python-discussion

[silver plover]

Can you explain how the data will flow? Are the subprocesses just consuming the data? Or returning results? Mutating the dict?

[chilly whale]

by "take action" I meant "change the code". Of course I reply why I didn't when I don't 🙂

[silver plover]

For something like this, maybe start with a side project as a minimal proof of concept

[vale wasp]

Phew. I've seen people who just click "resolve" without doing so much as a reply.

[hot junco]

Well that file is on a sandbox device

[vale wasp]

And with that, I'm off to bed. Work is coming sooner than I'd like in the morning.

[brisk gazelle]

So long as whatever you're sending over the queue is pickleable, you should be okay. @hot junco

[silver plover]

(Unless they're expecting bidirectional flow)

[chilly whale]

I'm definitely of the opinion that code reviews are the best tool we have for knowledge sharing. Using them to correct someone's misconceptions is a great use of them!

[vale wasp]

[vale wasp]

I always tell new people - look at the PRs. Even if you don't feel competent to comment, look at the PRs and what other people are saying and what changes are going in.

[hot junco]

So what I made is a multiprocessing function that can start 5 processes not including the main process, but I want the processes to be able to share data on one variable between all active processes and the main for heavy multitasking.

[hot junco]

pickable?

Basically a single communication line where all data can be shared IF asked of the program.

[granite wyvern]

There's a pickle module for writing python objects in a binary format so that they can be sent to a subprocess (which is underneath a binary stream to each subprocess). It's a widely used thing for python->python object copying.

[silver plover]

You want each process to be able to modify the same variable, such as that all other processes can see the result?

[brisk gazelle]

Per the pickle module. But BillyBobby is right to point out as to if this dictionary is supposed to be a shared state, or just communication of information. If you want a shared state, there are a few classes in multiprocessing for that.

But it still has to be pickleable.

[hot junco]

Yes, so that if a task requires multiple processes to run on seperate "cores" (as I call them), they can share the live data to achieve said task when necessary

[sand hornet]

I agree. And it's usually something to bring to a standup, round table, or other team meeting. If y'all have a knowledge base, then it's as simple as calling out any changes you make to the knowledge base and starting a thread elsewhere about it so everyone can ask/answer as-available.

[brisk gazelle]

Any shared state is virtually shared. It's still cross communucated across processes.

[hot junco]

Im gonna be honest, Im VERY unfamiliar with all that. I through myself into python barely a year ago

[hot junco]

How so?

[sand hornet]

pickle and pkl always get me (I know they're extremely different, but they're pronounced the same way)

[brisk gazelle]

It's not shared memory like in the threading module.

It's communicated across processes.

I don't understand the technical details, but I expect there's caching and update callbacks to update/communicate things as needed.

It might just live entirely in one process' memory and readwrite from other processes might be pure communication with the one authoritative copy.

That communication is why everything you store in this shared state needs to be pickle compatible serialisable.

It will tell you if it isn't.

[hot junco]

So is using a dictionary variable in a multiprocess.Queue setting a viable way to share a data sharing and modify?

[brisk gazelle]

You can communicate state, but modifying that at one end will not affect those at the other ends unless you do it explicitly.

[hot junco]

Explicitly?

[brisk gazelle]

Communicating the updated state.

You're transmitting copies of the data. Like if I have one page of writing and I e-mail it to you. You editing your copy doesn't alter mine.

You'd have to email me back with the updated copy.

Emailing is the queue.

[hot junco]

So I have to make sure its constantly transmitting the new data.

or at least every time its updated.

[brisk gazelle]

Unless you use one of the "shared" state classes in multiprocessing, of which I don't think there's a dict like.

!d multiprocessing

[edgy kraken]

multiprocessing

Source code: Lib/multiprocessing/

Availability: not Android, not iOS, not WASI.

This module is not supported on mobile platforms or WebAssembly platforms.

[hot junco]

Yeah I read up on that and I dont remember seeing any dict in the examples. Most of what Ive read is mainly for multiprocess to main process communication, no multiprocess to multiprocess to main process sharing and communication.

[brisk gazelle]

Hm. I'm just looking at the managers part.

It doesn't look straightforward. I'd have to stare at it and chew.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6832554/multiprocessing-how-do-i-share-a-dict-among-multiple-processes Hm.

[hot junco]

Wow, looks like I wasnt the only one.

[hot junco]

Yeah, I think this person is describing exaclty what Im trying to figure out.

[tame hinge]

It looks pretty straight forward to me. If you take a dict on a manager it looks like both processes can modify and read from it seamlessly?

[brisk gazelle]

I get easily overwhelmed by information.

[tame hinge]

Valid

[hot junco]

Yeah but I was detered by the fact that its talking about data sharing between a parent and child process, not multiple child processes like Im trying.

[tame hinge]

I would imagine this works for multiple

[hot junco]

Thanks for sharing that old forum though. It might have some ideas I can implement into my project,

[hot junco]

I would just have to cake it apart

[brisk gazelle]

As a general idea, I am partial to cake.

[hot junco]

🤦‍♂️ take

[native coyote]

sorry

[brittle grail]

it's fine.

[soft fable]

testing

ivan, what did you do

[brittle grail]

he send a URL

link

[soft fable]

i see

[brittle grail]

[soft fable]

[velvet trout]

[raven urchin]

Ooohh, I've had a great idea

After finishing my lil game I could package it

[granite wyvern]

ISTR that with multiprocessing all the processes are children of your initial process. So I'd imagine (I've never tried this) that if you can share between a parent and one child you can shared between all.

I'm thinking some piece of shared memory here I think.

[raven urchin]

I can still add a lot more stuff

Let's see how much I can learn about pyside with just a tic tac toe >:)

[swift sparrow]

honestly that's a great way to learn. Build something, and then keep adding and modifying

but it is still helpful to start new things so you can remind yourself of all the setup too

[brittle grail]

chat now i made coding fun asff

[raven urchin]

I'm loving it, because it teaches you in a practical way and it's super fun

[swift sparrow]

it taught me the most about classes and inheritance

[raven urchin]

Yeah, my main project is a discord bot I add stuff to periodically, but these "side quests" are incredible too.

It's teaching me a lot about organization and using multiple classes together to build something bigger :3

[brittle grail]

fashoomp and saber , let's say that I want to import a library, but for example, a mathematics library. How do I search in libraries? ?

[raven urchin]

[swift sparrow]

depends if you're referring to standard library or 3rd party ones

[brittle grail]

google or github

[raven urchin]

You have to investigate what you need and what suits your needs

[brittle grail]

wdym by 3rd party one

[swift sparrow]

python comes with modules (the standard library), like you could do import math without having to install anything special

[raven urchin]

If it's built-in (default) or you have to install it (3rd party)

[swift sparrow]

but people are also able to package and release their own libraries for you to install

[brittle grail]

ik i don't have to install anything special but is there any other library than math

[brittle grail]

oh i understand it now

[swift sparrow]

it really depends what you want to do

[raven urchin]

numpy comes to mind, that's a third party.

[swift sparrow]

think about what you want to know, then do a bit of research to see if a library exists to achieve that

[brittle grail]

yea

[swift sparrow]

for 3rd party libraries, there's pypi

!pypi

[edgy kraken]

Missing required argument

package

[swift sparrow]

!pypi numpy

[edgy kraken]

numpy v2.4.4

Fundamental package for array computing in Python

Released on <t:1774790521:D>.

[swift sparrow]

(for example)

[raven urchin]

This reminds me that I want to make this exact command but with GitHub repos...

[brittle grail]

oh alr then I'll go Explore by myself .

[raven urchin]

Well, I now have homework for after I finish my TicTacToe

[raven urchin]

First of all, what do you want to build?

[brittle grail]

it's weird , like a college professor that ask you about very hard math

[raven urchin]

I mean what do you want to code

What's the problem you want to solve

[swift sparrow]

I think they're saying some sort of tutor program that asks you math questions

[raven urchin]

Ohh

That sounds cool, kind of like a math Duolingo?

[brittle grail]

well there no problem i have cuz you and fashoomp solved my problem

[brittle grail]

nah not like that i mean college math

[raven urchin]

You want a special calculator?

[brittle grail]

and i want to make a thing if you get 4/10 ( you failed )
if (5/10 you're on the edge )
and like that

[raven urchin]

[brittle grail]

nah i need to make hard things by myself to become better

[swift sparrow]

do you already know what sort of questions you want to ask?

[brittle grail]

yessir.

[swift sparrow]

why do you think you need a special library?

[charred tusk]

My nap was too long and now its night and I can't sleep
I've never seen chat at this hour before

[raven urchin]

Oh

[brittle grail]

i don't want a special library but i thought there was only the library called math

[raven urchin]

But what kind of math you'll use?

