discord-bots

[fast osprey]

So you think calling someone slow is a compliment?

[dry kelp]

Must aswell file a complaint of me calling you slow too.

[dry kelp]

Dude

you are here giving out "advices" and you cannot understand yourself simple common names.

I had expectations from a developer like you to understand the concept of a PRODUCTION branch

[fast osprey]

You keep saying I don't understand this and you're refusing to identify what it is you think I don't understand

[dry kelp]

Cause you are not understanding 😂

[fast osprey]

I told you I know what production means and you're insisting I don't

[dry kelp]

That's the wrose, cause you're not identifying it yourself, i bet dozed bucks rn there is people laughing at this.

[fast osprey]

Me saying I don't care what you call your branches is not the same as me saying I don't understand this word you're using

[stark ingot]

And automatic syncing effects this how?

[gritty inlet]

It's not related

[dry kelp]

That was supposed to be a joke...

[gritty inlet]

I know
But y'all started a new convo completely out of that context

What can I say..

[stark ingot]

I still don't see why it is not good practice.

This question still stands

[gritty inlet]

What if a user, on production or not, does many adjustments to a certain thing they're working on, and every few changes they restart the bot? Now you got the bot sending the PUT /commands request way too often - even if it doesn't actually hit the rate limit, you just spam an endpoint.
And personally I don't even think this is an edge case.

[grave sandal]

I'm actually working on something myself to write automated acceptance tests against discord bots/slash commands. Generally I don't think any better is possible in discord bot development publicly without manual testing, so it's not like other types of testing people can reasonably do but just ignore.

[dry kelp]

Sounds amazing, curious how that turns out.

[stark ingot]

If you are restarting the bot you likely expect a change though. There is no point to restart if you are planning on immediately changing something without using it. And yes it is 1 extra request for global commands and 1 extra request per guild with guild commands in the worst case scenario. It is only a few requests in comparison to bot start up

[dry kelp]

Huh? I was continuing what he said, i cannot take advices from a person that cannot understand what they're saying.

Proved since he wasn't able to understand his own words.

Holy production, production is production, not a pickle

🥒

[gritty inlet]

The only thing syncing your commands does is updating command attributes. It has nothing to do with changes I make in the code that are besides that. and I often find myself restarting very often especially when I'm making a design prototype with components, for example. But with other things too

[dry kelp]

Getting offended that badly upon being called slow, based on they're saying, it's just crazier.

[stark ingot]

A smart automatic syncing system only syncs commands that have changes to their definition

[gritty inlet]

You never mentioned that 💀

That changes my view of it, of course

[fast osprey]

"That badly" means "I don't like you insulting me"

Okay dude

[dry kelp]

Then re-read your words multiple times before saying something, and understand common arguments / words.

[grave sandal]

It's going fine so far. I'm between a bunch of things at the moment. I got serious about it when I saw someone else already did similar (not including slash commands) with this https://github.com/CraftSpider/dpytest and when I tried it it no longer worked. But I've gone over the code used pieces of it. The basic idea of both is just to take the discord client instance, replace the HTTP client (it has one with very specific methods that aren't specific to http) with a custom one, and to inject messages into where it processes them from. So it'll build a backend in memory of guilds, add messages when http calls go out, and pass the json data for them to where it would normally be parsed after reading it off a websocket. I'm in the very early stages and probably not explaining it well off the top of my head. But it's real event data back to the client with a fake backend. All in memory.

The use case right now is you can make a function to setup your bot instance, add your cogs, message handlers, etc, and write a test for what you want, like test_should_get_level_up_reply_on_first_message and create a guild add a user to it add the bot to it, have the user say something and see if the bot replies, while hiding all of the implementation details of the bot away, except for maybe database connection details.

[dry kelp]

I will be nice, but i have a limit.

[dry kelp]

That's so well explained, much appreciated, if you remember me let me know once this has a release, curious to see.

[fast osprey]

Ideally a testing suite would use mocking, but I don't think anyone has bothered fully mocking out the discord api given there really aren't any commercial use cases to justify that degree of investment

[grave sandal]

Mocking doesn't allow you to specify the what of your application and avoid the how though. You can't say your bot is fit for release anyway if you don't test it in a production like environment, as a philosophy to me with just the features I use it's worth the investment and the discord API is well documented and the discord library as well. I practically have a little mini discord domain model entirely in memory at the moment with just the parts I'm using of guilds, messages, users, and something to fire off events on any changes and send details to the client with default values for anything not used.

[fast osprey]

I don't think anyone seriously suggests that automated tests completely negate the need for manual checks

Just that mocking is probably the best tool we have for the automated side when you're dealing with an external api

[gritty inlet]

What you're doing is automating testing on your bot with demo users?

[grave sandal]

Firing events to the client with fake user data setup for each test, with a backend to match (In memory for now)

[gritty inlet]

Thought about the concept of this in the past but just turned it down in my head as it's too much work when I can usually test it with my user or demo variables

[grave sandal]

It becomes easy once you do it. If you can manually test you can write a good acceptance test if there is enough in place. It becomes easy and turns into stuff like "make guild" "make user" "add user to server", "send message as user" "wait for message back" if you want to go know your bot will reply to someone right you got to basically do that anyway and when you write tests a lot it becomes fast. (In general)

[gritty inlet]

Realistically I don't need to be afraid of my code failing in some various ways depending on the user or whatever object.
Your project has purpose but Idk how necessary it is

When I manually test, it's a matter of a few minutes or less. I don't do long term testing

Also some things genuinely need zero testing

[grave sandal]

My goal is to be able to change large amounts of code without worrying about any of it breaking or changing. I agree that you can get away with no testing, I imagine by limiting what you change, but it's not how I prefer to approach it. i would manually test of course to see if it looked right but I'd personally make progress faster with automated tests.

[gritty inlet]

Hmm, maybe that's just besides my use cases. You do deserve props tho

💔

At some point it starts saying the same things over and over again

[grave sandal]

The dpytest library deserves it really and anyone before me who emphasized acceptance testing before it for me to even be doing it. I'm literally using pieces of existing code that still work to get started.

[gritty inlet]

[grave sandal]

Randomness in general I've seen pick the same things a lot for this kind of stuff.

[gritty inlet]

It's actually quite simple to interact with

[grave sandal]

Ohhh, it's Gemini saying the same thing over and over again, I've noticed that.

[gritty inlet]

The instructions work quite well.

[gritty inlet]

Made it talk to itself lol

Bru

Yea it works

[fast osprey]

Sure hope that's the paid version of Gemini

[gritty inlet]

Question regarding discord.py:
I have a GroupCog. How do I add it as a child of an app_commands.Group

[gritty inlet]

I already know the deal with the data don't worry lol

[fast osprey]

The design of groupcog assumes the groupcog is the top level

[gritty inlet]

aw man

[fast osprey]

That doesn't really tell us if you're using the paid version does it

[grave sandal]

I agree that mocking is incredibly valuable. I've actually used it on important code when I was foregoing end to end testing. But there's also the setup code necessary to make sure everything works. (I can't think of a good comparison with discord so I'm gonna keep this more general) If I have a class that needs the current weather it shouldn't care where the weather comes from and I should be able to test that It works in isolation, and mock it out, but if it is supposed to get it from weather.com I gotta set it up with the right implementation for real, which I also have to test against a url to a real page to know if it will work (e.g. with wiremock), and when I do all of this I don't know that when input comes in to my application the right stuff will even be called. Mocking also doesn't necessarily help me when I do something and an event should be fired off, it's just not enough. My application can still break. Also I'm not saying automated testing should stop manual checks I'm just saying I can see why people might be so loose here.

[fast osprey]

There are always caveats when you consider this space is like 99.9% hobbyists and there's really no money involved

[gritty inlet]

How'd I add a Group to another Group when both are subclassed

Just set parent?

[fast osprey]

Just put everything into the class?

[gritty inlet]

class G1(Group):
   ...
   class G2(Group): ...```

You mean to say like this?

[fast osprey]

class Parent(Group):
  middle = Group(....)
  @middle.command()
  async def ....

[gritty inlet]

Ah so middle shall not be subclass

[fast osprey]

You could stitch this together if you really wanted but I suggest this way

!d discord.app_commands.Group.add_command

[unkempt canyon]

discord.app\_commands.Group.add\_command

add_command(command, /, *, override=False)```
Adds a command or group to this group’s internal list of commands.

[fast osprey]

is the alternative

[gritty inlet]

Yeah knew about that one

Thanks 🙏🏻

[grave sandal]

I'm not sure how much I intend with this publicly. It's really just an experiment right now, I do have a simple bot I have to make and I'm not making it without. I'll definitely make public whatever code I have , say something in here and answer any questions but beyond that no promises.

[fast osprey]

You could also do this with a separate subclassing for middle too and just

class Parent(Group):
  middle = Middle()

class Middle(Group):
  @command()
  ...

