python-discussion

[sturdy rune]

Hi I am new to this discord, any threads for using ColabFold for folding antibodies?

[frosty oriole]

we don't have a channel dedicated for that, sorry

[orchid pier]

Damn I'm new idk those

[fair bough]

I’m learning os, reading ostep. Do I learn the basics of c for it?

[sturdy rune]

Np what's the most relevant for using python for antibody sequence and structure analysis. If there's not one, I can start

[vast temple]

also, how does hwnd mean handler

lol

[cerulean ravine]

it's not handler, it's handle

[vast temple]

oh

still, how does it mean handle

[cerulean ravine]

it's the handle to the window. Handle WiNDow

[cerulean ravine]

a handle was kind of like a pointer.

[vast temple]

ooh i thought the nd was from handle not window

lel

makes sense

does linux also use these handlers?

or are they only a windows thing

[cerulean ravine]

only windows, and it's a legacy of 16-bit operating systems

[vast temple]

a legacy of 16-bit operating systems?

so they're not a good standard?

[orchid pier]

How much does Windows cost

[tame hinge]

Probably something with hooking and spying on calls to the windows API and faking responses. Make a fake thing that pretends to be the windows API and keeps track of state and hook everything somehow to replace calls. Novel idea though.

[chilly shuttle]

Do some research. There's a lot of moving parts to a video game. Even indie solo projects.

[cerulean ravine]

handles were needed because of limited memory sizes

[vast temple]

how do handles help with that?

[cerulean ravine]

i forget the details, but they were indexes into a table somewhere, and the table had the addresses.

[vast temple]

and what does linux use then if im not bothering you

[cerulean ravine]

pointers

[vast temple]

and how is that different from using an id?

[cerulean ravine]

what is an id?

[vast temple]

its something that identifies something i guess?

and a pointer just points to something

by id i meant the handle xd

[frosty oriole]

i see what you're getting at but its not quite the same thing

[cerulean ravine]

these days a handle is just a pointer, but the name hwnd remains.

[vast temple]

okay

where do you learn all of this, just from working with it over the years?

[cerulean ravine]

yes

though i haven't used the win32 api in a very long time

[ornate wren]

as far i remember from win32 api, a handle is a dword that is not a pointer, its an ID

dword is just a 4 byte unsigned? (not sure) integer

[cerulean ravine]

originally it wasn't the win32 api, it was 16-bit, so the handle was probably a WORD.

[ornate wren]

Yeah, obviously win32 is still supported but i'm not sure which is the standard now with windows

Thank god i only use cross platform libs

[finite rose]

In old Mac programming before OS X, handle were just pointers to pointers. That let the memory manager rearrange allocations to make more room

[ornate wren]

but can you see how silly that implementation was? just map the handle id to the pointer or piece of memory holding whatever struct or data needed

[finite rose]

You’d get a handle to a chunk of memory, and if the pointer to the memory changed you could still access it

[shell marlin]

Doesn anyone know
How to add selectable points in mathplotlib

[cerulean ravine]

either a pointer to a pointer, or the index in a table of pointers. Either way, the extra level of indirection gives you flexibility.

[ornate wren]

yeah, but the later option is safer and better overall

this usage of safer made me feel like a rust enthusiast which i'm not..

Delphi (object pascal) / C++ background

[cerulean ravine]

idk which latter option you mean is better

[ornate wren]

"index in a table of pointers. "

[cerulean ravine]

in the original mac, the pointer was 16 bits anyway, so it might as well just be a real pointer.

[ornate wren]

all this time i was thinking about real pointers..lol

[cerulean ravine]

i'm talking about a time when a real pointer was 16 bits

or was it? Maybe i'm muddled

no, it couldn't have been, the first mac was 128kb

[ornate wren]

on 16 bits computers pointers were 16 bits as far i know

[cerulean ravine]

back to Python!

[velvet trout]

Thank you for your help earlier. I posted it on the #1035199133436354600 channel.
I would like your feedback too!

[ornate wren]

how huge a mistake would be to just jump to develop the endpoints of my application without any auth and then when its convenient add auth?

[frosty oriole]

pretty common tbh

[ornate wren]

I find its something that will waste my time and won't add to the general value right now

[cerulean ravine]

you can build whatever part first that you want.

[river quartz]

Hello, I have finished watching the CS50P course, are there any more popular resources for learning python?

[swift sparrow]

At this point it might be a good idea to do a few small projects to solidify what you learned in cs50p

[river quartz]

are there any recomendations?

[rocky gust]

tic tac toe

also

!fledgelings

wait is that the name of it i forgot

[finite rose]

Motorola 68000, 16/32. 32 bit registers, 16 bit address bus

[steel zodiac]

Why'd the picture change?

[cerulean ravine]

!kindle

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[rocky gust]

damn it i was close

[cerulean ravine]

#changelog

[steel zodiac]

I thought black history month was all month

[steady rain]

Yes, but we don't do the branding all month

[steel zodiac]

Yes sir!

[fiery yarrow]

surprising lack of bannables for bhm this year. wonder if june shall provide similar paucity

[pallid garden]

morning

[surreal knot]

is the branding worthwhile if it historically causes issues with "bannables"? /genq

i guess helpers wouldn't be in charge of that anyway, mb

[robust ledge]

Subjective. But it's important enough that it's been voted into existence by staff.

[surreal knot]

okay, thanks

[vale wasp]

Evening 😃

[pallid garden]

are test suites worthwhile if they cause issues during development?

[vale wasp]

Cause or expose?

[pallid garden]

think of it as a great way to debug

[runic flower]

Isn't that the point? Pain now instead of pain later?

[pallid garden]

exactly

pride month is another great way to debug the member list

[runic flower]

It is annoying when I'm doing rapid development and the tests aren't stable. But long term tests are critical.

[surreal knot]

i don't really love test suites but i think i get your point

oh right valentine's

[robust ledge]

This is quite off-topic but I feel it worth saying; The branding's primary purpose is not a filter or a test. It's to celebrate something.

[pallid garden]

right, right it's just a side effect

[vale wasp]

If the tests aren't stable you should probably slow down a bit before they get worse.

[robust ledge]

Yeah, while the branding can have ranges within a month the holiday reacts are month long.

[surreal knot]

cool

[pallid garden]

except AoC, which is apparently the entire year now

[vale wasp]

AoC - All of Code

[runic flower]

Development is still early enough that tests are being outdated not updated. 🙂

[pallid garden]

Annum of Code

[runic flower]

👍

[vale wasp]

That's a different issue. If the tests are not relevant than just ignore them.

[pallid garden]

i dont think you should just ignore tests

at the very least, triage them

[runic flower]

Which is kinda what I was saying. I added in some basic tests as i want the pipeline correct. But then I have to replace them if I redesign to hard. Still worth it.

[river quartz]

thanks

[vale wasp]

If you're in the process of rewriting the code and the tests aren't relevant they should be ignored/disabled.

[ornate wren]

never made a test in my life, i find it burdensome

[tight tree]

anyone here practice test driven development? It seem like the best way to do things for many things, but I am to lazy for personal projects

[pallid garden]

the thing about tests

[steady rain]

Do it now
Use pytest

[pallid garden]

i find that it's beneficial in helping me reframe my thoughts

[robust ledge]

I do, but not as an unbreakable rule.

[ornate wren]

i thought it could be useful to check if the premises are still true

[pallid garden]

often times halfway through writing a test, i would rethink my implementation

think of how i can refactor things etc

[sullen dust]

How do people usually host python backends?

[vale wasp]

What do you mean?

[robust ledge]

On a host, usually. Any computer or service that provides that feature. There are a ton if different hosting options.

[sullen dust]

I have a webapp i want to put on the web but how would I host the backend?