[brittle grail]

idk lol

[raven urchin]

[swift sparrow]

it's a bit hard to search for something if you don't know what you're looking for

[brittle grail]

but probably i want to make very hard math equations

[raven urchin]

You'll have to make a plan to follow

[brittle grail]

yea fr

[brittle grail]

i made a plan i just need to make it rn

[raven urchin]

After that, it's a lot easier to make something

[raven urchin]

A more detailed plan.

[swift sparrow]

what sort of things have you already made?

[brittle grail]

well yea ur right , if i found a problem in my code I'll ask y'all

[brittle grail]

a calculator, a barista and much other things

[raven urchin]

You can make a #1035199133436354600 thread anytime you need assistance

[raven urchin]

Barista?

[brittle grail]

I haven't read what's in this section before. Thank you.

[brittle grail]

yea a starbucks barista

[desert dagger]

how long did it take u to create a calculator

[raven urchin]

[brittle grail]

well it was easy but you can say it took me like 2 hours ( i was a newbie )

[raven urchin]

Well

I'm going to sleep, good night

[desert dagger]

so cool

[desert dagger]

night bro

[brittle grail]

now im better ( im using bpython cuz it has colors)

[brittle grail]

good night twin

[brittle grail]

ty

[raven urchin]

❤️

[desert dagger]

np bro

[brittle grail]

:))

[desert dagger]

^^

[brittle grail]

chat is there a library called History ?

[charred tusk]

out of the question
we were just asking!

[charred tusk]

Are you trying to make one?

[shrewd plinth]

https://pypi.org/search/?q=history

[brittle grail]

nope i thought there was but there was none :(.

[shrewd plinth]

idk if any are explicitly "History" but there are over 10k

[brittle grail]

ty .

[brittle grail]

damn bro just shared a hidden gem

[swift sparrow]

I showed you pypi moments ago 😅

[brittle grail]

well yea but i didn't understand what u said ( i didn't want to be a bombo . sorry twin )

[swift sparrow]

Did you click it when I linked it to you?

[brittle grail]

i thought pypi is a library

💔💔💔

[brittle grail]

nope , there was no link

[swift sparrow]

I linked to numpy as an example

you were meant to click to it to see the site

[brittle grail]

sorry bro

[brittle grail]

u mean this?

owww

sorry bro

[brittle grail]

the professor thing worked but it has some problems

it keep repeating the questions

[quartz fulcrum]

good morning,
ready to learn again!

[brittle grail]

gm wizard

[paper kiln]

Hello!

[velvet trout]

Hi

[brittle merlin]

gm

ready to grind assignments again :C

[quartz fulcrum]

all the best

[raw bramble]

😔 I’m a gamer trapped in real life

Who else yells “+4HP!” after eating their breakfast in the morning?

[lost lagoon]

i dont yell it... it just show on top of me

[peak relic]

I dont but if I dont get enough sleep or eat breakfast, I will talk in simlish

[chilly trout]

,topic

tf

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**What is your motivation for programming?**

Suggest more topics here!

[chilly trout]

fun

.topic

yeah wtv

[hybrid nebula]

That's just hypoglycemia

[raw bramble]

fun :D it’s a good creative outlet (also it makes people around me think I’m smart 😈😈)

[native coyote]

a fish simulator game

[peak relic]

Money

[raw bramble]

You’re in the wrong place then my friend

[autumn forge]

I fear you're alone on that one

[native coyote]

🤑

[hybrid nebula]

Who is actually responsible for convincing the unaware that programming is in any way related to 'hacking'

[peak relic]

That explains the weight gain

[raw bramble]

Who is actually responsible for convincing the unaware that hacking is typing loads of ones and zeros on a keyboard and saying “I’m in”

Far too many people genuinely believe that’s what hacking is

[hybrid nebula]

Holl E. Wood

[chilly trout]

i mean to be a 'hacker' you have to be a programmer

[hybrid nebula]

Do you?

[raw bramble]

Not really

[chilly trout]

ive pentested before on a small scale

[chilly trout]

to make exploits on a system level you 100% need programming, for pentesting youll still likely need it for an advanced target

[raw bramble]

I thought more people in computing / ICT would be interested in programming but I’m the only person in my classes who knows any programming or cares about programming at all 😭

[hybrid nebula]

It's also weird how programming is just. not covered in school

[raw bramble]

Oh yeah, but you don’t need it to be a hacker. You would be able to get away with knowing very little about computers for most things

[chilly trout]

ehh, only for websites that have pretty much 0 security

[raw bramble]

I think it’s weird how people doing cybersec would think that programming is “useless”

[chilly trout]

like if theres no attempt to secure it you could do something like an sql injection straight from the terminal

[inland karma]

good morning

[raw bramble]

Good morning eivl!

[chilly trout]

gm

[hybrid nebula]

We have advanced chemistry in our curriculum, even though 99% of students won't touch that (for good reason) outside of school, while the average person is in front of a screen for multiple hours a day and still can't tell you how any of that works

[raw bramble]

My school only taught Visual Basic ;-;

And didn’t teach many of the programming parts of it, it was visual, but it was extremely basic

[hybrid nebula]

My school 'taught' us Java.
We had to learn certain snippets by heart.

[chilly trout]

off topic but would i be allowed to publish this #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval message in #1468524576479641744 because the original code was written by me but refactored + added to (a bit) by claude

[raw bramble]

Yeah that’s what they did but with html instead

[hybrid nebula]

lol

[raw bramble]

The quality of computing education I received in school makes me want to become an ICT teacher to give people a better quality of education

[quartz fulcrum]

@peak relic we were discussing the utc and offset thing, i want to know now how do i set the timezone offset separate for every individual

[hybrid nebula]

same tbh

[quartz fulcrum]

gm

[peak relic]

IIRC you were doing the account class. You set it in the account instance as an offset attribute. Or timezone attribute

[inland karma]

sure, just make sure you follow the rules, liike, it must be python, it must be open sourced, you must use the ai coding tag

[chilly trout]

alright ty

[raw bramble]

I don’t really know what I want to do though, either teach something or create something

[quartz fulcrum]

unsure what you mean

[peak relic]

you know what class attributes are, right?

[quartz fulcrum]

yes

[raw bramble]

I just want to be the wise sensei you climb to the top of mountains alone to reach and I bestow wisdom upon you, the first spinjitzu master

[peak relic]

show me an example

[hybrid nebula]

The one thing I wouldn't do in this economy is getting a degree

[quartz fulcrum]

class Account:
    current_time = dt.datetime.now(timezone.utc)```

[peak relic]

current_time would be the class attribute, right?

[quartz fulcrum]

yes

[raw bramble]

I’m very fortunate that my country has scrapped tuition fees so I’m able to go to university for a degree, but damn it seems so extortionate everywhere else

[peak relic]

then make another attribute for offset or timezone.

[quartz fulcrum]

very cool

[raw bramble]

Why leave people with sucha high amount of debt if they’re never going to be able to pay it off?

[quartz fulcrum]

shouldnt we make a instance attribute

[hybrid nebula]

It's the same inmy country too.
Still, for CS graduates, the market is fully saturated

[quartz fulcrum]

as everyone has different timezone

[peak relic]

of course

so when you init a new instance, make sure to pass timezone when making that instance

[raw bramble]

This is why I don’t really know what I want to do

I originally wanted to be a game developer but that doesn’t seem like a very stable or fun job to have at the moment

[pallid frigate]

hello

[chilly trout]

how do i add comments to a .gitignore again im blanking

its a hashtag right?

[bronze dragon]

#

[chilly trout]

ty

[peak relic]

to help make this clear, recall one of your old classes that you were learning about a Person class. And that person class has a name attribute. Same idea

[brittle merlin]

can u upload a whole movie to github?

[peak relic]

that would hit the git LFS

[peak relic]

https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/working-with-files/managing-large-files/about-large-files-on-github

If you attempt to add or update a file that is larger than 50 MiB, you will receive a warning from Git.
GitHub blocks files larger than 100 MiB.

[brittle merlin]

damn

[pallid frigate]

im bored lol

[peak relic]

build something

[pallid frigate]

dunno what to build

[hybrid nebula]

!kindling

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[brittle merlin]

spam your friends with email

how does gmail flag mails as spam? is there any way to control that metadata?

[pallid frigate]

nope don't think so

bro i am not experienced enough for 90% of these lol

bagels..?

[quartz fulcrum]

i am still confused...

[pallid frigate]

same

[hybrid nebula]

They're not telling you, for good reason

[swift sparrow]

What sort of things have you made so far?

[pallid frigate]

file management, began my own lang

brb

[peak relic]

can you show me how you write your Person class that takes and sets a name value?