But that feels unnecessarily verbose

[gritty inlet]

def commands_payload_from_tree(tree: app_commands.CommandTree, /, walk: bool = True):
    """Returns a list of all commands as dicts, used for TopGG's commands feature."""
    func = tree.walk_commands if walk else tree.get_commands
    return json.dumps([cmd.to_dict(tree=tree) for cmd in func()], indent=4)```

Something I made for <https://top.gg/bot/bot_id/dashboard/commands>

[dry kelp]

Are you familiar how to remove top.gg default gradient?

[gritty inlet]

Show me a screenshot of what you mean

[dry kelp]

I've had a code that was removing it a while back, while discussing with mimu bot developers, they've helped me out.

So you know top.gg has a default gradient appearing onto the pages, which is customizable, default red.

Like a red glow top page.

What i mean is removing the gradient from your own bot's page.

[gritty inlet]

You know you can edit the whole page with css, right?

[dry kelp]

Yes, mimu owners gave me a code to remove gradient, but it doesn't work anymore, i haven't been updating my top.gg

[gritty inlet]

I can quickly figure it out with inspect, wait

[dry kelp]

It just looks lame when you make your own page fully built with css, and custom colors.

having the default top.gg gradient

let's say i'll follow my style, having black white and gray shades

that gradient just makes it look terrible

[gritty inlet]

Weirdly they let you remove anything with that css

lol

[dry kelp]

🤣

I just had a snippet that worked like a year ago

If you find out let me know, that's a huge improvement

[gritty inlet]

link the typing animation at the top is cool

[dry kelp]

that is indeed

[gritty inlet]

anyway i dont want this to look like self promo so ill just delete

[dry kelp]

I don't think it does, u good.

see, that top red gradient

looks horrible if you customize your whole page.

"flashy gradient" 🤣

[gritty inlet]

Im figuring it out atm

[dry kelp]

Oh im tripping

it does work

[gritty inlet]

The css?

[dry kelp]

Yeh, wait ill show u

body > div[class^="sc-"],
body > div[class*="sc-"] {
  background: none !important;
  background-image: none !important;
  box-shadow: none !important;
}

this removes any gradient backgrounds from top gg containers

[gritty inlet]

I found it lul

[dry kelp]

body > div > svg,
body > div[class^="sc-"] > svg,
body > div[class*="sc-"] > svg {
  display: none !important;
}

and this hides top.gg default color at the top

[gritty inlet]

Ah, "any". I found the element for the one at the top

[dry kelp]

try them out in ur current css

on the bot

shit finna look so much smoother, that gradient is terrible placed on bot's pages

I js had a quick chat like a year ago with a mimu dev, they helped me, but probably don't know about my existance 😂

[gritty inlet]

There's actually no other gradients

[dry kelp]

this shit like a year old man

i js received it 😂

but try it up, it's actually cool

[gritty inlet]

.w-full.h-screen.inset-0.-z-10.absolute {
        background: none !important;
}```

Is what I came up with, does the job

[dry kelp]

even better

Mind if i use that?

[gritty inlet]

It seems in the css you had it covers more elements

Idk which

[gritty inlet]

Go ahead (:

[dry kelp]

I mean yeah

[dry kelp]

But if yours removes the gradient, it's savage

[gritty inlet]

Yuh
You can now put any color there to change the whole background

Or if you want a different-color gradient, I can do that too

[waxen quest]

i love this anyone wanne rate my dc bot script

[dry kelp]

Yeah, im familiar, you can change the whole page, even texting, it can be savage.

[dry kelp]

Go ahead

[gritty inlet]

Actually not the whole page's background. That's a different element. It's only a section at the top.

[dry kelp]

I just discontinued my bot, and im creating a new v2, it will be absolute savage can't lie, i'll show you something in a bit.

[waxen quest]

its on my github https://github.com/Fersspvp/python/blob/main/fritztdiscordbot/fritztbot.py

[dry kelp]

One mistake there currently is, im "uploading" images, instead of using urls, kind of delains my containers.

[dry kelp]

Just send snippets code.

[gritty inlet]

I like this actually

[waxen quest]

wahts that gng

[dry kelp]

It might suit some bots tho

But some nah

Let's gossip a bit

what you think about carl bot developers?

[waxen quest]

me6 is ass

[waxen quest]

idk but carl is usefull sometimes

[dry kelp]

x = 1
y = 2

if x == y:
  print("will this print (no)")

as in posting your codes like this

[waxen quest]

ahhh ok how i do it like u like the box thing

[dry kelp]

put small ones, i don't wanna read a whole file

[waxen quest]

@app_commands.describe(member="The member to ban", reason="Reason for the ban")
@app_commands.check(rollen_check)
async def ban(interaction: discord.Interaction, member: discord.Member, reason: str = "No reason provided"):
    if member == interaction.user:
        await interaction.response.send_message("You cannot ban yourself.", ephemeral=True)
        return

    if member == interaction.guild.me:
        await interaction.response.send_message("I cannot ban myself.", ephemeral=True)
        return

    if interaction.user.top_role <= member.top_role:
        await interaction.response.send_message("You cannot ban a member with an equal or higher role.", ephemeral=True)
        return

    try:
        await member.ban(reason=reason)
        await interaction.response.send_message(f"Member {member} has been banned.\nReason: {reason}")
    except discord.Forbidden:
        await interaction.response.send_message("I lack the permissions to ban this member.", ephemeral=True)
    except discord.HTTPException:
        await interaction.response.send_message("Failed to ban the member due to an unexpected error.", ephemeral=True)

@ban.error
async def ban_error(interaction: discord.Interaction, error):
    if isinstance(error, app_commands.errors.CheckFailure):
        await interaction.response.send_message("You do not have the required role to use this command.", ephemeral=True)
    else:
        await interaction.response.send_message("An unexpected error occurred.", ephemeral=True)```

this iss jst for ban

[dry kelp]

pffffff

[quick gust]

You don't really need an application to ban someone from a server when Discord already gives you that ability

[dry kelp]

Why do people still do @cmd.error that's something inside of 2019 youtube tutorials

[waxen quest]

tbh my code looks like shit

[waxen quest]

i just did that bc i wanted to

[quick gust]

Understandable

[gritty inlet]

Idk them

[dry kelp]

Honestly, there are various discussions, most of coms, that are huge, and reason why bleed bot made hella bread from discord, it's cause all of these features, are implemented onto bots.

[gritty inlet]

Half of the moderation features are now covered by the Discord client and are unnecessary on bots

[quick gust]

I'd be careful using that word, not even sure what that means in this context...

[waxen quest]

this was also my first dc bot so i used chatgpt to help me learn the module and waht i can do with it

[gritty inlet]

Yeah edit that out

[dry kelp]

So, there is soomething i want to tell you.

[waxen quest]

waht is it

[dry kelp]

chatgpt codes based on your prompt, in can be good, it can be bad.

You need to have your own experience into coding, to be using chatgpt properly.

chatgpt is frying people's brain thinking they code.

[waxen quest]

i didnt just copy and paste i used it to explain it to me

[dry kelp]

It can be good if you have experience, and you already know the structure in your head, it can be a lot more productive.

[waxen quest]

ik the strucutures

[dry kelp]

And im not talking about a prompt e.g "Create me a ban command"

[gritty inlet]

I started with chatgpt, 2 years ago xD
I remember telling it "make me a command that ..."
Will not shame people for doing that. But eventually you should get good enough to grow out of that "phase"

[dry kelp]

Tell me 3 python features within 10 seconds

5

[gritty inlet]

😭

[dry kelp]

0

time expired, sorry

[quick gust]

wild

[dry kelp]

that's exactly why beginners into coding world should avoid using chatgpt

[gritty inlet]

depends how they use it

[dry kelp]

and not just chatgpt, but any AI models

[waxen quest]

fr

[waxen quest]

wdym with features

[dry kelp]

If you have your own experience, and you know structure, and if you can atleast define 3 feature of python, it could work 🤣

[gritty inlet]

Code completions can actually help people. But there's a difference

[dry kelp]

exactly as i was saying tho

chatgpt is brain frying

[quick gust]

I second this

saves me a lot of manual labour

[dry kelp]

e.g dataclasses

[waxen quest]

gng ik how to do stuff but idk all the words im not that good in englisch

[gritty inlet]

I got to a point when I often turn off my code completions when I genuinely want to enjoy a code block that I already know how to make xDxD

[dry kelp]

__slots__ another beautiful python feature

[gritty inlet]

Prove it to me

[waxen quest]

ye nah idk that

[gritty inlet]

I doubt that

[waxen quest]

but i can made scripts bymyself

[dry kelp]

Why? You don't like saving your projects memory?

[gritty inlet]

What's the point of disallowing users to add attrs to a class

Like i get it

[dry kelp]

Studies prove it can save 30-40%

[gritty inlet]

But I don't get it at the same time

Nah you made that up

[dry kelp]

it's just, beautiful

i didn't 😭 i swear

[gritty inlet]

Don't glaze

[dry kelp]

It's good!

