python-discussion

[gleaming knoll]

just a reverse notation of ->
a -> b <- a

[manic flare]

Implication but backwards

[raw bramble]

Any other ones then?

[manic flare]

/\ is and, \/ is or

[gleaming knoll]

and ⊻ is the evil twin of or, xor

[wise yarrow]

any other what? binary boolean operators?

[raw bramble]

A ^ B -> C

If A and B, then C?

[manic flare]

Yes

[gleaming knoll]

assuming the usual precedence rules, yes

in a parallel universe it could mean A ^ (B -> C)

[manic flare]

You can use parentheses to change order too

[raw bramble]

A v C <- B

If B, then A or C?
/
A or C, if B

[gleaming knoll]

yeah though <- is rarely used

[raw bramble]

What’s NOT?

[gleaming knoll]

the type a -> b has |b| ^ |a| members (you have an arbitrary choice of b for each a, so its like, b*b*b*b*b)
the type (a, b) has |a| * |b| members (you choose one a and one b)

so (bool, bool) -> bool has 2 ^ (2 * 2) members, 2 ^ 4 = 16
16 binary boolops

[manic flare]

Ngl I forgot order for the logic, can anyone give me a refresher?

[dry yacht]

the... order?

If in doubt, use parentheses?

[manic flare]

Well, I assume it’s either left->right or a specific order of operations

[gleaming knoll]

its a specific order like with algebraic operators, some things come before other things even when written just left to right

parentheses, negation, and, or, implication, equivalence
it matches the "usual" interpretation that you'd arrive at yourself in "trivial" cases

[dry yacht]

yeah, left-to-right, but operators have different precedences (e.g. ∧ binds stronger than v iirc), but yeah, if in doubt just check the precedences again or use parentheses

[gleaming knoll]

like, ¬x ∨ y is obviously (¬x) ∨ y
it would be very weird for it to be otherwise

[gleaming knoll]

array[element=a, size=n] has |a| ^ n possible values btw so (bool, bool) -> bool ~ array[bool; 4] which is like, the truth table of that function
a function is equivalent to its truth table (assuming no side effects)

so "all possible binary boolops" are all 4-bool arrays

[fair heath]

Hello I'm French and I don't know how to speak English too much I write through the translation app so could someone code me a small program that is a SCP library here thank you

[nimble isle]

Vibe sort: sends a request to an AI language model to sort the given array

How good is it?

[gleaming knoll]

only 6 of them seem to be named in a recognizable way

[dry yacht]

As almost always, the answer is: It depends

For most applications this is obviously complete garbage, but if you're sorting by some eccentric metric that's (almost) impossible to really measure, then maybe the LLM could be used to apply a score to each entry, which is then used for sorting using regular sorting methods, or if assigning each entry a separate value is too costly, then just asking it to spit out its top 10s could be helpful, but yeah... LLMs can't be 100% correct, so there will always be mistakes

[inland karma]

what is SCP? and we dont write code for you, we can however help you so you can learn it yourself

[fair heath]

ok

[nimble isle]

I love how you took me seriously with a question about a typically satirical sorting algorithm

[obtuse cobalt]

I wouldn't be surprised if it has O(1/n) consistency

[inland karma]

is it a library to coonnect over ssh?

[nimble isle]

What kind of algorithm runs faster the more items it has?

[full bone]

Ur ai eng?

[arctic phoenix]

troll?

[teal hare]

`import numpy as np
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
from sklearn.linear_model import LinearRegression

x = np.array ([[25], [75], [100], [150], [200], [250], [300], [350]])
y = np.array ([250, 180, 144, 120, 100, 80, 60, 30])
y_temp = np.array ([10, 20, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90])

model = LinearRegression()
temp_model = LinearRegression()
model.fit(x, y)
temp_model.fit(x, y_temp)

while True:
Fps_Test = input("Enter your Resolution or exit for end: ")
if Fps_Test.lower() == 'exit':
print("Bye")
break
test_resulution = int(Fps_Test)
prediction = model.predict([[test_resulution]])
temp_prediction = temp_model.predict([[test_resulution]])
if prediction[0] > 144:
print("you can play on max Graphics")
print(f"your temp is: {temp_prediction[0]:.1f}°C")
elif prediction[0] >= 80:
print("You can play on Medium to High Graphics")
print(f"your temp is: {temp_prediction[0]:.1f}°C")
elif prediction[0] >= 60:
print("You can play on Low Graphics")
print(f"your temp is: {temp_prediction[0]:.1f}°C")
else:
print("Your FPS is so low its unplayable!")
print(f"your temp is: {temp_prediction[0]:.1f}°C")`

still learning spended like 30mins learning the AI things, what should i add to that AI FPS Prediction

[obtuse cobalt]

I meant the consistency of the sort would be O(1/n) ie it gets worse at correctly sorting things the larger the input

[nimble isle]

Oh you said consistency, not time complexity

[gleaming knoll]

well some of them literally dont depend on atleast one of the inputs
so it would be weird to call it a "binary boolop"
like you write a something b but it doesnt use a or b
??? insane
like one of the truth tables is just [False, False, False, False] (and same with True)
those are just constants repeated 2^n times, not really operations
but lambda a, b: False exists indeed. maybe not the most useful function but a function nonetheless

[nimble isle]

That makes sense then

[gleaming knoll]

ok wait i need to cook
16 tables
divide by 2 for duals
8
minus 2 constants
6

6 named boolops
insane
{AND, OR, XOR, NAND, NOR, XNOR}

[vernal owl]

Has anyone heard of the app pydroid?

[dry yacht]

Depending on how you interpret the question: Most, if not all.

For example the total throughput of cycles will increase after a brief time, when the code and data is hot and already cached and when the branch predictor got to understand the program a bit.
If we want to talk about runtime per item, then this would be the case for all algorithms in linear runtime (for the reasons I said in the sentence before) or in better runtime complexities.
If we want to talk about total runtime, then maybe an accurate reverse engineering of some frequencies that were sampled at a specific Herz-rate. If you used a higher Herz-rate, and thus had more signal points to work with, decoding the real signal would be simpler (do note that I assume the lower sampled rate is below the Nyquist rate).

[nimble isle]

I was asking what algorithm has time complexity O(1/n) before realising they said consistency

[wise yarrow]

you can't just divide by 2 for duals 4 of them are self dual

[fierce merlin]

Which level are you?

[wise yarrow]

the two projection ones and xor and its negation

[full bone]

Hmm android py ide

[vernal owl]

Yes

[full bone]

So?

[teal hare]

i dont have a level.. i just started 30mins ago

[inland karma]

do you have a question about it?

[fierce merlin]

What are you building?

[vernal owl]

Yes I want to insert a screenshot to display in matplot lib but idk what to type

[nimble isle]

Random.randint is constant time right? As is O(1) indexing. So random.choice must be O(1) by extension

[inland karma]

maybe start on something a bit simpler?

[dry yacht]

yeah, O(n^(-1))... not sure if that's even possible tbh

[velvet trout]

but it doesn't read like:
a if b and b if a

This makes more sense than just a if and only if a.

When you read it in english, it doesn't.

Bro pulled out the truth table xD

[inland karma]

have you read thhe matplot libs image tutorial page? they have one in their documentation.

[nimble isle]

Isn't O(n^(-1)) identical to O(1/n)? I feel like the latter is clearer

[gleaming knoll]

i dont think a meaningful algorithm can get faster as the input grows

[dry yacht]

yes

[vernal owl]

I'll try

[autumn forge]

imagine an algorithm that takes no time

[gleaming knoll]

the empty algorithm
nop

[velvet trout]

O()

void

[dry yacht]

O(0)

[autumn forge]

def f(): pass

[gleaming knoll]

me when call instruction handling is non 0 cycles

[velvet trout]

What's the most smallest code/way of void/pass in python?

[bronze dragon]

0 probably

[velvet trout]

makes sense

[bronze dragon]

it's a valid statement so it can serve as pass

[dry yacht]

the empty file

[nimble isle]

Anything that does something must be at least O(1)

[velvet trout]

Reminds me of /dev/null

[autumn forge]

right, so do nothing

[nimble isle]

‎

[velvet trout]

"Eat 5star, do nothing."

u200b

[nimble isle]

So nothing is O(0), which is still constant time

[velvet trout]

Chat, how do i make discord text input box render unicode code typed in

\U200b

[nimble isle]

Aha.... ```py
from time import sleep
n = int(input())
sleep(1/n)
print("Finished")

[harsh anchor]

0 is smaller than 1

[autumn forge]

no, O(0) is not the same as O(1)

[stray field]

sleep(n and 1/n)

[autumn forge]

all O(0) functions are also O(1), but the reverse is not true

[nimble isle]

O(0) means no time
O(1) means constant time

[gleaming knoll]

__import__("pyperclip").copy("\u200b")

[nimble isle]

Oh just to avoid 1/0

[steady rain]

!clban 1311047980551503964 upwork scam

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @queen geyser permanently.

[gleaming knoll]

well you can get an "algorithm" of any complexity by doing sleep(f(x)) but thats not really useful
f(x) ∈ O(f(x)) obviously, for any x0 and c=1, |f(x)| <= |f(x)| by rfl f(x) = f(x)

[nimble isle]

Awww I wanted to ping the moderators

[nimble isle]

True, yeah

[dry yacht]

I guess it could work if we assume the runtime of the function is infinite.
Then we could have a function in O(1/n) by doing e.g. this:

def generate_number(n: int):
    i: int = n
  
    while True:
        yield i
        i += n

the larger our input size n, the more numbers we can skip (always n at a time).

I do have to admit, that I have no clue if and how big-O notation is even defined for infinitely running functions, so...

