python-discussion

[pallid garden]

well yea

[junior vigil]

but if you made it in an app, and your coding skills is that good then yeah

since i kinda have an image of how i want my app to look like, but i dont want to code that for days then it ends up looking like garbage

[swift sparrow]

Are you talking about the layout or the actual visual design?

[frozen narwhal]

I don't remmeber the guy that sent me the python turtle docs, but it helped so much thank you.

[mild sequoia]

there was a guy in here earlier building a game w/ a turtle module as the intro to the ui, i wonder how often the turtle module comes up

[junior vigil]

they teach it in schools and uni

[half pewter]

not often really

[junior vigil]

"for me"

[half pewter]

it's a fun little exploritory app

library*

[junior vigil]

both

[half pewter]

people tend to gravitate toward tkinter/pyside or pygame

[tiny oyster]

So did you found out solution ?

I think you should write in bit detail

[junior vigil]

well no one replied in the 3 servers i sent this msg to, except 1

just told me "make the UI normally" then if you feel like improving "improve"

[tiny oyster]

What was the problem?

[junior vigil]

no problem except that my UI looks shit, my program is almost complete i just got to make Boiler plate UI and let an API do all the work for me

[pallid garden]

UI design is not exactly straightforward

it requires some creativity for sure

[tiny oyster]

There is something called Tkinters

[junior vigil]

but i cannot reach the 2nd step unless if the 1st step is good, and if there was no way i can properly design my UI then i might lose the possibility for bonus points

[pallid garden]

draw it out on paper

[junior vigil]

am using kivy, i know about this so the code it gives wont run

i just want somewhere i can design my UI with graphical stuff, sure i can block stuff out but that's not what i want

[pallid garden]

i still dont understand what you want

[tiny oyster]

Use chatgpt,

I do havego version. If you want to get answers, give me your prompt detail. Chatgpt can design UI

[pallid garden]

figma is also blocks

everything turns from blocks into actual designs

[mild sequoia]

doesnt the ui program change based on if you are developing for ios/android/windows?

[tiny oyster]

Why don't you ask in Figma server or UI community?

[junior vigil]

look, what i need is an app/website that allows me to design my apps so that:

1. i can block out ui [as in see where each block of text/image go]
2. make the most perfect UI reperesentation so that when i code i know exactly what to research and google to make that effect work
3. doing that on paper wont let me hit step 1 and 2

[junior vigil]

not gonna let chatGPT outsource artistic creativity, i can for sure design something better than ChatGPT. i had extensive experience doing Game-Dev UI except i actually was able to design all the UI by hand not by scripts. and since am designing everything in scripts my hands are tied to what potential i could bring

[pallid garden]

sounds like figma then

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval message

!rules chatgpt

[edgy kraken]

Rules

10. Do not copy and paste answers from ChatGPT or similar AI tools.

[hot abyss]

My bad

[spare quest]

!rules 6

[edgy kraken]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[half pewter]

kind of a rule 6?

[hot abyss]

ok let me delete it

[half pewter]

anyway, since you're asking what we're tired of...

[pallid garden]

i struggle to think of a piece of code that i rewrote

[tiny oyster]

!rules

[edgy kraken]

Rules

The rules and guidelines that apply to this community can be found on our rules page. We expect all members of the community to have read and understood these.

[hot abyss]

So, how to advertise something?

[tiny oyster]

It's good to forget

[hot abyss]

like any platform or somewhere else?

[visual juniper]

reddit maybe

[pallid garden]

somewhere else

[spare quest]

depends
tkinter I believe tries to keep the "native" feel, so it looks different depending on the os, however stuff you did specify like the layouts should be relatively the same

[half pewter]

as in, you don't rewrite code?

[hot abyss]

What channel if you know any?

[pallid garden]

DRY

[visual juniper]

sorry , i dont

[half pewter]

dunno what that means but I think I'm missing some context

[hot abyss]

Cool thanks

[pallid garden]

people keep saying that LLMs are good for boilerplate code

i just havent found a case where i couldn't abstract it out into its own function

im sure it's useful for some people

[visual juniper]

[golden mortar]

Sometimes it's not a matter of whether you can break out an abstraction, it's a matter of whether you should.

[pallid garden]

i dont really consider that

i just do it (which may not be prudent)

[golden mortar]

Abstractions tend to increase code complexity.

And that can make it harder to maintain and extend.

[hot abyss]

I think it is useful for just to create a layout for the type of code you want but in the end you have to make some changes on your own. How correct am I?

[golden mortar]

Fairly correct.

Bootstrapping a draft to work from is one of the major things I use LLMs for.

[pallid garden]

my english is not really good enough to understand what bootstrapping means in the context of a draft

[golden mortar]

It might not be the most accurate use of the term, but I mean to automatically create a starting point.

[pallid garden]

i just use uv init && uv venv

[golden mortar]

I mean the code itself.

I find that it's often mentally easier to change something that exists than to create something from a blank slate.

[pallid garden]

personally it's the opposite for me

[half pewter]

Not worried about your grey matter though?

Not to question your intellectual capacity but I find that LLMs sort of trigger auto-pilot

[spare quest]

you can just turn off llm auto complete no? if you're worried about that

[tiny oyster]

Can you please See this, about selecting course

@visual juniper

Microsoft python developer professional certificate:

https://coursera.org/professional-certificates/microsoft-python-developer

University of Michigan, Python for everybody

https://coursera.org/specializations/python

Python3

https://coursera.org/specializations/python-3-programming

[inner river]

Hi

[tiny oyster]

Hey

[half pewter]

ofc, I don't use it in a professional capacity so it doesn't ever make sense for me to use it. In that setting, I wonder if the there would be long term consequences though.

Hay is for horses and me

[tiny oyster]

Can anyone suggest me which course to do?

[half pewter]

!res In general, we recommend CS50

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[golden mortar]

I can imagine that it could be a problem in theory. But I don't experience it as a problem in practice. I always use it to produce code I could have written myself, just faster. I never commit anything I don't understand. Maybe it requires a lot of discipline for some people. But it seems to not be a problem for me.

[tiny oyster]

But i have Coursera and linkedin learning subscriptions

[pallid garden]

i think it's also the fact that i enjoy writing code

[spare quest]

for me since (un?)fortunately the models I use aren't really top tier so I don't trust them that much, (and also to cheap out and save tokens), I have autocomplete off
I trigger one manually when I think they can work, or usually I use them to make a usable skeleton and edit it

[golden mortar]

If the LLM introduces a concept I'm unfamiliar with, I read about it from a 3rd party source before I use it, sort of as if I had found it through googling, which I frequently did in pre-LLM eras.

[visual juniper]

out of the 3 , the microsoft one looks good , not only do you get a familiarity for python , they also show you some usage in different fields which is pretty nice imo
the other two just feel like just another python course

[tiny oyster]

Okay

[wet lotus]

did i spam anything

?

i was hacked sorry guys 😭

[visual juniper]

yes you spammed very very bad stuff

[wet lotus]

damn sorry bro 😕

[winged shale]

Change your password

[wet lotus]

already did

[winged shale]

Take revenge

Hack him back

[wet lotus]

one was in new york one was in German

[wet lotus]

how tf

[winged shale]

Also use 2fa if you can

[wet lotus]

just did

[visual juniper]

2FA should be mandatory in 2025

[wet lotus]

i didn't noticed that 2fa is disabled 😔

[winged shale]

Agree

[grizzled solar]

Idk why everyone whose account has been compromised always has 2FA turned off
For hecking, a token is needed which 2FA cannot protect so how does it work?

[harsh swallow]

Uh... What token is needed for hacking?

[grizzled solar]

I mean to get control of someone's account, a token is what is needed, right?

[winged shale]

Password?

[grizzled solar]

And even if 2FA is enabled, having the token cannot save it

[harsh swallow]

You mean like discord and stealing a token? That's different approach to attack than actually cracking a password or checking reused passwords from leaks from other sites

[visual juniper]

2FA means , you have to authenticate yourself an additional time , usually with a different thing apart from your regular password

[grizzled solar]

In that case, how do they umm forge the "click the link in email to get access" thing

[harsh swallow]

Token stealing on discord is akin to stealing cookies for a website. The attacker already has to be on your machine and the site/app has to have little protections (e.g. some invalidate a session if useragent is different or you use different ip)

[grizzled solar]

Like when I don't have 2FA enabled, I get an email something like "New Location detected"

[visual juniper]

i think you are mixing up tons of different things

[harsh swallow]

Forge what? Attackers use that email to just take your login + password, no tokens

[visual juniper]

2FA means , even after you enter your password for login , it wont log you in untill you authenticate yourself in some other way

this "other method" can be anything , an app or an SMS or whatever

[sand hornet]

👀 Yeah…

[grizzled solar]

It's either email + password + 2fa or email + password + click the verify ip ("new location detected") link in email, right?

[slow rivet]

Or getting a malicious program running on your computer.
Or tricking you too scanning a malicious qr code using the discord app

[warm ridge]

I don’t use 2FA

[visual juniper]

ok

[grizzled solar]

The qr thing is new, I'll ask about that later
But in the former case having 2FA should not matter, no?

[warm ridge]

Thanks for letting me join the conversation, I guess?

[visual juniper]

its a public channel anyone can join or leave 🤷

[wet lotus]

isnt steam using qr?

[warm ridge]

I was saying I feel treated like I’m an annoyance

[visual juniper]

if you feel like you have been mistreated by someone , i think you can DM modmail about it

[sand hornet]

So, I have to admit that there are some things some companies refuse to protect. Discord and user token reuse is an attack vector Discord refuses to do anything about (trust me, I’ve tried to get them to care).

Logging in to Discord: That said in order to login to Discord (as any random user), username + password with optional 2FA is one way. They also have the QR code thing (don’t scan random QR codes and approve sign ins that way).

Creating malicious emails: If you see an @discord.com email in the from, you’re probably fine. Go ahead and click that link. However, if you see something unfamiliar there, maybe don’t click that link. Instead, send that over to junk/spam. Emails are basically glorified MS Word documents. They can have links, they can have images, they can even contain JavaScript. Email, by far, is one of the worst things to exist when it comes to security…and yet we use it every day like it’s normal.

