ot1-perplexing-regexing

[glacial torrent]

😦 maaaaan i really want to play WoW again but alas i am now an old man who can't spend that much time on a game

[ornate pasture]

I actually booted up WoW for the first time in january this year

I went lvl 70 something but then quit, I was mostly playing solo

it's also way harder to connect and make friends than before in MMOs, removing a whole dimension of the game

[foggy jungle]

I've had the misfortune privilege of playing WoW my entire life. People look back on Vanilla and wonder why classic doesn't feel the same, but the reality is we're A.) older and B.) significantly more advanced in our abilities to develop tools for analysis and gamifying the game itself.

[glacial torrent]

it's a privilege, hands down, all day every day

but yes, 100% agreed on B

[jaunty wraith]

[tardy rain]

But analysing and gamifying the game itself were part of the fun

Maybe not for classic but definitely for retail

[glacial torrent]

yeah i felt this as well!

[ornate pasture]

Not sure this is still true today, but if you like a spreadsheet game, have a look at Eve Online

[tardy rain]

Nowadays i dont have the energy or time

[glacial torrent]

for sure - even in the WoTLK days, i enjoy running sim myself and figuring out what to do myself

[tardy rain]

Or i probably would have stuck with WoW

[young shoal]

boomers

[glacial torrent]

that might be a little too spreadsheet-y 😂
though i have thought about applying financial modelling to the market in game before... iirc EVE money could be translated to real world $$?

[tardy rain]

mfw i peaked in 7.3

[foggy jungle]

I agree, but I understand how that can be abrasive for a lot of people.

[tardy rain]

Casuals need not apply

[foggy jungle]

Elitism in WoW is... incredibly cringe lol

I've been flamed by people progressing Heroic while bouncing around with a Famed Slayer title above my head.
There's a massive chasm of "has an ego but definitely has no reason to" around WR 150-500.

[ornate pasture]

yep totally. There is a $ equivalent, at any time, to in-game currency. That's what makes Eve unique. You are really, really sweating when you are fielding a 100$ ship for the first time

[tardy rain]

I never raided seriously so idk about that but you dont need to sim and optimise gearsets to play the damn game and certainly not run splits for gear
But somehow casuals bitched enough about it for blizzard to make master loot changes

Live and let live or something like that

[glacial torrent]

that's fascinating, might try my hand at it some day..

[glacial torrent]

my biggest gripe is they reworked the bloody talent system 😒

[foggy jungle]

Master Loot was... the original system Unless you're saying moving away from that was a bad move.

[foggy jungle]

They've reworked the talent system several times. It's back to a similar style of ye olde' wow

[tardy rain]

It was removed

[glacial torrent]

yeah i noticed that, which is why i am incredibly sad not being able to play it properly now

[tardy rain]

And yes its a bad thing, a guild should be the only authority on how gear is distributed

[foggy jungle]

N-no, master loot exists again.

[tardy rain]

In its original form? When did that happen

Or even close to it i guess

[foggy jungle]

Dragonflight.

[tardy rain]

It was missing for 2 expansions then

[foggy jungle]

Need/Greed/Pass exists again, and item level locking is no longer existent.

I don't recall if it's explicitly defined as master looter, I never really cared-- we've always used RCLootCouncil

[jaunty wraith]

[tardy rain]

That depends on master loot

No master loot no rclc

Anyway people were complaining about the practices of top 50 world guilds

[foggy jungle]

We used RCLC before master loot was reintroduced. Item level locking in specific slots only really affects that person, not the gambit of other individuals that could use that item if it wasn't an ilvl upgrade.

[tardy rain]

The 1% of 1%

[foggy jungle]

IE: Your bis could drop but if you can trade it, it went up to the loot council to delegate.

(That's not a complaint, it's just how it worked.)

[tardy rain]

Are you playing now in DF?

[foggy jungle]

I played the first tier, but my guild was... not excellent. I came from a (now WR 29) guild, and joined a WR... high guild.

[tardy rain]

Did you play any m+? I dont really care about raiding tbh

Not as fun

Idk, i tanked and it was boring

[foggy jungle]

Only out of necessity. I'm a tank, M+ is brutal.

[tardy rain]

M+ as tank is the most excitement you fan get out of a game i think

Shits bonkers

[frozen coral]

legion blood dk M+ was great

[tardy rain]

Lmao yesssss

[foggy jungle]

M+ tanking at sufficiently high key level is one of the most difficult roles in any MMORPG.

I tend to assume people who enjoy M+ tanking aren't tanking 30's tbh. There's a point where it's no longer fun.

[tardy rain]

I got up to top 50 world as a bdk back then

But the difference between me and top 10 were like 2k rating 💀

[frozen coral]

yea I was chilling more around 20-25

spiking at 5M hps was great

[foggy jungle]

Everyone raves about BDK but I don't... get it.
I'm a BrM enjoyer. I'll play other tanks if I have to for progression or whatever the meta is, but BDK is definitely my least favorite.

[tardy rain]

FOTM is great idk why people are so pressed about it

I played as bdk in legion and prot war in bfa

[frozen coral]

bdk and vdh in legion

[tardy rain]

I've played basically all roles in 5man content with just 2 specs

[frozen coral]

played a bit of prot war but only got to ~15s

[tardy rain]

If tanking is still this way in dragonflight i wouldnt mind giving it a spin again

[stark prawn]

I've never progressed past the early game mobs.
At a lan party around 11-12 years old.
Everyone makes a free trial account and fights boars togheter.

[foggy jungle]

Dragonflight is 'okay' for tanking imo.

[stark prawn]

Great times

[foggy jungle]

Pumping on War was a good time in season 1.

Looks like Paladins are FOTM in S2.

[tardy rain]

Do they still have avengers shield

Only reason to play pally imho

Chucking shields all over the place

[glacial torrent]

how come? what's so annoying about BDK? i loved playing it in shadowlands

[foggy jungle]

Divine Toll even.

[foggy jungle]

Not sure, I just don't vibe with BDK. They're very... slow.

[glacial torrent]

oh as in mobility? yes, we are often ridiculed as being on wheelchairs..

[frozen coral]

just find a good priest to throw feathers at you

[foggy jungle]

Warrior/BrM/VDH were kinda' my vibe explicitly because they were incredibly mobile.

[jovial oriole]

Bruh i lost 2.5 kgs in a week while im sick

[tardy rain]

Its probably mostly fluids

Drink up

[jovial oriole]

Ok

[frosty burrow]

Hi @foggy jungle you were having a conversation the other day about the security of docker containers. I'm not sure if i can ask some questions in relation to that?

[tardy rain]

<@&831776746206265384> spam and weird link

[foggy jungle]

Depends on the question. I am not a docker wizard, I just have a keen idea of how virtualization works

[frosty burrow]

What i meant to ask is, if there's no shell package in the container image. Isn't that secure enough. The only exploit would be controlling the container from outside and not from within

[foggy jungle]

I'm not sure I'm following on the conclusion drawn here-- Docker failing to authorize access to a resource (or include the layers/structure to do so) doesn't mean it doesn't have the ability to evaluate shellcode. You cannot just... run a JDK for instance. That exists in instructions (at some point) that can still be exploited for a number of purposes. Intrinsically, the base level of functionality that allows Docker to function in the first place is the vector that's exploited.

[frosty burrow]

meaning the docker's daemon/api that interpretes its commands?

[foggy jungle]

Mmm, I'd have to do some research on exploiting dockerd for breakouts-- there's some writeups on it, but none I'm acutely versed in enough to educate reasonably on the matter.

It's worth noting that I'm referring theoretically as well-- virtualization breakouts tend to yield fairly large bug bounties, and tend to generate massive CVE's when they're discovered. The existence of them in the past doesn't mean they exist now, but I don't really recall the conversation that predicated this, I don't think I asserted that active docker exploits exist or that they're vehemently insecure, just that Docker based virtualization alone is insufficient, especially for the task I believe I was discussing.

[frosty burrow]

i think you were saying specifically about docker being secure based on the hardening done by the user or basically you air-gapping your system or so

[foggy jungle]

That sounds like something I'd stand by. Docker instances that are not crafted with security in mind still pose a security risk. My personal system is quite literally explicitly for the purpose of executing arbitrary, known malicious code.
Doing some more poking around, Metasploit comes packaged with payloads for dockerd exploits, so... I would conclude based on that-- that dockerd itself presents an attack vector if the container is improperly configured.

[frosty burrow]

the reason i asked that question is. Its possible to create a docker image with a multi-stage build and only pass the needed binary's to run one's application in the container without a shell access possibility in that container. Meaning its not possible to interact with the container. So controlling the container would be impossible however the attack vector would be listening on the port that container connects to and i'm guessing data can only be sniffed but not specifically exploit the container

[frosty burrow]

or do you think after taking such steps its still possible to exploit such containers

[foggy jungle]

Before I on this for a little bit, the answer to question two will be 'yes' for... any question, ever, always. Exploits always exist, we just haven't... found them yet. If you ask if something is exploitable, the answer will always be "yes".

