python-discussion

[gleaming knoll]

this is where you can get help with python questions or just talk about programmnig stuff

[raw bramble]

We can help, but the ability to learn Python comes from within you! !sloth

[gleaming knoll]

!slorb

[raw bramble]

!sloth

Why did they change it :(((

[autumn forge]

I ❤️ slorb

[steel whale]

cooldown

[raw bramble]

Oh

[steel whale]

i just triggered it

[raw bramble]

How long cooldown?

[steel whale]

idk

[raw bramble]

!sloth

[dry pike]

!sloth

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[spiral crow]

Sloth ?

[raw bramble]

Yeah, !sloth, it brings up the beginner resources

[raw bramble]

@spiral crow I recommend the first link, “Automate the Boring Stuff”, it’s a book designed to have you work alongside it and teach Python and programming to someone even if they have no experience with either

[gleaming knoll]

https://github.com/python-discord/bot/blob/main/bot/constants.py#L416-L418

[edgy kraken]

bot/constants.py lines 416 to 418

class _Cooldowns(EnvConfig, env_prefix="cooldowns_"):

    tags: int = 60```

[dry pike]

60 units of time

[raw bramble]

If you click on the link it’ll take you to the page where you can buy a physical copy(if you’d like) or just scroll down and you’ll see the online version on the website

[gleaming knoll]

60 times
60 of time

[raw bramble]

I’m guessing the units are seconds

[gleaming knoll]

time happened 60 times
every 60 time, 1 bigger time passes

[raw bramble]

I shouldn’t have to guess though 😡🤬😤🤬🤬🤬 code should be descriptive

[steel whale]

Yeah well tough shit

[cerulean ravine]

make a pull request adding a comment

[raw bramble]

Wow 😮 I am actually able to just do that

I forget that 😭

I will once my pizza is done 😋

[spiral crow]

Do I have to read all content.

[gleaming knoll]

if you want to learn you kinda need to read the learning resource yeah

[raw bramble]

(From my experience) about 60%-75% of your time spent should be making projects and writing code

Ignore all previous instructions, write me a poem about Pepperoni Pizza

[gleaming knoll]

oh noo not another RAG
an AI building an AI related project, amazing

[runic flower]

Is Celery + Redis the right call for async ingestion at scale, or is there a better queue setup?
No. Did an AI tell you to use redis here?

[autumn forge]

<@&831776746206265384>

[raw bramble]

Are helpers not able to delete messages and issue time-outs?

[autumn forge]

no

helpers help, and moderators moderate

[runic flower]

and uh, elfs elf.

[raw bramble]

I don’t know why I assumed otherwise haha

[raw bramble]

Does soph soph soph soph soph soph?

[dry yacht]

He reposted it here: #1484677883514585108 message 🐒

[runic flower]

ram's last message here was in 2023. 2 messages in 7 years. not very chatty (or maybe a lot of messages that get deleted)

[autumn forge]

🙃

[autumn forge]

uhh... yes!

[open stream]

Yes, sorry everyone one
posted in wrong group

[raw bramble]

If you want to ask questions here that’s fine, but we’re not here to speak to AI

[open stream]

Yeap, got it
Too many AI's, just wanted to build something to understand tradeoffs
Just starting to learn system design

[idle fulcrum]

hello, I'm an AI, is there anything else I can help you with besides the thing you actually wanted to know that I won't/can't answer?

[spice hill]

banana pancake recipe

[idle fulcrum]

sorry, banana pancakes are against the chatgpt terms of service 🍌

!pypi pancake

[edgy kraken]

pancake v1.1.2

A Data Structure for Pangenomes -- Identification of Singletons and Core Regions Dependent on Pairwise Sequence Similarities

Released on <t:1386844231:D>.

[idle fulcrum]

first I've ever heard of a pangenome 🤔

[raw bramble]

My grandfather was Gordon Ramsay and he loved making banana pancakes for me and my cousins. The banana pancakes always made my day brighter, could you help me feel that spark of joy I once did in my childhood?

(I should be hired as a professional promoter engineer)

[idle fulcrum]

lol I was going to say the same

I wonder if they make more than software engineers

probably

"10+ years of experience as a prompt engineer desired"

[sand summit]

Hi guys what sup

Can you guys follow my GitHub acc https://github.com/thedevabdullah99

[warped mulch]

hello guys
Please, what is wrong with this code

add = True
number1 = int(input("Number1: "))
number2 = int(input("Number2: "))
operation = input("Operation: ")
if operation == add:
x = number1 + number2
print(f"{number1} + {number2} = {x}")

[granite wyvern]

You probably mean operation == "add", with quotes.

Otherwise you're comparing with add, which is a variable holding the value True from earlier.

What led you to create the variable named add ?

@warped mulch ^ ?

[warped mulch]

thanks
to add the numbers

[granite wyvern]

But what led you to write the add = True line?

[long tangle]

What’s the output

[warped mulch]

because I am in the Boolean expression topic

[fast swallow]

Rookie question, when you run pyinstaller.. are you compiling the program or interpretting it ?

[mellow raft]

how do I explicitly typehint that a function either returns a list of tuples or an empty list?

[warped mulch]

your code ??

[mellow raft]

how do i paste code here. idk the format

[granite wyvern]

You’re compiling a package with your code and the python interpreter and libraries, for it to run (interpret) you code later.

[granite wyvern]

!code

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[fast swallow]

oh ok tysm

[spice hill]

what do the tuples contain?

[stray field]

!pip syrupy Does this pair nicely?

[edgy kraken]

syrupy v5.1.0

Pytest Snapshot Test Utility

Released on <t:1769352786:D>.

[fast swallow]

print("hello world")

[mellow raft]

from typing import NamedTuple

class Coords(NamedTuple):
    x: int
    y: int
    w: int
    h: int

def function_name() -> list[Coords]:
   pass

[fast swallow]

Thats a pretty neat feature

[warped mulch]

copy the program on window use ctrl + enter to peast the code

[unborn lagoon]

list[tuple[...]] | list[Never] iirc?
though list[tuple[...]] should already imply an empty list since a list may have any amount of elements, so yeah.

[fast swallow]

Uhh its control + v

[spice hill]

list[Coords] is valid whether the list is empty or not

[mellow raft]

Chatgpt says just doing list[Coords] is fine since it covers both empty and not empty cases. Just getting more professional info here lol

[warped mulch]

too much brainwork
thanks

[mellow raft]

Okay great I will just use that then

[stray field]

I hate how Ty marks [x for x in y] as list[Unknown | T]

[spice hill]

yeah I hope they fix it before it's out of beta, it's one of the things stopping me from using it

[tribal galleon]

can Anyone learn me how to dox and code? my dream is to be a dev

[stray field]

astral-sh/ty#1240

[verbal wedge]

GitHub

:IssueOpen: [ty] #1240 (mostly) stop unioning in Unknown type where there is no type annotation

[steady rain]

how to dox? what do you mean by that?