[ionic oak]

print(__file__)
``` this prints out `c:\Users\User\Desktop\python\real programs\test.py`, how do i make it print out `c:\Users\User\Desktop\python\real programs` no matter where the file is located?

[harsh swallow]

Uh, no. You're mixing a lot of stuff.
Email is a kind of second factor. It may show up additional info like ip and location, but the code sent is still a kind of second factor.

You said "forge" email with that link before - this is not forging the "click here to login/click to verify ip", it's always forging emails like "someone tried to login to your account, we blocked it, now log in via this link so you can see more info" - and that link is normal fake login page, where they steal your username+pass (phishing).
That forged email is not connected to 2fa AT ALL.

And that's the case of attackers stealing password (not "token") where 2fa actually saves your arse - because unless the attackers are already checking your password at this same moment, they can't ask you for 2fa code.
And some second factors only work for given website (physical keys like yubikey, for some protocols used in second factor) or show that additional info like ip/location so it also saves your arse.

That's why 2fa is good. Going around 2fa or somehow getting the user to give the attacker that second factor is usually hard

[swift sparrow]

you can get the directory of a file using os.path.dirname

import os

file_root = os.path.dirname(__file__)

[ionic oak]

oh okay that's good, tysm

[idle sorrel]

i was switching database from local db.sqllite3 to postgreesql how do i import those data in postgree sql?

[harsh swallow]

You can use pathlib.Path to turn such string into an object you can easily manipulate.
So import pathlib and then SCRIPT_DIR = pathlib.Path(__file__).resolve().parent - I use resolve to make sure it's absolute path, then take parent to get the directory
Then files in the same directory will be SCRIPT_DIR / "filename.jpg" etc. Path objects work anywhere where you'd normally pass a string path, so you don't need to modify anything else

[rare gazelle]

what are your thoughts about this:

def find_numbers(text):
    return list(map(float, re.findall(r"[-+]?(?:\d*\.*\d+)", text)))

[golden mortar]

How long-lived are Discord session tokens?

[jagged belfry]

!e I wonder if you can..
!e ```py
from pathlib import Path

print(Path(file) / "test.txt")

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

/home/main.py/test.txt

[jagged belfry]

oop

nope that doesn't work lol, you do need that .parent..

[golden mortar]

Sounds like a pain in the ass

"regular"?

[sand hornet]

User session tokens: supposed to be reset about once every 24h
User session refresh tokens: idk, last time I checked, you can refresh even after these no longer work usually

[jagged belfry]

A long time. I want to say permanent, because there's a regular refresh you can do with them

TLDR

if the discord client itself doesn't log you out, the token lasted that long

because there's no difference between what the client can do and what someone who has hacked your client can do

[golden mortar]

But if a token is stolen, is the refresh token typically stolen as well?

[jagged belfry]

and I don't recall being logged out of my discord because of expiration forever

[sand hornet]

It comes when you make a refresh query to the API, so sometimes?

Your old refresh tokens get invalidated once someone clicks that “log out of all sessions” button

[rare gazelle]

^?

[golden mortar]

It's still a bunch of admin work

[sand hornet]

Literally doesn’t work if Discord doesn’t properly secure their endpoint. It’s one more thing in the mix that introduces more security vectors

[golden mortar]

Are you talking about automating the password change?

I would guess Discord uses captcha to prevent setting passwords automatically

[jagged belfry]

I'm pretty sure the standard discord token for users doesn't need refreshing

But I know they changed it in the last few years, splitting out MFA and stuff. MFA tokens are structured differently now

regardless, it doesn't really matter, because discord doesn't do anything fancy like store your refresh token in the TPM. It's just in the JS like everything else.

If they have it, they're you. The only way out is a password reset. Which is deliberately not automateable via cloudflare

Practically speaking this is a pointless security boundary. Nobody is intercepting discord requests between you and their server, and if they are, then you're already fucked because they can MITM TLS and serve you whatever javascript they want anyway.

[golden mortar]

Which boundary?

[jagged belfry]

Protecting tokens

"What kind of encryption protects me if someone has a knife to my throat" it's pointless

[sand hornet]

Treat this like it’s 2003. Nobody uses SSL certificates for their banking website. C’mon everybody just uses the ATM. You log in to a site on your laptop using public WiFi (rare but it existed). You think nothing of it, and log out then head to work. You can’t stop thinking that someone was looking over your shoulder while you type that password in and decide to log in once you get to work to be certain. Now, you could’ve sworn the savings account showed $49,000 but for some reason that looks like $47,000. So, you’re a bit confused and call the bank to confirm. They say it’s at $47,000 so you ask them to freeze your account until you can change your password and visit them in-person to have a new card issued.

What do you do in this instance? You know that;

• Your bank put your account on freeze for the day to retain you as a customer
• Either your credentials online were stolen, or the credit card was stolen
• as the only thing you can recall doing that day was logging in to your bank on public WiFi, was it that WiFi network’s fault? Was it the banks fault? Who would’ve known that this could have been an issue?

I’m asking you to go along with it. It’s designed to act as a way for me to be able to explain something in terms of security, this isn’t what we’re discussing either but a literary device to bridge a communication gap.

[jagged belfry]

Then I think rule 5 applies

[sand hornet]

It is considered against Discord TOS. It would be breaking rule 5.

[pallid garden]

if i understand tokens correctly, once they expire you use it to refresh the token and get another one, but there is a time limit before which you have to refresh the token otherwise you will have to login

[jagged belfry]

The TLDR of security boundaries is you must have, at some point, a token that represents the user and can do anything the user can do. Any restrictions applied to said token also apply to that user. This is why there's things like session resets and security logging, because you can apply those to users and they won't be upset.

A refresh token enforces persistence. You can have a token with the restriction "must regularly check in" by changing the user representation token to a refresh token, and only allowing the temporary token for some time. Akin to badging in at an office. But the same principle applies: once someone has the refresh token, they have full access. And the user must regularly expose and refresh said token

The reason we have auth tokens at all is because passwords get shared

auth tokens do not

[pallid garden]

people would share auth tokens if they could

[jagged belfry]

this allows you to reset an auth token or use an auth token that isn't by chance shared with other services or reused beyond what you want. It also allows you to force a user to "log in" to authenticate with their "I am me" proof (password).

[sand hornet]

Well, Discord’s implementation creates a refresh token and bearer token on each sign in. Refresh tokens are a cookie that you can use to get new bearer tokens in their case..

[jagged belfry]

People do anyway. We have a friggin filter for it, thankfully not triggered as much these days, but back when dpy vaguely supported userbotting every single day we had someone posting their user token asking for help with their userbot

[sand hornet]

I’ll move to DMs, I have a fun one for ya

[jagged belfry]

And of course if you were userbotting you could just use regex to tokenscrape and hijack all of those accounts in realtime

[rare gazelle]

i've now done it like this:

def find_numbers(text, accept_int=True, accept_float=True):
    # global text_numbers  # not changing its value

    current_result = []

    if accept_int is True:
        if accept_float is True:
            current_result.extend(
                (
                    float(number)
                    if '.' in number
                    else int(number)
                )
                for number in re.findall(r"[+-]?\d+(?:\.\d+)?", text)
            )
        else:
            current_result.extend(map(int, filter(text_numbers.__contains__, text)))
    elif accept_float is True:
        current_result.extend(map(float, re.findall(r"[+-]?\d+\.\d+", text)))

    return current_result

[jagged belfry]

We didn't need to because we had a real bot do it

[mild sequoia]

the amount of ceo's/executives that request to remove themselves from mfa or request bypass because they are too important is astronomically hilarious (and also a reason during security breaches that insurance companies who provide cyberinsurance will ask for the 2fa/mfa logs to prove they were secured at time of breach, otherwise no payout)

[jagged belfry]

Something that comes to mind is findall() doesn't do overlapping matches

[rare gazelle]

i dont want overlapping matches

[jagged belfry]

idk what you're doing so idk if it applies

cool

[rare gazelle]

like 5.2 to give both 5 and 2 as ints also?

[jagged belfry]

It just does first match

so I think 5.2.2 will get you 5.2 and 2

[rare gazelle]

yea thats fine

i wonder if my regexes are tight though

[jagged belfry]

Looks fine, assuming you just want 5.2 and +5 and -5 and 5 cases

[ionic oak]

if an error is "raised", can the program still run? i'm for the program to try to detect a darkmode button in an app, and if it fails, locate a lightmode button
but rn when it fails to locate the darkmode one, it just kinda gives up? im not sure as i still dont fully understand the "raising" thing

[jagged belfry]

Other random thoughts are handling of 5e10 or 5,000 or 5_000

or the weird standard some contries use of 5.000,00 for 5000

[rare gazelle]

actually i should strip the plus at the beginning when parsing

[jagged belfry]

But otherwise it looks good

[swift sparrow]

if an error is raised from a function, the function will stop performing, but it won't stop the entire program

[swift sparrow]

Can you show your code?

[rare gazelle]

u mean 5,000?

[fresh sentinel]

Anyone got any ideas on a dc bot i can make

[jagged belfry]

some people use periods as the thousands separator

and I swear some location doesn't do sets of threes either

[ionic oak]

wait so i dont need an if statement that does something when the thing fails, i can just continue?

[jagged belfry]

localization? hell

[rare gazelle]

💀

[sand hornet]

It’s all one big property list on iOS

[fervent matrix]

Get weather info from some API and display that for specific city that the user requests @fresh sentinel

Sorry wrong reply, mobile is a bit wonky

[jagged belfry]

!e print(int("²"))

[swift sparrow]

it entirely depends on what you're trying to do. You shouldn't really ever rely on your program failing to handle some logic (other than some situations where try/except is handy)

[ionic oak]

uhhhhhhhhh i deleted it cuz i made a reeeaaall mumbo jumbo that didnt work in like 50 ways so i wanted to rewrite it

[swift sparrow]

Can't really help if we can't see what you tried

[rare gazelle]

\d+ matches it?

[ionic oak]

NordHomeButtUnclicked = pyautogui.locateOnScreen(f"{file_root}\\PyAutoGuiLOCATEIMAGES\\NORDVPN darkmode home unclicked.png")
``` soo what do i do if it fails?

