python-discussion

[grim hatch]

😭 come on, but basically he has a similar view like I had, which is why should we learn how to push pull and stuff like that, why shouldn't we insert it automatically

His issue is he doesn't understand these things in practice

[ashen cipher]

you need to learn how to use stuff in order to use them?

[grim hatch]

Basically, but he doesn't know why they are the way they are

[keen fox]

wym?

[ashen cipher]

im so lost

[grim hatch]

That's what's confusing him prolly

[keen fox]

what things?

[grim hatch]

Bruh

[grim hatch]

Like learning git

[keen fox]

did you read my initial message?

[half pewter]

dude, you know where you are and that people try to be helpful

[ashen cipher]

sorry your explanation didnt really help TwT

[autumn forge]

yes, this seems to be the point of contention

[grim hatch]

Mb

[ashen cipher]

could you link it?

[keen fox]

you know when you wanna rollback, do transitions, commit, merge, stash gabba gabba just no need to write it 🙂

[grim hatch]

This is what I've been saying

[ashen cipher]

so... LLM VCS?

[vernal wind]

If you want something "exciting" you can always build a handcar, but replace the railroad wheels with tires and set up a steering system.

[keen fox]

then what you mean by

His issue is he doesn't understand these things in practice

[grim hatch]

If you understood why we have to use commit, push and pull, you'd know why we need them and you need to learn them

[keen fox]

conversation later delved into what learning/understanding is

[opal gull]

autogit: watches your every move and runs git commands whenever it should
when

[tardy flax]

still talking about llm from earlier or a new thing?

[ashen cipher]

okay but like lowkey hear me out on this one this except every time your tests pass

[grim hatch]

The many wrong things that could happen with this

[keen fox]

#python-discussion message
then i said this again this is going #off-topic-lounge-text

[ashen cipher]

and coverage does not decrease

eh i mean you still have to write commit messages though

[grim hatch]

But I don't think something deciding when to commit for you is effective

Does it read your brain waves?

[autumn forge]

that's what I'm saying

[grim hatch]

@keen fox can we roll back to what your initial question was again?

[keen fox]

not SOTA yet!

[grim hatch]

I don't trust my mind in one instance

I could decide to not commit a second after

[robust ledge]

Crazy, actually. We've been using brainwaves in VR for years now.

[grim hatch]

[grim hatch]

It's underrated technology

[keen fox]

not for the git tho?

[grim hatch]

So for each person that wants to learn git, they would need a brain wave signal reader

[keen fox]

anyway typing bad

[robust ledge]

I could. It's just faster to type out the commands that I don't have memorized but that I learned by using them.

[autumn forge]

so what is the SOTA? From what you're saying it seems to be understanding (without learning) git so you can accept suggestions from an LLM

[grim hatch]

The LLM doesn't know what you want to achieve

[keen fox]

do you think learning is doing same things over and over again?

[grim hatch]

Unless you explicitly say

[swift sparrow]

often, yes

that's how it becomes solidifed in your brain

[autumn forge]

sure, familiarity is important

[grim hatch]

Learning is gaining knowledge that will help you cut time on the repetitive stuff and sometimes, create new stuff

[robust ledge]

That's the difference between understanding something and only being familiar with it.

[keen fox]

then why do we make machines?

[keen fox]

💯

[autumn forge]

if I look at something once I will probably not be able to understand it

[grim hatch]

To not have to do the boring repetitive stuff

[robust ledge]

I'm glad we agree that doing is important.

[swift sparrow]

I guess musicians don't need to practice to get good at their craft then...

[grim hatch]

And increase the success rate of some other stuff

[vernal wind]

Practice makes perfect. If you don't exercise the knowledge you gain, you'll eventually lose it.

[grim hatch]

They should make Agentic workflows instead

[grim hatch]

Happened to me lots of times

[keen fox]

massively depends on the knowledge

and how often iits changing

[grim hatch]

You're gonna be learning a lot of stuff, not everything will stick

[vernal wind]

Same. I used to be an expert bass guitar player. I could probably get back to that level again, but if I took up a bass now, I'd barely be able to use it.

[keen fox]

llike learn axiomatic truth it won't change

distributivity is still the same

[grim hatch]

The muscle memory is still there, you just need to retrieve it

[keen fox]

some things often change faster than others

[grim hatch]

What the hell does that mean

[swift sparrow]

are git commands one of those things?

[grim hatch]

It stemmed off from that

[keen fox]

im no one to decide that 🙂 predictions are hard

maybe text me after 6 years?

[grim hatch]

Xor are you trying to say that we won't need git, so no need learning it?

[keen fox]

i never said that?

[vernal wind]

to some extent. If you didn't use git for 6 months, you'd have to brush up on how to use it, and the more intricate the knowledge, there more there is to lose.

[swift sparrow]

yeah exactly. I'd say the same if you just let an AI write your git commands for 6 months too

[shrewd plinth]

git gud

[grim hatch]

Yeah that's the thing of knowing a lot, you lose it when you don't practice it, it's a curse

[keen fox]

it was only about the usage of git and copy pasting commands or force memorizing them

[vernal wind]

using an LLM to do your work for you is WORSE, because you learn to rely on the LLM and even if you DO relearn it, the urge to just use the LLM will be there because "easy" is addictive.

[grim hatch]

Memorize them to:
.understand the flow of git
.save time
.understand what other people talk about

[robust ledge]

There's that "memorizing" again. Did someone actually suggest doing that at some point?

[swift sparrow]

also agreed

[ashen cipher]

im sensing a motte and bailey here

[charred tusk]

Hi chat my movie is over now
What’s up?
Oh we’re STILL shilling AI?

[charred tusk]

Who’s that?
The Baileys I know is the alcohol

[ashen cipher]

close enough

[robust ledge]

Hasn't been brought up in easily 30 minutes.

[grim hatch]

Memorizing is the first step to learning but never the last

[vernal wind]

I'm not too much on new kid slang, so I'm doing whatever the opposite of "glazing" is for LLMs

[robust ledge]

I'll have to consider that. I don't agree with it right now.

[grim hatch]

You memorize a command, then you understand what it does, then you practice it and it sticks

[keen fox]

i don't think you need to memorize them to understand how git works tbh you need to learn more about persistant data structures if you're interested in that 🙂

[charred tusk]

Wait then what are we talking about??
I thought we were stopping the memorization because of outsourcing to LLMs

[autumn forge]

so you're saying that people should try to learn understand git properly instead?

[robust ledge]

I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree at this moment. I'll think about it.

[keen fox]

its stupid to memorize

[swift sparrow]

yeah just stop using your brain altogether!

[grim hatch]

If I know how ice cream is made, I still need to know how to tell the ice cream man, the ice cream that I want.

[swift sparrow]

down with big brain!

[keen fox]

if they're interested in it sure.. if they just want their shit done then there might be better ways than just memorizing:)

[grim hatch]

Alright for the moment

[charred tusk]

At the high level, sure
Understand the concepts
Re-verify the implementation details as needed

[vernal wind]

it's like learning to play and sing a song. Read the sheet music once and odds are, you're not going to be able to play it. Practice enough and you won't need the sheet music anymore, assuming you keep practicing it regularly.

[charred tusk]

What is the actual argument here?

[autumn forge]

if they want their shit done they may also be interested in learning how an industry standard tool works

[keen fox]

we also agree on that:)

[grim hatch]

Memorizing "git pull" is the first thing, then you keep reading what it does, and now you know that git pull, pulls the recent changes made in a repo

[robust ledge]

I could never blind read sheet music. I listened to the song once and knew how to play it.

[robust ledge]

We agree that I understand and will think? I'm glad for that.

[charred tusk]

Dam you’ve got a good memory

[grim hatch]

You'll get it, just get some popcorn

[keen fox]

how an industry standard tool works

thats why i told them to learn about persistant DS if they wanna know how git works?