[autumn forge]

watching lambda edit messages is like watching a slow LLM generate output

[wise yarrow]

for programming if something got faster the bigger the input you'd probably just say O(1)
but in math it's much more common to see O(1/n) than O(n)

[nimble isle]

Example?

[velvet trout]

What's that

[gleaming knoll]

if something always gets faster the bigger the input, and computers work in discrete steps (whole number of steps), there must exist a very large input for which it takes 0 steps, so it'd be O(0) even

[gleaming knoll]

pyperclip is a package to interact with the clipboard buffer, copy and paste

[dry yacht]

unless my infinity exploit here #python-discussion message is actually legal

[nimble isle]

Big O notation is not exact

[velvet trout]

Wow thanks! That's pythonic

[wise yarrow]

asymptotic analysis usually
like ψ(z) = ln z + O(1/z)

[stray field]

O(0) still counts as O(1)

0 is constant

[gleaming knoll]

0 <= 1 indeed

[nimble isle]

Can you explain why this is O(1/n)?

[wise yarrow]

maybe that's a bad example the series doesn't converge

[harsh anchor]

0 is less than 1

[dry yacht]

I do have to admit, that I have no clue if and how big-O notation is even defined for infinitely running functions, so...

[stray field]

"But bricks are heavier than feathers"

[gleaming knoll]

because key tastes better than bread

[velvet trout]

Python REPL when typed an expression prints out its str or repr?

[gleaming knoll]

repr

>>> "x"
'x' # quotes are there, so its the repr of a string

[bronze dragon]

repr

[velvet trout]

Cool

[velvet trout]

Makes sense

[gleaming knoll]

though if x is None then it doesnt print None

[velvet trout]

Racist behaviour /jk

[gleaming knoll]

just to not give useless output for "do something" expression-statements

[stray field]

it's just special treatment

None is a VIP customer

[velvet trout]

None deserves a print 😢

[stray field]

We're respecting None's privacy

[gleaming knoll]

imagine

>>> print("x")
x
None

like what

[velvet trout]

Ohh makes sense

[stray field]

Same energy as ```py
def foo():
print("foo")
print(foo())

[undone gazelle]

so vscode is rolling out a really crappy ui theme change to some people using the default theme

here's how to revert the garbage new vscode theme once it rolls out to you:

1. ctrl + shift + p
2. go to Preferences: Color Theme
3. select Dark Modern to go back to the good theming

[stray field]

Or just switch to zed

I've switched search engines for less

[velvet trout]

Or just write your own IDE

[wise yarrow]

not to say it isn't common to see like O(x^3), but stuff like O(1/x^3) is also pretty common
tho usage does differ, since O(x^3) is usually used for limits x -> 0, whereas in cs it's almost exclusively used for limits x -> infty

like Taylor series is another example where it's used around 0

[velvet trout]

Is there a open source ide which is too customizable and no/almost no opinionated?

[surreal knot]

emac

[stray field]

neovim with lazyvim

[velvet trout]

😋

[velvet trout]

lazy import vim

[bronze dragon]

VSCodium

[velvet trout]

Cool

How about made in python?

[gleaming knoll]

GNU Emacs was created by
Richard Stallman as the first program of the GNU Project. Development began in 1984
EMACS LITERALLY 1984

[stray field]

pyIDLE

it comes with python

[gleaming knoll]

https://github.com/tomlin7/biscuit
the developer is a member of this server

[velvet trout]

Predicates python?

[arctic phoenix]

import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
import matplotlib.image as img

reading png image file

im = img.imread('imR.png')

show image

plt.imshow(im)

i think it is not that difficult lol

[gleaming knoll]

predates, yes

[stray field]

Does babi count as an IDE?

!pip babi

[edgy kraken]

babi v1.6.1

a text editor

Released on <t:1745082019:D>.

[crisp jay]

Vi

[velvet trout]

iV

[gleaming knoll]

"too customizable" only applies to emacs

its not even an IDE its a integrate-anything-into-me

[crisp jay]

Emacs is the universe set

[velvet trout]

well it's a bit questionable to agree it coming from an emac fan... What if its a conspiracy theory against other editors

[gleaming knoll]

i dont use emacs btw
though i would if i knew about it before i knew about vim

[velvet trout]

i know you do 😏

[velvet trout]

I see

[gleaming knoll]

maybe i should switch to emacs as a fun summer project

[velvet trout]

I knew it

Hehe

[crisp jay]

Make a C compiler with Lisp

[gleaming knoll]

thats as hard as "make a C compiler"
lisp is a perfectly fine language family to use for all kinds of software

[velvet trout]

How do i read python's grammar?

python.gram ?

[gleaming knoll]

python.gram or the EBNF?

[velvet trout]

python.gram looks scary

EBNF ig

[gleaming knoll]

https://docs.python.org/3/reference/grammar.html ?

[velvet trout]

Thanks

Gotta check if there's something I did not know

[gleaming knoll]

the .gram includes inline C code to generate the AST and do some checks, its what the actual cpython parser is generated from
the EBNF is for humans to read without worrying about implementation details

[velvet trout]

Since i assume it is already advanced enough for what i want to express

[velvet trout]

Oh

in source code, python.gram is actually what it uses for grammar?

[gleaming knoll]

yes https://peps.python.org/pep-0617/

[velvet trout]

Like its the only language it understands?

[shrewd pine]

||I see you desire slowness||

though to be fair...a lot of modern editors are bad in that regard

[velvet trout]

By language, i mean the content used in .gram file

[shrewd pine]

js isn't really doing a better job there

[velvet trout]

','.dotted_as_name+

WOw! Its like ", ".join() !

[gleaming knoll]

kind-of, yeah

[gleaming knoll]

make software great again, make native stuff in languages that provide static information for optimization

[shrewd pine]

meanwhile

irb(main):001> [1, 2, 3]*'-'
=> "1-2-3"

[velvet trout]

??????

[gleaming knoll]

ruby has a lot of cursed stuff doesnt it

the kids on the internet dont hate on it because they just dont know it

[velvet trout]

That thing isn't even rubynic

[gleaming knoll]

js ended up being the scapegoat because the web is so big

[autumn forge]

Ruby is the greatest language of all time

[velvet trout]

Python has a lexer or tokenizer or both?

[gleaming knoll]

those are synonyms

[velvet trout]

Does it interchange the terms?

[velvet trout]

So it doesn't have any single difference?

[gleaming knoll]

nope, no difference

[velvet trout]

Like i want to pick either term and standardize it for my projects. ;-;

[inland karma]

just pick one

[crisp jay]

Haskell

[velvet trout]

Lexer sounds cool

[inland karma]

there you go

[velvet trout]

5 cool letters 🔥

[gleaming knoll]

the stdlib module is called tokenize

!d tokenize

[edgy kraken]

tokenize

Source code: Lib/tokenize.py

The tokenize module provides a lexical scanner for Python source code, implemented in Python. The scanner in this module returns comments as tokens as well, making it useful for implementing “pretty-printers”, including colorizers for on-screen displays.

To simplify token stream handling, all operator and delimiter tokens and Ellipsis are returned using the generic OP token type. The exact type can be determined by checking the exact_type property on the named tuple returned from tokenize.tokenize().

[gleaming knoll]

"provides a lexical scanner"
💀

[inland karma]

and the docs calls it lexical analyzer i think

[gleaming knoll]

even they cant decide
smh
ong
🥀

[velvet trout]

Why not call it lexer or lexinizer (if that's a term)

[inland karma]

https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html

[gleaming knoll]

lexinizer is not a used word

[inland karma]

Next, the lexical analyzer uses the source characters to generate a stream of tokens.

[granite wyvern]

lexer is a common term. lexiniser is a make up work, useful as a sci fci gun, pointed at some text

[velvet trout]

tokenize.tokenize()

lexer.lex() better

[gleaming knoll]

lexical analyzer (also known as the tokenizer)
should be
lexical analyzer (also known as the tokenizer (also known as the lexer))

[velvet trout]

Although, is it valid under English grammar?

Lexinizer (i don't like s, isn't it british)

[granite wyvern]

It's valid English word construction, yes.

[velvet trout]

Emma use it then. Thanks.

[granite wyvern]

The overuse of the zed is a barbaric USAianism.

[velvet trout]

lol

[cerulean ravine]

you mean zee

[velvet trout]

But i find Zed cooler than Zee or S

[granite wyvern]

Another.

[gleaming knoll]

i think -iser is a suffix that means usually means "produces"
like, <x>iser = something that produces <x>s
a tokenizer produces tokens
a lexi..nizer? lexisizer? whatever the word you'd make up, would have to produce.. lexes? what is a single "lex"? lexemes are a thing, though

[velvet trout]

Maybe because i learnt it such that my brain started liking it more over zee.

[autumn forge]

Zed is cool

[velvet trout]

Oh

[velvet trout]

Lexisizer? Lex size? Lmao

[gleaming knoll]

lexemiser maybe
produces lexemes (lexeme ~ token)

[velvet trout]

Lexed

Lets just nuke english

[gleaming knoll]

i agree

[velvet trout]

What's the past form of lex? I know the convention of -ed. Lexed?

[autumn forge]

lexinominator

[cerulean ravine]

leximification

[granite wyvern]

I lex, you lex, they lex. We lexed in the past. We will lex.
She bop.

[velvet trout]

That goes hard

[cerulean ravine]

we will have maybe should have lexed

[gaunt badge]

What is this, lex education?

[next garden]

Lexically speaking…..

[velvet trout]

["Lexically", "speaking", "..."]

