python-discussion

[smoky hatch]

You’re saying this as if I was thinking about what to pick before

[brittle merlin]

@ocean ridge tuiman out now

[autumn forge]

you probably mean == True, but in Python, writing if expr == True: ... is often redundant: if expr: ... achieves the same thing by implicitly casting expr to a boolean value

[smoky hatch]

No, humanoid as in humanoid health for example, or slowing player’s movement speed

[brittle merlin]

I rushed it a little using AI tho

never rush a great project

[ocean ridge]

oh nice. il take a look at it soon

[frigid trout]

Yes, that's tricky, use BrawlDev's tutorials, those are really good

[brittle merlin]

btw how's the text editor?

[frigid trout]

But then again Roblox is starting to become a toxic place to develop games.

[spiral minnow]

yes, == True

[autumn forge]

I don't know how much programming experience you already have. If you're a beginner I'd recommend learning the basics of the language before attempting to program graphical applications

[brittle merlin]

did you add searching in text files?

[frigid trout]

What is the shortcut in Visual Studio Code to indent stuff

[autumn forge]

tab

[frigid trout]

Multiple lines

[spiral minnow]

select what u want to indent and then press tab

[autumn forge]

select multiple lines and press tab

[short flame]

How about if u have many lines to indented

[spiral minnow]

select lines what u want to indent and then press tab

[frigid trout]

I tried that before but it didn't do anything... now it works

[spiral minnow]

at least.. it works

@gentle pine ello! remember me?

[floral terrace]

how about using a formatter?

[autumn forge]

I think you can also do ctrl+], in the same way that ctrl+[ de-indents the currently selected section

[gray siren]

You are learning in Wrong approach!!

[smoky hatch]

Then what should I do? I only know what is on scratch

[frigid trout]

Python, learn Python or Lua or Javascript

[smoky hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/scratch-cat-scratch-cat-coding-programming-gif-15053068914252512039

[autumn forge]

a formatter cannot always guess what you mean

[half pewter]

anyone else hate pivot tables?

[smoky hatch]

But I know some of python, I just don’t know how to use it

[frigid trout]

What are they

[autumn forge]

for example, how should ```py
if x:
print('y')
print('z')

[floral terrace]

I'm just suggesting a tool

[gray siren]

I learn python And 3d blender Just in 1 month and become pro

[frigid trout]

You don't get ideas on what to make?

[half pewter]

they calculate aggregates

[smoky hatch]

I’ve tried ideas from internet but I could barely make 1

[frigid trout]

Your projects can be small like at least 10 lines of code

[floral terrace]

syntax error? kinda unique to python because it's indent-based

[gentle pine]

yo

[frigid trout]

If you don't know something then you should google how to do it and then learn that and implement it

[smoky hatch]

But sometimes it’s like I don’t even know how to start implementing it

[frigid trout]

Arguments are something that you pass into a function, right?

[floral terrace]

ruff can't even handle this, you need to satisfy the intepreter first

[frigid trout]

Just think of how to do it in English and use code to make it, code is like a dog, it won't do anything unless you tell it what to do and it becomes a useful tool.

[autumn forge]

what I am saying is that the programmer could have intended for print('z') to be either inside the if x block or outside it. The formatter cannot guess which is the correct interpretation

[floral terrace]

I didn't argue?

[gray siren]

1. Understand the Software Or Platform in 2 to 4 days
2. Learn Basic Watch tutorials, Note Just Watching tutorial will never be make you Pro U need To dive into it
3. Make Basic Project in parts, make Basic basic Things which Make You confident and you will be More interested into it
4. Now Keep On upgrading your self!!

[brisk gazelle]

What happens if you understand it in 5 days?

Do you have to go off and do something else?

[gray siren]

😂

[frigid trout]

Learn Javascript

[short flame]

Thanks for that miss china

[gray siren]

So, eat 5star do nothing 😂

[short flame]

Really

[frigid trout]

I learned Blender within a week.

Hence Gilbert.

[gray siren]

Yes.. currently I am learning Machine learning and making powerbi project

[frigid trout]

Because you're a Data Science student

[gray siren]

Yeah but still I am unemployed

[frigid trout]

I am too, it's okay.

Actually I am not unemployed

[gray siren]

What is your background?

[frigid trout]

Unemployed means someone who is ready to work but can't find a job.

I'm not ready to work so I am not unemployed, so I am a student.

[short flame]

So if I wanna do it will I stop doing anything and only focus on it

[frigid trout]

A white wall, with a clock behind me

[silent fable]

Hi

[stray field]

Add some plants and a window

[gray siren]

Yess Just you need to give time !!

[frigid trout]

On the side to be there is a window.

[short flame]

And what did the clock ⏰ says 🤔

[frigid trout]

print("6:07 PM")

[gray siren]

🎉 wakeup it's 2014

[stray field]

The clock is not a fox

[short flame]

Yeah now I divide my time i don't know if that would work some am learning python some html and little bit emotional intelligence

[frigid trout]

You tried to get my location via timezone, won't work. Since I live in Antarctica

[short flame]

Lol 😆 pythonist is talking

[gray siren]

Really?!

[frigid trout]

The mods will get angry if we don't talk about Python

[frigid trout]

Maybe?

[frigid trout]

It's pythonista actually, that's what you call the python community members. According to an article

[gray siren]

Don't learn Html You can Do it with Ai !!

[frigid trout]

What

[craggy trench]

don't learn html so ai can do it for you

[short flame]

Who care about location bro 👀 🤔

[craggy trench]

just be warned, ai output may differ from what you want

[gray siren]

Giving Time On HTML in 2026 🙂

[frigid trout]

Okay.

[short flame]

Really didn't even know

[frigid trout]

Why doesn't it return the full sorted list?#Chicken Sort
#Given a list of integers it will select the largest one then put that into a list to be sorted. After that it will look left
#and right to and if big number near it will sort that too, keep doing till all sorted.
#Made by B3/Snappybettafish
give_list = [2, 5,9,8,4,5]

#Chicken Sort
#Given a list of integers it will select the largest one then put that into a list to be sorted. After that it will look left
#and right to and if big number near it will sort that too, keep doing till all sorted.
#Made by B3/Snappybettafish
give_list = [2, 5,9,8,4,5]
def Chicken_Sort(give_list):
    print("Given List:",give_list)#Given List
    num = max(give_list)
    #print("Largest Number from Given List:",num)
    index = give_list.index(num)
    new_list = [num]
    #print("Sorted List:",newList)
    for i in range(len(give_list) - 1):
        give_list.remove(num)
        num = max(give_list)
        #print("Largest Number from Given List",num)
        index = give_list.index(num)
        left = give_list[index - 1]
        right = give_list[index + 0]
        if left > right:
            new_list.append(left)
            #print("Sorted List:", newList)
            #print(give_list)
            #print(left)
        else:
            new_list.append(right)
            #print(give_list)
            #print(right)
        #print("Sorted List:",new_list)
        return new_list
print(Chicken_Sort(give_list))

If I do print(new_list) it gives the sorted list but if I do return new_list it doesn't give the sorted list.

[craggy trench]

you can program anything in AI nowadays, doesn't mean it does what you want it to do but you can program anything in AI

[half pewter]

I hate html but I'd still write it myself before I'd let an AI, Always learn the syntax you're using before you let AI get anywhere near it..

[frigid trout]

Virus

[craggy trench]

you're returning in the loop

[stray field]

check the indentation of your return statement

[frigid trout]

Thanks

I wrote the thing myself

[gray siren]

Agree but Spending more time to learn html is stupid in 2026

[stray field]

Thanks for not using AI

[cerulean ravine]

it's not stupid.

[short flame]

But guys I have something that stuck on my code if user enters data its not saving it in my hard drive

[slender urchin]

If it's a short snippet post it here, otherwise open a help channel

[gray siren]

Ok master 🙂‍↕️

[frigid trout]

This doesn't do any phishing scams does it?

Why does it show a phishing exclamation mark?

Check:https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/ed597da82f529af4341be9f6a3b23ac107b7d66440855b005c7fb015b7941807

[stray field]

This is a discord invite

[charred tusk]

<@&831776746206265384> Vercel link that redirects to a Discord server with a "create ticket" button that asks for your "wallet ID"

[half pewter]

to a server named "support ticket"

[azure pine]

any resource for pandas aside docs?
more of a practical way to learn ?

[gray siren]

Yes I can Teach you !!

[frigid trout]

What is the point of pandas and how will it make an AI

[inland karma]

@acoustic kestrel you have a few seconds to fix this

[azure pine]

?