[robust ledge]

Notes are abstract. I have a think for abastact.

[keen fox]

so they could implement their own git

making industry standard tools now 😛

[grim hatch]

Why do you wanna reinvent the wheel?

[charred tusk]

I’ve choosing between Panda Express and Sonic for dinner tonight
But I think I need stronger equipment for this conversation

[keen fox]

thats usually how good software is made theres a reason why they teach you compilers in school

[grim hatch]

Definitely, go with shawarma

[charred tusk]

-# Maybe I’ll go get some of that Baileys…

[swift sparrow]

but then you would have to memorize how compilers work

[grim hatch]

They teach you compilers to understand the full picture which helps understand errors

[autumn forge]

I do not understand how learning about persistent data structures will help me use git

[grim hatch]

If you wanna make compilers or even your own programming language that's up to you, but that's not the reason they teach compilers

[keen fox]

Not really just think about how'd you parse the text then look at existing approaches see how they could influence your ideas etc..

Like you don't need to memorize how to implement AST right of the bat

[grim hatch]

You still have to learn how to so that

[pallid garden]

im using this person's argument as an excuse to rewrite everything in rust

[swift sparrow]

why think about it when I could use an llm?

[keen fox]

Yk merkle tree?

[charred tusk]

you didn’t need an excuse for that

[grim hatch]

That would be a gift to humanity in my opinion

[keen fox]

I mean you're not copy pasting commands from man are you?

It's an entirely a different thing?

[keen fox]

Or memorizing from sm bs fourms

[ashen cipher]

why does knowing what a merkle tree is influence your usage of git

[keen fox]

Ur literally making your own syntax

[grim hatch]

Whether it's a man teaching you or an LLM teaching you, you're still doing it on your own

[keen fox]

Usage???
They asked how git works 😭?

Like how does it actually works

[brisk gazelle]

We have roots, trees, branches and even leaves, but I've never heard of twigs or flowers.

[ashen cipher]

what

[grim hatch]

Do you think people NEED to know how it works to use it?

[ashen cipher]

i think git would be a lot cooler if it had flowers <3

[grim hatch]

Linus Torvald would agree

[keen fox]

Ppl also don't need to force themselves to memorize anything to use it

[ashen cipher]

linus torvalds would say that "you haven't seen a flower hurtle at you at half the speed of light"

[grim hatch]

Were not memorizing that's the point

[charred tusk]

git-flowers
fuck I just flowered the wrong branch
-# hope my commits are still in the reflog

[pallid garden]

do you need to know how to build an engine to build a car?

[grim hatch]

Do you need to know that to drive it?

[pallid garden]

not even to drive it

[keen fox]

You're wrong you even memorized a for loop without knowing it

[pallid garden]

to build a car

[keen fox]

Nop

[fiery yarrow]

tbh, you don't need to know that a car has an engine to drive it

[keen fox]

It's bozo work should be automated

[grim hatch]

I understood the pattern, I didnt memorize it, if I only memorized, I wouldn't be able to adapt it for different contexts

[vernal wind]

Do you? Unless you get it pre built then yes. Also, if the engine doesn't seem to be working correctly, knowing how it works will help you fine tune it or otherwise figure out what the problem is.

[pallid garden]

yea, but do you need to know how to build an engine to build a car?

[autumn forge]

I realise I phrased my message poorly. What I mean to say is: how will learning about persistent data structures help me use git practically? Do I just have to guess how to perform a given operation? What will having a conceptual understanding do to help?

[ashen cipher]

isnt an engine that thing from nodejs

[charred tusk]

Sir this is the Rust Discord

[grim hatch]

I mean you do need to know how to connect it to the other parts to the engine so maybe?

[ashen cipher]

mb

[fiery yarrow]

no, the only thing made from node is sadness and CVEs

[pallid garden]

mclaren certainly didnt need to know how to build an engine to win the f1 championship, they just buy their engines from mercedes

[charred tusk]

Hey! I like my web apps!

[fiery yarrow]

so do black hats, doggo

[grim hatch]

Actually?

[ashen cipher]

true....

[pallid garden]

there is a difference between knowing how something works, and knowing how to build it

[charred tusk]

Dude that’s racist you can’t put that on your face anymore

[bright shoal]

yes, they are what you call a "customer team" not a "works team"

[grim hatch]

I can build a class but not understand how it's represented in memory

[vernal wind]

The maintenance crew have to know in order to fine tune the engine to get the most out of it. No one buys an engine, slaps it on a racecar and hopes for the best.

[grim hatch]

So I guess they spend their time focusing on learning how to drive it

[pallid garden]

and yet, here we are

[swift sparrow]

ok but those people's jobs are literally understanding that sort of thing

[bright shoal]

Rather the aerodynamics and other stuff

[grim hatch]

And that too

[pallid garden]

also, that's not building an engine

[fiery yarrow]

as a fella with a diesel tractor, basically every diesel tractor company just buys engine and stuff from, usually, yanmar

[bright shoal]

are you glad they finally deciphered the mercedes engine manuals? /j

[pallid garden]

i can repair a phone, but i cannot build a phone from scratch

[grim hatch]

Ok we swerved to engines

Vroom vroom

[pallid garden]

my point being, knowing how to use something is different from knowing how to build it

[bright shoal]

du du du

[grim hatch]

I can use a programming language but I can't build one

[ashen cipher]

if i have a yanmar engine does that make it...
burma

-# im sorry guys

[charred tusk]

You have a what now

[grim hatch]

Anyhow, I also do think there is a difference between memorizing and recognizing a pattern

[fiery yarrow]

i've alluded to it before

[vernal wind]

With enough knowledge on how to use one, building one is doable. The problem is building one that serves a practical purpose that existing languages can't cover.

[silk girder]

Hello everyone I'm new here

[grim hatch]

Nah, I don't think using the language teaches you how a compiler works

[charred tusk]

You expect me to just memorize?

[grim hatch]

Or an interpreter

[swift sparrow]

I have no clue how either of those things work

[grim hatch]

😭

Welp that makes the two of us

[ashen cipher]

-# did anyone get the joke

[autumn forge]

I use my brain most days yet I have no understanding of how it works

[grim hatch]

Nope

[ashen cipher]

well one person did

[grim hatch]

I have no brain but I must understand

[ashen cipher]

its a multi layered joke
layer 1: having a yanmar engine makes it yours, and if i'm the person owning it, it makes it "my" yanmar, or myanmar
layer 2: burma is another name to refer to myanmar

[pallid garden]

that's the wrong flag soph...

[autumn forge]

damn

[bright shoal]

real

[ashen cipher]

damn

[autumn forge]

I guessed the country code wrong I guess

[swift sparrow]

that's malaysia

[pallid garden]

🇲🇲

[ashen cipher]

i didnt catch that either tbf

[autumn forge]

what actually is the country code for myanmar

[ashen cipher]

mm is wild

[grim hatch]

OOHH dang that flew over my head like a snail

[autumn forge]

I'm terrible at flags

[grim hatch]

I am not that good either

Moment of silence for xor

[bright shoal]

time to lock in

[pallid garden]

im also terrible at flags, malaysia just happens to be my neighbor

[grim hatch]

True

[grim hatch]

Where u from, Thailand?

[pallid garden]

no, singapore

[bright shoal]

🇸🇬

[grim hatch]

PO PO PO PO POLAND

[pallid garden]

i havent been to malaysia for a long time though

[bright shoal]

😭

[swift sparrow]

I'm living there for the next few months 🙂

[pallid garden]

enjoying the food?

[grim hatch]

Love that audio

[swift sparrow]

it's so good! I just did a street food tour over the weekend

[grim hatch]

Must have been good

[autumn forge]

smh I should know it I have a friend from malaysia

[ashen cipher]

the only one not counting sea borders

oh wait

singapore's an island...