[gleaming knoll]

my lexicon is very limited

[gleaming knoll]

like unironically i only know basic words and tech terms
and some mental speak

[velvet trout]

Lexically lexing

[autumn forge]

we are complexifying lexer lexis

[pastel sluice]

comp-lex-ity

[runic wharf]

added this to my game engine cause i can

def tragic_bye_obj(obj):
    print(f"[{obj}]: No! Please No!")
    print(f"[{obj}]: Why would you do this???")
    print(f"[{obj}]: NOOOOOOOO!")
    print(f"{obj} - Lived from 0 to {timer()}")
    delete("player")

[gleaming knoll]

a tragedy in 3|4 acts

[runic wharf]

fixed

def tragic_bye_obj(obj):
    print(f"[{obj}]: No! Please No!")
    print(f"[{obj}]: Why would you do this???")
    print(f"[{obj}]: NOOOOOOOO!")
    print(f"{obj} - Lived from 0 to {timer()}")
    delete(obj)

[velvet trout]

Lexinizer or Lexier ? Which do you recommend

[runic wharf]

[player]: No! Please No!
[player]: Why would you do this???
[player]: NOOOOOOOO!
player - Lived from 0 to 0.226

[autumn forge]

lexer is the best

[gleaming knoll]

only lexer and tokenizer are widely recognized terms
tokenization is a term also used by NLP people
lexing would therefore be more used by pldevs i guess

[autumn forge]

ah, my spellchecker doesn't think it is a real word

[velvet trout]

Oh right

[velvet trout]

We beat spellchecker
Haha

[velvet trout]

You're so smart

[gleaming knoll]

😳 do not consider me a person
do not perceive

[velvet trout]

class Lexer: ...

lexer = Lexer()
lexer.lex() 😋

[gleaming knoll]

ok but what will .lex() return
it wont be list[Lexemes] obviously because thats big

[dry pike]

lambder

[pastel sluice]

class Luthor:

[gleaming knoll]

but if you do tokens then
Tokenizer::tokenize() -> list[Token]
thats 3 words from token- in a row, amazing!

[velvet trout]

Generator[Token]

[velvet trout]

That's currently how it is in my cliargparser's lexer

[runic wharf]

A λambdaBOY!!!! EVERYBODY LAUGH AT HIM!

[velvet trout]

@classmethod
def lex(cls, arguments: Iterable[str]) -> Generator[Token]:

[gleaming knoll]

tokens: list[Token] = tokenizer.tokenize(src)

please end me

[autumn forge]

hopefully list[Token] gets inferred

[velvet trout]

💀

Ayo reaction

Is this the end?

[inland karma]

i wrote a tokenizer using pattern matching a while back

[runic wharf]

i started it

[velvet trout]

Count down....to ten...

[inland karma]

during a pycon presentation about pattern matching when it came out

[mossy sigil]

I want to rule the world

[topaz cedar]

i made a cool BMDECR like array thing but i kind of forgot what all the other stuff did so its not exactly BMDECR

[gleaming knoll]

what is BMDECR

is that like SUBLEQ

[topaz cedar]

bashicu matrix decrease basically

[velvet trout]

I also thought of it but since i needed to perform string operations onto token, i shifted to if constructs.

[gleaming knoll]

enabling reactions was a (good | bad) decision
it certainly was a decision, thats what i can say

[granite wyvern]

rrprint("aji",RR_END)
|aji|──┼┤

[velvet trout]

-1, -2, -3... when

[velvet trout]

An idea.

[inland karma]

the point about the pycon talk was that pattern matching is exceptionally well suited for something like this. do you want me to find the notes and share it?

[gleaming knoll]

i dont think match case is well suited for matching on strings

[inland karma]

depend on how you use it

[velvet trout]

class ArgumentLexer:
    END_OF_OPTIONS: Final[str] = "--"
    EXPLICIT_ARGUMENT_SEPARATOR: Final[str] = "="

    @classmethod
    def lex(cls, arguments: Iterable[str]) -> Generator[Token]:
        end_of_options = False

        for argument in arguments:
            if not end_of_options and argument == cls.END_OF_OPTIONS:
                end_of_options = True
                continue

            if not end_of_options:
                if argument.startswith(OptionPrefix.LONG):
                    prefix = OptionPrefix.LONG
                    body = argument.removeprefix(prefix)
                    name, explicit_argument = cls.extract_option_body_parts(body)

                    yield OptionToken(
                        argument=argument,
                        prefix=prefix,
                        body=body,
                        name=name,
                        explicit_argument=explicit_argument
                    )
                    continue
                elif argument.startswith(OptionPrefix.SHORT):

If i had used match-case construct, it would be an abuse of Structural Pattern Matching.

Ayo what

Why would you say that? 😢

[gleaming knoll]

its good for matching on structures and datatypes
but matching on strings is like.. matching on concrete values

[dry pike]

Somebody gotta do something about this

[inland karma]

!e

from typing import NamedTuple
import re


class Token(NamedTuple):
    type: str
    value: str
    line: int
    column: int

def tokenize(code):
    keywords = {'IF', 'THEN', 'ENDIF', 'FOR', 'NEXT', 'GOSUB', 'RETURN'}
    token_specification = [
        ('NUMBER',   r'\d+(\.\d*)?'),  # Integer or decimal number
        ('ASSIGN',   r':='),           # Assignment operator
        ('END',      r';'),            # Statement terminator
        ('ID',       r'[A-Za-z]+'),    # Identifiers
        ('OP',       r'[+\-*/]'),      # Arithmetic operators
        ('NEWLINE',  r'\n'),           # Line endings
        ('SKIP',     r'[ \t]+'),       # Skip over space and tabs
        ('MISMATCH', r'.'),            # Any other character
    ]
    token_regex = '|'.join('(?P<%s>%s)' % pair for pair in token_specification)
    line_num = 1
    line_start = 0
    for mo in re.finditer(token_regex, code):
        kind = mo.lastgroup
        value = mo.group()
        column = mo.start() - line_start
        match kind:
            case 'NUMBER':
                value = float(value) if '.' in value else int(value)
            case 'ID' if value in keywords:
                kind = value
            case 'NEWLINE':
                line_start = mo.end()
                line_num += 1
                continue
            case 'SKIP':
                continue
            case 'MISMATCH':
                raise RuntimeError(f'{value!r} unexpected on line {line_num}')
        yield Token(kind, value, line_num, column)

statements = '''
    IF quality THEN
        total := total + price * quality;
        tax := price * 0.05;
    ENDIF;
'''

for token in tokenize(statements):
    print(token)

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | Token(type='IF', value='IF', line=2, column=4)
002 | Token(type='ID', value='quality', line=2, column=7)
003 | Token(type='THEN', value='THEN', line=2, column=15)
004 | Token(type='ID', value='total', line=3, column=8)
005 | Token(type='ASSIGN', value=':=', line=3, column=14)
006 | Token(type='ID', value='total', line=3, column=17)
007 | Token(type='OP', value='+', line=3, column=23)
008 | Token(type='ID', value='price', line=3, column=25)
009 | Token(type='OP', value='*', line=3, column=31)
010 | Token(type='ID', value='quality', line=3, column=33)
... (truncated - too many lines)

Full output: https://paste.pythondiscord.com/5HFPWXITKKRQ3ACNWL4BVKVUK4

[velvet trout]

Sure! I would love to read and learn from it.

[dry pike]

Yeah @inland karma can we do something about the reaction spam guy please

[gleaming knoll]

ehh well you're not using match for the actual lexing here

[velvet trout]

Okay now that's an abuse of reaction. It was fun earlier now you're just ...

[inland karma]

yes, where is it today?

[dry pike]

This channel

[inland karma]

@<1471914282521460786> what are you doing?

ermm.. hmmm

[velvet trout]

Exactly! I had to use string methods and certainly it was rather more verbose and brought if guards in case.

[inland karma]

@runic wharf what are you doing?

[gleaming knoll]

fun fact the performance of the match here could be improved by matching on the second letter only
since the set is finite and all strings are atleast of len 2 and the second letter is unique

[velvet trout]

statements = "..." — Reminds me of SQL syntax

[inland karma]

ahh. yes you are right

[bright violet]

Does anyone know what the reason is behind .pth files?

[inland karma]

yes, why do you ask?

[gleaming knoll]

run code at startup, why not

[bright violet]

Wondering if it can be disabled

without harming stuff

[inland karma]

yes, -S

you disable the site module

[velvet trout]

Whats .pth? I forgot i think i have seen this extension

[topaz cedar]

a [2] = a^2

[gleaming knoll]

by default i think its only used for editable installs to add a custom import loader

[bright violet]

that what caused the litellm stuff to broadcast secrets

[topaz cedar]

9 [3] = 9^3

ok this is a really stupid way of calculating exponentiation

[inland karma]

!ban 1471914282521460786 your poor judement in emojo reaction spamming telling someone to shut the fuck up and you gay and then ignoring me when im trying to call it out makes me thing you dont want to be here, so im showing you the door.

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @runic wharf permanently.

[gleaming knoll]

if a is a type and |a| is the number of members of this type, then |a[n]| = |a| ^ n indeed, you're choosing a value of type a n times

[velvet trout]

Does Python use such type of regex for its own identifiers?

[topaz cedar]

no thats not what im talking about . .

[gleaming knoll]

it is

[velvet trout]

|absolute a|

[inland karma]

sorry, i was occupied. the mechanism of this helps you make editable installs and a few other quility to life things in building and distrobution

[topaz cedar]

no it isnt . .

different notation

[inland karma]

i dont know

[gleaming knoll]

its the exact same concept

[inland karma]

it was a very clever use of advanced python features. features not many are aware of.

[bright violet]

I didn't know such a concept was implemented at all in python.