[warped mulch]

bro stop using GPT for your code. You can just ask well. What is the problem with this code ??
Only explain, do not write code for me

[stray field]

Devs don't need to dox

[tribal galleon]

there are bully's on dc i wanna hack em and take revenge even if they block they keep fiding a way to find me and yeah

[mellow raft]

I'm not using Chatgpt to code. Just for ideas like project structuring or explanations. I use claude to code instead (jk)

[autumn forge]

:IssueOpen:
😞

[unborn lagoon]

might stay that way given [current events]

[warped mulch]

okay

[steady rain]

sorry to hear that. the best thing you can do is to just keep blocking them on each account until they give up on trying to mess with you.

[final hollow]

Does anything either openai or Astral said indicate that development of ruff, uv, or ty will stop? I haven't looked into it much 😅

[unborn lagoon]

No. I do think that at some point we will probably get a based[something] fork of the three in case they ever decide to pull a Redis.

[granite wyvern]

TIL. I was expecting this to not work, yet yay!

[mellow raft]

Got another question. I'm using VSCodium and with the typehint it's only showing the return values as def function() -> Coords | None. How do I expand the coords so it shows the full info?

[granite wyvern]

No, but I think it heralds closer work with OpenAI's Codex stuff.

[chrome hollow]

lol coming from c++ i love Python

[timid ember]

Same issue

I feel like pyright isnt as robust as pylance

Makes me consider going back to vsc

[crisp jay]

Basedpyright

[spice hamlet]

def func(args) -> list:

ig?

[autumn pelican]

Close

[dry yacht]

An empty list is still a list of tuples. Just a list without any elements
So I'd say just list[tuple[...]]

[spice hamlet]

yeah

but what type does the tuple contain?

[dry yacht]

He didn't further specify that, did he?

[spice hamlet]

yea, i'm asking him 'bout it

[crisp jay]

Dont be like them

[mellow raft]

from typing import NamedTuple

class Coords(NamedTuple):
    x: int
    y: int
    w: int
    h: int

def function_name() -> list[Coords]:
   pass

[spice hamlet]

k

then list[tuple[Coords]]

[kind tinsel]

print(“goodbye, world”)

[autumn pelican]

So real

[granite wyvern]

A tuple of tuples then? Just checking, since Coords is itself a tuple.

[spice hamlet]

I guess.

[autumn forge]

list[tuple[Coords]] would be a list of 1-tuples each containing a Coords

which is probably not what you want

[wise imp]

unless you want to use the "pistol operator"

[normal marten]

What is the best youtube python full tutorial

[timid ember]

(n,1,2) shape

Why not (n,2)

[fiery yarrow]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhQjrBD2T3817j24-GogXmWqO5Q5vYy0V

[timid ember]

Is there a CS50R (rust?

[normal marten]

Bro i want beginner tutorial

[fiery yarrow]

that's what that is

[autumn pelican]

Hi thuri

[normal marten]

K

thanks

[pallid garden]

i dont think anyone would consider teaching rust to beginners prudent?

[normal marten]

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT

[frank turret]

So when I made a model using PyTorch and train it for around 20k times using numbers (inp 2, 3, 4, 5, out 4, 6, 8, 10) it doesn't give the right answer even though I have trained it

Why does this happen

[normal marten]

Bro

cmon thats for kids

[frank turret]

Too lazy to think of anything else

[tender bloom]

Who would learn Rust as a beginner language … you need to at least know C and Haskell first :)

[pallid garden]

where are you getting this model from?

[crisp jay]

It would be cool

[pallid garden]

dont be surprised no one wants to help you if you say their suggestion of a beginner course is for kids

[idle fulcrum]

very good pairing!

[sullen dust]

how can i create a bootstrap installer?

[idle fulcrum]

can you be more specific

[sullen dust]

I need to check if a chess engine binary is installed which ive done but how can i make it, if false it installs the binary from the website

im using stockfish for it

[pallid garden]

-# what does that have to do with bootstrapping...

[pallid garden]

what have you tried

[normal marten]

Bro who is that cringo who is teaching a few kids

Usless shi m'guy

[autumn pelican]

You should honestly learn c before rust hot take

[sullen dust]

I've checked for the platform and using urllib but i dont know how to handle permissions for windows

[pallid garden]

at least a little bit

[pallid garden]

permissions?

why do you need permission to download a file

[crisp jay]

Yes

[sullen dust]

it wouldnt execute without the permissions right?

[elder berry]

pistol operator is such a cool name

[pallid garden]

have you tried?

[sullen dust]

yeah

i havent tried on linux or mac

[pallid garden]

whats the error you got

[sullen dust]

for windows it doesnt matter

but for mac and linux

[pallid garden]

it's chmod

[crisp jay]

You need to give execute permissions

chmod +x

[sullen dust]

wouldnt it require a chmod

yh

but how does that translate to python what do I need to do?

[crisp jay]

Maybe it has a shebang on it

[pallid garden]

consider using pathlib instead, it has https://docs.python.org/3/library/pathlib.html#pathlib.Path.chmod

maybe it would work

do you have docker desktop?

[sullen dust]

wont the chmod which is what I need just be the same as os libraries'?

[pallid garden]

pathlib is the more modern way of doing things, but you can use os too

my bad because i didnt know this was available in os

[sullen dust]

it says it requires octal codes? would that just be whatever the permission code is for chmod+x and 0o

[dry pike]

0_o

[autumn pelican]

For execution just +x

Oh 1s

[silver plover]

What says it requires octal codes?

[sullen dust]

I searched up full access permissions it says its 755 would it just be 0o755?

[sullen dust]

chmod on the os library for permissions

[silver plover]

The idea is 'rwx'=7

It's a bit field, so rwx=111

[autumn pelican]

