python-discussion

[velvet trout]

I think one of the core devs has a repo for that

[spice hill]

I know

class Foo:
    def __eq__(self, other: object) -> bool:
        return NotImplemented

def f(x: object) -> None:
    eq = Foo().__eq__(x)  # eq inferred as `bool`
    print(eq)
``` type checkers are not good at consistently understanding special cases

[ocean ridge]

i too was flabbergasted when learning this

i had never thought i needed smth like this but yeah its useful

[hybrid nebula]

alternative wording: Python is special case hell

Not to use, that's just fine, but to comprehensively check

[spice hill]

This special case is completely self-inflicted by the type system. A non-special-cased version would be simpler to make correct: ```py
class Foo:
def eq(self, other: object) -> bool | NotImplemented:
return NotImplemented

[gaunt badge]

Still special-cased :P (in the same way None is)

[hybrid nebula]

All special cases have to be inflicted by some sub-system

[echo void]

Just finished bible study. Thx 4 not spamming me! Can I download our python logo for my wa grp pls?

[spice hill]

There would need to be some extra logic when computing the type of a == b to strip off NotImplemented, yes

[gaunt badge]

That too, I was referring to NotImplemented vs "NotImplementedType"

[hybrid nebula]

The real python logo is on the Python homepage.
The logo the server uses is a gif btw

[spice hill]

Oh, that's actually wrong. You have to use types.NotImplementedType to signify that

[echo void]

thx, can i use that

[hybrid nebula]

copyright only really matters when you make money

[echo void]

😆 is that a [Ny]?

btw, al says na-yee

[toxic elk]

Sorry

[steady rain]

I didn't even delete it yet. but you're right, that was off-topic and not appropriate.

[hybrid nebula]

a what?

[echo void]

[nyae] no, yes, abandon, edit

jkjk

[toxic elk]

Chill its not that inappropriate

[tall vector]

yes it was lol

[steady rain]

I'm chill as fuck, actually

[hybrid nebula]

I will not tell you to use intellectual property you do not own.
All I'm saying that (if done without malicious intent and without causing damage to the owner) you should be fine

[hybrid nebula]

hypothermia

[steady rain]

but I'm not like, banning you or something. I'm just telling you.

[drifting ruin]

hi

[echo void]

then i think i'll use copilot instead

[ocean ridge]

liquid n2 is no match for the almighty stel

bro is single handedly combating global warming 🙏

[velvet trout]

Real

Mods are goated in this server

[velvet trout]

What does that country flag mean

Isn't that australia

[velvet thorn]

I'm still new to Python, I have a question. I'm messing around with my IDE to learn a bit about Python outside of the course I'm taking. I just downloaded numpy and pandas. Do you guys and girls learn about tools like these by reading documentation and using them? It seems far more complicated than what I'm doing now and documentation doesn't ever seem clear enough.

[ocean ridge]

i admit i occasionally rely on ai to summarize the documentation and give me the specific things i request

[peak relic]

I go through the tutorial first via their documentation if they have any. And then, I experiment the library by going through its API references in the doc

[echo void]

[ocean ridge]

then i do some experimentation

[velvet trout]

At fresh, Tutorials (if exists) > reading every single doc page

[velvet trout]

IMO

[velvet thorn]

Okay, thanks. I know courses won't exist anymore at some point so I'm trying to familiarize myself with these concepts in the typical ways. Just need to find out how. Thanks again everyone

[ocean ridge]

you can just ask here if ur unfamiliar with certain things

we can also help u out

[velvet thorn]

Yes, there's that too. That's why I'm loving this community so far. You guys are great!

[hybrid nebula]

Iceland

[velvet trout]

Oohh

[hybrid nebula]

For what?

Just grab the official python logo

[ocean ridge]

yeah thats right. iceland is named after this guy

[velvet trout]

Does Copilot own the IPR of code it gives?

I actually haven't used it, found it making PRs once

[hybrid nebula]

https://www.python.org/community/logos/

[echo void]

😆

[hybrid nebula]

in the US at least, AFAIK, 'AI-generated' stuff cannot be copyrighted or patented

trademarks, idk?

[echo void]

what is afaik? i only knows afk!

[hybrid nebula]

and I don't know if it can infringe on copyrights

as far as I know

[ocean ridge]

as far as i know

[echo void]

oh, ok

thx guys

[lost lagoon]

Copyrights would fall on hands of AI code....

[velvet trout]

AI needs its own rights xD

[echo void]

lemme cook supper 😋 bye

[ocean ridge]

anthropic getting real rich if copyright is allowed for ai generated code 💀

[lost lagoon]

lol

[velvet trout]

Fr

[ocean ridge]

literally 99% of vibe coders relying on claude

[lost lagoon]

Anthropic CEO: build Linux from scratch on c, wait what is the fastest language.??? Rust it is then

[harsh anchor]

[velvet trout]

🦀

[hybrid nebula]

wario ❤️

[ocean ridge]

anthropic ceo : engineers are cooked in the future.
a few hours later
We have opened a job listing for 500 engineers~

[echo void]

😈

[velvet trout]

Whose bite will be more painful? Snake or Crab

[short flame]

😌

[echo void]

both

[hybrid nebula]

snake 100%

[ocean ridge]

bullet ant

[echo void]

haha, can't trick me

[lost lagoon]

Real

[hybrid nebula]

crab bite is probably not perceivable

[lost lagoon]

[velvet trout]

100000 hydrogen bombs vs Python

[hybrid nebula]

unless you mean getting pinched by a crab

[short flame]

🔥

[lost lagoon]

only 100k??

[hybrid nebula]

in which case.. probably snake

[velvet trout]

Does it eliminate sensory feedback nerves or what

[velvet trout]

'only' ☠️

[lost lagoon]

Heard about project sundial?

[hybrid nebula]

which part of the crab causes hurt?

[velvet trout]

🦀

The hands

[lost lagoon]

*pinchers

[hybrid nebula]

crabs can bite the same way bees can

[velvet trout]

That watch which looks like a sun with a ring?

[lost lagoon]

Arthropods don't have hands

[velvet trout]

Real

[hybrid nebula]

the borrow checker

[velvet trout]

Ain't pinchers basically subclass of Hands

[lost lagoon]

Yes

[echo void]

🙁

[ocean ridge]

THE LEARNING CURVE 🦀 (FERRIC OXIDE IFYKYK)

[velvet trout]

I guess i can substitute saying hands when pitchers is expected, xD

[lost lagoon]

We dont need borrow checker tho.... Just use Haskel damnit

[crisp jay]

the syntax

[hybrid nebula]

hands are a subset of feet
in this essay I will

[echo void]

why are we talking about crabs in python?

[velvet trout]

Ooh

[lost lagoon]

Cus why not crab taste good

[echo void]

and why are we spamming?

[velvet trout]

☠️

[echo void]

esp. emojis

[lost lagoon]

We are having civilized and intellectual conversation here

[echo void]

😆

[lost lagoon]

It's a Expression

[short flame]

[echo void]

Nice, americans!

[lost lagoon]

hemlock

[echo void]

hi there, how r u guys doing?

[short flame]

Fine how er uu

[echo void]

fine. gotta ensure the pot is not burnt, bye!

[velvet trout]

that's racist

[hybrid nebula]

...

[echo void]

nice slang yall

[velvet trout]

There are non-americans too talking currently

[echo void]

sry

[hybrid nebula]

...

[lost lagoon]

no that's American

[short flame]

........

[velvet trout]

Lmao

[echo void]

didn't mean to

[velvet trout]

No, as a punishment, write a Kernel in C

[lost lagoon]

Haskel you mean?

[hybrid nebula]

we don't need seatbelts we can just lie down on our stomach and pull ourselves forward with our tongue

[lost lagoon]

Python would be fine

[crisp jay]

that would be hard as shit

[ocean ridge]

Brainfuck you mean?

[velvet trout]

Define fine

[hybrid nebula]

subleq32 only good language

[crisp jay]

❯ time ./fast
The sum of the digits from 100! = 648
./fast  0.00s user 0.00s system 82% cpu 0.001 total

its like a father being proud of its son

[velvet trout]

I could've told him SQL but i ain't that bad

[hybrid nebula]

LLVM IR

[pallid garden]

arent kernels mostly written in C...?

[hybrid nebula]

the punishment is the kernel part

[lost lagoon]

It's a violation fee

[ocean ridge]

linus torvalds wrote a damn kernel without vsc!!!

[velvet trout]

I see

[harsh anchor]

windows is C++

[ocean ridge]

he wrote it in a cave with a box of scrap

[pallid garden]

he built it in a cave! with scraps!

[ocean ridge]

beat u to it HAHA

[lost lagoon]

It's not on c#??

[hybrid nebula]

who else using visual C/C++ to compile their kernel... uhh...

[velvet trout]

People used to write programs through punch cards, nothing to be proud of that /jk

[crisp jay]

apple?

[hybrid nebula]

what parts?

[crisp jay]

llvm is goated

[hybrid nebula]

trick question! we can never know for sure

[lost lagoon]

Llvm is fine

[hybrid nebula]

visual C/C++

the microsoft compiler

[crisp jay]

something something windows source code leaks

[velvet trout]

Objective C 😋

[crisp jay]

swift

[velvet trout]

Legends still write in Obj C

[hybrid nebula]

legends will write in erlang

[ocean ridge]

nah legends code in assembly

[lost lagoon]

Isnt objective c is just c++???

Or it's diff?

[bronze dragon]

There's a separate language called Objective-C

[crisp jay]

its different

[pallid garden]

is it 378?

it is 378

.xkcd 378

[verbal wedge]

XKCD comic #378

Real programmers set the universal constants at the start such that the universe evolves to contain the disk with the data they want.

2008/2/1 - #378, 'Real Programmers'

[bronze dragon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C

[lost lagoon]

And there's even different...

[hybrid nebula]

objective C is 'what if we strapped a bad version of smalltalk to C'

[lost lagoon]

False, real programmer use ed

[hybrid nebula]

objective C++ is 'what if we wanted to use objective-C code in C++ or vice versa'

[velvet trout]

Noo

Objective C gave me a headache ahh

[pallid garden]

java is just c++ with a gc

(real)

[dry yacht]

grrrrr
(other angry noises)

[lost lagoon]

-# rage intensifies

[hybrid nebula]

Java is C++ but without all the mistakes of C++