[frigid trout]

evil look, from virus totalhttps://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/ed597da82f529af4341be9f6a3b23ac107b7d66440855b005c7fb015b7941807

For his website/link

[inland karma]

!cleanban 1064119452897132545 phishing scams does not work here. you are no longer welcome

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @acoustic kestrel permanently.

[frigid trout]

YES, I found the evidence

[charred tusk]

That doesn't really tell us anything
Only one entry just looks like a false positive

[frigid trout]

What, so he was innocent?

[inland karma]

i think that is common for almost all vercel apps

[frigid trout]

You just banned him, right

[inland karma]

thank you! i aborted work to take a look because you pinged!

[gray siren]

Search On google Pandas Doc you will get Official Pandas Doc File In that you will get everything You need to know

[rare gazelle]

hello

[azure pine]

Ok Thanks.

[frigid trout]

VirustTotal is a good website to find out bad websites

[charred tusk]

That's not what I said
I said that VirusTotal shouldn't be taken so authoritavely
ESPSECIALLY with only one flag

[frigid trout]

Okay

[inland karma]

yes, but he did get a second chance to respond. but these are just automated messages and not real or by accident sent out

[charred tusk]

Any excuse to avoid work!

[inland karma]

we had one with 12ish flags for mallware

[frigid trout]

Oh, didn't know that these bots also send messages like those.

[inland karma]

my django app is still working! 😄

[inland karma]

often self bots, and we ban them on sight

[charred tusk]

Now thats a cause for concern!

[frigid trout]

Is there anything I should improve with this algortihm?

#Chicken Sort
#Given a list of integers it will select the largest one then put that into a list to be sorted. After that it will look left
#and right to and if big number near it will sort that too, keep doing till all sorted.
#Made by B3/Snappybettafish
give_list = [2, 5,9,8,4,5]
def Chicken_Sort(give_list):
    print("Given List:",give_list)#Given List
    num = max(give_list)
    #print("Largest Number from Given List:",num)
    index = give_list.index(num)
    new_list = [num]
    #print("Sorted List:",newList)
    for i in range(len(give_list) - 1):
        give_list.remove(num)
        num = max(give_list)
        #print("Largest Number from Given List",num)
        index = give_list.index(num)
        left = give_list[index - 1]
        right = give_list[index + 0]
        if left > right:
            new_list.append(left)
            #print("Sorted List:", newList)
            #print(give_list)
            #print(left)
        else:
            new_list.append(right)
            #print(give_list)
            #print(right)
        #print("Sorted List:",new_list)
    return new_list
print(Chicken_Sort(give_list))

[rare gazelle]

i have an alternative

[floral terrace]

.xkcd 303

[inland karma]

.xkcd 303

[verbal wedge]

XKCD comic #303

'Are you stealing those LCDs?' 'Yeah, but I'm doing it while my code compiles.'

2007/8/15 - #303, 'Compiling'

[inland karma]

ahh.. nice

[raven urchin]

lmao

[jagged belfry]

s/code compiling/claude is thinking/g

[inland karma]

what does the algorithm do?

[ashen cipher]

my docker container is building

[frigid trout]

Python also compiles

[stray field]

Didn't he reuse this one recently but with a changed punchline?

[raven urchin]

time.sleep(600)

Who said so?

[rare gazelle]

instead of banning scammers/spammers/etc
a command that turns the whole server for them into ai generated server
everything continues as normal for them, but its actually ai generated texts trying to mimic us

[stray field]

Instead of "Code's compiling" they said "Github's down"

[inland karma]

my docker has python and rust code... there... 30 min break

[subtle coyote]

Yo what's the app about

[frigid trout]

So you give it a list, then it will sort that list in descending order. It find the largest value of the list then it will remove it and put it into the sorted list then it will look at the +0 index and -1 index of the previous largest value and it will find see which one is the largest and it will continue until it makes the sorted list.

[rare gazelle]

he doesn't know he got banned, might waste his time trying to scam ai generated users

[ashen cipher]

that'll do it

[gray siren]

Bye bye 👋

[inland karma]

oh just work things.... im rewriting an old web app used to count users

but then again, i have multiple django apps in the air at the same time

[subtle coyote]

first rewrite?

[inland karma]

yeah, its very old.. runs on an unsupported php version

[subtle coyote]

Ah that makes sense haha

[subtle coyote]

What does it do tho?

Can't be just basic req response model..

[inland karma]

it counts users on a web page and reports it back to another system

[subtle coyote]

That also written in python? The other system..

[inland karma]

you dont use i in your for loop, what it is used for?

[ocean ridge]

ima write my own vector library in python since i wanna make vectors easy + i want to learn it myself

[subtle coyote]

Do u also have a way of counting most frequent IP's?

[ocean ridge]

does this sound like a good idea?

[subtle coyote]

Also isn't Django like overkill for this x..

[inland karma]

i dont care about ips, only users

[inland karma]

i want something stable. django fits that need

[subtle coyote]

Oooh u mean registered ip's

[inland karma]

no... users

user A visits page B and C, i want to count that user A has visited those two pages

[brittle merlin]

BRO WHAT IS CHICKEN SORT

[subtle coyote]

Smth like fast API won't be stable for this?

[inland karma]

yes, very stable.

[subtle coyote]

Nice

[inland karma]

so its just preference, nothhing more

could have used flask as well

[subtle coyote]

U wrote the FE yourself too?

[inland karma]

or bottle

[inland karma]

fe?

[subtle coyote]

Client side code

[inland karma]

front end?

[subtle coyote]

Mhm

[inland karma]

i have to write a front end as well

but its just for statistics

[subtle coyote]

Oh I thought the project was already written

[inland karma]

so i dont have to write it, i can just write a data product and consume the data in looker or something like that

[inland karma]

nah, not done... work in progress

[subtle coyote]

So I'm guessing when it directs user to a page it sends request for count++ or u using websockets?

Again not talking about caching or anything rn

[craggy trench]

look left to see if bigger worm is there

[hybrid nebula]

I should make a very bad program

stdin/out but multiprocessed and over the web

[inland karma]

well.. thats the thing.. its not self evident what will be the best way, currently it uses a dead pixel method, but i might have to change that to websockets instead. but there are so many other apps connected so i have to be carefull about what to break first

[hybrid nebula]

and stderr for control messages and sending images etc.

[tame vapor]

average webdev project idea

[hybrid nebula]

Whenever you load the webpage, it opens a websocket which spawns a process

[subtle coyote]

How many?

[hybrid nebula]

This Will Not Be A Security Problem Whatsoever

[inland karma]

i dont know... a few houndred i think

[subtle coyote]

Damn

[ashen cipher]

mm worm

[tame vapor]

thats a great idea , what do u think about spinning up a new VM for every user visit ?

[hybrid nebula]

the process thing already exists

[ashen cipher]

genius

[hybrid nebula]

It's called CGI

[subtle coyote]

Do you have a deadline for this?

[hybrid nebula]

I wonder if CGI supports websockets

[inland karma]

normally yes, but not this time. i will be done when its done

[tame vapor]

let me google what CGI is in this context, never heard of it

[hybrid nebula]

Common Gateway Interface

prehistoric web technology

[inland karma]

the php app has been running for 17 years already, it wiill live a few more months

[floral terrace]

A quote I heard:

Some of these can be truly horrific "Cthulu Architecture". A giant, ungodly blob of code at the center, with tentacles spreading in every direction and reaching into everything. Even things that appear neat and clean to the outside are actually dependent on the beast below. New things are quickly customized to "integrate" with the beast, because the beast is the core of the organization, after all.

[subtle coyote]

May I ask what's like the avg payload?

On site..

[inland karma]

its quite large, but the details that connects to countiiing is a 1x1 pixel image beeing loaded or not

[crisp jay]

Until you rewrite it in Rust

[subtle coyote]

Wat

[ashen cipher]

crab

[charred tusk]

not if I get my hands on it

[inland karma]

😄

[charred tusk]

Crabs are not a joke Micheal

Millions of people get itchy every year

[ashen cipher]

yeah thats why i said crab

not crabs

[ocean ridge]

can u take a look at project showcase ubereats thing. some kid made an illegal tool and is showcasing it there. pinged the mods there

[subtle coyote]

That app running on your servers btw? Like your team is maintaining it?
Or you're unfamiliar w it?

[hybrid nebula]

Cancer is just Greek for crab

[half pewter]

there's a fun conversation

[subtle coyote]

I mean idk if php is bad.. or upgrading it to a newer version would be bad...