[ornate wren]

Maybe its useful to think about your code as "interfaces" - how the usage will be, how good they are at abstraction

[vale wasp]

I use Digital Ocean. Other people use Hetzner or AWS or other services like that. Depends who you want to pay. Or you could set up a server in your home lab and open the relevant ports that has security issues that you need to deal with and generally isn't recommended.

[pallid garden]

exactly

[cerulean ravine]

tests are really good at forcing you to look at your internal interfaces.

[pallid garden]

im not a god programmer i dont write good code the first time round, or the second time round, or even the third time round

so i find it quite beneficial for my development process

[vale wasp]

But recognizing that and iterating and improving is exactly what makes you a good programmer.

[sullen dust]

I was looking into AWS but remembered i'm broke, what's you experience with Digital Ocean?

[charred siren]

i am a god programmer ama

[ornate wren]

how different from public interfaces? the difference between internal and public interfaces are who owns the interface and how stable they should be right?

[vale wasp]

I don't know what makes one a "god programmer" though.

[cerulean ravine]

yes. but also, it's easy to not think about the design of your internal interfaces.

[vale wasp]

I've been happy with DO. I pay ~$5/month for the 1 droplet I need for https://bnet.boo

[pallid garden]

dime-a-dozen on linkedin

[vale wasp]

I get that but I don't get what it's supposed to mean. Programming is an iterative process and it doesn't matter how good you are, each pass makes it better.

[pallid garden]

im more worried that my tests arent comprehensive enough

than writing tests

[pallid garden]

all. the. time.

[ornate wren]

tests are also testing you, lol

[robust ledge]

I find that tests quickly point out where internal interfaces are either overly complex or needlessly trivial. Where I haven't broken things apart enough or where I've over abstracted. These are things that are difficult or impossible to see from the external interface.

One of my harder rules for myself is that if I can't test something, it's not ready to be committed.

[cerulean ravine]

there are tools to assess that

[pallid garden]

we already have codecov

[ornate wren]

yeah, that is useful, maybe i should try it in my new journey

[cerulean ravine]

then what are you worried about?

[pallid garden]

we are not doing fuzzing at the moment

[robust ledge]

Event with the last part said; it's not a concrete rule. Like all things, it depends.

[pallid garden]

so there are a lot of input that can cause issues that we are not testing

[orchid pier]

Yo I finally learned 1 thing bro

[vale wasp]

That's what coverage helps you figure out.

[pallid garden]

it helps a lot

but i realized that there are edge cases that i can miss sometimes

i cant think of a concrete example atm, sorry

[vale wasp]

There are always edge cases and it's really hard to find all of them.

[cerulean ravine]

perhaps you want Hypothesis

[pallid garden]

exactly

[vale wasp]

What's hypothesis?

[cerulean ravine]

property-based testing: https://hypothesis.works/

[pallid garden]

im going to suggest that we add property-based testing to the maintainers

[vale wasp]

Nice. TIL!

[frosty oriole]

hypothesis is great

[pallid garden]

my laziness in writing tests is overruled by the fear that im going to mess up the data of the ~30000 users

[void sphinx]

I think you can host that to render.com

[finite rose]

Motorola 68000, 16/32. 32 bit registers, 16 bit address bus

[pallid garden]

anyway i should stop yapping and get back to actually writing the tests

[vale wasp]

Have fun storming the castle!

[ornate wren]

its gets easier when you actually start doing

[robust ledge]

My laziness in writing tests is overruled by my laziness in needing to write all the fixes after I miss something. The lazier I am, the more stable my production code!

[vale wasp]

The good engineer is the lazy engineer.

[pallid garden]

another thing about tests: ive found it quite beneficial for other people to understand what your code is doing

because i find myself looking at the tests written by other people to understand the code better

ok i should actually stop yapping now

[bright shoal]

what good engineer drops the prod database?

@frosty oriole reference

[vale wasp]

How did you get that from what I said?

[bright shoal]

because Robin is kinda lazy

[robust ledge]

💯
Random team member contributing to something I maintain: "So, walk me through setting this up locally will you?"

Me: You want nox -s dev and nox, that's it. That runs everything you need. Look in the noxfile.py if you care to know how it works.

Them: .... I love that.

[bright shoal]

😄

[vale wasp]

I don't know Robin.

[bright shoal]

unfortunate.

[frosty oriole]

folk

[vale wasp]

The easier it is to run the tests and the lints and the type checks the better it will be.

[robust ledge]

Yeup!

"What do I have to do to be ready for a PR?"
Did you run nox? Did it pass? You're done.

[vale wasp]

Especially making it easy to run before it hits CI.

[wet fox]

I wish i could just write python instead of LaTeX for work

[vale wasp]

The one issue I've run into is that I work on a Mac and (for work) PROD is linux and that can, on occasion, cause issues that we can't test properly locally (but are properly tested in CI) which make life a PITA.
For the OSS stuff I've run into issues in Windows/Linux CI that I didn't have locally on my Mac.
So "It passed all the tests locally" doesn't always mean it will pass CI if CI does it properly.

[vale wasp]

Write Python that writes LaTeX?

[wet fox]

I tried writing an mcp for it

[robust ledge]

I haven't run into that issue with the folks that use Windows at work. It's a possibility though and one I'll happily spend a few hours overnight to iron out.

[wet fox]

Havent given it a real go in python though since it seems like id have to use a mainstream ai api to do it

[vale wasp]

The Windows stuff I've dealt with mostly is FS related. In the case that I hit it was the tests being written in a nix specific way.

[wet fox]

Local models on a mactop dont perform well enough

[robust ledge]

Oh wait, I have run into it at least once. I have a cli utility that "fixes" certifi certificates for operation behind the corp vpn. That one didn't play nice with Windows at first. Had to fix quite a few little oddities.

[rocky gust]

how do i take discord out of fullscreen

[vale wasp]

It's always something.

[robust ledge]

f11

[rocky gust]

ohhh

ty

[wet fox]

I also write on mac and deploy on linux but linux seemingly has less problems than my mac when writing

[robust ledge]

It was file (share|access) related too. Windows is so peculiar about that.

[vale wasp]

That happens sometimes. There can be some little idiosyncrasies. Such as AFS not being case sensitive while every other nix system is.

[wet fox]

APFS?

[robust ledge]

linux: You want to write to the same file as sixteen others right now? Sure, fine. Don't cry at me.

Windows: Excuse me, you cannot touch that file as someone--of whom I know not--was thinking about it at some point.

[vale wasp]

Yeah. Windows is weird when it comes to that.

[vale wasp]

Yeah.

[wet fox]

interesting

[vale wasp]

[wet fox]

I tried arch on mac and it was damn good

Too bad it lost support

Although id never try wsl

Would rather use a VM or just launch from a usb drive than deal with microsoft

pyright i think is the only microsoft i still use

Not even sure if its even theirs

[robust ledge]

WSL on Windows 11 is quite nice. Would recommend if needed.

[vale wasp]

I try to avoid Microslop like the plague. They turned a reasonable OS into malware. Deliberately.

[wet fox]

Yeah i have a vendetta for all the wasted time i spent debugging anything on there

Like how does a sound card not even work out of the box on a fresh install like wtf

Also why are their ISOs so huge?

Easily 25-30GB

Might even use steamos before using windows ever again

Off topic anywho

[frosty oriole]

true

[wet fox]

Is pyright owned by MS?

[pallid garden]

uhhh what

[robust ledge]

It's ~7GB, no need to be extreme.

[pallid garden]

it's like macOS size

it's not 20gb+

i remember win 10 being something like 4gb

iirc

[robust ledge]

I remember win3.11 being 7 1.44MB floppies.

win3 was even smaller!

[vale wasp]

7??? More like 15!

[sullen dust]

you're probably thinking after its extracted and installed

[wet fox]

I am

[vale wasp]

I remember sitting at the computer changing floppies so often to do basic installs.