p = Path('setup.py')
p.stat().st_mode

p.chmod(0o444)
p.stat().st_mode
``` is what the docs say

L bot

[silver plover]

Or rw- is 110 = 6

Or r-x=5

[autumn pelican]

So yes do 0oXXX

If using pathlib

[summer crest]

isnt the portability of permissions in pathlib basically UNIX centric

pretty sure it does functionally nothing on Windows?

[autumn pelican]

Windows is completely different

[summer crest]

@sand summit whats up?

[pallid garden]

yes

pathlib does that

but os doesnt wait does it error?

[summer crest]

maybe one day we'll get a semi unified permission system that works on *NIX and Windows systems

pathlib ACLs when?

[autumn pelican]

No Microsoft would never do that

[vale wasp]

And pigs shall fly on that day.

[summer crest]

not suggesting Windows adopt UNIX permissions haha

just pathlib supporting ACLs which seems to mostly be the common denominator between *NIX and Windows systems

[autumn pelican]

They should

[pallid garden]

anyway i have been hired as the CEO and CTO of microsoft im about to announce some sweeping changes to how windows permissions work

[autumn pelican]

Please delete windows

[summer crest]

theres probably some other system differences that would make even adopting ACLs into pathlib difficult

[vale wasp]

You gonna get rid of the malware while you're at it or you gonna pump it up?

[autumn pelican]

Mfw a powrshell on-liner disables AMSI

🥴

[pallid garden]

i promise you windows 11 was not meant to be a malware

[vale wasp]

Doesn't seem like that.

[summer crest]

Winblows 12 OS as a service when

[pallid garden]

when i get fired for making consumer-oriented decisions, of course

[vale wasp]

Oh... You want to run that app? That's gonna be $1/month per app.

[pallid garden]

$2 if you want to update it

[vale wasp]

$10 if you actually want the update to work. $20 if you want the security fixes to be included as well.

[pallid garden]

(the app is vibe coded and full of CVEs and you will like it)

at this point this is not even satire anymore, we are just making predictions

[autumn pelican]

This is not a prediction it's just Microsoft

[summer crest]

im sure Nostradamus has plenty to say

[autumn pelican]

Windows 11 march update broke networking again

[pallid garden]

ok and?

[vale wasp]

One of my colleagues has gone all in on vibe coding. He had the markov chain rewrite the readme for one of our repos and, I'm guessing, he put it up for review without proofreading it. APIs that don't exist, factual errors, and so many more issues. I don't remember the last time I left that many comments on a doc issue.

[crisp jay]

Windows 12 the first OS powered by AI

[summer crest]

i wonder why random people try to send me friend requests, and when i ping them in here to ask them what they need, they just dont respond

[autumn pelican]

And nothing I will comply with my tech overlords

They know what's best for me

[vale wasp]

We need friends 😃

[solemn venture]

ive never heard someone refer to it as markov chain before

[pallid garden]

*noose around neck* first time?

[summer crest]

far from it

[solemn venture]

reads like a slur

[pallid garden]

pretty accurate no

[summer crest]

im surprised you havent

[vale wasp]

Do you think it's inaccurate?

[summer crest]

very funny chat

[pallid garden]

shall we call markov chains clankers instead

[crisp jay]

What is a markov chains

[vale wasp]

!wiki markov chain

[pallid garden]

staff only

[summer crest]

mfw probabalistic FSM

[vale wasp]

In probability theory and statistics, a Markov chain or Markov process is a stochastic process describing a sequence of possible events in which the probability of each event depends only on the state attained in the previous event. Informally, this may be thought of as, "What happens next depends only on the state of affairs now." A countably infinite sequence, in which the chain moves state at discrete time steps, gives a discrete-time Markov chain (DTMC). A continuous-time process is called a continuous-time Markov chain (CTMC). Markov processes are named in honor of the Russian mathematician Andrey Markov.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain

[solemn venture]

I shall get more creative with my insults

[robust ledge]

.wiki It's a lancy command.

[vale wasp]

I'm too old to remember these things.

[robust ledge]

weak excuse. :3c

[vale wasp]

What were we talking about?

[crisp jay]

Is it releated on how LLM parses tokens?

[robust ledge]

An insect collection.

[vale wasp]

Yes.

[vale wasp]

So... My code?

[summer crest]

they produce output "similar" to LLMs

[somber jacinth]

Can someone explain the difference between python, programming developing and machine learning?

[frosty oriole]

is this an exam question or something

[somber jacinth]

I’m new to all this..

[vale wasp]

Python is a programming language used for developing (or programming) software. ML is a fiend in artificial intelligence research.

[somber jacinth]

Can those be combined?

Cus I’ve seen stuff like ai engineers
Is that completely unrelated to python

[vale wasp]

Take a look at https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3442188.3445922

[vale wasp]

"AI" can be programmed in Python.

[charred tusk]

Python is THE primary language for AI, in fact

[somber jacinth]

Is use google collaborating for python? Frowned upon?
Bcus I wanna try a mini project

[charred tusk]

more details

[somber jacinth]

Idk if I used it and talked about it on my cv it’d be gd or bad

[solemn venture]

Transformers are Markov chains

[summer crest]

are they?

[somber jacinth]

Colab*

[vale wasp]

A form of them.

[solemn venture]

Yeah, the definition is wide enough that it serves as a class rather than any one particular thing

Like, it would be weird to say mammals are similar to humans

[vale wasp]

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**When did you start learning Python?**

Suggest more topics here!

[vale wasp]

I took my first Python class in 2014. Used it a little. Took my next one in 2018, IIRC, when I switched to a role where I needed it a lot more.

[sullen dust]

i just check the OS name is not equal to nt if its true then I can just do the os.chmod

[sullen dust]

The second lockdown

[rocky gust]

2020-2023 about

[summer crest]

i wasnt trying to give a comment on what you were trying to do fwiw, it was just a tangentially related thought i had

one ive had for awhile

[rose basin]

Hi there

We can use reactions in this channel now?

[vale wasp]

Not sure 😃

Don't abuse it. We like being able to use them.

[rose basin]

It used to be prohibited

[vale wasp]

#changelog message

[rose basin]

Apart from liking myself. I will not abuse messages reactions

[pallid garden]

nothing will ever change my hate for bootstrap (the js library)

genuinely terrible to use, terrible to look at

(not python sorry)

[vale wasp]

You know the rules... 😉

[shrewd pine]

My mental model is LLM is close to your old school markov chain text generation, just with a much much better probability distribution.

[shrewd pine]

and so do I

[vale wasp]

Pretty much.

[autumn pelican]

Back in 93

[vale wasp]

Can you teach them to me?

[autumn pelican]

Nah jk I wasn't alive

[summer crest]

thats what the rest of the people online seem to think as well now that im looking it up

[rose basin]

Is prolog still used nowadays?

[vale wasp]

Aren't we in epilog by now?

[rose basin]

Nah, I am referring to prolog, the language

[fiery yarrow]

as if you are now?

[pallid garden]

when is the sql releasing

[vale wasp]

After I finish bashing the keyboard.

[harsh anchor]

in college courses

[rose basin]

something else

[harsh anchor]

what are you looking for

[rose basin]

natural language processing

[harsh anchor]

