I found what I needed, it was just itertools.permutations lol https://docs.python.org/3/library/itertools.html#itertools.permutations
#voice-chat-text-0
urban abyss
primal shadow
willow light
https://fakeupdate.net/win10ue/
I use this all the time when I'm in the office
willow light
"we're not going to get anything done because of the extroverts, so I might as well do continuous OS updates"
primal shadow
the one guy was so confused, some people
I was like, yea, my windows apple machine here
willow light
During mandatory time in office, I usually leave my laptop behind, because I won't be able to focus. If I can hear a human voice, I cannot concentrate.
rugged root
lusty veldt
willow light
https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/map/2024-april-8 I like this one better
Heading up to the Third Connecticut Lake
I could always take this way to see the eclipse
https://www.wanderu.com/en-us/train/us-ma/boston/us-ny/rochester/
willow light
c.TerminalInteractiveShell.true_color = True
c.TerminalInteractiveShell.highlighting_style = "catppuccin-mocha"
!pip catppuccin
wise cargoBOT
rugged root
@last pond Yo
willow light
whole bear
@coarse spindle ๐
coarse spindle
<@1085653208732549223> ๐
hiiiiiii
whole bear
whole bear
@teal ginkgo @echo harbor ๐
rugged root
Co-worker is here, time for typing only Hemlock
whole bear
Co-worker is here, time for typing only Hemlock
NOOOoooo
rugged root
Yes?
echo harbor
hi can you help in pygame?
rugged root
hi can you help in pygame?
What's got you stuck? Although you might get better responses asking using the help system, as I don't have a lot of pygame experience. See the #โ๏ฝhow-to-get-help channel for more details on that
echo harbor
What's got you stuck? Although you might get better responses asking using the ...
thanks
rugged root
@primal shadow Wait what's that saying... "Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that's why I poop on company time"?
primal shadow
yep
willow light
I met way too many people who have more cents than sense. They usually drive white teslas.
willow light
It's from the really old Demetri Martin standup routines.
rugged root
Don't know if I've ever seen any of his
willow light
From back when netflix was DVDs only.
rugged root
Alright, back to The Rust Book
willow light
I've been working my way through the Ansible docs.
willow light
They do the morning scrum, backlog refinement, and of course the sprint retros.
rugged root
Verizon, actually
primal shadow
willow light
Oh cool I found some of the old pictures from when i was in college.
rugged root
Wait is that dude randomly reading sheet music?
willow light
He's a pianist.
rugged root
@primal shadow On the backs of 4 elephants that stand on the back of a turtle
Well played
willow light
<@221417491136512010> On the backs of 4 elephants that stand on the back of a tu...
but does the turtle mate?
willow light
Hail Great A'Tuin
rugged root
I hate your spacing
willow light
Me too
rugged root
Go back in time and tell past you that, please and thank you
willow light
But at least it wasn't Matlab.
rugged root
Also that pass
willow light
Here have my handwriting instead
rugged root
You have very fancy y's
willow light
some of those are greek letters
willow light
one is a nu, the other is a y
rugged root
willow light
because meteorology be that way
rugged root
It's all chaos theory anyway
gentle flint
one is a nu, the other is a y
thought it was a weird lowercase gamma at first
the y
gentle flint
yeah they love biting things
rugged root
I always feel bad when I can't talk outloud in here because the channel just dies
gentle flint
mine chooses shoelaces
willow light
rugged root
@teal ginkgo So how're you today
willow light
They weren't kidding about it being a wicked big stawm
not often you need to bring the snowblower onto the porch
rugged root
If not for there then where
willow light
the driveway of course
rugged root
Looks like a significant amount of effort is being put to make sure most of the standard lib is thread safe when the GIL is disabled
Good to see
snow summit
welcome
stark river
rugged root
Sup nerds
rugged root
TIL that in the US, National Good Samartin Day is a thing
brb, tax program being a shit
peak depot
stark river
what part of china?
brittle flicker
hello
chilly magnet
somber heath
@timid cairn ๐
fast sparrow
timid cairn
why cant i speak?
fast sparrow
why cant i speak?
peak depot
somber heath
@hoary lichen ๐
fast sparrow
@hoary lichen #voice-verification
clear portal
somber heath
@severe warren ๐
severe warren
okay
wind raptor
Gotta restart. I have some audio issues
fast sparrow
just a sec, I'll be back
somber heath
mellow shuttle
Oh,tha's cool
๐
Oh. am kinda new to the whole discord server
thanks OpalMist
somber heath
@scarlet sage ๐
somber heath
@turbid python ๐
obsidian dragon
@somber heath a jar file is a zip folder
peak depot
somber heath
@grand storm ๐
peak depot
turpa kiinni
upper basin
turnip kimchi!
grand storm
Im working with my new pc (i test it)
rugged root
Cool cool
https://www.graalvm.org/python/ Ohhhhhh boy
This is a thing
!stream 343834855882227724
wise cargoBOT
โ @cedar mason can now stream until <t:1710337998:f>.
marsh drift
Hello!
How is everyone?
upper basin
rugged root
Hello!
How is everyone?
Doing well, how about yourself
scenic garden
Doing well, how about yourself
Why do you shake when I hover over your face?
rugged root
Too much caffeine
rapid chasm
marsh drift
Doing well, how about yourself
I'm Feeling Pretty good too!
urban abyss
Setting up a common libs project in my monorepo to be used throughout the org. What are your thoughts on matching directory structure to namespace? We're also thinking of defining sets of these libs as common.tools or common.helpers to inform the end user of how they should be used. Rather than having those "categories" as directories in the structure that would require structural changes later when code is moved, I offered the idea of only defining those "categories" in our namespace.