[robust ledge]

Doom was ~15. Win3.11 was 7 floppies. Maybe nine if there was language packs included.

[vale wasp]

I remember some MSFT product back then being ~15. Maybe it was Word?

[ionic bluff]

insert disk 7 of 18 lol

[wise imp]

floppies? in python discussion? unimaginable

[robust ledge]

Could have! I just happen to have been moving the win311 install kit last night so I remember 7.

[pallid garden]

oh no

i thought of a better implementation

[ionic bluff]

for the youger ones... A floppy disk is the "save" icon.

[pallid garden]

ughhhhh

better now than after it's live on production

[wet fox]

!this

Fail

Give me Zen!

[vale wasp]

Fair enough.

[cold sand]

Hi, everybody

[vale wasp]

Why is that an "Oh no"?

[vale wasp]

🤣

[vale wasp]

Greetings and salutations!

[timid ember]

They had 1.4 mb of storage the size of your palm, and in less than 20 years, terabytes on micro sansdisk

Pretty crazy

[pallid garden]

it's significant work to write

[cold sand]

oh, @vale wasp Nice to meet you

[robust ledge]

I'm currently holding a 32GB thumb drive that's smaller than my thumbnail. Absolutely mind boggling. ((and it's not even that much storage in comparison))

[timid ember]

crazy

[cold sand]

It's general

[ionic bluff]

some say the printing press is the greatest invention in human history. Idk, the transitor is right up there.

[cold sand]

Waw!

[ionic bluff]

we literally walk aroud with star trek technology in our hands and we watch... tiktok or whatever kids do these days.

[sullen dust]

not all kids

[vale wasp]

But you've figured out how to make it better. Is it enough better that it's worth the effort?

[bleak moth]

The internet capable smartphone is better.

[pallid garden]

of course

[ionic bluff]

yeah i know just an old man yelling at clouds. We are still turning out engineers and comp scientist.

[pallid garden]

walk around with star trek technology... ssh-ing into my pc at home

[vale wasp]

I have 128GB on my lap.

[ionic bluff]

thats kinda like a teleporter if you squint your eyes lol

[timid ember]

Agriculture

or maybe fertilizer

[vale wasp]

The printing press enabled the scientific advancements that led to the transistor. Without the printing press knowledge would be much less readily available.

[wise imp]

dunno, agriculture was definitely more of a discovery than an invention

[rocky gust]

hey i'm technically a kid and I program (i'm 14 btw before anybody tries to report my message)

[vale wasp]

There you go.

[wise imp]

yeah, but where would we be without fire
of course the inventions stands on the shoulders of giants, but they still see further than before

[sullen dust]

whoever invented beds because its geneuinely irresistable in the morning at 7am

[pallid garden]

it's still annoying

[vale wasp]

Fire enabled agriculture which enabled civilization. The printing press enabled real scientific advancements and global collaboration.

[vale wasp]

But worthwhile.

[bleak moth]

That's okay. It just means you are more up with the tech than some of us here.

[timid ember]

I think it changes based on your definition of great, the very first discoveries are simple but allowed progression. First isnt super great or complex

[wise imp]

idk, greatness is not reduced by simplicity

are we still talking about Python?

[sullen dust]

that hit hard

[ionic bluff]

didnt mean to start a tangent. But I will say cause/effect is not really what I meant.

[vale wasp]

What we see as simple was not simple at the time.

[vale wasp]

Next time please start a cosine.

[ionic bluff]

just because a enables b doesn't be b didnt progress us forward.

more

[timid ember]

🥁 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[ionic bluff]

lets break out the proofs! everyone open your text book to page 23

[vale wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/the-penguins-of-madagascar-skipper-lets-just-say-mission-accomplished-mission-complete-gif-13645235385882756586

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**Have you published any packages on PyPI? If so, what are they?**

Suggest more topics here!

[vale wasp]

!pypi py-wordsearch-gen

[edgy kraken]

py-wordsearch-gen v2025.7.2

Command line tool to generate fun to play word searches.

Released on <t:1752024532:D>.

[vale wasp]

!pypi cooklang-py

[edgy kraken]

cooklang-py v0.3.2

Python Parser for Cooklang

Released on <t:1757633493:D>.

[vale wasp]

!pypi render-engine (This one I'm a maintainer on, other people started it though.)

[edgy kraken]

render-engine v2025.11.1

A Flexible Static Site Generator for Python

Released on <t:1763494120:D>.

[vale wasp]

!pypi re-plugin-pack (And this is plugins for Render Engine)

[edgy kraken]

re-plugin-pack v2025.6.1

Plugin pack for render-engine static site generator

Released on <t:1751053529:D>.

[robust ledge]

Yeah, it's wild. Partner just installed two 2TB ssds into the new computer. Just... what even will I need that for?

[vale wasp]

This was was used to create the word searches the PSF handed out at PyCon US last year.

[vale wasp]

I have a 2TB external drive attached to my Mac Mini because that was cheaper than adding storage internally.

[rocky gust]

just for fun i made a quaternion impl

!pypi quat

[edgy kraken]

quat v1.0.0

A simple library for working with quaternions and vectors.

Released on <t:1715282629:D>.

[rocky gust]

oops

wrong one

[vale wasp]

I actually logged into PyPI to verify the package names before I typed them in.

[rocky gust]

yeah im doig that rn

[vale wasp]

I'm actually thinking of modifying the word search generator from a CLI to a TUI - I think it will make it more usable.

[granite wyvern]

Well worth doing. There have been a few typosquatting attacks, even on PyPI.

[vale wasp]

PSF security developer in residence coined the term "slopsquatting" last year.

[rocky gust]

!pypi quaternionpy

[edgy kraken]

quaternionpy v0.1.1

A simple definition for quaternions

Released on <t:1764134705:D>.

[rocky gust]

this is mine

[vale wasp]

Nice

[rocky gust]

im also working on an api wrapper

[vestal jetty]

Oohh, my lib disappeared

[vale wasp]

That's not good.

[fiery yarrow]

disappeared from where

[vestal jetty]

I had created a library/framework called Con-re, which was used for testing, executing large commands, and managing specific parts; it even had its own language, called cr.

[vestal jetty]

I must have deleted it from PyPI.

[vale wasp]

So what happened that it's no longer on PyPI?

[vestal jetty]

But it was awful, I couldn't get it to work properly.

But it should still be on my Github :D

You can try it, but you'll probably find it unpleasant.🤣

[fiery yarrow]

i'm not seeing evidence that a package called con-re was ever hosted on pypi

[vestal jetty]

Bruh, what do you mean? I remember very well hosting him.

Let me see here, I made a project roadmap.

I hosted it on TestPyPI, according to the roadmap.

[vale wasp]

It sounds like it wasn't ready for the majors.

[vestal jetty]

It wasn't there, but it was worth a try; at least I learned more about creating terminal programs.

[fiery yarrow]

yours is called conre, without a dash, it seems, but i still don't see evidence of regular pypi having it. though my sources are not absolute

[vale wasp]

Even though I know better I still pronounce (in my head) PyPI as ππ.

[vale wasp]

There is value in that.

[fiery yarrow]

wym know better? that's one of the common pronunciations

[vestal jetty]

That's the one.

[vale wasp]

ππ is PyPy. PyPI is properly pronounced PIE PEE EYE to differentiate.

[fiery yarrow]

or they're both pronounced the same, differentiated by context

[vestal jetty]

Yes :D

[torpid sparrow]

i say piepie

[vale wasp]

I have been told that they should not be. By the people that run PyPI.

[vestal jetty]

Here it is: https://test.pypi.org/project/ConRe/

On TestPyPI, as I said.

[fiery yarrow]

ah, so it is.
getting people to follow that guideline, on the other hand

[vale wasp]

Getting people to follow any guideline...