[pallid garden]

no that's rust

[hybrid nebula]

and of course like 50 new mistakes

[lost lagoon]

real

[hybrid nebula]

but not the ones C++ makes

oh and Java is dynamically typed

because of course it is

[dry yacht]

Can you do compile time programming in Java?

[velvet trout]

And who is gonna fix mistakes of Rust?

[lost lagoon]

Haskel

[dry yacht]

huh?

[velvet trout]

[lost lagoon]

Java is functional language

What you guys talking about

[velvet trout]

every language is functional

[lost lagoon]

Until it's not

[dry yacht]

this laptop is still functionable

[velvet trout]

Real

[lost lagoon]

Mine is still functionable also

[hybrid nebula]

Gradle plugins

[floral terrace]

does rust even make mistakes ?

[lost lagoon]

Yes

[floral terrace]

no

[lyric venture]

Hi, @raw onyx
Nice to meet you
I am interested in your idea and I am willing to contribute.

[dry yacht]

I mean, oxidation is a chemical process. Pretty rare that nature screws up

[velvet trout]

XD

[velvet trout]

Yesn't

[lost lagoon]

Rust is not the oxide of iron...

[dry yacht]

never said that

[velvet trout]

Never say never

[pulsar geyser]

Hey everyone, I’m getting started with Python from scratch. I’ve completed a couple of foundational AI courses (Intro to Generative AI and LLMs) and now I’m focused on actually building things.

My goal is to develop logic-heavy, real-world projects (AI + automation), not just tutorials. I’m currently learning core Python basics and want to get strong at debugging and understanding how systems work end-to-end.

I’ll be building small tools and gradually moving toward deployable apps. Would appreciate guidance, feedback, and any tips on avoiding beginner mistakes.

[floral terrace]

get out

[dry yacht]

┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

[hybrid nebula]

Object x = new Integer(4)

if(x instanceof Integer i) { System.out.println("The integer is ", i.intValue()); } else { throw new RuntimeException("not an integer"); }

[floral terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/getout-gif-16327023334064302194

[lost lagoon]

No gif allowed lol

[floral terrace]

welp

[hybrid nebula]

getout-gif-16327023334064302194

[lost lagoon]

Lol

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[hybrid nebula]

AI

do not use it for learning

[lost lagoon]

It's always about the AI ofc

[pulsar geyser]

🤡

[velvet trout]

What is twitter duck doing here

[pulsar geyser]

i mean

no other way to explain my scene dawg

would appreciate help

[fathom beacon]

using AI for learning is fine, if you for example need a different explanation for a simple concept

[pulsar geyser]

oookay

[lost lagoon]

Ask AI 😆

[pulsar geyser]

should learn from youtube?

[floral terrace]

googling, lots of digging around google, then AI

[pulsar geyser]

googling

what

[bronze dragon]

It's too generic to get any answers as-is. Come back when you have specific questions about Python, or a Python project to showcase.
@pulsar geyser

[jade robin]

i kinda like google's AI overview while googling

[crisp jay]

i dislike it tbh

[jade robin]

gets the correct websites faster + you can afford to search dumb-ly now

[hybrid nebula]

it's fine if you're fine with being told misinformation sometimes

[pulsar geyser]

welp, sure

[fathom beacon]

Yeah but don't just copy examples, if u wanna make a password generator for example, instead of googling that, google stuff like functions etc

[floral terrace]

You don't know what is googling?

[lost lagoon]

AI will compleatly hack your thinking

[pulsar geyser]

yeah got it, the frameworks and the basic knowledge of it

[fathom beacon]

Well I use a model that's specifically for coding, but also only for extremely simple concepts, I can see misinformation for google as well.

[pulsar geyser]

i mean i do, but what should i google, like whats this whats that, couldnt ai do that?

[fathom beacon]

Very basic, correct. But googling & reading docs is more important later on, get used to that.

[pulsar geyser]

cool cool

[floral terrace]

It can but if you are new, you won't know if AI hallucinates or not

[lost lagoon]

Don't let AI learn for you ._.

Using search engine is a skill one should master

[pulsar geyser]

yep, ai will say 1+1 is 5 very confidently

[bronze dragon]

Whatever questions you have

couldnt ai do that?
I believe it is extremely important to have your own research skills independent of AI

[pulsar geyser]

got it

[pulsar geyser]

cool got it

[crisp jay]

and reading the docs

[dry yacht]

That's not "dynamically typed" though
That's still statically typed.
I can write the same code in C++ (didn't check if I made a mistake or not):

void f(auto& x) {
    if constexpr (std::is_same_v<std::decay<decltype(x)>, int>) {
        std::println("The integer is {}", x);
    } else {
        throw std::invalid_argument("not an integer");
    }
}

[pulsar geyser]

what docs exactly if i may ask

[fathom beacon]

If you don't know what to google, coming here or asking AI is valid imo as long as it is something very simple that you just don't know how to ask. It can also Phrase & explain things differently, all though I highly recommend to give it context such as the documentation of which you are trying to learn.

[lost lagoon]

And it will say it on the most convincing way that you wouldn't even be able to know if it's saying the facts or hallucinations

[bronze dragon]

Tbh, for new learners the hazard from outsourcing their thinking is way more relevant than hallucinations. At the beginner level, hallucinations just aren't common at all.

[pulsar geyser]

exactly!

[fathom beacon]

Exactly

[pulsar geyser]

ohh

[lost lagoon]

!topic

Aw sob

[pulsar geyser]

so having my own research skills is valid, even if it is to learn anything?

[fathom beacon]

huh

[bronze dragon]

The docs for whatever you're using. The Python docs, if you have a question about some aspect of Python, for example

[fathom beacon]

You literally NEED those skills, learn them.

[crisp jay]

like when you try to write a wrapper around sleep from unistd.h to use in lua, but the docs say that the only function to dynamic link libraries is optional and you need to compile the library with lua but it doesnt explain how you do it

[pulsar geyser]

alrightt

[floral terrace]

learning how to learn is probably the most if not the most important type of learning

[pulsar geyser]

oh, relevant context, so the ai doesnt invent somehting new of its own

[fathom beacon]

This is also very important!

[lost lagoon]

Use AI tools only when you know how to take it's job...

[pulsar geyser]

🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️ 🔥 🔥 Best thing bro ever said so far

[bronze dragon]

Hmmm? How did AI come in to the question of reading docs?

[gleaming knoll]

the java example is dynamically typed in the sense that the value carries the type at runtime - the type could depend e.g. on user input, but your C++ example isnt - the if is constexpr, so its more like a template, it cant depend on runtime values

[crisp jay]

Use AI if you know how to do the task and you are doing it for the 10²¹ time

[lost lagoon]

Real

[pulsar geyser]

context window just slipped into my mind so i thought thats what you meant

[lost lagoon]

²¹ is important

[fathom beacon]

Just steal someone else's code???

[dry yacht]

Okay, sort of fair.
But then I can still write the same code in C++, gimme a sec:

[bronze dragon]

I did not mean anything related to AIs. I'm talking about you, the human, reading docs.

[crisp jay]

there is no steal in foss

[lost lagoon]

It's not stealing if SOMETHING write it from scratch

👀

[pulsar geyser]

oh, okay

[gleaming knoll]

the C++ "equivalent" is RTTI with typeid, but it doesnt exactly lead to the same kind of code

(haskell has Data.Dynamic)

[echo void]

there is! if there is no credit

[quasi shuttle]

not all oss requires credit

[dry yacht]

I was more thinking of std::variant + std::visit

struct Visitor {
    int operator()(int x) { return x; }
    int operator()(double d) { return (int) (d + 3.1415); }
};

...
std::variant<int, double> my_object{4};
std::visit(Visitor{}, my_object);

[crisp jay]

what if AI wrote it from scratch

[echo void]

speaking of which, what is py __author__

[spice hill]

You can also ignore GPL, AGPL, LGPL, MPL etc. requirements

[echo void]

besides the obvious

can it be a list of authors etc?

[echo void]

😆

[spice hill]

(not as in: you are free to ignore them, but doing so can also count as "stealing")

[gleaming knoll]

well, this is not close to the java example at all. the java example is working with an arbitrary object, not a tagged union of a specific set of types

also what is the size of std::variant<int, double>? i hope its 8 and it uses nan tagging

[velvet trout]

Without future annoatations, Are parameters' type annotations on a function evaluated at definition time? On 3.12, or just at return -> ? I don't have the copy of 3.12 currently to test

[gleaming knoll]

before 3.14 without future annotations they are evaluated at definition time yes

[spice hill]

Since 3.14, type annotations are evaluated when you first access the .__annotations__ attribute

[velvet trout]

I see. thanks

[spice hill]

Before 3.14, they are evaluated at definition time, yes

[velvet trout]

Makes sense

[hybrid nebula]

what will they do, sue you? /hj

[gleaming knoll]

nope its 16. it didnt fit the tag in the higher bit nans
i wonder if rust does it

[echo void]

Tip:

__author__```
can be a list or tuple of names too

what does pep 8 says abt dunders? b4 imports?

any blanks surrounding it?

[spice hill]

It can't use nan tagging because nans are valid doubles

all 64-bit patterns are valid for double/f64

[gleaming knoll]

well there is more than 1 nan
so if you normalize all float operations to a single nan you can use the other ones for tags

[dry yacht]

Size is 16.
I also tested it for this:

struct Foo {
    char xs[100];
};

int main()
{
    std::variant<int, double, Foo> x{4};
    std::println("{}", sizeof x);
}
```for which the size is 112