[ionic oak]

ill rewrite it and if it still doesnt work ill come back in a moment

[fresh sentinel]

Alr bett

[jagged belfry]

!E ```py
print(int("६"))

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

6

[jagged belfry]

!e ```py
import re
print(re.match("\d", "६"))

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | /home/main.py:2: SyntaxWarning: "\d" is an invalid escape sequence. Such sequences will not work in the future. Did you mean "\\d"? A raw string is also an option.
002 |   print(re.match("\d", "६"))
003 | <re.Match object; span=(0, 1), match='६'>

[swift sparrow]

ok in this case it does raise an exception if it isn't found, so this would be a good time to use try/except

[ionic oak]

if i ask how the try/except thing works is it a simple explanation or a whole lesson..?

[swift sparrow]

you could wrap the whole thing in a function and have it return None on fail

[swift sparrow]

it's basically an if/else that checks to see if a program would error in a situation

!e

try:
    print(x)
    print("Inside Try")
except NameError as e:
    print(e)
print("After try/except")

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | name 'x' is not defined
002 | After try/except

[swift sparrow]

you can see here the program continues after the try/except block

[ionic oak]

i dont fully understand it so i'll look into it, tysm!

[swift sparrow]

I'm trying to print x which doesn't exist, so the program would error

instead of erroring though, it goes into the except block (which is just printing out what the error message would have been)

[ionic oak]

so the except is preventing the program from crashing?

[swift sparrow]

yes

try is where you put the code that could potentially error

except is what to do if the code inside try errors

but you could see I specifically had except NameError because I only want to handle NameErrors. If any other time of error were to occur, I would still want to know

[ionic oak]

and if it succedees, it just does it?

[swift sparrow]

yes

import pyautogui

try:
    pyautogui.locateOnScreen(...)
except pyautogui.ImageNotFoundException as e:
    ...

so for you, you would set it up like this

obviously fill in the ... with the actual details

[ionic oak]

oh my lord that's a livesaver

thank u soo much

[rare gazelle]

so basically look for all the , and remove them later? basically they dont effect anything?
wait... 5.000,00 means 5000? the hell

[golden mortar]

Catching a single exception in the same function is pretty simple, but there is more to it than that. To fully explain it is more like a whole lesson.

But you can use the former without understanding the latter.

[ionic oak]

i'll use this one so far, i'll be improving the program later

[mild sequoia]

Japanese & Chinese currencies both use a comma+dot for the thousands/decimal. I think there's more, to google i go

[rare gazelle]

lets just pretend that doesn't exist

[ionic oak]

btw what's e? im guessing it stands for error and if it does, can i use it multiple times or do i need to make a new variable every time?

[swift sparrow]

it's a variable so you can use whatever name you want, but e is commonly used here. It lets you access information about the error that would have occurred

[ionic oak]

that makes sense, but if no error occurs i can use it again right?

[swift sparrow]

yeah

[ionic oak]

wait nevermind i just realized its not a good idea

[swift sparrow]

it will just overwrite the previous one which is fine

[ionic oak]

oh

[swift sparrow]

it's no different from reusing loop variable names

[ionic oak]

okay thats good then

[swift sparrow]

it doesn't matter if the code has already moved on

[golden mortar]

You can always reuse any name in Python.

[swift sparrow]

don't overwrite names that you still need to access

for i in range(5):
    print(i)

for i in range(5):
    print(i * 2)

[mild sequoia]

is that a bad habit to avoid? or is it just sometimes needed?

[swift sparrow]

it's perfectly fine to reuse i here because I've already moved on from the first loop. Unless I really need a reason to access the last iteration of the first loop

[swift sparrow]

nah it's super common, and usually you're dealing with different scopes anyways so it doesn't matter

[jagged belfry]

It's a balancing act between keeping sane names and accidentally using the wrong variable

for loops and other common stuff reuse clearly wins

but for "I have a name in the module and one in my function" it gets sketchier

It'd similarly be insane to use i1 to i100 because you were afraid to reuse a loop variable

[swift sparrow]

just throw an underscore in front

[rare gazelle]

well... what about this:

def find_numbers(text, accept_int=True, accept_float=True):
    current_result = []

    if accept_int or accept_float:
        for number in re.findall(r"[+-]?\d[\d,]*(?:\.\d+)?", text):
            current_number = number.replace(",", "")

            if '.' in current_number:
                if accept_float:
                    current_result.append(float(current_number))
            else:
                if accept_int:
                    current_result.append(int(current_number))

    return current_result

[jagged belfry]

tbh I just avoid having names in my module namespace

[golden mortar]

Opinions differ a bit about this. Some people will tell you never to reuse any names in the same scope, others think it's fine if it's clear from the context what each name is referring to at that point in the code.

[rare gazelle]

maybe i should do not in and check accept_int first, not important though

[jagged belfry]

The unfortunate gotcha:

how do you tell between (15,120) and (15120)

[rare gazelle]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[swift sparrow]

I generally avoid it for standard variable assignment, but it's a free for all when it comes to loop naming

[rare gazelle]

ok, a parameter

[swift sparrow]

selected = []
for item in editor:
    if item.is_checked():
        selected.append(item)

for item in selected:
    item.do_something()

[rare gazelle]

i dont know

[swift sparrow]

I do something like this often (pseudocode-ish)

[rare gazelle]

😡

[jagged belfry]

You can't unfortunately

[rare gazelle]

i can include some paramter that decides the approach

[jagged belfry]

You may be able to ask chatgpt about the context

Huh. A real use case for AI

[charred tusk]

Yeah there’s rules about this
https://docs.astral.sh/ruff/rules/redefined-loop-name/

[jagged belfry]

Yeah. Localization functiosn typically have thousands_seps="," and stuff like that

[rare gazelle]

😢

[jagged belfry]

@sweet bobcat please don't use us for advertisement

[sweet bobcat]

Okay

[jagged belfry]

Look, language is ass

Did you read or have you read? Are you lead or are you the lead?

[charred tusk]

That’s okay
The only thing you can’t do is this
Everything else is fair game
https://docs.astral.sh/ruff/rules/loop-iterator-mutation/

[rare gazelle]

makes me wanna go cry in the corner

[jagged belfry]

Reed read the reed read as Leed led from the lead with a lead lead.

[swift sparrow]

oh yeah, definitely not

[rare gazelle]

😫

[swift sparrow]

I'm pretty bad at always using f for opening files. I'm starting to use f_in for reading and f_out for writing

[charred tusk]

I did that on accident way too many times back when I was a young pupper

[jagged belfry]

The trick is to just quietly whisper "it's out of scope" whenever it comes to localization

That all belongs in the template

[jagged belfry]

I like if and of

But then.. wouldn't that

examines own brain

[swift sparrow]

uhhhhhhh

[jagged belfry]

!e ```py
with open("main.py") as if:
pass

[swift sparrow]

i_f and o_f

[edgy kraken]

:x: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 1.

001 |   File "/home/main.py", line 1
002 |     with open("main.py") as if:
003 |                             ^^
004 | SyntaxError: invalid syntax

[jagged belfry]

Yeah I thought so so why do I remember that

[rare gazelle]

doing the regex for every third being , is bullshit

[charred tusk]

Oh I’ve stopped using open for the most part
I tend to have all the text I want ready by the time I get to the IO, so I just Path().write_text() in a single concise function call

[swift sparrow]

a lot of it is json but I guess I could use json.dumps/loads more

[rare gazelle]

maybe i'll just throw , to the garbage

and not handle it at all

[jagged belfry]

That's what I would do

[charred tusk]

char for char in text if char in string.ascii_digits
Just discard everything that isn’t a digit

[mild sequoia]

can you normalize the data by replacing it with . ? this way its in a format you prefer? (apologies if already answered)

[timid kite]

Yall, i have a question, can somebody suggest some innovative and complex projects i can make for a competition? I have 2 month deadline(20th of february) i can try to do in C/C++/C#/Python or Html/css/js. Competition allows web or desktop application and there is no theme.

[mild sequoia]

(sounded like you had financial data but if its just something else, total nvm)

[charred tusk]

!projects

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[rare gazelle]

def find_numbers(text, accept_int=True, accept_float=True):
    current_result = []

    if accept_int or accept_float:
        for number in re.findall(r"[+-]?\d+(?:\.\d+)?", text):
            if '.' not in number:
                if accept_int:
                    current_result.append(int(number))
            else:
                if accept_float:
                    current_result.append(float(number))

    return current_result

alright no comma handling anymore

[jagged belfry]

...

I open my mouth like a demon

Do you desire handling things like .5?

[rare gazelle]

no

[silent whale]

Guys is it just me, or Error Handling makes about 60% of your code?

[rare gazelle]

ENOUGH

xD

[jagged belfry]

then looks good to me 👍

[rare gazelle]

fuck .5

[pallid garden]

kinda

[rare gazelle]

or 5.

[mild sequoia]

5,

[pallid garden]

in a real world scenario you are assuming your user is stupid

[rare gazelle]

😡

[pallid garden]

and in many scenarios they are stupid

[rare gazelle]

or any more bullshit!

ok 5. and .5 are actually python valid makes me wanna do it, me mad now

[silent whale]

Like, check if it's str, .strip().lower(), now check if it's valid, now handle all those possible scenarios...

[mild sequoia]

PEBKAC exists for a reason in IT

[pallid garden]

not just in IT

[silent whale]

Yeah!

[rare gazelle]

lets try handling .5 and 5.

[ionic oak]

not sure if this is a python question, but i can't install opencv? pip install opencv-python gives out an error, i'd look at the log but it doesnt exist

[silent whale]

Btw another Rustacean in the Python community? Cool!

[abstract ibex]

imho that is expected in python

[pallid garden]

that's uhhh

not just a nother

[mild sequoia]

can you add --verbose or -v to see if it gives the log path or additional details?