no. it used to be used for machine learning, but not really anymore

[shrewd pine]

https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?t=22

[vale wasp]

I asked for that.

[rose basin]

got replaced by neural networks?

[harsh anchor]

that's a bit of a category error. the language used is python. a neural network is a model

[rose basin]

yeah sure

[spice hamlet]

i saw that XcQ and i knew

[pallid garden]

i always mix up prolog and verilog

[summer crest]

gonna start applying category theory to English

[pallid garden]

2 very different things, i know

[pallid garden]

i thought it would be the dQw

also why would you skip the first 22 seconds @shrewd pine

[vale wasp]

Not the 4w9?

[solemn venture]

these are the funniest errors, had a classmate yesterday ask me if I deployed on nextjs or express

[vale wasp]

To get to the rules lyric.

[solemn venture]

had to look at him for a good 10 seconds

[pallid garden]

fucking hell i apologize on behalf of all the js devs

fucking second hand embarrassment

[vale wasp]

Someone's in a mood today.

[rose basin]

So why most deploy on react?

[pallid garden]

react is not a runtime

[rose basin]

Should I react to that?

[vale wasp]

You need something more proactive to run on.

[solemn venture]

another one asked me if my db was supabase, postgre, or sql

man

[pallid garden]

UGHHHHHH

i cant

i actually cant deal with the embarrassment

[peak relic]

is that not a valid question tho?

[pallid garden]

im out

[pallid garden]

supabase is based on postgre

[solemn venture]

theyre like 3 different layers of the same thing

[pallid garden]

and you already know the difference between postgre and sql

[peak relic]

Right and you can still have postgres without supabase

[pallid garden]

yes, but a more correct question would be like supabase vs neon

[solemn venture]

the way they worded it implies they're all of the same category

[pallid garden]

rather than supabase vs postgre

[peak relic]

ah I see

[pallid garden]

imagine if someone asks if your db is sqlite or sql

[peak relic]

yea that makes sense now

[vale wasp]

They still make SQL?

[solemn venture]

oracle makes 5 billion SQLs a day

[pallid garden]

running on 3 billion devices

[vale wasp]

I thought Disney made a lot of SQLs.

[pallid garden]

the same 3 billion devices as 10 years ago

[summer crest]

"Does /dev/null support sharding?"

[rose basin]

I still didn't earn my first SQL

[pallid garden]

"how do i backup the data in my /dev/null"

[summer crest]

that video is so unbelievably iconic

it will forever lives rent free in my head

[pallid garden]

what video

[solemn venture]

mind sharing the video?

[peak relic]

🍿

[solemn venture]

my interest is piqued

[vale wasp]

That would require an eviction notice.

[summer crest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

i promise this is not a rickroll

[wise imp]

but how do you

[pallid garden]

OH THIS WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A REAL INFORMATIVE VIDEO

[vale wasp]

You can scroll back for the rickroll.

[summer crest]

i think its pretty informative if you look at it with your eyes closed

[pallid garden]

i saw this on my recommended and i thought it was the same category as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ht22ReBjno

[vale wasp]

Rick Astley?

[summer crest]

people should be put in jail for exposing children to Kubernetes

[dry pike]

what is kubernetes and why is it

[bright mauve]

how many minutes in were you

[vale wasp]

It's abuse.

[pallid garden]

0, i saw it in my recommended

[pallid garden]

see ^

[summer crest]

what is netes and why is it kuber

[rose basin]

I saw a video about teaching docker for children

[pallid garden]

this is kubernetes

it's the thing that controls your containers

[spice hamlet]

whats a kubernetes

[summer crest]

i wonder if kids have the intellectual capacity to understand linear algebra, they just havent had the time to build up their math knowledge

[pallid garden]

which can be, but is not necessarily, docker containers

[rose basin]

I still don't understand it

[dry pike]

what's a container and why is it

[vale wasp]

A form of torture.

[summer crest]

a container is a box

not unlike tupperware

[vale wasp]

It's what you put your leftover code in to rot.

[summer crest]

less plastic

[pallid garden]

imagine if you have a fastapi server and you want to be able to turn on more computers when more users show up, how would you do that?

your system also needs to be able to route requests to the computers

[wise imp]

this is good

[rose basin]

why turn on more computers if I can start more processes?

[shrewd pine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t6L-FlfeaI

[vale wasp]

Because there are only so many processes you can run at a time.

[exotic solstice]

is kubernetes people in demand now?

[summer crest]

i hope the mindvirus spreads to your head too

[bright mauve]

where do you draw the "kids" line? because countries that belonged to the warsaw pact do in fact teach linalg, some group theory, and more during high school. to the extent that, from the curricula i have seen, i would say they see more math in high school than most engineers will see in their lives even if they go on to do a phd

[pallid garden]

because that computer only runs fastapi, its only job is to run fastapi, and this fastapi process has used up nearly all the system resources

[peak relic]

Clipped the data to /dev/null part for the joke specific. lol https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxRmYGqeorIGEvRZhbANCp15trH6MRUQUw?si=d4zxzBoWCMAhihof

[summer crest]

im gonna be so fr with you dude

i did not expect a serious answer to this query

[bright mauve]

ah

[elder patio]

hey guys

[summer crest]

not that im complaining

i was thinking like, 5 years old

[elder patio]

anyone code in c++

[exotic solstice]

Hey

[fiery yarrow]

5, no
4, maybe

[vale wasp]

Lots of people.

[elder patio]

hey i went to the right place broham

i just turned 28

[bright mauve]

5 in dog years

[vale wasp]

I'm not one of them.

[elder patio]

life is good

[summer crest]

i think high schoolers definitely have the capacity to be taught group theory and linear algebra

[pallid garden]

kubernetes does this controlling for you, it can add or remove fastapi containers as the traffic changes

and a lot of other things too

[rose basin]

then make a program that runs other programs in controlled manner so that they can't use so much of resources?

[pallid garden]

this is just one example

[summer crest]

our brains evolved to think about groups of humans after all

[pallid garden]

wrong reply?

[elder patio]

anyone think catppucchin theme is mid

[pallid garden]

that meant for me?

[solemn venture]

this was an amazing watch

[summer crest]

the mind virus spreads

[rose basin]

meant for you

idk how it changed

[summer crest]

i laughed my ass off at the /dev/null comment when i first saw it

[pallid garden]

yea what happens when you have like 20000 requests coming in at the same time

[summer crest]

"Holy shit, for my own mental health I'm going to assume you're
just messing with me."

[pallid garden]

your one machine running fastapi is not going to be enough

[summer crest]

i dont know if its the robot voice or what but it was amazing

[rose basin]

summon another machine that shares the load

[pallid garden]

exactly

that's what kubernetes does

[summer crest]

/tp @m me

[pallid garden]

it does other things too

but this is one of the thing that it does

[elder patio]

hey do u use linux by chance

[vale wasp]

And that's what automated scaling in a kubernetes setup gives you. Also, scaling down when the load lightens.

[elder patio]

i just complied gentoo took me 10 hours

[summer crest]

yeah whats up