Also it's not lost on me that I'm essentially think-tanking exploit development in ot1, so I'm patiently waiting for someone to come in and bonk me.

I'm going to instinctively say that while you might have a restricted environment by nature of the way those binaries are layered, it doesn't prevent you from passing off exploits to other functions. An example of this might be... Using some Python bytecode injection to manipulate what the base level interpreter is doing, (https://github.com/call-042PE/PyInjector) and using that to exploit some sort of "return to libc"-like (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return-to-libc_attack) exploit within CPython (https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2016-5636/), subsequently giving you access to arbitrary EIP control and shellcode injection. This would be an example of a user interacting with an environment that could be restricted, but dipping well below multiple levels of programming to access kernel level functions through something that might otherwise not have that access.

[frosty burrow]

hmm...i think i get what you mean. Exploiting the binary itself

Didn't actually think of that. But in situations where there's data sanitizations would that still occur

[foggy jungle]

It depends, that's why we harp so heavily on things like undefined behavior, memory safety, and error handling.

[frosty burrow]

undefined behavior in what way?

[foggy jungle]

Avoiding it, specifically. Where there exists errors or undefined behavior, there exists the opportunity to exploit that behavior in a manner that's unintended by the codebase.

[grave cove]

Use Rust 👍

No UB

Unless unsafe {}

[frosty burrow]

okay, got what you mean. And then talking about memory safety. How does one truly protect against that. As a web dev, the only option i can think of is only limiting the amount of file size being uploaded, that is if the backend if being run on a docker container

[frosty burrow]

doesn't python have memory safety

[grave cove]

Yes

[young shoal]

only sometimes

[frosty burrow]

how does one enforce memory safety in python? I think its actually built into the interpreter if i'm not wrong

[foggy jungle]

[frosty burrow]

in what scenerios doesn't it hae?

[foggy jungle]

Python has memory safety, the underlying CPython impls have exhibited stack-overflow based behaviors in the past that generated astronomically high CVSS scores. (See CVE-2016-5636)

[frosty burrow]

haven't those being patched

[foggy jungle]

Sure but I'm sure they weren't intended to exist in the first place.

[young shoal]

checking everything. you don't have a chance of buffer overflows because every access is checked to see if it's valid beforehand, for example

[young shoal]

unsafe

[frosty burrow]

I guess what you mean based on the memory safety and using Rust. But I think the only edge rust has is it being a statically typed language. If it were dynamically typed. It wouldn't exhibit those capabilities. Moreover, those that mean Rust binaries can't be exploited

[frosty burrow]

🤣

[frosty burrow]

sure

[foggy jungle]

https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-19029/product_id-48677/year-2021/opov-1/Rust-lang-Rust.html

[young shoal]

the safety could also be enforced at runtime. it would just be very slow

[frosty burrow]

In terms of validating files from a backend perspective. I really think a dedicated minded attacker would pass through validation checks. Because apart from checking the file extensions for file uploads. The only other way have found to be able to verify if a file extension is of the needed type is if its baseencoded and the first type for that file is checked. Apart from that, can't a malicious shell be hidden in such files

[frosty burrow]

not much but probably cause you're checking only for 2021

[foggy jungle]

Yeah I just picked an arbitrary year for overflows.

It's a young language, there will be hundreds more.

[young shoal]

huh?

that is not related to memory safety

[frosty burrow]

there's overflows there. Even with all the type safety and kernel panics in rust. Kind of just peeped your server name from saying this

[foggy jungle]

oh shit the mods are here, run.

[low chasm]

cower 🔨

[frosty burrow]

maybe i'm missing the context of what memory safety means. I do know have read about buffer overflows which i think are related to memory exploits. But only on a conceptual level not on a concrete level

[violet mural]

how to I know if a system is in the best setting to perform my tasks

whatever it is, it's fucking rocking

[short skiff]

I think this solar system is pretty good

[rough sapphire]

I am having trouble entering the BIOS settings. A few days ago it was fine when I had my old motherboard. After I changed my motherboard, I am not sure if I have ever accessed the BIOS or no, but today when I tried to access it I was unable to. When I am booting the computer, I don't see an option like "Press F2 to enter BIOS settings". I have checked a few websites but nothing helped. Right now I need to enable the VT-X through BIOS. If it's not possible for me to access BIOS now, then how can I enable VT-X without accessing the BIOS?

[primal herald]

have you tried spamming f2/del/f1 when it's booting anyway?

[rough sapphire]

yeah i did

[primal herald]

have you tried using windows to boot into bios?

[rough sapphire]

how to do that?

[primal herald]

Search "change advanced startup options" in the taskbar, click "restart now", then "troubleshoot" > "advanced options" > "UEFI firmware settings" > "restart"

[ionic moth]

eyo people how am I supposed to remove the battery connector from the mobo on an acer? mf won't come off no matter how hard i pull

looking like this

[tranquil orchid]

Hard to tell from this angle, but looks vaguely similar to like a JST-GH connector, are you sure there isn't a little tab you should be holding down while pulling?

[ionic moth]

uh not really sure bout anything

what angle should i make a photo of

[tranquil orchid]

Doesn't matter really, but if it's a locking connector there will be something on the connector itself you'll probably have to push down while pulling

[ionic moth]

doesn't look like so

there's that red thingy wrapped around but it's just red tape i believe

on Google people are just pulling it out

maybe I'm too weak

like I can pull it out a tiny bit then it stops

[uneven pine]

There's probably a tab to push or pull on it

There almost always is

I had to deal with this yesterday, a single use metal crimp ring holding a plastic grip on... For no real reason

Thing was thick as hell and gave me a for trying to pry off

[ionic moth]

I'm still struggling, I checked again and I believe there's nothing like that

the only thing I could see is that in corrispondence (I'm not sure this is a valid english word) to the 2 small holes the connector is a bit higher

[uneven pine]

Correspondence

[ionic moth]

thankz

[uneven pine]

Unfortunately without being hands on I can't do much

[ionic moth]

eh ig I'll ask some repair shop

thanks tho

[uneven pine]

And I gotta head to work

[ionic moth]

ty again for the time then

[ionic moth]

turns out I really was too weak

I just needed to pull out harder

[grave cove]

🤨

[ionic moth]

shh

[grave cove]

oh i'm missing context

[ionic moth]

yep

[uneven pine]

That was my issue too lol

I broke a screwdriver though

[ionic moth]

I broke my nails

[uneven pine]

I got the cheap plastic garbage replaced in the end

Just cheap metal garbage now ;)

[ionic moth]

eheh nice

time to cmos reset fr this time

[uneven pine]

Modern cars make everything hard

But the oem knob was getting the sticky plastic breakdown from spending so much time in the sun

[tranquil iron]

is cheap metal better than cheap polymers? or vice versa?

[foggy jungle]

Weighted shift knobs are very common. The metal feels a lot better than a light plastic shift knob.
The drawback tends to be that if you live in a very sunny area, it can be... difficult to hop in the car and drive sometimes.

[ionic moth]

cmos reset worked, now I have a functional boot order again

[tulip falcon]

Noice

[rough sapphire]

Guys where is the off topic channel?

[tranquil iron]

here

[lament cairn]

down the hall and to the left

[tranquil iron]

there's a hall?

[uneven pine]

We'll see with time. The car is 3 years old and I needed to replace the knob that was plastic. We'll see how the cheap metal goes

[tranquil iron]

have fun with your knob!

[analog jay]

what an odd topic

[short skiff]

I'm so confused who is talking about cars and who is resetting their BIOS

[ionic moth]

I was resetting the bios

[lament cairn]

I'm resetting the car

[foggy jungle]

I'm resetting the car's bios.

ECU my beloved, meet my hammer.

[frozen coral]

I'm not sure a hammer is the recommended tool for that

[foggy jungle]

You might be right. Plastic explosives are much more effective.

[jaunty wraith]

why do you have access to plastic explosives?

[frozen coral]

Do you not?

[young shoal]

fertilizer

[jaunty wraith]

⏸️

[foggy jungle]

Okay Kaczynski relax.

[foggy jungle]

If I get crushed by a flying toilet I'm haunting you.

[frozen coral]

Yea, I'd like to order a business class toilet to float 1cm above this public fountain so that I can poop, thanks

[stark prawn]

I love that it's called a Shattle.

[frozen coral]

Great name

[foggy jungle]

Can it take off while I'm poopin'?

The last thing I want is to be abducted and relocated when I'm using a public toilet.

[stark prawn]

Why not?

[foggy jungle]

"Concerning sounds detected. Relocating you to the nearest hospital. Please fasten seatbelt."