[steady rain]

Imagine what the flag would be if Singapore and Indonesia merged together

[fiery yarrow]

nah it's cool, they're different shades of red. just use the current singapore one and tint the right side a wee bit

[pallid garden]

🇸🇬🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩
loooooooooooooong singapore

[steady rain]

Yay

[ashen cipher]

lmao that link

[rare gazelle]

helo

[brisk gazelle]

I just coughed from laughing at that.

The flags, specifically.

[still pelican]

guys, has anyone touched on Whatsapp business?

[keen fox]

yall arerelated?

[runic flower]

What are you trying to do? IS it just the same as meta's graphh api?

[ashen cipher]

i'm actually writing python like rust holy shit

it's just structs and traits and generics except instead of structs i'm writing "classes" and instead of traits i have "abstract base classes" and "protocols"

[pallid garden]

are you binding methods to classes

[ashen cipher]

what to what and where

[pallid garden]

i.e. impl

[ashen cipher]

does using abcs count

[twilit abyss]

How can I get humidity better

[pallid garden]

humidity?

[twilit abyss]

Yes

[pallid garden]

answering with yes wont clear things up you know

wdym by humidity

[twilit abyss]

It sits at 80

In my tank

[pallid garden]

your tank?

[twilit abyss]

To cold

[fiery yarrow]

ohhhhhhh

[pallid garden]

this discord server is about python the programming language btw

[twilit abyss]

My snake

[keen fox]

.

ur what

[pallid garden]

there's nothing stopping you from talking about your python pet but that would go into the offtopic channels

[ashen cipher]

THEY LEFT

LMAO

[fiery yarrow]

that confusion has happened a few times

[ashen cipher]

no shot

[fiery yarrow]

we really should find a snek discord to direct people to

[pallid garden]

true...

[fiery yarrow]

but considering it only happens maybe once a year, and us programmers are hella procrastinators....

[ashen cipher]

i mean there's this site with great tips for actual pythons i think its called real python or something

[fiery yarrow]

uh huh

[ashen cipher]

its for real pythons

[fiery yarrow]

so how are you familiar with it?

[ashen cipher]

not very, though im sure they have great advice for these people :3

[floral terrace]

I kid you not, I once looked up "Bulma" as in "Bulma CSS", The search engine went berserk and gave me nsfw results of Bulma from Dragon Ball

[ashen cipher]

we totally had to know that huh

[floral terrace]

"If I know about it, you should too" mentality

[wise yarrow]

there's an extension of that site

it's called ℂPython

[still pelican]

I created this voting system and then was trying to let it send whatsapp messages cause elder ppl dont use email. What is this graphh api

[halcyon fern]

yo

from pynput.keyboard import Listener
import pyautogui
import time
import shutil


def logger(key):
    screenshot = pyautogui.screenshot()
    screenshot.save('logged.png')
    print(key)

    shutil.move("logged.png", r"C:\Users\user\Desktop\logged.png")

with Listener(on_press=logger) as l:
    l.join()
    ``` would this code be labled as bad code ?

[swift sparrow]

Looks mostly ok, but why not save the file directly into the final destination instead of saving it and then moving it?

[halcyon fern]

im saving it to the desktop i dont want to save it into the file

[swift sparrow]

screenshot.save('logged.png')
shutil.move("logged.png", r"C:\Users\user\Desktop\logged.png")

you're saving it and then moving it

screenshot.save(r"C:\Users\user\Desktop\logged.png")

when you could just save it right away to where you want it

[halcyon fern]

oh so get rid of the png

[swift sparrow]

right now you're saving a file into location A, then moving it into location B

but I'm saying you could just save the file into location B in the first place

[halcyon fern]

yes but its not supposed to be in the file when its ran

[swift sparrow]

I don't understand what you're trying to say

[halcyon fern]

its supposed to be sent to the desktop so the user knows it has been sent

[swift sparrow]

yes I understand that

[halcyon fern]

to there desktop and not having to manually remove the file and put it on there desktop

[swift sparrow]

you're not listening to what I'm saying

[halcyon fern]

i am

the png file is supposed to be saved on to the users desktop

[swift sparrow]

what do you think I'm saying and what do you think is wrong with it?

[halcyon fern]

i dont really understand

[swift sparrow]

right now you're doing two operations

one is to save it

and another is to move it

[halcyon fern]

oh wait i see

[swift sparrow]

I'm saying if you save it to the correct place initially, then there's no need to move it

[halcyon fern]

nvm

[swift sparrow]

you're doing an extra unnecessary operation

[halcyon fern]

thanks bro

im just out of it rn

screenshot.save(r"C:\Users\user\Desktop\logged.png")
    screenshot.save('logged.png') 
``` i could do both if wanted

[swift sparrow]

if you wanted it in two locations, sure

but shutil.move isn't copying the file, it's moving it

[halcyon fern]

but no point since it would be unnecessary

[raven urchin]

Hi shoomp!

[swift sparrow]

heyo

[raven urchin]

Hru

[swift sparrow]

Pretty good. First day of unemployment. Crushing it in slay the spire

[raven urchin]

Unemployment?!

Also, want to try slay the spire too

[swift sparrow]

yeah, my contract just came to an end

[raven urchin]

Oh

[shrewd plinth]

1 or 2?

[raven urchin]

Well- I am studying SQL with SQLBolt

[swift sparrow]

2

[raven urchin]

It's not that long of a guide

[swift sparrow]

in the middle of an ascension 10 act 3 boss fight 😬

[raven urchin]

After that, I'll watch a video about SQLite

[shrewd plinth]

Nice. Apparently the multiplayer in StS2 is pretty legit

Dayum, ascension 10 O_O

Good luck!

[terse mauve]

go check if the zoo is looking for a goat

[raven urchin]

It has multiplayer?!

[shrewd plinth]

yup

[swift sparrow]

I've reached/cleared 10 with defect/silent/regent so far

[raven urchin]

Hi Bun, for some reason, go eval on Hux is taking shorter

It's adapting 🗣️

[terse mauve]

yay:)

[shrewd plinth]

Impressive!

[terse mauve]

gm all

[raven urchin]

It's 1 am for me lol

gm tho

[terse mauve]

08:08 here:)

[swift sparrow]

1pm 🙂

[raven urchin]

Funny number

[raven urchin]

12 hours of difference lol

I always think, imagine what would it be like to talk with people in other planets

[swift sparrow]

it would be hard to coordinate time zones

[raven urchin]

Imagine longer or shorter days

That'd be hell to manage lol

A planet with 8 hours day time

[swift sparrow]

You still working on the to-do list?

[terse mauve]

the dude has a severe ADHD, I doubt it

[raven urchin]

Today was the day off, tomorrow I'll focus on the SQL thingy since I'll almost have to start working on my friends bot. On Tuesday I'll add a way to save stuff on the To-do list.

[raven urchin]

It's not that, the day isn't long enough!

[terse mauve]

go to sleep lol

[swift sparrow]

I've still been prototyping my collapse widgets a bit

[raven urchin]

Oohh

[raven urchin]

I will, in a bit

I'm helping Delk

[terse mauve]

can I take your shift?

[raven urchin]

Yes

Thank you

Good night everyone!

[swift sparrow]

adios

[inland karma]

good morning!

[tame vapor]

what widget did u use ?

[swift sparrow]

A combination of 2. QFrame and QWidget

the header is a clickable QFrame and then it has a layout that holds whatever widget you set to it. "Collapsing" is pretty much just setting the visibility on/off of the child widget

[tame vapor]

ahhh

why not a single column QTreeWidget or whatever the built in tree widget is ?

[swift sparrow]

this is meant to act as an accordion style menu. It simply shows/hides whatever widget you parent into it

so I could put anything inside

[tame vapor]

i see

[swift sparrow]

here's an example of an already existing one

this is built into the 3d software I use though

and I wanted to replicate that same style in my own UI

this wouldn't work as a tree

[tame vapor]

why not

cant u customize the tree child widget anyway u want like a regular widget ?

[swift sparrow]

because a tree only displays item widgets

[scenic finch]

For those who use LLMs, what provider do you use? I'm on the copilot that a student account gives right now but i just keep hitting rate limits even if im just asking questions about the codebase

I cant even access any claude model beyond haiku

[swift sparrow]

yes but then I would need to customize tree widget items to match any other widget I would want to use

I also have no need for the nested capabilities of a tree

[tame vapor]

ahhhh true

yeah makes sense
this is much easier solution

[swift sparrow]

this is just 1 header that hides/show things

I could in theory put sub-frames into these though

you can kinda see it from the indentation here

4 of them belong to the Display header

[quartz fulcrum]

Hi everyone,
!! GOOD MORNING !!

I am starting gym from tomorrow.....

again

[nimble spoke]

Okay

[sharp sinew]

How do input code into here?

Do i use "?

print("Seeing if bot will tell me")

[pallid garden]

why do you need to run your code here?

[sharp sinew]

I learned about a feature in discord recently that shows how to input code and have it have colors but i forgot how and I wanna send some code to my friend so I dont wanna run my code here but I wanna use that to send my friend python.

[pallid garden]

it doesnt run the code

it only shows it

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[sharp sinew]

Ohhh

Thanks!

[snow moon]

Can I use it py3 for code

[pallid garden]

you want to use python 3?

[snow moon]

Pydroid 3

For code in tablet because I don't have a laptop

[inland karma]

yeah, you can use pydroid3 on your tablet

[pallid garden]

you can definitely give it a try

[snow moon]

Ok thanks

import pyttsx3
engine = pyttsx3.init()
engine.say("I will speak this text")
engine.runAndWait()

[edgy kraken]

Hey @snow moon!

Please edit your message to use a code block