So w/ this our dir structure would be like:
common
-> lib1 (e.g. bigquery)
-> lib2 (e.g. gcp_logging_helpers)
But our namespace would be defined as:
common.tools.bigquery
common.helpers.bigquery
common.helpers.gcp_logging
The alternative is to not define those categories and let users do what they want within libs e.g.:
common.bigquery
common.gcp_logging
Do you think it's helpful to define categories like that in namespace for the end user?
rugged root
Co-worker is here, so typing Hemlock only
I'm reading this over now, JSON
Are there any things in common.helpers.bigquery that would be used or useful in common.helpers.gcp_logging?
Because if not, then they shouldn't be in a common category
@near smelt If that project falls through then you're left with no safety net
urban abyss
Are there any things in `common.helpers.bigquery` that would be used or useful i...
maybe the other way around gcp_logging -> bigquery.
rugged root
Talented AND modest
common or utils should be for things that are useful in more than one subproject, subdirectory, or file. General example like we have in the Python bot
urban abyss
when it comes to distribution i'd be splitting it per lib so common-bigquery.whl , common-gcp-logging.whl
rugged root
Thinking
I'd have to hunt around various monorepos for examples of good practice.
They're still a bit nebulous to me
urban abyss
`common` or `utils` should be for things that are useful in more than one subpro...
yeah i'm finding it hard to answer my own questions
i think there should be no inter dependency between common.lib1 and common.lib2
as a rule
whole bear
@potent sable ๐
whole bear
could u help me <@456226577798135808>
What can I do for you?
potent sable
ive opened a help thing but basically to do with printing stuff
like
idk how to explain
theres a space and i dont want it to be there
rugged root
Line 14, were you wanting it to say the value of BalanceBoost?
potent sable
yeah but i want it to say the value without a space
cus if i do that theres a space
rugged root
print(f"Balance:{round(Balance, 2)}")
print(f"{BalanceBoost}/sec")
rugged root
Uhh, one sec
potent sable
okay
would it be because i use codetoday.co.uk
i dont know any good ones that are free
and are able to use loops
whole bear
He opened a help post
potent sable
Like a learning platform?
i just found it idk
whole bear
Something like VS code I think
potent sable
rugged root
It's using an older version of Python.... Hmm
potent sable
do u know any good websites to do it on
rugged root
I wouldn't use this site. They seem to be using a Python version that's older than 3.6, which is quite old at this point
rugged root
!resources We have a bunch of resources linked on our site. I typically recommend "A Byte of Python". If you want to use an online editor, https://replit.com/ is a good one
wise cargoBOT
potent sable
replit is confusing
rugged root
Are you able to use an editor on your computer?
I've got a couple simpler ones that can let you focus on learning to code rather than fighting the editor
potent sable
Are you able to use an editor on your computer?
wdym
rugged root
As in like downloading and installing a code editor to use rather than using a website
potent sable
ye as long as it wont hack me
rugged root
Of course. I wouldn't recommend anything that I wouldn't (or haven't) installed and tried myself
potent sable
wait this code actually works with replit
rugged root
Yep
potent sable
do u have any websites which i can go on in school as replit is blocked
potent sable
i dont think so its not for computer science its a place with laptops for ppl who strugge to learn in classes
rugged root
Gotcha gotcha. Let me think
potent sable
wait in replit can i change output text color and change texts to bold and stuff
to make some stuff stand out
rugged root
As in the code that you're writing or stuff that you print?
potent sable
rugged root
Changing the color of the stuff print puts out is possible, but you'd have to use another library to do it. By default, it's just plain old white. And that's the case with any editor you use
Of course you can use different themes and stuff for your editor, but output is a bit of a different beast.
potent sable
o
rugged root
They're usually easy to use
potent sable
could u help me make my lil game look good and work smooth?
how do i get rid of all these
rugged root
If you've got specific questions or things you're getting stuck on I can answer questions I can help as I can
fast sparrow
@rugged root 
rugged root
You can, but typically it'll be better if you use our help system since I may not be able to respond as quickly.
(See #โ๏ฝhow-to-get-help for more deailts on that)
potent sable
okay
rugged root
The more eyes on a question, the more likely you are to get a good answer
fast sparrow
potent sable
WAIT I GET THIS
rugged root
@turbid sandal Sup?
potent sable
the stuff in the {} is on top
rugged root
It did indeed
grand storm
Mu
And
Um guus
potent sable
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
grand storm
Um on guss
rugged root
@urban abyss Still thinking about a good way to organize utils in a monorepo, btw. I haven't forgotten
Enjoying it?
potent sable
mr. hemlock
grand storm
um lucky
potent sable
is it possible to make another line in the already made print
rugged root
Yep! There's a couple ways
rugged root
So one way you can do it is with an escape character. \n will create a newline
!e
print("This is on line one!\nAnd this is on line 2!")
@rugged root :white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.
001 | This is on line one!
002 | And this is on line 2!
ohhhh
rugged root
There's another option that makes it a bit more readable:
!e
print(
"This is on line one!\n"
"And this is on line two!"
)
@rugged root :white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.
001 | This is on line one!
002 | And this is on line two!