[quartz fulcrum]

class Person:
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name```

[peak relic]

yea like that. but instead of name, you pass in the Account's timezone or offset.

[quartz fulcrum]

how do i know his timezone...do i need to create a method?

[peak relic]

you dont need to know. You let the user/client decide.

[quartz fulcrum]

ah ok

what the user going to type in place of offset

[inland karma]

same way the users name, you dont know that, you let the user decide

[peak relic]

looking at your assignment, it seems to take in a number of hours like -7

[quartz fulcrum]

okay..but above message?

[quartz fulcrum]

yes

[teal cradle]

Hello, world

[peak relic]

yes... so you let the user enter whatever integer they want. you dont need to hardcode -7. Thats just an example

[inland karma]

some common options are timedelta string and integer as datatypes

'+0200' is also a common string format

[quartz fulcrum]

they didnt expresses much in the assignment about this, so which one i should type

[inland karma]

pick the one you feels will be simplest. working with numbers is simple because you can use math on them

[swift sparrow]

it doesn't matter much which you choose as long as you pick one and stick with it

[quartz fulcrum]

okay..

[azure pine]

Good afternoon guys , my 3rd day with python

[quartz fulcrum]

well done, a great journey is ahead for you

i think my eng is wrong here..but you get the point

[azure pine]

yeah thanks , python community is really great.

[azure pine]

i have no problem , i dont think my eng is good either.

[simple thistle]

yayaya

hello internet!!

[raw swallow]

I'm thinking about buying claude subscription. But I don't have much of an idea about it.

What I want is
1 - get API and use can use it as chatbot in my projects

2 - it helps me in coding and I can chat about architecture, design, features etc with it (all preferably in my IDE which currently is vscode)

I'd be glad if you guys could share your suggestions and experience

[peak relic]

claude code uses their own editor/ interface. I dont know if theres an extension in vscode that can use claude code

[hybrid nebula]

Are there any efficient methods to, given all prime numbers up to N, find the smallest prime greater than N?

[brittle grail]

agent what is API?

[hybrid nebula]

I could just iterate through the (odd) numbers and check for divisibility, but that I think is the least efficient option

[peak relic]

Application Programmable Interface....

[brittle grail]

ohhh alr then , ty for telling me

[jagged belfry]

I think you can do a pseudosieve

If N is not divisible by X, then N+X is not divisible by X

or, I think that's the case

[hybrid nebula]

wdym?

[inland karma]

claude has a different payment structure than others, do you want an api to use an LLM in your appliction AND you want to talk or use anthropic model to talk to about code?

[brittle grail]

yo BIG TWIN hru today ?

[hybrid nebula]

I'm also caching the primes, so I'm thinking I can try and check like 4096 potential primes at a time

[inland karma]

alright, up and working, meeting monday here

[raw swallow]

Yes

[brittle grail]

that's good to hear twin , keep working :)))

[inland karma]

your claude subscriptions gives you the talking to the AI model part, and you have to buy an API key seperatly to use it in your application

[brittle grail]

i build a professor that yell at u and u have to answer his questions :)))))) ( 65 lines 😛😛😛😛😛)

[jagged belfry]

Lets say we have a number N, and a non-divisor A
N % A = B, where B is nonzero (otherwise A would be a divisor)
Then N + A % A = B, because of the definition of the modulus

[hybrid nebula]

Anthropic - We Charge You Thrice And Still Make Losses

[jagged belfry]

( AI got this wrong when I asked it, btw... )

[quartz fulcrum]

a first name property (read/write)
does this mean i should make a method so that i can change the name later?

[hybrid nebula]

So what are you suggesting?

[raw swallow]

Lol

[hybrid nebula]

Breaking news: 'roll a die to determine the next word' does not produce factual output

[jagged belfry]

You can "sieve" the next prime by adding each prime divisor to each number

For example, starting at 71

[autumn forge]

(N + A) % A, surely

[jagged belfry]

!e ```py
for i in range(2, 71+1):
if i % 71 == 0:
print(i)

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

71

[jagged belfry]

yes

then we can consider 73 as our next possible prime

[inland karma]

it can mean that. it probably means you should make name a property

[autumn forge]

ah that confused me for a second

[fiery yarrow]

thuri has message for pygen:
heck time
heck orbital dynamics
end of message

[jagged belfry]

(71+2)

[autumn forge]

thanks thuri ❤️

[quartz fulcrum]

ok

[jagged belfry]

if that fails, we consider (71+3), then (71+2*2), (71+5), (71+2*3)

[fiery yarrow]

(see ot2 for context)

[azure pine]

Find all the primes to some limit , there wont be many , save them to array ,
for finding do a simple binary search.

[jagged belfry]

Hm.. that might just make the natural numbers and not work.

[hybrid nebula]

That's what I plan on doing

[raw swallow]

Ok, understood. Btw, apart from claude, do you have any better idea which

1 - solves my requirements of chatbot via API and chatting partner

2 - cheaper but also nearly same quality of claude's recent models?

[inland karma]

1: claude can help you with this
2: start out with foundantianl models first

[azure pine]

i think this is good solution.

[peak relic]

you could download a model from Ollama and have it run on your machine for free and offline

[jagged belfry]

One thing I did was look at how scipy does it

unless you're trying to push edges it's a pretty decent method

[inland karma]

that would be my step two recommendation

[raw swallow]

Uh, but apart from only coding preferably i also want that llm to like access web to get Real-time data and could also reason

Um , I've no idea but can Ollama models do that?

[peak relic]

yes it can

[raw swallow]

Oh i see, thank you

[inland karma]

ollama is just handling the inference for you, or running the model you have

[quartz fulcrum]

can i push later after commiting multiple times?

[inland karma]

yes, thats what i do

make a few dozen commits and then push

[peak relic]

make small git commits, then push them in one go later

[quartz fulcrum]

btw i am using pycharm for it

[quartz fulcrum]

cool

[quartz fulcrum]

ok

[raw bramble]

Will this work the way I intend it to?
def counter_gen(n:int) # next() returns n and sets n += 1

Class User:
usercounter=counter_gen()
def init(self, usrname):
self.id = next(User.usercounter)
self.username = username

[raw bramble]

(I’m on mobile sorry)

[gaunt badge]

It can, if you implement counter_gen correctly. Or just use itertools.count.

[raw bramble]

Alr so chucking things into the class definition works fine, is it bad practice to do that?

[jade timber]

Hey I got a question about python can somebody please help me with one thing I'm trying to do something with the internet archive and supposedly there's a python code to bypass something on it and I don't know how to use it

[raw bramble]

If I had some dict mapping user ids to those users, would it be bad to have it as like User.userdict

[peak relic]

!rule illegal to help bypass security

[edgy kraken]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[jade timber]

Okay I should have explained a little bit more no it's not a security issue

[peak relic]

then what are you bypassing?

[jade timber]

The zip file limit

[polar vessel]

Hello everyone,
I want to get into backend side of things
If possible, can anyone give me some tips, guidance, pointers on how to go about it ?

I know basic python, non tech background

[raw bramble]

I don’t really understand what you mean, but if you’re asking if you can use Python to bypass some restriction put in place, we probably can’t help with that

[peak relic]

sounds odd. Can you share more info pls? Maybe in a help thread #1035199133436354600

[peak relic]

Have you looked at Flask/FastAPI/Django?

[azure pine]

i think fastapi docs are very very awesome , Just start making Some APIs first.

[sterile storm]

do you know what an api is? what are rest apis? http verbs? frameworks and libraries come later

[jade timber]

Sorry I never reply to you but no it's not security issue it's not something illegal well I don't know if it is or not

[golden mortar]

This course is good to learn web fundamentals, which you will definitely need for backend work: https://www.theodinproject.com/paths/foundations/courses/foundations

[half pewter]

Python serves as middleware for a database most often, core python is super helpful for a variey of tech roles, you'll also want to look at SQL and possibly aws.

[inland karma]

tell us why you want to buypass it, it does sound like your trying to solve another problem

[jade timber]

There's a seven zip limit on internet archives every time I tried to download something that's over 200 GB it's telling me it's too big for a on the fly zip

[sterile storm]

TIL: https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/specifications/inline-script-metadata/#inline-script-metadata

[polar vessel]

I am trying to look into fast api

[inland karma]

yes, but the limit is not based on zip, its based on file system that does not allow larger files than 4GB. there is no way to bypass this

[jade timber]

Okay so the python thing that I saw on a Reddit post saying it is possible it's not real I got link to it

[polar vessel]

I only know vaguely about APIs . Is there any resource where I can learn about this ?

[inland karma]

if you controlled the server, you could change this, but siiince you dont, there are nothing much to do about it

[half pewter]

api's are a fairly complex project, are you familiar with the basics?