[jaunty wraith]

you can already poop while flying
this just allows you to have a view as well

[ionic moth]

why's it transparent tho

[foggy jungle]

that's how all public toilets are in this country

surprised you haven't heard of that.

It's a social bonding experience.

[low chasm]

shitting is a public spectator sport

[grave cove]

competitive shitting

[reef goblet]

Thats a thing

[ionic bane]

Impedance is resistance in an AC circuit and reactance is capacitance in an AC circuit, right? I'm a bit confused on their definitions and i would like a short clear definition for them

[vale hull]

That was a Regular Show episode

[acoustic moss]

impedance is """kind of""" the equivalent resistance which takes into account the resistance, capacitance and inductance

reactance isnt really capacitance, a capacitance and an inductance both have a certain reactance which tells you how they contribute to the impedance

Z is a complex number whose real part is the resistance and imaginary part is capacitive reactance + inductive reactance, Z = R + j(wL - 1/wC)

[scarlet wind]

hsp god

[violet mural]

what is C?

[tranquil orchid]

Capacitance

[violet mural]

L is inductance?

[tranquil orchid]

Mhm

[ionic bane]

I see, thank you so much!

[thick ore]

this has got to be the most useless function i've ever seen

[young shoal]

it's called abstraction 🥺

[round rose]

would be understandable as a method

unless CellType is not its own type and rather a union of string literals or something along those lines

[thick ore]

celltype is... an enum

[harsh tundra]

... Wtf

[violet mural]

it's almost a linked list abstraction of earlier

[ancient minnow]

Hi guys need a quick help with mathematics

Does this equation hold?

BCS I can't find anywhere on the internet if you are allowed to split the products

My gut says you can because

[gritty zinc]

i can't read this at all. what is this symbol, Π?

[ancient minnow]

The product symbol

[ancient minnow]

Ye

It's the Greek letter pi

[ancient minnow]

It's just like adding 2 powers to each other

But when doing a summation this would be not legal

[gritty zinc]

This is valid, sure, just note that the second product isn't inside the first one

[ancient minnow]

Oh yeah ofc

Thx

[gritty zinc]

.latex $\prod_i A_i B_i = (\prod_i A_i)(\prod_i B_i)$ just like $\sum_i A_i+B_i = (\sum_i A_i) + (\sum_i B_i)$

[ancient minnow]

Ye so why i was confused is because you're not allowed to split sum(Ai*Bi) in sum(Ai)*sum(Bi)

But honestly it makes sense

If you rewrite it in basic mathematics it's perfectly legal

Ty

[violet mural]

oh no

[royal lake]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @vapid flower until <t:1685228860:f> (10 minutes) (reason: duplicates spam - sent 4 duplicate messages).

The <@&831776746206265384> have been alerted for review.

[thick ore]

https://yourwife.zip/
https://yourmom.zip/
funniest thing i've seen all day

[outer pebble]

.latex a^2+4b^9

[median dome]

Failed to render input.

View Logs

[rough sapphire]

skill issue

.latex $a^2+4b^9$

[rough sapphire]

.zip sites suck

[rough sapphire]

https://yourdad.zip/

[thick ore]

LMFAOO

[vestal fog]

yo

[uneven ingot]

how do i play thiz @worldly ice

[worldly ice]

it's kinda broken tbh

where did uh

where did the play button go 😳

[uneven ingot]

hahaha

[worldly ice]

ah, you are on Map

click Map again

or press Space to start

[uneven ingot]

ohhh yeah

[worldly ice]

and you are on Inverse, so start at 25 and go down

I apologize for how bad it is 😅

[uneven ingot]

ohhhhhh i like it

[worldly ice]

there are many options

I personally like 3x3 memo https://jaybrainer.github.io/schulte/?category=3x3 Memo

[uneven ingot]

ohhh is about memorizing

acurracy 100%

😄

im a pro schulte player

[worldly ice]

epic

i have a schulte app on my phone with blind/memo too

my best is I think 1.21 or something there

in the future I would like to write it in Python

[thick ore]

how the fuck did i get in that early

i literally signed up today

[small coral]

idk
probably much less requests to handle

[mystic drift]

Link?

[thick ore]

https://github.com/github-copilot/chat_waitlist_signup

[dapper shell]

I don't want to get into the details here, but I'm wondering if someone has links to the details about the RustConf keynote that was cancelled?

[low chasm]

was it the one by JeanHeyd Meneide? They've written a blog post about it ~ https://thephd.dev/i-am-no-longer-speaking-at-rustconf-2023

[dapper shell]

thanks, I saw that post. Have the organizers said anything? they invited, then demoted the keynote? Seems really odd.

[low chasm]

I don't know of the details, but they've also posted the following on a mastodon instance ~ https://pony.social/@thephd/110446817486174177, mentioning

It looks like somebody from inside the Rust Project, but not with the consensus of all leadership, tried to downgrade my talk (or perhaps have it outright retracted) because they did not like the direction the compile-time work I was doing. (Learned from: https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/)

seems like someone from the core team quit in protest as well

[low chasm]

https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/

[dapper shell]

because of the content of JeanHeyd's blog post on reflection in Rust.
any idea what that content was?

[low chasm]

https://soasis.org/posts/a-mirror-for-rust-a-plan-for-generic-compile-time-introspection-in-rust/ this one, I presume

[dapper shell]

thanks. I don't understand any of that content, but a quick glance doesn't show me what the concerns about the content are. It's too off the beaten path? Is it the work of a nut job? I don't understand why it shouldn't be a keynote.

[low chasm]

I don't understand too much of what this is all about either haha

sorry 😔

[young shoal]

drama 👀

[dapper shell]

"drama" is one of those tricky words: some people use to to ridicule others' concerns.

[young shoal]

maybe i should use "tea"

🧋

[low chasm]

fr

[dapper shell]

are you talking about the RustConf situation?

[young shoal]

yeah

[tranquil iron]

I did not understand that whole rust drama

the political mechanics of it, I mean

[reef goblet]

What happened with rust?

What drama?

[frozen coral]

The mods at r/rust wrote a decent summary https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/13sqdt7/i_am_no_longer_speaking_at_rustconf_2023_thephd/jlrmfar/

[rough sapphire]

Denying the word "drama" to engage in drama. Noted.

[frozen coral]

Point 4 being their reason, which I really don't understand

[tranquil iron]

I read that. it doesn't make sense

[reef goblet]

Why is the rust foundation so goofy 💀

[rough sapphire]

Are they canceling rust now? Yay

[dapper shell]

Right, point 4 should have been handled by telling the speaker to make clear that it's a blue-sky proposal with no official support.

[reef goblet]

First they got into drama over copyright and stuff

[tranquil iron]

oh wait, I didn't read that one, I read the one by the guy who said he's leaving the rust leadership team/board/whatever

[frozen coral]

Yea, seems easily solvable without removing their keynote slot

[rough sapphire]

I'm not gonna read an entire reddit comment that could just be summed up in 1 sentence

and I like how you guys are so relaxed about this but you never gave a keynote

[tardy rain]

My guy what

[honest star]

? Ned has given a keynote before though...

[rough sapphire]

who?

[tardy rain]

Sounds awfully combative for no reason

[dapper shell]

1. relaxed? 2) I gave a keynote at PyCon this year.

[rough sapphire]

Never heard of that I only heard of SucCon

[young shoal]

kat pls

[tranquil iron]

I read this one https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/. what confuses me is that it says the "interim leadership group" selected, asked and got the acceptence of JeanHeyd to give the keynode. then that "A person in Rust leadership then, without taking a vote from the interim leadership group (remember, JeanHeyd was voted on and selected by Rust leadership), reached directly to RustConf leadership and asked to change the invitation."

[honest star]

!mute 331127106648145921 1D You can go poorly troll elsewhere. Take a break.

[royal lake]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @rough sapphire until <t:1685470428:f> (1 day).

[dapper shell]

(I was responding to him, but oh well)

[tranquil iron]

what is this interim leadership group and how is it distinct from the "RustConf leadership"?

how did the "interim leadership group" have the authority to select a keynote speaker if it could be overriden without consultation or notification?

it sounds like a mess of unclear authority and responsibility to me

[tardy rain]

Rust lead and rustconf lead are different and rust lead is going through a restructuring apparently

[tranquil iron]

but then why did "rust lead" select the keynote speaker?

[tardy rain]

Which is probably where all this confusion comes from

[tranquil iron]

this sort of idiocy is why, IMO, these types of groups need business-like dictatorial control with the dictator selected by a board.

and the only real power the board has is to change the dictator

[dapper shell]

and who selects the board?

[young shoal]

the dictator of course

[tranquil iron]

that depends

[dapper shell]

btw, about RustConf, this twitter thread seems relevant: https://twitter.com/wifelette

[tranquil iron]

there's a reason this governance model doesn't work for national governments. because that's exactly what happens there. and that's bad.