It's a bit of a cheat
Also note that there is no comma on the end of the first string. This tells Python to concatenate all the strings together before passing it to the function
potent sable
oh ya ik abt tha but i want to make the code as compact as i can i like code looking complex so i seem smart :D
potent sable
any way i can make this look better?
rugged root
oh ya ik abt tha but i want to make the code as compact as i can i like code loo...
Compact, unreadable code is not good
Future you will hate you for it
@turbid sandal Does make it very clear where things are blocked out
potent sable
ye but then it helps me understand compact code if i need
wise cargoBOT
potent sable
also ive just picked my options and i picked computer science as one
rugged root
Cool
potent sable
is computer science gsce easy or hard
potent sable
o
rugged root
I try to work a lot
Playing around with Rust. I've got a little project in mind, and Rust seems like a good option for it
potent sable
huh
rugged root
That's a style thing. You can ignore that
potent sable
so it wont break the game?
stark river
is computer science gsce easy or hard
easy. i got an A iirc
potent sable
ohh
potent sable
easy. i got an A iirc
okay
small cradle
How does putting variables in the middle of a function work?
potent sable
it looks ugly
potent sable
How does putting variables in the middle of a function work?
wdym?
rugged root
Rustlings is cool
small cradle
forget it
stark river
mind you this was back in 1999. and iirc what i took was gce?... but that's a minor difference and the basics shouldn't have changed much... i mean they must still be teaching things like binary.. that's not going to change in the syllabus
rugged root
That'd be cool
I never learned C/C++
Wellllllllll
The benefit of garbage collectors are that you shouldn't have to think about them
potent sable
hemlock how do i change the size and color?
wise cargoBOT
stark river
yep.. just saw my old cert.. GCE CS A 95%
potent sable
what abt change it to bold?
rugged root
Good ol' VB
stark river
don't have the program but still got the documentation
rugged root
@turbid sandal Is there a particular reason you want to do that?
potent sable
hemlock can u help me shorten/compact some lines of code?
cus it feels like theres un-nessecary lines of code for some reason
rugged root
More control of your actual program
That's not always a good thing. These systems have been highly optimized by folks way smarter than you or me
potent sable
import os
import time
Balance = 0
BalanceBoost = 1
Upgrade1_Cost = 15
Upgrade1_Boost = 1
seperator = "-"*15
def execute_balanceUpdate():
os.system("clear")
print(f"Balance:{round(Balance, 2)}")
print(f"+{round(BalanceBoost,2)}/sec")
print(seperator)
print(f"Upgrade 1: x{round(Upgrade1_Boost,2)} Balance \n Cost: {round(Upgrade1_Cost)}")
def execute_Upgrade1():
global Balance,Upgrade1_Cost,BalanceBoost,Upgrade1_Boost
if Balance >= Upgrade1_Cost:
Balance -= Upgrade1_Cost
BalanceBoost *= 1.3
Upgrade1_Cost *=1.65
Upgrade1_Boost *=1.3
while True:
Balance += BalanceBoost
time.sleep(1)
execute_balanceUpdate()
execute_Upgrade1()
And trying to manually manage memory and garbage collection yourself is how a majority of bugs happen
The benefits really aren't there unless you really REALLY know what you're doing
@somber heath Did they find your skeleton?
Oh thank god
potent sable
hemlock why do i need the f at the print bits what does that mean?
is it short for format
stark river
https://tenor.com/vhc1.gif
i should have gone direct into cs for my undergrad... why did i go with accounting
rugged root
So those are commonly called f-strings
potent sable
i dont get it
rugged root
I'll give an example.
potent sable
okay
rugged root
@somber heath The Sterilizer?
There's multiple ways you can put variables in a string so that you can see the values:
somber heath
<@317279909112446976> The Sterilizer?
Yeah, sterility wouldn't bother me.
Unless there's some psychological landmine.
Don't think there is for me.
But one never really knows.
Until...
rugged root
!e
name = "Jim"
age = 20
# concatenation
print("My name is " + name + " and I am " + str(age) + " years old.")
# c-style formatting
print("My name is %s and I am %d years old" % (name, age))
# .format() style
print("My name is {} and I am {} years old".format(name, age))
# f-string style
print(f"My name is {name} and I am {age} years old.")
@rugged root :white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.
001 | My name is Jim and I am 20 years old.
002 | My name is Jim and I am 20 years old
003 | My name is Jim and I am 20 years old
004 | My name is Jim and I am 20 years old.
@whole bear If you've been told that
And you KNOW that you've been told that
Maybe you should actually do that
No no
Don't just think about it
Actually do it
Because we HAVE brought it up before, and it's getting to a point where I won't be nice about it next time
We clear?
potent sable
!e
```py
name = "Jim"
age = 20
# concatenation
print("My name is " + name + " a...
ohh
rugged root
The % style of formatting is something that is from C
You have to specify what data type the value you're passing in is
So %s means a string, %d is an integer (I would assume means digit)
It's useful to know
potent sable
ohh
rugged root
C/C++
potent sable
broo why is this taking so long to import text
rugged root
But you do typically use it for logging libraries
@urban abyss Wait what?
f-strings are more performant
potent sable
would this work
rugged root
Yeah
potent sable
i cant test cus its still importing text
rugged root
No, doesn't have the method call overhead
potent sable
taking ages
it was supposed to be small code lol
but i end up getting too carried away and wanna add everythin
rugged root
f-strings are the fastest, c-style % formatting recently (I think in 3.10?) got brought up to about that speed, and .format() has method call overhead that the other two don't
rugged root
but i end up getting too carried away and wanna add everythin
Nothing wrong with that
potent sable
ye ik mr hemlock helped alot
rugged root
Live and learn
hallow aspen
earn
rugged root
But it's why I love f-strings and string interpolation in general
It's the first thing I look for when learning a new language
Loooooooooove string interpolation
hallow aspen
f string's is like f"snthin is {yay}"
rugged root
Very cool
grand storm
would this work
What is that version ?