[crisp jay]

It would be nice if he had reported about it to Uber eats or smth

[ashen cipher]

i dont think its something you could stop

working as intended or whatever

[ocean ridge]

no it just automates the process of account creation to get free promos. but the idea is so dumb. like bro whats the point of making so many accounts when you enter the same address all the time 🥀
Some unsuspecting kid might try it and get into issues yk

[crisp jay]

Could add guard rails

[ashen cipher]

realistically that would just be ratelimits

which i'd expect they'd already did

[ocean ridge]

you are missing the fact that u need to enter the address every time u order food. doesnt take an einstein to figure that out 😭

imagine timmy is at an addresss 'x' and 50 accounts order from the same address all are new, all used the promo code. isnt that a bit sus 🤔

[ashen cipher]

people share addresses

[hybrid nebula]

Lifehack: offer people small amounts of money to accept your package

[crisp jay]

A house of 4 people having 250 accounts with the address in it

[ocean ridge]

the promo code saves u a dollar or smth 💀

[ashen cipher]

how would you determine hte size of the house

might be a company

i love waiting 3 minutes every time i screw up for my dockerfile to build

[ocean ridge]

joe closed it rn. nvm i guess

[inland karma]

it runs in the datacenter on the k8s cluster, nobody is familiar with how it works, thats why a rewrite is needed

[crisp jay]

Is docker that good for containers?

[subtle coyote]

Ooo yrs that makes sense

[crisp jay]

Or podman is better

[ashen cipher]

idk i just like docker compose

[steady rain]

docker is the original and most popular platform for containers, but I think podman has almost complete parity.

[ashen cipher]

all of the apps running on my homeserver cluster (2 rpis) use docker because its nice and neat and everythings self-contained

[crisp jay]

I have docker because of distrobox but you need to use the container as root

[ocean ridge]

you use docker? i just run it straight away with an nginx

[crisp jay]

Which I dont think thats good

[silent fable]

yo hi

my larps

[mellow tusk]

Hi, I am Akhilesh from India I am looking for someone who start programming recently in Python.Looking for someone who started recently and wanted a friend/programming buddy with who I can discuss problems teach each other new programming things develop logic and learn and build projects together. You can DM me if you want to learn and build together

[ashen cipher]

https://docs.docker.com/engine/security/rootless/

[inland karma]

if you make an alias docker=podman almost all commands will work, and most likely the ones that are not working are the small subset you would never use in any case.

[raven urchin]

Hiii, already tried Neovim?

[ocean ridge]

made those changes i talked about earlier in my editor too. thought i'd lyk

[silent fable]

oh yea its cool

lazyvim the goat

[raven urchin]

THAT FAST? DAMN.

[raven urchin]

What have you figured out as of now?

[ocean ridge]

what do u mean fast?

[silent fable]

that keyboard based stuff is way better for me ig

[raven urchin]

Yeah, yeah, but what motions do you know? :)

I know some that will blow your mind

[ocean ridge]

Oh, it took me 2 days 😅

[silent fable]

g and gg w/b , im still kinda new tell me some

[raven urchin]

That's fast af

[raven urchin]

Do you have it open rn?

[topaz oxide]

Any plans for PyCon UK 2026 anywhere that I've missed?

[raven urchin]

Write this:

def hello_world(a, b):
    print(f"Hello {a}")```

I'll show you some insane stuff

[inland karma]

it was canceld a while back

[topaz oxide]

Oh that's a shame, could you link me?

Nvm I've found it !

[silent fable]

oh , no i will soon

[inland karma]

Sadly we've been unable to find a Conference Director, so there won't be a PyCon UK for this year. If you (or someone you know) would be interested in taking on that role for 2027, or if you'd like to know some more about it, please get in touch at [e-mail].

[topaz oxide]

Their website had not been updated but found it on LinkedIn, thanks for the info

[raven urchin]

Come on, come on, I want to show you my favorite motion.

[topaz oxide]

That's a real shame, 2025 was great fun

[inland karma]

yeah, and if i lived in the UK i think i wwould be up for the challenge

[grave vale]

hello everyone i'm new to programming and stuff just made a simple data cleaning project using pandas please check it out and give me reviews on how can i improve it. https://github.com/Rizwanhb/Excel-Data-cleaner

[brisk gazelle]

I clean my data by wiping it.

[frigid trout]

Why does Blender have a python console in it

[ocean ridge]

u can automate things in blender with python 🙃 🙃

[frigid trout]

Okay how

[ocean ridge]

never tried. just know that ti exists

[past shard]

Use distilled water

[pallid garden]

it will be really wiped

[ashen cipher]

deionized water

[ashen cipher]

tried putting my python in a blender, now i have to buy a new one :(

0/10

[pallid garden]

a new blender, right?

the pet python is safe

[ashen cipher]

that too

[ocean ridge]

a 10/10 joke 👏

[ashen cipher]

why tf does puddle take 3 minutes to install

[ocean ridge]

nope.

Rest in pieces python 🕊️

[rare gazelle]

hello

[unreal vigil]

I'm trying Git, and is it enough to just add the .py files I made, or anything else like it suddenly shows about 4000 other files, I guess some are from libraries

[ocean ridge]

did u just add the py files

or did u do git add .

[unreal vigil]

I manually added the py files from my program, but it started showing all kinds of library files

[bronze dragon]

my guess is you forgot to .gitignore something, like a venv

[pastel sluice]

You want to use .gitignore to exclude your environment, for instance

[ocean ridge]

show us some

[steel whale]

!pip typer

[edgy kraken]

typer v0.25.1

Typer, build great CLIs. Easy to code. Based on Python type hints.

Released on <t:1777577536:D>.

[unreal vigil]

class FFIError(Exception):
    __module__ = 'cffi'

class CDefError(Exception):
    __module__ = 'cffi'
    def __str__(self):
        try:
            current_decl = self.args[1]
            filename = current_decl.coord.file
            linenum = current_decl.coord.line
            prefix = '%s:%d: ' % (filename, linenum)
        except (AttributeError, TypeError, IndexError):
            prefix = ''
        return '%s%s' % (prefix, self.args[0])

class VerificationError(Exception):
    """ An error raised when verification fails
    """
    __module__ = 'cffi'

class VerificationMissing(Exception):
    """ An error raised when incomplete structures are passed into
    cdef, but no verification has been done
    """
    __module__ = 'cffi'

class PkgConfigError(Exception):
    """ An error raised for missing modules in pkg-config
    """
    __module__ = 'cffi'

[inner adder]

Oh yeah, I forgot that was another Tiangolo project

[unreal vigil]

well I tried

[steel whale]

typer is just click but typed

[inner adder]

Make sure there's no whitespace after the ```py

Like no extra spaces or anything

[unreal vigil]

does it work if I just ignore that stuff and have the files I made be the main branch?

[golden sparrow]

u lurker

[grave tree]

The .gitignore should help automatically exclude some of the files depending on what they are

If you want to open a help channel and share a screenshot of what you're seeing that would be helpful

[copper marlin]

hey guys i need someone to test my code

[mighty bay]

do I learn Python or C++

[copper marlin]

python is easier

[grave tree]

why someone else?

[copper marlin]

i need linux user

[grave tree]

depends on what you want to do. If it's your first language, I'd recommend Python

[copper marlin]

and im not using a linux im on windows

[grave tree]

You could get WSL on windows to get you access to a linux system to test on. It's useful

[copper marlin]

maybe

[terse mauve]

yo, @inner adder whatsup? I have another cursed thing to show you, wanna see?

[inner adder]

I want to say no but at the same time I want to see it

[terse mauve]

class C:
    a: int
    b: 'L'
    c: bool
    d: 'M'
    e: tuple
    f: 'A'
    g: str
    h: 'O'

L = "print('somebody')"
M = "print('once')"
A = "print('told')"
O = "print('me...')"


for meow in C.__annotations__.values():
    @__import__("functools").singledispatch(lambda: None).register
    def _(_) -> meow: pass

heheh

[inner adder]

https://tenor.com/tCf6rRgLVgQ.gif

Wait is that import decorator in the preamble?

Or did you have to import that separately

Not preamble, built ins

Know what I mean not what I say

[terse mauve]

yeah, it's just inlined.

I could have written it like:

import functools

@functools.singledispatch(...)
def _(_) -> meow:  pass

[inner adder]

I actually hate that less

But that's mainly because I love single dispatch

It's still horrifying though

[terse mauve]

that you can do eval without writing eval?

That's how singledispatch works:/

[inner adder]

wait what

!d functools.singledispatch

[edgy kraken]

functools.singledispatch

@functools.singledispatch```
Transform a function into a [single-dispatch](https://docs.python.org/3/glossary.html#term-single-dispatch) [generic function](https://docs.python.org/3/glossary.html#term-generic-function).

