python-discussion

[cedar silo]

pythonation is a solid arabic python community if you need one

[slow rivet]

soooo, whats everyone working on these days

[past shard]

I am working on a slot machine

[cedar silo]

just messing around with some fastapi stuff lately, it's actually sick

[ember bramble]

I can't use the app properly; it's my first time. Could you please send me a link?

[slow rivet]

oh sorry to hear that, hope fastapi gets better /j

[past shard]

But it knows that gambling is bad and doesn’t work

[past shard]

get well soon

[cedar silo]

lol chill, pydantic v2 makes it pretty nice honestly

[grizzled solar]

Ashuh

[warm girder]

an sdlc kind of bot for code review similar to github one but for gitlab

wish there was a nicely typed async client for gitlab

[wise imp]

I set up my home "lab" (moved from DO to self-hosted (using CF free tier for the dns proxy thingy)), trying to finally get a blog up
I moved, cuz I wanted to get some more cores in case I need 'em and as I found out, the droplet (what DO calls a VPS) pricing is apparently per vcpu and I got like a droplet with 2 vcpus and it said 12 dollars a month, it was 24... anyway, the laptop I'm hosting it on now has a lot more RAM and more CPUs than I would reasonably want to spend to match in a VPS
so that was an adventure, had to set up a VM (I mean, my stack is dockerized, but still, wanted a separate and dedicated server machine), configured a WG tunnel for remote access, had to createa dynamic DNS service (literally what the ISP recommends when asked about a static IP)
fun stuff overall
I wanted to work on the blog system before I moved, but I moved cuz I wanted to have more resources for that blog system
so now trying to finally work on the blog itself

[past shard]

Now i get it.

[slow rivet]

nice! I host a bunch of home automation stuff on my rpi, surprisingly little resource usage when idle

[past shard]

this is how you got the role

[warm girder]

what home automation do you folks have

[wise imp]

hmm, I should maybe switch the host OS to Proxmox for that sweet monitoring (and VM management) stuff it comes with

[warm girder]

oh esphome

[slow rivet]

I mainly use home assistant, with a few supporting servers running along side it.

[warm girder]

whats the cf tunnel for

[slow rivet]

accessing all this remotely

[warm girder]

I see why not tailscale

[wise imp]

lemme find something

[slow rivet]

I already have a domain with cloudflare, so just easier setup

[warm girder]

oh fair enough

[wise imp]

no, actually, @shrewd pine

[gaunt badge]

Also a home assistant, with a zigbee network for most things.

[warm girder]

I would prolly just go with tailscale for having my devices on a private network

[wise imp]

eh, fine, I'll just share a screenshot

[warm girder]

thats cool sadly where I live a lot of home stuff isn't really smart so I haven't been able to mess around much

[warm girder]

damn 💀

[cedar silo]

that ai gearbox analogy is actually painful to read lol

[cedar silo]

ai driven gearbox is such a stretch for a vpn lol

[warm girder]

its just a wire guard wrapper (a nice one)

[warm girder]

how many servers/nodes do you have btw or are you just running proxmox on pi itself

[slow rivet]

This is just running the normal pi os on the pi with docker containers

[gaunt badge]

I don't have any built-in smart stuff. I just have smart plug and switches that I bought.

[slow rivet]

I made a DIY smart oven using a arduino and esphome, that was fun

[cedar silo]

nice you using home assistant for those or something else

[gaunt badge]

See above

[wise imp]

I should probably look into CF tunnel now that I see it mentioned...
cuz currently the flow is this

dynamic dns updates cf's records with my router's current public IP (I need this for anything to work really, but anyway)
when I want to connect remotely, I run a script that gets the origin IP from the CF API because it's behind the CF proxy (orange cloud, so I can't get it from the DNS records themselves), this script then updates my WG config file
then I up the wg if and can finally connect
but yeah, all of this means I have a port being forwarded from the router and the host to which the traffic is being forward to does no filtering of the connections coming in from that port, since I don't know what IP I might be connecting from

I suppose with CF, I could basically lock it down even more

[slow rivet]

with CF you wouldnt need port forwading at all, its a reverse proxy, and it has the plus of giving you https

[wise imp]

I mean, I have HTTPS between CF and origin right now already, but yeah, a tunnel would further simplify things I guess

[cedar silo]

ah my bad, zigbee is definitely better for local control than wifi stuff

[copper walrus]

I need help, I am making a hangman game but how do I make it like
Print this

H" _" _ "l o

[cedar silo]

you can use join with a list comprehension to swap hidden letters for underscores

[copper walrus]

But how do I do that

I am begginer

[cedar silo]

basically like ''.join([c if c in guessed else '_' for c in word])

[past shard]

yo

I am readinng this book called Hands-Onn Machine learninng and I just came across this Math formula that I don't understand a single bit of It's called RMSE

I can't properly copy it

[rapid bridge]

root mean square error?

[past shard]

yes

[cedar silo]

it basically tells you the average mistake your model makes

[past shard]

ohhh

[cedar silo]

yeah and since it squares the errors, it punishes big misses way harder than small ones

[past shard]

oh, and the mean absolute error??

[cedar silo]

mae is just the average error without squaring, so it cares less about outliers

[past shard]

oh, ok

[rapid bridge]

Given a numpy array y that represents the label (that is, the thing the model is supposed to have predicted), and y_pred representing the actual prediction of the model, the RMSE for that specific input would be computed as

np.sqrt(np.sum((y - y_pred) ** 2))

[past shard]

ohhhh , Thanks for the help, appreciate it very much !

[cedar silo]

you can do something like ''.join(c if c in guessed else '_' for c in word)

[past shard]

I have one more problem, the author often refferences shapes like : outliers are exponentially rare (like in a bell-shaped curve), the RMSE performs
very well and is generally preferred. annd : sometimes called the Manhattan norm because it measures the distance
between two points in a city if you can only travel along orthogonal city blocks.

[spare linden]

Hello guys, can I ask, how do you guys learn python? I feel stupid that I always have to google stuff and not remember how to solve problems 🙁

[cedar silo]

official tutorial is actually great, then just pick a project you like and build it

[spare linden]

How about leetcode problems? Like if I can't solve a problem, does that mean I should go back to basics? Or keep on trying?

[past shard]

no

[half pewter]

lol that is the correct answer

[cedar silo]

leetcode is mostly logic puzzles, just check the solution and learn if you're stuck

[visual juniper]

before doing leetcode , you should learn python a bit , get comfortable with list , string manipulation , using dicts , sets etc

[half pewter]

or just not do leetcode ever

[past shard]

Mr. Saul we have some frightening evidnce against u

[visual juniper]

then the harder problems you want to tackle, u might want to start doing DSA

[visual juniper]

if only interview process stopped asking about it...

[spare linden]

So all those list, string manipulation, better to learn through the official documentation?

But one major problem I face is that there's so many methods to a function?

Like dict. xxx()

You guys get what I'm saying?

[sage mural]

https://imgur.com/a/b8jYO34 in vscode I am getting 8 spaces when using tab why is this ? Please ping on reply

[visual juniper]

how much python do you know so far ? how did you learn it ?

[half pewter]

lol just walk out of the interview "get out of here with your leetcode bullshit"

[spare linden]

Or is that where I just learna and go

[visual juniper]

in today's market ? lol

[golden mortar]

I would not recommend learning the basics through the official docs. The official docs is a reference you use to look stuff up.

Learn the basics from a book or course.

[spare linden]

I feel like I know all functions, through university projects and courses.

[golden mortar]

You don't need to learn all the functions upfront. You learn them as you need them. A book or course will introduce the stuff you need gradually.

[spare linden]

How did people originally learn python if not for the documentation? And let's say I'm trying to solve a problem, like random guessing, instead of hard coding it, is it bad that maybe I just found out about the random function?

[spare linden]

I see, that's interesting

[half pewter]

in all seriousness though, saul is right, interview questions is the only need you're likely to have for leetcode challenges. In my professional experience, it's very rare that you'll need to write an algorithm yourself.

[golden mortar]

Presumably the people who made Python wrote guides and articles.

[visual juniper]

if you want to start at 0 , then pick a course / book
if you like youtube , go to corey schafer channel and go through his python playlist
if you like books , use https://automatetheboringstuff.com

and u said you dont remember when to do the dict.stuff() etc , you cant really memorize that , there is no other way than just writing code ,looking it up , doing this over and over again untill you start remembering it subconciously

[cedar silo]

check your editor.tabSize in vscode, it probably got set to 8, thats huge lol

[spare linden]

I feel stupid that I just use what's already available, for example the

import random

Get a random number between 1 and 10

num = random.randint(1, 10)

[cedar silo]

dont sweat the methods, you only really use like 5 of them daily, for the rest just use autocomplete

[spare linden]

Thakn you for the tips

[spare linden]

Got it

[spare linden]

True2

[golden mortar]

You don't have to learn how everything works all at once. It's totally fine to build on what others have made before you, and if you're particularly interested, you could look into how something like a random number generator works under the hood.

