ot1-perplexing-regexing

[uneven pine]

I run gnome shell on it with Tumbleweed and it works surprisingly well

[fresh basalt]

@glossy niche How do you feel about rolling releases? Do you like to update your machine all the time or do you not exactly care about new and exciting software and just want something stable and usable?

[uneven pine]

Also old hardware that can't run modern windows properly is literally the only time I'm okay with Linux on the desktop :p

Tumbleweed is stable.

[fresh basalt]

I don't like dealing with MS bullshit, so different strokes I guess.

[uneven pine]

And usable

[fresh basalt]

I haven't used any flavor of SUSE in well over a decade I think.

[uneven pine]

And I like a computer that actually works for what I use it for 🤣

They're genuinely great

And the community doesn't suck

[fresh basalt]

My machine works for every thing I use it for.

I even play BG3 on it.

[uneven pine]

Unlike arch and Ubuntu and fedora and etc etc etc

[graceful basin]

I'll recommend against nixOS

Next year, sorry

[fresh basalt]

I hate that stupid meme.

[uneven pine]

Gaming is better on Linux than it ever has been

[fresh basalt]

No, it's an obnoxious vim vs. emacs meme.

[uneven pine]

Interested of 90% of things not working like it was 5 years ago

Like 75% of things work

[fresh basalt]

It showcases a lack of depth.

[uneven pine]

It's actually great to see Linux as a desktop progressing

[glossy niche]

not super stoked about maintaining an old device, so ill have to say no to it

[uneven pine]

But it still has ~10 years to go before it'll ever be reasonable

[glossy niche]

win 11 sucks ass and i fucking hate it

[fresh basalt]

@glossy niche Then get something with a slow release cycle. Look at Debian.

[glossy niche]

i did use ubuntu for a while

i think its OK

[uneven pine]

Updating!= Maintaining

[glossy niche]

[graceful basin]

I need fairly little from an OS - manage windows, run software on hardware. Windows has IME been more reliable in that way.

[glossy niche]

i was interested in nixos because of the whole single config file thing

but i guess its more useful for a server than a desktop

[uneven pine]

Try Tumbleweed

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised

[glossy niche]

alright, ill give it a look, thanks a lot

[graceful basin]

Nix is mired in internal politics

[glossy niche]

also, i dont do gaming at all

worthy of note

[wanton delta]

I wonder why he dislikes debian installation, honestly it's not that bad

[glossy niche]

i have a main PC with win 11 installed on it as an escape hatch

[graceful basin]

I've not found a linux installer I liked yet

[wanton delta]

Ubuntu was pretty smooth

[fresh basalt]

He doesn't dislike it, he hasn't tried it in awhile.

[wanton delta]

Debian does feel like an installer from 10 years ago but, it worked fine

[fresh basalt]

There's a newer video but people meme on the old one.

[graceful basin]

every single one I've tried has ended up editing the system boot order and other such things I did not tell it to do.

[glossy niche]

i maintain 5 ubuntu servers for work

not desktop ofc

[wanton delta]

Do you have the link handy

[fresh basalt]

People prefer memes over accuracy.

Nope

It was in some Q&A I think

[wanton delta]

Hmm
Changing the boot order is just something i expect from either windows or Linux, so it didn't bother me as much

[wanton delta]

I think i know

Is it one where linus was wearing a red shirt

[glossy niche]

welp, my only issue now is backing everything up before switching the old PC from win 10 to linux

256gb -> 1tb

should be easy but i also hate the idea of using my fancy new ssd for a backup lol

mmmmmmm i guess ill start copying stuff over now, thanks for the advice guys

[wanton delta]

Disks are meant to handle IO

What use of them would be if they're not backing up stuff

[glossy niche]

im thinking of buying a couple HDDs and using them to back up all my data

family photos, etc

[wanton delta]

Cool

[fresh basalt]

Storage is relatively inexpensive.

[wanton delta]

Raid 5 for redundancy and you will not lose anything

I buy cheap and dodgy hdds and raid 1 them lol

[glossy niche]

my friend does that

he got 8tb of storage for like

100$

[wanton delta]

A steal

[glossy niche]

over 3 HDDs

which is better imo, backups and stuff

[wanton delta]

If 3 hdd raid 5 that's 3 4tb drives

Not bad

[glossy niche]

no no no, the disks are 8tb in TOTAL

[eternal depot]

@vale raven

[drowsy rose]

so true

[tulip falcon]

Shill me on pyenv

[lament cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/snow-leopard-sniff-sniffing-smell-curious-gif-1078252432895034124

[wanton delta]

i just wanna start making shit what is it doing rrre

[jaunty wraith]

getting Scala
it says right there

[wanton delta]

😂

D;:

[jaunty wraith]

dog

[wanton delta]

i wanna grab its tail someday

it looks heavy

[jaunty wraith]

looks fluffy to me

[hearty violet]

first person to use scala in years

[jaunty wraith]

it's popular in some circles

[hearty violet]

the last time I saw someone say they were using it were 2-3 years ago

[wanton delta]

why u laughin at me

[tulip falcon]

I'm not

[jaunty wraith]

don't let @spiral zephyr hear you

[tulip falcon]

Whatcha doin in Scala?

[wanton delta]

learning FP ig

zestar recommended it to me

i might need to use another editor than my usual

[spiral zephyr]

Still used heavily in big tech

And it's a good learning experience

Reading functional programming in Scala makes you a better programmer

[tulip falcon]

Does it teach you what is a monad?

[spiral zephyr]

Even if you will not do any functional programming (or Scala) afterwards

[spiral zephyr]

It teaches you what a monad is after 200 pages or so

It lets you implement 5+ monads

And then it tells you "by the way, did you notice those things you implemented had something in common?"

[jaunty wraith]

I did not notice

[spiral zephyr]

Did you read it?

[tulip falcon]

How does this compare to learning some haskell?

[spiral zephyr]

With Scala you can learn the syntax first without diving into FP

That's an advantage, Haskell's syntax is very foreign to begin with. Struggling with syntax and new concepts at the same time is too much effort

[wanton delta]

does sbt give you somethign like cargo watch

or just an easier way to compile a scala file

[spiral zephyr]

https://github.com/spray/sbt-revolver

[wanton delta]

scalac src/main/scala/Main.scala having to type this out is a bit of a pain

noice

[spiral zephyr]

Btw you may want to check out scala-cli

The experience is closer to cargo, even more simple 🙂

[wanton delta]

lets go

[spiral zephyr]

SBT is very annoying

[wanton delta]

how do you start a new scala project? im doing the sbt new scala/scala3.g8 as told by the getting started page

[jaunty wraith]

no lol

[wanton delta]

and weirdly helix's metals lsp only works when I create a full on project

[jaunty wraith]

IIRC, there's an option to allow "single file projects"

[tulip falcon]

I got the recommended book

What a way to spend a Saturday night 😹

[wanton delta]

i might need to start a new project every time (not a big deal)

[rough sapphire]

(its a big deal)

[spiral zephyr]

I just make the files myself

But maybe using the template is a good idea

Imo skip using SBT

Just use scala-cli as long as you can

If you use scala-cli you don't need to use the src/main/scala layout either

[wanton delta]

yea i notced

it's still downloading stuff though

lots of jar files

is this java

[jaunty wraith]

Scala is a JVM language, so yes

[wanton delta]

does this mean i can say I have written java without having to write java

[jaunty wraith]

yesn't

[wanton delta]

also im on java 17
does that matter

[jaunty wraith]

no

[tulip falcon]

Have you really written java if you haven't written public static void main(String[] args)

[wanton delta]

beautiful
so much better

[tulip falcon]

Wait for me!

[wanton delta]

why is it showing rust's crate
my fish shell is f'd up

[jaunty wraith]

sounds fishy

[spiral zephyr]

Btw if you're looking for learning material, the "Scala book" on the website is good

[tulip falcon]

His fish shell is f'shed up

[wanton delta]

yeah im following it rn

[tulip falcon]

In what context? Scala beginners? Functional programming book isn't for beginners?