[tranquil iron]

ok, so is what actually happened with the whole rustconf thing that one guy took it upon himself to tell the keynote speaker he was no longer keynote speaker?

[dapper shell]

honestly, I'm confused by the details.

[tranquil iron]

honestly, it's sounds like a mess from the start. why would you have the keynote be about an (controversial?) experimental proposed feature anyway? but then withdrawing the invitation afterwards is just... rude, humiliating, etc. Then the mishandling of the fallout.

[tardy rain]

Are there rules or conventions on what a keynote is to be about?

[tranquil iron]

no, but it seems to me that having the keynote be about a (controversial?) experimental proposed feature is not a good idea. you want the keynote to be innocuous but inspirational or at least attuned to the theme of the conference.

the proposed feature would be a great topic for a talk

either way, once the invite was issued, given that the would-be speaker was clear as to his topic and that was pre-accepted, he should have be kept. IMO, of course.

oddly, it seems that Ms Silber is quite experienced at organizing tech conferences. it may even be her primary expertise. so this mess is a bit surprising

[dapper shell]

it may not have been her doing.

[tranquil iron]

so many unknowns

[grave cove]

what the heck is going on with rust

first i'm hearing of any of this

[young shoal]

it happened recently

[weary moat]

Personally, I look for a controversial topic when selecting keynotes (for pycon UK). I want attendees discussing it all day. I want the speaker to be grabbed by people and quizzed. It has to be handled well, but I definitely don't want innocuous!

Controversy, yes. Antagonism, no.

[dapper shell]

I chose a unifying but unexpected topic

[reef goblet]

Mhm

This is such a rust moment ngl

[weary moat]

To be clear, I probably only want one controversial one. Not all of them!

But I do like to have one.

[reef goblet]

How do you guys organize such big events?

Like, where do you find speakers, venues and such?

[foggy jungle]

I think once you reach a certain level of scale or legitimacy, the speakers kind of find you.

[dapper shell]

I don't organize conferences as large as PyCon

[weary moat]

Finding speakers isn't really an issue for us. Choosing between the hundreds of submissions we receive is.

[low chasm]

venues I suppose shouldn't be a huge problem either, but maybe scheduling?

[weary moat]

Finding venues is relatively easy. Finding one with a team that will work with you and you can trust not to screw you is trickier!

[low chasm]

lmao

[tranquil iron]

if you have enough money, you can get them to screw over other people for you

[wraith hound]

well, there was an individual who communicated with the conference organizers, under the guise of doing this on the demand of rust leadership

this person was acting independently and without oversight

[tranquil iron]

if true, he needs to be removed

[wraith hound]

a (now former, as of yesterday) member of the core team talked about this in their blog post https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/

[tranquil iron]

not allowed to resign. it needs to be clear he was booted

all, IMO, of course

[wraith hound]

(they're not the one who did it, but they do feel shame that they "allowed" this to happen (not that they knew about it until everyone did))

[wraith hound]

okay new news

it's going to be public info

who did it

because rustconf has stated that the person will no longer be speaking

so now people will just wait until they're dropped off of the schedule

[young shoal]

wait what?

[wraith hound]

https://twitter.com/rustconf/status/1663317143226847233

RustConf (@rustconf)

There's no version of this where @__phantomderp isn't speaking, but the person most responsible for that is. They will no longer be speaking this year.

Twitter · May 29, 2023, 10:51 PM

this effectively reveals the person who did it

but it's also revealed that this was not a person acting entirely alone https://twitter.com/rustconf/status/1663317142023045120

RustConf (@rustconf)

I am not protecting them, and I also don't want to sic an internet mob on anyone. From the undocumented whisper network, it seems clear they were not acting on their own objections but representing pressures from others in Leadership/influential community members.

Twitter · May 29, 2023, 10:51 PM

and "undocumented whisper network" is wack

this entire thing is a mess

[tardy rain]

Everyone involved needs to turn off their router permanently

[lament cairn]

the fuick

rust be crazy

[low chasm]

what was the motivation of the individual was it related to the work JeanHeyd did?

[wraith hound]

it's unclear

[vale raven]

Hello
Have only seen snippets of this
Can I get the five second version of what actually happened?

[low chasm]

I think Chris linked it earlier - a mod on r/rust wrote a summary

[vale raven]

@low chasm ye

lemme see

[wraith hound]

1. rustconf asked the project to nominate people for a keynote
2. thephd was chosen to give a talk

• there were objections, but ultimately the leadership voted in favor

3. thephd made it explicitly clear that their work was very very early and that it was not set in stone and still had issues
4. both rustconf and the project still said they want it
5. <insert conference preparation work>
6. an individual from the project, representing the project, told rustconf that they wanted the keynote downgraded to a regular talk

• this individual was not acting at the behest of the entirety of leadership
• they were acting due to pressures of other leadership/influential community members

7. rustconf was uneasy, and gave the project a week to confirm
8. after that week, "the project"'s decision had not changed, and rustconf informed thephd
9. thephd published a blog post stating they were no longer giving the talk

• https://thephd.dev/i-am-no-longer-speaking-at-rustconf-2023

10. JT, a member of the core team, steps down in light of this, although they did not cause it

• https://www.jntrnr.com/why-i-left-rust/

11. two organizers of rustconf have taken some of the blame

• leah silber has expressed regret about the whole thing
  • https://twitter.com/wifelette/status/1662931571329105921
  • https://twitter.com/wifelette/status/1662938961248129025
• sage griffin has expressed regret about not confirming further, since they handled most of the communication
  • https://hachyderm.io/@sgrif/110448888160020037

12. rustconf has now announced that they're planning to effectively oust the individual

JT's post also has a timeline

[robust zephyr]

well i guess i don't understand the opposition to the talk given that the author made it clear the work was experimental

[wraith hound]

the exact motivations have been left unclear

there are reasonable objections (diagnostics, for example), but i don't think that's enough to do such a disrespectful thing

[low chasm]

https://pony.social/@thephd/110446817486174177 as well

[robust zephyr]

as an aside, it's very nice to see more mastodon posts instead of twitter. i hope it overtakes twitter

[lament cairn]

(it won't)

[robust zephyr]

i am curious about why the rust foundation hasn't come out and said plainly what the issue is

[wraith hound]

note: the foundation is a fairly uninvolved entity

the project and foundation are separate things

foundation handles financial and legal things, project handles the actual language development and leadership

[robust zephyr]

okay it seems i meant project here

[wraith hound]

it seems to me like they're just trying to avoid harassment of the individual

but now they're effectively outing the person already, so who knows

[robust zephyr]

[wraith hound]

ah yes, more stuff https://blog.rust-lang.org/2023/05/29/RustConf.html

[young shoal]

ooh official 👀

[lament cairn]

shits movin ffast

[thick ore]

rip

[proper nova]

Just tried java, for no reason whatsoever I have decided to learn Kotlin instead

https://tenor.com/view/python-gif-20799882

[thick ore]

was it always "What is happening?!"

i remember it was something like "What's happening?"

[thick ore]

wait, what? that's impossible!

[young shoal]

I guess they mean with a standard library sort function

[thick ore]

well, i doubt interviewers would ask you to use that builtin function (considering that's the entire question)

[quick ledge]

@earnest dust I'm removing your post because we do not allow advertisement in this server, sorry.

[harsh tundra]

Do they consider counting sort as sort? We don't keep the original objects, so it isn't really sort, we just re-create the thing in sorted order

[young shoal]

it's a sorting algorithm, it just doesn't compare the elements

[harsh tundra]

But it says to sort without using sorting algos, so that the most I can think of that would pass for that

Also O(n)

[young shoal]

well, idk what to tell you lol. it's a sorting algorithm because it sorts the elements

[graceful basin]

I am fairly certain they mean [0] * l.count(0) + [1] * l.count(1) + [2] * l.count(2), but it is more or less counting sort if you do that.

[harsh tundra]

That's what I meant. It's a sorting algo but there's no way to sort elements without sorting algo. So the counting sort sounds the best for "no sorting algos" here because it's a specific case sorting algo and doesn't really "sort" (as in rearranges current elements) but rather re-creates the thing already sorted.
Bucket sort with only one level of buckets would keep the elements.

[young shoal]

so not in place sorts also work?

[harsh tundra]

That will still use current elements. Count sort literally doesn't keep any references. So in case of python, let's say we got high numbers (beyond cached ones) - the ids of numbers in source and result could be different. Because we create the objects again

In-place and not in place is about additional memory used. But the objects from original still exist ~somewhere~

Reference is in original list/strict, in new one, or in both

[young shoal]

I can make a not in place sort that deep copies the elements

[harsh tundra]

Yes. But it's not a main premise of that algo.