[past shard]

Autocomplete is the greatest innvention of the 21st century

[limpid meadow]

Everyone has to google things from time to time. Those with more xp maybe a little less but everyone has to check things now and then

[spare linden]

you could look into how something like a random number generator works under the hood

Yeah how do we look into something like this

[golden mortar]

You could try for example reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

[cedar silo]

yeah i still google basic syntax all the time, it is totally normal

[spare linden]

Damn, is this how people learn if they really wanna deep dive into something? I wanna deep dive into stuff constantly but don't know how

I guess it is the way

[golden mortar]

There's no single way to learn things, but Wikipedia is often a good resource.

[past shard]

You can also just google stuff like explain x code

[spare linden]

I see

[spare linden]

Alright cool I'm noting that

[golden mortar]

Where to look depends on what you're studying

realpython.com has tons of great articles on all kinds of Python topics

[visual juniper]

like , its good to know theory , dive deep
for example , you said about the random number generation , its good to know it
but u dont have to know it at the start , even the person who knows all the theory will do import random unless they have a solid reason to not use it

[spare linden]

Thank you I'm looking into this now

[golden mortar]

You only need to understand some general fundamentals

Like how seeding works and how a PRNG behaves. You don't really ever need to learn to implement one unless you're just curious.

[spare linden]

Understood

[cedar silo]

realpython is sick for deep dives honestly

[spare linden]

What are your opinions on full stack developer courses that promises you “to be a full stack developer guarantee” kind of stuff.

I’m always thinking about joining but I’m afraid that I can just learn it all by myself

[golden mortar]

I don't think it's worth paying for one.

[pallid garden]

i don't think it's worth the time

[inland karma]

yeah, knowing how a LFSR works is usefull, but you dont really need to actually use that yourself

[past shard]

You can indeed learn all by yourself

[spare linden]

Alright thank you @pallid garden @golden mortar @past shard for anwsering my questions, appreciate it very much

Hopefully after this I’ll be on a smooth learning path for Python.

Learning Game Development too, which is super fun 😉

[hollow citrus]

eivl did u see i published the spinner program as a package i named it image ultis maybe il add other stuff to the package like an image converter

[inland karma]

i did not see, share the full name please

[hollow citrus]

https://pypi.org/project/image-utils-spin/

[inland karma]

add some install docs and usage docs in the README would you?

add both pipx and uv

[hollow citrus]

no clue how to do that il check what that is right now

[inland karma]

i used uv above.. to install clii tools, you use pipx

but uv lets you do that as well

[spare linden]

Wait even codeacademy? I've seen huge discounts, and I think that's a red flag

[inland karma]

if i just use the command, i expect it not to give an error, thats somethiing you can fix to make it better

have you setup publishing to pypi via github?

[hollow citrus]

i added this on github aswell if that is what u are asking

[inland karma]

when you update your code on github, does it automatically publish a new version to pypi?

[hollow citrus]

i dont think so i think i have to do t hat manuallyt

[inland karma]

its something you can look into...

[shadow bear]

Hello

[inland karma]

hello

[kind oak]

I thought raycast for just for screenshots

[edgy dagger]

Hello

[kind oak]

it does loads of things

[edgy dagger]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

[kind oak]

وعليكم السلام

I dont think your suppose to speak arabic though

[edgy dagger]

كل عام وانت بخير
رمضان كريم

[kind oak]

علينا وعليكم

but actually stop, its not allowed.

[edgy dagger]

وعلى الجميع يارب العالمين

[inland karma]

I wrote an Issue on your github

[inland karma]

use english when you are here

[inland karma]

hey

but your doing really great @hollow citrus 😄

[kind oak]

@inland karma how to enable the thing where the screenshots are auto copy? (raycast)

[inland karma]

are you using the clipboard history?

[hollow citrus]

im not gonna like to use i used chatgpt to write my readme i did change some things its just ive never wrote a readme bbefore so i needed some help

[cedar silo]

all good for a first draft, just make sure to add a small code example showing how to use it

[hollow citrus]

im publishing the new readme its good now it uv and pipx as requests and usage examples

[hollow citrus]

ye i just did so

i gave 2 examples which is more then enough for a small program

[inland karma]

markdown is rich text, you write the format like you do here on discord

[hollow citrus]

ye i realized # hi

hi

[inland karma]

yes hi

[hollow citrus]

hi

[solemn rain]

i am going to quit programming

[inland karma]

# or bash commands 
rotate-image --help

[celest osprey]

why

[solemn rain]

because am not programming

[hollow citrus]

riught gotta add this thanks

saved me 5 minutes of having to delete the dist and egg and rebuilding

[hollow citrus]

i shoul;d put this in usage right?

[inland karma]

yes.. and one for install

pipx install image-utils-spin

and for uv

uv tool install image-utils-spin

[hollow citrus]

pipx install image-utils-spin

---

✅ uv

uv pip install image-utils-spin
``` i did already

[inland karma]

excellent

[hollow citrus]

this is installation

technically they can do ```
rotate-image --help/h

```or py script.py --help/-h```

[cedar silo]

nice, having that entry point makes it feel like a legit tool

[inland karma]

usage commands should be litterly true

rotate-image --help/h does not work does it?

[hollow citrus]

ye

il put a comment telling that they can use -h

instead of putting that in the ```bash xd

[upper dirge]

is there a shorter way to get "string".encode().hex(" ",-2)?

[inland karma]

i tried --help/h and i got an error saying unrecofnized argument. with a nice message :
usage: rotate_image [-h] [-i IMAGE] [-r ROTATE] [-s SAVE] [--force] [positional_image] [positional_rotate] [positional_save]

this is what you should have when you only do rotate-image

[hollow citrus]

✅ bash commands

rotate-image --help

or

py script.py --help

you can use -h or --help

good?

[dry yacht]

Isn't "string".encode() the same as b"string"?

[cedar silo]

yeah for ascii it is, but encode lets you handle different encodings

[dry yacht]

yeah, but you didn't explicitly specify an encoding

[solemn rain]

how to be smart

[dry yacht]

But I'm pretty sure there's no shorter way than .hex(" ", -2). The alternative I can think of would be with f-strings, slices and str.join...

[hidden laurel]

Hi. I got my friend some libraries via .whl files, but it's not working. would it work if i just sent him my py install's site-packages folder & told him where to put the files?

[hollow citrus]

@inland karma oh you meant by github i should do t his https://pypi.org/manage/account/publishing/

[slow rivet]

any reason they cant install the libraries from pypi via pip?

[kind oak]

wait

[hidden laurel]

no internet on his side

he only has a USB

[kind oak]

I think so @inland karma

[inland karma]

setup your github as a trusted publisher, and use github actions to publish when you make a new release. yes

[inland karma]

and your screenshots are not accessable from the history?

[hollow citrus]

k

[kind oak]

I didnt try

wait

[inland karma]

once you have done this once, you can use this repo as a guide for any other repo you want to do the same with

[kind oak]

nope?

[inland karma]

hmm... strange.. maybe we take screenshots differently

how do you take screenshots?

[kind oak]

command shift 5

[inland karma]

ill charge my macbook, and test

[kind oak]

then I tap on the screen

[kind oak]

alr

[inland karma]

i use all three

my main driver is linux right now

i have two macs, two windows laptops, one linux laptop and two linux desktops

and a bunch of servers in my homelab

[kind oak]

why

[inland karma]

its better for me to work on

[solemn rain]

can you give me one laptop 😭

[inland karma]

i dont think you live close to me

[kind oak]

good answer

[solemn rain]

joking. who gives his laptop to a stranger 😭

[inland karma]

i give away old hardware i dont need

[solemn rain]

you mean for free?

[inland karma]

why on earth would i charge for trash? yeah for free

[solemn rain]

rams are expensive

nowadays

[inland karma]

i have a few lying around! 😄

[solemn rain]

woh

[kind oak]

trash is a strong word, cuz its probably some mans tressure

[solemn rain]

how long you use a device before you replace it

[upper dirge]

the string in my code is in a variable

[inland karma]

yes, but for me its trash, i have to pay money to deliver it to the dump. hence.. i give it away

[inland karma]

around five years

[kind oak]

a laptop from 5 years ago is not trash

[solemn rain]

mine is 4

[inland karma]

ill put on coffee and you can come and get some! 😄

[kind oak]

m1 pro macbook released in 2021 is definatly not trash

[solemn rain]

but aren't you cautious of the hdd data

[inland karma]

i know how to delete it safely

[kind oak]

I dont like to take stuff for free

[solemn rain]

okk, i don't even give away my broken phone. thinking someone can hack my internal storage data

the phone is not turning on

[inland karma]

well, you can do lots of things in this domain to protect your privace, and batteries die after some time unused.

