python-discussion

[silver plover]

This sounds like a db/er modelling question, not anything particularly unusual.

[pallid garden]

er?

[silver plover]

entity/relation

[pallid garden]

kinda

the faculty could delete or add lessons too

[grizzled wasp]

just for reference I'm paying not even 4€ a month for a 2 core 4gb ram 40gb storage vps, only concern here should be usability and to a lesser degree maintainability, as there's no way that amount of records should be hitting any machine limits

[shrewd pine]

you just need some identifier, you could try to force them to keep the same identifier as a course evolves, or when modifying something one could note somewhere "X is the modified version of Y" or whatever

[pallid garden]

correct

with my method:

try to differentiate each lessons by their class number

if that does not work

add the day

if that does not work

add the venue

so on and so forth

[fathom vortex]

that's exactly what i meant by having to do a lot of "guess work"

[pallid garden]

as you can imagine, this logic will be quite complex

[shrewd pine]

you can only do so much with garbage data

[fathom vortex]

[pallid garden]

so now the question becomes: do i add this

[silver plover]

the thing with a "course number" shouldn't be part of the lesson, it should (I think) be a separate relation table.

[bronze dragon]

would this mapping be easy to make for a human?

[shrewd pine]

pushing for making the data saner would be a good idea

[pallid garden]

hmm

the thing is, the method by which we get this data from the university is not stateful, it does not read the current database during ingress

the method (we call it scraper but it's more like API caller) runs without calling the API to access the previous set of data

i can see how you can map the old data to the new data and assign each unique a course number/id

i guess that's something to consider

[shrewd pine]

how should thing work between years?

is a course repeating annually the same course?

[visual juniper]

all of this will be so much easier to understand if we just got to see some examples of data lol

[shrewd pine]

is it completely independent? or is there a connection between the instances of the course?

[silver plover]

What about something like

[pallid garden]

uh wait

the timetable is something like semesterData

in https://api.nusmods.com/v2/2025-2026/modules/GEC1003.json

[fathom vortex]

i see a moduleCode in there

[visual juniper]

and the problem we are trying to solve is ?

[pallid garden]

this is one module, with multiple class number and each class number may have multiple lessons

[bronze dragon]

covidZone in 2026?

[pallid garden]

technical debt

[fathom vortex]

oh, so you're having trouble finding which specific lesson changed and in what way

there are no identifiers for lesson themselves

[pallid garden]

currently we are using the index in the list, which as you might imagine, is very unstable

[fathom vortex]

yep, can add or remove lessons

[pallid garden]

anyway so each student can have any combinations of these lessons for every module

[bronze dragon]

can you explain why a mapping needs to be made from old to new to begin with? I assume there is some (user-specific?) info which is stored against each lesson which needs to be carried over, but I am not sure what it is

[visual juniper]

so basically each student receives a semesterData that has schedule of all subjects and all lessons without any indicator for which subject it belongs to ?

i assume "one module" means "one semester" ?

[pallid garden]

@bronze dragon

[bronze dragon]

nah, each JSON is for one subject I believe

[pallid garden]

each module json contains multiple semesters

[pallid garden]

yea

[bronze dragon]

so... is it something like the course is offered simultaneously on (say) Tue/Wed and Mon/Thu tracks, and as a student I can choose to attend whichever?

[pallid garden]

any combinations of lessons, because the student might be Teaching Assistant

the string representation looks like this now: https://nusmods.com/timetable/sem-1/share?CS2103T=LEC:(27,47,49)

[fathom vortex]

so if an update happens to one of the classes which the student had assigned themselves with, you've to figure out the diff and get the updated value for what the student was assigned to.

Are the updates one at a time, or multiple at a time

[pallid garden]

we also want this share link to work across data changes by the faculty

[pallid garden]

kinda

obviously the implementation is not hard

but is it maintainable?

[fathom vortex]

this problem really surrounds around the lack of identifiers, isn't the most logical solution to add some form of identifier?

[pallid garden]

yea im thinking of how we might be able to do that

[fathom vortex]

it sounds like it'd break very often

[pallid garden]

why?

[fathom vortex]

you're pretty much guessing what changed

[pallid garden]

im assuming you are talking about this method

[fathom vortex]

yeah yea

[bronze dragon]

if you gave it to a human, would they be able to generate a correct mapping easily?
I'm thinking, since you have a large userbase, you could get the mapping crowdsourced

[fathom vortex]

what's the ownership of the initial json api, can you modify it or is it faculty provided

[pallid garden]

i will note that down as a suggestion

[pallid garden]

it's generated from a list the faculty provides

[bronze dragon]

also, 3 hour lecture from 1200 to 1500 is diabolical

[pallid garden]

the API is maintained by us

[pallid garden]

it's more like 1 hour with a break and another hour, in practice

i can see how you can generate an identifier from comparing the old dataset from calling the API and comparing with the new list

[pallid garden]

so im going to write that down too

[fathom vortex]

you'd have to maintain a db of states then

[silver plover]

And, if you need to, you can use similarity measures to try to cluster "like" lessons (if needed).

[fathom vortex]

w each lesson getting an ident in the beginning and modifications happening over the db like you defined

[silver plover]

But more importantly, the goal is to fit the data into a data model... so the focus should be: what end state (data model) do we want to end up in?

[fathom vortex]

or better yet, if you can write a script to port the faculty lists to have identifiers in them

[pallid garden]

this is the current string representation

[pallid garden]

we want to be able to make the string representation stable across data modifications

[fathom vortex]

there are no stable items within the size of unit of data to have a stable representation from initial to final unless you're tracking it all and providing them fixed uuids from the start

[pallid garden]

yes

and therein lies the question: "what is a good id/uuid"

it cant be too long

[fathom vortex]

randomly generated works ig

[pallid garden]

it wont work across data modifications would it

[fathom vortex]

or autoincrement on the db if you're using that to track it

[fathom vortex]

it'd be based off of whatever method you choose to track the changes

[pallid garden]

hmmm

ok, let me think about that again

[bronze dragon]

right now you're not storing the history of changes anywhere, right? you just have the present moment's schedule data

[pallid garden]

yes

though, while generating a new set of data, technically you could write some code to call the API to get the current set of data

[bronze dragon]

it doesn't seem like it would be a huge increase in storage burden to store a history of changes

[pallid garden]

i dont know

no one knows how much modifications the faculty are making

[silver plover]

Do they modify it during the semester?

[fathom vortex]

if not history of changes, you could have a db that poulates random uuid for a lesson at initial and then you update the db everytime you detect a change

only storing the uuid and the lesson

[bronze dragon]

even if they were issuing new schedules every week, that's not a lot of data from a storage POV

[pallid garden]

no, but they do during the course registration period, depending on the vacancy and number of people who are bidding

[kindred pier]

Hello

[pallid garden]

the university's API is not pub sub

[safe folio]

if I had a dynamic database and I am interested in getting the top 10 (positive and negative) values from a column, what data structure would be suggested? I was looking into heapq, but not sure if it loads all the data into memory

[pallid garden]

we run the "scraper" every hour (iirc)

[fathom vortex]

man, this problem is hard to solve

maybe the constraints so far don't allow for better solutions

[pallid garden]

if i represent the data as a "minimally-differentiable-identifier" i was thinking it can be stable enough

[fathom vortex]

isn't heapq a data structure? why wouldn't it be in-memory

[pallid garden]

actually

[silver plover]

How about "course-version" which increments if any lessons changed?

[pallid garden]

i suddenly had a revelation

for all normal students, we can just store the class numbers

[safe folio]

Sorry I miswrote, but do you have any suggestions?

[fathom vortex]

i think heap is the perfect data structure for your case, you want max and min right? and want it to be dynamic too

[silver plover]

What database engine are you using?

[pallid garden]

for the teaching assistants, we store the class numbers and some other bit of information, but if that changes beyond recognition, we just inform the user that the matching could not find the lesson that matches

[safe folio]

pgsql

[safe folio]

yes

[fathom vortex]

mm

[pallid garden]

because we can expect that a student wont have more than one or two TA modules, the string representation is not going to be very long

even with the extra bit of info, like venue or day

[fathom vortex]

yea

why not hash the identifier to make it smaller

[pallid garden]

the class number is like 2 chars

[fathom vortex]

oh lol

[pallid garden]

it's fine

that was the old representation too

[fathom vortex]

. 👍

[safe folio]

I guess I will try with heapq first 😄

[pallid garden]

as yous might have been able to tell, im quite averse to touching the API, because quite a few other apps have actually popped up that piggybacks on this API to work

[silver plover]

create table myvals as SELECT * FROM generate_series(1, 100) t(x);

with q1 as (select *, row_number() over (order by x) rn from myvals)
select * from q1 where x < 10 or x > 90

https://dbfiddle.uk/VbDqGApR

[fathom vortex]

oof

[pallid garden]

and if some changes i make causes some major issue, it's bringing down the entire ecosystem

[safe folio]

Thanks I will try this implementation as well

[golden mortar]

Didn't know about this tool, nice

[pallid garden]

ive just remembered

i also have to talk to the other peeps

about this change

since some of them also use this string representation

but at least the next release period is in 7 months

so we should have quite some time

[limpid phoenix]

https://youtu.be/XKHEtdqhLK8?si=WeqReQI8dUxWXIZ-

Guys should i do this course?