```py
print('Hello, world!')
```

This will result in the following:

print('Hello, world!')```

[snow moon]

When I use this code in pydroid 3 their is coming error

Can you give me solution

[pallid garden]

there are a lot of things that can go wrong, the error message tells us what to fix, we are not magicians yknow

[snow moon]

Ok

[ocean ridge]

@snow moon paste the error

[earnest leaf]

Hi

[wraith pike]

hello

i am in windows 7, so how i can code python free by using a website?

[peak relic]

github codespaces, google colab, kaggle, and replit.

But best if you just reformat your machine to use any up-to-date Linux distro and use python on you machine instead of online code environments.

[golden mortar]

If it's your machine, that is.

[cerulean ravine]

seems like a drastic step

[cerulean ravine]

are you limited to using windows 7?

[raw bramble]

I may be wrong but Lists in Python are dynamic arrays that store pointers to memory addresses of values?

[tame vapor]

id prefer to say "references" but yeah
i mean in python everything is a reference so ... 🤷

[raw bramble]

I don’t really get what a pointer is here?

What are they, how are they stored, and how do they store references to values?

[pallid garden]

python is uh... a bit different

[tame vapor]

a reference is like, a way to refer to some memory , point to it , a reference is under the hood just that , a pointer
it points to another object
so u make list of these pointers , each item in the list , aka , each pointer , points to an object somewhere in memory

[opal gull]

in cpython they're dynamic arrays that store references (memory addresses) to objects

[tame vapor]

a reference is just a high level word u use , so u dont mix it up with pointer , which is an internal implementation detaili

[raw bramble]

I don’t know much about how memory is handled (benefit/downside of Python) so I don’t really understand what the references are actually storing, like idk what a memory addresses really is

[tame vapor]

you dont really need to understand it honestly

[pallid garden]

it doesnt really make sense to think of data on the memory address level if you are writing python

[tame vapor]

if u want to fix ur mental model , think of everything in python as a box , this box is called an object

[raw bramble]

I want to learn Rust (and maybe C) and I think it’d be useful there, no?

[tame vapor]

so
2 thisis a box , that has the value 2

[tame vapor]

yeah , in C , a pointer is a specific language concept , and u would learn it there
maybe when you learn that , it will be easier to learn how it works in python

[pallid garden]

every language has its own way of dealing with memory, you shouldnt conflate the concepts from one language with another

[tame vapor]

(although a "pointer" can generically mean "the one who points" in any language, in C it is a specific language construct)

[pallid garden]

the concept of reference in C++ is very different from the concept of reference in rust, for example

[raw bramble]

But a memory address is still the same idea though, no?

[tame vapor]

it isnt really helpful to mix langauges . If you are learning about python lists , learn about them , use the python lingo
if u want to learn what pointers in C are , learn that

try not to use words and lingo from one language into another as it can create confusion

once u learn both independently , then u can start to understand the similarities

[tame vapor]

memory address is the most common way pointers work, yes

if u want to point to some memory , u store its address , thats the basic idea

[cerulean ravine]

you can think of memory as a long sequence of bytes. They are numbered, 0, 1, 2, ... 16G or something. A low-level 64-bit int is stored in eight consecutive bytes. An object in Python might take 28 consecutive bytes. The address of the object is the byte number of its first byte.

@raw bramble at a low level, a pointer is a byte number (offset) stored as a low-level 64-bit integer at some other byte offset.

[raw bramble]

I don’t get what this means, but I understand the message above ;-;

I definitely need to learn a whole lot more about the physical stuff that goes into computing

[cerulean ravine]

you understand how a low-level 64-bit int can be stored as 8 bytes, yes?

[raw bramble]

Yup

[pallid garden]

none of this is physical memory address btw, the operating system hides that from you

[cerulean ravine]

ok, and a memory address is a number, the number of the byte, is that ok?

[raw bramble]

You mean like if the first byte in that int was 00000011 or smth?

[cerulean ravine]

think of memory as a long sequence of bytes. Each byte implicitly is numbered. The first byte has the address 0. The next byte has the address 1. Byte 0 can store any byte value, 0-255.

[raw bramble]

Oh okay yeah!

[tame vapor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuegQmMdy8M btw @raw bramble if u do decide to learn C and need a good resource to explain pointers , this is what helped me when i was learning
the first 5 chapters of the video is what u want

[cerulean ravine]

ok, then you can store a pointer to byte with address 1789 by storing the number 1789 at some other byte address.

[raw bramble]

So you say that bytes 0-8 are all part of the int?

[cerulean ravine]

yes, that would be a 64-bit int at address 0

[raw bramble]

Oh okay that makes sense :D

[cerulean ravine]

now a memory address is a number, and we know how to store numbers. A pointer is a number in memory that corresponds to some other memory's address.

[raw bramble]

Why would that be at address 0? Can the address have an arbitrary amount of bytes in it

[swift sparrow]

so rather than saying "what object is this", you're just saying "what's at this memory address"?

[cerulean ravine]

you said "bytes 0-8 are all part of the int", so it's address 0. If you said "bytes 100-108 are the int", then it would have the address 100.

[golden mortar]

I think when you said "bytes 0-8", nedbat took that to mean "the byte at offset 0 in memory"

[tame vapor]

Can the address have an arbitrary amount of bytes in it
(if u meant , " can the address be 128 bits", then no , an address on a 64 bit system will be 64 bits , regardless of what is stored at that address. A pointer always has a fixed size and it depends on ur computer.)

the data that is stored at that address can have varying size

an int will have 28 bytes, a string may have 150 bytes, it doesnt matter
but a pointer to both of those will always be 64 bits

[swift sparrow]

does the pointer know how many bytes the data is?

[tame vapor]

no , the pyobject knows , i think
https://docs.python.org/3/c-api/object.html#c.PyObject_Length
yeah

[golden mortar]

It's just a 64-bit address, so no

[cerulean ravine]

at this level, it's all just bytes. How to interpret the bytes has to be information from somewhere else. Including knowing that the 8 bytes are a pointer instead of an int.

[tame vapor]

in C , this would cause mayham if u said a pointer is just a memory address xd

[arctic plank]

Hi

[cerulean ravine]

hey there

[floral terrace]

I love when people ask such abstract questions and then big-brained people give such detailed answers. Bless your heart for letting me steal all of these information. Even though I still don't know what to do with it

[quasi shuttle]

a memory address and a type

[cerulean ravine]

it's not stealing. we are gifting it to you. It's called "learning"

[golden mortar]

Rather than you stealing the information, it's more like we're infecting your brain with it.

[cerulean ravine]

viral teaching!

[floral terrace]

I hope it's super infectious then

[golden mortar]

It is, the human brain is primed to absorb information whether you want it to or not.

[pallid garden]

memetic hazard

[golden mortar]

Although:

"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far." - Call of Cthulhu

[pallid garden]

lovecraft predicted FCNN

[golden mortar]

Hm, that feels like a good concept for a cosmic sci-fi horror story. We build an AI that is smart enough to deduce some horrible truth that we are too dumb to realize ourselves.

[pallid garden]

that || pineapple is good on pizza ||

[cerulean ravine]

At PyCon, there was a picture on stage of a pizza with pineapple on it. Paolo Melchiorre said, "at PyCon Italia that would be a code of conduct violation"

[pallid garden]

[floral terrace]

Flexible Convolutional Neural Network?

[pallid garden]

fully connected

[floral terrace]

so Lovecraft predicted a widely-used machine learning model?