To define a generic function, decorate it with the `@singledispatch` decorator. When defining a function using `@singledispatch`, note that the dispatch happens on the type of the first argument...

[inner adder]

I would assume it's at least a literal_eval

But... no it can't be because it also accepts arbitrary classes

I'm suddenly very uncomfortable

[terse mauve]

hehehe

[terse mauve]

@inner adder have you tried to run it? If I do it here my message would be yeeted to #bot-commands

[shadow verge]

hi im working a game in python as the back end its a authoritative server and in my game (web based) i someone hit over e303 and broke infinity does python have a way around this limitation

[crisp jay]

You could use WSL/VM

[copper marlin]

i still need more than 1person

[terse mauve]

technically it's more related to annotationlib.ForwardRef tbh, but it's easier to show when using functools.singledispatch

[inner adder]

Ah okay

I forgot annotationlib was a thing

Man I really need to look through all the modules again...

I try to do that from time to time so I remember at least what's there

[shadow verge]

u can spin up a vm its not that bad lol but it is sus as coming from someone who asked ppl to click a url for my game, it will come off sus to run random code lol

[copper marlin]

its not a random code its on github

[shadow verge]

reminds me of the time if u got the os version it was safe byt the pre compiled binary had malware

[inner adder]

Yeeeep

Seen plenty of those

"See? Here's the source code! Anyway, install this."

[shadow verge]

I usally dont have binaries for my code

only rarely do i have a exe for my code

[copper marlin]

Here's the source code! Anyway, install this. Spotiled.py

[shadow verge]

I should open source my game's client and server but I dont want it to be stolen

[shadow verge]

I think it was a auto clicker or smth iirc it was c or cpp code

[mighty bay]

Is Ai going to cook the job market in the future?

[shadow verge]

depends

[inner adder]

Not my job

[cyan slate]

I think noooo

[craggy trench]

ai is not going to cook literally so it depends on which job market you're talking about

[shadow verge]

will ai research break thru abd have True ai where it no longer needs our input for new information

[mighty bay]

I think Ai is gonna set the difficulty to get hired to ultra hard

[terse mauve]

https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/23116f998f6789d8c2fbe5ed5b8146854c8c2a4f/Lib/annotationlib.py#L204-L222

somewhere there the magic happened

[mighty bay]

especially in coding related jobs

[shadow verge]

I think ai is still in early stages

[copper marlin]

its spotify visualizer it uses OPENRGB and spotify pkce to get the music image ur listening to and then uses the audio of ur system to do a visualizer with it

[craggy trench]

i mean having the specialty to fix the mistakes that AI does is kind of a pretty high bar for total beginners

[copper marlin]

About
Spotiled is an opensource app that makes ur rgb periperals Glows as a visualizer using ur Spotify music art image color

[mighty bay]

It is, which is even more scary

[inner adder]

Hardware IT guys like me are going to be around for a while longer

Someone needs to be around to jiggle the cable when the AI gets stuck

[mighty bay]

considering how capable Ai is at the moment

[shadow verge]

ai still hasn't fully matured and intill we can find a way to make models smarter wit les new data i think we're gonna hit a limit

[mighty bay]

You are right hah

[inner adder]

"capable"

[mighty bay]

That's what I was considering

[cold kite]

Exactly

[inner adder]

I don't think the answer is going to be in LLMs either

[mighty bay]

like going into networking

[cold kite]

We need Opus 8.9

[inner adder]

This is another stepping stone

[cold kite]

Literally

[mighty bay]

So I'm trying to score high on the computer networking type of stuff

[shadow verge]

but on a real note ai is at a point its running out of high quality data to train on

[mighty bay]

CCNA related you know

[inner adder]

Right

[copper marlin]

guys how do u set ur exe file an icon i use resource hacker

instead of the python image

[shadow verge]

I dont

[inner adder]

I never actually got any of my certs...

I should have at least done my A+ when I had the chance

All my knowledge is far too old now

[mighty bay]

That's in uni, although we are also studying programming

but programming is just too vast and I don't have the drive for it

[inner adder]

Nothing wrong with that. I only program as a hobby

[terse mauve]

the OSI model and TCP/IP model stacks are gonna be relevant for a while

[cold kite]

Same

[inner adder]

Oh sure but for the A+ cert stuff it's different now. Networking is going to be the same

I only got my associates

[mighty bay]

Yea I'm not gonna try to go into the industry, the bar to entry is way too high

[inner adder]

There's a long story there

[inner adder]

You'd be surprised

From the stories some of my friends have told me about even senior devs at their work, most people could out do them

[mighty bay]

but as far as I see I'm gonna have no trouble getting a ccna related job

[inner adder]

Yeah MSPs are going to be around for quite a while

[mighty bay]

most people could out do what?

[terse mauve]

do you have any experience in the job market?

[inner adder]

Out program some of the devs at some places

[mighty bay]

I had a 3 month internship that's about it

[hybrid nebula]

MSPs?

[inner adder]

Managed Service Provider

[terse mauve]

managed service providers

[inner adder]

Like an outside IT firm that takes care of stuff

We have one for our networking and backend stuff

[mighty bay]

Ai out programs devs or who? I can't get you sry

[inner adder]

I mean that a lot of people who think they aren't super great at coding are likely better than some people who think they're fucking amazing

Arrogance breeds ignorance. I don't know if that's an actual quote but I'm saying it

The more you think you know best the more likely you are to ignore new information and new ways of doing things

For better or for worse

[mighty bay]

People who don't work as programmers outperform senior devs?

[inner adder]

Always be willing to learn

[inner adder]

I confused myself with it too. Ignore me

[mighty bay]

I cannot comprehend how the major software and systems were made before Ai

[crisp jay]

Books and research

[inner adder]

And tons of trial and error

[mighty bay]

I enrolled in a CS degree, I do have interest towards some of the stuff but I have no drive to learn coding for sure

[inner adder]

And then publishing those errors

CS is more than just code, though

A lot more

[proud escarp]

that's unfortunate

[mighty bay]

yea I'm leaning towards computer networking

[inner adder]

I would have thought that would be CIS

Computer Information Systems

But I guess they can overlap

I always viewed CIS as practical application and CS as theory

[proud escarp]

recently been enjoying busting out horrendous code, just pumping out features
manually, of course. this is what i enjoy the most

[mighty bay]

being a sys admin interests me

/ Data Center Technician

[proud escarp]

you might be interested in this https://pwn.college/

it's a well made organized platform, the challenges are fun too

i was interested in cybersec and took 2 courses in uni but ngl i dont think it's for me now

[inner adder]

Cybersec is not as glamorous as people think it is

Hope you like writing reports!

[proud escarp]

it's really not

sigh

[tall vector]

depends which bit :P automated anti-abuse is fucking sick

[crisp jay]

Having the knowledge of the Cybersec area without working in it

[floral terrace]

isn't that CS also?

[mighty bay]

Similar case and I'm not like really invested into networking either but I already enrolled in a CS degree and I guess that's what imma do as a job so gotta pick something that does not repulse me too much

[inner adder]

Which is why I work in IT

I prefer to just hit computers until they work

[hybrid nebula]

or just say 'yall geniuses can figure it out.'

[inner adder]

HA

[inner adder]

I wouldn't expect any less from you, my good friend

You're damn smart, so that helps

[hybrid nebula]

wait I know you-

[mighty bay]

red teaming / blue teaming has been overly romanticized by tiktok

[tall vector]

I'm not gonna be too self deprecating so I will admit I'm a pretty good engineer, but honestly as anti-abuse stuff goes it was being in the right place at the right time, and with weirdly specific platform knowledge

[proud escarp]

i mean it's good to upskill yourself but if you feel anxious about not doing it and kinda force yourself to do random employable things you can still end up getting the same job so.. do something you enjoy at least is what i feel

[floral terrace]

what are the differences? Those two words are thrown around interchangeably so often I can't tell anymore

[proud escarp]

omg it's owo

[inner adder]

Information Technology is more about implementation and working with live systems. System administration, network administration, technical support, etc.

[mighty bay]

Enjoy? Well I enjoy working out and sun gazing. That's about it, not really the things employers are looking for

[hybrid nebula]

personal training and sunglass testing

[inner adder]

Not like... directly at the sun, right?