[spiral zephyr]

I think functional programming in Scala is better as a second book

The more you know about the syntax before you read the book the less trouble it'll be

[tulip falcon]

Mh the table of contents looked interesting, maybe I'll read it later. Back to coding some cpp

[wanton delta]

what a weird way to write things

the for loop though

😻

[hearty violet]

I learned FP in Haskell and did a bit of ocaml but then moved back to more procedural languages

funny thing is while I did learn a lot I ended up doubling down on procedural languages

[spiral zephyr]

I've never used a loop in Scala 👀

[spiral zephyr]

That's fine imo. I think even if you use procedural languages it still teaches a lot

How I write my code is still functional inspired (especially with respect to managing effects)

[hearty violet]

I learned a lot from it but I think more than half the stuff is non applicable anywhere else tho

the only stuff I still use is pattern matching and combinators when the language supports it and makes sense to do, I rarely write recursive functions and knowing about monads or functors or currying hasn't really changed anything

I for my case in specific if I just gone and learned rust I'd still end in the same destination

[tulip falcon]

I'm listening

[spiral zephyr]

Yeah but these are the irrelevant things imo

It's more about how functional languages want you to write a software in the large while you're talking about writing things in the small

[hearty violet]

hm

[spiral zephyr]

for instance, the misconception is that you can't do side effects in FP. That's wrong, you can if you have an IO monad

But you don't want to have IO everywhere

Which means you try and write as much non-effectful code as possible

And keep IO at the edges

[hearty violet]

I'm aware of the IO and State monads in Haskell
and the state transformer pattern and whatnot

[spiral zephyr]

Hmm then you may actually not have done enough Haskell and it may be worth to revisit 😄

Like, try making a backend web app

Maybe try some tagless final algebras

[wanton delta]

I may know why
Im not there yet

[hearty violet]

yeah, I technically learned that from haskell
but what I was saying is that most of those got reinforced for me when I learned Rust

and Rust does most of the big lessons I took from haskell and ocaml while still having more widespread usage and better tooling (imo)

also when I start writing bigger programs in haskell I feel like I'm code golfing, whereas in rust it's quite readable

[spiral zephyr]

I have more examples, when you write code and you understand what monoids are you can try and reorganise things in a way that is monoidal

Because then you can use easy parallelism

[hearty violet]

that may be the case yes
I did haskell for a month or 2
and I never wrote a big program in it

[spiral zephyr]

The distinction between applicatives and monads is also cool, especially when you're writing concurrent code in any language

[acoustic moss]

how are they related to parallelism /gen

[spiral zephyr]

coroutine1 = async_fn1()
coroutine2 = async_fn2()
asyncio.gather([coroutine1, coroutine2])

Now, this breaks applicative laws in Python because coroutines/async in Python and JS isn't lazy but it is in Rust. This is typical applicative behaviour, your combining two independent computations.

coroutine1 = await async_fn1()
coroutine2 = await async_fn2()

await on the other hand is very very similar to bind/flatmap of a monad. You have an explicit notion of dependency between coroutine1 and coroutine2.

[fierce adder]

Yes, most sites use this lol… for example if you sign up to google, their max password limit is 100… there are some sites that won’t tell you this, and also some sites which don’t have a limit but logging in on their mobile app is limited and won’t allow you to login lol

[harsh tundra]

But 100 is something that most people won't hit. Even the 72 bytes mentioned by Joe - that's 72 characters ascii, or 36 2-byte characters. Still long even if you have full-Cyrillic password or something similar (Latin extension for diacritics would be between those lengths - as it would be partially 1-byte and partially 2-byte characters)

While many sites have arbitrary length limit of like 16 or so... I think even Office 365 had such limit a few years back (idk about now)

[solemn tulip]

having some limit is really fine, as long as it's large enough that it just doesn't matter practically

70 something sure hits that

!e even just considering alnum ascii the allowed number of bits of information is immense

import string, math
chars = string.ascii_letters + string.digits
print(math.log2(len(chars)**70), 'bits')

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

416.7937417270813 bits

[rough sapphire]

!e

print(“ok”)

[royal lake]

:x: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 1.

001 |   File "/home/main.py", line 1
002 |     print(“ok”)
003 |           ^
004 | SyntaxError: invalid character '“' (U+201C)

[rough sapphire]

!e
print(‘ok’)

[royal lake]

:x: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 1.

001 |   File "/home/main.py", line 1
002 |     print(‘ok’)
003 |           ^
004 | SyntaxError: invalid character '‘' (U+2018)

[rough sapphire]

!e

print("ok")

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

ok

[rough sapphire]

long press quotation mark

button

or disable smart punctuation in settings

[stable fulcrum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ0lCm0J3PM this guy built a ANN in minecraft

[main yacht]

https://github.com/YYN192/ecosystem-simulation
how shit is this code

[fresh basalt]

You mean like according to the Bristol stool chart or...

[rich cape]

Just changed username

[jovial oriole]

https://youtu.be/kgyVN5S_XV0?si=6lEL4mlY-gWSs0LA

Its an outside edit

discord users cannot relate sadly

[sinful shard]

!e py from altifier import alty_text alty_text("hello")

[royal lake]

:x: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 1.

001 | Traceback (most recent call last):
002 |   File "/home/main.py", line 1, in <module>
003 |     from altifier import alty_text
004 | ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'altifier'

[sinful shard]

!e cmd pip install altifier

[thick osprey]

@hasty grove - Moving here since it isn't python.

git ls-tree main --name-only

Do you see your venv directory in the list?

[hasty grove]

HI

[hasty grove]

running this command rn!

[hasty grove]

no

: (

I see other folders tho!

[thick osprey]

Then it isn't tracked and it's not commited.

If it doesn't list under git status that means you are ignoring it correctly.

[hasty grove]

YOOOO

omg thanks so much preoct

[hasty grove]

how did you get so good at git 🤩

[thick osprey]

If your editor is showing differently, just restart it or something?

[hasty grove]

like did you memorize this command or something???

[thick osprey]

years of using it.

[hasty grove]

I'll try this

[hasty grove]

how do I get so good with only a few months of using it 🤩

[thick osprey]

No, I always need to look up ls-tree. I never remember how to use it.

Apparently git ls-tree main -d --name-only would only show directories. today I learned.

Oh, I also ran all the commands before suggesting them. "Really good at [something]" usually just means knowing what to look up (search) and how to play with it until it works.

[hasty grove]

" just means knowing what to look up (search)" omg I kinda of vibe with this statement

Like its not about memorizing python syntax / the exact commands

but being able to know what to search up and then you can quickly implement it

[hasty grove]

I also have to bother you with another question 🤩

[thick osprey]

Yup. Welcome to the greatest secret of most skills.

[hasty grove]

so I am trying to git ignore a .env file

when I do that tho....

lemme show you pick of gitignore file

I also did the "undo commit" thing you told me about

[thick osprey]

https://github.com/Preocts/python-src-template/blob/main/.gitignore#L1-L3

Just need .env. It will ignore any file in any directory that matches the pattern.

[royal lake]

.gitignore lines 1 to 3

temp_*
.env
venv/```

[thick osprey]

I will safely say you never need to commit a .env file so ignoring them all is great.

[hasty grove]

wait wait

could you explain to me how this works?

temp_*

I know * means "everything"

.env is obv what we want to yeet

wut

[thick osprey]

That's something I use in my projects. I name temp files temp_something.... So I just have that in my .gitignore file.

[hasty grove]

omfg that is so smart

I just commit my temp files

cuz I always forget to delete them

lmfaooooo

[thick osprey]

My work pattern includes proto_* as well since I do a lot of prototyping and have anything from one to hundreds of junk files during a day.

For me: temp_ is trash, I won't be sad to lose it. proto_ might be value, so I second guess deleting them.

[hasty grove]

what is prototyping?

[hasty grove]

for me I do temp when I want to testing something out

[thick osprey]

Writing code that "just works". No style. No form. No best practise. Just make it work.

[hasty grove]

oh, and then you make it pretty (comments, proper variables names) later?

[thick osprey]

prototypes prove something is doable and discover all the things you didn't think about along the way. They usually get rewritten, not just cleaned.

[hasty grove]

wdym rewritten? Whenever I code a program, if it works, then I don't rewrite the logic

btw I am mediocre at programming

and don't do it as a job

[thick osprey]

Read and listen to enough people and you'll hear the phrase "Throw your prototype away".