[gritty inlet]

Faiiir

[dry kelp]

Ok ok, what about __all__, have you been using it?

[gritty inlet]

Yeah (ok u got me its similar)

Yuh

[dry kelp]

Oh ok good good

I was about to dummy explain it

😭

[gritty inlet]

Speaking of that, anyone else here used Discord's webhook events?

Good feature

[dry kelp]

not me having that onto antinukes

[gritty inlet]

I made a wrapper that I'm very proud of

[dry kelp]

it's just

[quick gust]

Is it public?

[gritty inlet]

Holy docstring

[dry kelp]

lovely

[quick gust]

Or did you make it for your personal use

[gritty inlet]

I keep saying I'll put it on my github but idk

[gritty inlet]

Originally I made a dumb code for personal usage, this one shall be public ig

f it ill put it right now

[quick gust]

Awesome

[dry kelp]

exactly, so chatgpt is not helping you a lot.

[gritty inlet]

Is it "Pythonic" to use underscore in module name?

[dry kelp]

ig

[gritty inlet]

For now I'll put it on my Github as dumb code, not planning to make it an actual module rn

[dry kelp]

https://peps.python.org/pep-0008/

check pep 8

[dry kelp]

^

[fallen halo]

Yo

[gritty inlet]

Gurt

[dry kelp]

[fallen halo]

I'm new, and looking forward to knowing the way things are done here

[dry kelp]

Into python, or discord bot's specifically?

[waxen quest]

helloworld("print)

[fallen halo]

I'm new to both of them

[quick gust]

!resources

[unkempt canyon]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fallen halo]

And the ui of discord is strange to me

[gritty inlet]

https://github.com/TheServerit/webhook_events
Tried my best with README.md 🙏🏻

[gritty inlet]

If I see that people like it (what's the chance...), I'll make it pipable (:

[timber dragon]

good work!

[waxen quest]

i think they will like it

[gritty inlet]

Waiting for Discord to document Entitlement Delete & Update

[dry kelp]

bro

the entitlements are so ass

[gritty inlet]

Not using them personally (I can't, ineligible country), but for my wrapper

[dry kelp]

luckly i can, and i use them, but they're shit

[narrow hazel]

Do you mean something like this?

[fast osprey]

where is setup_hook in there?

[narrow hazel]

I have no idea what that is

This?

Cuz this is the only info on like 6 websites I just tried to look through

[fast osprey]

yeah, it's a method you can implement in a bot subclass

[narrow hazel]

yeah i havent messed with subclassing in a way I understand it so im just not gonna risk screwing up my cogs for some errors im already raising through try and except

[fast osprey]

subclassing (OOP) is an extremely fundamental concept in python generally and these libraries specifically

[narrow hazel]

I never learned OOP i just dove straight in

[fast osprey]

You are doing yourself a massive disservice in avoiding it

[narrow hazel]

I can look at a tutorial but I doubt I'll understand it

I learned discord.py just by memorizing patterns of code and adjusting it to what I need all your terminology is just another language to me

[fast osprey]

If I tell you that is not an effective way of gaining skill or learning, would you listen?

If you don't share common terminology or fundamental concepts, people aren't going to be able to help you. You're just asking people to write code for you at that point

[narrow hazel]

probably but I got my bot working with systems I wanted

I got a lot of stuff to work

[burnt quiver]

json as a db 🤨

[narrow hazel]

yeah Im not learning SQL or using a DB

thats beyond me

[fast osprey]

With that attitude sure

[burnt quiver]

I mean ig you learn file handling all that, but just so you know it's not a db u want in the future

when u learn SQL you'll really see the diff

[narrow hazel]

It's not like I just looked at it and didn't try, I spent a few hours looking at tutorials, following and trying to understand but eh I couldnt get it to work nor understand it

[fast osprey]

What precisely do you mean by "tutorials"

[narrow hazel]

as well as any youtube videos I could find on any info

[fast osprey]

YouTube is made up shit

By mouth breathers in their basement trying to get Internet attention

Terrible educational resource

[narrow hazel]

dont talk about brocode like that, he taught me some coding stuff

[fast osprey]

And how do you know that stuff is accurate, complete, or best practice?

[narrow hazel]

Cuz they work

And in my book that'd the best kind of code

[fast osprey]

You think they work

[narrow hazel]

meh I just learned what subclasses are but I dont see its usecase

[fast osprey]

It's a way of taking an existing class and either overriding parts of it or adding on additional things

[narrow hazel]

yeah idk maybe its cuz im not in a developer mindset but I dont see the usecase for that

[fast osprey]

You have one right in front of you

You have an existing class (Bot) and you want everything it does normally except for overriding one thing (setup_hook)

[narrow hazel]

btw quick question does anyone know why my discord.CustomActivity works in VSC but when I move it to my server it just doesnt?

Im using a task.loop to achieve it with an array of statuses

status = discord.Status.idle

@bot.event
async def on_ready():
        update_status.start()
        try:
            synced = await bot.tree.sync()
            print(f"Synced {len(synced)} command(s)")
            for s in synced:
                print(f"✅ {s}")
        except Exception as e:
            print(f"Error syncing commands: {e}")

@tasks.loop(seconds=30)
async def update_status():
        statuses = [
          discord.CustomActivity(name='Cats > People'),
        ]
        current = update_status.current_loop % len(statuses)
        await bot.change_presence(activity=statuses[current], status=status)

[narrow hazel]

wait isn't persistent buttons is a subclass of the command?

class persistant_buttons(commands.Cog)
  def __init__(self, bot):
    self.bot = bot
    
  async def function_name(self):
    self.bot.add_view(other_class_name())
    ```

await bot.cog_add(persistant_buttons(bot))

[woeful hill]

class A:
    ...

class B(A):
    ...

B is a subclass of A

[narrow hazel]

yeah

Oh wait it would be a subclass of the component not the command

My dumb ahh

[burnt quiver]

as of now I don't think there's a way to check the total size of the embed in chars

lemme see if I can write a func

[gritty inlet]

There's no builtin but it's easy to make

[burnt quiver]