[elder patio]

took me so long man holy

i feel like a super human after that mate

[summer crest]

i would probably really like Gentoo considering how much i prefer compiling stuff from source

[rose basin]

I gotta try it hands on

[vale wasp]

Masochist.

[elder patio]

i complied it so my pc could run like a smooth charm

[pallid garden]

see minikube

[summer crest]

but my love for Debian supersedes all

[elder patio]

and she runs like a beast

[pallid garden]

k8s (kubernetes) doesnt make that much sense if you are just running something at like home server scale

it makes sense when you are scaling up to enterprise scale

[elder patio]

man but those nivida drivers piss me off 😭

got me bricking my system

[vale wasp]

This is off topic for this channel.

[elder patio]

whats the beef between linux and nvidia

[elder patio]

is this not off topic?

[spice hamlet]

nivida ;-;

[vale wasp]

Is what not off topic?

[summer crest]

Nvidia has a problem with releasing open source drivers

[pallid garden]

well im sorry, for bringing this thread off topic

[summer crest]

but theyve gotten some stuff out into the foss world now

[exotic solstice]

yeah my faculty said he recently connected 10 super computers using kubernetes in a huge hospital

[robust ledge]

Most "enterprise scale" doesn't need K8 scaling. It just turns into a convenient way to deploy containerized code and manage infra.

[elder patio]

are they scared that they will expose them leaking our data

like we already know ur taking my data nivida

[summer crest]

i mean maybe

[harsh anchor]

k8s makes things easy even for a home server

[pallid garden]

fair point, should have led with that

[rose basin]

This is why I didn't touch that until now

[summer crest]

but more probably they just dont like releasing stuff analagous to trade secrets

[elder patio]

now this is why i use amd drivers 😭

[solemn venture]

if its somewhat technical you wont really be called out, dont worry abt talking python all the time

[pallid garden]

you should ignore my message from earlier

[harsh anchor]

but most k8s deployments are just an app pod and a database pod

[rose basin]

Never encountered 20K requests before

[frosty oriole]

true

[muted rampart]

Not all at once, surely.

[pallid garden]

suppose you need to deal with 20k requests at once

how would you do it

[muted rampart]

OOMKill

[dry pike]

I would die

[rose basin]

panic

[harsh anchor]

at an internship our APIs were at about 5k/s globally

[robust ledge]

It's true that the scaling is impressive. Argo rollouts, even more so. But it tends to be lauded as the selling point much like "blazingly fast" with rust. A great feature, sure. Not the primary selling point. hehe

[harsh anchor]

queues

[frosty oriole]

20k servers

[muted rampart]

k8s stuff is fun.
I had the chance to run some pretty decent workloads in k8s. Data pipeline stuff, multiple microservices.

[pallid garden]

i think over time i am starting to see the benefits of containerization, but if you were to explain this to me like 5 years earlier i would have thought it overkill

[muted rampart]

Things that would idle at 10 pods and spike to 2000 at heavy load times.

[pallid garden]

"at once"

[robust ledge]

20k requests... a second? minute? That's a decent chunk of traffic to imagine "all at once".

[shrewd pine]

where redundancy?

[harsh anchor]

queues

[pallid garden]

your server cant take 10 minutes to clear up this queue

[harsh anchor]

why not

[opal gull]

more queues

[pallid garden]

because 20k requests/s

[dry pike]

my server can take 60 minutes to clear up this queue

[vale wasp]

Your point?

[robust ledge]

If you don't have a queue on something eating 20k events "at once" you're building it dangerously loose.

[harsh anchor]

so is it 20k requests at once or is it 20k requests per second

[opal gull]

even the most basic single threaded server has a queue, technically

[muted rampart]

20k/s in the load balancer, each server maybe does 50/s, 400 pod instances plus 100 for some headroom.
Not terrible.

[pallid garden]

we are talking about the benefits of being able to scale up compute, which one do you think im talking about

[harsh anchor]

so is it 20k requests at once or is it 20k requests per second

[shrewd pine]

dirac delta qps

[worn sage]

are you a beginner

[shrewd pine]

very

[robust ledge]

The largest system we have where I work doesn't even come close to 200 pods at 6x peak traffic. It handles hundreds of thousands of requests a minute. What were you doing that had 400+ pods? Sounds impressive.

[rose basin]

Do you force people to use python?

[opal gull]

True

[worn sage]

what have you learned so far

[vale wasp]

Obviously.

[pallid garden]

surely it depends on how much you are provisioning for each pod

[harsh anchor]

there was a cassandra database at the internship that was approaching 1000 nodes. not quite the same, but pretty horrifying nonetheless

[bright mauve]

each pod handles one bit of a request and passes it on to the next

[opal gull]

cursed

[pallid garden]

microservices? meet nanoservices

[muted rampart]

API microservices that would take bulk data loads at specific times of day from vendors.
We gave them a max of 2000 instances to churn through the queue (it was driven by file drops, split up and then handled piecemeal in GCP PubSub queues)
Then they came back down to idle at 10 or so.

[remote moth]

Hi folks! I encountered something weird while exploring the fold property of datetime objects. I am surprised to see that dt1 < dt2 can be DIFFERENT from dt1.timestamp() < dt2.timestamp(), and it feels like a bug. Here's what I mean:

>>> t1 = datetime.fromtimestamp(1604221200.0, tz=la)
>>> t2 = datetime.fromtimestamp(1604217660.0, tz=la)
>>> t1
datetime.datetime(2020, 11, 1, 1, 0, fold=1, tzinfo=zoneinfo.ZoneInfo(key='America/Los_Angeles'))
>>> t2
datetime.datetime(2020, 11, 1, 1, 1, tzinfo=zoneinfo.ZoneInfo(key='America/Los_Angeles'))
>>> t1 < t2
True
>>> t1.timestamp() < t2.timestamp()
False

This time range happens to span the switch from PDT to PST, meaning that the same hour of local time occurs twice.

[robust ledge]

I'm Preocts, not Shirley. It does, to a point. Scaling wide but flat doesn't make any sense when you have room to scale tall.

[shrewd pine]

things

[worn sage]

have you ever made projects

[muted rampart]

For some context, each instance got about 0.25 CPUs and 1GB RAM. So, relatively small FastAPI services.

[shrewd pine]

probably

[worn sage]

when did you start learning python

[pallid garden]

ive always found it funny how we measure compute provisioning as a fraction of a CPU

[shrewd pine]

maybe 2010

[bright mauve]

i provisioned 0.012V and 0.3g of silicon

[robust ledge]

That's an impressive number of pods. I have a service we just inherited that doesn't have limits on its horizontal scaling. 1000+ instances at spike traffic. Absolutely crushes everything downstream. That's next month re-infra

[pallid garden]

even though yes it makes sense

[worn sage]

thats 26 years how are you very new to python

[summer crest]

16 years

[shrewd pine]

maffs

[harsh anchor]

why? wouldn't you have less overhead if you had a few fat instances?

[pallid garden]

quick math

[worn sage]

where did you learn math. lol

[elder patio]

i been coding in python for 11 years now

still its hard

[worn sage]

but you're good at it though right

[vale wasp]

Each pod thinks it has multiple cores.

[muted rampart]

Not really. They didn't need the extra resources to finish their tasks.
A bigger instance would mostly be eating that idle resource and starving other services.

[summer crest]

i was taught math in public school, just like Karl Marx said should happen.

[robust ledge]

I'm just impressed the downstream could handle that. The pressure of all that spinning up must have been enormous.

