nice idea
#voice-chat-text-0
viscid pelican
devout heath
library boss
luckyMurica
nah, they're still around, they're going to stick around
schools still make children go to them
viscid pelican
schools still make children go to them
hmm
devout heath
it's an idle asset, just lives on your property tax
viscid pelican
it's an idle asset, just lives on your property tax
what is tax
devout heath
I would fight to keep my library open
somber heath
what is tax
Where the government says "You make money? You have stuff? You exist? You died? You bought something? Give us money."
devout heath
lol
viscid pelican
Idk what the Hindi word for tax is
noo i know english but i naver hart before
devout heath
estate taxes are a joke unless you're into real money
but yeah every time money moves the government want's it's tax. or kar. or whatever
whole bear
estate taxes are a joke unless you're into real money
And you don't have to pay taxes regardless of how big your estate is if there's a place of worship in it
whole bear
Yeah, lots of people started building churches on their land here back in the 60s and 70s so that the government wouldn't put their lands in the redistribution scheme
viscid pelican
but way i Should pay money for Government
devout heath
I want the number of atheists to keep increasing like it has
seems people are learning the lack of evidence
thing about taxing churches is that you suddenly turn part of everyone's tithe into political action
whole bear
but way i Should pay money for Government
It eventually comes back to you through public services like education, affordable healthcare, transport etc
Or at least it should
viscid pelican
i saw
viscid pelican
goodnight
GN
@somber heath Your Voice is Nice Bro
Welcome
๐
@somber heath i ask a question
@somber heath What kind Of Job Do You Need ??
@somber heath What kind is You Become in your Dream To Real life
There is no doubt about it
nice
my Dream is i Become Biggest Man Of World
Richest
like Elon Musk
yha
i saw
YHa
i ask one more question ??
viscid pelican
i ask one more question ??
@somber heath
Do You Like To Help Poor People
Noo
Do You Like Your Perents
Nice
Do You Spend Time To Your Perents
You Are Merried
Whats Your Age
Ohk
๐
Nice
i daily 30min to spend time for meditation
its Really Effective
@somber heath ๐ฑ
7 time
Sorry my internet Too Slow
๐ Yha
if you like to accept my friend request to do or decline ohk
๐
Ok Nice to meet ya ill going to back tomorrow meet yOU ok @somber heath Bye
whole bear
@somber heath why don't you pose for a photograph too, for the front page
somber heath
<@!317279909112446976> why don't you pose for a photograph too, for the front pa...
Front page of what?
whole bear
Front page of what?
The magazine carrying your interview
whole bear
hey
undone idol
@whole bear i also got gmt 5:30 nice
whole bear
sup?
undone idol
good how about ya?
undone idol
from india?
whole bear
yeah
undone idol
learning ursina
cool
whole bear
you working on something new?
undone idol
I have never used ursina engine before
whole bear
my exams are going on
undone idol
fuck,
whole bear
and still here i am
undone idol
sad
whole bear
playing games
undone idol
nice.
whole bear
learning new modules
undone idol
you will get enough to get into next grade
guy.
I learned inbuilt first and then external libraries
hello hello
Blackwon't burn
fuck a ad came in my music
undone idol
a new screen woah!
little whale
yo
half portal
I just remembered u can just do this for formatting
print(f"The surface area of the cylinder is {surface_area:.1f} and The volume of the cylinder is: {volume:.1f}")
Instead of
print("The surface area of the cylinder is {surface_area:.1f} and The volume of the cylinder is: {volume:.1f}".format(surface_area=surface_area, volume=volume))
tho im not sure of the difference
frosty star
Which channel should I use for help with python packaging?
whole bear
greetings OpalMist
lime oyster
it always orange
whole bear
oh
i just noticed it
hey sorry can't talk
someone help
something's wrong with pycharm
i renamed the project name from the file explorer
and then nothing is running
can anyone help?
that red cross
i fixed it
yayy
i added a new configuration
candid isle
siuuuu lol
whole bear
and it worked
candid isle
need permision to unlock mic??? lol
somber heath
!voice
wise cargoBOT
candid isle
siuuuu lol
yea is cheering
siuuuu is the ronaldo's meme
LOL
PPPFFFAHAHAHAH
can i spam lol
i guess cannot spam
bcs is rule
*the rule say it
who is listening spotify??
whole bear
me
candid isle
damn fuck
whole bear
haha
candid isle
i so poor btw
so
i din't buy perium
i also din't buy netflix
i thinking how netflix is it
candid isle
hi @barren magnet
whole bear
hey .State
wise cargoBOT
whole bear
!voice
candid isle
haha lol
whole bear
Yes you can
candid isle
umm
barren magnet
I'm a python begginer
candid isle
i need to earn
whole bear
you can lol
candid isle
i need to saving money to buy a pc
whole bear
how old are you?
whole bear
okok
barren magnet
How old are you?
candid isle
How old are you?
u mean who?
whole bear
How old are you?
he just said 14
barren magnet
Ruggiero
barren magnet
?
candid isle
ehehehe
whole bear
did u have GF??