^

[pallid garden]

it's not recommended

[limpid phoenix]

Why so?

[pallid garden]

From: #python-discussion message
If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-osiE80TeTskrapNbzXhwoFUiLCjGgY7

[limpid phoenix]

Alr

[pallid garden]

the pedagogy leaves much to be desired because they only show the code and does not prompt you to actually think for yourself

[limpid phoenix]

Ohh

Right

[pallid garden]

quite a few people actually came to the server from the video

and they encountered an issue that they could not solve

because they copied the code wrongly from the video

ideally we want to help everyone develop the critical thinking skills to read and understand errors

and solve it themselves

[random bison]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1390196401983717398/1403518802494230528/minions-minion.gif

[tight rampart]

Hiiii I just started to learn python can someone help me a lil bit? Ty❤️

[cerulean ravine]

ask, people will help!

[brisk gazelle]

Specific questions help us to help you.

[tight rampart]

Where do I start from, started to learn python 2 days ago and idk where to start

[brisk gazelle]

!resources

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[golden mortar]

Automate the Boring Stuff is a really good book for complete beginners and it's free to read online: https://automatetheboringstuff.com/#toc
If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-osiE80TeTskrapNbzXhwoFUiLCjGgY7
I also recommend Harvard’s free online course, CS50P: Introduction to Programming with Python: https://pll.harvard.edu/course/cs50s-introduction-programming-python
This is an alternative online course with lots of integrated practice problems you can do directly in the browser: https://programming-25.mooc.fi/

[tight rampart]

Yo ty so much 🙏 ❤️

[pallid garden]

i should make a list of my own

this is way too long

[clear fable]

i made the pokemon game

then vsc just gave out an error and the file got marked red and lost 😭

not even in the recycle bin

i dont remember anything i wrote in it

[pallid garden]

oh no...

how did you delete it?

[clear fable]

i switched to zed there after

[clear fable]

I didn't do anything

[pallid garden]

what?

how is that possible

[clear fable]

For some reason, the file got strikethroughed

[clear fable]

I HAVE NO IDEA EXACTLY

I was so confused, I started typing print(bye world) without the quotations

[cold bronze]

hello everyone! I wasnted to ask a quick question, how do i check if something is an int or a float or a bool, I'm using a list

name_list = [
("name", "name desctription", int(1)),
("name 2", "name 2 desctription", float(0.0)),
]

for name, name_desctription, name_type in name_list:
  #idk what to do after this point

[clear fable]

if?

like if thisvariable==bollean

i've no idea im new

[opal gull]

use isinstance

[harsh anchor]

don't put non-numbers where the numbers are. then you don't even have to check

[pallid garden]

[cerulean ravine]

btw, int(1) is the same as 1, and float(0.0) is just 0.0

[cold bronze]

I'm working with blender and for whatever reason it gets mad at me when i don't add the type before

[cerulean ravine]

interesting. Can you show us more details about the bad thing that happens? I don't understand why that would be.

[clear fable]

i think i should work on my game now instead of playing cs 1.6

😭 🙏

[cold bronze]

i'm creating a custom property for an object, when it comes to int and float, nothing happens really, but when i try to add a bool, it turns into an API defined property and i can't edit it in the UI, I'll give you an example

[pallid garden]

you are using vscode now right?

try using vscodium

[clear fable]

im using zed

[pallid garden]

https://vscodium.com/

[clear fable]

rn im on zed

[pallid garden]

who recommended zed to you?

[cold bronze]

I'm a bit new, what does this mean exactly? :') thank you

[pallid garden]

zed is quite new, and it's not exactly widely recommended to beginners

[clear fable]

my friends

[golden mortar]

Four is too long?

[cold bronze]

I can't send pictures in here, but it doesn't return any specific error, its just to avoid from being locked out of being able to modify the custom property through the UI (cause API defined properties aren't editable in the UI), i just add the type before to avoid any unwanted lockouts (cause i can't even delete the custom property through the UI if its API defined)

[reef lily]

!d isinstance

[edgy kraken]

isinstance

isinstance(object, classinfo, /)```
Return `True` if the *object* argument is an instance of the *classinfo* argument, or of a (direct, indirect, or [virtual](https://docs.python.org/3/glossary.html#term-abstract-base-class)) subclass thereof. If *object* is not an object of the given type, the function always returns `False`. If *classinfo* is a tuple of type objects (or recursively, other such tuples) or a [Union Type](https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#types-union) of multiple types, return `True` if *object* is an instance of any of the types. If *classinfo* is not a type or tuple of types and such tuples, a [`TypeError`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html#TypeError) exception is raised. [`TypeError`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html#TypeError) may not be raised for an invalid type if an earlier check succeeds.

Changed in version 3.10: *classinfo* can be a [Union Type](https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#types-union).

[pallid garden]

For the attention deficit:

• CS50 is a widely recommended course here for fundamentals of programming with python
• Automate the Boring Stuff is a good, free book for beginners, goes into using python in many real life scenarios
• If you prefer Youtube, this playlist by Corey Schafer is good
• Regardless, you have to write code to actually learn, try these online practice problems

[reef lily]

not this shit again

that's what i got banned for last time

[cerulean ravine]

I could see why bool might need special handling

[reef lily]

sup neddy

[cerulean ravine]

not much Hoodster

[pallid garden]

i actually loled at that

[reef lily]

are you a real cpython guy

[cold bronze]

yeah bool does need special handling, but i don't mind adding the type before hand, if anything it makes it easier for me at least, me personally

[cerulean ravine]

certainly, but this seems like an odd thing to ask.

[cerulean ravine]

idk what you mean by a real cpython guy

let's drop it

[golden mortar]

That's nice. The last point is maybe a bit misleading, it's not a practice problem site, it's a full Python course with practice problems with editor and runner integrated into the course material.

[pallid garden]

I see hold on

[reef lily]

your taf

[cerulean ravine]

i think that snippet is long, but bullets would make it more accessible to the overwhelmed. Maybe also use markdown to make the links more implicit in the titles of the pieces.

[cerulean ravine]

idk what taf means

[golden mortar]

Good points, thanks for the feedback.

[pallid garden]

How about something like this?

• CS50 is a widely recommended course here for fundamentals of programming with python
• Automate the Boring Stuff is a good, free book for beginners, goes into using python in many real life scenarios
• If you prefer Youtube, this playlist by Corey Schafer is good
• Regardless, you have to write code to actually learn, try this course with practice problems and an editor for you to write and run code in

[strong star]

does anyone like to use kivy?

[cerulean ravine]

it's interesting to see us each develop our own custom "embeds"

[robust ledge]

I do hope at least one of them makes it into @edgy kraken

[pallid garden]

maybe we could make embeds like these version controlled

@edgy kraken would be a good home

[robust ledge]

I was under the impression that the existing tag embeds were in version control. As opposed to being in the database.

[strong star]

not one kivy py lib user?

[robust ledge]

What would you ask someone who claimed to be?

[golden mortar]

• Automate the Boring Stuff is a really good book for complete beginners and it's free to read online:
• If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good
• I also recommend Harvard’s free online course CS50P: Introduction to Programming with Python
• Python Programming MOOC 2025 is an alternative online course with lots of integrated practice problems you can do directly in the browser

How's that?

[pallid garden]

ah ok https://github.com/python-discord/bot/tree/b760fb6f70cf3130a3a026e52ede766fc1d0be75/bot/resources/tags

[pallid garden]

only change i might make is to change the I to we

[midnight orbit]

My b wrong place

[strong star]

i said this hastly not out of curiosity.

[pallid garden]

because quite a lot of people recommend CS50

[golden mortar]

I use "I" because this is my list

[pallid garden]

ah ok

[golden mortar]

I don't want to speak for other people

[pallid garden]

well, you can speak for me too

or you could just make it passive voice

[cerulean ravine]

nice! You have a stray colon at the end of the first bullet. (I would also use periods at the ends of the sentences, but I am old)

[golden mortar]

• @pallid gardenand I also recommend Harvard’s free online course CS50P: Introduction to Programming with Python

[pallid garden]

hahahaha

that caught me off-guard

[clear fable]

Hi, from where do I take the CS50 course. EDX or cs50.edx.org. I'm looking for free options

[golden mortar]

Just for you:

• Automate the Boring Stuff is a really good book for complete beginners and it's free to read online.
• If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good.
• I also recommend Harvard’s free online course CS50P: Introduction to Programming with Python.
• Python Programming MOOC 2025 is an alternative online course with lots of integrated practice problems you can do directly in the browser.

[bronze dragon]

comma after "tutorials" in the second bullet
comma after "course" in the third bullet
/pedantry

[pallid garden]

of course, we dont want to have to open a PR that is just 2 commas

[cold sapphire]

i have built a offline facebook clone (no ui just backend) what should i add next i have how to add friends and name and follow others with see your following etc and with bio and with login and sign up and friend request and chat(its random for now) what should i add next in python

[golden mortar]

Sorry, just ran out of fucks.