[hasty grove]

so like should I start prototyping my files?

[hasty grove]

when you rewrite it, what kinda stuff do you do?

[thick osprey]

Only if you want to. Writing code is more important than how you are writing code. You'll learn what works best for you.

[thick osprey]

If a prototype is moving to a production ready "something" then it get proper form, encapsulation, interfaces, etc. Something maintainable.

[solemn tulip]

prototype, during the process you will learn how things should be done

with that in mind refactor or completely rewrite to get something nicer

[hasty grove]

I've never refactored /rewritten working code in my life (besides adding comments and stuff), so I'm not sure how to do that lol

[thick osprey]

A prototype is often full of bad ideas. It works. But it's usually bad. So "throw it away" means literally rewrite the entire goal from nothing so you avoid bringing those prototype hacks into production.

[bleak lintel]

when prototyping you can often omit a few things which take time when you build your actual solution, it's fine if a prototype errors, if it's slightly inefficient, if it's not split out into nicer methods cleanly, etc., as long as it works and proves that your overall idea of the involved logic works.

then, you can take the snippets and build a more fully formed solution to factor in efficiency, error handling, splitting one long method into a handful of smaller methods, applying OOP concepts if it's appropriate to reduce code re-use, and adding in documentation/typing

[solemn tulip]

you've never looked at your code and thought, "this could be so much cleaner"?

[hasty grove]

😭

I mean none of my code has been particular complex ig?

[thick osprey]

haha, it's okay. That happens in due time.

[hasty grove]

like the BIGGEST program I have ever written was like 300 lines of code

[warped sentinel]

There are many opportunities. For instance:

• You want to try something out. Like try a library or using a functional style
• Your code needs to evolve and account for new features and requirements
• etc.

[bleak lintel]

the list of things that is "prototype" vs "actual solution" varies based on the programmer, the project and the problem, and for some people writing prototypes closer to finished code is their preferred style of working, but personally I like to bash out some messy implementation with no typing, no docs, just to get something working, and then reapproach it line-by-line and ask things like "could this error?", "is this efficient?", "am I reusing this? (can I split it out into it's own method)"

all these things though are a learned skill, it's not something that you really can (or really, imo, should) try copy exactly from other people, because it's just as much about how things flow in your brain as it is how they flow on the screen, so I think that's the important take-away I'd give you here, don't force it, over time it's the kind of thing that should come naturally

[thick osprey]

A simple example is that my prototypes have zero error handling. If they crash, they crash. That doesn't fly for production so one of the many things that changes between the two is error handling, recovery, or logging.

[hasty grove]

hmm I think what I end up doing is having my prototype file slowly evolve to my actual solution? Like there are def times where I code something, and then realize its better as a function and change my code accordingly

[young shoal]

https://tenor.com/uXxh.gif

[hasty grove]

ohhhh this is a good example, yeah this makes perfect sense

[lament cairn]

chiming in with my 1 cent: my projects start as one huge ugly file with no care whatsoever about structure, then I break it up into modules and submodules and set up pyproject and ...
some of my projects' code don't change much compared to the initial single script

[hasty grove]

I don't think I have ever done error handling 💀

[solemn tulip]

I was about to say "learn to hate bad code", but maybe that's a bit extreme

[thick osprey]

Cue the product owner: This is great! When can you push this to prod?

Me:

[bleak lintel]

that is also a completely fine way of doing it! and certainly the way I did it as I was beginning.

all I would say if you are taking that approach is to make sure you consider your code as a whole, learn to spot patterns like code-reuse that you can optimise, step through every line of your solution and make sure you know what it is doing, and think of the cases where it can error, and if appropriate, how best to handle that error

[hasty grove]

wait lokey what is the best tutorial to learn error handling? I wanna learn how to do that soon haha

I know try and except but that is only for if like the user gives a bad input

[bleak lintel]

the really really big thing here is, you should do what works for you and what comes naturally, you should not force it, and it really is a learned skill that will come naturally

[thick osprey]

Building things is the best learning experience for errors.

[bleak lintel]

^ agree on that, i guess the kind of "trick" here is that actually getting to the stage where an error has occurred is an expensive operation

you want to stop exceptions before they even happen

i recommend just walking through your programs, learning about the functions you are calling, thinking what can go wrong, and then adding handling before that to stop the error, the last resort should be doing a try/except

[fresh basalt]

What is this, Java?

[solemn tulip]

looking at code and thinking "how could I break this" is good practice for finding edge cases needing handling/testing

[fresh basalt]

I'm naturally gifted at breaking stuff. :P

[hasty grove]

what does handling look like? Like "if userGive NegativeNumber, print ("You need to give me positive number")?

[fresh basalt]

I don't need a fuzzer to find bugs. :P

[fresh basalt]

sure, whatever handles the error condition

[solemn tulip]

"I poke at stuff to see if they crumble" was a phrase I used for myself for a bit

[bleak lintel]

as an example, say you've got some code that does ```py
my_list.index(some_user_input)