[pallid frigate]

dude idk what to do

[inland karma]

zip64 will handle larger files than you can possible store on one machine

[polar vessel]

Sure trying to do that now

[jade timber]

Ok

[polar vessel]

Not exactly 😅

[raw bramble]

How does zip compression work?

[raw bramble]

Nvm how does lossless compression work 😭

[inland karma]

i had to look it up... 16EB

[pallid frigate]

guys idk what to code lol

[polar vessel]

Thank you, will look into this

[jade timber]

16 eB what does that mean

[raw bramble]

Incremental game about growing an ant empire

[peak relic]

make a calculator but use Flet as your GUI

[inland karma]

its what comes after PB, and that is what comes after TB, so around 16 billion gigabytes

[raw bramble]

Exabyte?

[half pewter]

I think sending you into a library like fastapi before you're comfortable with data types and the like might not be a great idea. Using a library like FastAPI should not be your first step.

[inland karma]

yeah

[slow rivet]

Basically just smart ways of encoding the same information, for example you might store something that means "repeat this 10 times" instead of storing the raw repeating bytes etc

[polar vessel]

I see, I do need to learn intermediate python like classes, oops, inheritance, decorators and so on I know a bit of sql

[fiery yarrow]

it bothers me intensely that wiki has a note next to every mention there about the prefix size, so they know, but they still use the wrong prefix

[pallid frigate]

dude i aint THAT experienced

[sterile storm]

unfortunately i don't. my way of learning something is pretty reading based. so whatever i learnt didnt come from a single structured course or a video.

[jade timber]

Oh okay now I get it

[inland karma]

yeah, tripps everyone up 😄

[fiery yarrow]

the page for ext4 says 16-256 TiB with no note

[polar vessel]

I see, can you please suggest anything regarding this ?

[raw bramble]

Oh so is that why some things can get compressed into much smaller sizes than others, because they’re “compiled more efficiently”?

[raw bramble]

TiB is tebibytes right

[polar vessel]

Maybe can you suggest a book paper or video which deeply affected your understanding?

[sweet crow]

What if I dont code for the day and bed rot with my gf instead

[fiery yarrow]

yes, with the 1024-basis

[slow rivet]

Yeah roughly how repeating/pattern following some data is the easier it is to compress. Fully random data is harder to compress

[sweet crow]

Yeah that seems like a better idea , Good night everyone

[raw bramble]

Why not fix it when you see it :P

[raw bramble]

What if you teach your girlfriend to code while you bedrot 🧠🧠

[half pewter]

There's not a great checklist or anything, but you should be able to write some basic code before you jump in to something advanced, I'd also suggest starting with flask. I prefer it personally and suggest it for beginners because it's a bit easier to understand, fastapi hides some of the conceptual work.

[sweet crow]

Interesting idea.....

[fiery yarrow]

because there are wrong people with strong opinions

The SI's imposition of decimalisation on computing is a corruption of computer science, and just because they're besotted with base-10 doesn't give them a right to redefine the units of binary computing

[jagged belfry]

That's a fire take, but I can't say I disagree

[pallid frigate]

aight lang time 🙂

[half pewter]

we have some resources that we often recommend, or there I can suggest some simple projects that will ease you toward a better understanding

[jagged belfry]

a 2.4% reduction to fit "base 10" is pure marketing goobash

[half pewter]

!resources

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[raw bramble]

I don’t think Terabytes, Gigabytes, Megabytes or anything should be used in computing since they are base-10 and not super precise due to that. You can’t just use the prefixes incorrectly like that

[half pewter]

... they're actually base 2

we just round 1024 to 1000

[slow rivet]

No, the 1024 based and 1000 based ones are different units

[raw bramble]

1000 gigabytes in a terabyte

[half pewter]

oh huh, guess I've never paid attention to that

[polar vessel]

Thank you, can you also please suggest maybe 2 projects which helps me to understand better

[half pewter]

could have sworn a gig was 1024

[fiery yarrow]

kilo has meant 1000 for several hundred years (as a prefix, thousandish years for the number), and the binary prefixes came out in 1999

[slow rivet]

That's a gibi

[raw bramble]

Nah there’s 1024 Gibibytes in a Tebibyte

[half pewter]

I start first day beginners with "guess the number between 1 and 10", then from there: rock paper scissors, fizzbuzz, hangman, tic tac toe. They're worth doing even if they sound boring, the actual coding can be pretty stimulating if you're still building confidence

[raw bramble]

I find it really frustrating

[charred tusk]

What's your point?

[inland karma]

why do you find it frustrating?

[half pewter]

I wonder why they dropped the base-2 convention

[raw bramble]

I just get confused all the time and some apps I’ve used show storage in base-2 whereas others use base-10

[fiery yarrow]

kilo is old, meaning it has strongly-established meaning that shouldn't be ignored, and that using stuff deprecated 27 years ago is silly

[inland karma]

it was a sensible idea at the time, that scaled out of sense. it was due to marketing, not tech

[inland karma]

marketing in the early 2000s

[pallid garden]

isnt there a kibi- prefix for 1024?

[inland karma]

because at the time, we hit the 200GB treshhold, and marketing wanted to put 200GB on the box instead of 198.7

or whatever 200GB is in real terms

[raw bramble]

I think GB should mean Gibibyte, and KB to mean Kibibyte. Gigabytes and kilobytes shouldn’t be used commonly

[tame hinge]

Testing something out with an http proxy for example in terms of web apps is infinitely faster if you can throw a addon together with mitmproxy for example then bumbling through various UIs.

[kind thicket]

as long as it doesn't get as bad as the definition of a kilogram or a meter

[inland karma]

or spend the same amount of time fixing it

[pallid garden]

clearly the best choice is to quantify bits in avogadro's number, which is a universal constant

[inland karma]

unless your gold

[fiery yarrow]

...with a precise value that's only about 7 years old

[cobalt flax]

Bro i can append to a file a bunch of times

and then boom the file has that

multiple times

i love file opening

[polar vessel]

Will start with that Thanks a lot 👍 . Start with flask right ?

[half pewter]

programming is sort of a "choose your own adventure" situation but that's what I suggest. Also, don't use AI.

[golden mortar]

Flask isn't easier than FastAPI. The advice is to start with the programming fundamentals before you jump into web servers.

!learn

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[golden mortar]

^ These are all good

[pallid garden]

choose your own adventure, but beware of softlocking yourself by getting trapped in tutorial hell or inflicted with the ailment of dunning-kruger effect by LLMs

[golden mortar]

"You were eaten by a Dunning-Kruger"

[pallid garden]

they break the game balance by making the learning curve super steep down the line

[polar vessel]

Got it will not use AI . Is it bad to ask AI for explanations as well ?

[polar vessel]

Thanks a lot 👍, I did half of CS50 and I will look into other courses as well

[half pewter]

I have a 20 min rule, try to solve for 20 mins before touching ai. Otherwise I find myself switching to autopilot and don't remember shit.

[tame hinge]

You should try to understand stuff without it. It absolutely butchers so many concepts and it will be embarrassing if you follow bad information from it.

[golden mortar]

It's tricky. You have to avoid the trap of becoming overly reliant on it. I would suggest getting input and feedback from multiple sources besides it, like content written by humans, or chatting in this server.

[undone isle]

not rlly your only doing bad if you make it do everything for you but asking for an example is fine

[golden mortar]

Even when it's correct, it can still be harmful, because you can end up in a cycle where you just accept whatever it says without thinking about it, so you end up not really understanding or learning much.

[tame hinge]

You stunt your growth for when it can't help you on something not in its training date.

[bleak creek]

Hey guys, I have a quick question!

[chilly trout]

hm?

[golden mortar]

Or something it just lacks the context to fully grasp.

[polar vessel]

Got it will try to learn up to date software libraries and will not use AI for coding while learning

[slow rivet]

Which is a failure mode of normal sources as well, the danger with ai is really that the answers are specialized for your exact issue. Usually when you find code snippets online you have to understand them enough to adapt them

[tame hinge]

Tangentially I hate when people take messages and run them through ai to understand them, it misses so much important information and leaves so much out.

[golden mortar]

AI is like the guy from Memento. Very smart and capable, but forgets everything you told it on a regular basis.

[tame hinge]

I run mine through for curiosity and it horrifies me.

[polar vessel]

Makes sense similar to pomodoro technique right ?

[polar vessel]

Oh never knew about
Since everyone is saying claude is very good at coding

[tame vapor]

claude is usually better than other AI models is what people say afaik

[tame hinge]

It still produces so much slop if you aren't smart enough to o choose what you keep.