[slow rivet]

well depending on where you live there are trusted stores that take in electronics and will safely delete stuff and either re-sell it or properly dispose of it

[inland karma]

and modern phones has encryption on by default

[solemn rain]

true i still don't do that

[past shard]

You could sell those at ebay, or use them to run some bots.

[inland karma]

i have a home lab, i dont need to reuse old hardware

[past shard]

Wow , that's so cool.

[past shard]

How many pcs do you have in the lab

[inland karma]

i have three servers, and one of them is quite large

[past shard]

Wow, so you work from home , right??

[inland karma]

yes, but my home lab is my personal stuff

[shut marlin]

Here's a question i started learning python and my question is what is the best code editor currently i use jupyter

[past shard]

Oh, wow

[inland karma]

there is no best editor

its all personal preference

[shut marlin]

Hmm

[inland karma]

if you like jupyter, use that

[shut marlin]

Ok

[inland karma]

if you like the other notebook use that

if you like emacs, use that

and so on

[shut marlin]

I see

[past shard]

vscode, if you plan on using other languages and pycharm if you only use python

[inland karma]

every editor has its purpose

[shut marlin]

For now only python

[dry yacht]

i have three servers
How many chefs do you have to necessitate 3 servers?

and one of them is quite large
Not sure what one of your waiter's weight has to do with that

(Obviously joking, lol)

[inland karma]

some might be better depending on your situation, but there are no best one

[inland karma]

😄

[cedar silo]

vscode is a solid choice if you ever find notebooks a bit messy

[past shard]

Pycharm is great for beginners

[inland karma]

i would not say that

[shut marlin]

I see

[inland karma]

but that is up for an argument

[celest osprey]

preference really

[inland karma]

beginners should not be handed easy solution while they are trying to learn

it should be just easy enough to get you started

[celest osprey]

I liked vscode's simplicity but pycharm has a lot of good resources since it specialise in python

[inland karma]

and nothing more

that is why thonny is the editor for beginners, and the editor you should recommend beginners

[shut marlin]

Oh btw so i used to code in LuaU (roblox programing language) as its a game engine it had like an auto fill option doesn't python have something like that r does only jupyter editor not have that

[cedar silo]

oh yeah basically every editor has it, just hit tab in jupyter

[shut marlin]

Hmm it didn't work when i tried let check again

[desert oar]

VSCode is good with not a lot of extensions

[cedar silo]

you usually have to run the cell first so it knows the variables

[past shard]

Well then sublime text is the best EDITOR for beginnners since, it doesn't have any sort of code completion and you have to mannualy run a file

[wise imp]

what editor lets you run a file automatically?

[inland karma]

it is a very good and popular editor

[inland karma]

sublime text is great, but it is not tailored to be a beginner friendly editor

it is just simple out of the box

while thonny is

[desert oar]

I mean for beginners too
It is user-friendly and smooth

[inland karma]

i dont disagree, im just saying there are only two editors out there that is taileroed for beginners...

one of them is thonny

if you like it will depend on your preferences

[past shard]

and the other

[inland karma]

because thats what an editor choice is, personal preferences

pycharm is a specialist tool

thonny is a beginner friendly editor

[inland karma]

mu

[cedar silo]

pycharm is definitely heavy but the debugger is honestly worth it

[inland karma]

yes, it has a very good debugger

arguably the best debugger

[past shard]

WAS

I have never tried the debugger

[inland karma]

was?

[past shard]

German for what

[inland karma]

oh i see.. its very good, have you use any other?

[past shard]

No, I thought it would be useless

[inland karma]

i know german, it is also a word in english, so it looked confusing

[inland karma]

try pythons debugger

[past shard]

yes, I got the habit from a friend

[visual juniper]

the friend - "GOLD GOLD GOLD"

[inland karma]

if you put a breakpoint() in your code, python will enter the python debugger automatically for you

[past shard]

PEAK Reference cacth up

[inland karma]

or you can just use it normally

!docs pdb

[edgy kraken]

pdb

Source code: Lib/pdb.py

The module pdb defines an interactive source code debugger for Python programs. It supports setting (conditional) breakpoints and single stepping at the source line level, inspection of stack frames, source code listing, and evaluation of arbitrary Python code in the context of any stack frame. It also supports post-mortem debugging and can be called under program control.

The debugger is extensible – it is actually defined as the class Pdb. This is currently undocumented but easily understood by reading the source. The extension interface uses the modules bdb and cmd.

Similar names: ipython.pdb

[past shard]

Chat look at this pattern 668 AK

[visual juniper]

661*

[past shard]

Yeah, I don't speak ohnepixel

[charred tusk]

Oh hey evil you’re still awake

[shrewd pine]

Still?

[charred tusk]

6h15m ago I went to bed when he got here

[shrewd pine]

It's only 1 pm

[past shard]

random question

[charred tusk]

No need to ask to ask

[past shard]

why are global variables worse than local

[shrewd pine]

broader scope

[slow rivet]

because its much harder to trace everywhere they are modified

[charred tusk]

Hard to keep track of

[past shard]

oh

[slow rivet]

and in general its just easier to reason about a program when you assume a function only touches what you give it

[shrewd pine]

local variables in a huge function is similarly bad

[solemn rain]

because they takeup the namespace and objects will be having long lifetime.

[rapid bridge]

It also tends to make reusing functions more difficult

[cerulean ravine]

it's not really about the namespace or lifetime. Data created and used in functions can also have long lifetimes.

[solemn rain]

i mean it can like have unwanted things in the namespace. suppose in module B you have a bunch of global variables then in module A when you import module B all these unwanted variables will be available in the namespace

[shrewd pine]

I don't really see that as a strong case against globals

[cerulean ravine]

that is true, but it's something like third on the list of reasons to avoid globals

[upper dirge]

why is the first so much slower than the second?

[i%j or (s:=s+j,n:=n+1)for j in o]
for j in o:i%j or (s:=s+j,n:=n+1)```

[solemn rain]

because python interpreter got 🤯

[rapid bridge]

Given a large o, the first will reallocate the entire list multiple times

[solemn rain]

oh

big oh

[shrewd pine]

will it?

[pastel sluice]

read-only globals are okay. globals that have their meanings reassigned are hard to keep track of.

[cerulean ravine]

you've moved on from caring about low character count to caring about the other thing to not care about: micro-optimization 🙂

[dry yacht]

It depends I'd guess. If o has a known len then probably not

[shrewd pine]

how much slower is "so much slower" anyway?

[solemn rain]

i am learning turtle any tips

my school has turtle gui as an entire module

[shrewd pine]

(especially micro-optimizing in python)

[upper dirge]

this is still cause I want it shorter

[charred tusk]

But I gotta go fast!!
Like no one ever was!

[steady creek]

How can I learn the basics like in a hour or 2

[solemn rain]

!res

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[charred tusk]

Harvard’s CS50

[celest osprey]

basics is very general, and how fast people learn varies

[solemn rain]

thats not 2hrs

[pallid garden]

you need to first learn C for 10 years

[inland karma]

do you already know programming?

[solemn rain]

why

[pallid garden]

that way you can learn the basics of python in 1-2 hours

[cedar silo]

lmao if you want shorter just use any() or all() instead of building lists

[upper dirge]

the 2nd completes in 4400ms but the first barely reaches 8000 when I'm looping from 1-10000

[solemn rain]

i know the syntax i don't call myself a programmar

[desert oar]

💀💀💀

[steady creek]

What should I learn in !res

[pastel sluice]

can we not do this?

[dry yacht]

If you're interested in completely unnecessary optimizations I can recommend you this thread on the Together C/C++ Discord: https://discord.com/channels/331718482485837825/1473128500096663714
This is a guy trying to juice out every bit of performance of a simple string-searching program, despite the fact that he's already at his disk's limit of 5 GB/s anyway

[steady creek]

!res

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[solemn rain]

thats a very good idea

[upper dirge]

unfortunately idk any c/c++

[solemn rain]

anything you like

[celest osprey]

wild

[steady creek]

Im new to programming tho

[upper dirge]

I've been watching a few videos with C recently though and it's quite interesting

[past shard]

How to draw the mona lisa

[solemn rain]

you mean not learning C or not joking?