[gleaming knoll]

i guess that doesnt work for when you're reading a volatile double or whatever coming from outside
since it could be anything and not respecting your ABI of normalized nans

[spice hill]

f64::from_bits

[hybrid nebula]

fun fact: (char*)1, (char*)2, are not valid pointers.

except.

[dry yacht]

It depends™

[spice hill]

Of course, you can make your own custom type where passing some special nan would turn it into an int. But it's not safe to do that for a standard language feature

[velvet trout]

Why is ruff's help suggesting @typing.override in this case??? Is it a bug in help?

PLR0913 Too many arguments in function definition (10 > 5)
  --> src/cliargparse/models/mutex_option_group.py:25:9
   |
23 |         self._options.append(option)
24 |
25 |     def option[T](
   |         ^^^^^^
26 |         self,
27 |         long_names: str | Sequence[str] | None = None,
   |
help: Consider adding `@typing.override` if changing the function signature would violate the Liskov Substitution Principle

[hybrid nebula]

lifehack: confuse Python by using NaN as a value in json

[velvet trout]

Why bully my snake

[gleaming knoll]

i would expect the whole 0'th page range to be invalid
so like [0; PAGE_SIZE)

[hybrid nebula]

until.

[gleaming knoll]

what is the full signature of the method in the superclass? and the full signature in the subclass?

[spice hill]

Does the error go away if you apply @typing.override?

[velvet trout]

There's no inheritance in this class lmao

[gleaming knoll]

[velvet trout]

@dataclass(frozen=True)
class MutexOptionGroup:
    command: Command | None = None
    required: bool = False

    _options: list[Option[Any]] = field(default_factory=list[Option[Any]], init=False, repr=False)

    @property
    def options(self) -> tuple[Option[Any], ...]:
        return tuple(self._options)

    def add_option(self, option: Option[Any]) -> None:
        self.command.add_option(option)
        self._options.append(option)

    def option[T](
        self,
        long_names: str | Sequence[str] | None = None,
        short_names: str | Sequence[str] | None = None,
        *,
        long_aliases: str | Sequence[str] | None = None,
        short_aliases: str | Sequence[str] | None = None,
        store_name: str | None = None,
        action: Action[Option[T]] | None = None,
        present: Any | None = None,
        default: Any | None = None,
        type_converter: Callable[[str], T] | None = None,
        choices: Sequence[T] | None = None,
    ) -> Option[T]:
        option = Option[T].create(
            long_names=long_names,
            short_names=short_names,
            long_aliases=long_aliases,
            short_aliases=short_aliases,
            store_name=store_name,
            action=action,
            nargs=0,
            present=present,
            default=default,
            type_converter=type_converter,
            choices=choices,
        )
        self.add_option(option)

        return option

[velvet trout]

I ain't gonna do that even if it does, i am gonna ignore that rule fully or change the min-nargs of func args.

Who even thought of 5 args as bare minimum

But let me try typing.override just to check

[spice hill]

I think this is the reasoning: this diagnostic is not possible to avoid if you are inheriting from someone else's class and it already has too many parameters. So if you mark it as an override, there's no point in ruff complaining about it

[velvet trout]

Seems like it does fixes

I can't see it anymore on error logs

[gloomy locust]

Who study in mit i need to her help

[spice hill]

don't use @typing.override if it's not an override obviously

[velvet trout]

Fr

I am gonna either change min settings or set to ignore it

[gloomy locust]

Please who study cs in mit

I need her help

[steady rain]

what would you ask that person if they were here?

[gloomy locust]

I will ask it about courses are you in mit

[spice hill]

I think in this case, the number of arguments is not a big problem, because you are just passing them through to Option[T].create, and I assume there they're also just passed as attributes to some dataclass.

[steady rain]

I'm not. But it's likely that the information you're looking for can be looked up online. What do you want to know about the courses?

[gloomy locust]

I want an account in order to study courses in mit site

[gloomy locust]

Have you get that

[steady rain]

oh, so you're not talking about actually being in a degree program there

[bronze dragon]

Does OpenCourseWare need an account?

[velvet trout]

Option[T].create validates and creates Option[T] instance (Option is a dataclass)

[bronze dragon]

I used it without one

[gloomy locust]

No but matters such as 6.001Ain programming you need to enter to mit site

[spice hill]

I think 6 arguments in a function that does something interesting can be a cause for concern

[gloomy locust]

I follow the cataloge of mit

[velvet trout]

I don't think so in my case. Its a builder-like function

!paste

[edgy kraken]

Pasting large amounts of code

So that everyone can easily read your code, you can paste it in this website:
https://paste.pythondiscord.com/

After pasting your code, save it by clicking the Paste! button in the bottom left, or by pressing CTRL + S. After doing that, you will be navigated to the new paste's page. Copy the URL and post it here so others can see it.