๐
candid isle
lol
whole bear
Yes, of course. ๐
whole bear
I am so ugly?
candid isle
I am so ugly?
no, i mean myself
whole bear
im working on a calculator like the windows 10 one
whole bear
no, i mean myself
Sorry for you man.
barren magnet
Ruggiero for how long are you coding?
candid isle
Sorry for you man.
ir's ok bro
whole bear
with the scientific calculator and stuff
whole bear
Ruggiero for how long are you coding?
6 years.
candid isle
Ruggiero for how long are you coding?
1 year
candid isle
i'm coding for 2 days
๐๐, coding is fun btw
whole bear
I really touched everything.
candid isle
who can tell me how to earn money at coding
candid isle
im younger than everyone here
WOW
barren magnet
who can tell me how to earn money at coding
You do something then you sell, easy
candid isle
You do something then you sell, easy
wdym??
whole bear
should i say?
candid isle
cuz
barren magnet
or create something people need
whole bear
11
candid isle
or create something people need
can u give an example, cuz my eng not good
hahah
soryr
*sprry
*sorry
whole bear
i started programming when i was 10
candid isle
i started programming when i was 10
wow
whole bear
around 2 years
candid isle
i want work at google, but not enough age and google din't use c++ i guess
they use phyton the most
barren magnet
i want work at google, but not enough age and google din't use c++ i guess
You can work, 1200000 people work there
candid isle
You can work, 1200000 people work there
but my age only 14
barren magnet
but my age only 14
Use it
candid isle
that means i've got the most advantage
lol
barren magnet
that means i've got the most advantage
Yes you do, you have a lot of time to learn, a lot of people wants it
barren magnet
did u work google? <@!768131557730287646>
No
candid isle
or u want to become google software engineer?
candid isle
No
oh
then what u want to work while u over 18??
i'm so sorry to asking so much question ๐ฆ
barren magnet
then what u want to work while u over 18??
If I want to continue with this, idk
barren magnet
You can't start with google
You need a lot of experience
Start with something smaller
candid isle
oh
whole bear
it may disturb them
shut hill
it may disturb them
Iโll do it for you. @midnight agate he wants to talk to you. @whole bear
I was just letting you know he wanted to talk to you lol
wind raptor
Hi
versed comet
What's your name
wind raptor
----------------^^^
wind raptor
Can you hear me?
pallid hazel
nice to meet you ----------------^^^
wind raptor
pallid hazel
----------------^^^ |
willow lynx
Hi
versed comet
Hi
somber heath
!voice
wise cargoBOT
barren ore
Hi i hope i can ask this here. I am trying to Run a VBA script that i wrote on an excel file that i want to be able to open from a program. Basically what i want to be able to do is select a file form my computer and open and run some scripts on it and then take the output and spit out a report. can python do that?
stuck furnace
Hey @pallid hazel ๐
@normal patio I don't actually have a microphone, so I'll send messages here 
!stream 685931501812187197
wise cargoBOT
โ @normal patio can now stream until <t:1645293837:f>.
stuck furnace
Alright
Hmmm ๐ค
What does 'manage app execution aliases' mean, do you know?
I'm here @normal patio ๐
Ah you have do not disturb on so you're not getting my pings
pallid hazel
? you rang ...
stuck furnace
Heyy ๐
Do you think you might be able to help this person with an issue they're having?
They have python installed on Windows, they have it in their path, but python isn't recognised as a command.
We're kind of out of ideas.
normal patio
Python was not found; run without arguments to install from the Microsoft Store, or disable this shortcut from Settings > Manage App Execution Aliases.
I installed it from the pyuthon website
Im confused now :/
I have the windows version installed yes
Windows 10 Desktop
Nope not at all
stuck furnace
Hmm, I guess they could try installing the one from the Windows store ๐คทโโ๏ธ
But I really don't understand what's going on.
misty cypress
: just an advice never install python from windows store
stuck furnace
: just an advice never install python from windows store
Yeah, I've heard there are issues, which is why I've been avoiding recommending it. Although I'm not on Windows to test it out.
normal patio
Thank god i checked before pressing it, but why?
stuck furnace
Hello @whole bear ๐
normal patio
Hey, they are tryibng to help me run python in terminal
misty cypress
i can help :
lets try :
in cmd type :
where.exe python
it will show location of dummy py.exe that windows ships
normal patio
C:\Users\Basil\AppData\Local\Microsoft\WindowsApps\python.exe
C:\Users\Basil\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\python.exe
stuck furnace
Ohhh maybe it's the order of the items in the PATH?
stuck furnace
Yea, I guess one is shadowing the other.
normal patio
delete 1st one
how?
misty cypress
i mean go to location of WindowsApps\python.exe
pallid hazel
C:\Users\USlocalhost\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\Lib\venv\scripts\nt
misty cypress
and delete it
misty cypress
ya you can do that in ur environment variable
stuck furnace
Or move the other path higher up the list?
normal patio
which of the two
misty cypress
Or move the other path higher up the list?
better
normal patio
Its not in my start menu no
stuck furnace
Can you move C:\Users\Basil\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310 to the top of the list?
misty cypress
C:\Users\Basil\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\python.exe
stuck furnace
C:\Users\Basil\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310\python.exe
Although the folder that contains the file rather than the file itself.