it's worth learning that things like `list.index` raise an exception if the value is not found, now you *can* handle that in a `try/except`, or you can try find an approach to find a value in a list in a way that avoids errors, something like:
```py
found_index = -1

for idx, value in enumerate(my_list):
  if value == user_input:
    found_index = idx
    break

it's just thinking about each line and thinking "given a set of inputs, how could this break, and how can i handle that break (i.e. can you handle it with conditional logic beforehand), if you can't, it's how you process and recover from that exception

[solemn tulip]

though keep in mind the second code there will be slower

another axis to keep in mind

[young shoal]

and also more cringe

[bleak lintel]

lol ya, it's not the best example, but one that quickly came to my mind

efficiency is something to consider though yeah

[solemn tulip]

efficiency in python can get weird though

[hasty grove]

so its better to do the second block of code, then the first block of code with a try/except?

[hasty grove]

aren't both O(n)?

[warped sentinel]

Beyond the tactics:

• Read books like https://pragprog.com/titles/tpp20/the-pragmatic-programmer-20th-anniversary-edition/ or code complete which focus on the craft
• Read books about testing
• Look into the practices related to proving code. For instance pre-conditions have saved my butt countless times
• Look at how other languages deal with errors

[solemn tulip]

one is implemented in C code, one is python code

[bleak lintel]

again, depends on what makes more sense and the context, if there is an easy way to stop an exception before it happens, take it, but if doing that prevention measure ends up crushing your efficiency, don't take it and handle the try/except

yea built-in methods leverage C so are naturally faster

[solemn tulip]

it can often come down to "don't write python code" 🥴

[hasty grove]

💀

[hasty grove]

especially when we have assembly at our disposal

[solemn tulip]

i.e. things like leveraging stuff that boils down code where you can, even sometimes when technically suboptimal

[hasty grove]

dude I have heard of so many mentions of pragmatic programmer I'll def check this out 🤩

[solemn tulip]

one example that annoyed me for the longest time was "what's the fastest way to count the 1 bits of an int"

and the not satisfying answer for the longest time was bin(x).count('1') even though it's supremely wasteful

[hasty grove]

why is it wasteful, just curious?

[solemn tulip]

in big part because writing "better" approaches involves writing python code

[hasty grove]

isn't the best approach log(n) given an integer n

[solemn tulip]

converting to a string for no real reason

[hasty grove]

ah

[solemn tulip]

there is int.bit_count now at least, so I don't have to be too annoyed at it anymore 😛

[rough sapphire]

346887070472

Here, gabriel.

[native tendon]

Where's the Emoji Movie? I wanna watch it

[marble bay]

please watch any of the movies from sony that are, to put it conservatively, not utter garbage

[small coral]

the emoji movie wasn't too bad, but that's probably because i was like 9 back then when i watched it

[soft violet]

I think were I to watch it, I'd be watching it purely because of Patrick Stewart.

[weak peak]

what I imagine fernet encryption would look like if it were an animal

[eternal depot]

Did you ever get to look at that dudes virus?

[weak peak]

Which one? I deal with many

[eternal depot]

Idk. It was a help thread. Person had an exe that they "couldn't delete". I pinged you cuz it seemed interesting

[weak peak]

oh I'm not sure

I'll check later

[spice storm]

@soft violet ur bio is hella poetic 😭

its nice tho

[drowsy rose]

the only reason anyone uses fernet is because its prebundled into cryptography

and its the only high-level symmetric api

[lament cairn]

come an get it

[hearty violet]

I'm making a website so I can consoom degenerate content (anime and manga) locally

for now the repo is closed, but I'm thinking on opening it up (it's not even usable yet lol)
but I'm wondering what's the likelihood of my ass getting sued for it

I'm not pulling any content myself, I don't provide ways for people to pirate stuff either
the only thing I give is a functioning website and backend that pulls content from ur filesystem and tries to find metadata for your convenience

I think I should be ok? emby does the same thing for basically any content, I'm just doing the same but specializing in anime/manga and integrating with anilist/myanimelist

[fringe rain]

lmao

did you know tachiyomi has had a public github repository for years 💀

[hearty violet]

no fucks given

[fringe rain]

by the several companies and authors whos manga/manhwa/manhua is being pirated*

[hearty violet]

they didn't care a few years ago, nowadays they do crack down on pirate websites

but ig not often enough

[fringe rain]

also ani-cli

their "cracking down" is getting the country to ban the site

for example india bans fmovies, 9anime and friends often

aint nobody got time to chase and sue you

and from what you said you aint even pirating

[snow epoch]

beautiful webworms

[hearty violet]

9anime is dead, they moved to aniwave bc they were chased iirc
also the aniwave people are a piracy group from south asia, they're not very concerned about piracy unless they become a big target I feel like

[hearty violet]

yeah, I'm doing what plex, jellyfin and emby do

[fringe rain]

ah yes, renaming yourself - the biggest issue

[fringe rain]

so i dont think you'll get chased 👍

[hearty violet]

they even linked the new website in the old one lmao

[fringe rain]

lol

[hearty violet]

they're safe until the next time the corps get bored and go sue them again

[fringe rain]

renames themselves again

[redacted]

[hearty violet]

nah unredact that rn

[fringe rain]

nuh uh

[quasi blaze]

I must get my work experience to completely outweigh my academic credentials because mine is equivalent to an Associate’s Degree and some companies love BS Degree holders.

[glossy niche]

bachelors or bullshit

[warped sentinel]

yeah, that's why they say BS or equivalent experience

[hexed sierra]

bachelor of shit

[warped sentinel]

and also why a degree like a bsc is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[fringe rain]

bsc over btech?

[warped sentinel]

am not familiar with the Indian education system

[fringe rain]

oh, i thought btech was global

[warped sentinel]

nah

[fringe rain]

btw, what course apart from cs would you consider good for a business related application of programming knowledge

[warped sentinel]

sales/marketing/communication

[fringe rain]

i see mechatronics and automation, information technology, electronics and communication

[fringe rain]

hmm ive been considering commerce

[warped sentinel]

yeah, it's also useful to learn more about empathy and to communicate your ideas

[fringe rain]

i dont think we have courses for that out here, but i agree

[quasi blaze]

If 4 senior software developers with the highest level of expertise got into a room together and they talked about software development, do you think they will mostly agree with each other or disagree?

I want to see industry professionals with the highest level of expertise disagree with one another because that’s how I can learn

[thick osprey]

The highest level of expertise at what?

[quasi blaze]

Software development

Python and Software design patterns mostly

What modules to use

Everything

[thick osprey]

What type of development though? The field is vast. I could randomly pull four devs I work with into a meeting room and get four devs who know nothing of the other's field.

[glossy niche]

one would start talking about how the CIA put frogs in the water to make us all gay while the other cusses him out over over email, the two others sit in the corner, one writing a manifesto about how vending machines should let you change the bootloader and the fourth one looks up google on google

[tardy rain]

I dont think watching super senior devs argue is helpful to a junior dev

[tardy rain]

🤨 frogs in my water?

[young shoal]

skill issue

[tardy rain]

Nuh uh

[young shoal]

yuh huh

[tardy rain]

tbf i cant think of any topics that would be interesting watching boomers argue about

[young shoal]

I think it's interesting to see what is considered in the first place

as a junior you're considering things that are quite parochial compared to more senior

cool to be exposed to more far reaching things

[tardy rain]

Its probably better to sit in on mid level devs with 3-5 yoe talk about things than seniors i think
You're closer to them, it'd be easier to follow and would apply closer to your day to day imho

inb4 its a bell curve

The seniors around me are very hand wavy and im not sure they do it to dumb things down or they really are on the bell curve

[fresh basalt]

You're a bell curve.

[tardy rain]

I need to find me better seniors

Senior-er seniors

[low chasm]

ill be a senior next year

[fresh basalt]

In high school?

[young shoal]

bro is 64

[low chasm]

yeah

[fresh basalt]

Time to join the AARP and collect Social Security.

[young shoal]

you need to be older for social security

[low chasm]

its kind of wild

freshman year doesn't feel like that long ago

[young shoal]

well, not need, but you get more

[fresh basalt]

Depends, yeah.

You need X amount of credits.

[dapper dew]

Time speeds up as the years add up

[young shoal]

or if you're injured or something

[fresh basalt]

If you're disabled you get more.

[civic pasture]

whats uppp

[dapper dew]

I think it's like relative percentages kind of stuff

[civic pasture]

hows it going

https://tenor.com/view/hamburger-day-may-28-international-hamburger-day-happy-hamburger-day-it's-hamburger-day-gif-9298853249126456465

happy hamburger day

[fresh basalt]

@young shoal If you ever need more Social Security... 🔨

[young shoal]

🤨

[fresh basalt]