[mighty bay]

I don't wanna be a personal trainer either, I find it repulsive

[proud escarp]

sun gazing... first time hearing about that one

[inner adder]

Because I'm pretty sure you'd start hearing bacon sizzling noises coming from your eyes

[mighty bay]

Nah just walking around

while being exposed to the sun

[mighty bay]

I don't wanna do this type of work, I would only help a friend or sm with training

[hybrid nebula]

Difficult to walk without that happening

[proud escarp]

hope you're using sunscreen

[tall vector]

not necessarily; I live in the UK

[inner adder]

HA

[hybrid nebula]

lol

[mighty bay]

Haven't been using sunscreen for years

[inner adder]

The sun is a myth, there is only haze

[mighty bay]

The key is balance

just don't overexpose your skin to the sun, you gotta feel it when its too much

[hybrid nebula]

steps outside
counts to 10
enough sun for today, time for computer

[tall vector]

This weekend is supposed to be rainy and cloudy... which is an issue because my job currently is packing parachutes for skydiving, which is somewhat reliant on the weather actually being good enough for people to skydive

[mighty bay]

I would end my life before I have to live this way

Ideally I want to spend most of my time out

[hybrid nebula]

ah yes, the only job where you lose customers if you do it poorly

[inner adder]

You lead an exciting life

I wish I had half the energy you do

[tall vector]

I follow the whims of my mind and they lead me to strange fucking places lol

[silver plover]

to be fair, it doesn't take much energy to fall

[mighty bay]

packing parachutes does not take energy what do you mean

[tall vector]

(this is the sort of message someone who hasn't packaged a parachute would send)

[hybrid nebula]

it does, a lot of potential energy

[tall vector]

packing is exhausting

[silver plover]

the plane is doing the hard part.

[inner adder]

The man has been on voice chat while climing a cliff

He has crazy energy

[tall vector]

man those were the days

[hybrid nebula]

well the plane is not falling for you is it

[past shard]

Oh hello

[hybrid nebula]

you have a lot more energy when you're up in the air

[mighty bay]

You should look at the sun directly only in the early hours

[silver plover]

That might be a strange relationship.

[tall vector]

I joined a staff meeting on a 30km cycle once during covid times lol

[past shard]

Wa

[mighty bay]

+8585e+10% energy boost bro

[past shard]

David goggins

[hybrid nebula]

actually m*g*h

[jagged belfry]

sometimes when you're doing things you want to be with people too

blessings of the digital era

[mighty bay]

falling from the sky

xD

[hybrid nebula]

+mv²/2

[crisp jay]

Counts to 300

[hybrid nebula]

well yeah

[inner adder]

Oh for sure. But it's a bit distracting when you suddenly see his point of view and it's a several meter high drop

Distracting and distressing

[tall vector]

(also skydiving is obviously not that physically demanding in the falling part, but if you imagine the sort of brain-tired you get after a day of driving because of concentrating, that happens skydiving but wayyyy more potent)

[mighty bay]

Just eat healthy and hit the gym, u will have energy too

[floral terrace]

Sound like FOMO

[jagged belfry]

?.?

we doin basic human companionship as fomo now?

[mighty bay]

I have infinite energy but no drive to learn coding

[hybrid nebula]

human? on the internet? in 2026?

[wise imp]

there's a movie called "Up in the Air", it has a lot of flying in it

[crisp jay]

Do a binding to have zero energy but infinite coding skills

[mighty bay]

I tried

[floral terrace]

depends on the level

[rare gazelle]

hello

[mighty bay]

failed

[hybrid nebula]

adhd

[cerulean ravine]

you had some impulse to try to learn coding: what was it?

[hybrid nebula]

there's another one called- no I'm not gonna say it you can just look at the channel name

[floral terrace]

if you feel the urge to constantly check your phone while doing something unrelated, I'll say FOMO

[grim hatch]

Good morning Pythoners

[tall vector]

Anyway I'm going out to hunt an old aqueduct that I found on 1940s maps but which is largely gone now :) best career advice I can give (which is a low bar) is fuck around and find fun stuff, then do your best to make the fun stuff work for you
cya

[mighty bay]

I went to a psychiatrist, she does not think I have it. I even specifically asked if I might have it

[grim hatch]

Pavlolv dog

[hybrid nebula]

I was joking (unless I had been right)

[mighty bay]

I was prescribed some anti depressants that did not do anything but make me tired so I threw them away and never went to a psychiatrist again

[wise imp]

oh my, just got to experience a true "restore from backup" moment after having accidentally git cleaned some files, thankfully I had configured a full user directory backup (to google drive, via deja dup or whatever) a long time ago and this is the first time I'm reaping the fruits

well, I may have spoken too soon because the restore is taking forever and doesn't appear to be making any progress, but anyway

remember to back you Python files up guys

[hybrid nebula]

this reminds me of the time I wrote a program to convert a python AST into a S-expression, and ran it on itself.
then I failed a rm command and the funniest thing possible happened

[grim hatch]

My python folder has definitely seen better days

[wise imp]

what a fun little tidbit:

S-expression (or symbolic expression, abbreviated as sexpr or sexp)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-expression

[silver plover]

this is a case where something should never have been abbreviated.

"symexp" would've been nicer, I guess.

[past shard]

Remember to back up ur pokemon save file 😢

[scenic swallow]

Is python hard?

[grim hatch]

Nope

[past shard]

Mine had 600

[grim hatch]

That's the short anwser

[past shard]

Depends

Nothing is easy if it is valuable

[scenic swallow]

How much u guys will scale python out of 10 in hardness

[grim hatch]

Compared to other programming languages

I'd give it a 4

[scenic swallow]

Oow

[past shard]

Diificulty is subjective

[wise imp]

Pythons are pretty soft, though their skin is a bit on the tough side

[haughty crane]

where do i start learning networking?

[past shard]

Being either intimidated or free because someone said python is [x] is not good

[scenic swallow]

I am asking the hardness when u guys start learning

[past shard]

remember that one guy who dealt with ptyhons irl ?

He died twice

[scenic swallow]

Lol

[spiral minnow]

frnd me in dc

[scenic swallow]

Java?

[grim hatch]

Java is a 7

[wise imp]

yk, they say that a person dies twice, first when they die and second time when their name is said for the last time

[past shard]

That's chopper's someone right

Like from One piece I don't remember

Dr. sum

[scenic swallow]

That hard?

[wise imp]

it sure doesn't originate from One PIece

[hybrid nebula]

if a person's diary is in a library but never opened, are they truly dead?

[past shard]

It sure is the reason I know it 🤔

[hybrid nebula]

out of?

[past shard]

Schrodinger's guy

[past shard]

x

Not 10 but x

[hybrid nebula]

Java is definitely 1 language

[past shard]

Good discussion

[wise imp]

https://xkcd.com/2861/

[past shard]

Java is pretty hard

[wise imp]

I wouldn't say that

I would say that I hate Java though

[past shard]

No the value of x was 4.1083

And the guy rated it 7

[wise imp]

dammit, I thought you may have meant that

[wise imp]

why are you asking though?

[scenic swallow]

Getting the opinion of users

[hybrid nebula]

what? no

Java is very nice to the programmer

[wise imp]

if you've never been exposed to text programming languages, it might be harder than if you already have experience in say some other language, like obviously it's pretty subjective
I'm more interested in what you plan on doing with that information though

[past shard]

There is 10% chance I am seriously saying smthng and that is either to a beginner or to Eivl

[wise imp]

you serious?

[past shard]

Brings me to a thought, what would ur way for another language be if u already know some python

[merry lintel]

hi

[elfin urchin]

Hi guys this maybe weird but I'm looking for internships

[merry lintel]

how to print in python?

[elfin urchin]

print(python)

[wise imp]

the typical approach would be to use the print function

[merry lintel]

i get error, python not found

[merry lintel]

how to use print function?

[ocean ridge]

print("hi")

[elfin urchin]

must be the water

[ocean ridge]

print("Hello")

[wise imp]

what exactly is the error? can you paste the entire error message?

[ocean ridge]

stop trolling beginners who look for geuine help

[ocean ridge]

some guy told him to do print(python) above and he got an error python not found

[elfin urchin]

I'm confused as well I wasn't trolling

[merry lintel]

i lowk feel bad now..

dw, ik how to print 🙂

print("67")

[past shard]

!learn

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[ocean ridge]

print("<some text here>"). you told him to do print(python). If python was defined already, then it would work

python = 'lvl 100 python'
print(python)

then it would print correctly

[past shard]

Some good resources for starting out

[elfin urchin]

True

[wise imp]

(well, that's not the error you'd get for that line, you'd get a NameError saying python is not defined, "not found" wording is more likely to come from them doing python file.py or some such and python not being on PATH)

[elfin urchin]

Let's not dig deep

[past shard]

@merry lintel use these if u r js starting out

[ocean ridge]

nvm then i thought he tried to print an undefined variable

[grim hatch]

10

[elfin urchin]

How to print your current python version

[hybrid nebula]

Java is definitely not 7/10

[elfin urchin]

Anyone ?

[hybrid nebula]

Windows or Linux?