[polar vessel]

♥️ definitely Will do

[golden mortar]

Claude is very good at coding, but it's good at it in a way that's very different from a human.

You have to understand what it's strengths and limitations are in order to use it effectively.

And most people don't.

[half pewter]

I don't think pomodoro accounted for caffeine but something like that. No amount of stimulants will prepare you for some of the obstacles you'll encounter in coding though, sometimes you need help, other times you should take a break.

[polar vessel]

Got it 👍
Will not ask AI for coding while learning

[undone isle]

smart

[bleak creek]

So, I am self-teaching python + doing the coursera Python cert from microsoft.

I am trying to train myself to understand not just how to rinse and repeat projects, but also, how to think about projects that I decided to do. I am only up to learning about while loops so I am not far. However, recently I was trying to build a simple ATM, Create a Pin Checker 3 attempts, Balance Withdraw and Dep, Balance Checker, Exit Button. If 3 attempts pass lock the user out.

And I made a really shitty attempts at it. So I used claude to kindof show me how to structure my code so I can think it through better, however I feel like I cheated myself out of learning and am now just copying the format claude chose to do things in.

Is this good or should I have just tuffed it through and not used claude for where I got stuck

[polar vessel]

Oh yeah, that's true

[tame hinge]

I assure you if you want to you can spend the time to produce better structured code than Claude gave you.

[light ore]

You're right. No amount of caffeine will prepare one for challenges

[bleak creek]

I just don't want to cheat myself out of the value of forcing my braing to think of a solution to a better code structre.

because I asked claude to make it and, it made it look so easy, perhapse had I taken the extra 30 mins I would have arrived at a solution similar

[chilly trout]

i mean you wouldve gained more experience not using ai but i do understand where your coming from and even after a few years experience with coding i still do that at times, but for the sake of learning just use flow charts to plan out your projects

[light ore]

As far as you don't copy paste the code, you've learned a format to use in the future.

[polar vessel]

Oh does it not summarise correctly?

[bleak creek]

I see I am not familiar with flow charts at all. I am at like ground ZERO, I just found out what github was like yesterday so I don't really even know how to begin with most of this, I am just trying to learn lol

[bleak creek]

great point thank you!

[bleak creek]

thank you btw!

[tame hinge]

If you summarize a message containing important information it won't emphasize enough and will leave stuff out in some cases.

[bleak creek]

thank you btw!

[half pewter]

xuL's not wrong but everyone hates flowcharts, would prefer to just grind it out without ai personally

[bleak creek]

I wish i could ss to show you guys how crappy my code was compared to claudes.

[polar vessel]

Makes sense -- one of the reasons to learn indepth 👍

[bleak creek]

It was terrible

[tame hinge]

You also don't need flow charts or anything fancy. If you write good code it'll reflect your thought process and solve problems. Reflecting what you want among other things.

[chilly trout]

i love making flow charts icl, combine it with spotify and its a chill combo

[tame hinge]

Write good functions or classes in the shapes you think you want, pretend they exist, leave them empty, put the flow together in code, then implement them. Name them clearly. You'll get a better result just by playing with shapes.

[polar vessel]

True will adapt as I go on 👍

[bleak creek]

Yeah thats exactly my problem, I think about doing everything in the same block of code, and I sort of try to cram everything and it makes it more confusing, but i noticed claude makes clear seprations and literally just does one piece of the puzzle at a time and it sort of flows.

[golden mortar]

It's not like you have to just learn how to do everything on your own. But if you ask an AI, it might, like in this case, give you too much and remove the friction of learning. I'd suggest you ask for advice in here instead, from humans who can judge how much to reveal to you and how much you should try to figure out on your own.

[tame hinge]

You can easily do that yourself. You just have to simplify and see the tools available in your programming language to do it.

[golden mortar]

AI are trained to be as helpful as possible, and sometimes that means they end up being too helpful.

[bleak creek]

Very good point thank you!

[bleak creek]

gotcha thank you!

[sage grotto]

exec(‘exec(“print(1)”)’)

[light ore]

Are you an expert developer?

[tame hinge]

I highly recommending structuring on your own in response to the pains of your current design, and using ai to implement function bodies or show you how to do stuff to get stuff working, so you could change all of the internal stuff if not sure and keep the rest the same.

[bleak creek]

no lol, just starting out

[bleak creek]

Ahh i see, this is good thank you

[tame hinge]

But I also highly recommend breaking it down to focus on the details yourself. You can write wayyy better code other people can understand and actually solve problems so other ppl don't have to take much time to understand them. Using code as communication.

[bleak creek]

exactly

this was all good advice, thank you everyone

[light ore]

Then take your time and learn. You code look messy, that's how a beginner code should be. Mine might be worst than yours, so just learn and stop beating yourself

[bleak creek]

very true, awesome, thank you for this

[polar vessel]

That is a good idea but won't we forget which class we need to fill and so on as the number of files, services grow ?

[tame hinge]

If you make it flow well enough, I don't think so. You get to feel the pain as you work with it and make stuff easier to navigate for yourself and other people. Yourself an hour or a week from now is like another person. And If stuff is named clearly and simple and stuff is modular you can focus on pieces and surrounding ones in isolation and the complexity doesn't explode that much.

[native coyote]

guys

gemini knows what highschool I went to 💀

how can I remove this

[tame hinge]

Did you say it in another conversation you have stored with it?

[polar vessel]

Got it, thanks a lot

[native coyote]

nope, if I go into an private tab and then search gemini and type my full name in chat it says who I am and my school information

[polar vessel]

I think it should be in personalization mode - you can try and adjust the settings

[tame hinge]

Uhhh, that's more of an issue with your information being on the Internet I think than Gemini. It's probably pulling from search results. Go through the results yourself and go find where maybe.

[native coyote]

ok

[inland karma]

you can share personal info from your logged in user. if i asked gemmini it will not know that info

[native coyote]

ohh ok

should I try it with my dads computer and see if it says my info

[inland karma]

you can just open an incognito tab

[hybrid nebula]

oh I plan on working in C

[inland karma]

most people here are new to python, but a decent amount of professionals tend to talk alot here

[hybrid nebula]

how should I best expose shader storage buffer objects and uniform buffer objects to APL?

[quartz fulcrum]

do i count to new?

[inland karma]

not at all, you have been here consitantly for many many days now

[tame hinge]

Python is a fun language to talk about.

[quartz fulcrum]

many days..lol.ok

[inland karma]

and you have houndreds if not thousands of messages

[quartz fulcrum]

ty ty...😆

[inland karma]

in fact, lets count

[hybrid nebula]

3470 messages

[civic moth]

can someone help me please

[inland karma]

what do you need help with?

[quartz fulcrum]

ey, thank you for showing...i am close to pro

[hybrid nebula]

please ask your question such that it can be answered

[azure pine]

Give the full context ,

[quartz fulcrum]

can you show yours?

data

[inland karma]

ssure, but i dont have access to it all anymore, so keep that in mind. admins have access to many other channels, and i was an admin for many years

[hybrid nebula]

347988 messages visible to us mortals

[azure pine]

226,635

[inland karma]

probably 100k more messages

nah.. half that

[quartz fulcrum]

soo much money in your bank well that doesnt sound good

[inland karma]

you can also use discord search to see

[hybrid nebula]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval message
eivl's first publicly accessible message

[inland karma]

yeah, i used to run the other python discord server

and we merged the two together

[hybrid nebula]

there was another?

[inland karma]

yeah, but lost to history at this time

[quartz fulcrum]

Memories

[inland karma]

Do you even python it was called

[hybrid nebula]

where? do you know how expensive those have gotten in 2026?

[quartz fulcrum]

funny!

[quartz fulcrum]

were you an admin there?

[inland karma]

yeah

[proud escarp]

hey, i have a question regarding tests with fastapi
https://fastapi.tiangolo.com/tutorial/testing/

right now i have this test where im creating an entry to my Item table
the way my tests are setup is that im overriding my session dependency to use an in-memory database.. or at least that's what i inteded but what seems to be happening is that a memory file gets created at the root of my project folder, but okay
https://github.com/blankRiot96/hypo-inventory-api/blob/main/tests/api/v1/test_inventory.py#L13

my question is how do i isolate tests? i mean, let's say i have another test where i create a different item. i dont want to have to think about how my other tests have modified the database... or is that just how it's usually done?
also how do i do a cleanup Path("memory").unlink() after the tests are finished running in pytest

[edgy kraken]

tests/api/v1/test_inventory.py line 13

router.dependency_overrides[get_session] = get_test_session```

[proud escarp]

router is the FastAPI instance by the way. usually i see people naming it app

https://github.com/blankRiot96/hypo-inventory-api/blob/main/src/app/core/__init__.py#L3

[edgy kraken]

src/app/core/__init__.py line 3

router = FastAPI()```

[golden mortar]

You can create a fresh in-memory database for each test case

That's how you'd normally do it for most tests

[fiery yarrow]

this is a rather cursed question, but alas:
should #-type comments be broken at column 72 (a la docstrings), or when regular code is?