[past shard]

you can't

[upper dirge]

can I use either of them to make my code shorter?

[steady creek]

Should I learn lua instead of python?

[solemn rain]

start with basics

[pastel sluice]

joking about stuff like that in this room isn't a good idea, because there are people who know nothing about programming who may take it on face value. there are better ways to be funny and heplful.

[shrewd pine]

4.4s kinda suggests you're probably doing something inefficient to start with

[solemn rain]

your wish

[celest osprey]

The mindset shouldn't be "learn in a certain timeframe", different people take different time. If you really want to learn the language, it will take time

[steady creek]

Is it easier

[inland karma]

you should not think learning programming takes a short amount of time.

[solemn rain]

👍

[inland karma]

no, programming is hard

[upper dirge]

I'm getting the divisors of every number up to 10k

[solemn rain]

easy is a relative term. it depends on the person

[inland karma]

python makes learning programming easier

[steady creek]

I want to make games

[solemn rain]

yes learning syntax is easy

[past shard]

If you are a beginner python is the best language but it's still personal preference

[solemn rain]

like me

[split patio]

feel like this is a bit extreme

[steady creek]

How easy

[solemn rain]

python has pygame but it cannot make 3d games

[pastel sluice]

I've seen this happen way too many times myself.

[solemn rain]

python syntax is so easy almost like english

[desert oar]

bro there is no easier later
its better to start with what you will work on later

[cedar silo]

for games you can start with pygame, it's pretty chill for beginners

[pastel sluice]

we're here to help people, not to get laughs at the expense of their ignorance. that's how I feel.

[steady creek]

So why should I not learn that first

[cedar silo]

it really is, helps you focus on the logic instead of fighting with symbols

[pastel sluice]

@steady creek it's about as easy to begin learning either language. we're biased, we recommend Python

[solemn rain]

because its upto you. easy is a relative term i said

[steady creek]

Okay!

[desert oar]

I think go with assembly

[past shard]

See programming is a combination of problem solving and synntax

[past shard]

??

[desert oar]

what?

[shrewd pine]

You can do that quite efficiently

[solemn rain]

what

[past shard]

I don't think its good to start game development

[solemn rain]

you are wrong

[past shard]

??

[upper dirge]

I also want to golf it so instead of doing

for i in range(1,10000)
 for j in range(1,i)```
I'm just looping to 10k twice

that's the big slowdown

[solemn rain]

game dev is one of the best way to learn programming

[past shard]

I don't think assembly will be a good language for someone who doesn’t know anything about programming

[solemn rain]

making games involves logic you can understand

not business logic

[inland karma]

also one of the hardest things

[past shard]

and wnats to be a game dev

[pastel sluice]

even simple games like Pong have surprising complexity.

[desert oar]

you miss understand him

[solemn rain]

i don't mean graphical games

terminal games

[inland karma]

thats why recommending making a game is a huge mistake

[past shard]

I did not mean it like that

[spare linden]

You made pong before?

[solemn rain]

i thought u said game dev is bad way to learn mb

[pallid garden]

wait, how did assembly -> game development???

[pastel sluice]

yes, actually - here's a game I developed in Python https://xtaloid.itch.io/xtaloid

[past shard]

better than cod bo7

[past shard]

looks really fun

[spare linden]

Mind if I see the source code?

I’ve never made games using Python, only Godot

[cedar silo]

nah not bad just meant start simple so you dont get stuck

[solemn rain]

godot is more capable

[shrewd pine]

You're doing quadratic work for no reason and you're complaining about slowness 🥴

[past shard]

I meant to say you should not recommend assembly to someone who wants to get into game development and doesn’t know programming

[pastel sluice]

I don't have the source available casually, sorry

[solemn rain]

you mean its paid?

[pastel sluice]

I just don't have the source available, that's all.

[solemn rain]

can we monetize these games in pygame?

[pastel sluice]

yes

[solemn rain]

where

[spare linden]

Yeah it’s literally a game engine, but making a game through Python impresses me alot since it’’s not made for game development

[pastel sluice]

by selling them yourself

[desert oar]

Guys,, what do you recommend for daily problem-solving practice?(platforms)

[solemn rain]

aahhh

[spare linden]

All good mate

[pastel sluice]

(actually, this was done through another library, Pyglet, not Pygame)

[hidden laurel]

i'm trying to get the blender package as a portable .whl file, but i dont see any on the install page. Do i have to build it from source or smth?

[pallid garden]

is "casually" a synonym for "off-hand"

[past shard]

What are the best tasks for python freelancing in your opinion

[shrewd pine]

The first simple thing is that you only need to loop to the sqrt and then d and n//d are divisors

[spare linden]

Oh that’s something new

[charred tusk]

Link the package

[shrewd pine]

And given you want all divisors in a range you can do even better with sieve based algos

[pastel sluice]

yeah, it's actually been around for a while, and I grew fond of it

[hidden laurel]

https://pypi.org/project/blender/

[spare linden]

I just thought of that too

[solemn rain]

i thought so

[past shard]

this is what sharing a server looks like

as you can see with the example above

[solemn rain]

making a script that scrapes upwork and apply for jobs.

[charred tusk]

Looks like it, yeah

That says it was last updated in 2019 for Python 3.5
I’d try to see if something newer is available

[hollow citrus]

@inland karma https://github.com/rick-rocks123/image_utils i think its pretty solid i think now it automatically updates from git to pypi also uv and pipx are here

[inland karma]

you have not done the trusted platform registry on pypi

[upper dirge]

wdym?

[shrewd pine]

if d is a divisor then n//d is too

[solemn rain]

what kind of pleasure the code golfers get from making code unreadable 😭

[upper dirge]

it's fun

[shrewd pine]

so you only need to check d <= n//d for divisor pairs

[hidden laurel]

well, i'm trying to get the blender package used in ursina. Is it required for ursina or not?

[pallid garden]

what kind of pleasure do golfers get from hitting a ball into a hole

[solemn rain]

aah maybee but i don't think so

[shrewd pine]

a sense of superiority

[solemn rain]

same question

[spare linden]

Maybe the measurements and calculations in their mind and executing it to prove the calculation is correct

Same like kicking a ball into the top corner of a goal net.

[solemn rain]

golf ball?

oh football

[shrewd pine]

(but the calculation in this case is highly inefficient)

[wise imp]

balls and holes, what more can a man wish for

[pallid garden]

what

[solemn rain]

wdf

[inland karma]

this is not something that will work, what are you really trying to do?

[wise imp]

hmm, really thought that would land better

[cobalt flax]

What does unresolved reference mean?

[spare linden]

You got it

[spare linden]

Sad

[pastel sluice]

Share the code where you're getting the error, and the full error

[pallid garden]

well you definitely hit it out of the golf course

[upper dirge]

this is what I got, I'm trying to see if I can get rid of the len

o=range(1,10000)
for i in o:sum(x:=[j for j in o if i%j<1])%len(x)or print(i)```

[cedar silo]

it basically means you're trying to use a variable that hasn't been defined or imported yet

[solemn rain]

where do you get this error

[wise imp]

evidently I hit it right into an alligator-infested pond where it was promptly chewed up

[hidden laurel]

a friend has a PC with python, but no internet or internet drivers on it, therefore using pip install ursina is completely unviable.
I want to send him the library itself using .whl files via a USB thumbdrive

[charred tusk]

I just looked up Ursina and I didn’t see Blender in the dependencies
Maybe it’s somewhere else in the tree?

[spare linden]

This gets me confuse, how do you read this, this symbols make me feel dumb .

How long did it took you of learning to learn this

[pallid garden]

it's not meant to be readable, it's meant to be as short as possible

[cobalt flax]

def get_guess(guesses):
    guess = input("\nGuess a letter: ").lower()

    while guess in guesses:
        guess = input("\nGuess a letter: ").lower()

    if guess not in current_word: # type(current_word) == str
        current_stage += 1 # current_stage (type == int) is unresolved reference
        print(f"Wrong! You have {5 - } guesses left!")

[solemn rain]

i use chatgpt

[cobalt flax]

i have current_stage though!!

[charred tusk]

phrasing!

[pallid garden]

this is what we call code golfing

essentially you try to solve a question with the least bytes of code possible

[autumn forge]

this kind of discussion is probably better-suited to #esoteric-python anyway...

[hidden laurel]

it's in the pypi page?

[pallid garden]

it's not meant to be representative of daily development

[solemn rain]

i think codegolfing can be useful skill in obfuscating code.