[elfin urchin]

Windows

[hybrid nebula]

py --version

[wise imp]

that may have been what they were doing, but "not found" wording in a typical case would suggest not that the code ran and failed, but the code didn't even get to run, because python was not found, as in the program/executable (and it just so happens that the undefined name was also python, but that would have then thrown a slightly differently worded error if it ran)

[hybrid nebula]

in a terminal

[elfin urchin]

No no

In editor

don't use terminal

[wise imp]

why not?

[elfin urchin]

That's what I wanna ask ?

[wise imp]

I suppose a pretty reliable way to get the actual version your IDE is executing your file with would be to do this in Python then:

import sys
print(sys.version)

maybe that's what you meant anyway

[ocean ridge]

yeah ig et ur point

[covert forum]

Hi

[minor stream]

Hi

[willow dragon]

hi

[velvet trout]

[ocean ridge]

[surreal knoll]

[steady rain]

So, python

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**What's your favourite aspect of Python development? (Backend, frontend, game dev, machine learning, ai, etc.)**

Suggest more topics here!

[steady rain]

I use it for AI, but the programs I enjoy writing the most are general automations

[ocean ridge]

maths + physics

[floral terrace]

not having to think much about syntax

...and the chat is dead again

[sand hornet]

Generally feels the most rewarding but ymmv I guess

[cerulean ravine]

i like that i can use the same language for work, for high-use open source projects, and for personal math-art projects.

[inner adder]

I like that it makes it easy to screw around with my various ideas

And there's always something interesting to learn about it or a new library to look into

[floral terrace]

so umm, what happen if I declare the same name for class-level and instance-level attributes in a class

[cerulean ravine]

for example:

[cerulean ravine]

it could get confusing. the class will have one, and each instance will have the other one

[gaunt badge]

The instance variable will take precedence

This is sometimes used, e.g. with functools.cached_property

[cerulean ravine]

tell us more about why you want both

[floral terrace]

thanks, I want a confirm on this

[ocean ridge]

im making a vector calc lib in python and its so fun :)

[fossil steeple]

anyone wanna join a team of ppl tryna make an ai

[ocean ridge]

using python to do smth in maths always feels fun

[floral terrace]

well, there was a question about Django Class-based view regarding this ... indirectly. And it kinda make me question my understanding about Python class 🥲

[rotund steppe]

is anyone into High-frequency trading (HFT)

[charred tusk]

Woah wait what
Updates mypy from 1.20.2 to 2.0.0
What's Dependabot trying to tell me here

[cerulean ravine]

is it clear now?

[floral terrace]

yes, thank you kind sir

[cerulean ravine]

mypy just released 2.0.0 yesterday

[charred tusk]

Lol, mypy heard you and took that personally
Literally 17 hours later -- mypy 2.0 released with

Mypy now supports experimental parallel and incremental type checking.

[charred tusk]

I was being dramatic about how big the breaking changes must be to get mypy to make a major version bump

unfortunately, past me was all responsible, so I don't get to play with it until next week

[tool.uv]
exclude-newer = "P7D"

[cerulean ravine]

i think i set mine to 10!

[charred tusk]

Why more than a week?

[cerulean ravine]

extra caution

[charred tusk]

Fair

It's all arbitary anyways

[cerulean ravine]

yes. but coverage is in lots of places

[inner adder]

Oh dude that's awesome looking!

[robust ledge]

Hi. Caught this out of the corner of my eye. Does this prevent upgrades if the version is younger than 7 days?

[charred tusk]

Yes
https://blog.yossarian.net/2025/11/21/We-should-all-be-using-dependency-cooldowns

[robust ledge]

Very nice. I hadn't gone looking for it but this is what I needed to find.

[robust ledge]

.bm

[ocean ridge]

how did u make it though

[charred tusk]

Heads up, uv has some quirks where if you accidently ask for a too new verison, the error messges say the version "doesn't exist" because it boots all the too new versions and then looks into an empty list

[brittle merlin]

i want to learn this

[robust ledge]

I would expect that, actually.

I've applied a filter. The list can be empty.

[charred tusk]

It's technically true
But still catches me off guard every time I see it

[ocean ridge]

master ned Teach us !!

[cerulean ravine]

https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/202208/truchet_images

[robust ledge]

Ah good. UV_EXCLUDE_NEWER. I can just enforce this on the boxes and not change a thing. 0.2.12? This is new new.

wait.. no, we're in 0.11?

[charred tusk]

we are

[robust ledge]

mixed the numbers up in my head.

[charred tusk]

Also heads up
My private artifactory causes errors like these

warning: kerp_sdk-3.0.0.tar.gz is missing an upload date, but user provided: 2026-04-25T01:41:34.891233564Z
warning: kerp_sdk-3.0.0-py3-none-any.whl is missing an upload date, but user provided: 2026-04-25T01:41:34.891233564Z
  × No solution found when resolving dependencies for split (markers:
  │ python_full_version >= '3.14' and platform_machine == 'x86_64' and
  │ sys_platform == 'linux'):
  ╰─▶ Because kerp-sdk==1.1.0 has no publish time and there are no versions of
      kerp-sdk, we can conclude that kerp-sdk>=1.1.0,<2.0.0 cannot be used.
      And because core[redacted] depends on kerp-sdk>=1.1.0,<2.0.0
      and your workspace requires core[redacted], we can conclude
      that your workspace's requirements are unsatisfiable.
Error: Process completed with exit code 1.

Not sure if yours will do the same

[amber comet]

guys help i cant understand whats a return statement

[brittle merlin]

this reminds me of golden ratio wow

[charred tusk]

!return-gif

[edgy kraken]

Print and return

Here's a handy animation demonstrating how print and return differ in behavior.

See also: /tag return

[amber comet]

ik what a function does but wth is a return

[gaunt badge]

It stops the function and sets the value of the function call

[ocean ridge]

wow didnt know this existed (the gif)

[amber comet]

im.. sorry i understood nothing😭

[grave tree]

your function does some work, how do you let other parts of your program outside of the function access to the result of that work? You return!

[charred tusk]

It's the best GIF I've ever seen

[ocean ridge]

ikr me too

[floral terrace]

oh ye, I remember didn't understand this too. Just code a lot and it will eventually make sense

[raw bramble]

Python calms me down

[amber comet]

so like uhmmmm yeah idk

[ocean ridge]

me too :)

[brittle merlin]

@cerulean ravine so are you taking a rough threshold/ greyscale of an image, decreasing the resolution and resizing the tiles based on brightness values at individual pixels??

[pastel sluice]

!e

def thing():
  return 1

x = thing()
print (x)

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

1

[velvet trout]

mypy 2.0 released? Lets gooo!

[raw bramble]

A function can do something, or get a value. If you return something, you are saying that when that function is called, it will give out that value it returns

def next_number(number):
return number + 1

If I say

print(next_number(3))
That will evaluate and essentially be
print(4)

[amber comet]

so basically basically what i know is that a funcion is this thing you do to save time, like maybe make it print somthing

[brittle merlin]

@cerulean ravine i wanna see what happens when u add grain on top of the image and then apply the Truchet filter

[inner adder]

!e

def ham():
  pork = "I will be returned from the function"
  return pork

print("We're going to call the ham function and get the value it returns")

beef = ham()

print(beef)

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | We're going to call the ham function and get the value it returns
002 | I will be returned from the function

[pastel sluice]

it's code you re-use throughout a program.

[raw bramble]

I can also say

new_num = next_number(7)

print(new_num)

This is me assigning that value to the variable, so it’s saying that new_num = 8

[amber comet]

yeah yeah a reusable block of code

well uhm what were parameters again?

[raw bramble]

Functions are often used in place of repeated lines of code, and for abstracting, where you don’t need to worry about how something works as long as it works

[cerulean ravine]

the grain could help with the bad artifacts, it's true

[raw bramble]

parameters are the things that go inside of the brackets when making a function

[inner adder]

def function(parameter):

[pastel sluice]

that block runs in isolation from the rest of the code.
parameters are what you give it to use.
return is what it gives back.

[amber comet]

yeah ik but what do they do

[inner adder]

When you call a function like ham(), you give it arguments. Those arguments are placed in the parameters of the function

[amber comet]

so return is like a print in some way?

[brittle merlin]

damn i need to learn PIL

[grave tree]

print displays it to you/the user
return lets you use it in other parts of your program

[raw bramble]

like

def next_num(input_num):

input_num is a parameter, it’s a variable that you give a value to by calling that function with an argument

so

next_num(3)
3 is the argument, so input_num = 3

[inner adder]

It's more like buying something from the store. You leave with what you purchased and can use it elsewhere

[velvet trout]

Parameters are names on a function definition which gets arguments bound to

Arguments are the values you pass to the function when calling.