@dapper dew You mean for regular SS or disability?

[young shoal]

I think they mean for aging

[fresh basalt]

Disability is flat allotment I think.

Also there's SSI and SSDI

People get those confused.

Because it's confusing.

[young shoal]

hopefully if all goes well, social security will not be the primary retirement income

[fresh basalt]

If you're 65+ and disabled then there you go.

Most people don't invest.

[young shoal]

for me, I mean

[fresh basalt]

So no 401k.

Oh of course, thinking of yourself.

[young shoal]

why do I need to think of anyone else 😩🦅

[fresh basalt]

Spoken like a true capitalist.

[young shoal]

but yeah. pensions going away was kind of an L

[fresh basalt]

My mom's friend (and our downstairs neighbor) is 74 and works from home.

life is rough

[young shoal]

also retiring sounds boring

maybe I have been indoctrinated

[fresh basalt]

If you've got stuff to do it's probably not boring.

[young shoal]

I mean I don't want to work like, actual hours, but I'd want to keep coding I think

and it's hard to get the same kind of scale on your own

[fresh basalt]

Just switch to hobby programming.

Join a group.

[young shoal]

we'll see ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fresh basalt]

I mean, if you even get old enough to retire.

That's a long way away right?

[dapper dew]

The time goes faster as you get older

[fresh basalt]

I don't understand your answer to my question.

[young shoal]

presumably

[young shoal]

it was the other topic happening at the same time

[fresh basalt]

Oh. Why do people do that? :P

[young shoal]

:P

[civic pasture]

Omg hi @young shoal

Have you been enjoying my absence?

[spice storm]

supp

[spice storm]

https://tenor.com/view/squeezie-locklear-rizz-singe-monkey-gif-2733495183359346695

[rigid isle]

@pulsar oak

like one of these

[pulsar oak]

Ye I made that

For my api wrapper

[rigid isle]

do you put things like a enum class or a data class in therE?

or just the functions

like i have this and it gets called but idk if its included in a structural chart

[pulsar oak]

https://github.com/darkkpy/blockmango this should help

[rigid isle]

ngl idk how to use github i managed to make this but idk if its right

and i can just do the lines to do the calls

[pulsar oak]

good enough

[rigid isle]

👍

[dapper dew]

Aboo was saying how 4 years went by quickly, I commented that time goes faster as you get older

I then followed that up with the statement that it could be because of relative percentages

[quasi blaze]

I am reflecting right now. 5 years ago, I had no thoughts of being in tech. I had no idea what the future would hold for me at the time; I had no direction.

My financial situation has propelled ever since I went into tech. Went through a lot of frustrations, failed interviews and endless amounts of sending job applications. The struggle was enormous.

[spice storm]

sup

anyways os

so

[pulsar oak]

hi

[spice storm]

if u running

ofc ppl gon stare at u

but so what

[pulsar oak]

no even when i walk

😐😐😐😐

[spice storm]

why r u 7'9 or 3'8?

[pulsar oak]

I'm 5'9

[spice storm]

why dy think ppl stare at u then

im 5'3

[pulsar oak]

cause they do

😭

[spice storm]

u in south asia? 😬

[pulsar oak]

it feels uncomfortable as fuck

[pulsar oak]

yee

[spice storm]

makes sense

LOL

[pulsar oak]

shit is so uncomfortable

that's why I don't go outside

[spice storm]

ik xddd

[pulsar oak]

😭😭😭

[spice storm]

i go out every night for a run

[pulsar oak]

my dad once banged the door because I locked it

like bro let me sleep wtf

[spice storm]

lol

[pulsar oak]

if I go outside

at night

they'll ask 1k questions

[spice storm]

bro gon be on reddit in no time

[pulsar oak]

trash platform

[spice storm]

decent

and its safe here so i could go out for a run at 2am too

its alright

but yeah a higher prob of encountering more idiots

[pulsar oak]

nvm i thought quora

[spice storm]

LOL

[pulsar oak]

tf are these bro

[spice storm]

AYYO WHAT

bro

that website

[spice storm]

got questions

u could not even possibly imagine to ask sm1

or even think ab urself

[pulsar oak]

crazy people

[spice storm]

LOL

what should i do

[pulsar oak]

😭

[spice storm]

LIKE

the hell?!?!

[spice storm]

how could u be so shameless to even post that 😭

[spice storm]

ask yo father if he works a job

and get urself another room

?!

[pulsar oak]

nuh uh

the 17 yo

def watches porn

💯

[spice storm]

LOL

i mean if u look at it in a healthier way

uni students share rooms too

but def not the way these kids be sharing rooms 💀

[pulsar oak]

ye

[low chasm]

it's not that weird to share a room

[spice storm]

true yeah but not the way ppl ask on a website like quora 💀

LOLL

js see the pics bro sent above

HAHAH

[low chasm]

yeah I guess quora can be kind of wild

[spice storm]

i and my brother used to share a room too when we were like 10

we had a bunk bed

it was so much fun

every night we battled on who would sleep on the higher bed

[low chasm]

I share a bed with my sister on like, vacations. My dad used to share a room with 6 of his siblings as a child as well.

[spice storm]

loll

[pulsar oak]

me too

[spice storm]

yeah its cool as a child but not when ur 17 💀

like

let alone sisters

[low chasm]

yeah I get wanting privacy and stuff like that

[spice storm]

even if its ur brother

it feels sooo weird

[low chasm]

but I don't think it's inherently weird

[spice storm]

like get yo head off here bro

[low chasm]

I mean like, they're your siblings

[young shoal]

[spice storm]

damnn i gtg rn brb soon

[pulsar oak]

my brother was 18 and I was 13 we shared once

it isn't weird

he's chill

[low chasm]

like, I share a bed with my sister on vacations, and I've shared rooms with a bunch of my cousins before as well

if anything it just leads to like, fighting

[solemn tulip]

siblings gonna sibling

[frank venture]

delate your brother just kidding

[swift cosmos]

I'd be curious as to a study of this up and coming generation's linguistics vs. past generations. I have no proof or evidence, but I feel like the echo chambers afforded by the Internet probably have an more exaggerated effect on it when they can build private communities where they only interact with people who speak this way, causing it to evolve faster, whereas older generations, while still experiencing some levels of generational language evolution, were probably more tempered by the necessity of interacting with older people more often

[dapper dew]

New slang always pops up

[rain marsh]

nobody speaks like that in real life, from my own experiences

[dapper dew]

But I do think the internet age influences it more now than previously

[spare oriole]

#python-discussion message
wdym, i still speak to dinosaurs everyday, you and brad being examples

[rain marsh]

I definitely agree with the internet exaggerating it a lot

[dapper dew]

It's true, I turned dinosaur years old this month

[acoustic moss]

im forced to say "skill issue" irl regularly

[spare oriole]

(i don't actually know brad's age)

[rain marsh]

(I am talking age ranges from around 16-30)

skill issue + cap would be the only regular ones that I do hear irl, everything else I wouldn't say so

[spare oriole]

how can that be, you're a walking skill issue

[swift cosmos]

Right, I understand that. But I feel like it's much more exaggerated now than it used to be. Maybe all the old people before me felt like that, which is why I'd be curious to see actual evidence

[dapper dew]

Its like a meme going viral, but instead is a terminology

[acoustic moss]

birds of a feather

[spare oriole]

the thing is though, none of the gen Zs i know regularly speak like the troll homelander guy on the internet. im fairly sure he does it on purpose.

even robin, HSP and the other gen z lingo translator keep it to a bare minimun

[swift cosmos]

@sage drum

that ain't a few sentences lmfao
You should learn how to count.

1. "I'd be curious as to a study of this up and coming generation's linguistics vs. past generations."
2. "I have no proof or evidence, but I feel like the echo chambers afforded by the Internet probably have an more exaggerated effect on it when they can build private communities where they only interact with people who speak this way, causing it to evolve faster, whereas older generations, while still experiencing some levels of generational language evolution, were probably more tempered by the necessity of interacting with older people more often"

2 sentences dude. TWO. That's "a few"

[acoustic moss]

the average discord message is probably around <10 words lol

[sage drum]

the second sentence is a whole essay on its own

[spare oriole]

Gorian don't fall for it.

im not sure why he's been allowed to continously troll despite repeated warnings for multiple reasons.

[sage drum]

I dont troll bro

I'm asking genuine questions you're the one attacking me all the time man

[spare oriole]

you've admitted as much in the past.

[sage drum]

maybe I trolled a few times in the past I don't remember but its not all I do

I'm rarely here anymore so I only come when I have a question

[acoustic moss]

let's leave the moderation to the mods, if you have an actual report DM modmail

[swift cosmos]

I don't think any of us are your "bro"

[sage drum]

so older generation didn't have polite phrases 😭

[spare oriole]

yes, and you also have the annoying habit of shitting on people answers #python-discussion message

[swift cosmos]

we have lots of phrases - but "bro" generally implies some sort of personal relationship, compared to something like "dude"

[spare oriole]

Hi bro

how you doing today

[sage drum]

bro is a way to show the other person we're on the same level and we can speak as equals, I guess that ain't a thing in millenians

[swift cosmos]

@spare oriole yeah, but I'd actually consider you some sort of internet acquitance bordering on friend, vs. "random internet troll"

[sage drum]

its not that deep bro

[spare oriole]