hallow aspen
Why dont y'all use AI to code ?
rugged root
Who says I'm not?
hallow aspen
this server says your not
rugged root
!e or !eval then a code block
rugged root
this server says your not
It says not to give answers just dumped from ChatGPT
urban abyss
!e
x='hello'
print(f"{x=}")
ahh so stil 1up ai
rugged root
Yep, now click the reaction
wise cargoBOT
@urban abyss :white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.
x='hello'
!e I wonder....
ham = "bacon"
print("{:=}".format(ham))
@rugged root :x: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 1.
001 | Traceback (most recent call last):
002 | File "/home/main.py", line 2, in <module>
003 | print("{:=}".format(ham))
004 | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
005 | ValueError: '=' alignment not allowed in string format specifier
nice, i wonder if i scrape this chat and finetune mistral with it 
rugged root
That'd be a bit of a ToS violation if you did that
rugged root
Yeah, Discord would not be pleased
potent sable
eh slight problem
rugged root
Selfbots are a no-go
potent sable
bold coming up as a string now
hallow aspen
shott, i might be on the black list
imma copy manually if das da case
1 text at a time
rugged root
You do you
hallow aspen
50 a day, ez win
hallow aspen
bold coming up as a string now
clear o.O u using mac or powershell ?
potent sable
huh
hallow aspen
in windows cmd, i can only cls
rugged root
They're using an online editor
potent sable
potent sable
otherwise it would be printing loads
so i had to delete the print
and re print
ez
potent sable
whach u think system does ?
it the output
hallow aspen
u mean Konsoul ?
potent sable
ye
rugged root
The more I futz with Rust, the more I'm liking it
hallow aspen
ruszt
rugged root
Lots of just modern quality of life stuff
potent sable
hemlock plz help
hallow aspen
i prefer c+
potent sable
how would i make balance in bold
but i cant do bold(balance) cus it makes the bold a string
hallow aspen
Balance
rugged root
Rust version
fn main() {
let cat = ("Furry McFurson", 3.5);
let (name, age) = cat;
println!("{} is {} years old.", name, age);
}
Python version
cat = ("Furry McFurson", 3.5)
name, age = cat
print(f"{name} is {age} years old.")
Honestly not that different sometimes
hallow aspen
why didnt u make cat immutable ?
HUH
bad practise
unless it changes in the future that we dont knwo
๐คฏ
rugged root
name is a &str so it's just a reference to the string and i32's are just straight up copied
Type inference is dope
hallow aspen
sm0rt
potent sable
E HELP
rugged root
@somber heath And it just compounds
potent sable
why 4:4 breh its supposed to be a string
rugged root
I think it's always a reference if it's in a container?
Actually let me double check that
Or... yeah wait, they're both accurate
Oh no wait
It's a reference so that it has a consistent size
rugged root
@somber heath Band name. "Intestinal Referendum"
potent sable
hemlock what should i do to make it look better
rugged root
It's kind of always going to be a bit ugly in console
potent sable
what needs to stand out though?
potent sable
okay
how would i make suffexes so basically when balance gets to lets say 1242 it will show up as 1.24k
rugged root
There is a way but I don't remember off the top of my head
Something that is going to take me a while to get used to:
Getting an element via index in Python:
meats = ("bacon", "pork", "beef")
meats[1] # pork
Getting it from a tuple in Rust:
let meats = ("bacon", "pork", "beef")
meats.1 // pork
The dot notation for indexing is going to mess with me
@upper basin Can you zoom in a little
"\n".join(str(list_comp_here))
Wellll
Opal that was gold
Tuber
Just potatoes driving everywhere
"I do not want to go diving!"
SCUBA
Shell?
Ohhhh nice
In the ocean, they're all shell companies
rugged root
Getting an element via index in Python:
```py
meats = ("bacon", "pork", "beef")
...
But seriously this will drive me crazy for a while
I've never really liked dot notation for indexing or key lookup
gentle flint
Getting an element via index in Python:
```py
meats = ("bacon", "pork", "beef")
...
very like js
rugged root
But in JS you can still use the []
Actually I haven't check properly.... Haven't hit hash maps yet somehow
Oh well, going to continue down the rabbit hole
Opal: No I haven't
Both
PFFFF
And in Rabbit's voice I hear "Well that's a fucking lie"
And it pleases me greatly
stark river
Oh well, going to continue down the rabbit hole
you still need to take the drugs to get to wonderland..just like alice
somber heath
@livid sigil ๐
rugged root
I would assume map would be more efficient in rust than a for loop
Not entirely sure how I can benchmark that, though
See previous poop
Uninentional Artist
This had to be done Opal
You know it
I know it
HA
@wet heron @fleet bane Yo and yo again
@somber heath Catheter?
somber heath
Nono.
rugged root
Come on, we can do this together. We can put the "we" in "wee"
somber heath
Kidneys are just probably, "Dude, we know you're going through some things right now, but maybe give it a bit of a break, you know?*
rugged root
Human Brita filter
fleet bane
really?!
upper basin
I'm lame I know
If I don't laugh at my own jokes, I have to sit in awkward silence hehehe
rugged root
Same
upper basin
But I do find it funny, some guys would actually ask that
upper basin
Same
You're effortlessly funny, don't group yourself with me you hilarious chad.