def find_total_chars(embeds: list[discord.Embed]) -> int:
    total_chars = 0
    for embed in embeds:
        if embed.title:
            total_chars+= len(embed.title)
        if embed.description:
            total_chars+= len(embed.description)
        if embed.fields:
            for field in embed.fields:
                if field.name:
                    total_chars+= len(field.name)
                if field.value:
                    total_chars+= len(field.value)
        if embed.author and embed.author.name:
            total_chars+= len(embed.author.name)
        if embed.footer and embed.footer.text:
            total_chars+= len(embed.footer.text)
    return total_chars
```Should work, and I believe values can be an empty string here? so Im using a falsey check instead of a `is None` check

well techinically using is a is None check would work and the len() of emtpty string would return 0 either ways

[gritty inlet]

Aw man

[burnt quiver]

no ui

!d discord.Embed.fields

[unkempt canyon]

discord.Embed.fields

property fields```
Returns a [`list`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#list) of `EmbedProxy` denoting the field contents.

See [`add_field()`](https://discordpy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/api.html#discord.Embed.add_field) for possible values you can access.

If the attribute has no value then `None` is returned.

[gritty inlet]

Oh right

If I was on pc I'd check if those are empty attrs

[burnt quiver]

oh so it returns None instead of an empty string, interesting

wait nvm that's right

[gritty inlet]

Falsy checks cover None anyway

[burnt quiver]

ye

np!

i doubt danny would implement a utils helper func for this since it's pretty simple

lemme see

wait wait

LMAO IM STUPID

just do len(your_embed)

it will return the total chars

yes

Yep

[gritty inlet]

Yea they got that and more operations for embed, like eq and bool

IIrc bool is True when embed is not empty

!d discord.ui.LayoutView.content_length

[unkempt canyon]

discord.ui.LayoutView.content\_length

content_length()```
[`int`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#int): Returns the total length of all text content in the view’s items.

A view is allowed to have a maximum of 4000 display characters across all its items.

[dry kelp]

[dry kelp]

Hey, you shouldn't run anything on_ready

That event can fire multiple times.

Since you were so smart yesterday, create your own safe_message while making an enum with maximum discord's limit.

And you check the same_message with the enum created with maximum discord's limit for messages.

[burnt quiver]

wha

[dry kelp]

?

[burnt quiver]

^

[dry kelp]

Are you reading what i've said?

He can simply make a enum class containing the max characters for embed / message

[burnt quiver]

what why do u need an enum

[dry kelp]

a class that could potetially be re-used in a longer term.

[burnt quiver]

just use it as a constant

[dry kelp]

To give it the max len of characters of message / embed.

[dry kelp]

If you think that's best practice, keep on doing so!

[burnt quiver]

also what safe_message

[dry kelp]

cause this definitely ain't

[burnt quiver]

seems like u aren't reading what I said 😭

[burnt quiver]

THIS MESSAGE

[burnt quiver]

THIS MESSAGE

[dry kelp]

A safe message function can be various, but in this case he can make it in order to verify the message content to max characters.

[dry kelp]

What you've shown him it's such a bad practice code.

Imagine running that every single time into your code.

terrible choice, if you help people, atleast tell them the right ways of doing a thing.

[burnt quiver]

what's wrong with len(embed)

[dry kelp]

And if you cannot understand the logic of having an enum with max characters, just don't talk.

[burnt quiver]

uh ok

[dry kelp]

I’m not doing len(embed) for the sake of it. The point of the enum is to centralize Discords known hard limits (like max title length = 256, description = 4096, total embed = 6000, etc.), so I never risk exceeding them. This is clean, maintainable, and avoids magic numbers sprinkled everywhere. It also makes future validation checks easier and prevents runtime errors due to Discord rejecting oversized payloads.

[burnt quiver]

guess what the user asked

Hey, how do I check the size of an embed message?
I know the total size can't exceed 6,000 characters.
For example, I want to send 10 embeds in one message, but if any of them exceeds this limit when added to the rest, they would be skipped.

[dry kelp]

.

[burnt quiver]

?

[dry kelp]

Exactly! Cause he definitely wanted to make sure to not EXCEED it!

so message will always be safe and available

so what i've said is FURTHER validations

[burnt quiver]

not sure what you're saying here lmao so I'm just gonna stop this cuz the user already got what they need, .i.e, "Hey, how do I check the size of an embed message?", which is using the len function

[dry kelp]

Im not sure what you're saying

How to validate his code using enums, but if it's so hard understanding the whole point of an enum, might aswell consider quitting development tbh (You).

[dry kelp]

😂

Good one

[timber dragon]

Thanks

[dry kelp]

Im still working on that menu i've showed u yesterday

I'll ping u once i have a finalized prototype, it looks so cool

[timber dragon]

Nicee

[stark ingot]

There are some good videos, you just have to be careful. I for example, learned OOP on YouTube

[dry kelp]

Thanks to @stark ingot i was able to see this, it's actually easier than it seems to setup, and you don't need to learn sql that complex way, there are ORMs you can use.

They generate the initial init of database file, they allow you to migrate, downgrade database after changes.

e.g you can use PostgreSQL, which is used for long term data storing, and most common across discord bots.

In order to setup the connection, you'll have to learn that on your own, but there are various ways.

It only depends if you use windows or linux, most common vps used is ubuntu (linux), so if you plan on hosting your bot, you just have to download psql locally

and just create your table, which is the only thing you have to learn.

and easiest way it's just granting all permissions to table you create lol

All this doesn't even require a day, but a few hours to set up properly.

or if you use windows, localhost, just download pgadmin

or you can use Docker, most common tool across developers, and you can just literally run the database on it, without downloading anything 😂

just passing some default values you'll use into your .env or settings, wherever you get your settings from

[stark ingot]

You can even connect to remote databases (on your VPS) with PG admin on your PC

[dry kelp]

exactly

i just feel like using json it's more work than making your life easier 💀

and it ain't even a db

[gritty inlet]

Jsons are definitely easier to interact with but are just not meant to serve as a db

[dry kelp]

nah, all that write, open logic is just terrible

it's just easier to manage a orm at that point

Model.create_or_update()

like ong 🤣

[gritty inlet]

Anyway I switched some of my code to use an ORM, it works fine, I had a few times where two processes interfered with each other and caused a db lock though

[quick gust]

jsons are fine if your data is static

[dry kelp]

Tell that to Dyno bot

or Mee6

[gritty inlet]

I was told that enabling WAL should help against this

[quick gust]

?

[dry kelp]

What ORM do you use?

after trying some, i went for sqlalchemy

tortoise orm has migrations failures if not handled in a certain way, it's harder to understand

[gritty inlet]

I use a lib called sqlalchemy that interacts with sqlite

Yuh

[gritty inlet]

How does that work though

[dry kelp]

I don't know, i believe that's something related to SQLite

[quick gust]

WAL writes the database transaction to a log file first

[gritty inlet]

I have 2 py processes that use the same db file, idk if that's exactly why it may happen though

[gritty inlet]

Temp file?

[quick gust]

Not really

it needs to be persistent so that the transactions aren't lost in cases of a crash

[gritty inlet]

Does it also make it auto retry on db lock? or must i manually do that
unless it really ensures db locks don't happen

[quick gust]

afaik it significantly reduces the database locks (if not completely remove them)

you could just set a busy_timeout PRAGMA if you want sqlite to auto-retry

[gritty inlet]

I moved to a db BECAUSE of race conditions so I really hate still having them

But tbh it's probably not such good practice to save to disk each operation, maybe I'm wrong
But due to my RPI's low specs I don't want to overload the ram with stuff like redis

[quick gust]

I really don't think that two different programs should be both accessing a single database file simultaneously

[gritty inlet]

That's right but Idk how else I should implement it
I have a process for topgg webhook events, it saves the time of when the user voted in the db

Then my bot process checks, on command execution for example, if 12 hours have passed since the said time and if so, set that field to None, etc

I could possibly make the 12 hours check in the first process, maybe in another thread
But the check still has to be done on the bot process if I want to actually use the information

[quick gust]

why do you need two different database connections for that

"race conditions" can happen regardless of if it's the same or a different process

[gritty inlet]

How'd it be possible to use one across 2 running processes

Sorry for mention

[quick gust]

No worries, but I just start an aiohttp server inside a Cog which has access to all the attributes of my Bot, including the database wrapper - which manages the database operations

Or just make your life easier and use topggpy

!pypi topggpy

[unkempt canyon]

topggpy v1.4.0

A simple API wrapper for Top.gg written in Python.

Released on <t:1636189849:D>.

[gritty inlet]

That doesn't matter, what matters is where the process runs

[gritty inlet]

Is the aiohttp server not blocking?

Do you run on a separate thread?

[quick gust]

Of course...

[woeful hill]

Cant you just store the last voted timestamp to the db and then check them when the user use the command the next time

[gritty inlet]

So having a single process with the topgg webhook events being on a second thread should do it?

[quick gust]

Does it for me, haven't run into a race condition for the past 2 years

[gritty inlet]

That's what I do

[gritty inlet]

And do both threads save and read?

[woeful hill]

You done it different than my approach tho

[quick gust]

Yes

[woeful hill]

You set it as voted or not
I set it as last voted
🤔

[gritty inlet]

I'll try it then, what do you use for running on another thread ( )

[woeful hill]

Am i reading it wrong

[gritty inlet]