[cerulean ravine]

i'm not sure this is quite right, but I can talk about it in a little bit

[brittle merlin]

its fine ill explore it later

[amber comet]

ok whats an argument now

[raw bramble]

Print doesn’t let you use the code again, but return does :P it’s sorta similar and I get what you mean but return is much more valuable than print

[amber comet]

so yeah a print for functions, correct?

[inner adder]

def function(parameter):
  return value

pork = function(argument)

[grave tree]

print vs return depends on what you want to do. A function can use both

[amber comet]

in some way

[velvet trout]

Those are the values you pass to a function when you call

def add(a, b): return a + b
add(2, 3)

2 and 3 are arguments passed to function add

[raw bramble]

Basically just parameters but when you call a function instead of when you define them, people get mixed up over the names all the time but don’t worry abt it too much

[raw bramble]

Yeah, where print() gives data out to the user where they can see, return gives data out to the code for it to use

[grave tree]

Yeah, at this stage I wouldn't worry about the "argument" vs "parameter". Just focus on understanding return

[inner adder]

The terminology can be picked up as you go along

[velvet trout]

[raw bramble]

Maybe this is one you can leave, argameters/parguments are really besicslly the same in the end

[inner adder]

More or less

[velvet trout]

parameters are like variables waiting for a value to get, and that value is given when you call the function and we call that value as argument 😋

[inner adder]

"Arguments are thrown, parameters catch" is how I think about it

[amber comet]

im watching a vid rn trying to understand it

[raw bramble]

I think the more we talk about the two the more we’ll confuse people

[velvet trout]

Hol' up chat, Lambda is cooking. Let him cook.

[inner adder]

@shrewd pine I think of things weirdly

[charred tusk]

we noticed

Hi Hem
How goes

[inner adder]

rood

[robust ledge]

makes sense to me.

[velvet trout]

I don't see any confusion yet, seems like we all agree on the same definition

[inner adder]

It goes

[charred tusk]

amen

[raw bramble]

I like your allegories, they’re a really interesting way to see programming

[grave tree]

The original person learning is trying to understand return. Introducing "parameters" vs "arguments" is not really helpful at this stage.

[velvet trout]

I see

[raw bramble]

I just mean that the 2 terms are basically useless right now when learning how return works

[charred tusk]

And it's just pedantry anyways

[inner adder]

I find a lot of times people might need different ways of things being explained. Like my example of a bank for async and threading and what not

[velvet trout]

real

[raw bramble]

But yeah, return ‘prints’ things to your code, where your code can read it and use it

[velvet trout]

wait.... Another case where a beginner is linking print with return?

interesting

[raw bramble]

It’s very common, and I think it’s really understandable

[velvet trout]

I see

[grave tree]

It is very common. Common enough we have a whole gif for it and a tag

[raw bramble]

printing is the first thing you do in programming, and it is similar in a sense

[velvet trout]

Lmao

[charred tusk]

Did you not see the GIF?

[inner adder]

Oh derp, I just realized I don't have images auto load so I couldn't see the gif

[charred tusk]

rood
It was a gift!

[amber comet]

i think I THINK i understand it now

[gleaming knoll]

its similar in the sense that both are forms of output, but otherwise different
i assume you know what print does, but about return:
you use a function by calling it, right? so in your program source code, when you use a function, there is a "call expression" that looks like function(arguments)
and the thing about expressions is they evaluate to a value, like how 2 + 3 evaluates to 5
return is how you define what the function call will evaluate to, if you have def function(parameter): return something, when you do function(argument),
the expression something is evaluated to some value, lets call it value, and thats what value the call expression function(argument) will evaluate to (and, obviously, once an expression evaluates, its done, so when a given function call hits return - thats the end for this function)

[amber comet]

though frankly seeing more examples would make me understand it better

[raw bramble]

Let’s hear it :P

[floral terrace]

wall of text is a bit much for a beginner, don't you think?

[inner adder]

!e

def add_two(number):
  return 2 + number

ham = 3
pork = add_two(ham)
print(pork)

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

5

[raw bramble]

def greater_than_five(input_num):
if input_num > 5 # if variable greater than 5
return True
else:
return False

[gleaming knoll]

books have much more text yet people still recommend them

i dont want to assume that beginners cant read more than 2 sentences
both because its not true and because that would mean humanity is doomed and i'd rather delulu myself

[inner adder]

@amber comet I can pare down my example further if you need me to

[raw bramble]

What do you think you will get if you do

my_var = greater_than_five(6)

print(my_var)
?

[floral terrace]

you will be surprised

[amber comet]

so basically like i think when you def a function say,

def add(x, y)

z = x+y

return z

print(z)

or smth like htat

[raw bramble]

Yeah! That’s totally right :D

[inner adder]

Sort of. You still need something to catch what is returned from the function

[amber comet]

?

[grave tree]

an important thing about functions, return makes the function end. If you hit a return, your function will exit

[inner adder]

Like in my example, I have pork = add_two(ham). I need pork there so that I catch the value that the function returns

That is what lets me use it

[raw bramble]

You’re using z as a variable, but z only exists inside that function

[inner adder]

Otherwise that returned value just disappears

[amber comet]

uh suree

[raw bramble]

Your function is great, the only problem is the end

[amber comet]

i thought so

[raw bramble]

You’ve technically not said what z is, since you never defined a variable outside the function

[amber comet]

it shouldve been print(add(number 1, number 2))

[raw bramble]

if you said

my_var = add(2,3)

print(my_var)

It would work

[raw bramble]

That would work too :D

[amber comet]

well atleast i got some basic understanding

thnks guys

[raw bramble]

I think you’ve picked it up pretty fast. The best thing you can do is play about with what you’ve learned and practice it

[amber comet]

im originally learing ai in python i just wanted to go back to functions cause i didnt quite understand them

[inner adder]

def store(order):
  return order

waks = store("ham")

@amber comet Another way I can explain it is that someone has to be there to receive it. Like if you go to the store and order something, someone has to be there to receive it. If you just did

store("ham")

No one would be there to pick up the ham

[charred tusk]

Oh no! But the ham would get cold!!

[amber comet]

yeah

[raw bramble]

You can try making something like the basic functions of a calculator using return. You can have an add, subtract, multiply and divide function

[inner adder]

Apologies, I explain things weirdly

[charred tusk]

No that was actually really good

[raw bramble]

You really like shops and banks

[inner adder]

It's the perfect analogy for it

[velvet trout]

Ofcourse i have seen it

!print

Or !gif or whatever it had moving values in animation

[gleaming knoll]

ok so another point is
like, you already used functions other than print, right? probally input?
and when you used input you were able to do like, something = input(), right?
but how does the string that the user inputted end up "in" the variable something? if the definition of input was to print the string it read', that wouldnt work. the user input would just be repeated in the terminal, but not end up in the variable something. instead, it returns it
same thing with sum([1, 2, 3]) returning 6 rather than printing it. thats how x = sum([1, 2, 3]) is able to set x to 6 rather than implicitly print 6, and that makes you able to actually use the value later in the code

[charred tusk]

!print-return

[velvet trout]

Who needs gif when lambda is already cooking

[charred tusk]

Lambda is scary

GIF is safe

[velvet trout]

[inner adder]

Lambda is smart. I treasure him

[gleaming knoll]

scary would be if i started talking about how function calls work on the interpreter level, with the returning address being popped from the call stack and the return value being put on the temporary value stack
oops i just did it
sorry

[floral terrace]

me too, have an irrational fear of a Greek letter

[inner adder]

HA

[velvet trout]

☠️😭

[inner adder]

I can't think about lambda without thinking about Half-Life

[frosty oriole]

never take physics

[harsh swallow]

Or maths

[gleaming knoll]

robin have you already watched daredevil born again season 2

[frosty oriole]

yeah

[gaunt badge]

or Greek

[raw bramble]

Is it good

[raw bramble]

Or Cybersec :(

[frosty oriole]

imo physics tends to use more greek letters

[inner adder]

It's all Greek to me

[raw bramble]

I’ve not seen any Greek yet, but it’s all Greek to me

[gleaming knoll]

i like charlie cox's daredevil, so im watching it. only started season 2 though
sad that punisher isnt in it, he was cool too

[raw bramble]

🤬 you stole my joke

[floral terrace]

oh ye, the Greek discovered it. Damn...

[harsh swallow]

But pi is almost everywhere. And at some point you get capital sigma and capital pi for sum and multiplication

[gaunt badge]

Have you seen the It's-all-Greek-to-me map?