Restart the terminal and try again.
stuck furnace
The terminal inherits its environment variables when it starts.
What about just python --version?
๐
normal patio
OK THAT WORKED
misty cypress
cool
stuck furnace
That was a hard issue to track down
misty cypress
lol 
tulip carbon
how do i start
stuck furnace
I didn't realise Windows ships with a dummy python executable which tells you to install it from the store.
tulip carbon
learning cdoing
normal patio
Oof thank you guys
stuck furnace
Oh @tulip carbon check out our amazing resources page ๐
misty cypress
I didn't realise Windows ships with a dummy python executable which tells you to...
its a pain in my ass:
now i cant uninstall it
stuck furnace
!resources
wise cargoBOT
normal patio
@pallid hazel It got fixed by puting C:\Users\Basil\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python310 on the top of PATH
tulip carbon
ty dawgs
misty cypress
since i had a previous mistake :
its not showing in control panel ๐
normal patio
When im a bit more familiar with a PC in general ill try to use linux. I didnt have a pc until a year ago so im new to the whole thing
stuck furnace
I haven't had a chance to use WSL as I haven't used Windows in about 8 years
normal patio
Thanks for the help thought, now i can finally upload my project
stuck furnace
Actually, I have used it a couple of times on other people's computers.
stuck furnace
Thanks for the help thought, now i can finally upload my project
No prob ๐
Oh right ๐ค
Alright, thanks for your help, I gtg ๐
sand lark
nobody is in vcccc its never like this
gentle flint
@sand lark I am
vivid palm
@signal cave please make sure to read #voice-verification
signal cave
<@!926825784260325396> please make sure to read <#764802555427029012>
but i can speak
vivid palm
you can type, yes
regal bolt
hello, what do you doing
vivid palm
you won't be able to unmute until you voice verify (the instructions are in #voice-verification)
signal cave
i cancel the app jurisdiction
signal cave
you won't be able to unmute until you voice verify (the instructions are in <#76...
voice verify?does that need phone number
im chiness ,im not sure if my phone can use
vivid palm
no, basically it gives you this role:
and what that means is you'll be able to unmute when connected to voice chat
no phone # required
signal cave
let me try
vivid palm
you just have to meet some requirements (such as message count)
you meet most of the requirements, just not the message count. you have ~20. so just spend a day or so in our help channels or #python-discussion or #ot0-psvmโs-eternal-disapproval and you'll be able to verify sometime soon
don't spam or we'll prevent you from voice verifying for at least 2 weeks
signal cave
You are not currently eligible to use voice inside Python Discord for the following reasons:
โข You have sent less than 50 messages.
@vivid palmwhats it means i sent toomuch or too fewer
gentle flint
not enough
signal cave
ok
gentle flint
so you need more
vivid palm
yup
signal cave
i know
gentle flint
excellent
signal cave
...
gentle flint
I mean it's excellent that you know not excellent that it's the case
regal bolt
me too @signal cave the same situation
signal cave
server chat or p2p chat for 50
gentle flint
messages in the server
signal cave
me too <@!926825784260325396> the same situation
u want to help each other
with the people in the server is not included?
gentle flint
I mean
DMs can't be monitored by the bot
signal sand
He is a creator of haskell, he talks about problem with language design
signal sand
https://youtu.be/iSmkqocn0oQ
He is a creator of haskell, he talks about problem...
@molten pewter , @midnight agate
dusk quarry
I'm sorry about the intervention, I know it has nothing to do with what we're doing here. Can you give me some advice on how to learn English much better and much faster? Please answer me in writing if possible.
thank you! @midnight agate
whole bear
who in vc has had experience in selenium
pallid hazel
@midnight agate how's you dict skills?
dusk quarry
what does the dict instruction do?
signal sand
Code could be better...
if stuff not in sm_moves_dict:
continue # or do something
if sm_type not in sm_moves_dict[stuff]:
continue #or do something
if ap_freq in sm_moves_dict[stuff]:
sm_moves_dict[stuff]# ...... something ...
sturdy panther
May be we can give it to json.loads.
uncut meteor
thats a good idea too
molten pewter
be back, going for some dinner/lunch ๐
uncut meteor
!e
data = {
'PMP 450_20': {
'PMP 450': {
'5.15GHz':0,
'5.2 GHz':0,
'5.4 GHz':0,
'5.7 GHz':0
},
'PMP 450b High Gain': {
'5.15GHz':0,
'5.2 GHz':0,
'5.4 GHz':0,
'5.7 GHz':0
}
}
}
print(data)
@uncut meteor :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.
{'PMP 450_20': {'PMP 450': {'5.15GHz': 0, '5.2 GHz': 0, '5.4 GHz': 0, '5.7 GHz': 0}, 'PMP 450b High Gain': {'5.15GHz': 0, '5.2 GHz': 0, '5.4 GHz': 0, '5.7 GHz': 0}}}
new avatar
!e
from dataclasses import dataclass
@dataclass
class User:
name: str
fav_colour: str
griff = User("Griff", "Orange")
print(griff)
print(griff.__dict__)
@uncut meteor :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.