[spare linden]

Oh, I see.

Well that’s something

[pallid garden]

no one manually obfuscates their code

[charred tusk]

Where?

[pallid garden]

there's a whole stack exchange for it

[charred tusk]

Well
Some poor beginner saps have done it

[pastel sluice]

and the error?

[hidden laurel]

this? https://pypi.org/project/ursina/

[upper dirge]

it's a lot easier to read with proper variable names

[spare linden]

I will search that up thank you 😉

Damn using symbols to emoji is weird

[pallid garden]

it's not meant to be a tutorial

[spare linden]

Ah, is it suppose to be a game?

[pallid garden]

that's just where people post their challenges and other people solve it

[solemn rain]

using AI

[pallid garden]

kinda, yea

[past shard]

yo

[solemn rain]

yoo

[past shard]

I got a problem

[solemn rain]

whats ur problem

[charred tusk]

https://github.com/pokepetter/ursina/blob/master/pyproject.toml#L16-L22

[edgy kraken]

pyproject.toml lines 16 to 22

dependencies = [
    "panda3d>=1.10.15",
    "panda3d-gltf>=1.3.0",
    "pillow>=12.0.0",
    "pyperclip>=1.11.0",
    "screeninfo>=0.8.1",
]```

[cobalt flax]

line 53, in get_guess
current_stage += 1
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
UnboundLocalError: cannot access local variable 'current_stage' where it is not associated with a value

[autumn forge]

most answers on cgse use some kind of golf-oriented language anyway. It isn't particularly insightful unless that's what you're into

[wise imp]

what??? but I must optimize the production code for storage

[shrewd pine]

e.g. this runs in <200ms, rather than the 4.4s of the quadratic code

lim = 10000
for n in range(1, lim+1):
  d = 1
  divs = []
  while d <= n//d:
    if n%d == 0:
      divs.append(d)
      if d < n//d:
        divs.append(n//d)
    d += 1

[cobalt flax]

I thought python scope went L E G B

local, enclosed, global, built-in

[pastel sluice]

that's right - you don't have current_stage defined in that function, and my guess is it isn't available as a global variable either.

[hidden laurel]

huh...

[cobalt flax]

I defined current_stage earlier!!

[upper dirge]

I wish I knew how to use a golfing lang

[solemn rain]

whats that

[pallid garden]

microcode compiler devs be like:

[pastel sluice]

but you didn't pass it into that function, and you probably didn't define it as a global. pass it into the function

[wise imp]

would you like to learn a programming language?

[cobalt flax]

What if I make it global?

How do i do that

[upper dirge]

wdym?

[pastel sluice]

it would be easier to pass it into the function.

[wise imp]

APL

[pallid garden]

it's pretty crazy what people get up to

[pastel sluice]

and more recommended.

[solemn rain]

is there a language for golfing

[cobalt flax]

alr.

[pallid garden]

multiple

[wise imp]

yes, there's a programming language

[past shard]

I am trynnna learn lm with this book Hands-On machine learning and I am on the second chapter of the book and while tryinng to create a method to create a test set : ```py
import numpy as np
from zlib import crc32

def test_set_check(identifier, test_ratio):
return crc32(np.int64(identifier) & 0xffffffff < test_ratio * 2 ** 32)

def split_train_test_by_id(data, test_ratio, id_column):
ids = data[id_column]
in_test_set = ids.apply(lambda id_: test_set_check(id_, test_ratio))
return data.loc[~in_test_set], data.loc[in_test_set]

housing_with_id = housing.reset_index()
train_set, test_set = split_train_test_by_id(housing_with_id, 0.2, "index")

[upper dirge]

damn that looks interesting

my least favourite language I've ever had to use has gotta be prolog

[autumn forge]

they're often stack or array programming languages, so maybe start with Forth or J?

[upper dirge]

that shit drove me insane

[wise imp]

comes with requires an 800 dollar proprietary keyboard too /hj

[autumn forge]

there's also uiua, which has a cool website

[cedar silo]

check your parentheses in test_set_check, you're doing the comparison inside the crc32 call

[wise imp]

I am getting an error
that is rather unhelpful, what error are you getting?

[past shard]

Finally doing your job

My problem is solved

[solemn rain]

did u use AI

[past shard]

Thanks mate, appreciate it.

[upper dirge]

I might have a look at J, every golfing lang I've looked at before just seems impossible to learn

[past shard]

No why

[wise imp]

the /hj is because it actually costs only 400 dollars /s

[solemn rain]

nothing

what was the error

[past shard]

It's solved

[autumn forge]

while you're at it, check out the J source

[cobalt flax]

Why is it that my code didnt work but this does? ```py
variable = "hi"

def hi_printer():
print(variable)

hi_printer()

[autumn forge]

really gives you an insight into the mind of its creator

[upper dirge]

what was APL useful for if it requires a custom keyboard? were they a lot cheaper back then?

[cedar silo]

you can read globals fine, but assigning to them makes python think they are local

[cobalt flax]

so like doing -= and +=?

[autumn forge]

yeah, having assignment in the function body is what makes Python treat it as a local variable

[solemn rain]

var = var + stuff

[autumn forge]

it is somewhat unintuitive

[past shard]

adress them as global variable in the functionn

[solemn rain]

it execute this from right expression

[cobalt flax]

and is the best way to assign a variable within a function making a parameter specifically for that variable to be passed in?

[autumn forge]

(unless, of course, you declare it to be global)

[cobalt flax]

oh hm

[solemn rain]

it sees var and it searches for var

[pallid garden]

dont use globals, it makes it really hard to track

[cedar silo]

yeah passing it as an argument is way better than using globals honestly

[solemn rain]

yea use a class

[wise imp]

they were cheaper, I think they went for only 300 dollars at the time...
useful? it's literally called a programming language, someone was just having fun (and wanted to make money selling keyboards I guess)
(nowadays, you can of course just change the keyboard layout digitally)

[cobalt flax]

but how do i use globals

[pallid garden]

you dont

99% of the time you dont need globals

[pastel sluice]

if your function relies on some kind of mutable state, you want to pass that state into the function

[pallid garden]

[solemn rain]

then it will be like prop drilling maybe not drilling

[past shard]

mutable stands for something that can be changed

[cobalt flax]