[pallid garden]

welp, send it to production

git commit -m "it's friday night and i have plans"

[cold sapphire]

say what should i add next?

[pallid garden]

can you post?

[cold sapphire]

yup

[pallid garden]

can your followers see your posts?

[cold sapphire]

the followers are just
all_users=[
{"id":1,"name":idk so they all are just data

to 100 users in all_users

[pallid garden]

well, try to make a system where you can logout of your current account and log into another account and see the posts from your first account

[cold sapphire]

ok i will be working into it in like 5 min thanks for your time

[reef lily]

add breakpoints

[steel whale]

i dont think ive ever used breakpoints

[cobalt flax]

To be clear i'm already using pycharm but im considering switching to another IDE if im gonna be learning more than just python.

pycharm literally only does python im pretty sure

[reef lily]

same!

[reef lily]

use vscode

[fathom vortex]

what's the usecase here, that's just unnecessary

[reef lily]

isn't that what pros do

[fathom vortex]

no, that's a dumb thing to do unless you're debugging

[fossil steeple]

can i make a custom dict that lets me do dict[index]

[slender urchin]

You an make any class work with [index]

[fossil steeple]

welp imma try it then

[slender urchin]

using the __getitem__

[oblique spindle]

__getitem__

[fossil steeple]

that's what he said

[fathom vortex]

class MyClass:
    def __init__(self):
        self.a = 1
        self.b = 2
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        if key == "a":
            return self.a
        elif key == "b":
            return self.b

now obj = MyClass(), obj['a'] and obj['b']

[oblique spindle]

He said using index not keys

[fossil steeple]

that's close but not exactly

[fathom vortex]

i mean, the syntax doesn't change tho?

index?

[fossil steeple]

do i need an init

[fathom vortex]

you mean to have both the dictionary and the ability to run integer indexes on the keys?

[fossil steeple]

i believe so

[fathom vortex]

i suppose you would have to create a separate list to maintain order for indexing

but insertion and deletion would be expensive op, so prolly a b-tree for larger data

wait

b tree won't work, it'd be a rope

[oblique spindle]

What's the use case of this?

[fossil steeple]

idk

[fathom vortex]

so a dictionary + rope data structure

ugh, not evn rope

[fossil steeple]

huh

[fathom vortex]

but something similar to that, where each parent node knows the total lengh of the child nodes

[fossil steeple]

    def __getitem__(self, index: int):
        return self.keys[index]
    
obj = Custom_dict({12: 2})
print(obj[0])```

[edgy kraken]

Hey @fossil steeple!

Please edit your message to use a code block

Add a py after the three backticks.

```py
print('Hello, world!')
```

This will result in the following:

print('Hello, world!')```

[fathom vortex]

i am just blabbering to myself atp, ignore

[slender urchin]

can you give an example of what you want?

[fathom vortex]

built in dictionary does maintain order since v3.7 iirc

[visual juniper]

doesnt it ?
afaik dicts are now ordered according to the insertion order

[oblique spindle]

I didn't knew that's crazy.

😭

[fossil steeple]

YEAH IT WORKS

[slender urchin]

def __getitem__(self, index):
  if isinstance(index, int):
    return self[list(self.keys())[index]]
  return self[index]```

[fathom vortex]

wouldn't calling list() be expensive?

[fossil steeple]

tuple then

[fathom vortex]

no i mean, calling list(self.keys()) would be expensive

[fossil steeple]

i'm gonna ignore that cos i don't wanna put in smth i don't understand

[oblique spindle]

Hmm yeah

[slender urchin]

.keys() gives a view which you can't directly index

[fossil steeple]

    def __getitem__(self, index: int):
        return tuple(self.keys())[index]
    
obj = Custom_dict({12: 2})
print(obj[0])

[fathom vortex]

that's true but that's exactly why I didn't suggest that as a possible soln

[fossil steeple]

i wonder what else i can do

[fathom vortex]

list() on a hot path function like getting items by integer indexes is really expensive, unless the use case is not meant for larger dictionaries or if the use case is very rare

[fossil steeple]

k

[fathom vortex]

even tuple() for that matter

[oblique spindle]

What exactly is the use of this though?

._.

[fathom vortex]

mm, i wonder too

[oblique spindle]

Why would I ever need to get a dict value by index?

[fathom vortex]

i've not ever had to use such a thing in the decade i've programmed

[fossil steeple]

lads what are context managers

[fossil steeple]

idk i just kept wanting to do it so i said sure i'll make it

[fathom vortex]

with open("file") as fp:
    fp.write("HELLO")

you see the with block? the file object implements a context manager

similarly, there are other functions that can do this neat trick

not sure what they're exactly

[fossil steeple]

huh

[half pewter]

I tried to number my dictionaries before I learned about hashmaps and enumerate, it's just a conceptual misunderstanding

[fossil steeple]

enumarates are enums yeah?
which are just those constants

[oblique spindle]

Basically Context managers help in cleaning up actions.

[fathom vortex]

enumerate numbers an iterable, providing you a counter of sorts

[slender urchin]

The enumerate function and the Enum type are not related

[fathom vortex]

for i, x in enumerate(['a', 'b', 'c']):
    print(i, x)

0 a
1 b
2 c

[fossil steeple]

ah okay

[oblique spindle]

Like If you open a file normally i don't remember the syntax ahh
f.open()
f.write("Hello")
f.close()
If write throws an exception, the file will never be closed and cleanup won't happen correctly , context mangers ensure that the file will be closed.
.
Same with SMTP requests, database connections etc.

[cosmic scaffold]

With python can I automate working with excel like same excel but different details ?

[slender urchin]

yes

[cosmic scaffold]

But then I have to input all the details which is not pretty automated

I wanted to automate it it's pretty boring stuff doing same thing everyday atleast 3 or 4 time

[pallid garden]

try vba

it might be better suited, depending on your use case

[harsh anchor]

what specifically are you trying to automate

[half night]

def print_pattern2_diff():
    n=int(input("Enter a number: "))
    for i in range(1,n+1):
        for j in range(1,n-i+1):
            print(" ", end="")
        for k in range(1,2*i):
            print("*", end="")
        print()

can anyone explain me the logic of this code. I just don't understand

[pallid gorge]

Anyone got experience with papertrail logging and than with https?

[pallid garden]

do you know how for loops work?

[half night]

yes I do, but I don't settle with the output

    *
   ***
  *****
 *******
*********```

how can this be output????

[fathom vortex]

!d str.center

[edgy kraken]

str.center

str.center(width, fillchar=' ', /)```
Return centered in a string of length *width*. Padding is done using the specified *fillchar* (default is an ASCII space). The original string is returned if *width* is less than or equal to `len(s)`. For example...

[pallid garden]

find a piece of paper. write down what i will be if you use an input like 5

[half night]

let me try

[oblique spindle]

I mean string multiplication would be better for this but anyways ._.

[pallid garden]

how many times will the i loop run? what is the first i, what is the last i

[bronze dragon]

count the number of spaces and asterisks on each line, with the line number
notice the mathematical pattern

[half night]

this is way quicker method I found, which makes sense to me

def print_pattern2():
    n=int(input("Enter a number:"))
    for i in range(1,n+1):
        print(" "*(n-i)+"*"*(2*i-1))```

[cosmic scaffold]

Basically I work in bike showroom so as per bike sold I have to make excel of it with many details ofcourse like name address chasis model blah blah and it's pretty boring like atleast I have made those 3000 time or more and in season I do this thing morning to night so I was thinking if python could help in this but I'm not experienced in python to judge that if it could

[bronze dragon]

so what you don't understand is the end= part?

[half night]

it means that how will the statement ends, by default it is /n

[unreal vigil]

what do you mean?

[oblique spindle]

Yeah exactly that's what I was saying.

[bronze dragon]

so what about the first one doesn't make sense?

[oblique spindle]

I mean doing dict[1] to get the value at the first value.

[unreal vigil]

isn't that like, what a dict is for?

[half night]

let me try on page(paper)

[unreal vigil]

I didn't come up with anything better so my game map is saved in a dict as x y coordinate tuples

[half night]

I got it, thanks @pallid garden

I was not completing the initial nested loop in my mind ( am so dumb 😭 )

[pallid garden]

i did nothing lol

[half night]

you did said do it on paper

and I did!

[pallid garden]

you kinda solved the problem yourself

thank yourself more

[half night]

thanks me

:p

[bronze dragon]

pov: you're a rubber ducky

[pallid garden]

haha yes

[mossy sigil]

How do goy code in py vs non-goy?

[pastel sluice]

<@&831776746206265384>

[inland karma]

you have to use friendly language while you are here and stop whatever this is.

[half night]

def print_pattern2():
    l1=[]
    l2=[]
    n=int(input("Enter a number:"))
    for i in range(1,n+1):
        l1.append(" "*(n-i)+"*"*(2*i-1))
    l2=l1[::-1]
    for item in l2:
        print(item)

Dude I am a genius. I think

[cosmic scaffold]

Can please anyone answer me in yes and no?

[inland karma]

this is a very common usecase for python

[fathom vortex]

what is this obfuscatory looking piece of code doing?

[cosmic scaffold]

Yeah ok but do I have to input all the details or is there anyway?