Anyways, we're arguing over nothing. We're all agreeing there's no real way to do it "without using a sorting algo". I'm just arguing the counting sort is probably what they meant because it's not classic sorting as it's only for very specific data and its details are very different from other sorting algos. Lak Also said he is "fairly certain" they means counting sort ("it is more or less counting sort when you do that")

[young shoal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tardy rain]

How many brain cells does hsp have

[jaunty wraith]

fewer than you think

[tranquil iron]

what is hsp?

[rugged owl]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal_snack_pack

[frozen crane]

@noble plaza

[noble plaza]

That's actually pretty good,. A shame it'll be obsolete in 10 years.

[frozen crane]

probably sooner

[noble plaza]

True.

[uneven pine]

I don't think anyone talks like that now

I haven't seen people use rekt in a couple of years

[grave cove]

preach cuh 💯

[heady lion]

thoughts on the new discord usernames?

[uneven pine]

Fuck them in every possible way for fucking up their platform continually

Please do continue ignoring accessibility features and the inability to block people to fuck up our usernames and add stupid fucking iphone games to voice chats that NOBODY USES

[heady lion]

Rash but incredibly valid

Saw a couple posts speculating that this (like all Discord updates) is a precursor to going public and/or launching a social media platform proper. But this one would make a little more sense to me than it normally does

Because having unique usernames lets discord come to potential shareholders and say something like "There are 100M+ registered names on Discord!" and not necessarily be lying

[mystic isle]

cringe

[frozen crane]

you are cringe.

[mystic isle]

the last part is a bit like that

but no offence

but some terms in there is kind of outdated

like rekt

[thick ore]

that's the point lol

[frozen crane]

you know what else is outdated?

[young shoal]

yo mama

[thick ore]

do not😭

[frozen crane]

anyone wanna see a cat btw

[thick ore]

fuck yeah

[mystic isle]

cool

[frozen crane]

do you love him?

[thick ore]

no way

that is a dog

[frozen crane]

no
he is cat

[thick ore]

damn

[thick ore]

i guess

[robust zephyr]

model cat

[frozen crane]

if you don't love him, then you are evil

[acoustic moss]

i dont like the way hes staring into my soul

[grave cove]

what a lil cutie

whos a good boy

give him scritches please thanks

[frozen crane]

Sounds like you have things you need to work through. Don't blame my little cat

Even though he's a big cat

[grave cove]

chomky mcchomkster

[low chasm]

it's your souls fault for being so easy to stare at

[acoustic moss]

Victim blaming

[thick ore]

W rizz

[tranquil iron]

in honor of the channel name , https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/lawyer-cited-6-fake-cases-made-up-by-chatgpt-judge-calls-it-unprecedented/

that is too lol

apparently, the lawyer asked chatgpt if the cases were real and it assured him they were. lol

[jaunty wraith]

what could go wrong

[tranquil iron]

the judge is considering sanctioning the lawyer

[tardy rain]

disbarred or bust

[young shoal]

actual malpractice

[gritty zinc]

damn, now i want to play Big Pharma again

great game; I especially love the part where you can carefully not cure your customers because that's a one-time profit, whereas if you sell a remedy they'll keep paying for it for their entire lives 🥴

[jaunty wraith]

realistic game

[late orchid]

@cold jetty continuing from general since that isn't really python related:
I got a few credits from participating in an event in the OpenAI discord in October 2022 and I think that a few more when I got access to an experimental model, but that is still a fixed number of free credits, not permanent free usage

everyone receives a certain number of free creedits each month

[gritty zinc]

ah yes, UBI 🥴

[cold jetty]

yeah I remember I had a friend who had it free each month

I wanted to see if anyone had credits that they weren't using this month

I wanted to see if dalle can generate business logo mockups well

[harsh tundra]

Pride month starts tomorrow

I saw some pride merch today

Good pride merch: spiders

[tulip falcon]

The medal seems funny to me

and the packaging- is everything in white boxes at this store?

[onyx mist]

Yup

Angel beats broke me

Completely

Shattered me

From the inside out

[jaunty wraith]

[rugged owl]

Did it shatter your heart?

[prisma viper]

Hey everyone,

I hope you're all doing well! I'm reaching out to the members of this server today with an exciting opportunity. I'm looking for a like-minded individual who shares the same level of Python programming skills as me, and who is interested in collaborating on a project together.

If you consider yourself an intermediate-level Python programmer and are enthusiastic about working on a project, this could be a great chance for us to join forces. Together, we can leverage our skills, knowledge, and creativity to build something amazing.

The project will provide us with the opportunity to apply our Python programming expertise, strengthen our problem-solving abilities, and enhance our overall programming proficiency. We can discuss project ideas, determine the scope, and decide on the specifics once we find a suitable partner.

If you're interested and believe that you have the necessary skills and dedication, please reach out to me via direct message or reply to this message. Let's connect, discuss our backgrounds and interests, and see if we're a good fit to embark on this project together.

Remember, it's crucial that we're at a similar level of Python programming proficiency to ensure a productive and harmonious collaboration. So, if you're an intermediate-level Python programmer ready to take on a project, let's team up!

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Best regards,
Mazine Ezzamita```

[grave cove]

did chatgpt write this

[prisma viper]

yes

I have the finals tomorrow

and my head had better days

so i can't make such big thing

but hey, atleast it does get the job done??

[onyx mist]

Yes

completely

and utterlyu

[prisma viper]

so no one??

[carmine apex]

!rule ad

[royal lake]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[foggy jungle]

My hands can't hold all these opcodes.

[tranquil iron]

have you considered getting bigger hands?

[foggy jungle]

Smaller opcodes, you're a genius!

[foggy jungle]

Working on one of my projects which attempts to reconstruct functions that are problematic for pycdc in equivalent opcodes within the bytecode of a .pyc so that the decompiling process is more accurate or proceeds further along.

[tranquil iron]

sounds challenging

how much does generation change between python major versions?

[carmine apex]

.xkcd 378 @wraith hound

[median dome]

XKCD comic #378

Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

2008/2/1 - #378, 'Real Programmers'

[wraith hound]

the xkcd does not have the real command

i was incredibly disappointed when i tried this out

[carmine apex]

real command? did emacs authors defictionalize the butterfly command?

[wraith hound]

yeah, M-x butterfly does a thing

[carmine apex]

https://doc.endlessparentheses.com/Fun/butterfly.html
that's absolutely magnificant

[tardy rain]

Its that time of the year

I sure hope mods are ready for it

[dapper dew]

Somewhat

[shrewd thunder]

python general is now even worse than usual

[carmine apex]

imagine if there was a chagpt month. shudders pygen would never be on-topic

[heady lion]

No respect for AI 👎

[robust zephyr]

if a person suggested you use regex to parse JSON, would you respect them? no? well that's what chatgpt has suggested

[tulip falcon]

I'm growing my hair long 😗

[low chasm]

based

[tulip falcon]

Its already medium I'm just excited about it hahahaha

[low chasm]

how are you going to wear it?

[tulip falcon]

I got my hair cut and just left it all in the front

[mossy flare]

@rough sapphireSry, I really want to know, whats your Problem?

[rough sapphire]

shh

[mossy flare]

short dm?

[rough sapphire]

no

we have different opinions end of story

nothing will change

[distant hazel]

!shh

[royal lake]

✅ silenced current channel for 4 minute(s).

[distant hazel]

circumventing moderation is not the way to go. drop it

!unsh

looks like i was pretty slow on that anyway

!unshh

[royal lake]

✅ unsilenced current channel.

[mossy flare]

so uh can i answer on his msg or rather not?

[distant hazel]

no

[worldly ice]

Why is one yellow

[tardy rain]

Its a super react

[worldly ice]

It shows as normal for me tho besides yellow

(on iPhone)

[distant hazel]

they don't have full support on mobile yet

so they just look highlighted

[carmine apex]

i'm not sure anything has full support on discord mobile

[stark prawn]

especially iphone

[rough sapphire]

no way android has better support... in any app

[tulip falcon]

Oh I forgot iPhone exists

[rough sapphire]

imagine using an iphone and expection a function phone

[worldly ice]

And expection a function phone

[distant hazel]

what defines functional phone

have you ever had a nokia stick phone

[tulip falcon]

def phone():

[rough sapphire]

nah im not that old lol

[distant hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/old-cell-phone-gif-10166467

what about these

[rough sapphire]

bro im not 100

[robust zephyr]

who had one of these? https://media.itpro.com/image/upload/v1570813455/itpro/images/dir_117/it_photo_58788.jpg

[distant hazel]

i was not cool enough to have a sidekick

if that's what that is

[robust zephyr]

yeah it's a sidekick. one of my favorite phones

[tulip falcon]

Just because iPhones are comparatively better than something from 50 years ago doesn't mean it's worth $1300

[carmine apex]

please be nice to minaberry. they're not 100. they're at least 500

[rough sapphire]

lmao

[distant hazel]

i did have the envy though

[robust zephyr]

ooo

[rough sapphire]

they probably had to use a corded phone 💀 💀

[distant hazel]

honestly kinda miss the brick phones

i have small hands

[tulip falcon]

I had some orange slider phone until I got bored of it and broke it on purpose

[stark prawn]

I'm so old that I remember being excited about getting my first phone with a color screen.