001 | User(name='Griff', fav_colour='Orange')
002 | {'name': 'Griff', 'fav_colour': 'Orange'}
to the moon ๐
terse needle
@zenith radish setq elcord-editor-icon 'emacs_material_icon)
wind raptor
Everyone is robot... Seems like a discord thing if it's everyone
devout heath
"mute with timeout" would be a great feature
how are you @midnight agate
just finished 2nd shift at dollar general
as they say "dogs are barking"
my feet are more hurt than someone tortured without protection of the geneva convention
dogs are barking is an american english eupphamism
yes standing for 12 hours, 6 yesterday, 6 today
I used to do this all the time, after 6 years on my ass my feet have gotten soft
gonna have to show my feet who's boss
perl has "use strict" "use warnings" and "use diagnostics"
I was the only person I ever knew who used "use diagnostics" on new software
more like "can you build us a tiny full stack app because our interview process doesn't actual filter out non-programmer liars otherwise"
@midnight agate you figure out those trade offs, hit me up chief
same boat here
every job posting is going to make you feel like that
what kind of people do you know that are already in programming?
networking, reference letters go a loooooong way
imposter syndrome is always a problem
roller coaster from "I'm god" to "oh god I'm mentally incapable"
no worries
that's hyperbole, exaggeration
I meant from "I'm a good engineer" to "I should rethink my entire career" is a pretty normal day of work as a programmer
if you don't have metrics to hit outside of your boss's appreciation of you this becomes a problem rapidly
grunt work
yes
yeah
I started yesterday @whole bear
devout heath
my feet are more hurt than someone tortured without protection of the geneva con...
this
because the people hiring "computer geniuses" are fucking assholes
because software engineering doesn't actually fit into "engineering" proper
in my entire life, I've applied to ~20 jobs, got ~10
more than 5 of the jobs I didn't get were software
I am so insanely lucky
but most were grunt work
theme park, mcdonald's, walmart, delivering flowers
pallid hazel
@uncut meteor and @midnight agate although I did not move to class or dataclass.. I did fix the dict ๐
devout heath
@midnight agate Networking is key
theme park was horrible. mean bitch who owned the park would wander around yelling at people, I got wrath day 1
I wasn't in my part of the park
or doing my role
only software jobs I got were where I already had a foot in the door
first software job came from the delivering flowers
second from first job, third, then the fourth was through a buddy in CS from uni
all of my jobs in software I got through networking
it shouldn't work but it absolutely does
everyone who's hiring is trying to get a thorough idea of who you are outside of interviews, if they've already hired your friend they know that you're "of a feather" like "birds of a feather flock together"
bootcamp would be harder to sell to employers
but it's also a solid bit cheaper
but it can also be harder
tradeoffs as far as the eye can see
I loved college, would love to go back
just so that I can know I'm not the smartest person in the room (which is not a flex, because that's not where I want to be, I want to be learning, forever)
nobody calls your parents if you don't show up to class
this is not childhood
going to university is arguably making a decision entirely about "taking your life into your own hands"
you're risking debt to learn a high paid skill
they take it to the time before it was electrical: discrete math
it's an extraordinary claim to say that skipping college rather than going is a waste and this viewpoint has no extraordinary proof to meet the burden, for sure
yeah, it is a deferral of working for some people
but a staggering number of my peers had full time jobs
there's gen ed requirements in most degrees
lyric pawn
Marco Antonio is a good man... I would hire him.
pallid hazel
@midnight agate dont worry, im sure i'll have another chance for you to get a coin
devout heath
when I was in college, a large number of the other students in engineering already had lives, families, and full time jobs
they were people returning to school because they realized they had fucked up lmao
@uncut meteor crack 20k quid mate?
nice
deft bobcat
going to college vs work isnt a binary outcome or path. Individuals have different experiences
lyric pawn
@uncut meteor i smell cap
i feel like america is cheaper than the Uk
uk get taxed on everything
thats why healthcare is free over there
it was partial truth
devout heath
yes
lyric pawn
the biggest truth is certain places are cheaper than other places
like you said silicon valley is expensive to live in...
devout heath
why
uncut meteor
like you said silicon valley is expensive to live in...
is it not?
devout heath
you're mic is failing at the worst time
uncut meteor
so what was "cap"
devout heath
DM me boss
lyric pawn
overall though, i think its cheaper to live in the usa than the uk
devout heath
I cannot hear you
lyric pawn
but obviously certain places are going to be more expensive, cali living or living in london
uncut meteor
overall though, i think its cheaper to live in the usa than the uk
i'd have no idea, on a full country comparison.
lyric pawn
i'd have no idea, on a full country comparison.
thats just my thought
think of the general things in the us @uncut meteor
think what 5 dollars of food costs there, vs what you can get in the uk
then think of other things like utility bills everything...
i think everything is slightly cheaper
uncut meteor
idk what $5 can get you 
, I don't live there
lyric pawn
idk what $5 can get you <:kek:594643029994897408> , I don't live there
use your imagination griff
you act like youve never watched tv
uncut meteor
the only thing I've been exposed to is people talking about the job / wage climate in software based areas.
sturdy panther
$5 can get you $4.99!
terse needle
gurren lagann
devout heath
sub > dub
lyric pawn
brb
sturdy panther
!e
print("sub" > "dub")
@sturdy panther :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.