 global current_stage
        current_stage += 1
        print(f"Wrong! You have {5 - current_stage} guesses left!")
``` idk it looks nice

[pallid garden]

whatever

suit yourself

[solemn rain]

very nice

[pastel sluice]

it's a hack and should be treated as such. you want to pass current_stage into your function and get it back out again. if you have a lot of things that are getting mutated like this, you want to make an object to hold them and work with the object

[cobalt flax]

yeah but my function just wants to change one variable in this scenario

cant hurt too much to use global right?

[past shard]

It's like drugs

you only do this when prescribed

[pallid garden]

bad habit

[past shard]

solidifies my statement

[autumn forge]

generally it is proscribed though

[cobalt flax]

do you have an example where its bad?

[past shard]

It makes it so that a variable gets broader scope

[past shard]

look at this

[pastel sluice]

it's not a habit to get into. pass and receive values.

[pallid garden]

this problem worsens with project size

[pastel sluice]

the more you rely on globals to do anything, the more difficult it becomes to manage your project's state reliably

[cobalt flax]

hm ok

[pastel sluice]

and again, if you're passing a lot of values into a function, that's a sign you may want to contain all that state in an object.

[cobalt flax]

well if you're right i'll do the convoluted thing

[steady creek]

What should I learn as a complete beginner (know SOME things) to start

[autumn forge]

I think you just have to accept the wisdom that global variables are a bad idea

[pallid garden]

if your project has anything more than a few hundred lines, you are going to accidentally mutate global variables

[pallid garden]

it's not convoluted

[pastel sluice]

it looks convoluted at first, but it ends up being the better long-term choice.

[pallid garden]

you just havent learnt it yet

[spare linden]

This I can understand

[autumn forge]

as you build larger projects the choice to avoid global variables will make more sense

[pallid garden]

this is like saying python is hard because you havent learnt python

[spare linden]

Agreed

[cobalt flax]

yeah i shouldnt have that attitude about learning a convention that most programmers use

[pallid garden]

it's not even a convention

[cobalt flax]

i just started using snake_case with this project im doing actually

[pastel sluice]

it's a common thing to encounter when learning this stuff.

[pallid garden]

it's objectively easier to read

[solemn rain]

!d globals

[edgy kraken]

globals

globals()```
Return the dictionary implementing the current module namespace. For code within functions, this is set when the function is defined and remains the same regardless of where the function is called.

[steady creek]

Guys I Said what should I learn as a big beginner to start.

[solemn rain]

!d global

[edgy kraken]

global

7.12. The global statement

global_stmt: "global" identifier ("," identifier)*

The global statement causes the listed identifiers to be interpreted as globals. It would be impossible to assign to a global variable without global, although free variables may refer to globals without being declared global...

[pallid garden]

where are people learning globals anyway?

what resource is teaching people about globals

[steady creek]

Guysss

[pastel sluice]

there's a lot of archaic and badly written teaching material out there that gets good SEO

[pastel sluice]

!res see the post following mine for some good places to start.

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[pallid garden]

im just worried that there might be some chapter on globals lurking somewhere in !res

[solemn rain]

learn python we suggested you

[pallid garden]

i hope there isnt

[steady creek]

I mean what should I start with

[pastel sluice]

there's discussion of it, but always in the right context.

[pallid garden]

alright

[pastel sluice]

pick a resource and start with it ,see if it's to your taste.

[silver plover]

Read this first #python-discussion message

[solemn rain]

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/

enjoy

[wise imp]

hey, globals are not inherently bad

[sullen dust]

Ig tutorials written by ppl who know how to use but dont really understand globals or any bad practice, it kinda gets the job done so they end up using it

[pastel sluice]

globals are fine when they're read-only

the less you mutate what a top-level name points to, the better

[pallid garden]

even then, it's not really well organized

[harsh anchor]

where would you put them?

[charred tusk]

Alright
Finally at work
Dammed maintenance decided to do the fire drill literally as I was walking into the building
Time to test the thing

[spare linden]

What thing

[pallid garden]

depends

but i always put them in some namespace

[wise imp]

didn't they just test it?

[wise imp]

yk a module itself is a namespace too

[harsh anchor]

like the global namespace?

[pallid garden]

yea

im just going to shutup

[solemn rain]

inside a class?

[harsh anchor]

what if it doesn't make sense inside the class

[solemn rain]

then inside the top level of the module

[charred tusk]

Uh... I feel like it's been a bit
But we have do them like quarterly

[wise imp]

oh, no, I thought the thing was also a fire drill and you wanted to do another one again

[charred tusk]

Oh, no, I got nerdsniped above

[solemn rain]

[charred tusk]

Oh I just realized
Yeah it's a "bring your own Blender"
You have to tell Ursina where Blender is
They're completely seperate

https://github.com/pokepetter/ursina/blob/master/ursina/scripts/_blender_scene_to_ursina.py#L13

[hidden laurel]

well i'm gonna disable internet rn and do a stress test to see if it's absolutely required

[edgy kraken]

ursina/scripts/_blender_scene_to_ursina.py line 13

blender_executable, blend_file = sys.argv[:2]```

[charred tusk]

It's not
It's only required if you use the Blender scripts

[hidden laurel]

kay

also i was gonna put modernGL as a .whl file, BUT it seems like it's not available

for py 3.14

i came on here & saw smth about building from source

so should i do that? and if so, how?

[spare linden]

Anyone here ever fix an issue in GitHub of a repository?

[cedar silo]

yeah all the time, you looking to make your first pr or what

[spare linden]

yep, definitely, never done it, it sounds fun

[cedar silo]

nice, best way is finding a repo you use and checking for good first issue tags

[spare linden]

Will look forward to it!

[supple eagle]

feel like im still a noob for it

don't wanna mess other people's codes

[cedar silo]

honestly everyone starts there, just find a small bug or typo first

[spare linden]

Nah I believe Github has something called branches that allows you to not disturb anyone's code

[wise imp]

that'd be pretty hard to do
practically impossible

[supple eagle]

rlly?

[spare linden]

Indeeed I agree

[cedar silo]

yeah you cant actually break anything, the owners have to approve your code first

[spare linden]

Yes Sir, they'll also review your code and give comments

[supple eagle]

makes sense
idk how i didn't thought about that possibility

[spare linden]

no worries, we learn!

[solemn rain]

i need guidance

[pastel sluice]

just ask your question

[solemn rain]

i have exams in python and am not studying

[wise imp]

but what if they need guidance not answers

[pastel sluice]

🙄

[solemn rain]

i am procrastinating

[pastel sluice]

close Discord

[solemn rain]

but i don't want to go and read my text book

its so boring

[pastel sluice]

we can't help you with that. that's on you

[solemn rain]

Colors and RGB Systems, A case study. Image Processing – Basic image processing with inbuilt
functions. Graphical User Interfaces – Event-driven programming, Coding simple GUI-based
programs : Windows, Labels, Displaying images, Input text entry, Popup dialog boxes,
Command buttons, A case study.```

[spare linden]

That will be a hard problem

[solemn rain]

this is what i need to learn

[cedar silo]

honestly skip the book, just try building a simple game or script instead

[solemn rain]

earlier chapters i completed in like 10mins because they were basics of python

now here comes graphics

[wise imp]

"basic image processing with inbuilt functions"?
what built-in functions are there for image processing?

[muted rampart]

The longer it takes to start, the longer it takes.

[wise imp]

I suppose you could conjure something up with tkinter, I'm sure it has a way to export graphics

[solemn rain]

but i don't get the panic. i feel overconfident

[wise imp]

unless you're expected to parse image files yourself

[solemn rain]

!d Image

[edgy kraken]

I don't think so.

No documentation found for the requested symbol.

[solemn rain]

ooh

[wise imp]

you're thinking of PIL.Image (probably?)

not a built-in though

!d PIL.Image.Image

[edgy kraken]

PIL.Image.Image

class PIL.Image.Image```
This class represents an image object. To create [`Image`](https://pillow.readthedocs.io/en/stable/reference/Image.html#PIL.Image.Image) objects, use the appropriate factory functions. There’s hardly ever any reason to call the Image constructor directly.

• [`open()`](https://pillow.readthedocs.io/en/stable/reference/Image.html#PIL.Image.open)

• [`new()`](https://pillow.readthedocs.io/en/stable/reference/Image.html#PIL.Image.new)

• [`frombytes()`](https://pillow.readthedocs.io/en/stable/reference/Image.html#PIL.Image.frombytes)

[solemn rain]

not builtin ?

[wise imp]

nope, gotta install it

[charred tusk]

PIL? no

[solemn rain]

so what should i do. should i watch yt on tkinter and turtle or read the boring pdf

[charred tusk]

Check out https://goodfirstissue.dev/

[solemn rain]

and it feels outdated too

[gleaming marten]

You should go study

[spare linden]

Thanks!

[charred tusk]

your textbook, to be clear
don't study the Python docs [right now]

[solemn rain]

am in python discord. so isn't it kind of studying

[gleaming marten]

Not when you're offtopic

[charred tusk]

you're 🤓

[solemn rain]

i am going to watch youtube

[gleaming marten]

(edited) 🤓

[cedar silo]

try coding along while you watch, it'll stick way better than just watching

[solemn rain]

i don't have a textbook am looking at some pdf notes prepared by my seniors

and it feels outdated

[solemn rain]

ok

[charred tusk]

[solemn rain]

i mean thats my textbook

which is boring

and outdated

and lot of text

less code

[cedar silo]

honestly just mess around with turtle and draw random shapes, way better than reading text

[dense hawk]

how to learn __mro_entries__ protocol alongside descriptor precedence rules without confusing myself about normal inheritance?

[astral osprey]

Hello there

[inland karma]

i see, you can just do that, why did you talk about blender?

[astral osprey]

I am new to this community
I am a python learner

Happy to be here
I am also ready for collectorative projects 😁

[hidden laurel]

cuz it said it was a dependency for blender on the PYPI page. figured later it wasn't required

[inland karma]

you can just download all dependencies from pypi and install them offline

[charred tusk]

Ursina has Blender listed in their README as an optional dependency so they thought it was required
But Ursina only uses Blender in scripts that take the Blender binary as argv[1]

[inland karma]

yeah, the blender package has been dead for some time now

but remember to get the right platform and version of all dependencies since you cant rely on pip @hidden laurel

[hidden laurel]

tested all the required packages

[cedar silo]

mro entries is basically just a hook for resolving bases, keeps it separate from lookup

[hidden laurel]

now i came here to get modernGL from the github page, since there's no version for py 3.14

how to install it from the github directory?

[inland karma]

does the git repo have a 3.14 version?

[wise imp]

what about the rest of the stuff they asked about?

[hidden laurel]

can't find one

[inland karma]

then you cant use 3.14 with moderngl unless you build it from source. but that does not mean you can use an unsupported version

i could build moderngl from source

[hidden laurel]

i mean ok

but i could also use pyopenGL maybe?

then again it feels much harder to set up

[inland karma]

i dont know what you are doing

[cedar silo]

descriptors are just data vs non-data, data ones always win over the instance dict

[inland karma]

if you already know how to write opengl code, then it does not matter much, if you dont know, i suggest you use moderngl

[hidden laurel]

right

my friend doesn't

[inland karma]

here are ursina and moderngl installed on 3.14

[hidden laurel]

soooo modernGL would be preferable?

[inland karma]

i prefere it, but i dont write much opengl

its simpler to use

[hidden laurel]

right

[inland karma]

just remember to get all requirements, and also do the installation on the same platform so you can see what requirements you need

[hidden laurel]

ig win10 amd64 follows the same need as win11 amd64

[inland karma]

thats a decent guess, i will assume yes

at least for these two simple things

[hidden laurel]

so modernGL and, for a fallback, pyopenGL

could i build from source on windows?

[inland karma]

you have to test that

windows will always be the odd one out

[hidden laurel]

well, how would i build from source on it?

[inland karma]

you clone the repo and pip install it

https://github.com/moderngl/moderngl/?tab=readme-ov-file#development

like described here

[hidden laurel]

by using git clone?

[inland karma]

correct

remember to do this in a venv, so you dont a mixup with your installed packages

[hidden laurel]

nvm

[inland karma]

here you see the result after building from source @hidden laurel

[hidden laurel]

uhhh

not building from source?

[inland karma]

but ofc, you have to do that on windows, or, distrobute and install from source

[inland karma]

yeah, i did that after testing that i could install it

i used setuptools and build to do it

[hidden laurel]

what i mean is

i opened git bash in the folder i wanted to clone it to

didn't work, said i didn't have the correct key

[cedar silo]

cool, just remember you'll likely need visual studio build tools to compile it

[inland karma]

you did not clone it correct

you should use the process i shared

[cedar silo]

use the https url instead of ssh, way easier if no keys

[inland karma]

and siince your using windows, you should just use your windows terminal

only repos you have ownership to, are repos you can clone with ssh @hidden laurel
thats why i shared the https version with you earlier

[hidden laurel]

it's working

[cedar silo]

nice one, glad it worked out

[inland karma]

remember to test the whole install from whl process in a new venv without internet

[hidden laurel]

ima just

pip uninstall everything i have installed already

[supple eagle]

loops are so op sometimes

[inland karma]

you can also just make a new venv

[hidden laurel]

cuz i don't use python much

[inland karma]

then a new venv is simplest

[hidden laurel]

how?

[cedar silo]

just run python -m venv .venv in your folder then activate it

[hidden laurel]

thx

[inland karma]

!venv

[edgy kraken]

Virtual environments

Virtual environments are isolated Python environments, which make it easier to keep your system clean and manage dependencies. By default, when activated, only libraries and scripts installed in the virtual environment are accessible, preventing cross-project dependency conflicts, and allowing easy isolation of requirements.

To create a new virtual environment, you can use the standard library venv module: python3 -m venv .venv (replace python3 with python or py on Windows)

Then, to activate the new virtual environment:

Windows (PowerShell): .venv\Scripts\Activate.ps1
or (Command Prompt): .venv\Scripts\activate.bat
MacOS / Linux (Bash): source .venv/bin/activate

Packages can then be installed to the virtual environment using pip, as normal.

For more information, take a read of the documentation. If you run code through your editor, check its documentation on how to make it use your virtual environment. For example, see the VSCode or PyCharm docs.

Tools such as poetry and pipenv can manage the creation of virtual environments as well as project dependencies, making packaging and installing your project easier.

Note: When using PowerShell in Windows, you may need to change the execution policy first. This is only required once per user:

Set-ExecutionPolicy -ExecutionPolicy RemoteSigned -Scope CurrentUser

[inland karma]

this tags has all the details, iif pandaxxs message is not clear enough, you have to read all of this

all words

[dry yacht]

[foggy patio]

in this dummy code, (i am begineer in python) it shows an error for comparing int with lists:

class Student():
    def __init__(self, name=None, marks=None):
        if name is None:self.name= [str(input("Enter Name: ")) for i in range(1,4)]
        else:
            self.name=name
        if marks is None:self.marks = [float(input("Enter Marks: ")) for j in range(1,4)]
        else:
            self.marks=marks

    def sinfo(self):
        print(f"Name:{self.name}")
        print(f"Marks:{self.marks}")
    
    def remarks(self):
        ko=self.marks
        if ko>=90:  return "Excellent Work!"
        elif ko>=80:    return "Almost Perfect"
        elif ko>=70:    return "Scope for Improvement"
        elif ko>=60:    return "Needs More Effort"
        else:   return "Serious Underperformance"

    def grading(self):
        pass
    
print(f"Your Grade is:{Student().remarks()}")

[inland karma]

@hidden laurel how did you know what dependencies to pick if you did not use a venv already?

[inland karma]

something that is true needs to be stated often

[dry yacht]

Can you share the exact error message?

[foggy patio]

error

Enter Name: ss
Enter Name: ds
Enter Name: ds
Enter Marks: 98
Enter Marks: 56
Enter Marks: 12
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\Users\Srinjoy\Desktop\Untitled-1.py", line 25, in <module>
    print(f"Your Grade is:{Student().remarks()}")
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "c:\Users\Srinjoy\Desktop\Untitled-1.py", line 16, in remarks
    if ko>=90:  return "Excellent Work!"
       ^^^^^^
TypeError: '>=' not supported between instances of 'list' and 'int'

[inland karma]

well.. good luck, im off! ping me if there is anything more i should answer!

[naive ermine]

self.marks is a list of values, and you are comparing the whole list to a single integer value

[dry yacht]

Ah, but the error is that you're doing:

self.marks >= 90
```when `self.marks` (or `ko` as you alias it) is a `list`