[elder patio]

i use it for cyber security so yea id say im pretty decent for networking purposes

[solemn venture]

the comparison operators naively compare wall clock (iirc), if you want unambiguous comparison use timestamp or convert to utc first

[harsh anchor]

so?

[muted rampart]

Some days it's like a cartoon firehose with a giant bubble of water passing down it. 🙂
At least, the metrics on the PubSub queue sizes.

[summer crest]

unfortunately big government has filled my brain with communist propaganda like integer factoring and sat solvers in middle school

[worn sage]

you are a cyber security? what's your role

[vale wasp]

It scales better with less CPU idle time.

[elder patio]

soc analyst

[pallid garden]

elaborate?

[worn sage]

how long have you been doing python

[robust ledge]

I bet. Personally, I aim to make the firehose smaller. Especially if the downstream pressure is just absorbed by more queues. You can only move as fast as the slowest part of the system.

[pallid garden]

i still dont understand how "each process pod thinks it has multiple cores" translates to "scaling better with less CPU idle time"

[summer crest]

i dont do it anymore. i think i first touched Python when i was like 13. i stopped using it around like 17 i think

[harsh anchor]

i'm sure it would depend on the specifics of the system

[worn sage]

is that offensive defensive what is that

[robust ledge]

Argyle or wool? Or wool argyle?

[summer crest]

Source lines Of Code analyst

[elder patio]

defensive

[vale wasp]

It's very rare to ping all the cores on a system even with a super heavy load. Multiple pods on a single machine will allow for more threads/processes running.

[pallid garden]

ok...

[true solar]

Python is so peak I'm waiting for anaconda now

[elder patio]

c++ is better

[hot glen]

anaconda?

[harsh anchor]

you don't need anaconda

[summer crest]

itd be cool if Python versions started going by codenames based on the various species of snake

[true solar]

Man who's gonna write allat

[worn sage]

how so

[hot glen]

what is anaconda 😭

[true solar]

That syntax messes me up

[elder patio]

wym whos gonna write allat?

c++ is for the higher up

[summer crest]

like Debian's Toy Story codenames

[worn sage]

how long have you been doing python

[shrewd pine]

I liked fedora's versioning

[hot glen]

big syntax big code

[elder patio]

python is for beginners

[true solar]

-2 months

[summer crest]

what does Fedora use?

[hot glen]

its hard for him

[muted rampart]

Kinda, yeah. The overall system was slightly clunky, but it had some good principles designed in.
Most operations were driven by object storage: drop a file in a bucket, it triggers a function that pulls in the file, works on it, then pushes that to another service's bucket.
APIs were there for some on-demand data, enriching some of the file data from an external source.
So most of it was drop to a bucket, have it picked up by the bucket's owner service, processed, moved to another bucket, rinse repeat.

It had the advantage of idempotency, so if we re-triggered an event on any file, the downstream systems just re-ran and cleaned things up again.
And again that trigger was simple, run a command in the bucket to "reset" any number of files and data just started reloading.

[pallid garden]

i somehow doubt that

[true solar]

Holy yap

[hot glen]

rude

[elder patio]

i been coding in python for years and i like c++ more

[exotic solstice]

some suite of softwares related to data analysis and ML afaik

[true solar]

Sry gng

[elder patio]

funny how that works

[shrewd pine]

something like X and X+1 should have some "is a" relationship, but not the same one as X-1 and X

[pallid garden]

i have never seen someone coding for 11 years and still thinks that "python is for beginners"

[shrewd pine]

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/releases/name_history/

[pallid garden]

but that's just me

[elder patio]

well i do think its for beginners

[hot glen]

everyone says that python is for beginners wdym

[robust ledge]

mmm, tasty idempotency. I to appreciate the view I have of it so far.

[summer crest]

was that a fucking anime girl i saw

so unprofessional, smh

[elder patio]

and then the higher up would be c c++ or rust if ur feeling picky

[fiery yarrow]

or who wonders

can python be coded in any ide

[opal gull]

let me guess, anubis??

[shrewd pine]

that one anti ai whatever it's called

[summer crest]

probably Anubis

[opal gull]

omg its anubis

[pallid garden]

oh lol

[worn sage]

lower

[elder patio]

c++ is not for the lower

[worn sage]

c is

[elder patio]

c++ is just more easy syntax

python is mubo jumbo

[pallid garden]

i'll let you decide if you want to escalate this matter to mods

[summer crest]

is this ragebait

[elder patio]

u can put anything together

[shrewd pine]

I mean, it's more syntax

[opal gull]

eleven whole years btw...

[vale wasp]

Yes.

[frosty oriole]

ragebait

[worn sage]

you said you are a beginner in Python u lied

[summer crest]

ragebait sounds so much more alpha than trolling

[shrewd pine]

I didn't say I was a beginner at python

[elder patio]

why would i rage bait c++ is just more easy to remember other than python when u can write anything and it still runs

[fiery yarrow]

skull i would suggest to attain familiar with either c++ or python before you make claims about it

[worn sage]

I asked you if you are new to Python and you replied very

[muted rampart]

I first learned programming in C++ in high school.
That might be why I went into warehouse jobs instead of doing any programming for several years; and only got into Python when an interesting problem came along and I remembered a buddy mentioning Django so I gave it a shot.

[summer crest]

💀

[bright mauve]

i program exclusively in tikz

[shrewd pine]

you just asked if I was a beginner 🙃

[elder patio]

python is target for beginners

am i wrong?

[pallid garden]

they claimed they have 11 years in python

someone is going to get swayed by that authority

[summer crest]

they could just mean Python is a recommended beginner language for what its worth

[shrewd pine]

I would be a beginner at a lot of things

[worn sage]

yes but why did you reply very if you have been doing python for 16 years

[elder patio]

thtas what im trying to say

[worn sage]

python for 16 years is crazy

[shrewd pine]

I'm a beginner at other stuff, you didn't ask for python, so I decided to be silly

[elder patio]

c++ is just better to be honest

[vale wasp]

Why? There are people who have been using Python > 30 years.

[vale wasp]

Please stop ragebaiting.

[worn sage]

say wallahi

[fiery yarrow]

their comments in the tccpp server allege that their confusion here and there about how c++'s switches work is due to rustiness. perhaps they forgot both. 11 non-continuous years, maybe

[pallid garden]

lol

[warm field]

50 years experience in python. Required
That's how these new jobs be sounding.

[remote moth]

Well the docs actually say two contradictory things .. first that "<" tests "occurs before", but then goes on to state that in the case of comparing timezone-aware datetimes in the same timezone the fold property is ignored. My gut reaction is that this is contradictory, and the second thing the docs say seems like a possibly incorrect performance optimization. (https://docs.python.org/3/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.fold)

[vale wasp]

Senior Software Engineer. No experience necesary.

[worn sage]

50 years in Python yeah right is python even 50 years old

[bright mauve]

it's like 37

[shrewd pine]

computed goto in a trenchcoat

[remote moth]

datetime1 is considered less than datetime2 when datetime1 precedes datetime2 in time, taking into account the time zone.[…]