Luckily it was only online for 4 hours

[topaz cedar]

def n_at(n, arr, max_steps=100000000000):
    arr = arr[:]  # copy
    v = 0
    step = 0

    print(f"Step {step}: {arr} | v = {v}")

    while arr and step < max_steps:
        step += 1

        p = arr.pop()  # take last element

        # expand into n copies of (p - 1)
        new_vals = [p - 1] * n

        # count zeros
        for x in new_vals:
            if x == 0:
                v += 1

        # append back
        arr.extend(new_vals)

        # optional: remove negatives to avoid infinite loops
        arr = [x for x in arr if x >= 0]

        print(f"Step {step}: {arr} | v = {v}")

    print("\nFinal Result:")
    print("v =", v)
    print("final array =", arr)


# Example
n = 5
arr = [n]

n_at(n, arr)

[inland karma]

there are many things in python, it mostly has everything you will ever need and more! 😄

[velvet trout]

now i think about it, it allows other langs letters as identifiers which can be alphabets like english do, does it use some type of sheet of unicode or something? Or maybe unicode range points?

[gleaming knoll]

i wrote a pth file once when messing with an even more cursed feature, custom codecs

[inland karma]

i use this for a very special trick when i do my own local development

[gleaming knoll]

there is a giant array of info about each unicode codepoint

[bright violet]

Thanks, this is a nice discord 🙂

[velvet trout]

So it uses codepoints to determine what characters are allowed as identifiers?

[inland karma]

i have promised multiple people to write a blog post about my little python trick/hack.. so ill do that soonish!!! 😄

[gleaming knoll]

all programs use codepoints to do anything with characters, computers fundamentally work with numbers

[velvet trout]

I saw lots of simple examples using regex for showing lexing and all

But i always wondered if in real programming language implementation, do we actually use regex or something more explicit and long than using regex engine?

[velvet trout]

But how python as a programming language determines what characters in identifiers (like variables, class/def names, etc.) to be allowed and what not to be allowed? Since it allows non english characters as alphabets too.

[gleaming knoll]

handwritten ones eventually become easier to make very specific error messages
you could modify the regex to make it work but it would become pretty gnarly

[bright violet]

regex could be bit expensive for lexing

[velvet trout]

Yeah same intuition

[granite wyvern]

str.isidentifier: https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#str.isidentifier
Names (identifiers and keywords): https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#identifiers
Non-ASCII characters in names: https://docs.python.org/3/reference/lexical_analysis.html#lexical-names-nonascii
and that descibes a bunch of Unicode categories used.

[velvet trout]

Yup, that's why i always wondered if real implementation uses regex or something explicit

[velvet trout]

Thanks! Will read this

[gleaming knoll]

regexes are very fast

[bright violet]

When done correctly

[gleaming knoll]

well its not like you can fuck up a tokenization regex, its basically always just LL(1) (as in, each character -> one path for the regex state machine to take)
unless you have a cursed language at which point you wouldnt be writing a regex in the first place

[granite wyvern]

Unless they have expensive backtracking.

[velvet trout]

Do tag me whenever you post!

[granite wyvern]

Tjough did I see someone mention a linear time regexp evaluator recently?

[inland karma]

ill try to remember

[limpid wigeon]

Wi

[velvet trout]

[inland karma]

hi, welcome back!

[limpid wigeon]

How are you doing ❤️

[inland karma]

doing well, prepping a talk for work after the lightllm attack, some guys at work wanted to know how it worked

[gleaming knoll]

i didnt hear about litellm even once until the incident

therefore its a marketing campaign /hj

[velvet trout]

Lmao

[inland karma]

i dont know who is the market for a third party thing to connect to an llm you are already paying for.

[velvet trout]

It was a funny issue tho, like in its comment, all bots were spamming and some people even advertised their rust programs i was like 😭🙏

[inland karma]

yeah, it was very well planned

[gleaming knoll]

cynicism is fun't

[inland karma]

and they did manage to get high level access from people that should know how to use the -S flag

[velvet trout]

Why is it called as -S?

Like it doesn't even take an argument

[inland karma]

python -S

[velvet trout]

Its a boolean flag to no

[inland karma]

it disables the site module

!docs site

[edgy kraken]

site

Source code: Lib/site.py

This module is automatically imported during initialization. The automatic import can be suppressed using the interpreter’s -S option.

Importing this module normally appends site-specific paths to the module search path and adds callables, including help() to the built-in namespace. However, Python startup option -S blocks this and this module can be safely imported with no automatic modifications to the module search path or additions to the builtins. To explicitly trigger the usual site-specific additions, call the main() function...

[velvet trout]

ik it disables site module importation

But capital S doesn't rather seem to say no to import site

-no-s would have made sense

Is it a known convention to have capital X where X is a no/disable for x?

[stone hinge]

Hello

[gleaming knoll]

Is it a known convention to have capital X where X is a no/disable for x?
no

-s     : don't add user site directory to sys.path; also PYTHONNOUSERSITE=x
-S     : don't imply 'import site' on initialization

its "dont" in both cases here, so thats not even the pattern

[velvet trout]

Good

[stone hinge]

I don't know how to program at all, what do you guys recommend?

[velvet trout]

i see

[steel whale]

!slorb

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[gleaming knoll]

!slop is funnier

[velvet trout]

Hi android runtime

[inland karma]

like i said earlier, its common to use a single char for the options and --verbose-words for the more explicit variant

[velvet trout]

Where's iphone runtime

[steel whale]

hello
im on android 17 beta

[velvet trout]

I see.

[stone hinge]

Thank you

[inland karma]

so the single characters can be picked arbitary, but they often are picked based on logic, like S for site and h for help

[gleaming knoll]

gcc does -category[no-]flag

[velvet trout]

Android, add support for python officially so i don't have to learn java or kivi/similar 😋

[velvet trout]

Example?

[nocturne monolith]

would anyone happen to be able to point me in the direction of a good source of info on how to downgrade to an earlier 'no longer supported' version of python?

[velvet trout]

--no-site makes more sense IMO

[steel whale]

iirc android comes with python already

[velvet trout]

Whatt

[steel whale]

i think

[velvet trout]

@grok is this true

[gleaming knoll]

-fstrict-aliasing
-fno-strict-aliasing

[velvet trout]

I don't like appending value to option

[inland karma]

it will not sort correctly

[velvet trout]

What do you mean?

[velvet trout]

Does it support value by space?

[inland karma]

--site and --no-site will not sort next to each other if you have both

[gleaming knoll]

yeah its cursed

[velvet trout]

help msg?

[inland karma]

sure, thats one example, i was more thinking of logically even if you had them next to each other, it would not look connected until you understood both

[velvet trout]

-f=value or -f value is better

[inland karma]

space or tabs for indent? people have opinions and its not self evident that one is better than the other

i use spaces for values

i would never do -f=value

[runic flower]

did you get an answer?
https://www.python.org/downloads/ has all the old versions

[velvet trout]

But without a separator, it feels ambiguous.

[gleaming knoll]

the -f stands for flag

[inland karma]

in fact, if i had a tool like that, i would uninstall it

[inland karma]

not when the rule is, the value comes after, then its never ambigous

[velvet trout]

option=value is used when the value has a '-' as prefix

[gleaming knoll]

nowadays i only see that with --, while - is for flags

[velvet trout]

--count=-4 will be required since --count -4, where -4 will be interpreted by the parser as an option

[inland karma]

i dont mind --count=value

but the parser knows that --count has value next, so -4 will still work

it will just arguably look strange

[velvet trout]

as per my understanding, parsers look at token with startswith("--") -> long option, startswith("-") -> short option

But -4 isn't really an option, if your option optionally takes an argument then its ambiguous for the parser to determine whether the next token with a - prefix is an option token or value for this option

[inland karma]

its your job to make the rules you are going to use

[velvet trout]

Real

[velvet trout]

I see.

[inland karma]

so dont invent problems that can happen because you have not written a solution for an edge case

[velvet trout]

Hm

[inland karma]

i do agree with @gleaming knolls comment, -X for flags, --something-verbose for values

well, my interpretation off the comment

[velvet trout]

I think i used cli programs which use short options with values too

Like -f

short options are easier to type but not so much context in their name.

[granite wyvern]

Are you rolling your own rules, or replicating the getopt (and descendants) rules?
For getopt you say whether an option has an argument in the spec. So you might say (for single character options) "abc:d" meaning -a, -b, -c value, -d.
And you do the same for long options - some may expect an argument and some may not. Like --dry-run (no argument) or --count 4 (has an argument).

[velvet trout]

Not sure about rules, all of my rules are influenced/copied from other parsers. And some of them are tweaked in my implementation to keep stuff deterministic.

[granite wyvern]

Right. Whereas getop and argparse et al have to honour the spec when parsing - you can't infer whether an option has an argument just from the CLI - you also need the spec.

[gleaming knoll]

i made a personal hacky thing in xonsh btw, tool modname loads the modname module (like import modname) and adds its main function as a callable alias (with some hacky args parsing) under name modname, and also adds all tool_<x> functions as x, and x --help does x??
so

echo.py

def main(*args: str):
  print(args)

λ tool echo
Loaded module 'echo'
Tool 'echo' provides: {'echo'}

λ echo --help
def main(*args: str):
    print(*args)

λ echo 1 2
1 2

i just didnt like that source-ing has overhead, and if i just import then i need to call it as a function which is more to type than a cli call

[granite wyvern]

Purely for single letter options (to keep the example small), a getopt spec of abc:d means abc are single letter options and c is a single letter with an arguments.

In turn meaning:
-a -b sets a and b
-ab set a and b
-abc sets a and b and expects a following argument for c
-c 4 is c with argument 4
-c4 is also c with argument 4
-c a is c with argument a
-ca is also c with argument a

None of this is ambiguous if you have the spec to hand during the parse.

[steel whale]

i made the dumbest mistake ever

[granite wyvern]

Unlikely.

