voice-chat-text-0

[vocal basin]

communism

I use Linux to play Forza Horizon 5

thanks Microsoft

[rich plover]

@lilac hill linux is a kernal

[vocal basin]

kernel

[rich plover]

@lilac hill I can run linux on potato

[vocal basin]

@peak depot different kernel

OS kernel not Jupyter kernel

[peak depot]

Ah ok

[vocal basin]

I prefer correct analysis, so no

[rich plover]

@lilac hill the kernel is the computer’s core that helps all parts and programs work together smoothly.

It's basically a piece of software

[vocal basin]

OS kernel is the thing that runs in the privileged context

ring 0

[lilac hill]

cool cool so Linux is light and offers access to open source scripts and apps?

thats the leverage it has on windows?

[rich plover]

kinda

[vocal basin]

Windows supports large parts of the same ABI that Linux applications expect

[rich plover]

@lilac hill The kernel is the core part of an operating system that manages hardware and software communication and controls system resources. got it?

[vocal basin]

illumos does a similar thing too

[vocal basin]

kernel and drivers running within its context of execution

[rich plover]

@peak depot He's so cute

reminds of mine

I lost mine last year🙁

[peak depot]

Sorry to hear that

[rich plover]

i still can't join vc

[rich plover]

@peak depot cat mom

[peak depot]

Yes

[obsidian dragon]

call

[wise loom]

AWS CEO says using AI to replace junior staff is 'Dumbest thing I've ever heard'
-- https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/21/aws_ceo_entry_level_jobs_opinion/

[primal shadow]

Too bad Amazon's CEO says https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0q2v851k9o

Glad someone in the hierarchy still has their brain, but the closer you get to the top, the more you have to trade greed for logic

[whole bear]

hey

[upbeat bobcat]

Hey!

[karmic oak]

yo

@upbeat bobcat

do you know how to start a website?

[upbeat bobcat]

Hey

[upbeat bobcat]

Wdym by starting a website?

[karmic oak]

im trying to make a website as a practice project but idk if i got the right tools downloaded

i got python and vs

[upbeat bobcat]

You should ask here #web-development

[karmic oak]

hey got any tips for a starter like me?

[upbeat bobcat]

I don't know web development so no.

[karmic oak]

ok

[upbeat bobcat]

Ask in this channel someone will help you.

[karmic oak]

im trying to practice so then i can eventually make an ai

[upbeat bobcat]

ah nice!

[karmic oak]

how long you think it will take to learn python from scratch

random guess

ok sick

sweet bro thanks

do you know on a scale on 1 to 10 on how hard to make an ai

i want an assistant

say i want info on somthing or i want it to help with my work

like a wingman xd

there isnt a preset? i can copy chat gpt for e.g and make it my own

no

oh like prompts

yeah i want my own

so basicaly impossible unless you rich

[vocal basin]

@dry jasper probably TB not GB

[karmic oak]

ahh i see so i have to make an ai for just 1 topic so its doable

[candid spire]

Hello 👋🤗😁😊😃🤗🤗

[karmic oak]

hi

[candid spire]

I got a curiosity

[vocal basin]

there are things like this
https://github.com/karpathy/minGPT

[candid spire]

my curiosity had a question

[vocal basin]

which re-implement older models through newer means

[karmic oak]

do you have a recomended source of learning or it doesnt matter

[vocal basin]

older, weaker models are getting cheap enough

[karmic oak]

its me and my friend

oh ok

[vocal basin]

my view of what qualifies as an LLM is kind of similar to what qualifies as big data

big data: cannot fit on the current machine
LLM: training data cannot fit on the current machine

[candid spire]

Is it bad if taking a dump feels more relaxing compared to masturbation

Am I gay?

[vocal basin]

out of scope for this server

[karmic oak]

i want one to help me with work, for the stock market

or with buisnesses

[candid spire]

Okay, I wish I could know why

[dry jasper]

did you had your socks on?

[karmic oak]

bro

[vocal basin]

(while there is a discussion to be had there, this is not server-appropriate)

[karmic oak]

do any of yall know how to start up a website

[vocal basin]

https://github.com/karpathy/nanoGPT

seemingly more up-to-date

[vocal basin]

docker run nginx

[candid spire]

Yes

[dry jasper]

than not

[karmic oak]

animo, ill pay you 1t sheckels every 15 mins you mentor me

take it or leave it

[gaunt plover]

Yes yes

[karmic oak]

🙁

[karmic oak]

im stuck bro can you help me

[vocal basin]

!rule 9

[wise cargo]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[karmic oak]

sheckels on grow a garden

oh mb

[gaunt plover]

Why not? what are you working on?

[karmic oak]

im trying to make a website and stuff i dont get why its not working

[vocal basin]

where is it hosted?

[karmic oak]

idk

[vocal basin]

is it a static website?

what are you writing it in?

[karmic oak]

python

[vocal basin]

which server library?

FastAPI?

[karmic oak]

no clue

xd

from flask import Flask

app = Flask(name)

@app.route("/")
def home():
return "Hello, World! My first website in Python 🎉"

if name == "main":
app.run(debug=True)

i pasted this in vs

[vocal basin]

!code

[wise cargo]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[gaunt plover]

Flask!

[vocal basin]

how are you running it?

[karmic oak]

idk

[vocal basin]

which terminal command

so you didn't start it?

[karmic oak]

i installed flast

[vocal basin]

what are you doing to run your program?

[karmic oak]

the error is i did some steps but now i dont know what step im stuck on

[gaunt plover]

Watch some YT vidoes, you are starting now

[karmic oak]

idk

[vocal basin]

so, you never started the program, right?