If you were speaking as equal you would have the minimum decency or respect to speak to them in plain English

[acoustic moss]

@sage drum please stop addressing people as bro if they've said they're uncomfortable with it

[acoustic moss]

and i'll say this again

[spare oriole]

I speak to my elders differently than I do to my peers of my own age. It’s typically known as respect

[sage drum]

unless its my boss I'm not calling him sir some older people acc won't like it

[swift cosmos]

I never asked anyone to call me "sir" 😛

[sage drum]

see dude I know the game I'm a fkin psychologist

my emotional iq is too much for this world

[dapper dew]

We can all always improve our empathy towards others

[spare oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/samuel-l-jackson-shocked-excuse-me-sam-jackson-what-gif-15938455

[vale raven]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQyzZulKAag

[fresh basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/startrek-captain-kirk-surprise-badass-gif-3938953

William Shatner has great expressions.

[swift cosmos]

I agree - Samuel Jackson is good at playing a badass

[fresh basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-william-shatner-agree-agreed-yes-gif-19733493

[sage drum]

yah man but its hard when you're so ahead of everyone else in that regard

[fresh basalt]

Fun fact: the badass motherfucker wallet from Pulp Fiction was Quentin Tarantino's actual wallet.

[sage drum]

I can read people like a fkin book

[dapper dew]

This comes off as very arrogant, and lacking self awareness for the record

[sage drum]

your psychological analysis of my behaviour is lacking bro you gotta step up your pyschology game

[spare oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/wait-what-what-what-the-what-the-hell-confused-gif-5148050941166749560

[fresh basalt]

In this thread: arguing with literal children

[spare oriole]

Well arguing with old people such as yourself gets boring

[fresh basalt]

Yes, I'd get tired of arguing with someone who was correct.

[spare oriole]

Depends, which kind of correct, pedantically correct or confidently incorrect?

[fresh basalt]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/come_correct

@spare oriole Have you ever taken a vacation?

[spare oriole]

Yes, for the past 6 years

[fresh basalt]

And yet you still need to relax.

[spare oriole]

I just got back to the states a week ago and I’m depressed because of it

[fresh basalt]

Which state? That may be relevant to your depression.

Like if it were Ohio or something.

[spare oriole]

LI, NY

Specifically the weird part of LI

[fresh basalt]

I thought all of it was weird.

Granted I've never been, just know what I've read and seen.

[spare oriole]

Oh there’s some parts that are basically straight out the twilight zone

My highlight of living in LI, was living on the same block as the amityville horror house

[grave cove]

Bro lives in linked in

[spice storm]

Lol

[hearty violet]

LOL

[turbid heron]

is lil bro same as bro ?

[swift cosmos]

That's pretty condescending usually

[turbid heron]

so bro >> lil bro?

[fresh basalt]

Lots of condescension and bravado here lately.

[swift cosmos]

yes

[hearty violet]

bro probably got the boot for being a tactless gen z 😔

[soft violet]

@fathom musk "Hiring pervert managers" Managers of perverts, perverts as managers, or both?

[fathom musk]

Perverts as manager yes

Inside joke btw

I forgot i still have that status on lmao

[soft violet]

I'll endeavour to not tell it outside.

It's dark and wet and probably on the cooler side, so I think we're safe for now on that count.

[fathom musk]

LoL

I can tell u about it

Its no big deal

I asked a friend to become my accountability partner

I think that's what it is called

And for that i made a server and gave her the role "manager intern"

Or smthn

She didn't like it and changed it to sadist manager

[soft violet]

How tragic.

[fathom musk]

And then i changed it to pervert manager cuz that day reddit thought i would be interested in reading about married managers flirting with interns xD

But yeah she quit yesterday (not really) and im looking for new pervert managers

Though she applied for the role yet again and we had to vc for the interview

[small coral]

@sullen pier #python-discussion message can you give an example, like, how is it used?

[sullen pier]

in any situation where you would use "привет"

i will elaborate in an hour or two, i am busy rn

[harsh tundra]

There's no direct translation, zdravstvuj is more like "wish you health", maybe "blessings" would work as equivalent but that's more archaic than modern use...

[wanton delta]

@spiral zephyr heyy im bothering you again about scala:

Which editor "just works" with scala in your experience? I'm using helix day to day and it does kinda work with scala but I'd like to have a fallback option.

[spiral zephyr]

I use vs code with metals. It works but definitely feels a bit sluggish compared to say python or node

[wanton delta]

So it being sluggish was not my editor's problem

Metals kept timing out so i had to extend the timeout duration, which is not bad

[spiral zephyr]

Yeah that's quite typical metals behaviour 🙄

The LSP experience isn't as polished, I feel like you have to babysit it a little. It's a key reason I'm more inclined to use Rust these days

[wanton delta]

rust analyzer is solid

I'm looking at scala as an alternative to rust. It's looking great so far. It can compile to js as well which is awesome

Thanks for the input, i'll try out vscode with metals see if its better even if marginal

[sick shadow]

lil bro = fuck you
bro = friend

[spiral zephyr]

Yeah the compilation to JS is interesting

How far are you in with the "book" on the website?

[wanton delta]

About half way

[spiral zephyr]

When you finish it, do some advent of code imo

[sick shadow]

What are metals in this context?

[spiral zephyr]

And then go for the red book (functional programming in Scala)

The functional programming ecosystem (type level) is particularly good at cross compilation to all platforms

[wanton delta]

Will check it out

[spiral zephyr]

But it's hard to learn yeah

[wanton delta]

I mean if I can make sense of Rust everything else should at least be achievable right

Right

[hearty violet]

rust's "difficulty" is overblown

[spiral zephyr]

I did functional Scala first and found it several orders of magnitude harder than Rust. Rust was a breeze to learn. Maybe they're similar enough that if you know one the other comes easy though. That would mean you'd find it easy.

[hearty violet]

the only thing you need to learn is ownership/lifetimes and smart pointers (mostly easy to use unless you're doing async, async rust is a bitch)

[spiral zephyr]

Async rust was fine as well imo

[wanton delta]

Async rust felt immature so i just havent touched it

[spiral zephyr]

I just went into it after reading a bit of Tokio's docs and it didn't seem particularly strange.

[hearty violet]

u have to deal with the runtime, smart pointers, dynamically sized types, it's just too much

if you already know rust it's ok ish

[spiral zephyr]

Are smart pointers hard?

[hearty violet]

but if you're new to rust you're probably gonna struggle

[hearty violet]

not really

[spiral zephyr]

Like, if you understand lifetimes

Then you know why you need Arc

And why you need to move with a closure etc

[hearty violet]

I never said it was hard, it's just a bitch

u have to know a decent amount of rust to do async right

[wanton delta]

Smart pointers are ok, i dont know much about the internals and i mostly just use box, rc and arc

[hearty violet]

if you go in cold turkey the climb is steeper

[spiral zephyr]

I don't know. I read the book in about a week (I work so I only have time in the evening)

Then I did rustlings in a day or two

[hearty violet]

rust smart pointers use compiler internals so you cannot use implement them in "user space"

[spiral zephyr]

Then did a project which used Tokio and Axum and it was fine

[hearty violet]

well you can

but it's not gonna be as efficient

[hearty violet]

what were ur prev experiences?

[wanton delta]

I think what's gonna be hard for me is doing something in OOP but now make it functional

[spiral zephyr]

You just need to implement the Drop trait

[spiral zephyr]

Python, JS/TS, functional Scala, Prolog, Dart, ... One semester of C++ in uni

[wanton delta]

For now scala just feels like home, coming from Rust

[spiral zephyr]

I mentioned it a few times. If you're able to code in pure FP that means you know how to model problems in a way that doesn't upset the borrow checker

There's some differences

But the leap isn't as large if you're used to modelling problems fully OOP style

[wanton delta]

Looking forward to it
A new paradigm i havent used at all

[spiral zephyr]

It's annoying at first but then it makes sense

As soon as it makes sense it feels exactly like imperative programming (if you use the IO monad)

But with way more control

Hard to explain lol

[wanton delta]

I came from python and never had to think about memory before which I think was the steep climb

[wanton delta]

Ill get there soon enough 😆

[hearty violet]

the C++ and Scala probably helps u out a lot

[wanton delta]

Scala also gave me hope for a strongly typed frontend

[hearty violet]

in rust u think less about memory than in C or C++ tbh

I use C so often that using Rust I feel like I'm on a garbage collected language lmao

[wanton delta]

That's true, but i haven't used C suites

[spiral zephyr]

Yeah Rust felt very GC'd

[wanton delta]

Lmao makes sense

[spiral zephyr]

Maybe the best thing about the book I recommend is that it teaches you relevant design patterns

The OOP ones are bloated

I know them so I can talk about them, but they're still bloat, idk how to put it into words

[hearty violet]

rust takes care of most of it
the only thing rust doesn't take care of is pointers, memory layout, overflows (still makes it explicit), stuff like that