[steel whale]

reading from a nullptr

[velvet trout]

1. --count -4
   If option count in spec is defined as optionally-argument taking, then how would you determine the next token -4 is supposed to be its value or not?

--text -prefix
2) lets say --text is argument taking, required, but how would parser determine whether -prefix is a value for --text or another option (may or may not be defined in spec) or the user mistakenly typed it? It has to make guesses.

[steel whale]

i was trying to read from a nullptr

[gleaming knoll]

java.lang.NullPointerException

[steel whale]

which in turn caused a segfault

[jagged nacelle]

Hmmh is there an .py TLD?

[velvet trout]

That's where option=value comes handy 😋

[steel whale]

yes there is

[gleaming knoll]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.py
paraguay

[jagged nacelle]

Do they sell or nah?

[steel whale]

yes

[jagged nacelle]

hm

[steel whale]

but theyre very expensive iirc

[granite wyvern]

getopt doesn't support "optionally argument taking". There's always either no argument expected, or an argument required. With short or long options.

Things like argparse may support more elaborate things.

!rule advert

[edgy kraken]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[frosty oriole]

lmfao

[gleaming knoll]

and why exactly are you advertising by spamming in discord if you're making 3k a day

[jagged nacelle]

Not available in porkbun...

[fervent matrix]

Just tell the scam straight up instead

[granite wyvern]

<@&831776746206265384> ^^

[steel whale]

dm me

[bright shoal]

Do you have a wall of knowledge?

[velvet trout]

Yeah, agreed.

Although i disallow argument-taking option in short option group. They can be technically allowed at end of the short option group and must be optionally-taking-argument, but i find short option groups to be just limited as a non argument taking better

[steel whale]

lets see if youre all bark

[raw bramble]

Where’s the link to your $4,000 course

[velvet trout]

i see. i am into the argparse category.

[slender urchin]

!cleanban 1484472050738266226 scam

[gleaming knoll]

if --text has a required argument, then when you see --text you know you need to take the next token and interpret it as an argument

while idx < len(tokens):
  if tokens[idx] == "--text":
    idx += 1
    arg = tokens[idx]

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @arctic monolith permanently.

[granite wyvern]

Fair. I only use getopt in my CLIs.

[raw bramble]

Computing is so messy :(

[steel whale]

dude why
i was about to get 3k a day

[jagged nacelle]

Awww there is no raw .py, only .com.py, .edu.py, etc

[velvet trout]

But what if user mistakenly forgot to provide it and next token is a legit option but got eatten as an value for text?

[slender urchin]

Tough

[granite wyvern]

Bad luck for the user.

[gleaming knoll]

"what if user pressed nuke instead of not nuke"
well you gotta press the right thing to do the right thing

[raw bramble]

Things might look tidy but under the hood they’re all so messy and held together with the most complicated code ever

[velvet trout]

And the resulting namespace will not be good.

[granite wyvern]

My computer always does exactly what I tell it to do but sometimes I have
trouble finding out what it was that I told it to do.
- Dick Wexelblat [e-mail]

[slender urchin]

At least nukes are protected by the secret code ||000000||

[fervent matrix]

Validate the input?

[velvet trout]

--text --parse-mode HTML

Suppose both can be real text or option

Only = can save here

[granite wyvern]

Hopefully the argument validation will not like the option-consumed-as-an-argument.

[raw bramble]

How convert 0 to 0000 and 14 to 0014 and such

[jagged nacelle]

Pad zeroes at the left, done

[slender urchin]

Fstrings have this build in

[granite wyvern]

f-strings support paddded formatting

[raw bramble]

Programming really isn’t smart is it 😭 it’s just hiding the confusing things (it is smart but it’s not simple)

[granite wyvern]

>>> x = 99
>>> print(f'{x:04d}')
0099

[velvet trout]

If we follow this:

--text="--parse-mode HTML"
Parser will deterministically easily know that this is supposed argument for --text

--text --parse-mode HTML

here it will raise error for not providing argument for --text and will interpret --parse-mode (next token) as a legit option (regardless of being defined or not in spec)

[raw bramble]

Thank you :) :04d ?

[dry yacht]

You can even omit the d

[raw bramble]

What’s this meansung yeah

[granite wyvern]

The 0 means 0 padding. No 0 means space padding.

[granite wyvern]

Aye, old printf habits.

[raw bramble]

And 4 means pad it with 4 0s

And the d?

[nocturne monolith]

lol thanks , Id already figured it out. I was being dumb and kept getting myself directed to the page about the version rather than the actual download. I appreciate the response a bunch though!

[jagged nacelle]

U should learn string formatting

[granite wyvern]

https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatspec

[raw bramble]

Too much to learn, not enough mental capacity to learn it

[inland karma]

take your time

[surreal knot]

stands for "decimal" - which specified that x is an integer

[velvet trout]

What do you mean?

[granite wyvern]

Read the spec (above). Learn the things you commonly use, and look things up when you need something uncommon.

[raw bramble]

Far too stressed about everything and overwhelmed with what I have to learn, so I can’t learn things because all my time is spent stressing about it haha

[gleaming knoll]

decimal

[velvet trout]

And it still can, like str. Its rather a silent bug if i am not wrong

[surreal knot]

thanks

[gleaming knoll]

i unironically use printf in c++
because include iostream adds too much compile time
stupid overly complex template meta programming STL shit

[granite wyvern]

For something like --text, yeah not much validation there.

If it had been --format you might have only accepted valid format names or something.

[raw bramble]

I was confused because I would assume that if it meant decimal, it’d be for floats

[gleaming knoll]

f is for floats

[granite wyvern]

We mean decimal to mean "base 10".
Not "things with a decimal point".

decimal (10), hexadecimal (16), octal (8), binary (2)

[raw bramble]

Ohhhh

[gleaming knoll]

given that d is the format char for decimal
the format char for hex is!!! obviously!!
x. not h. yes

[granite wyvern]

of course

[raw bramble]

that’s silly

[granite wyvern]

!xkcd quartz

[velvet trout]

Yeah and also the parser will then raise an error on HTML since it was supposed to be a value of --format (which got eaten by --text). Or HTML could be taken as an operand and may/maynot error later

[gleaming knoll]

.xkcd 2501

[gleaming knoll]

petition to allow non-staff .xkcd in #python-discussion
sign with a lemon

[granite wyvern]

.xkcd 2501

[verbal wedge]

XKCD comic #2501

How could anyone consider themselves a well-rounded adult without a basic understanding of silicate geochemistry? Silicates are everywhere! It's hard to throw a rock without throwing one!

2021/8/11 - #2501, 'Average Familiarity'

[crisp grail]

Hello

[velvet trout]

I would rather fail fast than be sorry later lmao users gotta learn down some rules xD

[autumn forge]

there are like 10 xkcd comics

[crisp grail]

How can I start teaching python

[granite wyvern]

The #2501 above suggests otherwise.

[gleaming knoll]

this rabbit is not human bro

[dry yacht]

Same. Why should I type

#include <iomanip>
#include <iostream>

int main()
{
    std::cout << std::setfill('0') << std::setw(4) << 44;
}
```when
```cpp
#include <cstdio>