True
cunning lake
!e def
wise cargoBOT
@cunning lake :x: Your eval job has completed with return code 1.
001 | File "<string>", line 1
002 | def
003 | ^
004 | SyntaxError: invalid syntax
no
do not use phone at grunt job
feets hurt so much have to keep moving or will keel over
!e print(type(0))
wise cargoBOT
@devout heath :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.
<class 'int'>
!e print(type(0.0))
wise cargoBOT
@devout heath :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.
<class 'float'>
!e
print(type(type))
wise cargoBOT
@pallid hazel :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.
<class 'type'>
what?
are you on a treadmill?
devout heath
!e print(type(type(None)))
wise cargoBOT
@devout heath :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.
<class 'type'>
no it's a store where you have to be stocking if there's nobody at the register
have to do all the things
if you stand still your feet hurt the most
pallid hazel
each and everything
terse needle
:ok
whole bear
@devout heath alright
terse needle
def x(:ok), :do IO.puts "OK!"
def x(:err), :do IO.puts "error!"
def x(_), :do IO.puts "huh"
x(:ok)
def x(:ok), :do IO.puts "OK!"
def x(:err), :do IO.puts "error!"
x(:something)
@remote jacinth I am gopher shill
I still do some automation in python
if it's more than a couple hundred lines of simple stuff then go provides simpler overall structure
clearer typing
easy testing
if you follow these conventions https://go.dev/doc/effective_go I would argue you're unlikely to face the same kinds of opportunities to make bad design decisions
which is insanely important if you can't refactor
terse needle
same idea in haskell
data MyEnum = X | Y
my_func :: MyEnum -> Int
my_func X = 12
my_func Y = 2
my_func X -- Returns 12
I hate exceptions
I feel returning errors is the clearest solution
I hate bash so much
so inconsistent
if? fi.
while? not elihw, no. done
terse needle
rip
devout heath
I think everyone should pick 1 language from 60's, 1 from 80's and one from '00s
uncut meteor
you could create a decorator for it, but that is straying from builtins
devout heath
I learned the most from C, Perl and Go
remote jacinth
I think everyone should pick 1 language from 60's, 1 from 80's and one from '00s
lmao right on
remote jacinth
I hate bash so much
also bash is useful for small stuff tbh
uncut meteor
!e
from enum import Enum
from functools import singledispatch
from typing import Literal
class MyEnum(Enum):
X = 0
Y = 1
@singledispatch
def my_func(val: MyEnum) -> int:
...
@my_func.register(Literal[MyEnum.X])
def my_func(val) -> int:
return 12
@my_func.register(Literal[MyEnum.Y])
def my_func(val) -> int:
return 2
print(my_func(MyEnum.X))
@uncut meteor :x: Your eval job has completed with return code 1.
001 | Traceback (most recent call last):
002 | File "<string>", line 14, in <module>
003 | File "/usr/local/lib/python3.10/functools.py", line 862, in register
004 | raise TypeError(
005 | TypeError: Invalid first argument to `register()`: typing.Literal[<MyEnum.X: 0>]. Use either `@register(some_class)` or plain `@register` on an annotated function.
like Perl, which was arguably created to compete with *bash
remote jacinth
it just screams "command line hax" very loudly compared to other languages
i mean yeah, i feel like each language has its niche and bash's simply is CLI automation
remote jacinth
so that's what I use it for, same as powershell
cuz it's integrated and native
you know, good enough for me
remote jacinth
sometimes even python feels like too much of a programming language for the task
devout heath
and I'm a grumpy old man
remote jacinth
i get that... so much
devout heath
yeah sometimes python is overkill, like I enjoy the bash in my simple makefiles
remote jacinth
what is your demarcation line for go and python?
I've been struggling with that lately
devout heath
if I want something that looks like OOP I abandon python
remote jacinth
I love Go but not sure if it's justified to use it for small stuff that gets data from a shell, parses it and sends it to the next program..
devout heath
I really really hate OOP. I'm grinding a diamond axe over it
remote jacinth
OOP is an abomination ngl
but sometimes very useful
I do OOP in Python cuz I am used to it but prefer not to
devout heath
if you're doing philosophy it's great
if you exist in the real world data boundaries define your architecture, full stop
Go also only uses structs, receiver methods and interfaces that match to types via "duck typing"
there's also a hack
var _ interfaceType = structType{}
that makes the compiler enforce interface implementation
rust and go and other languages have the unsafe keyword
and it does get used when developers know more than the compiler
and for c interop
pointer math...
uncut meteor
time to wrap my entire code with unsafe
devout heath
it's got dynamic typing though, doesn't it?