[karmic oak]

yea

[vocal basin]

if you're using VSCode,
it has an integrated terminal

[gaunt plover]

Even if you run that code, it's backend devlopement server, you don't get to see anything

[vocal basin]

there you can run python main.py (or whatever your file is named)

[karmic oak]

i did

[vocal basin]

it is expected to at least return the text message

[vocal basin]

http://127.0.0.1:3000

iirc that is the default port

[karmic oak]

guys dont hack me

[vocal basin]

py app.py

[candid spire]

He may have installed

[vocal basin]

does it return the same error?

[candid spire]

But it must be not accessible

[karmic oak]

this is python

[vocal basin]

run this in that terminal

in VSCode

(in the same directory as app.py)

[vocal basin]

.

[candid spire]

I guess he is afk

[vocal basin]

http://127.0.0.1:5000

[karmic oak]

ohhhhh

its working!!

lets goooo

[vocal basin]

py is the Windows default for using Python

[karmic oak]

thank you so much

[candid spire]

Hmm

[karmic oak]

did i leak any sensitive info in thoes ss?

just being carful

[vocal basin]

only username

[karmic oak]

oh ok not bad

[candid spire]

No John

[karmic oak]

https://tenor.com/view/serkan-kerem-shy-embarrassed-bursin-gif-19928780

[candid spire]

What do you intend to do?

Learn flask?

[karmic oak]

im doing a practice project with a friend we both wanna make an ai and learn python

so im just practice untill we know what we are doing

[candid spire]

Hmm

Good luck John

[karmic oak]

thanks

[candid spire]

Mention not John

[dry jasper]

AND HIS NAME IS..........

[candid spire]

John fudge

[dry jasper]

https://youtu.be/Stx9VHYnJI4

[karmic oak]

guys if i master python what can i do

[candid spire]

You can brag about it

[dry jasper]

the world is your oyster

[karmic oak]

https://tenor.com/view/disappointment-gif-21343121

can i hack can i make tools cmon

[dry jasper]

you can do ML/AI if you lear it, you can do data analysist and data science if you want

[karmic oak]

can i make games?

[dry jasper]

or general bring ideas quick to live

yes but only 2D games

[vocal basin]

!pypi arcade

[wise cargo]

arcade v3.3.2

Arcade Game Development Library

Released on <t:1751591377:D>.

[vocal basin]

!pypi ursina

[wise cargo]

ursina v8.1.1

An easy to use game engine/framework for python.

Released on <t:1753878830:D>.

[dry jasper]

3d will be bad

[vocal basin]

https://www.ursinaengine.org/

[candid spire]

World is your john, you can make world

[karmic oak]

so basicaly python is trash

[vocal basin]

python_is_trash
with underscores

[dry jasper]

ey ey

chill down

[karmic oak]

xd

bruh...

[candid spire]

Depends on user

User trash = python trash

[karmic oak]

i want to make cool things

[vocal basin]

the one and only https://www.youtube.com/@python_is_trash

[candid spire]

You have to be cool to make cool things

[dry jasper]

python is the perfect language to bring ideas quickly to live and test them

[karmic oak]

https://tenor.com/view/sadhamstergirl-gif-4231717927828306245

[dry jasper]

also python is very good it integrate with other technologies

[karmic oak]

what do you mean

quickly to live? what does that mean

[candid spire]

Meet Animmo trusted python customer

[vocal basin]

for extremely rapid integration of random things and prototyping I now find Rust a bit easier for me than Python

[dry jasper]

you have a idea and you build it quickly to the point that it works

[vocal basin]

packaging in Python is a large disadvantage compared to Rust still

at least it's not as painful as with C++

Python is quite good at making easier-to-work-with interfaces on top of C

that's how all the AI/ML/CV stuff exists

[candid spire]

Check it out

You will find what it mean

[karmic oak]

aparently python is the best language to learn first because it will be easier to branch off into other languages

[candid spire]

Debatable

[karmic oak]

chat gpt told me

[vocal basin]

I learned Python alongside C#, C and C++ initially

[candid spire]

I think it is but certainly an alternative exists

Like Java

[vocal basin]

Java is quite bad for actually learning programming

more so learning specifics of Java

it is moving towards the right direction

but very slowly

[candid spire]

I think it is the best language to learn about OOPs concepts

[vocal basin]

very specific flavour of OOP

which it shares with C#

(since C# is derived from it)

the original patterns book was SmallTalk and C++ not Java

[candid spire]

Hmm

[vocal basin]

Java is a bad implementation of an okay model

on top of a great runtime

[candid spire]

Most of the fellows choose c++ as first language

[karmic oak]

next time you see me guys im going to be 1# hacker/programer/goat/cool

[vocal basin]

Java and C++ share some characteristics of why they're bad for learning

[karmic oak]

watch the news carefuly

[vocal basin]

(and for most issues Java has, C++ has them at an even greater level)

[primal shadow]

https://tenor.com/bNFBJ.gif

[vocal basin]

verbosity, complicated packaging and build systems, and the general "getting used to code being bad because the language makes it so"

[candid spire]

Most likely not but,
Best wishes to you!

[vocal basin]

(both languages, thankfully, do fix those problems)

[karmic oak]

thank you

[candid spire]

How come java is used so often?

[vocal basin]

unrelated to language quality

completely disconnected metrics

[candid spire]

I'm just curious to know

[vocal basin]

Java had an actual marketing budget

so we're dealing with consequences of that

at least Java is kind of "dull but works"

[karmic oak]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IrDQxj5tT6wTnQc3GOsSSl26FVP5kTrJ5mr6IH1B0nA/edit?usp=sharing

[vocal basin]

unlike C++ which is actively harmful at times

for sharing text files I highly recommend using GitHub Gists or GitLab Snippets instead of Google Doc

most simple things are easier to typeset in Markdown compared to doc(x) files

also has revision control

[candid spire]

To be honest

His plan is clique

[vocal basin]

did you mean cliché?