int main() {
    std::printf("%04d", 44);
}
```does the job.

Plus with the `iomanip` you're never sure if the change is sticky or not (because `std::setw` isn't sticky, when all others are iirc)... it's so annoying

[granite wyvern]

Help people here.

[crisp grail]

Okay my bad 😔

Sorry

[gleaming knoll]

teaching or learning?

[crisp grail]

Learning

[granite wyvern]

No, it's fine. You have a read audience of people seeking help here, who want teaching.

[granite wyvern]

Oh

Ask here

[granite wyvern]

!learn

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[autumn forge]

yes, you're right

[gleaming knoll]

you already got somewhat of an answer in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
basically pick any of those 4 amazing resources, work through them, and when you have questions - ask here

[granite wyvern]

I have the book "xkcd volume #0" on a bookshelf right here

[velvet trout]

Chat, do you believe what i am doing is correct or incorrect. 😔 I don't want to think later that i picked wrong decision.

[crisp grail]

This tutorial is good or bad

[autumn forge]

I hope there is a 0th xkcd

[gleaming knoll]

why would we recommend bad tutorials

[velvet trout]

Are we enemies or what.

[gleaming knoll]

i must say that learning is supposed to be hard even with a good resource
its 99% your effort and 1% resource effort

[granite wyvern]

I think provided your parser is rigorous and predictable, and the usage message for your CLI is nice and clear you'll be fine.

[runic flower]

np, glad you figured it out. 🙂

[crisp grail]

Idk

[velvet trout]

I see. Thanks.

[crisp grail]

(My English is probably bad sorry)

[granite wyvern]

Some tutorials are better suited to some people and not others. Find one you fin approachable.

[granite wyvern]

np, many people here with English as a second language.

[gleaming knoll]

its fine i think, atleast all messages so far have been easily understandable
what made you interested in python?

[runic flower]

Mine too, and it's the only language I know.

[crisp grail]

Oh

[velvet trout]

English is hard. Python's english is way easier.

[granite wyvern]

You've been doing a good pretence at Python then.

[craggy mantle]

💀

[crisp grail]

I want to understand python because I want to work in cyber security

[runic flower]

nah, I just write perl and then have chatgpt translate to python
(for those that don't read snark, this was a joke....)

[craggy mantle]

guys how do i install pyautogui?

[granite wyvern]

As if perl can be "translated" to anything else 🙂

[gleaming knoll]

open a terminal, then
py -m pip install pyautogui
[assuming windows]

[craggy mantle]

ty

[velvet trout]

windows doesn't put pip as a command?

[gleaming knoll]

only if you add python/scripts to PATH

[runic flower]

I'll continue to maintain that perl can be well written, perl is a fine language, it's perl developers that are horrible. 🙂

[craggy mantle]

File "c:\Users\*\Desktop\*.py", line 1, in <module> import pyautogui ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'pyautogui'
althogh installed it :/

[velvet trout]

Oh

Another reason why to pick Linux

[granite wyvern]

It's almost always the wrong thing to do, on Windows or others.
The py -m pip (or python -m pip on POSIXy things) runs pip for that particular python. Which often matters.

[gleaming knoll]

if you did py -m pip install pyautogui, then py thing.py should work

[runic flower]

you can probably do py -m pip if pip doesn't work for you.

[craggy mantle]

it doesnt-

[gleaming knoll]

are you sure you are running the code with py thing.py, not some magical run button in vscode?

[craggy mantle]

Yes

yep

[velvet trout]

I just use python and pip at command level. Default common version which i generally use

If i want to target specific version i put that as a suffix on name

python3.12/13/14 pip3.12/13/14

[craggy mantle]

and now
No module named 'win32gui'

[gleaming knoll]

wdym "now"? what did you do that changed it?

[runic flower]

did you set up a venv yet?
you don't have to, but it will certainly make things smoother for you

[craggy mantle]

it always had it but it didnt tell me

[velvet trout]

You need to win 32gui

[craggy mantle]

hm

how?

[gleaming knoll]

im not sure what non-sus program would use win32gui directly rather than as a transitive dependency which would've been installed with the library itself

[velvet trout]

Winning someone's heart isn't that easy

[craggy mantle]

tryna make a popup thingy

[velvet trout]

You gotta be first romantic

[velvet trout]

And that too 32!

[gleaming knoll]

are you using win32gui in your code directly? if so, why?

[runic flower]

there are plenty of gui libraries for python

[craggy mantle]

well which ones

[runic flower]

tk is pretty straight forward, but there are lots of options depending on what you're doing

[velvet trout]

pyautogui

[autumn forge]

tkinter.messagebox is in the standard library

[gleaming knoll]

lots of toptions - the bad english in question

[craggy mantle]

i was also trying to minimize all windows

[willow portal]

where can i learn python please

[craggy mantle]

for no reason

[velvet trout]

!learn

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[craggy mantle]

ok i got it working

[runic flower]

I quite unfortunately never really learned to type properly so I still look at my keyboard while typing. And as I type fast, and if I'm not wearing reading glasses it results in a ton of dumb typos. And then on top of that you add "thinkos" where I will type "write" vs "right" or get a "they're" wrong and I end up editing most of the crap I type.
I'm amazed that I exist in a profession where typing a single character wrong will break your code.

[velvet trout]

😢

[celest breach]

Lol I'm still basically a two finger typer and I've been a software dev for over a decade. It happens

[runic flower]

Sometimes my brain has already moved on to the next word while my fingers are still typing the previous one. 🙂

[velvet trout]

Same

I brain even merged the with with -> withe automatically

For no reasons, probably because of th of with matching with the.

[runic flower]

Anyone see that thing on reddit about reading 900wpm ? I had no problem keeping up with that. But typing? I go tto fast and make mistakes. 🙂

[soft coral]

I used these at some point (~500 bucks), ended up not using it ...

Really difficult to get used to

[velvet trout]

Gloves?

[celest breach]

Power gloves?

[soft coral]

But they were very ergonomic. Glove80 they're called

[velvet trout]

That ain't look like a keyboard

[soft coral]

The cool thing is that you can use both your thumbs for more than just space

[runic flower]

I used this. It was actually great for increasing typing speed. It forced good habits.
But it was terrible for gaming.

[soft coral]

If you train with it, you can be very fast with it. especially all the special chars like brackets and parentheses and stuff

Yeah, it's not for gaming haha

wasd is all messed up

[fierce merlin]

Can anyone tell me when we need to use data types ?

[velvet trout]

Glitching keyboard 😂

[runic flower]

And while it did increase my typing speed (it even helped my speed on regular keyboards) it also kinda sucked having to swap from that to my laptop keyboard. The context switching was terrible.

[soft coral]

What do you mean "use datatypes"?

[soft coral]

Yeah, agreed

I bought them in my vim phase 😛

[fierce merlin]

Like tuple list set and so on

[soft coral]

Well which specifical;ly do you want to know. Why do you think you should use only 1?

[fierce merlin]

When they are useful in the code

[runic flower]

I got mine in the 90s. It even came with a foot pedal you could use for shift or whatever you wanted.

[soft coral]

Jeez, that's hardcore haha

[fierce merlin]

No saying one

Data types

[soft coral]

I mean, they all have their benefits. Sets have a quick look-up, so if you want to check if a collection contains an item, set is much better than list f.e.

[runic flower]

Almost every code will use data. Your question implies you haven't coded much, could you clear up what you're looking for?

[soft coral]

tuples are nice when you are working with something you don't want to mutate, etc.

[raw bramble]

That’s insane, I want to try it but I also want a regular Ortholinear keyboard

Tuples are the worst

[gleaming knoll]

tuples are the best

[fierce merlin]

Data types I've learned them but I don't know when to use them in a real code scenario

[raw bramble]

Dicts are the best

[soft coral]

Everyone uses tuples for returning more than 1 value from a function, so you probably like tuples for that ;P

[raw bramble]

I don’t really know where to use tuples

[raw bramble]

Wait that’s okay to do???

[runic flower]

The 2 major perks were keys were lined up vertically that made going to the next keys easier, and the keys were at a curved depth that meant keys were naturally a "more correct" and consistent distance from your fingers.

[soft coral]

if you do return x, y that's a tuple

[celest breach]

Any time you store a variable you will be storing something of a data type.

[raw bramble]

It feels like a PySin

[gleaming knoll]

you dont "store variables" in python, you make.. variables refer to values
its more like "every value has a type", and "types define the behavior of values when used in operations"

[raw bramble]

1. That’s Ortholinear :D
2. That actually sounds super helpful

[fierce merlin]

None

[raw bramble]

How expensive was it?

[burnt pier]

what is sinful is doing return(x, y)

[celest breach]

Ah okay.

[robust ledge]

I cannot say enough about the comfort of a concave linear key-well.

[runic flower]

I suppose the third perk was the split nature of the keyboard that made it harder for your dominant hand to type keys that your other hand should have been typing. But that's probable true on all split keyboards.

[raw bramble]

I’ve only ever used regular typewriter keyboards >:(

Ortholinear is the only way keyboards should be, no more of this offset

[runic flower]

and dvorak or something right?

[burnt pier]

I think the offset is cute. Ortholinear ones have no character

[celest breach]

How does Python work though if the interpreter can't store the values of variables for later? Can you explain? @gleaming knoll

[craggy mantle]

when i do pip in any way it just says not recognized in cmd prmt

help

[runic flower]

python stores objects, variables are just references to them

[gleaming knoll]

use py -m pip, not pip

[raw bramble]

I am learning to use a modern layout called “Canary”, before then I was learning Colemak

[craggy mantle]

ok

[raw bramble]

I’m not a big fan of Dvorak tbh

[craggy mantle]

but i wanna do pip install

[gleaming knoll]

so do py -m pip install

[craggy mantle]

oo ok

[raw bramble]

You assign a value to a name, or a name to a value?

[craggy mantle]

says [Errno 2] No such file or directory

[gleaming knoll]

assign x to y <-> y = x

[raw bramble]

assign 5 to my_number

assign my_number to 5

Yeah you assign a value to a name, the latter feels wrong

[crisp jay]

What

[runic flower]

I've heard of colemark, but not canary, make sure to report back how it goes. 🙂

[craggy mantle]

hm

[raw bramble]

Also 5 doesn’t store my_number

but my_number stores 5

[crisp jay]

Also why some are called Canary,others Nightly and others Unstable?

[celest breach]

Is that the full error output? What else does it say?

[raw bramble]

I think Canary is great, but will be dreadful for relearning vim motions :P
good thing I don’t really know my vim motions yet 😭

[craggy mantle]

thats it

[raw bramble]

Wdym?

[runic flower]

emacs ftw. 🙂

[gleaming knoll]

what exact command did you write to get this error
and i dont think this is the full error
basically you should provide more info for us to be able to help

[raw bramble]

I will try out emacs some day once I know how to use vim

[craggy mantle]

wait nvm i fixed it

[raw bramble]

Anything is better than nano though

[crisp jay]

Like the latest (but not stable) version of something

[mossy sigil]

FAFO

[gleaming knoll]

thats like a queue
but not

[runic flower]

more accurately, python stores 5 as an object, and lets you make any number of variables that reference it. You can edit or change what the references look at, but the 5 itself is immutable.

[crisp jay]

FILO

[mossy sigil]

Speak English bruh

[gleaming knoll]

хорошо
oops thats russian 😭 my stupid ass

[celest breach]

FIDO (First In, Dog Out)

[raw bramble]

For numbers like 5, does Python not already store them?

[burnt pier]

even ed?

[gleaming knoll]

it does but x = 5 is still referring to the PyLongObject{5}, its not the 5 itself

[runic flower]

emacs is like regex, you can get a lot of utility out of learning 15 mins worth of stuff, but the remaining complexity can be overwhelming if you try to learn it all at once.

[crisp jay]

In python,everything is a Object

[mossy sigil]

Nerd ahh

[crisp jay]

Functions are actually static methods of global

[raw bramble]

I mean that if it’s something like x = 39589284, then Python stores a new object

[raw bramble]

But 5 already exists, doesn’t it?

[runic flower]

the version of python that most people use actually caches some numbers because of how common they are, but that doesn't change the underlying way python stores all data.

[jagged nacelle]

In elixir isn't quite like that

[raw bramble]

Use notepad atp

[mossy sigil]

Is it alright to say the n word on here I’m black btw it’s part of my lingo

[burnt pier]

hmm, won't constants also get inlined?

[runic flower]

#rules

[crisp jay]

[raw bramble]

??????

[celest breach]

Uh...no. Don't do that

[gleaming knoll]

what exactly do you mean by that
constants are created once in the co_consts of the code object they are in, yes, so running the code only makes a new reference to them each time, its not allocating a new integer for that constant

[mossy sigil]

With the ‘a’

[raw bramble]

#rules x2

[celest breach]

Still a modified slur

[mossy sigil]

Damn

[runic flower]

read the #rules and follow them, or the <@&831776746206265384> will help you out.

[burnt pier]

yes, essentially

[mossy sigil]

Y’all are really going to censor a black man

[craggy mantle]

well yea

[celest breach]

Your race doesn't determine your eligibility to follow the rules here.

[raw bramble]

Are you going to follow the rules or no?

[sharp hemlock]

idk I mean, coming from a fellow afro-american I think it's cool

it's just dialect 🤷

[silver plover]

!warn 1321076256955043881 No, its an instant ban. and I don't know why you'd ask in a Python-discussion channel.