I mean, it's got some drawbacks and there are real questions about if it'll fly
but C and C++ are always the attack surface when a big 0 day is found
terse needle
devout heath
eh, jmp is basically goto
assembly is just really easy to fuck up and hard to put logic into
terse needle
same idea in haskell
```hs
data MyEnum = X | Y
my_func :: MyEnum -> Int
my_func...
@remote jacinth
devout heath
the problem with purely functional languages is that they don't really provide for optimization aside from making your own lisp for whatever
there's no break when you've hit what you wanted in a loop without hax
I don't know any purely functional languages
I've only used F# in college
python and go are both great for one big overlapping reason
they both stop you from having to think about implementation so you can focus on architecture/design
you need to more tightly define what you're doing
do you know how to profile your code?
"quickly as possible" is a funny target
do you mean faster to develop?
or execute?
well then go is an easy choice if you're not doing something that's almost entirely handled by c++ inside a python library
python can be faster than go in some cases though, it depends on what your data is.
these worker pools are really easy to create in go
but in go they're faster because goroutines are primitives that only add to space complexity most of the time
remote jacinth
checkMK
remote jacinth
but in go they're faster because goroutines are primitives that only add to spac...
goroutines are bae
devout heath
one thing that's really important: what do other people who might want to keep working on this use?
do they already know go?
go is easy to learn, but it is a real paradigm shift
unreal anvil
thoughts on rust
unreal anvil
i believe it, lots of type safety
devout heath
faster than go, but also slower compilation by a good bit and compilation optimization is not a thing in go
unreal anvil
we should integrate rust tokio with cython
brave steppe
def _set_asyncio_result(future: asyncio.Future) -> Callable[[Future], None]:
def inner(fut: Future) -> None:
future.set_result(fut.result())
class MyAsyncThreadPool:
def __init__(self) -> None:
self._pool = ThreadPoolExecitor()
def _submit(self, func, *, *args, **kwargs):
fut = self._pool.submit(func, *args, **kwargs)
afut = asyncio.Future()
fut.add_done_callback(_set_asyncio_result(afut))
return afut
async def submit(self, func, *, *args, **kwargs):
return await self._submit(func, *args, **kwargs)
๐ฏ
brave steppe
```python
def _set_asyncio_result(future: asyncio.Future) -> Callable[[Future], ...
Easy asynchronous thread pool from within asyncio tasks
devout heath
ah yeah c interop stuff blows
lots of wheels get reinvented in go
c++ devs see red over it
some stuff is slower because of how go's runtime handles things, but I like being able to read all the code I depend on
sue me ๐
everything written in c/c++ right now would be served well by a rust replacement
unreal anvil
tons of blockchain jobs are asking for rust
brave steppe
Blockchains O_o
devout heath
crypto is utlra-mega-super-sketch
coffeezilla on youtube
folding idea's recent video "Line goes up" is so eye opening
unreal anvil
basically ethereum is a turning complete decentralized database
remote jacinth
unreal anvil
crypto is utlra-mega-super-sketch
this is also very true ha
this is a cool article on dropbox's experience rewriting components with rust: https://dropbox.tech/infrastructure/rewriting-the-heart-of-our-sync-engine
devout heath
discord could have switched to nightly builds of go
they decided against it
but then went with nightly builds of rust
idiots
it's a good article
for people who didn't know that the GC in go is not reference counting it is globe stopping
but they very well could have used more zero-allocation message passing designs
go stops the entire app execution to count references to allocated memory
deletes thing with 0 references
it's just one approach to it
brave steppe
go stops the entire app execution to count references to allocated memory
Java-style ๐
devout heath
pretty sure lots of things use reference counting
but rust makes you think about it and implement it correctly
always the fastest way
I've never implemented that myself
there is at the end of the day some amount of allocation
sorry it's called zero-copy
@remote jacinth .env files +.gitignore entry + parse .env library + os.getEnv() type function go Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
shit I'm a decade older than both of you
I remember 9/11 ๐ฆ
brave steppe
lol
devout heath
yes
and if they switched to nightly there was already a fix iirc
but they decided to take their own fate and migrate to rust
probably could because microservices
and then they switched to nightly anyway, again, iirc
It was probably a better choice yes
my real problem: where the fuck is the code
they're not showing it
so how do we not they're not lying?
exactly
so they just yell shit from their ivory tower?
fuck that guy
ye
I'm hard copyleft
like I โค๏ธ AGPL 3.0
lol
yes you can
that's a misconception
but what do you care
you don't understand the license
unreal anvil
i feel like it's hard to start a business if youre entire idea and IP is code, then someone with more funding can come along and deploy your project
devout heath
I have a library in go for checking the entropy and appearance of passwords in a list of frequent passwords
if it gets used people don't have to share their source using it
as I understand it, only if they modify it, even if they're only hosting it, they have to share the code
brave steppe
A system incorporating a GPL-covered program is an extended version of that program. The GPL says that any extended version of the program must be released under the GPL if it is released at all. This is for two reasons: to make sure that users who get the software get the freedom they should have, and to encourage people to give back improvements that they make.