[candid spire]

Yeah

I'm dumb

[candid spire]

I would focus on problem solving first, language later

CS50 is a good introduction to programming

Nvm

[karmic oak]

im taking you advise into consideration as i move foward with my plan

[candid spire]

Pls don't.

Do what you like

[karmic oak]

ill keep it in mind nothing wrong with that

[candid spire]

believe no one

[candid spire]

I'm the wrong person to ask advice

[karmic oak]

no

you r the goat

i will listen

[candid spire]

I guess nedbat would be the right person to ask advice

He is experienced

[whole bear]

@karmic oak I got resource..
would you like to learn from it?

[karmic oak]

sure

[whole bear]

a minute pls

For Math:
https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.042/spring18/mcs.pdf

For Python:
https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html

[upper basin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tBAzGFuDWU

[whole bear]

@karmic oak

Mention not!

[karmic oak]

thanks im looking at it right now

[whole bear]

hey

There are many more MIT resource for programming

make sure to have a look at those resource

Focus on problem solving

[dry jasper]

https://youtu.be/MQ8DS2lO8ys

@upper basin

[stray pewter]

guys can yall rate my website

[whole bear]

yep

[stray pewter]

http://localhost:5173/

[vocal basin]

vite

[somber heath]

https://tenor.com/view/hah-righttt-yeah-right-whatever-you-say-ok-gif-16175049

[whole bear]

use vercel

[stray pewter]

IM KIDDING

lol

[vocal basin]

vite is so great for proxying, it turns out

[stray pewter]

im stupid just not that stupid

[vocal basin]

just works

mostly

when the stars align

[whole bear]

Such a lame joke

[vocal basin]

at least we know what bundler it uses

[whole bear]

I was excited to rate your site

[stray pewter]

lol

:3

[vocal basin]

TIL it's 5173 because SITE

(never thought about whether it has any meaning before)

[whole bear]

Vite ain't he using vite?

[vocal basin]

.

[stray pewter]

im using vite svelte kit with tailwind

[whole bear]

Smart!

[vocal basin]

if I didn't have the wrong keyboard layout selected, it would've been a more instant reply that time

[whole bear]

So could you share the real deal?

[stray pewter]

i am still not sure how to deploy svelte/vite to nginx

[whole bear]

can't help

[vocal basin]

general approximate idea with vite:

npx vite build
cp -aT dist /usr/share/nginx/html

[stray pewter]

well idk where tf vite shoved my output to

@lilac hill 👋

[vocal basin]

dist

[lilac hill]

https://tenor.com/view/jagshemash-borat-how-are-you-hello-jak-sie-masz-gif-19078868

[vocal basin]

is it the only file there?

did you run npm run build?

[stray pewter]

How does one deploy a empty index.js with nginx

[vocal basin]

I'm waiting for node 20.19 to download to test it myself

very slow download

[vocal basin]

I started downloading just after this message

it's at 32.5%

okay this is too long I'm going with docker image instead

ah, it's different with SvelteKit

quite a bit

@stray pewter you have server-side code, right?

if not,
https://svelte.dev/docs/kit/adapter-static

this if you do have server-side code
https://svelte.dev/docs/kit/adapter-node

some parts can be served statically by nginx

some parts need to be proxied to

and you can't really "deploy" to nginx, it's just a proxy/web server

[vocal basin]

you still need to run node separately

[wise loom]

@amber raptor devops or platform engineering?

@amber raptor in spanish they call it "ingineria de plataforma"

i thought that was funny

[amber raptor]

Both suck

[whole bear]

I've changed my name from yellowrabbit to wiserturtle

No more name conflict

[vocal basin]

good choice, yellow rabbit

[whole bear]

Are you asian?

At first I thought it would be bad to name yellowrabbit

as it would be offensive to someone

because of race

so I changed to much appropriate name

PC?

[lilac hill]

This discussion itself is more inappropriate and kind of racist tbh

Too much PC is not good

[whole bear]

PC?

Uhh

[lilac hill]

too much of anything is not good

[wise loom]

some ppl say currywurst is good

[whole bear]

Someone found my name offensive

so I decided to change

[wise loom]

your thoughts on ikea swedish meatballs?
https://storage.googleapis.com/onmilwaukee-article-images/variants/wulru7k48da9d96guetxgwphlb21/44487ed8fba0f2b82d9d5c8e9a98ed4b9d67f7c75e21d8b1a6cda1869e8697fd

[lilac hill]

cheap and totally OK. Very convienient when shopping

[whole bear]

Stranger from Korea in English Server

[lilac hill]

yeah sometime people find offense as soon as you fart in your own room these days

[lilac hill]

I believe South Korea is a very racist society, according to reports

not for me.. I prefer smörgåstårta

[whole bear]

Yep

I got no clue about korean man

I think it depends on person to person

[lilac hill]

They are openely racist towards foreigners too and halt the implementation of anti-discrimination laws

so it is always easy to come to western world and demand PC and changes.

Best change is done within

before trowing stones at glass houses

[dusky obsidian]

Who is looking for Koreans?

[lilac hill]

but god dammit Korean food is sooooo good

[whole bear]

@tacit crane Hello!

[lilac hill]

yummi yummi

[dusky obsidian]

yeah, oh i see

[vocal basin]

download failed

exploded

74.6%

[dusky obsidian]

what kind of phenomena?

[vocal basin]

(quote, "stranger" not "man", but okay)

[dusky obsidian]

what mean "YellowRabbit"?

[whole bear]

😛 no

[dusky obsidian]

actually as a korean i think, korea is not racist society

[vocal basin]

I can authoritatively declare that I have absolutely no idea

[dusky obsidian]

real racist society is france i think?

[lilac hill]

so no substance behind this?