[half night]

Enter a number:6
***********
 *********
  *******
   *****
    ***
     *

[inland karma]

you have to input something yeah, but there are ways to get things done more efficiently

[fathom vortex]

ah cool

[gray siren]

@inland karma your profile picture is Scary

[inland karma]

i dont mean to be scary

[cosmic scaffold]

Hmm thanks

[inland karma]

python is very good at automating boring stuff

[inland karma]

there is also a very good beginner book to get you started. do you want me to share it?

[cosmic scaffold]

That's why I choose it

[inland karma]

!res

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[inland karma]

automate the boring stuff with python

[cosmic scaffold]

Ofcourse

[fathom vortex]

atp it wouldn't be a very bad idea to have a command for the book and cs50p

[azure crane]

my code is compiling for like 5mins lol

[cosmic scaffold]

Oh yeah I have it already but I want to learn python as fully not just for automating

[inland karma]

great to hear!

[craggy willow]

def stars(n: int) -> None:
    for i in range(n):
        nstars = 2 * i + 1
        print(("*" * nstars).center(2 * n - 1))

[gray siren]

A simple way to learn python is watch some basic python, and start practicing more you practice more you learn!!

[half night]

I don't understand this one

[craggy willow]

really? which part

[fathom vortex]

the center function puts space around the string to place it at the center.

[cold bronze]

Is it worth it adding detailed comments even though it adds a bunch of lines to the code?

like it costs nothing right

[silver plover]

Lines of code does not matter, correct.

[inland karma]

'*****'.center(9) what does this do?

[cold bronze]

awesome :) thank you

[inland karma]

wong ping

[inland karma]

'*****'.center(9) what does this do

[half night]

I am still new

[steep roost]

Hii one quick ques!!

[inland karma]

try to run it

[steep roost]

This one
How can i create something like this

[silk sable]

Having a program crash because you forgot the parentheses for sys.exit() is kinda ironic.
And it's a mistake I've made more than once for various functions.

[craggy willow]

shouldn't crash though, should just do nothing

sys.exit would just be sittin' there

[inland karma]

create this diagram with python?

[steep roost]

how? slides like this!!

[oblique spindle]

Are .GitHub.io links trustable?

[steep roost]

check this

same md file and how it's turn into slides!!

slides is cool!! i want to built my prsentations etc like this!!

[inland karma]

thats just a github page

[craggy willow]

!pypi graphviz

[edgy kraken]

graphviz v0.21

Simple Python interface for Graphviz

Released on <t:1749980105:D>.

[hallow umbra]

I am proud to announce that I became an applicant for entering into master's science degree at Kyiv Polytechnic Institute in Computer Engineering for 2026 (Faculty of Software Systems and Applied Mathematics).

[steep roost]

i am talking about this one!! the slides!!

[fathom vortex]

it can still execute arbitrary js

[slow rivet]

As trustable as any random webpage is

[inland karma]

its javascript

[pastel sluice]

congratulations, I hope you are able to stay safe over there

[inland karma]

but this is using something called mermaid @steep roost

[steep roost]

ok cool!! understand!!

Thanks!! evil!!

[inland karma]

the js framework is called reveal, and the graphs are made with mermaid

[silver plover]

If you're just looking to create similar graphs manually, https://graphviz.org/ is also an option

[steep roost]

ok okay thanks!! u guys r helpful and cool!!

[craggy willow]

is there some python bindings to tikz

cause that'd be another option

[thick crown]

Yo

[steady rain]

!ban 1072804156257095691 "1 year" You've been given many chances to reflect on your behavior here and learn how to behave properly, and you're still being problematic. Take some time to mature before you get another chance to engage with this server.

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @reef lily until <t:1800113959:f> (1 year).

[inland karma]

!pypi tikzpy

[edgy kraken]

tikzpy v0.0.4

TikZpy simplifies the art of drawing by code tikz figures

Released on <t:1732477183:D>.

[thick crown]

PyLaTeX + Manual TikZ

[thick crown]

Noooo

MY friend hoodie is gone 😭

[half pewter]

heh hoodie has multiple accounts... he'll be around

[steady rain]

you can DM them.

[inland karma]

!pypi tikz-python

[edgy kraken]

tikz-python v0.0.6

A python wrapper for tikz

Released on <t:1744845272:D>.

[thick crown]

I don't want to

[solemn tartan]

that kinda stuff is not something u wanna send on a public server </3

[thick crown]

Lol

[half pewter]

If anything you should be happy that he had SOOO many chances to correct his behavior, the server tries to be welcoming.

[thick crown]

Why you gave only 2 repo

[steady rain]

@inland karma what were you saying about tikz?

[inland karma]

i linked the wrong repo

[solemn tartan]

hidden the rest

[inland karma]

but if you dont want to use JS you can use a python wrapper

as salt commented on

[craggy willow]

i asked if there were any bindings cause someone else asked about the diagrams

[inland karma]

though, i dont think there are python bindings outside sphinx, for reveal

[thick crown]

Guys what are you makin these days

[cosmic scaffold]

Can anyone recommend me good python book that cover atleast most of the python?

[inland karma]

the one we talked about is a great place to start

there is also crash course and a byte of python

[cosmic scaffold]

Finding good python book was more harder then finding a good book for assembly

[half pewter]

...

[inland karma]

did you read our resource page?

[soft field]

heat as it is cold with our building under low power short so cannot write code until the apartment place fixes the problem. Issue is the Arctic temps are making things worse and all our blankets are not enough.
Not enough power to run:

• any appliances including the stove top/oven.
• any space heater
• computer/TV
• any refrigerator/deep freezer
  

[half pewter]

@steady rain How would you feel about pinning some day 1 starter projects if I formatted a list with instructions?

[steel whale]

I FUCKING HATE LOKI SPAMMERS

[inland karma]

please be kind when your talking here @steel whale

[steady rain]

!kindling

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[steady rain]

we already have this

[cosmic scaffold]

I know but I'm sure its pretty focus in just automating and not to teach python fully I also try crash course and have read pretty much of it but then I realised it skip lots of things it was pretty good book my favourite but

[half pewter]

I'm talking about literal day one projects, I don't recall seeing rock paper scissors or high/low there but I'll double check

[cosmic scaffold]

Not yet

[inland karma]

you will learn all the important things if you use automate the boring stuff with python just remembner to read all the words and write all the code yourself

[inland karma]

you should take a look, then you will not have a trouble finding good resources.

[velvet hull]

Hello.world

[half pewter]

ya even project 1 in the big book of small projects would be difficult for someone who's just starting. anywho just thought I'd offer

[velvet hull]

I feel a byte of python is better than automate cuz its not beginner friendly

[inland karma]

a byte of python is suited for those who know some programming

[cosmic scaffold]

Hmm if you can say that I will then, automation is the things I'm most interested in so great but there is also other problems like I have no pc just phone so it's not fun but I try my best with python what I have

[velvet hull]

Ohh that was my first book and it worked out for me but the other one feels not quite of my liking

[inland karma]

you said you used excel, that runs on a computer does it not? you ccould use that

[cosmic scaffold]

Yeah lol I meant I doesn't have pc in home like personal stuff I have pc in my work place but I doesn't do much of personal stuff in there

[half pewter]

could always go to a library

[inland karma]

oh i see... it is not easy to use a phone to write code, i know people try, but its not really something i would recommend

[steady rain]

if you're going to write code on your phone, at least use a bluetooth keyboard

it will still suck, though

[cosmic scaffold]

Yeah it just doesn't give the feeling of compiling in it ofcourse but I already have try to write assembly in browser which is hell so it's better then that

Atleast I have app for it

[toxic meteor]

hello :p

[inland karma]

you dont have to think about the compile step with python, the interpreter does that when you run the code

all you need is a python interpreter, and you can run it on a phone

or use an online editor

or use an app with it build in

but i would just not recommend it, even though you can

[half pewter]

colab might be easiest if you intend to work on something at home that you'll use in your workplace

there are tons of options but "google"

[cosmic scaffold]

Yeah I do that I doesn't have choice here I was thinking if I could use the pc in my workplace but that has its own story

[half pewter]

nice thing about my suggestion is you can access it from home, work or even a library! Consider it, none of us would be here if we were worried about nerd status.

[toxic meteor]

im new to python , can someone tell me how i can learn it?
used to be a Scratch user , but i wanna learn something new this year !

[hybrid nebula]

!res might help you

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[toxic meteor]

ok thanks !

[hybrid nebula]

also, btw: Python is basically just Scratch but you express it as text

[half pewter]

lol the top pinned message in this channel is just "be staff"

unemployment shaming is rude!

[toxic meteor]

is pydroid a good app for python coding ?
im on android.

[hybrid nebula]

Try Termux

https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/10/blockly-graduates-from-google.html
wow, awesome

I should finally make 'blockly but it's x86 assembly'

[raw chasm]

phone keyboards are ass for programming bc they hide all the symbols behind a lot of menus btw, prolly will be painful 😭

[toxic meteor]

im a fast typer .

dont worry

trust me.

[raw chasm]

🫡 u can use google colab or some online replit also tho if u have a computer u can go on a browser

u dont have to download anything

[toxic meteor]

im computerless.