I, such as the country I come in, am funny when I am covered in metaphorical shit. Real sit-com material.
stark river
upper basin
Very nice\
frozen junco
Hey
rugged root
Yo
Back in a sec, I need something to snack on
https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/attributes/codegen.html#the-inline-attribute
For some reason it cracks me up that it just "suggests" to the compiler that it should do this. The compiler doesn't have to if it doesn't love to
For some reason that's really pleasing
"No, fuck you. I know better than you."
Although, in fairness, it probably does
upper basin
"The answer is Milk!", "No, the answer is Milk."
me whispering to myself
"That's literally what I said, hmph"
Arms crossed
narrow salmon
Back in a sec, I need something to snack on
details pls
peak depot
Milk sugar, or lactose, is broken down in the intestine by a digestive enzyme called lactase. Only digested lactose can be absorbed from the small intestine into the bloodstream.
In the early days of mankind, reduced activity of the lactase enzyme was normal in adults. Before agriculture, humans only drank breast milk as children. At that time, the lactase enzyme was unnecessary for an adult, and its effect began to weaken around the age of 5โ12.
A mutation has long ago occurred in the gene-regulating part of the lactase enzyme, as a result of which the enzyme does not weaken even in adulthood. When humans started raising cattle and drinking milk as adults, this genetic form has been more affordable and more common. Among people of African and Asian descent, 90 percent still have the "original genetic form", meaning that almost all adults are lactose intolerant. In peoples who have lived on dairy farms for a long time, such as the Nordics, the changed gene form is more common than the original.
About 18 percent of Finns still have the original genetic form, which means that they have decreased activity of the lactase enzyme with age.
rugged root
What did I half walk back into?
potent sable
i need help hemlock
rugged root
Sorry I'm up and down a lot right now
peak depot
Lactose intolerance means that lactose causes symptoms. In some people, the reduced activity of lactase does not have any problems. Then the condition is called hypolactasia, Finnish for "decreased activity of intestinal lactase".
Lactose intolerance occurs quite rarely in children before the age of five. Often the characteristic is only noticed in adulthood.
It is good to note that lactose intolerance is different from congenital lactase deficiency or milk allergy. Congenital deficiency of the lactase enzyme is a very rare disease that is hidably inherited, which is found in an average of one newborn per year in Finland. In milk allergy, on the other hand, the symptoms are caused by milk protein.
potent sable
im tryna make something so instead of changing everything to 2 like
Upgrade1_Cost
Upgrade1_Boost
Upgrade1_NextBoost
and so on i tryna make it so u can like change a number at the top which is Upgradenum and it does it all for u like auto change upgrade1 to upgrade 2
peak depot
lassi
swift valley
good evening
or morning
@rugged root since you're a ReScript enjoyer:
(this is ReasonML though)
rugged root
<@98195144192331776> since you're a ReScript enjoyer:
Ooooo pretttttttyyyyy
It's just so clean looking
What go you messing with it?
swift valley
So apparently: BuckleScript diverged into ReasonML and ReScript and now Melange is a fork of ReScript that compiles ReasonML
I've never seen a language with more alive forks than this one
swift valley
What go you messing with it?
Building a full-stack project (for a portfolio)
Currently looking for a job and OCaml has all the fancy jobs
rugged root
Fair, especially since ReasonML is just a syntax alternative
I thought ReScript WAS BuckleScript, they just renamed it
Haven't heard of Melange before
swift valley
Melange is pretty new, like last-year new
swift valley
swift valley
Fair, especially since ReasonML is just a syntax alternative
Yeah, that's how I understand it now as well
swift valley
One thing I love about OCaml is just how simple the type checker is--strict enough to prevent errors and also smart enough to not require type annotations everywhere
However the errors are egregious
When stuff fails, it fails hard
swift valley
swift valley
Inherited from the mother of all functional languages
Haskell, meanwhile, figured :: is better for annotations lol
swift valley
I think that's so it's easier for the parser?
somber heath
Let's end a line with `;;`
rugged root
Is the ; used elsewhere?
Because if not then it shouldn't matter
They'd just need some sort of end indicator
Although I've never made a language sooooooo
swift valley
I think that's so it's easier for the parser?
Like:
let f () =
do_thing ();
do_thing ();
let g () =
Like an endicator.
swift valley
Could be interpreted as:
let f () =
do_thing ();
do_thing ();
let g () =
I can imagine back then they didn't have indentation-based parsing and it was more conventional to indent
rugged root
I suppose, but isn't OCaml also whitespace delimited?
Or... no
Okay, yeah
I see what you're talking about
It's for denoting end of blocks rather than expressions
swift valley
Yep
rugged root
BUT AT WHAT COST
swift valley
more semicolons than you could ever think to do with
๐
I gotta say, building projects has to be the best way I've dealt with impostor syndrome
rugged root
I didn't realize (or remember) that Lisp came out 13 years before ML did
MAN Lisp is old
swift valley
1958, I believe?
swift valley
The very beginning, yep
rugged root
But the design paper was released '60
swift valley
Imagine the world we could've gotten had we used a LISP for the web
swift valley
Code is as structural as markup
rugged root
@sour willow Yo
swift valley
Maybe we could've gotten all the fancy XML-in-JS web frameworks earlier ๐
sour willow
<@953699867841159268> Yo
wsg dude
rugged root
Not much, 'bout you
sour willow
Not much, 'bout you
been writing some stuff on java
rugged root
Maybe we could've gotten all the fancy XML-in-JS web frameworks earlier ๐
So many angle brackets
So many symbols in general I guess
rugged root
been writing some stuff on java
Neat. Enjoying it?
swift valley
(article
(header This is my header!)
