purpose, it's just to reaffirm social bonds.

[tropic ore]

this is literally what i kinda do

[solid elbow]

what country are we talking about here?

cause, in the US, you absolutely can

[uneven pine]

in most US states "I just don't like the dude" is a good enough reason to fire them

[timid latch]

.... wtf

[solid elbow]

where "most" is "literally all but one"

[uneven pine]

it's called "At-will employment"

[solid elbow]

and the one exception has hardly any people living in it, heh

[quasi blaze]

If that was their intention then that’s cringe

[solid elbow]

???

[wooden silo]

Social bonding is one of the key factors that allowed us to become the dominant species on the planet.

[quasi blaze]

How does this invalidate my claim that it’s cringe?

[timid latch]

Norway, you cant fire somebody without documentating a reason that has to do with the company itself (i.e you can fire them because you cant afford to pay them, but not because they were sad at home)

[graceful basin]

Is it bad that it's cringe?

[solid elbow]

in the US, you can fire someone for any reason at all, except for about 7 specific reasons (racism, sexism, disability, etc) so you have to pretend you're firing them for a different reason

[wooden silo]

Subjectively, you can find anything cringe, I guess. But what I said makes it a lot less cringey for me.

[solid elbow]

"the biggest evolutionary advantage of mankind is cringe" is a hell of a take

[quasi blaze]

I suppose. To each their own

[timid latch]

An employee cannot be dismissed without objective justification based on the company's, employer's or employee's circumstances.
-# translated from the norwegian Working Environment Act

[wooden silo]

We have unusually strong labor laws in Scandinavia.

Though I think the US has unusually weak ones for a developed nation as well.

[quasi blaze]

You’re from Scandinavia? You write eloquent English

[thick osprey]

Impressively weak ones in the most interesting ways.

[solid elbow]

serious question, @quasi blaze - have you ever been screened for autism spectrum disorder? You might want to try taking an online screening if not - there's tests that you can do online in 10 or 15 minutes that can give you a pretty good indication of whether or not you're on the spectrum

[wooden silo]

Our English is pretty good on average, but mine is better than most here as well.

[green pelican]

I'm autistic as hell

[timid latch]

link for anybody wanting to see it (that line is from $15-7 (1)): https://lovdata.no/nav/lov/2005-06-17-62/kap15

[graceful basin]

Doesn't the USA run into the situation where they can't fire people since they then have to pay unemployment, so you end up with employees harassed into quitting europe-style.

[green pelican]

Yes

[quasi blaze]

Nah I have not. Contrary to popular belief, I believe I don’t fall under that spectrum

[solid elbow]

fun story, I took one of the online autism screeners, and it said that I'm probably on the spectrum, and a few days later I mentioned that to one of my oldest friends, and she sarcastically gasped and said "no!"

[green pelican]

Dude that happened to me too

The I realized I look so fuckin autistic and everyone at work was suspiciously nice to me

[shell raptor]

I cringe at/don't understand many social rituals and I'm not on the spectrum

[timid latch]

I am not officially on the spectrum, but I was pretty close.
tho that was a test taken when I was like 10 or something

[quasi blaze]

I think some of you guys are over psychoanalyzing me

[solid elbow]

it really might be worth trying it. You might be surprised. I was surprised by some of the things that turn out to be symptoms that I never even thought about. And the way you approach social situations strongly suggests that you're looking at things from a very different perspective than the average person

[wooden silo]

I feel like people on the spectrum may be overrepresented among people who work in software.

[green pelican]

My entire SOC is ND ash

[solid elbow]

yeah, I've got more close friends who are neurospicy than not

[quasi blaze]

I was never an analytical nor a sequential thinker up until I got into tech

[green pelican]

The regulars on this server too lol

[thick osprey]

I often feel like there is a weird pressure to fit people on the spectrum for reasons that don't make sense.

[woeful phoenix]

I don't think the employer directly pays unemployment for the people they fire

[shell raptor]

Is it more difficult to get hired in countries where it's unusually hard to fire someone? Presumably because it is more risky for the employer to acquire a potentially stinky employee that they cannot fire

[quasi blaze]

I’m more on the creative and imaginative side.