[raw chasm]

mb ya android should work then

[toxic meteor]

at least its better than IOS 😭

[raw chasm]

I mean i lowkey still might recommend hitting up library if ur tryna do bigger project 😭

phone will work fine it will just be a lot easier to type and see lol

[toxic meteor]

this server is making me smort.

i have a big brian now.

[thick crown]

@idle nimbus

[idle nimbus]

Yo

[thick crown]

Wsp

[raw chasm]

🗿

[mossy sigil]

Yo

[toxic meteor]

termux still on 20% download 😭
my wifi is kinda speedless.
please internet, i need this.

[subtle coyote]

Yo

[idle nimbus]

Termux sucks

[subtle coyote]

stop using discord 💀

[idle nimbus]

And touch grass

[subtle coyote]

whats the alternative

[idle nimbus]

Get a pc

[raw chasm]

😭

[subtle coyote]

it ain't portable bro

[raw chasm]

bro obv doesnt have a pc 😂

[subtle coyote]

yeah otherwise they'd know

[idle nimbus]

Then use Termux

[cyan wolf]

What is LFX

[cyan wolf]

Anyone did that

[raw chasm]

ig its like microsoft azure type shit

https://docs.linuxfoundation.org/lfx

for managing projects

[mossy sigil]

Laptop better

[raw chasm]

LFX is a suite of tools built by the Linux Foundation to facilitate every aspect of open source development. The toolkit operationalizes the organization’s proven methodology for transforming projects into category leaders, providing direct support to projects, and empowering open source developers to write better, more secure code and grow sustainable ecosystems.

too many buzz words 🤮

[cyan wolf]

https://lfx.linuxfoundation.org/

Is it like gsoc

Btw anyone preparing or got chance for gsoc?

[raw chasm]

idk what that is but it looks like azure devops or like github actions type workflow manager

with other stuff

[cyan wolf]

No its kind of opensource promotion campaign

Where beginners get paid for open source

contributions

[warm girder]

lfx is an umbrella org for fostering/growing new projects/ open source initiatives

[raw chasm]

i mean idk abt all that but their page says LFX is a suite of tools for project development

[warm girder]

linux kernel, cncf, risc-v etc

[raw chasm]

🫡

[cyan wolf]

Oh intersting

[warm girder]

altho gsoc is a beginner friendly program u cant really contribute to big open source projects with little background or experience you do need some prerequisites

also its very competitive to get in

[raw chasm]

ya i never have heard of this 😂

[warm girder]

also hyperledger too

[raw chasm]

how do i get in rq

or r u signing up for free labor 😭

[cyan wolf]

yea i meant beginner in opensource
Not like programming
i tried last time and got ghosted

I think they expect contributions before gsoc starts

[warm girder]

there are stipends based on project size

[thick crown]

Yo

[raw chasm]

oh is it "apply to be a contributor"

ig not open until march

[raw chasm]

🔥

[warm girder]

u submit a proposal to a problem statement

[warm girder]

hello

[cyan wolf]

But it's very competitive as said...

[raw chasm]

ya but it says u work with organizations who submit ?

idk pull requests ig

[warm girder]

lmao the proposals have shot up since llms

[raw chasm]

bc theres like sign up for orgs and contributors right

[thick crown]

Wsp

[idle nimbus]

@thick crown come online 🙂

[raw chasm]

https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2025/organizations

u can see here if ur curious

last yr ppl who submitted stuff

[thick crown]

What

[idle nimbus]

Come dm

[charred python]

^ Joined today to tell people to touch grass, that termux sucks and to DM them.

[harsh anchor]

termux does suck

[jade robin]

nah it saved me plenty

[cosmic scaffold]

👀👀

[thick crown]

Termux sucks

[steady rain]

is that different from tmux? I love tmux.

[bronze dragon]

yeah

[thick crown]

Termux Is a app that runs terminal on mobile

You can use tmux too using muile

[steady rain]

side note: I wish it was easy to turn old android phones into raspberry pis

[thick crown]

Muxile*

[warped sigil]

anyone use / heard of jscpd

[half pewter]

that would be something, kinda makes you wonder why it's not a thing now that you say it

[steady rain]

vendor lock-down

[cold bronze]

Hello! does anyone know regex? :)

[cosmic scaffold]

Can termux even little bit replaced terminal? I just try downloading pandas in it and it doesn't works

[thick crown]

Tbh userland is better than termux

[bronze dragon]

it's better to ask your question directly.

[charred python]

my old phones are unlocked google ones and I can re-flash them. I never botherd to do it, though.

[cosmic scaffold]

Userland?

[charred python]

at least, i think i can. i remember doing it back in the day but I forget which device.

[fossil steeple]

Here i really can't seem to figure out decorators

[slender urchin]

How to use them or how to make them?

[cosmic scaffold]

Me too

[slender urchin]

Making one is pretty advanced material

[fossil steeple]

making them seems simple it's just:
def decor(func)
... def wrapper()
...blahblah
... func()
return wrapper

[bronze dragon]

ARM devices require custom descriptions of the onboard hardware for each device, and often rely on custom drivers that aren't in the mainline kernel

[slender urchin]

O wait, I was thinking context manager for some reason 😅

What is your question about decorators

[fossil steeple]

ok so why r we returning wrapper

[slender urchin]

The wrapper is the function that the original function will be replaced by

[cold bronze]

I'm using regex to find whether a name has a prefix

import re

#any word with the prefix DEF or ORG, case insensitive
pattern = r'(?i)(DEF|ORG)(.+)'
names = ["DEF_test","org_test"]

match = re.fullmatch(pattern, names)
if match:
  prefix = match.group(1)
  if prefix == "DEF"

so at the very end i get a bit confused, because I'm trying to check if the prefix is either "DEF" or "def", but if i write

if prefix == "DEF"

it only gives me the names with "DEF" capitalized, I'm not sure how to "capture" the first alternative within the group, or how to call it

[slender urchin]

@decorator
def example():
  print("test")

Is syntactic sugar for

def example():
  print("test")

example = decorator(example)```

[fossil steeple]

but then why do we need the wrapper function in the first place

[slender urchin]

To add functionality to the original function

[jagged belfry]

Typically with a decorator you replace the original function because you need to

There are some cases where you don't, at which point you don't actually need the wrapper

[fossil steeple]

yes but can we not just put the stuff in decorator instead of def a new function

[slender urchin]

If we do that it will run when we call the decorator, we don't want that

[real tendon]

hello ppl

[bronze dragon]

first, you can't call re.fullmatch on a list of strings.
setting that aside, maybe you want if prefix in ("DEF", "def")? alternatively, if prefix.lower() == "def", and so on

[jagged belfry]

The decorator is a function that only runs when the function is being defined, not later when the function that you @'d is being run

[fossil steeple]

wait does the @ make it run

[slender urchin]

Yes, see my comment here

Doing @decorator calls the decorator with the function as an argument

[obsidian hollow]

Hello friends

[fossil steeple]

ok so first the decorator is called when you @ it

[obsidian hollow]

I see that most python books avoid writing about the match keyword.This is so strange.

[fossil steeple]

even b4 starting program okay

wrapper is called when you call bob

[bronze dragon]

it's a pretty new feature

[jagged belfry]

It's called immediately after the def runs

!e ```py

def decorator(func):
print("Decorator called with", func)
def wrapper(*args):
print("Wrapper called with", args)
return func(*args)
return wrapper

@decorator
def example(name):
print("Hi my name is", name)

print(f"{example=}")

print("Starting program")
example("Bob")

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | Decorator called with <function example at 0x7ff13b05efb0>
002 | example=<function decorator.<locals>.wrapper at 0x7ff13b05f060>
003 | Starting program
004 | Wrapper called with ('Bob',)
005 | Hi my name is Bob

[real tendon]

hello ppl. cn sme1 help me in learning this language

i know js the basics

[fossil steeple]

ah okay

[jagged belfry]

The decorator syntax is fairly identical to doing this instead:

def decorator(func):
  print("Decorator called with", func)
  def wrapper(*args):
    print("Wrapper called with", args)
    return func(*args)
  return wrapper


def example(name):
  print("Hi my name is", name)
example = decorator(example)

print(f"{example=}")

print("Starting program")
example("Bob")

[real tendon]

was this for me?

[fossil steeple]

nope

[real tendon]

😭

[fossil steeple]

wait so then i don't see when wrapper is called

[real tendon]

so is there someone to help me?

[cold bronze]

or should I perhaps make every prefix into it's own pattern?

def_prefix = r'(?i)(DEF)'

if prefix == def_prefix

something along these lines

[fossil steeple]

OH WAIT IT'S CALLED WHEN YOU DO DECORATOR(EXAMPLE)

COS THAT RETURNS WRAPPER

[obsidian hollow]

@bronze dragon I know that match was introduced in 3.10 version and according to this infographic, this is the oldest version that someone should use:

https://devguide.python.org/versions/

[fossil steeple]

SO THEN WHEN YOU CALL EXAMPLE YOU'RE REALLY JUST CALLING WRAPPER

[cerulean ravine]

how many books did you look at?