so ig if you're coming from python and you suddenly have to think about memory instead of the abstract box python puts u in, it feels low level?

[wanton delta]

It does
It's power i have over my programs that i have never had before

[spiral zephyr]

Like, if you understand the basics about monoids and folding it opens doors to writing algorithms in a way that is easily parallelizeable

[wanton delta]

I read about Bend, the new programming language and it mentioned folding as opposed to for loops

[hearty violet]

yeah, I'm addicted to compiled systems languages lmao
I try to avoid managed languages like the plague unless it makes sense to just not care at all

[spiral zephyr]

Yeah the issue with bend was that if you don't take care about things (e.g., writing data structures such that they form a monoid) it won't parallelize anything

[wanton delta]

So it forces you

[spiral zephyr]

It doesn't, it'll just run sequentially

[hearty violet]

I think I got swollen by the handmade community even tho I've never hung on their communities

I just ended up absorbing a lot of their mentality

[sick shadow]

handmade community?

[wanton delta]

So the ad for that language is a little misleading

[spiral zephyr]

Also other cool things you'll probably learn is how apps are written from an architecture pov

And it's stuff you can directly use in FastAPI and so on

Tbh, Rust does the same with error enums

And ?

[wanton delta]

I love the practicality

[spiral zephyr]

Me too. It avoids needing you to think in terms of monads. In general, Rust invents a lot of extra syntax so users don't need to think in terms of monads (?, async, await) are examples.

I think this is the better way though! It's more practical and easier to grasp than the monad abstraction

[wanton delta]

Is FP considered harder than OOP? Or was it a matter of who got popular first + widely adapted

I hardly heard of FP locally

[spiral zephyr]

Not harder, it's just different

So it's like learning to code again

If it's what you learnt first then it wouldn't have been an issue

[wanton delta]

Its sounding like a love story

I'd like to see how much better i can grasp new concepts after a year of self learning + course training over the last 2 months

[hearty violet]

yeah, it's a community of low level programmers that basically hate OOP, love data oriented programming

and care a lot about performance and low level details. a lot of them are diehard C lovers

I'm not that fanatic about C, but I enjoy C and compiled languages that care about being decently efficient

[wanton delta]

Lmfao they also probably hates frontend

I know i do, a bit

[sullen pier]

nope, there is no "wish you health" meaning in "zdravstvuj"
here you can see two meanings: https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/здравствуй
first of them is greeting, like "hello", but it is more formal than "hi"/"привет"
second of them is a verb "be healthy", it is used pretty rarely

also relevant: https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/здравствуйте

so "blessings" or "wish you health" are not good options, they are pretty weird greetings
something like "hello" fits better

[hearty violet]

they do
but tbh only javascript devs like the web
the web is way too messy and permissive

it probably made sense to let the web "self correct" when u're just exchanging almost plain html back in the day, but that's just ridiculous nowadays

I kinda hate CSS and JS too (tho I think "modern" JS is bearable if u ignore the fact that u need insane tooling)

[wanton delta]

I still don't understand js. There's the es5 es6 node, what are these?

[hearty violet]

EcmaScript standards

aka Javascript versions

there's no reason to use pre es6 nowadays

[wanton delta]

Is it comparable to python 2 and 3 as versions?

[harsh tundra]

There is. It literally comes as one form of здравствовать, meaning to be well/to prosper.
да здра́вствует коро́ль - long live the king
здравие - health
So "blessings" or "wish you well/health" are literally how it came to be.
Even if current meaning only stayed as a greeting, we can clearly see the word evolution

[wanton delta]

I know node just brings js off of the browser

[sullen pier]

it is not used in this meaning in everyday life
it is just a greeting, without anything else

[solemn tulip]

containment breach

[harsh tundra]

I didn't say it's used like that, I said it comes from that, so translation would be also archaic English "blessings!"

[wanton delta]

Whose idea was it

[hearty violet]

kinda? python 2 to 3 broke compatibility, javascript doesn't do that

[wanton delta]

I see

That made me question:
Do people really run js scripts on the browser pre-node? How do you catch bugs?

[harsh tundra]

Awww

[wanton delta]

Sounds like a hellscape

[hearty violet]

wym?

[harsh tundra]

Btw fun etymology, do other Slavic languages also have word for tipping mean "for beer"?
Polish tip is "napiwek" 😄

[wanton delta]

When I want to use python to make something, i just fire up my editor and start building. With js on the browser how'd you do basic things like reading a file etc

[hearty violet]

why would u "read a file" from javascript to begin with?

JavaScript is a language that was made to add interactivity to a web page

nodejs and all the newer runtimes add new functions to be able to do those things outside the browser, but in the browser you're not supposed to do that

the only way u "read a file" is the user selecting a file from the file system for the browser to read and then for JavaScript to see it

[wanton delta]

So js was never meant to leak out of the browser?

[hearty violet]

no

[wanton delta]

So the file operations i see on node never existed on vanilla JS?

[hearty violet]

I'd go as far as say that JS outside the browser was and is a mistake

[hearty violet]

they don't exist on browsers
those operations are just functions added to javascript by node

[wanton delta]

Man

[hearty violet]

if u go look at bun and deno, each of them have different file functions

[wanton delta]

No wonder it was hard for me to understand what js was

Starting with python, i sort of take for granted that all programming language is just capable of interacting with filesystem, make http requests, just IO stuff

[wanton delta]

I thought they will be standardized

Aren't they building for the programming language

[hearty violet]

javascript runs inside a browser tab with an event loop
so u can't do stuff that u've been sandboxed so u cannot do them

[wanton delta]

What a sad life of js

Made for the browser
Used on the server

[hearty violet]

it works ig?

the biggest issues for javascript for me are weak typing and the obscenely complicated tooling people use

NPM is a security nightmare, u pull 1 library that library pulls in 834435 libraries
if u want to use more than 1 file u either have to include every file manually or you have to use a bundler that's super annoying to use and does name mangling, minification bla bla bla
then u either have to write websites manually which is very tedious and hard to refactor or you have to choose one of the frameworks out there which are also complicated

my sweet spot for javascript has been svelte, it's just a compiler
it still uses vite as a bundler but I don't have to care about anything other than writing (mostly) vanilla html, css and javascript

[wanton delta]

I can understand the probelms, and coming from Rust i just cant with the tooling sometimes. There's also too many choices.

The meme of new frameworks every friday

[hearty violet]

what tooling are u talking about? python's?

[wanton delta]

Javascript

[hearty violet]

oh

well I don't like python tooling either 💀

[wanton delta]

I mean it can be worse

[hearty violet]

u should try C tooling sometime 💀

[wanton delta]

Worse meaning js 😄

[hearty violet]

C's is better worse

[wanton delta]

I remember learning C at one time and wanted to use gmp library

Idfk how to add a library

To this day

[hearty violet]

u look for the library on ur distro's package manager
if you're on windows I think u have to compile a dll on ur own? no idea I don't do windows

[wanton delta]

What
I install with apt?

[hearty violet]

and after you have the library you want u have to include the library's header and then link to it

gcc main.c -lmylib

[hearty violet]

yeah

[wanton delta]

What i the world

I thought its like python, there's a package manager or something

Technically yes there is a package manager, just not one i expect

[hearty violet]

if you wanted to use SDL2 on your project you'd basically do this

$ sudo apt install sdl2

#include <SDL/SDL2.h>

int main(void) {
  /* your code here */
  return 0;
}

$ gcc main.c -lSDL2

[wanton delta]

So my systemwide package manager gets pollute with C library

But i guess other apps depend on it too

Thats low level

[hearty violet]

the whole system depends on dynamic libraries (ignoring the ones you're adding)
you can also statically link

also usually u use some build system or make to compile so its even more annoying :)

[hearty violet]

L idea, next

good luck with ur fad, broski

GL? graphics library?

better have this attitude than being a grifter trying to profit off of fads tbh

respect is earned
politeness being a default is fair
but either way, I have no respect for hype beasts and streamers, therefore I don't respect u
better now?

I can be polite and still have no respect for u
like I said, respect is earned, politeness is a given

I'm not gonna go out of my way to be a big asshole to u, but I don't respect u or what u do

[fresh basalt]

Then keep it to yourself.

#code-of-conduct message

We have a code of conduct.

I recommend you read that.

[spiral zephyr]

I see what you mean but I don't think Maud'dib is a grifter, he actually did his due diligence to learn the unsexy parts of ML

Because you're into ML does not directly mean you're following the hype, it's the case for many but not him imo

[hearty violet]