[pallid garden]

no im just joking

[floral terrace]

and I'm trying to understand :/

u know wot, no need to explain, I'm just stupid

[pallid garden]

im just joking that a fully connected neural network will be able to fully correlate all of its parameters

[floral terrace]

will it tho

[golden mortar]

It's a joke referencing the part of the quote that says "the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents" i. e. inability to connect its contents, but an FCNN is fully connected. It's nothing deeper than that.

It's just about the wording.

[floral terrace]

oh, apparently my mind is unable to correlate all its content :/

[golden mortar]

Guess you're not an AI then.

[floral terrace]

but still

blessed be the mind too small for doubt
war ham 40k

[golden mortar]

Warhammer 40k is also all about cosmic horror.

[viral vale]

Hey everyone 👋

[golden mortar]

Hi there

[viral vale]

@golden mortar are u a student or currently doing any job?

[golden mortar]

I'm employed

[viral vale]

Oh nice
Which company?

[golden mortar]

Until the end of the month, a company that builds financial exchange systems. Next month I'm starting at a consultancy firm, with a placement at a bank as a platform engineer.

[viral vale]

What will be your task there?

Means, what really will u do as a platform engineer

[candid orbit]

I assume you're mainly using Java or C++?

Unless you're doing more platform work?

[golden mortar]

Java, Kotlin and Typescript, mainly, at my current job.

[final hollow]

shit wrong server, sorry guys

[golden mortar]

I think in the short term I'm mainly going to be doing CVE patching, long term I'm not sure.

[candid orbit]

Is this your first company after graduating?

[golden mortar]

Nope

[pallid garden]

java for legacy code, kotline for current backend, typescript for frontend?

[final hollow]

dementati, is your name intentionally close to "demented"?

[golden mortar]

No, I tried to sell JavaKotlin for our new product, but I only managed to convince them to use it for the web server, so it's Java for most of the backend services.

[quartz fulcrum]

how important __slots__ are

[golden mortar]

It's "dementation" from the Vampire RPG with the "on" cut off due to a username character length limit on some forum I registered for when I was a teenager

[swift sparrow]

when you really care about optimization

[cerulean ravine]

they aren't important. where are you reading about them?

[quartz fulcrum]

last topic of inheritenca

[cerulean ravine]

and you very very rarely care about that much optimization

[quartz fulcrum]

inheritance

[cerulean ravine]

where?

[quartz fulcrum]

in the course

[golden mortar]

So not really legacy, it's more like the primary language

[swift sparrow]

yeah perhaps I should emphasize when you really care about optimization

[cerulean ravine]

you don't need them, but will you be tested on them?

[pallid garden]

at least it's java

[golden mortar]

It's fine. Kotlin is better though.

[viral vale]

How many projects in cv are considered as good

[quartz fulcrum]

nope ned, i want to skip it

[cerulean ravine]

you should skip it

[swift sparrow]

just understand what they are at a surface level for now

you don't have to worry about best practice/implementation

[quartz fulcrum]

okay

[cerulean ravine]

i would say you don't have to know anything about them except, "__slots__ is a class thing I don't need to know about"

[inland karma]

i would have to check, but im not sure i have every used slots for something real

[wise yarrow]

I think for most people slots is just a nice kwarg for dataclasses.dataclass

or a default thing you don't think about for attrs

[inland karma]

oh i love that phrase...

[golden mortar]

If you're ever reading and trying to understand some code, and you run across a usage of __slots__, then maybe look it up. Until that happens, forget it.

[tranquil turtle]

Hi guys! imnew

[viral vale]

Hi 👋

[golden mortar]

Hello and welcome

[inland karma]

welcome!

[cerulean ravine]

hey there, I'm old!

[viral vale]

🤣

[tranquil turtle]

im mainly a roblox dev

but i like python too

[golden mortar]

Possibly the oldest

[quartz fulcrum]

lol

dont say this ned

you are young as you learn

[tranquil turtle]

i literally started python in 2021

[pallid garden]

that's a long time

[cerulean ravine]

my body is starting to disagree

[tranquil turtle]

yea ik but python isnt my main focus

[wise yarrow]

roblox would be lua right?

[tranquil turtle]

yep

recently i got interested in uhh system integration, basically making roblox and python interact with each other

[viral vale]

In 2021 i think i was in my school, don't have any idea about coding thing 😅

[quartz fulcrum]

yeah...being healthy is difficult in middle and old age

[tranquil turtle]

u have no ide ahow young i was when i started coding

[inland karma]

you get these DLCs in life that you cant uninstall... i got the one where my shoulder hurts! 😄

[tranquil turtle]

i started with scratch

[viral vale]

At which age u started coding

[tranquil turtle]

2^3

[fair rose]

Hi

[slow rivet]

I got the anxiety one!

[fair rose]

How are you

[tranquil turtle]

Hello!

[viral vale]

Hello mate

[fair rose]

I am new here

[quartz fulcrum]

how old are you @cerulean ravine ?...i want to know

[tranquil turtle]

what are u interested in?

[tranquil turtle]

sus....

[cerulean ravine]

crazy old

[viral vale]

💀

[fair rose]

I am new to Python

[tranquil turtle]

im 13 now and ik python, luau ( roblox )

[viral vale]

Above 100 ? 🤣

[tranquil turtle]

CENTENARIAN

[fair rose]

How to start Python

[cerulean ravine]

yes, but I won't tell you in what base.

[spice hill]

Above 0b100?

[viral vale]

Ok

[tranquil turtle]

whats ur guys field of interest?

[tranquil turtle]

that is 4 right?

[quartz fulcrum]

dont skip exercises..i know you know this..but that is the most imp thing

[brisk gazelle]

!beginner

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[viral vale]

I'm interested in machine learning thing

[spice hill]

that's correct

[candid orbit]

Ah ok. How'd you get into that comapny? That side of fintech, companies like IEX are my target

[spice hill]

I too am older than 4

[tranquil turtle]

cool! im interested in apis and system integration

[tranquil turtle]

everyone is

[spice hill]

nah, when you're born, you are younger than 4

[tranquil turtle]

that means my age is 0b1011

[viral vale]

Cool things, system integration is really interesting

[tranquil turtle]

yeah especially roblox with python

like imagine a website control panel, and if you press abutton, it uses an api to control things in roblox

[slow rivet]

Is that actually possible?

[viral vale]

Huh that sounds cool

[tranquil turtle]

i mean, roblox has httpservice for sending requests

[viral vale]

@tranquil turtle you from which country?

[inland karma]

a few things are possible

[tranquil turtle]

so u could make roblox send a request asking what event it should do, and once the website gets a button press, it tells roblox that specific event

[slow rivet]

Oh really, just feels like a thing they wouldn't allow

[inland karma]

you cant affect the player user space

[tranquil turtle]

india

[viral vale]

@tranquil turtle same here

[slow rivet]

Right but I suppose you could still do crypto mining on the CPU and similar then

[tranquil turtle]

🇮🇳

[tranquil turtle]

whats ur field of interest?

[inland karma]

many of these tools do that... a huge % of them

[golden mortar]

A friend of mine from uni was a trainee at a related company and recommended me for their trainee program, about 12 years ago. I got headhunted for my current position by people who had worked at that company previously.

[viral vale]

@tranquil turtle i am currently now in college doing btech in the computer science field and exploring machine learning side using python and python libraries

[golden mortar]

Probably not very helpful for you, unfortunately.

[tranquil turtle]

12 YEARS?! thats 12/13 = like 92% of ma life

[tranquil turtle]

cool! but uhh im in 8th grade. 😅

and yes, i started python when i was EIGHT

[candid orbit]

Ah

[viral vale]

@tranquil turtle u are really ahead of your generation

[tranquil turtle]

idk coding seemed rlly cool to me

[candid orbit]

It reinforces some ideas

[viral vale]

@golden mortar why?

[golden mortar]

Why what?

[tranquil turtle]

yeah ik, it started when my dad showed me scratch, and from then on i started exploring more and more, and here i am now