[raw bramble]

Does this count as the official Python discord server?

[reef turtle]

i have a discord auto msg self bot can i make other people use it through a command without seeing the source in my discord server

[reef turtle]

probably

[inland karma]

no, its not offiicial

its community run

[golden mortar]

No, we're not representing the PSF

[inland karma]

its not run by PSF

[raw bramble]

So it’s the unofficial “official” Python discord server?

[inland karma]

we are recognized by the PSF though @raw bramble

[reef turtle]

can anyone answer me please i need help

[raw bramble]

Oh okay. Paris

[inland karma]

do you know what self bot means?

[golden mortar]

It's basically like, the PSF approves of the server, but does not back it and does not take responsibility for it

[fiery yarrow]

i'm considering reproducing a significant portion of the explanation of the current Easter algorithm to help with understanding the purpose of the original mathematician-style variable names

[proud escarp]

i try to, but also with word wrapping it's not as useful to me

[fiery yarrow]

i might be able to give some decent names, but how tf am i supposed to abbreviate

and by (7) we have enough to determine l, a number between 0 and 6 inclusive which is one less than the number of days we will have to wait before there is a Sunday which is definitely after the full moon.

[proud escarp]

hm i need to look into how to do this. it sounds like the right way to do it, but im also concerned about performance

eh, ill be concerned about performance later

[thorny raft]

hi

[golden mortar]

An in-memory db is generally very cheap performance-wise.

[reef turtle]

hello can someone help me please can i allow specific people to use my discord self bot without seeing the source

[brisk gazelle]

!rule 5 🙂

[edgy kraken]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[brisk gazelle]

Sorry.

[reef turtle]

nerd

[kind thicket]

yeah, most of us are nerds. Thanks!

[rare gazelle]

yield from y is basically for x in y: yield x?

[reef turtle]

not tuff

[brisk gazelle]

If Discord got the idea in their heads that we were helping people selfbot, which is against their TOS and are, in my view, irrationally panty twisted about it, they would shut us down.

[rare gazelle]

or is it for x in list(y): yield x

is it lazy or not is the question basically

[kind thicket]

<@&831776746206265384> came to ask about prohibited topics and is seething about being reminded of rules .See #python-discussion message

[reef turtle]

who is 'us'

[proud escarp]

it is lazy

[reef turtle]

https://giphy.com/gifs/team-lopeszx123-bro-thinks-he-is-on-the-hExBrewkSiVeBcVTBO

[brisk gazelle]

Python Discord.

[reef turtle]

bro thinks hes a part of the team

[gaunt badge]

!mute 1320499527656013826 You will need to reread our rules. Self-bots violate Discord's ToS and so we can't help you with them.
Also, don't be rude.

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @reef turtle until <t:1777285542:f> (1 hour).

[rare gazelle]

👍

so it doesn't consume y first

it yields from y lazily

[inland karma]

yield from exhausts another generator

[rare gazelle]

at the first yield?

or lazily

[inland karma]

im not sure why you phrase it like that.

[dire flicker]

hello

[rare gazelle]

i dont know how i can phrase it better

i pretty much gave examples as well

[quartz fulcrum]

balances need to be zero or higher, and should not be directly settable.
does it mean i have to create a setter?

[rare gazelle]

^

[rare gazelle]

vs ^

[inland karma]

its not using a list

it exhausts the generator

[rare gazelle]

is it consuming y then yielding

its an example

of consuming or not consuming

[pine ginkgo]

Guys what's the point of set {} one not the function

[floral terrace]

a dict?

[pine ginkgo]

Set

Dict but without key and value pair

[floral terrace]

{} alone is a dict, set() is a set

[inland karma]

thats a set, are you asking about what you use them for?

[pine ginkgo]

Yeah

[runic flower]

{} is an empty dict, an empty set is set()

[inland karma]

it is an unorderd collection of unique elements

[pine ginkgo]

So basically just set()?

[quartz fulcrum]

in it the searching is o(1)

ig

[pine ginkgo]

Ic

[inland karma]

if you yield from y then y will be consumed, and the full thing will be yielded back to you

[rare gazelle]

the question was if it consumes it on the first time it yields

if it consumes y then yielding its items

or yielding them lazily

[inland karma]

thats why the term exhaust is better, yes that means it consumes it all first

[rare gazelle]

no its not true i just tested it

def a():
    cnt = 0
    while True:
        yield cnt
        cnt += 1
        
def b():
    yield from a()
    
    
for c, _ in zip(b(), range(100)):
    print(c)

if it'd consume all of a() first it'd never be able to yield

(named a twice, worked though somehow lol, since b's call was before a inside the loop's creation)

[small tinsel]

why doesn't

from decimal import Decimal

x = Decimal("0.1") + Decimal("0.2")
y = Decimal("0.3")

z = Decimal(0.1) + Decimal(0.2)
w = Decimal(0.3)