Not bool, rather timestamp only

[quick gust]

In fact, I have more than 2 aiohttp apprunners that access the same database file

[quick gust]

asyncio

[gritty inlet]

I'll probably just use uvicorn

to_thread or threadsafe

Never done that before lul

[fast osprey]

Wut. It's totally fine to have two processes access the same sqlite db, you don't need to migrate them into the same process

That's an anti pattern, you want separate processes

[quick gust]

Not directly? I mean it's fine if theres another layer that queues/manages the transactions, which the two processes communicate with, but both processes shouldn't be accessing the database file directly

Or am I wrong

[gritty inlet]

Why would I be getting the db locks though
Especially considering I have low user count so saves are not common at all

And is enabling WAL the best thing I can do about it?

[quick gust]

tbf then there's probably something else wrong with your code. The transactions don't take long enough for you to have frequent db locks

[fast osprey]

You should have WAL mode enabled regardless

This is why libraries like asqlite enable it by default

[gritty inlet]

And does the file it uses just keep growing

I mean to say does it get auto cleared anyhow

[fast osprey]

WAL doesnt grown indefinitely, no afaik

[quick gust]

Ideally it doesn't

[dry kelp]

@gritty inlet Is there a specific reason why you've selected using SQLite?

[gritty inlet]

Recommendations

[gritty inlet]

As of my code Idk, this is my base setup

[dry kelp]

Umm, i see, most of the people i work with, we all use PostgreSQL for discord bots, or any long term data storage.

And honestly, it's just so much better, and no need to do all that.

[fast osprey]

SQLite is perfectly fine

[gritty inlet]

Then an example operation

[dry kelp]

postgreSQL doesn't make u go thru all that shit.

[finite salmon]

wym by long term data storage? All dbms can handle long term data storage

[dry kelp]

check specifically postgresql.

[gritty inlet]

Anything here that can potentially cause race conditions? Doesn't look like it to me

[fast osprey]

What is "all that shit" which SQLite "makes you do"

[dry kelp]

And you should go take a walk, considering you don't know what a production branch usage is for.

[woeful hill]

SQLite and PosgreSQL are very similar

[fast osprey]

I asked you a pretty simple question and you're dodging it

Just to insult me

[dry kelp]

postgreSQL doesn't make you all that WAL part, 2 managers or whatsoever they're talking about.

Im not speaking about specifically related usage of postgresql or slqlite

[woeful hill]

In my use i only change $1 to ? And the same postgres sql i use run perfectly on sqlite

[dry kelp]

Because you can't understand common words, something you've done yesterday, and in my eyes you just look like a yapper, sorry.

and i don't care if you take it as an insult, or not, im telling the man to try postgresql, since he might enjoy it more.

It's preferences.

[fast osprey]

And we're asking you to justify why and instead of answering you just insult me

[dry kelp]

I will justify questions coming from them, not you.

You came into my subject out of nowhere.

[fast osprey]

It's not "your" subject. You're speaking in an open forum

[dry kelp]

Right, it's a topic i specifically wanted to discuss with @woeful hill and @gritty inlet, is there a problem im not invloving you in it?

ooffff, you felt left out, im sorry, here take a pickle 🥒

[fast osprey]

I'm discussing it too, and that doesnt give you a right to just insult me

If you don't want to engage that's your decision

[dry kelp]

Not in the postgreSQL topic, sorry, u outta it.

[fast osprey]

I'm not

[dry kelp]

Then keep talking to yourself, you'll feel ignored even more, but i don't have an extra pickle.

[gritty inlet]

I don't really agree, people can ask questions about something in a public channel
But no reason to keep going with this

[fast osprey]

I'm not talking to myself

[dry kelp]

Sorry, it's personal with him.

[gritty inlet]

Alright then...

[fast osprey]

Anyways, if you want an in depth discussion on databases that's better served in #databases . But SQLite is completely fine

[dry kelp]

If you do want to try postgresql, and not go against similiar problems, ping me or dm me.

It was meant to be a recommandation, not saying one is better than other.

[fast osprey]

"One is not better than the other"

[gritty inlet]

Hm I see the WAL logic now
But thing is, I want changes to take effect pretty much immediately
So saving every x amount of data might not be good unless it's a low amount, still Idk

[fast osprey]

They will, WAL doesnt introduce a meaningful delay

There's an eye opening page on the SQLite website about how sqlite operates at scale. It's designed for what you're describing

[gritty inlet]

How come
When I get from the db, it'd only have what's already there and not things that haven't been saved yet

[dry kelp]

But, consider that in discord bots, postgrelsql might be a better choice in my opinion after trying both, very small knowledge into using "SQLite", i can start off by saying the concurrency, postgresql is designed for multiple concurent read/write operations, while sqlite it's like single file locked under multiple writes, different is that postgresql won't choke under load.

[fast osprey]

You're imagining WAL like some slow queue that gets popped from occasionally

That's not how it works

[gritty inlet]

My situation: I want users to vote and right after that have the benefits of it

Isn't it a save each x amount of data

[vocal plover]

As a somewhat side-comment, frankly you're not building something where the speed of one database vs another actually matters. Build software first, scale it when you need to, because most software never actually needs to scale

[dry kelp]

about scalability, SQLite is used for small projects, meanwhile postgreSQL can scale milions of rows, heavy traffic.

[fast osprey]

SQLite is not only used for "small" projects

[vocal plover]

SQLite is used for some massive thing with huge scale, and it functions perfectly well in that capacity

[dry kelp]

it doesn't even have async driver

[fast osprey]

The SQLite website itself runs on a sqlite database and thar incurs orders of magnitude more usage than you ever will

It does have async drivers wut

[vocal plover]

it's the most used database in the world for a reason, it works well, it works fast

[dry kelp]

??? does it?

[fast osprey]

asqlite and aiosqlite are the most popular

[dry kelp]

Oh shit, my bad, i thought it didn't

[burnt quiver]

why is bro always finding a way to argue with someone

🤦‍♂️

[dry kelp]

that's my mistake there, read above too.

[gritty inlet]

Oh my mistake, it may be that but other operations on the same connection can access that "unsaved data", can they?

[dry kelp]

quick question tho

@fast osprey

What if app crashes mid write?

file corruption is inevitable i believe, using SQLite

[fast osprey]

https://sqlite.org/wal.html

No, SQLite does atomic writes

[dry kelp]

mmmm

How about the queries?

or features?

Last time i tried it, it was absolute basic, compared to postgresql having jsonfields, enums, indexing (also partial indexing), triggers etc.

lame

[vocal plover]

postgres certainly has more features than sqlite but uh, indexing? that's pretty much universal across any real database

[dry kelp]

i just brought it in

[gritty inlet]

Choose your DB based on its features and your needs, you don't always need something advanced

[dry kelp]

^

ngl, for postgresql

is also complex

[vocal plover]

sharding most databases is complex, sharding postgres certainly isn't a walk in the park either

[dry kelp]

im just trying to find a positive + for sqlite, which i can't.

[woeful hill]

Do you need what it called the "scale" of the program

[fast osprey]

SQLite requires vastly less overhead and moving a database between infrastructure is incredibly easy

[vocal plover]

also refer to my earlier message: your software probably isn't ever going to reach the scale where that matters, and if on the off chance it does you can migrate at that stage, if you design everything you make to work like large scale software from the get-go you won't be able to get anything done

[woeful hill]

If you write the code solely based on one thing that you cant change when it scale, its the design problem, i have it myself with some libraries

[fast osprey]

People love solving for problems they don't have and probably never will

[dry kelp]

Since you all are trying to ride SQLite so much, over PostgreSQL, make a clear label of why you think SQLite would be eventually a best practice.

In complex projects / relatively small

I am actually curious to see.

Me personally, i would NEVER use SQLite into a complex projects.

[woeful hill]

Im saying sqlite is on pair with postgres

[vocal plover]

like, to be 100% honest, 99% of people who have ever sent a message asking for help with data storage in this channel could probably run their database off a single json file and rarely if ever experience an issue with it. It's not a good idea and you really should use a database, but modern computers and data storage are phenomenally powerful and reliable

[woeful hill]

I have never said one is absolutely better than the other

[dry kelp]

True 😂

[woeful hill]

I dont care about the scale, my program have no users, and if i do, i will change it when i feel i need the changes

[dry kelp]

I don't know, you guys just jumped on me saying SQLite has that that and that, which is trying to prove a point as in it being better.

I understand at a small scale, or local projects, it might be great.

But here, we are talking about discord bots.

[woeful hill]

You were saying sqlite is bad, so we just back it up?

[vocal plover]

We don't care about it being better, we care about it being misrepresented as not being good enough for production software and that you must use an alternative, which is quite definitively is, and is widely used as such

[dry kelp]

I didn't say it's bad, im saying postgreSQL might suit most discord bots.

[woeful hill]

You are the one comparing one with the other

[dry kelp]

Yeah, cause you guys kept on riding SQLite.

All i did was come with a recommandation to that guy to try postgreSQL over SQLite, since he might enjoy it more.

[woeful hill]

The sqlite web page is using sqlite if so you know

See how it scale

[vocal plover]

I love postgres, I use it for everything and I have no intent to switch to sqlite, but the reality is that almost anyone making a bot here could use sqlite without issue and with a huge degree less complexity than what's required to set up and manage postgres

[dry kelp]

You can't compare scalabilty over SQLite and postgreSQL

[dry kelp]

exactly, most people prefer using postgres, and that's what im trying to point out.