[tulip falcon]

Woah can't wait to play snake on this badboy!

[rough sapphire]

not the color screen

[stark prawn]

that was back when people still used sms

[rough sapphire]

my phone just stopped

[stark prawn]

You were the cool kid if your brick supported t9

[tulip falcon]

Or people porting doom onto calculators. I wish I knew how to do that when it was cool

[rough sapphire]

they got better games on calcs now

[plush sun]

🌈 It's that time of the year again 🔨

[worldly ice]

osu! the game with lowercase (chill) but an exclamation mark (not chill)

yelling silently

[worldly ice]

time for the leprechauns to build a rainbow?

is that what the rainbow and hammer means?

I thought st. patricks day was in march or sumn

[stark prawn]

Hammer might be a reference to increase moderation activity in this month

[worldly ice]

Jojo reference 🤔

[plush sun]

Yeah 😄

[worldly ice]

the word "reference" is a reference to the phrase "jojo reference" in which something references the anime "Jojo Siwa's Bizarre Adventure"

[stark prawn]

That truly is one of the most mediocre animes I've ever seen, was expecting more after the memea

[worldly ice]

never seen it before

[shrewd thunder]

It has a rabid fan base, similar to dragonball z, just very slightly less toxic.

[crystal spruce]

the first couple were mid

golden wind was top tier tho

[hexed sierra]

stone ocean is great

[thick ore]

lmao does anyone remember "aboo for helper"

now he's a mod :D

[rough sapphire]

i had pretty similar nokia

[rough sapphire]

wait

is that a jojo reference!!!!??

[rough sapphire]

cry about it, ur just lacking

[warm girder]

People of faith, listen to the words of Allah. He, the one and only God, wishes to make His command clear. Homosexuality was created when the cosmos were first formed. Allah established love in all forms was good. He did not intend for any believer to reject or vilify gays or any other kind of individuals who are different. Allah's divine laws should be accepted and His decree to be followed. Love is universal and should be respected and treated respectfully, regardless of what form it takes. Allah is the one true God and should be accepted as such

Moreover, Allah declares that He is gay, and that His laws, love, and LGBT+ identity should be accepted and respected. He wishes for all believers to understand that the gay community is an important part of the divine plan. Love in all forms is seen by Him as beautiful and is to be embraced. Unconditional love and acceptance should be shown to all regardless of their sexuality or gender identity.

[thick ore]

W

[vale raven]

What do we say now?
“🪧aboo for admin!”?

[thick ore]

yes

we need aboo to become one of the modmail

[vale raven]

aight

🪧 @low chasm for admin!

(good morning aboo)

[tardy rain]

Aboo for president 20whenever he turns 35

[thick ore]

aboo for retirement after

[vale raven]

Just remember the one commandment

Don't be a dick
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr0RmfbymD0

[mental isle]

wait, headings are allowed?

I assumed they'd be disabled

...

...

oh okay

[tulip falcon]

I assumed someone would get mad at me if I abused it

[mental isle]

well of course one shouldn't abuse them

But I thought they'd be disabled altogether

I think I'm not abusing them since this chat is not active atm and I'm not flooding

[low chasm]

if you insist

[thick ore]

we are talking to our future president right here folks

[jaunty wraith]

future president of pydisland

[tulip falcon]

Probably takes generations

[thick ore]

he will take over the world and force every piece of software to be rewritten in rust

now everything can be blazing-fast 🚀⚡BLAZINGLY FAST⚡ 🚀 💯!!

[tulip falcon]

Or never at all, probably no way everyone can agree on what is moral

[small coral]

true equality has never been achieved 😔

[tulip falcon]

Use strict equality

[thick ore]

obviously.

"use strict";
===

#JSForEveryone

[robust zephyr]

i never see people use that anymore

[tulip falcon]

Use strict or strict equality?

[stark oasis]

🤣

[robust zephyr]

use strict

[tulip falcon]

No reason to not use it, disallows from using undeclared variables

Its idiomatic for knowing JS

[honest star]

What's the easiest way to open a terminal window in Mac?

[tulip falcon]

Does ctrl+shift+t work?

[honest star]

I have no idea, I don't have a Mac but have to code a very, very, very easy to use script for a Mac

[low chasm]

fasterthanlime wrote an article on the whole rustconf drama 👀 https://fasterthanli.me/articles/the-rustconf-keynote-fiasco-explained

[distant hazel]

for a basic user, i think opening spotlight (mac's launcher) and then typing terminal should do

i don't think there's a native keyboard shortcut for it

cmd+space opens spotlight

[honest star]

thanks!

[distant hazel]

and then for the slightly above basic user, i think most will go for iTerm2, which launches with opt(alt)+space

[jaunty wraith]

that keybinding isn't a default

[distant hazel]

for iterm2?

oh maybe not

[grave cove]

Alacrity on Mac is pretty good

[jaunty wraith]

I've not been able to get it working the way I have it on linux tbh

iTerm2 is the best term for macOS

[willow narwhal]

What is your problem with it on macOS? (I've been using it there for years now)

[jaunty wraith]

keybinding mostly

[willow narwhal]

I see

[frozen crane]

Rather [certain religions] they say that if someone is gay then they should restrain themselves and not act upon their desires.
While this is true, if these religions taught that being gay is inherently wrong, the outcome would be the same. Being taught that they way that you experience love is illegitimate messes with your mind in a way that you can't comprehend if you haven't experienced it.

CC @dapper shell

[dapper shell]

"You know that thing that is central to you? It's bad so you have to pretend it isn't there."

"And definitely you cannot form any meaningful relationships, because the way you do it is bad too"

[harsh tundra]

Also, this doesn't take into account that LGBTQ+ is also trans people and ace and aro.
If someone is asexual homoromamtic, "their desires" are just love, not sex, ffs!

[dapper shell]

@lunar zealot doesn't want to engage in discussion I guess.

[frozen crane]

They might not know that we've moved here, yet.

[shrewd thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/izctrl-popcorn-gif-21698700

Me this whole month

[frozen crane]

Tabari hasn't sent any messages in the server since their last one in community feedback.

[harsh tundra]

I've had people tell me my existence as a trans person is affront to [gG]od. Don't even know me or my medical history (some people tell that due to medical transition, because somehow everything [gG]od made is perfect - but they're somehow fine with a lot of medicine or even just glasses?)

[grave cove]

[shrewd thunder]

[harsh tundra]

I like this sticker I posted. Also helps if someone decides that being a furry is something to hate. I like being a honeypot

[grave cove]

"Wumpus & Co: Daily Routine" sticker pack is kind of funny

[harsh tundra]

Btw, honey from last week

[shrewd thunder]

At first I thought that was jarate irl lol

But now I’m salivating at the image

[harsh tundra]

And a piece of honeycomb :3

[robust zephyr]

bite into that you won't

[frozen crane]

you hate bees

[shrewd thunder]

I will gladly bite into honeycomb if it is local. Helps with my allergies

[harsh tundra]

What? The comb is from part of the hive to which the queen doesn't have access, it doesn't have any larvae nor eggs
That's literally how honey is made - the hive gets divided and the stuff they do in that non-queen part is taken out

[frozen crane]

because she's too big to fit in it?

[robust zephyr]

ever see that Texan bee lady that rescues colonies?

i like her Tiktoks

[harsh tundra]

There's kind of a crate between the frames and she's too big to cross it, yes

[shrewd thunder]

Meanwhile in my kitchen…

[grave cove]

soup

[shrewd thunder]

Broth made from Parmesan rinds

[harsh tundra]

There's a swarmed group here

[robust zephyr]

are you gonna go say hi?

[versed fern]

@dapper shell u invited me here, so how its not a cult?

[dapper shell]

define "cult"

[robust zephyr]

this server is way too big to be a cult

[shrewd thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-popcorn-eating-gif-18107571

[frozen crane]

nah, the server is a personality cult surrounding lemon

[versed fern]

to be exact lets check here :
Cult is a term, sometimes considered pejorative, for a relatively small group which is typically led by a charismatic and self-appointed leader, who excessively controls its members, requiring unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs and practices which are considered deviant (outside the norms of society).

its literally a cult

[shrewd thunder]

by that definition, so is catholicism

[frozen crane]

who is the charasmatic leader of gay?

[dapper shell]

"relatively small" compared to what. and who is our charasmatic leader?

[frozen crane]

can it be me?

[honest star]

can it be you?