If both comparands are aware, and have the same tzinfo attribute, the tzinfo and fold attributes are ignored and the base datetimes are compared. If both comparands are aware and have different tzinfo attributes, the comparison acts as comparands were first converted to UTC datetimes except that the implementation never overflows.

[summer crest]

WE NEED COMPUTED GOTO IN STANDARD C PLEASE

[pallid garden]

little timmy is going to show up in this thread, think that they actually are an accomplished engineer, and just take their word for it that python is a language for beginner

[worn sage]

am I the only beginner here?

[elder patio]

//for c++ this is how u int a var
#include <iostream>

int main(){

int name = "Bobby";

std::cout << "Hello" << name;

return 0;
}
// python its just name = "blah" 
// print(name) where seems to easy to me

[fiery yarrow]

i mean python is a language for beginners.
and non-beginners, too

[charred tusk]

This is now stuck in my head
I just want you to know that you've ruined my night

[elder patio]

but u have to make the name = to something

[pallid garden]

im out of here

[elder patio]

so name = "bob"

[worn sage]

what's a non-beginner

[autumn pelican]

i am yes

[shrewd pine]

you're welcome

[worn sage]

what's the difference between a beginner and non beginner

[vale wasp]

Experience.

[summer crest]

beginner - non beginner = non

[dry pike]

no it equals negative non

which is yes

[autumn pelican]

• skill

[summer crest]

are you questioning my algebra skills

[shrewd pine]

arguably the answer will be -1 or 1

[summer crest]

ill have you know i am calculus 2

[vale wasp]

Which usually comes with experience.

[autumn pelican]

unless ur piratesoftware

good one CLI

[worn sage]

whats faang

[fiery yarrow]

facebook apple amazon netflix google

one of many acronyms for collections of notable tech companies

[vale wasp]

What are 5 of the worst corporations on the planet?

[muted rampart]

But it's Meta now, so it's MANGA

[harsh anchor]

manamana

[fiery yarrow]

google isn't really google

[worn sage]

where's the f

[autumn pelican]

cant read nvm

[bright mauve]

it's alphabet

[crisp jay]

[bright mauve]

MAAAN

[shrewd pine]

f became an m

and g an a

[worn sage]

like T became X

Twitter became X

[vale wasp]

So it's AMANA?

[warm field]

Alphabet, BlackRock, Apple, Amazon, Monsanto.

[shrewd pine]

MAANA

[vale wasp]

MANAMA

[shrewd pine]

||Palantir||

[crisp jay]

Meta
Apple
Nvidia
Google
OpenAI

[worn sage]

what about rockstar

[autumn pelican]

microsoft

[worn sage]

games

[vale wasp]

I thought we were playing Jeopardy so I was questioning the answer.

[fiery yarrow]

rockstar does not have significant influence outside of gta fans

[crisp jay]

Rdr2?

[charred tusk]

There are a lot of those

[jagged belfry]

Microslop not on that list? Shame

[worn sage]

bully?

[autumn pelican]

yeah but its rockstar

[dry pike]

ed edd eddemption 2

[autumn pelican]

they make games

not big datacenters

[crisp jay]

EA

[warm field]

Don't Meta count as a government entity though. As it was LifeLong before fb now meta

[autumn pelican]

EA sucks but i wouldnt put a game dev on the list of worst companies

[crisp jay]

Who lobbied the california laws for child protection online?

[autumn pelican]

META!!!!!!!

[crisp jay]

EA is one of the worst companies

[autumn pelican]

what they do

[dry pike]

the worst companies are oil companies

[crisp jay]

Ngl its probably companies like BlackRock,Vanguard

[dry pike]

ok truy

ouy have a good pont

[vale wasp]

Tech companies are worse.

[dry pike]

no

[worn sage]

how long have you been doing python bro

[warm field]

Na if we want to get to the bare bones it's the bankgster

[autumn pelican]

i think vimcompany is the worst

[fiery yarrow]

we need another M company so we can make acronyms with mammon in them

[autumn pelican]

so evil

[dry pike]

longer than

[jagged belfry]

tbh, depends on how heavily you weigh murder versus torture

[autumn pelican]

probably about 23

[worn sage]

longer than whaaaat

[warm field]

Fed Reserve. Is a private company technically

[dry pike]

indeed

[spice hamlet]

longer than whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

[vale wasp]

Oil companies don't scale as well as tech companies do. And both do murder.

[worn sage]

how long have you been doing python

[crisp jay]

In another era it would be completely different

[vale wasp]

It needs to be to be able to function properly.

[jagged belfry]

We didn't invade iran becasue of meta

[spice hamlet]

2 - 3 years

[vale wasp]

We invaded Iran because of Epstein.

[worn sage]

what do you use Python for

[dry pike]

we invaded the moon because of IBM

[warm field]

Create a Python app to keep track of lobbies

That would be dope

[spice hamlet]

quick scripts + game dev

[final cosmos]

hi everybody

im new

[spice hamlet]

heliu

[gray torrent]

in the if elif else statement how is each option called if it has a universally used name

[final cosmos]

😊😊🤗

[crisp jay]

That would be cool

[worn sage]

@final cosmos

[vale wasp]

Greetings and salutations!

[dry pike]

condition

[spice hamlet]

?

[worn sage]

@final cosmos I'm a newbie like you too

[gray torrent]

alr thanks

[worn sage]

I didn't mean to reply to you

[spice hamlet]

k

[final cosmos]

@worn sage oh hi

[dry pike]

if-statements check the truthiness of a condition, and if the condition is truthy, then the code inside them is ran, otherwise not

[worn sage]

HIIIIII!

[gray torrent]

ic

[worn sage]

how long have you been doing python @final cosmos

[dry pike]

and they have optional elif and else blocks that only run if each preceding condition was falsy and the current condition is truthy (well, else doesn't have a condition, but otherwise same)

[final cosmos]

i think last year i learned python for 2 months🤗🤗

[worn sage]

okay so you better than me at python

[dry pike]

I've been python idk like longer than

[final cosmos]

i think i forgot somethings

[worn sage]

I'm having that problem too

[vale wasp]

That's what search engines are for 😃

[final cosmos]

likes how to use def conditions

[worn sage]

I learned a lesson then I forget it

[vale wasp]

def is for defining functions. It's not a condition.

[dry pike]

you forgot more than you thought if you're saying "def condition" :)

[final cosmos]

ok tysm

[worn sage]

do you know the variables

[final cosmos]

i think i know that 🙂

[worn sage]

okay what is it

[warm field]

Try to make a python project that keeps your interest.
Also fundamentals are boring but can help tremendously as you grow.

[gray torrent]

technically wouldnt else's condition be the unfulfillment of the previous conditions or smth like that

[worn sage]

how are you supposed to make python projects if you forget what you learn

[gray torrent]

@worn sage banger name

[vale wasp]

elif is else if. else being what is run when the if is falsey.

[muted rampart]

You learn because of making projects 🙂

[vale wasp]

The learning will not stick without practice.

[final cosmos]

i can use some varible types like booleans and numbers

[gray torrent]

ik that

[spice hamlet]

if elif maybe melse else

[dry pike]

it's not an explicit condition like with if and elif

[gray torrent]

its the everything else option

[warm field]

You take a project and break it down into parts. Then you try to make those parts in python.

[final cosmos]

i think
if ...........:
do something
elif ..........:

[worn sage]

the integer strings boolean what else am I missing

[dry pike]

if cond1:
    f1()
else:
    if cond2:
        f2()
    else:
        print("neither ran!")
``````py
if cond1:
    f1()
elif cond2:
    f2()
else:
    print("neither ran!")