[woeful hill]

You were saying its hard to scale, so im saying that sqlite is absolutely viable for large scale uses

Dont take it the wrong way

[dry kelp]

It is, postgre can scale milion rows and heavy traffic.

[fast osprey]

"Most people prefer Postgres" is a gross mischaracterization

[dry kelp]

This guy feels offended over everything

[fast osprey]

I didn't say I was offended

[vocal plover]

I prefer postgres because I'm an experienced software engineer writing production software at places that use it. When I started programming I used sqlite because it was good enough and it meant I didn't have to learn both SQL databases and managing infrastructure & networks and stuff. sqlite is an amazing choice for people who don't want to deal with the complexity of managing a separate database service

[dry kelp]

you're lucky, i don't have pickles anymore for you, but i can give you a 🍬

[narrow hazel]

[fast osprey]

And really people shouldn't even have a preference. They are different tools that fit different use cases better. That's like saying you prefer a hammer to a screwdriver

[dry kelp]

Most people use it for discord bots too, since it's not even that complex to setup.

[vocal plover]

Honestly if we took a database usage chart for bots I would imagine it's pretty evenly split between sqlite3, postgres, mariadb, and mongodb

[dry kelp]

You're like so mad over the fact that i tried to recommend postgresql for his discord bot, you're the reason why im being like this, you just get on my nerves.

[fast osprey]

I'm not mad

[dry kelp]

Mostly beginners, but im not speaking of beginners here.

tell Dyno bot to use mongodb

[woeful hill]

Mysql and oracle would be the best engines then since they are 2nd and 1st in most used databases 😔

Talks about stats

[vocal plover]

Mongo is widely used among larger apps lol? It wouldn't be my preference but as with sqlite the fact remains that it's fine™ and you can get away with using it to a way higher scale than I think you realise

[fast osprey]

This is all completely anecdotal, and even if you did have data on what database is used most that doesn't remotely inform you about what database is best in this specific case. It's random trivia

[dry kelp]

But, i respect everyone point, apart of solstice, You guys can use SQLite, me saying try postgreSQL was strictly to recommend him a proper database for discord bots.

[quick gust]

new day, new argument

[dry kelp]

Im not entertaining this anymore, since everyone clearly has they're own things in mind.

[vocal plover]

solstice is making similar points to me in a well presented and respectful way, I don't think it's at all fair to go "I respect everyone's ideas but theirs" tbqh

[dry kelp]

My final and honest recommandation, for discord bots, is that your fingers won't hurt trying out postgreSQL over SQLite.

[fast osprey]

They've been adversarial against me for some weird personal hangup

[dry kelp]

You don't wanna see what happened yesterday, it's always me being in love with solstice.

[timber dragon]

Why is it always you vs everyone

[dry kelp]

I kind of enjoy it 😂

[quick gust]

read my mind

[burnt quiver]

daily channel activities

always this channel

[quick gust]

looking forward to tomorrow's argument

[timber dragon]

But also, wtf you got 25 hours on vscode

[vocal plover]

I've had some arguments with solstice in the past, that doesn't mean I need to be adversarial to them for all future points, we agree on many things regardless of things we may disagree on

[dry kelp]

This is my final message over this tho.

[dry kelp]

Hey... in my excuses, it's my pc running, it ain't me.

😂

[timber dragon]

💀

[dry kelp]

Oh, yeah, so look, for further validations, about "Enum" part, it wasn't to write something from scratch, it was to validate the max embed / message limits.

Directly doing an Enum, that's for the best practice, making your own safe_message

You don't like people helping you? I've been nothing but nice to you

[timber dragon]

It's called a suggestion..

[dry kelp]

^^

[dry kelp]

Some people ask for help, but they clearly don't want help.

How you've felt forced? I've only told you the best practices, if you wanna learn the shit practices go again. I've marked my help with ^^, you called me a GPT user while debugging your code.

[timber dragon]

Spooky, does this happen to you often, like outside this channel 🤣

[gritty inlet]

From what I understood the default checkpoint is every 1000 pages of data which should be around 4MB
But I don't think my operations fit for that as they take much less - I don't want to have data in the WAL storage for too long

[dry kelp]

Not really 😂

[gritty inlet]

I hope I got a correct understanding of it

[mild kiln]

hello who wanna developa discord bot with me

[timber dragon]

Lmaoo

[dry kelp]

It's just special here

[vocal plover]

I'm still convinced this channel is actually just a social experiment

[burnt quiver]

This channel is special

[dry kelp]

For trying to teach best practices i get called in so many terms by this adam guy, the conversation can be seen above.

[fast osprey]

I really think it will help to not envision WAL like some slow queue that gets popped. I recommend turning it on and seeing what actually happens

[dry kelp]

^

[mild kiln]

guys who wanna dev a discord bot with me

[dry kelp]

Like, he thought event doesn't load for him, or thinking it was library issue and not his code 😂

[woeful hill]

This isnt a job board

[mild kiln]

guys who wanna dev a discord obt

[dry kelp]

And when i told him he was showing me that he was logging the fucking exception of .load_extension

never logging the actual files loading, only logging if the .load_extension fail, and not your cogs

but i guess some people dont' wanna learn, and would rather be imbeciles.

[mild kiln]

GUYS WHO WANNA DE VIWTH ME A DISCORD BOT

[timber dragon]

Can someone explain WAL mode in baby terms?

[quick gust]

I might have to make a bingo board for this channel

[gritty inlet]

Imma assume WAL isnt useful for read only, shall I

[dry kelp]

😂✌️✌️

[timber dragon]

<@&831776746206265384> lol

[mild kiln]

Write changes to a diary before editing the main book.

[vocal plover]

Beginners don't have a great working knowledge of how software is made. If you want my honest opinion I think you went in way too hard with sarcasm/talking down to them about the issues. It's understood in pydis that people may have little experience, or not know how to solev problems or ask for help effectively. If you're going to contribute by helping people here IMO you need to have patience for those people as a prerequisite. Not everyone you help will have a decent knowledge level and you've got to tailor your help to individuals.

[woeful hill]

WAL mode does ||WAL thing||

Should be clear enough

[mild kiln]

yes come

[timber dragon]

Smh

[burnt quiver]

does the baby understand english

[timber dragon]

Okay that makes much more sense

[timber dragon]

Yes but esl

[dry kelp]

if you would read conversation,, i been nothing but respectful to adam, bringing up extra points for his code. If you would read you would understand and see, but he just been insulting, and said i use GPT for debugging a fucking log, you can see that all, so dont say this unless you’re familiar with yesterday context

And best practices today over how to validate messages, since it seems like he is making heavy messages, its even easier for him to set max values over a enum for best practices

[woeful hill]

Chill, everyone starts somewhere

People don't know everything day 1

[quick gust]

If you feel like someone isn't receptive to your "help", then don't help them

[dry kelp]

So real man

[quick gust]

Then why are you bringing up yesterday's conversation

[dry kelp]

and my points were good, he probably thinks i was yapping

[gritty inlet]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1180869774268440637/1394045529469747371/speechbubble.gif

I randomly sent it

Wow

[dry kelp]

you are a pickle

Perhaps, i wanna show y'all something, i still need to validate a few things, and remove lag caused due to attachments, since im uploading and not using an url, i'll js make a github public repo with my assets

y'all see when i'll send video in a sec

[woeful hill]

Thats not the help they need

[dry kelp]

And im trying to teach them best practices, but they've proved to me that they are not here to learn, but only complain thinking what they do is right.

[vocal plover]

Sometimes you've got to pick one battle at a time, people learn good practices over time. I really wish we could just get everyone to make perfect code, but yeh reality is if we push tons and tons of best practice into people's heads before they even get started they'll just quit.

[dry kelp]

@timber dragon

Told you i will ping you once i have a prototype.

If command disabled, that deny turns into allow, basically doing the opposite of denial.

[gritty inlet]

Updated my db code, we'll see if it goes good

[dry kelp]

@gritty inlet i want your opinion on this too

[gritty inlet]

The command?

[dry kelp]

that's 1 feature of the panel.

As in commands management of the bot.

and the callable already exists and it's handled.

If command enabled, they can deny users / roles

if command disabled, they can allow users / roles

doing opposite, all done thru a proper ui, and not 1000 commands

[fast osprey]

How does the async session on your orm work? Does it make a connection pool?

[gritty inlet]

It works good
I set one process to use WAL and the other not to. The one that doesn't - only reads

[timber dragon]

that looks really good. I think the layout can be better like with bokder and bigger text, but the functionality is nice

also good music

you should share it at https://canary.discord.com/channels/613425648685547541/1403147433369800888 too

[fast osprey]

Isn't that just the integration panel but slower

[gritty inlet]

Wait I just realized, yeah setting roles or users for commands is already a thing in integrations

[dry kelp]

yeah, most people dont know, so its still a good system bot.

Panel will hold all features settings.

removing in totality commands usage for setups

Users also have settings, for theyre privacy and all

[dry kelp]

panel is slow due to attachments, since im doing upload, i will swap to url.

[fast osprey]

Why not just point people to the native feature rather than trying to compete with it

[gritty inlet]

Don't see why, you could just tell users this can be done via server settings

It's less about speeds if you ask me

[dry kelp]

You guys need to understand that if you want your bot to be big, you need to also implement shit people use/want

even prefix commands, people wont change that, you gotta understand the marketplace