[foggy patio]

how do i fix

[naive ermine]

Depends on what you want to do

[cedar silo]

try looping through the list and checking each mark one by one

[naive ermine]

Check if any of the marks are above a limit? Check if all of them? Check the average etc

[dry yacht]

Also why are you doing range(1, 4) instead of just range(3)?

[cedar silo]

maybe try sum(self.marks) / len(self.marks) to get the average mark first, yeah that should work

[naive ermine]

We don't know that they want to get the average though do we?

[hidden laurel]

wuh?

[foggy patio]

oh wait u can do that...
my school taught python to the absolute basic level so i decided to learn it on my own, guess they didnt even teach the basic of basic 😓

[cedar silo]

official tutorial is actually really good for catching those small basics

[dry yacht]

The range function takes 1, 2, or 3 parameters.
range(start, stop, step)

Some examples:

range(5) -> 0 1 2 3 4
range(2, 8) -> 2 3 4 5 6 7
range(0, 10, 2) -> 0 2 4 6 8

[hidden laurel]

the other guy sent a github link to a setup.py or smth.yaml with the given dependencies

[charred tusk]

run awayyyy

[hidden laurel]

i mean

[charred tusk]

environment.yaml for Conda?

[hidden laurel]

it's not hard

[hidden laurel]

no i just remember it ended with ml

[wise imp]

how frequently do you tell others at your company to stop picking up random USB sticks from the ground and inserting them into company computers?

[silver plover]

Could it've been a .toml?

[hidden laurel]

it was

checked again

[charred tusk]

ah
pyroject.toml
That's much better

[silver plover]

Open a help therad then 🙂 #❓｜how-to-get-help

[dry yacht]

Also for IDE hinting stuff like this I would recommend you use type-hinting. E.g. if I just put this above the __init__ function:

names: list[str]
marks: list[float]
```then my IDE immediately gives me yellow warning squiggles for the `ko >= 90`, `ko >= 80`, `ko >= 70`, etc. lines with this warning message:
```py
Expected type 'list[float]' (matched generic type 'list[_T]'), got 'int' instead 

So this tells us the same thing as your error, but before we even have to run the program

[charred tusk]

Unfortunately that's literally part of our procedures

[wise imp]

to pick up random USBs from the street and plug them in company computers?

[silver plover]

At least they stopped putting them in their noses.

[charred tusk]

We use USB sticks to put datafiles into multi-million-dollar machines
One of the machines is so old it has a floppy->USB converter in it
The department supervisor literally just has a cup of USB sticks in their desk drawer

[wise imp]

at that point it might as well be a safety measure to actually use floppy disks instead

[charred tusk]

oh we have many

[dry yacht]

I hate USB-sticks. I never need them, until I need them for the most random thing possible, and of course by that point I have no clue where any of them are anymore.