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @mossy sigil.

[runic flower]

Alright, I have a website that needs coding, and a dungeon that needs crawling, see you all later!

[mossy sigil]

Why am I being warned

I didn’t even say it

[crisp jay]

Vibe code

[mossy sigil]

wtf

[raw bramble]

Vibe crawl

[mossy sigil]

I guess

[sharp hemlock]

careful bro, f in wtf is a swear!!1!!1

[steady rain]

@mossy sigil send a message to <@&714562188236423278> if you have any questions. You'll be muted if this continues.

[mossy sigil]

I’m here to make friends tf are you on about

[steady rain]

You are definitely allowed to do that.

[sharp hemlock]

lowkey why was he warned though

[mossy sigil]

I didn’t do nothing I even asked before I said anything to make sure it was ok

Y’all are racist asf

[silver plover]

I warned you that dropping the N word is not permitted. That's literally a warning.

[jagged nacelle]

Dialect varies in cultures, in Brazil we use the word gringo as anyone who isn't brazillian, but some people take the same word as a bad way so better just avoid

[silver plover]

And if you continue with this off topic nonsense, you will be removed. If you'd like to discuss with the moderation team, dm ModMail

[chrome night]

as a fellow wigga i think it is also tuff

[sharp hemlock]

you gonna warn this guy too Bobby?

[silver plover]

!mute 1482215019771855061

[granite wyvern]

That's fine. But experience here suggests that "pip" doesn't always get the same python as intended (often on Windows?), so we generally recommend using pip via python -m pip, adjusting python to be the specific python you intend, as you already do.

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @chrome night until <t:1774568906:f> (1 hour).

[mossy sigil]

He’s just said it

[oblique spindle]

Saying we're racist when Asking permission to say a racist slur? That's hypocrisy

[gleaming knoll]

so python

[celest breach]

In before the ban storm

[oblique spindle]

Let's come back to python

[steady rain]

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**What's your favorite Python related book?**

Suggest more topics here!

[sharp hemlock]

nah justice for @chrome night, ts takes guts fr

[silver plover]

!mute 846498827238506499 I don't know why you feel need to antagonize while we're trying to deal with this. So take a break.

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @sharp hemlock until <t:1774568947:f> (1 hour).

[steady rain]

Fluent python

[mossy sigil]

But I’m asking permission I didn’t out right say it y’all are fake asl

[gleaming knoll]

native python when
are there native python speakers?

[silver plover]

!mute 1321076256955043881 1d take a break and come back when you want to talk about Python

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @mossy sigil until <t:1774651777:f> (1 day).

[gleaming knoll]

i already expressed the idea of a latin native kid whose parents would teach them latin as the first language
what if same thing but with python
well
python is not really a proper spoken language but

[raw bramble]

How do you speak Python

[runic flower]

What's your favorite Python related book?
So, Anyway...: A Memoir
by John Cleese

[rocky gust]

sss hisss hsss ssss 🐍

[celest breach]

print("Like this!")

[raw bramble]

How do you pronounce “(x:int):”

[gleaming knoll]

x of type int
maybe

[runic flower]

rhymes with belgium

[raw bramble]

That’s just English then

[oblique spindle]

echo "hello"```

[crisp jay]

The python book that I tried to read was telling me to use turtle

[gleaming knoll]

well yeah
a certain subset of english

[ebon comet]

I heard a rumour that the python repo got hacked and that all api keys e.g. pip related keys were exposed - is that true? Should I be concerned?

[oblique spindle]

It's True , I heard from theprimetime.

[burnt pier]

how to make your child hate you 101

[runic flower]

Turtle is not bad for training, it's not something you'll use outside of education though.

[ebon comet]

oh dear - IG time to update my keys then

[oblique spindle]

Not the python repo though

[gleaming knoll]

the litellm repo
so if you used litellm (even transitively) then yes you should do something

[oblique spindle]

It's an AI company repo litellm which was hacked.
Python library

[crisp jay]

Wasnt it a python package?

[ebon comet]

oh I don't care about that

[jagged nacelle]

Iirc Trivy was hacked and any CI/CD that had their thing got env credentials stolen, one of them being LiteLLM which had their Pypi credentials in GitHub actions

[oblique spindle]

Yes , but if you aren't using that library you shouldn't be worried.

[ebon comet]

yeah so basically lk I don't care!!!

[crisp jay]

Can it hack other libraries?

Like that one npm worm

[ebon comet]

Thanks for the clarification

[runic flower]

Yes. LiteLLM. If you don't use that you're fine.

[gleaming knoll]

its a package, but afaiu, the issue came through the maintainer's github being hacked and malicious changes being pushed to the repo
* no

[oblique spindle]

Basically from how I understand,
if any library you download has code "import litellm" you can be hacked. If not you're safe.
.
And I don't think any Major libraries has this line.

[autumn pelican]

Or if a tool you use has it

[jagged nacelle]

The root cause of it was an earlier compromise of Trivy pretty sure https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2026/03/24/detecting-investigating-defending-against-trivy-supply-chain-compromise/

[ebon comet]

ok thanks

[bright shoal]

Yes

[rugged barn]

Good timezone

[bright shoal]

https://www.endorlabs.com/learn/teampcp-isnt-done

There is a full timeline breakdown from Feb 2026 -> Mar 2026

[ebon comet]

No offence but given the situ I'm wary about clicking that link

[bright shoal]

[oblique spindle]

I'm wondering isn't there ever a case of a legitimate developer getting greedy and pushing malicious code to a repo to hack everyone?
.
Feels like incentives are too high for popular tools.
.
Imagine getting access to millions of machines.

[gleaming knoll]

oh well, the maintainer's account has been compromised indeed, but the malicious stuff was specifically added in pypi releases

[fickle sphinx]

like the xz hack?

[unborn lagoon]

There has been a few, node-ipc is perhaps the most notable.

[bright shoal]

Most people don't think of becoming a cybercriminal tbh

[fickle sphinx]

oh, "legitimate" yeah I dont know of one

[unborn lagoon]

though that wasn't for being greedy per se, moreso hacktivism

[gleaming knoll]

hacktoberfest???

[velvet trout]

Oh its a platform drama i see

[silver plover]

What's the supply chain fix to this tho? Why isn't the build artifact signed on the GitHub side at build time or something?

[fickle sphinx]

I think legit developers know how high the odds are of them getting caught so they don't try

[gleaming knoll]

yeah thats what i thought first too, surely the pypi releases must only be valid by being built from the repo's CI

[crisp jay]

Jia Tan

[velvet trout]

i feel bad for October.

[fickle sphinx]

yeah that wasn't a real person tho

[granite wyvern]

It seems worse on Windows, but I do this as a general thing myself.

[velvet trout]

I see

[crisp jay]

Imagine you take a good amount of time to craft a backdoor and someone discovers it bc ssh was taking 200ms longer

[runic flower]

That was the comment I saw on linkedin about this, it's not an "ai problem" it's a supply chain issue and should be handled better.

[gleaming knoll]

i dont remember the last time i saw an attack that wasnt supply chain
maybe its the only ones i remember

[crisp jay]

All points into social engineering but none in malware

[bright shoal]

Literal ragebait for the nation state

[runic flower]

Historically most of the more famous "hackers" have been social engineers and not programmers. (morris worm aside)

[runic flower]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo's_Egg_(book)

[craggy mantle]

guys whats the import to make my bot do math?

[gleaming knoll]

what kind of math?

[craggy mantle]

like

multiplication, div, etc

basic

[crisp jay]

Uhhhhh

[short whale]

Isn't that built in?

[crisp jay]

#include <math.h>

[craggy mantle]

i meant the thing at the top of the code

[gleaming knoll]

do you want to support arbitrary nested expressions, or just have a command per operation?

[craggy mantle]

/calculate

command yes

[gleaming knoll]

you should learn about parsing expressions, its fun and useful
do not use a library right away - it robs you from learning

[runic flower]

You probably should not be using pyautogui if you don't understand that math is built into python. You might want to take a basic tutorial first as you might be missing a lot of the fundamentals at this point.

[craggy mantle]

Some people are good in such things and arent in others

mb chat

[runic flower]

This might help: https://www.pythoncheatsheet.org/cheatsheet/basics
It's based on the automate the boring stuff book.
It's not perfect, but it might answer a lot of your questions.

[craggy mantle]

thanks!

[gleaming knoll]

i think they know about math operators, they are writing a discord bot and want an /eval command essentially

[soft mirage]

Hi is it possible to use adjaceny matrix, for a directed traversal graph as the backbone of a text base adventure game? like a network of decisions?

My idea for a project, is the player is really interacting with matrix network, then that network produces the content, per the node and edges.

Is this a real thing?
I started Uni, and learned about graph theory, and wanted to implement it in my python game project

[granite wyvern]

There's import math for things like trigonometric functions and other things (NaN et al). But basic arithmetic is part of python: 3 + 4 and so forth.

[runic flower]

Sonds interesting, have you looked at networkx ?

[soft mirage]

wuw, interesting..
I have been in a bubble of knowledge, I'm only realising how much I really don't know, and have not explored

[runic flower]

20 years from now you will know a LOT more, and finally have a good idea of how little you know. 🙂
You're doing great keep exploring and having fun.

[craggy mantle]

Should I use one file to save data for everything in my bot data. Or use seperate files for different things, like warnings, prefrences, etc.

[granite wyvern]

I discovered this at uni: the more you known, the larger the periphery of your knowledge and therefore the more you know that you don't know. I grumped about how it seems impossible to learn everything to a professor. They said something encouraging to me.

[granite wyvern]

Start with one file.

[craggy mantle]

Alr

[runic flower]

Typically for a game like that you will have a graph, but you won't actually use a graph or graph like data structure, it'll be more of a virtual representation, like "I have this map area" stored in a database and it'll store all of it's connections tother map areas. So you in effect have a graph, but it's really just data stored in a database.

[fickle sphinx]

Depends on how much data. If you have a lot of data then use a database

Are we talking configuration data?

[craggy mantle]

Alot.. Alot.

[runic flower]

solid advice.

[fickle sphinx]

yes use a database don't use files

[craggy mantle]

Yes. And alot of stuff more.

[craggy mantle]

Whats a good way to use a database..?

[granite wyvern]

Your idea of a lot might be smaller than you think.

[fickle sphinx]

Configuration can be in files. JSON, YAML, whatever floats your boat there are a lot of approaches. Actual data should be in a database

[granite wyvern]

Start with sqlite, it's supplied with python, stored the db in a single file (i.e. no db server required).

[winged vector]

im so confused guys, I'm trying to find the dot product between two latitude and longitude coordinates
i first convert them into cartesian coordinates but im struglling for the dot stuff

[spark canyon]

i'm in a beautiful predicament right now in which my code, unchanged, will sometimes run, but sometimes claim there's a syntax error on line 171, 173, or 175

[soft mirage]

Exactly what I want to demonstrate, as if it was a much bigger game, the network would be huge, thus be a lot more useful to have a graph/matrix

[fickle sphinx]

I would recommend sqlite

[spark canyon]

i am assuming there is something wrong with the port of python i'm running, otherwise this should never happen right? lol

[granite wyvern]

Syntax errors require the code to change.

[runic flower]

You might use a graph for the paths to represent optimal pathing from one location to another.

[spark canyon]

that's what i'm saying

[granite wyvern]

You should show the full error.

[crisp jay]

The dot product?

[runic flower]

want to share lines 165-180 ?

[winged vector]

Yea

[spark canyon]

oh man, i can't copy text out of this terminal so i'd need a second

[soft mirage]

thank you for suggesting :))

[granite wyvern]

Really? That's unfortunate.

[spark canyon]

but i literally press the run button twice and the first time it says
File "<stdin>", line 173
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
and the second time it says
File "<stdin>", line 175
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

[granite wyvern]

Normally this includes snipptes of code as well.

[spark canyon]

yeah it does not

[burnt pier]

do you know how to calculate the dot product of two vectors by hand?

[soft mirage]

Another idea is graph theory x rubiks cube

[spark canyon]

again i'm assuming this is an issue with the port or with my board because it's absolutely never supposed to happen

[granite wyvern]

I withdrawn this statement, it's clearly false.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<frozen runpy>", line 189, in _run_module_as_main
  File "<frozen runpy>", line 159, in _get_module_details
  File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap_external>", line 1160, in get_code
  File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap_external>", line 1090, in source_to_code
  File "<frozen importlib._bootstrap>", line 488, in _call_with_frames_removed
  File "/Users/cameron/hg/css-pilfer/lib/python/cs/app/pilfer/print.py", line 201
    )))
     ^
SyntaxError: closing parenthesis ')' does not match opening parenthesis '[' on line 191

[granite wyvern]

Please show the code.

[spark canyon]

sure

[winged vector]

Ah

im gonna do it on paper, and then do ito n code

[burnt pier]

sounds like a plan

[runic flower]

you know we have libraries that do that. this is a previously solved problem.

[edgy kraken]

Hey @spark canyon!

Please edit your message to use a code block

Add a py after the three backticks.