[rare gazelle]

i think that:

r"[+-]?(?:\d+(?:\.\d*)?|\.\d+)"

[dim goblet]

Yhh

[sand hornet]

erases white board
0 days since Rust mentioned in pydis
"We almost made it to one"

[pallid garden]

are you installing globally?

[ionic oak]

Link requires a different Python (3.14.0 not in: '>=3.7,<3.11') is it really worth downgrading..?

[ionic oak]

uhhhh i dont know what that means

[mild sequoia]

are you running install as a superuser or admin?

[silent whale]

Guess that's just how it is then

[pallid garden]

nvm

[dim goblet]

Hey Can I ask u a question

[ionic oak]

should i run try it as admin?

[pallid garden]

that is strange: the pypi says 3.13 is supported

[ionic oak]

i've got 3.14

[pallid garden]

try 3.13

[mild sequoia]

if you are in a position to run it as admin i would attempt so in case its writing or hitting files that require admin/super user

[pallid garden]

there are a bunch of libraries that havent been updated to support 3.14 yet

[pallid garden]

no

what's your question

[dim goblet]

Nothing much

[silent whale]

lol

[rare gazelle]

it'd match empty strings, not good

[ionic oak]

how do i do that? will i need to reinstall any libraries or do whatever with vsc?

[dim goblet]

Just wanna know if you've developed any web app or anything

[pallid garden]

are you using a virtual environment?

[pallid garden]

why...?

[ionic oak]

is that for example vscode?

if so then yes

[pallid garden]

vs code is not directly related to your python venv

[swift sparrow]

virtual environment lets you handle separate python installs/projects/modules without overlapping with others

[pallid garden]

you can open your code in another code editor and it will still work fine

[dim goblet]

If you've... then probably you've gone live and have a payment gateway integrated already. And with payment gateway, atm , I've got issues with that

[pallid garden]

nope, no experience with payment

[dim goblet]

Alright

Thanks for that

[ionic oak]

wait so i didn't actually need to install a library before using it in vscode? 😭

[dim goblet]

Freelancer ?

[swift sparrow]

yes, you always need to install a library before you can use it

you can install a library globally to your python, or to a specific venv

[rare gazelle]

i think that's good

[ionic oak]

oh btw, if i have a library and everything works all well, and i compile it into an exe, the person running it doesnt also need the library right?

[rare gazelle]

actually i dont like it, i'll just remove the option to find .5 and 5.

def find_numbers(text, accept_int=True, accept_float=True):
    current_result = []

    if accept_int or accept_float:
        for number in re.findall(r"[+-]?\d+(?:\.\d+)?", text):
            if '.' not in number:
                if accept_int:
                    current_result.append(int(number))
            else:
                if accept_float:
                    current_result.append(float(number))

    return current_result

thats it

[wary terrace]

yo

guys can u try out my new brlaint_calc. i updated it to v2

https://pypi.org/project/brliant-calc/

[swift sparrow]

Yes, but I've never really played around with turning python programs into exe

[ionic oak]

wouldn't it be a pretty commom thing?

[jade robin]

people normally just the release it along with the source and instructions

in some cases package the interpreter along (iirc sublime does that)

[swift sparrow]

Not necessarily. 99% of the code I write is executed through the console of animation software

So anyone with my code + the software can run it

[ionic oak]

makes sense

[wary terrace]

guys can someone gimme feedback https://pypi.org/project/brliant-calc/

[cursive wraith]

where can i learn about linked list and operations

[reef cosmos]

Halo

[dry yacht]

Wikipedia is always a good starting point

[wary terrace]

guys

can sm1 please chekc this and give me feedback https://pypi.org/project/brliant-calc/

it has the repo link too

[inland karma]

what kind of feedback are you looking for?

@wary terrace

[wary terrace]

uhh any feedback

[inland karma]

well... the option to make aliases is great, but just use the bcalc as the default name, its short and easy to type

the included spec file for whomever whants to run pyinstaller locally is great. though i dont really see the need when you made such a good entrypoint

[grizzled solar]

Nah, she's a snek in the crab community

[wary terrace]

okay well thats fine but bascially how useful is it and how good is it?

[inland karma]

shell completion is essential if anyone would ever want to use this as a shell command

look how uv does it, its a good example on how to make multi shell support for auto completion

[wary terrace]

okay noted.

now can u tell me how useful it is too u?

[inland karma]

bcalc matrix mul "[[1,2],[3,4]]" --m2 "[[5,6],[7,8]]" i dont know what this syntax mean

[dry yacht]

It's not necessarily bad, but would you ever use your program over a regular calculator?
I mean, I maybe can see some rare applications for the matrices and vector stuff, where I wouldn't know of an easy website to perform those, but the rest .

But yeah, the actual code is very simple, except for the alias manager, and I personally don't really like it when some scripts are trying to execute commands with sudo

[wary terrace]

uhhh its for changealiases, since it requires elevated permissions

its safe ofc u can check

[inland karma]

i use numr in my terminal, but this would be very nice as a one off quick calculation

[inland karma]

i would, i hate the normal calcualtor

[jade robin]

i often just use python -c

[inland karma]

same

[wary terrace]

well once u get used to it, its like rlly speedy

[inland karma]

does it support convolutions @wary terrace ?

[wary terrace]

well it multiplies two matrices, --m2 means matrix 2

[wary terrace]

no its simpel i gotta add that stuff

what is why am lookin for feedback

[sacred cypress]

⚠️

if platform.system() == "Windows":
                    result = subprocess.run(['sudo', 'cmd', '/c', 'del', str(alias_path)], capture_output=True)
                else:

https://github.com/aaravmaloo/brliant_calc/blob/master/brliant_calc/alias_manager.py

[inland karma]

oh i see.. is it required to add the keyword ? or would it also work by possition?

[wary terrace]

uhhh?

[wary terrace]

well ig u could try

but i always specify

[inland karma]

i will 😄

[wary terrace]

is there smth wrong with this?

[sacred cypress]

this project is raising some red flags for me, a lot of the implementation seems very simplistic with just some wrapper stuff for sympy and whatnot, but a lot of code devoted to creating binaries in .local/bin and various sudo permission stuff

[wary terrace]

its safe

[sacred cypress]

just at a quick glance

[wary terrace]

u can try it on a vm or smth

[dry yacht]

yeah, exactly my point. It seems safe at a first glance, but yeah, it's a weird focus for a calculator

[inland karma]

aliases does not work in my shell

[neat pawn]

I am unable to get colorful logs in windows pycharm

Even after using coloroma

[wary terrace]

well...

idk man.

[neat pawn]

def setup_logger(
        name: str = None,
        log_file: str = None,
        level: int = logging.INFO,
        to_stdout: bool = True,
) -> logging.Logger:

    color_map = {
        "black": "\033[30m",
        "red": "\033[31m",
        "green": "\033[32m",
        "yellow": "\033[33m",
        "blue": "\033[34m",
        "magenta": "\033[35m",
        "cyan": "\033[36m",
        "white": "\033[37m",
        "reset": "\033[0m",
    }

    class ColorFormatter(logging.Formatter):
        def format(self, record):
            color = getattr(record, "color", None)
            msg = super().format(record)

            if color and color in color_map:
                return f"{color_map[color]}{msg}{color_map['reset']}"
            return msg

    if name is None:
        name = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(__file__))[0]

    # Create folder for log file
    os.makedirs(os.path.dirname(log_file), exist_ok=True)
    log_path = os.path.join(log_file)

    # Base logger
    logger = logging.getLogger(name)
    logger.setLevel(level)
    logger.propagate = False
    logger.handlers.clear()

    # Standard non-colored formatter for file logs
    file_formatter = logging.Formatter(
        '{asctime} [{levelname}] [{className}] {message}',
        style='{'
    )

    # Colored formatter for terminal
    color_formatter = ColorFormatter(
        '{asctime} [{levelname}] [{className}] {message}',
        style='{'
    )

    # File handler (no color)
    file_handler = logging.FileHandler(log_path, encoding="utf-8")
    file_handler.setFormatter(file_formatter)
    logger.addHandler(file_handler)

    # Console handler (with color)
    if to_stdout:
        stream_handler = logging.StreamHandler(sys.stdout)
        stream_handler.setFormatter(color_formatter)
        logger.addHandler(stream_handler)

    return logging.LoggerAdapter(logger, {"className": name})```

[wary terrace]

well i think the linux version i havent tested it yet.

[inland karma]

multiple shell support and tab complete for commands will make it useable

[neat pawn]

if __name__ == '__main__':
    logger = setup_logger(log_file="logs/app.log")

    logger.info("This is a normal info log")

    logger.info("This should be green!", extra={"color": "green"})
    logger.warning("This should be yellow!", extra={"color": "yellow"})
    logger.error("This should be red!", extra={"color": "red"})```

[dry yacht]

Also this line in plotting.py: https://github.com/aaravmaloo/brliant_calc/blob/master/brliant_calc/plotting.py#L21

[edgy kraken]

brliant_calc/plotting.py line 21

y = eval(func_str, {"__builtins__": None}, context)```

[median osprey]

hey guys

[inland karma]

powershell bash zsh fish and maybe some of the other nushell or whats it called

but the four first is a miniumum imho

[neat pawn]

r u talkin to me

[wary terrace]

whats wrong in this?

[dry yacht]

allows for arbitrary code execution

[inland karma]

no, but did you have a question?

[gleaming knoll]

||xonsh is not supported by anything and that makes me sad||

[neat pawn]

^ @inland karma

[inland karma]

not even uv?

[wary terrace]

ummm.... well am new to this stuff but its completely safe. trust me. you can check the entire library and everything.