[spice hill]

yeah, here I'd ignore it

[gloomy locust]

I need to study all matter in cataloge but some matter i do not find

[velvet trout]

https://paste.pythondiscord.com/IJJA

Check line 92

Wow even the paste i gave to nedbat was line 92

Coincidence or nature is trying to tell me something...

Are there cli programs which use numeric-named options? (Example: -1 --123)?

[raven urchin]

[velvet trout]

idk if i should error if the names are digits, i think argparse allows them?

[gloomy locust]

Help please

[bronze dragon]

How do I input a negative number as the argument value then

[raven urchin]

What do you need help with

[velvet trout]

--opt=-223

[bronze dragon]

What if it's a positional arg

[velvet trout]

Ah, missed the opportunity to type 67

[velvet trout]

-- -67

[gloomy locust]

I need mit account

To study mit 6.100A

[raven urchin]

[velvet trout]

-- tells lexer to end interpreting options

[crisp jay]

st might be the best terminal ever

[raven urchin]

st?

[crisp jay]

simple terminal from suckless.org

[velvet trout]

I left no chances of ambiguity in my opinionated cliargparse

[raven urchin]

Ah, I use Kitty.

(the name is cute)

[crisp jay]

worst thing that i ever used

[raven urchin]

Why?

I honestly only know kitty and konsole

[crisp jay]

every time i used it for coding,the buffer(cursor in neovim) was very slow

[velvet trout]

- means option delimiter / option beginning/detected, no matter what, unless end-of-options (--) lexeme is used to stop interpreting option delimiters

[raven urchin]

Huh, that's weird. That doesn't happen to me.

[crisp jay]

bro one kitty instance is almost 200mb wtf

[bronze dragon]

I see
Though, would I have to use -- even if there are no possible options with numbers in it, which -67 could be confused for?

[raven urchin]

whar 😭

That's insane

[velvet trout]

Yes, regardless of knowing spec (what dev/user defined options), its grammar based

[bronze dragon]

Hmmm. I think that's a good choice

[velvet trout]

Even if you don't have options, you gotta use -- to mark end-of-options interpretation

Lexer has no idea of specification, it is available to parser only

[bronze dragon]

I wonder if you handle lone - to indicate stdin?

Existing tools (GNU at least) allow that without having to mark end-of-options IIRC

[crisp jay]

is the --,-.. and the others a specific thing from the shells or the program needs to support these operations?

[velvet trout]

Ohh right

I think i forgot that one

[gleaming knoll]

the program needs to support them
what the shell does is stuff like piping and redirection and environment variable expansion

[velvet trout]

A source substring of just - will raise MissingOptionArgumentsError

[bronze dragon]

The argument list is just passed to the program as an array-of-strings. Actually interpreting them as options or whatever is entirely in the hands of the program.

[velvet trout]

Guess i would check if its == "-", yield it as ArgumentToken ?

wait am i being inconsistent about my own rules

I think i should allow negative numberical values as-is than option interpretation of it? Do other cli arg parsers allow it?

[harsh anchor]

in powershell, if you are using a cmdlet, there is special handling by powershell

[inner adder]

Huh. I didn't know that

[harsh anchor]

well you don't need to write argument parsing in your cmdlets, do you

[velvet trout]

Okay, i decided not to treat negative numbers (-67) as OptionToken, they will be interpreted as ArgumentToken.

Option grammar will be:
{prefix}{alphanumeric}
prefix = - | --
alphanumeric -> like beginning should be with an alphabet, rest can be a mix of alphebets, numbers or dashes, etc. mostly English as i am no aware of other languages and they should work fine as long as python's builtins don't confuses with them.

What do you say chat?

-67foo

is this even sensible to be allowed

[harsh anchor]

it is sensible; many tools use numbers as switches

[velvet trout]

Which ones? Names a few for me to check out

[proud escarp]

im writing an abomination of code... but im enjoying the velocity

[velvet trout]

Should i allow non-ascii option names ?

It is allowed for now (not like i have written code to restrict it)

[floral terrace]

I too, love accumulating technical debts

[proud escarp]

yes this is basically going to be impossible to work on next week, but it is what it is

[gleaming knoll]

simply abandon it then
obvious choice

[toxic elk]

What telling me?

[proud escarp]

of course

if anch.following:
    opposite = getattr(self.rect, OPPOSITES[anch.anchor])
    print(f"anchor={anch.anchor}, opposite={OPPOSITES[anch.anchor]}")
    diagonal = anch.point.distance_to(opposite)
    rad = utils.rad_to(anch.point, V(opposite))
    self.rect = R((0, 0), (diagonal * cos(rad), diagonal * sin(rad)))
    print(self.rect.size)
    setattr(self.rect, OPPOSITES[anch.anchor], opposite)
    anch_changed = True
    anch_val = anch.anchor

lmao

[gleaming knoll]

absolute coding

[proud escarp]

class MiniState:
    handing_anchor = False

little namespace for my global values across the file

[velvet trout]

Put blank lines

[peak egret]

good code

[proud escarp]

truly the peak of clean code

[velvet trout]

Guys i am having a naming crisis

[velvet trout]

Should i call it positional/positional-argument or operand ?

In a command system, how do you conceptually model the non-named inputs attached to a command?
I’m referring to values passed by position (not flags/options), e.g.:
cmd input1 input2 input3

Asking non Python questions in a python server is so real

[viscid torrent]

Who to make a ui with python

[gleaming knoll]

POSIX https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.html calls it operands

[velvet trout]

Claude said to call it as arguments

Though i find it too generic but makes sense in a way

[velvet trout]

I see

Interesting, what argparse calls it?

I can think it goes generic

[gleaming knoll]

positional argument

[real panther]

Did you know there is a native data structure in Python that supports O(1) push, O(1) pop operations like a stack, as well as O(1) element existence check and O(1) element deletion like a set? Try answering this without using an LLM.

[cerulean ravine]

why are you quizzing us?

[gleaming knoll]

by native you mean stdlib?

[velvet trout]

Won't 'positional' encode position than ... semantic?

[real panther]

yes

not collections

[real panther]

You would obviously be able to answer this but I just wanted to start a conversation

[pastel sluice]

if you just want to talk about Python, you can do that without a quiz question

[velvet trout]

Write a cli argument parser if you think that's tuff. 🗣️

[gleaming knoll]

but the elements would have to be unique and hashable, so its not exactly a stack, no?

[real panther]

uhmmmm

but you guys get the context right

[gleaming knoll]

its just a dict
with none values or something like this

[raven urchin]

Guys, my friends need testers for a project. Does anyone want to help? :3

(Need Linux, or at least a virtual machine/WSL)

[velvet trout]

An empty dict?

[gleaming knoll]

no, like, {x:None}

[velvet trout]

Ohh right you said none values

[pastel sluice]

without telling anyone what it is, you won't get anywhere. start there.

[real panther]

there's another data structure with the same capabilities, but not in CPython

[raven urchin]

It's a media writer utility, wraps dd and Ventoy. But the main thingy is that it looks a lot like Rufus, so it's meant to be used by newcomers to Linux (so they have a familiar UI).

Rn we need testers for Wintricks (flashing Windows ISO's)

[gleaming knoll]

d[x] = None    # O(1) push(x)
d.popitem()[0] # O(1) pop(), dict is insertion ordered so it works out
x in d         # O(1) membership
del d[x]       # O(1) deletion

[velvet trout]

Isn't that what i always do

😭 👍

[real panther]

The other data structure is sets, but not CPython sets.

PyPy sets

CPython borrowed the ordered dict idea from PyPy and used it for dicts but forgot to use it for sets

PyPy has both ordered sets and ordered dicts

[velvet trout]

Forgot to use it for sets?

[pastel sluice]

they didn't "forget" to use it for sets; that was a deliberate decision

[velvet trout]

Is it recommended to have it ordered? Are their side effects? Is it efficient or overheady?