[versed fern]

not gay, "lgbtq"

[robust zephyr]

i for one welcome our new leader

[shrewd thunder]

All hail stel

[rough sapphire]

im opressed by mods

[dapper shell]

also, no one is making you agree with anyone. You just should respect people.

[versed fern]

Elite who have control over slaves ofcourse. i dont know them by name sorry. i bet nobody does

[versed fern]

hmm how real is that

leftist mobs sending death treats to whoever says otherwise

h

[shrewd thunder]

Damn, that koolaid must be real tasty

[dapper shell]

you got death threats?

[harsh tundra]

Spoiler because TW bees and honeycomb (holes) - closeups

@frozen crane in some of them you can see larvae. Also, if you take a closer look on those and the one above, the caps over larvae are a bit raised - the honey had it flat (looked quite textured because the honeycomb structure kinda interfered with it).
The photo with blue dot is queen. Queens get marked with colours to better notice them and know their birth year (this was blue for years ending in 0 and 5 - photo from 2020). You can see she's bigger 🙂

[torpid shuttle]

he imagined himself getting death threats and it scared him 😦

[rough sapphire]

u will be banned or blocked like my by mods in dm

[robust zephyr]

just check out their profile and it's plain to see from where the delusion originates

[shrewd thunder]

Victim mentality is a hell of a drug

[shrewd thunder]

that's pretty blatant lol

[versed fern]

trying to force everybody to call u by ur self made pronouns. to live in a fantasy world, like a roleplay world but be delusional to think its real, and expecting everybody to take part in your roleplay game is rediculous

[shrewd thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/attention-victim-victim-mindset-victim-mode-irene-choi-gif-15596456

[versed fern]

im saying, be whatever u are, just dont be in a cult. stop being brainwashed by left

i respect a gay person

totally

[shrewd thunder]

Suuuure you do lol

[harsh tundra]

But not trans, as you just said above

[torpid shuttle]

be whatever you are, but if i'm asked to respect you i'll do anything but acknowledge you for being what you are

does that sum it up

[harsh tundra]

Also, quite interesting hearing about cults from someone who got Tate in the banner XD

[shrewd thunder]

the transphobes tend to be the most "But I'm the real victim here" of the bigots tbh. so this convo is precisely on track.

[honest star]

Consider this your last warning, that we do expect pronouns and people in general to be respected here. If you cannot be respectful and abide by our #code-of-conduct, you will be removed from this server.

[cosmic quiver]

there are currently 2 people with mod powers in this chat actively looking at the screen and chatting, why exactly is this kind of behaviour being still entertained instead of just removing the person from the server, they're clearly not here in good faith and have doubled down on the nonsense

[frozen crane]

this is me

[rough sapphire]

old

[shrewd thunder]

we believe in second and third chances here. everyone is given a chance to become a better person.

[torpid shuttle]

this message has been removed for heresy against our lord and saviour Stelecrus

[warm girder]

People of faith, listen to the words of Allah. He, the one and only God, wishes to make His command clear. Homosexuality was created when the cosmos were first formed. Allah established love in all forms was good. He did not intend for any believer to reject or vilify gays or any other kind of individuals who are different. Allah's divine laws should be accepted and His decree to be followed. Love is universal and should be respected and treated respectfully, regardless of what form it takes. Allah is the one true God and should be accepted as such

Moreover, Allah declares that He is gay, and that His laws, love, and LGBT+ identity should be accepted and respected. He wishes for all believers to understand that the gay community is an important part of the divine plan. Love in all forms is seen by Him as beautiful and is to be embraced. Unconditional love and acceptance should be shown to all regardless of their sexuality or gender identity.

[cosmic quiver]

so true

[versed fern]

so here is the thing. i respect real transes. but i believe the real trans number is less that 1% of what they claim to be. these transes that u see in tiktok and in streets are just sick. there are many reasons one might feel that way. children who are exposed to that can claim to be trans, those who hate themselves for any reason and are trying to feel special by being a part of a community they might claim that they are trans, and many other reasons. 99% of others are brainwashed by left and this cult yes. if u are a real trans or gay/les u prob would know this is a cult. lgbtq is just making those individuals suffer by demonizing them

[robust zephyr]

is this meant to provoke people or is it really true?

[harsh tundra]

Last year I was infecting people with rainbows

[cosmic quiver]

second chances are things you give to people who are showing a willingness to change

see again

[shrewd thunder]

and now we're at no true scotsman

yeah, i'm with ava at this point

[harsh tundra]

"trans" is an adjective
You called trans people sick <@&831776746206265384>

[shrewd thunder]

i'm run out of chances to give this person

[versed fern]

"average cult member"

[honest star]

!ban 1038165208457293934 It's clear you have no intentions to engage meaningfully in this server. Homophobia and transphobia will not be tolerated. I genuinely hope you stop reading conspiracy theories and stop considering a community of people, who are just trying to exist and not have their fundamental rights erased, a cult.

[royal lake]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @versed fern permanently.

[shrewd thunder]

thank you

[jaunty wraith]

kat has the best words

[reef geyser]

Goddamnit I hate this month

[cosmic quiver]

I do not understand why even let it escalate to this point

[reef geyser]

for this reason specifically

[rough sapphire]

me love consipracy

[heavy pawn]

it's good, they come out of the woodworks and get themselves removed

[shrewd thunder]

giving them enough rope?

[frozen crane]

!ban 897236003599814677 You've demonstrated that you are a bad-faith actor as well.

[royal lake]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @loud schooner permanently.

[reef geyser]

Yeah, I just hate tabbing back in to see 36 pings from various places all around the server

[robust zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-gif-24177057

[solid elbow]

We need to walk a line between allowing civil discourse between people with different identity, backgrounds, and beliefs, and removing members who cause harm.

[foggy jungle]

I'm afraid I'm gonna get Aboo'd. 😐

[shrewd thunder]

is that just from atting the mods?

[harsh tundra]

If you don't, then hidden bigots will claim that you're banning people for nothing. There were devil's advocates in #community-meta earlier claiming that happens and that if someone was active for a long time and "the logo made them send hateful content", they shouldn't get banned... 🤦

[cosmic quiver]

ok well just ban those people too

[lament cairn]

are people really that afraid/angry at some fucking flags

[solid elbow]

And yeah, that too.

[shrewd thunder]

"the logo made them send hateful content" I was unaware that logos had that kind of power over a person's free will

[cosmic quiver]

don't allow people to debate people's existence

[robust zephyr]

the logo made me do it

[reef geyser]

you'd be surprised by what people allow to tick them off

[frozen crane]

Yes, because they're fed a continuous diet of misinformation.

[honest star]

Because this type of bigotry is not someone happens to come by casually. It's learned and ingrained from others. It's important to us that we assume good faith until proven otherwise. There have been cases where people have taken our words serisously and, given some time, genuinely changed their beliefs. It's also for the people who are looking onwards.

It's important for us to show that we engage with good faith attempts. If someone genuinely has good intentions but simply doesn't have exposure to the LGBTQ+ community, we don't want them to feel like they'll be banned for misstepping.

[lament cairn]

mods/admins should just ban them on sight honestly god holyfuckingshit

[harsh tundra]

Apparently it's like red fabric for a bull or something, they can be calm but then spew bigoted content because someone waved a flag near them...? Something like that

[shrewd thunder]

As I always say: Fox News is called Fox News because it does.

[cosmic quiver]

agreed

they're not going to get their minds changed in 30 minutes of online chatting

[reef geyser]

wait, since when was stel the leader of the lgbtq+

why was there no announcement for this

[jaunty wraith]

since a while ago, keep up

[reef geyser]

the hell

[shrewd thunder]

I appreciate the sentiment, but us disabled and queer folk have a saying: "When someone shows you what they're really like, believe them the first time."

[cosmic quiver]

there's a ban appeal process and people can explain how they've changed for the better there (I have never had this happen)

[robust zephyr]

i can see you are jaded but it is better to give someone an opportunity than to show no empathy or understanding of their situation. hate is learned, and it can be unlearned

[solid elbow]

The Q is for Stelerqus

[honest star]

I mean I'm literally part of the queer community. I'm a VP for a queer non-profit and I spent at least 10 hours a week volunteering for it.