[dry yacht]

eval is not safe

[gleaming knoll]

you're running your own input. its as unsafe as a python repl
if that calculator was an online service, sure, that would be bad. but it isn't

[inland karma]

<SHELL> The shell to generate the completion script for [possible values: bash, elvish, fish, nushell, powershell, zsh]

[inland karma]

use a real terminal, dont test inside pycharm

[dry yacht]

you're running your own input.
Well. For now.
Imagine this was something on a server that clients would interact with

[gleaming knoll]

"imagine"

[wary terrace]

okay everyone

[neat pawn]

Its the same in command prompt

[wary terrace]

rlly thx for ur feed back

[inland karma]

you have gotten a lot of input! 😄

[dry yacht]

Are you really defending eval?

[inland karma]

no cmd is a shell

[sacred cypress]

idk this project really giving me red flag vibes lol

[gleaming knoll]

yes, why are you attacking it? there is no actual problem here, you're attacking an imaginary scenario that is not happening in practice
you could atleast explain when is it bad instead of not allowing to use it anywhere

[inland karma]

on windows you have the old ancient cmd, windows powershell and powershell

you should be useing powershell imho

[wary terrace]

my idea is basically like vim but with calculator, get used to it... and then it becomes rlly fast to calcualte using that

[inland karma]

but the terminal is the app that runs the shell @neat pawn use Windows Terminal

and open the new Powershell and test using it

[inland karma]

have you tested the one i use ? numr ?

[dry yacht]

There is almost always a better way to do it
Very dangerous and insecure
Makes debugging difficult
Slow

https://stackoverflow.com/a/1832957

[wary terrace]

cant seem to find it

[cyan wolf]

i am fed up of mugging up

[inland karma]

i dont run windows anymore, but try to install it with scoop scoop install numr

but if not, install it from source cargo install --path crates/numr-tui

[pallid garden]

cargo????

[wary terrace]

okay

[gleaming knoll]

the "better way" involves implementing a programming language
the dangerous point does not make sense in this case as i already explained
the debugging is just fine, same as debugging a python expression
and doing that in python will be slower than just using python

[pallid garden]

rust mention !1!!1!1!1!1!1!1111!!

[inland karma]

No result found for 'numr' from Official buckets. Try modifying the filters for possible manifests

[neat pawn]

still the same,

[dry yacht]

I mean... he is implementing a calculator. I would've expected him to... well.. write the calculator stuff

[inland karma]

yes, if you want to install rust source code i think cargo is the way to go

[neat pawn]

I wanted it pycharm, pycharm does have emulate terminal option

[inland karma]

now you know.. tell me more about what you are trying

[pallid garden]

it's a joke #python-discussion message

[inland karma]

yeah, but you cant trust it, its not a real terminal emulator, it cheats alot

[gleaming knoll]

except when beginners say "i am developing a calculator" they really do not mean that, just a bunch of random math operations. for some reason they also progress in the amount of operations rather than making a language with proper expression parsing

[inland karma]

oh i see... i dont get jokes like that! 😄

[neat pawn]

I have pasted the code above, I just want colorful logs

[neat pawn]

Here

[wary terrace]

well what shall i do then?

which operations shall i implement? and what shall i use except of eval?

[pallid garden]

pydis is never beating the rust-dis clone allegation

oh no

[inland karma]

i would argue we all use a bunch of tools, and picking the right one is a key part of this job 😄

[pallid garden]

i just said clone unironically

[dry yacht]

okay, so you kind of do agree with me, but just aren't for the technicality that "they didn't mean to actually write a calculator, despite saying so"

[inland karma]

its not self evident when eval is a good tool and when it is a bad tool

[wary terrace]

well tell me what operations shall i implement and what shall i use instead of eval?

[inland karma]

parse your user input and map it to a dictionary with operators

[wary terrace]

okay

[dry yacht]

well tell me what operations shall i implement
That's already the wrong approach. You don't want to look at "what else can I do", but you really should look at: "How can I do stuff"

[inland karma]

do you want me to write a short example using a few operators?

[wary terrace]

uhh can u tell me the operations i shall implement?

[wary terrace]

no man i dont want to i want tl just do it my self 🙂

[dry yacht]

Are you trolling me rn?

[gleaming knoll]

when you use python, you just write x + (y * z), right? that is much easier than

$ bcalc mul y z
(get a response, say, R)
$ bcalc add x R

[wary terrace]

no?

[inland karma]

all the basics one and all the numpy and scipy ones

[gleaming knoll]

you can do that because it supports the natural way of doing math expressions: operators, and nesting them
to do that, you need to parse the expression
by using eval you run the user input as a python expression, so, you get simple stuff working, but, whats the fun in that? you didnt learn how to parse expressions by doing that. you also cant add custom operators when you do that

[dry yacht]

I literally said in the message you reacted to:
"""

well tell me what operations shall i implement
That's already the wrong approach.
"""

and you respond with:
"""
can u tell me the operations i shall implement?
"""

It really doesn't appear as if you read my message

[inland karma]

you can also search here in chat from messages from me, where i do from operator import

[wary terrace]

uhh id ont understand what do u mean by that?

sorry

[inland karma]

!e

from operator import add, sub, mul, truediv

op = {
    '+': add,
    '-': sub,
    '*': mul,
    '/': truediv,
}


def calculator(a, b, operator):
    return op[operator](a, b)

print(calculator(1, 2, '+'))

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

3

[gleaming knoll]

expanding the list of operations while the tool itself fundamentally has a bad user experience is not what you should focus on

[dry yacht]

^ And also a bad implementation

[gleaming knoll]

have you tried actually using it for any calculation?

[wary terrace]

yes many times

[cyan wolf]

eval("sys.exit()")

[stray sleet]

where can I start learning DSA

[gleaming knoll]

and all those commands that do a single operation seemed fine? and not having variables?
wouldn't it be much better to have nested expressions and variables? like a python REPL, basically, but math specific

[cyan wolf]

leetcode

[wary terrace]

well ill implement that too. thx

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[dry yacht]

!res

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[sacred cypress]

looking at that person's project, I'm just kinda weirded out by the disparity between the simplicity of the code implementing an actual calculator, e.g.:
https://github.com/aaravmaloo/brliant_calc/blob/master/brliant_calc/vectors.py

..vs
https://github.com/aaravmaloo/brliant_calc/blob/master/brliant_calc/alias_manager.py
why all this convoluted functionality to go out of your way to write executable scripts (trying to run subprocesses with sudo and whatnot) for every platform etc. for something that is a very simple project otherwise

does that really not set off some red flags?

try:
                # Create a temporary Python script to write the file
                temp_script = Path.home() / f".brliant_calc_temp_{alias_name}.py"
                script_content = f'''import sys
from pathlib import Path

alias_path = Path(r"{alias_path}")
wrapper_content = "@echo off\\nbrliant_calc %*\\n"

try:
    with open(alias_path, 'w') as f:
        f.write(wrapper_content)
    print("Alias created successfully!")
except Exception as e:
    print(f"Error: {{e}}")
    sys.exit(1)
'''
                with open(temp_script, 'w', encoding='utf-8') as f:
                    f.write(script_content)
                
                # Run with sudo
                result = subprocess.run(
                    ['sudo', 'python', str(temp_script)],
                    capture_output=True,
                    text=True
                )

[stray sleet]

thank you

[gleaming knoll]

its probally gpt-ed and gpt itself copied it from some open source scripts

[dry yacht]

does that really not set off some red flags?
Yes, yes it did

• 2nd part of #python-discussion message
• #python-discussion message

Wait, I was quoting you to yourself. Lmao

@wary terrace Do you know what complex numbers are?

[cyan wolf]

alias_path = Path(r"{alias_path}")

does this work

[wary terrace]

yeah?

[gleaming knoll]

the {} are for the f-string that this is written in (script_content)

[cyan wolf]

oh r is for rawstring

[sacred cypress]

so intending to be malicious (by updating the strings in a future update or something) at worst or AI hot garbage at best, great contribution to pypi : (

[valid ferry]

i need the best course out there to learn AI (LLM, Agent AI, Langchain)
i already made a mentalhealth chatbot that i trained it with pdf files and i used langchain, i saw my friend make an agent and i found it intresting
im originaly a backend developer
i know AI is big thing
i wanna know what field suits me and a recommendation to a good course i can take

[dry yacht]

Do you have the math background to actually understand everything? If not you'll just be developing prompts (in English) without any real programming

[valid ferry]

im a computer science graduate

so i took lots of math courses

[dry yacht]

Bachelor or Master?

[valid ferry]

bachelor

[dry yacht]

okay, so you know most math basics, just might need to take 1 additional course or so specifically tailored for AI.

But that's good, you actually "have a chance", as opposed to many, MANY others inquiring about becoming an AI developer in this chat

[steady rain]

making agentic stuff is just normal software development. it's not actually AI development.

[cyan wolf]

why don't others have a chanc

[golden mortar]

It's developing with AI, not developing AI

[steady rain]

you're basically making a flowchart for an existing LLM to follow. you don't need to know anything about model development to do this.

[valid ferry]

idk im a fresh graduate idk much or what field i should deepen

[dry yacht]

oh, I thought, especially when he was just saying "LLM" on its own (in the LLM, Agent AI, Langchain list), that he was interested in how LLMs work/building an LLM (from scratch)

[steady rain]

most people who think they're interested in AI these days are actually interested in agents, so that's what I figured.

[valid ferry]

what field do u think suits me the most?

[cyan wolf]

thats a hard question for us

[valid ferry]

ok what does an ai developer and a developer who use ai does

[dry yacht]

Do you really think this guy had a chance? #python-discussion message

[cyan wolf]

yeah atleast he know what he wants to be ig

[dry yacht]

I want to be a trillionaire

[valid ferry]

my name is layan (:

[cyan wolf]

well goodluck lol

[steady rain]

you can't become that wealthy without exploiting people and getting obscenely lucky

[valid ferry]

im just asking to explore things i didnt ask u to teach me anything

[cyan wolf]

so you did not had a ML course in your uni?

[valid ferry]

no

[dry yacht]

You can, if you adjust the currency 🐒

[cyan wolf]

oh we have those as electives

[dry yacht]

The Lebanese Pound (LBP) .
LBP/USD = 0.000011

[cyan wolf]

i think if you like programming and problem solving. you could choose both

or what you like

[valid ferry]

and ofc i have a chance u dont decide that someone doesnt have a chance @dry yacht

[silver plover]

My advice: Avoid words like "best" when looking for courses / learning... pick a topic in the field you don't know anything about, and learn / do a project in that.