[wise imp]

sounds like you got conned

[fiery yarrow]

first, i was right
second,

[vestal jetty]

Actually no, I just got confused, he was right :D
My package was on TestPyPI, not on PyPI itself.

[vale wasp]

And you added a - where there wasn't one.

[vestal jetty]

Yeo

*yep

[vale wasp]

Typign is hadr.

[vestal jetty]

In my project folder, there's a hyphen (-) in the middle.

[wise imp]

bold of y'all to assume I have any other context besides con-re

[rocky gust]

yae i htae ti

[vestal jetty]

Ofr eral

[somber comet]

guys I want advice for python project idea what should I build

[wise imp]

I just saw this message and saw an opportunity for a pun

[vale wasp]

So msot poelpe wlil be albe to raed tihs wihtout seroius isuse becusae the fisrt and lsat lteter and wrod lentghs remian the smae.

[vale wasp]

What are you interested in?

[somber comet]

cybersecurity, finance and I guess I can say Art

[vestal jetty]

I unfortunately didn't understand the pun.

[vale wasp]

Try doing some ascii art?

[wise imp]

con

[vestal jetty]

The "con" comes from "container".

😃

[somber comet]

true im just creating stuff for a portfolio since I already worked on a Remote Admin Tool, I created some cybersecurity tools for a portfolio project. Man I am just stuck right now.

now I am working on a API for invocing as a portfolio project with one of my buddies

[vale wasp]

So try something new and different.

[somber comet]

Thank you fellow python user

also I want your opinion is it really worng if I use AI for researching and looking stuff up but I am still thinking and learning?

[vale wasp]

You are the only one who can answer that. I will only say that you should not release code for use by other people if you do not fully understand it.

[somber comet]

the thing is I do

and plus I also contributed using my own code

maybe I am just overthinking again

[vale wasp]

If you release something into the wild you have a responsibility - to a point - to maintain it and address issues in it. You can't effectively do that if you don't fully understand it. That is the only point I am trying to make. LLMs are a tool and if you can use them effectively, more power to you. The issue I have with the code generation is that it tends to be overly complex and, therefore, difficult to understand and maintain.

[somber comet]

that part is true

this is why for me I always fact check it to see if it works since sometimes it can release redudant code

[river quartz]

i made Mad Libs from https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/202011/mad_libs

[wise imp]

mad!

[fossil shadow]

Hi

[timid ember]

!pypi climail

[edgy kraken]

CLImail v2.1.5

A Command Line Interface email client written in python.

Released on <t:1759794537:D>.

[timid ember]

Only one 💔

[vale wasp]

Only one yet.

[somber comet]

is that a teen programmer I cant believe it theres someone like me here

[vale wasp]

Greetings and salutations!

[timid ember]

Yeah

[somber comet]

nice to meet you fellow teen programmer

[vestal jetty]

Who knows, maybe one day I'll launch a real library on PyPI.

[vale wasp]

Not everything on PyPI is a library.

[somber comet]

I think I know what Im going to do for my next project

[timid ember]

All (python) libraries are packages but not all packages are libraries

[chilly trout]

yall arent the only ones 💔

[rocky gust]

yeah man

[somber comet]

theres more

[timid ember]

Icl i havent written anything in a really long time

[river quartz]

same

[somber comet]

is there a new code jam?

[timid ember]

Not yet

[somber comet]

whens the next code jam and what we going to do?

[timid ember]

It'll be announced at the time of the event

[chilly trout]

is there a project anyones workin on rn

[somber comet]

no im tryna find out what to do

its like I did everything what else can I do

[timid ember]

Im working on a vehicle dynamics sim

[somber comet]

tbh I may just go create a open source project ngl

[oak fulcrum]

Why is the logo a different color

[vale wasp]

See #changelog

[somber comet]

its black history month man

[rocky gust]

package manager, discord api wrapper and a http/ws server/client side lib

[fossil shadow]

Hi 👋
I’m learning programming.
Can I ask you a question?

[timid ember]

We should make a command !logo-color that just links to the latest post on #changelog icl

[oak fulcrum]

When has anyone ever remembered that lol

[vale wasp]

You just did.

[oak fulcrum]

W community

[vale wasp]

But I'll give you another one, on the house. 😉

[chilly trout]

go ahead and ask

[somber comet]

hey @chilly trout may I dm u?

[chilly trout]

sure, about what?

[chilly trout]

pretty cool icl

[somber comet]

im thinking of creating a project and im tryna get ppl

[chilly trout]

why are you writing a discord api wrapper though?

[chilly trout]

sounds interesting

is it paid because if not it depends how interesting it is

[rocky gust]

eh for fun

[chilly trout]

is it bindings to python

because atp why not just use discordpy

tbf discordpy is annoying asf to use

[rocky gust]

mine is gonna be a more easy to use maybe

[chilly trout]

do you have it on github?

[rocky gust]

yep https://github.com/sunset-hue/inkcord

[chilly trout]

is it literally sending http requests

idk how discord bot API works but cant you just bind the C library to python

[somber comet]

I lowkey js dont know what to create

crikey why is this so hard

[chilly trout]

rn im working on a game engine in cpp

pretty fun project

[somber comet]

in python though

[chilly trout]

you could always try to create one for youreslf

[charred tusk]

Why am I suddenly getting OSError: [WinError 17] The system cannot move the file to a different disk drive?
Let me sanity check my code

[somber comet]

I dont know cpp though I only know python

[chilly trout]

learn cpp

[vale wasp]

You're doing FS operations on Windows. Nuff said.

[chilly trout]

why even ues windows atp

[somber comet]

if Im already learning python, golang and js should I learn cpp I mean this can be good since i want to be a software engineer / cybersecurity engineer & red teamer

[charred tusk]

Path.move doesn't care about file system boundaries but apparently Path.replace does.
I don't remember why I used this method... move is clearer anyways, guess we're just going back to that

[chilly trout]

oh yeah no if your into cybersec id completely move to cpp

[somber comet]

I can add that to my list of tools

[vale wasp]

You should at some point but don't overload yourself.

[chilly trout]

i mean its personal preference but automating the exploitation of vunlerabitlies is much cleaner in c

[somber comet]

yeah thats the thing since its like python, golang and js is already good since i plan to be a SWE

[vale wasp]

We were kvetching about tests failing in Windows because of FS issues.

[somber comet]

im not trying to stress myself out here lol

[chilly trout]

i mean, if you know how memory works cpp is pretty easy

*once youve understood how programming languages work in general

[vale wasp]

A lot of software is written in C++. But you are young and do not need to learn everything at once.

[chilly trout]

*not as a begginer of course

[somber comet]

true

[chilly trout]

once point i will make is that in security research specifically you pretty much NEED to learn C

like no way around that

[charred tusk]

Might be Gipppity's fault
Gippity also said I can do this to launch a Textual app from Typer if no Typer subcommand is invoked
But now it's opening the Textual app on every run of the CLI and waiting for the Textual app to be closed before executing the Typer command

app = typer.Typer(name="Xio", invoke_without_command=True, add_completion=False)

app.add_typer(designs_app, name="designs")
app.add_typer(doctor_app, name="doctor")

@app.callback()
def tui() -> None:
    """Launch the Textual interface."""
    XiomaraTUI().run()

[chilly trout]

if your not doing some kinda security research youll be fine

[charred tusk]

I swear I had this before, I just can't remember how I did it

[zealous lion]

what can C do that C++ can't for security research?

[somber comet]

im doing a trade school for SWE they have a project where you have to learn a new language for the capstone project

but for now I just plan on prioritizing getting good with python and js (by building stuff of course) than moving on to different langauges to learn

[vale wasp]

I've never used Typer for CLI so I can't really help.