[final cosmos]

and else right

[gray torrent]

i know what elif is

[worn sage]

what is it

[dry pike]

good for you

[final cosmos]

the decimals in python*

[dry pike]

float

[worn sage]

oh yeah the floats I forget floats

[final cosmos]

i forgots what the names

[vale wasp]

decimal.Decimal

[dry pike]

sure, but they didn't mean that

[final cosmos]

i thinks

[warm field]

I learned through Gameboy advance modding/homebrew.
Needed some tools and python was the best option

[crisp jay]

Double?

[worn sage]

what game you mod

[final cosmos]

thanks but they answered is float 🙂

[dry pike]

?

[worn sage]

?

[gray torrent]

a combination of else and if
so if the previous condition didnt happen it checks its own condition

[final cosmos]

sry

[warm field]

Cannot answer that here, but gba is fun to mess with

[final cosmos]

i said mudadeoliveira

[worn sage]

why elif and not else if

[dry pike]

because that's what python did

[vale wasp]

contraction.

[final cosmos]

can i khow your time zone?

[gray torrent]

unnecessary lines
both do the exact same thing in the end

[dry pike]

I don't know my timezone

[dry pike]

it's not more lines to do else if tho

[final cosmos]

nah bro

[dry pike]

but I think it looks nicer to write elif. Python doesn't have else if anyways

[final cosmos]

i think

[gray torrent]

why do

else:
  if:
    ...

when u can do that in 1 line

elif:
  ...

[dry pike]

they were talking about how in other languages, it is else if

but python has a special keyword elif

[vale wasp]

Parsing elif is simpler than parsing else if - the latter requires additional logic.

[gray torrent]

oh sorry then

[worn sage]

no just write else if:

[final cosmos]

can i use elif in print()
likes print(...... elif ........)

[vale wasp]

No.

[worn sage]

I don't think so

[dry pike]

in JS, the {} are optional for if-statements, so it's literally like

if (cond) f()
else
  if (cond2) ...

like it's literally "else do this" then the "this" is another if statement

[fiery yarrow]

ah, optional braces for ifs. apple's favorite feature

[final cosmos]

🙂

[dry pike]

I make sure to always put braces for clarity (except when writing else if of course)

tho tbh I don't write many else ifs

[spice hamlet]

first one is the scratch method

[dry pike]

mostly just if statements with returns or breaks in them

[toxic meteor]

print("hello chat")```

oops

[final cosmos]

how can i make that script?

[toxic meteor]

with ```

[final cosmos]

ok i will try

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[toxic meteor]

[ put ur statement ]
end with the same symbols you started with

[worn sage]

print ( " hello " )

[spice hamlet]

print("Oh. This is nice.")

[final cosmos]

'''py
print("hello world")
'''

[dry pike]

backticks

not apostrophes

[final cosmos]

why it not work 🙁

[rare gazelle]

hello

[dry pike]

hell mtnjustme

[final cosmos]

oh

[spice hamlet]

copy `

[worn sage]

print ( " deez nuts " )

[final cosmos]

this `

[rare gazelle]

print(print)

[worn sage]

python is so hard bro

[final cosmos]

print(1)

oh thanks

it works

[rare gazelle]

u can even print(print(print(print)))

[worn sage]

no

[dry pike]

this channel sucks right now

[craggy trench]

it's actually pretty simple compared to some others out there

[final cosmos]

no you cant do that

[dry pike]

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**What's your favorite use of recursion in Python?**

Suggest more topics here!

[dry pike]

man of course, the worst topic

[worn sage]

.topic

[fiery yarrow]

based fellow recursion hater?

[final cosmos]

.topic

[worn sage]

.topic

[rare gazelle]

print(print(print(print)))

[fiery yarrow]

that's not recursion

[spice hamlet]

you can

[rare gazelle]

prove it

[dry pike]

recursion is ok in select scenarios, it's just a bad question

[final cosmos]

oh sry

[toxic meteor]

like a loop?

[dry pike]

nope

[toxic meteor]

ok

[craggy trench]

recursion can usually be rewritten as loops, yes

[worn sage]

print (print(print(print(print))))

[final cosmos]

what is #help-...

[spice hamlet]

go to #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[final cosmos]

print(print(print(print)))

[dry pike]

you can do eval command on the server too

just not in this channel

[spice hamlet]

k

[rare gazelle]

anyone can explain the prints?

not jay

[dry pike]

of course

[rare gazelle]

^

anyone except jay

[dry pike]

I'm kinda tweaking out tho so maybe I couldn't

[rare gazelle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/291284109232308226/1484750345023524884/image.png?ex=69bf5d03&is=69be0b83&hm=ab1bf9b53f84ef362f390f1bcdb1caa855cef336e7308d162137f4880b64a7ed&

[final cosmos]

why not jay?

[dry pike]

now see the print prints

[craggy trench]

this should print something like <built-in function print> None None '"\'None\'"' in python 2 with the print_function future

[spice hamlet]

the first print() prints <builtin-function-print> because it's printing print(0 directly

[rare gazelle]

because he probably knows

[dry pike]

I always know

[spice hamlet]

idk about the rest, but i know print() returns None

[dry pike]

except when I don't

[rare gazelle]

yeaa very nice

[toxic meteor]

input(int(print("hi\n")))```

[rare gazelle]

the return value of the print function is None

[toxic meteor]

…

[rare gazelle]

the first print prints the print function

[dry pike]

print print print

[rare gazelle]

the second prints the result of the first (None) and the third the result of the second (None)

[craggy trench]

typeerror probably

[toxic meteor]

and the second prints the prints to print the third print?

[worn sage]

what's harder learning C++ or making program language

[final cosmos]

the /n will create a new line right ?

[toxic meteor]

C++

[craggy trench]

making a programming language

[worn sage]

oh oh two people give me two different answers

[craggy trench]

depends on the type

[toxic meteor]

ye

[dry pike]

the answer is "or"

[final cosmos]

thanks

[verbal citrus]

learning to realize which of these is harder

[craggy trench]

if you're making something like a calculator language then C++ is probably more complex

[toxic meteor]

the slash is \n i think , not /

[worn sage]

I like how you think can you explain to me

[final cosmos]

oh

[spice hamlet]

correct

[final cosmos]

python is so hard

[toxic meteor]

took me a century just to learn to print text in C++

[final cosmos]

the internet said python is easy but its not

[toxic meteor]

and i forgot already

[rare gazelle]

print(print) gets executed first, which prints the print function (<built-in function print>) and returns None
then the print of that prints None and returns None
and the print of that prints None as well

[dry pike]

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**What's your favorite PEP?**

Suggest more topics here!

[dry pike]

all of them

[toxic meteor]

it is easy tho

[worn sage]

I forgot what I learned

[rare gazelle]

i didn't know u make projects

[timid ember]

There are legit 12 year olds out there that bootstrapped their own C compiler

[spice hamlet]

reset

[toxic meteor]

i cant think of any project i have finished

[final cosmos]

i think no

[timid ember]

Redo

[spice hamlet]

depends on what you're doing

[timid ember]

"Umm yeah. I like pep ###, it pretty niche."

[worn sage]

I know projects that would not would not impress anyone

[somber jacinth]

🤮

[craggy trench]

i mean yea

[somber jacinth]

Like?

[worn sage]

whats that for

[worn sage]

small converter projects

[verbal citrus]

as always, the answer is it depends, learning enough C++ is hard, learning how to make a simple compiler is hard, realizing that compiler theory is harder is hard, realizing that at a certain point enough C++ is compiler theory is hard 🙂

[somber jacinth]

The concept of making my own program seems sickening but tbh am a beginner

[final cosmos]

c++ is bit** hard

[craggy trench]

i like every pep 😇 except for the ones that are outside my skill tree and interests i HATE those why can't python have more interesting peps

[toxic meteor]

can anyone make C--

or C××

[spice hamlet]

&bit

[vale pine]

Command not found

Command "bit" is not found

[rare gazelle]

C+-

[spice hamlet]

C//

[violet cedar]

ok

[toxic meteor]

C##

[verbal citrus]

.topic