[dry yacht]

huh? Was I rerferring or talking to you at that point?

[silver plover]

CS50 for AI, for instance, is great at the fundamental ideas... but is just a taste of the field.

[rugged star]

i was working on my python LLM project and accidentally deleted a whole folder with a lot of data in it. is there a recycle bin in linux enviroments

[dry yacht]

yeah, it's called "Trash"

[silver plover]

Doing a MNIST digit recognition project is a good project too

[cyan wolf]

yea did you shift delete?

[rugged star]

how do i go to it

[valid ferry]

thanks

[dry yacht]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval message

[visual juniper]

have you tried using the search option in the menu ?
or opening file explorere and seeing around for a bin symbol

[dreamy parrot]

always backup your data and code

[visual juniper]

imagine tomorrow you turn your laptop on and turns out your SSD got corrupted
GG

[cyan wolf]

git to the rescue

[silver plover]

that depends on how you deleted things and whether it's enabled

[visual juniper]

( i wanted to say more like data backup in general but sure)

[rugged star]

there is no Trash in my bin

[onyx python]

how did you delete it?

[cyan wolf]

you probably did shift delete

[visual juniper]

what OS are you on ? can you show an image of it in OT ?

if you were holding shift while deleting , it may have gotten permenantly deleted

[onyx python]

some command, or using the UI of some app (of so which app)?

[raw bramble]

UnitedStates = Nation(
    name="United States",
    economy = 4,
    military = 4,
    diplomacy = 2
)

def roll(country:Nation,stat:str) -> int:
    stat = stat.upper()
    if stat in ["ECONOMY","MILITARY","DIPLOMACY"]:
        rolled = randint(1, 20) + country.stat
    else:
        print(f'{stat} is not a valid stat')
        return 0
    return rolled

print(roll(UnitedStates,"economy"))

Is there a way to make the equivalent of country.stat work

[silver plover]

They said linux, so I'm assuming "rm"

[rugged star]

how do i check my VM version

[fervent matrix]

(they are in ot0 channel)

[raw bramble]

So if I say roll(Whateverville, "military") it will use Whateverville.military as the atribute to look at

[cyan wolf]

uname -r

[gleaming knoll]

getattr(country, stat)

[rugged star]

6.14.11-4-pve

[raw bramble]

Thank you!

[onyx python]

do you want it to look for any attributes of "country" that are numbers?

Or do you want stat to become an alias for military? nvm 😅 got confused by the dot

[raw bramble]

?

[gleaming knoll]

it might make more sense for nation to store the attributes as a dictionary and then you just access the dict
getattr is on the weird metaprogramming side which you shouldn't need in normal code

[raw bramble]

Yeah that sounds like a good idea

[gleaming iron]

what is that command that brings few nice resources for beginners please

[rigid sapphire]

Have you ever made state or sequence diagram?

[slender urchin]

!res

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[cyan wolf]

!res

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[gleaming iron]

tyvm!

[north chasm]

Yoo

[rigid sapphire]

Do you plan on using this with other instances of Nation aswell?

[onyx python]

sup

[compact loom]

im actually losing my mind after day 1 of aoc

[gleaming knoll]

what did you struggle with?

[compact loom]

part 2 is hell

[wise yarrow]

we try not to say that around here

[frail stirrup]

whats aoc

[peak relic]

sorry

[slender urchin]

Please be polite

[peak relic]

Advent of Code

[gleaming knoll]

Advent of Code, a yearly bunch of christmas-themed programming puzzles https://adventofcode.com/

[frail stirrup]

what the hell am i reading dawg

i suppose this is meant for more polished programmers

[peak relic]

Not really

[compact loom]

its the maths

the maths is hurting my brain

[frail stirrup]

its an entire article vro

[peak relic]

New programmers can also do AoC. Helps exercise problem solving

[golden mortar]

It's actually on the lighter end of programming puzzle competitions

[wise yarrow]

nope, the earlier days can be quite good for beginners

[compact loom]

does this mean im sub beginner

cooked

[peak relic]

Dont worry about it. You'll get there

[golden mortar]

I mean, you solved one yesterday

[frail stirrup]

its not that idk how t osolve it i odnt understand it at all

[peak relic]

If you found it challenging already on day 1, but managed to solve it, you are growing. Keep it up 🦾

[compact loom]

no im still trying to do part 2 lol

[golden mortar]

What part don't you understand?

[peak relic]

✨ progress ✨

[wise yarrow]

no, you just weren't familiar with modulo
it's hard to qualify things like "beginner" anyways because people come in new to programming with all sorts of different backgrounds

[golden mortar]

You solved one part, that's very significant

[peak relic]

especially if you are doing it in a different programming language

If you bet that I would do it in Rust, I would struggle too

[frail stirrup]

suprisingly its harder to point out what hard

[compact loom]

i just dont understand what im doing wrong here

i cant figure it out

[wise yarrow]

anything specific you're struggling with?

[peak relic]

Is there not a AOC channel for this?

[golden mortar]

Several

[gleaming knoll]

#aoc-solution-hints kind of
#1444916008325349478 spoils whole solutions

[frail stirrup]

i understood what its saying, if dial does this and that
just idk what its asking me to do with such info

[peak relic]

huh... I don't see it

[compact loom]

yeah but nobody responded and i just wanna get this done 🫠

[peak relic]

oh the aoc channels are hidden from me

strange

[rigid sapphire]

by that you don't mean something like right?

"Military": lambda x: x.military,
"Economy": lambda x: x.economy, ...

[golden mortar]

It says in the puzzle "What's the actual password to open the door?", so it's asking you to enter the password.

[gleaming knoll]

no i dont

[onyx python]

what framework is adventofcode.com made with?

[rigid sapphire]

I'm guessing best way to do it is just make a function in class?

[golden mortar]

Are you asking how the site creator made the website?

[onyx python]

yas

[rigid sapphire]

Then why did you mention dictionary can't this be js done by a tuple?

[frail stirrup]

right , how

i will jsut not worry about it

i cant code a calculator independently yet

[golden mortar]

It says in the puzzle how to compute the password

[golden mortar]

I don't think the website source is open

[abstract ibex]

imho it doesn’t use a framework

[gleaming knoll]

probally some funny perl scripts on the backend and vanilla js

[slender urchin]

If you're curious about how Advent of Code works, it's running on some custom
Perl code. Other than a few integrations (auth, analytics, social media), I
built the whole thing myself, including the design, animations, prose, and all
of the puzzles.```

From a comment in the html source

[rigid sapphire]

I'm guessing u mean

self.stat = {
"Military": int,
...
}
if x in self.stat: randint(..) + self.stat[x]...

[gleaming knoll]

yes

[abstract ibex]

imho the creator gave a presentation on how he made it which u can find on youtube

[gleaming knoll]

you probally mean iirc not imho, thats not an "opinion", thats just something you remember

[abstract ibex]

it's my new ragebait tic

[onyx python]

does the advent of code thing let me submit incorrect answers?

[gleaming knoll]

it will tell you that its incorrect

[onyx python]

or will it tell me if Im wrong?

noice

[slender urchin]

You do get a cooldown if you get it wrong too often

[peak relic]

Bruteforcing the answer can't be the answer obviously

[gleaming knoll]

if the answer was a bool though.. just try twice at worst

[slender urchin]

Bruteforcing d1p2 worked fine for me 😛

[peak relic]

📝 I guess it works sometimes

[rigid sapphire]

So gettattr(self, str) is bad?

self.military = int
self.economy = int
self ... = int

if x in ("military", "economy"..):
    return randint(..) + gettattr(self, x)
    print(..)
    return 0 

I think it depends if the Len(stat) is too big then you might wanna use a collection?

[gleaming knoll]

getattr is unusual to see in normal code, if you have control over the structure of the data its easy and not weird to just use a dict if the primary way you access it is through a dynamic key

[rigid sapphire]

like ... what's not normal code?

[gleaming knoll]

metaprogramming, e.g. the implementation of dataclass

[rigid sapphire]

Where is it used?

🐻_ _

[abstract ibex]

🐻 😭

imho we don't have enough context to say if it makes sense here

[ancient sequoia]

@rigid sapphire it's also used in frameworks like django. basically the way to access a DB or generate html forms is made by a metaprogramming layer

because it let's user define a lot of custom information and rules

but back to your point usually a class is a known set of public information and methods (its interface). and you use that certainty to access that information with '.' (that's another way to say what @gleaming knoll said)

[ivory flicker]

as a beginner to python - what editor/tools should I use that is used in the real job world? I would like to be consistent in what I learn on and what I would potentially using in real life. I would like to dabble in data analysis/science/engineering and web app/software development

[pastel sluice]

VS Code is a common choice

[pallid garden]

vscode

well, vscodium

[pastel sluice]

here is a good guide to getting started with it via Python https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/python-tutorial

[pallid garden]

definitely turn off LLM autocomplete

especially while you are learning

[serene bridge]

hello guys

anyone teamup for coding ?

[abstract ibex]

what if u had something like this bro

class NationBase:
  name: str
  economy: int
  military: int
  ...

class Nation(NationBase):
  pass

class NationSpec(NationBase):
  def roll() -> Nation;

usa_spec = NationSpec(
  name='United States of America',
  economy=4,
  military=4,
  ...
)

usa: Nation = usa_spec.roll()

(imo)

[ivory flicker]

seems that vscode and vscodium are two different things - is there a particular difference or I should be using vscodium?

[pallid garden]

vscode is popular in the industry because it's very easy to ssh into a private server instance to develop, while keeping the company code in a private instance

[pallid garden]

vscodium has no AI feature or microsoft spying on you

[pastel sluice]

vscodium is a fork that removes Microsoft's branding and telemetry, but you don't have to use it at first

[serene bridge]

..