[real panther]

Since Sets were always defined as an unordered collection, they decided to let sets be as they are

[pastel sluice]

sets are optimized for a different use case: testing of membership

[stray field]

Ordered set is a treeset

[pastel sluice]

https://stackoverflow.com/a/61467874 good discussion of this here

[gleaming knoll]

depends on how you order it
if by insertion order then you can use the same approach as dicts, then its not a tree, just add an index array
if you order such that all equal sets will have equal order then yes it would likely be a tree

[real panther]

This was something cool I discovered so just wanted to share it with you guys

[velvet trout]

cmd in1 in2

mv src dest

hmm... If we see... Aren't it like: cmd is the operator and in1 & in2 are its operands... Interesting

[stray field]

I always forget about insertion order

[velvet trout]

I wonder if operands are position-restrict or that's context dependent on the operator

Claude says use "actants" as a term for this

Chat, should i?

command.add_actant()

Lmao

[gleaming knoll]

what

[velvet trout]

what do you mean by what

[gleaming knoll]

never heard this term

[cerulean ravine]

"actant" isn't a word I recognize.

[velvet trout]

Oh actually it didn't say to use it, rather it invented 'actant' term as a suggestion:

Actually ranking it gave:

Final ranking (purely logical):
Operands — Best balance of precision and familiarity (8/10)
Actants — Most semantically pure, but obscure (7/10)
Targets — Clear intention, but wrong connotation (6/10)
Arguments — Accurate but too generic (5/10)
Inputs — Safe but vague (5/10)
Everything else — Flawed in multiple ways (≤4/10)

[velvet trout]

Same, my first time seeing

Operands getting more weightage, i guess i will stick to it.

Not sure why i picked operand initially

[lofty jungle]

guys my jump dont work import pygame

pygame.init()
screen = pygame.display.set_mode((1280, 680))
clock = pygame.time.Clock()
running = True
player_x = 600
player_y = 600
velocity = 10

while running:

for event in pygame.event.get():
    if event.type == pygame.QUIT:
        running = False

keys = pygame.key.get_pressed()

if keys[pygame.K_SPACE]:
    player_y += velocity
    pygame.time.wait(4)
    player_y -= velocity

screen.fill("Red")

player_rect = (player_x, player_y, 50, 50)

pygame.draw.rect(screen, (0, 225, 0), player_rect)

pygame.display.flip()

clock.tick(60)  # limits FPS to 60

pygame.quit()

man i meant a code block

[rare gazelle]

!code

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[lofty jungle]

k

!code

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[harsh swallow]

Read it, don't post it again

[lofty jungle]

[harsh swallow]

The command just sends info how to make a code block

You sending it just gives the same info again

[lofty jungle]

alr

[harsh swallow]

Anyways, you're doing +=velocity and then -=velocity - without drawing in between, so the new drawn position is the same as previous

[lofty jungle]

alr alr

[lofty jungle]

alr i got it to work thanks

[true widget]

Hey idk if this belongs in python help its so niche.

what are the best libraries for scripting ? as in doing mouse movements, clicks, typing and such.

I'm relatively new so the easier to grasp the better, although I can manage a little complexity and write helpers.

[lean lantern]

as in you want to track mouse movements?

[true widget]

I wish to make mouse movements

move cursor to (X,Y) and click

[copper marlin]

hey guys i did make an app and i need testers for it its on linux and windows

[lean lantern]

I would try pygame for that

[copper marlin]

whoever wants to help me and his name be tagged in the github please Mention me

Thanks

[golden mortar]

https://pyautogui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html

!pypi pyautogui

[edgy kraken]

PyAutoGUI v0.9.54

PyAutoGUI lets Python control the mouse and keyboard, and other GUI automation tasks. For Windows, macOS, and Linux, on Python 3 and 2.

Released on <t:1684959092:D>.

[copper marlin]

pyautogui for mouse
Keyboard for keyboard

[true widget]

Keyboard is the name?

[copper marlin]

https://pypi.org/project/keyboard/

[golden mortar]

Maybe check if pyautogui is sufficient for your needs first

One dependency is better than two

[true widget]

Right

I think it'l be enough

I only need to send inputs for escape, q and f

[copper marlin]

if only basic input for keyboard pyautogui is enough

[true widget]

Thanks a lot.

[copper marlin]

np ❤️

[modest obsidian]

What's the proper way to create Python bindings for my API written in C?

[soft coral]

I used pybind11

[steel whale]

depends, are you gonna use it in a game? pyautogui has issues with raw input

[plucky fjord]

!ideas

[edgy kraken]

Identity vs. equality

Should I be using is or ==?

To check if two objects are equal, use the equality operator (==).

x = 5
if x == 5:
    print("x equals 5")
if x == 3:
    print("x equals 3")
# Prints 'x equals 5'

To check if two objects are actually the same thing in memory, use the identity comparison operator (is).

>>> list_1 = [1, 2, 3]
>>> list_2 = [1, 2, 3]
>>> if list_1 is [1, 2, 3]:
...    print("list_1 is list_2")
...
>>> reference_to_list_1 = list_1
>>> if list_1 is reference_to_list_1:
...    print("list_1 is reference_to_list_1")
...
list_1 is reference_to_list_1

[bronze dragon]

!projects -- maybe you're looking for this?

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[true widget]

yes, but the game uses the default input, it's not processed

nope youre right

[somber blade]

Yo

im making a business and im currently re-coding the backend to de-spaghettify my code, anyone wanna help me?

-# (be my friend 😭)

[steel whale]

!pip pydirectinput

[edgy kraken]

PyDirectInput v1.0.4

Python mouse and keyboard input automation for Windows using Direct Input.

Released on <t:1612304610:D>.

[true widget]

I found a workaround, but it might become a hastle in the long run

[true widget]

Will check.

[stray field]

Asking for free work? Nah bro.

[stable kraken]

can i train my problem sloving skils through sudoku

[wise imp]

seems unlikely

you might train your sudoku-solving skills through sudoku, you can, of course, describe it as a problem, but that's probably not what you meant

[gloomy locust]

1. Intro to CS

Courses: Harvard CS50 / MIT 6.1000

Book: Think Python

2. Computational Thinking

Courses: MIT 6.100A & 6.100B

Book: Intro to Computation & Programming (Guttag)

Stack: NumPy, Pandas, Jupyter

3. Software Construction

Courses: MIT 6.1010 & 6.1020

Books: Python Crash Course & Fluent Python

Tools: Git, GitHub, LeetCode

This road map in programming correct or no

[harsh anchor]

in some sense yes

[stable kraken]

alr

[plucky fjord]

Yes thank you

!projects

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[wise imp]

as noted, it's just probably not what you expect, it's unlikely to transfer to problem solving skills much outside of sudoku

[stable kraken]

yh i was talking about like writing programs

[wise imp]

no, if you want to improve your problem-solving skills related to writing software, what you want to do is write more software

[stable kraken]

👍

[mighty bay]

How to keep my job when claude exists ( I'm unemployed )

[stray field]

you don't need to do anything to keep your job. (you're unemployed)

[harsh anchor]

it could help improve your debugging skills. asking a question like, "I wonder if x causes y" is very similar to what you do in sudoku

[stable kraken]

it takes me an hour to sole one extreme puzzle

is that good enough?

[harsh anchor]

sure

[acoustic spear]

can anyone help me make a python script where i can show it a picture of a grid with darker lines and it uses the dark lines to build the "house" into my roblox game

[spice hill]

I think the only game left on my phone is unironically sgt-puzzles. Didn't find anything else that's good

(since I cannot pay for games on google play)

[dry pike]

🔥

[mighty bay]

Claude replaces py coders

[spice hill]

Full-screen ads that pop up after you do something are so horrendous. 100x worse that a small ad that just appears somewhere on screen full time

[tame vapor]

make no mistakes

[mighty bay]

python coders are worth messy pants now

[craggy trench]

claude replaces pi amount of coders

[tame vapor]

the 0.14159.......th coder ...................

[craggy trench]

that represents the value of thousands of beginners added up

[mighty bay]

junior develops are worse than ai now

[tame vapor]

u trained any junior developers recently ?

[robust ledge]

hahahahahahahaha

Oh I needed a chuckle.

[mighty bay]

juniors devs are going to the army because of Ai

[robust ledge]

I'll take a junior any day, every day.

[floral terrace]

u ai?

[mighty bay]

no

[robust ledge]

Shame, that would explain the lack of creativeness in the bait.