[charred tusk]

I keep one on my key ring for exactly that reason

[dry yacht]

• the 2 that I do know of just don't work (properly) anymore

[wise imp]

I back up my most important files to usb sticks, which are highly renowned for their long-term data storage reliability

[silver plover]

And I'm going to bet they're not standardized (color or style) in some distinctive way, like "ONLY USE RED USB STICKS THAT SAY XYZ"

[wise imp]

just random usb sticks gathered from around various conferences probably

[charred tusk]

I also have two cups of them in my desk because another department's machines demand specific brands/sizes

[wise imp]

goes to make a cup of coffee
destroys data worth millions

[dry yacht]

I actually just did a backup two days ago. My dad had a spare 500 GB HDD from idk when, but it's still using USB 2.0 and it's LOUD

[charred tusk]

Nope, it's just like, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CL45M6HR , so they're all completely assorted

[silver plover]

That would trigger me. I'd at least have a clear policy with distinctive USB sticks such that they may only be used in machine A or B.

Do you want a stuxnet? Because that's how you get a stuxnet.

[charred tusk]

I meannnn

you know my job

[dry yacht]

Apparently the drive was built somewhere between 2007-2010

[hidden laurel]

btw i built moderngl from source

[wise imp]

you just know that shen is that one lone brick on the right side holding up all the cybersecurity demands of that company

[silver plover]

There's a great documentary on the use of unsecured 3d printers and similar devices

[hidden laurel]

how can i test if it works with a simple test .py file?

[cedar silo]

just try creating a context and printing the info, should show your gpu details if it works

[charred tusk]

I just watched the original Tron last week
It was nothing like the newer ones
I still need to go back and watch the rest

[hidden laurel]

uhh

[charred tusk]

How distinctive? I like these
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B096QZLG77

[hidden laurel]

how?

oh right

[hidden laurel]

do i make a py file with that? if so, how do i run it from the venv?

[silver plover]

Love that. "If it aint a dragon, it aint firing" or something catchier.

[cedar silo]

activate it first then just run python followed by your filename

[hidden laurel]

activated already

[cedar silo]

nice, just run import moderngl; ctx = moderngl.create_context(standalone=True); print(ctx.info) in a script

[charred tusk]

It wouldn't actually fit in the machines -- but I can dream!!

I'd totally buy 6in USB extensions just to use those

I may appropriate company funds on the upcoming April Fools day

[hidden laurel]

could i run from simply typing it in powershell?

[cedar silo]

yeah just do python -c "insert code here" or just open the repl

[hidden laurel]

intel UHD graphics 520

got it right

[copper walrus]

When should I start implementing UI (I'm 20 days in learning python)

[cedar silo]

get the basics down first, then try flet since it's super easy for beginners

[wise imp]

UI? UI is a pretty broad concept, it also includes terminal interfaces yk, so, anytime you're using input, you'r implementing a UI
now, maybe you meant GUI... (which is pretty likely) but anyway

[hidden laurel]

does it usually default to openGL 3.3 when the version isn't specified?

[dry yacht]

You're already implementing a UI whenever you call input.
You're probably explicitly talking about a GUI, i.e. a graphical user interface, no?
If yes, then you don't need to worry about that for now, as learning a GUI framework won't really benefit you in learning Python/programming for now

[vestal jetty]

Have you already done those projects you mentioned?

[copper walrus]

GUI
yes

[copper walrus]

What do you mean

[copper walrus]

Done (I think)

[brave blade]

okay guys; i made gambling simulator but there are 5 slots and multiple combos!
It's kinda long, so where can i share it???

[cedar silo]

drop it in a gist or pastebin so it doesn't flood the chat

[dry yacht]

Do you have a question about it?

[brave blade]

maybe

i want to improve it

[dry yacht]

I guess you can open a thread in #1035199133436354600 (read #❓｜how-to-get-help if you don't know how) and give it the Code Review tag

[brave blade]

uhh its too long by ~770 characters

[cedar silo]

just put it on a gist and post the link here

[brave blade]

how

[dry yacht]

https://pastebin.com/

[cedar silo]

go to gist.github.com, paste your code, and then just share the link here

[lucid agate]

has anyone gotten into an argument with their recruiter on the phone screening before? because what just happened to me is genuinely unbelievable…

[spring cipher]

What happened?

[orchid pier]

What's float?

[sullen dust]

!paste

[edgy kraken]

Pasting large amounts of code

So that everyone can easily read your code, you can paste it in this website:
https://paste.pythondiscord.com/

After pasting your code, save it by clicking the Paste! button in the bottom left, or by pressing CTRL + S. After doing that, you will be navigated to the new paste's page. Copy the URL and post it here so others can see it.

[brave blade]

I made it at school computer and i send it myself to gmail and i pasted it straight from it, if i didn't notice it would paste it with my FULL NAME.

[lucid agate]

man oh man, i start the phone screening at around 8:45 AM, and he starts off normal. He then asks me “tell me about yourself” which is standard and i start talking, i know in my head to keep it concise because they’re always busy, so i try to keep it under 30-45 seconds. Not even 10 seconds into me talking, he cuts me off telling me to speed things up…

i said “with all due respect sir, i haven’t even said anything yet and you want me to move on?”

He then asks me about how i used pytorch in my project, and as i’m explaining it to him, he completly shits on me saying “that was very poor implementation”…

[cobalt oasis]

Sorry that happened. I'd say its a rare occurrence.

[lucid agate]

Mind you, he has the github link and was more then welcome to check out the repository for my project.

[brave blade]

https://pastebin.com/60gAujzT

[severe sage]

It's kinda funny just how much quotation marks matter in Python. I had some code using findText on a QComboBox and was like "why isn't this working", and it turns out it was because I instinctively put down "-1" instead of -1. It's always the little things that get you.

[lucid agate]

i emailed HR instantly withdrawing my application

[severe sage]

Quotation marks and spacing are the Big Two deceptively important things, I think.

[sullen dust]

I dont think you need to declare credit as a global

[lucid agate]

@steady rain have you ever experienced anything like this???

[steady rain]

I had a pair of interviewers laugh at me once, but they were offering at most 60k for that position, so I didn't care.

and I could tell they were probably only going to offer 50k. that's like a poverty wage here.

[cerulean ravine]

I hope you also told HR why you were withdrawing it, with details of the interviewer's name and behavior.

[lucid agate]

i did, it’s astonishing to me how entitled some people can be.

also, isn’t it a senior devs job to tell someone if they’re project is shit or not?

[cerulean ravine]

it's possible he was being intentionally difficult to see what you would do, but I still don't approve.

[jade robin]

i've had that before, ended up for the better (got much better opportunities which i wouldn't have otherwise)

[lucid agate]

i came off respectful when he cut me off, i said “with all due respect sir, im not finished, ive only said my university” and then proceeds to shit on my project entirely😢

[pastel sluice]

I would not work for any outfit where the screening process consisted of trying to provoke me into an intemperate reaction.

[copper walrus]

How do I make it say _e whn u gues a corect leter
For my hangman game

[lucid agate]

anyways, i’m gonna remove my project from my resume and start working on a new one

[cerulean ravine]

if you like the project, keep it. have you shown it here?

[strange raft]

hey guys, do you know how can I revert a commit? Im in the github website.

[lucid agate]

i love the project but i haven’t shared it here.

[cerulean ravine]

if you share it here, you can get some friendly assessments

[subtle coyote]

what if someone stole the project 👀

[cedar silo]

just slap a license on it and you're usually fine

[celest breach]

You can only do that through GitHub if you have a pull request for the changes

[spring cipher]

Wow, that’s very unprofessional of them!

Sorry that happened

[cedar silo]

oh yeah for hangman just keep a list of underscores and update the index when they guess right

[ornate wren]

Its depends how he said that. Being direct and honest is not bad, if he has technical reasons and explains them too (estou dizendo em caso que ele não foi cuzão)

[sullen dust]

https://docs.github.com/en/desktop/managing-commits/reverting-a-commit-in-github-desktop through using this maybe

[cedar silo]

float is just any number with a decimal point, like 1.5 or 10.0

[strange raft]

Thanks for the help!

[jade flame]

does anyone use tab groups on chrome i dont see it anymore

nvm

[wise imp]

you want a literal underline under the character? in a terminal?
might need to use ANSI escape sequences then (or rich)
something like this

ANSI_UNDERLINE_TEMPLATE = "\x1b[4m{text}\x1b[0m"

word = "thing"
guessed_letters = {"t", "n"}

for letter in word:
    if letter not in guessed_letters:
        letter = " "

    underlined_letter = ANSI_UNDERLINE_TEMPLATE.format(text=letter)
    print(underlined_letter, end="")

print()