[fossil steeple]

prbly

!res

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine Many

[real tendon]

but not u right?

[fossil steeple]

ask away

[real tendon]

ig u wont help me @fossil steeple

[fossil steeple]

um...

[real tendon]

i js wanted sme courses to learn this language

[fossil steeple]

and i provided u with res

[slender urchin]

Yes you got it 😄

[obsidian hollow]

Suggest me a book that includes match usage please!

[fossil steeple]

fluent python

[obsidian hollow]

👍

[cerulean ravine]

it doesn't seem to.

[cerulean ravine]

you might need to work with other materials. Have you read !pep 636 ?

[fossil steeple]

fluent python used match case

[cerulean ravine]

which edition do you have?

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine What do you mean?

[cold bronze]

nevermind, the last one worked!! Thank you :)

[cerulean ravine]

!pep 636

[edgy kraken]

**PEP 636 - Structural Pattern Matching: Tutorial**

Status

Final

Python Version

3.10

Created

12-Sep-2020

Type

Informational

[cerulean ravine]

i looked in the 2nd edition and didn't see it. maybe i missed it.

[fossil steeple]

my legal team has advised me not to answer this question

[cerulean ravine]

it might be that i don't have the latest.

@obsidian hollow did you check Fluent Python?

[slender urchin]

It see some pattern matching on page 192

but that's just about classes

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine Yes I am now between Learning Python: Powerful Object-Oriented Programming (6th ed) and Fluent

[cerulean ravine]

Fluent Python has it.

[fossil steeple]

Here lads is logging worth learning at about an intermediate level?
It's the next chapter in the video and it sounds boring

[harsh anchor]

yes

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine So between the two books you are suggesting the second one?

[cerulean ravine]

Fluent Python is very good, but it's also big. I don't know where you are in your learning, or what you need to learn about match/case.

[fossil steeple]

grand

[silver plover]

You can skip boring stuff. You'll eventually learn what you need. Logging is a useful practice tho.

[cerulean ravine]

also, there are two parts to logging: writing log messages, which is very simple, and you will pick up in no time; and configuring logging, which no one understands.

[silver plover]

Is there a laugh+cry+^ emoji?

[slender urchin]

😂

[jolly night]

Hello, can some1 share thoughts on websites such as codewars and similar? are they worth for learning? If so which one is the best in yours opinion?

[harsh anchor]

and then the fancy people want to aggregate and store and query and ... 😩

[bright mauve]

"distressed fumino" is a good template for this

[toxic meteor]

I.... Am steve...

[flat moon]

Can someone teach me in #1461777837030899884

[golden mortar]

Logging isn't about whether it's fun or boring, it's about how figuring out the cause of bugs can either be pretty quick and easy or a huge pain in the ass if you didn't add any logging.

[lucid niche]

💀

[fossil steeple]

do i need to understand

[golden mortar]

It's useful knowledge.

[half pewter]

mentoring isn't a commitment most people will make, and even fewer for free. Your best bet is to start learning then ask specific questions, we also havehttps://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/343944376055103488

[fossil steeple]

configuring i mean he said no one understands

[harsh anchor]

applications need pretty minimal setup to get pretty good gains, logging.basicConfig is nice

[toxic meteor]

print("CHICKEN JOCKEY")

[robust ledge]

I have to think it's partly in jest. There are plenty who understand how to configure logging. It's not as common, by far, as people who understand how to write a log line.

[fossil steeple]

I'm taking your python rights

[golden mortar]

You don't need to do a deep dive on that, no. You can just run with the default configuration and learn what you need as you need it.

[toxic meteor]

does being in a python server mean saying C++ or Java is a crime?

[harsh anchor]

🤨

[golden mortar]

Logging configuration can get pretty hairy for large and complex systems.

[fossil steeple]

the questions are crazy

[toxic meteor]

was python made by a guy who was bitten by a python?

[fossil steeple]

yes

[slender urchin]

You can talk about other languages in the off topic channels

[robust ledge]

Absolutely. The larger, the more dense the configuration becomes. It's all the same pieces though. Handlers and their three rules: What do I log? Where do I log it? What does the log line look like?

[silver plover]

tbh, as a beginner, I don't think you need to learn "logging" explicitly. Just use print statements to emit useful messages, and worry about how to make it better later.

[toxic meteor]

my brain can barely understand python...

[slender urchin]

We all start somewhere

[fossil steeple]

🤓 um actually i'm not a beginner i'm actuall 3hrs and 40 minutes throught a yt video titled "Intermediate python course" for your information 🤓

[toxic meteor]

:p

[fossil steeple]

contrary to popular belief, you are not born knowing how to code

[toxic meteor]

honestly the only reason i wanna learn python is to make minecraft python edition 🥹✌️

[half pewter]

pfft, you'd be a master by now if you'd watched it at 2x

[slender urchin]

I believe there is a tutorial for that using the Panda3D engine.
You should first gain some beginner knowledge though

[toxic meteor]

im on mobile...

[velvet hull]

Hello world

[flat moon]

Can someone teach me in #1461777837030899884

[slender urchin]

That's gonna be tough then :/

[half pewter]

kinda makes you appreciate the days when computers were still big

[toxic meteor]

its been an hour and termux is still at 90% download....

[dry pike]

Yeah they really fell out of fashion now /j

[half pewter]

we just need a programming language that's written purely by swiping left or right

tindary

[harsh anchor]

it just iterates through all language features until it gets to the one you want

[half pewter]

🤣

[dry pike]

Singly-linked list implementation so you can't go backwards

Better not miss it!

[harsh anchor]

hm? you could just not allow iterating backwards. linked lists suck

[slender urchin]

reminds me of this language that's based around linked lists

[dry pike]

The point was disallow it naturally instead of explicitly

[slender urchin]

I could make some really slow algorithms by continually indexing the list

[harsh anchor]

it doesn't even make sense though. you're talking about user interface and implementation at the same time. if there's no "go back button", how would the user go back? implementation isn't relevant here

[dry pike]

ok I'll just go fuck myself

[steady rain]

um, are we okay?

[harsh anchor]

[mossy sigil]

how was your day stel

[steady rain]

it's still going, and it's great, but I want to make sure NoWayJay is alright.

[sullen dust]

what projects do employeers like looking for because i doubt theyll give a shit about a chess engine

[cerulean ravine]

they don't care about any of your projects as projects. They care about any of them as showing that you can build things and then talk about them later. A chess engine is great.

[robust ledge]

If you can talk about the challenges you faced and how those learning experiences apply to your abilities, it's a good project. How did overcoming the unexpected in a side-project prepare you to do the same for said employer?

[sullen dust]

So maybe a project that I can add features to but also show I know what Im on abt and how I could change stuff?

[harsh anchor]

if you're doing a project, you already know these things. you just need to be prepared to talk about it

[chilly whale]

And in fact there's a reasonable chance that one of your interviewers is a chess nerd and wants to talk about what goes into building a chess engine, heh

I know someone who landed an internship in part because he listed skydiving in the hobbies section of his resume, and the interviewer wanted to bring him in at least in part to ask some questions about skydiving, haha

[robust ledge]

To this: D&D helped me land my internship. I got asked what databases I've worked with and I brought up a character database we keep for D&D. Three of the team members at the table immediately leaned forward and we talked about our favorite character classes for 10 minutes. The team lead was just sitting back going "okay, they can work with my team... that's sorted".

[tame crest]

guys what color is urbuggati?

[sullen dust]

Do you ever get to know who your interviewer is before the interview?

[rancid fractal]

Me when I hack together a quick C program:

[robust ledge]

Maybe a name, usually just a title. If you ask.

[bright mauve]

invoking vacuous truth, my bugatti is red

[rancid fractal]

Eh wrong quote, I meant that about inefficient algorithms

[sullen dust]

because ik someone who found who their interviewer was found their social media and just acted like they had the same hobbies as what the interviewer had posted

[robust ledge]

Social engineering. Good skill.

[sullen dust]

I should probably do the same

[velvet hull]

Woah

[robust ledge]

At the very least, read the sports headlines for the morning and have that small talk on your mind. Sports is another one of those high chances that someone at the table is interested.

[obsidian hollow]

I searched udemy too, for courses that teach match (v3.10 and above) and decided to buy the Complete 2026 Python Bootcamp: Learn Python from Scratch (Haris Ali Khan)

[velvet hull]

It's better to not put topics on table which u aren't familiar with a lie spotted is worse

[obsidian hollow]

by the way 80% of the udemy courses do not even mention match

[robust ledge]

However, that type of conversation requires the comfort and skill of controlling the conversation. Unless you have a deep knowledge, if you don't control the conversation you'll be caught out of water quickly.

[sullen dust]

i wouldnt be surprised footballs very popular in the uk

[cerulean ravine]

if you don't mind me asking, why are you focused on match/case?

[sullen dust]

I mean if i can find something they like they'll just end up talking loads because everyone likes yapping abt a specific topic they like

[robust ledge]

Retail taught me this. I can talk for quite a while on a topic I know nothing about.

[velvet hull]

U seem offtopic

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine Because I am a software developer with more than 15 years of experience with different programming languages and I consider match very helpful for the experienced software developer.