[mighty bay]

python coders are worth less than pissed pants now

[robust ledge]

If you say so. Anything we can help you with about Python here?

[tame vapor]

your personal experience doesnt show the full picture

[floral terrace]

jesus these bots

[mighty bay]

Imma go eat some cookies and watch the new episode ot the boys

[floral terrace]

can I ping the mods so we can get this done?

[robust ledge]

Enjoy.

[raven urchin]

Wow, I come to say hi and this is the first thing I seem

Curiously friendly, huh

[floral terrace]

trolls and bots, what's new

[robust ledge]

No need to not be friendly. You can always be unfriendly later.

[raven urchin]

Nothing new, just funny to read their arguments

I always see this around the most toxic part of the programming community, they always hate something and think anything that's not what they use is useless/trash/bad/etc

Eg, I've read a lot that Go is pretty good for web stuff, and then I read people saying it's useless for a "serious project".

I didn't know docker was just a fun project hehe.

[floral terrace]

ideally, it should just be lame jokes and not genuine hate lol

[tame vapor]

tbh u can tell if a person is trolling or not and u can gauge how much weight u should put to what they say

[robust ledge]

It's all just a different version of finding a true Scotsman.

[raven urchin]

I've learnt that I should take critiques with a grain of salt unless I see proof of what is said, so I just usually hear the good parts of stuff when it's said as an opinion.

[floral terrace]

we like arguing over useless stuffs tbh

[raven urchin]

The problem is when this arguing confused people that's just starting, like me.

[floral terrace]

welcome to programming lol

[robust ledge]

You will see a number of regulars here try and curb that.

[raven urchin]

I've heard people say that Python is useless and just works for quick scripting.

But for me, it helped me a lot with most general programming concepts

[pastel sluice]

I've learned not to listen to people who say "X is for Y" and see what people who are doing Y are actually using

[stiff fox]

does it help you to save or earn $

[raven urchin]

Yes, that's why I've stopped listening to vague criticism.

[floral terrace]

and now, it is one of the most used languages in the world

[pastel sluice]

"two kinds of languages: the kind everyone complains about, and the kind no one uses"

[mighty bay]

Yo python 2026 is pointless, nvidia ceo said it

[raven urchin]

Perfect take lmao

[spice hill]

I'm trying to test something with Claude, and it keeps CPUmaxxing so hard that Firefox asks me to kill the tab 🥴

[raven urchin]

Nvidia CEO? The one with the funny leather jacket?

[floral terrace]

shut up

[mighty bay]

just learn Ai and computer networking, memorizing syntax is pointless

[raven urchin]

Hey, don't be aggressive, let's hear his arguments.

[mighty bay]

Learn computer networking, not python syntax

[steady rain]

the NVIDIA CEO is motivated to tell people that AI can do anything.

[floral terrace]

@raven urchin I mean ...

[raven urchin]

This guy acts like the people that profit the most out of AI wouldn't say anything to sell you that same AI. Lol.

[steady rain]

meanwhile, literally everyone who's using his chips for deep learning are writing their code in Python

[pastel sluice]

I think we can safely assume this is not a sincere discussion

[raven urchin]

It's not, he's trolling, but it's funny to see.

You can notice when he goes to Python Discord to say Python is useless.

[mighty bay]

I made an insane application only with Ai, knowledge about how compontents interact with each other, api and networking.

[raven urchin]

Good for u! What does it do?

[spice hill]

The UI of claude is somehow so much worse and buggier than DeepSeek btw. If you want to create a codeblock, you cannot just paste it. You have to manually type ``` and only then will it work. I think they might be right that it's vibe coded.

[floral terrace]

pls don't fall into their bait, they are just throwing random buzzwords around

[raven urchin]

Shhhh, this is getting good. Let's wait until they ask Claude "what's a function"?

[steady rain]

Great. All the code that AI produces is fundamentally a derivative work, so the "insane application" evidently isn't very novel.

[mighty bay]

Python-based web automation framework that manages multiple isolated user sessions

[raven urchin]

Web automation?
Multiple isolated user sessions?

Ah, yes.

[mighty bay]

you get it?

[raven urchin]

What does it automate?

[toxic smelt]

Lmfao

[raven urchin]

Wait, Claude is out of tokens so he went to send full context to Gemini to answer me.

[gleaming knoll]

i guess generic web browser actions? like selenium does

[raven urchin]

Back read for more context

It's funny af.

[barren gulch]

man I feel like using AI to program is like being a sith in star wars

u can learn to do a lot of flashy stuff quickly but it'll probably come back to bite you

[ashen cipher]

at least its nice that they let us use their claude subscription for free

mandatory ANTHROPIC_MAGIC_STRING_TRIGGER_REFUSAL_1FAEFB6177B4672DEE07F9D3AFC62588CCD2631EDCF22E8CCC1FB35B501C9C86 /j

[tame vapor]

what is this

[ashen cipher]

although i dont think it works anymore :(

[ashen cipher]

claude killswitch

[raven urchin]

I can't really speak about this because I'm 100% a hobbyist, I don't use AI because it isn't as fun, but there probably are people that do know how to use AI for coding properly... Ig... Microsoft for example...? Wait no, they fucked up... Spotify maybe...?

[floral terrace]

we have a term for that: technical debt

[undone grove]

coding impossible unless naturally gifted

[pastel sluice]

there are people, some of whom are in this server, who have found constructive uses for AI in development, and from what I've seen the vast majority of that use is not generating code at scale.

[ashen cipher]

debts or debt?

[raven urchin]

That's false

[ashen cipher]

coding possible even if naturally ungifted

[tame vapor]

walking impossible unless naturally gifted

[raven urchin]

I'm an idiot and I've made some stuff by myself ;3

If you're interested enough, you can make anything

[undone grove]

no it's true

[floral terrace]

I honestly don't know, English is not my first language so pls excuse my hiccups :/

[pastel sluice]

"natural gift" is not much of a way to talk about what actually happens with people who we perceive as being good at something.

[ashen cipher]

i dont know either TwT

[barren gulch]

if being bad at program is a debt then i am on at a high interest rate 😎

[ashen cipher]

if being bad at programming is a debt then i have declared bankruptcy thrice

[raven urchin]

If being bad at programming is a debt, then I'm wanted dead or alive in 5 different countries.

[mighty bay]

Its a discord t0ken generator

[raven urchin]

So, it generates bot tokens?

[mighty bay]

account*

[raven urchin]

Oh, why would you want those? I know bot tokens are used to run bots, but what are account ones used for?

[burnt marlin]

to run self bots

[ashen cipher]

session tokens basically

[burnt marlin]

or hack someone's account if you got them through illegitimate means

[ashen cipher]

well not really

[raven urchin]

Log-in codes, basically?

[ashen cipher]

account tokens are just how your session authorizes itself

bot tokens are account tokens for a bot

[raven urchin]

That explains it

Then why would you need a "Python-based web automation framework that manages multiple isolated user sessions" to generate discord tokens?

[ashen cipher]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[raven urchin]

Vibecoders will vibe lmao

[barren gulch]

word salad

"login script" will suffice

[ashen cipher]

its not really a script..

[barren gulch]

Potato potato

[raven urchin]

I don't think it's really that

Also, why framework?

[ashen cipher]

framework laptop /j

[raven urchin]

Goated

Fun fact, like ~50% of Framework 13 Pro laptops are being sold with Ubuntu instead of Windows. :3
(Like 90% of those probably are because it's cheaper)

[inland karma]

same with lenovo... or was it thinkpads.. one of them

support cases went down by a substatial large margin

[raven urchin]

Lenovo ThinkPads are the MacBook of Linux lmao

[velvet trout]

Why we getting roblox help questions... I thought lua is standard for them lol

[raven urchin]

They want to make cheats for Roblox

At least most of what I've seen are cheats for it.

[inland karma]

people use python to automate game modes

[velvet trout]

Python's Aura 🔥

[raven urchin]

(It's not against their ToS, so it's technically legal to discuss here)

[velvet trout]

Is there a python edit

[inland karma]

roblox insentiiveses people to program the game, they want you to use lua though

[raven urchin]

They made their own Lua fork, it's called Luau

[velvet trout]

Isn't luau typed?

like type annotations maybe

[raven urchin]

I was gonna learn Luau actually, but never really was that interested in Roblox.