My mathematical skills are also very poor

[graceful basin]

You get paid less

[wooden silo]

I get the impression people on the spectrum are attracted to social environments where they can communicate through text, because it's less confusing.

[graceful basin]

And companies can't make large investments outside of B2B contracts (you can fire everyone by going bankrupt).

[quasi blaze]

Idk why people have the speculation that I am neurodivergent

[uneven pine]

Homie

[solid elbow]

yes

[wooden silo]

I think it was the whole interpreting "Tell X I said hi" as a work order thing, mainly

[uneven pine]

You had a meltdown over being asked to greet someone

[thick osprey]

Because you don't fit in their ideal neuro box. It's weird, I know.

[green pelican]

Yup I have gone almost days without saying words IRL but man I'm a little unhinged on the internet

[uneven pine]

And this is nowhere near the first time you've gone on about something that makes it quite apparent you struggle with social norms and basic human interaction

[quasi blaze]

You must interpret meltdowns differently then

[brittle void]

i thought you're older than me

[green pelican]

I did too..

[grave cove]

wild

😬

[timid latch]

in other news I got my first rejection email today

[green pelican]

This cigar is very mid

[solid elbow]

I mean, I've interacted with you for years at this point, and a lot of your behaviors and attitudes are ones that are extremely common amongst autistic people. Having a rigid system of rules that you follow, for instance. Difficulty recognizing the purpose of social rituals. Trouble making small talk. Etc.

[wooden silo]

Not being able to read and understand social cues is like the classic symptom

[green pelican]

Yeahh

[brittle void]

im already a father figure to a kid in this server

yeah, same

[graceful basin]

Even just requiring reasoning for social interactions.

[green pelican]

I'm sorry for that kid

[spare oriole]

My mathematical skills are also very poor, having great mathematical skills is not a requisite for being a programmer. / SWE

[timid latch]

Your background is still interesting to us and we hope you will apply for another position with us in the future
hmmm sure, I will take that into account generic template

wtf discord

[green pelican]

Lmao

[timid latch]

I was scrolled up in chat, why tf are you scrolling when new messages are sent

[brittle void]

is it just for me or discord lagging out?

[green pelican]

I'm glad I got rejected for a help desk last year cause I got into a SOC instead

[shell raptor]

When I open dev tools on discord, it crashes Firefox

[brittle void]

what is soc?

[shell raptor]

System on a chip

[brittle void]

SOCkets?

[solid elbow]

yeah. And it's very common for people who are on the spectrum but not profoundly disabled to not get diagnosed until adulthood. Most of the symptoms are just difficulty understanding why other people are doing what they do

[green pelican]

No

[brittle void]

oh

[green pelican]

Security operations center lol

[quasi blaze]

Big difference between having difficulty to socialize vs refusing to socialize

[timid latch]

and which are you?

[young shoal]

not a requirement, but certainly quite helpful

[quasi blaze]

That’s irrelevant to my claim

[solid elbow]

neither one of those is necessarily related to ASD. The one that is related to ASD is difficulty seeing the value in socializing

[green pelican]

Real

[quasi blaze]

Are you suggesting that I don’t see the value of socializing?

[solid elbow]

yes, absolutely

we've had many conversations in the past about how much it would benefit your career to be having lunch with your boss, or things like that

[quasi blaze]

Where’s the value of socializing with particular co-workers in the workplace?

[grave cove]

same as socializing with anyone else. they're also just people

[quasi blaze]

And I hardly do any of those things and still a got raise

[solid elbow]

we've had conversations specifically about that in the past, you can just search through old messages to see my views on that

[wooden silo]

My wife was diagnosed when she was 30, so yeah, that's something I'm quite familiar with.

[solid elbow]

I get it, you don't like being armchair diagnosed. Fair enough. But really, you might want to try taking one of the online screeners. You might be surprised what you learn about yourself.

[harsh tundra]

You've basically been peer-diagnosed. You do show many signs. Why are you opposed to the idea?

[grave cove]

maybe you could've gotten more or some other oppurtunities. you wouldn't know if you missed them

unknown unknown type shit

[harsh tundra]

That is not requirement for ASD

[quasi blaze]

Where’s the source that backs up your argument?

[grave cove]

just trust me

[quasi blaze]

No