[chilly trout]

i said C while referring to cpp

its a habit for me to use them interchangably but i really should stop that

gets confusing

[zealous lion]

ah

[vale wasp]

They are very different.

[chilly trout]

yeah i know its just the name that sounds similar

when im not thinking ill call C c++

[vale wasp]

I know which is unfortunate.

[chilly trout]

or c++ c

[somber comet]

or I may learn c# or C++

since for this trade school they have you at least learn 1 other language

[vale wasp]

I would suggest C or C++.

[somber comet]

what can I build as a capstone project with C++ for backend?

[vale wasp]

I wouldn't use C++ for a web backend.

[somber comet]

or should I build a red teamer chatroom?

[rocky gust]

yeah

it's just so i can get some knowledge of working with API's

[vale wasp]

What is the definition of "capstone project"?

[somber comet]

no no this is for a trade school im applying to for computers

im not talking about using c++ for the web backend

[zealous lion]

you just need to use C++ as the primary language for your project?

[somber comet]

no

I can learn other languages for this capstone project

[zealous lion]

what does "backend" mean then?

I would find something you want to make and then find what language is best suited for that

[somber comet]

I am using node.js for backend and python

I at least want to learn 1 good enterprise language tbh

[zealous lion]

i'm very confused

[vale wasp]

Are you implying that Python is not that?

[somber comet]

no im not

tbh im js all over the place

[zealous lion]

what's your question again

[somber comet]

if im learning and almost getting good with 3 programming langauges should I study more

[zealous lion]

study what?

[vale wasp]

IMO I would focus on projects and pick the best tool for the project. That's how you study and improve. At some point you will find that the best tool for a project is a new language and you will pick up that tool and learn how to use it. The basic concepts transfer, it's the syntax that changes.

[somber comet]

im stressing myself out for no reason ngl

[vale wasp]

Probably. Common theme among humans.

[somber comet]

but I do need help

i coded a discord bot but im trying to get it hosted

[vale wasp]

I think you need some focus. It sounds like you're trying to do a dozen things at once and none of them are going well and it's stressing you. Pick one and give it some love, and then move on to the next.

[rocky gust]

wow this explains why I've been trying to learn new languages but always stop and move back to python after a couple days

[somber comet]

actually this was a bot that I have been trying to get hosted on for a while I was just stuck to be honest

[vale wasp]

OK. Hosting costs money. Not necessarily a lot but some.

[somber comet]

theres no free hosting

[vale wasp]

I can't say with any level of certainty that there is no free hosting. I do not know of any free, general hosting.

[rocky gust]

because at that point you're essentially losing money

[somber comet]

I should at this point try and host it on my old computer

[rocky gust]

keeping servers online has upkeep that's the reason why subscriptions are really prevalent in hosting platforms

[vale wasp]

Do you need something that people reach in to or just something that reaches out?

[somber comet]

?

[vale wasp]

Is it a web service that people call or something doesn't have an external facing API?

[somber comet]

it does have a API yes

but it sleeps and I have to go call it manually

im using render

[vale wasp]

So locally hosting means you will not be able to access it from outside your home network without setting that up - which is risky if you don't know what you're doing (it's really easy to misconfigure a DMZ or firewall.)

[solemn rain]

how to be good

[somber comet]

the API is being hosted on render the only issue is its sleeps

[vale wasp]

I pay ~$5/month for a simple droplet on DO.

[somber comet]

tbh I might as well just go host it on my own manually but I would have to make sure I dont get hacked though

[solemn rain]

aren't you able to host on the aws free tier instead i heard its completely free

[sullen dust]

DO have a free tier aswell btw

[solemn rain]

so why pay monry

[sullen dust]

More resources

[solemn rain]

i thought having a card is enough for billing with free tier

[vale wasp]

I might not have known about the free tier when I set it up or I might have decided that the free tier had limitations that I wasn't willing to accept.

[solemn rain]

ok

[austere cliff]

Guys I've read in Saas books that you should market before / while you build your product but what if somebody stole your idea?

[solemn rain]

suiii them

[austere cliff]

Well an idea isn't bound by "law"

[solemn rain]

you can get the patent

[sullen dust]

Unless u patent

[dusty ember]

people stealing your idea probably isn't as big of a risk as you think it is

[solemn rain]

in corporate i think its common

[dusty ember]

they aren't in corporate; building in public isn't bad advice

[solemn rain]

just look at these mobile phones copying apple

[austere cliff]

The case that I can think off is how a game dev studio that made Unrecord got their idea "stolen" by the studio that made Bodycam game

[sullen dust]

Plus alot of ideas have been done, youtube wasn't the first video streaming platform and netflix wasnt the first movie service

[solemn rain]

it all comes to the fact that who releases the MVP first

[austere cliff]

Doordash too

[sullen dust]

Tru the second movers advantage is always missed, people think because something has already been done they need to think of a completely new innovation

[solemn rain]

which was the first video streaming platform

[sullen dust]

Generally got no clue

[solemn rain]

you must have that one thing that makes you better than your competitor

[solemn rain]

yt was found in early 2000s

[sullen dust]

There was probably a few small video streaming platforms that never made it mainstream or close

But there is always the dodgy marketing stuff that helps these bigger companies make it mainstream

[solemn rain]

yt was not a bigger company it was bought by google..

[blissful orchid]

How's everyone doing today

[solemn rain]

i am so bad

[blissful orchid]

What's wrong mate

[solemn rain]

everything is wrong

[blissful orchid]

Hope it gets better then

Regardless, anyone here upto something lately? Anything cool y'all been working on

[frosty ingot]

I'm thinking of learning something like fastapi :D

[velvet trout]

I posted my code to be reviewed a few hours ago. Received no response under an hour. I think, people who have seen it must've thought in their mind: how could someone even code like that? 🥀

So yeah pretty much worse.

Writing the good, right code is hard 🥀

[robust ledge]

I think it's far more likely that someone looked for a direct question, couldn't find one, and moved on.

Full code reviews are time-costly endeavors.

[solemn rain]

what is window to viewport transformation

[velvet trout]

Makes sense

[pallid garden]

even single PRs are expensive to review

let alone an entire codebase

[solemn rain]

is it true that AI agents are making PRs

[robust ledge]

It's true for most PRs

[solemn rain]

open claw

so how can maintainers know that

[robust ledge]

How can maintainers know what?

[solemn rain]

maintainers allow these AI PRs?

[robust ledge]

Some do, some don't.

[solemn rain]

i thought everyone rejects it

[past shard]

yo, what do y'all think of using chatgpt in coding

[robust ledge]

There are very few absolutes, and even those are squishy.

[velvet trout]

The only code reviewer and assistant i have so far

[robust ledge]

I prefer to write code myself.

[past shard]

The only way, I use it for is error handling and refactoring code

[robust ledge]

You do you. It's not for me.

[past shard]

Yeah, I was just to curious to know your opinions

[vestal jetty]

It depends on how you use it. If you're going to write entire code pieces, I don't recommend it; you won't learn anything that way.

[last bison]

I just learned print("Hello world!") how much more of python is there

[solemn rain]

tab tab tab tab tab ...... tab

[last bison]

am so good

[past shard]

You only have like 10% left tbh

[vestal jetty]

But if it's for support, analyzing errors, answering programming questions, I recommend it.

[velvet trout]

It's a good thing for assistance, it sometimes helps, sometimes not. So you should be the main brain. Use it as an opinion provider. Not for copy pasting code.

I use it for variable naming when i am unable to, if this func/class is becoming too complex, is this an over abstraction? Am i breaking any principles, is there any std way or de-facto way of doing this, is there a built-in solution than making my own version, etc-etc.

[last bison]

dang am like a pro now

[past shard]

Yeah bro

[vestal jetty]

Good luck man

[last bison]

nah python can't be that hard right

[velvet trout]

Now try to make your own print, without using the built-in print. XD

[last bison]

wait what

[velvet trout]

Think think.