print(x == y, z == w)
``` work?

[proud escarp]

got it working
https://github.com/blankRiot96/hypo-inventory-api/blob/main/tests/conftest.py

[civic moth]

How is that gonna work bruh

[gaunt badge]

Because Decimal(0.3) is the decimal fraction of the float closest to 0.3

[mint quest]

how does yield from foo() work and what is the lazy and consuming things you guys are talking about? I'm interested but I don't know about this concept

[gaunt badge]

!e

from decimal import *
print(Decimal(0.3))

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

0.299999999999999988897769753748434595763683319091796875

[rare gazelle]

you know what yield is?

[mint quest]

yep

[inland karma]

the implementation parts is interested, because it is not a simple problem to solve. it uses send and throw to control the sub generator.

[mint quest]

I know it pretty much for generators

[inland karma]

if we are mixing terms, then i would add that it is an lazy exhaust, not an eager exhaust

[mint quest]

like:

def foo():
    x = 1
    while True:
        yield x
        x+= x

[rare gazelle]

so the question was if in yield from y the entirety of y gets consumed before yielding its items, and its actually lazy, means that it consumes 1 item at a time from y, on each time you're trying to get an item

[rare gazelle]

interesting so you looked into the internals...

[mint quest]

Oohhh, thank you

[inland karma]

i wrote my own yield from before yield from was invented, it was very problematic at the time

[rare gazelle]

i see... a lazy exhaust, never heard that term, makes sense though

[pliant wave]

hello

[rare gazelle]

in python?

how you did it thats interesting

[rare gazelle]

no problem

[quartz fulcrum]

what error the interpreter gives when the sign goes to negative

value error?

[rare gazelle]

hello there :)

[pliant wave]

hi

hru

[brisk gazelle]

In what context? Negative values are not inherently exception worthy.

[quartz fulcrum]

idk how to explain

[brisk gazelle]

Though were a function expecting a numeric object such as a float or int and also expecting positive, then yes, ValueError would be an appropriate exception to raise.

The type would be correct, but the value would not.

[rare gazelle]

i'm good, thanks, welcome to the server!

[quartz fulcrum]

but i want to raise an error when amount goes to negative

[brisk gazelle]

ValueError would be appropriate.

[quartz fulcrum]

okay

[floral terrace]

I feel like this is a use-case for the walrus operator but maybe I'm not so sure

[brisk gazelle]

You could do py raise ValueError("Value must be positive.")

[civic moth]

Hi im an amateur is it possible to give commands to my discord bot then it gives me placeholder which I fill up then it automatically sends those stuff to another channel for example I used a command, it gave me 5 placeholders let’s just say I filled them all with “hi” then the bot sends hi hi hi hi hi to another channel of my choice (sorry for my bad English)

[mint quest]

can you give like an example by chance?

[pliant wave]

prob

[civic moth]

How?

[pliant wave]

idk

[mint quest]

you need discord.form

[civic moth]

What is that

[floral terrace]

just a hunch : ). I usually don't even think about using the walrus operator lol

[finite sigil]

I am having lots of issues with python's module finding mechanism
When I deployed my code in gogle cloud compute engine

What's the standard practice for importing ? so no errors

[brisk gazelle]

It's all about use case. The right tool for a given tusk.

[mint quest]

basically a custom screen where you can write info and then send it, it's used for applications for moderators and so on

[civic moth]

Oh, how do I use it? Sorry for the trouble

[floral terrace]

iirc, the walrus operator sparks controversy within the python community

it's anti-pythonic IG

[mint quest]

let me look it up, create a help thread in #1035199133436354600

and ping me there

[brisk gazelle]

It is an uneccesary thing, but a thing that allows for some very concise things that would otherwise take up a few lines.

[civic moth]

Alright

[rare gazelle]

guys, sort of a naming question
if you use a deque for a stack (for FIFO), you name is queue or stack

[lusty totem]

But then wouldn't the stack automatically become a Queue?

[rare gazelle]

technically yes i guess

[hallow umbra]

My first step to enter the master's admission at Kyiv Polytechnic Institute is done! ✅

[rare gazelle]

i normally use deque for popleft, for FIFO, and name it stack
but i'm not sure, maybe its a queue

i mean, technically its a queue...

[brisk gazelle]

If it's LIFO, it's a stack. If it's FIFO/LILO it's a queue. Is that right?

[quartz fulcrum]

@property
    def balance(self):
        if self._balance < 0:
            raise ValueError("Balance should be 0 or higher.")
        else:
            return self._balance

    def deposit(self, amount):
       return self._balance + amount

    def withdraw(self, amount):
        return self._balance - amount

its not working

[rare gazelle]

umm... so you say a stack is only LIFO?

[brisk gazelle]

Unless you're mid or bottom dealing.

[rare gazelle]

what if you mid or bottom dealing but also fifo

[sweet crow]

I cast awareness of wasting time on phone

[brisk gazelle]

In a stack or heap, the last thing you push to it should then be the first thing you pop from it.

In a queue, the last thing you push should be the last thing that gets popped / the first thing you push should be the first thing that gets popped.

In a deque, you can push and pop to/from either end.

[rare gazelle]

fair i guess

[brisk gazelle]

I'm open to being corrected.

It isn't strictly my area.

This is just what my understanding is.

[rare gazelle]

i think at least in the fifo case u're right, calling it a stack feels weird

so say you use a deque and do popleft, calling it a queue instead of stack is more accurate i guess

queue = deque() in other words

[brisk gazelle]

import collections
deque = collections.deque()```

[little roost]

I'm so confused what were talking about here I've literally just joined this server

[rare gazelle]

if u use it as a queue i think naming it as queue is more accurate

[brisk gazelle]

Sequential data structures.

[rare gazelle]

welcome to the server, we talking about naming issues you could say, of variabbles

semantics

for reference: until now i always named it stack (but i think naming a queue stack is a bit weird)

[azure pine]

today i started part 2 of automate the boring stuff , and start reading the regex chapter , after reading 10 pages , my head is hurting ...

[rare gazelle]

how many parts are there

[little roost]

Depends what exactly your building, I managed to build my own website & other discord bots.. So I've got quite the experience for coding

[little roost]

Thank you!!

[rare gazelle]

😁

[azure pine]

2 parts , part 1 : basic python , part2: practical stuff..

[rare gazelle]

i see, you're half way done then

[little roost]

I'm so unsure am I allowed to send my website link here?

[brisk gazelle]

For what purpose?

[little roost]

Or even showcase the discord bots that I have created

[brisk gazelle]

#1468524576479641744

[little roost]

Unsure perhaps showcasing or for people to check it out & give feedback 🤷

[azure pine]

i just speed read the part1.. for me real python start after part2 , where i dont anything XD.

[rare gazelle]

take it easy i guess, no need for your head to hurt badly, take breaks, take your time with it

[finite sigil]

What's pyproject.toml or setup py ?

[tall zephyr]

Hey, is there channel where someone is hiring python dev?

[wise imp]

no, this is not a server for that kind of thing

[azure pine]

yeah will do .

[inland karma]

!unmute 1477177354387198062

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: pardoned infraction timeout for @little roost.

[inland karma]

dont paste newlines like that, use our paste service @little roost

!paste

[edgy kraken]

Pasting large amounts of code

So that everyone can easily read your code, you can paste it in this website:
https://paste.pythondiscord.com/

After pasting your code, save it by clicking the Paste! button in the bottom left, or by pressing CTRL + S. After doing that, you will be navigated to the new paste's page. Copy the URL and post it here so others can see it.

[little roost]

Wasn't aware of that existed but also didn't know you can't type a few lines of code

[inland karma]

our system wants to mute spammers, not people that accidently paste to much "code"

[bronze dragon]

111 is not a few
Pasting a huge chunk of code into chat is disruptive, which is why we have the paste service

[little roost]

That's understandable however there is specific code that can detect different types between spammers & people sharing specific code

[little roost]

Might seem a lot but I had spaced it out so that 111 wasn't all code it was a mixture of words & code

[bronze dragon]

That doesn't actually matter. A message that large is disruptive regardless of whether it's code or prose.

[brisk gazelle]

But no damage done in either camp, right? 😁

Speaking of camp, hi!

It's me.

[little roost]

The channel name is “ python discussion ” so I had thought it would of been allowed

[bronze dragon]

Well, use the paste service from next time.

[opal gull]

you quoted the word "code"

is it because you think javascript isnt real code :P

[quartz fulcrum]

can anyone please tell me how to create an empty dict in a class

[silver plover]

If plain class, define it in your init method

[quartz fulcrum]

ok

do i need to write self with this

?

[bronze dragon]

If you want it to be an attribute on the instance, yes

[quartz fulcrum]

i want to save all the transactions

with its id

[tame vapor]

try it without writing self and see if it gets saved or not

[inland karma]

not deliberatly, but yes... lets assume it was 😄

[inland karma]

self.mydict = {} in your init

name it something better than mydict

ahh.. .transactions.. thats a good name for it

[quartz fulcrum]

should i follow the same if i have to record everyone's id in one dict

[inland karma]

yes

[quartz fulcrum]

ok

[inland karma]

you are encapsulating data in your class

[silver plover]

By 'everyone' do you mean: you want all instances of the class to modify the same dict? Or one dict per instance?

[quartz fulcrum]

the first

[inland karma]

then you add it to the class as a class attribute

class Account:
    transations = {}

[quartz fulcrum]

ok

[brisk gazelle]

Aha, the Rincewindian dialect.

[inland karma]

that made me very happy to read.. if you know you know

[quartz fulcrum]

i am not 42

[inland karma]

still a good number

[quartz fulcrum]

haha ok

[inland karma]

.wa meaning of life

[verbal wedge]

Wolfram Alpha

View original for a bigger picture.

[quartz fulcrum]

that is also the age when people suffer mid life crisis...not a positive thing, but i heard that

[wise imp]

mildly unrelated, but the way you can create a mutable object in Java in "class" scope and it's per instance (as long as it's not static), irks me

[quartz fulcrum]

but i get you

[slow rivet]

theres a million things about java that irks me.
(Recently realized List can be immutable which is just like, honestly for being the "oop lang" some of the inherithence chains are really strange)

like would having a ImmutableList base interface be too hard?

[gleaming knoll]

based wolfram alpha

[golden mortar]

There are widely used libraries like Guava which supply such types.

[inland karma]

we should get a Rincwind duck emoji

[brisk gazelle]

[wise imp]

theres a million things about java that irks me.