• Be kind and courteous to others
I didn't insult them yet, besides maybe calling him a grifter (my bad lol)

• Using welcoming and inclusive language
doesn't apply

• Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
Haven't insulted them

• Collaborating with other community members
doesn't apply

• Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
doesn't apply

• Focusing on what is best for the community
doesn't apply

• Showing empathy towards other community members
doesn't apply

[fresh basalt]

I'm not going to argue about it man. You're being super negative and bringing the channel down. Just stop it.

If you don't agree with the dude then just don't engage.

If they bother you that much block them.

[hearty violet]

I don't know them personally, so I cannot comment
but that title is clickbaity and I HATE clickbaits

I actually like ML and AI or whatever, but what new AI fad from 2020+ have left a very bad taste on my mouth and I'm for sure biased against anyone that mentions anything that just mentions AI for no reason than cause it generates clicks and investment money

[hearty violet]

yes I know

[fresh basalt]

What is best for the community always applies.

And being respectful doesn't just necessarily mean not insulting somebody.

[spiral zephyr]

Fwiw I'm in machine learning too but it takes very little effort to separate the grifters from the real people

[hearty violet]

if you actually read
the one thing I said was "L idea, next" and "good luck broski"
it could've ended there if he did not said "good luck with ur attitude"
either way I don't want beef lol

[fresh basalt]

If you'd like you can consult a moderator but I think they'd agree with me on that.

You said "good luck with your fad"

[hearty violet]

should be changed to being polite
respect is earned, politeness is given

[spiral zephyr]

Speaking of ML, @pulsar heart I have a start-up/ OS idea, want to verify? 👀

[fresh basalt]

For someone who doesn't want beef you're sure swinging yours around a lot.

[hearty violet]

true

[spiral zephyr]

It's the inference server I was talking about before

[hearty violet]

AI toaster so we know exactly when to stop toasting bread

[spiral zephyr]

It dawned on me it's actually a legit thing to run as a managed service (typo fixed thanks to raph)

[hearty violet]

ok buddy

[spiral zephyr]

Provision the hardware for them, give a nice GUI to monitor stuff

[hearty violet]

dawned***

not trying to beef, genuinely trying to help u with the word lol

[spiral zephyr]

nah you're good

It's a nice idea to make because at the end of the day, little loss can be made. Only my time. Cloud wise I just provision what people use and bill them

I'd offer it on AWS

yes

Like on AWS, maybe even my own thing and then I provision hardware

maybe even some handy stuff like configuring quantisation from the GUI

Should be as simple as train model, to_inference_server(api_key)

If you use the managed service

yeah, that's the thing. The project is actually runnable with lambda + S3

Or maybe EC2 that runs, or k8s

Too many options, so if you abstract it from the user, it's fair they pay (or they take the FOSS version and deploy it)

Anyway, I'm gonna accelerate development on it soon ™️

that's enough feedback already tbh 👀

[quasi blaze]

As a software developer (in my personal experience) the variability of the workload is much wider. I have extremely tough days and easygoing days.

Working in a warehouse, the workload is consistent but the variability of the workload is far narrower.

[tardy rain]

I had a super slow sprint this sprint, it was nice

Last sprint was death

We had a deadline coming up and it was crunch time

I do wish it was more consistent

Dont like the rollercoaster workload, it means we dont plan sprints properly

[glossy niche]

on slow weeks I like to spend my time setting up random tooling I'll never use

gmhmhmhmhmmmmmmhmhmmmm opensewrch dashboards........

[thick osprey]

I just find more to do. Never a lack of solutions needed somewhere.

[tardy rain]

On slow weeks i like to launch steam

[vale raven]

You obviously haven’t worked in my warehouse

Twice a year we have to handle about as much as we handle in the entire rest of the year in one month

Every aisle walkway filled with pallets stacked two high because the racks are already full

Then by the end of the month it’s all gone

And…. We’re staring at a bunch of empty space

Wondering what we can have all these people do next

[young shoal]

so true

[tardy rain]

Why do more when you can do less

[young shoal]

promotion

[thick osprey]

Because I can.

[tardy rain]

🤷‍♀️

[turbid heron]

why is there soo much JS everywhere 😭

[thick osprey]

Because you are browsing JS repos?

[quasi blaze]

How does one argue effectively with a narcissist?

And one that uses gaslighting techniques to win the argument

[vale raven]

If you figure it out let me know
I've been at my job for over five years, and I still haven't made any headway into getting him to listen to me

[thick osprey]

Easy answer for both. Don't argue.

[tardy rain]

Be better at narcissism

[low chasm]

at some point I'd probably resort to ad hominem depending on the person or situation

watch them seethe

[strange blade]

or they could gaslight you into thinking that they are seething

[fresh basalt]

It's probably best to go gray rock when dealing with a narcissist.

[jaunty wraith]

is that a new subgenre of rock music?

[fathom musk]

pimp my vim

[rare sapphire]

💀

[solemn tulip]

rock for old people

[quasi blaze]

Logical fallacy of the day: Ad Populum

An ad populum fallacy tries to persuade others by claiming that something is true or right because a lot of people think so

Examples:

 “The majority of our countrymen think we should have military operations overseas; therefore, it's the right thing to do.”

You’re at a bookstore browsing for books with a friend. Although you are an avid sci-fi reader, your friend picks up a memoir and tells you that you should read the book because it’s a bestseller.

These are logical fallacies because you are justifying your position based on the majority of the people also justifying that position.

[young shoal]

haven't you heard of democracy

majority rules 😌

[tardy rain]

Unbased

[tardy rain]

Unwatchable video

I know talking fast isnt a sign of intelligence but talking slowly like that sure makes you look dumb af

[fringe rain]

he's just high

there we go

[tardy rain]

What did he mean by this

Is this wise

Im too dumb to understand

[fringe rain]

im using him as ajoke

but it might be wise

[quasi blaze]

I hope everyone is learning how to be a better debater when I inform you guys on informal fallacies

[glossy niche]

how often do you actually use these?

[thick osprey]

I'm sure something is being learned. Teaching, however, usually takes far more effort than dropping the occasional take or copied paragraph into a chat.

[tardy rain]

It'd be nice if keezy interacted with the actually interesting topics

He said something about having variability in work yesterday and then dipped

Other people gave their thoughts

[glossy niche]

i must destroy my ex wife with facts and logic

[tardy rain]

Based (in facts and logic)

[fringe rain]

sunken cost fallacy is so real

not in this particular situation

||but like pycharm users ||

[young shoal]

simply dropping a short snippet isn't going to teach anyone anything

could you learn python by just reading a paragraph a day?

[spice helm]

yes

[vocal oyster]

I'm definitely learning how one can be obnoxious

[glossy niche]

duo lingo mentality lol

there are a lot of apps on mobile that do stuff like this

you pay a subscription so that you can be sent an excercise a day

[quasi blaze]

Did you learn something from me posting logical fallacies?

[tardy rain]

I've heard of those ones before

[quasi blaze]

Do you guys think that delivery matters in communication? For example, an argument I would hear is that “2+2=4. It doesn’t matter how I say it, it doesn’t change the fact that 2+2=4.” One would criticize the tonality and delivery of their opponent when they are having a debate and they would be dismissive of that criticism because what they are saying is factual. How can I combat this tactic in a debate? This is what I struggle with.

[low chasm]

yeah it matters

my school's debate team was doing a mock debate this one time, and our captain was taking part. She made the most bullshit argument, but everyone ended up voting for her anyways because of how she presented it.

[quasi blaze]

How can I combat that tactic in debates?

[low chasm]

in what context? just, if you're arguing with someone?

just be right, I guess. Have better points

at least for us, a lot of debating was attempting to get the judge on your side, and a lot of that depends on your presentation and how confident you were

[quasi blaze]

“It doesn’t matter how I am saying it because what I am saying is factual.”

[tardy rain]

Debates arent centered around discussing facts but conclusions/hypothesis drawn from them

You're not arguing 2+2 is 4

[low chasm]

I think it's a given that if you're more confident/persuading in the manner in which you're saying something, people are more inclined to believe you

[tardy rain]

Ideally everyone should agree on a set of facts

[low chasm]

it's not about disproving facts, but being a better speaker does make your point seem more convincing

[tardy rain]

Its also easier if you say "fun fact" beforehand

Maybe you focus too hard on pointing out facts than addressing arguments

[quasi blaze]

That was just an example. You can substitute that with anything else like “You need to go to gym because are 6 ft 1 and 290 pounds. Therefore, you are obese!”

[tardy rain]

Thats not a fact

[quasi blaze]

“It doesn’t matter how I say it because what I am saying is facts!”

[tardy rain]

Being obese might be true, going to the gym because they're obese is not a fact

🤷‍♀️ you're gonna need a better example