[vestal jetty]

No... It's not...

[last bison]

ooh like print("I love pizza")

[past shard]

Try to make a game that deletes system 32 upon losinng

[past shard]

yeahhh

[solemn rain]

easy

[vestal jetty]

Not that hard, use subprocess to do an echo "Text"

[last bison]

whats an echo

[solemn rain]

nah just do input("hello world")

[last bison]

input?

[solemn rain]

yah

[velvet trout]

Bash language's print

[last bison]

I thought there was only print

[past shard]

Its a stand in a series called jojo's Bizzare adventure

[vestal jetty]

lol

[velvet trout]

Big brain moment

[last bison]

oh yea I know jjba thats where muscular men fight eachother

[vestal jetty]

It's the function we use to create methods from scratch...

[past shard]

Yes

[last bison]

so you make a new print from scratch?

[past shard]

There’s also some women sometimes

[vestal jetty]

Big genius

[pallid garden]

tbh at this point idec anymore

[velvet trout]

I used to wonder, how python prints out to the terminal and why only the terminal? I didn't have the knowledge of std* variants.

I did a thought experiment, since it's written in C, it's probably using printf() or similar.

[pallid garden]

reject if it's bad

[last bison]

your right my bad look at dms

[past shard]

I don't like that part tho tbh

[last bison]

so how would you use input

[last bison]

joseph was cool what do you mean

[solemn rain]

now how does C print to terminal

[velvet trout]

Then i looked into github source code, and it disproved my hypothesis.

[last bison]

am on part 3 anyway so idk

[vestal jetty]

You need to go on bizarre adventures to learn.

[past shard]

No, I am talking about part 6 its when women show up

[last bison]

wait python is written in c?

[past shard]

50 day Egypt

[solemn rain]

change the topic

[last bison]

with jojo?

[vestal jetty]

Created by a guy named Jonathan "JoJo" Joestar.

!topic

[last bison]

jonathan joestar wrote c?

[velvet trout]

Yup

[vestal jetty]

Yep

[past shard]

yep

[last bison]

I don't know man he was too busy in egypt

[velvet trout]

CPython is the standard implementation of the Python programming language (as defined by its grammar and spec).
The full code is available on GitHub/python/cpython

[last bison]

so python came from c then what did c come from

[velvet trout]

Lots of my hypothesis about how python used to work and how certain things do that way were answered as i grew up and my brain grew to handle more complexity.

It was a beautiful phrase. The more i learn, the more I see how less & little i know.

[vestal jetty]

Assembly

[velvet trout]

In C, initially bootstrapped by earlier programming languages.

[pallid garden]

c was written in bcpl, and later, c itself

[frigid trout]

So I have this English Flimmaking project. And the teacher asked us to make a video for this topic. Should I make a slide show and just record that and do the remaining stuff or actually use the video software and make the thing needed? If I do print("5+5") it will return a string 55, right?

[last bison]

how does computers even understand code

[past shard]

010101010100101001010101111

[last bison]

yea but like how does that show stuff on my screen

[velvet trout]

Also a little fun fact, C doesn't have an official implementation reference like Python (Cpython) does. Its defined is a specification (if that's the appropriate way to say)

[vestal jetty]

They are translated into binary so the computer can understand them.

[past shard]

Then its translated back to us

[last bison]

oh I think those mean off and on right

[frigid trout]

A compiler compiles whatever we type and then it makes that into machine readable code like 1s and 0s

[past shard]

Yes

[velvet trout]

power of electronics

[vestal jetty]

Kinda

[frigid trout]

Did you see my updated version of the website project?

[last bison]

how does it even understand 101010101010101010101

[past shard]

Is that you in your pfp??

[velvet trout]

Those are just voltages , and even in that, electrons moving from holes

[frigid trout]

There are certain componenets in a computer and when it's on it gives 1 and when its off it gives 0 so like that.

[velvet trout]

Zeros and Ones (binary) are not even real language they understand. Its all game of electrons

[frigid trout]

I think so.

[last bison]

oooh

[velvet trout]

🗿

[last bison]

so its all just electrons?

[velvet trout]

Yes that's what i understand based on my research

[visual juniper]

always has been

[past shard]

*Insert Impressed GIF

[last bison]

saul goodman? I thought you were defending people that had rights

[past shard]

*Breaking bad intro intensifies

[last bison]

wheres the yellow tint

[visual juniper]

got bored of it , i now make circuits

[solemn rain]

i think you should understand that these code we write in languages are just txt files. the compilers and interpreters are the big dwags

[frigid trout]

With an Arduino?

[last bison]

that's cool

[vestal jetty]

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**What made you want to learn Python?**

Suggest more topics here!

[visual juniper]

no

[past shard]

With a box of scraps

[vestal jetty]

Cool topic

[frigid trout]

Because I realised that Game Development is not for me yet.

[last bison]

I wanna build airplanes and I think you need python to do that

[velvet trout]

And what's even mysterious is that electrons are the one of the fundamental particles, we don't have scientific understanding of what they're made up of so far. Theories like string theory are trying their best to understand them.

[frigid trout]

Same too.

[frigid trout]

Aeronautical Engineer?

[past shard]

I was bored

[last bison]

really?

[frigid trout]

Yes

[past shard]

Is that You in your pfp??

[frigid trout]

You need to know electronics, CAD and coding to be an Aeronautical Enginner

[vestal jetty]

I started learning Python after studying JavaScript :D

[velvet trout]

We just don't have an answer to why even stuff like this Exists.

[visual juniper]

for any kind of engineering degree the very first thing u need is math

[frigid trout]

I already know CAD and 3D modeling so yes.

[last bison]

I don't know much about planes but I think am good at math and its cool

[vestal jetty]

Basically, I started studying out of curiosity.

[last bison]

I know none!

but am willing to learn

[frigid trout]

This 3D modeling is the easiest to learn.

[last bison]

does tinkercad count

[frigid trout]

Since you don't really need to move or get real parts like electronics

[frigid trout]

Kind of? There's Fusion 360, I'm learning that now. Blender is good but not meant for engineering

[frigid trout]

There's a free license version for Fusion 360.

[last bison]

oh yea autodesk fusion

[frigid trout]

So it's like Tinkercad but more advance.

[last bison]

yea I got confused

[frigid trout]

I also used Tinkercad before

[solemn rain]

i think i lost my curiosity

[frigid trout]

I made a lot in it like a missile model.

[frigid trout]

It's okay.

[last bison]

nice

[frigid trout]

You can't really use Python 100% since it's mostly used for Data Science.

[solemn rain]

what if i don't focus on math

[vestal jetty]

This curiosity led to a job for me in another country.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[frigid trout]

Then become a Scientist.

[frigid trout]

What?

[solemn rain]

wow

[last bison]

I like math

[solemn rain]

the company gave u visa?

[frigid trout]

Is it the USA?

[last bison]

tuff

[solemn rain]

ii hate math

[last bison]

what math is it

[past shard]

🦅

[solemn rain]

all math

[last bison]

dang

[visual juniper]

then you will just have a hard time

math is the core of most engineering things

[solemn rain]

i score good marks in math but i don't like studying math

[vestal jetty]

I was born in Brazil, got a job in the United States after saving for a long time, passed the interview, and spent those savings on the trip. Now I live in the USA.

[solemn rain]

i do it for the sake of degree

[frigid trout]

There's an way to study maths

[frigid trout]

Now you have a pet snake

[past shard]

Brazil !!

[vestal jetty]

She died last year :/

[solemn rain]

compsci is different thats why i choose this

[last bison]

I just like it because you don't need to worry about anything else just the answer

[vestal jetty]

😎

[frigid trout]

Make it into a robot and revive it???