devout heath
google is afraid to have modified code in their codebase without having distributed it under the rules
great news is gpl libraries get to use all other code
unreal anvil
openstreetmaps does that I think
they have closed source bundlers of open map tiles, which they sell
devout heath
GPL does not trigger the disclosure if you modify the code behind a network boundary
AGPL is a modification that does
and GPL does strong-arm other code into copyleft
brave steppe
Unlike the first case, where the library implements an ethically superior standard, here adoption for its own sake will not accomplish any special objective goal, so there's no reason to avoid copyleft entirely. However, if you require developers who use your library to release their whole programs under copyleft, they'll simply use one of the alternatives available, and that won't advance our cause either. The Lesser GPL was designed to fill the middle ground between these cases, allowing proprietary software developers to use the covered library, but providing a weak copyleft that gives users freedom regarding the library code itself.
devout heath
but then again, it's my code.
so I get paid in you do what I say
right
I also use MIT
CC-BY-SA
unreal anvil
I do really like MIT
devout heath
it's great for what it should be used for
remote jacinth
MIT is cool ye
quasi condor
MIT makes the most sense for anyone who isn't literally a SASS company
devout heath
You can also literally just type out your own license
or use a generator
I have specific reasons related to what the library I'm using AGPL for does.
this is why you should care about licenses
I can read 90+% of my operating system because Ubuntu
windows is stupid
we should stop this madness
unreal anvil
does the license not protect against code minimizing?
yeah
i mean obfuscating code. like every function of your source code is releasted as a version that has every function name changed to a, b, c
released*
haha but the license lets you..
idk
i bet it does
you release your own code under the AGPL license, but your code is minimized
then you can use agpl without giving up your real source code
doesn't matter lol it's probably still not allowed
devout heath
minification does nothing to hide what your code does
you can minify gpl code but you have to offer the original
your code would have to be a derivative work
something that simply calls into the code is not a derivative work
brave steppe
> A system incorporating a GPL-covered program is an extended version of that pr...
No? ^
devout heath
there are derivations of code that trigger the clause and calls into the code or include of the gpl that do not trigger the clause forcing your code to be gpl'ed
unreal anvil
isn't .net different from dotnetcore
django forces you to use its design ideas, but flask gives you complete freedom, on that topic
I have to build airgapped programs,s o I don't get to use the cloud ๐ฆ
I primarily develop electron applications. They're pretty sweet, but they are super memory intensive
developing the UI is the slow part, and it's very fast with web development technologies
the community support sells it for me
wasm + electron
what was the question exactly
oh yeah, so electron is basically a web application with access to the operating system. then you can make a backend with whatever you want
honestly a simple web application is probably all you need for simple applications. electron is only useful for operating system calls
there's tons of libraries for integrating with backends. http requests, web sockets, tcp sockets, udp sockets, open serial ports, whatever you want
yeah can create interprocess communication stuff, so whatever extra code you write with things like rust, it does run in a separate process from the electron app, so you have that bottleneck
there's that gaming browser, idk if that uses wasm, but it seems like a potentially popular use case
for that use case, I would just use a web application with vite, and then aiohttp to communicate with your python application
i agree, wasm is like blockchain hype
Opera GX is what I'm thinking of
it's a rapid web development build tool
vue?
it sounds like React Native
quasi condor
web view
unreal anvil
it sounds like it lets you put web apps in native apps
brave steppe
Web containers is where it's at ๐ฏ https://blog.stackblitz.com/posts/introducing-webcontainers/
quasi condor
it's a browser API that OSs implement to give app developers access to a browser
such that it doesn't matter what browser things get rendered in
unreal anvil
it's a nodejs environment sandboxed in your browser i think
for remote development from the browser?
devout heath
web frameworks make me seasick
unreal anvil
they say full stack engineers are no more because web tech is so complicated
devout heath
nah, my vanilla.js brethren out there
that's why you gotta separate your services from the frontend somehow
so that you don't worry about server side rendering
unreal anvil
ssr is for seo
devout heath
somewhere, sometime, everyone forgot that's what JS is for
quasi condor
In fact, Vanilla JS is already used on more websites than jQuery, Prototype JS, MooTools, YUI, and Google Web Toolkit - combined.
I like it
devout heath
you gotta pronounce it "gooeeey"
quasi condor
.xkcd standards
viscid lagoonBOT
quasi condor
.xkcd 927
viscid lagoonBOT
devout heath
enemy of a great solution is a good enough existing standard
js is still here
it's not bad it's just insanely annoying I think
unreal anvil
there's no incentive to rebuild your infrastructure if it works
devout heath
uhhhh if you can't find anyone to work on it that sounds like a real problem
unreal anvil
whats with php, i thought that was dead
quasi condor
quasi condor
uhhhh if you can't find anyone to work on it that sounds like a real problem
a competent developer can pick up any language. Cobol isn't an inherently uber complex language
devout heath
no I never said it was
people just don't like learning old shit to work on code other people can't keep up with
remote jacinth
uhhhh if you can't find anyone to work on it that sounds like a real problem
lol :D
quasi condor
sure - so in that case, the lack of COBOL developers is an economic not a technological one
devout heath
basically a wall of red flags
remote jacinth
somewhere, sometime, everyone forgot that's what JS is for
LMAO
quasi condor
the point that article makes (in a better way than I can make it) is that old shit code is shit because it's grown to encompass 30years of edge cases
devout heath
I mean, es6 stuff is not old school
quasi condor
any attempt to rewrite it is destined to run into many of those edge cases as well
devout heath
I am absconding everyone using out of date browsers
quasi condor
so the shitness is just a function of the complexity of the world
devout heath
but fuck 'em, ya know?