"South Korea lacks an anti-discrimination law, which was recommended by the UN Human Rights Committee in 2015. The law has been reported stalled due to "lack of public consensus".[3]"

[vocal basin]

((also do be mindful of the present audience when making such comments))

[lilac hill]

they have anti-discriminatory laws. and are under EU Laws

[vocal basin]

meanwhile Russia does have such a law, doesn't seem to be helping

[dusky obsidian]

It would be nice to have an anti-discrimination law, but in Korea, it doesn't exist because it prevents abuse of the law.

[lilac hill]

russia have lots of muslims and many ethnicities

[vocal basin]

just because they exist doesn't mean they're treated well

[lilac hill]

and they should not be role model or example lol

[vocal basin]

yeah, just saying that existence of a law doesn't necessarily help

[whole bear]

In a Python Discord call, there was already someone named Rabbit, so I changed mine to YellowRabbit (because of my yellow pfp) based on suggestion by fellow member to avoid confusion. Later, in an English server, someone misunderstood my username and thought it was offensive, but I had no bad intent.

It ain't serious

I just changed my username to avoid any confusion or trouble

[lilac hill]

is this not true then?

[dusky obsidian]

correct

[lilac hill]

or what about this

The thing is racism is everywhere and among everyone in one way or another

racism has its roots in insecurity

anyone can be racist

and anyone can work against it and learn to live among others

[vocal basin]

this sounds so wrong outside context lol

[lilac hill]

sure, but there are strong evidence of far worse racism in Korea compared to any EU state or USA/Canada

so no point in trowing stones

yeah they are not open at all

[rich plover]

well well well

[lilac hill]

same with Korea.. Immigrants are workers

not war refugees

Korea do not help war refugees

[whole bear]

Damn

From normal talk to political talk

[lilac hill]

I believe western world is far more advanced in its humanism and anti-racism

this is why more people relocate from asia to EU and not wise verca

nope

[whole bear]

I think this discussion is baseless

we should have been talking about tech, programming

[lilac hill]

No I think its because life and work conditions are better here

[dusky obsidian]

Sorry guys, the conversation got a little heated. I apologize. 😄

[lilac hill]

it would be a down grade for me to move from sweden to South Korea

in all possible ways

[whole bear]

No worry, pardon me.
I think I'm main cause for discussion

[whole bear]

@lilac hill Whats ur goal?

[lilac hill]

buy land on patagonia and build a new society starting with orphan homes

its my 5th day coding so I have a long way to go before becoming dollar trillionaire

[whole bear]

Good to know

you got a big dream

[lilac hill]

comes with big fantasy

[whole bear]

@wise loomI'm sorry you were talking about someone?

[whole bear]

Hmm

Strange thing happened to me

my discord web closed all of the sudden I got blocked from login discord on chrome

Any idea what could be reason?

[stray pewter]

hia

:

3

im back

@timid quartz 👋

what are you on abt

https://tenor.com/view/barney-gumble-beer-simpson-gif-9609371423228481116

[timid quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/chicken-bro-chicken-xmas-christmas-full-gif-19366743

[stray pewter]

I just went out and bought food

I need to figure out how to deploy a Svelte Kit vite site

we can hear it

@timid quartz

[timid quartz]

@wind raptorTHE HURRICANE IS COMINGGG

[stray pewter]

:3

Do you do web dev?

hell naw

im good

I dont like chatgpt

@last condor @rich plover 👋

[whole bear]

Hello Oracle

[rich plover]

@whole bear hi

[whole bear]

Hi

[stray pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/sunflower-gif-24455870

Pov: @somber heath, and I still think of you as a sun flower cause of your old pfp from 3 years ago

[whole bear]

@timid quartz Say it if you can

[stray pewter]

@timid quartz Can you download my EXE game and run it as administrator

[timid quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/butt-shake-gif-1690671815913087173

[stray pewter]

Just ignore the new service BitcoinMiner.exe running

@lilac hill @timid quartz WHAT THE F-

[timid quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/kailey-rawr-meowww-meow-cougar-gif-13028469

[stray pewter]

Im telling a trusted adult

[timid quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/gatty-anime-gif-20949439

[stray pewter]

@timid quartz You remind me of how annoying I was when I was 11 or 10 in this discord server

[whole bear]

Most entertaining talk in VC

but I will regret it

[stray pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/kid-look-stare-awkward-guilty-gif-5289290

yeah

I was here on many accounts

I was banned like 10 times

over the span of 4 years

now Im finaly unbanned

:3

[whole bear]

https://tenor.com/view/star-atlas-ustur-ustur-evolution-star-atlas-evolve-evolve-gif-25086092

American teenager be like :

[stray pewter]

REAL

WHAT A SLUR

please do not say slurs around here

its really offensive

"frontend developer"

[whole bear]

Frontend dev are dev

be respectful

[stray pewter]

clipped

im 14

check out my site you can rate it

https://nerd-bear.org

I didnt wanna

I got my own work

I was considering it

[vocal basin]

@wise loom if this is a break, where is continue/return/goto

[wise loom]

in dijsktra’s famous paper where it was discredited

[vocal basin]

break 'fail

[whole bear]

I suppose he would be banned soon

[vocal basin]

whomstd

[wise loom]

and talking about dijkstra, I saw some Linkedin posts like “Dijkstra defeated after 40y by Tsing Hua University”

[whole bear]

Nvm, I was going to report him

but I choose to mind my own damn business

[stray pewter]

im just saying

not trying to stir smth up

I used to be like that, I changed. Its called trying atleast to be more mature

I hope you understand

no no jokes its okie

just saying

[whole bear]

super dev being nice?

You made a lame joke earlier

about 5173

[vocal basin]

SITE

[stray pewter]

I made a localhost joke im sorry

[vocal basin]

5S
1I
7T
3E

because vite devs are being funny

(leetspeak)

[vocal basin]

I approve of that joke, but only because the port is recognisable

[stray pewter]

:3

[whole bear]

But he was not even sure about 5173

discussion is wild

damn!