[charred tusk]

Oh Robin you're awake
Check your pings

Also try waking up before noon

[inner adder]

I can't say that I have

But I have a feeling I'm going to love it

[gaunt badge]

I'll send it in off-topic

[frosty oriole]

wild timing

[inner adder]

Cheers

[raw bramble]

I’ve been looking back on all the marvel products and I just think they’re not that good tbh? I’ve become accustomed to watching ‘okay’ things and treating them as if they’re something better than what they are

[gleaming knoll]

typing challenge make nontrivial codebase typecheck on all of : mypy strict, pyright strict, pyrefly strict
add in ty for extra spiciness

[gleaming knoll]

i havent watched anything else from marvel

[charred tusk]

My 5k lines passes mypy strict and ty

[gleaming knoll]

mad respect

[charred tusk]

Everything I write runs mypy --strict and ty

[gleaming knoll]

i found a bug in zuban yesterday but i didnt understand what it was and didnt report it

[charred tusk]

I found a bug a while back and didn't understand it
I just went to their Discord and said "I should probably tell an adult"

Never did get a response 🙁

[gleaming knoll]

TRUSTED. ADULTS.

[raw bramble]

The best programmers write few lines of code, and even remove more lines than they write. That’s why I’m the best programmer

[gleaming knoll]

git clone linux cd linux sudo rm -rf ./* git push best programmer

[raw bramble]

😎 WE use Arch btw

[gleaming knoll]

who is we? i
fuck.. i use arch

[robust ledge]

sounds like a you issue.

[raw bramble]

I’m actually really worried about my computer?

[gleaming knoll]

you should tell your computer that then
it will be very happy to know that you care about it

[raw bramble]

I reinstalled arch a couple of months ago, and nothing has went wrong?

I’ve not encountered any issues whatsoever?

[summer tide]

that's because you don't use your computer properly

[raw bramble]

It’s really scary

[velvet trout]

[brittle merlin]

any project ideas that would make me good at async programming?

[gleaming knoll]

well, there shouldnt be. arch is not supposed to be broken
if it is then something went wrong

[cerulean ravine]

web scraper across domains

[tired dust]

Can python get you rich?

[charred tusk]

JOIN US

[summer tide]

anything can

[raw bramble]

I know that I’m not using arch the way the gods intended though, and I didn’t configure any of my stuff to have Hyprland work properly with Nvidia, but there’s been nothing wrong at all?

[gleaming knoll]

you can get a programming job where writing python is one of the things you do, and that can get you monies

[steady rain]

there are high-paying jobs that involve writing python code. but no one will throw money at you just for knowing python.

[summer tide]

or u can start a startup writing python whatever

[raw bramble]

The only thing I can think of is that viewing Steam updates for Terraria is really slow

[velvet trout]

yes

!pip rich

[edgy kraken]

rich v15.0.0

Render rich text, tables, progress bars, syntax highlighting, markdown and more to the terminal

Released on <t:1775982240:D>.

[floral terrace]

it was a trend back then, now it's just an invasive species. Don't try to make a business by selling them tho

[gleaming knoll]

from pip._vendor import rich

[velvet trout]

Richy rich

[brittle merlin]

🤔 thats a good second project but anything tighter/ predictable which involves race conditions, critical sections etc..?

[velvet trout]

_vendor
_

[steady rain]

anyway, don't count your chickens before they hatch.
do you understand the answers you've been given?

[loud sapphire]

Watsup snakes

[velvet trout]

[loud sapphire]

I'm new to python

[velvet trout]

Hi new, I'm old

[loud sapphire]

Sonion🥀

✌

[floral terrace]

then maybe it's not a job for async IG

[gleaming knoll]

the critical sections in async are blocks between await, because, well, its just normal code, running synchronously on a single thread
race conditions in async happen on await when the event loop ends up context switching to a coroutine that you didnt expect to, and it changes some state that your original one depends on
if you have some state that you need to ensure wont randomly get changed by other coroutines on await, you use a lock or something

[velvet trout]

and i still mess up with them 🥀

[floral terrace]

so ... sync?, nvm

[velvet trout]

multiprocessing 😋

IIRC, I used asyncio.Lock when i was writing on a PeerConnection's buffer so two msgs being written asynchronously won't collide and won't make an invalid packet

[gleaming knoll]

you need to understand that wherever you have an await, you're potentially switching to other arbitrary code before resuming

[floral terrace]

wdym collide? Dont they just switch back and forth ?

[velvet trout]

And then i wrote a background task worker (asyncio.Task) which reads the stream and puts received msgs in queue (asyncio.Queue(size=None)) which can be then read by other background workers and broadcast to other listeners for that peer and its message.

[brittle merlin]

await returns a coroutine object, whats that some special kind of object?

[gleaming knoll]

await does not return a coroutine, it takes a coroutine and "runs" it

[brittle merlin]

i feel like i need to understand the whole event loop first

[gleaming knoll]

do you know generators? if you do then you already are mostly there

[velvet trout]

Well, i was having my msg packets being written overlappingly. half content of first msg and another half content of second msg. Had to use asyncio.Lock so only one packet can be written

or maybe my code was stupid than asyncio issue lol

[brittle merlin]

i do know them, they provide memory efficiency bla bla bla.. but not that deeply

[floral terrace]

sound like race condition alr

[main swan]

Memory efficiency is a result of generators, but not really how they work.

[velvet trout]

Real

[gleaming knoll]

well, the main point is that each section before yield is a discrete step of the function, and it is paused between these steps
same thing with await in async

[floral terrace]

do async lists and generators do anything?

[gleaming knoll]

async list does not make sense since a list is an eager structure, all the values are already there in a list
async generators exist

[floral terrace]

that's why I asked async list is a perfectly valid sybtax btw

[brittle merlin]

ohh so generators are kind of like special functions that save their state?

and same is true for async functions, but instead of waiting for next() they just exectue?

[steady rain]

If you do a list comp with "async for", it means python can context switch each time it produces a new value from the iterable

[main swan]

@gleaming knoll did I tell you about that time I wrote an async factorial function?

[gleaming knoll]

the execution of a generator is driven by iterating over it, each iteration going up to the next yield
the execution of a coroutine is driven by an event loop, each step going up to the next await, and when that await happens - it can switch to other coroutines until this one is ready, they dont "just execute"

[inner adder]

Wait what why

[brittle merlin]

ok yeah not just execute but all the event loop stuff like queueing anther process when one goes into io...

[floral terrace]

oh yeah my misteak, async for loop, but also I don't think I understand what you mean and even if I do, what are the benefits. iirc, async for loop is just kinda ... sync

[main swan]

Ok! So here me out: I had users submit a (potentially very large number) that my webserver calculates the factorial of. The thing is, factorial would be slow and essentially DDOS the site if too many people tried the factorial. So I made it async and sleep a bit after each multiplication to keep things running smoothly.

[steady rain]

it would be like this

while True:
    try:
        x = await anext(iterable)
    except StopAsyncIteration:
        break
    # for loop body code goes here

[inner adder]

That's... Okay that's actually pretty smart

[gleaming knoll]

which means that each time you "pull" a value, until its actually ready (e.g. if the production of this value depends on a network request), you could have other stuff running

[main swan]

Here's the code to illustrate

[edgy kraken]

app/routers/problems/brocard.py line 8

async def factorial(n):```

[main swan]

I was happy I figured it out! Gives me a fun story to tell, because no one thinks that it makes any sense.

[inner adder]

It's unorthodox for sure

But I like it

[main swan]

I live for those funny wtf but smart moments lol.

[brittle merlin]

each step going up to the next await i didnt get this

[floral terrace]

oh ye, make sense, still, is it worth it? context swapping like crazy sounds unnecessary and just create a bunch of overheads

[inner adder]

I usually have the former but not the latter

[gleaming knoll]

its worth it when the waiting before producing a value is significant, like a network request

[brittle merlin]

u can add loaders

[gleaming knoll]

if you understood generators running in discrete yield steps, whats the problem with coroutines running in await steps?

[floral terrace]

That I understand, it's asyncio in general. I'm talking about async loop specifically

[brittle merlin]

i cant think of a way to use them tbh. likes its not "hitting" me, boom

[willow dragon]

i d start python yesterday anyone can give me some help

[main swan]

me too. but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[gleaming knoll]

the context switching of the async event loop is not much different from context switching from the loop code to the generator code when iterating over a generator
and you dont see people saying "wow the overhead is so insane that my performance tanked from iterating over a generator", its just replacing the call frame: setting the return address and locals
like yeah iterating over a generator will be slightly constant-time (per iteration) slower than iterating over a list but its not significant compared to other things applications do