[visual juniper]

for example , in our electronics , we have to solve circuits and do circuit analysis
and when u actually start doing it , what do you know , its just math , differential equations , different transforms etc
there are subjects like signal processing which use transforms like fourier transform etc and which are all just integrals

[visual juniper]

you still need math for compsci , its not really that different

[vestal jetty]

I wish I knew how to create a robot snake.

[past shard]

This my first year in highschool chat wish me luck!

[frigid trout]

We all do. Then I could've made my cat into a Robot.

[solemn rain]

man i hate calculus so much

[vestal jetty]

Good luck!

[frigid trout]

Don't hit people. That's it.

[past shard]

hmmmm

Interesting remarks !

[frigid trout]

It's okay if you do it in lower classess but if you do it in higher classess it can cause problems.

[last bison]

don't worry highschool is cool and it's cool that you know python in highschool

[vestal jetty]

I've already made some robots that could walk on their own using Raspberry Pi and Arduino, but nothing very advanced.

[solemn rain]

for software development jobs you don't need these linear algebra calculus or geometry

[frigid trout]

How do I start Arduion? Which kit should I buy?

[visual juniper]

like it or not , you will have to learn it
although for compsci , unless u choose to go AI/ML route , you dont really need calc that much

[frigid trout]

I've made an Arduino project before which was an automatic plant waterer but I lost the that Arduino nano...

[vestal jetty]

Dude... Arduino uses C++ as its programming language, that's the hardest part.

[velvet trout]

Good luck! Stay chill & Sigma 😎

[visual juniper]

that doesnt mean learning them is pointless

if you are a mathematician , you probably will use a calculator to do all the math for you , that doesnt mean the math u learnt is pointless , you still need to know what to type

[vestal jetty]

My first Arduino was a Nano, too!

[frigid trout]

Yes but it's not pure C++ and there's a Python addon to code the Arduion I think.

[visual juniper]

no , no python

[vestal jetty]

I've never heard of it.

[past shard]

I am going to a rich kid type highschool bro

[solemn rain]

i mean what kind of pleasure do you get while studying maths. do you get an end product. you don't get a chance to apply your knowledge..

[visual juniper]

yes you do

[last bison]

well am guessing your a rich kid too huh

[past shard]

Well, You do get it

[past shard]

Nope

[last bison]

rip

[visual juniper]

solving a circuit literally involves solving an equation

for stuff like image processing , you literally have to apply math , thats the application @solemn rain

[last bison]

you can use it irl

[vestal jetty]

Currently... Yes, many areas of development use mathematics, both in the creation of algorithms and in the field of Data Science.

[frigid trout]

https://docs.arduino.cc/arduino-cloud/guides/python/. Maybe not what I thought.

[past shard]

Thats the point , all my friends going into the same school except for me

[frigid trout]

You can use probability for gambling.

[last bison]

damn I mean what if the people there are nice

[last bison]

correct use of math ❤️‍🩹

[velvet trout]

Math isn't as explicit as python and it breaks PEP8 conventions

[frigid trout]

Also should for my filmmaking project should I make a slideshow and record that or make the thing in the video software?

[past shard]

I mean there's a chance that the planet will explode

[solemn rain]

but thats just arithmetic. i am talking about these algebra,trigno,calculus,geometry,combinatorics.. i don't get any value from learning these i feel its time wasted

[last bison]

uuuuuuuuuh what if one person is nice

[visual juniper]

no , thats not just arithmetic
you actually use calculas , solve integrals , solve differential equations to get results in that subject

[past shard]

Yeah that might work well

[last bison]

just find that one person then

[past shard]

We all gave the test but only I passed and the school is pretty damnn good

[last bison]

you guys gotta do filmaking?

[visual juniper]

the question is "find the current flowing through this coil in the given circuit" and to solve that you probably need to solve a differential equation @solemn rain

[last bison]

yea if the school is good take advantage of it and you know python too so you can impress everyone

[past shard]

wass, should have stayed a lawyer tbh

[frigid trout]

It's for my English Project the teacher randomly told us this because it's also a group project and she doesn't believe that we will present it in front of the class. It's a new thing for me so I don't know what to do.

[solemn rain]

i think its too late for me to go back and sit on these basics and truly understand the applications. am going to complete my degree soon and i been just studying math just to pass exams

no time too

[frigid trout]

The topic is about the weather of two states of my country.

[visual juniper]

if you are already close to completing ur degree u should already know how widely used math is xd

[last bison]

what the? please don't say this is sophmore year

or maybe our countys are different so am good

[past shard]

Do what you think that you are the mosst comfortable at

[visual juniper]

im not saying you will find application for every math concept you learn , but that goes t rue for anything u learn , not just math

[frigid trout]

No it's highschool

[solemn rain]

yea but idk it do not feel interesting worth a headache

[frigid trout]

Our teacher is thinks we can do it

[last bison]

yea sophmore is 10th grade

[frigid trout]

No...

[visual juniper]

yeah if you are compsci you definately have the options to choose non math heavy routes

[last bison]

what do you mean

[frigid trout]

So should I make a slide show and record it

[visual juniper]

like web dev or whatever

[solemn rain]

i still don't have clear idea on logarithms and euler thing limits stuff

[frigid trout]

or make a video like those commentary YouTubers that you soemtimes see?

[past shard]

Yeah, if you are comfortable with slideshows you can do that

[frigid trout]

Will that look good?

[visual juniper]

you should know what log is at the very least 💀 ,how else would you know if O(N) is better or O(logN) for an algorithm

[last bison]

what does 0(N) mean

[solemn rain]

yea just basics its small than n

[past shard]

I mean, sure it will if you put the effort in it

[pallid garden]

i dont think that's basic math

[visual juniper]

for a person who is almost about to finish a CS degree ? it absolutely is

[pallid garden]

for any self respecting programmer, yea

[proud escarp]

thats very basic math

[visual juniper]

most people know what a log is even before they go to an undergrad degree
so i would very much call it basic math

[pallid garden]

theres no way they are in college

[visual juniper]

not like 4th grader math but still very basic

[proud escarp]

7th grader math

[past shard]

That's not 7th grader math bro

[solemn rain]

ik the basics but i don't know anything more than that. and i feel its not worth investing time and effort to it

[frigid trout]

The problem of using a slideshow is that I can see my mouse in the video

[pallid garden]

we must be using a different definition of college

[ashen cipher]

eh i can see 7th-8th

[pallid garden]

their definition of college is probably what we call high school

[proud escarp]

mm am i misremembering? i was doing logarithms in 7th grade iirc

[frigid trout]

What

[ashen cipher]

personally i learned about it (in school) was 9th grade with sort of a mini-introduction at the end of 8th

[frigid trout]

I'm using Microsoft Clipchamp for the video editing

[visual juniper]

if you gradutae high school i would expect you to know what a log is or have heard about it at the very least , doesnt matter if u learn it in 6th grade or 10th

[past shard]

well that's true but still not 7th grade, i was doing roots in 7th grade not logs

[pallid garden]

true...

[velvet trout]

Yup, console.log, pretty basic.

[pallid garden]

[visual juniper]

lol

[past shard]

Face palm

[solemn rain]

am not telling that i haven't heard of it. i am saying i never really tried to understand it

[frigid trout]

print("Hello")

[ashen cipher]

breaking: different places teach different concepts at different grades

[visual juniper]

oh that wasnt directed for you

[ashen cipher]

i think i learned set notation at the start of 6th

[velvet trout]

System.out.println("Hello, World!");

[wet fox]

2ˣ better than log anyway

[ashen cipher]

or 5th?

[velvet trout]

Explicit > implicit.

[ashen cipher]

switched schools and relearned it 2 years later

[wet fox]

obviously its java.lang.System.out.println

[ashen cipher]

java.lang can be implied

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**What is your favorite Python package?**

Suggest more topics here!