[pastel sluice]

you can start with VS Code and gravitate out from there

[pallid garden]

it's a compiled binary of the same source code without the microsoft stuff

[gleaming knoll]

you're assuming that teaming up with random people without even seeing if you have shared interests is a good idea

[serene bridge]

uhm

[gleaming iron]

for me i just went with
spammer = either reckless or scammer

and u dont wanna code with either

[serene bridge]

brh

[pallid garden]

discord's automod is like rolling a die

[gleaming iron]

tru

[abstract ibex]

this is slut shaming 😔

[ancient sequoia]

has anyone manage to team up with someone online and get a nice project out of it ?

everytime i tried, we stopped at the 'fantasize' stage

[pallid garden]

OSS

it's uhhhhhhh a bit different from your average hobby project though

[ancient sequoia]

@pallid garden i mean with someone a bit random and starting from scratch (not contributing to something already rolling)

just curious

[pastel sluice]

I don't want to work with people I don't already know well

[pallid garden]

well they all start from somewhere

[ancient sequoia]

true

i was just curious if you guys had tricks to not get stuck early

[pastel sluice]

if I have an OSS project, and a regular stable of contributors prove themselves to be dependable and clued-in, then I might consider taking them on board more directly. but the idea of just hooking up at random with people and saying "let's make something" is likely to be as off-putting to them as it is to me.

[abstract ibex]

if she pair programs before the third date she's not ur wife bro she's for the streets

[pastel sluice]

we really don't need this kind of talk here

[abstract ibex]

completely agree

[steady rain]

so are you going to stop...?

[pallid garden]

i had a brilliant counter joke but i cant share it here... sad

[pastel sluice]

every project I've kept a sustained pace of development on has been something that I had a personal investment in, and where I managed the pace of my own work on it so that it balanced other things.

[abstract ibex]

i only said what others were insinuating (imo). personally i disagree with the sentiment wholeheartedly. i think openness to engaging in collaborative programming is an admirable trait

[dull dune]

you are mistaken

[ivory flicker]

okay so I guess I'll use vscodium. thanks - was deciding between that and pycharm.. now I also understand I should have some portfolio or get used to some other tools like git/github/jupyter/etc that kind of stuff - is there another industry standard here? I want to be comfortable using the same tools as industry

[dull dune]

why vscodium and not vs code?

[pastel sluice]

git is extremely common! start with that and GitHub

[dull dune]

because vs code is the industryy standard, as much as I might have some issue with taht

[abstract ibex]

no it's not

[ivory flicker]

Above they were saying it doesn't have the microsoft stuff

[dull dune]

ah! true, if that's important to you that's all good

[visual juniper]

it might not be standard but its very widely used , which is what they were trying to imply i think

[gleaming knoll]

for me to be open to collaboration i need to atleast know what im getting into
the only thing i know about this person is they're marked on discord as a spammer, they didn't tell what project they want to work on, i have no clue what kind of person they are to work with

[dull dune]

but bee aware you won't be able to use pylance, the most popular python LSP

[ivory flicker]

well I'm new so I don't know if it's important or not haha

[dull dune]

but there are some good altenrativse, pyrefly is new but has been prety good IME

[pallid garden]

ruff is a good lsp

[dull dune]

it only does type checkign and linting, right?

[pallid garden]

also pyrefly is a type checker

[dull dune]

does it also do definition lookup, etc?

[pallid garden]

yea

and...

[visual juniper]

i mean less spying is good
but like , i personally think we are getting spied on from everywhere so like 🤷

[abstract ibex]

me too but i wouldn't disqualify someone who is more outgoing than myself as "reckless"

[pallid garden]

it's blazingly fast 🔥🚀 because it's written in rust

~~ 20 ~~ 0 minutes without a rust mention

[dull dune]

^ that is true, it's hard to express how mcuh better the astral tools are in terms of sheer speed than what we had before

[idle fulcrum]

morning y'all

[ivory flicker]

spying in what sense? I thought a project of mine can be to pull info from my bank accounts - I don't want anyone knowing my personal stuff hehe

[pastel sluice]

most of the telemetry is pretty abstracted IIRC, but what people object to chiefly is the principle of the thing

[idle fulcrum]

info asking your personal info is stretch

[pallid garden]

more importantly is you dont get a trillion dollar company trying to sell you coding with autocomplete-on-steroid

[charred python]

The pylance extension doesn't load in vscodium?

[pallid garden]

you have to download the vsix in vscode and install it in vscodium

[gleaming knoll]

or become based

[pallid garden]

or become blazingly fast 🔥🚀

[idle fulcrum]

I can't complete it

[rugged star]

def looper():
    from folder_watcher import watch, already_ragified
    while True:
        global ragifying
        folders = watch("./DandD/")
        to_ragify_folders = [f for f in folders if not already_ragified(f)]
        ragified_folders = [f for f in folders if already_ragified(f)]
        if ragified_folders:
            for folder in ragified_folders:
                add_to_storage(folder.name, Status.RAGIFIED)
        for folder in to_ragify_folders:
            add_to_storage(folder.name, Status.RAGIFYING)
            Ragify(edition=folder.name).run()
            ragifying = True
        if ragifying:
            ragifying = False
        else:
            time.sleep(10)
```i feel like i could and should simplify this

[idle fulcrum]

not going to be very fast 🙁

[pallid garden]

or rawdog python with no LSP or type checker

the IDLE experience

[abstract ibex]

imo vscode is not an killer tool at all..?

[pallid garden]

it's not

[charred python]

Its just an editor with nothing special... Except LSPs. Which started with vscode.

[pallid garden]

it's just an industry standard for ssh-ing into a dev box

[abstract ibex]

that is one nice thing about python... itdoesn't lock u in IDE like java/c# where u are severely handicapped if u dont use the ordained slopware

[ancient sequoia]

thanks, and these were team projects or single person projects ?

[stray field]

Is pycharm's remote development still locked to a professional license?

[pallid garden]

idk actually

i have never used pycharm

[visual juniper]

no no nothing like that

i dont even know what microsoft sends as telemetry when i use vscode

[solemn venture]

yeah

[abstract ibex]

bro

[pallid garden]

telemetry can be innocuous things like "how many times do you open vscode" or errors, but it can also be intrusive things such as your keystrokes

[abstract ibex]

we have Live Share at home...

[stray field]

This is why microsoft is winning

[visual juniper]

altho the telemetry can be disabled in settings afaik , i remember doing smth like that

[pastel sluice]

single person, to be fair

(I have the VS Code telemetry turned off user-wide)

[ivory flicker]

now what about other things used in conjunction with the editor like notebooks, etc? I github the way to go?

[visual juniper]

yeah , if you turn it off, i dont really see any point in using codium tbh

[pallid garden]

there is

codium's logo is a lot cooler

[solemn venture]

tbf i think the extensibility of vscode (and the ease of developing extensions) is why they're winning

[ancient sequoia]

ok. behind my question, there's a curiosity about team dynamics. how to make projects / groups that are lively fun and creative

[pallid garden]

HUGE REASON btw

[abstract ibex]

$ ssh [e-mail]
$ tmux a -t collab

(imho)

[stray field]

So many extensions that haven't been updated in 8 years that kind of still work

[solemn venture]

tho there still is a big advantage to guaranteeing the user doesn't have to think about if they need to pay for a feature or not xd

[gleaming knoll]

you know whats cooler
removing the logo using custom css

[pallid garden]

?

[visual juniper]

can i make it a cat photo

[stray field]

You only have to worry about if a feature provided by a microsoft extension will work on your fork of vscode.

[gleaming knoll]

vscode and vscodium have the logo in the corner
i remove it using css

.window-appicon, .window-title, .titlebar-container {
    display: none;
}

in /opt/visual-studio-code/resources/app/out/vs/workbench/workbench.desktop.main.css

[visual juniper]

or better, a cat gif ?

[pallid garden]

i have native(xfce) titlebar turned on

[pastel sluice]

that's really a community curation question, and not so much a project question. how would you bring together a group of people for any common purpose to enjoy doing things? you'd start with a shared interest, but you'd want to also ensure everyone is mutually respectful, responsible (they show up consistently), etc. in other words it's not an easy issue. think of how hard it can be just to get a group of four friends to decide where to go to eat on a night out!

[visual juniper]

does this need to be changed back when it updates

[gleaming knoll]

the way i did it - putting it into the vscode files itself: yeah
all the custom css extensions suck (are not stable) thats why i decided to do that instead of using them

my update command does it

[ancient sequoia]

yeah, and maybe seasoned people too, those who've seen how project go stale for stupid reasons

[pastel sluice]

well, sure. but I do feel the main thing is to gather and maintain a group of people who have mutual respect and interest, and to keep that group curated. you have to be willing to drop people who are talented but difficult, because that just means everyone else's talents (and tolerances) are getting shortchanged.

[ivory flicker]

yeah I just wanted to practice version control, etc.. not that anyone would be collaborating with me, but just getting familiar with the steps/processes/etc because on the job you would

[ancient sequoia]

agreed

[pastel sluice]

you don't need a huge project to practice that - anything where there's some kind of incremental improvement or new features will do nicely.

[ancient sequoia]

@ivory flicker in case you never saw them, there are few websites to simulate the usual git operations and get the basics mastered

[abstract ibex]

there is something beautiful about

he/him
and
i dont believe in pronouns
discussing mutual respect and shared interests in software communities 😭

[gleaming knoll]

https://learngitbranching.js.org/ mentioned

[rugged star]

is there a way to instantly write a TextIOWrapper or do i have to do file.write()

[dry yacht]

For practice you should try to create a few pull requests, as that's basically the main way to get new code into a project. A pull request is basically a "combination of commits" that you want the project maintainer to pull (usually into the main (or master) branch, where the actual code that's being used for production builds resides).

[gleaming knoll]

what
how would you write without writing

[ancient sequoia]

that's disrespectful for my disbelief

'/s just in case

[abstract ibex]

it's not that they don't want to write, they just want to do it instantly

i think they are asking if something like file.instant_write() exists

[dry yacht]

Easy. You just buy a hard drive where someone else has already written that file's content for you

[rugged star]

sorry maybe i shouldve given more content with gradio i get demo = gr.Interface(fn=process_file, inputs="file", outputs="text") which gives a path i want to get that file into ./x/y/z cant i use like fs cp instead of open(new_path).write(open(given_path).read())

[dry yacht]

So, you already have the file but just want to move it?

[rugged star]

yes since gradio put it in the /tmp folder

/tmp/gradio/74b40ed4803bf1bfe5e53b994290f2c109edf80654bfdeb3e5f5332daeabfab1/5esrd.md

as an example

[dry yacht]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8858008/how-do-i-move-a-file-in-python?rq=2

[abstract ibex]

demo.copy('./x/y/z')

imho

[dry yacht]

os.rename(), os.replace(), or shutil.move()

[abstract ibex]

outdated imo

[rugged star]

aah shutil

[abstract ibex]

the modern way is Path

[ancient sequoia]

pathlib is sweet

[abstract ibex]

Path('/tmp/gradio/hash/5esrd.md').copy_into('./out_dir')

new in 3.14

[mossy sigil]

Hi

[rugged star]

im using python 3.10

[abstract ibex]

use 3.14 imo

[dry yacht]

But this performs a copy, not a move, no?

[rugged star]

can't

[abstract ibex]

who cares ? but yea there is move. and move_into as well imo

[dry yacht]

Well. OP obviously cares because that was the crux of his entire question.
Moving a file without needing to copy it

[rugged star]

def process_file(file):
    filepath = pathlib.Path(file.name)
    shutil.move(filepath, pathlib.Path("./test/") / "testfile.md")
    return True
```did it like this, where ./test/ and test_file.md will be changed ty @dry yacht for reminding me abt shutil