(p Hey, Listen!)
(button :onClick Click Me))
something along those lines
rugged root
Okay, fair
sour willow
Neat. Enjoying it?
eh its not bad im in a situation where i gotta switch between coding alot and just leaving it for some months so its a nice cheat sheet
rugged root
```lisp
(article
(header This is my header!)
(p Hey, Listen!)
(button :onClic...
You thinking as HTML replacement specifically?
Because I could get behind that
sour willow
its like a tldr basically
swift valley
You thinking as HTML replacement specifically?
More of a web replacement entirely
rugged root
eh its not bad im in a situation where i gotta switch between coding alot and ju...
For sure. I try not to delete most of my code so that I have reference points
swift valley
LISP is flexible enough to handle HTML/JS/CSS
rugged root
Web kind of lives off of state and side-effects, though
Even Elm had to maintain state
sour willow
```lisp
(article
(header This is my header!)
(p Hey, Listen!)
(button :onClic...
looks like html if it was made by a 5 year old
swift valley
For sure, but mutable refs are a thing in FP
sour willow
i feel like tags are way easier to read than events all stacked on a line
swift valley
and a lotta LISPs are procedural
sour willow
For sure. I try not to delete most of my code so that I have reference points
i just learn new things then decide my code sucks so i just start again cause its easier
stark river
rugged root
How so, ryn?
swift valley
Wait really? That I didn't know
functional programming exists in a spectrum, ultimately
rugged root
True
I've gotten consistent enough that I do cleaner code. I would never say my code is perfectly clean, though
rugged root
functional programming exists in a spectrum, ultimately
Is Haskell ever really the "right" choice for a situation? I've always seen it and heard it described as a more academic language
sour willow
How so, ryn?
I feel like it has no advantages to offer.
typescript was simplier and more effective workflow
php and c# were a nice mix of good libaries and easy to understand code
java was robust libraries
erlang was for concurrency
and you have languages like go and rust that i see have no real specific usecase
rugged root
Where would you put C and C++ on that list?
sour willow
like go doesnt have the concurrency of erland nor the simplicity of python nor the libs of java
rugged root
@upper basin Later dude
The languages that you've compared it to aren't typically what you would normally compare it to
Go would be the closest
sour willow
Where would you put C and C++ on that list?
c and c++ were one of the languages ive never actually wanted to learn nor did so. so i'd rather not talk about it but i must say in the time i was reading about it i learnt a lot
rugged root
Rust and C/C++ are the ones you'd typically compare with each other. Both are lower level languages focused on general optimization with Rust having a much stronger (if not entire) focus on memory safety and reduction of runtime errors
rugged root
C/C++ have the benefits of being around for an incredibly long time and thus have fuck tons of tools, resources, existing libs, etc.
brittle flicker
C/C++ have the benefits of being around for an incredibly long time and thus hav...
ok
rugged root
@modest meteor Sup
sour willow
C/C++ have the benefits of being around for an incredibly long time and thus hav...
honestly still love php the most
swift valley
Is Haskell ever really the "right" choice for a situation? I've always seen it ...
I guess it really depends--a lot of engineers who become founders stick with it because of they genuinely have a passion for it. On Haskell being an academic language, it has the advantage of being malleable enough such one can choose what features they want from it.
modest meteor
yo
sour willow
such an underrated language for what it has to offer
swift valley
A lot of bleeding-edge type stuff is really useful for making sure stuff is correct before it even runs
modest meteor
how do I get video verified to share screen?
sour willow
i used to work with it for 5 years and there was always something new and interesting
but again i do backend development mainly so on java now
yet i highly doubt java could do way much more than what php can do for my specific work
rugged root
honestly still love php the most
They've improved PHP in a lot of ways. Hard to call it underrated, though. It's still one of the most common things out there on the web (if memory serves)
peak depot
sour willow
They've improved PHP in a lot of ways. Hard to call it underrated, though. It'...
i say underrated in the case people call it insecure
its just people being dumb and writing shit code
rugged root
It can be if written poorly. From what I've seen there have been significant improvements to the language to rectify that
sour willow
It can be if written poorly. From what I've seen there have been significant im...
its been many years since its been like that
its just you have to dig a bit deep to actually learn how to work with php
but even the articles ive seen on php have been awesome refrence them alot even when im using java its just great
but hard to find
rugged root
its just people being dumb and writing shit code
To that point, I think it should be made difficult to write insecure code
Common practice and defaults should be for security
sour willow
i feel like php for it being quite beginner friendly many people go to youtube or other stupid websites to learn about the language that they tend to have a very poor understanding
the docs are beatifuly written and the examples they provide are awesome
or atleast used to be
rugged root
Which is what something like Rust provides. And again, just to compare:
Rust and PHP are not typically going to be competing. Different use cases
Rust and TypeScript are not going to be competing. Different domains
Rust, C# and Java would/could be competing. Many times, Rust would be overkill unless you need that additional control and optimization
Erlang is its own specialized beast. It pretty much was born for, lives for, and dies for telecoms
Rust isn't going to be competing for the telecoms part
Most other things that C/C++ would cover? Rust is quite a reasonable alternative and getting more appealing year by year
Just like anything, right tool for the right job
sour willow
Rust isn't going to be competing for the telecoms part
what can rust do that other languages cant do as good
rugged root
Optimization and pretty much forcing the programmer to do best practices
sour willow
the language well from my experience isnt all that more hard than c++
rugged root
The compiler is aggressive
sour willow
true
rugged root
It will check for and harrass you about edge cases that you would normally ignore in other languages
And it's pretty damn thorough about it, too
sour willow
Java does it pretty well too
explains the error in alot of detial
and then you have go....