[wet fox]

i wrote all my java in college with explicit java

[ashen cipher]

!pypi imsosorry

[edgy kraken]

imsosorry v1.3.0

Sometimes it can be necessary to call upon the ancient arts...

Released on <t:1739593163:D>.

[wet fox]

like a masochist

[pallid garden]

imsosowwy

[velvet trout]

Even java doesn't follow its explicit philosophy properly. 🥀

[ashen cipher]

someone needs to port the current imsosorry code to lancebot

its not caught up with the state of the art

[pallid garden]

just use imsosorry as a dependency

[ashen cipher]

lmao the last release was almost exactly a year ago

[stray field]

So you also prefer using x.toString().concat(y.toString())

[ashen cipher]

sir-lancebot#1373

[verbal wedge]

GitHub

[sir-lancebot] #1373 Using imsosorry for uwuification

[velvet trout]

Uh no...

[ashen cipher]

rejected

[pallid garden]

why is it not planned?

we must right this wrong

[ashen cipher]

This repository is a learning tool for our community.

Installing a 3rd party package and having the bot be a thin command wrapper around it does not reach this goal.

Anyone is welcome to pickup the outstanding issues around the uwu command if they want to lean about discord bots, regex, or contributing to github repositories themselves.

[granite wyvern]

A logarithm is essentially the inverse of an exponent.

[pallid garden]

!uwu based

hmmm it's not uwu

[ashen cipher]

.uwu

[ashen cipher]

anyway i leave it to you to ameliorate the poor state of lancebot

[solemn rain]

yeah ik that and basic stuff. but my point is why do we need to learn all those formulas associated with it. and in calculus we learn a bunch of formulas again

its not worth the time

[granite wyvern]

So that you can combine these in combinations.

[solemn rain]

yes i hate that part. it feel its wasted effort on something you won't really use to make anything useful

[pallid garden]

there is a point at which you use something often enough that you dont need to refer to the docs anymore, you just havent reached that point yet

[granite wyvern]

If you're happy to derive it all from first principles, less memorisation is required.

[granite wyvern]

I'm fairly sure I've used everything I learnt in maths and the sciences at some point, one way or another.

[solemn rain]

are you software developer

[granite wyvern]

Presently.

[visual juniper]

for the forseeable future

[bronze dragon]

There are many, many applications of all of these. Including as a programmer, depending on what kind of programs you work on.
Maybe you don't work on those, so it feels wasted to you, but that doesn't mean they're useless in general. I think they should definitely be a part of a general technical education.

[pallid garden]

there were a lot of math in qm1 that i completely dont understand at all, and im just memorizing things without knowing their applications at all. it's not until the second half of qm1 and qm2 when i finally understand why those math were being taught

[solemn rain]

you guys actually took time to understand and study maths from basics during university? or your high schools or secondary schools were good that you understood how the concepts work without just memorizing formulas? i mean i just memorized the formulas for school i got good marks but i don't like maths

[granite wyvern]

I confess for some exams I rederived things on the fly in the exam instead of memorising everything.

[bronze dragon]

I guess that's why you don't like maths
I never really did particularly well on tests, but I feel like I got the intuition and concepts down pretty well. I'm comfortable applying them when needed

[pallid garden]

in university they were building upon what i learnt in high school

[visual juniper]

when i finished high school , i still struggled with the concepts lile limits , like i could solve an example if i saw one
but i didnt know what it meant or what it was doing
so i did go back t o learn it from scratch

[bronze dragon]

Real
That's not really a bad thing, it's just a smart use of your time if you can think and derive fast enough

[jade robin]

math is the one subject where you don't need to memorise everything in high school

[granite wyvern]

More that my memory is lousy. 🙂 And I hardly rederived everything.

[visual juniper]

once you have gaps in math , you have a really hard time to understand a lot of stuff that is built on top of it

and so u just start hating the thing in general

[bronze dragon]

I used to rederive nearly everything in my physics exams, to great success

[wise imp]

it's foreseeable

[solemn rain]

you a working professional?

[white nova]

Hello how's everyone doing?! I'm bored any fun python project ideas guys

[pallid garden]

that is WILD

high school i can understand

rederiving college physics in exams is WILD

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[solemn rain]

tbh i don't know what a limit is even now

[bronze dragon]

We didn't really have that many physics classes in uni
We had like one on waves (optical and mechanical), and one on electronic circuits

[wise imp]

if it's a 2 day on-site exam, rederiving does not seem that infeasible

[bronze dragon]

My HS physics curriculum was way broader

[pallid garden]

2-day on-site exam?????

[jade robin]

i was about to ask that

our exams were a few hours at max

[wise imp]

yeah, with like sleeping and everything, yk, the usual

[jade robin]

i would absolutely hate that exam

[past shard]

WASS

[bronze dragon]

Pydis when joke:

[pallid garden]

is that a joke?

[jade robin]

there are unironically contests which need you to stay there for multiple days

[solemn rain]

nice, i might have to re learn math but am not sure whether it would time wasted

[pallid garden]

hackathons are understandable enough

[past shard]

Longest exam i have given was 4 hours long

[solemn rain]

once i get out of university

[bronze dragon]

Yeah but you don't do that for uni or HS

[pallid garden]

exams???

[bronze dragon]

And they're not really exams, yeah

[jade robin]

sleeping in a multi-day contest is "wasted" time in a competition since you're incentivised to just not

which is just bad QOL

[solemn rain]

btech?

[wise imp]

our exams are usually 2 hours tops

[pallid garden]

how i won the pygame competition btw

[solemn rain]

ok

[bronze dragon]

Well, at some point your performance declines, so there's an optimum to be found

[jade robin]

even a declining performance is better than 4 hours doing nothing

or more

[wise imp]

that's debatable

[pallid garden]

the hours after sleeping might catch you back up

[jade robin]

well, unless it's 3+ days

[solemn rain]

i should have gone for medical science

where there is no math

[jade robin]

that's some copium

[wise imp]

and instead you have to memorise 3 800-page books cover-to-cover, word-for-word

[bronze dragon]

Reminds me of those doctors who published a paper in which they rediscover calculus in the 21st century

[solemn rain]

its difficult but its all connected

[jade robin]

huh

[solemn rain]

not some random words except pharma

[jade robin]

(a lot of random words)

[pallid garden]

oops spelled 2-Arachidonylglycerol as 2-Arachidonilglycerol? FAIL

^ this book is 1761 pages long

[solemn rain]

going to graduate in one year. i am planning to look for software dev jobs and hope they don't ask me what is the limit of this function in interview

[jade robin]

as long as it's not data science/analytics etc roles, i kinda doubt that will happen

[wise imp]

try not to apply to any Ltd. then

[solemn rain]

general everything like app/web/engineering

[jade robin]

lmao

[solemn rain]

so final take- learn math from scratch after uni maybe after getting a good job

i have to start making some

[deep dome]

Hello!

[solemn rain]

O(inf)

hi

[deep dome]

hi!

[solemn rain]

"An Idiot appreciates Complexity, A Genius appreciates Simplicity." 🗿

[deep dome]

i love this quote

[solemn rain]

i agree simple code is better than making optimized code

[pallid garden]

then i shall be an idiot

well, i already am

[deep dome]

overcomplicating stuff is bad

[past shard]

would you rather be an idiot who can do anything or be a genius who is useless

[pallid garden]

i am already the former

[solemn rain]

a genius is not useless.

!zen

[edgy kraken]

The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than right now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

[past shard]

He can be

[deep dome]

if a genius is useless then theres no point in being genius

[solemn rain]

even python agrees

[past shard]

well if an idiot can do anything it will be idiotic

[pallid garden]

im writing ts right now

[past shard]

Everything he does will be Idiotic

[craggy willow]

we're all the same genus

[deep dome]

troublesome