[velvet trout]

lua-u, unsigned lua lmao

[inland karma]

like python? yes

[bronze dragon]

lua is just long unsigned a

[raven urchin]

Lol

[ashen cipher]

i use thinkpad...

[mighty bay]

Yea I didn't think Claude would be able to pull that off

[raven urchin]

I have a custom PC built by myself! :3

[mighty bay]

with updated everything

[velvet trout]

Lmao

[velvet trout]

yeah

[raven urchin]

What do you use it for?

[mighty bay]

Tried it first with no proxy and it worked

[velvet trout]

I was about to program in lua but it doesn't have built-in support for type annotations :/

[mighty bay]

wicked stuff

[raven urchin]

[mighty bay]

spam, basically

[raven urchin]

Annotations enjoyer?

[mighty bay]

mosty for fun

[fathom kelp]

re-learning python rn, made this simple thingy: ```py

Write your code here :-)

print("how are you doing")
x = input(">")
print("great to hear that you are doing " + x)
print("what is your favorite number")
y = input(">")
print("oh so it is " + str(int(y)))
print("what is your name?")
b = input(">")
print("your name is " + str(len(b)) + " characters long")
a = 10 - float(y)
print(str(round(abs(a))))

if len(b) >= 5:
print("something")

elif len(b) <= 5:
print("hi")

elif len(b) == 5:
print("bye")

[raven urchin]

!code

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[fathom kelp]

thx

[gleaming knoll]

luau is luats++
you can actually run it outside of roblox

[raven urchin]

You can notice you've used the right one because it has syntax highlighting

print("like this one")```

[fathom kelp]

how come mine didn't have synax highlighting

i changed it to 3 backticks

[wise imp]

you didn't add the language hint

[raven urchin]

have to add py at the end of the first three

[fathom kelp]

ohh ty

[raven urchin]

```py
Like this, with a newline for code.

[raven urchin]

Yessss

[wise imp]

did they change the color theme or something?

[gleaming knoll]

yes

[fathom kelp]

I think I'll js do 1 chapter per day' of automate the boring stuff w python

then I'll move onto other stuff for my meteorology thingy

[velvet trout]

Ofcourse

I was once a hater of it (sometimes i hate it but i know its a best practice now and is a standard)

[wise imp]

peak UX change ||/s||

[raven urchin]

I'm forcing myself to use more type annotations, too, since it's a good practice

[velvet trout]

+2

[spice hill]

Did they actually increase the contrast of the theme? Or did I just get used to it?

[wise imp]

I'd say the colors are more muted now

mods, can you unmute them

[raven urchin]

Lmao

[ashen cipher]

imo the highlighting is better but the colors are worse

[raven urchin]

Me with custom colors thanks to Vesktop

[velvet trout]

how are you doing
>Bad
great to hear that you are doing bad

[ashen cipher]

mods, ban /j

[raven urchin]

HAHA

[velvet trout]

Ik, real

[ashen cipher]

lua this shit

[fathom kelp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1240662452652347452/1402169168073326652/attachment.gif

oh nvm embed fail

[raven urchin]

Guys I kinda want to re-customize my desktop. What should I base my new theme on?

[velvet trout]

Malice? Smile?

[ashen cipher]

gruvbox

[stray field]

Vesktop is just repackaged electron.

[velvet trout]

Ruby

[raven urchin]

Lmao 😭

[velvet trout]

That thing's OP song is still in my head.

Peak song

[gleaming knoll]

find a wallpaper you really like and base the theme on that

[velvet trout]

Should make one for Programmers

[raven urchin]

Yk what? I'll figure out stow and make a ruby rice just for you

[velvet trout]

That's cool

Aqua will like it fs

[raven urchin]

HAHA ofc

[ashen cipher]

i just use pywal

[gleaming knoll]

i, too, use pywal

[raven urchin]

What's pywal

[wise imp]

why are you using paywalls?

[velvet trout]

Pay to wall

[gleaming knoll]

a program that takes the major colors from an image and generates files based on templates
used to generate colorschemes for various apps from a wallpaper

[velvet trout]

Because they're indebted to walls

[raven urchin]

They're newspapers now

[charred tusk]

I wall for free

[velvet trout]

Lol

[raven urchin]

Ooohh, that sounds cool.

My system does that by default

[shrewd pine]

-Wall -Werror for free

[raven urchin]

Noctalia shell picks up my wallpaper color and changes the .config of all the apps I select to match the color scheme

[gleaming knoll]

-Wall for free()

[charred tusk]

☺️

[velvet trout]

Holy gcc reference

[gleaming knoll]

i kinda want to get into ricing stuff myself at some point
but its a lot of effort

[velvet trout]

I am curious why it doesn't separate by whitespace than concatenation of value

[shrewd pine]

ricing for looks bad

[velvet trout]

Does it supports -W {arg} ?

[shrewd pine]

ricing for functionality good

[gleaming knoll]

well, i basically dont have a functional desktop
i only have a wallpaper and.. thats it

[wise imp]

looksminning

[shrewd pine]

this is the way

[silent fable]

i have a linux rice with pywall

[gleaming knoll]

i would like the apps i use to be coherent
and like
actually have something

[velvet trout]

Omurice

[shrewd pine]

can't have a cluttered desktop if you don't have a desktop

[raven urchin]

Try it, it's really fun. Just don't get into Waybar configs, that's the equivalent of hell.

[silent fable]

gui is bloated use tty

[gleaming knoll]

i use pavucontrol for volume and it just gets out of the whole vibe
well
i can control volume with commands too so

[silent fable]

same fr fr @gleaming knoll

[velvet trout]

How many cli programs supports -OptName{value} concatenated? Or just old ones and new ones don't do this?

[raven urchin]

WM?

[velvet trout]

Seems really cursed

[shrewd pine]

I use it if I need the control, if just overall volume I have scroll bindings

[gleaming knoll]

im on hyprland but im not really attached to it
i just wanted to try it when first installing linux so thats what im on

[fathom kelp]

a = 0
while a >= 0:
    a = a + 1
    print(str(a))
``` that goes hella fast wth

[silent fable]

twin im also on hyprland

[velvet trout]

I don't wanna add support for it in mine but I don't want to lose wider range audience either

[ashen cipher]

im on hyprland

[raven urchin]

Try noctalia shell. It makes ricing so easy.

It has plugins for everything lol.

[raven urchin]

Everyone is on Hyprland (I'm everyone)

[gleaming knoll]

i dont want to use a ready setup

[shrewd pine]

super+shift+scroll iirc, it works well

[ashen cipher]

hi everyone

[silent fable]

i tried noctalia HyDE is peak

[raven urchin]

Noctalia is the equivalent of tuned waybar with plugin support

[velvet trout]

hi everyone, i am noone.

[shrewd pine]

I used i3wm for so long that sway was the one sensible option when going to wayland

[silent fable]

Noctalia is good for new ppl but thats kinda it.

[ashen cipher]

i never used i3wm

[raven urchin]

I tried sway too :)

[gleaming knoll]

i have i3 on a 1gb 32bit laptop
its running void linux

[bronze dragon]

I think GNU getopt does, which is ofc major

[raven urchin]

If it's good for new ppl, it'd be amazing for advanced people. I will learn QML to make my own plugins.

[ashen cipher]

what does it even do

[silent fable]

i have arch on a thinkpad 2gb ram openbox

[velvet trout]

Ooh, seems like i am gonna be incompatible with them

[gleaming knoll]

the laptop? its just
a thing
it exists

[shrewd pine]

is this a cpu joke?

[ashen cipher]

fair

[raven urchin]

I have Arch in my phone. Larping to the max.

[silent fable]

use gentoo larp forever

[ashen cipher]

i use arch
on a thinkpad
running hyprland
which i configure with neovim...

[gleaming knoll]

its like that really old grandpa in a nursing home
atleast he gets to talk with other peeps

[ashen cipher]

fair

[raven urchin]

The true goat.