rugged root
I would say that Rust errors are probably some of the cleanest and easiest to understand, though
sour willow
yeah for the usecase for sure
rugged root
I mean that use case is compiling your code
These errors are popping up during compile time rather than you having to encountering them during runtime
That's one of the language's focuses
How many times have you run into a null pointer exception when you're running a Java program and it suddenly poops itself?
Not an insignificant amount, I would imagine
Rust does not have null
This isn't me exclusively shilling Rust, just that I found you saying it was without a usecase was.....uninformed
sour willow
How many times have you run into a null pointer exception when you're running a ...
IntelliJ points it out
rugged root
All the edge cases?
sour willow
yeah but not the compiler
sour willow
All the edge cases?
not sure from what ive seen its the only ide that its quite accurate
rugged root
Fair. I do love me some JetBrains stuff
sour willow
even with type checks its quite impressive
screams at me when i dont use .equals and easily fixes it
even with javas kinda weird nature in some areas its quite hard to find these errors
rugged root
To find them yeah, but I encounter them in programs we use at work on the regular
sour willow
i usually code with vscode and review with intelijj cause of those features
rugged root
Then you get a Java traceback that's around 50 lines tall
sour willow
Then you get a Java traceback that's around 50 lines tall
yeah but its really accurate
search it up and theres a really high chance its gonna fix your issue
rugged root
If I could get to the code ye
sour willow
but even the error is pretty easy to read
vocal basin
Rust isn't going to be competing for the telecoms part
"there's always an option to RIIR the Erlang runtime"
rugged root
RIIR?
vocal basin
rewrite it in rust
sour willow
i feel like its just java with useless features no one cares about
rugged root
You sure do love absolutes
@scarlet halo Sup
@devout kelp Sup
Sort of awake
Been a long day, will only be longer
How about on your end?
sour willow
C# was also a thing i really loved worked with it in a summer a few years ago gave me php vibes but it was awesome never tried .net though
rugged root
Neat
vocal basin
what can rust do that other languages cant do as good
embedded async
sour willow
if i recall properly you work with c# yourself ever tried it
rugged root
I've played with it for some projects
vocal basin
C# is what async/await comes from
rugged root
Wait really?
vocal basin
afaik
rugged root
Ah, found the chart: https://kotlinlang.org/docs/comparison-to-java.html
sour willow
Microsoft first released a version of C# with async/await in the Async CTP (2011). It was later officially released in C# 5 (2012). Haskell lead developer Simon Marlow created the async package in 2012. Python added support for async/await with version 3.5 in 2015 adding 2 new keywords, async and await .
seems like it
rugged root
Kotlin has quite a few things that it covers. It's not just a syntax alternative to Java
scarlet halo
i may or may not have installed arch linux on my school laptop ๐ฌ
rugged root
Microsoft first released a version of C# with async/await in the Async CTP (2011...
Huh, I'll be damned. That's a fun factoid
sour willow
Kotlin has quite a few things that it covers. It's not just a syntax alternativ...
yeah thats why i said useless features no one really cares about
vocal basin
Microsoft first released a version of C# with async/await in the Async CTP (2011...
you left out the paragraph about F# to support my claim further
vocal basin
yeah thats why i said useless features no one really cares about
"no one cares about" as in you don't care about
sour willow
who actually cares about if (a > b) a else b vs a>b? a: b
rugged root
I have a fascination for funcational style languages
Some things are better represented or implemented with a functional style in mind
Some things, mind you
vocal basin
I have a fascination for funcational style languages
> funcational
๐ฑ
sour willow
huh they have records included
rugged root
Oh no no, the Hush was to AF
sour willow
thought java included that
vocal basin
doesn't java have records too
rugged root
Best, at least it's available on most platforms now. .NET I mean
sour willow
doesn't java have records too
it should
rugged root
Seems like it was added in Java 14
Or wait...
Yeah, 14
Entirely fair
Just means you're uninvited to my birthday party
Oh wait wait
vocal basin
embedded async
, since basically no other popular enough language does it
rugged root
It was a preview feature in Java 14
Wasn't fully finalized until 16
Yep, no free cake for you
Exactly
@stuck furnace Suuuuup
Actually.... what version of Java do most companies use
8, right?
rugged root
So they wouldn't have access to a lot of those features
sour willow
again they have automatic getter and setter on properties listed on their website which is a feature lombok does in 1 line
vocal basin
> automatic setter
ew
rugged root
That's actually a good question, I don't know if there were breaking changes between the Java versions
sour willow
\> automatic setter
ew
seems like they have a feature not to include that
val simple: Int? // has type Int, default getter, must be initialized in constructor
rugged root
Would think there must be otherwise the change would have happened earlier
vocal basin
, since basically no other popular enough language does it
"if only hardware support for Java didn't fail as hard as it did, maybe there'd be another embedded async language. C# that is, not Java, because by now Microsoft would've stolen that idea too"
sour willow
still dont get the point of the language
rugged root
Is it not just getting a newer version of the JDK?