or even most coms, use antinukes, which are useless also, its easy to say “just dont give perms”

so i want to compete with current market, the users can also have fake perks to use bot commands and not actually having the permission

its just about the market man… we cant change that

since discord wanted to bad to get rid of prefix commands, years back, fully interactionable

you think they couldnt stop bots doing so? nah

its just that people wont change some things

[compact chasm]

okay so hello y'all i need a bit of help with syncing slash commands (also i'm using pycord) it's apparently not happening automatically but DOES happen when i kick and re add my bot, i can't really access my command tree since pycord is weird, i'd appreciate some help here

[dry kelp]

and this is something going on for years now

[fast osprey]

Reload your client

[gritty inlet]

I can't really agree since I'm one that doesn't understand why people still make moderation bots

As an example

But do as you choose

[dry kelp]

Its just stuff people that want…

[compact chasm]

what do you mean exactly by that 😭

[fast osprey]

Ctrl + R

[compact chasm]

i've done that many many times now 😭

[fast osprey]

Do it immediately after syncing

[gritty inlet]

Well people should understand they don't need bots for so much stuff anymore
But we don't have to agree on this

[fast osprey]

And then check the integrations tab in server settings

[gritty inlet]

That's unecessary

The immediately

As one who has done that a lot

[fast osprey]

I'm not implying it needs to be done within nanoseconds

[gritty inlet]

xd

[fast osprey]

Just before doing other things to isolate the variables at play

[dry kelp]

i agree with you, but something we cant change…

[gritty inlet]

You choose not to

Personally I have given up few stuff once I realized Discord had better implementations of them

[gritty inlet]

No memory leak so that's good as well

[fast osprey]

Really not a huge fan of the fatalism that users are stupid and refuse change and it's a good idea to cater to that. It's a self fulfilling cycle

It's a conscious decision to feed that vs refusing and dragging them to better end results

[gritty inlet]

These stats are probably a bit off but hey at least there's something (unless it's scrapers)

[woeful hill]

if you think the average people are stupid and design your software base on that, that, is the problem

[gritty inlet]

The only reason users are still "attached" to those bot features is the bots keeping feeding them to the users

[compact chasm]

okay so should i be looking for anything specific in integrations tab 😭

[woeful hill]

you dont have to always spoonfeed everyone everything

[fast osprey]

The commands you're expecting

[compact chasm]

the command is there but it's just not synced

[fast osprey]

If you see the commands there but not in your slash menu, that's an issue with your local client

If it's in the integrations menu it is synced

[compact chasm]

no it literally isn't

[fast osprey]

It is

That's what syncing means

[compact chasm]

i removed an option from the command in my code but in the server the option is still there

i'm new so sorry if i'm using words wrong 😭

[fast osprey]

How are you checking if that option is there?

[compact chasm]

by typing the command?

[fast osprey]

Then that's your local client

The integrations tab is canonical. What you see in the / menu is what your client has cached

[compact chasm]

wow okay

thanks anyway

it appears i was just misunderstanding what you said it works now 😭

[fast osprey]

nw

[gritty inlet]

Memory usage of my bot's process

As of the feature I mentioned earlier
I don't have any paid features whatsoever but I just wanted a nice lil way to potentially encourage votes 😄 Worth doing

I mean as long as the vote doesn't give you a removal of any paywall or other advantages there's no real reason for users to do it, but hey a special color is something

[fast osprey]

If this is top.gg that's well within their tos afaik and actively encouraged

[gritty inlet]

Yuh top.gg

[gritty inlet]

What does your bot do, generally

"Music bot" got it bro 🥀

That's all I need to know when it comes to memory consumption

[gritty inlet]

Don't get why people still make these bots

[fast osprey]

either a lack of ideas or because the alternatives are (rightfully) dropping left and right

[narrow hazel]

66gb? Are yoy making GTA6

[gritty inlet]

I don't have anything against the concept of music bots

But I absolutely don't get how someone can sit and make a bot that exists in thousands of copies

[narrow hazel]

I just euphony bot. I looked up how to make a music bot and it's not worth the hassle

[finite salmon]

ig you can learn a couple of things making it

[gritty inlet]

It really isn't.

[finite salmon]

as long as you're not copy pasting

[gritty inlet]

What can I say then go learn how to handle audio streams without publishing another Discord music bot

[finite salmon]

lmao

i was studying a bit of audio engineering long ago, i need to pick it up again

[gritty inlet]

Yes, just with thousands of other bots. I don't criticize you specifically but I just don't get it

[finite salmon]

its really interesting

[gritty inlet]

Music bots

They really don't need to; Have you ever seen someone using all those services "in one" outside of Discord?

Plus you really shouldn't support YouTube, at least not in the typical way

[narrow hazel]

Isn't youtube music not allowed cuz youtube didn't want people using their api for music bots and discord cracked down on it

[gritty inlet]

Yep

Can't you resolve video name from link in any way that doesn't violate their tos though?

[fast osprey]

this absolutely violates tos (and the rules of this server lol)

[gritty inlet]

[finite salmon]

you can probably use their public api for that i think

[gritty inlet]

Music bot devs should just do that

Instead of using yt dlp or some shit

[fast osprey]

resolving the video name isn't the problem

redistributing the content is, which violates law in addition to tos

[gritty inlet]

The music audio doesn't necessarily come in a violating way though? Or you mean the act of using the name of the youtube video for anything

[narrow hazel]

You can still make music bots you just gotta find a source that's legal

[fast osprey]

If the content itself is copyrighted, you are violating law by redistributing it without a license from the copyright holder. Youtube is irrelevant

[finite salmon]

the audio is a part of their content and redistributing without permission is against the law

[fast osprey]

Even if it's royalty free, you may not be violating copyright law but you are violating youtube TOS

[gritty inlet]

Yeah obviously. See I was specifically talking about a way to "bypass" the YouTube problem.
It is still a problem if you end up getting the music itself in unwanted ways

[fast osprey]

If you have royalty free music you got yourself, you can distribute it. That's the only case

[tropic kelp]

!rule 5

[unkempt canyon]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[tropic kelp]

might apply

[gritty inlet]

Some bots/apps like Rythm (Rythm now) genuinely buy licenses

But most don't. And that's a problem

I bet a thousands bets none of these songs are royalty free though

[fast osprey]

spotify listening sessions exist, compensate the artist, and have vastly better audio quality than a shitty discord call

[gritty inlet]

Listen Together is an underrated feature, indeed.

Don't try to argue about copyright

https://media.tenor.com/MsCHW2B1YPkAAAAd/tiger-monkey.gif ahh

Bots can do 1% of what users can in terms of normal client things

So no it wouldn't work

[tropic kelp]

So you mean a bot that does as if it was a user? Im pretty sure thats against the tos

[gritty inlet]

Not if you use a bot token. But again you'd be very limited

It can be done very partially

[tropic kelp]

So just a wrapper around the whole discord GUI? Good luck with that, especially in Python

[gritty inlet]

First of all, yeah this would not be a Python thing
Second, it's too much work
Third, it's too much work just to not being able to do much

tkinter is so ass in tasks

better just not try to do this or at least use javascript

[tropic kelp]

Well yeah, still i think you should really think about this once more.

[marble comet]

there are many such open source project u could reference from though

[fast osprey]

even if not against the letter of the tos, that would absolutely be a misuse of a bot account

[gritty inlet]

Sketchiest looking container xd

Anyway no idea what you mean by connecting to html

HTML is just a format, not code

[narrow hazel]

Looks like a website made by AI

I know because it looks like a huge companies email login

[gritty inlet]

Yes but at the end of the day you'd be using javascript

Pairing html with python is shit

[fast osprey]

12. Do not impersonate other Applications, Discord employees or partners, or Discord services. This includes deception via your and your Application’s account and identity.

[gritty inlet]

Hm although why would that ui be a violation, you just wrap what the bot can already do.
And bots can send messages in channels anyway, you could call that possible impersonation already

[fast osprey]

Reasonably discord isn't going to take action against a rando using a bot to send their own messages because tee hee

but it is completely against the spirit of the distinction between account types

[gritty inlet]

I just think it's useless

[marble comet]

https://github.com/SwiftcordApp/Swiftcord this is one im waiting to get updated and maintained again, such a good project

[fast osprey]

Custom clients using user tokens are very explicitly against the TOS

[gritty inlet]

That one does?

[marble comet]

discord moderators have come forward multiple times in the official discord community server saying they don't care

[fast osprey]

Will I get banned for using Swiftcord/Is using Swiftcord illegal?
Nobody really knows what Discord's official stance on unofficial clients is. However, hundreds of people and I have been using Swiftcord for quite a while, and nobody has been banned to date. I do not take any responsibility for account bans due to the use of Swiftcord, whether direct or indirect, although there's a very low possibility of that occurring. I recommend trying Swiftcord with an alt if possible.

What a joke of an answer

individual opinions don't override tos

[gritty inlet]

Does swiftcord use user tokens? Yes or no

[marble comet]

how else would you log in?

[gritty inlet]

-_- you DONT

[marble comet]

which means?

[gritty inlet]

Are you sure you know the difference betwen bot token and user token

Why would you need a custom client for a user

[marble comet]

🤔 what does bot token have to do with this

[gritty inlet]

!