[restive crane]

why?

[tranquil turtle]

he didnt even force me or enroll me in any class, i just was curious

[viral vale]

@golden mortar u said it to me?
Or someone else

[swift sparrow]

"A friend helped me in" isn't usually helpful advice when asking someone how they got the role

[golden mortar]

Someone else.

[viral vale]

@golden mortar ok misunderstanding

[tranquil turtle]

IS THAT SOCRATES IN UR PFP!?

[golden mortar]

No, it's Epicurus.

[tranquil turtle]

mine is my roblox avatar lol ( drew it myself since im also a digital artist )

[swift sparrow]

the food guy?

[tranquil turtle]

when did u guys start coding?

[swift sparrow]

age 28

[tranquil turtle]

guys i dont think u should reveal ur ages

[floral terrace]

sound more like a job for JS rather than Python to me

[pallid garden]

we are adults

[golden mortar]

Well, he is the etymological origin of 'epicurean', but it's a bit misleading to call him a food guy...

[tranquil turtle]

not rlly, it involves js ( react ), fastapi/flask ( python ) AND roblox

[restive crane]

7 or 8

[tranquil turtle]

yrs ago?

[restive crane]

no when I was 7 or 8

[slow rivet]

Around 10 I think, memory is fuzzy

[tranquil turtle]

same here! but i started with scratch

[restive crane]

I started with batch

[golden mortar]

11-ish

[tranquil turtle]

cool! i thought i was the only kid interested in coding

[restive crane]

it was so shit

[tranquil turtle]

it all started when my dad showed me scratch, and my natural curiousty ( i was 8 ok? ) lead me to explore coding more

u guys all use a mac or linux right? i use a macos monterey

[floral terrace]

I can't still see why you need Python as BE, using JS to map the inputs is not enough?

[swift sparrow]

all windows here

[tame vapor]

windows
sometimes debian based

[pallid garden]

no doors?

[slow rivet]

I use Linux now, but mainly used windows when I was first learning

[tranquil turtle]

i dont even use js that much

[swift sparrow]

no, pls send help

[tranquil turtle]

its a OS

[quartz fulcrum]

ah ok

[tranquil turtle]

i used windows 8 first, now i use a mac

[tame vapor]

if u think about it , a door is just a big window

[tranquil turtle]

(laptop)

[pallid garden]

https://tenor.com/view/help-michael-scott-gif-23951904

[tranquil turtle]

but with blinders

[golden mortar]

My dad's a musician and my mom is a librarian, so they're basically tech illiterate. I kinda got into it on my own accord.

[viral vale]

Bro are u guys sure about that u started coding at age of 8/10
Bro that is insane

[tranquil turtle]

cool

[tame vapor]

no i started at like 18

[tranquil turtle]

does scratch count?

[golden mortar]

It's not that uncommon, especially nowadays.

[golden mortar]

It does, it's a Turing-complete language.

[tranquil turtle]

if not i probably started b/w 8 and 9

[viral vale]

@golden mortar yes that's true

[restive crane]

it is?

[golden mortar]

Yes

[tranquil turtle]

wait what

[restive crane]

woah

[swift sparrow]

technically I started with actionscript in flash, but I didn't get too far

[tame vapor]

💀 thats crazy

[tranquil turtle]

we all start somewhere

[restive crane]

peak

[viral vale]

I started my coding journey with C programming

[swift sparrow]

it was a good time for sure

[golden mortar]

Turing completeness doesn't require much, so it's not that surprising.

[tranquil turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/ares-god-of-war-xwp-hercules-the-legendary-journeys-kevin-tod-smith-gif-27339136

[golden mortar]

Minecraft redstone is also Turing complete.

[tranquil turtle]

yeah thats why its pushed to the ABSOLUTE LIMIT
also what abt geometry dash

do u guys code in any other language too? i tried java and c++ too but ehh its kinda boring

[golden mortar]

What about it?

[golden mortar]

I write Java for a living, so yes.

[inland karma]

i read java, but seldom write it

[restive crane]

true

[tranquil turtle]

i dont drink java? i dont drink coffee since im only 13

do u guys code as a job or as a passion?

[golden mortar]

You typically end up having to use a lot of different languages.

[golden mortar]

Both.

[slow rivet]

I mainly use rust these days, and have to use java for uni

[viral vale]

My 2nd coding language was c++, and it made my base stronger then i shifted to python

[restive crane]

how much does it pay coding in java (if I can ask)

[golden mortar]

It pays very well.

[tranquil turtle]

I mainly use luau, python and jsx ( react )

luau is for roblox if u dont know

[golden mortar]

There's high stable demand since it's such a popular enterprise language.

[quartz fulcrum]

where java is used?

[tranquil turtle]

What about system integrations and cloud computing?

[viral vale]

Java has high demand in the Indian market specially

[golden mortar]

Primarily in enterprise backends.

[quartz fulcrum]

like?

[golden mortar]

Those concepts are kind of language agnostic.

[golden mortar]

Like in finance, for example.

[granite wyvern]

Mostly as a passion, but I also do it for work.

[viral vale]

Cloud computing has a very large market and aws, google,azure

[arctic plank]

Is it stupid to read a code u dont understand?

[swift sparrow]

depends if you feel like you're getting something out of it

[tranquil turtle]

yeah im VERY interested in apis

[golden mortar]

Well, you should try to learn to understand it.

[quartz fulcrum]

i hope i get at least an internship this year
.....is it possible?

[arctic plank]

Kk

[viral vale]

U should proceed with it

[tranquil turtle]

its a shame i cant use aws, azure or google since i dont have a credit and card and im probably underage for it

[viral vale]

Use your parents

[tranquil turtle]

mainly integrating it with roblox and frontend

[viral vale]

Ok

[quartz fulcrum]

i am surprised you are surviving on discord as an underage(if you are).

[tranquil turtle]

nah there are some free alternatives that also dont need much personal info, like vercel, netlify and render

[tranquil turtle]

wdym discord is 13 and up?

[restive crane]

not everyone here is an adult too

[arctic plank]

Yh

[quartz fulcrum]

i think yes

[granite wyvern]

Really, I'd hope nobody cared.

[viral vale]

I want to work with apis, can anyone guide me on how to start

[granite wyvern]

Might be jurisdiction spcific.

[tranquil turtle]

like make ur own apis?

[restive crane]

I don't think it is

[golden mortar]

The Discord ToS dictates that users be 13+, or at least it used to.

I haven't looked it up recently.

[granite wyvern]

Then @tranquil turtle should be fine.

[tranquil turtle]

ok lets not dive into ages, python is for everyone

[quartz fulcrum]

yes!

[restive crane]

Age 16+: The Netherlands, Poland, Spain, Germany, Ireland, and several other European Union countries.
Age 15+: France, Czech Republic, Greece, and Slovakia.
Age 14+: Austria, Bulgaria, Italy, Lithuania, and Spain.
Age 13+: Discord's Global Minimum

[tranquil turtle]

@viral vale if u wanna create ur own python apis, i suggest watching a tutorial on FastAPI, its the best place to start imo

[viral vale]

Ok

How to get good project ideas, is there any suggestions from anyone

[granite wyvern]

!kind
We have a list of suggestions.

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[swift sparrow]

Think of something that personally interests you or would improve your own life

[granite wyvern]

Otherwise, make something (small) which you would like to have.

[tranquil turtle]

idk, maybe like solving personal problem, or a new concept u wanna explore

[tranquil turtle]

WE DO?! do u know where they are?!

[granite wyvern]

See above.

[viral vale]

Ok that's mean first i need to look in my personal life and make projects around it

[tranquil turtle]

ok thk!

[tranquil turtle]

yeah

[golden mortar]

For example, I wrote a web app to track my weightlifting and running progress.

It felt motivating to work on it since I actually used and got benefit from it.

[viral vale]

That's cool

[swift sparrow]

I play a card game with friends which is a pain to score, so I made a little app that we could use to help us score the game

[tranquil turtle]

how does it track that? does it use a camera to see what ur doing physically and use neural networks to determine what ur doing?

[tranquil turtle]

cool!

[quartz fulcrum]

I also thought of making a webapp
...but that is not where i wanna go into

[viral vale]

Ok bye guys 👋
I have classes

[restive crane]

I think you enter in the values post run

[tranquil turtle]