[timid quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/kailey-rawr-meowww-meow-cougar-gif-13028469

[vocal basin]

kailey-rawr.png

[stray pewter]

website :3

[whole bear]

I feel bad

[stray pewter]

same

[vocal basin]

cringe discussion but not yet too cringe for me to leave

[whole bear]

💯

[stray pewter]

Svelte VS. React

EPIC RAP BATTLES OF HISTORY

WHO WILL WIN?

YOU DECIDE

[vocal basin]

Preact

[whole bear]

React

[vocal basin]

no, live coding channel doesn't grant anything

[lime vale]

@wind raptor can you gimme screen share to just code live

[vocal basin]

prior to recently, help and live were special

but

not in the streaming way

they just had the integrated chats enabled

[whole bear]

I wish there was mod in Voice Call

[vocal basin]

because some people considered them easier to use during streaming

[wind raptor]

Sorry, I'm not available at the moment. I'm at an adventure farm with the fam.

[timid quartz]

w w w

[vocal basin]

@lilac hill sounds miserable except for the money

capitalistic dystopia

[lime vale]

literally

[vocal basin]

Language H is peak

Db2 is famous enough

[lime vale]

look up EASYTRIEVE

[vocal basin]

some of Language H keywords:

READ, PRINT, PUNCH, NUMBER, MAX, BEING, FROM, CHANNEL, DIGIT, STERLING, CHARACTERS, UP, TO, RADICES, QUANTITY, DECIMAL, POINT, INADMISSIBLE, INPUT, CONTROL, ERROR, SEEN-CHARACTER, OPERAND, CALCULATE, HOLD, OFF, ON, SEE, AT, POSITION, PLACES, FILE, GET, AGAIN, WITH, FINISH, REEL-END, UNOBTAINABLE, END-OF-FILE, MARKER, BRANCH, OR, GET-AGAIN, ACCORDING, SEQUENTIAL, FILING, DUMP, DATA, PROCESSING, PROGRAM, FOR, CHAPTER, NOTE, IN, OBEY, AND, ARE, AT, BY, IN, IS

[lime vale]

very COBOL-esc

[vocal basin]

@lilac hill it's not about sensitivity;
this is a community where slurs aren't tolerated regardless of whether someone feels bad or not

[lime vale]

EASYTRIEVE is COBOL based

[lilac hill]

just mute him or turn him down

[stray pewter]

also muted

[vocal basin]

you misunderstand the point a lot

[lilac hill]

not everyone can be friends with eachother

[stray pewter]

indeed

[vocal basin]

it's not about being friends

we have had moderators ban their own friends, while still remaining friends

[timid quartz]

@lime valewhy u mute me bru

[vocal basin]

because rules exist, and making constant exceptions for friends is not the way

[lilac hill]

it its completely silent for hours I prefer to listen to his silly stuff instead of nothing

[lime vale]

idk u were saying nonsense

[stray pewter]

I will return soon. Brb

[vocal basin]

yeah, this is unrelated

[timid quartz]

i was talking

[vocal basin]

iirc it's, like, 14x on green

I can't do the maths on what's happening there right now

@amber raptor 5~8% for roulette seems like

[vocal basin]

(if two cells)

$5K/month is approx what I sent a screenshot of earlier

$60K annual

oi

wrong ping sorry

[whole bear]

How much does a Data Engineer or Frimware Enginner earn

[rich plover]

@vocal basin i earn more than that🙂

[vocal basin]

@lilac hill

[vocal basin]

yeah, just mentioning to emotional that last time we were discussing this, it was that amount

[whole bear]

Good for you!

[vocal basin]

(I thought they thought it was higher)

@lime vale writing raw assembler lacks the optimisations

that's why, starting with Fortran compiled languages were faster

so it's a sharp tool

most of the time you want C/C++/Rust for speed

yeah, historical

in some cases assembler is easier to read and write than C++

$5K/month pre-tax is not enough of a "great money" to suffer through for

[whole bear]

I think Rabbit meant it is easier to hire Java dev because of large pool of dev and cheaper

[vocal basin]

!d code

[wise cargo]

code

Source code: Lib/code.py

The code module provides facilities to implement read-eval-print loops in Python. Two classes and convenience functions are included which can be used to build applications which provide an interactive interpreter prompt.

[vocal basin]

@full dagger

hmm

!d curses

[wise cargo]

curses

Source code: Lib/curses

The curses module provides an interface to the curses library, the de-facto standard for portable advanced terminal handling.

While curses is most widely used in the Unix environment, versions are available for Windows, DOS, and possibly other systems as well. This extension module is designed to match the API of ncurses, an open-source curses library hosted on Linux and the BSD variants of Unix...

[vocal basin]

this is for REPL

[stray pewter]

im back

[vocal basin]

@full dagger do you mean the >>> Python thing

[whole bear]

Hello back

[vocal basin]

this?

[vocal basin]

@amber raptor I think they mean this

just a customiseable REPL

though not sure

this is so confusing

@full dagger can you show an example input?

[stray pewter]

I spent 700 lines of code on just sanetizing my DB transactions

[vocal basin]

what

okay, in what world does the act of "sanitising transactions" ever make sense

did you mean optimising?

[stray pewter]

no

[vocal basin]

were you doing interpolation before?

[stray pewter]

cleaning and sanitising transactions with my postgresql db

[vocal basin]

tf you mean sanitising

sanitisation is an act of removing parts of data

generally, just don't

[stray pewter]

avoiding sql injections and similar

[vocal basin]

show an example

you can't fix SQL injections with sanitisation

it's a tape-over measure

[stray pewter]

its production enterprise level. We have tens of thousands of emails. Security and backups is VERY important

[vocal basin]

show an example of what you call "sanitisation"

hopefully, you're just misusing the term because of that one xkcd using it for dramatic effect

otherwise major disaster

you need query parameters and validation

almost never sanitisation

[stray pewter]

well first off. Its not just sanitisation. Its just security measures for transactions.