rugged root
still dont get the point of the language
I gave you a list. Null safety is a huge reason
vocal basin
still dont get the point of the language
the world is not obliged to stagnate just because Java exists
sour willow
I gave you a list. Null safety is a huge reason
yeah im looking at them
rugged root
Ah yeah, looks like the Java versions do have breaking changes between them
sour willow
ah looks like that have a similar approach to javascript
rugged root
@devout kelp If my coworker wasn't back here I'd be talking more
Actually.... I do have a delivery run
stuck furnace
Hello ๐
vocal basin
https://tenor.com/7VeS.gif
"okay, it may be perfect for different reasons, but it's still lisp"
vocal basin
"if only hardware support for Java didn't fail as hard as it did, maybe there'd ...
also JS already has hardware support, so it succeeded more than Java in this regard
whole bear
@scarlet halo Why'd you deafen?
sour willow
color scheme looks oddly familiar
rugged root
Looks good
swift valley
rugged root
I'll be back later
swift valley
It's the OCaml orange ๐
scarlet halo
dude my dads iMac has macos Mojave and we cant upgrade ๐ญ
warm gyro
Hello
warm gyro
I'll be back later
Sorry i didnt reply when You greeted me
rugged root
All good!
shrewd ibex
Wsg @turbid sandal
warm gyro
btw
shrewd ibex
@turbid sandal what projects you working on?
peak nacelle
Hi
stuck furnace
<@476543547210858506> Suuuuup
Sup ๐ Sorry I just saw this while checking my notifications. I somehow missed it earlier.
restive geyser
hello
misty vigil
@tropic lance
hey
can u give me the perms to stream coding
@mellow trellis
anyone............
tropic lance
can u give me the perms to stream coding
sure
cinder crown
i just completed though anyways ill stream next time when i code
looking foward to it
restive geyser
hey hi @obsidian dragon
obsidian dragon
hi
cinder crown
stark river
```lisp
(article
(header This is my header!)
(p Hey, Listen!)
(button :onClic...
how do you assign attributes in that?
somber heath
@whole bear ๐
whole bear
๐
scarlet halo
hey
somber heath
fast sparrow
Hey Opal, How're you doing? you feeling good?
@rugged root 
@peak depot where're piuku and kirppu?
I guess everybody's under the weather here.
peak depot
Analysis of log files directly from the storage location without copying to new locations.
Quantification of personal health data such as heart rate monitoring.
Reporting of electricity production and consumption using smart meters.
Optimizing driving data for bicycles and cars in modern traffic operations.
Preprocessing and cleaning of user-generated data for machine learning training.
fast sparrow
Centrifugal motion.
math is the language of science, you can't escape that. 
Physics: The universe's attempt to trip you up with everyday objects while explaining it all with math you never signed up for.
pulsar tundra
hi
somber heath
@frigid oasis @sinful nymph ๐
whole bear
Sup NERDS
fast sparrow
I kinda feel like I'm attending a lecture. wow, so detailed. 
somber heath
@ocean jasper ๐
rugged root
Hey Char
narrow jewel
what does this do ?
rugged root
Going to be a busy, printer filled day
whole bear
just me who started learning python yesterday and im trying so hard to understand what is being taught rn XD
rugged root
In fairness, I'm lost when it comes to all the quantum stuff
whole bear
not the best with regualar physics let alone this
rugged root
Last time I took physics was..... I think in high school?
pulsar tundra
not the best with regualar physics let alone this
yeah
whole bear
amazing how there are individuals that understand this stuff, never imagined our brains would have the power or capacity to process stuff like this
pulsar tundra
exactly
whole bear
the human brain is a very extraordinary thing
pulsar tundra
i saw somewhere that wthe human brain storage 1.2 billion average hard disks worth of data
rugged root
The brain is so vain. Any time we complement it and find it so deep and mysterious, it's literally just the brain praising itself
fast sparrow
big brain brian?
rugged root
Excatly
whole bear
big brain got big ego of itself
pretty good, just been getting projects online and then getting the advice from the forums when i need help
so far so good and productive
whole thing new
whole bear
wanna get an understanding of this and then move to sqf language and make scripts for a game called arma 3 <-- i do
whole bear
sqm and sqf
pulsar tundra
sorry then
whole bear
yea its complicated, but i been told i need to know the fundamentals before i get into it
whole bear
lmao
got my mate telling me, "just you wait, u think thats hard, wait till u get into binary "
upper basin
The lower you go in abstraction, it requires more explicit coding, so that's why.
whole bear
dont know how you could even understand it, its impossible to read rright?
upper basin
He took it to a new extreme though
yeah
"I'm gonna hack you now!"
insert teen titans go 0s 1s song
pulsar tundra
willow light
They work?!?
willow light
I recommend asking your primary care provider about that one.
peak depot
surgery or corset
whole bear
try and lean on the other side?
willow light
A programming discord server is probably not the best place to go for medical advice, just saying.
whole bear
could get steroids injected into your spine
pulsar tundra
just asking
rugged root
surgery or corset
Sounds like a gameshow
pulsar tundra
๐
rugged root
My intestines sound like the moaning and wailing of an elder god
mild quartz
hi
rugged root
mild quartz
aite
rugged root
That's... huh
Oh you think it's something fucked with using the assert keyword and np?
I love that there's so many like "Eh, it's equal enough"
stark river
๐ซ
rugged root
assert_almost_equal
assert_approx_equal
assert_array_almost_equal