if wanna go, just do it!

[golden mortar]

If you like movies or TV shows, you could write an app to track which movies and TV shows you've watched, and maybe recommend new movies and shows to watch based on what you already watched, or other criteria.

[tranquil turtle]

bye

[golden mortar]

No, I just write down my results manually.

[tranquil turtle]

ive always thought abt making like a roblox admin abuse control panel in react, and use an api to actually make it happen in roblox

thats EXACTLY the field i wanan explore

[golden mortar]

But it's still useful, because I do a lot of different exercises, and it can be hard to remember what weights and rep count I'm supposed to use for each one.

[tranquil turtle]

ooooo ok

i read ur username as dementia 😭

[quartz fulcrum]

do you go to gym?

[golden mortar]

It's also nice because I can graph my progress over time and evaluate which exercises and muscle groups I'm having trouble developing.

[golden mortar]

No, I work out at home.

[tranquil turtle]

i dont exxercise, but i cycle like daily

im obth tall and heavy for my age

[golden mortar]

That's good, that's a form of exercise.

[tranquil turtle]

*both

[tranquil turtle]

yeah, but mostly to get to places, not for exercise ONLY

[golden mortar]

As long as you get enough time in each day, it doesn't matter.

[tranquil turtle]

im literally 5'5 or 165 cm ( yes rlly )

[arctic plank]

Does it require any third party modules?

[tranquil turtle]

i think it takes like 20 minutes

[tranquil turtle]

what requires that?

[golden mortar]

Ideally you want to do physical activity for at least 30 minutes a day, though walking is sufficient.

[arctic plank]

The workout tracker

[golden mortar]

Not a lot

[tranquil turtle]

yeah it definetely takes atleast 30 minutes, but not all at once

[hexed zinc]

Hi

[golden mortar]

I think it's flask + sqlalchemy for the backend and react for the frontend

I think maybe I pulled in something to render the graphs

[tranquil turtle]

is it flask-sqlalchemy?

[golden mortar]

Don't recall

[arctic plank]

What can the turtle be used for apart from the usual

[golden mortar]

It's mainly a learning tool

[tranquil turtle]

idk its just a drawing module

can u imagine someone new seeing our chat? they will be so confused

[arctic plank]

I was trying to learn flask a while ago but my PC crashed so I just started with automation

[arctic plank]

Nah

[tranquil turtle]

what are you using?

[floral terrace]

Do people still use flask for new projects? Apart from legacy codebases

[golden mortar]

I think I'd pick fastapi if I started today.

or maybe django

[tranquil turtle]

i mean its great for beginners, and still very powerful, but nowadays its mainly used as an api, witth vite + recat for the frontend

[golden mortar]

Don't really see why you'd pick flask over fastapi

[floral terrace]

Exactly my point tho

[tranquil turtle]

flask has databases?

[golden mortar]

No

[floral terrace]

uh what?

[tranquil turtle]

whats flask-sqlalchemy for then?

[brittle merlin]

fastapi has sqlmodel

[floral terrace]

flask and sqlalchemy are 2 separate things

[golden mortar]

It's for integrating with sqlalchemy

[tranquil turtle]

no not sqlalchemy, theres a version of it for flask

[brittle merlin]

two separate things again but sqlmodel is like sqlalchemy + pydantic

[tranquil turtle]

idk that seems simpler, fastapi is mainly fot well, APIs

[floral terrace]

so? You can use other ORMs with flask, not just sqlalchemy

[tranquil turtle]

i use flask and regular python for backend

[velvet trout]

how to stop procrastinating and work on code

dopamine coding 🥀

[tranquil turtle]

thats the neat part, u dont

[golden mortar]

Pick a project that you care about

[brittle merlin]

bro do you make money on Roblox?

[velvet trout]

This is the end.

[tranquil turtle]

i mean as a ui/ux dev, i can?

[velvet trout]

That trick doesn't work on me 😔

i think i just don't care anymore? temporarily uncared?

I don't understand myself sometimes

[brittle merlin]

do game devs really pay for UI UX designers? like for their games?

[tranquil turtle]

maybe use lofi and/or first make a readme file abt ur project

[tranquil turtle]

yeah? the ui for games is very important

[floral terrace]

I've heard bad things about sqlmodel and the reddit purists insist on sqlalchemy

[velvet trout]

Lol no hell no, that's literally one of the things i dislike about development

[brittle merlin]

bad things like?

[tranquil turtle]

just. start. da. project

[velvet trout]

i literally dislike writing english in docstring, explaining and README.md.

my brain shuts down and mood swings comes in

[tranquil turtle]

k guys ima go eat lunch now

[brittle merlin]

have u made a bag?

[floral terrace]

ye Imma definitely vibecode my readme

[velvet trout]

already in the near end of the project

[tranquil turtle]

i mean im still just starting

[brittle merlin]

oh okay

good luck

[tranquil turtle]

thk!

[velvet trout]

i did too, cliargparse's readme is literally ChatGPT generated after i shown him example and told exactly what you have to output like

[floral terrace]

Something like it's not well-maintained but maybe it's a thing in the past now

[tranquil turtle]

bye guys

[inland karma]

damn... CSS got ifstatement now

i missed that

[velvet trout]

Pretty sure people will leave the moment they suspect AI generated README so i tried to make it less AI-ish

[floral terrace]

wait what?

[inland karma]

well.. if function

[inland karma]

yeah.. just released a few days ago

[floral terrace]

huh, what to do with that information?

[brittle merlin]

I think I was having some sort of type error, not an error but IDE warning last time I worked with it

[bronze dragon]

what's with that else

[velvet trout]

i don't understand this syntax at all

[spice hill]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/Values/if looks like it's experimental, only supported by chrome now

[velvet trout]

raise ParserError("is that else inside if's condition?")

[inland karma]

you have to provide an else i think

[velvet trout]

Oh

[granite wyvern]

It doesn't need to be elaborate. Just something terse and imperative can be enough. I find it helpful to write the objective/result of the function.
Example:

def longpath(path, prefixes=None):
  ''' Return `path` with prefixes and environment variables substituted.
      The converse of `shortpath()`.
  '''

Nothing elaborate there.

[floral terrace]

I can't imagine the usecases for this rn

[inland karma]

the usecase is to not write it in js

[bronze dragon]

no, I mean why is it in a totally different font 😄

[inland karma]

screenshot from a keynote presentation

[floral terrace]

well I am so comfortable with TailwindCSS, normal CSS seems weird to me atm :/

[spice hill]

Even CSS got the order of operands in conditions expressions right 😭

must be one of my least favourite things in Python

[tranquil turtle]

this isnt related but still great vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF8d72mA41M

[velvet trout]

else is a parameter of if function?

[spice hill]

It's like SQL. Built-in functions can get arbitrary new syntax whenever the language developers feel like it

[velvet trout]

I seee, thanks. I might try to do the same

[bronze dragon]

you don't like t if c else f?

[spice hill]

no

[velvet trout]

whenever the language developers feel like it — ☠️

[spice hill]

I think the idea to use actual keywords instead of ?: was good, but reodering the operands was not

[velvet trout]

x = if cond: a else: b

Like this?

[jade robin]

rust user

[velvet trout]

is it unambiguous for else part?

[jade robin]

i very much like t if c else f over ?:

[velvet trout]

where is my elif 😔

[jade robin]

t1 if c t2 elif c2 t3 elif c3 else t4

[velvet trout]

Rip

[spice hill]

Yes, something like this

There's a PEP for the conditional expression: https://peps.python.org/pep-0308/
I'm a bit confused about the outcome. Looks like there was a vote and (if C: x else: y) won, but then BDFL decided to use a different syntax anyway. Maybe some details or context are missing.

[velvet trout]

python should've taken braces approach

😋

x = if condition { ... } else { ... }

[jade robin]

x = if cond: 
       p
    elif cond2:
       q
    else:
       r

[pallid garden]

they should have made this apply for literally all expressions

[jade robin]

okay this sucks far more

[velvet trout]

Fr

[spice hill]

x = if cond: (p) elif cond2: (q) else: (r)
``` something like this