[vocal basin]

@stray pewter everything else aside,
what do you mean by sanitisation?

not in vague terms

concrete measures and actions

[stray pewter]

ok so, in general its just security measures for transactions not just sanitisation. It avoids SQL injequtions, and handles part of auth

[vocal basin]

@stray pewter

[stray pewter]

avoiding people from using sql injections

and more

[vocal basin]

yeah, this is not sanitisation

[stray pewter]

transaction auth

formating

[scarlet halo]

oh come on 🙏

[stray pewter]

like it does a lot lol

[vocal basin]

yeah, please, learn what words mean

[stray pewter]

like I said not just sanitisation

[vocal basin]

(I'll just assume this won't be answered today)

[scarlet halo]

is friday weekend 🤔

[vocal basin]

a'b -> a\'b is escaping, not exactly sanitisation but can be called as such
a'b -> ab is sanitisation, but is a bad thing to do
assert ' not in "a'b" is validation, not sanitisation

[stray pewter]

I do all of that and more lol

[vocal basin]

sanitisation is an act of altering inputs

[stray pewter]

like I said

not sanitisation

formatting

security

auth

[vocal basin]

STOP.DON'T.

first two options there are so wrong

you almost never need them

if you're escaping strings in order to do SQL, you have a security hole

a giant one

[stray pewter]

yeah, auth is needed in the api

[vocal basin]

and if you're removing 's from strings, you're destroying data

[stray pewter]

im not. I just cant seem to be able to explain it

[stray pewter]

Im not

[vocal basin]

good

I have a somewhat pedantic definition of "all"

meaning

all

[scarlet halo]

hey @versed heath

[stray pewter]

it does the essential db interfacing stuff

[versed heath]

hi

[vocal basin]

since you're using PostgreSQL,
you're only allowed to pass any dynamic data via $1, $2, etc.

the statement itself must be hard-coded

(up to some reasonable definition of hard-coded, there are some allowable exceptions)

[whole bear]

Rabbit is experienced dev?

[vocal basin]

"experienced jaded"

[stray pewter]

Im not going to explain the entire 700 line DB interface

[vocal basin]

this is parametrisation/prepared statements,
unrelated to sanitisation

[scarlet halo]

do it i dare you

[stray pewter]

it takes in data, makes sure its safe *and formatted and stuff, and puts it in the db

[vocal basin]

second step is somewhat invalid

your code should be safe to run regardless of data

you might hit your database's storage limits, but you won't have a security vulnerability

[stray pewter]

im not

but I am

its really hard to explain

[vocal basin]

since this is security-critical, it's extremely important for it to be clear why it's safe

take some time to write down (in a comment, document, wherever else) why it's correct

with specific measures

at least so you understand what's happening

[stray pewter]

Look, it does not destroy any data. It avoids basic stuff and handles part of the session auth, (Yes its 3+ files)

[vocal basin]

it's very easy to overcomplicate security

[stray pewter]

indeed

[vocal basin]

e.g. if your security code mentions ', you've already failed

[stray pewter]

most of the auth is handled by another part of the API which well does token auth

[stray pewter]

it does not

[vocal basin]

good

[stray pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/sml-dorito-man-you-look-like-you-need-some-doritos-supermariologan-doritos-gif-5969464472572972543

[whole bear]

@lilac hill You are gifted or goated?

[stray pewter]

he is both

[whole bear]

Dude has simple motto : to be or not to be

[whole bear]

Oh thats how they got inspiration for scooby doo

https://youtu.be/LLYKlQ2nwqQ?si=JNnD2NvIQ70Amt2Q

doo bee doo bee doo bah

[lilac hill]

none tbh

[vocal basin]

so this thing roughly handles the stuff in red
(I deliberately put the line through validation, since I'd assume your external API already does basic parts of that)

[whole bear]

OG song:
https://youtu.be/S2ujotDMluo?si=4nF9iGXE7j1C3soh

[vocal basin]

(the diagram isn't your system, just an example)

SSGd HTML does need sanitisation because reasons

it's partly sanitisation party specifically escaping

you'd really rare want to remove stuff from it

one example where you would, is if you want to partially render untrusted HTML

@whole bear is this in a context of an app/web/somewhere else?

[whole bear]

Yeah an app

Mobile app

[vocal basin]

navigation

[whole bear]

Could you be more specific?

[vocal basin]

routing is a specific case of navigation which involves URLs with varying paths

[whole bear]

For android navigatoon is habdled via navigation host and a nav grapg

[vocal basin]

paths being key there

[whole bear]

Graph

I assumed there was a general terminology for this

[vocal basin]

so navigation is more general than routing

I wonder what hypermedia theorists called it

[whole bear]

Oooh wow thanks

[vocal basin]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTI2Kz0V2OFlgbkROVmzkfQRW2FrX2KfR

someone also compiled it into one video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3gmh-d9oI

[whole bear]

He stares deep down to soul

[vocal basin]

I don't remember a word of that but it was fun to watch

I ended up looking up what happened to SQL injection functions sanitisation functions in PHP

one nuked in 5.4, another in 5.5

(at least one of those was SQL-related; the other was either SQL or HTML)

[primal shadow]

That's what parameterized queries are for

[scarlet halo]

https://github.com/Spelis/vanta been working on a rewrite for like 2 weeks and im not even done... if anyone wants to help contribute feel free :)

[vocal basin]

it's been 12~13 years~~ in happy terms, and probably still present in enterprise terms~~

[vocal basin]

yes

we just had someone being really defensive about sanitisation earlier

[primal shadow]

What's there to get defensive about?

Users are malicious, sanitize.

Users are idiots, idiot proof.

Users are bad, be good.