You already got a client right now

[marble comet]

why people want alternative clients? uh most likely because discord is electron

and probably because they want client features discord currently doesnt offer

[gritty inlet]

Oh so it is vencord-like?

The design looks so shitty icel

Anyway that violates tos

[marble comet]

ish, vencord modifies the existing discord client, what i sent is a fully custom client built from scratch using native widgets

[gritty inlet]

i dont have something against people who use anything but it'd be smart from those people to not share that they do

[gritty inlet]

Please man don't try to argue how it is not against the tos because it just is 😹 again you'd be smart to not tell people you use it

[marble comet]

it neither smart nor dumb there is no recorded case of discord banning custom clients and official staff members at discord have come forward saying they couldn't care less, but yes it's written in their ToS to not modify the client

which makes legally sense, but in practice discord doesn't care so why should the users

[gritty inlet]

Why does it matter what the staff members say? Staff members do NOT mirror the tos neither can you trust them for legal matters

[fast osprey]

It's a pretty moot point because this isn't bot related, or python related, and this server's rules specifically say not to violate service TOS regardless of whether you personally think it's okay or not

[marble comet]

discord staff is discord, it is of their opinion that they dont care

[gritty inlet]

You are already wrong by saying staff are the true representation of the platform and its rules

[marble comet]

the employees are sure representitive of the company they work for, which is why they are hired

[fast osprey]

People are hired for specific reasons. Not every employee has the authority to communicate binding policy

that's like saying a grocery store cashier can just tell you it's okay to take whatever you want

[gritty inlet]

I said representation of the platform and its rules, not representitives

[marble comet]

if they dont have the authority and make such claims then they would be legally liable for any act based on said claims

[gritty inlet]

Yeah?

[fast osprey]

TOS aren't legally binding

[marble comet]

im not speaking of ToS

[fast osprey]

This whole conversation has been about tos

[marble comet]

i'm talking about an employee making a claim which then a user could act against

and if that act happens to fall under unlawful terms then the employee in question would be held liable

[gritty inlet]

[fast osprey]

Nobody in this conversation has made a point about the likelihood of being acted against, but you're fixated on that for some reason

that is irrelevant

[marble comet]

multiple official discord moderators have legitemetialy come forward saying they don't care, i see no reason for a user to care themselves at that point, regardless of what is stated in a ToS

[fast osprey]

That is your choice to make, but again it is against tos and everything I said stands

[marble comet]

yes im not disagreeing

[fast osprey]

it is irrelevant to this channel, irrelevant to this server, and against the rules

[gritty inlet]

🦗🦗for now here's a random snippet

import asyncio

def to_thread(func) -> ...:
    """
    A decorator to automatically turn synchronous functions to asynchronous
    by running them in a separate thread with `asyncio.to_thread`.
    """

    def wrapper(*args, **kwrags):
        return asyncio.to_thread(func, *args, **kwrags)
    
    return wrapper

@to_thread
def sync_func():
    print("Hello World")

async def main():
    await sync_func()

asyncio.run(main())```

[fast osprey]

dope

[timber dragon]

hot

but where paramspec

or for 3.12+

import asyncio
from typing import Awaitable, Callable

def to_thread[**P, T](func: Callable[P, T]) -> Callable[P, Awaitable[T]]:
    async def wrapper(*args: P.args, **kwargs: P.kwargs) -> T:
        return await asyncio.to_thread(func, *args, **kwargs)
    return wrapper

[gritty inlet]

Meh was too lazy for any typing

[gritty inlet]

Also why not import these from collections.abc

[timber dragon]

good question

oh probably because minver is 3.8 for jishaku

[gritty inlet]

And it actually doesn't matter if you make wrapper async or not

[narrow hazel]

im so confused why it's only getting 2 of my roles neither one is the conditional

[narrow hazel]

thats everything involving the issue

anything else just continues the action of the component

I have 4 roles the roles its printing is Early Support and the @ everyone role. The conditionals is the manager and mod role

but it's only printing 2 roles even tho I put a print above the conditional

[narrow hazel]

I used names instead of IDs

still only 2 of the roles

[vast gale]

It's impossible to diagnose why a print statement isn't working without showing the print statement and surrounding code as context.

[narrow hazel]

 for roles in interaction.user.roles:
     print(roles.name)
     if roles.id == (1424179881880584232, 1413800644787310592):
        pass
     else:
        pass
          ```

thats the whole code

I've tried a few different stuff

     print(roles.name)
     if roles.id == (1424179881880584232 or 1413800644787310592):
        pass
     else:
        pass```
           ```for roles in interaction.user.roles:
     print(roles.name)
     if roles.id in (1424179881880584232 or 1413800644787310592):
        pass
     else:
        pass```

[merry cliff]

this should work```py
for role in interaction.user.roles:
print(role.name)
if role.id in (1424179881880584232, 1413800644787310592):
print("role detected")
else:
pass

[narrow hazel]

so weird

[vast gale]

What else is in that loop?

[narrow hazel]

nothing

[vast gale]

Where you create the embed

[gritty inlet]

What are you expecting lol

[narrow hazel]

It keeps going to else

[gritty inlet]

You only let 2 roles be printed

[narrow hazel]

when I should

[gritty inlet]

Have you realized

Oh you mean it doesn't print that text?

[narrow hazel]

It should be letting the interaction continue when the button is pushed if you have either of the 2 roles

[gritty inlet]

.

[narrow hazel]

when it's printed theres only 2 roles in the terminal

[gritty inlet]

---__---

The tuple has only 2 role IDs......

[narrow hazel]

im getting tired of explaining the same way

• You click the button
• It loops your roles
• If you have 1 of the roles it continues
• Else you're denied
• The print statement only shows 2 roles in the user list

I have 5 roles total

[gritty inlet]

Show me the print statement please

[gritty inlet]

No, show the code that prints

prints

[vast gale]

the second time this loop runs interaction.response.send_message is raising an error. That happens after the second print statement.

Somewhere your error handling is eating that exception and not printing it to console.

[gritty inlet]

I'd just like to see the lines in the code where he prints the roles

[narrow hazel]

it's right above the conditional

[vast gale]

Once you sent your full code it was a lot easier to figure out the error, so when people are asking for your full code it's really Important to provide it.

[vast gale]

You can see it in the screenshot above, which also explains why it's only printing twice. For every iteration, inter.response.send_message is being called. That object can only reply once.

[gritty inlet]

hmmm

[gritty inlet]

You're right!

[vast gale]

It is a full member object. Using the cache may make problems worse and would rely on the cache they may not even be enabled.

[gritty inlet]

Don't do an interaction response inside an iteration unless you stop the iteration right after (return await ...)
@narrow hazel

[narrow hazel]

oh so just move it back to the for loop

[gritty inlet]

no, if the rols is in the tuple, do return await to stop the iteration

add return before the await

[narrow hazel]

Finally

[gritty inlet]

And move the last statement to outside of the loop

Otherwise it's unreachable

[quick gust]

why did you completely un-indent the if statement

[narrow hazel]

Because it works now

[gritty inlet]

yea that too lol

[narrow hazel]

This is my alt

[gritty inlet]

.

[vast gale]

It doesn't. It only checks the topmost role you have

I wonder if you can do a bitwise and with roles hmmm

[gritty inlet]

Why though, his logic is fine

[narrow hazel]

Yeah this works

just moved the condition outside the loop

[gritty inlet]

No, the if must be inside the for

And you need to stop iteration when you respond

[narrow hazel]

well clearly it still works

[vast gale]

they already showed the if statement outside of the for loop 🙂

[gritty inlet]

Yeah I can see now but he can fix it by simply moving the indentions

[narrow hazel]

thanks zenith

[vast gale]

You need to check all of the allowed roles with the roles the user has, breaking at the first match, and falling back to no permissions error if the user doesn't have either of the roles

[gritty inlet]

His code almost does that correctly

[vast gale]

Pseudo code:

For role in roles
  if role in user.roles:
    break
Else:
 # handle not allowed
 Return # very important!!

# handle allowed

[gritty inlet]

I mean that else is indented wrong

Matter of fact you don't need it at all

[gritty inlet]

Unless you can do else after for and I didn't know, anyway that's useless

[vast gale]

It's not. You can have an else on a loop which only executes if you didn't break out of the loop earlier.

This code flow I've illustrated follows code standards including guard clause ifs, which prevents nesting all of your code inside a bunch of checks

[gritty inlet]

Whatever you put after the loop will happen, with else or without, wouldn't it

Ah i get it actually

[vast gale]

!e The break prevents it from happening.

for i in range(5):
  print(i)
  if i == 3:
    break
else:
  print("didn't break")

print("6")

[gritty inlet]

Yeah thought so

[unkempt canyon]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | 0
002 | 1
003 | 2
004 | 3
005 | 6

[vast gale]

I'm on mobile don't judge my typing lol

[gritty inlet]

Personally I'd just return instead of break

[quick gust]

Wouldn't this work?

for role in user.roles:
  if role.id in (role_id1, role_id2):
    # allowed logic
    return
  
# not allowed logic

[gritty inlet]

That's what I'd do, yes

[narrow hazel]

doesnt the comma mean and?

[gritty inlet]

No

List/Tuple items are comma separated

He just used placeholders

[narrow hazel]

oh

I need to start learning using a DB. I just spent like 10 minutes trying to figure out why a button wasn't working. turns out my persistant buttons doesnt save anything except the buttons 💀

[gritty inlet]

I started using a db not too long ago

But I don't exactly get what you mean

[narrow hazel]

because I save None to the persistant buttons