unreal anvil
yeah that's true lol
somber heath
I think the closest I may ever come to learning COBOL is seeing a code example in passing.
devout heath
I mean, if someone knocked on my door and offered me 150k yr for remote cobol work I would figure out how to cope
but I really really really hated CL and RPG and we didn't get to COBOL in my legacy class
quasi condor
TOTAL = REAL(NINT(EARN * TAX * 100.0))/100.0
users of COBOL could write the same command as:
MULTIPLY EARNINGS BY TAXRATE GIVING SOCIAL-SECUR ROUNDED.
As you can tell from the COBOL version, but probably not from the FORTRAN version, this line of code is a (simplified) example of how both languages could compute a social security payment and round the total to the penny. Because it was designed not just to be written but also to be read, COBOL would make computerized business processes more legible, both for the original programmers and managers and for those who maintained these systems long afterwards.
Cobol was originally designed to be written by people thinking in terms of business
devout heath
have you ever listened to the C-suites talk?
they're playing buzzword bingo
SaaS has them creaming their pants
so dumb. 80 SaaS systems being used at a given fortune 500 company on average, iirc
so scattered, it's all just horrifying integrations
arctic ledge
wind raptor
Not just you
arctic ledge
I have been having issues with the VCs on this discord all day
My other servers are fine. It usually passes
unreal anvil
looks dead haha I don't know anything that can beat the LLVM speeds
devout heath
ergo qwerty acceptable
am bad at motor controls but still type ~70wpm
Colemak mod dh is supposed to be great for removing "bigrams" where you use the same hand twice?
unreal anvil
where do you practice? typeracer?
remote jacinth
monkeytype, typing academy
devout heath
how do I train my left pinky to hit tab faster for intellisense?
unreal anvil
there's a death mode for typeracer
typeracer does that, random quotes
i can't find keybur
devout heath
that's a really good idea
force developers to learn where all the symbols are at
like ^
devout heath
I will forever have a numpad
too many numbers in computing
and filling out forms
pins
unreal anvil
i have lots of different types of keyboards at work since my it sends me a different type every time i ask for one
devout heath
but can you walk up to a staggered board and just use it?
unreal anvil
and you get 105 with that haha
remote jacinth
devout heath
I've always used ergo qwerty membranes and huff copium
only switch would be to ortholinear split for mech
STOP IT
use a split so that you stop
way too easy to stop when you can no longer reach them
I use logitech K860
and mx master 3 mouse
unreal anvil
i personally prefer carpotunnel
devout heath
my mouse is worth more than my screen
best investment ever
I have an old AOC
I lied. screen is still $2 more
remote jacinth
pallid hazel
prolly uses it cause he plays the golf game at the bar..
unreal anvil
they make gaming controllers with track balls what
devout heath
man what are you talking about
I always hit the trees
dude this game is so old
it's like flappy bird to a great extent
just dodge shit over and over
with diminishing returns on the controls around a central point
did you get eaten by a yeti?
man vscode gang
unreal anvil
I love gitlens
remote jacinth
just dodge shit over and over
haha okk
remote jacinth
did you get eaten by a yeti?
yee
unreal anvil
vscode + vim + crappy computer. I've lost entire file's changes 3 times in teh past 2 years
devout heath
commit often on your own branch
so you don't trigger CI
commit and push*
I've learned too many things the hard way
unreal anvil
nah, like it happens even if i do that
like a find and replace, search and rename a variable and a few other things, and it's gone
unreal anvil
i did learn to push often like you said
c++ doesn't have a refactor tool
it sucks
unreal anvil
haha, my team has an insane c++ library 20+ years in the making
plus, we'd use rust over go
unreal anvil
yeah, 100% and we do insane mathematical computations
unreal anvil
I wish man haha
devout heath
@arctic ledge discrete math?
unreal anvil
I was originally a math major, but I chose software
devout heath
boolean algebra though
do you know about some of the optimization like kmaps?
karnaugh complete madman
borks my brain
I believe you can do it
probably coast through
but welcome to planet x := x + 1
remote jacinth
but welcome to planet x := x + 1
undeclared variable :(
devout heath
ret conned
unreal anvil
3blue1brown is a super dope math channel
unreal anvil
some symbolic language
functional programming might, it'd create an object, not do an assignment
devout heath
!e
x = x+1
print(x)
wise cargoBOT
@devout heath :x: Your eval job has completed with return code 1.
001 | Traceback (most recent call last):
002 | File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
003 | NameError: name 'x' is not defined
ye
unreal anvil
were you gonna reference the e^i*pi video?
remote jacinth
!e
wise cargoBOT
Command Help
remote jacinth
!e
print('ee')