[whole bear]

I guess ted talk was named after him

Video was informative

I liked the video

[scarlet halo]

https://spelis.projnull.eu/fun/mathchallenge.png

[vocal basin]

as in:
[saying to them]: PHP has utilities for sanitisation; sanitisation is not the way to stop SQL injections, parametrised queries are
[their response, approx, non-quote]: why did you say PHP's sanitisation is bad, stupid?

[vocal basin]

yeah, same question

[vocal basin]

also, no;
validate, not sanitise (in most cases)

sanitisation is more of a "user is dumb, but we want to accept their input anyway" rather than a safety/correctness measure

"oh, we received this field padded with spaces, they probably didn't mean that" type of action

[elder cedar]

Hi

[vocal basin]

I've seen this particular example

[elder cedar]

Why I’m not allowed to talk

[vocal basin]

!voice

[wise cargo]

Voice verification

Can’t talk in voice chat? Check out #voice-verification to get access. The criteria for verifying are specified there.

[vocal basin]

it and similar are way stronger an argument for messing with input than safety

[primal shadow]

Yea, after I wrote that I looked into the technical meaning of the word. That's why I like this place, always learning new things.

[vocal basin]

thanks xkcd for confusing generations of programmers

it sounds cool, but even google and GPT are pedantic about it

[elder cedar]

Sure

Ill

Send

25

Messages

[vocal basin]

please don't spam

[primal shadow]

aww

[whole bear]

Report him to mod

[primal shadow]

you should, and get that 2 week timeout

[elder cedar]

Bro it requires me to send 25 messages

[elder cedar]

No wtf?

[whole bear]

Hmm

[primal shadow]

#voice-verification

[whole bear]

please do not spam

[vocal basin]

maybe reverse psychology will work one way or another

[elder cedar]

So talk to me

[vocal basin]

possibly because we had two decades of stackoverflow commentors and answerers correcting everyone about it

this is like how GPT learned to program Dafny correctly

because nearly the only Dafny code it saw was correct

since the language requires correctness

it's very strict and quite non-universal

but still useful

[elder cedar]

Bro stop spamming

[whole bear]

Dude pulled uno card

[vocal basin]

I've just realised I forgot to buy milk

catastrophe

[elder cedar]

Never knew people are active in this vc

[vocal basin]

Europeans nearly busy sleeping

[elder cedar]

Like i have been here for a while. This used to be totally silent

[elder cedar]

Good start

Go vegan

[vocal basin]

I don't have vegan milk either

milk replacement

both are fine

but I don't have either

and that's not fine

[whole bear]

Drink water, chill

[vocal basin]

water is bad for me unfortunately

at least regular filtered one

[whole bear]

https://tenor.com/view/how-paapabutterfly-gif-22583765

[vocal basin]

throat damage

and some of my relatives have issues like regular water (especially when cold) inducing vomiting

[vocal basin]

only certain kinds of bottled water are okay

which I don't have either

[whole bear]

😕

[vocal basin]

"you thought C++ union rules were hard? try these union rules"

(corrected to C++ because it, unlike C, has way more rules on union usage)

involving some amount of time travel

go go C++23

[elder cedar]

Pasteurised?

[vocal basin]

no

that was about water

not milk

[whole bear]

How do you survive in asia?

[vocal basin]

I can afford living on bottled water

but tea+milk is slightly cheaper

and less painful

[whole bear]

You are like person with rabbies

you fear any water but bottled water

[vocal basin]

I don't fear it

I can drink it

it just hurts

and isn't safe

[whole bear]

Exactly

[whole bear]

which country you from?

[vocal basin]

(local water is problematic)

tap water in the mountains was okay, but it had different negative effects

being effectively just water-distilled limestone

I also have a direct recommendation from a doctor to avoid skin contact with water

from back when it was a bit worse

(now it's less problematic)

@primal shadow magalopolis? (might've slightly misheard the vowel in there)

[vocal basin]

this would be such a name for some Trump city project

[vocal basin]

I've seen it used

[vocal basin]

NEOM: Mojave edition

(I don't know any USA desert names to make that actually funny)

[vocal basin]

300km wall to keep the Californians away

jerrymanderopolis

[scarlet halo]

What is that supposed to be

[vocal basin]

probably because stuff averages out differently because regular region and colour-blind vision

like if you get a very noisy test

[primal shadow]

https://www.challengetb.org/publications/tools/country/Ishihara_Tests.pdf

[amber raptor]

https://www.colour-blindness.com/colour-blindness-tests/ishihara-colour-test-plates/

[vocal basin]

trying make a thing in photoshop

[sharp summit]

ah hello

[sharp summit]

ah nice I'm getting adobe photoshop soon...

[vocal basin]

so there is this as just white noise base

but under some filter it should have a visible pattern

the idea is to have same average brightness

which I might not have achieved

so, like, you shuffle channels around a bit

and it looks normal until filters are applied

but

I don't know if it's actually possible to make work

recent fun SQL thing:
integrated BLOB storage into an object/document storage thingy

[vocal basin]

so now it can handle files of arbitrary size, just like that MongoDB video

[vocal basin]

okay I give up

I've never been good at colouring in Photoshop

[primal shadow]

https://tenor.com/bO8HV.gif

[lavish rover]

dragon drop

[vocal basin]

DROP TABLE dragon

[vocal basin]

typical D&D activities

SELECT
        column1
    ,
        column2
    ,
        column3
FROM
        table1

@lavish rover https://docs.rs/sqlx

compile-time

it does run the SQL

but during compilation

this is what made me stop fearing SQL's fragility

I think C++ soon will be able to do the same

or partially already can

OcenGPT

when

one you discover codegen or equivalent techniques, boilerplate just turns into a solvable problem

which you don't need an AI to solve

[vocal basin]

I spent ~20 hours on a proc macro which later saved me hundreds of hours of code writing and debugging

(at work)