[dry yacht]

Also I have no clue what that "in my opinion" does there. There is Path.move and Path.move_into, yeah. That's not an opinion though

[dry yacht]

If it works it works, yeah, but since you're already using a pathlib.Path, you might as well just use the Path.move or Path.move_into functions

[abstract ibex]

3.10 has .hardlink_to('./test/testfile.md')

[rugged star]

Path.move or Path.move_into is 3.14 im on 3.10

[dry yacht]

Oh, I didn't check the versions and didn't understand the "use 3.14 imo" (#python-discussion message) because that sounded like a suggestion due to the "in my opinion".

[rugged star]

but anyways it works so case closed :D

[dry yacht]

👍

[pallid garden]

every time i see move i think of move semantics

[kind elm]

guys why my code won't work

compudtinth-term n;
iffsect := set( = set n)
current :f / n^ add l)
(factles := fir=^2_(ad 0)
cprodtect: if feir rand^(* 2);
cproduct := for == n" _*) 1;
current = f(nt "n lb;
cartet = prrent - facd))
curtet = current * / and);
retult = prrent - factor;
citett current:;_producct; +- walelt;
( result; )

[pallid garden]

this doesnt look like python?

[kind elm]

exactly..

[untold mortar]

this is not py

[kind elm]

i imagine a language where that code would be correct

hmm

[untold mortar]

lol, what language did u write that in

[kind elm]

none..

i mean out of existing ones

someday, someone will find this code snippet and make a language for it

[untold mortar]

llol

[charred python]

No they won't

[kind elm]

given enough time.. they will

[abstract ibex]

based

[grizzled solar]

If u won't make it, then no one else will

[kind elm]

given enough time.. as there will be nothing else they can possibly do

[grizzled solar]

Nope

It is more likely that we reach the heat death of the universe

[kind elm]

it will never happen

[grizzled solar]

👍

[pallid garden]

space is infinite, and so somewhere in the universe, vacuum fluctuation has caused a pc to appear instantaneous in space containing a compiler that will successfully your code

right now

boltzmann-infinitecat compiler

[grizzled solar]

Isn't it bold to assume space is infinite?

[charred python]

It's at least 75% infinite.

[pallid garden]

if it's not, whatever contains it must be, and if that is not infinite...

[onyx python]

[kind elm]

it is unlimited.. i'm unsure about infinite tho

[onyx python]

Infinite or finite
One of the unanswered questions about the universe is whether it is infinite or finite in extent. For intuition, it can be understood that a finite universe has a finite volume that, for example, could be in theory filled with a finite amount of material, while an infinite universe is unbounded and no numerical volume could possibly fill it. Mathematically, the question of whether the universe is infinite or finite is referred to as boundedness. An infinite universe (unbounded metric space) means that there are points arbitrarily far apart: for any distance d, there are points that are of a distance at least d apart. A finite universe is a bounded metric space, where there is some distance d such that all points are within distance d of each other. The smallest such d is called the diameter of the universe, in which case the universe has a well-defined "volume" or "scale".

-# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_universe

I do know the storage space on my harddrives is, unfortunately, very finite :C

[kind elm]

uh.. why am i restricted off the reactions

[tropic temple]

Reactions are hard to moderate so we restrict reacting in #python-discussion to staff

[kind elm]

Uh... Moderating reactions.. what are staff even on

who exactly needs reactions to be moderated

i don't like this logic, but most discord servers allow reactions

[tropic temple]

people can write all sortsa stuff with emojis :p most rules have history behind them

[grave tree]

We had a lot of incidents where people would abuse reactions and break rules via reactions

[kind elm]

then punish them

[grave tree]

Other channels in this server have reactions turned on

[kind elm]

then these angry rulebreakers will go break the rules by reacting in there

[grave tree]

We did, but it's also difficult to moderate. There's not a log of reactions added to old messages and it can be very computationally and request expensive to have a bot track it

[grave tree]

We find they normally don't. Trolls don't have that much energy

This is a busy channel so we like to make it not difficult to moderate this channel

[kind elm]

so what.. you look like control freaks.. why want to catch every reaction in existence.. let peoples be.. they are not robots

[kind elm]

Uh.. no it's not

it's busy because i'm yapping in here

[robust ledge]

Welcome to the server.

[grave tree]

I'm not sure why you're having such a strong reaction to having reactions off in a single channel. But we won't be changing how we operate because of your particular feedback since it seems to be mostly motivated on charged emotions.

[tropic temple]

it's basically just in this channel why are you making this out like a whole thing 😭

[kind elm]

well this server is not dead but it's not active enough for that to be real

[kind elm]

because it's nonsensical and has absurd goals

[grave tree]

We have found it to be effective and you just joined so....

[kind elm]

if somebody reacts with wrong reactions on ancient messages.. Who gets hurt from that

[grave tree]

the person that gets notified about the reaction

[opal shale]

i made my first pygame. game

[pastel sluice]

we don't like reaction spam in a very heavily trafficked channel

[steady rain]

@kind elm I don't think we're going to agree on this. can we just talk about python?

[robust ledge]

Nice! What type of game?

[kind elm]

what??

[grave tree]

discord notifies people about reactions to their messages

[opal shale]

its a simple game where you collect coins nothing special

[kind elm]

only if it's gc or a private server with wrong settings

[robust ledge]

Heh, even a simple game is pretty cool when you haven't made one before.

[grave tree]

that is not true

[kind elm]

where peopels get pinged for each messages sent

[opal shale]

yeah

[kind elm]

it would make sense if you'd only restrict it to low level people

[grave tree]

do you have anything python related you want to discuss?

[icy apex]

I’ve done one of those actually it was quite easy and didn’t take a lot of time

What could I do to further progress in my programming skills?

[onyx python]

have you done the advent of code thing?

[steady rain]

just keep making stuff that encorporates stuff you haven't already used.

[icy apex]

No what is that

[onyx python]

https://www.adventofcode.com

theyre not super easy though 😅 I just gave up on part 2 of day 2 lol

[icy apex]

Yeah I’m quite a beginner

[kind elm]

get experience

if you have a lot of experience in something it means you went further

[robust ledge]

The trick is to keep programming. Just build things that interest you. Silly things, tricky things. Anything that you don't already know how to build will improve your skills.

[kind elm]

for example you can try to make an encryption algorithm

or a hash function, it's far more simple

[charred python]

Or a compiler for InfiniteCat's horrible programming language.

[untold mortar]

accurate

[dry yacht]

err... I would disagree with the hash function part.
Sure, you can relatively easily develop a hash function, but odds are like 99.99999% that it'll be a (very) bad hash function.

As for the encryption algorithm:
I 100% agree that implementing one is very good practice, but developing a secure encryption algorithm requires knowing "advanced" (i.e. above school level) math

[kind elm]

doesn't have to be a secure one

Hash is far simpler because you can put anything and you don't have to care if it will be reversable or no

but yeah encryption requires advanced knowledge

here is a random prime number 8709234423033500272170260657444400773

almost 10**37

[dry yacht]

If it's not secure then it's not an encryption algorithm.
Something similar, basically the same, which I believe would be far more suitable, also for learning how to think like a programmer, is a compression algorithm.
I think a compression algorithm would be much better than the hash function (for reasons I explained), and better than the encryption algorithm because you can actually develop it on your own with relatively little previous knowledge and it provides so many more layers to go from simple to harder things, like e.g. you could start with purely text-compression, i.e. techniques you could use to shorten sentences/words on paper, but later go on to encrypting things as individual bits.

[kind elm]

yeah

i still think hash algorithm is simple

[dry yacht]

It's a little obscure without having somewhat of an understanding what hashes really are and where and how they're used

[kind elm]

a control sum

you take an input of large length and produce a semi-unique fixed-size output for it

[dry yacht]

Yeah, but that doesn't really tell a beginner anything.
For me hashes/control sums only really started to make sense after I've seen a few real world uses for them

[kind elm]

the most important use is whe nyou send a data you append its hash to it, so if a single bit was corrupted during transferring, it's easy to see

[bleak moth]

I worked for one company that stored a hash of the exe in the database, and the program started by hashing its own exe, and then comparing it to the hash value. If they matched, the program started, if they didn't, the system restarted into a maintenance mode.

[charred python]

yea, a bad hash and a good hash both look like random output. It's not a good task for being able to visualize your work.

[kind elm]

that's nice

[bleak moth]

That was an interesting use case.

[kind elm]

if it looks like random output then it already can be used for some things