[silent fable]

"I use arch btw"

[shrewd pine]

3/4, passable

[ashen cipher]

what's the fourth

[raven urchin]

What's the missing one

[ashen cipher]

oh i also write rust

[velvet trout]

Or make the parser get cursed to handle such concatenated option-value

Why did they choose this, I don't find it any good

[raven urchin]

I want to learn Rust some day

[shrewd pine]

hyprland no

[raven urchin]

Why not? Hyprland is pretty good, even if the creator is an idiot

[ashen cipher]

i assume they mean sway

[silent fable]

fr

[gleaming knoll]

i actually dont use tiling
i think i would prefer scrolling

[velvet trout]

def _parse_long_option(token: OptionToken, context: ParseContext) -> OptionNode:
    option = context.node.command.get_long_option(token.name)
    if not option:
       # have to implement that concatenated logic here. Or else:
        raise UnknownLongOptionError(token.name)

[crisp jay]

hyprland bloat ngl

[shrewd pine]

I'm too i3wm brained

[ashen cipher]

same (first part)

[raven urchin]

Have you tried Niri? Pretty goated

[gleaming knoll]

so maybe i should jump to niri

[ashen cipher]

i just use one-window workspaces

[silent fable]

probably icewm am i right or am i right

[gleaming knoll]

me too

[shrewd pine]

as long as you don't go floating/stacking

[crisp jay]

only i3 (maybe dwm but idk if they have the stack tiling from i3)

[ashen cipher]

another thing macOS has traumatized me with

[silent fable]

expected, cool

[crisp jay]

who tf uses stack on i3

[gleaming knoll]

except when i (code | watch videos) + browse something then its 2 windows on 1 workspace

[toxic smelt]

I am back @raven urchin

[silent fable]

macos worst os by faaaaaar

[crisp jay]

nah

[toxic smelt]

My phone died

[raven urchin]

I mean. Tiling for laptop is kinda bad. Scrolling is goated for laptops.

[shrewd pine]

I routinely have like 5-6 terminals on a workspace

[ashen cipher]

s/macos/windows

[gleaming knoll]

what
is
bro
doing

[raven urchin]

Why

[crisp jay]

which terminal

[ashen cipher]

i occasionally have 2

[gleaming knoll]

its terminal

[silent fable]

i use zutty

[ashen cipher]

inb4 alacritty

[toxic smelt]

Alacritty anyone?

[shrewd pine]

ghostty, since a bit

[raven urchin]

Kitty enjoyer herr

[ashen cipher]

i feel like i should use alacritty

[crisp jay]

man,one day you guys will discover the beauty in st

[ashen cipher]

kitty is a bunch of things i dont use

[toxic smelt]

I got kitty on my arch server

[silent fable]

same on main machine

[crisp jay]

use st trust me

[gleaming knoll]

same

[toxic smelt]

And honestly when was the last time I did sudo pacman -Syu??

[bronze dragon]

same, although I use my terminal emulator's tiling instead of WM-level tiling
multiple files, some long-running programs to monitor, some shells, some REPLs, it adds up

[toxic smelt]

Holy months ago

[ashen cipher]

*11

[ashen cipher]

i did it the day before

[toxic smelt]

Shit I didn't update my kernel...

[ashen cipher]

that would be wise about now

[raven urchin]

Make sure to have Informant installed so it doesn't break when updated. It will make you read Arch news to see if you have to manually intervene before updating to avoid breaking stuff.

[gleaming knoll]

to get the patch against copyfail?

[silent fable]

https://tenor.com/view/arch-linux-linux-lucky-star-konata-i-use-arch-btw-gif-16130366266390991445

[crisp jay]

kitty has 3 problems:
1- 200mb per instance
2- features that doesnt really matter
3- slow

[gleaming knoll]

kitty is many things but slow is not one of them

[raven urchin]

Slow?

[silent fable]

oh yea did yall get patched kernel

[crisp jay]

i probably have the slowest pc then

[ashen cipher]

this

[crisp jay]

i patched it manually

[ashen cipher]

didnt need to, arch already had 7.0.0 the day copyfail came out

[toxic smelt]

Arch enthusiast?

I also use Debian and want to switch my main gaming laptop to it... But for now it is settled to Win11 because an year before I thought nvidia would suck on linux

[ashen cipher]

i will never use debian for my personal computer

[toxic smelt]

That's a great heads-up alright noted

[crisp jay]

debian is fine if you dont use the autoinstaller

[ashen cipher]

mainly because i need my packages on the bleeding edge

[silent fable]

debian is kinda ehhh, i use devuan on my larp laptop

[toxic smelt]

Wdym lucky star konata in there bro

[crisp jay]

worst thing was trying out debian with gnome

[toxic smelt]

Oh I surgically nuked gnome

[silent fable]

worst de

[toxic smelt]

Only libre office stands

[silent fable]

peakiest office app everrr

[velvet trout]

Does it do the same for --long-optValue ?

[crisp jay]

man i hate how theres some good gnome/kde software,but because they are entitled to a de when you try to download it you get like 100 dependencies

[bronze dragon]

nope
that would be kinda insane lol

[velvet trout]

Who who programs do -abcValue too? tar?

[toxic smelt]

If I find any other gnome I will simply zao those out of existence.

My PC's fairy tale lands must exterminate gnomes

[gleaming knoll]

real

[velvet trout]

Lol

[silent fable]

ok wait do yall use vscode, vscodium or raw code oss

[toxic smelt]

Frfr true

[velvet trout]

argparse supports this

[toxic smelt]

Neovim

[silent fable]

cool

[toxic smelt]

Left VSCode curse long ago

[silent fable]

i use vscodium personally

[bronze dragon]

they're mostly if you install more than one (as is likely)
also, the packages are split up (leading to more number of packages) exactly to avoid pulling in the entirety of their respective frameworks.

[raven urchin]

Amén

[gleaming knoll]

but mah package count

[silent fable]

whats ur larp os

[ashen cipher]

Depends On      : at-spi2-core  cairo  dconf  gdk-pixbuf2  glib2  glibc  grilo  gst-plugins-base  gst-plugins-base-libs  gst-plugins-good  gstreamer  gtk3  gvfs  gvfs-mtp hicolor-icon-theme  json-glib  libgcc  libgudev  libmtp  libnotify  libpeas  libsecret  libsoup3  libx11  libxml2  media-player-info  pango  python python-gobject  tdb  totem-plparser```

[raven urchin]

Arch

[toxic smelt]

I never tried that.

Is it dependent on Microsoft?

[gleaming knoll]

i have 1289 packages even though i have a barebones desktop
what the fuck is this

[raven urchin]

No, it's the one I used, is true FOSS

[silent fable]

nope open source version of vscode

[toxic smelt]

I am confused between Debian and Arch atp

[toxic smelt]

Ooooo

[rare gazelle]

hello

[raven urchin]

Hii

[toxic smelt]

Wassup

[silent fable]

my larp os is arch

[silent fable]

hi

[toxic smelt]

Recently gnome removed logout button

[raven urchin]

Mine too. I have 2 other OS and they do have a purpose. Arch is there for the love of the game

[toxic smelt]

What is this for?

[raven urchin]

They're both goated

[silent fable]

yep

i use nano foor configs

[toxic smelt]

Nano is fine I heard it can be configured too

[raven urchin]

I used it for that too, but changed to neovim for everything

[toxic smelt]

But usually using one editor is best

[silent fable]

should i try neovim?

[toxic smelt]

Of course.
True keyboard independence

[raven urchin]

It's pretty good, you can use it inside VS Codium too

[stray field]

Yes. Try lazyvim

[crisp jay]

what

[silent fable]

ok i will

[toxic smelt]

https://youtu.be/HcJJ7UldMc8

[silent fable]

i use hyprland so i barely even use my mouse

[raven urchin]

Install LazyVim for Neovim, then on VS Codium install the Neovim plugin

That'll make Neovim the "backend" of you VS Codium

[silent fable]

ok

[toxic smelt]

That's what I liked about hyprland but honestly I think any wm comes with that experience.

I just tried awesomewm and it worked too

[stray field]

Is that how it works, or does it just enable vim keybinds for vscode?

[silent fable]

now gnome is more minimalist wow next is reboot button

[raven urchin]

That's how it works. The vim one does emulate the keybinds tho.

[toxic smelt]

Though awesomewm lacks full customisation.

Afaik

[raven urchin]

With Neovim you can use the plugins inside Codium

[undone isle]

yall