```py
print('Hello, world!')
```

This will result in the following:

print('Hello, world!')```

[spark canyon]

code expunged, ultimately was irrelevant to issue

[fickle sphinx]

https://numpy.org/doc/stable/reference/generated/numpy.dot.html

[granite wyvern]

This seems syntacticly correct. Sure the file has been saved?

[winged vector]

oh.. i ended up doing it manually

    def dot(self, Coord):
        AB = self.X * Coord.X + self.Y * Coord.Y + self.Z * Coord.Z
        theta = AB / (EARTH_RADIUS   ** 2)
        return math.acos(theta)

[craggy mantle]

when using
import aiosqlite
why is the aiosqlite underlined red

[spark canyon]

yeah

[gleaming knoll]

do you have it installed?

[spark canyon]

again, the weird thing isn't just that it thinks there's a syntax error, it's that it only thinks so sometimes

[granite wyvern]

Maybe it is misspelled or not present in the python which your linter is consulting.

What aiosqlite instead of the supplied sqlite module?

[spark canyon]

i'm just pressing the run button in the ide

[craggy mantle]

How do I install it?

[gleaming knoll]

the same way you install other packages, with pip

[craggy mantle]

Then yes it is installed.

[granite wyvern]

In a venv? Your linter might be looking at the wrong python?

[craggy mantle]

Maybe I should restart VSC

[granite wyvern]

I would hope that doesn't help 🙁

But I gather that for whatever reason, the python you choose for vscode (pick interpreter) is distinct from the python pylance looks at, and both need configuring. Super annoying. I gather.

[fickle sphinx]

generally speaking, it's better to find and use publicly available code which lots of people are using than to do it yourself

[granite wyvern]

Unless you want to learn.

[fickle sphinx]

not to criticize you, just sayin

[winged vector]

Gotcha, i got the conversion online idk why i thought that it wouldnt exist

[fickle sphinx]

yeah 100% true

[granite wyvern]

Could you be running another file? Or running this file before it is saved?

[fickle sphinx]

I just like pointing that out whenever I can because it's something beginners should know

[winged vector]

welp i now understand the dot product WAY better plus i have a cool method

[velvet trout]

Hi chat

[spark canyon]

no, i don't think so

[winged vector]

any vscode users how can i import a class from another file in my folder?

[spark canyon]

i think none of the other files in this folder are longer than maybe 100 lines

[winged vector]

ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'RwyThresholdGuard'

[crisp jay]

Use neovim

[spark canyon]

plus, the other files in this folder actually work regularly

[granite wyvern]

In another window, list/show the content of the file from outside your editor. See if it's different.

Also, check that vscode (is it vscode?) is running the file you expect it to run.

[fickle sphinx]

put something in help channel and I can help you

[crisp jay]

Also importing python files isnt a vscode unique thing

[winged vector]

#1035199133436354600

[craggy mantle]

time to read 2000 lines of code and make sure nothing is wrong 😃

[spark canyon]

it's not vscode, it's arduino lab

[granite wyvern]

Ok. but the same suggestions apply 🙂

[rocky gust]

couldn't you do that while you're making the code

[ebon comet]

Not sure how back this chat comment is so apologies if I missed the boat but I just want to say this...

IMHO if you're able to say 'I don't know' no matter how senior you become, you will retain your ability to learn and your honesty with your peers.

If you ever find you cannot do so then you perhaps have reached your level of incompetence.

[spark canyon]

well, not really. the run button here should always send the code currently open to the microcontroller regardless of if it's saved or has the right filename

[granite wyvern]

Ah, it's delivering the code to the arduino box?

[craggy mantle]

wasnt rlly paying attention to my english (python)

[spark canyon]

to an esp32, yeah

that's why the file is "<stdin>"

[granite wyvern]

Is it possible the transfer is unreliable? Seems unlikely.

[rocky gust]

you should put it on github

[craggy mantle]

me?

[spark canyon]

that actually would make a lot of sense. i can transfer the file properly and see if it's more consistent that way

[granite wyvern]

Worth a try.

When you press "run", how does the esp32 get it? Is it "typed" to some kind of terminal (hence the "stdin")? Rather than being transferred "as a file" and then directly run like "python the-tranferred-file.py".

I know nothing about esp32 devices.

[spark canyon]

i think it's sending over the terminal yea

[craggy mantle]

im not an open source guy

[rocky gust]

fair ig

[granite wyvern]

It can be possible to "send too fast", either actually overrunning the serial through some setup mismatch, or overflowing the terminal buffer of whatever receives.

[craggy mantle]

🤫 my code is my code

[spark canyon]

ok yeah that worked. Sigh

[granite wyvern]

Ok. I'd say "your file is too big to just type to the receiving thing".

[spark canyon]

right

[granite wyvern]

Is there any scope for putting a slight delay in the seending of each line? Eg send line of code, delay 0.1s, repeat?

[spark canyon]

maybe if i could get it to talk at a different speed it might get more consistent

[granite wyvern]

A slower speed.

[spark canyon]

but this ide does not have many such options

[granite wyvern]

Surely you can set the serial line speed and other parameters (parity, stop bits etc)

Of course the esp32 has to match

[craggy mantle]

does a json file make a good data base 💀