[lavish rover]

do you have 20 hour proc macro on hand I'm curious what that looks like

[vocal basin]

schema derivation within some proprietary format

[lavish rover]

eh i would prefer having a little more boilerplate to keep code more readable

i've seen people magic-away everything which is a huge fucking pain to debug when you need to actually debug something behind the curtain

[vocal basin]

the result of its work is checked into Git

so I can see the output

[lavish rover]

fair enough

[vocal basin]

all of this is codegen'd too
https://docs.rs/object-rainbow/latest/src/object_rainbow/impls/tuple.rs.html

I didn't want to write regular macros

, which are confusing when clicking "go to source" or whatever

where you'd usually see

util::impl! {
    A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L
}

or whatever else

[lavish rover]

ah yes type tetris

impl<A: Size, B: Size, C: Size, D: Size> Size for (A, B, C, D)
where
    tarr![A::Size, B::Size, C::Size, D::Size,]: typenum::FoldAdd<Output: Unsigned>,
{
    const SIZE: usize = A::SIZE + B::SIZE + C::SIZE + D::SIZE;

    type Size = <tarr![A::Size, B::Size, C::Size, D::Size,] as typenum::FoldAdd>::Output;
}

[vocal basin]

and no details

[vocal basin]

tarrpit

given how cursed typenum is, it's a miracle it works at all

lmao

import-python

less sane proc macros:
https://docs.rs/object-rainbow-derive/latest/src/object_rainbow_derive/lib.rs.html

how dare I not support unions in a serialisation library

birds migration patterns

this is easier to read than it was to write

[sharp summit]

💀

[vocal basin]

this formatting was quite necessary to have any idea of what's even going on
https://docs.rs/object-rainbow-derive/latest/src/object_rainbow_derive/lib.rs.html#951-962

@wind raptor I think Angular fits classes more

and Vue

they try to make reactivity more transparent there

without all the mechanics

@wind raptor they are entirely intuitive for me

but

this is, like, having C in mind when programming Python

not all people get this as a benefit for them

React is way easier for me to debug than any other UI thing

*any popular and capable of similar things

CCMS uses a superior, for its use case, framework, of which it's the only user

with live reload done the most knuckleheaded way

as in nuke the state, replace HTML, watch state reappear

?
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Push_API

WHERE IS THE AD
PANIC PANIC MOZILLA IS GOING BANKRUPT

[whole bear]

Don't you guys think you are in social media dilemma?

[timid quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/kailey-rawr-meowww-meow-cougar-gif-13028469

.

i never said f slur in chat bru

[wind raptor]

There are reports from multiple sources that you did. If you'd like to discuss the infraction further, please open a @rapid crown appeal.

[amber raptor]

Hey, American getting that sweet Intel stock!

[nova pike]

who wants to make this thing with me

[timid quartz]

roblox

[nova pike]

yea

[nova pike]

roblox but cooler

[timid quartz]

bros def finna get a law suit or sum

and it chatgpt uh

cuh

[amber raptor]

It's python, I think Roblox is safe

[timid quartz]

!ban @timid quartz 10000000

chris

can i dm u

chris i tried to tell u that i accidently said the word and u werent responding

[vocal basin]

@primal shadow Space Engineers is getting farming added next month

[woeful blaze]

How is everyone doing today?

[primal shadow]

ooh

[vocal basin]

Building on the solid PVE foundation laid by previous updates like Contact and Fieldwork, Apex Survival update introduces food, farming, environmental hazards, new Space Encounters, and much more - giving survival mode a whole new edge.

I don't remember what the previous update was

[amber raptor]

I’ve played other games that have farming, glad space engineers didn’t

[vocal basin]

I'd assume it's an optional thing

world option

[amber raptor]

Sure

Glad for more env hazards and encounters

[vocal basin]

ah, encounters

moddable

[vocal basin]

bigger asteroids, more spiders and dogs

waiting for them to allow herding the spiders

[upper gate]

hey everyone

a

[whole bear]

hey

[somber heath]

@dapper wraith 👋

[dapper wraith]

Hi

[obsidian root]

https://tenor.com/view/penguin-hello-hi-cute-gif-13905880940590312511

[somber heath]

@lime schooner 👋

[lime schooner]

hey there

bro i am not able to get my vc going

it says must be active for more then 3 days

[obsidian root]

I believe debian has patched it in the latest version

[lime schooner]

can i by pass it somehow ?

[somber heath]

https://tenor.com/view/well-there-it-is-jeff-goldblum-gif-14058551

[lime schooner]

it's a pain to wait 3 days

[obsidian root]

they need to promote time from int 32 to int 64

[lime schooner]

just to speak

[somber heath]

FAT time to FAT32 time.

[obsidian root]

iirc, it took debian months to have it fully migrated

[lime schooner]

WDYM?

[somber heath]

I'm not being serious.

[obsidian root]

C has to deal with memory layouts and limits in bytes that more abstracted languages don't deal with

[lime schooner]

i don't understand what you wrote over their

[obsidian root]

https://tenor.com/view/reject-modernity-return-to-monke-monke-gif-19167526

I dont believe its just engineering. Everyone who has learned a little dont understand the depth of the problems and the required solutions.

[lime schooner]

are human around here at agre of aprox 18-20

[obsidian root]

I feel that trying to find backdoors is like bug hunting, but the other guy is actively trying to hide them while bugs are just are

https://xkcd.com/224/

xkcd: Lisp

We lost the documentation on quantum mechanics. You'll have to decode the regexes yourself.

[somber heath]

@keen tendon 👋

[keen tendon]

hi

nice to meet you @somber heath

[whole bear]

or is it (jk)

??

[keen tendon]

@somber heath can we be friends

same here

excatly

[whole bear]

i guess that is correct knowing that your a good guy

and bad ppl exist

so

yes

[keen tendon]

ofc

@whole bear i agree with u7

voice chat is fun guys

haha