[cerulean ravine]

where have you used it before? Have you read about the basics of match/case?

[soft coral]

Never used match at work tbh 😛

[robust ledge]

Thanks for letting me know.

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine I use it all the time

[cerulean ravine]

cool, in what language?

[velvet hull]

Isn't match on docs too would be a rip off to learn it on a paid course

[half pewter]

I have gotten some value out of my Udemy sub but for every great course I find there are 2-3 that are mid or even just plain bad

[mossy sigil]

Hi

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine Java, C#, Javascript, Typescript

[robust ledge]

I think I've used match once since it was added in Python. Not often I need pattern matching over an if-statement.

[cerulean ravine]

those all have switch/case. match/case is different. You should take a look at pep 636

[tight rampart]

hiiii what vs should i use? (im a beginner)

[proud escarp]

vscode if you want to use python

[robust ledge]

what is "vs"?

[rancid fractal]

VS as in Visual Studio or?

[unborn lagoon]

vs being visual studio I assume? or "version"?

[harsh anchor]

Java and c# have real pattern matching these days. idk about typescript

[cerulean ravine]

interesting, can you give me a link?

[obsidian hollow]

I disagree at least from my experience so far with python's own implementation

[silver plover]

@cerulean ravine Is this (still) a doc bug, or is it intentional since powersort is a derivative of it? "The Timsort algorithm used in Python does multiple sorts efficiently because it can take advantage of any ordering already present in a dataset." https://docs.python.org/3/howto/sorting.html. I think this came up before in this channel, but someone asked recently about it again.

[cerulean ravine]

it's interesting to be looking for a resource to learn about match/case and also have strong opinions about how it works.

[harsh anchor]

on my phone.. try searching "java switch expression records". I think c# is just called pattern matching

[cerulean ravine]

i don't know much about the subtleties of sort algorithms. The /howto/ pages often lag.

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine I have watched another udemy course on it and I have already used it

[stray field]

java calls it enhanced switch expression

like enhanced for loops

[cerulean ravine]

great, maybe you don't need a book

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine Also "so far" is not a strong opinion

[harsh anchor]

they really like this "enhanced" word

[silver plover]

This is neat, I haven't had a chance to use it... relevant jep: https://openjdk.org/jeps/406

[stray field]

It's basically rust's match

[edgy kraken]

**PEP 363 - Syntax For Dynamic Attribute Access**

Status

Rejected

Created

29-Jan-2007

Type

Standards Track

[sullen dust]

damn

[stray field]

with sealed classes, you can even determine pattern exhaustion at compile time

[coarse salmon]

cant you do that with normal type unions as well

[dusky crag]

This actually works, tysm!

[stray field]

Java doesn't have type unions

[coarse salmon]

oh you were talking abt java lol

[cerulean ravine]

the examples look like they are checking the type of the value. Are there deeper patterns at work also?

[cerulean ravine]

!pep 636 I really recommend a quick read through this.

[edgy kraken]

**PEP 636 - Structural Pattern Matching: Tutorial**

Status

Final

Python Version

3.10

Created

12-Sep-2020

Type

Informational

[stray field]

I think you can also destructure records

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine As chat gpt says this is an added feature that I have not learned so far, so I stay at the common with switch feature of value matching for the time being

[cerulean ravine]

i didn't see an example of that in the jep. Maybe I'm just not good at reading Java.

[cerulean ravine]

ok, take my word for it: there is much more to it than that.

[silver plover]

"We expect that, in the future, general classes will be able to declare deconstruction patterns to specify how they can be matched against. Such deconstruction patterns can be used with a pattern switch to yield very succinct code."

[stray field]

double checking

[silver plover]

Looks like destructuring is a future, at lesat from that JEP

[harsh anchor]

it's in a different jep, 405

[stray field]

Ah, it's under future work

case IntExpr(int i) -> i;

[coarse salmon]

i think python probably has the best native pattern matching support out of all the imperative languages

which is an impressive feat

[obsidian hollow]

Yeah I see the other 5 extra things in the chat gpt comparison table

[stray field]

How come when I press End inside a code block in discord, it goes to the end of the current word instead of the line?

[half pewter]

what does ctrl end do?

[stray field]

Same thing

[tight rampart]

Can anyone recommend a good YouTuber who teaches Python?

[obsidian hollow]

@cerulean ravine By the way I must state at this point that python is the most friendly language for the programmer that I have ever seen.Everything I learn feels so natural.

[silver plover]

I think it's somewhat confusing when switching to Python because: we're (developers from other langs) are used to "case/switch" being used as an alternative for if/elif/else chains, and not very familiar or used to the idea of "structural pattern matching". I've very rarely used a python match, I think just because it's so different / not in my mental patterns.

[half pewter]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[stray field]

I already have a key to go to the (next) end of the current word. It's Alt+Right

[harsh anchor]

but other languages have pattern matching 🤨

[stray field]

Now if only we had if let X(y) = z:

[fossil steeple]

lads whywhen using decorators we define a func that returns wrapper? would we not just make the func wrapper instead

[coarse salmon]

yeah i agree that if you dont model things mentally the way match wants you to, youre not going to find much use with it. I personally use it everywhere since I code in functional languages as well

[tight rampart]

Can anyone recommend a good YouTuber who teaches Python? plss

[silver plover]

I guess maybe java 19, but that's brand new 🙂 and, not yet in C++ right?

[cerulean ravine]

it can also be a little confusing that this is a syntax error:

RED, BLUE = 1, 2
match color:
    case RED: print("Red!")
    case BLUE: print("Blue!")

[harsh anchor]

of course, those are the only other languages

[coarse salmon]

oh yeah ive run into that before lol

[stray field]

When I want to destructure an object, I do not want to do this. ```py
match x:
case Y(z): pass
case _: raise TypeError()

print(z)

[half pewter]

I'd like to organize my code better and use match/case but that's like 14th item on my priority list

[silver plover]

For sure, +sql ofc.

[coarse salmon]

it's a bit annoying that constants cant be used in place of literals idk

[slender urchin]

php match statements are weird, idk why they are even called match
They are basically an if/elif chain that throws an error if there is no match

[charred python]

C# and rust have pattern matching as well.

[coarse salmon]

it's a pretty big paradigm shift

[stray field]

Isn't that what python's match is, but without the error?

[dusty stone]

Scala has some lovely match statements (https://docs.scala-lang.org/tour/pattern-matching.html)

[stray field]

or do you have to repeat the condition for each case?

[cerulean ravine]

match/case doesn't use equality checking on the cases.

[golden mortar]

Java 19 was released in 2022...

[shrewd pine]

and at the same time

class C: RED, BLUE = 1, 2
match color:
    case C.RED: print("Red!")
    case C.BLUE: print("Blue!")

[stray field]

match is made for enums

[golden mortar]

Pattern matching in Java was included as a preview feature in Java 17 apparently

[obsidian hollow]

By the way nested elif is not as ugly as in other programming languages because of the lack of the curly braces and the mandatory nature of the identation.Just my 2 cents

[slender urchin]

it's like

match(value) {
  condition => result,
  condition2 => result2,
}```
Where it evaluates the condition expression and if it's true returns the result expression

[cerulean ravine]

and deep datastructure patterns.

[slender urchin]

One thing people do is
match(true)
and then just do a bunch of conditional expressions

[harsh anchor]

that is odd

[shrewd pine]

🥴

[slender urchin]

I once had to debug code that relied on side effects in the condition expressions 😔

[stray field]

Do traditional switch blocks even support non-static cases?

[shrewd pine]

in C?

[stray field]

Sure.

[coarse salmon]

or tagged unions

[shrewd pine]

values must even be convertible to integers in C

[stray field]

IIRC Not TypeAliases. (type X = int | str cannot be used in match/case, but X: TypeAlias = int | str can.)

Let me test this actually.

[coarse salmon]

nah they work fine, i use them all the time

[mossy sigil]

What's up?

[stray field]

Ah, you just can't call type aliases like type MyStr = str; MyStr()

[shrewd pine]

and yes the labels also need to be integer constants

[slender urchin]

while looking into this i found a new horror
someone is suggesting to use an iife to get around the single return expression

[stray field]

(gotta do MyStr.__value__())

[coarse salmon]

type NodeMsg = Advertisement | Stable | NetworkConverged


def serialize_node_msg(msg: NodeMsg) -> bytes:
  s = stream.new()

  match msg:
    case Advertisement(id, sequence_number, links):
      stream.write_uint32(s, 0)
      stream.write_uint32(s, id)
      stream.write_uint32(s, sequence_number)

      stream.write_uint32(s, len(links))
      for neighbor in links:
        stream.write_uint32(s, neighbor.id)
        stream.write_uint32(s, neighbor.distance)
    case Stable():
      stream.write_uint32(s, 1)
    case NetworkConverged():
      stream.write_uint32(s, 2)

  return stream.to_bytes(s)

[silver plover]

You'd be surprised by how much Java 8 is in the wild.

[steady rain]

I wouldn't, because Java is instant legacy code.

[silver plover]

Did Python ever consider an LTS cycle? Not sure I ever saw any discussion of it.