[velvet trout]

Python 4.0's syntax leaked!

[jade robin]

i'm not gonna like this either unless they do the rust thing and return from the scope if it's a value consistently throughout

[spice hill]

or maybe give up on the elif thing, and just ```py
x = if cond: p else: (if cond2: q else r)

[jade robin]

this alr exists, no?
x = p if cond else (q if cond2 else r)

[velvet trout]

Yeah it does

[spice hill]

Yes, my gripe is with the ordering. It's hard for me to read conditional expressions because the condition is in the middle of it

as opposed to being the first operand

[jade robin]

eh, i mean python does do it differently but you get used to it p quickly

[spice hill]

There's a reason if statements are not like this: ```py
do:
...
if condition else:
...

[jade robin]

(the reason is the extra do looks dumb)

[velvet trout]

in iterable for x, y: ...

[jade robin]

it's also a language choice, i don't particularly hate it

[velvet trout]

I sometimes dislike having to shift my eyes from left to right to check what we are iterating over.

[pallid garden]

chatter, you have to shift your eyes when you're reading

[slender urchin]

you don't know my fov

[spark obsidian]

just add a plugin to describe the code line by line with a subways surfers gameplay in the background

[pallid garden]

finally, an eye for microsoft's naming

[gleaming knoll]

is this the longest powershell name

[pallid garden]

who knows

[charred tusk]

Someone counted

That’s the one that gets used in the memes

[inland karma]

https://gist.github.com/kevinblumenfeld/03c469285008659c8ce637214a1b21e3#file-cmdletsfrommggraph-ps1-L5962

[edgy kraken]

cmdletsFromMgGraph.ps1 line 5962

Invoke-MgExtendDeviceManagementDeviceConfigurationGroupAssignmentDeviceConfigurationMicrosoftGraphWindowUpdateForBusinessConfigurationFeatureUpdatePause```

[noble venture]

hi

[noble venture]

is a week and a half w/ 4-5 hours of studying enough to cover basics of matplotlib - numpy

[ocean ridge]

tf is this?

[pallid garden]

knowing the basics vs knowing how to use it is 2 different things

you should just practice

[arctic plank]

Pycharm

[noble venture]

where would be applying while learning be

[pallid garden]

like write some programs to calculate some values from a table using numpy

[ocean ridge]

meanwhile me instead naming it as

MSWinUpdatePause

@pallid garden do you use low level langs often?

[pallid garden]

no

[ocean ridge]

is there a good job demand for low level langs..?

[pallid garden]

for entry level?

no

[inland karma]

proof that naming is hard

[pallid garden]

zehata ahh naming

[dreamy vigil]

hello
for token in tokens:
if token is in keywords:
print ("next")
else
_input = "error : unknown keyword"
apparantly 'in' is invalid syntax what did i do wrong?

[slender urchin]

imagine if we actually named our variables using kaomoji

[swift sparrow]

you have an is in there

[oak oyster]

Remove is

[swift sparrow]

if token in keywords would be correct

[dreamy vigil]

ok

thanks

yes it is working now

[velvet trout]

What are you making

[dreamy vigil]

"'py
_input = open("temp/input","r").read()

keywords = ["struct","body","par"]

errorcorrection_code = _input

preped_error_code = errorcorrection_code.replace("["," ")
preped_error_code = errorcorrection_code.replace("]"," ")
preped_error_code = errorcorrection_code.replace("{"," ")
preped_error_code = errorcorrection_code.replace("}"," ")

tokens = preped_error_code.split(" ")

for token in tokens:
if token is keywords:
print ("next")
else:
_input = "error : unknown keyword"

output= _input

open("temp/output","w").write(output)
"'

i inputed body[] it is coming as an error

[swift sparrow]

attempting to do what?

[velvet trout]

.split(), default is a whitespace

[dreamy vigil]

did i gave the wrong input

[velvet trout]

i gotta make a PR to fix that

[gleaming knoll]

because after your replaces the string is "body ", and "body ".split(" ") == ["body", "", ""], and the empty strings are unknown tokens
passing a space argument to split explicitly is different from not passing an argument

[swift sparrow]

preped_error_code = errorcorrection_code.replace("["," ")
preped_error_code = errorcorrection_code.replace("]"," ")
preped_error_code = errorcorrection_code.replace("{"," ")
preped_error_code = errorcorrection_code.replace("}"," ")

this isn't quite doing anything too useful

[velvet trout]

Are you making a new programming language

[swift sparrow]

you keep overwriting the old value

[rugged barn]

[dreamy vigil]

only right now

[dreamy vigil]

thanks

[gleaming knoll]

it will also be wrong once you have a string literal with those special characters in the source code. you cant just replace on the whole source

[dreamy vigil]

you seem to be an expert

[gleaming knoll]

you should write a proper tokenizer, either with some simple state machine (loop, check what character it is, if its starting an identifier - get all chars until non-identifier, same with numbers etc) or just use regex

[grim socket]

Anyone got enough power to bestow screen sharing on this humble Python docs orator for VC 0 please ?

[dreamy vigil]

i am only experimenting right now

why cant you upload pics here

[gleaming knoll]

well, i am warning you that you wont be able to properly implement a programming language with this approach

[swift sparrow]

Only in this channel. Feel free to open a help thread if you'd like to share images