I like to say that "I hated java before, but now that I have had to use it, I... hate it even more"

[slow rivet]

right, the issue is less that I want a type that ensures immutable list, and more that I want a type that ensures it is mutable

[inland karma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTqkq6s-FhM

[golden mortar]

Then you can just use a concrete type, no?

Like ArrayList or something

[brisk gazelle]

Hex would be on point, but...ehh...

[inland karma]

rip sir Terry

[slow rivet]

I suppose so, and its what I am doing now. Just a really annoying footgun

like if a interface has some methods, I would assume most implementations would well implement them.

[brisk gazelle]

The Duck Man is a thing.

[golden mortar]

I suppose? I don't recall running into issues with it, personally. Maybe it could be problematic in some contexts.

[slow rivet]

well if you write a method taking a List and expect to be able to modify it

or expect to be able to modify a list returned from a method, etc.

[golden mortar]

Hm, yeah, but hopefully you wrote a test that executes the method so it blows up before you even merge your PR.

And then you learn you can't do that with List.

[slow rivet]

yeah I noticed because I used List.of in my tests which turns out in immutable, if my tests instead had passed an ArrayList I would have never discovered it

[golden mortar]

I guess it's a bit unclear and subtle, which is a fair criticism.

[hybrid nebula]

hmmm...
why do we write assignment like x = y + 1?

wouldn't y + 1 = x make more sense?

[slow rivet]

yeah and like the List docs do call it out, so its not like its hidden.
more so that I assumed a List interface with a .add method would you know required .add to be implemented so I didnt read the docs too closely

[rare gazelle]

no

[wise imp]

tbf, it's kind of like collections.abc.Sequence in that regard

[rare gazelle]

you write in math 5 + 1 = x or x = 5 + 1

[hybrid nebula]

1. both are correct
2. programming is not math

[inland karma]

to mirror math notation, earlier languages did it first and we are stuck with it

[hybrid nebula]

3. y + 1 = x more closely resembles the order in which things are done by the computer

[rare gazelle]

thats where it originates i suppose, and its not about correct vs incorrect, its about which option is chosen

[slow rivet]

that doesnt contain any of the mutation methods tho does it?

[wise imp]

mmm, true (probably)

[slow rivet]

like python has MutableSequence

[wise imp]

yes (though arguably, that's not very obvious)

[slow rivet]

at least you can more safely assume that something type hinted as MutableSequence will allow mutation

[wise imp]

that, certainly, yeah

I'll have to keep this in mind for myself, lol

List being immutable in Java

[golden mortar]

It isn't, though.

It has mutation methods and whether they work or not depends on the implementation.

[gleaming knoll]

x <- y + 1

[inland karma]

Fortran and Cobol that did it first?

[hybrid nebula]

y + 1 -> x

[gleaming knoll]

yeah thats good too

"my language ™" would probally do both

[crisp jay]

Nah

[gleaming knoll]

oh also let x = y + 1, thats pretty unambigious too

[bronze dragon]

x < (-y + 1) 🥀

[wise imp]

no, I mean, I sometimes also use List.of, which then apparently will return an implementation that doesn't support those methods

[craggy trench]

true

python does the expression first and then left-to-right assignment

[gleaming knoll]

for iterable -> assignment_target: when

[craggy trench]

if the expression was at the left, it would've been evaluated in perfect left-to-right order

[golden mortar]

Ah, so you mean "List.of" returns an immutable instance. List is an interface, so List.of doesn't create a concrete List instance.

[crisp jay]

for <iter> as <variable>:

[gleaming knoll]

i dont think as makes sense, as would just be single assignment, like, aliasing

[crisp jay]

Sooooo for <iter> part called <variable>:

[gleaming knoll]

for x in xs reads good but it has the same problem as x = y + 1

[craggy trench]

for <iter>'s <target>:

[crisp jay]

Wdym x = y + 1 has a problem

[gleaming knoll]

scroll above

[crisp jay]

Idk the math notation makes more sense

[gleaming knoll]

in math equality is commutative. assignment is not just equality

[hybrid nebula]

math doesn't have a concept of assignment

[molten plover]

How possible is it to find a CIS-speaking person here to learn Python?

[gleaming knoll]

there are atleast a few russian people here

[bronze dragon]

CIS?

[gleaming knoll]

Commonwealth [of] Independent States

[molten plover]

yeah

[gleaming knoll]

though im not sure how would "CIS-speaking" in general be a useful metric
knowing russian does not mean knowing like, belarusian, or kazakh

[molten plover]

Why does the translator use this specific word)

[gleaming knoll]

you should really consider learning english if you want to learn programming
most resources and communities are in english

[molten plover]

I understand, I have trouble even with technical English

[gleaming knoll]

i got somewhat "lucky" in that sense and learned english in childhood before doing any programming, so when i started learning programming i didnt need to also learn english

[molten plover]

but the hopes of getting a job with a native language are currently outweighed by the desire to devote sufficient time to learning English

[rare gazelle]

there are programmers who dont know english though, but its better to know english of course

(i know some that their english is pretty bad)

[brisk gazelle]

The inclusivist in me rails at English being a requirement of programming, but such is the lay of the land.

[rare gazelle]

i wouldn't say a requirement but that it helps much i guess

[bronze dragon]

Some non-English languages have it way easier than others too lol
I have never seen documentation translated into either of the two other languages I speak, but I see translations into Mandarin all the time

[gleaming knoll]

what about programming language diagnostics being translated

i read' some of pyright's ones in russian that fix was working on and it was so weird honestly

[wise imp]

well, yeah, it's a bit of a mystery to me what List.of even creates, but whatever it is, it does not support mutation operations (according to Viv)

[golden mortar]

That's correct

[silver plover]

List.of just returns an immutable list... the list structure raises. It's kinda clunky to me, but it replaced some workarounds (third party) that we'd use before.

(workarounds like http://guava.dev/releases/20.0/api/docs/com/google/common/collect/ImmutableList.html)

[wise imp]

maybe this is the missing (homogeneous) Tuple I have been looking for 👀

[brisk gazelle]

Hummus genius. A spread for every snack.

[gleaming knoll]

maybe if i english was my native language i would also find the programming english lingo weird
but since thats basically the english i learned it feels just fine to me

i prefer russian when watching anime though, i find it softer
movies in english though, russian dubs are weird. i guess they dont get onto the realistic image as well as they do for drawn animations

[half pewter]

dubbing has gotten a lot of funding in the last 2 decades over here

20 years ago you had to watch with subs, anime was still a bit of a cult scene

[gleaming knoll]

kinda funny to hear entirely different characters in different animes voiced by the same person though

[half pewter]

takes me back heh, conversation bout to be redirected though

[gleaming knoll]

what file descriptor is "conversation"?

its both stdin and stdout. hmh. weird stuff

[bronze dragon]

tty0

[sudden basin]

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1498296381918679110

[sudden basin]

Can i get some opinions its my first.

[spice hill]

Непоследовательное использование вкладок и пробелов в отступах

I still haven't recovered from this one

[robust ledge]

smh, mods and rule 4

[spice hill]

smh that's a quote 😔

[charred tusk]

“Inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation.”

[spice hill]

(it's a quote from the pyright localization strings)

[charred tusk]

SMH my head I thought it was gonna be a quote from some famous person

[spice hill]

(they translated a lot of the error messages poorly in funny ways)

[inland karma]

ahh...

[charred tusk]

Have you tried fixing them?
I think I patched a localization or two years ago

[inland karma]

what would be the english translation of the translatio?

[gleaming knoll]

thats the thing, it translates back perfectly
but in russian it sounds really weird. you would never see that in a real sentence

[inland karma]

yeah, that is fair

[charred tusk]

Literals always sound weird

[raven urchin]

Hello beautiful people!

[charred tusk]

Chat someone thinks I'm beautiful

[robust ledge]

Objection your honor. The defense claims we would never see that in a real sentence. However, we just saw it. In a sentence. Therefore it is real.

[gleaming knoll]

on your pfp are you the human or the dog

[charred tusk]

yes

[robust ledge]

You are.

[spice hill]

The original is "Inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation.", but the Russian translation assumed that "tab" means "a browser tab" and not "tabluation"

[inland karma]

yeah, some details will be lost to translation

[harsh swallow]

Says the catfish smh - using Ringtail pfp when you're Saber!
😛

[gleaming knoll]

well, it could use the word "табуляция" and it would still translate back as "tabs" while being actually correct
i think it was a poor automatic translation

[raven urchin]

Best slime ever

[charred tusk]

That's a very long tab

[spice hill]

The proper English word is "tabulation", tab is a contraction

[gleaming knoll]

im not sure if "непоследовательное" is right either but i dont know what the better word would be
like yeah translates back well but i honestly couldnt decipher what the sentence means if i didnt see the translation beforehand

[spice hill]

I think that's the right translation for inconsistent

this is clearly a ploy to make Russian developers slower at programming

[gleaming knoll]

words are bad

[charred tusk]

Oh wow
I put the word in Google and it no longer triggers automatic translation
Now its giving me an AI overview of the word, but its all in Russian
It also apparently does relate that word to \t

Табуляция — это метод форматирования текста и код (\t), перемещающий курсор на фиксированную позицию (обычно ~8 пробелов или 1,25 см) при нажатии клавиши Tab ↹.

[gleaming knoll]

the topmost result being AI overview by default is so cancer

[raven urchin]

[gilded iron]

Guys wanna know your opinion. What will happen if ai is forbidden?

I can say it's the end of my life, i made so much from it as an entrepreneur. But it will be new opportunities

[spice hill]

forbidden?

[cerulean ravine]

if you want to disable that: https://udm14.com/

[inland karma]

people have been making things for decades without ai

[gleaming knoll]

oh thats nice

[spice hill]

Anyone read the 2nd edition of Designing Data-Intensive Applications yet?

[rugged barn]

I've been trying to get hands on it

[inland karma]

link

[gleaming knoll]

i should use that and filter out a bunch of common slop websites

[spice hill]

https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/designing-data-intensive-applications/9781098119058/

came out this february

[inland karma]

ahh.. no i did not.. but i think i will get that

are you planning on waitiing to hear about it?

[spice hill]

I was thinking of planning on waiting to hear about it

[raven urchin]

[spice hill]

Based on my understanding of how books work, it's supposed to be a replacement of the 1st edition? Not part 2?

[raven urchin]

It depends a lot