[stray field]

It's still the default download on java.com

[golden mortar]

Well, given that there's a lot of COBOL still around, not that surprised I suppose

[steady rain]

so they haven't updated that, or the number of devices that run java

[stray field]

Java Version 8 Update 471
Release date: October 21, 2025
Filesize: 38.48 MB

It's still supported

[warped sigil]

anyone run a code duplication checker tool

[dull dune]

that's basically Javas main appeal, very long support Windows and backwards compat

so if you're an enterprise, you can be fairly sure your code will still run with minimal faff for a decade

which is also great if you're maintaining a legacy system

[silver plover]

ah, found a discussion: https://discuss.python.org/t/python-lts-and-maintenance-cycles/68277

[dull dune]

you can often upgrade the jvm to get improvements without having to touch code, and it's not a pita to get your dev environment up

[cerulean ravine]

are you looking for the support cycle, or the reason for the support cycle?

[silver plover]

I was primarily curious a. if it was discussed, and b. the arguments against. Definitely understand it is a decision, just curious the history of it.

[bright mauve]

what do y'all use to listen to keyboard presses? is pynput well-established, or are other modules preferred? i just need something simple that can raise an exception when a key is pressed while other stuff is happening

[fossil steeple]

ok so i get decorators but how tf does this work:

def repeat(numtime):
  def decor_repeat(func):
    def wrapper(*args):
      for _ in range(numtime):
        res = func(*args)
      return res
    return wrapper
  return decor_repeat```

[slender urchin]

Sony WX1000-XM4's

[silver plover]

Oh nice, never saw this before: https://hugovk.github.io/pypi-tools/charts.html#requests

[fossil steeple]

as in how does it work now that there's two cos wouldn't it then turns the funciton into decor repeat

[silver plover]

I prefer non-clicky keyboards myself... cherry reds.

[bright mauve]

https://klipy.com/gifs/cat-crazy-cat-8

[slender urchin]

This is a decorator that returns another decorator

[fossil steeple]

yes, but then wouldn't the function then be said other decorator and not wrapper

and also how come we start by having numtimes as an arg and then it magically beocmes func

[bright mauve]

(for real though, thoughts on pynput vs keyboard vs other similar modules?)

[slender urchin]

You can call this decorator to return a new decorater
So repeat(3) will return a decorator that will repeat something 3 times
You can use it like
@repeat(3)

[uneven laurel]

Hello can anyone give me voice access please.

[slender urchin]

Check out #voice-verification

[fossil steeple]

wait so am i wrong to say that really its:
@main_decor
def decor_ repeat

[slender urchin]

So

@repeat(3)
def func(): ...

is doing

func = repeat(3)(func)```

[uneven laurel]

You are not currently eligible to use voice inside Python Discord for the following reasons:

• You have not been active enough on the server yet.

[fossil steeple]

wait why do we have tow brackets

[slender urchin]

We don't let people bypass the system

[slender urchin]

repeat(3) returns the decor_repeat, then the second () is called on the decor_repeat and returns the wrapper

[fossil steeple]

oh

is it calling decor repeat with numtime

as in is it decorrepeat(func, numtime)

[slender urchin]

it calls it with the func
it remembers what the numtime is because of something called a closure
a function inside another function will remember the variables from the outside function

[fossil steeple]

ah okay

all that's left now is multiple decorators on one func but i'll do that tomorows

thanks

[uneven laurel]

What is difference between range function and enumerate funtion ?

[stray field]

Is this homework?

[uneven laurel]

I have doubt . When to use

[dry yacht]

range returns integers in a given range with a given step size
enumerate iterates over an iterable and returns a tuple of index (can be offset) and element for each element

[jagged belfry]

range() should be used when you need a sequence of numbers

enumerate() should be used when you need to count something

[stray field]

Usage: ```py
for i in range(0, 20, 2):
print(i) # prints 0-20 evens

for i, n in enumerate(range(0, 20, 2)):
print(i, n) # prints 0-20 evens, plus index starting at 0

(excluding 20)

[jagged belfry]

enumerate is cleaner, leads to less mistakes, and doesnt' require you to know how many items are there beforehand

[uneven laurel]

Understand thanks

[stray field]

!d range

[edgy kraken]

range

class range(stop, /)``````py

class range(start, stop, step=1, /)```
The arguments to the range constructor must be integers (either built-in [`int`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#int) or any object that implements the [`__index__()`](https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html#object.__index__) special method). If the *step* argument is omitted, it defaults to `1`. If the *start* argument is omitted, it defaults to `0`. If *step* is zero, [`ValueError`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/exceptions.html#ValueError) is raised.

For a positive *step*, the contents of a range `r` are determined by the formula `r[i] = start + step*i` where `i >= 0` and `r[i] < stop`.

For a negative *step*, the contents of the range are still determined by the formula `r[i] = start + step*i`, but the constraints are `i >= 0` and `r[i] > stop`.

Similar names: django.range

[uneven laurel]

Ok

[stray field]

!d enumerate

[edgy kraken]

enumerate

enumerate(iterable, start=0)```
Return an enumerate object. *iterable* must be a sequence, an [iterator](https://docs.python.org/3/glossary.html#term-iterator), or some other object which supports iteration. The [`__next__()`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#iterator.__next__) method of the iterator returned by [`enumerate()`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#enumerate) returns a tuple containing a count (from *start* which defaults to 0) and the values obtained from iterating over *iterable*...

[turbid orbit]

hello guys i don t know where i will start learn can u help me

[golden mortar]

• Automate the Boring Stuff is a really good book for complete beginners and it's free to read online.
• If you prefer to watch video tutorials Corey Schafer's playlist is also really good.
• I also recommend Harvard’s free online course CS50P: Introduction to Programming with Python.
• Python Programming MOOC 2025 is an alternative online course with lots of integrated practice problems you can do directly in the browser.

[jagged belfry]

I wonder if adding step to enumerate would be accepted...

[stray field]

honestly the doc blurb the bot gives for range and enumerate aren't that helpful in understanding what they are. Click into the docs page to learn more.

The "Equivalent to:" section in enumerate may help understand what's happening

[turbid orbit]

thanx me very much

[storm frost]

Hi!

[turbid orbit]

hey

[stray field]

!ytdl

[edgy kraken]

Our youtube-dl, or equivalents, policy

Per Python Discord's Rule 5, we are unable to assist with questions related to youtube-dl, pytube, or other YouTube video downloaders, as their usage violates YouTube's Terms of Service.

For reference, this usage is covered by the following clauses in YouTube's TOS, as of 2021-03-17:

The following restrictions apply to your use of the Service. You are not allowed to:

1. access, reproduce, download, distribute, transmit, broadcast, display, sell, license, alter, modify or otherwise use any part of the Service or any Content except: (a) as specifically permitted by the Service;  (b) with prior written permission from YouTube and, if applicable, the respective rights holders; or (c) as permitted by applicable law;

3. access the Service using any automated means (such as robots, botnets or scrapers) except: (a) in the case of public search engines, in accordance with YouTube’s robots.txt file; (b) with YouTube’s prior written permission; or (c) as permitted by applicable law;

9. use the Service to view or listen to Content other than for personal, non-commercial use (for example, you may not publicly screen videos or stream music from the Service)

[storm frost]

Doh

[uneven laurel]

Is it in python ?

[chilly jasper]

⟦AES⟧ 5x> Δrƚħυя mØЯgΔη > 3x> yØʊ’Яε gØØd mΔn > 1x> ⧫

[stray field]

Is that your AES encryption key?

[rose peak]

!d for

[edgy kraken]

for

8.3. The for statement

The for statement is used to iterate over the elements of a sequence (such as a string, tuple or list) or other iterable object:

for_stmt: "for" target_list "in" starred_expression_list ":" suite
          ["else" ":" suite]
```...

Similar names: django.for

[stoic nova]

is it worth type hinting -> None if your type checker knows this anyways

[robust ledge]

That's up to you. I would say it is, for readability and the chance that the next dev doesn't have your type checker.

[stray field]

It's up to you, just note that mypy will ignore function bodies that have no annotations. So def _() -> None would be required if there are no args.

I will say that providing return type helps the type checker. Without it, it has to do more work and read the body to determine the return type.

Sometimes it's trivial, but with more complex functions with complex types...

[dusk adder]

doing -> None feels like a chore, but it does make things more explicit and clear

[spice hill]

mypy treats lack of return type annotation as -> Any, not -> None. So if you want mypy to work, that's not an option

[jagged belfry]

It prevents you from accidentally transmuting it from -> None as well

[warped sigil]

yeah do it

[jagged belfry]

-> None "this doesn't return anything, and shouldnt"

[dusk adder]

transmuting?

[jagged belfry]

Adding a return accidentally

[spice hill]

You mean, if you intend to return None but are actually returning something now?

yeah, that's also a good reason

unless you have some tooling that warns you when you omit an annotation on a function that doesn't return None (you'd have to write such a tool yourself)

[dusk adder]

right, the type checker would infer the return from the body

[spice hill]

(if the type checker is not mypy)

[jagged belfry]

Function signatures are contracts: I take this, I give you this

Write them as needed, basically

[dusk adder]

it gets really annoying sometimes