[reef geyser]

alright, I get to be head of trans affairs then

[frozen crane]

someone said that LGBT is a cult with a charasmatic leader, but no one knows who that leader is, so I decided that it's me

[reef geyser]

this makes complete sense

[torpid shuttle]

it's that kind of charisma that makes you a leader

[jaunty wraith]

denied

[reef geyser]

[cosmic quiver]

I know but it's not something that happens

• while you're allowed to keep spouting your stuff
• within a day online arguing with moderators on a server

[harsh tundra]

I've seen it happen. Or at least, the discussion surrounding it made people just watching it become more understanding. I literally had people thanking me for interacting with someone (who eventually escalated and ended up getting muted or something) because I tried to use simple language to explain queer concepts etc and it was useful for them

[foggy jungle]

I still fuck up on verbiage-- I'm still learning how to be more accomodating and inclusive in my language. But I didn't grow up in an environment that was particularly inclusive of LGBTQ+ , so I'm not aware of a lot of the conventions surrounding things like potentially inflammatory language, etc. I heavily respect individuals that display the patience to continue to correct my use of particular words or phrases. I think Kat's right, there are a non-small portion of people who simply don't know better, and exposing them to an environment in good faith where they can learn to do better is incredibly positive. You shouldn't have to debate your existence, but outright banning dissent might serve the wrong message or disparage a teaching moment.

[lament cairn]

i feel like the amount of people that change their minds within the average time before a ban would be effectively negligible. but i'd love to be proven wrong 🙂

[foggy jungle]

Learning how to be an effective ally sometimes requires dispelling the ignorance first.

[shrewd thunder]

I'm still working on unlearning the bigotry that my parents taught me. They're classic northern us bigots: perfectly fine with marginalized groups holding political power, but would rather die than be seen in the same room as them.

[warm girder]

People of faith, listen to the words of Allah. He, the one and only God, wishes to make His command clear. Be gay.

[cosmic quiver]

I was a real shitter when I was 12 or 13 due to my school environment mostly consisting of homophobia and the like, it took me literal years to actually unlearn it and not just go "yeah I have no issue with gay people as long as they don't shove it down my throat" or other copouts

[grave cove]

I bet there's a lot of "mods are supressing free speech" going around now too

[shrewd thunder]

yup

[honest star]

At least that's year round. We get the reps in all the time

[harsh tundra]

There's also Hanlon's razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity/ignorance". So we allow second chance but remember the situation for the next time

[reef geyser]

reps
you imply I gain strength from the downfall of bad actors

[solid elbow]

It's also not just about how the people who would get banned react, but also how other people watching from the sidelines might feel. If they think we're shutting down people with their views unfairly, that causes harm as well.

[reef geyser]

well yes, I do

[solid elbow]

It's all a tightrope act.

[foggy jungle]

Luna has threatened to kick my ass. It's tyrannical here.

[grave cove]

fr

[reef geyser]

Only a lovetap

[foggy jungle]

[reef geyser]

anyway

[cosmic quiver]

I have not once had a homophobe appeal to me and say it was behind them

[jaunty wraith]

[lament cairn]

ah that makes more sense

[stark oasis]

Personally, if you guys didn't make people demonstrate that they were irredeemable, I would question you as well

[robust zephyr]

i actually do - i feel invigorated when hate is extinguished

[shrewd thunder]

some are into that sort of thing.

[grave cove]

😳

[reef geyser]

[honest star]

@solid elbow has done some actual saint-like work having very, very, very extended chats with folks (especially younger people) who simply don't know better in thsi channel. I'm talking like 1-2 hour long discussions that others would've tapped out earlie on and banned. The end result has been them finally reaching understanding and actually changing their mindset. It takes a lot of work, but if someone is willing to engage with us respectfully, it's a conversation worth having.

[harsh tundra]

This. I've interacted with a lot of folks here, a lot of them are kids from countries where being openly queer is not common. I've had people tell me being queer is illegal where they are. And I was like, so what? I will still exist, I'll just not travel there...

[shrewd thunder]

Oh, are people surprised that kink is also a part of pride?

[lament cairn]

huh didnt know that. excellent work

[reef geyser]

kat really is the ultimate answer

[grave cove]

the words do be wording

[foggy jungle]

You've activated PyDis's KatCard.

Prepare to be educated.

[reef geyser]

katcard sounds like a wonderful credit card

[honest star]

I get a buff during Pride in terms of how well I communicate

[stark oasis]

yeah unfortunately where a lot of people are from dictate their ignorance. And if you think about, even people in the west were 99.9% ignorant about this subject just ten years ago. So we do have to try to extend the hand to teach people their old ways of thinking are... old.

[reef geyser]

it better have paw prints and stuff on it

[jaunty wraith]

luna, when did you become head of trans affairs?

[reef geyser]

since now, keep up

[honest star]

In May most of my ban messages are literally "lol nah"

[foggy jungle]

The APurR isn't that good though.

[honest star]

These are all self-appointed. Grab the head positions while they're free

[foggy jungle]

Exercise caution before you're shackled with insurmeowntable debt.

[lament cairn]

where I live, people simply don't give a shit what you are
(in the "I don't care, I'll interact with you normally" sense, not the "You're less than human" way)

[foggy jungle]

I'm not kitten, it's a serious problem.

[reef geyser]

congrats rem, you've won today
how do you feel

[honest star]

I personally am Head of Disaster Bi Folk

[shrewd thunder]

I guess I missed out on that one

[carmine apex]

KP, where is the thrown table?

[frozen crane]

what is a disaster bi?

[jaunty wraith]

[foggy jungle]

My job as an analyst at the moment.

[grave cove]

what are you analysting

[honest star]

You're bisexual and your life is always kind of falling apart in new and exciting ways

[foggy jungle]

Financial data, and the data is winning.

[frozen crane]

seems like two unrelated things

[grave cove]

Rem - 0
Data - 1

[reef geyser]

the data is winning?

[foggy jungle]

The data always wins. 😦

[honest star]

You would think and yet the correlation is so high

[shrewd thunder]

sounds like being both bi and neurodivergent in the workplace lol

[reef geyser]

didn't think the data was the house

[cosmic quiver]

this is genuinely a correlation

[reef geyser]

you're gambling with statistics apparently

rigged beyond reason

[cosmic quiver]

bisexual people are more prone to getting shafted by life for some reason

[jaunty wraith]

statistinks

[foggy jungle]

If you knew what kind of financial data I'm manipulating, you would be very afraid.

[reef geyser]

I'm afraid of most finances

[shrewd thunder]

that gets exponentially worse when said bisexual people also have any form of disability whatsoever

[cosmic quiver]

yeah

[foggy jungle]

Numbers in general really.

[jaunty wraith]

the data might be financial

[foggy jungle]

Anything with over 2 0's is a spooky number.

[jaunty wraith]

1000000

[reef geyser]

000

[foggy jungle]

AH!

[grave cove]

terrified

[shrewd thunder]

I'm bi, I'm disabled, and I have xyy. I was fucked from day 1.

[reef geyser]

absolutely shook

[grave cove]

reject big number return to 10

[reef geyser]

return to base-9

[grave cove]

me when prime number base

[jaunty wraith]

base 86

best base

[shrewd thunder]

base 420

[grave cove]

base d

[reef geyser]

base d

[jaunty wraith]

unbased

[foggy jungle]

bast64

[shrewd thunder]

rebase

[reef geyser]

YOU'RE UNBASED

[shrewd thunder]

I'm proud to be so cringe I loop back around to based.

[jaunty wraith]

as head of cat affairs, I meow in your general direction

[grave cove]

can i be head of bird affairs

[reef geyser]

yes

[grave cove]

based

[foggy jungle]

I briefly considered (Head of Malware Affairs) but... That might send the wrong message.

[reef geyser]

head of botnet affairs

[grave cove]

hello mortals

[reef geyser]

sup birb

[jaunty wraith]

birds are mortal too

[grave cove]

you have no idea how accurate that is

[reef geyser]

lol

[grave cove]

fake news

[jaunty wraith]

a wa

[shrewd thunder]

guess I'll give myself the head of neurodivergent lgbtqa+ affairs

[tropic lichen]

Rem, head of definitely-not-malware affairs

[grave cove]

who gets to be the head of heads

[foggy jungle]

uhh

[reef geyser]

the head of head

[grave cove]

your mom probably

[foggy jungle]

Rethink your phrasing.

[jaunty wraith]

head^^^

me when git

[foggy jungle]

How do I get that little Windows emoji popup back

[reef geyser]

that's on you for being a dirty minded person rem

[jaunty wraith]

git reset --hard HEAD^

[reef geyser]

clean your head

[foggy jungle]

I want my panicking emoji

[grave cove]

git when head --hard

[reef geyser]

no shot

[jaunty wraith]

[foggy jungle]

Is that a decision coming down from the Head of Heads?

[shrewd thunder]

May want to wrap these heads up lolol

[grave cove]

the heads are clearly not heading

[reef geyser]

yeah, new company policy effective today

[jaunty wraith]

with a polished guillotine

[grave cove]

[harsh tundra]

Sounds about right...

[shrewd thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/bi-bisexual-pride-month-pride-nsync-gif-17407886

Me when bisexuality is mentioned in any context ever

[jaunty wraith]

damn nsync

I feel old

[shrewd thunder]

showing my age here lol

[reef geyser]

damn async

[acoustic moss]

thats because you are

[grave cove]

reject async return to greenlet